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[~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:33:26 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 01:34:42 can i suppress the output of clisp? http://paste.lisp.org/display/137400 01:35:25 i just want the result of (m:div618 4.49 8.29) 01:36:13 -!- hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:40:37 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:41:02 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:41:33 kennyd [~kennyd@dh207-62-141.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 01:42:15 zRecursive, first, do you mean the result as in the return value? 01:42:20 or whatever else gets printed? 01:43:47 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:43:55 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 01:44:20 zRecursive, (let ((*standard-output* (make-broadcast-stream))) (m:div618 4.49 8.29)) 01:44:57 actually you need to wrap that LET in whatever is loading the quicklisp 01:45:33 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.215.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:46:40 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 01:47:09 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-203-12.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55:47 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:58:05 -!- atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58:20 atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has joined #lisp 01:59:09 Quadrescence: it works , thx 02:00:34 yw 02:01:22 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@86.125.231.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:33 -!- nug700 [~nug700@184-98-122-78.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:05:36 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 02:05:59 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-122-78.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:51 paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:07:55 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:04 now just ;; Loading file /home/sw2wolf/.clisprc.lisp ...;; Loaded file /home/sw2wolf/.clisprc.lisp left ? 02:09:46 others are discarded into the broadcast-stream 02:10:08 nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-113-118.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:17 -!- hiredman [~hiredman@67-135-45-49.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:11:13 hiredman [~hiredman@67-135-45-49.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:38 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 02:12:13 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has joined #lisp 02:13:06 -!- nug700 [~nug700@184-98-122-78.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:16:05 clisp's man page reveals -q, --quiet and --silent. 02:18:21 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-220-112.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:52 all those switches donot work, it still displayed ";; Loading ... ;; Loaded..." 02:19:09 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-164-170-20.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:20:34 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 02:20:40 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-36-230.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:23:33 -!- gmcastil [~user@LTTNCOMADS0AE07.mcleodusa.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:24:39 echo-area [~user@123.120.245.173] has joined #lisp 02:25:05 gavilan2 [~Gavilan2@198.144.156.126] has joined #lisp 02:32:44 zRecursive: have you set *load-verbose* to NIL? 02:35:09 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:35:13 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-48-164-128.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:36:05 After (setf *load-verbose* nil), just left 'Loading file /home/sw2wolf/.clisprc.lisp ...' 02:36:23 no ';; Loaded ...' 02:38:31 -!- atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has quit [Quit: I hate to say this, but you guys are talking about computer programming (why that, of all things!), and I am bored, so I am going to do more exciting things like cooking food for tomorrow and cleaning the house.] 02:39:49 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 02:39:55 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [Client Quit] 02:40:14 another idea: the CLisp man page says that "clisp -q -q" (two times -q) should suppress all "Loading" and "Loaded" messages 02:40:47 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 02:43:23 edgar-rft, what an odd option 02:44:30 yes, extremely odd, but with me here it works 02:45:03 LiamH [~none@pool-173-48-164-128.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:41 *edgar-rft* thinks that CLisp is a mess 02:53:00 Is there a way to declare "Everything I'm going to allocate in this function will be garbage upon exit"? 02:53:33 jasom: dynamic-extent? 02:54:27 Bike: In this case it's a tree, so I do'nt know that will work 02:55:14 you mean you don't want the parts you didn't allocate in the function to be garbage? 02:55:37 Bike: I mean I create a tree, and fill it up, and the whole tree is garbage when I exit 02:55:53 oh, well, dynamic-extent means what it does recursively, I think. 02:57:03 but dynamic extent is usually concretely realized as making something stack allocated, which might not be what you want if you're generating lots of garbage 02:57:15 edgar-rft: `clisp -q -q ...` works great, thx 02:58:37 Quadrescence: I was just testing out a radix-tree implementation by using it as a sort; the sort runs really fast, but it generates O(n) garbage, which you'll have to pay for later 02:58:42 -!- wag [~waglin@li206-225.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 02:58:44 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:59:53 jasom: or not, depending on the GC algorithm and its schedule. 03:00:37 pkhuong: how would you not have to pay for garbage later (other than just exiting)? 03:00:52 and this is specifically sbcl 03:01:28 with a gc algorithm with a runtime that is proportional to the amount of live data in the generation being GCed... like cheney's two-space algorithm that SBCL uses. 03:02:41 *jasom* is going to have to read up on that algorithm; he can't imagine how you could collect garbage in a way not proportional to the amount of garbage collected 03:03:43 *jasom* reads; oh, that's actually really simple 03:05:23 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.64.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:07:08 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@111-223-126-200.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:08:06 gko_ [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:11 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:09:35 JohnThePreacher [~JohnThePr@c-66-30-162-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:53 Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand! 03:10:47 Matthew 3:@? 03:10:50 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 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#lisp 05:11:02 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-197-102.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:14:19 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:14:39 p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has joined #lisp 05:16:19 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-220-112.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:19:37 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@59.40.164.173] has joined #lisp 05:19:54 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-220-112.