00:00:39 pjb: yes i know about function call but i thought it was long for what i was trying 00:01:09 (defun cl-user:a () ) (format t "~/a/" 'hi) 00:01:18 killsto: I've used it; know that it's not suitable for listening on the open-internet 00:01:24 killsto: other than that, it's great 00:01:24 phadthai: function call i think better 00:01:24 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-154.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:50 nan_: but the point is that CL doesn't optimize character count. 00:02:30 It's better to write: (format t "~/localized-message/" "Hello") rather than: (format t "~/m/" "Hello") ; prints a localized message. 00:02:31 you can have my-format that has ~U.. or you can just use a non-format solution 00:02:43 or perhaps CL DOES optimize character count! 00:03:33 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@65-102-6-16.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:03:43 i basically want to control some stream with format, and change color of output with a cute syntax 00:04:48 (format t "~/red/Hello ~/yellow/world ~/normal/!~%~/color/Random~/normal/" (case (random 3) (0 :red) (1 :green) (2 :blue))) 00:04:50 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:05:49 how about a nice structured way instead 00:06:01 pjb: that is sweet, the only scary part is namespace 00:06:11 Works too. But format control strings are more easily localizable. 00:06:38 pjb: I don't think so. not with Lisp at hand :) 00:06:41 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 00:06:41 (format t "~/e48:red/Hello ~/e48:yellow/world ~/e48:normal/!~%~/e48:color/Random~/e48:normal/" (case (random 3) (0 :red) (1 :green) (2 :blue))) 00:07:10 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-204-215.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:12 after (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.package:add-nickname :com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.ecma048 :e48) 00:07:41 Not that this package contain formatter functions, but it contains ecma048 control sequences. 00:07:47 pjb: i mean it gives out too much details if you want to use namespace 00:08:33 but then again, i could just use a namespace named :color :) 00:08:40 Anyways, as adeht said, if it doesn't do what you want, just define your own operator. 00:10:27 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-154.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:10:29 thanks everyone 00:10:31 the exercise is left to you, but sure, you could have an s-exp tree to text formatter with the format commands you'd like, like the many s-exp/html/xml ones, either converted at runtime or compile-time 00:10:54 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:35 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-204-215.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:12:09 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-210-180.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:54 nan: with my OUT operator I can do something like (out (:u color :red) "Hello" (:u color :grey) " world") .. where color is a user-defined operator 00:20:19 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 00:20:51 adeht: i was thinking of giving this functionality to user, probably madness, taking control string from user hmmm... 00:21:58 format too good i want to use it in everywhere i could! 00:22:03 gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:04 yes if you write your own you can control allowed operations, recursion level, prevent unwanted evaluation etc, and that seems best if you cannot trust the supplied data 00:24:31 you should avoid READ/LOAD/EXEC or uncontrolled access to symbols and variables with such user-provided data 00:24:31 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:25:23 i can scan control string before processing but with format you i am not sure :) 00:25:38 s/you// 00:26:55 s/EXEC/EVAL/ 00:27:55 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-146-179.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:28:08 wow, SBCL is /fast/ 00:28:12 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:29:03 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 00:29:59 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 00:32:01 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:32:52 jasom: hmm, okay. I'm a little confused on its benefits but it looks like it's a tiny bit higher abstraction 00:33:51 killsto: have you done any socket programming in any language? 00:33:58 Yes 00:34:36 C, Java, Python,and a bit in Cl 00:36:37 usocket gives you that; zeromq gives you various message-passing semantics 00:37:49 another popular alternative is iolib 00:38:17 killsto: yeah, I actually use iolib rather than usocket 00:38:18 nan: http://i.imgur.com/RocoNnc.png 00:38:42 killsto: if you want message-passing then use zeromq, if you want bare sockets use usocket or iolib 00:38:55 IOlib doesn't work with abcl 00:39:01 as fair as I know anyway 00:39:07 Bike_ [~Glossina@71-34-70-234.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:42 you're probably right, I think that it only supports unix syscalls 00:40:06 well if cffi works on abcl it could work 00:40:09 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 00:40:10 -!- Bike_ is now known as Nitya 00:40:28 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:46 yours_truly [~yours@mc-115-116.IPReg.mcmaster.ca] has joined #lisp 00:41:17 phadthai: It would still be unix-only though 00:41:23 yes 00:41:48 -!- yours_truly [~yours@mc-115-116.IPReg.mcmaster.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 00:42:05 I guess I'm a bit confused on mp and using sockets to pass messages. I'll have to look into it 00:42:23 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-210-180.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:42:44 hmm if it's to communicate between threads, and your implementation supports the OS-native threads, using shared resources might be quite faster than using sockets 00:43:04 -!- Nitya is now known as Bike 00:43:06 nan_: http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/bin&h=715a21555a8807d2a323f3f2795528b6566fce2f&hb=3c63d48f510ecf28ae226d18fd9320026b7c1e8d&f=ansi-test 00:43:14 adeht: ^ too 00:44:06 and if you use sockets for mp communication between various machines in a cluster, you have to deal with a common portable protocol and related extra serialization/parsing 00:44:21 Don't most programs use sockets to communicate between programs? 00:44:43 killsto: yes, but you layer something on top of that 00:44:47 Oh you said threads 00:45:12 phadthai: one advantage of zeromq is it has a shared-memory implementation for fast intra-process communication 00:45:51 it depends, between threads with a shared vm space there are more efficient methods, between processes on the same host there are better alternatives as well, you really only need sockets for secure client-server scenarios or between multiple hosts 00:46:12 phadthai: what do you use for IPC if not sockets? 00:46:23 sysvipc, mmap, etc 00:46:36 or for threads, mutexes/queues etc 00:47:24 AF_LOCAL sockets if wanting to ensure client credentials, TCP or other for between machines, etc 00:47:31 jasom: does the shared memory impementation use sockets then? 00:47:33 pjb: nice 00:47:40 killsto: no 00:47:55 normanrichards [~normanric@75.92.34.101] has joined #lisp 00:47:56 killsto: but for IPC I think it uses AF_LOCAL 00:49:16 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 00:49:27 in theory zeromq could be implemented on top of inter-process shared memory, but it's not 00:50:45 (AF_LOCAL allows SCM_CREDS ancillary messages with sendmsg(2) so a server can obtain connecting user id reliably, and they're faster/lighter than a full TCP stack, can be set to use large message buffers, etc) 00:51:12 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:18 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:55:09 actually I have in a todo to check and/or implement AF_LOCAL sockets for slime eventually, even a localhost listening tcp socket can be quite dangerous except on single-user systems 00:56:20 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 00:56:33 How would af_local be better? 00:57:05 the socket file can have permissions, and the server can verifify if necessary that the client is really a specific unix uid 00:57:15 s/verifify/verify/ 00:57:22 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 00:58:23 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@75.92.34.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:58:49 it's not too bad when slime is always connected as only one connection is allowed at a time, but if detaching slime, the local tcp socket is then open to any local user to connect and corrupt or control the application 00:58:57 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:23 -!- gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl_] 01:01:00 gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:04 -!- italic [~em@unaffiliated/italic] has left #lisp 01:02:00 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:11 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.43.116] has left #lisp 01:11:13 casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:29 -!- joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:15:48 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:18:03 Bike_ [~Glossina@207-224-19-97.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:57 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:19:00 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 01:20:26 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-34-70-234.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:23:34 agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:40 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 01:25:51 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:14 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 01:27:54 erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:29:10 Bike_ [~Glossina@63-229-132-189.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:14 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 01:29:33 -!- gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl_] 01:29:41 KDr2 [~KDr2@114.243.243.145] has joined #lisp 01:31:47 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-19-97.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:32:41 stillman [~j0ni@75-119-251-189.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:33:58 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:04 adelgado1 [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:33 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@63-229-132-189.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:34:37 -!- stillman [~j0ni@75-119-251-189.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:34:57 stillman [~j0ni@75-119-251-189.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:35:39 -!- adelgado1 [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:35:44 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:27 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-103.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:54 gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:52 Bike_ [~Glossina@65-102-6-195.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:29 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45:36 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-103.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:48:13 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-146-69.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:48:50 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-131-254.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:49:32 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@65-102-6-195.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:49:36 -!- j0ni [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:50:41 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-221-81.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:15 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bicyclidine 01:54:28 Bicyclid1ne [~Glossina@67-5-221-81.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:59 -!- Bicyclidine [~Glossina@67-5-221-81.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:57:22 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 02:03:16 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:39 sammy [~sammy@p579EBDC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:03 -!- sammy is now known as Guest88076 02:05:06 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:05:09 ISF [~ivan@189.61.222.251] has joined #lisp 02:06:29 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@76.178.163.213] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:07:57 -!- Forgetaboutit [~sammy@p4FFA6DB5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:08:36 p_nathan [~Adium@76.178.163.213] has joined #lisp 02:17:03 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:53 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:18:57 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:21 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 02:23:26 -!- eee [~user@c50-26-74-15.amrlcmtk01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:24:02 rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has joined #lisp 02:24:19 Is there a way to get more informative asdf errors upon loading? I get a compile error but it doesn't tell what/where in the file. 02:28:21 Sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 02:29:17 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:29:19 killsto: what implementation? 02:29:41 sbcl 02:30:06 Usually it will tell you exactly where the error is. What do you get instead? 02:31:24 Error while invoking # on 02:31:26 # 02:32:00 killsto: before that 02:32:11 usually starts with ERROR: 02:32:56 Error while invoking # on 02:33:22 oh I pasted that 02:34:18 you can use http://paste.lisp.org/ multiple line pasting 02:34:19 There's a bunch of style warnings. Debating just writing the bindings mysef 02:34:31 s/multiple/for multiple/ 02:34:54 killsto: It's good to learn how to read what it's telling you. Nothing that starts with ERROR: at all? 02:36:36 No there is not 02:38:24 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 02:38:40 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:39:07 Paste a transcript? 02:45:38 -!- stillman [~j0ni@75-119-251-189.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:47:19 http://paste.lisp.org/display/136690 02:47:53 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:53:49 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:30 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:55:46 ahh 02:56:04 the fatal bit is here: 02:56:06 ; caught WARNING: 02:56:06 ; The function was called with four arguments, but wants exactly five. 03:00:03 ah 03:00:43 I shouldn't have missed that. Though I was looking for "Error" 03:01:20 -!- Bicyclid1ne is now known as Bike 03:04:37 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:06:55 i should have mentioned a full warning could cause the problem too. 03:07:43 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:07:54 I code in java all day, used to errors that really blow up :) 03:07:55 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.24.31] has joined #lisp 03:08:45 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:06 -!- killsto [~killian@ip70-179-169-110.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 03:19:54 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 03:23:34 -!- rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has quit [Quit: Another attempt at UTF-8 fix on new VPS] 03:24:34 rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has joined #lisp 03:24:35 -!- rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has quit [Client Quit] 03:25:39 rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has joined #lisp 03:33:03 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:33:22 -!- weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:33:59 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:48 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:54:42 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: casion] 03:57:02 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:58:04 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:44 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 03:59:15 syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 04:00:26 groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #lisp 04:09:06 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 04:10:33 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:12:31 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:22:12 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 04:23:13 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.24.31] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 04:26:20 Lo_Pan [~haw@109.169.40.187] has joined #lisp 04:26:54 -!- Lo_Pan [~haw@109.169.40.187] has left #lisp 04:29:36 -!- Guest88076 [~sammy@p579EBDC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 04:34:58 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 04:54:18 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:54:48 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-229-39.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:58:54 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:03:39 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:07:06 -!- TML [~joey@unaffiliated/tml] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:07:33 TML [~joey@unaffiliated/tml] has joined #lisp 05:11:46 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.192.21] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 05:13:30 -!- gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl_] 05:16:58 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:17:50 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:21:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.204.114] has joined #lisp 05:21:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.204.114] has quit [Changing host] 05:21:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:24:29 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:23 pnpuff [~Babooshka@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:27:51 nowl [~nowl@pool-173-48-242-12.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:19 -!- pnpuff [~Babooshka@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: lacio drom] 05:33:14 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:33:52 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:34:42 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:14 rukubites [~user@d122-111-12-110.meb804.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:40:58 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:41:34 Hi all, I'm trying to get a library working: https://github.com/tpapp/cl-bayesian . It USES quite a few packages, and I have a conflict between CL-NUM-UTILS.INTERVAL:RIGHT, CL-RANDOM:RIGHT. I looked at the source, and it doesn't actually use these exports at all. It just uses the symbol as a variable name a few times. What is the simplest way to resolve this? 05:42:26 Here is the package.lisp: https://github.com/tpapp/cl-bayesian/blob/master/src/package.lisp 05:42:30 rukubites: don't :use, or use :shadowing-import-from 05:42:44 <|3b|> if you don't want to import the specific symbols it uses, you could probably just pick one and :shadowing-import-from 05:43:23 I guess my problem is I don't want to go through all the exports and how they're used in a library I don't know. Personally I don't USE. 05:43:29 I'm no user! 05:43:54 rukubites: did you not just say that you USE quite a few packages? 05:44:13 I personally don't. But tpapp did in this library I am trying to build. 05:44:50 Oh, I see. 05:45:00 <|3b|> given that it already has a shadowing-import-from for one of those packages, probably easiest to just add that symbol 05:45:08 I didn't realise :shadowing-import-from dealt with special cases. 05:45:31 I can proceed. Sorry, I am pretty good with Lisp but there are always edges I haven't dealt with. Part of the fun. 05:45:52 <|3b|> or file a bug and wait for author to fix it :) 05:46:08 Last commit was 2 years ago. I think I'll get it working and then issue a pull request. :-) 05:46:38 I already forked it for that purpose. 05:48:06 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 05:49:44 -!- `arrdem [~user@resnet-46-203.dorm.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:50:00 -!- nowl [~nowl@pool-173-48-242-12.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:55:07 This is a good lesson to (almost) never use-package. 05:56:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:57:05 -!- groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:04:46 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.78] has joined #lisp 06:07:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:09:00 gmcastil [~user@c-98-250-198-71.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:35 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 06:18:20 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host29.190-224-49.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:18:58 pnpuff [~sinc@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 06:20:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:21:38 pnpuff_ [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 06:23:27 pnpuff__ [~sinc@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 06:24:12 -!- pnpuff [~sinc@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:24:19 -!- pnpuff__ [~sinc@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:27:49 -!- pnpuff_ [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:29:19 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:45 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0141.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.225.141] has joined #lisp 06:30:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.225.141] has quit [Changing host] 06:30:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:33:44 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:34:31 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 06:36:19 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:37:02 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 06:39:07 -!- gmcastil [~user@c-98-250-198-71.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:20 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-226-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:33 valeryz [~valeryz@77-52-158-19.dialup.umc.net.ua] has joined #lisp 06:57:58 tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:01:39 gmcastil [~user@c-98-250-198-71.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:46 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:02:13 -!- tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:03:04 -!- syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:03:13 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 07:04:56 i just started learning lisp the other day and thought i had my CCL + quicklisp + slime + emacs working, but i'm getting strange errors where functions i write work fine in CCL but when i enter them in slime, i get failures - is this a dependency / incompatibility problem of some sort? if it is, what can i do to start eliminating possible problems? 07:05:16 *stassats* doesn't see any errors 07:06:24 gmcastil: you need to be more specific. use paste.lisp.org to paste the complete error message that you see 07:06:33 -!- valeryz [~valeryz@77-52-158-19.dialup.umc.net.ua] has quit [Quit: valeryz] 07:07:20 gmcastil: CCL is a lisp implementation (like SBCL, ABCL etc. ) while slime is an Emacs superior lisp interaction mode for lisp. 07:07:38 pnpuff: right, so the same code should work in both, but it doesn't 07:08:25 (defvar *db* nil) (defun add-record (cd) (push cd *db*)) 07:08:26 07:08:32 gmcastil: paste.lisp.org 07:08:37 k 07:09:04 and there is no "both". emacs is an editor, slime is an emacs based ide for common lisp, ccl is a common lisp implementation. 07:09:48 http://paste.lisp.org/display/136691 07:10:02 the error message is VERY clear 07:10:19 gmcastil: can you try reading the error message, please? 07:10:28 H4ns: if i run ccl from the command line or use ccl within emacs, aren't they still using the same lisp implementation? 07:10:57 gmcastil: they are not "using the same lisp implementation". ccl _is_ the lisp implementation. 07:11:37 H4ns: right, so if i run code from the ccl executable i have (~/bin/ccl) or from emacs, its still the same interpreter, correct? 07:11:40 gmcastil: now, looking at the error, do you recognize the problem? 07:11:43 yeah 07:11:47 wtf was i doing 07:11:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:57 gmcastil: ccl is not an interpreter, but a compiler. 07:12:17 gmcastil: what you start when you type the "ccl" command is what we call the "repl" 07:12:23 ah 07:12:35 gmcastil: maybe you want to read a few pages in your book to learn the basic terminology 07:12:38 ok, that makes more sense 07:12:44 H4ns: i have, i'm just really green at it 07:13:08 H4ns: i was sort of assuming i had done something wrong during installation 07:13:33 "when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras" 07:17:17 true story - i've spent 15 minutes trying to figure out why i couldn't load a file and just realized i wasn't using () around the function call 07:17:40 load "foo.lisp" just doesn't do it 07:18:05 gmcastil: you don't need to tell us that you think you're exceptionally stupid. we all went through that phase when we started. 07:18:18 gmcastil: if you had not already seen: http://www.cliki.net/Lisp%20books . A good first reading is "Practical Common Lisp" by Peter Seibel. 07:18:30 pnpuff: thats what i'm using 07:18:38 need to form some new habits 07:19:23 gmcastil: one habit could be "i'm not going to document every little step in my learning process in #lisp" 07:19:31 indeed 07:22:29 gmcastil: http://paste.lisp.org/+2XH0 07:22:58 how relevant 07:24:26 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 07:25:39 tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:25:51 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:40 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:05 teggi [~teggi@123.21.175.188] has joined #lisp 07:34:14 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:34:23 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.12] has joined #lisp 07:35:19 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 07:35:43 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.220.23] has joined #lisp 07:48:55 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 07:52:48 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 07:53:09 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:55:12 -!- gmcastil [~user@c-98-250-198-71.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55:50 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c0141.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:56:43 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c0141.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:57:55 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0141.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:58:15 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0141.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:58:53 ryoshu [~ryoshu@unaffiliated/ryoshu] has joined #lisp 08:02:21 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has joined #lisp 08:05:58 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:32 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:15 -!- Sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [] 08:08:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09:12 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:11:38 lujun [~lujun@101.69.73.132] has joined #lisp 08:13:45 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-221-81.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:19:07 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:19:51 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 08:20:26 -!- TML [~joey@unaffiliated/tml] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:22:05 TML [~joey@166.70.214.36] has joined #lisp 08:22:05 -!- TML [~joey@166.70.214.36] has quit [Changing host] 08:22:05 TML [~joey@unaffiliated/tml] has joined #lisp 08:26:15 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:28:39 Whitesquall [~notwhites@94.242.169.11] has joined #lisp 08:30:05 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:54 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 08:34:18 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:37:45 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-128-221.w92-156.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:40:32 Could someone explain me what does :metaobject parameter of class do or at least give me link to the book/acticle/etc where I can read about it? 08:40:48 hitecnologys: "metaclass" 08:40:50 minion: please tell hitecnologys about AMOP 08:40:50 hitecnologys: please see AMOP: The Art of the Metaobject Protocol, an essential book for understanding the implementation of CLOS and advanced OO. See the sepcification of MOP at http://www.alu.org/mop/ 08:41:42 stassats: thanks. 08:41:54 H4ns: metaclass, yeah. 08:42:35 H4ns: something went wrong in my head, I didn't notice that mistake. 08:44:03 protist [~protist@60.173.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 08:44:13 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:44:54 spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 08:45:45 ehu [~ehu@static-42-194-112-80.thenetworkfactory.nl] has joined #lisp 08:47:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:47:24 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 08:49:22 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:50:19 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 08:55:37 bitonic [~user@151.225.50.3] has joined #lisp 09:02:00 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:05:37 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 09:06:16 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 09:09:40 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:17:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:18:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:19:57 -!- TML [~joey@unaffiliated/tml] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:20:12 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 09:20:27 TML [~joey@unaffiliated/tml] has joined #lisp 09:23:00 ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:24:45 jasom: start on that ltk fork yet? 09:25:54 In SBCL the metaclass of standard-class, built-in-class and structure-class is standard-class. Is this standard? I can see the class precedence list of these classes in the hyperspec but that says nothing of their metaclass. 09:26:31 bioevolgenec [~bioevolge@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has joined #lisp 09:28:05 elia [~elia@2-238-29-218.ip242.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:30:29 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:37 Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.192.21] has joined #lisp 09:31:05 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 09:34:43 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:34:47 panosl [~panos@ppp-2-85-60-127.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 09:39:02 -!- joneshf [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:39:15 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Quit: Ack! Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 09:40:14 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 09:40:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:41:00 -!- rukubites [~user@d122-111-12-110.meb804.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:41:22 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-252-127.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:42:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:44:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:45:49 nordwind [~nordwind@93.81.236.40] has joined #lisp 09:49:39 Whitesqu_ [~notwhites@212.106.35.73] has joined #lisp 09:51:13 -!- Whitesqu_ [~notwhites@212.106.35.73] has left #lisp 09:52:37 -!- Whitesquall [~notwhites@94.242.169.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:53:00 -!- xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:53:13 -!- ehu [~ehu@static-42-194-112-80.thenetworkfactory.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:55:04 xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 09:55:06 -!- xristos is now known as Guest7579 09:56:41 -!- elia [~elia@2-238-29-218.ip242.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:00:29 elia [~elia@2-238-29-218.ip242.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:04:27 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:06:10 francogrex [~user@109.128.229.2] has joined #lisp 10:07:44 davazp [~user@178.167.224.219.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 10:10:16 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:10:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:10:49 talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 10:12:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:14:48 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:15:43 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:17:56 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:19:11 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:21:43 AeroNotix [~xeno@abov122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:24:13 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 10:30:49 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:55 segv- [~mb@f052228198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:33:53 -!- francogrex [~user@109.128.229.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:35:08 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:35:13 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-153-154.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:37:06 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-31-46.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:39:46 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.220.23] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 10:44:09 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.168.71] has joined #lisp 10:44:31 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:46:05 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:46:11 afternoon 10:47:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:47:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:48:53 -!- segv- [~mb@f052228198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:55:13 hi nikodemus 10:57:56 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:59:47 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 11:03:57 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 11:04:20 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.192.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:05:00 -!- Guest7579 [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:05:42 xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 11:05:43 -!- xristos is now known as Guest54565 11:06:30 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abov122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 11:07:56 hi 11:13:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:14:57 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:31 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:15:42 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:18:07 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:19:06 zickzackv [~faot@g226060186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:21:21 Hi, i'am searching for the documentation when (what release) introduced specific functions, namely current_schemas(). Is there such a document and if yes where? 11:21:48 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:22:04 changelogs ? 11:22:05 zickzackv: release of what? 11:22:11 trac entries ? 11:22:18 relase notes ? 11:22:29 xach: sorry, wrong chanel :-D 11:22:47 releas of postgresql 11:22:50 *release 11:24:00 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-136.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:28:49 -!- tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:29:30 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 11:31:04 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:35:48 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:36:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:38:32 -!- elia [~elia@2-238-29-218.ip242.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: (IRC Client: textualapp.com)] 11:44:12 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:44:44 agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:38 elia [~elia@2-238-29-218.ip242.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:48:35 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:48:42 leo2007 [~leo@li511-224.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:51:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:53:11 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:54:38 -!- elia [~elia@2-238-29-218.ip242.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:56:16 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:57:44 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 11:58:47 tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:01:01 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-128-221.w92-156.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.] 12:01:29 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:55 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 12:04:10 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-215-183-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 12:05:58 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:10:30 -!- tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:11:40 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g226060186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:52 zickzackv [~faot@g226060186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:12:35 MoALTz [~no@host86-137-70-143.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:14:44 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-161-102.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:15:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:18:38 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 12:24:02 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:18 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.220.23] has joined #lisp 12:33:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:34:09 -!- davazp [~user@178.167.224.219.threembb.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34:58 -!- lujun [~lujun@101.69.73.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:35:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:35:17 -!- leo2007 [~leo@li511-224.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:36:54 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 12:38:16 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-136.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:47:53 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-42-173.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:48:04 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-22-189.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:51:58 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:49 H4ns: so, it's all good? 12:53:11 stassats: yeah. maestro liked it, i'll release it in a minute or three 12:53:59 -!- ipmonger [~IPmonger@c-68-63-82-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ipmonger] 12:54:09 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:57:01 -!- nordwind [~nordwind@93.81.236.40] has quit [Quit: *] 12:59:47 -!- H4ns changed the topic of #lisp to: ======= 12:59:47 :version "2.0.4" 12:59:47 >>>>>>> stassats 12:59:50 gna 12:59:56 -!- H4ns changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: CL-PPCRE 2.0.4, DRAKMA 1.3.2, CFFI 0.11.1, Hunchentoot 1.2.17, SBCL 1.1.6, CHUNGA 1.1.5, CFFI 0.11.0, Babel 0.4.0 12:59:57 nice topic 13:00:16 first cl-ppcre release in 4 years! 13:00:36 now with arbitrary long regexpes! 13:00:50 (most of which can't be matched) 13:01:36 *stassats* hopes he's not blamed for breaking 4 years of cl-ppcre stability 13:01:47 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:30 -!- ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:38 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-136.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:06:26 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:08:46 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:12:38 elia [~elia@2-238-29-218.ip242.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:12:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:15:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:15:14 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 13:15:24 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 13:18:28 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 13:19:56 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:07 Oh my gosh, cl-ppcre release! 13:22:39 We need to celebrate this. 13:23:59 nha [~prefect@65.172.24.27] has joined #lisp 13:24:46 how about celebration by testing it? 13:25:54 Joreji [~thomas@66-041.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:29:15 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:29:50 stassats: good idea 13:31:12 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:31:26 davazp [~user@178.167.224.219.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 13:31:41 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:32:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:32:43 ck`` [~user@p508AB313.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:36:18 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 13:36:20 -!- elia [~elia@2-238-29-218.ip242.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: (IRC Client: textualapp.com)] 13:36:42 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g226060186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:39:32 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:39:36 Maybe would be nice update the cl-ppcre version available on Quicklisp from 2.0.3 to 2.0.4 if it's possible. thx. 13:39:48 -!- panosl [~panos@ppp-2-85-60-127.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:40:05 tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:41:54 *Xach* hopes cl-ppcre 2.0.4 does not require asdf3 13:43:21 panosl [~panos@ppp-2-85-60-127.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 13:44:28 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:44:41 -!- tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 13:47:32 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 13:49:06 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:54:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:54:42 Xach: not that i knew of 13:54:51 pnpuff: because? 13:55:35 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-252-127.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 13:57:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-041.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:59:33 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:27 H4ns: looking at http://weitz.de/cl-ppcre/#create-scanner , in the "Download and installation" section, there is a link to download the cl-ppcre 3.0.4 version ( http://weitz.de/files/cl-ppcre.tar.gz ) , but the command "(ql:quickload :cl-ppcre)" in Quicklisp downloads the 2.0.3 version... 14:01:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:02:05 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:53 H4ns: sorry ... looking at http://weitz.de/cl-ppcre/#install 14:03:08 silenius [~silenius@g226052254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:03:12 pnpuff: that is because the latest version is not yet in quicklisp. 14:03:33 Joreji [~thomas@66-041.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:03:46 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:05:24 Is there any difference between (defclass class ()) and (defclass class (standard-class)) except for number of characters? 14:06:09 hitecnologys: of course there is a difference. by default, classes do not inherit from standard-class. 14:06:10 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:06:23 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:06:29 H4ns: they inherit from T, right? 14:07:05 hitecnologys: i'm not sure if that is the right way to say it. 14:07:31 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:07:57 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:07:59 H4ns: aw, sorry, I'm just trying to understand CLOS insides. 14:08:20 they inherit from standard-object 14:08:23 hitecnologys: read keene and amop, in that order. 14:08:47 "If the superclass list is empty, then the superclass defaults depending on the metaclass, with standard-object being the default for standard-class." 14:08:53 clhs, it's useful 14:09:47 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 14:10:26 stassats: so there's not difference between () and (standard-class)? 14:10:35 there is 14:10:36 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-252-127.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:10:43 Ah, I'm moron. 14:12:03 There would be no difference between () and (standard-object) I'd say. 14:12:03 Thanks for answer. 14:12:06 -!- panosl [~panos@ppp-2-85-60-127.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:12:42 But what is the difference? 14:13:42 None AFAIK. 14:13:44 As I see in amop, initialize-instance checks if list of superclasses is empty and if it is, it sets standard-object as superclass. 14:13:59 I'm confused. 14:14:10 That's the difference between standard-object and standard-class. 14:14:21 Same difference as between class and metaclass. 14:14:29 Oh gosh, I'm idiot, thanks. 14:16:05 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:12 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:13 mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-200-44.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 14:16:13 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-200-44.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Changing host] 14:16:13 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:16:18 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 14:17:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-041.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:18:35 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:46 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:19:12 As I understood it, defclass actually creates instances of standard-object if no other metaclass specified. Is this correct? 14:19:40 No. 14:19:48 defclass creates instances of standard-class. 14:20:00 Those instances are subclasses of standard-object. 14:20:07 if no other metaclass is specified. 14:20:40 pbj: and standard-class instance stores all the stuff (slots, superclasses, etc)? 14:20:54 hitecnologys: yes. 14:21:54 And if I specify metaclass, it affects superclass of standard-class? 14:21:55 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Smalltalk_80_metaclasses.svg 14:21:55 well, defclass defines a class, which is usually an instance of standard-class (and classes are standard objects, but I don't expect metaclasses to change that often) 14:22:15 This is the diagram for Smalltak, but it's similar in CLOS and all Smalltalk-like OO systems. 14:22:21 -!- davazp [~user@178.167.224.219.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:23:49 Wow, now I get it. 14:24:10 CLOS is pretty cool thing. 14:24:35 ralph-moeritz [~ralph_moe@105.225.165.84] has joined #lisp 14:24:40 Thanks a lot, guys. 14:24:55 Joreji [~thomas@66-041.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:27:59 clos rocks 14:28:51 cddr [user@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:b02b] has joined #lisp 14:29:22 _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 14:31:46 Sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 14:32:31 Anyone used cl-oauth? None of the examples seem to actually make a request to protected resource 14:33:46 Looking to use yelp and wondering where to plugin the various secrets and tokens 14:38:44 -!- ralph-moeritz [~ralph_moe@105.225.165.84] has left #lisp 14:38:49 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 14:46:00 hi 14:49:08 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:55:26 k0001 [~k0001@host29.190-224-49.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 14:55:43 hey 14:56:50 davazp [~user@92.251.159.138.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 14:57:04 dnolen [~user@rrcs-208-105-4-254.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:57:08 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 14:59:08 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:59:24 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:33 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:09 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-195-27.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:29 s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-195-27.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:37 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 15:01:20 Yuuhi [benni@pD9F990DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:32 -!- brendyn [brendyn@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:02:53 -!- yeltzooo [~yeltzooo@ec2-54-241-122-161.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:03:39 -!- cibs [~cibs@118.163.170.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:04:54 yeltzooo [~yeltzooo@ec2-54-241-122-161.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:02 brendyn [brendyn@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has joined #lisp 15:05:09 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:46 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:05:58 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:07:05 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl7-161-182.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 15:07:40 -!- gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 15:07:51 tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:12:04 err, what's the way to print lazy function output in sbcl ? 15:12:24 i always get a output shown.... 15:12:53 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:43 -!- brendyn [brendyn@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 15:13:59 gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has joined #lisp 15:14:09 -!- solvip [~solvip@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:16:21 wbooze: what do you mean? 15:16:41 solvip [~solvip@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has joined #lisp 15:16:59 xani [~user@178.183.142.79.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 15:17:55 slow-jam-asd, http://blog.thezerobit.com/2012/07/28/lazy-sequences-in-common-lisp.html 15:18:15 common lisp doesn't have lazy functions 15:18:20 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-128-221.w92-156.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:20:05 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:16 wbooze: the output you're looking at denotes the function itself. that's just sbcl's way of saying what CCL says with # hitecnologys: I'm new to CLOS, and to start I'm looking at http://www.ravenbrook.com/doc/2003/07/15/clos-fundamentals/ . At the end there is a little graph on CLOS class in CL titled "C. Partial class hierarchy" and maybe could be useful to you. I personally like the Joswing's graph: http://i.stack.imgur.com/Nmrml.jpg . There are even more bigger graph regarding CL type hierarchy like here: http://sellout.github.io/2012/03/03/common-lisp-type-hierarchy/ . 15:27:20 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl7-161-182.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 15:27:28 -!- icrazyhack [~horieyui@180.154.125.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:27:41 Wow, looks awesome. Thanks pnpuff. 15:28:06 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:28:27 Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:32:20 Henesy [~h3n3sy@adsl-75-17-76-187.dsl.peoril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:27 xani` [~user@178.183.130.183.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 15:32:32 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:42 zickzackv [~faot@g225049024.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:33:22 Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-116.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 15:33:28 icrazyhack [~horieyui@180.154.125.13] has joined #lisp 15:33:37 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 15:33:57 groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #lisp 15:34:40 Hello everyone, is there a quick way to get a sublist similar to how l[3:4] works in Python? 15:34:50 clhs subseq 15:34:50 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_subseq.htm 15:35:00 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:35:05 but what do you want to do with this sublist? 15:35:44 casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:53 -!- xani [~user@178.183.142.79.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:36:48 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:37:45 I have a single line, with stuff like (2 100 200 3 300 400 500), and i need to extract the length of sublists (2 3) and the sublists (100 200) 15:37:53 s/line/list/ 15:38:07 thanks btw 15:38:22 but what do you do after you extract it? 15:38:28 do you process it in some way? 15:39:00 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl7-161-182.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:39 sec I will lisppaste 15:43:44 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g225049024.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:45:09 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:34 Trying to fix this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/136695 15:47:06 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:47:21 ; is a comment 15:47:38 I know, put it there as a marker for code i am trying to put there 15:47:43 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-221-81.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:11 ok, #| code here |# would be an inline comment then 15:48:21 I need to put length+2 in place of ;;1;; and the sublist in place of ;;2;; 15:48:31 ah ok 15:49:58 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.168.71] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:50:13 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 15:50:52 longlene [~loong0@112.21.54.98] has joined #lisp 15:51:29 -!- tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:51:36 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.159.138.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:51:40 I will use subseq to get the sublist, but still need to set the step correctly, I am doing something else wrong.. 15:51:42 i don't really understand what it's supposed to do, any concrete description? 15:51:58 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@46.233.236.16] has joined #lisp 15:52:42 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-berfjgnusdekkvce] has joined #lisp 15:54:19 sure, so when I have the list (2 300 2 100 200 900 3 300 400 500) it needs to make two function calls to make-decision, which searches the element-list and returns the two elements which add up to sum with binary search. I am just trying provide the input to make-decision properly. 15:54:32 -!- longlene [~loong0@112.21.54.98] has left #lisp 15:55:07 what do the numbers in (2 300 2 100 200 900 3 300 400 500) mean? 15:55:17 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.220.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:55:32 do they have any significance, besides being numbers? 15:55:51 ekd123 [7c595016@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.89.80.22] has joined #lisp 15:56:05 It seems like it's pairs. 15:56:07 davazp [~user@31.200.175.143] has joined #lisp 15:56:10 car is number of choices to make 300 is sum 2 is number of elements in the first case, 900 is second sum 3 is second number of elements 100 200 300 400 500 being the elements of lists in specific cases 15:56:16 2 - 300, 2 - 100, etc. 15:56:33 -!- hitecnologys1 is now known as hitecnologys 15:56:51 Hydan: i see 15:57:28 Hydan: is that a format invented by you? 15:57:41 <|3b|> Hydan: don't compare numbers with EQ 15:57:42 Hello everybody. Does anyone here know the limitations of ACL free express edition? (I've known sth about the licensing. I want to know the real limitation of the dev env) 15:57:52 nope, that is just the input my program has to parse... 15:57:55 ekd123: talk to support@franz.com 15:58:14 *hitecnologys* agrees with |3b| 15:59:01 H4ns: thanks 15:59:13 <|3b|> Hydan: and if you want to do something N times with LOOP (and don't need the index for anything), use REPEAT N 15:59:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-041.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:00:02 right! that's what I should have done.. 16:00:21 Joreji [~thomas@66-041.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:24 *|3b|* would probably just POP things off the list rather than trying to maintain indices for that matter 16:00:38 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:00:38 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 16:00:44 what's the rule of thumb for eq eql equal anyway? 16:01:02 i don't think i've ever used eq 16:01:03 ehaliewicz: use eql always 16:01:05 <|3b|> EQL unless you need something else 16:01:07 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192142.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:11 wouldn't you have to reverse it first? this lists can be up to 10k elements per each case 16:01:32 I use eql for symbols and keywords, then equal for compound data 16:02:37 silenius: what i don't get is that thing has an primary method for print-object....which uses to-list....but which does have no effect as far as i can see.....i shouldn't have to invoke (to-list....) explicitly i thought....maybe i was wrong..... 16:02:46 Hmm.. I almost always use `equal' 16:02:49 eq is safe to use for symbols 16:03:13 -!- ck`` [~user@p508AB313.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.225.141] has joined #lisp 16:03:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.225.141] has quit [Changing host] 16:03:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:03:28 <|3b|> yeah, if you need large subsequences of the list, POP might not be the best... might still be tempted to chop it up destructively though 16:03:41 -!- protist [~protist@60.173.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:05:53 <|3b|> or rather modify the binding to move to next entry, actually modifying the list structure would require more thought 16:09:13 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 16:09:56 http://paste.lisp.org/display/136695#1 16:10:49 i don't remember whether loop updates or rebinds, so i did my own update 16:11:31 nha [~prefect@65.172.24.27] has joined #lisp 16:11:36 <|3b|> unspecified if i remember correctly 16:11:56 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:11 Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has joined #lisp 16:12:28 no, i think it's setting 16:13:12 well, at least for for =: "In the for-as-equals-then subclause the for or as construct initializes the variable var by setting it to the result of evaluating form1 on the first iteration, then setting it to the result of evaluating form2 on the second and subsequent iterations" 16:13:52 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:13:57 -!- Guest88915 [~adiaphoro@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:14:04 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:10 I see everyone here use loop keywords without ':. Is this ok if I use :for instead of for, :while instead of while, etc? 16:14:16 ':'* 16:14:21 it is ok 16:14:37 i will scream and shout if shown a code with loop with :keywords 16:14:37 hitecnologys: it is ok, but it looks ugly 16:14:52 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:15:07 Okay. 16:15:12 "ok" as in "it will work" 16:15:20 I changed the function that reads the file in and now I have: (("2") ("4") ("5") ("1 4 5 3 2") ("4") ("4") ("2 2 4 3")) to loop over. I think to further change it to read the objects from string there as well.. a.i. if there is only 1 element read in, otherwise read in each element and create a list. 16:15:26 #:for x #:in will work too 16:15:38 Oh, shit. 16:16:13 This looks *really* ugly. 16:16:23 but, no interning! 16:16:31 -!- ekd123 [7c595016@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.89.80.22] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:17:12 lol 16:17:28 xificurC [~xificurC@adsl-dyn236.78-98-85.t-com.sk] has joined #lisp 16:18:10 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192142.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:18:57 "The iteration control clauses for, as, and repeat must precede any other loop clauses, except initially, with, and 16:18:57 named, since they establish variable bindings.", so, they first establish, then update 16:19:48 and it refers to 16:19:51 clhs glossary/step 16:19:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_s.htm#step 16:19:58 [1] 16:23:02 anyhow, that http://paste.lisp.org/display/136695#2 seems to be a better way 16:23:21 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:24:44 of course, if you're parsing text, you're in a better position to create lists (or vectors) suited directly 16:26:13 stassats: yes, not doing that right away was my bigger error I think, doing it now. thanks I've learned something new anyway (: 16:26:44 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 16:28:24 Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 16:28:46 *stassats* relearned something old 16:31:56 I return (2 4 5 #(1 4 5 3 2) 4 4 #(2 2 4 3)) now (: much better 16:32:18 the lengths are really redundant 16:32:56 Bike_ [~Glossina@71-34-69-125.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:37 yeah, I'll skip them 16:34:45 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-221-81.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:35:49 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-173-79.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:06 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:37:21 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279585040.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:42 Bike [~Glossina@71-34-74-150.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:56 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-041.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:40:14 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@71-34-69-125.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:40:43 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002f74.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:43 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 16:43:31 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.50.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:43:58 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:44:05 Joreji [~thomas@66-041.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:48:03 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@125.Red-79-150-204.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:49:33 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl7-161-182.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 16:49:53 -!- davazp [~user@31.200.175.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:51:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:53:08 hitecnologys: I was looking at (and (eql (class-of ':for) (class-of '#:for)) (eql (class-of ':for) (class-of 'for))) 16:53:37 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@76.178.163.213] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:54:02 keyword isn't a class. 16:54:13 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl7-161-182.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:54:26 pnpuff: Oh god, it t. 16:55:38 Bike: not a standardized class 16:56:03 right 16:56:04 on CCL: (class-of :key) => # 16:56:27 so that AND form doesn't have any meaning 16:57:40 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:58:14 Flame_Alchemist [~Flame_Alc@host95-101-dynamic.45-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:58:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.225.141] has joined #lisp 16:58:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.225.141] has quit [Changing host] 16:58:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:01:28 -!- cddr [user@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:b02b] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:02:12 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279585040.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:03:04 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 17:03:51 -!- Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:05:38 Yinne [Knirr@37.250.189.22.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 17:06:10 Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 17:07:50 Is this really important to use (reduce #'+ list) instead of (apply #'+ list) or exceeding of max arguments number is very rare kind of errors? 17:08:33 it's not rare, and it can be disastrous 17:08:43 -!- Knirr [~Knirr@c-da4ae555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:08:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 17:09:07 on sbcl, there's no max argument number 17:09:30 so, you'll be greeted by some pretty stack exhaustion 17:09:43 Wow, I thought there is. That's pretty cool. 17:10:22 call-arguments-limit => 4611686018427387903, might as well assume it doesn't exist 17:10:28 lol 17:10:33 abeaumont [~abeaumont@233.Red-83-61-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:43 Okay, thanks again. 17:11:03 and the lower bound for CALL-ARGUMENTS-LIMIT is 50 17:11:10 stassats: except c-a-l lies. 17:11:21 Lower bound? 17:11:31 clhs c-a-l 17:11:31 call-arguments-limit: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_call_a.htm 17:11:35 hitecnologys: implementations have to have c-a-l be at least 50. 17:11:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:11:48 stassats: so I don't know that assuming the limit doesn't exist is a good idea. 17:12:05 Why I get an error from : (loop #:for i upto 10 do (type-of #:for)) ? thx. 17:12:12 Wow, 50 arguments... 17:12:29 <|3b|> pnpuff: #:for probably isn't bound as a variable? 17:12:32 because #:for is not a bound variable 17:12:43 pnpuff: #:for is not a bounded variable. 17:13:02 pkhuong: you won't be able to allocate a list of that length 17:13:06 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 17:13:16 valeryz [~user@211-62-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:11 stassats: I think I can if I use The Power of Grid. 17:14:35 But I'm not really sure if I can allocate virtual memory though internets. 17:14:37 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:44 through* 17:15:00 cibs [~cibs@118-163-170-73.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:32 why I get the same result from: (loop :for i upto 10 do (type-of :for)) and (loop :for i upto 10 do (type-of i)) and the result of (loop #:for i upto 10 do (type-of #:for)) is not equal to (loop :for i upto 10 do (type-of :for))? thx. 17:15:59 <|3b|> pnpuff: :for is bound as a constant, i is a variable 17:16:16 pnpuff: because #:for is unbound. 17:17:09 <|3b|> and none of those loops return anything specific (if they return at all) 17:17:11 (type-of #:for) treats for as a variable which contain something. 17:17:33 treats #:for* 17:18:12 Actually, yes, I agree with |3b|. All expressions return NIL. 17:19:40 pnpuff: what are you trying to prove so hard? 17:20:37 hitecnologys: nothing I'm interested in #:keywords used in loop 17:20:59 <|3b|> #: makes uninterned symbols, not keywords 17:21:01 pnpuff: lol, ok. 17:21:32 anyway |3b| , you're right ... maybe (loop :for i from 0 upto 2 do (format t "~D" (type-of i))) is a little more useful. thx a lot anyway. 17:21:53 ~d? 17:21:56 <|3b|> clhs ~d 17:21:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cbb.htm 17:22:08 well, it fall back to ~a 17:22:13 Btw, what is better to use in defpackage and in-package? #:symbol, :symbol or "SYMBOL"? 17:22:24 :symbol 17:22:34 (because i like it that way) 17:22:34 Why not #:symbol? 17:22:45 Knirr [~Knirr@c-da4ae555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:22:48 hitecnologys: #:symbol is "better" 17:22:59 I like "UPPER-CASE-SYMBOLS" because it fails on modern mode. 17:23:11 lol 17:23:55 :symbol uses less space in the source code 17:23:58 I used to use #:symbol, but sometimes it refuses to work for some unknown reasons so I started to use :symbol some time ago. 17:24:20 hitecnologys: #:symbol always works. 17:24:35 Does iterate have keyword support like loop? for => :for (experiment says no but i don't see a reason why it wasn't supported) 17:24:50 H4ns: I know, it were just some other mistakes somewhere. 17:24:55 nan_: because that would break extension. 17:24:55 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.180.94] has joined #lisp 17:25:03 -!- Yinne [Knirr@37.250.189.22.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:25:06 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:25:09 pkhuong: ahaa thanks! 17:25:16 H4ns: but those mistakes made me to write :symbol instead of #:symbol, I don't know why. 17:25:58 n1x [~n1x@unaffiliated/n1xnc0d3] has joined #lisp 17:26:36 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:26:52 *stassats* doesn't write [#]:symbol, he uses C-c x 17:26:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:27:49 Lol. 17:27:53 `arrdem [~user@resnet-46-203.dorm.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 17:28:50 Dunno how to unexport it ._. 17:28:59 C-u C-c x 17:29:21 Wow, thanks. 17:30:01 see http://slime-tips.tumblr.com/post/10851398604/exporting-symbols and http://slime-tips.tumblr.com/post/10851398604/exporting-symbols 17:30:17 Thanks. 17:30:36 But this is the same links... 17:30:51 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:30:53 yes 17:30:55 link* 17:30:59 http://slime-tips.tumblr.com/post/36279729555/exporting-symbols-part-2 17:33:53 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:34:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-212.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:41:27 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:42:10 ebw [~user@f050209241.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:44:20 stassats: nice tips! why there is not a unexport-class? (there is symbol export-unexport) 17:45:37 because i didn't write it 17:46:23 hm, cl.net cvs seems to be up 17:48:22 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:48:47 davazp [~user@31.200.167.74] has joined #lisp 17:49:03 AeroNotix [~xeno@abov122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:49:12 maxm: applied your patch 17:50:17 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 17:51:47 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host29.190-224-49.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:53:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:55:35 nan_` [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 17:56:44 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:57:52 -!- nan_` [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:54 -!- groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Quit: It is now safe to turn off your groovebot.] 20:32:00 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:00 20:32:00 -!- names: ccl-logbot TML DrCode bitonic kcj meiji11 snowylike puchacz axion PuercoPop youlysses xificurC stassats valeryz Thra11 dnolen mrSpec ebw` kpreid dmiles_afk eskatrem bioevolgenec1 balajir AeroNotix Knirr cibs CrazyEddy abeaumont Strigoides hugod Joreji tali713 morphling Bike ehu Odin- nha kliph zophy adelgado casion icrazyhack Hydan xani` Henesy Tarential ehaliewicz solvip gko Adlai pavelpenev yeltzooo Yuuhi s0ber ejohnson Denommus Sambio _d3f nilsi silenius 20:32:00 -!- names: iLogical gravicappa cdidd MoALTz eldariof spion agumonkey danlentz bjorkintosh Guest54565 kennyd edgar-rft talas Myk267 spacefrogg_ angavrilov Fullma b1rkh0ff ryoshu prxq mishoo Mon_Ouie stat_vi yacks sykopomp setmeaway easye weie rking Dalek_Baldwin joshe rpgsimmaster joneshf-laptop ISF KDr2 erikc Tanami Oddity dented42 Jubb knob tensorpudding _veer alagabes ASau Nisstyre cyphase blackwolf Krystof notori0us impulse wormphlegm bolcselo macrobat oticat` 20:32:00 -!- names: stardiviner two- Guest36791 rvchangue naryl Vivitron rtoym ogamita Vutral Spion_ Praise antgreen Codynyx [SLB] poindontcare rdd Patzy patrickwonders ucb sirdancealo2 pegu cmm lusory billstclair ianmcorvidae fasta sshirokov _schulte_ sigjuice johs cYmen pers` madnificent The_third_man pib1956 |3b| aajmakin PaulHarr1s CampinSam JPeterson yrk Anarch loke mathrick_ quazimodo banjiewen pchrist buhman minion specbot freiksenet ozialien copec milosn_ akovalenko 20:32:00 -!- names: miah zbigniew gendl naeg Natch pjb benny ecraven luis leoncamel Xach Ralt arbscht Jabberwockey clog igorw ezakimak ozzloy araujo joast techlife mtd H4ns weirdo NimeshNeema cmbntr scharan _8david rvirding dan64 strobegen maxm srcerer Neptu sbryant antifuchs ether0_ bege Yamazaki1kun froggey flip214_ expez teiresias davorb nuba redline6561 vhost- EvW prip jdz AntiSpamMeta balle arrsim SeanTAllen walter wyan lemoinem gf3 Blice_ j_king Posterdati dRbiG 20:32:00 -!- names: nightfly__ rabite_ foom Tordek az PuffTheMagic wchun karupanerura peterhil Khisanth kanru Amadiro jaimef N3RG4L Adeon em __main__ mutley89 Zhivago ered housel p_l pw_ varjag hpd sepi`` samebchase xorp Euthy cmatei nicdev koisoke tomaw djinni` pkhuong pok cpt_nemo cods felipe guther gabot galdor brucem dlowe hohum Tribal tessier_ sytse spacefrogg^ Nshag erg gemelen newcup rotty tkd schoppenhauer nitefli19 antoszka Subfusc robot-beethoven SHODAN fe[nl]ix 20:32:00 -!- names: surrounder hq1 kirin` zxq9 phadthai spacebat deleuz ivan subtlepath theBlackDragon BlastHardcheese dpwright Viaken smull_ BeLucid_ stopbit tychoish slava dotemacs cic_ ineiros KingNato_ fihi09 TristamWrk Mandus ThePhoeron quasisane nitro_idiot acieroid vsync ting12 yroeht kyl ft eli asedeno aoh daimrod jayne rfgpfeif1er finnrobi Tristam zz__ yan_ felideon eak oconnore gensym eventhorizon sklr tvaalen tic_ DrForr_ arkx DrPete adeht peccu1 vert2 setheus_ 20:32:00 -!- names: ivan\ zmyrgel stokachu Borbus jasom ``Erik brighid oGMo kranius deliciousrobots sfa brown` eMBee fds whartung scode fmu cross n0vember ramus xrq mal_ justinmcp eichelbart dim otwieracz jonasac jsnell Fade wc aerique elliottcable guaqua z0d 20:32:02 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002f74.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:32:29 -!- nha [~prefect@65.172.24.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:33:12 similarly to c.l.l. 20:34:06 -!- Sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:38:36 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:39:43 I am no CL pro :-) 20:41:23 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-155-18.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:43:17 ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has joined #lisp 20:43:25 corni [~corni@p4FE3826A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:43:25 -!- corni [~corni@p4FE3826A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 20:43:25 corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has joined #lisp 20:43:56 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:46:38 davazp [~user@92.251.199.115.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 20:46:40 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:47:09 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:49:44 who's a CL pro by the way? (CL pro = someone who makes a living from CL) 20:50:17 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 20:50:23 depends what you mean by "making a living from" 20:50:27 H4ns: that wasn't my impression in general, although I'm only subscribed there since early 2011 and my personal archive might be pruned of uninteresting stuff 20:50:33 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@233.Red-83-61-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:50:48 phadthai: i was thinking more of the last year or so. 20:51:07 using CL and getting paid for it, enough to live from that income, is there something unclear here? 20:51:47 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:52:04 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abon217.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:52:17 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-155-18.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:53:00 I'm not, I wish I were 20:53:18 but I don't know where exactly the Common Lisp market is 20:53:38 eskatrem: I agree that it can be subject to interpretation... using mostly CL for a living must be rare, but using CL as part of other tools as a consultant or hired programmer is probably much more common 20:54:18 does Paul Graham make a living from Lisp? 20:54:36 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abov122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:54:38 he at least did at some point at Yahoo I think 20:54:40 pro was meant to be a list for people who know cl. 20:55:29 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-226-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:56:00 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-215-183-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:56:02 as for stassats's unsubscription it wasn't my intention, but I still feel that my reply was necessary at some point... oh well 20:56:11 eskatrem: I do 20:58:06 -!- balajir [0e607e7d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.14.96.126.125] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:59:05 fl[nl]ix: I am envious of you then. Often I read some chapter of some books about lisp and it makes me sad not to use that at work 20:59:13 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-155-18.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:59:46 abeaumont [~abeaumont@210.Red-83-49-71.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:56 eskatrem: since I don't use at work, I use every time I can. I'm using it right now on Google Code Jam 21:01:04 eskatrem: there are a few companies that use cl. 21:01:08 phadthai: I read somewhere that Yahoo reimplemented from scratch in C++ the software pg built in CL 21:01:13 -!- _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 21:01:22 eskatrem: I think you're right 21:01:52 I wonder why would they do that. Is this the old "it doesn't scale" excuse? 21:02:05 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-7-81.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:02:18 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 21:02:23 phadthai: well, as the code he wrote in CL enabled him to retire, you can say that he's still making a living from CL 21:02:26 there's also the issue of hiring programmers, especially when you need a fair number as a project is growing 21:02:42 scaling is not just about the programming language, it is about the team that exists. 21:02:44 there are way more C++ and Java programmers 21:02:59 Denommus: no idea if it is documented, but an erroneous "because it is obviously better" would be enough for quite a few people. 21:03:15 -!- xificurC [~xificurC@adsl-dyn236.78-98-85.t-com.sk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:03:21 Or, you know, bus factor. 21:03:49 for me, if someday I create my own company, I'll never ever hire someone who only knows one programming language 21:04:58 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 21:05:57 there's also the popularity of particular libraries or frameworks, if that's what's currently popular, the language it uses gains more momentum, an example being ruby with rails 21:06:06 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.199.115.threembb.ie] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:07:47 phadthai: I'm adept of the theory that a better language requires less programmers, and that Lisp programmers tend to be smarter than the average because they really care about programming 21:07:54 -!- valeryz [~user@211-62-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:58 If you are a C++ programmer, and your company buys a bunch of Common Lisp code and tells you to maintain/use it, what do you do? Or if you are a *team* of C++ programmers. 21:07:59 (despite that occurring at a time when the only existing ruby interpreter was very slow) 21:08:08 (ie. the manager of that *team* of C++ programmers). 21:08:15 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:30 see the light and learn Lisp! 21:08:34 :) 21:08:41 pjb: Teach them to Greenspun 21:08:51 Yes, and fire 3/4 of the team? Unacceptable to the programmers and to their manager. 21:08:55 Denommus: the problem starts when you've got a problem that your common lisp superprogrammer can't solve and you can't pair them with a second superprogrammer for reasons like "not social" 21:08:57 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-137-70-192.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:09:13 Odyessus: it only delays the problem. Once greenspunning is done, you fire 3/4 of them too. 21:09:17 pjb: I think it is a poor business decision to let a programmer rewrite a whole system, unless it is completely broken, which I think it was not the case with PG's software 21:09:34 Denommus: how do you know? 21:09:50 I don't know. I said "I think" 21:10:17 Denommus: your theory about the Lisp programmer being smarter, I don't think it's particular for Lisp, but I think it's true for any non mainstream programming language 21:10:19 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-137-70-143.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:10:28 eskatrem: probably. 21:10:39 maybe for them, it being written in lisp already constituted "being completely broken" 21:10:51 ASau` [~user@p4FF96382.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:51 eskatrem: yes, it is. I'd put the same trust on a Haskell or Prolog programmer 21:11:00 smart programmers don't mingle well - unless the organization is large enough to hire a large number of smart programmers. 21:11:39 You guys all read "the bipolar lisp programmer", right? 21:11:40 I'm mingling. Am I less smart than I thought? 21:11:43 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:11:59 I encountered a situation where I needed to rewrite a whole system (which was incomplete, to be fair). But all the files of the system where on only one directory, there was no documentation or architecture to work on whatsoever, my boss (which I think wrote the thing) never had the time to provide me explanation or documentation, and, to put the nail on the coffin, it was written in ASP 21:12:02 pjb: are you in a common lisp shop? 21:12:10 Nope :-( :-( :-( 21:12:16 pjb: see? 21:12:22 I can perhaps think of a similar case, cvsup, written in I think modula2... the cvsup maintainer had to also maintain a compiler, and eventually as BSD teams still using CVS felt that cvsup was too much pain to maintain, csup was written in C, initially for FreeBSD 21:12:28 at those times, my favorite language was Ruby, because RPG Maker XP. Then I learned Rails and rewrote the system in... 4 weeks? 21:12:47 but I wouldn't say that other people should do the same. It was a corner case 21:13:18 Denommus: let me guess - you didn't get along well with that boss from then on? 21:13:26 -!- ASau [~user@p5797FF1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:13:34 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 21:13:59 prxq: I actually really like her, it was one of the friendliest bosses I have ever the pleasure to work with. Her only problem is that she was just too busy, all the time 21:14:37 at my company, I am *not* mingling. I am a statistician in a game company, at some point I had to do something with the code of a game we're making, I was depressed by having to deal with what I think is a complete pile of sh*t, and now I am rewriting the parts of the game I need in java script (because it's straightforward to deploy) 21:14:40 I called her *it*. I promise it was an accident 21:14:59 she was getting her mastering degree, was working on the company, openning an institute, and my project was quite on the corner 21:15:02 sorry I don't get the greenspun reference (I do know his 10th rule) 21:16:33 rvirding: if they rewrote the lisp thing in C++, they most likely implemented a... 21:17:04 anyway, I think of a good programmer as somebody that is passionated about what he does (to the point of going out of his place to learn and make new things, only being "oh my god, I love this language" isn't enough). But he also needs to know how to work with other people's code, otherwise he is not that good 21:17:17 -!- ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:24 I don't consider myself to be a good programmer. I'm not very good on understand other people code 21:17:41 Denommus: being good also includes being able to work with other people, programmers or non-programmers. 21:17:58 Denommus: same as you, my code-reading is really bad. I think I lack the patience 21:18:26 H4ns: I agree 21:19:33 but, as a personal experience, people who say the most they're mature and are able to work with other people are also the ones who create the biggest amount of problems internally 21:19:34 most likely you just expect to understand other peoples code right away. 21:19:34 My personal opinion is that in the future (like in 50 years), there will be only top notch programmers doing stuff like OS or language design, and lots of people will be "X's who can program", X being doctor, scientist, engineer, etc. 21:19:54 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:19:58 it seems that being social makes you talk behind everybody's back more often 21:20:27 being social is overrated.... 21:20:31 prxq: that's right, and when I don't I am more like "wtf is that sh*t? I shouldn't have to do some effort to figure out what this does? this code sucks" 21:20:33 Denommus: well, idiots are everywhere. programmers or non-programemrs. 21:20:39 wbooze: it is clear that you say that 21:20:54 prxq: why on earth would they want to implement it in c++ ? :-) 21:21:13 Denommus: in the end, choice of programming language is only a very tiny fraction of the decision space that makes a project a success or failure. 21:21:17 tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:21:20 rvirding: are you talking about yahoo's reimplementation of viaweb? 21:21:32 H4ns: not me, some saying..... 21:21:53 H4ns: indeed. But I wouldn't make a system in Java myself, nor would I hire Java drones 21:22:12 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 21:22:13 I mean, if I was a boss 21:22:30 because I do Java systems everyday 21:22:38 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 21:23:26 rvirding: back then the popular choice was between perl and C++ for "dynamic pages" 21:23:47 generally why implement something in a higher level language in a lower level language? 21:24:17 because you don't know the higher level language 21:24:25 or the old "it doesn't scale" excuse 21:24:33 I really don't know where this comes from 21:25:05 or you just like it better in a lower level language for reasons of aesthetics 21:25:45 many decisions, technical or otherwise, are taken this way. 21:28:38 personally, I think C++ is really ugly, aesthetically 21:29:00 silenius_ [~silenius@g225084022.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:29:15 I know people who disagree. They hate our walls of parentheses. 21:29:15 rvirding: because back then all of Yahoo was written in C++ 21:29:48 most people disagree. I also hated it at some point, until I learned how to navegate through it properly 21:30:38 proper indentation also helps 21:30:42 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:26 -!- silenius [~silenius@g226052254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:32:35 Denommus: I agree, as when learning early algebra, by learning and using lisp, the structure becomes more obvious and the parens mostly disappear 21:32:53 actually, some people configure emacs/slime to mostly hide them too 21:33:04 just get a CL system and link it to a C++ system and you can program in lisp and still be c++ compliant 21:33:07 ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:17 don't take me too seriously :-) 21:33:47 rvirding: what I meant is that they had hordes of C++ developers in-house, and no CL programmer 21:33:59 and Paul left almost immediately after the acquisition 21:34:26 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:34:33 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0141.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:35:15 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 21:36:18 I would think it strange to buy a system in another language than you are using and NOT employ some people who can understand it. Even if you intend to rewrite it that will give you the best result 21:39:09 -!- xani` [~user@178.183.130.183.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:42 -!- corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:44:26 corni [~corni@p4FE3826A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:44:26 -!- corni [~corni@p4FE3826A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 21:44:26 corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has joined #lisp 21:47:13 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:49:03 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abon217.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 21:50:30 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-berfjgnusdekkvce] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:50:44 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:22 rvirding: you are right, but the people in charge of the acquisition must have thought: "this stuff is neat, we gonna buy it and our engineers will figure out how to integrate it with the rest of our system." 21:52:07 bioevolgenec [~bioevolge@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has joined #lisp 21:52:38 -!- bioevolgenec1 [~bioevolge@athedsl-89974.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:53:39 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:55 is there something similar to car/cdr & co. for vectors? 21:54:22 (defun var (v) (aref v 0)) (defun vdr (v) (subseq v 1)) 21:54:27 Hydan: no 21:54:35 Hydan: yes, see above. 21:54:50 gotcha, ty both (: 21:54:51 -!- bioevolgenec [~bioevolge@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has quit [Client Quit] 21:54:54 lol 21:54:58 var/vdr 21:55:01 car/cdr 21:55:27 Sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 21:56:17 var already exists 21:56:53 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:57:16 v-ar? 21:57:20 and v-dr? 21:57:34 rvirding: they had to re-implement it in C++ because otherwise, they would have had to learn Common Lisp, and they would have realized that their augmented productivity couldn't justify anymore a team of 50 C++ programmers, when they could do it with 5 lispers. So they would have all but five to be fired. Neither the programmers nor their manager could accept that! 21:57:37 vcar vcdr 21:57:48 var exists ? 21:58:04 (describe 'var) 21:58:24 pjb: it's not the same thing 21:58:27 cdr doesn't cons 21:58:37 debug.lisp 21:58:39 rvirding: and it's not strange at all to buy it: it removes one competititor! And a dangerous one at that! 21:58:42 oh man 21:59:13 fe[nl]ix: right: (defun vdr (v) (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.utility:nsubseq v 1)) 21:59:13 pjb: actually, they probably should have all 50 fired. 21:59:17 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 21:59:20 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:59:40 ehu: if they couldn't learn CL, but on 50 C++ programmer, I'm an optimist, you can find 5 people able to learn CL. 22:00:01 that's indeed optimistic :-) 22:00:29 ehu: In my opinion C++ is much more complicated than Common Lisp. 22:00:38 pjb: I like your reasonning, but it makes me wonder why no lisp company isn't taking over the world 22:00:55 ebw`, sure, but how many c++ programmers truly know c++? they know some small subset of it. 22:00:56 I mean, google isn't a lisp shop for example 22:00:58 ITA's taking over the world? 22:01:08 -!- ebw` is now known as ebw 22:01:12 ebw`: it is. You must do manually the work of a compiler 22:01:13 pjb: I know of the value of large projects in corporations and buying out a competitor, but it is still not the most efficient way. 22:01:13 eskatrem: not yet. They've got the virus inside already. 22:01:19 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:31 dude, ITA's has been bought by google 22:01:37 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:01:48 what is ita ? 22:01:52 err ITA 22:01:54 and google has been smart enough not to rewrite it in C++ :-) 22:01:58 ITA software. 22:02:04 eskatrem: because everytime you get 5 lispers together they start to argue about functional vs OOP, Lisp-1 vs Lisp-2, and Common Lisp or Scheme 22:02:12 ah a company 22:02:21 or talk about languages for... what, two hours 22:02:22 ITA software was bought by Google? I didn't know 22:02:28 don't know about taking over the world, but when I see where lispers work and what they do.. damn interesting stuff.. 22:02:44 see: Emacs 22:02:56 Bike: like us just now? :) 22:03:04 that's the joke, yes 22:03:16 Bike: yeah, we've done that forever now 22:03:55 Hydan: care to give examples? 22:04:14 novasparks, teclo and many others use lisp and do very interesting stuff, big companies can keep their blobs, I don't mind (: 22:04:18 pjb: What implementations does making a displaced array not cons on? 22:04:45 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:05:00 ok, I'm quitting from code jam. I'm not capable enough :( 22:05:47 Hydan: I don't care (yet) about the companies, but I am curious of what interesting stuff is built in Lisp. I know for sure making a symbolic algebra system is much easier in Lisp as you need the tree structure of a function, but appart from that... 22:06:25 eskatrem: what do you define as interesting? 22:07:38 davazp [~user@178.167.251.113.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 22:07:55 -!- dnolen [~user@rrcs-208-105-4-254.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:09:01 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0141.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:06 Denommus: hard to say actually 22:09:18 Denommus: I follow http://lispjobs.wordpress.com/ just to be informed about lisp companies and what they do(I'm extremely not qualified to work as a pro lisper yet :) 22:09:21 eskatrem: I am not proficient enough in CL to give you that kind of detail, but what I personally love about lisp has almost nothing to do with that part anyway. 22:09:32 eskatrem: Crash Bandicot was interesting. 22:09:59 I'd say: something that requires more algorithmic complexity than the "average" project 22:10:29 eskatrem: you could search for google code jam's solutions in lisp and compare to other languages 22:10:42 good idea 22:11:15 I wrote an alternative version of my fair and square submission for the current qualification round in Lisp 22:11:45 Unfortunately not fast enough for the large sets, I need some memoisation that I was too lazy for. Maybe I'll come up with something before the time runs out. 22:11:46 my solution wasn't fast enough 22:11:54 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:55 Bike: it's so little consing, compared to the size of the array. Just like (cdr x) returns a copy of the pointer to the (cdr x). You must also count stack and register usage! :-) 22:11:59 Denommus: *handshake* 22:12:16 Denommus: But it was considerably faster than the equal version in Perl :-) 22:12:19 I have no idea what could possibly get faster 22:12:27 I've had this idea for a long time, but I dont think I've the skills to do that: write in lisp a version of visicalc/excel, so the lisp language would be available from the cells. Would that be interesting? 22:12:32 pjb: fair enough. 22:12:44 eskatrem: Org Mode 22:13:23 it's emacs lisp, and it's an extension for Emacs (which comes bundled in it), but I think it counts 22:13:23 Denommus: not really 22:13:43 prxq: why not? You can use Lisp in the cells 22:13:44 eskatrem: that's already been done several times over. cf. KR and Cells in CL, ses in emacs. 22:14:17 Denommus: iirc it is quite clumsy and cumbersome. 22:14:57 but it works 22:15:27 -!- pjb [~user@AMontsouris-651-1-192-178.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: restart] 22:16:03 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@84.93.172.95] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:06 walter [~walter@ip-64-134-101-130.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:23 Thra11 [~thrall@84.93.172.95] has joined #lisp 22:17:02 pjb [~user@AMontsouris-651-1-192-178.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:17:20 -!- tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:24:16 kenanb [~user@unaffiliated/kenanb] has joined #lisp 22:27:27 -!- ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:30:06 ... ok, I just had a subtle idea 22:30:22 on CLOS, I can have private methods using the packaging system, right? 22:30:44 -!- spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:30:59 Of course. 22:31:16 (defmethod private::private ((self my-class)) 'private!) 22:31:28 Even more: (defmethod private::%private ((self my-class)) 'private!) 22:32:25 I can't guarantee to have private slots, though. But it is a bad form to access slots directly, right? 22:32:56 Sure: (defclass my-class () ((private::%private-slot :accessor public-accessor))) 22:33:30 Then try to do (setf (slot-value (make-instance 'my-class) 'private::%private-slot) 42) and see what the chief programmers does to you! 22:34:12 Even more: (defclass my-class () ((#:private-slot :accessor public-accessor))) 22:34:52 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025029.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:35:19 is "private" a package created by you, or does it really exist? 22:35:43 That said, I wouldn't advise #:private-slot. slot-value provides the lowest level access to the slot, and having systematically an accessor wrapping over it is a good OO thing, since it lets you write before, after and around methods on the accessor. 22:35:52 Denommus: created by you indeed. 22:36:26 (defpackage :my-program.private (:use :cl)) (defpackage :my-program (:use :cl :my-program.private)) 22:36:38 You can have unexported symbols. Methods and slots can equally be named with exported or unexported symbols. 22:36:59 even the initargs can be unexported symbols. 22:37:15 Czechton [~Czechton@cpc8-lewi14-2-0-cust162.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:37:47 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-17-229.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:09 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0141.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:40:20 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:33 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025029.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 22:43:12 jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 22:46:47 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 22:48:12 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.50.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:48:52 brendyn [brendyn@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has joined #lisp 22:50:31 -!- walter [~walter@ip-64-134-101-130.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:53:08 -!- ebw [~user@g227064049.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:04 With slime, (defgeneric m (x) \n (:method-combination c) \n (:method c ((x k)) \n (body))) ; (body) is aligned with c instead of :method. How to correct that? 22:57:08 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.12] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:57:53 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:09 -!- eskatrem [~user@81.60.148.24.dyn.user.ono.com] has left #lisp 23:05:35 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:08:25 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 23:09:48 stillman [~j0ni@75-119-251-189.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:14:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-136.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:14 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:20:04 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:11 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: casion] 23:26:23 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:48 macs 23:30:57 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:43 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:32:25 casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:02 ? 23:35:03 what 23:35:33 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:35:35 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:36:13 Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.224] has joined #lisp 23:40:03 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:08 stillman_ [~j0ni@75-119-251-189.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:42:59 -!- stillman [~j0ni@75-119-251-189.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:48:51 -!- jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving]