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Like looking through someone's diary. 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07:06:16 ehu [~ehu@46.44.153.152] has joined #lisp 07:07:25 -!- knob3212 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:07:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@64-200.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:08:05 knob3212 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:06 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-183-184-43.lns17.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:09:58 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:10:30 Joreji [~thomas@64-203.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 07:10:38 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:11:24 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:11:41 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 07:12:23 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:14:13 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:14:17 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.63.106] has joined #lisp 07:14:24 -!- cades [~mac@1-169-131-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:16:13 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 07:16:56 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:17:19 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:19:11 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.10] has joined #lisp 07:19:11 -!- knob3212 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:39 knob3212 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:55 momo-reina [~user@217.23.15.245] has joined #lisp 07:23:08 Cymew [~user@fw01.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 07:23:35 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:23:35 -!- humbug [~humbug@123.201.97.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:24:03 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:24:22 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:27:14 How to change *package* automatically when entering REPL ? 07:27:15 sw2wolf, memo from pjb: there's no such thing as #'CL:IN-PACKAGE. CL:IN-PACKAGE is a macro. 07:27:15 sw2wolf, memo from pjb: that's why there's a -p package option to clisp. 07:27:58 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-146-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:58 sw2wolf: use in-package in your initialization file. 07:29:08 sw2wolf: (that works for sbcl, at least) 07:30:00 H4ns: not work in ~/.clisprc ! 07:30:10 cades [~mac@NCTU-Wireless-NAT221.nctu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 07:30:35 sw2wolf: i don't use clisp, sorry 07:32:03 minion: i use (ql:quickload :Foo) in ~/.clisprc, but `clisp -p Foo` cannot find it 07:32:04 what is ``it''? 07:32:15 Foo 07:32:33 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:32:53 -!- rrradical [~rrradical@209-6-197-118.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:33:19 sw2wolf: your .clisprc is probably loaded after clisp attempts to change the package according to the -p option 07:33:27 sw2wolf: by why do you use clisp anyway? 07:33:41 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-183-184-43.lns17.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:34:18 H4ns: because i am using stumpwm and clisp can produce smallest stumpwm 07:34:44 and you're very tight on memory, right? 07:35:12 yeah, this box has only 512M DDR2 RAM 07:35:39 morning 07:35:53 ehu: hi 07:35:53 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-149.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:36:28 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:36:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-198.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:37:14 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:37:59 -!- frkout [~frkout@124x35x85x74.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:10 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:29 frkout [~frkout@124x35x85x74.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:38:36 -!- GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:39:04 H4ns: (in-package ...) indeed works in SBCL, weird CLISP ! 07:42:36 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:43:19 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:45:19 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-167-250.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:46:16 kanru` [~kanru@106.Red-83-46-193.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@64-203.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:51:03 -!- knob3212 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:51:53 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-202-187.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:51:58 knob3212 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:41 -!- frkout [~frkout@124x35x85x74.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:53:22 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:56:06 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:56:52 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:57:09 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 07:57:43 -!- cades [~mac@NCTU-Wireless-NAT221.nctu.edu.tw] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:57:51 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:57:52 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:57:54 Joreji [~thomas@64-203.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 07:58:09 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 07:58:51 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [] 07:58:55 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 07:59:13 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Quit: Ack! Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 07:59:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:00:22 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-167-250.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:00:33 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 08:00:36 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 08:01:22 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 08:02:17 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:07:47 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-167-250.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 08:10:18 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:13:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:15:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:15:18 sw2wolf: (package-name (find-package :Foo)) 08:25:34 bitonic [~user@151.225.36.236] has joined #lisp 08:27:55 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:28:09 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.226.67.188] has joined #lisp 08:28:38 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 08:30:16 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:46 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:30:50 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:31:45 w37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has joined #lisp 08:34:18 Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-35.isr.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 08:34:23 ogamita: Foo is loaded but (in-package :Foo) in ~/.clisprc doesnot work 08:34:35 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:35:03 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35:16 Kenjin_ [~kenjin@193.136.207.91] has joined #lisp 08:35:18 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 08:36:06 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:36:52 -!- ehu [~ehu@46.44.153.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:37:08 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:38:44 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-35.isr.uc.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:39:27 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 08:40:03 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:40:09 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 08:40:52 davazp [~user@31.200.165.130] has joined #lisp 08:41:33 frkout_ [~frkout@113.37.230.101] has joined #lisp 08:42:07 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@113.37.230.101] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:42:11 frkout [~frkout@124x35x85x74.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:42:29 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 08:42:33 -!- zorkmoid [c2ed8e07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:43:01 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:43:11 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 08:44:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:45:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:47:00 sw2wolf: what is the result of (package-name (find-package :Foo)) ? 08:47:20 Try: (string= "Foo" (package-name (find-package :Foo))) 08:47:36 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 08:48:21 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 08:48:48 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.161.47.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:49:34 vi1 [~vi1@93.92.216.186] has joined #lisp 08:50:32 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 08:51:15 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 08:51:33 hi, is there a way to declare global non-special var ? 08:51:46 -!- frkout [~frkout@124x35x85x74.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:42 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 08:52:46 ogamita: (string= "MONEY" (package-name (find-package :money))) => t 08:53:03 money is our package 08:53:29 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 08:54:49 leo2007 [~leo@110.172.225.137] has joined #lisp 08:54:49 The problem is : (in-package :money) works if entered manually in REPL. But doesnot work when in ~/.clisprc 08:56:40 anyone? -- is there a way to declare global non-special var ? 08:57:08 vi1: as far as i understand other than they are being thread local, special variables are globals with one simple yet very effective feature (lexical binding of them), if you don't use that and use setq everywhere. it should be just like global 08:57:09 vi1: what is it that you're really asking for? 08:57:22 frkout [~frkout@124x35x85x74.