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:56 -!- alch___ [~michael@216.155.131.69] has quit [Quit: alch___] 05:23:24 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:24:18 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.88.19.210] has joined #lisp 05:26:07 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:27:42 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has joined #lisp 05:30:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-45-240.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:30:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:31:48 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:35:46 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 05:36:48 -!- meiji11 [~user@75.158.41.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:36:49 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:52 hey 05:37:50 does anyone know where the files are? http://sourceforge.net/projects/cl-asr/ 05:38:01 hi, anyone interested on lisp-in-summer-project? It's June 1st today, but I can't find 'sign up' button 05:38:48 link? 05:39:53 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-108-48-74-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 05:40:06 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:40:23 http://lispinsummerprojects.org/ 05:40:31 Sounds cool if I can get a shirt 05:43:15 anyone find it? 05:43:30 it says sign up on June 1st 05:44:23 It's still May 31 in some parts of the world 05:44:43 Barely even the 1st in New York where it seems to be organized 05:45:20 gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has joined #lisp 05:45:29 oops~ 05:45:33 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 05:45:36 ;-) 05:46:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-45-240.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:48:10 I wonder if working on a project like jscl would count 05:48:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-45-240.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:50:42 you may read FAQ 05:51:13 IIRC, it seems OK, but you should read FAQ first 05:57:55 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.148.136] has joined #lisp 05:58:05 gmcastil [~user@70-59-29-55.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:06 Just looked it over, seems like I could. Kinda wish this was around last summer when I spent most of it working on image board software. 06:02:25 -!- guiambros [~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:02:30 nostoi [~nostoi@156.Red-79-154-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-45-240.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:05:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-45-240.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:06:21 naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has joined #lisp 06:07:46 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 06:08:50 http://lispinsummerprojects.org/ideas 06:08:56 does anyone know where the files are? http://sourceforge.net/projects/cl-asr/ 06:09:54 maybe you should ask the project head there. 06:10:09 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@dh207-62-141.xnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:12:28 :/ 06:14:34 kennyd [~kennyd@dh207-62-141.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 06:16:45 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@dh207-62-141.xnet.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:17:40 SeanTAllen [uid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ibpxvsmpgbohmuah] has joined #lisp 06:20:49 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@156.Red-79-154-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Seite geschlossen] 06:21:04 kennyd [~kennyd@dh207-62-141.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 06:25:29 cdidd [~cdidd@128-69-229-251.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:31:43 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:33:37 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:37:01 doomchild [~doomchild@c-68-52-19-51.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:37:06 alch___ [~michael@64.237.37.118] has joined #lisp 06:38:55 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:39:13 -!- zvrba_ is now known as zvrba 06:39:37 -!- zvrba [96456@diamant.ifi.uio.no] has left #lisp 06:42:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-45-240.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:44:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-45-240.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:44:48 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:50:12 -!- theos is now known as Guest20842 06:50:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-45-240.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:50:33 -!- Guest20842 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:51:07 -!- doomchild [~doomchild@c-68-52-19-51.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:51:40 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 06:54:51 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 06:56:38 PuercoPop [~user@cpe-24-193-207-225.si.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:57:01 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest49312 07:01:10 -!- Guest49312 [~user@cpe-24-193-207-225.si.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:01:44 mrSpec [~Spec@76.Red-83-40-100.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@76.Red-83-40-100.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:01:44 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:02:15 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-203-29-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 07:02:38 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:07:35 -!- bolcselo [~x@pool-71-163-45-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: When my dad asks me to help out around the house I'm just like, psh! Morality is relative man! Don't oppress me with your herd mentality!] 07:08:55 -!- gmcastil [~user@70-59-29-55.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:10:45 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.148.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:11:57 -!- alch___ [~michael@64.237.37.118] has quit [Quit: alch___] 07:12:52 agumonkey [~agu@52.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:38 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:30 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:29:33 brendal [~user@cpe-107-9-36-17.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:29:42 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:30:08 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:31:07 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:31:35 Hey, guys. I'm writing a program for world peace. How do I do it without a global state? 07:32:46 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.42.243] has joined #lisp 07:33:52 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p549C5525.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:34:16 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:34:34 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 07:40:30 functionally 07:43:01 -!- theos is now known as Guest74619 07:43:29 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:44:03 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has left #lisp 07:44:24 ehu [~ehu@79.Red-88-26-248.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:33 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:45:37 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-69-229-251.