00:00:32 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 00:02:26 knob [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:31 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-206-237.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:07:02 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-207-10-139-148.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:08:12 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-45-160.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:41 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:36 LiamH [~none@96.231.225.69] has joined #lisp 00:19:00 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:19:14 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:39 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-207-10-139-148.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 00:23:49 jenia [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:24:06 erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:25:01 -!- agumonkey [~agu@97.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:27:22 Wow, someone bought my star lambda stickers! 00:28:52 well, I'm definitely not using sb-ext:wait-for correctly... and I can't find any references to the term "deadline" outside of that part of the sbcl manual. There isn't any mention of it in the hyperspec (in so far as browser text search could tell me). 00:28:53 but 00:29:06 I *did* achieve a new level of swankery 00:30:33 I think that the term might be "with-deadline", but I'm not certain about that. 00:31:28 not with-timeout? 00:31:48 is there an inspector in the REPL? 00:32:02 something akin to pythons help(), and dir()} 00:32:03 photex: (INSPECT ), or use M-x slime-inspect 00:32:05 ? 00:32:08 boom! 00:32:33 adeht: No, WITH-TIMEOUT uses SIGALARM and does things asynchronously, which means that it CANNOT be made a safe operation. 00:33:34 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 00:33:45 hrm.. well I don't appear to have either of them 00:33:46 nyef: I see.. it seems broken at the moment btw? 00:33:52 well, I have sb-ext:with-timeout 00:34:05 but I'm not using it correctly 00:34:16 because it just waits for (read-line) 00:34:23 I'm honestly not sure what's what with the deadline system, but I know that the timeout system is broken. 00:34:41 I found the trivial timeout package 00:34:51 and it worked... 00:35:17 photex: there's sb-sys:with-deadline.. apropos is your friend 00:35:35 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-64-86.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 00:35:45 sb-sys is a private package, so technically you shouldn't use it, or rely on anything in it to stay the same. 00:36:03 But if it provides the only interface that does what you need, do what you have to. 00:36:06 whoohoo apropos! 00:36:11 thanks adeht 00:37:30 photex: sure.. and you can easy write your own better-looking apropos too using apropos-list 00:37:37 *easily 00:40:00 Hrm, having the same problem in both instances now 00:40:02 Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:40:14 (sb-ext:with-deadline (:seconds 1) '(read-line)) 00:40:22 this is apparently not like elisp ;) 00:40:25 nyef: so if with-timeout is broken, why is it still there?.. and in sb-ext which is public.. 00:40:45 adeht: Because we have an explicit deprecation policy. 00:40:56 photex: Why quote (read-line) ? 00:41:04 nyef: but I mean it's *broken* broken 00:41:19 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.26.107] has joined #lisp 00:41:22 nyef_: well... if I don't quote it, it gets evaluated 00:41:27 which blocks 00:41:34 making the timeout useless 00:41:44 nyef: as in, signaling a type-error error 00:41:52 adeht: Okay, that's neat. File a bug? 00:42:06 photex: Odd... it SHOULD work... 00:42:14 nyef: can you try it? maybe it's just my system 00:42:23 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:42:33 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:43:24 Xach: I think I still see a convention (and only one). Lower case directory names separated by dashes? 00:43:28 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.26.107] has quit [Client Quit] 00:43:40 How odd. 00:43:44 -!- Quadresce_ is now known as Quadrescence 00:43:47 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.209.35] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:45:09 -!- stokachu [~stokachu@ajscg.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 00:45:12 Aethaeryn: that practice is pretty prevalent, but there are a few exceptions, like McCLIM 00:45:43 I think that it might be something to do with either the standard input being a TTY or not being set as non-blocking. 00:45:54 (sb-ext:wait-for (read-line) :timeout 1) also never signals a deadline 00:46:10 Yes, I also see a few java-style "com.example..." style. 00:46:26 photex: Here's a test for you: (sb-sys:with-deadline (:seconds 1) (read-line)), wait two seconds, then hit enter. 00:46:40 stokachu [~stokachu@ajscg.com] has joined #lisp 00:46:59 As I said earlier, I'm not exactly familiar with the whole deadline system. 00:47:47 nyef_: ah, that returns NIL afterall 00:47:57 so I'm being tricked by the repl 00:48:33 You've got a few things going on that could be messing things up. 00:48:43 And at this point all I can do is wish you luck. 00:48:54 hooray! 00:48:59 :) 00:49:50 nyef: it seems like the timer implementation does not convert the universal time to unix time? 00:50:39 adeht: I have NO IDEA. I really don't pay much attention to this part of the code anymore. 00:52:00 (Right now I'm quite well buried in the guts of ROOM, which is all memory layouts, type tags, pointer manipulations, page tables, and striving mightily to not cons at all.) 00:52:13 Snamich [~Snamich@netblock-68-183-229-245.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:18 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:53:20 ok I'll have to mess around a bit later I think. For now it's time to head home. But I think a solution will be found by starting over without some of my previous assumptions as to the best way to structure this thing. What works in Python and C is probably not always the best place to start with Lisp I'm starting to realize. 00:53:43 Ah, the first stage of enlightenment! 00:54:13 Safe travels. 00:54:18 cheer! 00:57:13 -!- ikki [~ikki@177.224.209.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:59:17 Ah, good, I'm saved from having to set up a redirect repository and breaking old links. Github's web interface isn't case sensitive so going from "Foobar" to "foobar" doesn't affect the old links. 00:59:26 So I guess I can follow the lowercase directory name convention after all. 01:01:27 -!- deveux [~deveux@74.Red-83-45-150.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:03:07 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.217.160.78] has joined #lisp 01:06:03 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 01:06:46 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-183-200.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:10:57 -!- arpunk` [~user@190.84.40.17] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:05 joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:16 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.63.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:13:37 ah.. it occurred because I had a timer with (get-universal-time) as expiration time.. which I created by mistake. after an expired (good) timer is run, the next one (which would be that evil timer) is checked, and bang, you get an error. 01:14:47 ikki [~ikki@187.208.209.187] has joined #lisp 01:14:59 seems a good idea to check that the expiration time isn't huge in schedule-timer 01:16:08 arpunk` [~user@190.84.40.17] has joined #lisp 01:18:16 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:57 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:21:39 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 01:24:13 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.209.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:26:28 ikki [~ikki@187.208.209.187] has joined #lisp 01:27:33 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:35:40 -!- joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:43 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 01:40:32 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:40:39 KDr2 [~KDr2@123.122.120.102] has joined #lisp 01:45:06 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:45:14 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 01:46:04 sesam123 [~sesam123@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:38 can i ask why arguments are not evaluated lazily when passed to functions .. if they were, doesn't it mean that functions could replace macros? 01:47:29 no. macros eagerly receive the source text. 01:47:33 -!- jenia [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:47:39 a lazily computed value is still a value, not text. 01:47:41 -!- arpunk` [~user@190.84.40.17] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:27 macros don't deal with text 01:48:53 it's parsed, obviously, but you know what i mean 01:50:09 so if they are parsed .. then isn't that the same as the unevaluated forms passed to a fn? 01:50:38 yes. 01:50:51 But that's not what laziness is. 01:51:31 laziness = calculate only when necessary 01:51:43 so in case of forms .. run them only when the value is needed 01:52:09 Yes but with macros you receive the actual forms. To get their value you'd have to evaluate them. 01:52:26 arpunk` [~user@190.84.40.17] has joined #lisp 01:52:51 e.g., if you have a macro foo, and have (foo (bar baz)) in your code, the macrofunction receives the cons (bar . (baz . nil)), not something that is what (bar baz) would evaluate to. 01:53:06 sesam123: (i) a lazy function does not receive source forms (ii) a function that receives sources forms and deals with them is called an fexpr (iii) lisp macros are nicer than fexprs 01:54:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:54:40 sesam123: You could replace _some_ macros with functions if CL had lazy semantics, but lazy semantics have other trade-offs (EG, you dont get a stack trace). 01:55:26 sesam123: But note that Haskell (which is lazy by default) still implements if/then/else as syntax rather than a function. 01:57:11 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:57:20 -!- arpunk` is now known as arpunk 01:59:24 okay thx for the explanation 01:59:55 -!- seangrove [~user@c-24-5-81-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:00:01 sesam123: I think Haskell did that for clarity. Agda has a richer operator definition, where you could define if_then_else_, and the underscores are the places arguments go. With that kind of syntax, perhaps Haskell would have made if/then/else a function. 02:00:19 if you had a lazy bar, and (bar (1+ 8)) say, there'd be no way within bar to determine that its argument is a call to 1+. 02:01:33 and haskell isn't actually lazy, just non-strict... laziness being the most obvious implementation of that, probably 02:01:53 Bike: the argument would just get evaled when bar uses it 02:02:14 if bar does not use it that form is not evaled 02:02:17 Yes. It has no access to the form. 02:03:03 does it want to? 02:03:12 If it's a macro. 02:03:42 solution 1. have a syntax that just gets the unevaluated arg 02:03:44 For example if I have (my-let ((a 9)) some code here) I want to control the evaluation some, have ((a 9)) be treated as a set of bindings rather than a function call. 02:03:55 sesam123: But many macros destructure their arguments  lazy semantics would not help at all in those cases. Basic things like IF, AND, etc. (macros that _only_ care about conditional evaluation) could be replaced by lazy functions. 02:04:05 solution 2. if the data structure itself is the value then pass '(1+ 8) 02:04:18 have a syntax that just gets the unevaluated arg <-- a macro! 02:04:41 sesam123: If lazy semantics replaced macros, there would be no Template Haskell. 02:05:06 Bike: yeah nice example 02:05:33 If you're interested in different evaluation semantics in Lisp maybe you'd like to look at Kernel. 02:05:49 Yeah, Shen too. 02:06:30 I didn't think that Shen had anything interesting for evaluation. 02:08:09 Zhivago: It has optional lazy evaluation  oh, but yeah, not in a way thatd be helpful here. Just kind of like all the lazy CL libraries. 02:08:37 (so, nevermind Shen) 02:09:23 I don't remember that. What does it use the lazy evaluation for? 02:09:37 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.213.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:10:03 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 02:10:13 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.209.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:10:15 Zhivago: No idea, but: http://www.shenlanguage.org/learn-shen/lazy_eval.html 02:10:57 thaw. cute. 02:11:14 Looks like a promise. 02:12:33 is that delay/force? 02:12:43 adeht: Yeah. 02:13:56 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.213.74] has joined #lisp 02:15:15 http://www.shenlanguage.org/learn-shen/comments.html 02:15:27 is that really a C convention? :) 02:15:35 -!- rk[aft] is now known as ryankarason 02:16:21 adeht: You say /, I say \  02:19:06 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-39-234.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 02:19:17 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-39-234.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Changing host] 02:19:18 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 02:22:15 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 02:24:52 is dynamic binding creating side effects since it changes the outside world? 02:26:10 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-69-165.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:26:14 eg. with dynamic binding now i can not be sure that i will receive the same value when i run a function with the same args 02:26:30 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 02:26:41 another function might have dynamically rebound a variable 02:26:47 right 02:28:33 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:28 dynamic scoping seems to create a lot of confusion and debugging time 02:30:41 not really 02:31:06 sesam123: Im curious  whats your primary language currently? Haskell? 