00:00:09 -!- gensym` [~user@189.62.37.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:00:14 my apologies :) 00:00:28 wow, shared-initialize has 28 args 00:00:36 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.212.201.14] has joined #lisp 00:00:41 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:00:44 Does anyone know what ECL_CMU_FORMAT refers to? 00:00:44 27. whatever 00:00:51 bhyde, my hack was cooler though 00:00:54 ;-) 00:01:43 the other high arity standard definition i can think of is ensure-generic-function 00:01:48 drmeister: somethin gto do with CMUCL? 00:02:33 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:02:46 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:55 by virtue of my 1st to market advantage i have built an vast market share. Sorry, you don't stand a chance. network effect! 00:03:09 :D 00:05:32 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:06:13 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-38-181.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:10:53 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc07-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:40 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:12:37 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 00:15:36 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-38-181.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:21 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:02 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Rated M for MANLY] 00:17:21 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:07 -!- echo-area [~user@114.254.100.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:19:26 ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:18 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 00:26:07 -!- ejbs [~user@h-30-249.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:27:08 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:03 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:29:42 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 00:32:49 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:33:25 Bike: well  then there is &allow-other-keys and &rest (ccl:arglist 'ensure-generic-function) -> (ccl:function-name &rest ccl::keys &key &allow-other-keys) 00:34:47 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:35:26 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:31 DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@120.158.229.36] has joined #lisp 00:36:11 -!- Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 00:36:22 pierre1 [~pierre1@186.205.149.74] has joined #lisp 00:36:49 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.113.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:39:32 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:48 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:44:08 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:12 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:44:17 bhyde, my brilliant solution of course took care of that 00:44:25 unlike *somebody's* 00:44:46 Quadrescence: So are there implementations with notably slow string-streams? 00:45:10 I would be interested in charts & analysis (as long as someone else does it) 00:45:16 Quadrescence: i'd fix mine but my vast installed base is now arguing that they need backward compatiblity 00:45:45 Xach, My implementation uses half the memory and doubles the speed with certain declared types. But I need to find a way to balance convenience of using any type with the speed. 00:45:57 (for sbcl) 00:46:07 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:46:14 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-81-52.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:22 Xach, As it stands now, what I have -- using SIMPLE-STRING -- leads to 1.5-2x in time for large strings 00:46:27 Quadrescence: for what kind of tests? 00:46:36 How did you measure? 00:46:45 Xach, generating 50,000 random strings between 10 and 100 characters, and concatenating them 00:46:52 the generation is of course not included 00:47:18 *Xach* would be interested in seeing the code 00:47:26 Xach, http://paste.lisp.org/display/137502 00:47:33 beware, it was just a perf hack I wrote 00:48:00 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:11 rme [~rme@50.43.134.220] has joined #lisp 00:51:11 Might help to set *print-pretty* to nil when comparing. 00:51:35 why? 00:51:54 Because it makes princ faster. 00:53:49 write-string is also quite a bit faster than princ. 00:55:19 ckoch786_ [~quassel@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:55:47 Xach, by using SIMPLE-STRING for me, the perf is 2x time and memory, but using (SIMPLE-ARRAY CHARACTER (*)), mine matches or beats it. 00:56:28 matches or beats in time, and almost unanimously beats in memory 00:56:56 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:57 Why did you make this library? 00:57:26 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 00:57:44 Xach, to encapsulate the common pattern i keep writing where I collect a lot of strings (e.g., the lines of a file), and either end up concatenating them all, or do some other operations on it (especially things like lexical analysis) 00:58:18 Quadrescence: I havent looked, but is it something like a rope? 00:58:42 sellout-, no, a lot less sophisticated 00:59:17 -!- _8david` [~user@eth1-2.bob.askja.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:21 sellout-, but it intends to have the same sort of benefits as a rope. (not precisely the same) 00:59:59 I got hunchentoot running :D 01:02:17 sellout-, it does a few cleverish things to allow for fast indexing and junk like that 01:02:39 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.212.201.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:53 -!- DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@120.158.229.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:02:54 i'm sure the data structure has a name, but I'm not sure what it is. i just sort of made it up as i went along 01:07:04 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.212.201.14] has joined #lisp 01:07:19 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.62.60] has joined #lisp 01:08:53 guther [guther@shell.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:24 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:08 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Quit: going home] 01:14:09 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:18:40 -!- gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-153-155.public.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:56 gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-153-155.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:37 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:20:19 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:20:57 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-81-52.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:21:14 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-81-52.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:37 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 01:23:30 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:24:27 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:43 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:14 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:33 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 01:27:16 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Client Quit] 01:37:26 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 01:39:07 -!- Framedragger [~k@unaffiliated/framedragger] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:40:04 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-149-108.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:54 nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-119-136.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:45 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.161.227] has joined #lisp 01:44:19 -!- nug700 [~nug700@184-98-121-162.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:44:23 -!- seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:45:09 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@61.14.130.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:49:45 nug700 [~nug700@174-19-128-17.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:16 normanrichards [~normanric@201.237.201.118] has joined #lisp 01:51:41 robgssp`` [~user@cpe-24-93-28-218.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:51:45 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-149-108.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:52:46 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-119-136.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:53:17 -!- robgssp` [~user@cpe-24-93-28-218.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:53:58 nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-119-181.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:28 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-19-128-17.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:00:06 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 02:00:16 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:01:49 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@61.14.130.226] has joined #lisp 02:02:34 stardiviner [~quassel@218.74.180.49] has joined #lisp 02:05:05 i've heard rumors that Quadrescence will soon be adding support for m4 diversions 02:06:19 bhyde, I already have something close enough to that! 02:06:42 (not really but kind of!) 02:07:09 leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has joined #lisp 02:08:18 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@95.178.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 02:08:57 -!- weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:31 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:45 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.134.220] has left #lisp 02:10:11 it's something that comes up a lot if your building code or web pages, you want to make one pass and accumulate fragments for the header, body, footer, etc and then ship 'em using writev 02:10:59 edgar-rfx [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 02:11:19 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:11:20 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:11:46 i've a macro around here for something similar in use in hairy defmacros (with-assembly-points (bindings decls body) `(let ,bindings ,@decls ,@body)  (add-to-assembly-point 'decls ) ) 02:12:09 bhyde, let me show you something 02:12:25 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 02:12:27 bhyde, https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/dynamic-collect 02:13:19 bhyde, draft of the associated paper: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/734346/dynamic-collect-draft.pdf 02:14:35 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:19:15 cory_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:19:18 analogous, yes neat 02:20:29 my with-assembly thang is dynamic extent too; since the assemblies usually involve walking largish data strctures in service of making C code and such 02:23:24 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:47 bhyde, i don't totally understand your with-asm thing from your description 02:28:26 it's really extremely simple. (with-asm &body fill in the names)  then in the body you can call (add-to foo) and that's pretty much it. 02:28:37 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:04 i've never used it outside of a job, so I don't have a version for which I own the copyright :(  i must of write the damn thing a half dozen times 02:30:27 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.62.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:32:01 bhyde, where can ADD-TO be called? 02:32:33 is ADD-TO a function? 02:33:20 yes, (add-to ) can be called in the dynamic extent of a with-asm that has in it's list 02:34:07 bhyde, how does your implementation look? how does it know where to add the data? 02:34:47 there is a stack of assemblers, each assembler has a hash table keyed with the names to assemble into 02:35:13 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:57 bhyde, but how does ADD-TO know what or where that table or stack is? 02:36:22 *assembly-stack* 02:36:57 is that a DEFVAR/PARAMETER? 02:36:58 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:15 senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:55 (defun add-to (pt form) (loop for assembly in *assembly-stack* as accum = (gethash pt assembly) when assum do (return (push form (gethash pt assembly)) finally (error "Point not found" pt)) 02:38:59 or something like that 02:39:08 (defvar *assembly-stack* nil) 02:42:40 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:43:54 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:31 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:23 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:49:56 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.161.227] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:54:51 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 02:55:01 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56:01 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:58:16 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 03:02:59 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 03:05:43 -!- kimochiwarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:08:01 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.101.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:08:36 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 03:13:52 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:16:37 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-197-102.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:17:33 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 03:17:41 Quadrescence: why do you use the condition system instead of dynamic variables, and maybe a generic function protocol? 03:18:00 gavilan2 [~Gavilan2@184.75.213.226] has joined #lisp 03:18:36 pkhuong, so i can have more control over the control 03:18:47 (collect 'some-value :continue nil) 03:19:22 and it'll pass control back up to wherever your with-dynamic-collect is and return finally what you've collected 03:19:59 you can do that with a dynamic variable. 03:20:16 do you mean with a continuation? 03:20:18 AFAICT, you're abusing the condition system to bind functions to dynamic variables. 03:20:32 do you only use setq for resetting a variable that has already been defined? 03:20:47 -!- gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-153-155.public.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:20:48 tyrick: no, I only use setf. 03:21:01 gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-153-155.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:18 why do I get "; caught WARNING:; undefined variable: W" when I do (setq w 3) 03:21:29 well, did you define the variable first? 03:21:44 I quess not 03:21:48 there you go then. 03:21:52 lol 03:22:03 none of my examples show this being done 03:22:11 they code simple starts from setq 03:22:11 How old are your examples? 03:22:20 http://psg.com/~dlamkins/sl/chapter03-03.html 03:22:22 That used to have different behavior. ("used to" meaning "decades ago") 03:22:23 not sure 03:22:36 Yeah, that's old. 03:22:43 dammit 03:22:55 do how do you define a variable outside of defvar 03:23:07 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.149.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:23:09 You can't define lexical variables outside of a scope. 03:23:16 interesting 03:23:23 do there is only defvar and let? 03:23:27 so* 03:23:43 Um, "only" how? Those do different things. 03:23:43 and setf 03:23:56 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.106.173] has joined #lisp 03:24:33 Just wondering the various ways to define a variable , lexically and dynamically 03:24:44 setq is now crossed off my list 03:24:53 I only know of let, defvar, and setf 03:26:08 and I still get a undefined variable warning if I do (setf x 3) 03:26:24 (setf x 3) will macroexpand into (setq x 3). 03:26:35 setf doesn't "define" anything. 03:26:41 so what does pkhoung mean? 03:26:46 he only uses setf? 03:26:57 He just means that he doesn't use setq in any circumstance. 03:27:08 ahh, I think my question wasn't clear 03:27:47 Okay, please tell me there is another way to define a variable outside of defvar 03:28:03 there is DEFPARMETER. Hard to reproduce that one with only DEFVAR and LET 03:28:21 is defparmeter a special variable? 03:28:36 defparameter is a macro that defines a variable as special, and also sets it 03:28:40 tychoish: I mean DEFPARAMETER. 03:28:41 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:28:47 it's very similar to defvar 03:28:57 Yeah, you can do the same thing with DEFVAR and SETQ 03:29:07 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:15 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Client Quit] 03:29:34 .... I thought a special var will have dynamic scope inside LET 03:29:50 what do you mean? 03:29:54 tyrick: it will 03:30:13 .... so how do a define a var that is not special 03:30:24 tyrick: You can also do stuff like (let ((x ...)) (declare (special x)) ...) 03:30:26 you can't, globally 03:30:30 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:30:33 ahhhh 03:30:36 you can bind lexical variables with let and friends 03:30:52 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:55 I have been reading a lot of old lisp 03:30:56 Bike: LET can bind dynamically as well, if you declare special 03:30:58 smh 03:31:47 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@201.237.201.118] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 03:34:02 right 03:34:20 for some reason I thought you could have a global variable bind lexically 03:34:31 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 03:34:57 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:35:07 which seems to have been the case when (setq x 0) worked to define a variable and wasn't special? 03:35:15 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:35 Instead of setq you'd probably want (setf (symbol-value 'x) 0) 03:35:53 tyrick: that's impl-dependent but probably made x special. 03:36:08 Which doesn't define any variable, but does affect the storage that would be associated with a global or special. 03:37:09 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:37:58 because if though I get a warning 03:38:01 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:04 (setq x 3) is still set 03:38:06 -!- [1]JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 03:38:16 and (print x) gives 3 03:38:17 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 03:38:21 yeah, that's something your implementation is doing nonstandardly, but conveniently. 03:38:27 and (let ((x 0)) (print x)) returns 0 03:38:34 nice... I see 03:38:38 I am using sbcl 03:38:47 and clisp 03:38:51 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 03:39:06 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:53 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-3096455843.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:41:45 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:52:02 alpha123 [~peter@184-99-236-121.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:12 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 03:53:22 -!- ckoch786_ [~quassel@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:53:23 -!- pierpa`` [~user@host126-61-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:53:42 -!- cory_ [~cory@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:54:22 antgreen [~green@64.56.254.79] has joined #lisp 03:54:26 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.161.227] has joined #lisp 03:54:41 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:55:06 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172.15.249.133] has joined #lisp 03:55:09 fenton1 [~fenton@ppp-124-121-21-112.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 03:57:45 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-192-132-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 04:04:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.64.236] has joined #lisp 04:04:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.64.236] has quit [Changing host] 04:04:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:10:35 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:21 -!- svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:13:35 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.106.173] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:14:06 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:14:36 teggi [~teggi@123.20.103.158] has joined #lisp 04:19:06 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:19:31 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-136-120.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 04:19:40 -!- fourOfTwelve [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:20:20 -!- gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-153-155.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:21:39 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:26:02 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 04:27:14 -!- alpha123 is now known as alpha123-away 04:29:01 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:21 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:32:29 tyrick: you can approximate a global lexical binding using symbol macros. 04:33:37 tyrick: some people implement that as a "deflex" macro 04:35:34 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 04:35:43 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Quit: Talk is cheap because the supply exceeds the demand.] 04:37:04 zacts [~blueberry@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 04:38:44 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:39:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 275 seconds] 04:45:00 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:46:25 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-149-108.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:46:49 -!- alpha123-away is now known as alpha123 04:48:16 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:49:00 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dcooper8] 04:49:42 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 04:53:36 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 04:54:15 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-93-133.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 04:58:29 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.57.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:01:12 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:01:20 bmathson [~bmathson@c-71-193-24-118.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:21 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:04:03 argyi [~user@134-208-2-206.ndhu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 05:05:37 sdemarre [~serge@69.94-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 05:07:15 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-192-132-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:07:35 sauerkrause [~krause@cpe-70-116-18-19.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:09:15 -!- bmathson [~bmathson@c-71-193-24-118.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:09:37 bmathson [~bmathson@c-71-193-24-118.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:33 -!- ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12:07 -!- alpha123 [~peter@184-99-236-121.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:12:43 p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has joined #lisp 05:19:25 Vivitron, symbol macros? like (symbol-value 'x)? 05:22:12 See define-symbol-macro 05:22:16 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:23:37 -!- sdemarre [~serge@69.94-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:24:06 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:43 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:26:24 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.42.217] has joined #lisp 05:26:38 Zhivago, thanks! perfect 05:31:05 p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has joined #lisp 05:33:06 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has quit [Client Quit] 05:33:44 mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 05:33:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 05:33:44 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:37:09 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:37:56 Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has joined #lisp 05:39:03 hajovonta [vebsl@62.212.72.240] has joined #lisp 05:39:13 hello 05:40:38 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:06 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 05:44:51 -!- fenton1 [~fenton@ppp-124-121-21-112.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:46:27 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:46:55 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 05:49:32 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 05:50:04 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 05:52:15 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:54:34 hajovonta: hi 05:54:34 hitecnologys, memo from lmj`: you only need to do one of those; either set *debug-tasks-p* globally to nil or control it locally with (task-handler-bind ((error #'invoke-transfer-error)) ...) 05:56:26 minion: leave memo for lmj`: I've already figured it out but thanks anyway 05:56:26 what is ``it''? 05:56:36 Ah. 05:58:17 minion: memo for lmj`: I've already figured it out but thanks anyway 05:58:17 Remembered. I'll tell lmj` when he/she/it next speaks. 05:59:20 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:59:52 :) 06:01:32 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 06:02:23 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 06:02:39 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: so it goes] 06:02:51 -!- bmathson [~bmathson@c-71-193-24-118.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:03:43 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-119-181.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:04:06 nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-119-181.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:34 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:07:49 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 06:09:54 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.170.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 06:14:15 ASau` [~user@p5797EDA1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 06:15:21 -!- ASau [~user@p5797E28E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:16:02 agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:29 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.61.244] has joined #lisp 06:25:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.61.244] has quit [Changing host] 06:25:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:26:03 -!- Ue is now known as Ue` 06:27:35 -!- meiji11 [~user@75.158.41.148] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:31:37 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:31:55 hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has joined #lisp 06:31:55 -!- hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has quit [Changing host] 06:31:55 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:32:33 -!- felideon [~felideon@199.241.28.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:33:57 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:34:39 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-eqicthodxytiiueh] has joined #lisp 06:35:29 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 06:38:25 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:39:03 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 06:39:26 -!- cibs [~cibs@60-251-40-253.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:39:40 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 06:40:39 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 06:41:09 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:41:18 felideon [~felideon@199.241.28.84] has joined #lisp 06:43:02 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 06:46:51 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.161.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:49:49 benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-102-245.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 06:51:20 -!- dfox [~dfox@178.248.252.198] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:54:49 MrWoohoo2 [~MrWoohoo@pool-108-38-175-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:55 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:57:26 ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 06:58:24 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-161-158.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:59:21 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 07:00:21 p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has joined #lisp 07:01:48 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.212.201.14] has left #lisp 07:04:09 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has quit [Client Quit] 07:04:37 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.7.169] has joined #lisp 07:05:22 ck [~ck@dslb-094-219-237-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:22 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-eqicthodxytiiueh] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:08:52 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-199-75.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 07:09:20 -!- ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:09:31 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.7.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:09:51 -!- pierre1 [~pierre1@186.205.149.74] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:10:24 karol` [~user@dial-95-105-234-90.orange.sk] has joined #lisp 07:10:40 -!- karol` [~user@dial-95-105-234-90.orange.sk] has quit [Client Quit] 07:13:27 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-102-245.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 07:13:52 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 07:19:08 bitonic [~user@2.125.98.244] has joined #lisp 07:19:31 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 07:21:18 -!- aerique_ is now known as aerique 07:21:25 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:21:49 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 07:24:55 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:25:13 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 07:27:32 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:33 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:29:28 -!- wizard` [~user@eth900.qld.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:32:23 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:33:23 zorkmoid [c2ed8e14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.20] has joined #lisp 07:33:30 ;Good morning. 07:37:17 -!- Ue` is now known as Ue 07:37:31 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:37:41 -!- tyrick [~tyrick@c-50-143-173-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:38:22 jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:39:07 -!- ianmcorvidae is now known as musicbrainz 07:39:47 -!- musicbrainz is now known as ianmcorvidae 07:41:03 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #lisp 07:43:27 musicbrainz [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:16 -!- musicbrainz [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:44:16 musicbrainz [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/bot/mb-chat-logger] has joined #lisp 07:44:53 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:46:23 -!- p_nathan1 [~vlion@98.145.133.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:46:30 -!- musicbrainz [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/bot/mb-chat-logger] has quit [Client Quit] 07:48:04 musicbrainz [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/bot/mb-chat-logger] has joined #lisp 07:48:59 -!- musicbrainz [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/bot/mb-chat-logger] has left #lisp 07:53:41 -!- s0ber_ [~s0ber@1-164-212-249.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:53:59 s0ber [~s0ber@1-164-212-249.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:30 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:57:07 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@61.14.130.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:58:06 -!- ferada_ is now known as ferada 07:58:44 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:58:48 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:00:01 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-136-120.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:01:04 p_nathan [~vlion@98.145.133.23] has joined #lisp 08:04:42 pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 08:05:52 hello: this is my latest tryial: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137492#8 ... but I'm not sure if the union! and intersection! function are "well written" because of I've used listp... any suggestion? thx 08:07:29 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.212.201.14] has joined #lisp 08:07:42 pnpuff: use WHEN instead of IF for single-branch conditionals. 08:08:09 pnpuff: empty? could be defined as (defun empty? (obj) (atom obj)) 08:08:30 pnpuff: Normally, CL style prefers -p for predicates, not a question mark ... 08:09:10 pnpuff: the three or whatever level conditional in member? can be replaced with COND. 08:12:23 Do you intend to support dotted lists? 08:12:36 And if so, what kind of set does (A . B) represent? 08:13:03 Oh, and there is already a bunch of set operations in CL >/( 08:13:04 :-) 08:14:04 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@61.14.130.226] has joined #lisp 08:14:05 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-199-75.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:31 anyway I'm not sure of (and (listp S) (empty? S))... because maybe is equal to (and (not (atom S)) (atom S)) ... :( 08:15:18 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 08:15:40 noo.. wrong 08:18:27 pnpuff: perhaps (and (listp s) (endp s)) ? 08:18:30 So, what kind of set does (A . B) represent? 08:18:55 pnpuff: that's actually eqyuvalent to (null s). 08:23:01 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754cd5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:32 oh... wow 08:23:56 miql_ [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:24 ..but the ard task now is define thhe equality between sets... 08:25:42 I have maybe to use the bijection concept... 08:25:50 galiley [~user@lo101.ar1.sof2.evolink.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:43 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:27:53 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:50 fenton1 [~fenton@ppp-124-121-21-112.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 08:30:31 Zhivago: right: (union! '(1 . nil) '( 1 2 3 ( 1 . 2))) is still not supported! :( 08:32:55 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:37:43 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:44:42 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.212.201.14] has left #lisp 08:45:55 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:51:40 http://www.pvk.ca/Blog/2013/06/05/fresh-in-sbcl-1-dot-1-8-sse-intrinsics/ <-- interesting.. 08:53:55 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.57.78] has joined #lisp 08:54:12 [6502] [b0cec47a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.176.206.196.122] has joined #lisp 08:57:23 <[6502]> hello. I've been asked about writing a binding of a C++ class library for Common Lisp (not sure which implementation). The library is small and it should be a trivial job for someone that did it in the past. If anyone experienced is interested for the details to be able to give a quote just message me. 08:57:59 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:58:39 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-119-181.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:01:01 -!- Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:03:13 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-136-120.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:06:46 why (union '(1 .nil) '( 1 2 (3 . 3))) => (.NIL 1 2 (3 . 3)) and not (1 2 (3 . 3)) ? thx 09:07:17 I mean what is the meaning of (.NIL ... ? 09:07:28 it's a symbol 09:07:52 you yourself put it there, why are you asking? 09:09:02 you mean '. nil' ? 09:09:38 '(1 . nil) is a quaint way to write '(1) 09:10:00 but .nil is a symbol (not that there should be a space between them) 09:10:06 or a newline, alternatively 09:10:14 s/not/note/ 09:10:18 so why (union! '(1 . nil) '( 1 2 (3 . nil))) => (1 2 (3)) and not (.nil 1 2 (3)) ? :) 09:10:39 are you serious? 09:10:43 yes 09:11:19 what are you using to learn lisp? 09:11:23 i do not understand the difference ... 09:12:22 I know that '( 1 .nil) is maybe a proper list ... 09:12:55 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:12:57 pnpuff: no, it is a normal list. 09:13:07 pnpuff: what font are you using? 09:13:11 pnpuff: you need a *space* after the period 09:13:37 maybe you have bad kerning 09:15:08 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:16:11 :) 09:16:44 stassats: actually I'm not using anithing but I've added to the bookmark the book you suggested me yesterday 09:17:00 what is that? 09:17:02 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:17:08 which book ? 09:17:17 you're terrorizing #lisp, while refusing to read a book? 09:17:21 hajovonta: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 09:17:22 minion: please tell hajovonta about gentle 09:17:22 hajovonta: please look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 09:17:46 ah i already know that 09:18:16 i was just curious if there is a book which i haven't found yet 09:19:56 stassats: I've need of #lisp to define the equality of two sets! ... I'm thinking about it but I've not found none solution at the moment... :( Any suggestion? 09:20:14 hajovonta: paip, pcl, amop, lol(1), lol(2), onlisp, clos/keene 09:20:21 1) learn lisp 2) write code 3) ... 4) enlightenment 09:20:22 *I've found no one solution... 09:20:33 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@10.Red-79-155-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:21:31 abeaumont [~abeaumont@10.Red-79-155-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:10 pnpuff: the difference between (1 . nil) and (1 .nil) is the same difference as between (* n *) and (*n*). 09:22:27 antoszka: thanks, some of them i've already read 09:22:40 please point me to some urls :) 09:23:06 hajovonta: google.com 09:23:18 pnpuff: ie. it's what's explained in the first chapter of any tutorial or lisp book. 09:28:13 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:41 hagish [~hagish@host-88-217-174-111.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 09:29:09 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:29:52 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 09:30:29 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@10.Red-79-155-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 09:30:56 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:32:57 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:38:58 abeaumont [~abeaumont@10.Red-79-155-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:23 -!- bitonic [~user@2.125.98.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:39:31 hajovonta: check out the lisp books and resources down the right side here http://www.reddit.com/r/lisp 09:40:07 thanks 09:40:48 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:00 that's pretty cool 09:42:22 ok, ogamita and stassats thanks for the explanation 09:43:02 was a my mistyping ... 09:45:53 DerGuteMoritz [~syn@saturn.lileth.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:22 hello lispers, check out http://quasiconf.twoticketsplease.de/ if you are looking for lispy activities this summer :-) 09:50:22 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:50:43 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 09:50:56 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:47 s0ber_ [~s0ber@1-164-212-249.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:52 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@1-164-212-249.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:51:57 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 09:52:14 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:54:31 -!- fenton1 [~fenton@ppp-124-121-21-112.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:55:02 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 09:55:19 turbopape [29e629f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.230.41.246] has joined #lisp 09:58:47 <[6502]> hello. I've been asked about writing a binding of a C++ class library for Common Lisp (not sure which implementation). The library is small and it should be a trivial job for someone that did it in the past. If anyone experienced is interested for the details to be able to give a quote just message me. 10:01:17 If I need to write library for parsing binary data structures should I use metaclasses and stuff for patterns or it will just make my code complicated? 10:01:23 -!- ASau [~user@p5797EDA1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:01:55 ASau [~user@p5797EDA1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:03:37 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:04:39 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:06:27 minion: binary-types? 10:06:27 binary-types: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/binary-types 10:06:44 it uses macros instead of metaclasses, but the gist is the same 10:07:03 Cool, thanks. 10:07:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:07:52 -!- miql_ [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:10:27 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:10:48 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192132.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:23 cibs [~cibs@118-163-170-73.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:44 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:17:55 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:20:08 harish [~harish@155.69.178.63] has joined #lisp 10:22:01 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-161-158.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:22:16 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192132.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 10:22:35 -!- [6502] [b0cec47a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.176.206.196.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:24:19 -!- harish [~harish@155.69.178.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:28:34 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:08 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:33:04 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:35:50 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.103.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:50 harish [~harish@155.69.178.63] has joined #lisp 10:39:55 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:40:25 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 10:40:56 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.57.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:41:23 -!- harish [~harish@155.69.178.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:41:32 -!- hajovonta [vebsl@62.212.72.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:42:53 -!- galdor_ is now known as galdor 10:45:38 hajovonta [fyk@62.212.72.240] has joined #lisp 10:47:22 josemanuel [~josemanue@114.206.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:47:26 hitecnologys: I would first investigate if cl-store works for you. It can serialize everything except lambda's 10:48:30 maxm: I need to store data efficiently. 10:49:01 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 10:50:30 maxm: cl-store saves lots of unneeded stuff like brackets. 10:51:34 *stassats* would recommend his own library if he could recommend it 10:51:42 -!- loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:52:00 hitecnologys: well once again it all depends on volume, how often you load / store it.. before inventing your own check several existing solutions.. Examples would be: 1. Dump lisp image (cons, can't do with threads running on SBCL) 2. Dump huge tree of arbitrary lisp structures/classes/arrays/hashes into binary file -> cl-store 3. NoSQL type database -> I know H3ns has one (bknr-store?) that uses metaclasses, stassats has his own too, 10:52:00 never checked any of them out though. 4 -> SQL database (mysql, postgress, oracle whatever) 5. cloud storage 10:52:03 i.e., if it weren't ad-hoc, had tests and were documented 10:52:33 so it all depends on your use case, your request is too generic.. Its like asking "i would like to store things".. Answer field is very wide 10:53:35 *stassats* uses direct memory manipulation and his own i/o streams on sbcl to get the best performance 10:53:36 maxm: I'm writing simple minecraft server, I need fast load and unload of things from my hard drive. 10:54:00 hitecnologys: why does it need to be faster than what cl-store can do for you? 10:54:03 harish [~harish@155.69.178.63] has joined #lisp 10:54:18 faster is better, haven't you heard? 10:54:30 right. more is more. 10:54:38 H4ns: cl-store works fast, but it uses lots of useful space. 10:54:41 :) 10:54:44 i also heard that if you paint it read it'll be faster 10:54:46 hitecnologys: so? 10:55:27 hitecnologys: is your application done and now you're optimizing? 10:55:32 H4ns: it not an option if I decide to use really big maps, now I'm using it op course. 10:55:34 s/read/red/ 10:55:46 s/op/of 10:55:57 that's what i should name my db, rouge-db 10:55:57 hitecnologys: really big like in what kind of size are you talking about? 10:56:35 honestly, recently I've been converting to zmq a bit, and saying "you know what, screw threads", ie apache model 10:56:42 H4ns: like about 4096*16*100*lots. 10:57:00 which opens up a pretty cool possibility of your transactional checkpointing being (fork) 10:57:04 A wise choice. 10:57:14 and if nessesary dump 10:57:58 maxm: bknr-datastore is basically designed around that principle. just so you know. 10:58:01 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:58:20 hitecnologys: so a few hundred megabytes, why do you worry? 10:58:21 i mean you have 1000 young modafinil filled linux hackers with iron hand of Linus directing them, hacking on VM, copy on write and all that shit. There no way you can match their intellectual output on optimizing things to run fast 10:58:32 so why not use that, and to use that you go with forks 10:58:43 -!- harish [~harish@155.69.178.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:58:55 or you use what suits best 10:59:07 H4ns: ah, nothing new under the sun eh :-) 10:59:47 H4ns: so why does it need metaclasses and stuff like that then? just for the case of lisp version upgrade, where it can't reload old image? 11:00:25 that's a non-sequitur 11:00:32 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:00:45 H4ns: I don't really worry, I'm just exploring ways to remove unneeded work some time in the future 11:00:50 maxm: it does not need metaclasses. the transaction system is just a bunch of functions. the object database layer uses the transaction system and metaclasses to implement persistence for clos objects. 11:00:56 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:01:07 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:01:48 hitecnologys: i'd suggest that you use an existing solution for now. maybe measure the performance with realistic map sizes. just don't start writing a minecraft server by implementing a binary on-disk storage system. 11:02:05 hitecnologys: just my advice. you can certainly do what you want. 11:02:39 *stassats* started by implementing on-disk sexp storage system 11:03:03 -!- agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:04:20 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has joined #lisp 11:05:22 never can get the notion "i can do better" out of me 11:05:32 generally for games, it seems storing blobs is pretty good solution 11:05:44 H4ns: thanks, I'm not going to write my own advanced super cool extremely optimized storage system of course because I haven't checked all solutions that already exist for this and it's just dumb idea to start from here. 11:05:54 look how far Eve online went, and their storage model is pretty much Python cPickled blobs, stored in mssql 11:06:24 hitecnologys: incidentally, writing storage systems is fun, forget about minecraft 11:06:28 just write a storage system 11:06:31 heh their RPC protocol is also cPickled blobs 11:06:35 cached on client side 11:06:47 harish [~harish@155.69.178.63] has joined #lisp 11:07:17 stassats: problem is, without the target area or usage to stretch storage system legs, you never know if its any good 11:07:30 make it good for everything 11:07:40 stassats: yep, it's fun, but I need to implement full login procedure and then I can freely have fun 11:07:43 or, as they say, scalable 11:07:58 I'm sure some ppl deal with more data, here is my data size http://i.imgur.com/9g2OiUF.png 11:08:29 right now storage model is pretty much files, hand-coded in c++ (kind of like git) 11:08:37 a screenshot showing text, how quaint 11:08:52 (and my data size is 4.4M) 11:09:11 wimpy, but i can load it in 40 milliseconds! 11:09:21 *maxm* has a single key shortcut to make screenshot -> imgur url in clipboard, faster then formatting middle click paste 11:10:18 you never know if your data storage is any good. 4 meg is less then 8 year old hard drive cache size 11:10:40 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:10:53 -!- harish [~harish@155.69.178.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:11:38 well, it's smaller than my L3 cache 11:11:58 but being fast for small data sizes is important too 11:14:40 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has joined #lisp 11:15:29 and that 4.4M has >170K of CLOS objects 11:16:17 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:17:02 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-185-250.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:20:33 harish [~harish@155.69.178.63] has joined #lisp 11:21:02 imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has joined #lisp 11:25:15 -!- harish [~harish@155.69.178.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:25:23 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@10.Red-79-155-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:26:51 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:28:02 To what purpose? 11:28:26 Does .quicklisp/local-projects have higher priority than .quicklisp/dists? 11:28:55 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:00 abeaumont [~abeaumont@10.Red-79-155-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:46 hitecnologys: yes. 11:30:13 Xach: world dominance 11:30:29 hitecnologys: yes. but lower than anything else in your asdf system registry. 11:31:54 That's nice, I just used to putting newer sources to local-projects if they aren't in quicklisp yet, just wanted to make sure that I do things right. 11:33:16 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:35:01 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:37:49 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@61.14.130.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:39:57 -!- Fade [fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:40:04 Fade [fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 11:42:37 Huh, cl-store stores data pretty efficiently. 11:47:55 one should bother with performance when it starts being noticible... 11:48:23 -!- turbopape [29e629f6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.230.41.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:48:49 zorkmoid: I'm bothering about space mostly =P 11:49:21 hitecnologys: space? with multi terabyte disks? 11:49:51 zorkmoid: I just don't want to waste it for nothing 11:50:15 hitecnologys: you trade space for development time. 11:51:16 H4ns: yeah, that's true... 11:51:26 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:26 Use a profiler to direct your efforts. 11:52:23 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-136-120.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:53:32 heh 11:53:43 sometimes people have to go through optimizing phase.. Only realizing your wasted months of time on something that does not matter, can lead to firm "never again!" commitment :-) 11:55:00 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:06 That's just my another worst problem: I'm crazy about efficiency and I know this way leads to nowhere at the same time. I just can't... resist. 11:57:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:58:18 hitecnologys: it doesn't lead to nowhere... efficiency is important, when it can make an actual impact. 11:59:37 zorkmoid: the problem is to understand if optimization is worth time and resources spent on it 11:59:49 hitecnologys: hence profiling! :-) 12:00:10 and being annoyed that something takes a long time where a long time is something that impacts your workflow... 12:00:54 Yeah, profiling is nice thing. 12:02:47 -!- zorkmoid [c2ed8e14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.20] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:03:05 zorkmoid2 [c2ed8e14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.20] has joined #lisp 12:03:10 -!- zorkmoid2 is now known as zorkmoid 12:04:12 sighs 12:05:17 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-136-120.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:06:44 Framedragger [~k@unaffiliated/framedragger] has joined #lisp 12:07:19 fenton1 [~fenton@ppp-124-121-17-144.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 12:10:12 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:10:18 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 12:10:22 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-21-112.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:10:44 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 12:12:09 bitonic [~user@wavelan5.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:14:15 -!- pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:16:51 if you want to find a substring of a string how do you search for it via find ? 12:17:20 wbooze: you dont 12:18:15 what do you use then ? 12:18:18 wbooze: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_search.htm 12:18:29 wbooze: although i usually use regular expressions. 12:20:08 i have an instance of a font i want to match, when i use (find "misc dejavu" (clim-extensions:port-all-font-families (find-port)) :test #'equal :key #'clim-extensions:font-family-name) i get nil 12:20:18 (find "misc dejavu" (clim-extensions:port-all-font-families [14:20] 12:20:21 ups 12:20:48 when i use (find "misc dejavu sans" (clim-extensions:port-all-font-families (find-port)) :test #'equal :key #'clim-extensions:font-family-name) i get the right result tho 12:21:41 try different :key arguments 12:21:56 erm, :test really 12:22:59 and when i use captilized Misc Dejavu ....it does not find it either.... 12:23:07 string-equal 12:23:48 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:24:01 i tried it didn't work 12:24:10 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:24:26 you did not try hard enough 12:27:45 antonv [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has joined #lisp 12:27:51 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-nzglvdhotrcjpqah] has joined #lisp 12:28:55 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-136-120.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:29:15 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:42 hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 12:30:15 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@114.206.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:13 anyone know how conformant corman common lisp is to the spec? 12:31:27 zorkmoid: My impression is that there are a lot of areas of deficiency. 12:31:36 mm... 12:31:43 Like CLISP of 10 years ago or so 12:32:01 meh 12:32:19 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:32:55 I haven't used it, though. It came up in conversation at ECLM. I'd like to email Roger about it, maybe he is interested in sharing the source, who knows? 12:33:19 Xach: afaik, the source code for ccl comes with the installation ... 12:33:28 though under a commercial license 12:33:43 Right, I am wondering if it has reached what he views as the end of its commercial potential. 12:33:51 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:33:56 ah 12:34:46 josemanuel [~josemanue@34.238.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:38:10 _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:56 what's an indication when getting a sb-? not defined ? 12:39:07 is that some char bug ? 12:39:31 ok i'll recompile.... 12:39:40 josemanuel_ [~josemanue@31.206.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:40:12 by the way i get some bounds errors too in combination with utf-8 sequences or so.... 12:41:01 can't tell where yet 12:42:11 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:59 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:42:59 imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has joined #lisp 12:43:04 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@34.238.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:44:50 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has quit [Client Quit] 12:44:51 _serial_ [~gareth@cpc1-york4-2-0-cust61.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:46 -!- _serial_ [~gareth@cpc1-york4-2-0-cust61.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52:12 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 12:52:50 What is difference between do and doing in loop? 12:53:09 none 12:53:23 use whatever sounds better 12:53:27 What about collect and collecting? 12:53:38 they're all equivalent 12:53:48 Wow, cool. 12:54:04 Thanks. 12:54:05 -!- hajovonta [fyk@62.212.72.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:54:21 hi: passive vs. active voice. 12:55:44 hitecnologys: I'll probably grumble at you if you make me read code that uses DO. 12:55:55 -!- josemanuel_ [~josemanue@31.206.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 12:56:14 sykopomp: you only want doing? 12:56:18 sykopomp: why? 12:56:27 do sounds pretty nice 12:56:29 josemanuel [~josemanue@31.206.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:56:32 *sykopomp* still can't really read CL:DO very easily. 12:56:42 *sykopomp* never bothered to learn it properly :< 12:56:44 sykopomp: we're discussing loop 12:56:52 sykopomp: well, not myself actually, but they do. 12:57:03 ohhh 12:57:22 Sorry about that. :) 12:57:50 I parsed his sentence as "what is the difference between using cl:do and doing things with cl:loop?" 12:58:18 heh 12:58:22 lol 12:58:23 sykopomp: i sense you're triggered by "do" easily 12:58:41 I am, it's a nervous tic. 12:59:30 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:14 karswell [~user@87.112.161.139] has joined #lisp 13:02:09 (do ((message (list 'as 'easy) (cons i message)) (i 1 (1+ i))) ((> i 3) (nreverse message))) 13:03:00 *H4ns* erbricht 13:04:58 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:05:20 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.87.248] has joined #lisp 13:05:23 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 13:06:34 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-66-59.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:03 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:08:05 ThePoster62 [~LOL@212.150.184.98] has joined #lisp 13:08:07 -!- ThePoster62 [~LOL@212.150.184.98] has left #lisp 13:08:38 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:08:55 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-66-59.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:09:14 ejbs [~user@h-1-254.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 13:10:07 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@10.Red-79-155-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:12:58 teggi [~teggi@123.20.103.158] has joined #lisp 13:15:51 [6502] [1fbc1260@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.188.18.96] has joined #lisp 13:16:17 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.87.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:50 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 13:19:04 <[6502]> Hello. I've been asked about interfacing a small C++ library to Common Lisp (I don't know which implementation). If you're experienced in this area and you want more details to be able to give a quote please message me... 13:19:12 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 13:19:20 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:19:21 [6502]: you've asked that question 3 times now. 13:19:35 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:20:00 [6502]: maybe you need to find other ways? 13:20:03 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:20:46 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:10 <[6502]> maybe 13:21:13 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:21:20 [6502]: i would appreciate it. thank you. 13:21:27 <[6502]> I didn't think it was a rude thing to do here 13:21:44 repeating the same message three times within one day is rude. 13:22:23 6502: ECLS is probably going to give you the least grief. 13:24:17 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:24:37 <[6502]> Zhivago: I wasn't able to make it this year and thought that if a lisper was on IRC was for sure (also) on #lisp 13:26:28 -!- fenton1 [~fenton@ppp-124-121-17-144.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 13:27:27 -!- zorkmoid [c2ed8e14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.20] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:29:42 normanrichards [~normanric@201.237.201.118] has joined #lisp 13:31:37 *maxm* once decided to byte the bullet, and write almost every loop with (do ..) in order to master it (like throw them to the shark teaching theory). After 1 week, I realized that I'm torturing myself for no reason, and went back to iterate 13:31:42 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:32:23 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:33 next thing, you'll kilobyte the bullet 13:32:52 well I like DO sometimes 13:33:20 mastering DO is like mastering starting a fire with two sticks 13:33:34 I'm setting up a COMMON-LISP package and it occurred to me that I need to do it a certain way. 13:33:45 if only you didn't have to write (x 1 1) 13:33:59 I have a package :CORE that currently defines a lot of CL symbols and exports them. 13:34:00 (repeat the form) 13:34:19 Do I create a COMMON-LISP package, import those symbols from :CORE and then export them again? 13:34:35 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.83.145] has joined #lisp 13:34:44 if you wish 13:34:53 Or do I define them in the COMMON-LISP package, export them and import them into :CORE 13:35:15 they have to have home-package of cl 13:35:29 The home package has to be :CL - got it. 13:35:49 maybe it doesn't _have_, but it's a good idea 13:36:00 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:09 -!- ejbs [~user@h-1-254.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has left #lisp 13:36:19 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:36:43 Is it bad form to define a symbol in package X, export it from X, import or use it in package Y and export it from Y again? Or is that just sloppy? 13:36:53 somess [~user@h-1-254.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 13:37:10 -!- somess [~user@h-1-254.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has left #lisp 13:37:40 "their home package need not be the COMMON-LISP package." 13:37:51 still, it's a good idea 13:40:35 Perhaps the best way to do this is to define and export the symbols from :CL, and (use-package '(:cl) :core) and :core binds the symbols to functions/values/constants etc. Does that sound reasonable? 13:40:47 yes 13:42:14 Got it - thanks. 13:43:39 -!- antonv [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:44:49 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754cd5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:48:31 ejbs [~user@h-1-254.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 13:48:59 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:08 ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:18 How would I go about to read a char and get it returned without the user having to press enter/input a newline? 13:49:33 ejbs: get control of the terminal 13:49:42 ejbs: switch your terminal to -icanon mode, then use read-char 13:49:57 Did anyone hear about Voronoi diagrams? 13:50:57 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:13 abeaumont [~abeaumont@10.Red-79-155-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:12 stassats: H4ns so there's nothing I can do with lisp itself? 13:52:19 no 13:52:34 ejbs: you need to at least use the ffi to manipulate the tty modes 13:52:45 I'm just curious if anyone tried to implement it. 13:52:51 *stassats* blames the person who deleted all the pastes from lisppaste 13:52:55 there was a paste for that 13:53:33 protist [~protist@153.173.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 13:53:34 josemanuel_ [~josemanue@138.223.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:53:37 Oh well :/, thanks anyway 13:53:47 wait 13:53:50 don't go anywhere 13:53:58 stassats: why did you not ask the hosting provider to restore the pastes from a backup, btw? 13:54:21 H4ns: because the hosting provider said "there's no backups" 13:54:48 stassats: ah! 13:55:04 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@31.206.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:55:12 what pastes got deleted ? 13:55:27 all of them 13:55:59 I'm still here, no worries. if it was me you meant, I mean :) 13:56:11 #598 is still there 13:56:16 davazp [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:19 i found a stash of old pastes 13:56:38 you could try scraping from archive.org 13:56:46 -!- [6502] [1fbc1260@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.188.18.96] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:56:52 "could" 13:57:12 ejbs: http://paste.lisp.org/display/132488 13:57:20 -!- josemanuel_ [~josemanue@138.223.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:26 i finally recalled the name 13:57:57 Oh, I remember this paste. 13:58:23 stassats: ooh, thanks a lot! 13:58:24 Some day I asked about this when I was porting zombies game to sbcl. 13:59:12 josemanuel [~josemanue@160.215.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:59:13 kiuma [~kiuma@host148-131-static.28-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:59:29 hitecnologys: Check out this - it's an iphone game a friend of mine wrote based on Voronoi diagrams - https://itunes.apple.com/app/vorn/id383024240 14:00:07 drmeister: I know how to generate them and how they look, I need just to look how other people implemented it. 14:00:38 drmeister: but thanks anyway, this game looks nice 14:01:06 Yeah - it was more of a side comment than answering your question directly. Jeff Sember is his name and he wrote a couple of papers on Voronoi diagrams 14:01:54 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:21 :) http://web.archive.org/web/20090415152626/http://paste.lisp.org/display/1 paste #1 14:02:28 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:03:05 josemanuel_ [~josemanue@138.234.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:04:08 bhyde: http://paste.lisp.org/display/1 14:04:51 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@160.215.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:05:08 so, was the counter restarted, is there a gap, or is the rumors of lost pastes exaggerated, or ... 14:05:22 all of the above 14:06:07 except rumors of lost pastes are true 14:06:08 *bhyde* goes off to count rumors of gaps in reset counters 14:06:45 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:17 josemanuel [~josemanue@153.188.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:09:54 guiambros [~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:27 -!- josemanuel_ [~josemanue@138.234.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:11:13 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:11:40 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:11:49 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:12:00 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:15:27 -!- mcsontos_ [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-xnzqjlvkpepjafpz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:15:53 lkjh [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has joined #lisp 14:15:58 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:16:28 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #lisp 14:17:05 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-nzglvdhotrcjpqah] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 14:18:03 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 14:27:14 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@153.188.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:34 Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has joined #lisp 14:30:00 davazp` [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:07 -!- davazp [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30:46 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:57 hlavaty` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 14:32:07 -!- davazp` is now known as davazp 14:32:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:32:41 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:32:58 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:33:48 -!- hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:39:39 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:23 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:43:53 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 14:44:27 zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has joined #lisp 14:44:44 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-109-134.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 14:47:39 ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.206] has joined #lisp 14:50:27 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 14:50:27 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:51:41 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 14:51:55 -!- gavilan2 [~Gavilan2@184.75.213.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:54:05 Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 14:59:08 Xach: pretty sure I got buildnode-xul fixed. It is mostly obsolete, but potentially still useful to someone at somepoint 14:59:56 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:34 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:01:20 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@10.Red-79-155-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:01:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:02:13 abeaumont [~abeaumont@209.Red-83-61-64.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:32 -!- protist [~protist@153.173.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05:03 the missing file? 15:05:25 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@201.237.201.118] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 15:10:18 -!- mefogus is now known as `fogus 15:12:32 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-81-52.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:12:33 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 15:13:23 -!- bitonic [~user@wavelan5.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:15:10 protist [~protist@153.173.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 15:15:28 bobbysmith007: is that missing file maybe not checked in but is present locally? 15:18:30 pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 15:18:37 -!- pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 15:18:37 pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 15:20:07 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-109-134.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 15:20:28 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-109-134.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:20:56 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-109-134.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:20:58 Xach: no I just removed the dependancy, that file is not required 15:21:12 hmm 15:21:15 *Xach* tries rebuilding 15:21:28 nymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has joined #lisp 15:21:37 hello guys... I've strage troubles determinig the number of elements contained in the set of all subsets of the set {1 2 3 ... 16 }. I have strangely evalutation aborted on NIL... :( 15:22:19 miql_ [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:43 -!- p_nathan [~vlion@98.145.133.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:24:12 maybe there are many elements and my function is not so well written, anyway no troubles in determing the length of the power set of { 1 2 3 ... 10 } to say. (I get 1024 in this latest case) ... any suggestion? 15:24:37 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:25:56 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-109-134.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:26:26 I get e.g. (power-set '(1 2 3 )) => (NIL (3) (2) (2 3) (1) (1 3) (1 2) (1 2 3)) 15:27:30 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-109-134.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:35 the empty set is a subset of '(1 2 3). 15:27:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:45 bitonic [~user@dyn1221-151.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:27:53 pierpa`` [~user@host126-61-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:28:02 nil is the empty set maybe 15:28:42 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:28:54 Odyessus [~odyessus@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 15:29:17 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-109-134.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:30:22 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:31:45 it's certainly the empty list 15:34:14 -!- _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 15:34:30 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:36:19 beaumonta [~abeaumont@36.Red-79-146-247.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:27 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@209.Red-83-61-64.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:38:41 pkhuong: ok, but (length nil) <=> (lentgh (list )) <=> 0 15:39:28 s/but// 15:39:44 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 15:40:32 anyway ... an empty set is the null set or measure-zero set 15:41:19 p_nathan [~vlion@98.145.133.23] has joined #lisp 15:41:25 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.13.161] has joined #lisp 15:41:32 ThePoster60 [~COS@212.150.184.98] has joined #lisp 15:41:57 _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:57 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1221-151.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:42:06 -!- ThePoster60 [~COS@212.150.184.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:18 so numerically (I think) there is no much difference between am empty set and an empty list (but maybe I'm wrong). 15:42:55 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.215.206] has joined #lisp 15:43:00 wgslayer [~wgslayer@dslb-084-058-026-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:58 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:47:04 arademaker [user@nat/ibm/x-ysqyaqlimaopblcw] has joined #lisp 15:47:29 ...I mean that the cardinality of the null set is equal to the length of the empty list 15:49:12 and I'm measuring the cardinality of the power set using the length function! :) 15:51:55 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-66-59.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:58 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:59 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:52:08 bitonic [~user@dyn1221-151.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:53:46 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 15:54:34 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:59:30 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:49 kimochiwarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has joined #lisp 16:03:37 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@213.47.71.36] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:05:00 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:44 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 16:07:51 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:33 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:09:55 -!- hagish [~hagish@host-88-217-174-111.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:10:43 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:11:45 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:12:27 -!- arademaker [user@nat/ibm/x-ysqyaqlimaopblcw] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:12:59 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:01 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:07 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 16:15:19 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 16:15:31 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:18:42 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:20:01 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:20:43 -!- davazp [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:21:20 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:21:36 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:58 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dcooper8] 16:22:28 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:22:40 Well, that was quick. 16:23:06 ok, I rightly have (length (power-set (list ))) <=> (length (power-set ())) <=> (length (power-set nil)) <=> (expt 2 0) <=> 1 16:23:07 Roger Corman says he wants to open-source Corman Lisp and outlined some of the challenges in getting it to build on typical modern Windows systems. 16:23:28 *Xach* emails back 16:25:18 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:54 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-3096455843.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:27:58 woah. 16:28:42 challenges include a lot of 32-bit x86 asm and Visual Studio 2005 required 16:30:16 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:30:55 davazp [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:06 josemanuel [~josemanue@121.217.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:33:31 -!- zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:34:23 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:35:29 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.200.207] has joined #lisp 16:36:17 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1221-151.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:37:24 Xach: nice! 16:37:38 talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:37:38 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Changing host] 16:37:38 talas [~talas@unaffiliated/talas] has joined #lisp 16:38:23 -!- ck [~ck@dslb-094-219-237-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:38:30 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:38:37 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:20 I want to help but I actually don't have windows, vs 5, etc 16:39:36 but i guess I can help get it out there for someone with those things! 16:40:01 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-3096455843.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:40:10 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-37-151.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:40:28 neither do I, but I can read source files, even with DOS line ending. 16:41:29 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:56 -!- xrq [~user@unaffiliated/xrq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:16 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.13.161] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 16:45:45 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:48:13 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 16:49:44 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:50:49 -!- davazp [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:29 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:54:05 ejbs` [~user@h-208-29.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 16:55:48 -!- ejbs [~user@h-1-254.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:56:49 I've (length (list (list ))) => 1 . Is that strange? 16:56:51 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-3096455843.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:57:01 your question is strange 16:57:12 ok... sorry 16:58:12 (length (power-set (list ))) =>1 but (length (power-set (list (list )))) => 2 16:59:14 better: (equalp (list ) nil) => T but (equalp (list (list )) nil) => NIL 16:59:25 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@121.217.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:59:27 is this another one of this "let's chain as many functions as possible without understanding what they're doing" things? 16:59:58 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-109-134.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 17:00:18 pnpuff: all of that is correct. what is the problem, how do you not understand your own functions 17:00:21 pnpuff, (list ) => nil, (list (list )) -> (list nil) => (nil) 17:00:24 stassats: I simply do not understand why (length (list (list ))) => 1 17:00:32 pnpuff: if you can't see the difference between the empty set and a set containing only the empty set, you might want to find some introduction to both CL and discrete math. 17:00:46 arademaker [user@nat/ibm/x-bipvmptlbwuofxqr] has joined #lisp 17:01:03 -!- ejbs` is now known as ejbs 17:01:06 pnpuff: (list (list)) is a list of one element, nil. this is easy. 17:01:42 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:57 try (elt (string (class-name (class-of (type-of (length (list (list))))))) 0) 17:02:01 that should shed some light 17:02:13 what 17:02:24 pkhuong: a test of propositional logic maybe ... 17:02:45 ehaliewicz: it's how pnpuff learns CL 17:02:49 i see 17:04:29 arademak` [user@nat/ibm/x-wgcuztgfjvtpnpqt] has joined #lisp 17:04:53 josemanuel [~josemanue@158.202.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:04:57 ok... thanks for help Bike and stassats ! 17:05:22 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:05:41 you should really disconnect from IRC and come back only after you read the gentle introduction 17:05:58 before embarrassing yourself further and further 17:06:13 -!- arademaker [user@nat/ibm/x-bipvmptlbwuofxqr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:07:01 stassats, is nothing embarrassing in not understanding as far as he try. Plus you make him feel bad 17:07:20 ... I've no problema at all ... 17:07:33 rszeno: this things are beyond primitive 17:07:37 -!- pjb`` is now known as pjb 17:07:43 I'm happy iff I understand :-) 17:08:04 agree but doesn't mean are well known by everybody 17:08:25 rszeno: context is important. one such incident might inspire pity, a series of them becomes tedious. 17:08:27 rszeno: and pnpuff admitted he isn't using any material to learn 17:08:46 so, he's just bashing things into the repl and then terrorizing #lisp with questions 17:09:22 while being directed countless times to freely available learning materials 17:09:47 it's not fair to the people in #lisp to endure such questions 17:10:26 pnpuff: (defun .list (&rest elements) (if (null elements) '() (cons (first element) (apply (function .list) (rest elements))))) (defun .length (list) (if (null list) 0 (1+ (.length (rest list))))) 17:10:31 i don't know, is probably about tolerance 17:10:36 pnpuff: now, how is (.length (.list (.list))) strange? 17:11:10 pjb: how can you chat when there are critical unfixed things in com.informatimago!! 17:11:15 pnpuff: my advice: either read a CL implementation, or write one! 17:11:16 rszeno: do you suggest people just leave? 17:11:18 Xach: :-) 17:11:32 Xach: a good week end is starting, it should be fixed on Monday. 17:11:40 stassats: ok, I'll try to be less obsessive... 17:11:46 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:12:00 i don't suggest anything is a community, reaction are dictated by peoples 17:12:03 pnpuff: just read the goddamn gentle introduction 17:12:08 stassats: why not simply /ignore him? 17:12:18 ejbs: and everyone who replies? 17:12:38 just /ignore argument is never good 17:12:39 We're optimistic and inclusive. 17:12:41 Oh right. I guess it'll only work if everyone /ignore:s him 17:12:53 ... but I've also need to interact with people that know the matter 17:12:56 You have to be at the level of gavino to be /ignored. 17:12:59 there's #lispcafe 17:13:18 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-3096455843.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:15:24 pnpuff: It's okay to ask questions when you've read the basics or something. 17:15:40 ThePoster56 [~COS@212.150.184.181] has joined #lisp 17:15:40 -!- ThePoster56 [~COS@212.150.184.181] has left #lisp 17:17:52 yes... you've right ... sometimes I'm too impulsive in asking question. :) 17:18:41 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:47 it's not about impulses, it's about the quality of questions, it shows that you haven't made due diligence in trying to answer it yourself 17:19:22 common lisp is not some obscure topic that only elite priests know, there are books for any level of prior knowledge 17:20:36 and you've been coming here, for how long? a year? or two? and still no progress 17:21:09 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:21:53 ... yes, there is a lot of work to do ... 17:22:19 flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 17:22:19 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 17:22:19 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 17:22:57 easy-iPad [~easyipad@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 17:23:25 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:29:23 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 17:29:23 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.78.75] has joined #lisp 17:29:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.78.75] has quit [Changing host] 17:29:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:29:30 -!- ejbs [~user@h-208-29.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:29:44 -!- wgslayer [~wgslayer@dslb-084-058-026-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:29:51 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-137-210.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 17:30:45 bitonic [~user@dyn903-152.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:32:48 ThePoster56 [~COS@212.150.184.181] has joined #lisp 17:32:48 -!- ThePoster56 [~COS@212.150.184.181] has left #lisp 17:33:54 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 17:34:36 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc01-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 17:34:49 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 17:34:51 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@158.202.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:35:42 normanrichards [~normanric@201.237.201.2] has joined #lisp 17:35:54 josemanuel [~josemanue@49.234.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:42:59 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-3096455843.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:44:14 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:44:19 -!- spacebat [spacebat@50.56.189.236] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:45:36 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:09 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@host148-131-static.28-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:46:27 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:17 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:47:21 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:57 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:48:47 -!- arademak` [user@nat/ibm/x-wgcuztgfjvtpnpqt] has left #lisp 17:49:09 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:55 -!- easy-iPad [~easyipad@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Outta here?] 17:53:05 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@201.237.201.2] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 17:54:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:55:44 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:28 so.. is there any plan to turn sb-texinfo into an actual contrib? 18:00:20 spacebat [spacebat@50.56.189.236] has joined #lisp 18:00:38 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-3096455843.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:01:12 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-2-174.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:01:44 jewel [~jewel@105-236-190-8.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:03:08 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:26 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 18:09:47 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.42.217] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 18:10:16 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@49.234.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:25 josemanuel [~josemanue@125.173.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:13:19 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 18:13:46 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:13:52 -!- dlind [~dlind@h-184-111.a322.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:18:08 huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has joined #lisp 18:19:26 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 18:19:31 hi 18:19:54 Darn, Roger won't be around for 2 weeks. 18:22:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-124.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:22:47 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:23:46 ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.28] has joined #lisp 18:24:47 REPLeffect_ [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:24:54 code_vicious [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has joined #lisp 18:24:59 -!- REPLeffect_ [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Client Quit] 18:25:22 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:26:32 bitonic` [~user@dyn1217-34.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:27:13 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:28:17 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn903-152.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:34:05 szkrabik [~szkrabik@hod197.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:38:10 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 18:40:01 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:40:38 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:42 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:43 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 18:41:30 -!- szkrabik [~szkrabik@hod197.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:43:43 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-38-181.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:43:49 -!- bitonic` [~user@dyn1217-34.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:45:15 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-246-217.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:16 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:48:24 normanrichards [~normanric@201.237.201.2] has joined #lisp 18:49:37 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 18:50:37 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 18:50:44 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:14 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-192-132-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:52:27 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:52:41 huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has joined #lisp 18:53:05 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 18:55:13 -!- ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:56:21 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:37 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dcooper8] 18:57:06 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:57:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:17 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:58:28 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 270 seconds] 18:59:15 davazp [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:45 protist_ [~protist@29.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 19:00:09 Xach: so, what's in Corman Lisp that we don't have in other Open Source CL implementation for windows? 19:02:52 -!- protist [~protist@153.173.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:05:02 -!- zacts [~blueberry@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:15 zacts [~blueberry@c-174-50-75-226.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:06 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:06:08 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.13.161] has joined #lisp 19:06:13 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:06:32 Not sure. 19:07:21 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-3096455843.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:09:19 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.103.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:53 -!- protist_ [~protist@29.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:09:55 szkrabik [~szkrabik@188.146.95.23.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 19:10:57 -!- szkrabik [~szkrabik@188.146.95.23.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:53 delivery as dll 19:12:03 if my memory serves me 19:12:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:02 tyrick [~tyrick@c-50-143-173-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:33 ejbs [~user@h-208-29.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 19:19:51 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@125.173.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:19:59 josemanuel [~josemanue@73.239.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:20:16 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:21:22 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298A71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:23:16 jaaso [~user@109.175.27.246] has joined #lisp 19:23:47 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@73.239.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:34 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:29:05 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:30:07 GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@AMontpellier-651-1-340-68.w92-145.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:30:18 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:31:43 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 19:31:50 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:32:37 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:33:30 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:35:10 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 19:35:42 ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.206] has joined #lisp 19:36:36 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:36:44 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:32 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d858065.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:17 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:17 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:39:23 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d858065.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:41:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-124.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:44:33 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d858065.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:36 -!- lkjh [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:45:06 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:46:48 -!- code_vicious [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:47:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-124.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:51:57 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-158-252.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:52:22 cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-69-189.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:52:26 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 19:52:27 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@201.237.201.2] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 19:55:41 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-192-132-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:55:45 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-190-8.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:56:58 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:57:25 -!- ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:01:12 ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:10 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:02:38 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@198.109.114.148] has joined #lisp 20:05:00 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:05:12 dim: for a time it was both the most serious and most affordable CL for windows. 20:05:50 It's a bit frozen in time, now, but perhaps it could be thawed to good effect. 20:09:09 dim: I've never used it myself, but looking at the features, the big ones are saving as a gui application (no console window popup), exporting a dll, and running an image as a COM server 20:10:19 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc01-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:41 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:35 I guess ECL can produce dlls too 20:11:35 -!- ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.206] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 20:12:02 ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.206] has joined #lisp 20:13:23 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 20:13:32 dfox [~dfox@178.248.252.199] has joined #lisp 20:15:25 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-25-196-245.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:02 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 20:16:08 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:23 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@1-164-212-249.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:17:26 normanrichards [~normanric@201.237.201.2] has joined #lisp 20:17:27 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:17:46 -!- ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:19:17 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:17 ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.206] has joined #lisp 20:21:38 -!- davazp [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:22:37 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc01-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:33 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:25:45 Re-L [~Arttt@247-111-202-46.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:29 -!- argyi [~user@134-208-2-206.ndhu.edu.tw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:28:58 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:08 tesuji [~tesuji@unaffiliated/tesuji] has joined #lisp 20:31:17 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 20:32:12 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:22 -!- ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:35:23 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:36:06 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-2-174.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:36:21 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:39:24 bitonic` [~user@2.126.175.247] has joined #lisp 20:39:48 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 20:39:59 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:40:24 Hey lispers, I have an kind of a messy situation that I need to cleanup in a Common-Lisp acceptable way. 20:40:49 best to do cleanup in an unwind-protect 20:41:01 wrap it in a with-mess macro, bob is your uncle 20:41:23 I have a lot of symbols that should be in the COMMON-LISP package (about 750 of the 978 CL symbols) that I have defined within a system package as I was developing my implementation. 20:41:55 So for instance PRINT has as it's home package :CORE 20:42:04 :CORE and :SYS are synonymous. 20:42:11 Nicknames of the same package. 20:42:25 ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:42 *ehu* wonders about drmeister's point 20:42:48 drmeister: don't do that. 20:42:57 The CL standard says that CL symbols don't need COMMON-LISP to be their home package. Do I just export PRINT from :CORE, import it into :COMMON-LISP and export it again? 20:43:02 drmeister: define the common-lisp package with 978 :intern clauses 20:43:26 then import PRINT into core, or just do (defun cl:print ...) when in-package core, or similar. 20:43:45 drmeister: didn't you already ask that?.. I think a reasonable solution is to define the CL package and have SYS use it then define the meanings of those symbols in it 20:43:47 Xach: That is going to require a LOT of work. 20:43:48 or rather, 978 string designators in :intern, and 978 string designators in :export. 20:43:56 drmeister: mostly mechanical! 20:44:03 Not in C++ 20:44:06 drmeister: Not with a few Emacs macros it won't 20:44:22 drmeister: Wait, C++? 20:44:28 Yes, C++ 20:44:29 drmeister: since I'm not the one doing it I feel comfortable saying "just do it" 20:45:10 you don't want someone printing a CL symbol to see a different home package when *package* is not the CL package. 20:45:15 I was on earlier asking this question. This morning I thought I had a solution. When I started appreciating what I was getting into I recoiled in horror. 20:45:16 hello 20:45:46 I'm trying to package slime for a Linux distro. Anybody familiar with this tool? 20:45:51 ryoshu: why? 20:45:56 josemanuel [~josemanue@121.197.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:46:07 ryoshu: why? 20:46:09 Ok, I'm going to have to sleep on this - I need to find another way. 20:46:10 wait, wait, doesn't the CL package just have to have those symbols /exported/, and their home package can be whatever? 20:46:35 I'm figuring out where to install the untarballed files 20:46:37 Bike: I think so. I'm talking more about how I would want to see it, not sure what the spec requires. 20:46:46 Bike: According to the standard http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/sec_11-1-2-1.html they don't need to have CL as the home package. 20:47:05 /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/site-start.d for .el 20:47:08 ryoshu: install slime through quicklisp. It is a lot easier 20:47:26 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 20:47:28 I would really prefer to see it print as CL:CAR or COMMON-LISP:CAR and not GR8LISP:CAR 20:47:39 ryoshu: what distro ? 20:47:55 fenlix Mageia - RPM distro 20:47:59 -!- zacts [~blueberry@c-174-50-75-226.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:48:06 ryoshu: 1. Install Quicklisp 2. (ql:quickload :quicklisp-slime-helper) 20:48:06 It does say that the symbol has to be "present" in the COMMON-LISP package. 20:48:15 minion: thwap to drmeister 20:48:15 drmeister: direct your attention towards thwap: THWAP! http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif and http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif (see also: http://www.unmutual.info/misc/sb_itsits.mp3 ) 20:48:43 Denommus thanks, I will look what is it; but after the packaging 20:49:28 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 20:53:21 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-93-133.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:56:00 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d858065.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 20:56:05 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 20:56:39 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:27 ikki [~ikki@187.208.156.12] has joined #lisp 21:02:16 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-22-158.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 21:03:29 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:04:33 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-3096455843.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:07:07 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:07:21 -!- Re-L [~Arttt@247-111-202-46.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 21:08:28 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-137-210.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:09:03 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 21:11:36 gmcastil [~user@50.23.115.103] has joined #lisp 21:11:45 zickzackv [~faot@g225059207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:12:37 The .spec of [emacs-]slime is complete, I hope it's fine http://paste.opensuse.org/120583 21:13:05 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:13:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-124.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:58 -!- Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:14:28 Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 21:14:41 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:15:38 spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 21:16:50 -!- Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:18:04 Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 21:18:39 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-3096455990.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:20:37 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:22:07 -!- DerGuteMoritz [~syn@saturn.lileth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:23:03 -!- Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:24:16 developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 21:27:13 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:19 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.156.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:27:38 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:01 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:29:20 -!- _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 21:30:16 paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:36:04 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 21:36:14 davazp [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:49 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:32 ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 21:37:39 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: developernotes] 21:38:24 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 21:38:32 This is my .emacs http://paste.opensuse.org/85801334 when I try to boot it, there is an error: File error: Cannot open load file, slime 21:38:37 what am I doing wrongly? 21:40:13 probably trying to load slime from somewhere slime isn't 21:40:21 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:37 also possibly (load "slime") not (require 'slime) 21:40:38 what mean boot here? 21:41:57 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.200.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:42:29 boot = execute emacs 21:42:29 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@201.237.201.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:42:57 -!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43:37 oGMo is it looking for a specific slime file like slime.el? 21:43:45 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 21:44:01 ryoshu: yes of course 21:44:38 oGMo, I see, but then how does it know where are .lisp files? 21:44:52 ryoshu: are you sure the path is correct? 21:45:09 ryoshu: you need to tell your lisp where the lisp files are; emacs doesn't care. 21:45:39 I've changed the 2nd line to: (add-to-list 'load-path "/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/site-start.d/") and it works 21:45:56 oGMo ah! so the .lisp files are just inferior-lisp-program interest? 21:46:31 ryoshu: depending on what you mean, yes 21:47:19 -!- Framedragger [~k@unaffiliated/framedragger] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:47:22 -!- jaaso [~user@109.175.27.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:36 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:50 oGMo in my case ecl 21:48:31 I'm maybe not too precise, I'm new here 21:49:06 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:10 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:00 Ah right, Filesystem error with pathname #P"/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/site-start.d/swank-loader.lisp". 21:51:02 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:09 ryoshu: (add-to-list 'load-path ... you have to specify the path of the slime.el file (so maybe you have to do: locate slime.el) 21:51:53 if you have a locate command on your platform, otherwise find / -name slime.el 21:52:02 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:45 pnpuff, it's done now. how to tell emacs to provide .lisp files for the inferior lisp interpreter different from the location of .el files? 21:56:06 isnt' slime in quicklisp now? surely that just works 21:56:27 http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/emacs-slime.git/tree/slime_fix_changelog_and_backend.patch hmm I will try this one 21:56:34 oGMo: I already told it to him. But he wants to do the hard way because he wants to create a package for his distro 21:56:59 Denommus: ...heh 21:57:25 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:58:10 yeah. I know 21:58:57 -!- Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:59:21 wouldn't it be possible to use quicklisp to manage the packages? for example, apt-get install cl-store would be a "dummy" package to run (ql:quickload :cl-store) with the quicklisp directory in /usr/lib/quicklisp/ 21:59:57 no idea 22:00:08 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:06 daimrod, seems similar to issues with Maven (for Java), CPAN (for Perl), etc :) 22:01:56 ryoshu: are you serious (or Not) ? 22:03:01 or pip for python but AFAIK people uses mvn, cpan or pip directly without using packages manager. 22:03:24 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:03:29 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 22:03:41 at least when they are developers. 22:04:35 sure ... there are just a lot of packages utilities 22:04:41 pnpuff, please don't treat my statemens seriously, I'm just learning 22:05:06 daimrod: it would. 22:06:06 Well, I've got 184 Perl packages on my system - maintaining them without package manager by hand and just with CPAN would be painful - so I prefer a time snapshot (distro release) of them 22:06:24 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 22:06:41 or cpanm ... 22:06:59 sounds like CPAN isn't good then, quicklisp is a (montly) snapshot. 22:07:09 monthly* 22:07:36 ryoshu: CPAN isn't managed the way quicklisp is. 22:07:38 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:00 eho, I see 22:08:04 ryoshu: quicklisp is being tested for compatability between packages as well as (by others) across releases. 22:08:13 ryoshu: do you know about cl-test-grid? 22:08:15 daimrod, ah so like latex (texlive) 22:08:25 eho, I don't know it 22:08:42 leoc [~leoc.git@p5480AB4F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:08:55 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:08:58 http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-test-grid/abcl-load-failures.html 22:09:03 davazp` [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:04 ryoshu: maybe, I don't know how texlive is managed. 22:09:06 -!- davazp [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:26 ^^^ an overview of the test results of all quicklisp libraries on an implementation. 22:10:09 daimrod they release a year snapshot of latex (and friends) tools 22:10:43 ehu, ah, I'm looking at it 22:11:07 ryoshu: ok, then yes, it's similar. 22:11:17 -!- ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:10 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:13:46 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@198.109.114.148] has quit [Quit: dcooper8] 22:14:10 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:15:30 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-2-174.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:15:56 ryoshu: the other issue is that lots of perl packages are well supported by most distros PM , but lisp is mostly crap in distros PM 22:17:00 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-90-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:07 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 22:18:30 jasom, I see, excuse me... PM stands for? package managers? 22:18:36 -!- pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:18:39 which is irritating 22:18:39 I have no idea how I would ship a Lisp software in Linux 22:19:02 I always reinstall stumpwm from quicklisp, for instance. But it would be really nice if I was able to simply "cower -d stumpwm && cd stumpwm && makepkg -si" 22:19:28 ryoshu: yes 22:20:23 is there a good distro packaging Common Lisp software? 22:20:36 Maybe Debian 22:20:44 no 22:20:52 no 22:21:01 ryoshu: Gentoo 22:21:22 i mean not debian, i don't know others 22:21:23 that's what I'm wishing. I don't know what exactly is the problem, but it is difficult to... I don't know, script Lisp installation? 22:21:59 ryoshu: the good distro that packages Common Lisp software is named quicklisp. 22:22:07 fe[nl]ix, ah I will check out Portage 22:22:32 pjb, yes the same as CPAN packaging Perl :) 22:22:48 fe[nl]ix: is Gentoo any good with lisp libraries? If it's like Arch, I never use it 22:23:03 Consider adding the lisp overlay when using Gentoo. 22:23:32 antoszka o siema 22:23:53 Though currently the tree is actually *ahead* of the overlay with some stuff (ie asdf). 22:24:12 ryoshu: Siema,  #lisp-pl? 22:24:30 :) 22:24:51 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-prlxgxxcxindjxgn] has joined #lisp 22:26:15 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:39 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:29:53 is there a macro similar to Clojure's -> in Common Lisp? 22:30:04 What does it do? 22:30:04 asking out of curiosity and not of any need for it 22:30:11 There are several out there in the web. 22:30:15 Not in the spec. 22:30:18 it threads the result of one call to the next 22:30:30 pjb: function composition 22:30:36 (c (b (a))) == (-> (a) (b) (c)) 22:30:44 right 22:30:46 See http://www.informatimago.com/articles/usenet.html#Various-Macros-and-functions 22:30:51 like the . in haskell I guess 22:31:01 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:31:13 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:31:14 compose is in alexandria. 22:31:40 -!- robgssp`` [~user@cpe-24-93-28-218.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:33:02 cool thanks Bike pjb antoszka 22:34:09 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:36:22 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-90-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:36:37 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:36:55 -!- davazp` [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:37:00 Aaa, pomylilem z ^V chyba 22:37:04 mischannel 22:38:45 I don't know if it's because I'm a beginner, but CL seems a pretty alive community 22:39:15 of course, it's not as heated as C or Java, but it is always bringing new people, I dunno 22:40:18 -!- spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:40:30 Denommus: Eh, I dunno, not close to Python I guess... 22:41:14 no, it's not close to Python, but honestly, I see enough interesting stuff comming from CL 22:41:45 -!- gmcastil [~user@50.23.115.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:42:37 pyx [~pyx@24.212.148.106] has joined #lisp 22:42:47 (ok, the /u/AnotherLisper thing in /r/lisp is turning out to be a pain in the ass. When he actually posts something useful, people still downvote him) 22:43:27 -!- pyx [~pyx@24.212.148.106] has quit [Client Quit] 22:43:38 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:43:54 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-69-189.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:43:55 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d858065.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:08 cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-220-57.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:44:18 Denommus: Gah, it'd be okay if he actually contributed with comments... But no, only links. 22:44:23 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 22:46:28 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-prlxgxxcxindjxgn] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:46:40 so? It's better than contributing with only comments 22:46:51 the links are the things that actually start discussions in reddit 22:48:47 Mnyeh, both are necessary components and I consider it good etiquette to actually comment on what you're posting. This user has not made a single comment, not a single comment. Not one. Wtf? 22:49:46 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d858065.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 22:50:30 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:51:49 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:52:10 I dunno, I think we should judge by content, not by grudges 22:52:58 people can be bothered to remember and downvote specific /u/? 22:53:04 wow... 22:54:48 arrdem: Meh, it's not that hard really 22:54:59 arrdem: RES is a thing. People label each other 22:55:07 "attention whore, downvote him" 22:55:29 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:55:29 I don't doubt that AnotherLisper is actually a Clojure developer trying to spam, for some reason 22:55:46 Oh well, writing a 3d-game in lisp would be interesting 22:55:47 *arrdem* shrugs 22:55:48 I 22:55:54 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 22:56:00 but if the post is useless (like when he posts about obscure Clojure books in other languages), downvote him. Otherwise, upvote him 22:56:01 'm a Clojure fan and it may be that he's trying to push clj over cl 22:56:02 Lisp attracts crazy trolls 22:56:32 ^--- that 22:56:37 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g225059207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:56:40 I would really like to write 3D-games in Lisp, but my current work is focused on cross-platform games 22:56:56 I still couldn't manage to port a simple program from ECL to Android 22:57:11 ThePoster56 [~COS@62.233.41.198] has joined #lisp 22:57:11 -!- ThePoster56 [~COS@62.233.41.198] has left #lisp 22:57:13 gmcastil [~user@198.23.71.69-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has joined #lisp 22:57:41 Denommus: mocl to the rescue? 22:57:54 it's not out yet though... 22:58:02 if it existed, I'd use it 22:58:13 out later this month 22:58:34 although ECL does generate C files. I just don't know how to compile them in Android 22:58:43 I'm hoping so :) 22:59:14 I'm curious to give ccl a try on Android... 22:59:18 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:49 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:01:42 ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.206] has joined #lisp 23:03:12 -!- arkx_ is now known as arkx 23:03:31 -!- nymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:04:30 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 23:07:15 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 23:09:43 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 23:10:29 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:14:53 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-185-250.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:16:29 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:54 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:21:01 -!- kimochiwarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:34 kimochiwarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has joined #lisp 23:21:35 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:08 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d858065.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:31 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d858065.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:27:53 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:34 -!- gmcastil [~user@198.23.71.69-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has left #lisp 23:30:27 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:30:50 normanrichards [~normanric@201.237.201.2] has joined #lisp 23:33:02 Denommus: Isn't Android more a Java platform than C? 23:34:12 rpg: it's got native C support, but yeah - it is 23:35:07 ejbs: can you write ordinary apps in C? I think of the C stuff as being for device drivers, etc., on Android, so not for app development. 23:36:23 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 23:36:51 you can write apps, but limited .. mostly gles, not using the normal ui stuff 23:36:53 rpg: I'm pretty sure that you can 23:36:59 but fine for games 23:37:15 thanks. sorry gotta go. have a great weekend... 23:37:19 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 23:37:49 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:14 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:03 oGMo: which it was what I was going to do anyway :) 23:41:02 I just found out about github pages 23:41:12 I feel kind of dumb, now 23:41:50 github pages? 23:41:55 yup 23:42:08 http://pages.github.com/ 23:42:17 -!- talas [~talas@unaffiliated/talas] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:42:25 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.215.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:42:29 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:42:48 Oh, yeah, I... kinda knew about those. 23:47:27 knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-12.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:32 ... why is ([un]signed-byte 0) ruled out, instead of being equivalent to the NIL type? 23:50:33 ruled out? 23:51:10 clhs unsigned-byte 23:51:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_unsgn_.htm 23:51:15 "s---a positive integer." 23:51:45 obscure. 23:51:58 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 23:52:23 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:52:37 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-12.prtc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:52:56 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 23:53:12 especially since (mod 1) isn't disallowed... 23:53:43 (mod 1) is the set {0}. 23:54:01 (mod 0) is forbidden as well. 23:54:23 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:47 well it says (unsigned-byte s) is (mod 2^s), i mean. 23:54:53 knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-12.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 23:55:53 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:35 Right, {0} for unsigned0byte, and empty type for signed-byte. 23:56:44 -!- seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:51 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 23:58:22 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@121.197.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 23:59:01 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-12.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:59:37 knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-12.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:57 -!- miql_ [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]