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:45:58 -!- Guest74619 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:47:36 cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-83-197.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 07:47:58 jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:56:38 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.63.82] has joined #lisp 07:57:13 -!- ehu [~ehu@79.Red-88-26-248.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:59:31 -!- atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:00:24 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:00:42 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-106.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:01:22 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.42.243] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:01:40 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.249.67] has joined #lisp 08:03:32 nilsi_ [~nilsi@host-95-199-203-12.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:03:41 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.88.19.210] has left #lisp 08:04:11 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: EvW] 08:04:27 hmm...world peace? 08:05:54 Kenjin_ [~kenjin@2.80.249.67] has joined #lisp 08:05:55 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.249.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:06:33 easy-iPad [~easyipad@61.Red-2-137-44.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:03 atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has joined #lisp 08:07:58 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 08:15:45 -!- Kenjin_ [~kenjin@2.80.249.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:15:55 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:16:27 *nightfly* wonders if maybe 'world peace' and 'without a "global" state' was supposed to be some sort joke that didn't pan out. 08:18:26 *rszeno* depend on scope and binding type 08:18:50 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-83-197.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:19:04 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:23:03 cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-212-77.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:24:20 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012478.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:58 Ragnaroek_ [~chatzilla@p549C5571.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:28:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-106.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:29:50 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p549C5525.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:29:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-106.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:29:53 -!- Ragnaroek_ is now known as Ragnaroek 08:30:43 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:32:35 so, i'm writing a regex compiler for fun, and i just realized i need a computed goto 08:32:46 for maximum efficiency, at least :) 08:35:07 computed gotos don't scream "efficiency" 08:36:10 well it's probably better than a function call or switch table 08:37:18 -!- easy-iPad [~easyipad@61.Red-2-137-44.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Outta here?] 08:38:15 which are the other two options 08:38:17 callback, dispatch and inline? 08:39:24 -!- brendal [~user@cpe-107-9-36-17.woh.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 08:39:53 Ragnaroek_ [~chatzilla@p549C5417.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:40:02 ehu [~ehu@195.Red-88-5-174.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:03 well, I'm keeping track of multiple pathways through the regex 08:40:49 each state carries a variable pointing to where it's currently at in the tagbody 08:41:05 anyway, I haven't quite implemented it that far anyway 08:41:44 clynbech [~clynbech@0x3e2c8722.mobile.telia.dk] has joined #lisp 08:41:57 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p549C5571.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:42:03 -!- Ragnaroek_ is now known as Ragnaroek 08:42:59 Odyessus [~odyessus@61.Red-2-137-44.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:43:38 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Quit: l'unica verità.. è la morte stessa!] 08:45:11 As an aside: Are regex-like patterns ever used outside of text searching? 08:48:45 could be, finaly a regex is a dfa 08:50:38 bitonic 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[~none@pool-173-48-164-128.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:43 -!- gko_ [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 12:46:59 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85764e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 12:47:07 -!- SeanTAllen [uid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ibpxvsmpgbohmuah] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 12:50:12 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:32 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107-1-159-131-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:50:34 szkrabik [~szkrabik@178.182.79.115.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 12:51:05 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 12:51:54 PuercoPop [~user@cpe-24-193-207-225.si.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:52:07 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:53:00 bhyde: seems supposed to be available, (according to xach (according to fare)) 12:53:04 davazp` [~user@213.37.200.68.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 12:53:06 leoc [~leoc.git@p5DDBA113.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:53:24 I think you need to use asdf version thing 12:53:48 (depends-on ) has a a thing where you specify the minimum version, so you can say depends on asdf >2 12:53:55 or use #+asdf3 12:54:02 i don't think you want anything to depends-on asdf 12:54:09 -!- davazp [~user@213.37.200.68.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:54:11 what is the problem with :depends-on (:uiop) ? 12:54:13 i think the only risk is the unlikely scenario that you manage to get your code spun up absent asdf (and yeah the version thing) 12:54:21 uiop isn't in quicklisp 12:54:27 really? 12:54:37 it's inside of asdf 12:54:40 is there a May quicklisp now? 12:54:50 personally I think #-asdf3 (error "this project requires asdf3") and forget it 12:54:53 uioip definitely should be available in QL 12:55:02 maxm: +1 12:55:05 -!- davazp` [~user@213.37.200.68.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-106.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:55:30 in general you want to keep asdf dependencies out of applications 12:55:57 depending on asdf functionality at runtime inside an application is not the intended use of asdf 12:56:01 i'd like to keep asdf as far as possible from my code 12:56:10 that is what uiop is for 12:56:24 if uioip is missing from quicklisp then that is a different problem which needs to be solved 12:56:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-106.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:57:14 distilling uiop out of quick lisp creates entertaining version skew challenges for the asdf maintainer 12:57:46 good thing there's no asdf maintainers anymore 12:58:28 stassats`: what do you mean? 12:58:40 did I miss Fare saying he gives up on asdf? 12:58:47 -!- Watcher7|off [~w@silly.tabby.cat] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:59:12 you did 12:59:26 what Faré is signaling is that he is moving on to new york, new things, new new new :) 12:59:34 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-48-164-128.