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:57:57 frkout_ [~frkout@113.37.230.101] has joined #lisp 08:58:14 vi1: i.e. what do you want to achieve? 08:58:20 in On Lisp *cont* is global, but no special if I use it like (setq *cont* #'identity) I get warnings 08:58:57 vi1: use (defvar *cont*) 08:59:05 it will be special 08:59:09 vi1: and? 08:59:33 vi1: what is your problem with *cont* being special? 08:59:39 the use of *cont* in On Lisp requires it is NOT special 08:59:45 vi1: you mean *cont* declared toplevel? it is not global, it is still lexical binding if you dont declare it special or declare with defvar/defparameter 08:59:46 vi1: aha? 08:59:54 vi1: why does it require that? 08:59:57 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@113.37.230.101] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:00:17 -!- momo-reina [~user@217.23.15.245] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:58 cades [~mac@123-195-52-75.dynamic.kbronet.com.tw] has joined #lisp 09:00:59 it is not lexical binding, (setq *cont* 'bla) 09:01:32 vi1: it is not binding, right. 09:01:39 vi1: what is your problem with the specialness? 09:01:53 -!- frkout [~frkout@124x35x85x74.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:01:58 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 09:03:12 The use of *cont* in Onlisp requires it's not special cause in macros it's sometimes is taken from lex env, sometimes global value 09:04:09 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@111.161.70.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:04:36 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:04:38 We can forget about OnLisp, suppose I just need variable with (symbol-value 'x) set 09:04:55 and I don't want to see warnings each time 09:06:46 vi1: use SYMBOL-VALUE? 09:06:59 Where do I pay for this year's ELS? I think I got ECLM sorted out, not sure about ELS. 09:07:25 registration for ELS should open very soon 09:07:35 vi1: (setf (symbol-value 'x) 'y) not enough? 09:08:04 Krystof: yay 09:08:24 -!- knob3212 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:08:50 no, compiler then warns on it's use in, say, function definition 09:08:58 knob3212 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:32 it's annoying and I can't find how to supress the warn 09:09:56 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:00 vi1: what warning do you get when using SYMBOL-VALUE? 09:10:37 sbcl ; caught WARNING: 09:10:37 ; undefined variable: B 09:11:01 use a symbol-macro 09:11:14 vi1: so you did not quote the B? 09:11:43 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:12:28 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 09:12:46 (setf (symbol-value 'b) 'bla) (defun foo () b) 09:13:25 (defvar *foo* nil) (define-symbol-macro foo *foo*) 09:13:27 jsnell: I don't need symbol-macro 09:13:50 well, have fun achieving what you want then 09:14:17 vi1: you use (symbol-value 'b) and (setf (symbol-value 'b) ...) 09:15:27 jsnell: in your code, it will be special var 09:15:30 vi1: (define-symbol-macro silly-variable (symbol-value 'silly-variable)) 09:15:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:15:52 jdz: it can work 09:15:54 no, it won't be 09:16:03 why? 09:16:04 vi1: are you saying that in on lisp, there is a code sample which has a variable *cont* that is treated both as a lexical variable and as a "global" (whatever that means)? 09:16:06 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:16:16 vi1: could you tell me on what page that happens? 09:16:33 why would it be? I think you don't understand symbol macros 09:16:33 Quote from onlisp "Thats why *cont* is given its initial value 09:16:34 in a setq instead of a defvar: the latter would also proclaim it to be special" 09:16:45 vi1: what page? 09:16:49 page 268 09:16:51 H4ns: 267 09:17:05 specifically, symbol macros will be shadowed by lexical binding 09:17:32 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:17:57 jsnell: maybe, I'll check 09:18:17 zickzackv [~faot@g225063161.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:18:25 ah. one of the weirder parts of on lisp 09:18:38 vi1: my advise: read it as satire 09:19:21 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:21:56 jsnell: indeed, what a strange property 09:22:43 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:22:55 I thought symbol-macro behavior as I if I used what it substitutes 09:24:11 At least it would be less surprising 09:24:32 -!- knob3212 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:24:50 thx all 09:24:50 a strange property? what else do you wish it did? 09:25:03 knob3212 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:13 it allows symbol macros to behave as if they are variables 09:30:28 frkout [~frkout@12.117.131.180.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:35 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 09:30:42 -!- quackv4 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:30:58 frkout_ [~frkout@12.117.131.180.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:10 quackv4 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has joined #lisp 09:33:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@64-203.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:34:34 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 09:34:59 -!- frkout [~frkout@12.117.131.180.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:37:02 stassats: well, it surprised me 09:37:29 now, that is strange 09:38:24 setmeaway [stemearay@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 09:38:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:39:02 kinda corner case when it "refers" to special var 09:39:34 NeverMined [~never@69.209.225.190] has joined #lisp 09:40:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:41:25 corner case? what do you mean? 09:42:14 is on lisp your first book? it 09:42:20 's harmful as a first book 09:43:27 not first and I already read it and enjoyed:) 09:43:42 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:43:55 but it got you confused with respect to variables 09:44:01 corner case in the same sense as let binding for special vars 09:44:26 i don't understand what corner case are you talking about 09:44:42 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:45:01 -!- knob3212 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:45:27 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 09:45:54 Joreji [~thomas@64-203.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:57 knob3212 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:34 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-201-217.uio.no] has joined #lisp 09:46:37 if you think about symbol-macros as a shortcut for what is substitutes 09:46:45 which is intuitive 09:46:49 i think about symbol-macros as symbol-macros 09:47:05 you'll be surprised 09:47:09 good for you 09:47:12 knob5312 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:31 yes, you're in a lot of surprise if you will try to use intuition instead of documentation 09:48:02 who likes to read docs? :) 09:48:25 people who don't want to be surprised 09:48:43 there is always stackoverflow!1 09:49:38 i don't think i've stumbled into a symbol-macro at all 09:49:54 I read CLTL2 and hyperspec periodically, but it's too boring vs hacking 09:49:55 any good usage examples of it in open source libraries? 09:50:12 clhs with-slots 09:50:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_slts.htm 09:50:17 clhs with-accessors 09:50:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_acce.htm 09:50:23 -!- knob3212 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:50:24 guaqua: see above 09:51:13 thanks, stassats 09:53:05 seems like i'd just use with-slots and with-accessors and in some quite rare corner case use symbol-macrolet by myself 09:53:33 corner cases again? 09:55:49 sorry, wasn't trying to refer to the previous conversation. choice of wording was accidental. just that using symbol-macrolet doesn't seem like something i'd use that often 09:56:02 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:15 you might use it in your own with-x macro, or similar (where you have forms that you reuse over and over again) 09:57:32 another example: when implementing hash functions with repeated shuffles 09:57:35 okay. that sounds reasonable 09:57:55 of course you can use macrolet instead and settle for (x) instead of x 09:59:40 -!- urgosum [~urgosum@host86-168-219-232.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:01:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:01:13 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.217.198.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:02:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:03:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-198.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:08:24 today's hack: converted annoying html at http://cl-su-ai.cddddr.org/ to a file gnus can deal with 10:11:59 ingsoc [~hickin@cpc10-salf5-2-0-cust242.10-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:12:08 hi 10:12:15 what is lisp 1 and lisp 2 10:12:51 ingsoc: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html 10:13:07 -!- knob5312 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:13:40 knob5312 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:56 start from "In this paper, we shall refer" 10:14:15 When did lexical binding (and closures) become commonly used in Lisp? 10:14:15 -!- knob5312 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:14:29 Did people mostly use special binding back around 1985? 10:14:40 probably it came from scheme 10:14:43 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:14:48 knob5312 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:15:50 I'm reading this thread from cddddr from 1985, talking about LET-IF and their use cases for it seems to be somewhat bizarre to my more modern eyes. I think they are "thinking in dynamic bindings"... 10:15:54 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host31-52-58-47.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:16:47 knob3212 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:17:02 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-000-255.