00:00:37 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:00:39 people are probably more aware of quality of life in VC and so forth now, due to internet. bartender i thought was cool was moving there to open a bar by the waterfront. unfortunately i'd just met them and missed the move 00:01:21 http://www.facebook.com/events/502993556407615/ <-- that was the event where a famous house music DJ said the Vancouver is tops ... "BOY GEORGE (DJ set) w/ Marc Vedo" 00:01:22 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:45 10 years ago I moved from Toronto to here, and also when I started lisping ... 00:02:18 So the house scene picking up is somehow related to common lisp picking up! 00:04:03 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:02 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:05:22 -!- cmm- [~cmm@109.64.146.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:05:28 weirdo [sthalik@kronstadt.misaki.pl] has joined #lisp 00:05:38 quicklisp is what got me hacking on lisp again; prior to that my experience was It's easier to write a buggy ill-specified version of 80% of a library than it is to get someone elses library up and running on my machine 00:06:27 cmm [~cmm@109.64.146.130] has joined #lisp 00:06:41 -!- mrm [~user@94.41.225.169.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:08:04 jasom: quite true... I think the revival of CL has a lot to do with quicklisp... I have thrown away the git repo that every project used to hav efor libraries, and now look for things before re-inventing them. 00:12:29 thanks for those links drewc. mood changer 00:13:32 -!- joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:13:43 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:16:22 NeverMined: glad I could help :) 00:16:35 rme [~rme@50.43.190.179] has joined #lisp 00:23:20 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.97.215] has joined #lisp 00:29:10 CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:30:46 linse [~marioooh@199.180.99.212] has joined #lisp 00:32:35 androcles [~jeff@ip70-187-173-84.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:46 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:35:33 sjo` [~user@rrcs-71-42-218-145.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:43:29 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit 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a.b.bind(a)(c) 03:21:38 interesting 03:21:46 Given bind, integration with multimethods is straight-forward. 03:21:47 ah, or add syntactic sugar macros to call methods if that's what you meant, of course 03:22:30 Then a.b.bind(a) can become (lambda (c) (b a c)), and so on. 03:22:44 k, tx 03:25:01 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 03:28:47 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-173-79.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:31:57 -!- Denommus [~Denommus@201-8-194-112.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:36 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: casion] 03:33:48 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:34:31 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.182.221] has joined #lisp 03:35:41 -!- Gruu_ [~Gruu_@213.211.132.86.static.edpnet.net] has quit [Quit: Gruu_] 03:39:50 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 03:41:39 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Leaving.] 04:22:11 rrradical [~rrradical@209-6-197-118.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:25:00 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:25:07 ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has joined #lisp 04:25:07 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has quit [Changing host] 04:25:07 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #lisp 04:27:34 gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has joined #lisp 04:28:29 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.146.114.144] has joined #lisp 04:31:17 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-4-63.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:31:22 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.126.217] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:31:56 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:32:39 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 04:33:09 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:37:13 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.146.114.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:37:33 gmcastil [~user@216-160-191-3.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:30 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.23.198.219] has joined #lisp 04:38:39 i'm interested in starting to learn common lisp and was going to use the PCL along with emacs to do so - apparently, if i want to do that, i need to install a lisp and then use something like slime to interface with it. Does this sound right or am I missing smething? 04:39:09 sounds right. 04:39:26 -!- Tuxedo [~tuxedo@bas3-cooksville17-3096516824.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:39:29 if you have a lisp, emacs, and quicklisp, you can quickload quicklisp-slime-helper to get slime going. 04:39:49 -!- igorw [~igorw@phpbb/developer/evil3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:41:16 ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has joined #lisp 04:43:29 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:43:38 quicklisp is a bunch of libraries, right? 04:43:48 It's a thing for installing libraries. 04:43:52 Its mor of a package manager 04:44:10 ah, yeah it did't look like a lisp 04:44:26 im on mac os - recommendations for a lisp i should install? 04:44:34 clozure common lisp 04:44:35 ccl 04:44:35 ccl 04:44:37 google told me http://www.mohiji.org/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-osx/ 04:44:40 hah 04:44:46 irc has spoken 04:45:02 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 04:45:10 so, ccl + quicklisp and then quicklisp slime helper to get slime going? 04:45:18 based on a long line of lisps for mac, once owned by apple itself 04:45:19 gmcastil: right 04:45:27 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 04:45:39 i love the internet 04:46:05 is the pcl a good place to start? 04:46:15 gmcastil: yes 04:46:21 I also think so 04:46:26 gmcastil: provided you already know a bit of programming 04:46:38 if you happen to struggle with it, you might consider A Gentle Introduction To Symbolic Computation 04:46:42 Keep in mind if you're going to be using CCL you don't really need 04:46:51 SLIME 04:47:08 gmcastil: ignore ohnoitsavram, use slime 04:47:08 :) 04:47:12 -!- rk[sun] is now known as rk[moon] 04:47:29 if you know emacs+slime you can use multiple implementations on multiple OSs 04:47:46 H4ns: i've learned a bit of a bunch of languages - python, matlab, C, bash - but never really decided to try to develop a solid background in one 04:48:09 H4ns: settled on lisp, mostly because what little i've done with it was incredibly fun 04:48:11 gmcastil: pcl should be fine, "gentle introduction..." is a goot fallback 04:48:18 good 04:49:11 -!- Guest70953 [~lukas@194.228.13.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:50:10 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 04:50:14 igorw [~igorw@phpbb/developer/evil3] has joined #lisp 04:50:39 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 04:54:34 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:54:35 I'm actually reading PCL now, and it's fantastic, so far. I just finished the chapter on writing an unit test framework. 04:55:15 asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has joined #lisp 04:57:56 -!- gmcastil [~user@216-160-191-3.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:52 -!- rme [rme@6D10F4DD.4CC8819B.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:58:52 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.190.179] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:59:35 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 04:59:36 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:03:15 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@12.151.150.4] has joined #lisp 05:03:15 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@12.151.150.4] has quit [Changing host] 05:03:15 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:03:58 -!- syrinx_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:04:47 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has joined #lisp 05:05:47 gmcastil [~user@216-160-191-3.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:55 -!- igorw [~igorw@phpbb/developer/evil3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:07:29 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:08:43 teggi [~teggi@113.172.53.76] has joined #lisp 05:08:59 igorw [~igorw@li559-253.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 05:08:59 -!- igorw [~igorw@li559-253.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 05:08:59 igorw [~igorw@phpbb/developer/evil3] has joined #lisp 05:18:13 cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-32-121.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:21:47 -!- gmcastil [~user@216-160-191-3.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:26:56 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 05:27:31 momo-reina [~user@anon76.nordvpn.com] has joined #lisp 05:30:52 gmcastil [~user@216-160-191-3.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:15 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:34:22 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:35:20 momo-rei` [~user@aa20111001946f573a1b.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:35:51 i'm installing clozure + quicklisp and slime, and i've gotten to the point where i want to modify my .emacs file to reference my inferior-lisp-program but i'm a little stuck 05:36:15 -!- gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl_] 05:36:26 these are the lines clozure tells me to add to my .emacs 05:36:27 (load (expand-file-name "~/quicklisp/slime-helper.el")) 05:36:27 (setq inferior-lisp-program "") 05:36:27 05:36:40 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:36:50 -!- momo-reina [~user@anon76.nordvpn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:36:52 do i want to tell it the path to clozure? 05:37:02 yes. 05:37:11 whats the executable its looking for? 05:37:34 this is what mine says : (setq inferior-lisp-program "sbcl -K full") 05:37:44 gmcastil: Wherever you installed ccl. 05:37:45 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.23.198.219] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 05:37:55 it's just whatever you call from the command line 05:37:56 i installed using the app store, which may have been a mistake 05:38:18 gmcastil: does running 'ccl' on the command line work? 05:38:37 no, it doesn't 05:38:40 Just find the /Applications/CCL/... / path down to the dx86x64 binary, some ls & cd on the command line should do the trick 05:38:50 i tried putting that in there and it didn't work - looks like there is a path poblem 05:39:09 p_nathan: now i know what exe to look for, thanks 05:39:31 i woulda thought the app store would do the real installation for you. 05:39:36 yeah, me too 05:39:39 it didn't 05:39:45 wonder if i should just remove it and start over 05:39:50 i hate the app store 05:40:04 gmcastil: So why are you using it? 05:40:09 a moment of weakness 05:40:11 It's so easy! 05:40:17 yeah yeah yeah 05:40:25 fsvehla [~fsvehla@178.115.248.133.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #lisp 05:40:26 I never even updated to mountain 05:40:34 But seriously, the ccl script just runs dxwhatever anyway 05:40:35 couple brews on board...figured installing lisp and slime couldn't be all that hard...you know how it is 05:40:36 10.6 is pretty awesome. 05:40:39 My macs are still on liona dn works great 05:40:50 but yeah, 10.6 was better 05:40:51 have they fixed the battery issues with mountain? 05:41:04 i think they did 05:41:13 i had no choice but to upgrade to lion 05:41:28 i'm mainly using a VM with arch for dev work but I've been thinkin of updating to mountain 05:42:25 It's funny. I was a huge fan of OSX from around 10.3. Then I realised they lost it when the flipped the friggin' mouse wheel direction. 05:42:38 (they lost it somewhat earlier, but I didn't realise) 05:43:03 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 05:43:17 loke: you mean scroll up to go down? it kind of makes sense with the touch screens and i don't notice it with the touchpad anymore 05:43:31 momo-rei`: you can fix that 05:43:49 loke: which version of clozure do i want for mac os? freebsd? 05:44:15 gmcastil: doesn't really bother me, i kind of like it now 05:44:17 momo-rei`: Well, it's less comfortable to move your fingers up, and you scroll down most of the time... 05:44:27 -!- erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: erikc] 05:44:28 momo-rei`: They really hid the options to fix the scroll direction 05:44:58 gmcastil: Just type the following: svn co http://svn.clozure.com/publicsvn/openmcl/release/1.9/darwinx86/ccl 05:45:07 but i have been thiking of just dropping mac and getting an ultrabook for my next machine, i'm in a VM most of the time and it just doesn't make sense to split the resources between guest and OS 05:45:42 loke: i'm not using subversion 05:45:44 I recommend debian or gentoo linux to people who don't have a need to do anything os-specific 05:45:52 loke: is the darwin version the one i want to install? 05:45:54 it also plays real nice with sbcl 05:46:38 loke: that was a dumb question - its the only one with a .dmg image 05:46:43 on that note, does anyone have any experience with both CCL and sbcl? 05:46:57 what do you want to know? 05:46:57 i've only used sbcl but I head that CCL is quite good 05:47:14 what are the main differences? 05:47:14 they're both good. 05:47:21 ccl compiles much faster, for one 05:48:16 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 05:48:46 CCL is considerably speedier in compile time and takes less RAM. It also has great OSX integration 05:49:04 SBCL seems to be better on Linux and I gather its compiled code is faster. 05:49:24 I don't think either CCL or SBCL are bad choices. 05:49:24 what about built-in functions? networking, alien routines, etc? 05:49:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-74.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:49:41 I summon libraries from quicklisp that wrap that stuff for me. 05:50:09 momo-rei`: first step after getting lisp implementation running should be getting Quicklisp 05:50:21 momo-rei`: then grab portable libs that wrap such things around 05:50:30 hmm... so not that different from each other I suppose? i'm enjoying SBCL, Clisp was a bit slow 05:51:06 *|3b|* suspects most of the people who would use both, also use portability libs for stuff like networking or ffi 05:51:55 p_l: yeah i'm quite dependent on quicklisp, though I haven't had much time to look in to 3rd party libraries, still working on the built-in functions 05:52:25 in general I don't have to dive into system-specific functions and libraries. 05:52:39 most of the time I recommend going with QL stuff rather than built-ins 05:52:51 but that might be related to why I am on CL and not on Scheme :> 05:53:09 p_l: more portable that way? 05:53:16 momo-rei`: yep 05:53:26 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.236.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 05:53:33 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:53:41 with Scheme, every. single. implementation was incompatible with each other outside of most basic things 05:54:15 mc40 [~mc@host86-148-31-142.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 05:54:17 momo-rei`: most long-term common lip systems are very conformant and standardized. 05:55:18 i'm confused - i downloaded the CCL darwin image, mounted it, and the instructions say to drag the ccl directory into applications, but there isn't a ccl directory 05:55:46 gmcastil: didn't a pop-up appear when you mounted the image? 05:56:07 gmcastil: there should be CCL.app or something like that in the image? 05:56:18 yeah, there are apps - is that what the instructsion refer to? 05:56:43 momo-rei`: afaict, http://www.cliki.net/CFFI will give you a generalized tool to wrap C libs. I have never used it though. 05:56:55 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 05:57:02 gmcastil: yes 05:57:20 gmcastil: OSX's ".app" folders are the applications 05:57:25 p_nathan: ah... that might really be handy, thanks 05:57:39 p_l: yeah, so i installed both the 32 and 64 bit versions 05:58:29 p_l: if the install is complete, i should be able to run ccl from the command line, right? 05:58:54 gmcastil: unfortunately not, you'll have to make yourself an alias or add the contents to path apropriately 05:58:58 p_nathan: a few months ago i just had to call a c function with sb-alien and it was a bit intense for me... some of the guys here had to help me out 05:59:04 p_l yeah it doesn't work 05:59:24 I don't remember details, them most I've run OSX for this year was twice, to test out AirPlay :> 05:59:30 gmcastil: use subversion just the one time, to check out ccl as you've been told above 05:59:57 H4ns: i dont subversion installed - would that install it locally as a user, as opposed to system wide? 06:00:03 gmcastil: or use "brew install clozure-cl" 06:00:14 gmcastil: i second what H4ns says, i installed SBCL on OSX that way and i didn't have any problems 06:00:35 all the instructions i've fuond for installing quicklisp used sbcl as the example 06:00:46 gmcastil: don't overthink it 06:01:07 yeah, i don't know why this is so compilcated 06:01:08 yo, just install svn. :P 06:01:09 gmcastil: you can also "brew install sbcl" if that feels better according to what you've read :) 06:01:14 i don't have brew either 06:01:18 syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:18 -!- syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:01:18 syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 06:01:23 gmcastil: that's probably cuz Xach uses SBCL, should be the same 06:01:37 gmcastil: do you use macports? 06:01:44 -!- mc40 [~mc@host86-148-31-142.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:01:46 no 06:01:58 sounds like something i should be using 06:02:05 gmcastil: no, use homebrew 06:02:17 gmcastil: everything will suddenly be very easy 06:02:38 gmcastil: http://mxcl.github.io/homebrew/ 06:02:57 mc40 [~mc@dab-bhx1-h-67-1.dab.02.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:46 its installing now 06:03:53 thank god i had ruby at least 06:04:07 gmcastil: apple supplies that, for some reason that i can't fathom 06:04:20 and an old broken version of python i htink 06:04:34 i downloaded xcode and tried to get that to work and couldn't find any of the executables 06:04:48 gmcastil: you need to install the command line tools from the xcode ide 06:04:56 yeah, i just got an error from that 06:04:57 wtf 06:05:13 should i not run 'brew doctor' until i've installed cli tools? 06:05:17 arrdem [~user@resnet-46-203.dorm.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 06:05:23 -!- mc40 [~mc@dab-bhx1-h-67-1.dab.02.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:05:37 install the cli tools first, otherwise brew doctor will give you that as the prescription 06:06:10 oh how i miss linux 06:06:11 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 06:06:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 06:06:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:06:21 -!- arrdem [~user@resnet-46-203.dorm.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06:23 gmcastil: you'll be happy soon. 06:06:56 for some reason, my xcode install doesn't have an option to download cli tools 06:07:02 i must clearly be doint it wrong 06:07:28 it is in "preferences -> downloads" 06:07:35 or is that what apple calls "core library" 06:07:41 yeah, i'm in there - read apple's help page 06:07:48 I click everything and go have a beer 06:07:56 p_nathan: i like your style 06:08:16 preferences -> downloads -> components 06:08:19 have had a couple already, which is why i sound retarded 06:08:32 if it's not there, throw your mac into the bin and get a real computer :D 06:08:34 oh...duh...i was looking at docs 06:08:41 no no, my mac is safe 06:08:57 a little threatening can't be that wrong 06:09:09 next year though, my self-gift beore grad school is a real computer with something like 6 monitors 06:09:22 i feel so hamstrung with this 13" window into what apple will let me know about my computer 06:09:53 hahaha.. i've always used threats on my computers... funny that most of the time they call my bluff 06:10:01 I've always found it to be a matter of resolution, rather than size. 06:10:09 not size...number 06:10:31 one display with 4 spaces is just not the same as dual monitors 06:10:44 I would advise a 15" Linux laptop 06:11:24 yeah, i'm leaning that way, but i'll be going to medical school (hopefully) and virtually everything is done with powerpoint 06:12:10 I've always found multiple monitors to be far worse than a single one of comparable resolution. 06:12:12 actually, i'm planning to do an MD / PhD, so for the graduate school part, a linux desktop is probably the best thing 06:12:13 a doctor with a linux laptop, haha! 06:12:14 http://thinkpenguin.com/ sells a couple off the shelf Linux laptops 06:12:33 i've used linux for ages, although not in the past 4 years or so 06:12:55 H4ns: physicist -> medical school -> something like computation bio or biostats 06:13:15 how's the lenovo x1 carbon for linux? that's on my final candidate list for next machine 06:13:18 the medical world is so oblivious to how things actually could be 06:13:31 momo-rei`: i had a lenovo laptop as my last linux laptop and it was badass 06:13:39 google pixel seems nice but a bit heavy and lacking in the battery department 06:13:47 leo2007 [~leo@111.161.47.175] has joined #lisp 06:13:54 gmcastil: that's what people tell me, haven't tried one yet 06:14:30 from my perspective, if i'm in grad school and will be logging 12 hours a day at a console, there is no reason to use a laptop 06:14:34 gmcastil: i was a bit of an asus boy till i finally bit the bullet and went with an Air 06:14:42 particularly since most everything is synced with things like dropbox or evernote 06:14:56 oh...the medical world has no idea what LaTeX is 06:15:07 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.97.215] has left #lisp 06:15:13 gmcastil: What are they using then? 06:15:13 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 06:15:17 word 06:15:31 jpg, png, and gif are required figure formats for journal submissions 06:15:34 its inane 06:15:57 word, my girlfriend's dad is a surgeon and it's word all the way 06:16:03 yeah 06:16:06 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:16:19 my girl is a physician, done a bunch of research, and didn't know what latex was until i showed her my lab reports 06:16:34 hell...she didn't know keyboard shortcuts existed to switch between applications 06:16:59 docs think they're geniuses, but they're operating with a 1970s knowledge of computers 06:18:05 KDr2 [~KDr2@111.161.70.16] has joined #lisp 06:21:48 cli tools finally done 06:22:25 wow, does homebrew pretty much rewrite your entire config? 06:22:29 -!- momo-rei` [~user@aa20111001946f573a1b.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23:00 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:23:09 so, i ran brew doc and got a bunch of errors 06:23:37 mostly about permissions, libraries, and order in my path - are those things i should worry about? 06:24:47 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@178.115.248.133.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:25:11 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01223e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:42 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025029.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 06:31:48 gmcastil: i think computer operators in the 1970s had a much higher knowledge of computers 06:33:00 Is there something like find but that returns the cons object found in the common-lisp package? 06:33:15 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:33:42 ohnoitsavram: member 06:34:13 Bike: thankyou, the set functions are easy to overlook 06:36:44 -!- rrradical [~rrradical@209-6-197-118.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:30 In ECL CLOS they don't use COMPILE anywhere to compile effective methods - should they be? They do occasionaly EVAL things and EVAL uses a byte-code compiler to first compile the expression. Could a side-effect of EVAL be to compile effective methods and slot accessors? 06:41:13 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:41:51 gmcastil: for the best experience, brew doctor's complaints should all be acted upon 06:42:13 For example: (eval '(lambda (x) (print x))) returns a # Is a side-effect of this eval to compile the lambda expression and return a compiled-function? 06:43:20 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:43:38 (compiled-function-p (eval '(lambda (x) (print x))) to find out 06:46:14 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:47:29 H4ns: so, once i get brew doctor satisfied, what is it that will make me so happy? 06:48:01 -!- sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [] 06:48:13 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 06:48:16 Bike: Thanks! 06:48:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:48:43 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 06:49:02 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 06:50:09 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.97.215] has joined #lisp 06:50:10 Weird: (compiled-function-p (eval '(lambda (x) (print x))) on ECL locks up - it might be because I've messed with it. 06:50:19 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:50:34 But: (eval '(lambda (x) (+ 1 x))) ---> # 06:50:45 So I guess the answer is yes. 06:57:41 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.218] has joined #lisp 06:58:57 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 06:59:59 wow, xcode takes hours to install 07:03:30 stuck with 2 minutes to go for the last 15 minutes 07:04:21 drmeister: it was just missing a closing paren :) 07:05:02 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:08 indeed on ECL everything is compiled like on SBCL, but to bytecodes, with COMPILE-FILE/COMPILE compiling it to C (and DISASSEMBLE works on bytecode but not on C/native code, unlike for SBCL) 07:06:51 so the REPL was "blocking" waiting for the statement completion only 07:07:05 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:07:10 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:03 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@76.178.163.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:10:42 Joreji [~thomas@73-048.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 07:11:26 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:12:03 H4ns: xcode is done - brew doctor recommends that i move /usr/local/bin above /usr/bin 07:12:25 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:13:09 foreignFunction1 [~niksaak@94.27.88.212] has joined #lisp 07:13:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:13:25 zorkmoid [c2ed8e11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.17] has joined #lisp 07:13:37 ;Good morning! 07:13:50 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.199] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:13:58 -!- foreignFunction1 is now known as foreignFunction 07:14:36 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:14:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-048.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:15:15 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.212] has quit [Client Quit] 07:15:41 -!- gmcastil [~user@216-160-191-3.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:46 p_nathan [~Adium@76.178.163.213] has joined #lisp 07:16:11 madnificent: thanks for the tip 07:16:27 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.212] has joined #lisp 07:17:25 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 07:17:32 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:19:29 -!- syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:30 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192093.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:20:50 reckler [~reckler@ppp118-208-148-143.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:17 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@76.178.163.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:23:21 ASau [~user@p5797FF8D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:00 tcr1 [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:25:59 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28:47 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 07:29:35 -!- joneshf [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:30:39 joneshf [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.11.211] has joined #lisp 07:31:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.11.211] has quit [Changing host] 07:31:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:31:17 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:31:59 p_nathan [~Adium@76.178.163.213] has joined #lisp 07:34:12 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:34:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:36:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:37:20 ck__ [~ck@dslb-094-219-145-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:24 -!- breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:40:17 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:41:19 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:41:44 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-74-216.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:43:16 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192093.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - 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From Quicklisp? 09:28:52 yeah 09:29:01 i followed the quicklisp instructions 09:29:03 weird 09:29:16 i also had slime installed within emacs 09:29:42 gmcastil: from where? ELPA? 09:29:45 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.174.76.228] has joined #lisp 09:30:02 yeah, i went and looked up where its at and its in ~/emacs.d/elpa/slime-.... 09:30:09 delete it 09:30:32 do not use slime from ELPA - Quicklisp grabs the current one and gives you the helper to load it in Emacs 09:30:46 ok, should i use quicklisp to fetch it again? 09:30:51 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314458.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:30:53 (after deleting the elpa version) 09:31:01 gmcastil: yep 09:31:04 k 09:31:09 gmcastil: (ql:quickload :quicklisp-slime-helper) 09:31:18 when i run CCL, i get a warning about Swank interfaces not being implemented 09:31:18 it should also give you instructions on using slime-helper to load slime 09:31:21 and it'll spew out a snippet of code you need to put in your emacs config 09:31:24 yeah, it does 09:31:26 and i did all of that 09:31:42 but id imagine having the ELPA version might be a problem 09:32:08 i'll remove it through the pkg manager 09:32:49 gmcastil: ELPA would conflict, yeah 09:33:17 <|3b|> don't worry about the interfaces not implemented warning 09:33:27 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:33:55 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192070.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 09:34:17 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192070.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 09:35:42 TML [~joey@166.70.214.36] has joined #lisp 09:36:09 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:36:31 KDr2 [~KDr2@111.161.70.16] has joined #lisp 09:38:33 all done 09:38:50 is there a way to test my installation and make sure its working properly? 09:39:22 gmcastil: load something that has some dependencies (i.e. (ql:quickload :hunchentoot)) 09:39:30 from ccl? 09:39:53 gmcastil: then type "(hunchentoot:start" M-. in the repl, you should then be in the hunchentoot source code. 09:39:55 from slime 09:40:24 slime reached out to the quicklisp domain and started downloading an ass wagon of things 09:40:34 right. that is its job. 09:40:44 finished with (:HUNCHENTOOT) in red 09:40:47 slime didn't do that 09:40:50 nice. 09:40:51 red is usually bad, but i'm assuming this is good 09:41:05 yeah. it is good. type what i suggested above 09:41:07 stassats`: yeah, i see - it invoked quicklisp to do the rest 09:41:23 with the "? 09:41:38 no, without 09:42:01 M-. is "option" and "dot" 09:42:02 is it missing a ) ? 09:42:15 no. don't type enter. just meta-dot to get to the source 09:42:25 option is meta by default. 09:42:26 says 'edit definition of: 09:42:33 yeah, i got that 09:42:51 place your cursor over the hunchentoot:start, then type M-. 09:43:08 M-, gets you back to where you came from with M-. 09:43:51 opens up a new buffer called *slime-xref* 09:44:07 oh. well, yeah, wait 09:44:15 with a long path to hunchentoot-1.2.14/acceptor.lisp 09:44:20 which is all well 09:44:40 go to one of the definitions, type enter 09:44:55 just getting started with lisp - what is a definition 09:45:18 something which defines something 09:45:20 oh, you mean inside acceptor.lisp? 09:45:21 there is the line with the path, and two lines with definitions for hunchentoot:start 09:45:33 ya 09:45:40 choose one, type enter, then you're at the source location where that definition comes from. 09:45:44 then just hit enter 09:45:45 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002bef.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:45:54 so all is well. 09:45:59 yup, (defgeneric start (acceptor)) 09:46:04 On a related note I've been trying to make my .sbclrc install quicklisp if its not already there. I do this by using sb-ext:run-program with wget and curl (depending on which is installed, preferring curl) to get quicklisp.lisp. I then load quicklisp.lisp and then I theoretically call quicklisp-quickstart:install, but I can't do that because that package doesn't exist yet so the reader complains. So that's where I'm stuck. Befo 09:46:04 says anything I know that downloading a remote executable file and running it is insecure, I am happy to take that risk for the personal convenience. 09:46:37 H4ns: thanks - gonna take a long time before i get to where i understand all of this 09:46:47 ohnoitsavram: use (intern "SYMBOL" (find-package "PACKAGE")) 09:46:55 ohnoitsavram: you can put the that do the actual installation into a separate file that you then load 09:47:35 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.50.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:47:36 ohnoitsavram: or you can put the actual installation of quicklisp into a second conditional top-level form 09:48:35 ohnoitsavram: (i.e. (unless (probe-file "~/quicklisp/setup.lisp) (get-quicklisp) (setf *install-quicklisp* t)) (when *install-quicklisp* (ql-quickstart:install))) 09:49:00 ohnoitsavram: not tested, but you get the idea (top-level forms are read one after the other) 09:50:01 Odyessus: surely not intern 09:50:06 (when *install-quickisp* (apply (intern "INSTALL" (find-package :ql-quickstart)) 09:50:14 Odyessus: not needed. 09:50:20 Ok. 09:50:41 Odyessus: the whole find-symbol/intern dance is only needed if the package is defined in the same top-level form that references it. 09:50:55 (talking about LOAD behavior here, obviously) 09:50:56 *Odyessus* defers to H4ns. 09:51:12 *Odyessus* is typing at an iPad, without a REPL. 09:52:12 how is slime any different than just running CCL directly? 09:52:27 have you tried it? 09:52:28 (aside from the fact its inside emacs0 09:52:32 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:52:46 stassats`: i just started learning lisp about 10 minutes ago 09:53:02 the difference should be apparent in less than a minute 09:53:18 *Odyessus* waits for it. 09:53:20 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:53:49 they're both REPL right? 09:53:53 -!- snearch [~snearch@brln-4db93507.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:53:57 gmcastil: slime+emacs is the ide. you can certainly work without, but it'd be much less productive. 09:54:10 H4ns: thats what i thought 09:54:19 gmcastil: it starts with the lack of a good line editor when you're using the bare repl. 09:54:28 just like running idle or ess 09:54:35 gmcastil: type hunchentoot: in the slime repl 09:54:51 minion: please tell gmcastil about slime.mov 09:54:51 gmcastil: direct your attention towards slime.mov: "using SLIME" video by Marco Baringer, http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov 09:55:29 H4ns: so, slime is just an ide for using ccl or sbcl or whichever common lisp i've chosen then 09:55:51 and its also configured to use quicklisp for expandability? 09:56:01 slime doesn't use quicklisp 09:56:10 gmcastil: slime is installed through quicklisp, nothing beyond that. 09:56:54 so, whats the purpose in using quicklisp (other than installing slime, which i could have done manually) 09:57:05 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.218] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:57:17 minion: please tell gmcastil about quicklisp 09:57:18 gmcastil: direct your attention towards quicklisp: Quicklisp is an easy to use package manager for CL. For more information see http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 09:57:39 gmcastil: you will need libraries to do anything useful, and quicklisp installs and updates them for you 09:58:25 i see, makes sense now - so, i could install them by running from within slime or CCL 09:58:30 makes no difference 09:58:35 right 09:58:36 because they're the same 09:58:41 just a different interface 09:58:51 ok, that helps a lot, thanks 09:59:08 One is a super-set of the other. 09:59:32 for suitable set-theoretic notions. 09:59:35 *easye* waves hands. 10:00:17 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-088.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:00:22 hah 10:00:47 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.218] has joined #lisp 10:04:42 ellusioner [ellusioner@c-0d1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:04:59 :H4ns :Odyessus thanks for the pointers. I ended up doing the intern find-package dance because that way I kept it all in one toplevel form which is wrapped by a reader conditional 10:05:47 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.69] has joined #lisp 10:06:44 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192070.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 10:08:08 don't use intern and find-package, use find-symbol 10:09:04 ohnoitsavram: (funcall (find-symbol "INSTALL" :quicklisp-quickstart)) 10:09:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:09:40 -!- SanderM [~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:47 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 10:10:29 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.215.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:10:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:11:23 SanderM 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peer] 10:27:04 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:27:43 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2983BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:30:03 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:30:52 "the migration is going well" my ass 10:31:10 a "migration that goes well" is done before the users have noticed it. 10:32:11 -!- TML [~joey@166.70.214.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:32:19 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 10:32:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:33:58 TML [~joey@166.70.214.36] has joined #lisp 10:34:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:35:27 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-159-135.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:36:02 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:36:08 leoc [~leoc.git@p4FF79EE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:32 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11:25:44 spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 11:26:34 a well done migration is a migration nobody remebers. 11:26:49 notices, i'd say 11:26:51 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.212] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:26:55 H4ns: no, remembers 11:27:11 if the migration staff remembers, it means it was horrific but they pulled it off 11:27:11 aha? 11:27:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:28:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:28:52 nod 11:30:40 and if you still remeber a migration that didn't involve any running about like a screaming chicken, then it means all your previous migrations didn't go to well, and you have some work to do. 11:30:41 H4ns: I've read enough horrific accounts from migrations that involved heroic struggle just so no one *outside* notices 11:30:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 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[~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has joined #lisp 12:59:33 -!- youlysses_ZZZ [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: School time, fine and dine. o/] 13:00:46 milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has joined #lisp 13:01:37 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-87-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:59 -!- milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has quit [Client Quit] 13:02:21 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-87-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:02:36 -!- reckler [~reckler@ppp118-208-148-143.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:02:56 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:06:37 -!- groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 13:07:02 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 13:08:52 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:01 -!- weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:10:02 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:11:14 gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has joined #lisp 13:13:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:16:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:17:07 nyef [~nyef@c-76-119-183-159.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:24 redline6561: Ping? 13:17:31 nyef: pong 13:17:46 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:17:46 Tried your emulator last night. 13:18:02 After about the fifth attempt, I gave up. 13:18:24 Yeah. I'm planning to spend the weekend fixing bugs/overhauling a few things. 13:18:28 Turns out, most of the ROMs that I have available have DiskDude! headers or other trash. 13:18:42 heh 13:18:49 And the failure mode when trying a mapper 2 game is... not awesome. 13:18:51 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:19:04 ... what is the failure mode? 13:19:32 "The value NIL is not of type INTEGER." 13:20:07 I think it's trying to read the RESET vector. 13:20:40 It's certainly in (:METHOD INITIALIZE-INSTANCE :AFTER (|6502|:CPU)). 13:20:44 o_O and here I was hoping make-mapper would throw an error. the mappers are done with eql-specialized methods. 13:21:07 You have dummy implementations defined for mappers 2, 3, and 4. 13:21:11 Which are only defined for mapper IDs 0 and 1 at the moment. Default method is to error. 13:21:21 oh, crap. right. 13:21:49 *redline6561* is a tad embarrassed 13:22:19 nyef: I'll shoot you a message when I've got mario up and running. :) 13:22:29 -!- v__ [~v@27.102.204.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:23:02 So, the trick with the dirty iNES headers is that if the last four octets aren't zero, you need to ignore the second octet of mapper number and flags (treat it as zero). 13:23:28 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:24:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:25:08 huh. okay. and that's for roms made with DiskDude! or all "dirty" roms? 13:25:10 Trying the legend of zelda, I get a window on my screen (progress!), and an error "The bounding indices 0 and 4096 are bad for a sequence of length 0." 13:25:19 All "dirty" ROMs, so far as I'm aware. 13:25:37 Okay. Yeah, I tried Zelda. My target games atm are SMB for nrom and Mega Man 2 for MMC1. 13:26:21 Ooh. My copy of MEGAMAN2.NES has a clean header... 13:26:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:26:33 Well, neither run yet. :) 13:27:20 So romreader's parse-header raised a malformed-header condition for your dirty roms? 13:27:30 Mmm. A window filled with dark-gray. Joy. 13:28:07 Yeah, Malformed ROM Header or something like that. 13:29:06 I'm getting a few "STYLE-WARNING: bare references to struct types are deprecated." messages. 13:29:12 dirty roms! 13:29:27 That might be from lispbuilder-sdl guts, though. 13:29:35 nyef: those are from lispbuilder-sdl. some cffi changes haven't been updated yet. 13:29:49 not sure who is maintaining lispbuilder these days, actually. 13:30:16 *redline6561* digs up the iNES header docs 13:30:28 ... "^CSignal 2 masked" "fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 7484(tid 140...128): some blockable signals blocked, some unblocked" "Welcome to LDB". 13:31:34 whoa. how'd you wind up there? 13:32:02 Tried to close the window, and when that didn't work I hit C-c at the REPL. 13:32:02 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.140.15.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:32:40 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025029.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:32:40 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-196-165.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:33:02 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:33:57 Hmm. That's new to me. 13:34:44 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:34:52 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:35:00 Yeah, it's been a while since I've trashed an SBCL image that way. 13:35:33 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 13:39:27 v__ [~v@61.173.85.51] has joined #lisp 13:41:46 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 13:41:54 I was trying to subscribe to the boston-lisp mailing list. I'm just getting an 404 page. Do I have a bad URL? Or is this just part of the common-lisp.net troubles at the moment? 13:42:43 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:43:10 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:32 patrickwonders: the later 13:47:11 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:26 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:48:41 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:37 -!- dnolen [~user@212.23.236.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:42 halfway [~killian@ip-18-96.net.ksu.edu] has joined #lisp 13:52:50 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:53:10 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 13:55:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:56:02 hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 13:56:10 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:56:14 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:56:32 Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:59:20 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:01:42 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-6-168.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:01:45 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients] 14:02:04 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:03:51 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 14:04:33 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:39 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 14:04:39 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 14:04:39 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:08:16 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025029.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 14:08:19 luis` [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 14:08:26 arrdem [~arrdem@wireless-128-62-91-139.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 14:09:53 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2983BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10:22 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.37.169] has joined #lisp 14:10:49 oticat` [~oticat@1-164-214-134.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:51 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:11:22 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:34 -!- oticat` [~oticat@1-164-214-134.dynamic.hinet.net] has left #lisp 14:14:04 protist [~protist@125-237-130-19.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 14:14:48 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-145-246.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:05 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:30 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 14:17:20 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:17:33 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:43 Denommus [~user@201.75.85.87] has joined #lisp 14:18:49 how can I compile linedit? 14:19:12 every time I open sbcl, it compiles it again, so I want to precompile it 14:19:13 -!- zorkmoid [c2ed8e11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:19:48 fix how it uses asdf 14:21:48 are there any lock-free algorithm libraries out there for lisp? 14:24:02 Knirr [~Knirr@c-da4ae555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:24:10 foom: http://orthecreedence.github.io/cl-async/ 14:25:14 it's a beta, so it would be great if you could help them in case you find any problems 14:25:40 Sorry, I actually meant lock-free data-structures. 14:25:50 e.g. queue, hashtable, etc. 14:25:53 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-6-168.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:26:01 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:12 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:26:12 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 14:26:28 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 14:27:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:27:24 what exactly do you want to do? 14:27:52 sbcl has lock-free queues i think 14:27:59 *Xach* would guess: use lock-free data structures 14:28:34 as far as my imagination goes, I think you can have what you want by simply using lists, hash-tables and first-class funtions 14:28:45 jdz: so it does! That's convenient, at least. :p 14:29:13 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:29:21 foom: I don't think so. I have a couple hacks floating around... a multi-word compare and swap and a seqlock, at least. 14:29:21 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:03 and ccl has nearly lock-free hashtables 14:30:42 There's one git repo with a fork of the MCAS for lock-free B-trees (?), but i'm not sure it's usable yet. 14:31:09 I think I must get better in concurrency, I feel kind of dumb, my knowledge only reaches mutexes 14:31:56 Denommus: you should definitely investigate the lock free data structures, because the whole point of them is to not have mutexes :) 14:32:05 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:32:28 I hear there's an ACM Queue issue on that topic coming out soon 14:33:12 jdz: I think I use them in android, I just don't know how it works under the hood 14:33:36 Denommus: magick! 14:33:51 jdz: all I've seen from concurrency was the Tanenbaum's "Operating Systems: Design and Implementation" 14:34:17 which only covers until mutexes and monitors 14:34:37 no semaphores? 14:35:15 yes. Also semaphores 14:35:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:35:24 Denommus: Concurrency exists on multiple layers of abstraction 14:35:47 threads, mutices, semaphores, barriers etc. are just the basic building blocks 14:36:01 no, CAS (or whatever the alternative) is the building block 14:36:18 then you get your higher level things (mutexes, etc) 14:36:24 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2983BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:36:25 but I rather prefer higher abstractions on top of them such as Actors or Channels etc. 14:37:17 once I was in a C project in which we only had mutexes 14:37:22 jdz: If I'm not mistaken, CAS is the concept threads are built on, right? 14:37:29 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@114.243.229.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:37:38 NeverMined [~never@adsl-76-217-57-126.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:38 correct me if i'm wrong, but lock-free data structures are the ones that use the lowest level instructions (e.g., CAS) 14:37:59 Forgetaboutit: threads are fairly orthogonal to that 14:38:04 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:14 of course you're right, brain afk :D 14:38:19 I think we *could* have better abstractions, they just weren't worth the costof reinventing the wheel. It was an embedded application, we had only a sketch of an operating system under the hood, almost every resource was controlled by our application 14:38:29 I'm glad it worked as expected, at the end of the project 14:39:06 foom: anyway, for the MCAS... I think I got discouraged because it was much slower than taking appropriately-striped locks. 14:39:28 speaking of which, is CL viable for embedded applications? 14:39:40 (inb4: it depends) 14:41:04 gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:45 The basic building block it's built upon is the serialization of access to contended resources. 14:42:56 There are abunch of ways to do that. 14:45:12 Denommus: Depends on what sort of "embedded". Sometimes "embedded" systems run windows, for example. 14:45:13 denommus: Given that 'embedded' just means 'has a funny keyboard', I don't see why not. 14:46:34 nyef: I'm thinking more of something with a basic OS, or no OS at all 14:46:58 Why? 14:47:41 Denommus: So, a Windows 98 box? 14:47:45 I mean, seriously -- why waste all of that time and effort, when the cost of slapping linux on it is probably negligible in the first place. 14:47:48 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-145-246.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:48:33 A good rule of thumb might be based around the amount of RAM available and the existence or lack thereof of a paged MMU. 14:48:35 Nothing's stopping you from just running the one process in it, if that's what floats your boat. 14:48:52 nowadays I think always using Linux makes sense 14:50:22 I wouldn't want to try running Linux, or a full-on Common Lisp, on an Arduino, but I should have a Raspberry Pi in my hands in about two and a half weeks, and I want to try to get SBCL running on it. 14:50:32 but when I made this specific application, we had an ARM and low secondary memory (even lower primary memory). Linux's ARM support was still weak as hell (I think it is better nowadays). So we had a pretty poor OS under our application, and we controlled all the resources it would use, and also the checksums 14:50:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:50:59 Raspberry works just like a full blown linux workstation from the near dark ages -- it shouldn't have any problem at all. 14:51:04 Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.224] has joined #lisp 14:51:30 "from the near dark ages"? 14:51:32 How so? 14:51:39 I still didn't bought my raspberry 14:51:47 Well, from when terabytes were expensive. 14:52:04 And people still bought PCs. 14:52:35 -!- Forgetaboutit [~sammy@s15731961.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 14:52:39 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:52:44 And compiling the linux kernel took longer than a tea break. 14:53:01 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:53:03 Okay, so it's like a two-year-old netbook? 14:53:09 It's very usable, it just reminds me of the old days. 14:53:21 Hmm, a bit further back than that, I think. 14:53:23 Err... three-year-old netbook, sorry. 14:54:06 Compiling opencv on it took most of a day, I think. 14:56:12 does SBCL compile fine under an ARM? 14:56:19 raspberry pi's are fun to muck around with, but dog slow. 14:56:23 Denommus: no 14:56:43 I imagined 14:56:50 is there a CL for rpi yet? 14:57:04 ccl does. there's a partially completed arm sbcl port. 14:57:04 Denommus: clozure cl runs well 14:57:37 Probably very dumb question, is there a way to produce small executables with sbcl? What's the reasoning behind slapping the whole lisp image in one executable? 14:58:23 halfway: How small is small to you? The rationale behind including the whole thing is that nobody has done the work to let you say "Get rid of things I don't need/want" 14:58:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:59:17 I guess I kind of wanted to make some small command line utilities 14:59:44 halfway: why do you need them to be compiled? 14:59:55 #!/bin/sbcl not good enough? 15:00:03 halfway: you can put them all into one executable and use a scheme like busybox if you can't spare the extra space. 15:00:08 halfway: I do that, and my solution is to not care about how big the file is. 15:00:14 nyef: isn't it #/usr/bin/sbcl --script? 15:00:30 H4ns: and if that is an important thing to want to do, buildapp supports it directly! 15:00:36 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:00:37 *Xach* has never used that feature, though 15:00:52 I wouldn't know. I usually use #!/bin/sh and invoke SBCL from there. 15:01:24 In some cases, I invoke SBCL to load the script file itself, which is kindof twisted. 15:01:26 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 15:01:28 I didn't intend to ship it with the source, not that it wouldn't be open source 15:01:47 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-bnzyozhwclrfddys] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:23 I don't know if I'm weird, but I've never actually produced an executable to share with a pal like many seem to (want to) do. 15:02:25 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:02:29 I usually put #!/usr/bin/sbcl --script on top of my file, manually load $HOME/quicklisp/setup.lisp if needed, require the libraries, also if needed and make my script under it 15:02:47 for instance: https://gist.github.com/Denommus/5339087 15:02:48 *Xach* never uses --script and always produces a binary to do stuff like that 15:02:56 The executables compress very nicely, FWIW. SBCL can even do that for you. 15:03:26 Once 400 meg videos stopped being large I stopped worrying about things like binary image sizes. 15:03:28 I don't see a particular need on producing a binary if all I want is a simple script 15:03:42 Then write it as a script. 15:03:45 Denommus: I don't like the output from the loading process and the interactive lag. 15:03:48 and only I will run it 15:04:04 If it was quick & silent to load extra support libraries I think I would like it a lot more. 15:04:07 Xach: if you use require instead of ql:quickload it won't have any output 15:04:20 http://www.lisphacker.com/temp/crtc-lcd-test.lisp shows a number of fairly nasty hacks, one of which is for starting SBCL on a file that starts with #!/bin/sh. 15:04:25 That has not been my experience, but I'll revisit it sometime. 15:04:26 of course require only works with SBCL, but if I'm just doing a script I don't care about that 15:04:59 -!- NeverMined [~never@adsl-76-217-57-126.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:05:11 nyef: I saw that. I don't like it, I think my solution is cleaner 15:05:16 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-39-120.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 15:05:39 Denommus: I have another variation that reads lines until it reads one that says "exit", and then LOADs the rest. 15:05:56 Xach: I used buildapp to make an "sbcl-loaded" image, not for scripts but because loading my library of experiments was getting too slow 15:07:06 Just an image, not an executable? 15:07:29 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 15:07:42 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:07:54 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.127.74] has left #lisp 15:08:19 _veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:19 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:08:19 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 15:08:25 ah, executable would be more accurate. I mostly use the executable from slime (which is pre-loaded) 15:08:35 ahh 15:08:39 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:08:45 buildapp supports writing out a plain core file, but I've never used that either 15:08:57 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:09:23 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 15:10:06 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 15:10:16 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:35 If somebody wants to try this https://gist.github.com/bhyde/5355435 before I hand it off to Alexgor I'd be grateful. 15:11:17 bhyde: modern-mode incompatible 15:12:40 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-51-102.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:37 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-196-165.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:54 *bhyde* goes off to learn what modern mode is... 15:14:14 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-196-165.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:14:18 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-234.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:14:36 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:14:49 helllo http://paste.lisp.org/display/136606#1 15:14:50 halfway: you can put them all into one executable and use a scheme like busybox if you can't spare the extra space.ackages. 15:14:50 *nyef* doesn't care about "modern" mode. 15:15:01 oeh 15:15:10 bhyde: use #:uninterned-symbols instead of "CAPITALIZED-STRINGS" to refer to packages 15:15:49 -!- luis` is now known as luis 15:15:54 I use keywords to refer to packages, and capitalized strings to refer to symbols within said packages. It works out well for me. 15:16:10 bhyde: also, isn't it Alex Gorbatchev? 15:16:31 *madnificent* would like to see an evolution towards modern-mode 15:16:32 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:16:33 (not that I knew who he was) 15:16:36 hi luis :) 15:17:03 anyones got an idea why i would not get double newlines from C ? 15:17:20 felideon: yeah, it's alexgorbatchev.com, but your right 15:18:19 H4ns - has the debate about package denotation been settled and nobody sent me the memo? I've got my reasons, but I certainly have zero interest in that debate :). 15:18:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:18:37 rme [~rme@50.43.190.179] has joined #lisp 15:18:48 bhyde: there is no debate. 15:18:52 snort 15:20:45 There's no debate, there's the right way and there's modern mode. d-: 15:20:56 bhyde: are you going to the meeting/dinner tonight? 15:21:30 and if you're going to mess with readtable-case, you can't blame anyone else if things don't work as expected 15:21:36 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01223e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:21:37 anybody care to something that expounds on this "modern mode" meme? 15:21:51 zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has joined #lisp 15:21:52 bhyde: messed-up readtable-case by default 15:21:59 H4ns: I gues I'll have to look into that since I'm not sure what that entails 15:22:23 sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 15:22:39 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:22:48 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:22:55 halfway: if basically means the executable contains a bunch of utilities, you link/symlink many names to that big executable, and depending on which name is used to call it, it provides different functionality 15:23:05 anyone else using the latest asdf? my compiler startup increased more than 30 seconds, it started after i installed it. 15:23:38 nan_: I don't use the new asdf, but I think a lot of other people do, and I haven't heard about a regression like that before. 15:23:55 nan_: is it easy to make a case that others can reproduce? 15:24:28 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-39-120.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:24:41 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:09 Xach: after i installed latest asdf all the compilers i've tried have increased startup time, this includes sbcl ccl clisp ecl 15:25:17 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:25:52 other than that i don't know how can i make a case, i didn't change anything, just downloaded and followed the instructions on asdf manual 15:26:10 If you can't make a case, it might be hard for others to reproduce and troubleshoot. 15:26:40 So, just to clarify, the reason languages like C do not have this problem is because it glibc and related things are usually already on the system? 15:26:42 H4ns  hm readtable-case  hadn't ever considered that  makes my brain hurt  but I think i'm changing my mind  uninterned symbols might well be better  grumble 15:27:28 halfway: partly, yeah. another part is that CL programs expect to have a compiler and debugger available. 15:27:34 milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has joined #lisp 15:27:44 halfway: and it's kind of an exceptional situation to take things like that out. sort of. 15:28:49 Xach: do compilers say the 4 compilers i mentioned come with asdf installed? then it is understandable 15:29:24 Yuuhi [benni@p5DC61C1A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:37 Can't believe I didn't think of the compiler and debugger part, makes sense 15:29:39 since that means i am loading it 2 times 15:29:44 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 15:29:50 halfway: I think it would be great if my favorite CL environments could produce tiny executables that just worked everywhere and were automatic, but it seems to me like a lot of work, and I can live with how things are now. 15:30:07 Maybe a GSoC student can do it :) 15:31:32 I wish I had time to make something on GSoC 15:32:02 Xach: yes, i intend to join this evening boston lisp meeting & dinner after 15:32:17 apparently there is only the email announcement  so  http://sync.in/eUCDmIBFnF 15:33:49 joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:04 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:35:22 yay 15:38:22 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:42:32 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2983BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:43:32 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-asisljxickhijtmy] has joined #lisp 15:43:59 elia [~elia@93-50-99-219.ip152.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:44:51 davazp [~user@31.200.150.152] has joined #lisp 15:46:06 -!- SanderM [~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:09 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:49:48 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-phunlijdcdyutzgn] has joined #lisp 15:49:48 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-phunlijdcdyutzgn] has quit [Changing host] 15:49:48 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 15:50:31 AeroNotix [~xeno@abon37.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:50:55 -!- leoc [~leoc.git@p4FF79EE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:50:57 Forgetaboutit [~sammy@p4FFA77D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:17 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@wireless-128-62-91-139.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:53:28 something that I still don't understand very well about CL 15:54:10 Still! 15:54:29 how does it work as a interpreter? As a JIT? If it is a JIT, when it compiles, does it generate assembly for my arch? 15:54:48 Depends, quite a bit, on which implementation you use. 15:54:50 CL only exists in ether 15:55:07 Denommus, stop thinking about "interpreter" vs "compiler". Think about "semantics" 15:55:26 and its "implementation". 15:55:28 Denommus: in SBCL, it compiles what you write at the repl to machine code and then executes it. 15:55:42 There are some ways to make it interpret instead, but it requires a little extra work. 15:55:50 Xach: similarly to a JIT, then 15:55:55 tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:56:04 no 15:56:59 I'm asking this because somebody at ##programming want to run it on a MicroBlaze processor, so he wants it to be "interpreted" 15:57:14 he is planning to simply "crosscompile" some implementation made in C to his arch 15:57:33 -!- zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:57:59 I'm trying to explain to him that this is absurd, but since I don't understand how the different implementations translate code, I can't 15:58:12 shifting the discussion a bit, but does SBCL still have the compiler to byte codes  maybe that was in CMU lisp  implemented i nthe hope of getting very dense (if slow) code? 15:58:19 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abon37.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 15:58:23 bhyde: it doesn't 15:58:52 stassats`: tx 15:58:57 there's an option :compiled versus :interpreted.... 15:59:06 the standard mode is :compiled in sbcl afaik 16:00:28 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:01:23 *bhyde* has implemented (often) a simple-eval for delivery so the compiler can be shaken off, and in time that simple-eval also becomes a security feature 16:02:14 -!- sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [] 16:03:08 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:34 Denommus: CLISP and ECL have portable bytecode interpreters in C. 16:06:03 Gambit Scheme also has a good portable C implementation. 16:06:08 (not CL) 16:07:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:08:27 Fare: is it possible to hotpatch code at runtime in a threadsafe manner? 16:08:46 Forgetaboutit, depends on implementations. 16:08:58 and often depends on CLOS vs non-CLOS. 16:09:11 Do you know implementations where this works? 16:09:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:09:24 Fare: ECL has a bytecode interpreter? I thought it was strictly translate to C and invoke the compiler 16:09:30 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192132.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:35 jasom: used to 16:10:08 ehu` [~ehu@31.138.69.113] has joined #lisp 16:10:21 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.37.169] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 16:11:36 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:11:37 Fare: does it have a mode that is bytecode only that can run without a working C compiler? 16:12:05 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.33.38.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:12:53 jasom: The REPL seems to run without GCC just fine 16:14:56 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 16:15:28 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-173-79.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:14 >> (defun test (x) x) > TEST >> #'test > # 16:17:34 *jasom* was going to look into cross compiling, and the install guide gave him this useless link: http://ecls.sourceforge.net/install.html#cross 16:18:22 jasom: Good old ninja documentation ;) 16:21:26 -!- ehu` [~ehu@31.138.69.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:21:31 Something I also don't understand that's kind of related: Whne I used something like sockets or pthreads (which from what I gathered by reading the source of sbcl, basically calls pthreads or sockets with C) is that not interpereted? It sure seems like it 16:21:48 -!- milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:21:57 halfway: I don't even understand your question 16:22:37 halfway: sbcl compiles to native code; it can call C functions. What part is missing? 16:22:47 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:23:19 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:23:44 yeah, I was afraid of that. When I use threading in sbcl, it calls pthreads from c code in sbcl. It seems like that's interpreted 16:24:12 halfway: wat? why? 16:25:02 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192132.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:25:59 -!- joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:50 halfway: what you're saying doesn't make any sense 16:27:08 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 16:27:27 halfway: Compiled code (from CL) calls compiled code (from C), no interpretation here 16:27:46 I guess because it takes code and does something with it instead of compiling it to machine code. Sorry, don't know too much about compilers yet 16:28:06 Looking to take a course in it but the only one offered here is not offered to undergrads 16:29:03 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:42 ellusioner [ellusioner@c-0d1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:30:28 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-173-79.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:30:33 calling standard library functions is not related directly to compilation 16:30:34 My C code also calls into pthread from C code. What portion of my C code interpreted? 16:31:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:31:19 halfway: why do you worry about compilation vs. interpretation? nowadays, there is little concern about that. 16:31:47 pkhuong: clearly, you should use syscalls instead 16:32:28 halfway: classic "interpreted" languages are now using just-in-time compilation, classic "compiled" languages are run on virtual machines like the jvm, where they are interpreted. 16:32:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:33:04 H4ns: isn't even assembly interpreted by the CPU in some way ;) 16:33:24 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 16:33:33 Not a concern, I was just wondering how it worked 16:33:35 Forgetaboutit: it is called "machine code", but yes. 16:34:54 H4ns: you're right. I was just kidding, anyways :) 16:37:52 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 16:37:54 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.218] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:38:44 beyeran_ [~beyeran@p54A95AA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:39 rbancroft [~rumble@184.64.141.162] has joined #lisp 16:42:42 -!- beyeran [~beyeran@p54A958ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:44:01 i am making something with ltk...and i have about 40 buttons....and they go of the screen and do not seem to cause their frame to expand in the x direction at all 16:44:17 they stack vertically 16:45:17 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-fecee155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: exit(EXIT_FAILURE);] 16:46:54 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:47:56 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:48:15 -!- TML [~joey@166.70.214.36] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:48:22 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:48:34 TML [~joey@166.70.214.36] has joined #lisp 16:49:32 -!- asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:50:21 -!- TML [~joey@166.70.214.36] has quit [Changing host] 16:50:22 TML [~joey@unaffiliated/tml] has joined #lisp 16:50:24 -!- TML [~joey@unaffiliated/tml] has quit [Client Quit] 16:50:52 TML [~joey@unaffiliated/tml] has joined #lisp 16:53:43 -!- ck_ [~ck@dslb-094-219-145-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:53:58 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:54:17 talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:54:53 -!- elia [~elia@93-50-99-219.ip152.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:55:09 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 16:55:44 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:57:10 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:57:13 gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:58:47 protist: which geometry manager are you using 16:58:52 in slime-sbcl how can i start stepper WHEN a function called? i read about trace options but didn't help and step has no options. 16:59:18 -!- rbancroft [~rumble@184.64.141.162] has left #lisp 16:59:19 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:59:23 -!- gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:00:35 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-74-216.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:21 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1177937645.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:01:24 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:06:45 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:23 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-08b7e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Changing host] 17:08:23 SHODAN [~shozan@fsf/member/shodan] has joined #lisp 17:09:04 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 17:09:39 Yinne [~Knirr@c-da4ae555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:09:40 erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:10:00 or maybe i should ask differently as this is so fundamental to debugging it can't be something obscure, how can i make (step form) ignore everything until it reaches a function, like setting up a breakpoint in GDB 17:10:10 -!- Knirr [~Knirr@c-da4ae555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:10:39 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-74-216.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:10:50 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 17:11:59 Bike [~Glossina@65-100-34-200.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:13 jasom: pack...and i am new to ltk 17:14:03 list tk 17:14:09 it's just lisp ontop of tk 17:14:15 so learn tk first 17:16:14 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1215-184.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:16:42 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 17:16:54 nan_: Perhaps you want (BREAK), or one of the fancy options to TRACE? 17:18:09 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.161.47.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:18:42 gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:24 nyef: with trace i got many options i can just do (trace sym :break t) but i want single stepping instead of trace 17:19:24 nan_: yeah use `break' to set a marker to break at...then `run' 17:19:57 protist: grid is easier to learn; I use pack out of habit for many things though. 17:20:17 jasom: hmmm 17:20:28 protist: http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/TkCmd/pack.htm#M26 http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/TkCmd/grid.htm#M32 are the resepective references for how it works 17:20:29 jasom: do you know of a good guide to pack? 17:20:40 jasom: thank you :D 17:20:43 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 17:20:46 protist: that works for trace not for step afaik 17:20:54 Mmm... I usually don't bother with single stepping in Lisp, finding it far more useful when I'm working in assembler. 17:21:03 -!- davazp [~user@31.200.150.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:21:10 protist: the pack algorithm is really simple; it's just noninuitive 17:21:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:21:35 protist: so it's probably easier to just learn how it works, and then learn how to use it rather than the other way around 17:23:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:23:15 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.190.179] has left #lisp 17:23:25 protist: don't forget to read the "Geometry propagation" section there as well 17:23:50 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 17:24:48 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.222.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:25:36 protist: also, if you want to use the "listbox" widget, I can suggest you use my ltk-list; it's ugly and non-idiomatic since it was my first time doing anything where I modified setf or used clos but it will let you just set all hte contents of the list widget by simply SETFing a single object 17:25:59 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:26:52 of course listbox is deprecated in favor of treeview, since treeview actually lets you do things like find out which item(s) are selected 17:28:08 oh, and if you are runing into issues when you have more than 26 widgets; someone introduced a bug a year or two ago that I'm not sure has been fixed in quicklisp 17:28:14 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:28:32 kaushik143 [kaushik@101.63.84.204] has joined #lisp 17:28:46 hi 17:29:47 -!- kaushik143 [kaushik@101.63.84.204] has left #lisp 17:32:14 yeah; it's still in there; it was IMO a premature optimization that introduced a really annoying bug 17:33:21 jasom: i have like 50 buttons and only 34 are on the screen...they just continue off the screen :( 17:33:36 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 17:33:37 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Changing host] 17:33:37 sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 17:34:01 jasom: i put a frame packed on the right and then just packed a bunch of buttons with it as master 17:34:39 protist: M-. to the definition of create-path and change the "w" to "zz" 17:34:40 jasom: i don't know how to make the frame try too be 3 buttons wide or something....or make it smart about reshaping based on screen size 17:34:57 jasom: M- ? 17:34:57 protist: that will save you time down the road 17:35:26 protist: it's a slime command; hold the Alt key and press the period key 17:35:30 breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 17:35:39 protist: jumps to the definition 17:35:45 i don't have slime all set up right now 17:35:48 i use vim 17:36:11 okay than vi ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/ltk-0.98/ltk.lisp 17:36:20 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:36:34 then :1276 17:36:59 (format nil "w~A" ...) change that to (format nil "zz~A") 17:37:14 what does that do? 17:37:16 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 17:37:30 protist: fixes a bug when you make a lot of widgets 17:37:44 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:38:08 I don't remember the exact number, and the mailing list was on cl.net so I can't check easily 17:38:16 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:20 well thank you :) 17:39:16 how do i make a fram more than one button wide? 17:39:21 frame* 17:39:27 -!- Forgetaboutit [~sammy@p4FFA77D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 17:39:39 protist: using pack, that's the wrong question; using grid that's pretty easy 17:39:50 ah 17:40:14 in gride if i have 50 anonymous buttons can i get it it stuff then all in columns? 17:40:23 jenia_ [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:40:29 protist: yes 17:41:02 hello everyone. im trying to get the kth element of a list 17:41:03 http://pastebin.com/Pq8MV8u0 17:41:11 protist: with pack the easiest way is probably to make a frame for each row, and set the frame to :fill x 17:41:13 but i get a runtime error: 17:41:20 also...the text thing....i don't see a way to get current cursor position...and i don't see why it seems to think the whole text is proceeded by a newline 17:41:37 CL-USER> (element-at '(a b c d ) 1) 17:41:37 Execution of a form compiled with errors. 17:41:37 Form: 17:41:37 ((IF (= H K) 17:41:37 (CAR X) 17:41:38 (ELEMENT-AT (CDR X) K (+ 1 H)))) 17:41:39 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 17:41:40 Compile-time error: 17:41:42 illegal function call 17:41:44 [Condition of type SB-INT:COMPILED-PROGRAM-ERROR] 17:41:48 ; Evaluation aborted on NIL 17:41:50 sorry. 17:41:52 jenia_: ? 17:42:03 jenia_: clhs nth 17:42:04 i mechanically pated it here 17:42:30 jenia_: also extra opening paren --> ((if 17:42:40 oh yea thanks 17:42:53 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-233-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:59 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:43:01 jasom: if i have a (let (ta (make-instance 'text)) .....then it seems (text ta) will always add a newline before it....idk why 17:43:24 jenia_: as it says, (if ...) isn't a valid function name. 17:43:24 Bike_, memo from pkhuong: allocation sequences can't be interrupted (because the GC gets confused). Instead, we set a bit in the thread struct. [RE]BP is used to clear that bit because it's always aligned. 17:43:31 protist: 1 sec, let me pull up the last thing I used 'text on 17:43:50 jasom: and if i assigned to ta like (setf (text ta) new-value)....it will move everything to the second line or something...odd indeed 17:43:55 jasom: kk thank you 17:44:11 jenia_: in other words, remove the extraneous parens. 17:44:34 Ooh. Did I see a reference to PSEUDO-ATOMIC? 17:45:00 thanks Bike_ jasom 17:45:05 nyef: if you mean pkhuong's memo, i was asking about an sbcl disassembly in #sbcl 17:45:06 nyef: ooh, indeed (: 17:45:12 and * 17:45:15 mjb9Mike [~mjb@cpe-173-175-254-25.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:23 -!- mjb9Mike [~mjb@cpe-173-175-254-25.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:45:24 jasom: brb snack....be sure to refer to me by name so i will see your message :D 17:45:25 Ah. 17:45:26 minion doesn't care about channels 17:45:35 -!- v__ [~v@61.173.85.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:45:39 mjb9Mike [~mjb@cpe-173-175-254-25.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:08 -!- Bike [~Glossina@65-100-34-200.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:46:38 the unconquerable robot secretary, hunting me down wherever i may be 17:46:38 protist: I'm not seeing that; (text foo) is giving me the text without a leading newline; it does seem to append a trailing newline though... 17:46:40 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 17:46:50 AeroNotix [~xeno@abon37.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:50:56 back 17:50:58 jasom: hmmm 17:51:33 hmm; I may fork ltk. Looking at my last app I wrote in it, 20% of the non-trivial widgets I create use utility functions I wrote for my own sanity 17:51:54 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:55 jasom: OH...i am adding something to the begginning...that could be why we see different changes 17:52:10 beginning* 17:52:20 jasom: it does seem to be paculiar 17:52:33 jasom: call it jtk 17:52:39 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:02 protist: for example I don't use (setf (text)) since it's buggy 17:53:17 uhg :/ 17:53:24 my program RELIES on that working well 17:53:30 My current implementation of P-A on ARM is dreadfully clever. I have a symbol, *PSEUDO-ATOMIC-INTERRUPTED*, which is either NIL or #x3c0004, which is the breakpoint trap syscall number as a FIXNUM. Compare to NIL, conditional shift to unbox, conditional SWI, and the runtime knows that SWI :LT is a p-a trap. 17:53:32 and i need a way to get cursor position 17:53:32 protist: try (setf (text weidget) "}") 17:53:34 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@59.40.37.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:53:58 protist: cursor position is pretty easy 17:54:01 nyef: what. That's awesome/too clever (: 17:54:55 jasom: i am trying to do things like (setf (text thing) (concatenate 'string (string #\) (text thing))) 17:55:13 Mmm. I kindof got screwed by the ABI changes, when they switched from encoding the syscall number in the trap instruction to using R7. 17:55:37 jasom: i want to prepend symbols at the cursor position and shift the cursor behind the newl inserted character 17:55:48 newly* 17:55:53 cddr [user@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:b02b] has joined #lisp 17:55:56 Plus the lack of decently-wide immediate values, plus the lack of registers... 17:56:02 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:56:17 And, at this point, the lack of a working ARM Linux system. 17:56:23 nyef: lack of registers? 17:56:26 *nyef* glares at his Android tablet. 17:57:04 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 17:57:06 I've heard there's a boston lisp meetup tonight. Anyone know where/when it is? http://lists.common-lisp.net/pipermail/boston-lisp/2013-April/000329.html is returning a 404 17:57:56 Yeah, some of the registers have a fixed use, and then I went with a partitioned register set so that I could have precise GC... 17:58:13 jasom: LMFAO missing closed brace? 17:58:17 oh, yeah, that hurts. 17:58:18 jasom: is it serious?! 17:58:22 cddr: Xach would know. 17:58:29 v__ [~v@27.102.204.94] has joined #lisp 17:58:43 cddr: MIT, Stata center, star conference room, 6:30, arrive early because the doors lock at 6:00, IIRC. 17:58:59 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-102-69.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:59:02 ok cool thanks 18:00:11 milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has joined #lisp 18:00:53 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:03:09 pkhuong: and thanks for the explanation. 18:03:33 what an idiot i am... moved emacs from vim and the first thing i did was disabling menubar as i love it using fullscreen but because i am a newbie for all things emacs+lisp i keep googling or asking many obvious questions that is right there in menubar 18:03:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:03:45 nyef: might as well have one for constructing immediates as well ;) 18:03:46 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 18:04:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.225.146] has joined #lisp 18:04:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.225.146] has quit [Changing host] 18:04:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:04:54 protist: (format-wish "~a replace cursor cursor {~A~}" (widget-path the-widget) (tcl-escape string)) 18:05:06 protist: er that's wrong 18:05:13 protist: (format-wish "~a replace cursor cursor {~A}" (widget-path the-widget) (tcl-escape string)) 18:05:28 protist: if you know your string contains no curly-braces you don't need to escape 18:06:15 i will probably have them 18:06:26 nyef: they do? i'm glad i'm traveling with alex, then 18:06:31 I have "system regs" NULL, CFP, CSP, LR, PC, and CODE; "descriptor regs" R0, R1, R2, LEXENV, and R8; and "non-descriptor regs" OCFP, NFP, NARGS, NL2, and NL3. And pretty much all of them are involved in function calling. 18:08:17 jasom: i am confused by exactly what that code is doing 18:08:34 protist: well I got it wrong anyway s/cursor/insert/g 18:08:38 nyef: did you make any further progress on the arm port? 18:08:51 jasom: you should make your branch :D 18:09:00 jasom: i mean fork 18:09:07 nyef: right, split stack to boot. I sometimes wonder how we could instead have parallel FP/NFP, say with segments of 2 pages (1 page boxed, 1 page nboxed). 18:09:14 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:09:38 protist: replace tells tk to replace the text from start to end; for start and end we are telling it to use the position of the insertion cursor 18:10:01 (and the name of the insertion cursor mark is "insert" not "cursor" I was doing it from fuzzy memory 18:10:21 stassats`: Not since... about January. And since then my arm chroot got massively damaged. As in, "everything is in the lost+found/ directory after fsck" damaged. 18:10:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-225.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:10:34 jasom: can you rewrite it with all the revisions done? 18:10:51 jasom: i am still thinking over what it does...not sure i could fix a typo 18:11:27 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:48 protist: (format-wish "~a replace insert insert {~A}" (widget-path the-widget) (tcl-escape string)) 18:11:53 protist: and you'll need tcl-escape 18:12:00 stassats`: So it's still sitting at the point where I need to make call_into_c work. And I'm trying to get a working arm chroot, and I should have my hands on a Raspberry Pi in about two and a half weeks. 18:12:21 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 18:12:32 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:12:59 i see 18:13:39 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:14:00 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:14:31 elia [~elia@2-238-29-218.ip242.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:14:50 jasom: so the-widget is the name of my 'text object....and string is where i put the string i want to prepend? 18:15:12 jasom: sorry it is really late...and i don't know tk :( 18:15:12 nyef: i should have brought my surplus pi, too, i see 18:15:21 protist: https://gist.github.com/jasom/5357083 18:15:45 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:50 protist: none of the builtin ltk stuff escapes strings passed to it 18:17:06 gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:48 Xach: Eh, mine is waiting for me at home, I'm just not going to be home until close to the end of the month. 18:18:08 protist: and it uses double-quotes instead of braces, which is flat out failing tcl 101 18:18:14 And motivation for working on the ARM port waxes and wanes. 18:18:18 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:18:47 jasom: hmmm 18:19:42 protist: just search ltk.lisp for \"~a\"; pretty much every match is a bug 18:19:49 hi again 18:19:51 jasom: so that format wish thing is going to do some magic to make it insert things before my cursor and move my cursor back as well? 18:20:12 protist: oh, it doesn't move the cursor back; the cursor will be at the end of the inserted text IIRC 18:20:14 as well as fix brackets 18:20:23 ah 18:20:32 moving the cursor back is doable as well 18:20:37 how do i move the cursor before what was prepended? 18:20:49 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has left #lisp 18:21:09 jasom: sec imma test this out so far 18:21:26 again, ltk has a way to *get* the cursor position but totally failed to provide a (setf) for it *sigh* 18:22:55 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:23:27 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 18:23:38 enymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has joined #lisp 18:23:51 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.218] has joined #lisp 18:26:03 jasom: split-sequence 18:26:14 jasom: it says split-sequence is undefined :( 18:26:21 protist: (ql:quickload :split-sequence) 18:26:36 protist: then you can :use it in your package 18:26:52 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:27:04 *jasom* forgets sometims that's not part of the standard library 18:28:03 jasom: i may be using this wrong...i have the things getting appended 18:28:10 jasom: i will pastebin what i have 18:28:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-225.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:28:24 jasom: it isn't too long and prob easier to paste 18:28:28 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:46 gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:11 jasom: https://ideone.com/54PQJ6 18:31:05 -!- elia [~elia@2-238-29-218.ip242.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:31:35 quit 18:31:37 -!- beyeran_ [~beyeran@p54A95AA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:32:09 -!- tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:33:23 protist: updated my gist; now looking at yours 18:33:26 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:33:26 -!- gendl_ is now known as gendl 18:34:15 protist: note I have changed my tcl-escape to not put the braces around it; I'll change back real quick 18:34:27 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:35:20 jasom: thank you i am looking :) 18:36:07 protist: I originally changed it to without the braces to see if that would make (setf (text)) work better, but zomg they used double-quotes instead of braces 18:36:17 and double quotes are a pain to escape 18:37:36 -!- crus0e [~crus0e@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: crus0e] 18:37:50 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002bef.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:07 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:41:32 jasom: beautiful :D 18:42:13 -!- v__ [~v@27.102.204.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:42:17 jasom: please make this fork :)....and make some documents :) 18:42:47 protist: (setf (text widget) "} [exec gvim] {") 18:43:14 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.218] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:43:34 -!- jenia_ [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:00 protist: not really a security issue since users sitting at your machine can run arbitrary programs anyway; but I suppose if you e.g. opened an untrusted document and tried to put it in a text widget there could be implications 18:44:18 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:30 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.218] has joined #lisp 18:44:39 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:11 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 18:45:43 -!- Yinne [~Knirr@c-da4ae555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:46:08 Knirr [~Knirr@c-da4ae555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:46:26 jasom: my buttons and gui don't work when i do that 18:46:36 jasom: the buttons disappear and then i have two windows 18:46:45 jasom: wait ill paste code so you can try/see 18:46:55 protist: which "do that" 18:47:18 the (setf (text widget) "} [exec gvim] {" ? 18:47:33 that will mess things up, but it will quite kindly launch a gvim for you 18:47:50 jasom: https://ideone.com/RBYyMr 18:47:56 jasom: that that gvim thing 18:48:11 jasom: i thought you were going to pull in vim commands or something 18:48:12 gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:18 yeah that* 18:48:31 pjb [~user@AMontsouris-651-1-192-178.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:49:13 protist: I was wrong, about them never using curly braces; they used it for (setf (text)) [but forgot to quote it] if they used double-quotes instead of curly braces, I could have run a program without messing up the text 18:49:22 but they didn't so I have to pass in more args 18:50:13 -!- Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:51:48 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:51:48 -!- gendl_ is now known as gendl 18:51:56 *sigh* my quote example is off for bare backslashes 18:52:00 a variation on these http://www.collegeforcreativestudies.edu/campus-life/social-dashboard for lisp would be awesome 18:52:07 jasom: could you help me pack my buttons :D? https://ideone.com/pj3E9K 18:52:34 protist: use grid 18:52:51 hmmm 18:52:52 protist: put the buttons in a frame and use grid in that frame 18:53:30 they are in a frame 18:53:34 button-frame 18:53:43 right, so just use grid within that 18:53:50 how do i grid it?...and how do i keep them from running of the screen? 18:54:39 jasom: :sticky :nw ? after i make it wider? 18:54:42 :/ 18:55:46 protist: replace (pack $_) with (grid $_) and you will now have them all in a single row (so no improvement yet) 18:56:21 ok :) 18:56:59 nevermind, ltk's grid is stupid 18:57:08 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 18:57:16 :( 18:57:27 you need to explicitly pass the row and column for each call to (grid) 18:57:42 despite the fact that they are both optional in tk 18:57:44 *sigh* 18:58:22 (format wish "grid ~a" (widget-path $_)) 18:59:23 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:59:40 that will add the widget to a new row 18:59:58 sjolsen [~stuart_ol@147.26.87.13] has joined #lisp 19:00:07 ok :)...they are still in one row right now 19:00:22 (format wish "grid configure ~{~A~}" (mapcar #'widget-path widgets)) will add a row with a list of widgets 19:01:10 but i don't want them all in one row? 19:01:19 i am confused 19:01:22 protist: each time you call it it will make a new row 19:01:30 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 19:01:49 i am not sure where to put it :/ 19:02:15 The call to #_mmap inside source/mmap.lisp 19:02:22 protist: instead of (pack $_) 19:02:30 Sorry wrong window... 19:02:36 protist: alternatively you can (grid $_ row col) to put each widget in a row and column explicitly 19:03:09 but then i have to keep track of row and column....i just thought i could set deminsions or something 19:03:36 ah 19:04:14 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:04:48 so instead of the ($each COLLECT BUTTONS (pack $_)) ....i would have (format wish "grid configure ~{~A~}" (mapcar #'widget-path COLLECT BUTTONS)) ? 19:05:00 jasom: ^ ? 19:05:13 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 19:05:24 protist: well, that will put them all in one row I think 19:05:25 how many Common Lisps did GNU do? 19:05:34 GCL, CLISP, is there another one? 19:05:35 what is GNU? 19:05:40 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:57 jasom: :( 19:06:08 GNU ECL? 19:06:20 Denommus: neither of this is made by "GNU" 19:06:28 cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD2131.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:50 Maybe I lied about that.. 19:06:52 stassats`: yes, I used the wrong term, but both of them are GNU 19:07:43 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 19:08:52 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:09:04 -!- milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:09:20 jasom: I am going to get some sleep...thank you soo much :) 19:09:25 Natch [~Natch@c-fecee155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:09:27 jasom: i may have to learn some tcl :) 19:09:33 jasom: or tk?...or are they different? 19:10:14 protist: tcl is a language, tk is a framework 19:11:31 kk :) 19:11:37 cya #lisp 19:12:17 -!- rk[moon] is now known as rk[clouds] 19:12:32 Tullius [~alemnaru@46.19.140.5] has joined #lisp 19:12:35 -!- Tullius [~alemnaru@46.19.140.5] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:13:37 snearch [~snearch@brln-4db93507.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:38 ffilozov [2eedc883@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.237.200.131] has joined #lisp 19:13:57 Tullius [~alemnaru@46.19.140.5] has joined #lisp 19:13:59 -!- Tullius [~alemnaru@46.19.140.5] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:14:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:15:42 Tullius [~alemnaru@46.19.140.5] has joined #lisp 19:15:45 -!- Tullius [~alemnaru@46.19.140.5] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:16:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:16:05 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 19:16:13 Vicfred [~Futaba@187.206.84.119] has joined #lisp 19:19:02 jenia_ [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:19:16 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01223e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:43 -!- enymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:19:56 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:20:18 -!- sjolsen [~stuart_ol@147.26.87.13] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.1] 19:21:11 hello everyone 19:21:12 http://pastebin.com/AYVkyaan 19:21:27 im trying to access the nth element from a list, from the back 19:21:38 (a b c d) 2 would be b 19:21:50 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.224] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:21:50 (a b c d) 1 would be c 19:21:57 Reverse the list and then use getf? 19:22:11 i want to practice recursion 19:22:30 if you may tell me what i wrong with my code 19:22:36 Shinmera: getf? 19:22:43 nth 19:22:49 I derped. 19:22:56 you what? 19:23:05 bioevolgenec [~bioevolge@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has joined #lisp 19:23:28 I mistook the names 19:23:30 for some reason 19:23:45 I should probably get some sleep. 19:23:50 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 19:24:32 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192132.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:33 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.53.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:48 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abon37.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 19:28:07 AeroNotix [~xeno@abon37.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:28:20 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:29:33 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abon37.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 19:29:36 anyone help me please. check out this function http://pastebin.com/AYVkyaan 19:29:46 i get an error for some reason can you tell me why? 19:29:49 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 19:29:58 AeroNotix [~xeno@abon37.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:30:23 jenia_: To start with, = works on numbers, not lists. 19:32:35 The bigger problem will be... how do you know if the recursive call return value is the actual return value, or the counter from the end? 19:32:45 yea 19:32:52 thats what im thinking about now 19:32:54 haha 19:32:56 thanks 19:33:00 Also, unless you defiend a function 1, (1) is an error, and you just want 1 (but you probably want 0) 19:33:10 thanks mjb9Mike and Bike 19:33:17 yea i changed that 19:33:22 thanks 19:34:05 jenia_, when you get an error, do you try to read and understand them 19:34:19 of course 19:34:20 unlike uninformative errors in C, errors in Lisp are usually informative 19:34:23 jenia_: maybe it's better use Slime (which has even an useful debugger) for Emacs to "find" the errors/warnings in the code 19:34:25 jenia_: http://pastebin.com/tcjJJCvx 19:35:36 thanks everyone 19:35:39 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192132.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:36:28 The error messages such.. telling me (element-at-r '(a b c d) 2) 19:36:28 The value (B C D) is not of type NUMBER... sucks, it should say, in function element-at-r, operator = was expecting a number, not a list (was: (B C D)). 19:36:34 enymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has joined #lisp 19:36:39 -!- Guest41789 [~lukas@194.228.13.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:36:49 I really do not like lisp error messages.. the backtrace is much more useful. 19:37:00 mjb9Mike: yes. take an implementation and patch it with better error messages. 19:37:27 Hay... why not. I have a few few free minutes... 19:37:33 -!- ffilozov [2eedc883@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.237.200.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:37:57 It's not a trivial problem, but quite an interesting one actually. 19:38:11 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192132.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:55 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:39:49 ffilozov [2eedc883@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.237.200.131] has joined #lisp 19:40:48 (labels ((count-back (list) .... eg. define a second internal function, and do a return from the outer/main function when you find the answer... so you don't have to keep track of if the return value is count from the end or the final value. It works. 19:41:52 It uses O(n) stack space. 19:42:50 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0b09c8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:58 pjb: patching with better error message is interesting because of regards AIT or what? 19:43:03 -!- protist [~protist@125-237-130-19.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:43:37 pnpuff: yes, it's not trivial to elaborate meaningful error messages (or other meaningful comments about code in general). 19:43:50 I mean O(length(list)). One could use a buffer of n elements to get the nth before the end. 19:44:21 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 19:46:18 -!- ffilozov [2eedc883@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.237.200.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:46:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:47:31 Can anyone suggest a gui toolkit/library to use with Lisp? 19:47:58 mcclim 19:48:10 Shinmera: SVG. 19:48:12 climacs 19:48:14 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 19:48:18 or just sdl 19:48:43 Hmm, I'll take a look, thanks. 19:48:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:49:02 -!- snearch [~snearch@brln-4db93507.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:49:12 ltk is another one, but all gui's suck some way or other.... 19:49:37 On the note of toolkits, I've been ogling Qt a bunch of times for use in other languages. Anyone got experience with it? 19:50:26 qt is nice but getting it up is some hassle too via commonqt 19:51:59 otherwise resort to xlib via clx make your own wrappers/widgeting around/with it..... 19:53:25 just make mcclim better :) 19:53:40 naeg_ [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has joined #lisp 19:53:41 Does anyone use Weblocks? (for web pages) 19:53:42 jup, that would be another option.... 19:53:55 wbooze: why not write an article titled "epistemology of a gui" ... :) 19:54:43 i'd need 10 people around me ....... 19:54:49 just for the start ....lol 19:54:51 ;) 19:55:11 -!- naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:55:46 I'd love to try mcclim but I've failed trying to get it up and running on osx... 19:56:03 okay why would a .asd file do a (def-package #:ltk-asd (:use :cl :asdf)) then (in-package #:ltk-asd)? 19:56:11 wg1024 [~wg1024@HSI-KBW-085-216-118-001.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:19 html5/css 19:56:27 One can define asdf code (methods, extensions, etc). 19:56:29 jasom ? 19:56:48 pjb: all it does is defsystem... 19:57:05 jasom: it used to be recommended practice somewhere. 19:57:12 or maybe one person did it and it was widely copied. 19:57:14 *Xach* does not remember 19:57:33 defsystem is old 19:57:51 wbooze: Irrelevant 19:57:52 but still used as i see 19:58:14 By almost every library you are likely to want to use. 19:58:53 yet i see it even used together with asdf ..... 19:59:24 milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has joined #lisp 19:59:40 wbooze: ASDF implements defsystem. 19:59:41 so it's not strictly necessary not ? 19:59:50 aaah 20:00:07 i thought asdf would do it from scratch.... 20:00:25 and wondered why both were used.... 20:00:34 That it defines a function named defsystem does not mean it is a copy of some older project that also defined something called defsystem. 20:00:46 ok 20:01:11 mc40 [~mc40@host86-148-31-142.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:02:41 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 20:03:33 can soomeone please check this out 20:03:36 im stuck again 20:03:37 http://pastebin.com/jBSPe1iV 20:04:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:04:14 -!- cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD2131.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:04:39 -!- naeg_ [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 20:04:43 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:05:01 jenia_: if you want to do it with a single function, either you need to add parameter, or you need to return multiple values. 20:05:13 naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has joined #lisp 20:05:25 (values (car x) :result) or (values (1+ counter) :counter) 20:05:58 (multiple-value-bind (result what) (recursive call) (case result (:counter ) (:result (values result what)))) 20:06:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:06:16 okay let me digest this for a little 20:06:19 thanks pjb 20:06:25 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:47 <``Erik> some bits missing from that, but I think you're trying to execute (+ '(c d) 1) 20:07:59 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.114] has joined #lisp 20:08:31 Argument X is not a NUMBER: C... because you thought it was the distance from the end and tried to add one? ... did you do a "backtrace" 20:08:41 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p549C45ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:41 values and multiple-value-bind would allow you to return 2 values, one being the distance from the end, and the other being the final answer. 20:09:41 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:10:47 Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has joined #lisp 20:11:05 how do you want the indexing ? 20:11:05 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-238-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:11:07 0 based ? 20:11:25 -!- Vicfred [~Futaba@187.206.84.119] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:13:34 Theres a dynamic variable in ECL called clos::*optimize-slot-access* that has the value T when you start ECL - I can't find it in the C code or the CL code - does anyone know where it's defined? 