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:59:51 well xvcb etc? don't think anyone will move on.. Someone will just patch asdf :-) 13:00:03 Watcher7|off [~w@silly.tabby.cat] has joined #lisp 13:00:14 Fare didn't say he is giving up asdf maintenance 13:00:34 he said he's likely not going to be using CL in his day job for the time being 13:00:42 and he said for years that asdf is in maintaine-only mode, and everyone should be switching to other things, but released 2 new major version since he started saying that 13:00:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-106.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:01:46 where did he say that "everyone should be switching to other things" ? 13:02:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-106.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:02:53 its one of these things "i'm quite certain its his position, but not sure where I first heard of it".. Basically he said several times about various ASDF problems (this is won't fix, using xvcb is the correct answer).. Mostly about load order stuff 13:03:35 in the meantime he's been saying that a lot of xvcb concepts have ended up being implemented in asdf 13:03:55 -!- igorww is now known as igorw 13:04:01 well we'll just ask him once he back on the channel 13:04:20 in the meantime, (ql:quickload :uiop) certainly works for me 13:04:27 then again, i'm still on April quicklisp 13:04:30 is there a May quicklisp? 13:04:46 gendl: cool, i wonder why my quick lisp is so venerable 13:05:37 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@dh207-62-141.xnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:05:53 even so i can't image a practical scenario anymore where I don't have asdf loaded, and hence uiop 13:06:11 Yuuhi [benni@pD9F98C6A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:06:29 the scenario is when you are preparing a monofasl for application deployment 13:06:42 a monofasl leading up to a Lisp image 13:06:48 for production deployment 13:06:56 and you don't want to be including asdf in a production runtime distro 13:07:07 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:07:28 for several reasons 13:07:48 i can certainly image that scenario, just can't imagine "I" will want that :) 13:07:53 btw I'm putting finishing touches on resurrecting swank-snapshot 13:08:54 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-156-167.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:09:05 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-177-27.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:09:38 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85764e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:12 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 13:11:40 davazp [~user@213.37.200.68.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 13:13:21 LiamH [~none@pool-173-48-164-128.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-106.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:17:57 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-48-164-128.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:18:33 kenanb [~user@unaffiliated/kenanb] has joined #lisp 13:18:40 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-24-173-184-38.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:51 (ql:upgrade-dist "quick lisp"), or the likely equivalent update-all-dists, is kind of frighteningly amazing 13:18:52 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 13:19:55 alch___ [~michael@em119-72-193-220.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:20:00 -!- alch___ [~michael@em119-72-193-220.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:17 alch___ [~michael@209.222.18.59] has joined #lisp 13:25:20 clynbech [~clynbech@0133300649.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 13:25:23 joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:38 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@12.231.120.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:27:39 LiamH [~none@pool-173-48-164-128.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:35 -!- alch___ [~michael@209.222.18.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:30:27 -!- PuercoPop [~user@cpe-24-193-207-225.si.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:30:57 alch___ [~michael@68-233-247-240.static.hvvc.us] has joined #lisp 13:33:05 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 13:33:58 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:08 -!- szkrabik [~szkrabik@178.182.79.115.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:26 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:36:37 ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.100] has joined #lisp 13:40:09 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-24-173-184-38.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 13:42:54 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:55 maxm: are you using this in your swank-snapshot  https://github.com/fare/asdf/blob/master/uiop/image.lisp 13:45:20 hmm doh, have not seen that one 13:46:25 but just dumping image is no problem 13:46:44 its getting swank/slime to behave, so that checkpointing does not interrupt your workflow 13:46:53 -!- atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has quit [Quit: Sitting in front of a computer 20 hours a day is bad for my health, so I am reducing it to 19. (Or maybe not.)] 13:47:23 maxm: :) 13:48:20 CL-USER> (ql:update-dist "quicklisp") 13:48:20 You already have the latest version of "quicklisp": 2013-04-20. 13:48:21 NIL 13:48:32 so apparently there is no May quicklisp. 13:48:33 its kind of orthogonal to that code, my swank-snapshot fixes have a protocol for starting/restarting threads, so that you can pretty much M-x slime-snapshot just-got-foo-working.dump RET, and later if when you screwed up, M-x slime-restore-snapshot just-got-foo-working.dump 13:48:45 and it works without interrupting REPL 13:49:07 which is a relief for me, because I have more cleaning up of gendl which I want to get into the next QL release... 13:49:25 maxm: I'm afraid I'll mark any bug you report for SBCL as invalid, unless you explicitly say that the issue is reproducible without that hack. 13:49:33 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-203-29-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 13:49:35 maxm, given that the slime connections are threads that just makes my brain hurt  :) 13:50:05 maxm: that sounds really convenient 13:50:06 pkhuong: you mean reproducible without blocking signals? 13:50:25 i find myself avoiding dumping images more than i should, just because of the hassle of having to do it from a terminal without threads 13:50:33 and outside the context of slime 13:51:51 normanrichards [~normanric@12.231.120.253] has joined #lisp 13:52:33 for production images it's not quite as much of an issue because those should be done based on loading a well-known monofasl or set of fasls anyway, not just from some arbitrary state of the image while doing development 13:55:55 -!- davazp [~user@213.37.200.68.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:59:01 -!- ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:59:11 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85764e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 13:59:40 -!- clynbech [~clynbech@0133300649.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:00:20 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:46 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 14:00:49 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:00:50 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@12.231.120.253] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 14:01:38 dbushenko [~dim@178.121.43.128] has joined #lisp 14:01:39 -!