00:01:11 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.118.12.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:01:30 -!- capcrunch [~capcrunch@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:04:42 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:04:55 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:55 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:04:55 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:05:32 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:29 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.225.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:10:18 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:11:35 -!- PuercoPop [PuercoPop@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:c11b] has left #lisp 00:12:01 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:01 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:12:01 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:12:08 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:18:40 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:19:02 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:02 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:19:02 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:25:40 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:27 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:28:05 daniel [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 00:28:29 -!- daniel is now known as Guest18208 00:29:18 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-167-124.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:39 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:57 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:57 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:32:57 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:33:34 zerowaitstate [~dwaites@adsl-75-23-45-178.dsl.lgvwtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:37 -!- ravster [~ravi@71-19-174-130.dedicated.allstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:33:49 maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 00:35:35 totimkopf [~jamesmart@unaffiliated/totimkopf] has joined #lisp 00:36:16 hi, anyone recommend a modern web framework for CL? 00:38:14 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 00:38:31 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:39:39 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:40:00 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:00 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:40:00 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:40:42 totimkopf: not really, i don't like big frameworks :) 00:40:51 totimkopf: the latest craze seems to be about RESTAS 00:42:08 totimkopf: many people start out with hunchentoot + an html generation library (of which many use cl-who, but SEXML doesn't get as much in your way) 00:42:19 -!- alagabes [~alagabes@5.175.161.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:42:40 totimkopf: pavelpenev is writing something resembling a book about restas. that may help. being russian also helps. 00:43:24 madnificent, :) 00:43:25 Quadrescence, memo from pjb: it's probably copyrighted by the ANSI :-) (pprint `(defconstant *cl-symbols* ',(let (l) (do-external-symbols (s "CL" (sort l (function string<))) (push s l))))) 00:45:41 LiamH [~none@96.231.225.69] has joined #lisp 00:46:38 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:47:26 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:48:00 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.28] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 00:48:49 agumonkey [~agu@97.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:40 huchentoot looks spiffy 00:51:10 well, I don't think restas goes beyond 700-800 lines, but I haven't checked recently. If thats big, wait til you see sinatra :) 00:51:19 hunchentoot is really quite great (: 00:53:38 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:53:53 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:54 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:53:54 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:57:33 -!- deveux [~deveux@74.Red-83-45-150.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:57:54 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.97.188] has joined #lisp 01:00:37 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:00:58 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:59 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:00:59 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:01:07 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 01:01:45 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:14 dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:06:39 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 01:08:25 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:25 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:08:25 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:08:25 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:10:30 ipmonger [~IPmonger@c-68-63-82-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:13 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:14:36 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:14:51 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:17:40 whist [~whist@c-98-232-204-76.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:41 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Quit: Ack! Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 01:18:17 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 01:18:28 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-131-254.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:19:49 Can anyone speak to how complete the various SICL modules are? Or how to evaluate whether they can be used by a given project, such as JSCL? The module dependencies aren't quite clear to me. 01:20:19 KDr2 [~KDr2@123.122.120.102] has joined #lisp 01:20:50 I don't think anyone looked at it much beyond beach 01:22:00 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:01 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:22:01 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:22:05 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:22:44 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 01:27:57 redline6561: thanks for the pointer to sicl 01:28:00 That's what I was afraid of. 01:28:16 knob3212 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:35 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28:47 No problem, antonv. Maybe if I get my act together I'll do more than point at minispec, quickdocs, sicl, and jscl saying "these things seem like they might fit together nicely" ;) 01:29:15 Silly jobs. 01:29:19 at least jscl doens't have hash tables, and sicl has some starting points for hash tables 01:29:22 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:22 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:29:22 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:29:30 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:29:36 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:29:58 Well, someone on reddit pointed out that a bytecode interpreter that could handle CLISP's bytecode might be a good idea. Dunno enough to comment on that but it's an interesting point. 01:31:03 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-108-38-175-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:43 I want full CL to JS solution, mature enought to run ASDF, quicklisp, drakma, etc 01:32:13 I also had in mind modularisation of CL similar to what SICL proposes 01:32:15 Anyway, the question is what do SICL modules consider primitives and what can js best provide as lisp primitives re: expressive + fast. 01:32:56 Yeah, I've always thought it was a really neat idea by beach but I have real doubts about the implementations adopting it. 01:32:58 yes, clearly defining what are the primitives whould be good 01:33:31 Still, a "common" standard lib that we could all improve on and reuse w/ new implementations like JSCL seems a very promising thing. 01:33:39 also, aside from SICL, we have several open source implementations now to reuse code from 01:33:47 True. 01:34:18 IMHO such a project has better chances to succeed if we have someone working on it full time 01:34:39 Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.247] has joined #lisp 01:34:40 Even better chances if we have 8 working on it full time 01:34:47 heh 01:34:49 I suppose one - two man years will be enough to finish it 01:34:51 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.247] has quit [Client Quit] 01:35:08 Xach: maybe not 8, but 1-2 full time developers experienced in implementing lisp 01:35:24 for example, hire Clozure Associates (Gary Bayers) 01:35:31 to create JS version of CL 01:35:34 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:35:40 to large extent it will be a porting job 01:35:43 If you're going to dream crazy things, why not go for 8? Or 50? 01:35:46 because many parts may be resuable 01:35:49 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:35:50 pierpa [~user@host249-53-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 01:35:53 heh 01:36:09 You could hire everyone on #lisp! 373 full-time lisp hackers could probably do it in a week. 01:36:10 well, don't hurry to cal lthings crazy 01:36:15 Well, minus the bots. 01:36:20 dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:37:00 I just trying to determine minimum cost of such really mature CL to JS solution 01:37:35 IMHO 2 may years of experienced lisp implementation developer should be enough 01:37:47 ah, hacking in CL again. So very nice. 01:37:59 antonv: What is the source of funding? 01:38:09 crowdfunding 01:38:11 I remember lisp 01:38:24 it was so much more fun than python :( 01:38:27 Xach: 2 man years is not so large number 01:38:51 -!- arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:39:16 Xach: if the developer who agrees to handle the project has proven experince creating CL implementations, people may be willing to fund 01:39:30 and we have several such developers in the community 01:39:39 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:39:44 who suggest development services 01:39:54 clozure.com 01:40:02 sbcl studio 01:40:07 sbcl studio doesn't exist anymore. 01:40:10 and more can be found 01:40:12 CL to JavaScript? 01:41:20 in any case, IMHO if we estimate the cost of the question, there is a good chance to find qualified developers and funding 01:41:21 it's what all the cool kids are doing! ;) 01:41:54 I personaly would donate some money for such a project 01:42:34 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:42:50 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:50 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:42:50 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:43:19 I think a few folks would but not anywhere near enough to finance such a project. I also think it would be harder to find good, willing candidates than you suggest. 01:43:32 antonv: I like the idea, but I don't see it as very realistic. I wouldn't mind being wrong. 