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:40 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 10:18:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.3.91] has quit [Changing host] 10:18:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:18:38 loke: iirc the scheme papers are from 1975.. but there was lexical scoping earlier too, though not used by default 10:18:55 loke: here's my fragmented historical understanding: Original Lisp had dynamic binding. Scheme popularized lexical binding in Lisp-land. Maclisp had dynamic binding for interpreted code and lexical binding for compiled code. (ew) CL is sane like scheme. 10:19:10 loke: wikipedia sez: The key insights on how to introduce lexical scoping into a Lisp dialect were popularized in Sussman and Steele's 1975 Lambda Paper, "Scheme: An Interpreter for Extended Lambda Calculus",[14] where they adopted the concept of the lexical closure (on page 21), which had been described in an AI Memo in 1970 by Joel Moses, who attributed the idea to Peter J. Landin.[15] 10:19:28 loke: you can find the details in http://www.dreamsongs.org/Files/HOPL2-Uncut.pdf 10:19:47 -!- knob5312 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:20:20 IIUC, the problem wasn't technical anymore by the 80s, but simply that people didn't grok the difference, or at least not enough to make lexical scoping a clear winner for the default. 10:20:41 I see 10:21:04 it's interesting reading these threads as often they are thinking very differently from the way we look at things today 10:21:09 But... Much is still the smae. 10:21:32 Does standard Scheme have dynamic scoping? 10:21:34 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-188-107-042-186.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:21:47 on [~on@85.Red-193-153-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:02 no 10:22:04 ck`` [~ck@dslb-188-107-042-186.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:10 -!- on is now known as Guest34368 10:22:16 no, but the dynamic parameter srfi is pretty interesting. 10:22:35 how so? 10:23:28 dynamic bindings are first-class objects. You can pass them around, like souped up value cells. 10:25:08 Ahh... In reading the thread further, I see this. It seems like I've come across a perfect example of when lexical binding was starting to become, hmm, "understood". http://cl-su-ai.cddddr.org/msg01304.html 10:25:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:27:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:28:28 pkhuong: I see. parameter objects, unwind protect, and voila, you have dynamic bindings. 10:29:06 -!- gollen [~gollen@159.226.43.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:30:48 luis: no. parameterize sets up dynamic bindings. You really don't want dynamic bindings to depend on dynamic-wind. 10:31:54 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.63.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:32:33 -!- knob3212 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:45 http://cl-su-ai.cddddr.org/msg04863.html <- famous message 10:33:51 pkhuong: the sample dynamic-bind implementation in the SRFI uses dynamic-wind. I don't understand your point. 10:34:19 Sounds like something WJ would love to quote 10:34:31 (the original post, that is) 10:34:44 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:34:53 Is there some place I can read more about LetS? 10:35:11 knob3212 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:28 my guess is that it developed to STREAMS 10:35:29 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@12.117.131.180.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:35:29 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 10:35:33 er, SERIES 10:35:43 frkout [~frkout@12.117.131.180.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:43 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:35:45 Ohhh 10:35:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:35:56 I tried to use SERIES. I didn't like it :-) 10:36:17 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-186-64.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:36:20 I'm surprised though that anyone would suggest that to be an alternative to loop of all things 10:36:25 frkout_ [~frkout@12.117.131.180.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:48 why are you surprised.. it can serve as an alternative 10:37:43 -!- frkout [~frkout@12.117.131.180.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:37:48 frkout__ [~frkout@12.117.131.180.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 10:37:53 luis: that's a sample implementation to prove they can be easily be implemented. It's not a good implementation, and the point of standardising that interface is to allow implementations to do it better. 10:37:59 adeht: for cetain things, yes 10:38:36 momo-reina [~user@217.23.15.245] has joined #lisp 10:38:51 loke: there's another message that gives code using LetS: http://cl-su-ai.cddddr.org/msg04856.html 10:39:16 elia [~elia@93-50-99-219.ip152.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:39:24 The problem with using dynamic-wind to implement dynamic binding is that changing the continuation is linear time in the number of bindings. 10:40:06 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-152.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:40:08 adeht: is that gnus-readable file available somewhere? 10:40:24 -!- knob3212 [~knob@cvx-ppp-66-50-42-97.coqui.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:40:36 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-65-53.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:40:38 jdz: I just made it.. and it's a bit mismunged I guess, but usable. lemme put it online 10:42:08 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@12.117.131.180.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:44:11 jdz: http://adeht.org/temp/cl-su-ai.zip 10:44:13 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:44:48 frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 10:45:00 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 10:45:13 jdz: to use it, unzip and in gnus's group buffer type `G f' and choose the file 10:45:14 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 10:45:59 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.63.61] has joined #lisp 10:45:59 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 10:46:04 adeht: OK, thanks! 10:46:15 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 10:46:58 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:46:59 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 10:47:00 pkhuong: hmm, I don't know what "changing the continuation" means. 10:47:29 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 10:48:11 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 10:48:30 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 10:49:14 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 10:49:31 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 10:50:13 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 10:53:57 Wow. http://cl-su-ai.cddddr.org/msg04848.html 10:55:49 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.238.240] has joined #lisp 10:59:39 luis: invoking a value obtained with call/cc. 10:59:43 xificurC [~xificurC@adsl-dyn236.78-98-85.t-com.sk] has joined #lisp 11:00:22 -!- frkout__ [~frkout@12.117.131.180.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00:50 frkout [~frkout@12.117.131.180.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:19 loke: btw another LetS message: http://cl-su-ai.cddddr.org/msg02263.html 11:03:39 -!- attila_lendvai 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[~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-171-21.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:54:43 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-171-21.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:55:23 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-xrtgvtugmvqmkzcg] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:55:54 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:56:25 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:58:47 frkout [~frkout@12.117.131.180.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:43 Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-35.isr.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 12:01:16 clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:02:33 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@12.117.131.180.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:03:16 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-171-21.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:04:29 dafgard [c2ed8e07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.7] has joined #lisp 12:04:31 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:49 does someone have a hack to generate html tables from common lisp easily? 12:05:27 cl-who ? 12:05:44 -!- kanru` [~kanru@106.Red-83-46-193.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:06:25 i haven't found it to be easy enough .. (:table ... (dolist (x ...) (htm ...)) in all its glory but it is tedious, would be nicer that given a list of items and some header description just generate that. 12:06:31 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ayvqzsxdcwifncdo] has joined #lisp 12:06:53 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:07:28 dafgard: you can write a function to do that.. or if you use yaclml, a nice macro 12:07:53 *dafgard* lookz at yaclml 12:08:04 I had some print-table hack somewhere 12:08:10 kall [~kal@dsl-173-206-223-197.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 12:08:35 thati s kinda what i am looking for ... 12:08:49 i know i could write it myself, but if there is something someone else has written al the better! :-) 12:09:28 ah but it was just printing ascii output.. 12:09:32 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-35.isr.uc.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:09:32 -!- frkout [~frkout@12.117.131.180.tokyo.global.crust-r.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:09:38 i see... 12:09:47 but wait 12:09:53 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 12:10:14 (formatting-table ... (dotimes (i ...) (formatting-row (formatting-cell ...)))) ala clim would be awesome... 12:10:35 dafgard: http://paste.lisp.org/display/136785 some with-table macro with example of use 12:10:52 awesome 12:11:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:11:41 mm... yaclml seems nicer than cl-who... 12:12:30 -!- ryoshu [~ryoshu@83.143.102.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:13:08 seems much easier to mix lisp and markup.. 12:13:16 yeah 12:13:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:13:54 instead of sillyness like (:foo (dolist ... (htm (:p (str ...))))) 12:14:05 stardiviner [~chris@218.74.177.52] has joined #lisp 12:15:09 yep.. it could go even further and eliminate tag/attribute distinction per Naggum.. but I guess it's good enough 12:15:12 -!- nan_ [~user@46.197.112.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:21 what do you mean? 12:16:01 I mean have it take (<:a (<:href "foo") "bar") instead of (<:a :href "foo" "bar") 12:16:18 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:16:30 oh 12:16:35 i see... yeah, that later is nicer 12:16:41 erm former 12:16:45 blech 12:16:50 :-) 12:16:58 now to write a cl-who -> yaclml converter! 12:18:35 ryoshu [~ryoshu@83.143.102.212] has joined #lisp 12:19:23 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:12 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:22:16 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 12:23:13 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:23:50 nilsi [~nilsi@student-246-118.eduroam.uu.se] has joined #lisp 12:24:09 -!- prip_ is now known as prip 12:24:14 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.174.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:05 kanru` [~kanru@106.red-83-46-193.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:48 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g225063161.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:30:42 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:51 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:34:29 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 12:34:34 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:48 -!- leo2007 [~leo@110.172.225.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:37:08 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:37:38 joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has joined #lisp 12:38:29 adeht: that seems yucky 12:39:39 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:42 by "that" you are referring to the elimination of tag/attribute distinction? 12:39:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:40:53 -!- dafgard [c2ed8e07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:41:13 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:43:22 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@student-246-118.eduroam.uu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43:45 (by "tag" I actually meant "element" btw) 12:45:57 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:59 Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.115.139] has joined #lisp 12:46:57 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 12:47:24 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-146-156.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:48:16 dafgard [c2ed8e07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.7] has 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timeout: 264 seconds] 14:31:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:32:16 erikc [~erikc@209.20.28.194] has joined #lisp 14:33:22 prip [~foo@host170-129-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:35:11 -!- hugod [~user@76.65.140.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:35:51 -!- nha [~prefect@65.172.24.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:35:57 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:37:44 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279564027.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:41:02 davazp [~user@178.167.196.252.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 14:42:06 oudeis [~oudeis@2.55.113.238] has joined #lisp 14:42:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@64-203.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:46:45 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:31 zickzackv [~faot@e179130117.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:48:52 dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-95.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:51:38 casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:15 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:56:55 with one do you think is more elegant? https://gist.github.com/Denommus/5415395 14:57:24 nothing that has (if .. (progn is elegant 14:57:43 H4ns: should I replace for a cond? 14:57:48 Denommus: yes. 14:58:16 Denommus: i personally do not read do, and i'd do a simple loop 14:59:20 kurk [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 14:59:36 -!- kurk [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:08 sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 15:00:24 what do you mean? 15:01:27 updated 15:01:47 Denommus: just that. a simple loop would be (loop (let ((n (read))) ...)) 15:02:31 oh. No, I like to use loop's DSL, I think it's pretty powerful 15:02:54 Denommus: well, then why do you ask whether do would be any more elegant? 15:02:56 :) 15:03:06 <|3b|> start LOOP clauses (like DO) on a new line, don't tack them onto the end of a previous clause 15:03:27 H4ns: well, you certainly helped me on the matter of the progn ;) 15:03:51 |3b|: are you talking about the until? 15:04:00 or the with? 15:04:14 Denommus: And the `do`. 15:04:14 for, do, with, all of them start on a fresh line 15:04:15 *|3b|* is mostly talking about the DO in FOR ... DO 15:04:27 *|3b|* would probably move the UNTIL clause to a separate line as well though 15:04:35 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA30A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:04:38 oh, do you use a line only for "do"? 15:05:01 <|3b|> sometimes, but that isn't what i meantr 15:05:03 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@67.139.65.163] has joined #lisp 15:05:18 <|3b|> don't put the DO at the end of a FOR clause 15:05:26 <|3b|> put it at the beginning of the DO clause 15:05:28 |3b|: updated. Like this? 15:05:28 the do usually preceeds the first form that is DOne 15:05:46 Denommus: what's with the funky indentation? 15:06:06 Denommus: you're not an emacs user. that's what you are. 15:06:06 :D 15:06:19 Denommus: 'with' and 'for' should be aligned. 15:06:21 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA30A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:06:29 I am an emacs user. This is the autoidentation emacs is giving me 15:06:35 <|3b|> Denommus: right, though in that case i'd probably put the (push ...) on the same line with the DO 15:06:41 Denommus: oh, apologies. 15:06:49 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:59 *|3b|* would probably put a newline after COND though 15:07:15 -!- aajmakin [aajmakin@kosh.org.aalto.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:17 |3b|: I tried to put the push in the line of the do, but it got unaligned 15:07:29 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:51 H4ns: so i take it you don't like if* either 15:07:56 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:08:02 it seems my emacs is misconfigured 15:08:12 or not? 15:08:26 <|3b|> Denommus: how do you load slime in .emacs? 15:08:54 -!- zickzackv [~faot@e179130117.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:08:58 Denommus: i added what emacs does for me automatically, as a comment 15:09:05 felideon: if*, haha 15:09:08 (load (expand-file-name "~/quicklisp/slime-helper.el")) 15:09:08 (setq inferior-lisp-program "sbcl --noinform --no-linedit") 15:09:21 felideon: nobody uses that. except john foderaro. it stinks. 15:09:25 :D 15:11:09 Denommus: i'd write (or (eq n 'exit) (eq n 'quit)) as (member n '(exit quit)) 15:11:36 H4ns: yes. It's prettier, indeed 15:11:49 I just didn't think about that 15:12:26 <|3b|> Denommus: might add (slime-setup '(slime-indentation)) after that 15:12:26 wakeup [~user@xdsl-89-0-115-52.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:12:29 hi 15:12:36 #+t(if (find-package :linedit)) 15:12:54 cause linedit is not a feature..... 15:12:57 |3b|: oh, thanks 15:13:26 *|3b|* has (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-tramp slime-asdf slime-sprof slime-indentation)) 15:13:40 <|3b|> looks like quicklisp just does slime-fancy 15:14:33 am I missing out? 15:14:53 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-lmxgpykwnsiocwam] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:15:42 |3b|: oh, it got A LOT better 15:15:55 an other question: I am looking for a way to have URIs in CL like 15:15:55 #U"http://foo" that I can OPEN/CLOSE like pathnames. 15:16:16 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 15:16:32 anything like that available? 15:17:01 wakeup: scieneer common lisp works like that. 15:17:26 in fact it sacrifices standard semantics to achieve it, with respect to *default-pathname-defaults* 15:18:26 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA30A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:18:33 GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has joined #lisp 15:19:14 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:53 Joreji [~thomas@66-041.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 15:20:24 wakeup: looks like something you could build to some extent with a custom read-table and drakma. 15:20:48 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:21:45 -!- igorw [~igorw@phpbb/developer/evil3] has quit [Changing host] 15:21:45 igorw [~igorw@unaffiliated/igorw] has joined #lisp 15:22:23 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:22:45 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.211.211] has joined #lisp 15:27:46 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:09 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:29:40 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host31-52-58-47.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:30:06 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 15:30:31 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@67.139.65.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:30:41 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:30:49 frkout [~frkout@80.112.147.124.dy.bbexcite.jp] has joined #lisp 15:31:48 zyg [55e38e49@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.227.142.73] has joined #lisp 15:31:48 frkout_ [~frkout@113.37.230.101] has joined #lisp 15:32:17 tic_: awake? 15:32:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-041.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:32:53 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-201-217.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 15:33:22 anyone baking bread here? 15:33:42 bananagram [~bot@198.64.10.88] has joined #lisp 15:34:07 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:34:09 zyg: perhaps on another channel. 15:34:18 not even brötchen ? 15:34:18 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:34:20 omg 15:34:58 I'm after tic' bread recipe, if anyone has it? 15:35:44 -!- frkout [~frkout@80.112.147.124.dy.bbexcite.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:38:10 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754d4d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:38:32 -!- xificurC [~xificurC@adsl-dyn236.78-98-85.t-com.sk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:39:53 Have a good day! I'll log in later to check.. 15:40:00 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 15:40:05 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest89292 15:40:22 -!- zyg [55e38e49@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.227.142.73] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:42:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:42:47 -!- xani [~user@178.183.150.146.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:42:54 doesthiswork [~Adium@75.87.251.5] has joined #lisp 15:45:20 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:50:12 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:51:07 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 15:51:44 frkout [~frkout@80.112.147.124.dy.bbexcite.jp] has joined #lisp 15:51:50 ylabidi [~ylabidi@208.85.112.101] has joined #lisp 15:51:53 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@113.37.230.101] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:52:30 sepi` [~user@2001:41d0:8:e341::1] has joined #lisp 15:52:57 -!- sepi [~user@2001:41d0:8:e341::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:53:51 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-173-79.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:12 -!- Guest89292 [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:35 ravster [~ravi@71-19-174-130.dedicated.allstream.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:57:20 -!- elia [~elia@93-50-99-219.ip152.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: (IRC Client: textualapp.com)] 15:58:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:59:49 beaumonta [~abeaumont@97.Red-79-150-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:38 -!- bananagram [~bot@198.64.10.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:00:42 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@83.red-79-150-205.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:02:42 What is the preferred way to install SLIME nowadays, quicklisp? 16:02:54 If so, how does it handle the elisp stuff? 16:03:01 akovalen` [~user@195.18.46.21] has joined #lisp 16:03:21 -!- Guest38260 [~lukas@194.228.13.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:04:32 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko` 16:04:58 ivan4th [~user@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 16:05:05 wakeup: check the ;; SLIME section on my config: https://github.com/Denommus/emacs-config 16:05:14 (init.el file, of course) 16:06:17 -!- akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:06:29 freshbone123 [~fresh_her@p579C479F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:06:40 but yeah, you install it through quicklisp and through Emacs' ELPA 16:08:23 wakeup: see quicklisp-slime-helper 16:08:39 it puts a slime loader .el script in ~/quicklisp/slime-helper.el 16:08:56 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-188-107-042-186.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:31 -!- agumonkey [~agu@71.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:09:51 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[~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:44 hi 18:09:45 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 18:09:56 lukas_ [~lukas@194.228.13.246] has joined #lisp 18:10:19 -!- lukas_ is now known as Guest35448 18:10:24 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.36.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:10:55 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:11:06 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 18:11:17 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:13:39 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:15:35 -!- Guest35448 [~lukas@194.228.13.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:16:41 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [] 18:17:29 lukas__ [~lukas@194.228.13.246] has joined #lisp 18:17:53 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:19:05 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:19:06 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 18:19:06 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #lisp 18:24:28 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:24 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:26 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:27:27 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 18:27:39 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:29:38 spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 18:30:02 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:30:18 What do you use when you need to write xml? 18:30:48 *H4ns* uses cxml (with-xml-output, with-element etc) 18:31:21 It's better to view a type constructor that simply builds function types as an operational definition or as an equational theory? Why? thx. 18:31:37 jasom: cry 18:32:01 stassats: I know; it 18:32:17 It's either xml or fdf, which is a PDF subset 18:32:37 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:43 unless of course someone has a lispy solution for filling forms in a pdf? 18:33:20 though this is simple enough that I'm tempted to use format 18:34:21 Just some text... 18:36:36 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 18:36:39 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.241.50] has joined #lisp 18:37:14 *stassats* tries to calculate how many problems will that give you 18:37:17 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:34 acrobat wants latin-1 with all other codepoints as hex elements 18:37:48 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:38:25 even has a listed algorithm for escaping characters 18:41:03 Kenjin_ [~kenjin@2.80.241.50] has joined #lisp 18:41:20 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.241.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:42:08 -!- cades [~mac@1-169-131-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:43:12 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 18:44:06 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:44:20 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-21-199.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:44:30 of course the characters it supports are "double byte" and "latin-1" no mention of characters outside the BMP 18:45:29 agumonkey [~agu@45.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:24 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:47:43 i find using fop preferable to messing with pdfs directly. 18:48:36 CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:48:59 H4ns: fop? 18:49:25 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:49:29 I'm not messing with pdfs directly, just generating data to fill in a form. 18:50:05 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:50:15 jasom: yeah - fop is the apache xsl-fo renderer. i've done the fdf thing, too, but i find pdf harder to deal with than xml. 18:50:23 http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/ 18:50:34 H4ns: I'm not using fdf, I'm using xfdf 18:50:42 AeroNotix [~xeno@abob43.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:50:48 how well does that work for you H4ns 18:50:57 versus, say, Flying Saucer? 18:51:06 jasom: ah, xfdf, never heard of that. 18:51:21 H4ns: It's like fdf only XML 18:51:24 so it's future-proof 18:51:30 18:51:50 whartung: works very well for me. i like how painless it was to use type1 fonts, and it is documented. 18:51:50 and it's not really xml since it is limited in the encodings it can take and there isn't a dtd provided and... 18:52:06 jasom: so summing up, xfdf is crap? 18:52:15 H4ns: yes, but easy to generate 18:52:25 does it do things like page numbers, headers, footers, table of contents? 18:52:47 always on the lookout for something better than raw iText from Java... 18:53:26 whartung: yeah, sure. all of that, although fop does have some limitations (e.g. no backward references) 18:53:41 yea 18:54:04 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-164-161-162.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:54:37 I did a catalog application for a client once, and it uses raw iText -- I was never happy with it, always on the look out for something better. And it uses all of those 18:54:47 GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has joined #lisp 18:55:01 i'd choose xsl-fo again any time. 18:55:57 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-67-182.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:28 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.137.28.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:37 -!- fuark [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:57:19 have you see Flying Saucer? It doesn't use FO, it's basically a raw CSS renderer, that happens to have rules for HTML. 18:59:05 no, interesting. 19:03:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:04:57 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:27 francogrex [~user@109.128.66.209] has joined #lisp 19:07:17 building ecl on android is exteremly hackish still, the instructions are very poor 19:10:26 ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has joined #lisp 19:11:28 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@216.1.187.162] has joined #lisp 19:11:35 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@216.1.187.162] has quit [Client Quit] 19:11:36 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host163-225-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:11:42 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:53 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-227-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:13:55 Posterdati [~antani@host215-229-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:14:46 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:41 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 19:16:00 -!- francogrex [~user@109.128.66.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:13 -!- davazp [~user@178.167.196.252.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:18:36 Regis__ [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has joined #lisp 19:21:31 -!- GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:23:42 -!- Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:28:58 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 19:30:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.229] has joined #lisp 19:30:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.229] has quit [Changing host] 19:30:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:32:29 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:33:11 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:59 Denommus` [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has joined #lisp 19:34:12 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:33 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.115.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:44:01 -!- felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:46:14 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-67-182.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:46:46 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:47:59 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-216-203.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:53:32 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host215-229-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:55:13 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.30.201] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:28 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:56:16 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:57:30 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-21-199.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.] 19:58:13 Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.115.139] has joined #lisp 19:58:43 francogrex [~user@109.128.66.209] has joined #lisp 19:59:47 should people be allowed to post garbage on git? 20:00:00 nha [~prefect@airportwifi.caribsurf.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:36 francogrex: isn't that what git's designed for? Everybody his/her own garbage? 20:01:38 francogrex: 20:01:40 alias yolo='git commit -am "DEAL WITH IT" && git push -f origin master' 20:02:14 ylabidi [~ylabidi@208.85.112.101] has joined #lisp 20:02:43 ehu: yes but some warning may be in order, I wish people actually test what they post before they do it 20:02:51 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.221] has joined #lisp 20:03:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:03:20 if you're talking about a real production system, you can have git set up in such a way that all pushes must pass CI before they're included in the shared tree. 20:03:53 sykopomp: is there such a system now to your knowledge? 20:04:42 GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has joined #lisp 20:04:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:05:43 -!- NeverMined [~never@69.209.225.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:07:11 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:07:48 -!- Regis__ [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:08:35 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has left #lisp 20:08:38 hahah yolo alias 20:09:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:09:42 -!- nha [~prefect@airportwifi.caribsurf.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:10:03 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:55 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:12:19 Regis__ [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has joined #lisp 20:12:54 francogrex: http://gerrit-documentation.googlecode.com/svn/Documentation/2.6/intro-quick.html is one example 20:13:14 francogrex: there's a plugin for jenkins that integrates it with gerrit, to actually have the CI part, aside from the code review part. 20:14:30 -!- humbug [~humbug@112.167.211.69] has quit [Quit: humbug] 20:15:00 ok 20:15:23 -!- GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:15:32 GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has joined #lisp 20:16:00 gerrit seems nice 20:16:29 you need to have a certain scale/type of team to be able to take advantage of stuff like gerrit and jenkins 20:16:58 you need a test suite, you need to have bosses that care enough about quality to invest time into code reviews and writing tests. 20:17:06 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-152.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:17:35 -!- Regis__ [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:18:15 -!- beaumonta [~abeaumont@97.Red-79-150-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:19:32 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@216.1.187.162] has joined #lisp 20:20:23 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:41 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-66-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:59 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE647B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:26:07 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:27:03 davazp [~user@92.251.223.55.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 20:28:33 francogrex: you could also setup a github server, block all branches (each developer will only have priviledge to push to his own branch), and only allow to go to the "development" branch through merge request 20:28:40 s/github/gitlab/ 20:30:04 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE647B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:30:07 -!- _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:31:24 yes but very often it's not the branches the problem is the original 20:32:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:34:14 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:34:46 abeaumont [~abeaumont@213.Red-83-61-64.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:33 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 20:36:37 -!- ylabidi [~ylabidi@208.85.112.101] has left #lisp 20:36:46 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:37:24 Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has joined #lisp 20:37:57 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 20:39:19 sdemarre [~serge@74.67-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:41:06 -!- francogrex [~user@109.128.66.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:52 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:41:52 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:42:21 Novimundus [~eodnhoj@ip-64-134-41-12.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:04 Guys. I can't for the life of me figure out why my infix-to-postfix evaluator isn't working. Anyone want to give it a shot? Annotated. http://paste.lisp.org/display/136799#1 20:46:20 It's got something to do with the (progn's) 20:46:29 Not triggering correctly or something. 20:47:39 '('* '/) is probably wrong 20:47:43 try '(* /) 20:47:59 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:44 no different =\ 20:48:53 Novimundus: please rewrite this with cond. A Pratt parser (http://javascript.crockford.com/tdop/tdop.html) might simplify the code, by handling a more general case. 20:49:26 my very first trial was with cond. and i made it recursive. 20:49:31 should i perhaps try cond + while 20:49:35 since there are so many if cases 20:50:03 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:51:10 I have heard of a way to set attributes to functions (in this case a priority would be useful)...can I get the name of that function or a link to read about that? 20:52:17 just rewrite with cond, this isn't really readable 20:52:46 Novimundus: GETF is one way 20:52:56 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:57 http://l1sp.org/cl/getf has some info. 20:53:34 nifty. thanks. 20:53:46 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.103.246] has joined #lisp 20:53:54 dtm` [~user@adsl-69-110-14-236.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:47 I'm trying to use libsodium through cffi but keep getting "Attempt to call an undefined foreign function" 20:56:26 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE647B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:56:48 cddr: Paste your code at lisppaste? 20:56:52 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE647B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:58:07 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abob43.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:58:41 http://paste.lisp.org/display/136800 20:59:04 I know, technically, loop is not very "lispy". But, gosh, I love it 20:59:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:00:54 WOW it looks so much cleaner with cond. 21:01:11 -!- dtm` [~user@adsl-69-110-14-236.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has left #lisp 21:01:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:01:53 One thing I'm wondering is that the libsodium docs say C code that tries to use it should have "include " at the top of any file that tries to use it. Does "(use-foreign-library...)" do this for you? 21:02:00 http://paste.lisp.org/display/136801 21:03:34 cddr: no. 21:03:53 Novimundus: so what's the expected behavior vs actual behavior 21:03:54 use-foreign-library is like specifying a link flag. 21:04:09 -!- clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:21 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:04:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:05:05 actual is: 1 2 3 4 5 app - * + 21:05:37 expected is 1 2 3 4 5 app * - + 21:05:47 for what input 21:05:59 1 + 2 * 3 - 4 app 5 21:06:06 hmm, interestingly, I can get to sodium_version_string, which returns a string, but not to sodium_library_version_major which returns an int 21:06:10 app > */ > +- 21:06:37 Novimundus: so why do you check app, then +-, then */? 21:06:47 app is highest priority so it always goes into opstack no matter what 21:07:08 it gets dumped when the next operator is lower than the top of the opstack 21:07:26 pkhuong: so how would you include header files in cffi? is that what grovel is for? 21:07:35 so only */ can trigger a dump when app is top stack, and +- can trigger a dump when app/* is topstack 21:08:50 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 21:08:56 -!- spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:10:01 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:02 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:39 Regis__ [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has joined #lisp 21:11:42 I take it back. The expected is this: 1 2 3 * + 4 5 app, and the actual is this: 1 2 3 4 5 app - * + 21:12:30 cddr: I would assume sodium_library_version_major isn't an actual variable. You have to translate the contents of header files into CFFI declarations. the groveller may help you do that. 21:12:35 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:13:07 -!- GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:13:23 <|3b|> cddr: header files declare functions/types/constants/etc for C/C++ code, so you will need to either write the equivalent in cffi, or use some automated tool like swig or verrazano or whatever the new clang one is 21:13:53 it's as if the dump function isn't moving the opstack to the postfix. 21:14:10 should i just do a while opstack length > 0 : push (pop opstack) postfix? 21:14:14 well, what's dump look like? 21:14:14 rather than write a separate function? 21:14:16 <|3b|> groveller is a way to extract actual values of compiler/platform dependent constants, structure layout, etc at compile time, which may or may not be needed depending on whether that particular library actually has that sort of thing or not 21:14:49 (defun dump (from to) (loop while (> (length from) 0) (push (pop from) to))) 21:15:02 just popping from one stack then pushing to other until from stack is empty. 21:15:05 oh, yeah, that's not going to work 21:15:08 que? 21:15:19 to is a new lexical variable that you're pushing to 21:15:22 i thought everything was pass by reference 21:15:34 you're not pushing to any lexical variable in infix-to-postfix 21:15:34 Novimundus: everything is passed by value. Most values are references. 21:15:42 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:15:43 agumonke1 [~agu@45.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:48 ....oh. 21:15:55 just replace dump with the loop and see if that works 21:16:17 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:16:38 brb 15 minutes, thanks for the help. 21:17:04 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE647B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:20:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:21:05 -!- Novimundus [~eodnhoj@ip-64-134-41-12.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:21:07 -!- agumonke1 [~agu@45.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:22:08 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-253-105.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:30 -!- sdemarre [~serge@74.67-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:22:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:24:10 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.211.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:26:42 agumonkey [~agu@45.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:13 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 21:28:53 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 21:32:01 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.211.211] has joined #lisp 21:32:09 jenia [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:32:12 hello everyone 21:32:13 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:32:22 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 21:32:31 can someone please tell me, what does that dot mean in the list: 21:32:37 (a b c . d) 21:32:38 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 21:32:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:32:51 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 21:32:51 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 21:32:51 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:33:05 (cons 'a (cons 'b (cons 'c 'd))) => (a b c . d) 21:33:07 jenia: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/they-called-it-lisp-for-a-reason-list-processing.html 21:33:17 jenia: It means the final cdr is not nil. 21:33:19 vs. (cons 'a (cons 'b (cons 'c (cons 'd nil)))) => (a b c d) 21:34:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:34:17 banjiewen [banjiewen@50.97.193.77-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has joined #lisp 21:34:32 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:34:32 okay thanks. let me think what does this mean for my prog 21:34:50 Novimundus [~eodnhoj@66.44.30.54] has joined #lisp 21:36:47 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.223.55.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:36:52 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.204.182] has joined #lisp 21:37:59 does FORMAT have a simple way of indenting a string argument? (so that each line in the string get's n spaces prepended)... or is this a cl-ppcre job? 21:38:17 nan_ [~user@46.197.112.181] has joined #lisp 21:38:51 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:35 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE647B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:41:11 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@213.Red-83-61-64.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:41:46 robot-beethoven: it has tools for doing indented blocks, yet 21:41:56 abeaumont [~abeaumont@213.Red-83-61-64.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:15 clhs ~< 21:42:16 Matches: ~ clhs ~ http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_ceb.htm 21:43:16 robot-beethoven: that may or may not do what you want 21:44:22 nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:15 agumonkey [~agu@45.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:35 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-171-21.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:44 robot-beethoven: oh, you have a single string with multiple lines? yeah cl-ppcre is probably the best-bet 21:47:27 -!- Novimundus [~eodnhoj@66.44.30.54] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:47:35 nan_` [~user@46.197.112.181] has joined #lisp 21:47:39 Novimundus [~eodnhoj@66.44.30.54] has joined #lisp 21:48:27 -!- nan_ [~user@46.197.112.181] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:43 Though (format t ~< ~@;~A~:> (list string)) 21:48:46 will do it I think 21:49:31 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:59 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 21:50:55 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:50:56 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE647B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:51:23 agumonkey [~agu@45.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:10 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012b28.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:52:16 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 21:53:49 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-9-35.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:02 and (format t ~< ~@;~A~:@> (list string)) will do it with automatic line-wrapping 21:54:52 GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has joined #lisp 21:55:00 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [] 21:55:32 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:54 jasom: wow, those work! is there any way to paramaterize the indent-length? 21:56:36 -!- Regis__ [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:56:57 davazp [~user@92.251.223.55.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 21:57:23 robot-beethoven: I don't think easily with format, but you can do it pretty easy with (pprint-logical-block) (pprint-logical-block doesn't do auto-wrapping, but it will do indenting) 21:57:40 bitonic [~user@151.225.36.236] has joined #lisp 21:57:54 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:57:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:58:00 of course none of the lisps I tried seem to auto-wrap 21:58:17 Czechton [~Czechton@cpc4-oxfd23-2-0-cust877.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:59:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:00:38 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:27 felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #lisp 22:01:30 can lisp have knowledge bases? 22:03:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:03:35 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:38 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE647B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:05:06 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.84.33] has joined #lisp 22:05:38 GOMADWarrior, you ask about knowledge about lisp/scheme or knowledge representation in general? 22:05:56 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.84.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:46 general 22:06:53 yes. 22:08:03 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.84.33] has joined #lisp 22:08:31 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 22:09:14 really 22:11:16 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:14:33 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE647B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:16:54 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:19:46 -!- oticat` [~oticat@114-25-200-153.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:35 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 22:25:14 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: casion] 22:25:48 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.115.139] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:26:20 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE647B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:28:53 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:29:19 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@216.1.187.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:29:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:30:29 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:31:09 hash tables seem to hash on the identity of an object, if I store a thing at one key and later change some property of the key and fetch at that key I get what I first stored. Is there some way to change/work-around this behavior? 22:31:13 Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@e183234070.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:31:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:31:43 -!- arrsim` [~user@ppp118-209-60-238.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:31:44 clhs 18.1.2 22:31:44 Modifying Hash Table Keys: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/18_ab.htm 22:34:36 :( that answersthat 22:37:05 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-9-35.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:38:27 -!- ingsoc [~hickin@cpc10-salf5-2-0-cust242.10-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:38:55 -!- Artheist [~quassel@modemcable051.243-130-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:14 I think I can work around it in this case by copying the outer plist though and wrapping table accesses 22:42:40 ravster [~ravi@71-19-174-130.dedicated.allstream.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:45 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 22:44:15 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 22:47:24 hello again everyone. i had this function: 22:47:25 (defun rev (x) 22:47:25 (if (eq (car x) nil) 22:47:25 '() 22:47:25 (append (reverse (cdr x))(cons (car x) nil)))) 22:47:59 except for the last element i didnt have (cons (car x) nil, instead i simply had (car x) 22:48:05 and the result would be 22:48:09 jenia: please use paste.lisp.org 22:50:28 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:53:34 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.84.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:20 SexyTattoos96 [~TattedSxy@ip-64-134-134-69.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:53 -!- SexyTattoos96 [~TattedSxy@ip-64-134-134-69.public.wayport.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:55:12 SexyTattoos96 [~TattedSxy@ip-64-134-134-69.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:21 -!- SexyTattoos96 [~TattedSxy@ip-64-134-134-69.public.wayport.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:55:38 SexyTattoos96 [~TattedSxy@ip-64-134-134-69.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:58:35 -!- SexyTattoos96 [~TattedSxy@ip-64-134-134-69.public.wayport.net] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 22:58:39 iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 22:59:39 SexyTattoos96 [~TattedSxy@ip-64-134-134-69.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:00:26 Is there a hotkey for interrupting emacs when it's compiling/running lisp 23:00:28 -!- erikc [~erikc@209.20.28.194] has quit [Quit: erikc] 23:00:37 C-c C-c 23:00:43 yeah that doesn't work 0.o 23:00:46 i'm stuck on a while loop 23:01:12 but now that you said that, it makes me more confident in the labeling of the functions :-) 23:01:22 -!- wakeup [~user@xdsl-89-0-115-52.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:01:24 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:01:37 http://paste.lisp.org/display/136802 23:01:49 this is the problem. sorry for the long delay. 23:04:21 -!- Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@e183234070.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:04:38 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:13 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE647B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:07:19 jenia, this doesn't answer to your question but rev doesn't do what reverse do in fact? 23:07:27 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 23:08:36 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:08:48 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:09:15 yes it does 23:09:20 im just practicing ;) 23:09:45 -!- ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:11:00 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:12:28 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:12 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:15:54 jenia, (cdr '()) will be '() 23:16:09 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:17:45 okay. but thats not the issue. and also, if x is even '(), then the first option of "if" will be executed, which is to return '() 23:17:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:17:50 and then the stack will rewind 23:18:03 (append '() (car '(d))) 23:18:14 which gives d 23:18:21 and then the next frame is 23:18:31 (append 'd (car ' 23:18:40 (append 'd (car '(c d))) 23:18:45 which is suppose to be an error 23:18:50 cause 'd is not a list 23:19:02 instead it returns:(D C B . A) 23:19:04 at the end 23:19:42 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:19:57 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: good night/dobranoc] 23:22:05 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.226.67.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:22:24 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.211.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:22:48 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:56 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:23:30 nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:53 -!- lukas__ [~lukas@194.228.13.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:24:44 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-159-8.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:29:03 jenia, (list (car x)) ? 23:29:20 my issue is not to make it work 23:29:36 theres a mismatch between what i understand abut lisp and what lisp is doing 23:30:10 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:14 i want to understand why is (append 'd (car '(c d))) gives no error? 23:32:07 or, tell me, why is (append '() 'd) gives d 23:32:11 and not (d) 23:32:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-71.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:32:24 isnt append suppose to return a list? 23:32:43 [2]> (append 'd (car '(c d))) 23:32:43 *** - APPEND: D is not a list 23:32:53 so... the former one does give an error 23:34:04 jenia: also, I suppose the latter is an edge case you should not rely on 23:34:16 http://paste.lisp.org/display/136802 23:34:20 can you check this out? 23:34:30 jenia, last argument of append could be a object, see http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_append.htm#append 23:35:05 why is (append '() 'd) gives d and not '(d) 23:35:17 the implementation of append might be (defun append (l1 l2) (if (null l1) l2) (cons (car l1) (append (cdr l1) l2))) 23:35:28 if you see that implementation, you see the issue 23:36:25 it doesn't give you '(d) because it appends to lists lists, not items to lists 23:36:32 > (append '(1 2 3) '(4 5 6)) 23:36:33 (1 2 3 4 5 6) 23:36:47 in other words: garbage in, garbage out 23:37:31 look i really really dont get it 23:37:35 let me explain 23:37:44 brb 23:37:56 when the base case gets executed, the program return '() 23:38:05 then its 23:38:19 (append '() (car '(d))) 23:38:26 ===>> D 23:38:28 correct? 23:38:32 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.36.236] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:38:43 yes 23:38:54 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:57 then its (append 'd (car '(c d))) 23:39:02 and its not an error? 23:39:05 how can that be? 23:39:16 it is an error 23:39:26 why isnt the program crashing? 23:40:04 the interpretor? 23:40:05 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-183-184-43.lns17.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:40:11 yes 23:40:32 why is the answer (D C B . A) and not "MASSIVE ERROR" 23:40:37 [20:37] when the base case gets executed, the program return '() 23:40:42 yes 23:40:48 ^ what will return '()? 23:41:05 thats the return value of the base case 23:41:12 if the base case is executed (i.e., if l1 is null), you return l2, not l1 23:41:18 (if (car x) nil) 23:41:20 '() 23:41:24 i suppose base case is rev 23:41:26 (if you're talking about append) 23:41:53 no base case is (= (car x) nil) 23:42:00 i mean eq 23:42:02 sorry, I didn't look at your source, let me see 23:42:07 thanks 23:42:15 I thought you meant append 23:43:03 ok, so: (if (eq (car x) nil) 23:43:06 oh my god 23:43:14 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:43:24 i use reverse instead or rev in the recursive call 23:43:25 sorry 23:43:26 this will be null if you pass in '(some elements '() and a nil) 23:43:26 haha 23:43:27 thanks 23:43:34 in the middle 23:44:10 but also it'll be true if x is '() 23:44:15 -!- SexyTattoos96 [~TattedSxy@ip-64-134-134-69.public.wayport.net] has quit [] 23:44:20 so watch out, because your function is broken 23:45:11 jenia: your base case should simply be (if (null x)) 23:45:27 oh okay thanks Tordek 23:45:35 -!- Denommus` [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:41 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:46:01 jenia: otherwise you'd call, say, (rev '(1 2 3 NIL 4 5)) and get '(3 2 1) 23:47:52 ahh okay okay 23:47:53 thanks 23:49:44 jenia: so... you should be getting a different error, now, if you're still using append 23:49:45 ASau` [~user@p4FF97E4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:50:22 yes thats why i did (cons (car x) '()) 23:50:25 ;) 23:51:15 -!- ASau [~user@p5797F361.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:51:36 that's equivalent to (list (car x)) btw 23:57:29 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-216-203.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]