- dbushenko [~dim@178.121.43.128] has left #lisp 14:01:43 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:02 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 14:02:24 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@host-95-199-199-75.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:53 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 14:03:12 pkhuong: in case you don't notice it there, I posted paste of very minimal test case http://paste.lisp.org/display/137402 14:03:20 nilsi_ [~nilsi@host-95-199-199-75.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:03:54 "that hack" referered to the hack you'd described one minute earlier, around 9:47 EDT. 14:04:45 *maxm* had not had 2nd coffee yet, and I'm completely confused 14:05:44 atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has joined #lisp 14:06:21 as far as I see I was talking about making Slime's contrib/slime-snapshot work, if I accedintelly SBCL not allowing fork() with multiple-threads as a bug, I did not meant too. Its a limitation but my hack is for Slime, not for SBCL 14:07:11 ok I got it 14:08:22 pkhuong: you were saying that if I submit any SBCL bug, from the restored image, that you will assume its because of the image restoration? I wonder why, I don't do anything contriversial. I kill all slime threads, wait for them to finish, then run image dump in the "main thread", then start all threads back up. 14:08:39 pkhuong: (sb-ext:gc :full t) passes fine in new image 14:09:35 but fair enough anyway. My bug reports usually tested pretty well, with multiple restarts and stuff :-) 14:10:56 -!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:11:08 aborting threads that are executing code you don't control is a bad idea. Even if you do control the code, it's a recipe for hard to detect bugs. 14:12:08 pkhuong: well don't fault me for testing robustness.. Yes in perfect world threads die on their own, but at least with testing, I know where to look now, if I have unexplained lockup 14:12:39 s/threads die on their own/threads have some signaling mechanism to terminate cleanly on their own/ 14:13:43 pkhuong: btw there is no mechanism in SBCL, to ignore Ctrl-C, without smashing C stack 14:13:56 I don't think you understand me. If you don't control the code, then it's a bad idea. If you do control the code and think your code is kill-safe, it's still a recipe for heisenbugs. 14:14:13 'continue restart is established after the initial (signal c) 14:15:21 I understand perfectly well, I usually don't kill my own threads, but I can't control all teh libraries i use, which do. (slime uses kill-thread all the time), various thread pool libraries too 14:16:15 p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has joined #lisp 14:16:29 about Ctrl-C I lied, SBCL does provide mechanism, but would be nice to use restart, instead of your own signal handler 14:17:33 axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:52 -!- nightfly [~sage@sagenite.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:19:18 *maxm* had learned of a new cool unicode character today "Subject:  A new Stanford study on Lumosity" 14:21:02 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:05 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:21:24 ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.100] has joined #lisp 14:21:47 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 14:22:13 davazp [~user@213.37.200.68.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 14:26:35 szkrabik [~szkrabik@178.182.79.115.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 14:30:48 PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-244-102.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:12 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 14:37:28 so, um, this is going to sound stupid. But does anyone know when the Saturday dinner at ECLM is? 14:38:33 *stassats`* heard there's #eclm 14:40:24 thank you! Also I have remembered that I did get an e-mail about it 14:41:07 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85764e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:11 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-48-164-128.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:48:29 -!- davazp [~user@213.37.200.68.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:49 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 14:51:10 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:51:27 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:55:45 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:35 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:43 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:01:25 -!- ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:03:28 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05:31 jmnoz [~jmn@unaffiliated/setre] has joined #lisp 15:05:32 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@host-95-199-199-75.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:57 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:38 normanrichards [~normanric@12.231.120.253] has joined #lisp 15:16:01 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@12.231.120.253] has joined #lisp 15:17:13 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-21-139.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:17:38 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@12.231.120.253] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 15:19:56 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:12 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:20:57 guiambros [~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has joined #lisp 15:22:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:24:40 nan- [~user@46.197.112.126] has joined #lisp 15:25:36 samskulls [~samskulls@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:58 alch____ [~michael@em117-55-68-23.emobile.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 15:26:52 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-251.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:46 nan_ [~user@46.197.112.126] has joined #lisp 15:28:46 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:28:53 -!- nan- [~user@46.197.112.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:29:27 -!- alch___ [~michael@68-233-247-240.static.hvvc.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:29:28 -!- alch____ is now known as alch___ 15:29:38 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@c-24-218-27-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:29 Guest58367 [~song@218.104.231.38] has joined #lisp 15:31:43 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85764e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 15:32:34 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-21-139.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 15:33:18 pierpa`` [~user@host126-61-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:34:37 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-251.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:34:50 LiamH [~none@pool-173-48-164-128.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:04 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:44 ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.28] has joined #lisp 15:41:40 sometimes i get lots of "deleting unreachable code" notes, is this a sign that i am doing something wrong? 15:43:04 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:44:09 -!- ehu [~ehu@195.Red-88-5-174.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:44:58 normanrichards [~normanric@12.231.120.253] has joined #lisp 15:46:14 usually. you probably have a form that's guaranteed to cause an error somewhere before the ones being marked as unreachable 15:46:25 -!- szkrabik [~szkrabik@178.182.79.115.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:41 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.148.136] has joined #lisp 15:47:22 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 15:48:30 -!- samskulls [~samskulls@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:48:59 samskulls [~samskulls@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:14 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:49:25 the dinner is at 21:00pm in the tryp ambassador 15:49:27 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 15:51:34 arrdem [~reid@ip68-231-200-129.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:10 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@c-24-218-27-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:51 jsnell: thanks 15:55:20 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@c-24-218-27-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:33 pierpa [~user@host126-61-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:55:57 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:58:07 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:47 -!- Guest58367 [~song@218.104.231.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:58:49 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@c-24-218-27-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:43 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:18 rszeno [~rszeno@86.125.231.3] has joined #lisp 16:05:54 p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has joined #lisp 16:07:35 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@12.231.120.253] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 16:08:19 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:09:15 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has quit [Client Quit] 16:11:30 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@c-24-218-27-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:43 nightfly [~sage@sagenite.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:35 hiato [~hiato@196-215-175-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:16:48 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@12.231.120.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:17:38 -!- jmnoz [~jmn@unaffiliated/setre] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:19:42 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-48-164-128.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:19:52 normanrichards [~normanric@12.231.120.253] has joined #lisp 16:22:36 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@12.231.120.253] has joined #lisp 16:25:06 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:31 -!- PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-244-102.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:26:39 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@12.231.120.253] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 16:26:46 PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-244-102.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:02 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest42668 16:28:44 -!- Guest42668 is now known as PuercoPop` 16:30:19 jmnoz [~jmn@unaffiliated/setre] has joined #lisp 16:34:43 -!- jmnoz [~jmn@unaffiliated/setre] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:35:59 -!- PuercoPop` is now known as PuercoPop 16:36:26 -!- namtsui` [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:45 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:42 nilsi_ [~nilsi@host-95-199-199-75.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 16:42:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-220-112.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:43:53 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - 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I'm mostly thinking performance wise 17:50:09 -!- pnpuff [~WangoTang@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:47 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abog102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 17:51:01 i don't want to misinform, but once heard about an interpreter for sbcl 17:51:08 do you have :sb-eval inside *features*? 17:51:13 that might be it 17:51:42 AeroNotix [~xeno@abog102.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:51:46 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:51:46 ejbs: you can easily measure it 17:52:01 you also need sb-ext:*evaluator-mode* 17:52:35 youlysse` [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:52:41 of course, if you need to EVAL/COMPILE often, and in the main loop, performance goes down the drain anyway 17:53:04 but performance's overrated, as is portability ;) 17:53:07 sthalik: I'm not saying that there is a performance difference, just wondering really. Bike: Oh, yeah, that's set on :COMPILE so I guess it uses the compiler 17:53:40 stassats`: I guess so, was mostly wondering if someone had a hunch anyway 17:53:52 ejbs: compilation speed vs execution speed 17:54:14 ejbs: it's the same by default 17:54:35 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:54:46 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:59 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 17:55:15 thing is, if you need to eval often aside from indirectly due to interative development, and ask questions about it, you're probably doing somehting wrong already 17:55:54 as such, there's little point in correct answer to the wrong question 17:56:02 -!- schoppenhauer [~quassel@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 17:56:19 schoppenhauer [~quassel@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:56:42 nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-121-212.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:28 -!- youlysse` [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:58:36 sthalik: It's more about doing runtime compilation of functions, tho' 17:58:39 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85764e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:50 -!- yesminister [~mariner@adsl-108-196-185-91.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:00:12 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-19-137-21.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:01:05 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 18:01:52 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-122-177.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:02 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-121-212.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:14:53 -!- PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-244-102.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:16:13 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298250.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:18:00 pnpuff [~flutter@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 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[~eoinmorga@99-150-244-106.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:44 Can anybody help me with this error? I can't figure out why the usual format for defining an expression doesn't work. http://pastebin.com/qup6qD4K 19:04:58 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05:05 eoin_: try #scheme 19:05:32 eoin_: it's probably because you wrapped the body in parens, though. 19:05:54 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 19:06:57 pnpuff [~l@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:07:29 don't I have to do that because it includes a combination with the division operator? 19:10:36 eoin_: just get right of the inner paren wrapping the defines 19:11:37 wrapping the whole body actually 19:13:04 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:13:56 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 19:14:05 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-62-242.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 19:14:15 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-62-242.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Changing host] 19:14:15 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 19:14:25 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:18 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-251.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 19:17:18 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:18:32 Thra11 [~Thra11@146.112.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:07 -!- hiato [~hiato@196-215-175-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:20:37 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@12.231.120.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:20:44 -!- brendal [~user@cpe-107-9-36-17.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:21:44 hiato [~hiato@196-215-175-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:22:44 -!- Yuuhi [benni@pD9F98C6A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:26:00 LiamH [~none@pool-173-48-164-128.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:03 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:26:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:26:45 is there any reason eq takes only 2 but = takes many args? 19:27:29 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@12.231.120.253] has joined #lisp 19:27:41 you get used to var-arg sweetness then eq shoots you from back! 19:27:56 -!- ggherdov [uid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wngpofmpwlxgjtiy] has quit [Changing host] 19:27:56 ggherdov [uid11402@unaffiliated/ggherdov] has joined #lisp 19:27:56 -!- ggherdov [uid11402@unaffiliated/ggherdov] has quit [Changing host] 19:27:56 ggherdov [uid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wngpofmpwlxgjtiy] has joined #lisp 19:27:57 variable arguments is slow 19:29:55 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298250.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:30:13 well true, at least 1 or 2 comparison slow? but i'd expect numerical comparison would be as important. then again = compares all kind of numeric and comparing some of them is very expensive (rational) 19:30:45 if passed as a higher order functions, it has a less of a chance to get optimized 19:31:12 and eq* are used all over the place as higher order functions 19:31:26 hmm right 19:31:30 and when do you want to compare three things? 19:31:35 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:32:00 say like (eq a b :some-key) 19:32:38 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:39 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:36:50 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:36:58 szkrabik [~szkrabik@178.182.79.115.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 19:37:33 dtm [~dtm@adsl-69-110-14-67.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:30 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 19:39:45 -!- dtm [~dtm@adsl-69-110-14-67.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:45:11 -!- pierpa [~user@host126-61-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:11 -!- pierpa`` [~user@host126-61-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:53 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:00 nan_: Exy is a functional form and is true if x EQ y (where EQ is the logical equality operator/function). ":some-key" is no needed. 19:46:05 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:46:12 pierpa [~user@host126-61-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:46:16 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:41 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298250.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:48:09 pnpuff: (defun eq* (a b &key (key (function identity))) (eq (funcall key a) (funcall key b))) 19:48:17 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:48:21 (eq* '(1 2 3) '(1 3 2) :key 'car) 19:48:54 *stassats`* waits until the question will be distorted even further 19:49:47 stassats`: let the river flow... be quiet 19:49:48 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:49:58 if you say so 19:51:02 <|3b|> pnpuff: the ":some-key" part is sort of important if the idea is to determine if x and y are EQ to :some-key 19:52:11 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298250.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:52:52 |3b|: pnpuff is just using some associative engine to form messages, and it clearly doesn't always produce good results 19:52:55 -!- szkrabik [~szkrabik@178.182.79.115.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:53:31 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:54:14 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 19:57:09 but is eq* the logical equality? The logival values are two... (stassats` thanks for your patience.. you're waited me!!, but i have some doubts to clarify with or without you:) 19:57:20 *logical 19:59:42 eq* <--> EQ? 20:02:24 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85764e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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22:30:14 hi. i recently started learning lisp and i've gotten through the first 2 chapters of norvig's book and i really really like lisp. i've also solved a few project euler projects with it. but i don't understand what its main use is. i feel that for c it is systems programming and java for writing application across operating systems but i don't know what the goal of lisp is. 22:30:44 it's general purpose, like every other language 22:31:20 but not all languages are equal. i don't understand why it isn't used more. 22:32:19 imu96: Being kickass mostly ;) 22:33:04 imu96: Also, it's mostly political and stuff... Like, the explanation isn't simple. The only way to make it more popular as far as I know is to write awesome programs with it 22:34:05 ejbs: okay. so it's not some flaw in the language that i'll learn about waaay later on and be like "that's why it's not used for a lot!!!" 22:35:25 huangho [~guest@177.201.173.1] has joined #lisp 22:35:36 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85764e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:29 imu96: Oh, yeah, no. I mean, of course Common Lisp isn't a perfect language but no language is, and fortunately Common Lisp has given the developer many tools to make the language suck less :-) (macros, reader macros, CLOS & MOP and so on) 22:37:57 -!- huangho [~guest@177.201.173.1] has quit [Client Quit] 22:39:49 by the way, is there a major difference between sbcl and ansi common lisp? 22:40:45 imu96: SBCL implements ANSI Common Lisp and is (I believe) fully compliant with the standard. It has its own extensions to the language, such as sockets, threads, gray streams and an extensible SEQUENCE class 22:42:01 ejbs: and gnu common lisp also implements ANSI i'm guessing? 22:42:34 imu96: Yeah, but I don't think you should use GNU Common Lisp, use CLisp instead 22:42:51 ah, and i understand why lisp isn't popular now. just came across the jane austen metaphor by paul graham. clever 22:43:06 why is that? 22:43:30 what is the difference between clisp and gnu common lisp? 22:43:44 different implementations 22:44:20 imu96: Yeah, I dunno *why* GNU Common Lisp isn't recommended anymore, it just is (though I guess you can find more info about it elsewhere) 22:44:29 okay 22:44:42 Also, what pg says isn't the whole truth, but it's a start. 22:45:49 yeah 22:46:04 i 22:46:38 i'm currently using slime in emacs for sbcl. is there a way i can swap between different implementations of common lisp? 22:46:49 or is that something i should take to the emacs channel? 22:46:59 imu96: it's in the slime manual 22:47:06 oh 22:47:07 okay 22:47:09 sorry 22:47:37 anyway 22:47:50 imu96: Don't worry, I don't think Bike was trying to be dismissive. We just can't know everything from the top of our heads and reading the manual is always a good idea ;-) 22:47:51 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:48:45 thanks for all your help. you've been great! here is a cookie *amazingly baked chocolate chip cookie* 22:48:46 thanks 22:48:47 bye 22:48:47 i meant the manual will explain it better than me, yes 22:48:48 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:05 What a nice newbie 22:50:32 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-251.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:50:46 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 22:50:55 normanrichards [~normanric@12.231.120.253] has joined #lisp 22:51:41 gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:53:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:54:03 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@host-95-199-199-75.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:20 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@12.231.120.253] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 22:56:31 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@12.231.120.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:56:42 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-251.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:13 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:57:30 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 22:57:42 gmcastil [~user@LTTNCOMADS0AE07.mcleodusa.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:11 -!- gmcastil [~user@LTTNCOMADS0AE07.mcleodusa.net] has left #lisp 22:59:10 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@146.112.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:59:19 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-251.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:00:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:44 slyrus [~chatzilla@23-25-20-209-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:29 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-251.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:01 -!- tiglog [~topeak@123.116.66.29] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:05:27 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:48 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85764e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 23:10:51 scabby [~scabby@87-194-145-210.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:11:04 (evening) 23:11:11 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:11:23 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012478.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:51 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 23:21:56 agumonkey [~agu@52.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:09 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:23:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:25:52 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-251.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:26:01 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 23:27:54 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:29:29 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:08 hiato [~hiato@196-215-175-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:30:14 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:56 Hey all, I'm struggling with what is probably some kind of closure issue at heart. Why is it that (seft (apply #'aref array '(coords..) val) works but (defun my-ref (array coords) (apply #'aref array coords)) followed by (setf (my-ref array coords) val) fails telling me that the function my-ref is undefined? 23:34:07 What I would like to do is, in essence, pass some kind of pointer to that particular value so that I can manipulate it as, in general, extracting it may be non-trivial 23:35:16 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:36:48 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@23-25-20-209-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:38:32 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 23:39:37 hiato: setf needs a setf function, it can't figure it out just from your function 23:39:44 hiato: to setf my-ref you need to make it SETFable 23:39:45 hiato: it tells yoU (setf my-ref) is undefined, i imagine 23:39:52 Bike: :P 23:42:40 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 23:43:43 Aha, ok, I see. Let me check the spec, thanks for the tip 23:44:25 (defun (setf my-ref ...) ...) 23:45:15 -!- agumonkey [~agu@52.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:45:51 hiato: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11457071/defining-setf-expanders-in-common-lisp 23:45:53 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:36 aha, thank you all :) 23:46:42 Good night! 23:46:44 -!- ejbs [~user@5.254.139.15] has left #lisp 23:49:09 Hmm, so why do the arguments that pertain to setf get listed first? 23:49:19 You mean the new value? 23:49:22 Yep 23:49:40 If it was last it would be inconvenient when you have &optional and &rest and so on. 23:49:48 fair point 23:51:28 Now what would be the difference between (defun (setf foo) ...) and (defsetf ...) with appropriate pipeworks? 23:51:53 defsetf establishes a setf expander, (setf foo) just lets the default expansion work 23:52:50 ah, ok, I think I'm beginning to see. Heh, there really is a rather overwhelmingly large amount of stuff here that I never thought would be present, but I see why it's necessary. 23:53:50 gar, and now if wrap this up in a let it doesn't work again. (let ((val (aref ..)) (setf val foo)) 23:54:09 you seem to be confused about what variables are 23:54:11 I assume this is because let is translated to a lambda and so the scope isn't right 23:54:26 when you bind var to the result of a function call it doesn't somehow remember that 23:54:42 so I am confused. 23:54:56 I take it then that (setf (aref ..) ..) is some sort of special form 23:55:08 it's a macro 23:55:09 I was under the impression that aref returned some type of pointer 23:55:12 no 23:55:12 duh! 23:55:19 ok, now it all makes sense 23:55:22 aref is just a function, it just returns a value 23:55:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:55:49 if you bound a variable to a value in an array in C would you expect changing that binding to change the array? of course not. same idea. 23:57:14 Right, right. Yeah, for some reason I really thought it was pointers. It was the only way I could rationalise how setf 'knew' about aref. 23:57:19 then I remembered, macros 23:57:42 try (macroexpand-1 '(setf (aref ...) ...)) 23:58:19 nooooo 23:58:22 that is too cool! 23:59:06 what is this %ASET thing though, some dangerous internal function? 23:59:36 well, macro has to expand to something 23:59:50 -!- atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:55 hiato: yep