02:31:17 at least not for me.. maybe others are confused and spend lots of time debugging 02:32:56 I'm trying to compile SBCL-1.1.7 (upgrading from 1.1.4), and am getting an error in src/runtime/genesis/gc-internal.h about not being able to find #include . Is that supposed to refer to the genesis/simple-fun.h that I already have installed from 1.1.4, or to the new one in src/runtime/genesis/simple-fun.h? (i.e. do I need to change the <> to "" or add -I to /usr/share/sbcl-source/src/runtime/?) 02:34:03 tigranes: gc-internal.h isn't in src/runtime/genesis/, it's in src/runtime/... and it seems somehow unlikely that you're running make.sh properly. 02:35:19 nyef_: Err, sorry, that's my typo 02:36:00 nyef_: As for make.sh, that's very much in the realm of possibilities 02:36:35 Alternately, something else is wrong with your build environment, such as a poor choice of XC host. 02:36:40 -!- sesam123 [~sesam123@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: sesam123] 02:39:52 *tigranes* will try building from clean source. 02:40:35 Bike_ [~Glossina@71-34-75-216.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:06 gravitation [~gravitati@dyn-160-39-62-113.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 02:43:14 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-45-160.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:43:47 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 02:52:40 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-182d186a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:54:33 -!- ipmonger [~IPmonger@c-68-63-82-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ipmonger] 03:00:26 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:05:10 All right, so a clean source compiles properly. Yay! Now just need to figure out what the arch package does that breaks it. 03:07:05 And figure out why making documentation fails with lots of errors related to docstrings and @. Does anyone know if sbcl requires a specific version of texinfo, or is that another "local" problem? 03:09:20 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:09:29 n/m about texinfo 03:09:46 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 03:10:04 -!- nyef_ [~nyef@pool-70-109-140-43.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 03:10:06 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:32 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:12:42 dnolen [~user@rrcs-208-105-4-254.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:14:55 -!- pierpa [~user@host249-53-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:15:09 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.225.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:21:59 LiamH [~none@96.231.225.69] has joined #lisp 03:23:26 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:52 jenia [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:26:20 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@69.65.51.77] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:31:36 Hmm, havin issues calling a lisp program from another programming language when being run under apache - anyone ever do such a thing? 03:31:56 I've tried doing it with sbcl --script and also with an sbcl compiled executable 03:32:06 in both cases, it runs fine when called from a real user account 03:32:15 not so much as an exec call in other languages under apache though 03:33:15 syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:16 -!- syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:33:16 syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 03:39:09 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has joined #lisp 03:40:28 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:44:50 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.217.160.78] has left #lisp 03:45:19 gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:22 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:48:08 -!- gravitation [~gravitati@dyn-160-39-62-113.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: gravitation] 03:49:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.25.151] has joined #lisp 03:49:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.25.151] has quit [Changing host] 03:49:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:50:21 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:50:43 -!- gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:12 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 03:52:01 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-183-200.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:53:46 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-88-95.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 03:53:51 gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:49 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:56:39 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 03:59:59 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-207-10-139-148.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:03:08 (evenp '(1 2 3 4 5 ... 10)) fails because evenp requires an integer argument, I get this 04:03:54 but (remove-if-not #'evenp '(1 2 3 4 5 ... 10)) returns all the even integers. Why does the first command fail but the second one work? 04:04:19 What does remove-if-not do? 04:05:08 it takes a predicate and a list and returns a list containing the elements of the original list that match the predicate 04:05:20 gmcastil: So, why does the result surprise you? 04:05:51 perhaps i don't understand what a predicate is 04:06:11 How do I define the cache dir on quicklisp? I want to create a core dump with quickloaded files in it, however when I go to run a --script against it as a user who didn't make the original core dump, I get a "Cannot create ~/.cache" style error 04:06:14 when i evaluate evenp() it fails because it has no argument 04:06:26 It is a function that decides if a value belongs inside or outside of a set. 04:06:42 e.g., (evenp x) is true if x is even, and otherwise false. 04:06:53 Zhivago: so, is remove-if-not applying that function to each element in the list? 04:07:01 Isn't that what you said above? 04:07:13 ahungry: pretty sure that's part of asdf configuration 04:07:24 i quoted the documentation - i don't think i've got a solid understanding of what a predicate is 04:07:35 Which part of my explanation confuses you? 04:07:53 gmcastil: the predicate is applied to each element, yes. the elements that are in the set as zhivago says are put into the new list. 04:08:17 i don't see how to extract that interpretation from the definition of the remove-if-not function 04:08:31 Which interpretation? 04:08:41 the documentation for the function 04:08:49 The "elements ... that match the predicate" part? 04:08:52 i think its the whole "matching the predicate" 04:09:04 Those for which the predicate function returns true ... 04:09:13 4 matches the predicate, because it's even. 5 doesn't, since it's not even. pretty simple 04:09:19 Bike: yeah, i get that 04:09:28 Bike: i think its the terminology thats confusing me 04:09:32 then you get what a predicate is. 04:09:35 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.225.69] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:09:35 thanks Bike 04:09:36 I'd have preferred they wrote 'satisfies the predicate'. 04:09:41 that's really all there is to it. 04:10:37 i wasn't familiar with the concept of a predicate 04:11:10 Do you have any outstanding questions? 04:13:54 i'm looking at this: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node69.html 04:15:33 i think i get it, for some reason the original definition seemed rather hard to understand 04:17:30 Lovely. 04:17:41 i get it, thanks 04:17:53 is there a standard place for CL documentation? 04:18:03 The hyperspec is pretty standard. 04:18:13 CLTL is obsolete. 04:18:24 i'm using clojure 04:18:30 (But highly readable, and mostly accurate) 04:18:35 So, why are you reading CLTL? 04:18:46 i asked google, and that was the first answer 04:18:59 i'm working my way through Practical Common Lisp 04:19:06 Hmm. You might want to see a doctor and see if you've had a recent head injury. 04:19:27 is PCL a bad place to learn CL from? 04:19:40 But ... you're using clojure ... 04:19:43 i meant, i asked google for documentation on the command 04:20:07 See above. 04:20:38 I suggest that you work out (a) what programming language you are using, (b) what programming language you are learning, and (c) where the appropriate documentation is. 04:20:47 i thought the different common lisp implementations were all the same 04:20:52 oudeis [~oudeis@112.97.192.37] has joined #lisp 04:21:02 clojure isn't a common lisp implementation ... 04:21:04 gmcastil: clojure is a completely different language 04:21:29 gmcastil: you're basically doing the equivalent of going into ##c++ and asking questions about Java 04:21:35 apologies 04:21:39 i'm using clojure 04:21:49 but CL is a fine language to learn, and you should totally learn it instead of clojure. 04:24:32 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:24:42 not sure why i'm confused - clozure is what i'm using 04:24:56 clozure is a CL implementation. it's not clojure. 04:25:45 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 04:25:47 right 04:26:13 i wanted to learn CL and was told clojure was the most appropriate one - not sure why i got them confused 04:26:24 There's nothing wrong with clojure. 04:26:35 But the CL materials aren't really appropriate. 04:26:50 So, I'd sort out some clojure materials. 04:26:53 well, if you're using clozure, not clojure, PCL and the hyperspec sounds good. 04:26:58 damnit, i'm sorry 04:27:00 clozure 04:27:32 Well, you're certainly doing well on being consistently confused. :) 04:27:37 indeed 04:27:48 If you're using CCL, then the hyperspec is the place to check things. 04:28:14 CLTL2 is highly readable, but also obsolete -- so where CLLT2 and the hyperspec disagree, trust the hyperspec. 04:28:59 I think PCL, followed by the Hyperspec should cover most 04:29:33 ok, i found the hyperspec through google 04:29:40 that's what i should use to look up things? 04:29:51 gmcastil: the hyperspec is good as a reference once you learn to read it. 04:30:02 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:30:03 l1sp.org is good for finding things quickly sometimes 04:30:04 -!- daniel` [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:30:13 PCL is a great text for getting to know Lisp in a more practical context 04:30:13 gmcastil: Yes. There are a few concepts that are not covered very well though, and the main one in my opinion is string management 04:30:32 This page helps for that: http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/strings.html 04:30:34 and Gentle intro is a great text if PCL seems a bit too overwhelming (and you can still move on to PCL afterwards) 04:30:39 minion: please tell gmcastil about gentle 04:30:39 gmcastil: please see gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 04:30:48 That, and learning to use string-case and cl-ppcre and you're all set 04:31:07 sykopomp: i'll give that a try - PCL seems to presume a bit more knowledge of lisp than i have 04:31:21 sykopomp: Gentle is WAAY too gentle if you have any prior programming experience. 04:31:24 gmcastil: it presumes more general programming knowledge. 04:31:43 loke: if you can't just pick up PCL, I think it means gentle would help. 04:31:52 yeah, i've been able to follow it pretty well, but the syntax has thrown me a bit 04:32:11 get over it, and you'll love it 04:32:21 and i didn't have a definitive source of documentation, so the hyperspec should help with that 04:32:22 well, *I* love it, because it's technically useful. 04:32:43 sykopomp: Fair enough, but I feel that most people looking into Lisp already has enough programming experience to be frustrated by the fact that Gentle goes some 60 pages before even showing any code. 04:33:04 loke: I think some programmers would benefit from the box exercises. :) 04:33:15 all the real programming books have code right away, like taocp :P 04:33:18 sykopomp: Haha, fair point :-) 04:33:23 yeah, PCL doesn't feel over the top or anything 04:33:30 then go with it. 04:33:37 it gives short explanations that need some supplementation 04:33:42 feel free to ask questions here if you've already put effort into figuring out the answers 04:33:52 e.g., he states what remove-if-not does, but never defines what a predicate is 04:34:23 gmcastil: a predicate is a function that answers a yes/no question. 04:34:37 sykopomp: yup, i know that _now_ 04:37:39 so, clozure + quicklisp + hyperspec 04:37:45 anything else I should include? 04:38:28 emacs + slime 04:38:37 yeah, already there 04:38:57 i'd imagine there is a way to integate hyperspec with slime 04:39:33 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-34-75-216.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:39:43 M-x slime-hyperspec-lookup 04:40:05 -!- dnolen [~user@rrcs-208-105-4-254.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:40:11 C-c C-d h 04:42:02 -!- xpoqp [~xpoqp@unaffiliated/xpoqz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:43:03 xpoqp [~xpoqp@unaffiliated/xpoqz] has joined #lisp 04:43:52 teggi [~teggi@123.21.172.81] has joined #lisp 04:45:26 Bike [~Glossina@71-34-75-216.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:28 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 04:47:54 gmcastil: I recommend downloading an offline copy of the hyperspec and setting `common-lisp-hyperspec-root' to it 04:48:08 yeah, i was reading the docs and thought i miht do that 04:48:40 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@112.97.192.37] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:48:54 gmcastil: Just remember to update it periodically so your copy doesnt get out of date. 04:48:56 hahahaha 04:50:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-213.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:51:05 yeah 04:52:24 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:27 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has joined #lisp 04:52:38 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:53:48 can anyone tell me which (if any) utility libraries implement this list chunking function? https://gist.github.com/joekarma/5486646 04:54:06 also, code critique welcome 04:54:17 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-34-75-216.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 04:54:32 s/this list chunking function/a function like this/ 04:55:43 Anima-laptop [~B-Rad@146.244.86.71] has joined #lisp 04:56:34 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [] 04:56:35 -!- xpoqp [~xpoqp@unaffiliated/xpoqz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:56:42 hello everyone. are simple lisp questions welcome here? 04:57:00 joekarma: it is commonly called "group", but i don't know a library that has it offhand 04:57:23 xpoqp [~xpoqp@unaffiliated/xpoqz] has joined #lisp 04:57:24 joekarma: your code is rather wasteful, and the dual reversals don't look elegant 04:57:24 Anima-laptop: sure 04:57:25 -!- zmyrgel [~zmyrgel@a91-153-150-75.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:58:15 H4ns: I agree that the dual reversals look horrible, that's a big part of the reason I asked here since I'm hoping someone can suggest a better way to code the function 04:58:30 joekarma: loop 04:58:34 brand new to lisp here... I'm just wondering how I would go about timing a simple script... code here http://pastebin.com/BHHLGW7j 04:58:58 Anima-laptop: use the TIME macro 04:59:16 Anima-laptop: also learn how to indent using the tab key. 04:59:38 -!- gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:59:47 oh ya sorry about that.. formatting got kind of screwed up 05:00:07 Bike [~Glossina@71-34-75-216.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:08 Anima-laptop: paste.lisp.org knows how to format lisp code 05:00:34 H4ns: take 2 https://gist.github.com/joekarma/5486646 05:01:16 I wanted to try to implement it without loop first, but I agree that loop seems to always lend itself to the more concise solutions 05:01:58 joekarma: your version does not work with even inputs 05:02:12 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-loveegwchwocxdtx] has joined #lisp 05:02:54 oh, or does it? 05:03:03 -!- satshabad [~satshabad@pool-173-58-100-240.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:03:10 failed for me, damn 05:03:25 joekarma: no, it works. 05:03:49 joekarma: or no? man, i should wake up, sorry. 05:03:58 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.207.57] has joined #lisp 05:04:21 hehe, no worries... it doesn't work if the list doesn't fit exactly into n chunks of chunk-size 05:04:34 Bike_ [~Glossina@71-34-75-216.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:12 i should wake up nevertheless c|_| 05:06:47 gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has joined #lisp 05:06:48 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-34-75-216.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:07:07 kfoo_ [~kfoo@cable-86-56-52-189.cust.telecolumbus.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:53 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 05:07:53 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-34-75-216.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:12:19 oudeis [~oudeis@112.97.192.37] has joined #lisp 05:13:37 -!- CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:14:44 joekarma: that function is broken 05:16:29 -!- xpoqp [~xpoqp@unaffiliated/xpoqz] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 05:16:48 joekarma: but given that you obfix it (and don't mind cases like what to do when chunk-size is not a multiplier of length).. you can improve its performance by using nthcdr instead of the first subseq 05:18:10 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.207.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:19:48 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-216-221.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:08 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.4.5] has joined #lisp 05:22:36 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:23:23 keepishop [~keepishop@c-67-161-105-176.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:28 -!- gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:36 Vicfred [~anon@187.206.82.179] has joined #lisp 05:24:09 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-216-221.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:07 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-216-221.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:27:23 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 05:30:52 joekarma: btw I like the name CHOP for that function :) 05:31:38 could also call it SLICES 05:31:48 ala ruby's each_slice 05:31:56 gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:19 dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:33:05 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d011065.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:56 -!- kfoo_ [~kfoo@cable-86-56-52-189.cust.telecolumbus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:34:55 -!- Vicfred [~anon@187.206.82.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:38:46 -!- Anima-laptop [~B-Rad@146.244.86.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:42:35 Anima-laptop [~B-Rad@146.244.86.71] has joined #lisp 05:42:48 I'm completely lost as to how to use this time macro 05:44:18 (time (sleep 1)) 05:46:05 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:48:47 I feel like I tried that multiple times before.. but now it works. Thank you. There is very little information out there on the macro 05:50:32 Anima-laptop: maybe you want profiling - http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Profiling.html 05:51:10 -!- kbtr [~kbtr@li198-73.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:51:26 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:51:35 heh, not sure if this function's getting any cleaner, but: https://gist.github.com/joekarma/5486646 05:51:36 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 05:52:16 kbtr [~kbtr@li198-73.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 05:53:21 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:39 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-016-122.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:45 -!- erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: erikc] 05:54:05 I can see that I should probably implement forgiving-subseq in such a way as to not compute the length of the sequence on each go 05:54:42 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:16 -!- Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-86.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:01:04 agumonkey [~agu@97.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:37 -!- Anima-laptop [~B-Rad@146.244.86.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:02:50 -!- lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:03:24 okay, should be faster... https://gist.github.com/joekarma/5486646 <- can anyone offer their advice on how to improve these functions? 06:03:39 Start by using a profiler. 06:09:47 seems fast enough to me 06:10:50 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-loveegwchwocxdtx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:11:16 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:13:03 Joreji [~thomas@84-205.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 06:13:09 well, it can't take arrays any more 06:13:38 good point, should probably fix that 06:14:08 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:14:13 -!- totimkopf [~jamesmart@unaffiliated/totimkopf] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:14:28 totimkopf [~jamesmart@c-98-198-222-14.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:47 zorkmoid [c2ed8e07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.7] has joined #lisp 06:15:14 antgreen_ [~green@216.254.160.72] has joined #lisp 06:16:23 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-64-86.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:18:07 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:18:47 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.235.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:18:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@84-205.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:20:16 nostoi [~nostoi@174.Red-80-39-205.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:34 bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has joined #lisp 06:23:08 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 06:28:32 -!- GrayMagiker [~Steve@c-67-164-129-95.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:28:53 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:29:42 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.171.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 06:32:31 lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has joined #lisp 06:32:32 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.237] has joined #lisp 06:32:36 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:32:52 tigranes [~tigranes@216.18.22.26] has joined #lisp 06:35:57 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 06:36:48 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@216.18.22.26] has quit [Client Quit] 06:38:20 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:20 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:38:20 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 06:38:25 akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has joined #lisp 06:39:26 ;Good morning! 06:41:25 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:41:25 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:41:25 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:43:10 alright, this has been my last shot at a sequence grouping/chunking/slicing/chopping function: https://gist.github.com/joekarma/5486646 It's way longer than it was before, but does work for different types of sequences. suggestions on how to improve it, especially in terms code elegance, would be much appreciated 06:43:53 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:44:19 why not pass the length of the sequence to forgiving-whatever to avoid the recomputation bit? 06:46:27 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:48:19 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:51:28 Bike: I'll try that 06:53:12 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 06:54:43 intereresting... not sure i like the name though 06:57:46 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:58:53 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:03:52 Bike, are the changes from the latest revision what you meant? 07:04:52 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.4.5] has left #lisp 07:04:58 yeah, that doesn't seem very efficient though 07:05:11 Xach: Do you single-handedly manage all of quicklisp? 07:05:44 it does not seem to make much sense to have one implementation for all sequence types from a performance perspective. 07:05:58 for lists, the effecient implementation must be drastically different than for vectors 07:06:51 schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has joined #lisp 07:07:57 Aethaeryn: i think he uses both of his hands 07:08:19 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 07:08:47 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@112.97.192.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:08:51 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:23 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-216-221.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: tire] 07:11:33 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 07:12:38 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-193.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:53 oudeis [~oudeis@112.97.192.37] has joined #lisp 07:13:12 H4ns: that's why I had it implemented this way at first, https://gist.github.com/joekarma/5486646/a5953f5e7cb27d3558deb7cfa063fbf87a24210f <- mostly just using subseq which I assume the implementation has optimized for the different input types 07:15:08 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:15:34 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:34 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:15:34 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 07:16:11 You might find that using an iterator approach makes it simpler. 07:16:46 Then it's just a matter of iterating forward N steps, iterating while collecting forward for M steps. 07:17:13 Although the collector also would want differentiation. 07:18:48 originally I tried to implement this with series, but got stuck after (chunk (scan input) chunk-size) 07:19:13 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 07:19:33 well I won't say "stuck" per se, but I decided that to get the output to be what I needed I'd have to jump through too many hoops to make using series worthwhile 07:19:41 Yeah. I can see that. 07:20:40 I think that were I to try to make this generic, I'd like to do it by treating the inputs and outputs like files and streams, and then reading from one and writing to the other, selectively. 07:20:58 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:21:16 Then you can think about making a vector backed or list backed 'file' with a maximum size hint. 07:21:29 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:29 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:21:29 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 07:21:55 But that's probably going to cost too much overhead to be worthwhile. 07:22:15 Why do you want subsequences? 07:22:37 yak shaving by now 07:23:24 honestly I don't even remember why I needed (well, wanted) this function. I think it had something to do with converting between lists and multidimensional arrays. Of course, for that, the output type wouldn't have to match the input type 07:23:36 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04fcd7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:15 wouldn't mind having the function in my toolkit though, I have found myself wanting something like that on a few different occasions 07:24:28 when i depend on a system using asdf, does it load that system? seems not, so not sure what the point of the ':depends-on' parameter is. 07:24:32 I think that CL doesn't really support genericity very well. 07:25:15 To the extent that it does, it would probably be simpler and more efficient to have N implementations and dispatch between them. 07:25:44 probably the best approach 07:27:24 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:27:27 pavelpenev [~quassel@194.141.47.12] has joined #lisp 07:29:04 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 07:29:18 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:29:19 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 07:31:06 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 07:31:28 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ixybyjxugwtnewxq] has joined #lisp 07:33:48 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 07:34:40 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:35:46 AeroNotix [~xeno@abos56.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:36:48 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:37:35 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:38:22 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 07:43:53 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:44:09 fenton: asdf will load the dependencies that it can find, but it won't download the ones that are missing. quicklisp does that part. 07:45:26 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@174.Red-80-39-205.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Seite geschlossen] 07:46:17 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 07:47:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.171.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:47:32 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:50:55 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:51:54 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.107.32] has joined #lisp 07:52:22 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abos56.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 07:53:14 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 07:53:43 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 07:54:46 hmph, with/gensyms&with/uniqie-names has always irked me... it should be called let-gensyms or something 07:56:05 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 07:58:53 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:00:14 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:01:18 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 08:03:56 dbushenko [~dim@ec2-54-242-175-166.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 08:05:58 so, who'll be driving asdf development? 08:06:48 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:07:51 not fare? 08:07:59 nope 08:08:26 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:26 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:08:26 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 08:10:03 I doubt he'd have time, but xach would be uniquely qualified, I should think 08:12:16 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:46 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:14:18 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:16:54 kfoo_ [~kfoo@cable-86-56-52-189.cust.telecolumbus.net] has 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Anywhere.] 09:56:28 -!- arpunk [~user@190.84.40.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:57:51 schoppenhauer [~quassel@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 09:58:53 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:00:43 always interesting to browse paste.lisp.org ... 10:01:27 zorkmoid: did you know that Xach killed baby dolphins? 10:01:28 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:28 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:01:28 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:02:04 stassats: nope. 10:02:13 sounds like a horrific and painful deatj 10:02:20 zorkmoid: http://paste.lisp.org/display/56 10:02:50 can't hide from the past! 10:03:03 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:03:37 stassats: i don\t get it. 10:03:42 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 10:04:04 a user dropped by with nil as host, and caused xach's client to barf_ 10:04:23 zorkmoid: Xach declined to comment when i asked if that was true 10:04:26 -!- jenia [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:04:43 i see. 10:06:36 you can also find jokes: http://paste.lisp.org/display/102 10:07:13 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:07:17 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 10:08:01 was mostly looking at http://paste.lisp.org/display/136957 .. interesting approach. 10:08:20 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:08:53 can you search the paste.lisp.org database_ 10:09:45 _i_ can 10:09:57 google can too 10:10:03 mm... 10:10:08 would be fun to have it all available in some form 10:11:28 haha, last joke was funny... 10:11:36 protist [~protist@175.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 10:12:57 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-016-122.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:14:43 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:16:39 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:20:02 -!- PuercoPop [PuercoPop@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:c11b] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:20:20 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:20:25 -!- ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:21:02 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 10:21:48 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:22:45 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:10 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 10:23:33 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:23:47 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:47 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:23:47 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:24:37 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:25:39 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-061-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:16 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 10:29:18 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:30:55 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:31:12 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 10:31:36 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:36 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:31:36 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:31:49 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 10:35:27 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 10:36:42 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36:52 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.137.28.184] has joined #lisp 10:37:04 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 10:37:13 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:37:27 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 10:38:41 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:41:05 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04fcd7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 10:42:14 stassats: got more jokes? kinda bored stiff with this math problem... 10:42:24 -!- Amadiro [jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:42:31 Amadiro [jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no] has joined #lisp 10:42:46 well, you'd have to look yourself 10:43:38 zorkmoid: http://paste.lisp.org/display/90 may be amusing 10:45:09 kfoo_ [~kfoo@cable-86-56-52-189.cust.telecolumbus.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:38 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:49:20 crickity.. 10:49:54 -!- kfoo_ [~kfoo@cable-86-56-52-189.cust.telecolumbus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:51:15 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.225.36.182] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:52:02 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.225.36.182] has joined #lisp 10:54:11 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:58:19 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:59:43 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:02:53 -!- p_l|omoikane is now known as grumpy_cat 11:06:17 -!- akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:06:45 -!- brighid [~krinn@69.46.88.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:06:53 cdidd [~cdidd@95-25-98-77.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:07:36 brighid [~krinn@69.46.88.22] has joined #lisp 11:08:45 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 11:11:17 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:12:24 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:12:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:13:58 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 11:14:43 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:16:41 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 11:18:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.251.154] has joined #lisp 11:18:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.251.154] has quit [Changing host] 11:18:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:19:02 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-148.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-148.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:22:38 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:22:55 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:23:20 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 11:23:51 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:51 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:23:51 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 11:29:18 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:30:43 kfoo_ [~kfoo@cable-86-56-52-189.cust.telecolumbus.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:49 -!- fogus|gone [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:31:55 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 11:32:02 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@host34.209.51.231.conversent.net] has joined #lisp 11:32:12 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@host34.209.51.231.conversent.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:33:11 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 11:34:53 does anyone understand why (local-time:adjust-timestamp (local-time:parse-timestring "2013-04-30TZ") (offset :day-of-week :wednesday)) raises an error? 11:34:54 bug? wrong usage? 11:35:46 bloody asdf broke my system again 11:36:04 ah, asdf.asd in *default-pathname-defaults* again 11:36:14 bites me every time 11:36:55 dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has joined #lisp 11:37:44 I have a string split function that takes a string and a character (delimiter). How do I apply this function across a list of strings? (apply #'splitString '("foo" "bar" "baz") #\Space) seems to return "Attempt to use values list on a dotted list: #\ " 11:37:50 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:37:56 H4ns: it tires to consturct 31 of april 11:38:16 stassats: yeah. seems like a bug to me. 11:38:23 By the way, is it possible to use asdf as Make substitute? Like, for compiling C. 11:38:48 foreignFunction: if you want to wind up in a mental insitution after doing that, sure 11:39:39 :friday will construct 33 of april 11:40:08 i'm looking at the code and it seems to be downright broken :( 11:40:13 thanks for the confirmation. 11:40:18 dates are hard 11:40:39 programming is hard 11:40:48 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:40:49 *H4ns* is going to fix it 11:41:01 you will make programming easy? yay! 11:41:02 can't write invoices, so sufficiently motivated :) 11:41:15 dates are insanely hard 11:41:15 pranavrc: look at the MAP functions. 11:41:28 urgh... dates ... dates are pure evil. 11:41:39 unless you can it them 11:41:43 err, eat 11:41:51 it is not impossible to prevent trying to encode apr 33th however 11:42:00 50% of bugs at my old job, had to do with timezone handling, and corner cases around DST switching time (user editable custom dst tables ftw) 11:42:21 foreignFunction: you can but I don't think anybody ever tried it for more that one .c file 11:42:50 hint: ``Calendrical Calculations: The Millennium Edition'' by Edward M. Reingold and Nachum Dershowitz. 11:43:19 -!- attila_lendvai is now known as attila_lendvai1 11:43:47 guys, do you want me to stop me trying to fix local-time:adjust-timestamps because "dates are so hard" or what is it? 11:44:10 H4ns: get the above book, seriously, you will not want to fix dates after it. 11:44:33 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 11:46:04 naysayer 11:46:08 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.211.121] has joined #lisp 11:46:25 the function is downright broken and it does not require any sophisticated knowledge about calendars to fix it. 11:46:39 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:01 it is easy to see how the original author intended to make it right but then somehow forgot to, leaving behind a nice mess :) 11:49:17 stassats: ha, thats when you accidentally c-c c-k .asd file? 11:50:40 zorkmoid, ah right, mapcar does it, thanks! One more question, though, mapcar seems to truncate the result to one string when I specify the delimiter in a list in the second argument. Like, this -> (mapcar #'stringSplit '("foo bar" "bar baz") '(#\Space)) returns just (("foo" "bar")). Is there a function that would work around this? 11:50:44 straight forward solution, hook up c-c c-k and add yes-or-no (do you really want to C-c C-k .asd file, or you meant C-c C-l) 11:50:52 maxm: when you start slime from where asdf directory, and i have *default-pathname-defaults* in the registry, so it tries to upgrade itself 11:51:02 ah thats different 11:51:11 because it find asdf.asd 11:51:13 finds 11:52:05 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1220-140.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:52:07 pranavrc: (mapcan (lambda (x) (string-split x #\Space)) '("foo bar" "bar baz")) 11:52:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:52:38 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:52:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.251.154] has joined #lisp 11:52:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.251.154] has quit [Changing host] 11:52:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:53:35 stassats, thanks! 11:53:51 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 11:55:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:55:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 11:55:56 when working with text a lot, I usually create bunch of small utility functions, after,before,after-last,trim,rtrim etc. (after "foo: bar" #\:) => " bar". (trim (before "foo : bar" #\:)) => "foo" 11:56:15 makes ad-hoc parsing of stuff a breeze.. With cl-ppcre, you can as well make separators regexpressions 11:56:30 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 11:56:47 surely there is a library for those somewhere if you dig, if not, write your own and publish :-) 11:57:52 pranavrc: mapcar stops once the end of some list is reached. you might want (mapcar (lambda (string) (stringSplit string #\Space)) '("foo bar" "bar baz")) 11:58:46 btw, string-split looks much nicer than stringSplit as a name. we don't have to camel-case, we can use hyphens in names. 11:59:05 rudi, yup, thanks. I was trying to write a function instead to construct a list of delimiters instead for the second argument :/ 11:59:17 rudi, oh. I'll start changing the names then. 12:01:10 maxm, I guess I'm also advertently building a module with utility functions to get these things done, now that you say it ;) 12:01:21 s/advertently/inadvertently 12:01:54 -!- kfoo_ [~kfoo@cable-86-56-52-189.cust.telecolumbus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:02:13 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:03:46 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:06:49 clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:14:17 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.130.102] has joined #lisp 12:14:24 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.130.102] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:14:52 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.130.102] has joined #lisp 12:15:24 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-167-124.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:27 bitonic [~user@dyn1223-76.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:20:33 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-157-193.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:22:23 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 12:22:38 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:23:05 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:21 LiamH [~none@129-2-129-147.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:23:29 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:23:42 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:24:14 -!- dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 12:24:18 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:24:40 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:25:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.251.154] has joined #lisp 12:25:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.251.154] has quit [Changing host] 12:25:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:29:30 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.172.81] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:31 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 12:29:43 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:31:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:00 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:32:00 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:00 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:32:00 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:33:03 rudi: split-string ... :-) 12:33:50 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 12:34:05 agumonkey [~agu@225.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:45 kfoo_ [~kfoo@cable-86-56-52-189.cust.telecolumbus.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:26 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:48 fsvehla [~fsvehla@chello084112185050.3.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 12:37:38 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:38:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:39:00 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:00 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:39:00 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:42:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43:50 [6502] [~user@88-149-154-87.v4.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 12:44:43 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:45:15 <[6502]> I find SICL castle a bit upside-down... reader needs loop, loop needs classes 12:45:29 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:45:39 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:45:51 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:46:50 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:50 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:46:50 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:47:20 [6502]: it can lead to an interesting implementation, efficiency-wise. 12:48:04 [6502]: notice also, that potential targets nowadays include things like javascript, .NET, python, ruby, etc. So it may not be so silly to use CLOS as a system layer. 12:48:44 <[6502]> but it's an all-or-nothing solution 12:49:02 and also other CL implementations. 12:49:20 Well, ok, making subsets of CL with SICL will look silly. 12:49:24 and what does complaning solve? 12:49:28 complaining 12:49:28 :-) 12:49:53 <[6502]> i'm not complaining... i simply expected a different dependency graph 12:50:05 <[6502]> a bottom-up approach, so to speak 12:50:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:50:26 that's yet another reason why even more implementations are needed: to explore different dependency graphs. 12:50:45 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:40 [6502]: admittedly, your goals are different from the goals of the SICL authors 12:52:38 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:53:42 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 12:53:45 <[6502]> actually I fail to really understand the SICL idea 12:53:55 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:54:37 <[6502]> if you need a full blown CL implementation for every part of it ... 12:54:45 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 12:54:57 <[6502]> i need to read more 12:55:28 <[6502]> for now the picture I get is a castle upside-down 12:55:30 it doesn't need a full blown CL 12:58:40 <[6502]> requiring "loop" for the reader seems strange 12:58:54 but why? 12:58:57 <[6502]> and using classes in the implementation of loop seems strange 12:59:12 <[6502]> why seems strange? 12:59:17 yes, why? 12:59:42 <[6502]> I see the reader a very low-level thing, starting simple 12:59:44 CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:46 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:00:02 <[6502]> classes are not needed for the reader 13:00:17 <[6502]> you can add support for classes in the reader when you get to classes, because it's extensible 13:00:18 that is just a matter of implementation choice. 13:00:44 i'd argue that the object system is very fundamental. 13:01:14 <[6502]> i thought it was a relatively recent addition to Lisp 13:01:26 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:01:30 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 13:01:40 is it "i don't have classes in my implementation, so SICL is wrong" 13:01:40 [6502]: obviously, if you want to start from nothing, you will need a simple lisp reader to read the CL reader! 13:01:53 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ixybyjxugwtnewxq] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:01:54 of course, in terms of history, but that can't matter to a modern implementation. 13:02:09 You could key in a lisp image using a hex pad. 13:02:13 and similarly, you won't need the full CLOS+MOP to implement LOOP, just a subset of CLOS ('structures' and methods). 13:02:36 <[6502]> stassats: i'm not looking at SICL for my toy, you can cool down 13:02:54 Personally, I see the lisp reader as being a cheap hack that had economic benefits back in the stone age. 13:03:02 Zhivago: and indeed that's an interesting exercise. How to key in a working and nice lisp system into a RhaspberryPi without any other software. 13:03:07 developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 13:03:16 Start to hardwire a SDCARD to boot the key-in process :-) 13:03:50 <[6502]> stassats: I was looking a SICL for jscl, that aims at being as close as CL as possible 13:04:00 *[6502]* is not even sure it's a thing that makes sense 13:04:10 Perhaps for library functions. 13:04:49 Implement your core, implement over it the core needed by SICL, load SICL. 13:05:12 [6502]: fwiw, your comments make sense to me. I would have expected SICL to be useful when bootstrapping something like JSCL. 13:05:46 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:05:47 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.84.183] has joined #lisp 13:05:56 developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 13:06:39 [6502]: otoh, if it had a CLOS implementation, that wouldn't be an issue. But in that case, it'd be strange to not be able to use LOOP within CLOS, indeed. 13:06:53 <[6502]> luis: may be you can use to start a CL implementation targeting Javascript, but basically you need to throw away everything that is in jscl and start upside-down 13:07:33 <[6502]> i need to read more about SICL, may be I'l make sense out of its dependency graph 13:08:13 <[6502]> what I fell strange is that a reader depending on loop is just "annoying" and I fail to see what's the good point of that choice 13:08:36 <[6502]> loop is just a little syntactic help 13:09:01 does loop require classes to be macroexpanded or to be evaluated? 13:09:05 luis: i think you'd be able to use LOOP within clos 13:09:12 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:09:14 it should expand into something without involving clos 13:09:40 <[6502]> Krystof: LOOP parsing code uses classes 13:09:47 so, what's so bad about that? 13:09:54 the host compiler should have classes 13:10:13 OK, makes sense. 13:10:50 <[6502]> Krystof: nothing, except that it could have avoided them easily, not *forcing* you to also have class support implemented 13:11:07 <[6502]> it's an all-or-nothing 13:11:20 <[6502]> and I don't see what's the good point of that 13:11:33 SICL is indeed geared toward implementing common lisp. 13:11:42 <[6502]> all of it 13:11:44 in CL. 13:11:45 *rszeno* is nowdays philosophy 13:11:46 <[6502]> from day 1 13:11:57 not bootstrapping it from 'nothing'. 13:11:57 to boot a lisp, there's the xcl/clisp/abcl model, where you have to implement evaluating stuff in terms of simpler stuff. There's the cmucl/ccl model, where you implement compiling stuff in terms of an earlier version of yourself, and evaluating stuff in terms of the new self. There's the sbcl model, where you implement compiling stuff in terms of Common Lisp and evaluating stuff in terms of the new self. 13:12:30 SICL helps with the two latter models but not (much) the first unless you agree on what is "simpler" with SICL 13:12:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:13:05 flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 13:13:05 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 13:13:05 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 13:13:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.84.183] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:03 <[6502]> in a sense is common lisp looking backward to the past 13:14:23 deveux [~deveux@74.Red-83-45-150.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:34 i guess there is also the byte code model, where you just have a vm and a compiler, and only port the vm, which i guess from a brief look at sicl is what it tries to do.. define a set of primitives that one needs to port. 13:14:52 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 13:14:57 -!- LiamH [~none@129-2-129-147.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:15:00 <[6502]> hmmm 13:15:02 [6502]: how come you're always complaining that CL is so bad? maybe you shouldn't be using it? 13:15:12 that's "implement stuff in terms of simpler stuff" in my understanding 13:15:28 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@chello084112185050.3.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 13:15:55 looking backward to the past, when it's called 'lisp', is a good thing! :-) 13:16:17 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1223-76.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:16:26 Remember that the past is mostly decried by people who made things worse. 13:16:31 <[6502]> stassats: I think that CL is not perfect, but this is the first time in a fe days that I'm saying anything "against" CL (if saying that thinking that's not perfect is such a thing). 13:16:46 No language can be perfect anyway. 13:16:50 What do you say against CL? 13:17:15 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@112.97.192.37] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:17:37 <[6502]> deveux: agree... but don't tell to stassats 13:18:02 Lisp can be perfect, because you can improve it yourself, with macros. 13:18:04 <[6502]> the vm think makes some sens 13:18:14 <[6502]> sense 13:18:22 <[6502]> i need to read more about SICL 13:18:34 [6502]: no, for the past year or so you've been constantly dissatisfied with this or that aspect of CL, if it's so painful, why bother? 13:19:01 -!- kfoo_ [~kfoo@cable-86-56-52-189.cust.telecolumbus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:19:24 [6502]: what are you trying to do 13:19:30 If it's painful, it motivates to improve it! 13:19:52 <[6502]> stassats: why dissatisfied? I don't really use CL. Sometimes I'm confused so I come here asking, that's all. 13:20:30 <[6502]> stassats: I loved the lisp idea, tho. So I implemented a lisp thing and I'm using it for a few spare time projects. But it's not CL and it will never be CL. 13:20:51 <[6502]> zorkmoid: I wanted to try to contribute to JSCL 13:21:17 <[6502]> zorkmoid: the reader is really lacking so I tried first to fix it a bit 13:21:26 ok and? 13:21:34 jenia [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:21:42 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:21:52 <[6502]> zorkmoid: but the I saw the reader CLHS "specification" and just fainted drop on the floor 13:22:16 and SICL doesn't fit the bill, which indicates that "CL is going backward to the past" 13:22:25 [6502]: why? 13:22:37 [6502]: CL is a complicated language ... 13:22:37 <[6502]> zorkmoid: then I looked at SICL as suggested in jscl issue tracker 13:23:15 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:27 <[6502]> stassats: no... i meant that seems to me that SICL is CL looking backward 13:23:39 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 13:23:53 Too bad beach doesn't come here anymore :-( 13:24:06 good for him 13:24:12 probably. 13:24:41 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:25:07 The reader is fairly simple, the reader macros are more complicated. Particularly the symbol/number reader. 13:26:08 No, that's not the complex part. The complex part is reading the dot syntax. 13:26:45 <[6502]> Zhivago: the "specs" in CLHS for the reader are in form of an explicit algorithm. 13:26:47 Notably: you cannot use the exported functions READ-DELIMITED-LIST and READ to implement reading the dot syntax! 13:26:53 Well, it could all be a lot more simple if there was something smarter than a character dispatch table at the bottom. 13:27:18 <[6502]> the dot reader is where all it started from 13:27:30 <[6502]> jscl was reading "(1 .25)" as "(1 . 25)" 13:27:40 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-6.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:47 In these days of ridiculously powerful machines something like a PEG grammar would probably have made more sense. 13:27:48 Not surprising, this is the complex part. 13:28:07 It reminds me of that nerve in the giraffe's neck. 13:28:28 Notice that you don't need to read dot syntax to write an implementation. So you can already read the sources of an implementation with a much simplier lisp reader. 13:29:03 write (quote x), (function x), (vector 1 2 3) and you can avoid a lot of reader macros. 13:29:05 <[6502]> if the implementation is not using dot reading 13:29:18 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-242.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:29:35 No valid CL form needs an explicit dot. 13:29:50 Zhivago: sometimes people write/read huge generated data files... Memoisation might hurt. 13:29:53 In sources, it's only used for ugly hacks, or for quoted a-lists. 13:30:22 You can avoid literal a-lists. (defparameter *map* (list (cons :k1 :v1) (cons :k2 :v2))) ; etc. 13:31:01 pkhuong: For some grammars it might be an issue. There's probably a better all-round choice than PEG. I just picked it as an example. 13:31:06 <[6502]> pjb: SICL uses a lot the dot-list.... e.g. (export . #1#=(...)) 13:31:17 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:31:43 6502: His point is that you _could_ write an implementation that doesn't, and use that to bootstrap. 13:31:47 This is in the category of ugly hacks :-) You can just copy-and-paste the data. 13:31:57 Or rewrite an existing one to not do so. 13:32:16 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:32:24 If your reader doesn't get dot syntax right, you might want to focus on that before importing code from SICL. 13:32:36 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 13:32:42 <[6502]> i fixed the dot... sort of 13:33:02 <[6502]> but found there was no support at all for symbol escaping 13:33:22 <[6502]> so hacked that too in 13:33:39 <[6502]> and then I saw what a CL reader is supposed to be and fainted :-D 13:34:27 6502: What I like best is that there's no sane way to separate the parsing of symbols and numbers. :) 13:34:47 <[6502]> Zhivago: and let's not talk about potential numbers :-D 13:34:57 <[6502]> Zhivago: or that integers can end with "." 13:35:04 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-152-219.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:35:39 <[6502]> rebuild finished... back to work 13:35:41 <[6502]> l8r 13:35:48 -!- [6502] [~user@88-149-154-87.v4.ngi.it] has left #lisp 13:37:59 funny, in my reader I separate the parsing of symbols and numbers without any problem: (rom (parse-decimal-integer-token token) (parse-integer-token token) (parse-ratio-token token) (parse-float-1-token token) (parse-float-2-token token) (parse-symbol-token token)) 13:39:48 -!- arpunk` is now known as arpunk 13:43:03 w 13 13:45:30 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 13:45:44 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:00 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:49:41 benkard 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by peer] 14:25:03 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 14:25:20 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:46 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:28:21 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:28:38 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:29:58 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:30:21 I tried to use http://xach.livejournal.com/294639.html but the pathname ends up being ~/.cache/..., which is wrong ... 14:30:55 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-140-43.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:03 is there an update for that? 14:31:10 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:24 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-160-154.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:31:55 -!- protist [~protist@175.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:33:17 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:34:38 ah, the (or *compile-file-pathname*) comment helps. 14:35:21 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-160-154.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:35:33 *stassats* senses that it's his comment 14:35:42 and it is 14:36:46 i don't feel comfortable using anything ASDF-related in the code 14:37:36 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:16 kfoo_ [~kfoo@cable-86-56-52-189.cust.telecolumbus.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:52 H4ns: thanks for the patch 14:40:47 dlowe: you're welcome. the cond is a bit icky i think, but then *shrug* 14:41:45 dlowe: earlier i thought it would make sense to have the let in the test form, but a t would have been clearer there. 14:44:22 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:44:40 -!- drmeiste_ 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15:24:30 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 15:24:55 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:38 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-6.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:54 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-6.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:31 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 15:26:42 hi 15:27:29 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 15:27:44 Denommus: hello 15:31:08 xcombelle_ [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-135-128.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:32:16 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-061-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:33:25 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-120-170.w92-156.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:34:24 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:41:58 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] 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[~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23:03 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1218-219.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:23:45 Hello i have a question, How can i make a directory?, for example "mkdir /home/userx/foo" 16:23:46 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:06 Juanito-Jons: ensure-directories-exist is one way 16:24:09 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:24:14 I need some library ? 16:24:22 ok 16:24:23 Juanito-Jons: ensure-directories-exist is standard. 16:25:00 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:05 thanks 16:27:04 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:27:30 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.189] has joined #lisp 16:27:36 -!- kfoo_ [~kfoo@cable-86-56-52-189.cust.telecolumbus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:27:36 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:29:31 ejohnson 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[~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:45:05 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.209.35] has joined #lisp 17:45:27 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 17:45:32 Xach: is putting several systems into one .asd, with different requires normal modus operadi with QL? 17:45:51 tigranes [~tigranes@216.18.22.26] has joined #lisp 17:46:08 coz I don't like to have slime integration as separate project, rather have it inside, but it requires :swank, while log4cl itself does not 17:47:04 maxm: What is the advantage of putting multiple definitions in a single .asd file? 17:48:10 Xach: well so I just have single github project rather then two and such.. Actually you gave me an idea, does QL handles 2 asd files in a repository? 17:48:31 maxm: I put multiple systems in a single file only if the other systems should never be loaded explicitly (EG, I put test systems in with the primary system, since they only exist as a dependency of test-op on the primary). 17:48:47 *sykopomp* uses foo.x.asd, foo.y.asd, foo.z.asd, etc. 17:48:49 maxm: Yeah, you can have multiple .asds in a repo. 17:49:16 maxm: sure, multiple system definition files are no problem. 17:49:19 do I need to open separate QL issue for second system in the same repo? 17:49:23 Nope. 17:49:32 quicklisp scans for all files named '*.asd' 17:49:42 cool great.. And 2 files are preferred rather then one, got it 17:49:58 I prefer it. sellout's reason is good for not doing two. 17:50:03 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:44 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:50:50 well for some reason I have this idea that someone may be using log4cl without swank (coz some guy was submitting lispworks issues), and I don't want to force it on ppl 17:50:53 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@69.65.51.77] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:51:04 so thats the reason to have 2nd system for slime integration 17:51:07 oudeis [~oudeis@69.65.51.77] has joined #lisp 17:51:13 kfoo_ [~kfoo@cable-86-56-52-189.cust.telecolumbus.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:40 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:53:04 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 17:53:38 Makes sense. 17:54:05 Some people have systems like foo.asd and foo+swank.asd. I don't really like that naming style but I think the idea is the same. 17:54:47 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:43 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:50 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 17:59:21 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:25 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:19 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:01:20 -!- jenia [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:02:56 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboo71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:03:32 oudeis_ [~oudeis@69.65.51.77] has joined #lisp 18:03:54 jenia [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:04:52 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@69.65.51.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:06:57 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 18:07:30 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04fcd7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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Call it with --script and deal with the initial delay of loading everything up? Run off a core dump of my quicklisp libs (or a complete dump aka executable)? Run as a listening socket service and handle input/output through a link there? 18:44:10 or even as a restful api using hunchentoot 18:44:26 -!- Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@e177113042.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:44:38 zmq maybe 18:45:11 Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@e177113253.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:45:17 xificurC [~xificurC@adsl-dyn236.78-98-85.t-com.sk] has joined #lisp 18:45:28 oh no, not cl-who esc for attributes again 18:45:59 *stassats* was a victim of not careful doc reading once too 18:46:21 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5DC63A84.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:49:31 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.189] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 18:50:28 pnpuff [~ad-astra@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:51:38 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:49 is there a library for calculating UTC/GMT Unix Timestamps from a time and a country given? Because ... determining when daylight-saving-time has been on/off is possible, but nothing I want to do if somebody else already did it. 18:58:54 ahungry: all decent options depending on what you need. 19:01:39 milosn [~milosn@user-5af50a8b.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:53 -!- xcombelle_ [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-135-128.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:41 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:04:18 -!- milosn_ [~milosn@user-5af507c7.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:04:50 could someone point me to a simple lisp-to-xyz translator or a book / site about it? I'd like to understand what happens in the background when lisp code is being transformed to another language 19:05:27 you mean a compiler? PAIP has a basic scheme->bytecode 19:06:04 or SICP 19:06:24 xificurC: Lisp in Small Pieces (LiSP) has a bunch of interpreters/compilers (including targeting C, IIRC). 19:06:25 or ECL 19:06:34 or Chicken Scheme 19:06:37 they compile to C 19:07:16 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 19:08:28 xificurC: maybe you'd be interested in some lisp->html|ps|css|etc. libraries? there are many.. Practical Common Lisp has html generation chapters 19:08:45 s/ps/js 19:10:04 grettke [~grettke@198.61.172.121] has joined #lisp 19:10:17 woo so many replies, thanks I'm browsing around for all of it 19:11:06 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g225050005.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:11:52 xificurC: http://readscheme.org/ (sorry if maybe is OT :) 19:12:45 -!- grettke [~grettke@198.61.172.121] has quit [Client Quit] 19:15:23 AeroNotix [~xeno@abog202.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:15:28 satshabad [~satshabad@host-134-71-47-202.allocated.csupomona.edu] has joined #lisp 19:15:55 xificurC: for a Fortran->Lisp traslator: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Fortran-to-Lisp.html 19:18:07 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.207.57] has joined #lisp 19:18:17 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 19:26:51 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: hallucinations] 19:28:14 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:28:44 is there an EVERY that takes a :KEY? Like (EVERY #'< :key #'CAR (list (cons 1 :a) (cons 2 :b) ...) (list (cons 2 :g) (cons 3 :a))) 19:29:02 I guess LOOP is the shortest answer, using ALWAYS 19:29:09 flip214: I tend to use loop/iterate 19:30:08 what's (every #'< ...) supposed to mean? 19:30:13 flip214: I usually use in-place lambdas 19:30:31 flip214: and what adeht says: 19:30:38 sort takes a :key, though 19:30:46 you only get 1 arg from EVERY 19:31:35 ehu: " The predicate is first applied to the elements with index 0 in each of the sequences, and possibly then to the elements with index 1, and so on, until a termination criterion is met or the end of the shortest of the sequences is reached." 19:31:50 Am I misunderstanding that? 19:32:24 (< number) is always true so that expression will evaluate to true 19:33:32 xani [~user@178.183.155.174.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 19:34:20 minion: every 19:34:20 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``every''. 19:34:26 minion: hs every 19:34:26 watch out, you'll make krystof angry 19:34:55 clhs every 19:34:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_everyc.htm 19:35:14 adeht: ah, thanks. 19:35:36 adeht: The first argument to predicate is an element of the first sequence; each succeeding argument is an element of a succeeding sequence. 19:35:49 so, if there are 2 sequences, < should receive 2 arguments. 19:36:20 ah, didn't notice that you passed two sequences 19:36:35 yeah, i don't think there's a version with :key 19:36:44 pass (lambda (x y) (< (car x) (car y))) i guess? 19:39:44 Bike: of course, but that has a duplicated CAR ;} 19:41:16 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:02 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.130.102] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:30 (mismatch (list (cons 1 :a) (cons 2 :b)) (list (cons 2 :g) (cons 3 :a)) :key #'car :test #'<) 19:43:22 -!- satshabad [~satshabad@host-134-71-47-202.allocated.csupomona.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:43:50 ah, MISMATCH. thank you! 19:44:06 currently looking at "*PACKAGE* can't be a deleted package:" 19:45:11 -!- pnpuff [~ad-astra@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:46:08 and from where i'm around, that list is usually expressed as '((1 . :a) (2 . :b)) 19:46:26 pnpuff` [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:48:18 schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has joined #lisp 19:48:59 -!- MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz 19:49:33 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@netblock-68-183-229-245.dslextreme.com] has quit [Quit: Snamich] 19:51:29 What am I doing wrong when I can't use 'defvar' after 'in-package'? Going by this: https://code.google.com/p/cl-blogger/source/browse/trunk/blogger.lisp?spec=svn2&r=2 as an example I'm not doing anything different 19:51:30 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-228-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:55 you're not :using cl in your package 19:52:07 thanks stassats 19:53:19 Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has joined #lisp 19:54:52 aw|sovereign_ [~aw@unaffiliated/aw] has joined #lisp 19:55:11 hmm, doing (let ((x '(1 2 3))) (break) (print x)) in SBCL doesn't show x in the swank inspector... 19:55:16 Aiwass [~user@unaffiliated/aiwass] has joined #lisp 19:55:28 it doesn't exist 19:55:38 Natch_e [~Natch@c-10cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:55:43 (declaim (optimize (debug 3) (safety 3))) 19:56:01 is what I'm using... why doesn't it exist? 19:56:04 -!- Borbus_ [borbus@85.17.58.106] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:56:50 -!- clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset 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[~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:42:34 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:47 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:47 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:45:45 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abog202.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 20:51:00 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-216-221.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:23 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-216-221.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:54:42 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.225.36.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:55:53 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.84.162] has joined #lisp 20:56:10 bolcselo [~x@pool-108-45-77-30.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:40 -!- clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:36 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@112.97.192.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:02:09 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-39-234.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 21:02:20 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-39-234.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Changing host] 21:02:20 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 21:02:59 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@216.18.22.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:03:16 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 21:04:52 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 21:04:55 oudeis [~oudeis@183.233.228.94] has joined #lisp 21:05:52 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:07:08 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.84.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:27 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 21:08:48 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.84.162] has joined #lisp 21:08:50 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.214.173.117] has joined #lisp 21:09:11 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:25 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.84.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:16 Soooo.... Is there a good lisp intro anywhere? 21:12:29 minion: tell keepishop about pcl 21:12:29 keepishop: have a look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 21:12:39 minion: tell keepishop about gentle 21:12:39 keepishop: look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 21:13:07 Anything freely available online? 21:13:09 Gentle introduction is a good read if you are new to programming in general, or want a more in-depth text about symbolic manipulation of CONS cells etc. 21:13:27 keepishop: both those are online 21:13:28 keepishop: both books included links to freely available copies 21:13:35 I'm ok with bash, can stuble around php, and understand C. 21:13:39 *stumble 21:13:55 Oh, books with free copies. That's rare. 21:14:06 man, what kind of sad internet are you from 21:14:09 keepishop: then the main difficulty will be to scrub your mind from needless complications :-) 21:15:06 prxq: Yeah, the idea is to get a different persepective. I'm being forced to learn ruby and thought lisp probably already solved all of their problems. 21:15:16 bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has joined #lisp 21:15:37 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:53 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-39-234.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 21:16:04 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-39-234.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Changing host] 21:16:04 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 21:19:18 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:00 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 21:21:09 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 21:21:13 Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 21:23:27 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:24:49 deveux [~deveux@74.Red-83-45-150.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:56 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:25 -!- Aiwass [~user@unaffiliated/aiwass] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:32:31 Bike_ [~Glossina@65-102-1-236.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:48 gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:51 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-104-178.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:33:20 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 21:35:36 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-216-221.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:36:31 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-228-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:36:42 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:38:58 so I'm starting to realize that swank kinda makes the universe crazy 21:38:58 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@65-102-1-236.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:39:08 I have my app shell in place 21:39:17 can exit with ctrl-c at the shell 21:39:33 if I use it with socat I have a clean (no output) startup thanks to buildapp 21:39:35 -!- enymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:39:50 but once I start that swank server that all goes out the window 21:39:52 :) 21:41:34 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d011065.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:42:30 Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-236.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:30 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-140-43.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 21:47:14 -!- schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:47:24 -!- rszeno1 [~rszeno@79.114.107.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:48:10 schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has joined #lisp 21:48:17 oh wait... that's going to stderr afterall 21:49:00 niiiiiice 21:49:03 ok I'm happy 21:49:35 I can run the emulator, connect to it in slime, and the app on the other end never notices :) 21:51:08 I can't kill the emulator from slime though 21:51:25 I have a function (defun abort! () (setf *state* :abort)) 21:51:32 Quadresce__ [~quad@c-24-4-5-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:40 my main loop: (loop until (eq *state :abort) ... ) 21:51:51 but calling (abort!) from slime does nothing 21:53:03 -!- Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-236.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:53:20 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:36 -!- Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:54:09 photex: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Special-Variables.html 21:54:36 if you set *state* but read *state, that's not too surprising 21:54:47 :) 21:54:53 Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-236.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:06 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.207.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:56:08 that was a typo 21:56:13 double checked just now 21:56:23 wait.. should I use getf? 21:56:33 satshabad [~satshabad@134.71.168.15] has joined #lisp 21:56:46 I thought I read those names were coincidental and not related (getf, setf) 21:56:58 they're not really related, no 21:58:03 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.214.173.117] has left #lisp 21:58:08 I'm declaring *state* using defvar 21:58:46 you could use slime to interrupt the thread running the main loop and look at the backtrace. 22:00:51 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:41 -!- bolcselo [~x@pool-108-45-77-30.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:22 photex: do you bind it in the thread with the loop 22:03:40 yes 22:03:40 (or the thread with the setf, really) 22:03:55 if i kill a thread which had an unwind-protect, the protected code is likely not going to be called, correct? (this is SBCL) 22:03:57 in the function I set as the buildapp entry 22:04:27 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:04:28 first line of the function is a call to a function that initializes my *input* *output* and *state* 22:04:33 then I start swank 22:04:44 photex: such bindings are thread-local, as mentioned in the link I gave 22:04:52 I see 22:05:48 so setf isn't assigning a value, it's creating a binding? 22:06:01 photex: no 22:06:45 photex: it would be easier to understand the issue if you come up with a small test case that you can lisppaste 22:06:46 -!- schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:08:23 adeht: http://paste.lisp.org/display/136967 22:09:47 bolcselo [~x@pool-108-45-77-30.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:12 <|3b|> does that recv block? 22:10:24 yes 22:10:39 <|3b|> then you will never exit the loop if it is waiting for input 22:10:53 -!- _d3f [~gnu@93.114.45.248] has quit [Quit: \o/] 22:11:02 but I send data to cause the loop to move along 22:11:10 photex: what 3b says, and also you seem to compare strings with EQ, which is likely not what you want 22:11:32 oh I need = 22:11:39 hadn't even come that far 22:11:40 <|3b|> = is for numbers 22:11:46 blarg 22:11:50 ravster [~ravi@66.207.222.14] has joined #lisp 22:11:57 eq is testing object identity then? 22:12:10 <|3b|> equal or string= would compare string contents 22:12:57 <|3b|> right, eq is object identity, eql is EQ + comparing numbers and characters (neither of which has an identity in CL) by value 22:13:12 -!- arrdem is now known as `arrdem 22:13:13 photex: EQ checks object identity (essentially compares memory pointers) 22:13:35 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 22:13:51 *|3b|* won't try to remember the exact details of equal or equalp from memory 22:13:54 <|3b|> clhs equal 22:13:54 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_equal.htm 22:14:00 <|3b|> ^ so see that for details 22:15:12 leo2007 [~leo@li511-224.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:17:22 in python I used dicts to control the state machine. I eventually wanted to do something along those lines here too 22:17:38 I usually test it on the REPL untill I get the one I want 22:17:47 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:53 to avoid a bunch of if, cond, and otherwise messy looking code 22:18:18 photex: you can use a hash-table. It's the same thing as a dict in Python. You can also use change-class, if you're using CLOS, to simply change the behavior of the object by changing its class 22:18:44 it's like Java's State Pattern, only without needing a pattern 22:18:51 in the python version I'm also using a generator for a particular state of the device which triggers image capture from the camera at an interval 22:18:53 -!- ravster [~ravi@66.207.222.14] has left #lisp 22:18:59 Denommus: that sounds perfect 22:19:08 that's what I'm hoping to learn with this 22:19:12 I wouldn't go the change-class route so fast 22:19:23 I was thinking hash-map 22:19:30 hash-table* 22:19:57 change-class is useful when the state machine is really complex, or you're not sure if the requirements will change until the end of the project 22:20:26 on the device itself is basically a giant switch block controlling all the logic 22:20:42 and there are however many functions based on the state and the message 22:20:59 I was hoping to translate that into something elegant and fun for the emulator 22:21:29 photex: the good thing about Common Lisp's hash-table is that you can define which method will make the comparison for the index. So if you want to use a keyword as the index, you can use eq. If you want to use strings, you can use equal 22:22:00 also, you can implement a state machine the old-fashioned way - with CL:GO and CL:TAGBODY (aka GOTO) 22:22:01 is there a way to convert a string into keyword? 22:22:02 and since you have first-class functions, you can make the index point directly to a function 22:22:03 clhs go 22:22:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_go.htm 22:22:06 dispatch on symbols and EQL specialisers. 22:22:26 I get a string from the host application 22:22:52 photex: alexandria:make-keyword 22:23:00 photex: you usually won't need to do so, but... yeah, you can: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/211717/common-lisp-programmatic-keyword 22:24:39 -!- agumonkey [~agu@225.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:24:40 adeht: oh, I didn't know about alexandria 22:25:14 s/alexandria/alexandria's function/ 22:27:41 although I tend to consider the following options first: (i) keeping to strings (ii) using a hash table to translate them to symbols (iii) using find-symbol with a package especially for them (iv) with the keyword package 22:28:06 yeah, I just started to wonder why I should bother with keywords in this case 22:29:00 keywords make excelent indexes in hash-table, because it's efficient to check for equality on them. Besides that, you can use whatever you want as an index, including strings 22:29:16 PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iiwrnlmzgpntooxj] has joined #lisp 22:29:25 keywords are also independent from packages (they're always in the KEYWORD package) 22:29:45 Snamich [~Snamich@netblock-68-183-229-245.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:47 interesting 22:30:01 I have probably 10 commands that I need to have mapped 22:30:12 -!- satshabad [~satshabad@134.71.168.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:30:27 realistically less since this emulator is primarily for short tests and debugging 22:30:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-148.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:59 I'm always going to get strings from the hostapp, so for a small number of commands would it still be more efficient to convert to keyword? 22:32:36 forget about efficiency for now 22:32:55 no. You can use strings, in this context 22:34:35 ok, well, back to the thread local vars issue 22:35:05 just be sure to create your hash-table with (make-hash-table :test #'equal) 22:35:08 -!- Quadresce__ [~quad@c-24-4-5-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:35:36 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:35:43 so if I recompile a function in slime... my primary thread will never get that update? 22:36:48 photex: well, if it's already entered a function, the currently-executing call won't be magically updated. 22:37:20 yep, I'm moving that loop body into a new function 22:37:52 but... if changes made to *state* don't affect the other thread 22:37:57 aren't functions the same 22:38:18 You understand wrong. 22:38:18 as in, data bound to an identifier? 22:38:27 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:49 photex: abort! works for me 22:38:52 if you create a dynamic binding for *state*, that new binding is thread-local in SBCL. Default global bindings are global. 22:39:10 pkhuong: according to his source he does not.. he just sets the symbol value 22:39:44 adeht: i know. I'm adressing the misunderstanding on mutating verseus creating a binding. 22:39:51 and if I run his program and slime-connect to it then abort! and type something so read-line returns, it does exit 22:40:27 that is interesting 22:40:41 could this be an osx issue? Are you on Linux? 22:40:56 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:41:00 yes I'm on linux 22:41:01 err, an issue with the build I'm using on osx 22:41:25 you can try printing *state* on each iteration 22:41:31 photex: it's highly unlikely. My current hypothesis is that you're not connecting to the SWANK you think you're connected to. 22:41:46 adeht: what information would that give? 22:42:27 well... if I ,q it kills the app in the shell 22:42:36 and I'm hitting this via slime-connect and not slime 22:42:42 pkhuong: right, I guess it's not useful 22:42:52 josemanuel [~josemanue@27.231.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:45:15 photex: works here as well, on OS X. 22:45:38 satshabad [~satshabad@host-134-71-22-43.allocated.csupomona.edu] has joined #lisp 22:45:38 although it may be that *state* gets a different value before the new iteration.. 22:46:23 for example if he actually sends a msg whose effect is setting state to :browse or whatever 22:46:41 (given that he fixed the EQ issue ;) 22:49:51 well I'm perplexed 22:50:15 if I call (kdi:send "BRON") I see BRON printed to the shell 22:50:29 but kdi:*state* is still :stop 22:51:12 and if I call (kdi:abort!) and then (kdi:send "blah") 22:51:16 again, EQ 22:51:44 I changed eq to eql 22:51:57 why? 22:52:33 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:52:37 didn't Denommus say that eql is used for keywords? 22:52:47 is "BRON" a keyword? 22:53:07 in my cond expression I'm using equal 22:53:23 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@27.231.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 22:53:31 photex: equal for strings, eql for keywords 22:53:42 Denommus: eq works fine on symbols 22:53:51 yep, that's exactly what I've got going on here 22:54:13 adeht: I'm already considering that he could use a number as index 22:54:34 adeht: if he'll use hash-maps, of course 22:55:06 I'm too tired for this discussion :) 22:55:31 -!- Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@e177113253.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:55:33 but clearly, the issue isn't with the code as lisppasted. abort! works fine. 22:55:49 adeht: but yeah, he could use eq for keywords, if he would use keywords (which he won't, btw) 22:57:36 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:57:45 ok 22:58:23 I added a line to the cond expression which will set *state* to abort if the msg is "ABORT" 22:58:34 and I can exit the loop and the app cleanly in the shell 22:58:49 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:39 but calling abort! from slime or calling (kdi:send "ABORT") from slime works 23:00:03 so what doesn't work 23:00:06 so clearly slime/swank has some kind of alternate universe issue going on 23:00:09 oops 23:00:16 s/works/doesn't work/ 23:01:16 maybe it's a buildapp issue 23:01:37 I mean to say, a side effect of using buildapp 23:01:54 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.105.30] has joined #lisp 23:01:55 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 23:02:32 have you tried running the script without going trough buildapp, if that's your hypothesis? 23:02:44 trying that now 23:03:16 interestingly, Xach did not update buildapp docs: Obtaining libraries (use clbuild, LibCL, cl-librarian, asdf-install, etc. for that) 23:03:57 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:04:29 nope, not a side effect of buildapp 23:04:35 exact same behaviour 23:04:49 hi 23:05:05 I'm using sbcl 1.1.6 on OSX 23:05:32 can someone tell me why `ret` is always nil there? https://github.com/Ralt/mdtransform/blob/master/src/tokenizer.lisp#L35 23:05:43 I feel like I'm missing something obvious, but can't tell what. 23:05:54 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:04 Ralt: append is not destructive 23:06:14 oh. 23:06:22 thanks for the obvious reminder :D 23:08:52 ok, I just verified that I can recompile a function in slime and it takes effect as I would have expected 23:09:53 ok, aaand, if I call abort in slime 23:10:05 adeht: oops 23:10:08 and enter text in the shell this exits correctly 23:10:35 so clearly the problem is what I expected to happen if I use kdi:send from slime 23:10:48 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-152-219.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:11:01 because now it's all so clear to me! 23:11:14 send just writes to *output*... 23:11:20 I'm .... so sorry everyone 23:11:29 I can't believe I've just wasted so much time 23:12:16 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 23:12:22 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Client Quit] 23:14:21 printing *state* could've helped then :D 23:14:35 yes 23:14:37 totally 23:15:00 AeroNotix [~xeno@abog202.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:18:08 -!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:19:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@li511-224.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:24:04 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 23:25:43 Bike_ [~Glossina@65-102-1-236.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:15 -!- Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-236.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:26:23 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 23:29:39 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:03 ok, recv is no longer blocking thanks to trivial-timeout:with-timeout 23:33:46 -!- d11wtq [~chris@124-148-163-108.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:36:07 could also try that new system, trivial-raw-io 23:38:22 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Quit: going home] 23:41:23 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.150.79.212] has joined #lisp 23:41:56 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 23:48:52 ASau` [~user@p5797F762.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:49:00 -!- wyan_ is now known as wyan 23:50:00 -!- satshabad [~satshabad@host-134-71-22-43.allocated.csupomona.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:52:12 -!- ASau [~user@p5797F8AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:55:19 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:35 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp