12:52:17 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 12:52:17 12:52:17 -!- names: ccl-logbot bitonic nilsi_ jangle kobain hkBst_ drmeister josemanuel pavelpenev leo2007 normanrichards theos Kenjin kimochiwarui fenton breakds eli bhyde statl cibs lduros chu SanderM yroeht pkhuong ejbs wuyun pierpa`` BlankVerse przl kirin` Framedragger stassats naryl harish hagish DrForr rszeno Houl copec Joreji spion dfox araujo setmeaway2 morphling Mon_Ouie gabot kennyd zacharias ramus hitecnologys guyal Vivitron amszmidt varjagg dmiles_afk xificurC ck 12:52:17 -!- names: mrSpec Krystof Nisstyre-laptop ASau kushal xan_ teggi foreignFunction kiuma ecraven nightshade427 weie_ mutley89 joneshf-laptop ozzloy Myk267 edgar-rft suprahistorical Tanami rvchangue Jubb kanru Zhivago Bike Modius dRbiG namtsui Beetny Quadrescence prxq_ paddymahoney Codynyx stokachu sellout- nalaginrut bobbysmith007 easye maxm d4gg4d smazga sfa patrickwonders felipe ggherdov Vutral Tristam mcsontos_ djinni` syrinx H4ns aeth ckoch786 Guest74337 mal___ 12:52:17 -!- names: wchun NimeshNeema Batalyx aftershave jaimef Khisanth ZombieChicken tomaw smull_ embee dim Posterdati MoALTz zbigniew jhj schoppenhauer brighid hpd ttm setheus stopbit spacebat wizard` jdz walter|r oconnore cYmen AntiSpamMeta scharan cyphase abend madnificent ezakimak quackv4 mile-ton47 arrdem Corvidiu1 scode_ aoh jasom macrobat JPeterson naeg froggey flip214 samskulls lusory loke cdidd clog Natch s0ber_ j0ni__ z0d bege Guest98107 dlind gemelen Tribal 12:52:17 -!- names: Neptu_ vhost-- fourOfTwelve epsylon BlastHardcheese p_l ferada_ ``Erik EvW em joshe Guest50155 peccu1 arbscht saeftl xristos billstclair wyan lemoinem rfgpfeiffer blackwolf SHODAN luis antifuchs fds p_nathan1 seantallen Tarential tychoish felideon otwieracz clop prip callen cpt_nemo expez guaqua` sirdancealo2 Watcher7|off yeltzooo oGMo acieroid _schulte_ tvaalen ether0_ foom ft cods cmbntr rpgsimmaster rk[no-nets] Patzy rotty ski tkd balle reb` nicdev 12:52:17 -!- names: theBlackDragon igorw photex rvirding justinmcp pchrist vhost- _8david` nightfly Foxboron gko varjag zorkmoid tyrick sbryant jsnell_ tessier_ dlowe Adeon fmu sigjuice angavrilov johanbev Borbus gf3 Sgeo n0vember KingNato doomlord__ xrq` minion specbot brucem Yamazaki-kun aerique_ samebchase fe[nl]ix anaumov fasta sykopomp SquidTamer mikaelj ivan tali713 housel eichelbart aw|sovereign yan__ vsync asedeno cmm- Guest81153 cmatei Amadiro Subfusc banjiewen sytse 12:52:17 -!- names: ahungry nitefli freiksenet ianmcorvidae joe9_ |3b| ered kpreid danlentz ineiros cross entitativity Fade benny robgssp` newcup yacks kbtr_ galdor_ BeLucid sshirokov cfdm Kabaka pok mathrick __main__ mishoo quazimodo antoszka quasisane strobegen runningsm Ralt Mandus drewc- arkx_ nitro_idiot_ Praise adeht joachifm_ brendyn Xach deliciousrobots mefogus derrida gensym pjb` Harag hlavaty`` hugod ivan\ sad0ur [SLB] tensorpudding axion_ hiredman DrPete_ jayne 12:52:17 -!- names: ryoshu eak johs j_king_ rabite surrounder daimrod rtoym ahoops 12:54:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:55:54 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:45 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:49 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-065-186.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:07 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@6.187.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:59:43 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:01 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:07:37 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-moinolxtajqaglij] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09:04 -!- Zhivago [~lys@unaffiliated/zhivago] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:09:05 mgile_ [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:18 Zhivago [~lys@1.234.65.131] has joined #lisp 13:10:01 pjb`` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-111-59.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:10:03 zz_runningskull [~runningsk@li77-167.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:10:19 Xach_ [~xach@cpe-67-255-229-229.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:10:19 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-123-220.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:22 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:22 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:23 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:23 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-123-171-229.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:24 -!- kbtr_ [~kbtr@li198-73.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:24 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-177-123-220.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:25 -!- pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-111-59.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:25 -!- derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:25 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:25 -!- runningsm [~runningsk@li77-167.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:25 -!- Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:25 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:25 -!- entitativity [~entity@c-50-136-180-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:26 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.25.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:26 -!- asedeno [asedeno@nat/google/x-nwhzjbwiqlitwxzf] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:26 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:31 josemanuel [~josemanue@90.223.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:10:32 ivan\_ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 13:10:45 -!- gensym [~timo@85.158.178.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:47 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:49 -!- eichelbart [~eichelbar@91-64-170-148-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:11:01 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:10 gensym [~timo@85.158.178.76] has joined #lisp 13:11:11 derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 13:11:19 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 13:11:19 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:11:21 tomaw_ [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 13:11:22 kbtr [~kbtr@li198-73.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:24 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.25.200] has joined #lisp 13:11:33 asedeno [asedeno@nat/google/x-gpnbrnaqadaxwimm] has joined #lisp 13:11:47 eichelbart [~eichelbar@91-64-170-148-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:11:55 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:03 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-209-246.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:12:14 -!- johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 332 seconds] 13:12:23 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 13:12:27 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 13:12:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:12:40 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:12:47 -!- ivan\_ is now known as ivan\ 13:12:59 entitativity [~entity@c-50-136-180-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:17 Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 13:14:19 -!- tomaw_ is now known as tomaw 13:14:23 -!- rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 13:14:35 rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has joined #lisp 13:14:52 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-123-220.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 13:15:15 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-123-220.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:19 przl_ [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 13:15:23 p_l_ [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 13:15:40 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:15:43 -!- p_l_ is now known as p_l 13:16:00 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 13:17:02 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-32.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 13:17:02 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-32.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 13:17:02 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 13:17:37 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Client Quit] 13:17:59 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 13:18:12 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:18:51 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:51 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:51 -!- mgile_ [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 325 seconds] 13:18:51 -!- djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 325 seconds] 13:18:51 -!- Batalyx [~ji@halava.cc.jyu.fi] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 13:18:56 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:19:15 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:19:20 kimochiw` [~user@190.222.142.194] has joined #lisp 13:19:22 djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:30 -!- kimochiw` [~user@190.222.142.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:33 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:19:48 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 13:20:43 -!- rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has quit [Ping timeout: 273 seconds] 13:20:50 rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has joined #lisp 13:20:51 -!- kimochiwarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has quit [Ping timeout: 273 seconds] 13:20:51 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 273 seconds] 13:21:21 Batalyx [~ji@halava.cc.jyu.fi] has joined #lisp 13:21:31 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:03 ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:56 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:22:59 p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has joined #lisp 13:23:12 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 13:23:47 johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 13:24:47 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:48 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 13:25:37 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:25:54 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 13:26:50 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:52 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-32.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 13:26:52 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-32.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 13:26:52 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 13:27:37 agumonkey [~agu@52.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:35 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 13:31:35 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 13:31:35 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #lisp 13:35:55 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 13:36:11 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 13:36:11 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 13:36:11 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #lisp 13:37:52 -!- Zhivago [~lys@1.234.65.131] has quit [Changing host] 13:37:52 Zhivago [~lys@unaffiliated/zhivago] has joined #lisp 13:37:57 pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 13:38:01 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:38:24 Kenjin_ [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 13:38:50 why I have this strange behaviour: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137491 ? thx a lot ... 13:39:11 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #lisp 13:39:26 cfdm` [~user@116.126.96.33] has joined #lisp 13:39:33 -!- p_nathan1 [~vlion@98.145.133.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:40:28 yrk [~user@vtelinet-216-66-104-9.vermontel.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:32 Krystof (or stassats or anyone) maybe you can read this and make sure i'm not making a fool of myself: http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=1845 13:40:39 -!- yrk [~user@vtelinet-216-66-104-9.vermontel.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:40:39 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 13:40:57 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:40:57 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:40:57 -!- cfdm [~user@116.126.96.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:07 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:41:08 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:41:16 -!- felideon [~felideon@199.241.28.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:41:43 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.101.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:41:47 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 13:42:04 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.101.232] has joined #lisp 13:42:09 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:19 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has left #lisp 13:43:16 I wonder if there's a way to enumerate all hunchentoot acceptors in order to stop them 13:43:26 p_nathan1 [~vlion@98.145.133.23] has joined #lisp 13:43:32 -!- ryoshu [~kamil@unaffiliated/ryoshu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:43:41 ryoshu [~kamil@83-144-107-246.static.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 13:43:43 Is pnpuff a troll? 13:44:02 while playing around in the repl I sometimes run into a situation where there's a thread running for an acceptor but I've lost the binding to it 13:44:11 Probably just subliterate. 13:44:31 yes, subliterate.... 13:44:34 and it owns the port which is annoying 13:45:21 ejbs: are you able to answer to my question or not? 13:45:29 spacebat: save your acceptors 13:45:39 pnpuff: its not a well formed question 13:46:06 ejbs: if you are not able take a cup of coffe and do not desturb me ... 13:46:16 stassats: I would, but then I mess up 13:46:25 Okay, so either an a-hole or a troll. Ignored. 13:48:03 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-108-48-74-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:21 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:49:43 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 13:50:33 I have to abort the main loop to solve this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137491 13:50:33 (in slime) 13:50:53 Why I have to abort the main loop? 13:51:35 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:52:01 -!- callen [~callen@198.199.80.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:52:06 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-43-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:52:18 ejbs: it's his usual MO, talking nonsense, but doesn't look like a troll 13:52:38 stassats: coul you help me to understand please? 13:52:50 pnpuff: don't do that 13:52:59 pnpuff: because you're not pro-life 13:53:02 -!- yeltzooo [~yeltzooo@ec2-54-241-122-161.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:53:06 pnpuff: just do, you know, proper things 13:53:15 callen [~callen@198.199.80.102] has joined #lisp 13:53:57 -!- cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 13:54:02 cods_ [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:11 sorry stassats , what you mean with "you're not pro-life"? 13:54:18 I need only help... 13:54:19 yeltzooo [~yeltzooo@ec2-54-241-122-161.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:13 -!- cods_ is now known as cods 13:55:36 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:55:36 cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 13:55:45 pnpuff: no one here knows. let us know when you figure it out. 13:56:40 hajovonta [wzn@62.212.72.240] has joined #lisp 13:56:41 dlowe: I know no one here knows the answer to my question (except someone) 13:57:00 hello 13:57:42 -!- wuyun [~wuyun@61.173.86.40] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:59:17 pnpuff: if you knew, then why ask? 13:59:20 hi, hajovonta 14:00:27 dlowe: I know that I do not know... :-) 14:01:12 pnpuff: this would be a lot easier if you would just rephrase in lojban 14:01:12 -!- iLogical is now known as DilmaRousseff 14:03:14 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-108-48-74-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 14:04:48 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:19 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:07:04 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 14:07:19 Quadrescence: (simple-array (*)) represents the set of arrays [of rank 1] of arbitrary length 14:07:41 -!- DilmaRousseff is now known as iLogical 14:08:25 I added some methods to keep track of hunchentoot acceptors in a list so I won't lose track of them in the repl 14:08:47 and about the asterisk, all on the right hand can be omitted, if nothing is left, the parenthesis may go 14:09:01 huzzah for dynamism 14:09:11 (integer 0 *) => (integer 0), (integer * *) => (integer *) => integer 14:09:24 yes :) 14:09:39 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:48 a finite set ... 14:10:49 Quadrescence: well, if you want to be comprehensive in typescifiers, (integer 1 (5)) == (integer 1 4) 14:11:32 stassats, i was intentionally not comprehensive. I was about to be comprehensive and write an entire grammar, but I thought it'd detract from the point 14:11:33 naturally, not useful for integers, but (rational 1 (5)) is useful 14:11:34 At the moment I have a package.lisp with a long (:import-from :library :sym1 :sym2 :sym3) Is there any way of doing such imports on a per-file basis. e.g. like C++'s "using std::cout" 14:11:50 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 14:12:02 samebchase: one package per file 14:12:16 or one file per package 14:12:26 is it considered good style to have a package per file? 14:12:36 people who do that consider it a good style 14:12:45 of course, lol 14:13:09 reminds me of ocaml 14:13:14 compile-time side effects sometimes make it harder to use just one file 14:13:19 or else you drown in eval-whens 14:13:30 or have to export a gazillion of things 14:13:52 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-1-83.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:14:34 Quadrescence: i see no mention of upgrading of element types 14:14:41 I can live with having a large package.lisp, but I thought it would be better if I could import on a per-file basis. So basically, there's no way of doing this. 14:15:12 more granularity 14:15:12 i just use library:sym1 14:15:15 stassats, i wanted to save that for when i talk about homogeneous arrays for high performance numerics 14:15:52 things like alexandria:write-sting-to-file etc. 14:16:50 samebchase: yes, totally 14:16:59 I actually tried searching on Github for people who have multiple defpackages 14:17:02 yesterday 14:17:06 i reserve importing or using things which are really often used 14:17:14 if you're having to export a gazillion things, you should be thinking about the modularity of your files more 14:17:15 usually frameworky things 14:17:44 can you suggest any projects that make good (i.e. proper, not excessive) use of defpackage 14:18:10 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:21 dlowe: i was describing just one aspect, sometimes you need things to be present at compile-time, and i like to solve that be putting it into a previously loaded file 14:18:25 now that package local nicknames are in sbcl, I'm probably not going to import or use another package again 14:18:40 and the "one package per file" doesn't help here, hence you either export a ton or use eval-when 14:18:51 stassats: sure, agreed 14:19:13 and sometimes, it works on SBCL without eval-when in one file, but fails on clisp 14:19:30 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:19:38 (defun f (x y) (declare (type integer * * * *)) ((lambda (x y) (cons x (cons y nil))) y x)) :why does this form works? 14:20:09 why wouldn't it work? 14:20:13 >_> 14:20:31 clhs */v 14:20:31 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v__stst_.htm 14:20:42 is there an alternative binding for slime's slime-documentation-lookup-function which will search l1sp &/or lispdoc?  or something analogous? 14:21:00 Is it okay if I use uiop? I mean does anyone else use it? 14:21:08 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 14:21:26 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 14:21:31 Is it considered stable, etc.? 14:21:32 samebchase: i'm using it, it's used of course by asdf3, which means it's pretty fresh 14:21:47 it stems from asdf, i'm wary of anything asdf related, except for actually loading stuff 14:21:51 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:08 stassats: I'd expect it to be robust, right? 14:22:20 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:22:44 Is asdf generally known to be buggy? 14:22:59 or has it been in the past? 14:23:07 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:23:10 it tends to break compatibility 14:23:30 especially when you're using unadvertised functionality, which is bad in itself 14:23:39 bhyde: Write your own :)? It's probably not too hard 14:23:42 stassats: yes. My project didn't build on abcl after including it. I removed it after that. 14:23:45 but there was a lot of broken stuff after ASDF2, and now after ASDF3 14:24:27 so, if you want to include asdf:anything in your code, think twice 14:26:29 okay. any other cmd-line-arguments library recommendations other than command-line-arguments which depends on uiop? 14:26:31 looking at it another way like quicklisp asdf is very likely to endure 14:26:42 maybe UOIP is different 14:26:54 uiop 14:26:59 (i also hate its name_ 14:27:00 ) 14:27:11 http://cliki.net/command-line%20options%20parser 14:27:15 stassats, (thanks for the comments, by the way) 14:27:35 clon, seemed likely the best when I last was looking for one 14:27:53 and old joke would be "which clon?" 14:28:58 nymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has joined #lisp 14:29:46 bhyde: thanks. I'll check it out 14:30:38 samebchase: and i'm not entirely serious about uiop, it's just a knee jerk reaction 14:31:06 felideon [~felideon@199.241.28.84] has joined #lisp 14:31:11 -!- hlavaty`` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:31:19 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@90.223.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 14:31:23 I actually want to use it, but... 14:31:29 josemanuel [~josemanue@90.223.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:32:02 uiop has the most chance of being maintained in the future, so that's a plus 14:32:10 i use the rule of thumb "is it named after a consequent letters on a qwerty keyboard?" "probably better to avoid it" 14:32:28 :-) 14:33:10 It does have a poor name, but it's in a good position to do what it's setting out to do. I'd like to see it really solidified and expanded... 14:33:19 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:10 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:34:44 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:35:24 stassats: i'm sad to see that dvorak keyboard sequences don't give rise to better mnemonic names :( 14:36:10 sorry guys: why I get this error: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137492 ? 14:36:11 uiop seems pretty nice. It would be really nice if it had documentation 14:36:12 Quadrescence: and specialization is not for arrays only, complexes have it too 14:36:19 the name is sufficient. 14:36:43 echo-area [~user@114.254.100.157] has joined #lisp 14:36:51 How do I declare a FLET function ignorable? (DECLARE (ignoreable fn)) only works for variables. 14:37:02 (ignoreable (function fn)) 14:37:08 ignorable 14:37:21 or, as they say, #'fn 14:37:34 pnpuff: if takes two or three args, you seem to be in some other language there 14:37:36 (i prefer #'fn, of course) 14:37:48 omg , too many "" in my function... 14:38:00 pnpuff: fear not cond 14:38:24 pnpuff: yes. docstrings only after the first line. Use ";;" for comments 14:39:23 -!- hajovonta [wzn@62.212.72.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:28 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:39:38 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:39:58 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:04 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:13 not strictly true, docstrings can appear on the second line, after declarations, too 14:42:28 How do I properly delete all elements in hashtable? (maphash #'(lambda (key value) (remhash key *hashtable*)) *hashtable*)? 14:42:36 clhs clearhash 14:42:36 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for clearhash. 14:42:42 clhs clrhash 14:42:42 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_clrhas.htm 14:42:46 bloody stupid names 14:43:04 Wow, cool, thanks stassats. 14:43:15 josemanuel_ [~josemanue@176.235.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:43:33 pnpuff: "comments" work only for defuns. Use #|block comments|# or ;; line comments everywhere else. 14:43:39 One semicolon is enough 14:43:39 If I get "Implicitly creating generic function" for a library (cxml) is that because the author didn't bother writing generic functions, and straightaway went on to writing the defmethods? 14:43:42 why not clrhsh then? 14:44:03 wait I've got the sources. I'll check 14:44:11 it would be amusing to write a quick lisp package that tidy's up all the names  (in-package #:foo (:use #:tidy-common-lisp  14:44:30 bhyde: getting everyone to use it won't be 14:44:30 bhyde: I've been doing that. It's called snarc. 14:44:44 It's not on quicklisp, though 14:44:49 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@90.223.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:45:03 bhyde: you will just multiply confusion 14:45:06 snare, that's so tidy 14:45:13 it's better to have bad names, but one set of them 14:45:26 "multiply confusion"  wouldn't that be part of the amuzement? 14:45:33 bhyde: dlowe: There are plenty. Here's another one: https://github.com/Kalimehtar/cl-std 14:47:09 bhyde: i tried to exponentiate confusion by defining reader macros so that you can do  k = 1  20 (/ k 2) ;=> 105 14:47:47 or {n   : (< n 3)} ;=> (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8) or  n  (2 4 6 8): (evenp n) ;=> T 14:47:57 looks tidy 14:47:59 :)  i assume it can take latex or postscript 14:48:04 Look cool, sure. 14:49:22 I was right. Just a lot of defmethods, and no defgenerics anywhere. 14:49:47 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.207] has joined #lisp 14:50:03 samebchase: technically, it doesn't matter 14:50:15 in the absence of methods gf's are implicit 14:50:28 or so.... 14:50:32 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:50:42 samebchase: those that bother to write the defgeneric forms appear to be in the minority of common lisp authors 14:50:51 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:58 stassats: i see synergy to be had with this project https://github.com/tnovelli/aplisp#readme 14:51:03 only if you want to specialize it in a special way you need that.... 14:51:14 synergy 14:51:20 else, it's like in C++ with default constructors... 14:51:26 wow. cl-std is... mystifying 14:51:35 defgeneric is relevant if you want to document the function or (iirc) if you want optional arguments 14:51:37 -!- cfdm` [~user@116.126.96.33] has left #lisp 14:51:45 bhyde: mine is named "closer-apl", https://github.com/stassats/closer-apl/blob/master/examples.lisp 14:51:54 bhyde: really? I certainly agree that people who write defgenerics for accessors are in the minority, but I certainly don't get that impression about regular genfuns. 14:52:01 it's not really APL, since i don't know it 14:52:02 I once wrote set of reader macros too, for generating html from s-expressions. But I end up with *some-valirable* and I realized that I just wrote HTML reader. 14:52:08 specially since some implementations make it a point to warn you about it, and warnings are annoying. 14:52:43 sykopomp: it would be interesting to have some actual statistics; that's just my impression 14:52:47 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:53:04 bhyde: how much CL code have you read?... 14:53:06 *bhyde* considers his lack of defgeneric usage a slight embaressment 14:53:07 t 14:53:13 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 14:53:19 bhyde: well, if you've only read your own... :) 14:53:25 and yes, you should be ashamed. 14:53:27 SHAME 14:53:29  :) 14:53:30 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-10cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:53:33 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:36 I'm wondering how difficult it would be to automate adding defgenerics. Maybe some emacs macro or something 14:53:37 I've been writing common lisp actively since 1979 14:53:38 i even modified the readtable to print NIL as  and t as  14:53:41 but please, run some analysis on quicklisp projects. You can do that, you know. 14:54:02 err in the absence of explicit gf's, gf's are implicit meh, typo.... 14:54:04 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 14:54:25 stassats: is there a link or something where I can find this code? 14:54:39 wbooze: or simply "when defining a method, if there's no gf, it's created first" 14:54:42 hitecnologys: see above link 14:54:50 or https://github.com/stassats/closer-apl 14:54:57 sykopomp: I generally haven't seen such warnings, even after installing a lot of libraries. Could that mean that people generally have defgenerics? 14:55:01 Ah, missed it, sorry. 14:55:04 Thanks. 14:55:08 jup 14:55:37 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@student-244-150.eduroam.uu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:58 samebchase: yeah 14:56:25 Natch [~Natch@c-10cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:56:36 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 14:56:44 because SBCL is whiny 14:56:58 I have still a strange behaviour with my function: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137492#2 . I get (member? 1 t) => nil and I do not know why... 14:57:30 t is an atom 14:57:43 stassats: do you have a /usr/bin/ program? 14:57:59 1 is a fixnum 14:58:02 foom: good idea! 14:58:10 and 1 is not contained in t 14:58:23 t is not a list ?! 14:58:31 "adding defgenerics. Maybe some emacs macro" that would be nice. does sbcl complain if defgenerics are missing? 14:58:32 I'm weird -- I would like it if SBCL actually gave style-warnings about using defclass to define generic functions. :) 14:58:41 ops... right: (atom t) => T 14:58:50 (member 'atom 'list) 14:59:41 bhyde: yeah 14:59:59  <--- is a cat? 15:00:01 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@dhcp140.dmi.ens.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:08 samebchase: well, there you go 15:00:13 hrmmm, (type-of 1) => BIT 15:00:27 https://github.com/stassats/closer-apl/blob/master/examples.lisp is a hoot! 15:00:35 (type-of 2) => INTEGER 15:00:45 I'll email the maintainer and see if he's interested in a patch 15:01:13 pnpuff: \N{SMILING CAT FACE WITH HEART-SHAPED EYES} 15:01:17 (subtypep 'bit 'integer) => t t 15:01:19 wow 15:02:30 wbooze: (subtypep T T) => T T 15:03:32 (subtype T T) <=> (subtype nil T) 15:03:33 jlongster [~user@c-71-63-14-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:06 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-108-48-74-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:37 (subtypep 'nil 't) => nil t 15:05:03 discard the second return value..... 15:05:11 in the asdf, can I pass like a global variable or import a symbol that is calculated in runtime. I'm thinking of a way to specify the directory on which the project resides. 15:05:23 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-108-48-74-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:05:43 wbooze: not on clisp "2.49 (2010-07-07) (built on midas64.slackware.wan [8.15.228.159])" 15:06:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.207] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:48 doomlord___ [~servitor@host109-153-192-134.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:06:49 (defva 'my-path (make-pathname ......) (export 'my-path) ......(in-package :blah) (import-from 'blahblah 'my-path) ? 15:08:12 wbooze: nil is really a subtype of everything 15:08:22 and t a supertype of everything 15:08:46 wbooze: try (subtypep 't 'nil) 15:08:48 -!- doomlord__ [~servitor@host81-159-233-25.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:08:53 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:09:04 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:09:06 -!- samskulls [~samskulls@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:09:11 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-tpjymxartmngjans] has joined #lisp 15:10:40 pnpuff: i get nil t for (subtypep 't 'nil) 15:10:48 right 15:11:10 t is a superclass of everithing: (class-direct-superclasses (find-class T)) => NIL 15:11:26 jup 15:11:42 NIL is not a class... 15:12:20 sbcl can be named Steel   (haven't found anything for steel) 15:13:12 class and subtype/supertype are same thing? 15:13:18 no 15:13:24 :) 15:13:53 -!- Kenjin_ [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:41 rszeno: (type-of (find-class T)) => BUILT-IN-CLASS 15:15:22 yes but ..., :) 15:15:24 -!- pierpa`` [~user@host126-61-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:15:48 sellout-1 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:57 rszeno: try (find-class (type-of T)) 15:16:23 there's    15:16:25 BOOLEAN is not a class... 15:16:41 (char-name #\) => "ALCHEMICAL_SYMBOL_FOR_IRON_ORE" 15:16:43 https://gist.github.com/bhyde/5722301 alternate binding for slime-documentation-lookup-function, with prefix arg it uses l1sp.org 15:17:26 pnpuff is the way how was build 15:17:43 maybe yes... I do not know 15:18:54 (-: lol 15:19:39 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:17 aftershave [~textual@h-123-171-229.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 15:21:47 -!- ejbs [~user@5.254.138.17] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:08 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:22:22 with (member? t (list t)) I get "T is not a number" ! 15:22:40 quote it 15:22:43 what is wrong with my function? 15:22:56 (member 't (list t)) 15:23:34 wbooze: on CLISP (member t (list t)) => (T) 15:23:36 every literal is an atom, unless it's in list context like in (list t) 15:23:44 hmmmm 15:23:59 maybe clisp does the quoting for you...dunno 15:24:06 atom is defined as (not cons) 15:24:07 t evaluates to itself 15:24:55 oh, wait (member t (list t)) works here 15:25:00 (t) 15:25:07 -!- sellout-1 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:25:21 pnpuff, what do you use ? 15:25:26 scheme ? 15:25:31 wbooze: pnpuff wrote it himself 15:25:34 Was pnpuff actually calling his own MEMBER? function, or was that just MEMBER mispelled? 15:25:34 of course it's wrong 15:25:39 How to make sbcl not to complain about specific variable if it's unused? 15:25:49 (declare (ignore x)) 15:26:00 Then it complains if I use this. 15:26:04 (declare (ignorable x)) if it may be used 15:26:09 Thanks. 15:26:12 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:16 yes... 15:26:16 (member 't (list t)) <=> (member t (list t)) 15:26:18 if you use it, then you don't need anything 15:26:52 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@61.14.130.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:27:09 stassats: I need this for macro 15:27:15 pnpuff: but don't make a habit on relying behaviour of stuff like t evaling to itself..... 15:27:19 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-199-75.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:27:21 stassats: am I doing something wrong? 15:27:42 billstclair: is the member function builted in clisp, member? is my function... 15:27:59 MEMBER is Common Lisp. 15:28:14 ok so is that MEMBER 15:28:14 hitecnologys: yes, it's for macros 15:28:51 wbooze: don't make a habit? what are you talking about? 15:28:53 stassats: ok 15:29:16 wbooze: you should two go into #blind-leading-the-blind 15:30:00 lol 15:30:27 MEMBER would never complain about something not being an integer, unless you passed it a TEST or KEY that did that 15:30:59 pnpuff is using =, of course it won't work 15:31:12 right 15:31:39 that's for numeric equality 15:32:44 *billstclair* scrolls back and finds the paste link 15:32:53 -!- bitonic [~user@wavelan25-150.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:18 stassats: using equalp instead of = , from (member? t (list t)) I get T instead of (T) . Why? 15:38:42 because it's written that way 15:38:53 mmmh 15:38:54 you wrote it, you should know why 15:39:07 I'm trying to write ... 15:40:16 _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:31 (type-of(member? 't (list t))) => BOOLEAN while (type-of(member 't (list t))) => CONS ..... :( 15:42:34 ... any little help? 15:43:01 (if (= e (car s)) .... check for numeric equality? why not (if (eql e (car s)) ...? 15:43:30 it should be (if (eql e (car s)) s ...) 15:43:59 this is so primitive it shouldn't require assistance, if you're struggling with this, then you're not using the right materials to learn 15:44:07 minion: please tell pnpuff about gentle 15:44:07 pnpuff: please look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 15:44:20 Smoother than PCL? 15:44:36 naryl: gentler 15:44:37 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:45:00 it doesn't require programming background. 15:45:05 basically, it doesn't assume that you can program 15:45:28 thanks! 15:46:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.64.236] has joined #lisp 15:46:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.64.236] has quit [Changing host] 15:46:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:46:47 right, gentle was my first book 15:47:11 after that i tried a little bit of on-lisp.... 15:48:51 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@61.14.130.226] has joined #lisp 15:50:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:51:26 mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 15:51:26 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 15:51:26 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:52:41 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 15:53:27 -!- pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:54:42 pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 15:55:57 Bike: thanks to your help, now even intersection! http://paste.lisp.org/display/137492#3 is working! thanks... 15:56:09 agspathis [~user@dsl-aauwdr.dyn.edudsl.gr] has joined #lisp 15:56:09 wowowowow 15:59:03 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:23 it doesn't call itself 15:59:47 intersection!? 16:00:09 ah...right 16:01:27 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:34 -!- agumonkey [~agu@52.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:03:12 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 16:03:12 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:04 agumonkey [~agu@139.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:17 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:06:07 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 16:07:37 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:49 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:59 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.63] has joined #lisp 16:08:54 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 16:10:19 Is there anyone who can help with lparallel? 16:10:35 -!- josemanuel_ [~josemanue@176.235.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 16:10:37 stassats: anyway I have: (intersection! '(1 #\u00a4) '(#\u00a4)) => NIL , and this is wrong 16:10:45 josemanuel [~josemanue@176.235.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:10:53 -!- agumonkey [~agu@139.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:10:57 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11:23 I should have (#\CURRENCY_SIGN) as result 16:12:52 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Quit: checkity check out.] 16:13:31 ops sorry, this happens when I replace (if (atom s) s ... with (if (atom s) nil ... 16:13:33 pnpuff: first, intersection! is not recursive. 16:13:45 bitonic [~user@94.117.135.102] has joined #lisp 16:13:46 Then you use member? where is it defined? Are you sure you don't wan #scheme? 16:13:57 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:14 pnpuff, you miss a or test, intersections is symetric 16:14:23 And finally, How do you justify handling dotted lists and (intersection! 'b '(a c)) --> b ? 16:15:11 or if nil, then what about (intersection! 'b '(a b c)) --> nil ; is it scheme or lisp??? 16:15:29 is a scheme in lisp, :) 16:15:48 ogamita: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137492#4 (here the simple functions I've defined earlier) 16:15:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:16:52 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 16:17:15 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:18:38 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:46 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 16:19:00 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:55 leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has joined #lisp 16:20:16 -!- nymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 16:20:22 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 16:20:35 nymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has joined #lisp 16:22:50 hitecnologys: What's the problem? 16:23:01 Also H4ns IIRC :) 16:23:12 hu? 16:23:38 hitecnologys needs some help with lparallel... Ok, sorry for highlighting you. 16:24:04 i have not seen any lparallel question 16:24:26 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:48 and i'm just a very light user, so i know only tiny bits of the library. 16:25:19 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:25:46 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 16:26:01 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:51 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 16:27:53 -!- ck [~ck@dslb-188-107-114-214.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:27:55 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:28:06 -!- SanderM [~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:39 naryl: I'm trying to handle condition in my threads but it looks like it only handles it if handler-bind is in thread function itself even if *debug-tasks-p* set to nil. How cam I make it automatically transfer all conditions to upper level if they can't be handled? 16:29:52 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:30:31 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 16:31:51 lkjh [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has joined #lisp 16:32:23 -!- jlongster [~user@c-71-63-14-233.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:32:35 ogamita: thanks: now intersection! should work http://paste.lisp.org/display/137492#5 16:32:38 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:35 -!- bitonic [~user@94.117.135.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:33:53 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 16:34:21 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:51 hitecnologys: That's like the only thing I haven't figured out myself either in lparallel. 16:35:45 i don't quite understand, what is "upper level" in this context? 16:35:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:36:24 H4ns: main thread (spawn)=> some threads. Main thread is upper level for some threads. 16:37:09 pnpuff, will not work if f length is grater then s length, i'm right? 16:37:52 if you want to use bound condition handlers in the main thread, you need to bind handlers in the child threads and then explictly transfer the conditions to the main threads. threads do not share their dynamic context. 16:38:39 -!- lkjh [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has left #lisp 16:38:39 i don't think that lparallel has a mechanism for that, and i'm kind of having a hard time how such a mechanism should look like. 16:38:47 rszeno: Thats not a problem. 16:38:59 pnpuff, sorry, :) if something is not in s doen't matter, ok 16:39:11 H4ns: so, I have to set handler in main thread and handler for each thread which will invoke TRANSFER-ERROR restart? 16:39:14 handling conditions is a different matter, though. it is probably best to discuss this with the author though. 16:39:23 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:39:35 sellout-, true 16:39:43 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host210-219-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:39:48 hitecnologys: handlers are not set, they are bound, and that is what makes things complicated. 16:39:53 pnpuff: Mmmm, arent your consequent and alternative reversed in the inner IF? 16:40:10 H4ns: my brain is about to explode ._. 16:40:41 hitecnologys: i'm preventing that from happening to my head by not thinking it through too deeply :D 16:40:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:40:49 lkjh [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has joined #lisp 16:40:55 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:41:04 H4ns: documentation says there's a mechanism to automatically transfer all error to upper levels but it doesn't work for me http://lparallel.org/handling/ 16:41:21 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.91.129] has joined #lisp 16:41:23 sellout-: I think now... anyway now I'm "testing" the function and seems ok... 16:41:26 hitecnologys: transferring errors works well for me. that is different from binding handlers, though. 16:41:27 How can I reset the state of my program? 16:41:32 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:36 tyrick: restart the lisp, load it 16:41:39 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:43 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:41:51 hmmm 16:41:57 H4ns: it looks like I should just use return codes to save me from becoming vegetable =P 16:42:00 hitecnologys: what's happening is that the condition is handled (unwinding the child thread stack), transfered to the main thread and signalled there. 16:42:03 Posterdati [~antani@host210-219-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:42:07 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:33 hitecnologys: no, you should spend some more time understanding how condition handling works. it is not _that_ complicated, after all. 16:42:49 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:43:49 H4ns: yeah, I know that, conditions are much more flexible than return codes or something. 16:44:10 hitecnologys: read this: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Condition-Handling-2001.html 16:44:27 H4ns: thanks 16:45:09 I've noticed if I do (setq x 4) then (defvar x 1), there isn't away to make x a lexically scoped variable again by just eval (setq x 4) again 16:45:29 tyrick: (setq x 4) does not make x a lexically scoped variable 16:45:44 ah... interesting 16:46:02 pnpuff: Nevermind  I was thinking union *facepalm* 16:46:03 it's not specified what it does 16:46:11 (setq x 4) (defun foo() x) (let ((x 0)) (foo))) 16:46:11 tyrick: let, lambda, defun and the various -bind forms define lexically scoped variables. 16:46:22 that was given as an example of lexical scoping 16:46:31 tyrick: given by whom? 16:46:38 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/463463/dynamic-and-lexical-variables-in-common-lisp 16:46:46 tyrick: someone using questionable pedagogic advice for sure. 16:46:55 12 upvotes =/ 16:46:58 tyrick: maybe you should read a better text to learn. 16:47:06 tyrick: that's bollocks 16:47:10 damnz 16:47:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:47:42 agumonkey [~agu@139.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:38 does stackoverflow have troll voters who upvote confusing answers in programming languages that they don't like? :D 16:49:58 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-209-246.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:00 any recommended web explanations of lexical/dynamic differences? 16:50:13 tyrick: amazon.com 16:50:16 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/variables.html is good 16:50:37 H4ns: it's not even confusing, it's just wrong 16:50:40 tyrick: sorry, i'm old-fashioned. no offense intended. 16:50:51 stassats: i meant to recommend "read a book" 16:50:54 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:51:02 eh, I've read the section of Lexical Variables and Closures, feel like I need a bit more 16:51:05 i retract what i wrote and hereby apologise. 16:51:06 H4ns: i meant about the voters 16:51:07 I'll go through it again 16:51:17 H4ns: and confusing answers 16:51:23 ah, ok :) 16:51:26 tyrick: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node43.html <- this is the best explanation I read 16:51:49 thx 16:52:52 there's even a highly upvoted comment under it with "Your explanation is mostly wrong." emphasized 16:53:23 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:48 sellout-: union! just works... I think isn't wrong... 16:54:41 pnpuff: No, I mean I was reading the code for INTERSECTION!, but thinking it was meant to do a union. 16:54:53 -!- ggherdov [uid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bbytqdztjcsbyzwb] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:55:18 -!- zorkmoid [c2ed8e14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:55:18 -!- NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zfwztsyvltxpsbvw] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:55:24 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 16:55:25 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:51 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-tpjymxartmngjans] has quit [Ping timeout: 274 seconds] 16:56:29 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@176.235.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:43 -!- mal___ [mal@ks24170.kimsufi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 16:56:57 -!- schoppenhauer [~quassel@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:57:09 m4dnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 16:57:38 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 16:57:41 -!- photex [uid2006@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ckztmqjbzphrkjfb] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:57:55 -!- suprahistorical [~nondelive@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Quit: .] 16:58:03 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:58:03 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:58:04 -!- embee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:58:10 -!- pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:58:15 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:25 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-209-246.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:58:25 CrazyEddy [~unindwell@113.52.233.162] has joined #lisp 16:58:26 -!- CrazyEddy [~unindwell@113.52.233.162] has quit [Changing host] 16:58:26 CrazyEddy [~unindwell@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 16:58:32 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 16:59:21 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 16:59:57 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.57.78] has joined #lisp 17:00:09 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:00:49 mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE-216.wireless.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:00:50 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 17:00:52 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:01:00 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:01:03 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 17:01:42 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:02:53 embee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #lisp 17:04:49 Joreji [~thomas@134.61.151.155] has joined #lisp 17:05:25 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:27 pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:06:29 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 17:06:47 josemanuel [~josemanue@154.164.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:06:57 Is the subsetp? function well defined? : http://paste.lisp.org/display/137492#6 17:07:43 schoppenhauer [~quassel@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:07:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.149.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:07:53 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 17:08:22 pnpuff, no length of intersection must be length of s 17:09:05 pnpuff, sorry, i'm idiot today, you defined already, :) 17:09:25 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.91.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:09:47 ...what I could do to make that function more elegant? 17:11:45 maybe you can use a single if and an and operator 17:12:08 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE-216.wireless.gmu.edu] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 17:12:22 or without if 17:12:27 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Quit: bye] 17:13:09 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 17:13:33 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest35741 17:13:48 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 17:14:38 (= (length (intersection! s f)) (length s)) is not same thing? 17:14:41 mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE-216.wireless.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:17:23 -!- Guest35741 [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:18:24 rszeno: (let ((s '(#\u0022 "sun" 1 a)) (f '(a))) (= (length (intersection! s f)) (length s))) => NIL 17:18:40 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:18:50 while (let ((s '(#\u0022 "sun" 1 a)) (f '(a))) (intersection! s f)) => (A) 17:20:37 pnpuff, s is not a subset of f, i'm wrong? 17:20:39 I've changed some things and it seems to work properly, but now it duplicated tasks which I push to queue instead. 17:20:55 Here is the code: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137494 17:20:57 but f is a subset of s 17:21:37 abeaumont [~abeaumont@10.Red-79-155-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:50 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE-216.wireless.gmu.edu] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 17:22:01 rszeno: sure: (let ((s '(#\u0022 "sun" 1 a)) (f '(a))) (subsetp? f s)) => T 17:22:28 -!- Xach_ [~xach@cpe-67-255-229-229.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:22:28 Xach_ [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 17:22:33 -!- Xach_ is now known as Xach 17:23:02 stassats: "it's not specified what it does"  what "it" :) ? 17:23:14 bhyde: i don't remember 17:23:22 :) 17:23:24 rszeno: ...and s is a "superset" of f , so (subsetp? s f) => NIL 17:23:44 hitecnologys: why are you locking the queue, but still using try-pop-queue? 17:24:12 and (second (multiple-value-list x)) == (nth-value 1 x) 17:24:30 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Quit: bye] 17:25:00 pnpuff, (defun supersetp? (s f) (not (subsetp? s f))), :) 17:25:25 i suspect this is wrong, :) 17:25:28 yes 17:25:30 stassats: I don't use try-pop-queue, where do you see it? 17:25:33 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 17:25:56 it says "Pasted by: hitecnologys", was that an imposter? 17:25:58 stassats: oh, I didn't even notice it 17:27:07 stassats: thanks for advice, changed it 17:27:23 and why are you recursing? 17:28:08 stassats: how else could I empty queue? I don't see such function in docs. 17:28:15 in a loop 17:28:31 stassats: oh, that's good idea. 17:28:50 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:28:57 rszeno: maybe better use a function named "cardinality-of" instead os merely use the function "length" since I'm using sets and not lists ... but i don't know... 17:29:03 you won't be trying the lock, even if it's recursive anyway 17:29:29 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:35 and of course, it would be more efficient to have a built-in function 17:30:24 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:36 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:30:36 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 17:30:44 stassats: anyway, I don't use empty-queue in my code, it's just for debug now. What else could be wrong? 17:30:54 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-14-96.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:41 mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE-216.wireless.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:31:47 you don't need PROGN inside loop 17:31:54 pnpuff, agree. but without counting nested level, unfolding i mean 17:32:00 after do 17:32:04 stassats: that was there for debug, I've already removed it. 17:32:18 but even for debug, you don't need it! 17:32:23 So with the bad answer here : http://stackoverflow.com/questions/463463/dynamic-and-lexical-variables-in-common-lisp 17:32:30 (the one with the 12 upvotes) 17:32:36 what exactly is happening there? 17:32:46 stassats: wow, that's nice 17:33:07 why does let not shadow (setq x 3) 17:33:17 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 17:33:21 but it does shadow (defvar x 3) 17:33:32 because defvar declare the variable special 17:34:27 *rszeno* imo too subtle, need to undetsand binding first, :) 17:35:47 hitecnologys: and if you move that until (queue-empty-p/no-lock queue) after the apply, you don't need the finally part 17:36:04 tyrick, http://www.flownet.com/ron/specials.pdf 17:36:15 rszeno: check (type-of (defvar x 3)) vs (type-of (setf x 3)) 17:36:47 and you don't need to destructure the list into (function . arguments) if you will apply them anyway 17:36:50 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:36:53 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has left #lisp 17:36:53 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:41 nothing addresses the problem you're having, i don't even know what the problem is, you haven't pasted any errors/issues 17:38:12 stassats: wait a minute, I'll post it now 17:38:13 ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 17:38:46 pnpuff what about it? 17:39:10 -!- jsnell_ [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:39:17 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:20 and you can actually use try-pop-queue/no-lock in the run-queue lock, without (queue-empty-p/no-lock queue) 17:39:57 rszeno: 17:40:20 like (loop for function-and-args = (try-pop-queue/no-lock queue) while function-and-args do (apply #'submit-task channel function-and-args)) 17:40:22 (class-of (type-of (defvar x 3))) => # 17:40:52 hitecnologys: or even (loop repeat task-count do (apply #'submit-task channel (pop-queue/no-lock queue))) 17:41:10 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 17:41:11 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 17:41:13 rszeno: while (class-of (type-of (setf x 3))) => # 17:41:51 can you stop with this class-of type-of nonsense? 17:42:13 do you even understand what it's telling you? 17:42:24 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298584.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:42:45 rszeno: look at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/variables.html "Dynamic, a.k.a. Special, Variables" 17:42:59 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:03 ok, i will look, :) 17:43:07 pnpuff: can you lay off helping people, you've already shown today that you have no understanding of CL whatsoever 17:43:58 stassats: no, I know nothing... 17:44:03 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE-216.wireless.gmu.edu] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 17:44:17 ... I only need help! 17:44:38 (type-of (setf x 3)) give BIT? as well as saying x is undefined 17:44:42 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc03-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 17:44:50 I'm reading this pdf still thou 17:45:02 bit? that's a wide bit you've got there 17:45:46 should it not return that? 17:45:46 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:45:57 tyrick: type-of on (setf ...) isn't supposed to show anything profound, pnpuff is just fooling around 17:46:01 (setf z x) => x 17:46:03 stassats: pasted error text and backtrace, it looks like error appears somewhere in my condition handler. 17:46:06 (defvar name x) => name 17:46:15 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:38 tyrick: a bit is either 0 or 1, 3 doesn't is more like 2 bits 17:47:03 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 17:47:29 (type-of (setf x 3)) => (INTEGER 0 281474976710655) (: 17:47:48 stassats: I can past the whole code but there are so much garbage in it. 17:48:10 davazp [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:15 <_schulte_> does anyone have suggestions for how to debug a memory leak in sbcl? Is there a way to map dynamic space usage to named variables? 17:48:47 tyrick: (type-of (defvar x 1)) => SYMBOL while (type-of (setf x 1)) => BIT 17:48:54 ... yeah 17:49:27 there's an internal way, sb-vm::map-allocated-objects, it's not easy to use, can crash the whole thing 17:49:28 etc. 17:50:05 <_schulte_> stassats: thanks, I'll look into that 17:50:21 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:50:25 pnpuff: what's with this type-of obsession? it doesn't show anything 17:50:47 (type-of (setf x 'x)) => SYMBOL, where's your type-of now? 17:50:48 pjb``: any news on code updates? 17:51:10 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 17:51:17 stassats: right 17:51:40 (setf x 'x) will even return the same thing as (defvar x 1), while being profoundly different 17:52:21 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 17:52:39 hitecnologys: so, why is (JAMS::REMOVE-CONNECTION NIL) called with nil? 17:53:05 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 17:53:40 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:42 stassats: because my handler called twice. 17:54:01 meaning it was already removed? 17:54:07 stassats: yep 17:54:18 well, that backtrace doesn't show the full story 17:54:28 so, without the full code, nothing can be said 17:54:53 stassats: ok, wait a minute again 17:55:45 i actually found lparallel error handling to get in the way, just used plain threads with bordeaux-threads and queues from lparallel 17:58:24 stassats: it looks like condition passed twice to different handlers because I can see two messages that connection was dropped in my log 17:58:41 stassats: https://github.com/HiTECNOLOGYs/JAMS/blob/multithreading/src/networking.lisp 17:58:53 rme [~rme@50.43.134.220] has joined #lisp 17:59:04 stassats: I didn't found better way to paste it, sorry 18:00:17 afer you handle the condition, what happens then? 18:00:37 it just goes further through the stack, what catches it there? 18:01:04 stassats: it should drop connection with client and remove connection instance and socket from memory but it just goes further, yes 18:01:48 stassats: establish-connection calls process-connection but... I see that I removed this line. 18:02:46 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@154.164.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:03:04 stassats: fixed 18:04:10 stassats: so, establish connection have it's own handler and process-connection have it's own handler because otherwise lparallel throws me into debugger 18:06:45 stassats: ah, I removed handler from established connection too 18:07:21 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 18:07:45 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest44382 18:08:28 i wouldn't use counters and ids for conditions, when you can actually pass the socket 18:08:55 at least it won't go away if signalled twice 18:10:09 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298584.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:10:15 stassats: if I do this I need to let packet handlers access socket what is not good. 18:10:30 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-55.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:11:00 pierpa`` [~user@host126-61-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:11:09 stassats: it ruins the entire idea of isolating packets procession from networking stuff 18:11:25 and how does passing ids help? 18:11:38 id is still a socket, just an indirect one 18:11:49 -!- Guest44382 [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:12:21 stassats: hm, I didn't actually think that processor can get socket by calling function. 18:12:52 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:13 -!- agumonkey [~agu@139.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:13:23 stassats: maybe removing these ids is worth trying, let me check 18:13:37 it would just make things clearer 18:13:55 because, you know what can't solve the problem of too much levels of indirection 18:15:25 antgreen [~green@out-on-234.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 18:15:30 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:15:33 I'm ashamed of my code... 18:15:43 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 18:16:16 I didn't even notice it was that bad. 18:17:07 hitecnologys: being ashmed of your code is a bazillion times better than thinking bad code (which 99% of all code) is good. carry on! 18:18:06 one man once said "first, you're ashamed of your code, then they laugh at you, then you win" 18:18:54 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-192-132-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:19:35 That actually makes me drop all code and rewrite it from ground up, that's why I'm always somewhere behind: when everybody release products I'm still writing stuff and haven't even finished 30% of work. 18:19:47 mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE-216.wireless.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:20:00 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE-216.wireless.gmu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 18:21:01 the goal is to make easy to rewrite code 18:21:24 Yeah, I know, but it's *hard* to achieve. 18:21:47 hitecnologys, one reason could be they ignore quality, worst is better, :) 18:21:54 hitecnologys: by adding another layer of indirection, of course 18:23:44 -!- agspathis [~user@dsl-aauwdr.dyn.edudsl.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:07 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.215.206] has joined #lisp 18:24:12 stassats: that's my worst problem: I always try to create difficulties for myself in case I decide to use internal things which I shouldn't use directly 18:24:17 the goal is to get users, get revenue, hire other people to clean up the mess 18:24:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@134.61.151.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:25:06 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.149.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:25:19 bhyde: that goal isn't interesting at all, process is interesting for me, not the result. 18:25:32 is hunchentoot run through mod_lisp and apache or not? I read somewhere that it was, but http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/ says in "Hunchentoot 1.0.0... mod_lisp support and several other things were removed..." but earlier on the page there's a link to a guide that says "Win32... with Apache/mod_lisp" 18:25:43 imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has joined #lisp 18:26:04 seth, it is standalone 18:26:09 aeth? 18:26:22 okay, so the site that said mod_lisp must have been old. 18:27:02 it's even about TBNL 18:27:08 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 18:27:13 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:27:31 hitecnologys: i learned long ago that most artists love their materials and tools more than the art it's self, immediate gratification works like that :) 18:27:41 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Quit: Ack! Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 18:28:04 aeth: "how to set up Hunchentoot's predecessor" should be a good indication that it is old 18:28:40 yes. 18:29:00 I read somewhere else something about mod_lisp/hunchentoot a few weeks ago... I can't find it now. browser histories are terrible to comb through. 18:29:29 and the "awesome bar" or w/e Firefox brands it is rather arbitrary with which URLs it remembers. 18:29:46 why do you need to comb through such history? 18:30:04 "awesome bar" is a stupid name, granted 18:30:48 i guess "common" lisp is not much better 18:31:26 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:47 stassats: slightly better than "standard lisp" 18:32:09 *rszeno* or 'ordinary lisp 18:32:33 *rszeno* or uncommon 18:32:45 idk, if I had a time machine calling it "practical lisp" would be a funny prank... then the book would be "practical practical lisp" 18:32:49 "practical^2 lisp"? 18:33:10 that's "common" as in "common denominator," not "popular" 18:33:16 Aristocratic Lisp would be far better. 18:33:17 practical portable standard lisp 18:33:27 Lordly Lisp. 18:33:39 The King's Lisp 18:33:50 maybe it should've been a recursive acronym on Lisp 18:33:54 Lisp Real 18:34:12 (Réal, that is) 18:34:18 The Lord of the Lisps 18:34:35 hitecnologys: that's already a euphemism for Satan. 18:34:51 rpg: but it sounds nice 18:35:14 yes, too bad CL was when the Internet was young. 18:35:19 otherwise it could've been an LOL. 18:35:40 Doesn't that stand for "Lots of Lisp"? 18:35:48 LOL would still make a good Ruby on Rails competitor, though. Lisp on... uh... 18:35:55 Or possibly "Lisp Out Loud" 18:36:23 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298584.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:36:24 aeth: that's what Lisp On Lines tried to do 18:36:26 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298584.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:36:27 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:36:47 -!- xrq` is now known as xrq 18:36:49 Lisp Online... an AOL competitor! 18:37:18 lil, lisp is lisp, :) 18:37:26 or lisp 1984, like c does 18:37:32 Lisp on Lisp. 18:37:59 minion: lisp? 18:37:59 lisp: "Lisp in Small Pieces". This book covers Lisp, Scheme and other related dialects, their interpretation, semantics and compilation. To sum it up in a few figures: 500 pages, 11 chapters, 11 interpreters and 2 compilers. 18:38:15 sdemarre [~serge@69.94-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 18:38:30 LOOP - Lisp On lOop Lisp 18:38:54 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-14-96.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:39:06 Lisp On lOop lisP* 18:39:38 nah, LOOP (the macro) is its own programming language. it just has poor indentation/syntax-highlighting support in emacs so people don't notice :-P 18:39:58 LOOPS was an object system for lisp 18:40:05 requiring the writing of "(LOOP" at the start and ")" at the end is still less boiler plate than Java, so it's not that strange of a language. 18:42:29 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-199-75.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:43:03 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-199-75.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:21 the power of a language is given by its community not by the language, i recall i read this somewhere 18:44:46 well, documentation, tutorials, libraries, sane language conventions, etc., are all community-based. 18:45:17 I swear I have not mastered the editor yet... 18:45:19 http://pastie.org/8015991 18:45:20 I mean, if you're the only person using the best language in the world, it's not very useful unless you want to write every single library. 18:45:24 Loop indentation is fine. Just put (loop on its own line, and start every loop statement on its own line 18:45:25 (test x) keeps evaluating to 4 18:45:27 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:45:53 tyrick: defvar doesn't do what you think it does 18:46:00 dlowe: yes, I know, it can only get tripped up if you do a really complicated loop. 18:46:09 tyrick: aren't you following a tutorial? 18:46:16 nice, I was actually wanting to see the effects of doing this inside a function 18:46:17 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:46:20 nope 18:46:23 just playing around 18:46:26 and apparently even then, slime has a patched loop indentation for emacs lisp mode or something, according to last time this was brought up 18:46:34 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 18:46:53 it has, slime-indentation 18:47:06 some people like indentation for conditions 18:47:14 i don't really like that 18:47:25 but still, would like to know why I'm having x increment in (test x) 18:47:37 i normally indent everything to the same column 18:47:51 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:48:19 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 18:48:25 tyrick, try to use sbcl directly, type sbcl at terminal prompt 18:48:27 ITERATE is really a much better replacement for LOOP. Independent of indentation, LOOP's conditional expressions are really a horror. 18:49:06 And LOOP fits very poorly with multiple values. 18:49:24 i don't much of an improvement in iterate, it's better, but not by a long shot 18:49:51 i don't find 18:50:18 tyrick: your (foo) doesn't do anything. You must have incremented x at some previous point 18:50:23 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc03-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:36 (defun foo() (defvar x 0)) doesn't do anything for x I see 18:50:48 and yes! I did increment x at some point in the past... 18:50:51 I like LOOP for a basic, simple collect, kind of like a list comprehension. otherwise, I find DO to be much more Lisp-style. 18:50:53 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:50:56 but can't i just (setq x 3) again? 18:50:59 and reset it to 3 18:51:01 i actually like (or think that i like) loop syntax, keeps it easy to separate between it and the code 18:51:07 tyrick, is not evaluated is only defined using defun 18:51:31 hm... so maybe my problem is redefining functions? 18:51:31 try (foo) 18:51:48 foo give X 18:51:51 i've found a couple of times myself confused by iterate, when i haven't seen the ITER part, but then again, i don't use it myself, so not accustomed to it 18:51:58 tyrick: yes, you can reset it to 3 with STEQ 18:52:02 SETQ, even 18:52:16 -!- hagish [~hagish@p578E08BE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:52:52 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:52:57 dlowe: Ok 18:53:12 phodamentals [~phodament@c-50-143-173-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:17 tyrick: hey 18:53:25 it looks like scheme has a similar DO for iteration. 18:53:29 but still once I reset it... if I C-c C-p (test x) 18:53:33 I still get 4 18:53:34 i'd be happy to take LOOP, add extensibility, better mv, better iteration over hashtables or packages, iteration over sequences, better maximization, and the ability to mix initialization with body 18:53:45 I'm just having trouble with the state flow I think 18:53:58 phodamentals: sup 18:54:31 s/initialization/iteration/ 18:54:36 ggherdov [uid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wuqvsdwtlqelfthj] has joined #lisp 18:54:40 pnpuff_ [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:54:47 agumonkey [~agu@139.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:05 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:55:09 i.e. for x in list while (numberp x) for z = (1+ z) isn't legal 18:55:21 photex [uid2006@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oasmwvageacsyrhm] has joined #lisp 18:55:24 and is such a pain to deal with 18:57:26 -!- phodamentals [~phodament@c-50-143-173-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 18:57:46 and maybe making a library for drop-in replacement of loop is not a bad idea, a fully backwards compatible one, but with new features 18:57:47 -!- pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:58:30 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:47 jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:59:25 NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qdwjmjqjkhwjzjbd] has joined #lisp 19:01:59 josemanuel [~josemanue@95.178.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:03:18 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc07-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 19:05:19 -!- _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:06:27 Okay, I removed all sockets id stuff and now I'm at the point where I started but code looks better. 19:07:27 does only one thread have access to a socket? 19:07:39 I'm experimenting some difficulties in defining the "relative-complement" function (equivalent to "set-difference" function in CL) . My attempt is here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137492#7 , but is a _bad_ attempt so any suggestion is welcome... 19:07:44 -!- pnpuff_ is now known as pnpuff 19:08:46 stassats: actually, there are 4 of them, and this "twice access" error is gone, now it just doesn't handle DROP-CONNECTION condition. 19:09:05 pnpuff: can you describe in plain prose what set-difference does? 19:09:31 a good start is a description of the problem at hand 19:09:32 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-3096455843.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:10:21 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 19:11:04 stassats: it drops connection successfully and even sends data almost successfully (executes handler code - CONNECTION-DROP-HANDLER) but it still throws me into debugger. 19:11:55 if you don't do a non-local exit, the error will eventually end up in the debugger 19:12:04 let s be a set and f a subset of s. The set difference s \ t is the set that contains the elemnts of s which are not elemnts of t. (anyway sets maybe are better referred to with capital letters) 19:12:24 t came out of nowhere! 19:12:26 stassats: and how can I do this exit? 19:12:36 s/t/f/ 19:12:40 (error x) is (signal x) (invoke-debugger), if you make the (signal return), it'll reach invoke-debugger part 19:12:42 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:13:02 hitecnologys: catch, throw, return-from, go 19:13:12 handler-case will wrap them for you 19:13:34 stassats: but what about handler-bind? 19:14:07 you may not want to use handler-bind 19:14:31 Cymew [~user@90-230-84-97-no110.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:03 I'm still interested how this works anyway 19:15:22 pnpuff: let me try "set-difference takes two lists and returns all the elements present in the first list, but not present in the second" 19:15:38 I get some odd sbcl errors, unless I start my newly built sbcl as root. It says "debugger invoked on a SB-C::INPUT-ERROR-IN-COMPILE-FILE in thread 19:15:38 #:" Anyone knows why that is? 19:15:55 don't start it as root! 19:16:19 hitecnologys: as i said, throw, go, return-from 19:16:20 No, I'd like not to. But, I'd also like it to start without dumping me in the debugger! 19:16:30 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 19:16:32 try --no-userinit. Then look at your .sbclrc 19:16:34 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:16:47 see the backtrace 19:17:00 (the "back" command) 19:17:05 stassats: but what if I replace ERROR by signal? 19:17:33 SIGNAL* 19:17:47 hitecnologys: then the code, which signalled it, won't stop 19:18:24 download [~download@dhcp206.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 19:18:51 Ah, 'back' I had totally forgotten. It seems like something is wonky with the quicklisp my .sbclrc tries to load. Thanks a lot for the reminder about the backtrace. 19:18:56 cool, thanks for explanation. 19:18:59 signal just allows some code to run in its context, if that code runs normally, the next statement after signal will be executed 19:19:24 hitecnologys: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/09_a.htm 19:19:55 pnpuff_ [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:20:05 basically signal says "fetch me some code, which purports to handle this condition" 19:20:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:20:12 hitecnologys: condition handlers can have 3 types of actions: "DECLINE", "HANDLE" or "DEFER" 19:20:14 runs it, and it's the end of it 19:20:34 that looks pretty handy 19:20:50 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:51 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:06 oh, i forgot also, beside throw, go and return-from, there's invoke-restart 19:21:19 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.134.220] has left #lisp 19:21:47 stassats: the clhs page also explicitly mentions abort 19:22:56 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:22:59 -!- pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:23:10 tensorpuddin [~tensorpud@99.160.222.239] has joined #lisp 19:23:14 ehu: it's just an example, abort is a function which calls invoke-restart 19:24:03 omg, it works! 19:24:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:25:00 -!- pnpuff_ [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:25:00 I was trying to make this work the whole day and solution was that simple that I don't even fell any excitement. 19:25:08 feel* 19:25:15 ehu: otherwise "user code can call abort at any time and expect something reasonable to happen; exactly what the reasonable thing is may vary somewhat." 19:26:23 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.192.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:26:23 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 19:26:40 lparalell should have restarts of its own 19:27:21 stassats: lparallel have them 19:32:01 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:32:09 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 19:34:14 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 19:35:12 bobbysmith007 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:41 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:45 minion: have you seen Fare lately? 19:40:45 i haven't seen fare lately 19:41:07 minion: can you remind Fare he has a meeting today at 5pm? 19:41:07 5pm: please stop playing with me... i am not a toy 19:41:17 *Xach* saw Fare just two days ago 19:41:43 *stassats* declares Xach a legal representative of minion in Madrid 19:41:51 or is it over already? 19:42:33 For all those "clammering" to search quicklisp system documentation: http://lisp-search.acceleration.net/ is back online and working with an updated index. Also it now has a static html directory, which hopefully means google will also have indexed all these docs at some point. http://lisp-search.acceleration.net/html/index.html There is obviously tons of room for improvement, but alas I have spent too much time on this recently already 19:43:02 don't think i've seen fare on irc at all while he's been at ELS? 19:43:14 hopefully you have another method of contacting him. :) 19:43:30 minion: can you use a phone? 19:43:30 watch out, you'll make krystof angry 19:43:53 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:06 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboh182.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:44:18 bobbysmith007: i am clamoring for buildnode-kml fixes? 19:44:28 stassats: it is over. 19:45:15 Xach: I must have missed the notification... should be fixed in a bit :) 19:46:46 does anyone have a favorite doc generator for lisp? 19:46:53 there's a bunch listed on cliki 19:47:34 p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has joined #lisp 19:48:23 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-220-61.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:48:27 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-207-164.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:43 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:50:52 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:51:45 foom: I usually simply call DESCRIBE from slime, so I... don't care 19:51:50 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 19:55:56 I use a modified version of "docstrings" from Alexandria (I think) which is modified from SBCL. 19:56:19 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:21 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.114.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:13 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:00:25 Wow, cool, client successfully logs in. 20:01:05 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@10.Red-79-155-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:01:36 abeaumont [~abeaumont@10.Red-79-155-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:54 -!- mile-ton47 [~mile-ton4@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:03:44 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 20:03:46 foom: It's never been entirely clear to me whether DOCUMENTATION strings are intended to be reflowed or not. Seems like the spec is a little too vague about what should go into docstrings. 20:05:21 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:10 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 20:06:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-55.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:06:40 mile-ton47 [~mile-ton4@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:51 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:55 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-234.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:09:18 rpg: pictures of cats, can't go wrong there 20:09:23 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abov11.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:09:50 ejbs [~user@5.254.137.11] has joined #lisp 20:10:13 (defun function (x) "" (1+ x)) 20:12:31 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboh182.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:14:55 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:15:24 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:17:45 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:52 "" 20:18:58 sooo many catssss 20:19:10 no wonder the Internet uses Unicode. 20:20:05 ylabidi [~ylabidi@208.85.112.101] has joined #lisp 20:20:17 bobbysmith007: is buildnode-xul obsolete or something? should I just ignore it? it still doesn't build, missing "js-packager.lisp" 20:20:39 man, all my software needs to be updated for unicode6 20:20:41 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 20:21:10 readline gets seriously confused by those characters 20:21:13 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 20:21:17 emacs doesn't like them at all 20:21:26 zsh thinks they're unprintable so it prints them escaped 20:24:18 -!- ylabidi [~ylabidi@208.85.112.101] has left #lisp 20:24:26 bitonic [~user@2.125.98.244] has joined #lisp 20:25:10 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-207-164.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:25:59 konsole's confused by those cats too. it renders them fine, but when you try to select them it treats each as two unknown box characters 20:26:31 and it doesn't paste them properly. :-/ 20:26:37 mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE-216.wireless.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:26:41 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:27:04 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #lisp 20:27:22 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 20:27:27 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:56 PuercoPo` [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.206] has joined #lisp 20:29:57 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE-216.wireless.gmu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 20:30:29 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-192-132-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:33:24 Since DOCUMENTATION is pre-html, there's no obvious way to have documentation strings that contain markup which is treated appropriately by client functions. Could start by having SLIME post-process the return of DOCUMENTATION.... 20:36:49 I'm not sure how pre-html is relevant. there are also old (1980s) formats to export documentation to, such as info or LaTeX. 20:39:35 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-207-164.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:42 lmj` [~lmj`@c-50-163-92-2.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:55 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:36 benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-114-99.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 20:41:12 aeth: True. I don't think there was as huge a motivation to do this before. I have a vague memory of the Symbolics making stuff look nice, but I don't know if it was marked up in the source, or if the system tried to DWIM it. 20:41:39 Is there word on whether the c-l.net mailing list archives will be restored? e.g. alexandria-devel 20:41:45 pre-html is probably relevant because a lot of hardware was still pre-bitmapped... 20:45:25 *rpg* wonders -- is it just his imagination, or is sourceforge just getting weirder and weirder? 20:45:57 rpg: yeah, I think the main issue is that convenient markups like markdown or rst are rather new, web-era stuff. things that look okay as plaintext when you're reading the source, but convert to HTML or whatever if processed. 20:46:28 (I mean, new in terms of popularity. although, counterexample: certain conventions like *this* for bold and _this_ for underline seem rather old) 20:46:41 aeth: agreed. So one could simply use markdown in docstrings and hope that a postprocessor will do something clever with it. 20:46:50 Yeah, thats what I do. 20:47:13 But not having a clear message about what happens with new lines and how to mark paragraph boundaries is a real nuisance. 20:47:51 yeah, I think markdown is kind of the standard now. or, well, the semi-standard. according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightweight_markup_language it's the most widely implemented, but also the most implementation-dependent. 20:48:21 aeth: right, I recall listening to Jeff Atwood talk about the challenges of corner cases in markdown in some podcast. 20:48:31 it's probably the right choice, though, because you can get HTML/PDF/LaTeX/man/info/etc. from it. 20:48:39 even though it's not my personal favorite. 20:49:13 I think major sites are starting to use it, too. I remember [b]BBCode[/b] :-) 20:49:28 Doesn't it kinda default to "flowed", though? How does that line up with the exigencies of source code files? 20:50:19 -!- agumonkey [~agu@139.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:50:24 imo parsing sources and transforming comments in markdown is not so hard 20:50:24 hmmm... 20:50:37 oh, no I'm wrong. It is supposed to be consistent with hard breaks, it says. 20:50:46 I'm not sure. I prefered other formats, and they lost. :-) 20:51:06 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-4d013e62.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:51:21 this is why I'm just going to use plain old s-expressions for my data storage. so I don't need to keep chasing fads and hope I pick the right one (I think the current fad is JSON). 20:51:30 It seems to call for blank lines, though, which could get big in source code. Oh, well. 20:51:55 rpg: I met an NST user @ECLM 20:52:03 hitecnologys: My guess is that you dynamically bound *debug-tasks-p* in the main thread and expected the value to be reflected in worker threads? 20:52:27 fe[nl]ix: hm. To be honest, I have abandoned it myself in favor of the much-simpler FiveAM. 20:52:45 hitecnologys: You need to setf it globally, or use task-handler-bind, or define a context function. 20:52:47 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:01 rpg: that's what I advised, too :) 20:53:05 fe[nl]ix: sorry -- I have to go be a parent for about 45 minutes. I should be back later... I'll explain why I think FiveAM is better then, if you care. 20:53:22 rpg: of course 20:53:34 I'm here 20:53:48 Briefly: compiling your tests is not a good point in the tradeoff space: makes them brittle to redefinition, and you never recover the cycles you spend compiling. 20:53:53 bye for now! 20:53:55 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: rpg] 20:54:06 hm, quicklisp doesn't use https, does it 20:54:44 speaking of documentation, I'm not sure in which language or documentation library I've seen... but I like it when if the first line is blank in a docstring it is ignored. I like having the text line up like the code lines up. 20:55:19 that would be more important if you use something like markdown because if you start with a heading iirc you need to do something fancy on the next line 20:56:48 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:56:53 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:57:16 -!- mile-ton47 [~mile-ton4@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:57:18 Bike: does it really have to, though_ 20:57:42 -!- Corvidiu1 [~cosman246@c-24-143-81-52.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:57:58 -!- joe9_ [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:55 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:04 well it's pretty easy to attack as now, i think, and it would be nice if code i download didn't eat my computer :P 20:59:16 there appears to be one markdown I can find. http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-markdown/ 20:59:19 does anyone use this? 20:59:26 b 20:59:31 joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:50 so it turns out emacs shortcuts don't work in tmux 20:59:51 who knew? 20:59:58 I'm a little OCD with documentation. if I ever get stuck I tend to clean up my existing files and excessively document them before I forget how they work (mostly for Future Me since no one cares about my projects) 21:00:19 Bike: it's an improvement over the old situation, which didn't use HTTPS *and* took download locations from cliki. 21:00:47 obviously. quicklisp is great. just wondering about this. 21:01:32 fortitude: which emacs shortcut doesn't work? 21:01:57 -!- sdemarre [~serge@69.94-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:02:00 the "C-x b" I just tried to use in totally the wrong window 21:02:09 not a tmux shortcoming, just spent too much time in emacs this afternoon.... 21:02:13 ah 21:02:33 fortitude: well, simply write an alternative to tmux that tiles in the emacs style. might be pretty hard to use emacs within it though :-P 21:02:50 mile-ton47 [~mile-ton4@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:03 Bike: I guess it's a bootstrapping problem. 21:03:30 What do you mean? 21:03:49 is there a general rule for whether THE declarations propagate? 21:04:05 fortitude: propagate how? 21:04:11 Fare [~fare@150.Red-83-60-131.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:25 e.g. if I do (defparameter *foo* (the fixnum 5)), do later references to *foo* also need (the fixnum *foo*)? 21:04:59 hmm 21:05:02 Yes, THE only refers to the value. You'd be better off with (declaim (type fixnum *foo*)) 21:05:17 Bike: I was just going to say that declaim was probably the right thing to do there 21:05:53 Since you could do (defparameter *foo* (the fixnum 5)) (setf *foo* 'not-a-fixnum) and that's legal and defined. 21:06:11 But it's not with the type decl attached to *foo*. 21:06:49 I see what you mean, though isn't it undefined whether a declare/declaim acts as an assertion? 21:07:17 Yeah. after the declaim, (setf *foo* 'not-a-fixnum) has undefined results, not a defined error. 21:07:53 Bike: I mean you probably need to download CL+SSL before you can portably do SSL, which you can only download once you have downloaded quicklisp 21:08:15 ehu: well quicklisp already has an http client and gunzipper... 21:08:58 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:08:58 right. but that's a much smaller "problem space" 21:09:13 -!- lkjh [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:12:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.206] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:10 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.215.206] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:14:41 -!- Fare [~fare@150.Red-83-60-131.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:27 kimochiwarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has joined #lisp 21:16:28 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.215.206] has joined #lisp 21:16:35 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 242 seconds] 21:17:58 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-199-75.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:18:32 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-199-75.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:57 -!- davazp [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:19:56 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:20:40 -!- mile-ton47 [~mile-ton4@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:22:23 ... gosh, newLisp seems horrid 21:23:51 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 21:24:16 lmj`: I set it globally and use task-handler-bind. 21:24:32 Denommus, you don't like something "It is especially well-suited for applications in AI, simulation, natural language processing, big data, machine learning and statistics."? :) 21:24:35 lmj`: sorry for delay, I was afk for a while. 21:25:21 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:25:26 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:26:37 rszeno: I don't like something that tries to solve non-existent problems, like cdr returning a cons cell, or using dynamic binding instead of lexical binding 21:26:54 Joreji__ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:26:57 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:27:03 Joreji___ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:27:29 Clojure must be the best "modern" Lisp, even with its own set of problems 21:27:35 -!- nymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:27:53 (I'm not including Common Lisp and Scheme, of course. Only Arc, Clojure and NewLisp) 21:27:57 maybe newlisp have some good things but is a lot of advertising, :) 21:28:39 I think these two bad things would be enough for me not liking it 21:28:58 maybe i miss something but i didn't seen its special connection with ai 21:29:01 seriously? (cons 1 2) results in a list, not a pair? Why? 21:29:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:29:53 i never look too deep inside newlisp, :) 21:30:24 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:31:20 nug700 [~nug700@174-19-143-236.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:26 mal___ [mal@ks24170.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 21:31:32 rszeno: neither did I. I decided to give it a look today and was profoundly disappointed 21:32:23 me too, i did same thing with same result few weeks ago, :) 21:32:59 The gc is supposedly... fascinating 21:33:25 I've done good work today, now I need to go and get some sleep. Goodbye everyone! 21:33:38 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.62.60] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 21:33:53 nighty! 21:34:21 MY EYES! OH GOSH, MY EYES! (cons 'x nil) => (x nil) 21:34:25 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-209-246.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:35:44 no need for melodrama 21:36:24 Bike: ok, I know I was melodramatic. Sorry 21:36:29 -!- Cymew [~user@90-230-84-97-no110.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:11 still, why making such design decisions? 21:37:33 Common Lisp has some crazy design decisions, and yet newLisp corrects what didn't need to be corrected 21:38:12 davazp [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:16 karbak [~kar@194.sub-70-192-86.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 21:39:29 i could be wrong but probably missing dotted pair could be explained by the way it use lambda, see http://www.newlisp.org/index.cgi?page=Differences_to_Other_LISPs 21:39:49 mile-ton47 [~mile-ton4@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:50 what i don't like is that i don't trust more then 50% of what it say 21:40:55 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:41:57 -!- PuercoPo` [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:42:50 for example: "Files can be read, written and appended, programs can be loaded or saved using the same code for local or network access. This facilitates writing distributed applications." 21:43:47 what sens make "distrubuted" in this paragraph? 21:44:52 doesn't matter anyway, :) 21:45:07 rszeno: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_computing 21:46:35 i don't see the connection, :) 21:46:35 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.207] has joined #lisp 21:47:10 neither do I. I can also do all this in CL, it doesn't make a CL program that does any of these distributed 21:47:37 I'm trying to get command-line arguments working. With this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137499 loaded as "sbcl foo --load cmd-line-args.lisp" I get a list ("foo"). How do I get the same behaviour, but with an executable image. i.e. I want to do "core-file foo" at the command line and then get ("foo") 21:48:01 please, don't discuss newlisp here 21:48:13 stassats: ok, I'll shut up 21:48:16 +1 21:49:01 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:49:29 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:49:43 samebchase: are you going to use ONLY sbcl? Or are you going to use some other implementation, too? 21:49:53 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:50:10 Denommus: for now, I want to see how it works on sbcl 21:50:35 My FORMAT function (ECL's FORMAT function hosted in my CL compiler) is putting quotes around output and I can't find the switch to turn it off: (format t "~A ~A" "Hi" "There") --> "Hi" "There" 21:50:35 I want the second form to be executed when the image is run 21:50:50 samebchase: what's the problem? 21:50:52 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 21:50:55 samebchase: the *posix-argv* special variable stores a list with all the arguments passed to the command line 21:51:13 Does anyone know if there is a dynamic variable that controls output of quotes around string arguments? 21:51:17 drmeister: ~a should bind *print-escape* to nil 21:51:50 samebchase: even if you're running an image 21:53:14 Ok, maybe it's a deeper problem, *print-escape* doesn't effect it. (let ((*print-escape* nil)) (format t "~A ~A" "Stop" "quoting")) --> "Stop" "quoting" 21:53:35 minion: memo for hitecnologys: you only need to do one of those; either set *debug-tasks-p* globally to nil or control it locally with (task-handler-bind ((error #'invoke-transfer-error)) ...) 21:53:35 Remembered. I'll tell hitecnologys when he/she/it next speaks. 21:53:40 drmeister: how about (write "hi" :escape nil) 21:54:04 That should have gotten rid of the quotes - right? 21:54:05 [6502] [5ea59ec2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.165.158.194] has joined #lisp 21:54:08 Let me check that. 21:54:10 samebchase: you can define entrypoint functions, look up how to do that 21:54:18 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 21:54:23 drmeister: that should print w/o quotes, yeah 21:54:23 meiji11 [~user@75.158.41.148] has joined #lisp 21:54:33 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-114-99.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 21:54:42 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:54:45 ejbs: okay. that sounds promising 21:54:49 drmeister: ~a shouldn't be affected 21:54:58 it unconditionally binds it to NIL 21:55:10 either it binds it to t, or the printer is broken 21:55:20 (write "a" :escape nil) shall print a 21:55:48 I haven't exposed WRITE yet - gotta get around to that. 21:56:01 you have format but not write? 21:56:10 Bike: Yeah - funny huh? 21:56:13 drmeister: do you plan to have thread support in your CL? 21:57:03 The FORMAT code uses a lot of WRITE-STRING and WRITE-CHAR - it doesn't use WRITE directly. 21:57:25 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:57:27 do you have princ? 21:57:35 well considering ~a is basically princ, which is basically write... 21:57:47 Or rather, it only uses WRITE for EXPAND-FORMAT-INTEGER and INTERPRET-FORMAT-INTEGER 21:58:07 Yeah, I have PRINC. 21:59:04 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:00:13 I might have FORMAT running on top of non-canonical implementations of WRITE-XXX. I think that's where my problem is - guess what just got bumped way up the todo list. 22:00:21 does princ work? 22:00:23 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abov11.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:00:46 (princ "Hi there") --> "Hi there" 22:00:51 "no" 22:01:12 yeah that's wrong 22:01:20 Ah, that's not right. 22:01:21 Ok, problem found. 22:01:32 Thanks. 22:01:41 benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-114-99.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 22:01:45 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.207] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:47 do you have broken special varialbles? are you using a wrong package for *print-escape*? 22:02:44 drmeister: I ask because if you do plan on thread support then you should do it now, otherwise you may never get it right. 22:03:03 Which is the effect I see in some CLs. 22:03:15 ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.206] has joined #lisp 22:05:21 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:07:43 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755987.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:07:55 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:11:42 hey, anyone got any news on that mocl thing? sounded really cool when I first heard about it last November but I haven't heard anything about it since 22:12:56 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-114-99.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 22:13:48 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:42 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 22:15:10 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:15:33 http://paste.lisp.org/display/137499#1 so now I'm able to get arguments at load-time, but how do I get them at the time of running the image? 22:16:33 PuercoPo` [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 22:16:37 lemonodor [~jwiseman@cpe-75-83-152-209.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:39 ejbs: i think they had a lisp meeting presentation recently 22:17:53 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:17:55 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:18:08 -!- scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has left #lisp 22:18:31 -!- blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:19:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:21:02 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:42 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:51 Bike, ah, interesting. 22:21:59 Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has joined #lisp 22:22:07 -!- lemonodor [~jwiseman@cpe-75-83-152-209.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 22:23:59 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 22:25:10 Is there some way of like "refreshing" the argument list on each run of the image, instead of using the inital args? 22:25:25 nug700_ [~nug700@174-19-143-187.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:33 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:25:37 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:26:12 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 22:26:27 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@174-19-143-187.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:26:28 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:26:31 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 22:26:33 -!- setmeaway2 [stemearay@119.201.52.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:26:46 nug700_ [~nug700@174-19-143-187.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:34 _nug700_ [~nug700@174-19-143-187.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:11 samebchase: what does the docs say? a link to it would be cool 22:28:43 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-19-143-236.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:28:51 samebchase: first, --core core should come first 22:29:11 -!- [6502] [5ea59ec2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.165.158.194] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:29:18 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 22:29:19 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:29:23 -!- PuercoPo` [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:30:29 ejbs: c-l-args isn't really documented 22:30:31 samebchase: then, if it still gives you trouble, I'd suggest to use sb-ext:*posix-argv* 22:31:01 okay I'll try that 22:31:01 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@174-19-143-187.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:32:09 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 22:32:37 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:18 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:22 adeht: yay. that works. 22:35:58 [1]JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 22:36:28 -!- karbak [~kar@194.sub-70-192-86.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:36:35 -!- dlind [~dlind@h-184-111.a322.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:36 -!- j0ni__ [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:36 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:36 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-158-252.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:36 -!- loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:36 -!- lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:36 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:36 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:36 -!- naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:36 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:36 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:36 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:36 -!- aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:36 -!- scode_ [~scode@pollux.scode.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:36 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:36 -!- ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:36 -!- quackv4 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:36 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:36:37 PuercoPo` [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 22:37:47 working version: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137499#2 22:38:03 nug700 [~nug700@174-19-143-187.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:49 flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 22:38:49 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 22:38:49 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 22:38:55 dlind [~dlind@h-184-111.a322.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 22:39:41 naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has joined #lisp 22:40:34 nug700_ [~nug700@174-19-129-100.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:49 -!- PuercoPo` [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:41:29 cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-158-252.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:41:40 -!- _nug700_ [~nug700@174-19-143-187.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:42:08 samebchase: oh, sorry, I thought you had problems with *posix-argv*, sorry 22:42:55 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-19-143-187.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:43:30 ejbs: no problem 22:43:59 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 22:45:37 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dcooper8] 22:46:03 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:01 -!- download [~download@dhcp206.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:47:57 gensym` [~user@189.62.37.227] has joined #lisp 22:48:15 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 22:48:15 j0ni__ [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:15 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 22:48:15 loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has joined #lisp 22:48:15 lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has joined #lisp 22:48:15 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 22:48:15 jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:15 aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has joined #lisp 22:48:15 scode_ [~scode@pollux.scode.org] has joined #lisp 22:48:15 arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 22:48:15 ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has joined #lisp 22:48:15 quackv4 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has joined #lisp 22:49:01 nug700 [~nug700@174-19-129-100.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:40 http://paste.lisp.org/display/137499#3 I've succesfully got command-line-args (trivially) working. I've been creating image using this script. How should it be done differently? 22:52:43 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@174-19-129-100.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:53:56 -!- davazp [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:13 samebchase: the form is read before it is evaluated 22:54:51 okay 22:54:56 samebchase: when it is read, CLI is interned in the CL-USER package 22:55:39 okay 22:55:57 samebchase: I prefer to have a lisp file that generates the core and use sbcl --load make-core.lisp 22:56:03 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-199-75.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:36 samebchase: you don't need to put everything in a progn, or use multiple --eval arguments 22:56:57 that's a lot easier. I can just write a simple scripe with "sbcl --load make-core.lisp" 22:57:49 samebchase: for some things you may want to use --script rather than saving a core anyway 22:57:54 paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:58:31 hmm 22:58:45 samebchase: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Shebang-Scripts 23:00:39 --script in useful as hell 23:00:51 I never touched Python or Ruby again after I learned how to use it 23:01:02 davazp [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:31 -!- j0ni__ [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:01:31 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:01:31 -!- loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:01:31 -!- lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:01:31 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:01:31 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:01:32 -!- aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:01:32 -!- scode_ [~scode@pollux.scode.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:01:32 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:01:32 -!- ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:01:32 -!- quackv4 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:01:32 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:02:16 Finally. cmd-line-args working as expected. 23:02:45 ejbs` [~user@5.254.137.11] has joined #lisp 23:02:50 nug700_ [~nug700@174-19-129-100.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:52 -!- ejbs [~user@5.254.137.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:03:25 -!- davazp [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:51 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 23:04:51 j0ni__ [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:51 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 23:04:51 loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has joined #lisp 23:04:51 lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has joined #lisp 23:04:51 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 23:04:51 jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:51 aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has joined #lisp 23:04:51 scode_ [~scode@pollux.scode.org] has joined #lisp 23:04:51 arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 23:04:51 ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has joined #lisp 23:04:51 quackv4 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has joined #lisp 23:04:54 Thanks everyone. :-) 23:05:10 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-19-129-100.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 242 seconds] 23:05:39 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 23:06:12 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 23:06:23 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-43-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:10:41 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 23:10:57 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 23:12:35 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:58 -!- asedeno [asedeno@nat/google/x-gpnbrnaqadaxwimm] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:13:54 -!- lmj` [~lmj`@c-50-163-92-2.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:20:04 -!- Joreji___ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:21:52 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:08 if I want to use PUT and DELETE in Hunchentoot, I'll have to emulate them, like Rails did before browsers had support for them? 23:22:20 ejbs`` [~user@h-30-249.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 23:23:44 Are you looking for confirmation? 23:23:49 That is not an accurate statement. 23:24:05 I'm looking to know the answer 23:24:16 Hunchentoot's webpage only talks about GET and POST 23:24:28 but to make a REST application, I'd also need PUT and DELETE 23:24:31 -!- ejbs` [~user@5.254.137.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:24:50 so, is this possible out-of-the-box, or would I have to emulate it? 23:25:07 -!- bitonic [~user@2.125.98.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:25:44 Denommus: you can dispatch on the value of REQUEST-METHOD pretty easily. 23:26:28 I don't know if it works with the easy-handler system, though. I haven't used that before. 23:27:47 what would you recommend me to develop a web app? 23:27:55 xk 23:27:58 -!- ejbs`` [~user@h-30-249.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has left #lisp 23:28:16 ejbs`` [~user@h-30-249.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 23:28:43 Denommus: I use hunchentoot and the dispatch-table system. 23:29:40 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.215.206] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:29:59 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:30:15 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:20 -!- ejbs`` is now known as ejbs 23:31:07 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-207-164.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:32:33 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-38-181.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:11 normanrichards [~normanric@201.237.201.118] has joined #lisp 23:33:31 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@201.237.201.118] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:35:57 Gah! The CL printer is a pretty big chunk of code. The ECL C code dedicated to printing weighs in at about 2600 lines of code. 23:36:37 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:38:09 Denommus: see https://github.com/edicl/cl-webdav/blob/master/handlers.lisp#L32 for hunchentoot handling a rich set of HTTP methods 23:38:22 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 23:38:39 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 23:39:18 bhyde: thanks! 23:39:39 Oh well, "in for a penny - in for a pound". 23:39:46 drmeister: it takes a lot to print (let ...) correctly :P 23:40:25 *jasom* would like to see large swaths of lisp implemented in lisp 23:40:46 It seems like every lisp implementation has its own pretty-printer 23:40:51 drmeister: the tech report was only 40 pages :) ftp://publications.ai.mit.edu/ai-publications/pdf/AIM-1102.pdf 23:41:14 jasom: well they're usually written in lisp 23:41:35 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 23:42:15 Bike: even when they are, aren't they pretty non-portable? 23:42:17 drmeister: take a look at http://www.merl.com/publications/TR1993-017/ chapter 1.. then you'll understand :) 23:43:05 jasom: i suspect they all evolved from the original one out of MIT; but I haven't looked at the insides of one in years 23:44:27 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-121-162.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:02 jasom: i think the pretty printers are semi-portable, it gets weird with format though 23:46:10 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:47:30 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:47:58 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@174-19-129-100.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:48:47 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 23:49:01 Is WRITE the function with the most arguments (16) in Common Lisp? 23:49:13 Are there any functions with higher arity than WRITE? 23:51:17 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:41 gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-153-155.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:19 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:52:36 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.113.202] has joined #lisp 23:53:40 drmeister: yes :) 23:53:58 (let ((m 0)) (do-external-symbols (s 'cl) (let ((len (length (ccl:arglist s)))) (alexandria:maxf m len) (when (< 17 len) (format t "~&~S ~D" s len)))) m) 23:54:13 one will have to find your implementation's arglist function 23:55:19 byhde: Awesome - thanks. I know my implementation didn't have more than 10 before WRITE because that's where exposed C++ function arity was capped - I just upped it to 16. 23:55:43 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:56:09 ccl's write: (ccl::object &key :stream :escape :radix :base :circle :pretty :level :length :case :gensym :array :readably :right-margin :miser-width :lines :pprint-dispatch :structure :simple-vector :simple-bit-vector :string-length) 23:57:01 it's compile-file has a meager 17 args 23:58:46 bhyde beat me to it 23:58:48 http://paste.lisp.org/display/137501