20:14:05 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:59 does the section about fill-pointers in cltl2 part of the standard? that you can access (with aref) inactive regions, it is rather sweet 20:15:44 hyperspec fill-pointer and make-array doc doesn't say much on this 20:16:30 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:40 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:16:41 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:17:22 valeryz [~user@90-65-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:45 Never mind, I just found it in the C code /src/c/symbols_list.h - I need to search for upcase symbols as well. 20:19:12 drmeister: have you used "the ECL manual" th find that header? 20:20:40 pnpuff: I've read through the ECL manual a couple of times but I didn't look through it again for this symbol. I go to the source code these days. 20:20:52 now I'm looking at the manual and I hope I can find some useful information... 20:21:35 Czechton [~Czechton@cpc8-lewi14-2-0-cust162.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:21:41 Does the manual say anything about clos:*optimize-slot-access*? 20:22:02 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192132.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 20:23:12 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:43 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:16 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:40 drmeister: I'm looking not for a "particular" solution... I hope to find a "general" solution... anyway, what have you done to "find *otimize-slot-access* in the C code"? 20:25:43 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: casion] 20:26:32 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192132.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:24 -!- mjb9Mike [~mjb@cpe-173-175-254-25.tx.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 20:29:29 -!- wg1024 [~wg1024@HSI-KBW-085-216-118-001.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:32:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:33:40 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:33:42 wg1024 [~wg1024@HSI-KBW-085-216-118-001.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 20:34:22 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:39 mjb9Mike [~mjb@cpe-173-175-254-25.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:34:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:34:54 antgreen [~green@209.118.250.254] has joined #lisp 20:38:04 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:38:32 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192132.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 20:40:20 -!- jenia_ [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:40:35 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-161-119.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:44:11 -!- Denommus [~user@201.75.85.87] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:44:58 -!- _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: !1!!] 20:45:28 MoALTz [~no@host86-142-161-119.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:45:39 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:46:05 pnpuff: To find it in the code I use: ecl> find . -name '*.xxx" -exec grep -i "optimize.slot.access" {} \; -print Where xxx is "h", "d" "c" and "lsp" in turn. I forgot the grep -i for the first 15 min that I was looking for it. 20:48:54 yuri` [~user@201.75.85.87] has joined #lisp 20:49:04 -!- yuri` is now known as Denommus 20:50:10 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abog211.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:51:00 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:52:31 when is the package resolved for ~/function/ format specifiers? At runtime? 20:52:53 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abon37.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:53:45 jasom: i seem to recall that the package is always dl-user 20:53:51 cl-user 20:54:17 bhyde: ah you're right 20:54:23 *jasom* missed that first time reading through 20:55:05 yup : "If name does not contain a ":" or "::", then the whole name string is looked up in the COMMON-LISP-USER package." 20:55:26 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 20:56:04 i also recall that there is no way to decline to consume the argument 20:56:23 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:46 Can you conditionally un-consume the argument? 20:57:34 Or even un-conditionally? 20:58:25 -!- sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [] 20:58:33 Anyway, getting out of here, to make sure that I'm sufficiently early tonight. 20:58:36 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-76-119-183-159.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 21:00:08 you can not do a variation on "~{~S~^, ~}" like "~{~S~^~/insert-comma/~}" 21:00:32 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:01:50 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:02:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:03:51 crus0e [~crus0e@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 21:04:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:04:41 Henesy [~h3n3sy@adsl-75-17-76-112.dsl.peoril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:42 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:04:50 -!- enymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:29 enymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has joined #lisp 21:08:26 nan_: you can indeed access beyond the fill-pointer. 21:08:53 -!- halfway [~killian@ip-18-96.net.ksu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:09:15 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 21:09:23 the fill-pointer is only used by a small number of functions: LENGTH, VECTOR-PUSH{,-EXTEND}, FILL-POINTER. 21:09:32 pjb: yes i tried and it works here as well but part of the standard? 21:09:45 Now, of course, LENGTH is used by a lot more of interesting functions, so indirectly, fill-pointer is used to. 21:09:52 But not by AREF, SVREF, etc. 21:10:08 clhs aref 21:10:08 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_aref.htm 21:10:16 and search for "fill-pointer" ;-) 21:11:03 -!- milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:11:09 yep exactly the phrase i was after right there :) 21:11:24 pjb: *cheers 21:11:32 FYI - this evening's Boston Lisp Meeting and dinner - http://sync.in/eUCDmIBFnF 6:30pm at MIT 21:13:25 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:14:53 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 21:15:44 -!- clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 21:16:48 -!- wg1024 [~wg1024@HSI-KBW-085-216-118-001.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:17:55 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:19:17 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:21:13 jasom: that's an interesting question anyways. Since FORMAT may have a compiler macro that expands into a form using FORMATTER, and since this later may signal errors at macro-expansion time or at run-time, I would expect some implementations to resolve the symbol at compilation time, perhaps even the function, while other may wait for run-time. 22.3.5.4 is totally silent about that. Therefore, conforming program should provid 21:21:13 symbol, and perhaps even the function (declaration) at compilation time, and ensure the same fbinding still exists at run-time. 21:23:07 davazp [~user@92.251.221.205.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 21:23:33 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 21:23:36 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Changing host] 21:23:36 sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 21:23:38 minion: memo for nyef: you can consume or unconsume arguments with ~* or ~:*. ~n@* is quite interesting too. 21:23:38 Remembered. I'll tell nyef when he/she/it next speaks. 21:27:48 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abog211.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 21:29:11 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:29:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:30:13 -!- spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:31:43 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:32:25 groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #lisp 21:32:31 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:33:30 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 21:35:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:37:03 hugoduncan [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279585040.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:37:53 -!- hugod 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timeout: 256 seconds] 21:52:31 -!- mjb9Mike_ [adaffe19@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.175.254.25] has quit [Client Quit] 21:53:13 josemanuel [~josemanue@185.163.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:53:30 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p549C45ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:54:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:32 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01223e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:00:35 -!- bioevolgenec [~bioevolge@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has left #lisp 22:01:04 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@185.163.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 22:01:10 -!- mc40 [~mc40@host86-148-31-142.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: mc40] 22:02:36 ISF [~ivan@189.61.222.251] has joined #lisp 22:02:38 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:03 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:04:35 what's the currently favored way to execute external subprocesses in a portable-ish manner? 22:04:36 yonkeltron [~user@2605:2700:0:3::adf5:4928] has joined #lisp 22:04:57 -!- yonkeltron [~user@2605:2700:0:3::adf5:4928] has left #lisp 22:05:22 groovy3shoes [~cory@cpe-075-177-191-179.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:04 vsync: either uiop or iolib 22:07:29 ah, i just (re)found "current recommended libs" on cliki 22:08:20 i see iolib mentioned... not so much uiop 22:08:44 -!- groovy3shoes [~cory@cpe-075-177-191-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:09:12 -!- groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:09:29 use uiop if you want something built-in but not too capable, otherwise iolib 22:09:55 oh dear, iolib appears to be attempting to supplant everything and claims to be "better" than standard Common Lisp? 22:10:00 -!- ffilozov [2eedc883@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.237.200.131] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:11:08 vsync: yes, and it is 22:11:27 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Bbl. o/] 22:11:51 hmm, the readme doesn't have anything about running external programs but rather about serving sockets 22:12:08 and uiop's API just appears to be a redefinition of CL package facilities 22:12:27 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:12:32 -!- milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has quit [Quit: [Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/]] 22:13:38 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 22:13:57 -!- mjb9Mike [~mjb@cpe-173-175-254-25.tx.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 22:15:09 mjb9Mike [~mjb@cpe-173-175-254-25.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:01 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 22:17:04 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:19:34 fe[nl]ix: so what makes it awesome? 22:20:23 bhyde [~bhyde@18.111.104.53] has joined #lisp 22:20:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:20:40 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.147] has joined #lisp 22:22:25 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@18.111.104.53] has quit [Client Quit] 22:22:28 If you need me to open the door to the stata center, email me. 22:22:32 Or tweet at me! 22:22:39 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:48 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:23:01 Xach: at mit? 22:23:56 miah [~miah@archserver/trusteduser/miah] has joined #lisp 22:24:12 vsync: yeah. meeting is in a few minutes. 22:24:20 alex is at one of the doors. 22:24:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:24:47 is this a regular thing? 22:24:49 *vsync* lives in Providence 22:25:00 vsync: Once every few months 22:25:19 just a CL meetup? and does it have a Web page? 22:25:35 vsync: lisp meeting. it has a mailing list. 22:25:48 web ui is down for it though. clnet lossage. 22:25:50 -!- valeryz [~user@90-65-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:26:10 bhyde [~bhyde@18.111.104.53] has joined #lisp 22:26:36 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:26:41 -!- akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:26:55 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@18.111.104.53] has quit [Client Quit] 22:26:58 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:27:26 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:27:46 cool, is there an email signup address? 22:30:07 boston-lisp-request@common-lisp.net, subject "subscribe", I think 22:33:18 Fare: Are you coming to the talk or dinner today? 22:33:22 are clnet mailing list back? 22:33:25 dlowe: or you? 22:33:28 ouch - what time? 22:33:31 forgot all about it 22:33:35 Fare: talk is right now, dinner is sometime after 22:33:45 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-193-44.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:45 dammit - where? 22:33:51 Star room at Stata 22:33:57 coming! 22:34:11 *Xach* prods dlowe 22:34:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:34:52 vsync: Come on up and enjoy some Chinese food with lispnerds! 22:36:05 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-233-137.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:36:07 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 22:36:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:38:21 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-asisljxickhijtmy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:38:38 akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has joined #lisp 22:43:21 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:34 -!- morphling 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[Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 23:26:17 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:26:41 Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.224] has joined #lisp 23:27:08 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-196-165.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:27:17 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.221.205.threembb.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:42 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5af5076a.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:28:07 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.170.119.109] has joined #lisp 23:37:02 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:50 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38:50 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:38:50 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025029.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38:50 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025029.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:40:22 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 23:40:27 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:46:47 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:00 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:53:44 breakds_ [~breakds@ppp-70-226-173-79.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 23:55:49 -!- tekai [~tekai@d216019.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Quit: zZZ] 23:57:16 Don't you think format is a little too complicated? And what's with eq, eql, equal, equalp, and = ? 23:58:12 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.170.119.109] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:16 mjb9Mike: Do you have a proposal for better alternatives? 23:58:18 DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@101.170.119.109] has joined #lisp 23:58:25 So there is someone there! 23:58:30 the world is your oyster 23:58:46 make a better format, Mike!