01:43:41 Xach +1 01:43:46 what is the risk? 01:43:58 fist we need to define the project - one page of text 01:44:04 then ask clozure.com what is the cost 01:44:04 The risk is that it's a fruitless waste of time for whomever organizes it. 01:44:06 as others 01:44:09 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@14.0.208.39] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:44:14 then run a crowdfunding compain 01:44:32 I have this in mind for quite a long time 01:44:33 Lack of adoption or completion is a serious risk. And a large sink of money and, more importantly, the time of talented hackers. 01:44:41 so probably will spend time on this 01:45:12 intended to run in a browser? 01:45:18 What existing CL software do you want to run in the browser? 01:45:22 erikc: jscl and sicl starting this conversation. 01:45:23 erikc: of course 01:45:27 Zhivago: exactly 01:45:42 It's hard to imagine a tasks an existing implementation wouldn't do a better job of. 01:46:29 Anyway, while new implementations almost always sound fun/sexy, I think an external stdlib would be easier and have a broader impact. Unfortunately, it's about as likely. ;) 01:47:51 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:48:28 -!- knob3212 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:49:25 knob3212 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:26 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:49:49 Well, point is more that CL implementations are mostly valuable in-so-far as they support extant programs. 01:49:53 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:53 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:49:53 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:50:03 Sure. 01:50:16 So, the question is -- do you have extant programs that you want to run in the browser? And if not, perhaps CL isn't an ideal choice for a lisp-in-browser 01:52:18 -!- astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-235-122.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:52:33 i can sort of understand parenscript and clojurescript, which preprocess to JS, though i wouldn't bother with either 01:53:16 i don't really get how a CL system fits into the browser model where switching pages is regularly nuking your state 01:53:31 -!- Henesy [~h3n3sy@adsl-75-23-117-207.dsl.peoril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:55:24 -!- knob3212 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:55:41 Well, you don't need to switch pages as such -- you can use the history navigation api thingy. 01:55:48 knob3212 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:55 I don't know what anyone else has in mind, but some sites don't really work like that. You load up a js app and interact with it without switching, in some cases. 01:56:33 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:56:44 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:56:56 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:31 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-212-240.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:57:38 switching pages is a yesterday's approach 01:58:18 -!- weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:59:30 ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:02:03 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-131-254.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:03:32 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:53 -!- zerowaitstate [~dwaites@adsl-75-23-45-178.dsl.lgvwtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:04:04 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:05 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:04:05 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 02:04:21 -!- knob3212 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:04:23 knob5312 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:30 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:56 -!- leo2007 [~leo@110.172.225.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:06:07 -!- knob5312 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:06:53 knob5312 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:27 -!- Czechton [~Czechton@cpc4-oxfd23-2-0-cust877.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:08:03 Henesy [~h3n3sy@adsl-75-23-69-58.dsl.peoril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:22 btw, C++ to JS, seems to be hight quality: http://leaningtech.com/duetto/ 02:10:31 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:10:35 it's only one of the C to JS solutions 02:10:45 other languages also compile to JS 02:10:59 (Clojure, scheme, python, Ruby) 02:11:09 so IMHO CL should catch up 02:11:16 antonv: won't that provide us with a 15MB javascript file which you need to download before watching the site? 02:11:24 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 02:11:47 madnificent: it's desirable of course to limit the runtime size to the minimum 02:11:59 maybe some kind of autholoading should help 02:12:00 i would assume that running CL in the browser would require a very very good tree shaker 02:12:11 to avoid loading unnecessary parts 02:12:15 or a tree shaker 02:12:18 madnificent: Depending on what you're doing, the JS tree shakers can also work. 02:12:35 (like closure, although that is broken with asm.js currently) 02:12:56 madnificent: probably google clozure compiler (js minification tool, which in particular omits unused modules) chould be exploited 02:13:17 the concept roughly was: load the site, use it, profile it. see what code was ran during that process. package the code that happens in most situations and provide that in a first load-file for the site. 02:13:25 madnificent: it's a question for Investigateion - the fist phase of project 02:13:58 -!- agumonkey [~agu@97.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:14:20 antonv: clozure compiler didn't yield satisfactory results for me with Enyo, so i'm inclined to believe that it only discovers relatively straightforward cases. 02:14:51 madnificent: I don't know for sure 02:14:54 it isn't CL, but the Gambit guy has been submitting bugs to emscripten lately. And I've had parts of OpenDylan working with emscripten. I think someone was experimenting with clisp and emscripten a month or so ago. 02:15:04 madnificent: as far as I remember it relies on youre useage of goog.require 02:15:32 brucem: how did the clisp test turn out? 02:15:33 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.158.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:15:46 brucem: yes, llvm solution is one of the possible path to investigate 02:15:51 antonv: i use google's closure (not clozure) on a C++ codebase compiled to JS with decent results. 02:16:10 antonv: and I recently worked with LLVM people to fix their -mergefunc optimization which is also useful in this situation. 02:16:13 brucem: how do you compile C+ to JS? 02:16:29 madnificent: not sure, he dropped off and didn't come back to #emscripten. 02:16:41 antonv: emscripten. 02:16:52 brucem: any name or nickname, perhaps? 02:17:10 madnificent: I can see if I have it in logs. Not sure. 02:17:31 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:18:17 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:17 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:18:17 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 02:18:22 brucem: BTW, the duetto developers (see my link above), claim their solution is better than emscripten 02:18:39 madnificent: it was jasom (who is here) on February 1 (and only that day). 02:18:47 leo2007 [~leo@110.172.225.137] has joined #lisp 02:19:07 antonv: *shrug*  they haven't shown anything and don't have anything available  so I don't care. :) I ship today not next year. 02:19:47 brucem: how complex is your app? 02:20:20 brucem: in practice, is it significant improvement in convenience to have server and client side in the same lanugage (or you don't have server)? 02:21:07 antonv: that's all off topic for #lisp  but I'll provide details in PM. I just wanted to say that emscripten is a pretty viable option even though it seems insane. 02:21:29 ECL compiles to C 02:21:47 so one of the possible approaches to compile that C by emscripten to JS 02:22:20 brucem: i'll ask if i see him around :) 02:22:26 brucem: thanks 02:22:28 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:22:56 brucem: take it to #lispweb if you find it offtopic for #lisp :) 02:23:00 antonv: exactly. Also, drmeister's work to compile to LLVM. 02:23:13 madnificent: I just didn't think giving details of a C++ codebase seemed relevant here. :) 02:24:52 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:52 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:24:52 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 02:25:19 antonv: i personally find it annoying to think in more than one language. it's a context switch. i'm noticably slower when i have to implement features for which i have to dig both in the lisp as in the javascript source. 02:27:22 madnificent: good 02:27:38 madnificent: then prepare some money to be donated to CL to JS project :) 02:30:08 antonv: well played. i must say that, without further information on the size of the javascript file, i don't feel like the effort would have many real-life uses. i'd be glad to be proven wrong though. 02:30:58 -!- saergsere [~saergsere@96.229.240.188] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:12 madnificent: determining such limitations (runtime size and what applications could use the solution) is the fist (shorter one) phase of the project 02:31:30 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:32:10 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:11 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:32:11 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 02:32:50 i'm looking forward to hearing more about it 02:33:40 ok 02:36:04 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:36:21 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:37:22 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:29 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:39:05 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:06 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:39:06 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 02:44:21 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: honkfestival] 02:45:29 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:24 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 02:46:54 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:51:51 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:51:57 -!- knob5312 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:52:28 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:52:42 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 02:53:05 knob5312 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:02 yay! dlowe just merged my change into local-time. Anyone interested in https://github.com/cddr/delorean being added to quicklisp? 