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[Quit: Leaving.] 03:03:45 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:03:48 Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:50 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:04:15 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:42 Are there any decompression libraries that allows reading/decompressing from a zip file stream 03:05:30 I would like to avoid reading the entire file into memory, and as far as I know zip supports decompressing from a stream 03:06:30 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:27 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:08:26 sw2wolf [~czsq888@222.209.240.237] has joined #lisp 03:14:14 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:14:36 Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:14:38 -!- scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has left #lisp 03:17:39 minion: zip 03:17:42 zip: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/zip 03:18:16 *drewc* is going to re-write that so it uses the new cliki .. 03:18:55 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:40 Guthur: but what you probably want is : http://www.xach.com/lisp/salza2/ 03:20:17 and the http://common-lisp.net/project/zip/ or something similar 03:20:55 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:21:02 Guthur: and of course : https://github.com/franzinc/zlib/ 03:21:09 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 03:23:36 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:19 that is just my cliki'ing/google'ing etc, so others likely may have some better advice, but https://github.com/franzinc/zlib/ seems fine to me for (INFLATE INPUT-STREAM OUTPUT-STREAM). 03:28:37 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:29:10 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 03:29:45 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 03:32:53 -!- breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:33:16 drewc cheers, i checked out zip, unfortunately it does not seem to expose a means to decompress from the stream, it will load the whole decompressed entry either to a stream or vector 03:33:50 I'll check zlib 03:34:11 Maybe you could use that thing quicklisp uses. Deflate? 03:34:27 or inflate rather. there's inflate-gzip-stream anyway 03:35:35 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@222.209.240.237] has left #lisp 03:36:08 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.84] has joined #lisp 03:36:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.84] has quit [Changing host] 03:36:08 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:44:28 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.170.240] has joined #lisp 03:44:30 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-170-53.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:46:10 drewc: are you using zlib with Franz's Lisp ? 03:46:45 the inflate.cl seems to be what I would want but it seems to have some dependencies that I am not aware of 03:49:15 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.248.36] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 03:50:19 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:52:16 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.248.36] has joined #lisp 03:52:38 -!- groovy3shoes [~cory@cpe-075-177-191-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 03:52:46 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #lisp 03:52:46 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:55:14 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:01:20 ghast [~user@host66.190-137-236.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:01:39 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:02:19 Guthur: no, I am not using it at all, nor Allegro CL. But : http://www.quicklisp.org/ 04:02:47 ql:s-a shows gzip-stream as existing. 04:02:53 CL-USER> (ql:system-apropos "zlib") => ... # 04:02:54 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 04:03:45 I think that is a different zlib than the franz one 04:04:38 as mentioned here there our 2 zlibs http://www.cliki.net/zlib 04:05:10 ah, that could be. 04:05:12 unfortunately the franz is not in quicklisp, not surprisingly because it does not even use ASDF, which think may be a requirement for QL 04:05:48 I'm looking at the implementation in QL itself now, per bike's suggestion 04:05:55 might fill my needs 04:06:32 (ql:system-apropos "zip") <--- there are many things to try it seems. 04:06:51 nostoi [~nostoi@132.Red-79-155-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:59 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-245.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 04:07:07 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #lisp 04:07:07 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:08:51 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[~nick@72.250.219.55] has joined #lisp 04:17:29 -!- NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lngompoqpngvujwx] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:17:34 mutley89 [~mutley89@host86-162-137-53.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 04:17:40 dpwright [~daniel@li413-20.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:18:25 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@132.Red-79-155-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Seite geschlossen] 04:18:44 gf3 [~gf3@aether.gf3.ca] has joined #lisp 04:19:30 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:36 -!- techlife [~jimmy@123.130.6.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:20:27 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 04:22:06 hpd [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 04:23:24 gzip-stream is exactly what I want except for one minor (show stopper) issue 04:23:46 It only processes gzip files, and unfortunately I need to support ZIP files 04:24:00 Guthur: it works for zip files, too 04:24:15 Guthur: only on the first file in a zip, though 04:24:17 really, umm, maybe my zip file is corrupt 04:24:28 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ZZZ for Me, Me, Me!] 04:24:39 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5af506a3.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:55 i get "bad length value in non compressed block" 04:25:04 Guthur: i think i needed to hack a bit, but i use it for zip files successfully. 04:25:51 techlife [~jimmy@123.130.6.89] has joined #lisp 04:27:06 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5af5026f.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:40:18 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.32.235] has joined #lisp 04:42:13 -!- arrdem [~user@wireless-198-213-251-207.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:48:46 ortehcreedence [~orthecree@c-67-180-62-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:52 What is the uiop equivalent of cl-fad:directory-exists-p? I've only been able to find ensure-directories-exist so far, but I only want to check for a directory's existence 04:54:14 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:38 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.32.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:00:25 -!- symaxian [~symaxian@76.177.44.86] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:04:02 -!- ortehcreedence [~orthecree@c-67-180-62-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 05:04:06 -!- sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:05:13 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:08:30 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:09:05 matburt [~matburt@matburt.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:08 asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has joined #lisp 05:11:23 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12:11 -!- tenawa 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14:35:41 cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:44 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:36:56 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:38:03 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 14:40:11 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-245.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:22 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:41:15 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 14:41:16 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 14:41:16 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:43:10 mc40 [~mc@host86-148-31-142.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:43:16 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@139.125.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 14:43:51 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:50:04 what's the function equivalent to cons, but that appends at the end of the list? 14:50:27 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:50:45 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:49 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:51:48 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:52:13 clhs append 14:52:13 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_append.htm 14:52:17 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 14:52:17 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 14:52:17 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:52:40 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:53:46 stassats`: append concatenates two lists. I was asking about a function that would receive something like (function '(a b) 'c) and return '(a b c d) 14:54:02 wow i just told lisp to (describe 'sort) ....and it opened up pages in my browser! 14:54:17 right 14:54:17 protist: how did you do that? 14:54:25 Denommus: at the REPL 14:54:39 s/(a b c d)/(a b c)/ 14:54:54 Denommus: (lambda (list elem) (append list (list elem))) 14:54:56 so now i know it uses mergesort :) 14:54:58 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:55:23 so there isn't something exactly like it. Okay 14:56:00 protist: what implementation are you using? SBCL? 14:56:06 Denommus: i think there is something...i forgot what it is called 14:56:14 Denommus: Common Lisp 14:56:22 it's clisp 14:56:42 protist: Common Lisp is the standard. There are lots of implementations, like SBCL, CLISP, ABCL, etc. 14:56:54 clisp 14:57:23 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.228.29.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:57:58 Denommus: oh yeah...i usually would just (append '(a b) '(c)) ...like how bike did it 14:58:12 yup there's a *browser* variable in clisp you can set 14:58:19 eheh 14:58:37 and a few functions to turn you to the clhs site 14:58:54 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.209] has joined #lisp 14:59:05 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:59:58 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:05 Denommus: but you could (lambda (F S) (`(,@F ,S))) 15:00:29 Thra11 [~thrall@139.125.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:30 Denommus: using backquote magic 15:01:15 Denommus: if you're doing that repeatedly it's probably faster to push to the front repeatedly and then nreverse, though 15:01:48 Denommus: uhg that lambda is misbehaving 15:01:55 wbooze: it doesn't seem to have google-chrome, though 15:02:28 protist: extra set of parens around the backquoted form? 15:02:41 patrickwonders: ah! 15:02:57 Denommus: find the binary in your system and (setq *browser* "/path/to/it") in your init file.... 15:03:27 Denommus: that variable is for pointing to a browser, it's not a browser itself..... 15:03:43 patrickwonders: still no good: ((lambda (F S) `(,@F ,S)) '(a b c) d) 15:03:46 -!- cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:03:58 -!- `arrdem [~user@resnet-45-187.dorm.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:10 wbooze: nope, the value of *browser* should be a keyword, and should be in the *browsers* list 15:04:14 Denommus: there is something exactly like it! The function is named (lambda (list elem) (append list (list elem))) 15:04:20 patrickwonders: how i had it before: ((lambda (F S) (`(,@F ,S))) '(a b c) d) 15:04:37 cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:44 patrickwonders: the backquote seems perfectly happy outside the lambda...but in it it gets angry 15:05:01 Denommus: granted it's a name slightly longer than cons, but it works the same: (cons 1 '(2 3)) ((lambda (list elem) (append list (list elem))) '(3 2) 1) 15:05:02 protist: are you just trying randomly things to see what works? 15:05:03 protist: works for me in CCL 1.9 15:05:15 stassats`: no. 15:05:16 I did 'd though... 15:05:24 Denommus: yes you right, but there's a way to add to it or so, i forgot how tho, don't use much clisp.... 15:05:28 protist: ((lambda (f s) `(,@f ,s)) '(a b c) 'd) 15:05:39 protist: so, just trying things randomly without seeing whether it works? 15:05:47 patrickwonders: ah, forgot a quote :D 15:05:54 patrickwonders: my lambda was good :D 15:05:58 stassats`: ^ 15:06:13 patrickwonders: works for me now too, thank you 15:06:28 wbooze: I think by changing the *browsers* variable. But I don't want to do it right now. SBCL is good enough for me 15:06:48 patrickwonders: i suppose i did have extra parens, though :( 15:09:41 -!- Denommus [~user@201.75.85.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:32 -!- zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-167-168.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:10:51 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@200-150-182-201.static-corp.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:11:14 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:09 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 15:12:09 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Changing host] 15:12:09 sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 15:12:33 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:13:33 -!- Keshi is now known as Keshi` 15:13:51 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:14:01 ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has joined #lisp 15:14:20 I'm trying to find a way to set defaults for some variables in my .sbclrc file, but I don't want to actually load the systems the variables pertain to (at least, not on start up). Examples include yaclml::*yaclml-indent* and hunchentoot::*show-lisp-errors-p*. Anyone have an idea as to how I could do this? 15:14:33 joekarma: can't do that 15:14:57 and you shouldn't, you should bind them in your code 15:15:39 -!- Keshi` is now known as Keshi 15:16:13 joekarma: you can define a :after load-op method for those systems that you want to customize so that some piece of code is automatically loaded when you're loading the system. 15:16:20 joekarma: (in asdf) 15:16:36 joekarma: but i'll gladly admit that it is not as easy as it should be. 15:16:53 I've been experimenting with an :after method on asdf:perform, but I don't seem to be able to (find-system :yaclml) 15:17:00 zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-166-87.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 15:17:37 if you don't want different libraries to break, you shouldn't globally change variables like that 15:18:10 one thing about cl is that when you actually recognize that it is a pile of poo, you've been fallen in love so much with it that you'll continue to live in denial. 15:18:23 that's called marriage. 15:18:26 H4ns: hehe 15:18:31 "Cambridge Syndrome" 15:18:33 :D 15:20:41 stassats`: in yaclml-indent's case, the variable actually *has* to be changed globally to have any effect 15:21:07 is that so? 15:21:23 I would love if I could just set it using RESTAS's context functionality, but it doesn't work when done that way :( 15:22:03 then you're doing it at the wrong time 15:22:17 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:20 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 15:22:39 joekarma: if the systems were written to allow it, you could do that: either they would take those variables from the CL-USER package, or they would allow you to define the package, and would not re-define it (which is not conforming). But all systems nowadays just use defpackage, so you can't do that conformingly. 15:23:25 i can imagine that yacml may do its job at the macroexpansion time 15:23:52 joekarma: in practice, if you do (defpackage "YACLML") (defparameter yaclml::*yaclml-indent* 4) (ql:quickload :yaclml), it should work, but it's not with the guarantee of the CL standard. 15:24:56 Perhaps a good practice would be to put system parameters in a specific package that wouldn't have to import anything and that would not be redefined by the system if it already existed. 15:24:58 ogamita: I was thinking about doing that... One advantage I have is it doesn't have to work anywhere except SBCL 15:25:08 stassats` https://gist.github.com/joekarma/5311346 15:25:18 joekarma: you never know when you will have to deploy on another implementation. 15:25:41 true enough 15:25:54 though in my case probably s/have/want/ 15:26:05 For example, sbcl doesn't target the JVM, you may have a customer insisting on the JVM. Or sbcl doesn't target processors with a lot of cores, while Sciener CL does. Perhaps your customer will have to run it on such a machine? 15:27:42 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:01 I suppose I could also just edit the defvar form in the yaclml source, storing it in local-projects instead... 15:28:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:28:54 `arrdem [~user@resnet-45-187.dorm.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 15:29:21 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-24-173-184-38.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 15:30:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:30:56 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:32:27 -!- mc40 [~mc@host86-148-31-142.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 15:33:36 why do you even use yaclml? 15:33:49 the indented output looks atrocious 15:34:17 I think it should default to non-indenting, but the indented output looks atrocious for a reason 15:35:37 anyhow, you can set the variable in your project 15:36:13 since it does the indentation output at macroexpansion time, just binding it won't work 15:36:56 if it put white space after tags end brackets instead of before it would affect the browser's rendering of the page, in particular in tags with the CSS rule of white-space: pre 15:37:34 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:56 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:09 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:42:28 -!- zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-166-87.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:43:08 sepi` [~user@2001:41d0:8:e341::1] has joined #lisp 15:43:22 stassats`: I'm just basically trying to avoid setf'ing the variable in every project, especially since that could potentially affect subsequent project loads. Leaning towards figuring out asdf's around-compile functionality now to see if that might be an option. Not that there's anything wrong with setting a default in .sbclrc, in my view 15:43:36 -!- sepi [~user@2001:41d0:8:e341::1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:57 zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-165-183.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 15:44:27 setting it in your project won't affect other projects, if they also set it 15:45:52 I'm not really keen to make that a requirement 15:46:13 well, you chose to use yaclml 15:46:27 what do you use, out of curiosity 15:46:34 -!- lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:46:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:46:42 cl-who, mostly 15:46:45 I've switched HTML generating libraries a few times already 15:46:52 oh, that's the one I started with too 15:47:13 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:49:19 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:49:31 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7543e2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:49:33 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:49:51 things I wanted to be easy with cl-who weren't, so I switched 15:50:09 -!- newblue [~newblue@183.46.80.159] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:51:53 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-sseqaujjjanxirlg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:52:22 joekarma: out of curiousity, can you give an example? 15:52:35 jasom: working on one now 15:53:53 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:57:02 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:57:03 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.61.9] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 15:57:24 Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:57:50 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:57:51 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:59:56 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:10 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:00:56 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@mobilenet1-4-156-70.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:01:12 jasom, here's one simple comparison: https://gist.github.com/joekarma/5311681 16:03:04 there were many reasons I didn't like cl-who, and yaclml solved most of them. My main problem with cl-who was that it made socking away snippets in external functions so cumbersome. YACLML makes that very easy. 16:04:08 -!- sepi` [~user@2001:41d0:8:e341::1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:14 sepi` [~user@2001:41d0:8:e341::1] has joined #lisp 16:04:41 I also like YACLML's approach where every tag is its own macro call, and I like that it's easy to define your own. I like cl-who's approach of transforming a tree of tags designated by keywords less 16:04:42 joekarma: SEXML makes that easy too 16:04:57 joekarma: though it uses functions, instead of macros 16:05:18 I like functions better than macros too, that's one thing I just decided I could live with though 16:05:37 the reason I didn't switch to sexml is that it needed that extra step of pointing to a dtd and I was too lazy to do that at the time 16:05:51 sexml was at least equal in my eyes though 16:05:54 the dtd is included, but yes, it needs that 16:06:00 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:19 segv- [~mb@g225007070.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:06:24 actually I've been thinking of switching to sexml for future projects, but for now yaclml meets my needs 16:06:36 it's also rather accepting when you throw lists at it. so it happily renders (<:ul (loop for x from 0 below 10 collect (<:li x))) 16:08:08 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:09:27 Another thing I didn't like about cl-who is that although it works by transforming a tree, you can't just pass it a quoted form like `(:html (:head #|etc|#)). If it accepted that, at least you'd be able to intersperse rendering directives like ,@(make-list-items-from-colors colors) 16:09:32 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:09:44 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 16:10:10 joekarma: I commented on your post with how I'd do it in who 16:11:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:11:53 ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has joined #lisp 16:11:59 joekarma: and in practice, I'm only ever outputting to one stream at a time, so I can use a special for the stream and not have to pass it to my snippets explicitly 16:12:00 jasom: yes, I think that's how I did it too. I defined a macro `defsnippet' as well. But finally I just decided yaclml (and also sexlml) solved the problem in a cleaner way 16:13:18 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:14:09 I'm not saying cl-who can't be made to work for you, but I concluded that for me it just wasn't well suited to dynamically generated pages. For static html on simple-ish pages it's fine though. 16:16:26 joekarma: I preferred the cl-who way of doing it; it made it easy to (for example) call a function that renders markdown to a stream as html in the middle. Probably just a style-preference 16:17:23 jasom: fair enough, but yaclml makes that very easy as well 16:18:18 zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has joined #lisp 16:18:42 I agree that it's not particularly functional for snippets to work by outputting to a stream rather than modifying the tree to be rendered to html, but that never bothered me. 16:19:18 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:19:36 for me the ideal thing would be to have the html generating library consist of a set of functions which would generate (for example) xml-stp elements, which could then be rendered with a surrounding form 16:20:01 others may view that as bloat though 16:21:00 I like the idea of having my snippet functions generate objects manipulable by stp or dom toolkits 16:21:08 rrradical [~rrradical@209-6-197-118.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:21:23 -!- jimmy99 [~bonsai@c-69-251-139-157.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:21:53 joekarma: And I see that viewpoint, but haven't had the need to run tree-transforms on my snippet outputs yet. 16:21:59 fmeyer [~fmeyer@200-150-182-201.static-corp.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 16:23:37 fair enough. JavaScript's my "first language" though so my brain is bent that way. Always thinking in terms of the DOM. 16:24:49 DOM is just a UI lib. Nothing to do with JavaScript proper 16:25:24 jrajav: javascript in a browser is so closely tied to DOM to make that point moot 16:25:32 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:25:34 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:56 ellusioner [ellusioner@c-2c1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:25:56 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:13 jrajav: and it's arguably part of the "standard library" so it's like saying "car" has nothing to do with lisp proper 16:26:16 In that it's transparently integrated? That's convenient but doesn't make it a part of the language... It's not like you need to use the DOM to quicksort an array. 16:26:40 I've never heard that argued 16:28:12 but javascript isn't suspended in vacuum 16:28:52 jrajav: since the earliest forms of the DOM were part of JavaScript on Netscape 2, I don't see how you couldn't 16:29:17 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:29:41 antgreen [~green@out-on-159.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:10 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:31 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:31:37 Perhaps it could be more profitably discussed in #javascript or #netscape2 16:31:56 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:02 let's discuss how Common Lisp doesn't have need a GC instead 16:32:07 s/have// 16:33:46 stassats`: does restarting the image when you run out of heap count as a GC? 16:33:59 jimmy99 [~bonsai@c-69-251-139-157.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:09 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-56.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:19 i'm running on a turing machine, so i don't what this running out of heap you're talking about is 16:35:49 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@139.125.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:36:36 stassats`: Its that infinite heap of tape next to the machine :) 16:36:54 Oh, I guess that doesnt cover the running out bit. 16:37:18 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 16:37:49 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-56.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:38:11 i keep forgetting about memory 16:38:22 sellout-: it's only countably infinite. You could run out if you tried to list all the real numbers on it. 16:38:43 GuglielmoS [~guglielmo@ppp-32-126.21-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 16:39:53 could you? 16:41:10 stassats`: not really; it's not possible to list all the real numbers on it, even given an infinite amount of time, but that doesn't mean you can ever run out 16:41:23 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.228.29.208] has joined #lisp 16:42:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:44:15 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 16:44:55 -!- sz0` [~user@78.188.55.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:45:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:49:02 Thra11 [~thrall@46.208.139.20] has joined #lisp 16:50:19 -!- GuglielmoS [~guglielmo@ppp-32-126.21-151.libero.it] has quit [Quit: GuglielmoS] 16:55:23 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 16:55:32 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:56:23 -!- jimmy99 [~bonsai@c-69-251-139-157.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:56:41 tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:57:06 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-159.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:57:27 do let and let* can bind multiple values as m-v-b? if not what do you think about http://common-lisp.net/project/metabang-bind? 16:57:32 casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:40 Is there a common name for (* (ceiling N x) x)? Something like ALEXANDRIA:LERP. 16:57:56 ghotiphud [~ghotiphud@static-96-228-194-4.tampfl.ftas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:11 jimmy99 [~bonsai@c-69-251-139-157.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:46 nan_: they can't, which is why metabang-bind was created. I've not used it myself though. 17:00:04 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:00:26 tcr: i wondered about that just yesterday 17:00:31 tcr: if you find out, share 17:02:04 jasom: thanks, i think bind looks like nice 17:02:09 tcr: Isn't that the same as (- x (nth-value 1 (ceiling n x))) 17:03:14 tcr: next-multiple? 17:03:49 tcr: I suppose mine isn't guaranteed to be an integer 17:05:04 though as long as N and x are integers it is 17:06:33 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 17:07:27 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.119] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:28 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.54.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:48 Blkt [~user@82.84.153.57] has joined #lisp 17:07:49 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.119] has joined #lisp 17:07:51 sdemarre [~serge@143.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 17:08:31 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 17:09:38 GuglielmoS [~guglielmo@ppp-15-123.21-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 17:11:00 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-64-86.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 17:12:39 hi 17:14:07 -!- `arrdem [~user@resnet-45-187.dorm.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:05 I can live with next-multiple, thanks 17:15:41 I know this is only slightly on topic for common-lisp, but does anyone know how is the problem of raising 1.1 to power of (1/2)^n called? 17:16:20 I want to google more about it, but can't recall the name of the underlying issue with ieee floats that makes this a non-trivial excercise 17:16:36 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:19:07 joekarma: if you think in terms of dom, you might like the cxml:dom,chtml,buildnode,talcl,css-selectors html generation stack / set of libraries for generating html output 17:19:34 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 17:21:59 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:22:43 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 17:24:06 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-232-137.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:24:24 cheers, thanks for the suggestion. I actually use css-selectors / chtml / cxml-dom currently, though more often I use stp-query (which is actually built on top of css-selectors) 17:24:42 is this hopelessly outdated? because it looks like a good intro to web programming in Lisp: http://www.adampetersen.se/articles/lispweb.htm 17:25:10 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host45.181-1-162.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:25:21 I might just try to get something like sexml to generate the stp elements directly, rather than parse them from strings 17:25:26 with chtml 17:26:18 -!- sdemarre [~serge@143.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:26:38 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:26:46 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has joined #lisp 17:27:06 protist: Doesn't look hopelessly outdated to me, but I'm not familiar with the "bleeding edge" of lisp web development 17:27:16 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-244-69.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:27:38 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:27:57 protist: If you're looking for something more high-level you can try weblocks, but the documentation is very spotty, and a lot of what you find on google for it is hopelessly outdated 17:28:19 protist: it looks like it would be useful to learn from, but if you're actually going to build a web app I'd use restas instead 17:28:36 that's a personal thing though. restas is a bit higher level 17:29:12 protist: in any event, that tutorial will get you started on the nuts and bolts; you can always move up to restas or hu.dwim or weblocks or whatever later on 17:29:24 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-180-69.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:29:46 joekarma: i know a lot of theory and several langauges, but i know nothing of web development...so a simple no-assumptions intro is what i need 17:30:12 jasom: joekarma: thank you both for all the feedback :D 17:30:16 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-64-86.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:30:55 no problem, and sounds like a good plan 17:31:00 I like that the tutorial uses elephant 17:32:23 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:32:23 protist: are you using mac os x? 17:33:00 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 17:33:25 joekarma: fedora 18 17:33:50 is there a facility to "forward" all &key arguments down to function called? 17:33:58 mmm, if that makes any sense 17:34:29 arrdem [~user@wireless-198-213-220-168.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 17:34:33 okay good, because on the mac one of elephant's dependencies (clsql) stopped working for me recently in sbcl, that might be frustrating to deal with but since you're using fedora it shouldn't be a problem 17:34:47 dim: you can use &rest and then apply them to the function 17:34:59 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-cnmccmgesnikyyde] has joined #lisp 17:35:13 yes but I'd like to still ues &key, is there something? 17:35:28 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:35:59 dim: (defun foo (&rest args &key x y z) (funcall bar args)) 17:36:06 err, apply 17:36:12 actually, if anyone here is a mac user, could you try quickloading clsql-uffi? I want to see if that fails for everyone or just me 17:36:25 oh, Xach, nice, thanks 17:36:40 now that I've written it though, I'm not so sure that's what I want to do 17:36:46 but I'll keep it in mind, certainly 17:37:04 Xach: don't you also need &allow-other-keys? 17:38:30 jasom: if you want to allow arbitrary arguments, yes. 17:38:48 jasom: but if you want to restrict to :x, :y, and :z, no. i've used it both ways. 17:38:53 and %allow-other-keys maybe? 17:39:22 Xach: I never bother with it if I know all the keys; I suppose if I had a half-dozen key arguments I might want to though. 17:39:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:39:29 arbitrary keyword arguments, that is...they must still be valid keyword pairs. 17:39:54 jasom: it can also be handy for selectively overriding a particular argument 17:40:16 e.g. http://lisptips.com/post/37350128056/duplicated-keyword-arguments 17:40:32 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-cnmccmgesnikyyde] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:40:41 -!- Guest42286 [~lukas@194.228.13.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:41:14 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:41:45 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-wgcgemxlgntwtswk] has joined #lisp 17:43:12 -!- arrdem [~user@wireless-198-213-220-168.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:24 arrdem [~user@wireless-198-213-220-168.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 17:44:12 -!- arrdem [~user@wireless-198-213-220-168.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:39 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:06 arrdem [~user@wireless-198-213-220-168.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 17:45:45 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:46 cmm- [~cmm@109.64.142.162] has joined #lisp 17:46:28 -!- GuglielmoS [~guglielmo@ppp-15-123.21-151.libero.it] has quit [Quit: GuglielmoS] 17:47:36 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-wgcgemxlgntwtswk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:47:44 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.232] has joined #lisp 17:47:50 okay, so I'm hoping there's a better way to accomplish system-local binding of other packages' special variables than this: https://gist.github.com/joekarma/5312207 17:47:53 -!- matburt [~matburt@matburt.net] has left #lisp 17:47:56 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.111.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:48:05 that was the best I could come up with 17:48:34 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-tndeoktjnzodkdxx] has joined #lisp 17:49:50 and of course it breaks slime, in that forms compiled with C-c C-c or files compiled with C-c C-k will wipe out these settings anyhow 17:51:23 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:51:55 s/breaks slime/breaks when interacting with slime/ 17:53:28 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 17:54:00 that does not break slime ... you are asking it to do an around-compile via ASDF ... C-c C-c and others use common lisp + swank to compile, and C-c C-k compiles the file, and does not ASDF:LOAD-SYSTEM at all. 17:54:11 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-tndeoktjnzodkdxx] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:54:15 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-cbbmjkksiptdyyyy] has joined #lisp 17:54:15 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-cbbmjkksiptdyyyy] has quit [Changing host] 17:54:15 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 17:54:43 right, it doesn't break slime, but it doesn't interact with it well 17:54:47 k0001 [~k0001@host45.181-1-162.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:55:05 I understand why it doesn't work though 17:55:08 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 17:55:30 GuglielmoS [~guglielmo@ppp-15-123.21-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 17:55:40 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-zddanlxdrkjlcjyc] has joined #lisp 17:55:55 mmm, is it expected not to be able to (loop named foo ... finally (return 'x)) and have to explicitely return-from foo? 17:55:59 lukas_ [~lukas@194.228.13.29] has joined #lisp 17:56:12 for C-c C-c to know what asdf file compiled a form and then use that file's around-compile function would probably be asking too much 17:56:23 -!- lukas_ is now known as Guest49000 17:56:26 no, you are choosing to interect with lisp via ASDF for that, so it interacts with asdf ... http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/ASDF.html 17:57:20 dim: I think so  RETURN returns from the NIL block, and you named the LOOPs block, so its not NIL. 17:58:10 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:58:23 drewc: I understand the distinction 17:58:25 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 17:58:47 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:20 sellout-: yeah that's the error I got, surprising but real easy to fix, thanks 17:59:50 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:52 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:00:00 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-zddanlxdrkjlcjyc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:00:14 joekarma: if what you wanted worked, I would not be using SLIME, because I only use ASDF to load systems... not for files or blocks of code. If i remember correctly, that is what ASDF is meant for, systems. 18:00:36 tekai [~tekai@d212242.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 18:01:20 that seems like a rather large tradeoff considering how frequently I use both asdf and slime 18:01:52 dim: If you can use LOOPs RETURN construct rather than the RETURN macro, itll do what you want. 18:02:05 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-dlxewwevcaamiqzt] has joined #lisp 18:02:07 how do you spell that? 18:02:15 joekarma: well, if you want stuff that is not supported by slime itself, but an add-on, what is wrong with http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/ASDF.html ? 18:02:17 usually in conjunction with one another, but if I were to use :around-compile I would lose the ability to granularly redefine and recompile functions with the same global state 18:02:25 my earlier attempts at finally return 'x didn't work, that's the elisp syntax 18:02:30 I'm not sure you can do that in cl 18:02:38 dim: You can't 'finally return' 18:03:15 akovalenko [~user@77.51.57.41] has joined #lisp 18:03:19 drewc: my problem isn't with the convenience of loading an asdf system. that is reasonably convenient, whether keyed into the repl of called from emacs with m-x slime-load-system 18:03:29 you can do like `when (something) return x`, though. 18:04:51 my problem is that I find C-c C-c (compile slime-compile-defun) to be extremely convenient, but I would like function #'foo compiled with (ql:quickload :my-system) to be the same as function #'foo compiled by moving the cursor over the form and calling slime-compile-defun 18:05:08 joekarma: so your problem is that 'what you are doing is ASDF, not common lisp, but somehow you want common lisp to know and error when trying to compile something that may be in the .asd's somewhere somehow' ? 18:06:05 that's a rather loaded problem statement 18:06:15 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:06:21 and as a solution, no, that's not what I'd want ideally 18:06:32 I mean, that is not terribly hard to do... but for me, well, I would simply wrap a (LET ...) in the file I want to compile with that LET ... but again, I like common lisp, so ymmv. 18:07:32 *drewc* also stopped using yaclml about 3 months ago, so 2003-2013 :) 18:08:59 -!- arrdem [~user@wireless-198-213-220-168.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:04 not really following why the fact you like common lisp has any bearing on this conversation 18:09:45 but top level lets have the problem that they're only file local 18:09:57 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.167.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:10:25 yeah, I would never do that either, nor the asdf thing ... what i do it simple : 18:10:31 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 18:11:17 In my experience, c-m-x (or c-c c-c) does the same thing as ql:quickload in 99.9% of the cases. When it doesn't, I use my convenient (reload) function, to call ql:quickload 18:11:22 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:42 bitonic [~user@net-93-64-178-246.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 18:11:46 (let ((yaclml:*yaclml-indent* t)) 18:11:46 (yaclml:with-yaclml-output-to-string ...)) 18:12:20 I have that in one file, and there are over 500 files that use yaclml in that project. 18:12:46 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:12:49 Seems like that form is begging for being wrapped in a defun 18:12:53 I also have it in (defun CALL-WITH-YACLML (...)) 18:12:57 top-level lets tend to cause problems 18:13:24 so that I can easily change the T to NIL. 18:13:30 top-level lets definitely make it more difficult to use slime.... 18:13:33 and paredit 18:13:54 C-M-a stops working to go to the top of the defun, since now the let is at the toplevel 18:14:03 also you can't redefine a single function without wiping state 18:14:18 at least, not from slime with C-c C-c 18:14:20 *drewc* has a number of toplevel lets, and uses SLIME + paredit. 18:15:06 drewc: I never said you can't use them together, I said it makes it more difficult to use it. top level lets will handicap what you can do with the encompassed forms 18:15:07 Certainly not the end of the world, but I find that most of the places I'm tempted to use a top-level let work better with a defvar or defparameter 18:15:10 you., you want state as the function has it defined, but redefining that is not what you want? 18:15:19 sbcl gives style warning: Implicitly creating new generic function XXX yet spec says you can have defmethod without defgeneric and defmethod required to define defgeneric if there are not one. why this warning exists then? 18:15:48 billstclair: if you like dynamic and do not use closures very much for that situation, defvar is fine. 18:15:56 back to your yaclml thing though, drewc, I'm surprised that works 18:17:09 -!- Guest49000 [~lukas@194.228.13.29] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:17:30 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@46.208.139.20] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 18:17:48 nan_: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Style-Warnings.html 18:17:58 Well, that only works for code that I compile under that form ... 18:18:03 I guess if it's in a different file which then compiles the files with the actual yaclml it should be okay though 18:18:07 right 18:18:23 -!- zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:19:31 otherwise, well, right there is the big reason I stopped using yaclml ... I like CL, and yaclml is not at all ... it is a compile time language. 18:19:57 ah, I see what you were saying now 18:20:28 that makes sense then 18:20:55 so what are you using now? 18:21:10 wait, sexml 18:21:42 https://github.com/drewc/drewc.org/blob/master/yasexml.lisp 18:22:37 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:22:39 no, sexml is the name of a number of projects that are a macro language that does not make sense to me ... I like less code that does more :) 18:22:46 Xach: thanks (loop repeat 100 do (format t "~&RTFM first!")) 18:23:52 warning, bad aesthetics detected, you have no style 18:24:13 nan_: errors and warnings are really bad, style-warnings are probably bad, and notes are hints to help you write more easily optimized code 18:24:56 -!- protist [~protist@125-237-130-19.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:25:03 "style-warning: don't wear socks with sandals" 18:25:50 heh ... we used to wear socks with sandals on "wreck beach" in the summer time ... 18:26:11 so you wore socks, sandals, and nothing else? 18:26:12 but had nothing to do with style, it was practical 18:26:20 -!- mm0 [~Matt@cpe-108-182-29-196.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:30 ASau [~user@46.115.22.9] has joined #lisp 18:26:56 yup ... I was even married there ... and my ring is a tattoo :) 18:27:25 "warning: that went off-topic quickly..." 18:28:00 "style-warning : /topic is not about socks and sandals and nude beaches " 18:28:20 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:29:53 arrdem [~user@wireless-198-213-220-168.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 18:31:01 -!- arrdem [~user@wireless-198-213-220-168.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:31 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:32:18 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 18:33:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:33:40 orthecreedence [~kvirc@c-67-180-62-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:01 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:02 -!- GuglielmoS [~guglielmo@ppp-15-123.21-151.libero.it] has quit [Quit: GuglielmoS] 18:34:43 breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] 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joined #lisp 19:27:40 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Changing host] 19:27:40 sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 19:28:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-203.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:30:06 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-046-005-061-181.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:31:29 Denommus: the language doesn't have a add element to end of list, in part because it's not very efficient due to having to chase down the end each time. you might be tempted to use (last my-list) do do that, but after a moment or two you'd notice that isn't going to work out if my-list is nil. one common technique is to use push to accumulate the list (in reverse order) and then when your done use nreverse. another common technique is to 19:31:29 loop do the magic of accumulating the list for you 19:34:58 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:40 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:27 -!- ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:37:50 ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has joined #lisp 19:40:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:41:27 I think you can have some dual linked lists implementation in cl-containers and elsewhere, too 19:41:47 Using an adjustable vector and using vector-push-extend is nice, too 19:42:01 bhyde: or hold on to the end yourself :P 19:42:10 that, or pushing on the beginning and at the end reverse the entire list. 19:42:56 http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-containers/documentation/metabang.cl-containers-package/class-dlist--container.html 19:43:53 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 19:44:39 -!- arrdem [~user@wireless-206-76-87-236.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:51 arrdem [~user@wireless-206-76-87-236.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 19:45:07 Or if you don't want a double-linked list, here is a toy "hold on to the end yourself" solution: http://paste.lisp.org/display/136507 19:45:29 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:30 (cons (last list) list) 19:46:07 last surely is O(n)? 19:46:26 -!- nuba_ is now known as nuba 19:46:34 yup, that is just to start of course 19:47:16 I would use :conc-name in your nice example 19:47:19 O(n) is fine for short lists eh, particularly these days 19:47:29 tail-list-tail could be easier to read as tl-tail 19:47:34 that turns a list into a cons of last cons and list ... modifying it, you do not use LAST 19:47:36 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:47:57 i used to have a setf method for accumulating a list in the right order, but it seems to have gone missing 19:48:02 -!- ellusioner [ellusioner@c-2c1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Hihi] 19:50:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-203.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:50:16 -!- erikc [~erikc@209.20.28.194] has quit [Quit: erikc] 19:51:12 -!- ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:51:24 bege: that is the strangest way to define a constructor I've ever seen 19:51:26 But as far as I remember this tail-list thing is as fast as the push-nreverse combo. So I think you should use it only if your logic is non-sequential. 19:51:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-203.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:52:28 bege: for very large lists, it can be faster if you are never going to read from the list 19:52:48 jasom: I agree, but I don't know any other way to define that constructor correctly. 19:53:13 bege: I just calle the constructor %make-tail-list and then (defun make-tail-list ...) 19:54:46 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 19:54:49 ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has joined #lisp 19:55:20 jasom: well, if you are nevergoing to read from the list, why are you creating it anyway? Or probably I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say here... 19:56:06 bege: well never going to, or not going to do it for a while, or whatever; nreverse of a large list will trash the CPU caches 19:57:08 bege: if you read the list right away it doesn't matter too much since you are going to do O(n) work with a constant factor that is typically much larger than nreverse, but if you do a bunch of other stuff first, then it can make a difference 19:57:47 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:58:36 I don't see why nreverse should trash any caches. It requires no extra memory, just traverse through the list and flip the pointers. 19:59:12 bege: which if you have more pointers than fits into the CPU cache, will fill your cache with a lot of dirty data 20:00:03 bege: and it's partly a "stupid benchmark" thing; if you benchmark nreverse versus keeping the tail and just throw away the list, the keeping the tail will *look* much faster, but the overhead when you include actually doing something with the list becomes a tiny fraction of your time 20:00:58 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@219.Red-79-150-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:01:16 But you don't have to store the pointers. You need only 2 extra pointers for the whole operation. 20:01:40 ellusioner [ellusioner@c-2c1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:01:49 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 20:02:02 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:27 bege: you have to write either the CARs or the CDRs of each cons cell in nreverse; assuming they are not already in the cache, that will load lines into your cache, and then mark them dirty 20:03:27 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 20:04:16 which string manipulation library do you guys use? 20:04:50 Denommus: depends on what I want to do; for simple stuff just split-sequence + the builtin sequence stuff 20:05:58 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:06:02 cl-ppcre for regex, smug for parsing, format for making one string from lots of other stuff 20:06:55 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:51 Speaking of which, I owe a beer to whomever decided to make cl-ppcre take parse-trees as an input; it made my shell-glob code simple and elegant 20:08:22 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:08:25 jasom: I think you have to write only the CDRs. And that is a simple sequential operation, which should not flood anything. Maybe that triggers something in the guts of a lisp implementation I don't know of? 20:08:36 -!- jimmy99 [~bonsai@c-69-251-139-157.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:08:43 jasom: what about replacing? 20:08:46 bege: lets say you have 40 million CONSes 20:09:12 atakor [~user@c-98-201-84-250.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:22 Ok I have it, then what? 20:09:42 nreverse is an in-place operation 20:09:45 bege: write to 40 million CDRs; now the caches have nothing in them that they had before, and every line is dirty 20:10:17 bege: this isn't about lisp guts, it's how the CPU works. the CPU does its own caching for reads and writes. 20:10:30 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:10:45 Denommus: it's never come up 20:10:50 -!- tenawa [~user@c-98-201-84-250.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:11:07 Denommus: probably the replacement operations in pccre 20:11:08 ppcre* 20:11:18 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 20:11:45 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:57 hm, cl-ppcre has most of what I need, I guess. Thanks 20:11:58 Denommus: for python style slice replacements I use (concatenate 'string ..) on the result of (subseq) 20:12:53 sdemarre [~serge@143.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:14:25 jasom, Bike: I think I started to see your point. I am not sure though how much time we are talking about here (refilling the cpu cache) compared to the whole operation (building the list). 20:14:48 bege: which goes back to my "stupid benchmarks" comment 20:14:54 *drewc* already uses LOOP and FORMAT and does not like the syntax, so CL-PPCRE is something he avoids entirely! ... yet another syntax .. ugh! :) 20:15:08 drewc: there's a sexp syntax. 20:16:44 drewc: well, I used regexp before even knowing about Lisp, so... I'm more used to it than processing strings "by hand" 20:16:45 pkhuong: yeah, so I have heard. I still do not like the syntax even if it is sexp based ... but that is my own opinion... not anything negative about the sexp syntax. If i want a negative sexp syntax, I will complain about ITERATE :P 20:16:54 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboo79.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:17:10 drewc: but I also don't like format's syntax. Probably because I'm used to C's syntax 20:17:24 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-76-55.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:17:30 Denommus: I have been using regexes for over 24 years at this point, and CL for 10. 20:17:37 so, how's the parsing, drewc? 20:18:34 drewc: http://paste.lisp.org/+2XBX 20:18:42 drewc: what's the deal with cl-ppcre, then? Is it another DSL, like loop? 20:18:48 drewc: converts a shell-style glob to a cl-ppcre 20:18:59 Denommus: perl-style regexes are another DSL 20:19:05 pkhuong: going well actually! I have my literate thing almost done so that the files are edited and the diff(s) also diffed on the noweb forms, so source is source! 20:20:00 Denommus: what does PPCRE stand for? what does RE mean? 20:20:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-203.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:20:31 https://www.google.com/search?q=cl-ppcre 20:21:33 jasom, drewc: I was thinking it would be something more like LOOP, that changes the way a lisp code is usually structured. Having regexes inside of my code does not bother me at all 20:21:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-203.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:21:48 jasom: I didn't understand that comment to be honest. But for me both ways looked having the same speed. They have to do about the same amount of pointer operations. But I didn't consider the cpu cache thing as it was just a fast check rather than a careful benchmark. 20:21:52 drewc: as soon as this paper's done, I have to try this hack to get straight recursive descent code that can backtrack, like monadic parsing with the (lazy) list monad. 20:22:06 zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has joined #lisp 20:22:10 pkhuong: or, edit the file that is tangled, and my diff will also edit the << noweb reference block >> so that it is untangled ... so other users can simply edit the files like normal, and my untangling takes are of it 20:22:35 pkhuong: yeah, it is all about the lazy list, but! ... it can make performance suffer as well. 20:22:37 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-159-90.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 20:23:02 with asdf what is the prefered way to recompile a system ? I see a lot of noise about it while doing a web search 20:23:28 drewc: indeed, and it makes debugging nasty. That's why I want to try to see if I can do something in the spirit of instead. 20:23:29 zophy: (asdf:load-system :some-system) 20:23:56 zophy: that will recompile; if you want to tear-down and then recompile, it gets more complicated 20:24:13 somewhere in https://raw.github.com/drewc/smug/master/doc/monparsing.org there is an 'efficiency' heading, and trying +++ with lazy list is a major source of performance decrease 20:24:29 zophy: i suspect that deleting the cache where the fasl files resides is the most popular, when you suspect that load isn't doing what you expect of it 20:24:32 I feel you need :force in there 20:24:44 (asdf:load-system :foo :force t) 20:25:00 bhyde: i'm inclined to do just that 20:25:07 jasom: thanks 20:25:51 but yes rm -rf ~/.cache/common-lisp ~/.slime/fasl 20:26:22 I do that every time I upgrade my quicklisp dists 20:26:24 pkhuong: yeah, I have thought about call/cc style as well, of course with my monadic continuations 20:27:19 drewc: the logging approach doesn't need monads. Annotations affect performance, rather than correctness. 20:27:24 zophy: see also http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/Miscellaneous-additional-functionality.html#index-clear_002dsystem-69 20:27:31 pkhuong: basically, your caching thing + lazy list continuations is what is going through my head 20:29:24 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:29:43 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 20:29:51 pkhuong: yeah, but, I happen to use monads for my parser and my continuations ... so simply adding an extra interface class, and everything is fine because i have a 'type test' system as well, so though not static types, it does check out certain things. 20:30:36 ah, neat. 20:30:38 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:30:53 so for me, it is all about convenience ... and besides that, can always compile the code it another package with a different MLET* macro that dtrt!? 20:31:03 s.it.in 20:31:13 s/./\// 20:32:01 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:33:58 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:00 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 20:35:15 M-S-% it in <--- after all, stopped using vim for lisp around 2004 :P 20:35:19 *bhyde* reads second paragraph of clear-system, and wonders is there a variant of schadenfreude for the pleasure of observing another suffer thru something you've suffered. 20:36:50 *fantazo* notices that german is quiet popular among lispers 20:36:52 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:37:04 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:37:30 *drewc* went to catholic school where the pleasure was called 'first confession' and you have had mulitple , so obverving someone elses first :) 20:37:33 bhyde: ^ 20:39:00 Blkt` [~user@82.84.166.73] has joined #lisp 20:39:09 drewc: examples abound, such as the lack of sleep upon the arrival of the 1st child 20:39:35 bhyde: hazing is when you make someone else suffer through something because you had to 20:39:45 but that's different 20:40:21 indeed, as in "we forked these two branches 8 month ago, yeah intern; how about you merge 'em" 20:41:30 bhyde: or even the next 15 years of the parents life! (I have a 15.8 yr old stepdaugher ... so can take pleasure in being beyond that! :P) 20:42:45 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.153.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:44:23 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:44:59 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:45:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-203.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:46:35 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abob48.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:47:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-203.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:49:12 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboo79.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:49:26 minion: memo for Fade: break thru in hot upgrade: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiK7ciFttFI#t=2m0s 20:49:26 Remembered. I'll tell Fade when he/she/it next speaks. 20:49:35 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:57 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-157-44.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 20:53:23 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:58 -!- _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 20:54:32 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@200-150-182-201.static-corp.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:54:36 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:58:05 -!- arrdem [~user@wireless-206-76-87-236.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:58:27 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-08b7e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:59:54 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abob48.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 21:00:14 AeroNotix [~xeno@abob48.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:00:23 Shozan 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21:31:56 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:33:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.220.36] has joined #lisp 21:33:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.220.36] has quit [Changing host] 21:33:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:33:44 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has joined #lisp 21:34:35 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abob48.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 21:35:16 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:36:26 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:37:27 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has joined #lisp 21:37:27 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 21:37:27 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 21:37:28 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:38:39 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:39:06 what does it mean when i see ^L in my lisp source files ? 21:39:26 that's a page break. 21:39:45 does it cause trouble ? 21:39:46 zophy: emacs uses page breaks for navigation short cuts 21:39:49 no. 21:39:56 it's a white space character 21:40:11 to your lisp compiler, that is. 21:40:17 to emacs it's meaningful. 21:41:01 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has joined #lisp 21:41:02 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:41:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-203.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:43:11 antgreen_ [~green@out-on-143.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 21:43:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-203.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:44:13 AeroNotix [~xeno@abob48.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:45:36 How can I interpret a 16bit pattern as a two's complement integer in cl? 21:45:59 -!- sepi` is now known as sepi 21:46:57 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:25 (logior x (- (logand x (ash 1 15))) is one way. 21:49:58 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:51:13 -!- antgreen_ [~green@out-on-143.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:51:56 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 21:52:17 is there maybe a library that does stuff like that? Maybe with macros to extract bits and set or reset them? 21:52:53 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:54:06 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:07 <|3b|> sepi: nibbles maybe? or just LDB/DPB etc in CL 21:54:13 sepi: there are already builtins to extract bits (ldb) 21:57:14 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:57:57 ok, thanks for your help :) 21:58:30 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 22:00:09 joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:42 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 22:04:11 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:04:41 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.228.29.208] has quit [Quit: Harag] 22:05:32 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 22:05:34 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 22:07:53 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 22:08:14 breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 22:09:00 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:09:55 -!- agumonke1 is now known as agumonkey 22:10:54 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.214.174.83] has joined #lisp 22:11:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-203.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:12:34 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-203.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:13:42 pkhuong: I don't get your code. What does the - do to the bit pattern? Is it stored separately conceptually? 22:14:11 it's doing sign extension, exactly what you asked. 22:14:13 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:15:52 -!- segv- [~mb@g225007070.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:16:33 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:17:54 -!- arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:18:21 now I know what sign extension is (I've looked it up on wikipedia) 22:18:30 But I still don't get the code 22:19:06 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.107.111] has joined #lisp 22:19:24 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-163-211.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:20:03 sepi: try to evaluate it for a couple values by hand. 22:20:54 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:22:09 antgreen_ [~green@dsl-173-206-64-86.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 22:24:04 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:25:52 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:53 Tumult [~nnscript@208.53.158.60] has joined #lisp 22:27:36 -!- Tanami [~carnage@unaffiliated/tanami] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:27:38 -!- Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:28:04 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.107.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:42 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:18 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.38.98] has joined #lisp 22:29:18 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:57 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 22:33:08 -!- Ralt [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:34:03 Ralt [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has joined #lisp 22:34:10 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:52 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:35:04 -!- rrradical [~rrradical@209-6-197-118.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:34 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 22:36:20 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-008-236.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:37:57 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:16 bitonic [~user@ppp-232-137.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 22:40:00 (autolisp related) So I took fixo's hatch @ http://www.cadtutor.net/forum/showthread.php?66894-LISP-for-ceiling-grid-layout&p=457921&viewfull=1#post457921 and merged his hatch function into my script 22:40:01 http://paste.lisp.org/+2XBY 22:40:16 cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-115-60.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:40:44 is there a way to insert block A at intersection frequencies of my choosing without using getpoints? 22:41:26 Tumult: this channel is specifically for common lisp; autolisp is off-topic 22:41:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-203.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:41:51 whops 22:41:55 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:42:25 arrdem [~user@wireless-128-62-144-166.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 22:42:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-203.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:45:30 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:30 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:45:30 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 22:46:48 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 22:46:49 -!- jimmy99 [~bonsai@c-69-251-139-157.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:08 -!- Tumult [~nnscript@208.53.158.60] has left #lisp 22:47:52 jimmy99 [~bonsai@c-69-251-139-157.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:20 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:28 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abob48.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 22:48:36 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 22:53:29 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 22:53:36 jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 22:55:10 -!- jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has quit [Client Quit] 22:56:02 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:08 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:08 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:56:08 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 22:58:28 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.126] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:59:59 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:02:03 nialo` [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:21 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 23:05:25 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:05:51 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:05:54 Is the value of this well defined: (loop for i from 1 for item in list finally (return i)) 23:06:29 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:07:09 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@200-150-182-201.static-corp.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:11:12 jasom: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/5FvMKZXbtNA ? 23:12:07 clhs 6.1.1.6 23:12:07 Order of Execution: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/06_aaf.htm 23:14:35 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-203.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:15:17 "generally just before the execution of the loop body." <-- can you get more vague? 23:16:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-203.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:16:49 drewc: and this is a different question, since the increment is in a different control clause than the termination test 23:17:32 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:22:42 -!- tekai [~tekai@d212242.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Quit: zZZ] 23:24:48 -!- breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:27:12 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-157-44.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:28:06 -!- orthecreedence [~kvirc@c-67-180-62-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:29:15 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:31:12 surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 23:33:21 -!- zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:36:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-203.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:34 ok, then no, it is not defined at all, and the spec only tells what is :) 23:42:41 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:44:35 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-245.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 23:44:51 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-245.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:24 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:45:28 ikki [~ikki@177.224.214.151] has joined #lisp 23:46:48 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 23:47:15 spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 23:50:09 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 23:52:00 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-140-32.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 23:53:00 -!- jimmy99 [~bonsai@c-69-251-139-157.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:53:47 Bike_ [~Glossina@65-102-1-207.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:07 ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has joined #lisp 23:54:14 groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #lisp 23:54:28 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 23:56:16 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-245.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]