02:58:19 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:59:14 hugod [~user@76.65.140.64] has joined #lisp 02:59:27 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:59:48 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:48 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:59:48 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 03:04:54 cddr: So...with-*-clock is actually mucking with the system-timer? 03:06:27 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06:38 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-212-240.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:05 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:05 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:07:06 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 03:07:06 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-161-84-192.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 03:11:12 knob3212 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:18 -!- knob5312 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:12:41 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl20-201-108.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13:04 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-212-240.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:07 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. Freenode staff: If this is happening too frequently, please set a nickserv freeze on my account, and once my connection is stable, unfreeze the account and /kill me to trigger a reconnect.] 03:14:23 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:23 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:14:24 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 03:14:29 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 03:15:58 -!- knob3212 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:15:58 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-212-240.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:16:22 knob3212 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:50 no, only local-time functions 03:17:15 so get-universal-time would still return the correct time 03:17:46 it requires that the code you're testing is using the local-time library 03:18:12 -!- ianmcorvidae 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joined #lisp 06:58:23 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-212-240.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: undie] 06:59:33 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 07:00:19 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has left #lisp 07:01:24 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-206-168-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:01:59 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:02:12 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.237] has joined #lisp 07:03:37 -!- ASau` [~user@p5797F422.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: reboot.] 07:04:03 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:06:26 ASau [~user@p5797F422.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:07:12 cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-115-61.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 07:07:40 -!- p_l|omoikane [~pl@81-18-213-39.static.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:09:12 -!- knob5312 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:09:25 for clisp users: how can i check how much memory is allocated to clisp, and furthermore expand this value? 07:09:30 i keep getting segfaults:( 07:10:37 leo2007 [~leo@110.172.225.137] has joined #lisp 07:11:12 knob5312 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:28 tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:11:52 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has left #lisp 07:12:55 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.211.139.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:14:42 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:21 -!- sharad is now known as spratap 07:19:41 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-224-007.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:33 ryankarason: (ROOM) 07:28:46 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:31:52 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.235.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 07:32:45 -!- satshabad [~satshabad@pool-173-58-100-240.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:33:02 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 07:35:14 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 07:35:31 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 07:36:13 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-159-92.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:45 -!- syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:42:43 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:44:07 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:48:57 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:49:14 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:51:54 ryankarson, gdb path-to-clisp doesn't help? 07:52:09 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:52:43 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:45 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:53:04 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-184-251-185.lns14.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:53:09 segfault could be caused by a lot of things 07:54:07 -!- knob5312 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:55:23 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-xxpmnfxbykqssbdn] has joined #lisp 07:56:17 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 07:57:33 knob5312 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 07:57:42 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.81.201.108] has joined #lisp 07:58:05 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:14 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 07:58:19 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:58:56 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:00:06 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:02:53 nilsi 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timeout: 272 seconds] 08:49:00 ryankarason: man clisp --> -m $size ; but clisp like any other implementation I know of automatically asks for more memory if it needs to. 08:50:34 pjb: ABCL doesn't. 08:50:40 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:50:47 SBCL doesn't 08:52:34 CCL doesn't, iirc 08:52:42 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 08:52:47 APART from those 08:52:58 :P 08:53:13 CMUCL and SCL don't do so, iirc, either 08:53:19 ECL I think does 08:53:24 (with boehm gc) 08:53:46 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:53:49 ABCL is dependant on host JVM for GC, so that's what regulates that ability :P 08:53:51 -!- schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:54:48 Well, if you call "asking for all the virtual space memory at startup, and letting the OS page in the pages as requested" as "not asking for memore memory if it needs to", right. 08:54:51 p_l|omoikane: obviously 08:55:56 Hello everyone. Which matrix/LA library would you suggest that has usual qualities like performant, easy on memory and a friendly license (these should cover it! :)? 08:56:28 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 08:56:52 -!- whist [~whist@c-98-232-204-76.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 08:57:34 pjb: Well, SBCL doesn't allow you to allocate memory above dynamic-space-size. That's pretty much identical to Java behaviour 08:58:00 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:58:48 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 08:59:47 Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 09:02:22 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-115-61.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:02:32 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:02:39 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:02:45 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-184-251-185.lns14.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:03:05 easiere [~user@50.7.253.58] has joined #lisp 09:08:25 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:09:08 -!- knob3212 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:10:16 schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has joined #lisp 09:11:10 knob3212 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:28 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 09:13:34 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:16:39 josemanuel [~josemanue@217.220.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:19:15 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:22:00 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 09:25:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:25:36 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c-5eeaaa6e-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:27:36 -!- schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:31:34 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:46 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:40 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 09:36:47 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 09:38:24 -!- knob3212 [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:40:01 knob [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:05 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@18.Red-83-36-195.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:40:23 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 09:42:23 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:41 schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has joined #lisp 09:43:34 knob [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:18 loke: pjb: thanks 09:44:28 rszeno: what are commons reasons of segfaults? 09:44:39 ryankarason: Bugs 09:44:48 hmm 09:45:02 mixing libs, 32 with 64 09:45:11 ah intersting. 09:45:18 rszeno: that actually can't happen on most OSes 09:45:27 Calling FFI libs with the wrong arguments 09:45:31 missing links to dynamic linked files 09:45:31 well, i should probably start i am on an ARM system 09:45:37 state** 09:45:41 yes, true 09:46:00 mixing 32 with 64 would get you SIGILL rather than SIGSEGV 09:46:14 kfoo_ [~kfoo@cable-86-56-52-189.cust.telecolumbus.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:29 SIGSEGV just means "access to memory that is not mapped or with wrong permissions" 09:46:48 hmm 09:47:06 i get a SIGSEGV 09:47:19 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:24 if i try to invoke quicklisp.lisp 09:47:31 i get a segfault right away 09:47:34 just use gdb and do a bt after segfault 09:47:53 rszeno: okay thanks i will have to look into that. 09:48:02 never used gdb before. 09:48:06 thanks. 09:48:13 nilsi [~nilsi@c-5eeaaa6e-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 09:48:32 you don't need to much experience for this task 09:48:40 gdb app-name 09:48:40 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:48:48 then r to run it 09:48:55 ah, r 09:48:56 got it 09:49:08 after it fail, bt to see the stack 09:49:14 knob [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 09:49:38 Vicfred [~anon@187.206.82.179] has joined #lisp 09:50:32 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 09:50:59 rszeno: ha, it faults as soon as i call it in gdb without loading anything 09:51:02 http://pastebin.com/L9TBshv0 09:51:12 corrupt stack it assumes. 09:51:29 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:53:37 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 09:55:49 not really sure where to head from here. 09:56:03 i suppose i should uninstall clisp and maybe try compiling it from source 09:56:15 i had originally just pulled it from the debian repos. 09:57:42 tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:57:45 you have a version compiled with debug symbols? 09:58:12 Reading symbols from /usr/bin/clisp...(no debugging symbols found)...done. 09:58:15 apparently not. 09:58:18 on debian is one 09:58:24 a deb i mean 09:58:30 hmm 09:58:47 to install initially i had just ran "apt-get install clisp" 09:59:03 what is the name of the package with the debugging symbols? 09:59:10 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c-5eeaaa6e-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:59:25 http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=clisp&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all&sourceid=mozilla-search 10:00:27 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:00:51 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:04 ryankarason: Try: clisp --version | grep libsigsegv # if it gives you a line such as "libsigsegv 2.8", it's ok. Otherwise, you should probably recompile clisp with libsigsegv. 10:01:06 or maybe not, i don't see anything here 10:01:27 ryankarason: it's possible that apt-get install clisp compiles it without libsigsegv, either by design, or just because libsigsegv is not already installed. 10:02:33 Aw, no, apt-get doesn't compile, it's the distributor who compiled it. I wouldn't rely on the distributors 10:02:51 right, it was a precompiled version 10:02:58 (in gentoo, emerge does compile before each install, so that it can compile with your prefered options). 10:02:59 as why i am saying maybe i should compile it from source 10:03:11 ah, i plan to look into gentoo for my main machine 10:03:16 ryankarason: if you don't have libsigsegv in clisp --version, yes, definitely. 10:03:17 someday:) 10:03:31 rak@raspi:~$ clisp --version | grep libsigsegv 10:03:31 libsigsegv 2.9 10:03:37 Sounds good. 10:03:59 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:04:08 That means that lisp errors won't crash your lisp image. But there could still be bugs or using C libraries via FFI. 10:04:29 (bugs in the implementation or in the modules (which are both written in C)). 10:05:01 pjb, ryankarson, is easy to recompile, apt-get source clisp then cd and dpkg-buildpackage 10:06:25 rszeno: nice, let me try this. 10:06:56 ryankarason: notice that clisp is just a driver. It execs /usr/lib/clisp-2.49/base/lisp.run ; perhaps you should try gdb on /usr/lib/clisp-2.49/base/lisp.run ; the easiest is to attach to the process after having launched it. 10:07:21 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 10:07:25 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.137.28.184] has joined #lisp 10:07:27 You can put a (y-or-n-p "Go on? 10:07:45 ") form at the start of .clisprc.lisp 10:08:12 ehu [~ehu@31.137.209.224] has joined #lisp 10:09:17 Starting program: /usr/lib/clisp-2.49/base/lisp.run 10:09:18 module 'syscalls' requires package OS. 10:09:18 [Inferior 1 (process 15866) exited with code 01] 10:09:19 is better to do this when is compiled with debug symbols 10:10:43 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:10:48 such it says after i run gdb on /usr/lib/clisp-2.49/base/lisp.run 10:11:31 is not a symlink? 10:12:18 i never created a symlink 10:12:27 what is a command to check if symlink? 10:12:36 here is a symlink to /usr/lib/clisp-2.49/full/lisp.run 10:12:47 just ls -l and will see 10:13:09 -!- schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:13:30 or readlink /usr/lib.../base/lisp.run 10:14:23 but i'm not sure if being symlink is a problem, normaly should not be 10:14:53 http://pastebin.com/XCUDnEmj 10:15:03 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:15:03 doesn't seem like it. 10:16:43 ehu` [~ehu@109.34.37.140] has joined #lisp 10:17:04 schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has joined #lisp 10:17:41 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 10:19:38 -!- ehu [~ehu@31.137.209.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:20:12 maybe is better to recompile from sources and reinstall 10:24:36 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:24:57 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-184-251-185.lns14.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:25:00 rszeno: yeah thanks for your help. 10:25:06 i am working on recompling atm. 10:25:20 knob [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:31 you are welcome 10:25:51 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@112.97.192.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:27:38 do you know where the sources.list is 10:27:51 and what i should add to it for the clisp repo 10:28:07 i get E: You must put some 'source' URIs in your sources.list 10:28:09 /etc/apt/ 10:29:04 copy the line with deb and replace deb with deb-src 10:30:12 -!- pierpa [~user@host249-53-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:30:54 and update the repo, apt-get update ofcourse 10:32:22 -!- Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-67.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:32:56 Henesy [~h3n3sy@75.23.124.156] has joined #lisp 10:33:02 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-90-40.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:33:37 one thing you should know, mixed use of aptitude and apt could cause trouble, just in case 10:33:47 alright 10:33:53 thanks much for all your help 10:33:58 it could? 10:34:08 almost done updating, hopefully this works:)!! 10:34:27 yes, corrupt repos, :) 10:34:52 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 10:34:53 really? 10:35:20 yes, had happend to me and i saw to others too 10:35:54 i don't believe it's the result of mixing apt-get and aptitude 10:36:03 but it is 10:36:26 how do you know? 10:36:56 try to update repo from aptitude, then do same thing with apt-get 10:37:05 abeaumont [~abeaumont@18.Red-83-36-195.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:37:12 did that many times 10:37:26 then look for some residual configs and remove them 10:37:41 pellegrino [~pellegrin@85.17.26.2] has joined #lisp 10:37:44 dpkg --get-selections '*' | grep 'deinstall' 10:37:44 and it doesn't make any sense, they use the same code to maniupluate apt files, libapt 10:37:48 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.213.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:38:18 after purge aptitude will try to reinstall purged packages 10:38:35 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38:36 not realy 10:39:29 is suppose dpkg to be the base, aptitude and apt have an alternate development cycle 10:40:05 on lenny apt-get was recommended, later aptitude 10:40:12 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:41:13 at transition from lenny to squeeze utf-8 with apt was ugly broken 10:41:27 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 10:41:32 lenny? what year is today? 10:42:08 you suppose that matter? :) 10:43:23 soon, 8 may, wheezy will be stable 10:43:56 but to be honest i'm not happy, :) 10:44:05 this is off-topic anyway 10:44:24 sure 10:44:31 alright thanks a bunch you all. 10:44:51 running dpkg i can see that i need a bunch of dependencies 10:45:12 just install what it ask 10:45:16 atm i am tired and planning to go to sleep. i will try again later this afternoon, thank again. 10:45:30 i plan to install them, just wanted to say thanks for i rest. 10:45:40 btw use script to record the session 10:46:12 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.213.74] has joined #lisp 10:46:41 ? 10:46:50 type script 10:47:00 ah fancy 10:47:10 neat:) 10:47:11 then all will be in a file typescript, see man script 10:47:34 C-d to quit from script 10:48:12 kk, at first i thought i had read use script to "reload the session" 10:48:25 and i thought what script for what session 10:48:38 :) 10:48:41 lol. well need to rest the noggin. 10:48:50 happy to learn much this morning:D 10:49:03 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[zzz] 10:49:33 cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-71-99.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 10:50:13 -!- ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:50:27 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:50:42 nilsi [~nilsi@94.234.170.110] has joined #lisp 10:51:47 PABLETOH [~PABLETOH@host115.190-230-97.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 10:52:15 m 10:53:16 Bienvenida al canal del Lisp! 10:53:28 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:54:10 :) 10:54:29 pjb: do you know portuguese also? :P 10:55:28 dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has joined #lisp 10:55:38 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 10:56:49 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 10:57:04 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:59:20 -!- jenia [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:05:23 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-72-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:05:51 oudeis [~oudeis@112.97.192.5] has joined #lisp 11:06:02 -!- dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 11:09:16 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:10:47 Kenjin: Argentina speaks spanish. Only Brasil in South America speaks portuguese. 11:11:15 I'm aware :) I'm Portuguese :P 11:11:32 But otherwise, while I don't really speak portuguese (for the phonemes and because I never learned the grammar), I can very easily read it, it being a latin language. 11:12:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:12:30 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.25.151] has joined #lisp 11:16:08 -!- justinmcp_ [quassel@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:3fac] has quit [] 11:16:36 justinmcp [quassel@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:3fac] has joined #lisp 11:17:57 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:18:48 ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.28] has joined #lisp 11:21:19 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:39 Yuuhi [benni@93.198.54.68] has joined #lisp 11:25:50 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:30:02 -!- Mattykins [~matt@69.43.176.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:30:36 Mattykins [~matt@69.43.176.6] has joined #lisp 11:32:46 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:33:04 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@94.234.170.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:33:57 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:38 -!- PABLETOH [~PABLETOH@host115.190-230-97.telecom.net.ar] has quit [] 11:34:40 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:05 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 11:36:03 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 11:41:04 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04fcd7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:29 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:17 nilsi [~nilsi@c-5eeaaa6f-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 11:45:38 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@112.97.192.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:46:09 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-rmcczgujrerkjoao] has joined #lisp 11:47:03 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:48:41 bitonic [~user@dyn1216-249.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:52:47 oudeis [~oudeis@112.97.192.5] has joined #lisp 11:53:07 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:20 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 12:00:50 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 12:01:00 dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has joined #lisp 12:01:41 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-159-92.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:01:54 -!- Henesy [~h3n3sy@75.23.124.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:04:44 -!- _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@91.177.233.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:05:26 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1216-249.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:06:20 _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@109.130.64.11] has joined #lisp 12:07:37 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:07:56 bitonic [~user@dyn1216-249.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:08:12 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:10:29 -!- _Mon_Ouie_ is now known as Mon_Ouie 12:10:33 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:10:34 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@109.130.64.11] has quit [Changing host] 12:10:34 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 12:10:47 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 12:10:50 dkcinimo [~Android@cpe-76-167-44-55.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:11:25 -!- dkcinimo [~Android@cpe-76-167-44-55.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 12:11:44 deech [~user@adsl-172-3-80-92.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:53 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 12:12:40 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:13:42 Hi all, when using SBCL threads why does the following work correctly return 1: `(sb-thread:make-thread (lambda () 1))` while `(sb-thread:make-thread (function (lambda () 1)))` never return from the thread? 12:15:20 threads don't return. 12:15:20 they are both the same 12:15:27 You can join them. 12:15:38 tinderbox [c2ed8e07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.7] has joined #lisp 12:15:56 deech: you must be using some other code 12:16:09 Or the result of sb-thread:make-thread may be random. 12:16:17 stassats: I just tried it out in my REPL, the first gives me # and second #. 12:16:29 has anyone written something like DEFMACRO-WITH-BODY-AND-PREFIX-KEYWORDS that kent m pitman suggests in https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!msg/comp.lang.lisp/O7BOOAL6mUw/W-TF63tVlpQJ 12:16:30 I'm running SBCL 1.1.6 12:16:49 deech: that just happened so you got the return value of make-thread before it finished 12:17:02 deech: try to add a (sleep 2) at the start of the thread. 12:17:22 Then you'll see both return the same thing. 12:17:34 deech: if you do (print *) after that, you'll see that it's now finished 12:17:57 stassats, pjb: You're right! 12:18:07 stassats, pjb: Sorry for the noise. 12:18:50 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:04 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 12:20:17 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:20:27 -!- dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 12:20:44 deech: no problem. What you're observing here is a mutable object (the thread). When it's printed, it is not necessarily in the same state as when you scheduled it to be printed. 12:20:59 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 12:21:57 For another example, compare: (let ((i 0)) (list (progn (incf i) i) (progn (incf i) i) (progn (incf i) i))) vs. (let ((k (cons 0 nil))) (list (progn (incf (car k)) k) (progn (incf (car k)) k) (progn (incf (car k)) k))) 12:24:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:24:50 tinderbox: I usually prefer a form like the following instead: (deffoo :k1 t :k2 42 :definition #'(lambda () ..body)) 12:26:28 tinderbox: (or the (deffoo (:k1 t :k2 42) ..body..)) 12:27:10 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:27:37 tcr: that is one way, but not the way i'd like it 12:27:55 (deffoo (:k1 t :k2 42) ..body..) is the only acceptable way 12:28:00 whether you like it or not 12:28:18 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@112.97.192.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:29:30 i am not looking for selfproclamations of what people think is right. 12:29:33 It depends on your case. Another way might be to move the meta-information into declarations, and parse declarations. 12:30:11 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 12:30:26 Why did you ask the question then? The message seems to include an implementation. 12:30:28 tinderbox: then you shouldn't be asking questions, lest you receive an answer you don't accept 12:30:59 (deffoo (:k1 t :k2 42) ..body..) is a) unambiguous b) widely used, included the standard c) easy to implement 12:31:11 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:21 why adhere to a standard when one knows better? 12:31:41 i guess nobody here actually writes code, thanks for the help. bye. 12:31:42 -!- tinderbox [c2ed8e07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.7] has left #lisp 12:31:48 bye. 12:32:11 what was his question? i came in late 12:32:30 pavelpenev [~quassel@194.141.47.12] has joined #lisp 12:32:34 ahungry: wanting to use (deffoo :k1 t :k2 42 ..body..) 12:33:07 weird 12:33:21 ahungry: don't say that, you clearly don't actually write any code 12:34:26 oudeis [~oudeis@112.97.192.58] has joined #lisp 12:34:50 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34:57 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 12:35:14 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:35:40 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:36:14 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-71-99.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:37:14 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 12:37:33 i write code! i wrote the "hello world" program last week 12:38:09 theos: that doesn't count as "actually", and is in fact a "selfproclamation", which is bad-bad 12:38:10 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04fcd7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:38:18 :( 12:40:33 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-64-86.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:41:56 -!- schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:43:21 -!- arpunk [~user@190.84.40.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:44:28 ahungry_ 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[~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 16:21:30 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abos56.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:23:36 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abos15.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:24:12 ravster [~ravi@66.207.222.14] has joined #lisp 16:25:22 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abos56.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 16:25:37 AeroNotix [~xeno@abos56.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:27:58 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.26.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:31:27 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 16:31:48 agumonkey [~agu@97.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:38 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756095.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:33:06 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:34:11 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 16:34:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-119.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:35:30 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:33 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:35:56 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:37:37 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:41 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@12.155.31.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:38:17 Hi! Is CL-LOG a decent logging framework, or is there something that's considered "better"? 16:44:23 -!- Vicfred [~anon@187.206.82.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:47:16 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-167-124.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:47:26 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.100.99] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:50:29 androcles [~jeff@ip70-187-173-84.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:33 ikki [~ikki@187.208.209.187] has joined #lisp 16:51:03 pnpuff [~338lm@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:51:12 -!- androcles [~jeff@ip70-187-173-84.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:51:13 rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:17 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:51:59 Denommus` [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has joined #lisp 16:52:11 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-212-240.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:33 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:54:00 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:54:38 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:55:51 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:55:52 weird, switched to #lisp, last post is about logging :-) 16:56:08 tigranes: there are several frameworks, i wrote one of them, log4cl 16:56:19 after testing most of them and finding not to my liking 16:56:35 pnpuff` [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:56:47 most people in here consider it a bit over-engineered thought 16:56:47 -!- pnpuff [~338lm@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:08 -!- pnpuff` is now known as pnpuff 16:57:45 that's a bad way to sell it 16:58:08 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 16:59:30 Someday I'll make a slim logging library whose only logging levels are FYI, WTF, and OMG 16:59:42 -!- bitonic` [~user@dyn1220-124.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:46 no LOL? 16:59:58 snafu, tarfu, and fubar? 17:00:02 yeah, LOL can be the debugging level 17:00:16 maxm: Thanks for the suggestion, I'm going to take a look at it 17:00:17 bitonic` [~user@dyn1220-124.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:00:55 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-206-237.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:56 tigranes: if you have any problems open an issue. There is a new version coming up, with lots of insane goodies, slime and emacs integration, and such 17:01:12 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 17:01:40 also more dwim stuff, ie (log:debug a b c) now same as (log:expr a b c), while (log:debug "~a" ...) still does format 17:02:13 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.209.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:02:28 http://i.imgur.com/PKbOnWP.png 17:02:44 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-212-240.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:03:17 maxm: Looks rather nice 17:04:52 maxm: but does it have a commonqt interface? 17:04:56 tigranes: nice stuff won't be in quicklisp for a while, but should be on github shortly (1-2 weeks) 17:05:04 i'm in updating documentation stage 17:05:11 -!- bitonic` [~user@dyn1220-124.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:05:52 stassats: no commonqt interface, but I use it with commonqt very extensively.. Every corner of my trading platform is covered with logging obviously 17:05:57 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:15 are you using the latest commonqt from quicklisp? 17:06:38 *jasom* has a mediumish sized project that should probably switch to using something other than FORMAT for logging 17:06:53 oudeis [~oudeis@120.196.99.103] has joined #lisp 17:07:21 no sorry, still have not switched.. I'm being overwhelmed by changes, still on opensuse 11.4 here, and old commonqt and cffi, had absolutely no time to upgrade everything, with market situation crazy as it is 17:07:50 antgreen [~green@out-on-255.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:59 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.25.151] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:08:11 1 proj at a time, will check out lastest commonqt once I push new log4cl to github 17:08:37 there's a lot of performance changes and bug fixes, but apparently nobody uses commonqt, besides myself 17:08:39 well, and you 17:08:54 honestly at this point I'm afraid to show my stuff 17:09:04 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:09:06 because i'm paranoid about edge 17:09:33 it kills me, coz its awesome, but someone who sees it will still the ideas (trading related, not gui/lisp related) 17:09:57 *maxm* gonna use stumpwm as logging use-case for user manual 17:17:03 erikc [~erikc@209.20.28.194] has joined #lisp 17:17:34 -!- stassats changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: ELS'13 Registration Open, SBCL 1.1.7, CL-PPCRE 2.0.4, DRAKMA 1.3.2, CFFI 0.11.1, Hunchentoot 1.2.17 17:17:41 -!- erikc [~erikc@209.20.28.194] has quit [Client Quit] 17:17:57 erikc [~erikc@209.20.28.194] has joined #lisp 17:18:33 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@66.202.133.178] has joined #lisp 17:18:52 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:19:05 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:20:28 talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:20:40 satshabad [~satshabad@pool-173-58-100-240.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:24:36 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-197-106.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:25:33 -!- syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:56 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@18.Red-83-36-195.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:30:14 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:30:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:30:48 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:31:41 -!- axion_ is now known as axion 17:32:03 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:25 ikki [~ikki@187.208.209.187] has joined #lisp 17:34:42 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [] 17:35:29 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 17:35:40 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:02 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:37:25 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 17:38:01 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 17:38:51 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:56 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:40:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:40:27 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:41:04 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298F2B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:41:29 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:43:25 __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:27 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:37 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:44:21 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 17:46:48 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298F2B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:47:53 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:20 Aiwass [~user@unaffiliated/aiwass] has joined #lisp 17:48:40 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:48:43 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:49:11 bitonic` [~user@151.225.13.74] has joined #lisp 17:50:39 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:51:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:51:53 How is possible avoid the emblematic "symbolic-numeric mixture" of a simple CAS? I want avoid the "Fortran code generation" needed for numerical computation. I'm looking for an hint. 17:52:32 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:54:28 Why do you want to avoid them? 17:55:28 pnpuff: otherwise, have a look at sicm http://mitpress.mit.edu/SICM it may contain some hints. 17:56:41 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.137.28.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:54 On a different topic, how would one simulate #'apply for a macro? i.e. (apply #'foobar 1 2 list-of-args) when foobar is a macro? I may be having a brain fart here. 17:57:25 (defmacro mapply (macro &rest args) `(,macro ,@args)) 17:57:41 (mapply if (= 1 2) 'eq 'ne) 17:58:08 Oooh, nice. Thanks! 17:58:27 tigranes: not really. Think about it. 17:58:46 tigranes: why do you want to do this? 17:58:59 also, expanding macros at run-time is not useful because they don't get access to the lexical environment. 18:00:04 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 18:00:08 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:00:08 *tigranes* scratches his head 18:00:42 What do you want to do? 18:01:12 Bike: Trying to define a macro that defines a function that calls a macro 18:01:40 i mean, why, what's the actual thing you want this for 18:01:52 (defmacro define-function-that-calls-macro (fname mname &rest margs) `(defun ,fname () (,mname ,@margs))) 18:02:17 http://paste.lisp.org/display/136952 18:02:49 The flet is the part giving me problems 18:03:10 tigranes: yes, just (,mname ,@margs) should do the trick. 18:03:27 why are you using setf? 18:03:30 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 18:04:43 stassats`: because CL-LOG documentation used it. I generally use setq, but figured there must be a reason for setf 18:05:07 you shouldn't be using either 18:06:05 (append (list a b c) y) => (list* a b c y) 18:06:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:06:50 of course, backqoute would be even better 18:06:53 If log-manager-message is a macro, then you need to wrap it in a macro, not a function. Use macrolet. 18:06:53 18:06:56 stassats`: Now that you mention it, yeah, I can just put the forms in the LET 18:06:56 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:57 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:06:57 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 18:07:07 Otherwise: (flet ((cl-log:log-message (category description &rest args) "A wrapper ..." (apply (function cl-log:log-manager-message) manager category description args))) ,@body) 18:07:57 Belali [Belali@dslb-188-100-142-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:30 *tigranes* had macrolet originally, but then thought I needed functions for closure over #:MANAGER gensym 18:09:14 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.104.196] has joined #lisp 18:09:35 stassats`: Thanks for the tip, didn't know about list* 18:09:41 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:09:52 No need to, since it's in the lexical scope. macrolet gets it. 18:10:03 -!- Belali [Belali@dslb-188-100-142-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 18:10:05 -!- p_l|omoikane is now known as grumpy_cat 18:10:06 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:26 Oh, good to know :) 18:10:55 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:57 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-120-170.w92-156.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:11:04 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abos56.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 18:11:52 Is it possible to have nested backquotes, by the way? I thought not... 18:11:58 it is 18:12:11 it is bad for your mental health, though 18:12:25 for example, in macro defining macros defining macros. 18:13:24 I mean, you can find one or two such macros in the CL free software. 18:14:06 I see, thanks 18:14:34 pjb, stassats`: Thanks for the help 18:14:37 Just remember, one of the bits of magic is ,', 18:14:50 nc_ [~cn@dslb-178-005-157-133.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:02 Oh, yeah, I remember seeing that somwhere 18:15:41 Ah, but do you know why and how it works? 18:15:54 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 18:15:55 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 18:18:15 deveux [~deveux@74.Red-83-45-150.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:28 __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:00 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 18:20:26 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 18:21:05 pierpa [~user@host249-53-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:22:35 freik [~freiksene@46.19.39.244] has joined #lisp 18:23:20 AeroNotix [~xeno@abos56.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:25:25 pjb: sorry but the linkage specification syntax of the cffi libs is standardized or not? 18:25:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:25:37 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:25:41 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:26:34 __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:34 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.225.36.182] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:39 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 18:27:26 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 18:28:12 pnpuff: I'm not sure what you're refering to. 18:28:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-213.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:51 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-213.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:29:10 http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/html_node/define_002dforeign_002dlibrary.html#define_002dforeign_002dlibrary 18:29:45 nyef: You should enlighten us 18:30:06 No, you should work it out for yourselves. d-: 18:30:14 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:11 cddr: basically, when you have an external variable, you may want to put its contents in the outer backquote, or in the inner backquote. For the outer it's easy: ,var ; for the inner it's not as simple as ,,var (think about it). 18:31:13 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.225.36.182] has joined #lisp 18:31:54 pjb: for example what do you think about linking in the Senax environment? 18:32:21 Do you have a library? 18:32:35 http://people.csail.mit.edu/alan/ftp/pepm99.ps.gz 18:32:55 cddr: ^ 18:33:08 -!- freik [~freiksene@46.19.39.244] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:33:16 freik [~freiksene@46.19.39.244] has joined #lisp 18:33:36 pnpuff: still don't know what you mean. google's useless here. 18:33:41 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:34:19 -!- freik [~freiksene@46.19.39.244] has quit [Client Quit] 18:35:50 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:16 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:37:33 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-228-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:06 freik [~freiksene@46.19.39.244] has 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3.1415927 3.1780539)) ? 19:40:36 schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has joined #lisp 19:41:16 what else should it return? 19:41:41 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.209.187] has joined #lisp 19:41:57 NUMBER, obviously. 19:42:13 Ramirez57 [~Ramirez57@c-174-54-148-204.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:11 nyef: and not T? 19:43:38 That's also plausible. 19:43:58 stassats`: maybe #C(3.1780539 3.1415927) 19:44:11 pnpuff: #C is not a type. 19:44:14 Is (defun type-of (obj) (declare (ignore obj)) t) even remotely conforming? 19:44:17 pnpuff: are you thinking it through? 19:44:56 nyef: nope 19:45:19 nyef: The type returned by type-of is always a recognizable subtype of the class returned by class-of. 19:45:26 I was surprised to find out that early Crash Bandicoot games used LISP 19:45:35 Ah, fair enough. 19:45:40 or even, For any object that is an element of some built-in type: 19:45:51 -!- nc_ [~cn@dslb-178-005-157-133.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:45:51 Ramirez57: A lisp, but not CL  their custom GOAL language. 19:45:51 the type returned is a recognizable subtype of that built-in type. 19:46:03 sellout-: Yeah... 19:46:07 so, either you have everything to be of type T and have class T 19:46:12 Ramirez57: it was, however, implemented in AFAIK Allegro Common Lisp 19:46:34 which doesn't work for the class STANDARD-CLASS 19:48:55 Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-86.lightwire.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:55:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:55:43 hey guys, trying to use a core image dump, I keep hitting this error 19:55:44 CORRUPTION WARNING in SBCL pid 2652(tid 3084453568): 19:55:44 Memory fault at 1 (pc=0x8086b1d, sp=0xb78bfc04) 19:55:57 Anyone ever have an issue with sbcl dumps before? 19:56:06 Sorry, that is with the :executable t flag 19:56:10 so it is when im' running the completed image 19:56:13 GrayMagiker [~Steve@c-67-164-129-95.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:53 Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@e177113042.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:58 Only thing that comes to mind for such a scenario is that you might be running it from a directory with non-ascii characters in the path. 19:57:03 ok, stassats` : I usually write ln(-x)=ln|-x| + i*pi ,anyway ln|-x| commutes with i*pi under + 19:58:29 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.105.239] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:58:36 nyef: thanks, I have a dash in the path, ill try some testing 19:59:12 non-ascii and LANG is C 19:59:27 A dash in the path shouldn't do any damage... 19:59:30 but wait, 1.7.3 fixes that! 19:59:43 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.209.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:59:58 nyef: maybe it's mdash or something 20:00:08 Maybe. That'd do it. 20:00:22 or is it 1.1.7.3 20:00:47 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:01:25 I'm sorry that I missed 1.1.2.3. 20:01:58 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@46.19.39.244] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:02:14 freiksenet [~freiksene@46.19.39.244] has joined #lisp 20:05:02 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:05:42 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abos56.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 20:06:00 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-228-79.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:24 __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:28 hello. is somebody familiar with how common lisp handles its timezones? because I do not quite get the timezone-value returned by (get-decoded-time) 20:08:00 for me it is -1, and the clhs has an example where it is 5 for EDT 20:08:05 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@1-164-214-14.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:08:10 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:08:13 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:13 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:15 I am GMT+2, and EDT should be GMT-4 20:08:40 sdemarre [~serge@198.146-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:08:49 Standard or daylight time? 20:09:16 And please remember that CLHS examples are not normative. 20:10:13 nyef: EDT is eastern daylight time afaik. the example comes from http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_get_un.htm 20:11:07 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:11:07 -!- gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:11:21 -!- vi1 [~vi1@93.92.216.186] has quit [] 20:11:22 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 20:11:27 -!- erikc [~erikc@209.20.28.194] has quit [Quit: erikc] 20:11:31 gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has joined #lisp 20:11:31 clhs time zone 20:11:40 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:11:50 Hrm. 20:12:04 clhs 25.1.4.1 20:12:04 Decoded Time: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/25_ada.htm 20:12:27 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:12:44 Okay, a time zone is for standard (not daylight) time only, and there's a separate flag for daylight savings time. 20:13:10 (See the glossary entry for "time zone" as well as the description of "Decoded Time".) 20:13:14 nyef: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_t.htm#time_zone 20:13:30 Yes, that glossary entry. 20:13:47 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:50 I was trying to get specbot to come up with the URL, since supposedly it does glossary lookup these days. 20:14:30 nyef: well, what this sais appears to be ... wrong. 20:14:39 nyef: or at least hard to understand 20:14:53 for me its 22:14, and get-decoded-time agrees with that 20:15:00 but current UTC is 20:14 20:15:30 What's your standard time zone, and are you in daylight savings or not? 20:15:42 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:15:43 __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:11 It looks to me as though your daylight savings flag would be set. 20:16:29 nyef: ah ... 20:16:32 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@58.190.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 20:16:35 nyef: ok, I see. 20:17:11 nyef: yes, I am in CEST, sorry, I did not understand what "daylight saving time" meant ... (it's "summer time" for me ...) 20:17:30 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:18:03 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.209.35] has joined #lisp 20:18:25 __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:22 nyef_ [~nyef@pool-70-109-140-43.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:28 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:21:21 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 20:21:29 why in sbcl (type-of(sqrt -4)) gives (COMPLEX (SINGLE-FLOAT 0.0 2.0)) , so a complex number (of single-floats) even if -4 is a fixnum/integer? 20:21:44 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-161-84-192.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:22:19 Type contagion? 20:24:16 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 20:26:35 nyef_: ok.., but sqrt is not real-double-sqrt 20:26:57 transcendental functions are allowed to return floats like that, iirc 20:27:13 er, sqrt isn't transcendental, but you know what i mean. 20:27:53 "If number is a positive rational, it is implementation-dependent whether root is a rational or a float. If number is a negative rational, it is implementation-dependent whether root is a complex rational or a complex float." 20:28:26 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:28:46 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-054-189.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:29:02 -!- `fogus is now known as fogus|gone 20:29:12 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:29:22 Bike: determining rightly types (at compile time) is important for efficient code. 20:29:22 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:30:01 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:30:03 What does that have to do with anything 20:30:13 abeaumont [~abeaumont@243.Red-79-156-231.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:30 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-228-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:33:37 nyef_: I just found out that (decode-universal-time (get-universal-time) 0) returns gmt :3 20:33:46 -!- sdemarre [~serge@198.146-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:35:42 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@46.19.39.244] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:35:57 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 20:36:11 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:35 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:41:39 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:36 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-104-178.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:45:01 -!- Ramirez57 [~Ramirez57@c-174-54-148-204.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: irc2go] 20:48:12 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:50:13 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 20:52:52 does clisp have any setting or plugin to make the interactive shell vi-like? 20:53:18 ryankarason: I don't know for sure, but it uses readline, so I think you can set that with a readline init file. 20:53:23 -!- Aiwass [~user@unaffiliated/aiwass] has left #lisp 20:53:23 or maybe an environment variable. 20:53:42 alright, thanks for some key words:) 20:54:27 ryankarason: ~/.inputrc is the config file, "set editing-mode vi" seems like the option to use 20:54:40 *Xach* has not tested, just read "man readline" 20:54:42 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:58:46 Xach: fantastic!!! 20:58:51 thank you very much. 21:00:12 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:01:33 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-185.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:01:43 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:01:45 daniel` [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 21:01:49 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-43-116.bna.bellsouth.net] has 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[~ikki@177.224.209.35] has joined #lisp 22:34:27 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@mobilenet1-4-159-57.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 22:35:16 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: supernova explosion] 22:35:40 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1177937461.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:35:57 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 22:36:59 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:39:41 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:40:31 -!- Ammy [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:43:28 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:45:06 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:45:12 AeroNotix [~xeno@abos56.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:47:20 I'm looking for some opinions: I started writing an emulator for a serial device in Python at work and I'm using socat to create the virtual port which allows me to just use stdin and stdout for communication in the Python script. 22:47:33 -!- sesam123 [~unlucky20@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: sesam123] 22:47:39 I figured this is probably the first practical thing I've come across which would be good for learning more about Lisp 22:48:13 the emulator is actually run as a child process by socat 22:48:32 so I wanted to know if it's possible to create a remote repl to connect with slime 22:48:40 while the app is running of course? 22:48:46 photex: yup 22:48:59 (swank:create-server :dont-close t) 22:49:17 nyef_: doesn't swank listen on localhost by default? 22:49:25 Yes. 22:49:36 And if you want anything else, that's why SSH has port forwarding. 22:49:48 nyef_: fair enough 22:50:10 Though if you're dealing with redirected standard I/O streams, you are likely to have trouble with CL unless you know what you're doing. 22:50:21 Or if you don't care about anybody connecting to your slime, tell it to start the server on a public IP 22:50:21 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:29 awesome 22:50:37 this will just be on a laptop 22:50:52 so localhost is all you need. 22:50:55 yep 22:51:02 I though love was all you needed? 22:51:24 love is an alias for localhost in most of my machines 22:51:28 works out 22:51:32 Heh! 22:52:14 And now I'm at that wonderful point where the most natural way to express the loop logic that I need is to use a TAGBODY. 22:53:13 Unless it isn't, but I think that it might be. 22:56:47 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-207-10-139-148.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 22:58:51 -!- schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:59:36 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 23:00:03 eichelbart_ [~eichelbar@91-64-170-148-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 23:00:17 #emacs couldn't help me, so anyone knows how to change the keybinds on slime-repl-mode? 23:00:24 I want to redefine C-up and C-down 23:00:36 define-key 23:00:59 doesn't work 23:01:13 Do those do the same as M-p/M-n by default? 23:01:17 the keymap is in slime-repl-mode-map 23:01:19 LiamH [~none@96.231.225.69] has joined #lisp 23:01:35 (global-set-key (kbd "C-") 'something) 23:02:21 pjb: doesn't work. That's the first thing I did 23:02:42 I tried to (define-key slime-repl-mode-map (kbd "") 'windmove-up), also without success 23:02:56 well, I gotta leave now. Thanks and goodbye 23:03:10 -!- eichelbart [~eichelbar@24.134.37.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:03:11 -!- Denommus` [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:05:22 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 23:05:26 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.237] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:05:51 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:10:30 Is there some way to express to SBCL that, if a FIXNUM vaue overflows, I'd like it to wrap around to a negative fixnum? 23:11:02 Preferably without lying to the compiler, of course. 23:11:29 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-177-66-41.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:11:30 nyef_: negative fixnum? not 0? 23:11:43 Right, not zero. 23:11:44 nyef_: (mod x most-positive-fixnum) will get you wrap-around to 0 23:12:00 what, how would that work? 23:12:26 nyef_, doesn't sbcl have the smarts to optimize mod fixnum arithmetic? e.g. if you MOD? 23:12:30 nyef_: that doesn't work with the fixnum representation though; using an unboxed word seems better for this 23:12:38 or maybe that's just for LOG* functions 23:12:44 Okay, what I have is an unboxed aligned doubleword pointer that I've convinved the compiler to interpret as a FIXNUM... 23:13:35 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 23:13:55 Quadrescence: MOD doesn't work if you want to allow negative values. 23:14:29 nyef_: I would treat it as unsigned-byte 64 and then manually fixup to be negative on overflow 23:14:35 ... and I need to step through my address space, and if the high bit winds up set then the high bit winds up set, I'd still like to be holding a FIXNUM. 23:14:48 Ideally purely in terms of FIXNUM arithmetic. 23:15:31 nyef_, well MOD - offset 23:15:48 aren't the tagbits in the lsb position? if so why wouldn't it wrap over to negative 23:17:12 adeht: Exactly. I WANT it to wrap over to negative. But how do I tell the compiler to do so without lying? 23:17:20 safety 0? 23:17:29 I think that counts as lying. 23:18:05 does REM ameliorate your problem with MOD? 23:18:21 I... don't know, actually. 23:19:26 nyef_: spot on with redirected standard IO 23:19:36 -!- wc [~a@173.254.255.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:19:57 rather than *standard-output* going back to socat, I see it in my slime session 23:20:17 photex: There's a couple ways to make SBCL not emit its startup banner, but you still lose with SLIME's I/O redirection. 23:20:40 I haven't gotten to the part where I worry about that :) 23:20:42 There are also a couple of ways to get your paws on the original I/O streams if necessary. 23:20:49 I'm just trying the most simple echo setup 23:21:09 I have a send and recv function 23:21:16 One of them is using SYMBOL-VALUE-IN-THREAD, one of them is to save off the streams before starting the SWANK server. 23:21:26 There's probably at least one more. 23:21:38 nyef_: make a fd-stream from fds 0/1 23:22:02 I'll try saving off the streams first 23:22:13 See? At least one more. (-: 23:25:47 -!- kennyd [kennyd@78-1-183-200.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:26:46 cool, saving off the streams works :) 23:28:18 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-207-10-139-148.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:28:34 now to figure out how to read-line with a timeout 23:31:57 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:32:03 ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:34:29 I believe the term you want is "deadline". 23:36:53 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-177-66-41.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:37:20 kfoo_ [~kfoo@cable-86-56-52-189.cust.telecolumbus.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:09 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abos56.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 23:40:36 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:00 What's the Lisp convention for a project's directory structure? Lots of very long files in one directory? 23:41:17 Aethaeryn: the convention is to use your brains. 23:41:24 Do as you wish. 23:42:00 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 23:42:27 UML has notations to denote structures greater than objects. So methodologies that secreted UML must probably give some indications and heuristics on how to structure projects. 23:42:33 Aethaeryn: it varies. there isn't one dominant style that I can detect. 23:42:51 -!- seangrove [~user@c-24-5-81-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:43:23 Principles like decomposing into independent modules, with small interfaces and few dependencies. 23:44:26 < pjb> Do as you wish. <- No wonder Java is more popular. ;-) 23:44:36 There's an obvious mapping between a project structure, and directories and files to be established. 23:44:47 Aethaeryn: why? People don't like to do as they wish? 23:45:13 Apparently not. A lot of languages have rigid directory conventions. 23:45:27 seangrove [~user@c-24-5-81-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:43 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:45:46 nialo [~nialo@ool-182d186a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:48 -!- kfoo_ [~kfoo@cable-86-56-52-189.cust.telecolumbus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:45:49 Well, when you have a hammer 23:46:11 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-207-10-139-148.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 23:46:23 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:07 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:37 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:48:19 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:48:57 ASau` [~user@p5797F8AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:51:01 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.225.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:52:48 -!- ASau [~user@p5797F422.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:53:56 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:54:55 daniel` [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 23:54:59 arpunk` [~user@190.84.40.17] has joined #lisp 23:55:38 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 23:56:42 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@66.202.133.178] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 23:57:09 -!- arpunk [~user@190.84.40.17] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:59:54 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@mobilenet1-4-159-57.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving]