00:00:24 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:00:27 bananagram [~bot@pool-108-56-161-155.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:54 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:00 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003b4c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:24 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:07:14 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:26 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:09:52 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-98.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:54 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.134.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:23 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-25-105.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:12:38 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-234-194.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:02 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:10 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.234.194] has joined #lisp 00:14:46 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g226063244.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ab ins bett] 00:14:52 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:17:38 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.234.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:17:51 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 00:17:57 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:18:21 -!- taraz [~user@p5B29807F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:19:09 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:08 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.134.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:24:15 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #lisp 00:24:50 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:06 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 00:25:34 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-78-150.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:28:27 quick & dirty way to serialize a hash table? 00:29:10 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.160.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:29:20 alexandria:hash-table-alist 00:29:54 that'll work 00:30:21 loses lots of info, but that's the "dirty" part 00:30:26 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:32 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:05 cl-store for less dirty way? 00:31:15 yes, that works too 00:33:45 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:35:13 kmb [~kmb@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:42:17 sw2wolf [~czsq888@118.112.68.229] has joined #lisp 00:42:53 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:22 -!- v0yager [~v0yager@173.247.9.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:00 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-tfbalawyclldgihv] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:56:52 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:57:20 xpoqp [~xpoqp@unaffiliated/xpoqz] has joined #lisp 01:00:24 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:14 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:06:18 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 01:06:21 -!- s00pcan [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:09:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:20 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:25 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-175-189.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:11:15 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:11:41 nialo [~nialo@ool-18ba446e.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:49 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:04 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:42 -!- oticat` [~oticat@36-229-166-124.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:23:08 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:30 Bacteria [~Bacteria@orchard.med.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 01:26:01 jasom: serializing is 'easy' ... but the contents of the hash table itself could be 'hard' indeed 01:26:26 drewc: strings and integers in this case 01:26:39 but I'm just using cl-store now 01:26:57 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 01:28:25 jasom: and what is wrong with, say, maphash (or LOOP) and PRINT the results? 01:28:39 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:30:27 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 01:30:36 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 01:30:51 drewc: yeah, that would probably work, but cl-store is easy 01:31:14 less code on restore too (I don't have to make-hash-table and all that jazz) 01:32:12 oh, and what's wrong is that it's not delimited; COLLECTing the results and printing that would work though 01:33:22 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:33:46 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:39:56 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:42:38 -!- veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:43:42 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:43:49 quadquad [1806875b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.6.135.91] has joined #lisp 01:44:36 hello, i'm sure this question is asked a lot, but is there a portable way to get input without echoing it to the terminal? 01:44:47 (e.g. password input) 01:45:52 -!- ravster [~ravi@71-19-174-130.dedicated.allstream.net] has left #lisp 01:46:57 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@orchard.med.monash.edu.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:13 define "portable" 01:47:16 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:47:51 portable in the common lisp sense, or portable in the "trivial-X" sense 01:48:51 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:49:12 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.253.215] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:49:30 quadquad: linux only okay? 01:49:59 maybe os x too? 01:50:40 you can use a termios binding for that 01:50:46 quadquad: https://github.com/redline6561/trivial-raw-io 01:50:50 for example 01:51:32 (btw, the underlying desire to have this is that i need to read from a device that looks like a keyboard) 01:52:18 so, speaking of streams, if i have some functions that take a stream and write bytes to it, is there some way i can make a byte array stream for them to feed to, similarly to a string stream? 01:52:56 Bike, babel-streams 01:53:33 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@46.208.141.244] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 01:54:26 thanks. 01:54:32 S1216400500944 01:54:37 woops 01:55:20 -!- xpoqp [~xpoqp@unaffiliated/xpoqz] has left #lisp 01:55:30 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:06 Oh, uh, I didn't mean characters. I just want a hacky thing so I can get a #(4 5 6) or whatever out. 01:56:43 oticat` [~oticat@36-229-167-86.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:21 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:22 Bike, babel-streams:with-output-to-sequence creates a byte stream 01:57:32 Oh, ok. 01:57:40 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:58:04 -!- oticat` [~oticat@36-229-167-86.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:58:37 ISF_ [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has joined #lisp 01:59:13 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 02:00:28 SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 02:03:53 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:05:31 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 02:06:30 paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:07:41 jasom: T-R-IO seems to be working, though not in Slime, which is a bummer 02:13:24 -!- Guest84896 [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:13:43 xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 02:14:03 -!- xristos is now known as Guest44233 02:14:36 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:14:44 veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:16 -!- dekuked [~dekuked@72.234.205.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:16:24 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:16:49 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:41 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 02:18:48 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 02:19:08 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:13 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:21:16 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:23 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:22:40 dekuked [~dekuked@72.234.205.107] has joined #lisp 02:24:25 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 02:30:27 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:41 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:32:58 -!- quadquad [1806875b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.6.135.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:33:57 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:34:15 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:34:36 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:39:48 -!- adeht [void@213.251.177.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:44:33 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:21 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 03:00:30 SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 03:01:06 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 03:03:07 -!- cades [~mac@114-32-245-7.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:03:34 -!- bananagram [~bot@pool-108-56-161-155.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:03:45 -!- Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-249-241.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Ack! Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 03:04:20 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:13:04 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:18:09 -!- dekuked [~dekuked@72.234.205.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:18:39 -!- kmb [~kmb@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kmb] 03:30:28 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:54 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:39:47 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:41:36 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 03:41:50 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Client Quit] 03:42:13 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 03:55:05 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:55:13 z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has joined #lisp 03:55:13 -!- z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has quit [Changing host] 03:55:13 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 03:57:58 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:00:01 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:00:29 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:54 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:02:50 cades [~mac@123-195-47-244.dynamic.kbronet.com.tw] has joined #lisp 04:03:08 Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:03:21 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:04:11 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:06:50 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-98.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:40 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@118.112.68.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08:52 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-yzvukugxiawgobvn] has joined #lisp 04:09:07 thomas_yzj [~user@175.8.20.52] has joined #lisp 04:13:36 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 04:23:19 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:23:35 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18ba446e.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:27:38 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:07 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:30:29 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 04:34:06 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:34:11 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:34:50 tomorrow is the last day to submit for els 2013 04:35:28 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 04:35:49 teggi [~teggi@113.172.59.16] has joined #lisp 04:37:20 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 04:39:30 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:43:18 is there a good way in common lisp to use a (slot-value something-nil 'not-there-slot) to have it eval to nil instead of throwing an error? 04:44:19 do you need it on slot value, not an accessor? 04:44:35 well, I could use either I suppose 04:45:04 I want something like, (let ((x (or (slot-value thing 'x) 0)))) 04:45:21 well, without closing off my let before doing something, but a graceful default 04:45:40 as it is i am nesting a bunch of lets with (when thing (slot-value blabla 04:45:55 normally i'd just (defun coolhead (object) (if (slot-boundp object 'x) (slot-value object 'x) nil)) 04:46:33 or just (defun slot-or-default (object slotname &optional default) (if (slot-boundp object slotname) (slot-value object slotname) default)) 04:46:43 should an update to uiop.asd to filter the warnings reported by gendl on allegro qualify as bumping the asdf version? 04:47:06 ahungry, slot-value-using-class 04:47:21 joe9 [~user@c-24-98-97-215.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:51 thanks guys 04:49:03 -!- n0vember [~n0vember@liberacescursedpiano.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:49:23 n0vember [~n0vember@liberacescursedpiano.org] has joined #lisp 04:50:38 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 04:51:27 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.8.20.52] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:51:52 i settled on your slot-or-default with an extra (if (not object) default (..., at the start 04:54:50 sw2wolf [~czsq888@118.112.68.229] has joined #lisp 04:55:08 -!- veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:57:25 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.212.196] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 04:57:34 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: casion] 05:00:43 -!- agumonkey [~agu@17.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:02:51 is there a common lisp library for point-free programming and haskell prelude stuff? 05:04:06 alexandria has compose, curry, etc 05:04:26 dunno if that's in the Prelude exactly though 05:09:41 so... not sure exactly what you're looking for. 05:09:52 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:10:39 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 05:14:54 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.212.196] has joined #lisp 05:15:38 bike, thanks. will check out alexandria 05:15:56 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-yzvukugxiawgobvn] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:16:46 bike, do you know if I can use alexandria in emacs? 05:17:00 i mean while coding in elisp. 05:17:14 -!- pokes [~pp@pokes.xxx] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:17:19 you can't use CL libraries in elisp any more than you could use haskell ones, far as i know 05:17:21 pokes [~pp@pokes.xxx] has joined #lisp 05:19:13 Bike: ok, thanks. I understand that there was a cl.el and cl-extra.el that can be used in elisp. wanted to check if this was similar to those libraries. 05:20:14 Fare: could you replicate the monofasl issue? 05:20:30 joe9: those are to make elisp more CL-y, i think 05:20:44 oh, i guess he's gone. 05:20:51 how dare he. 05:21:31 *gendl* zzz 05:22:01 *sw2wolf* i am dreaming a CL version EMACS :) 05:24:02 sw3wolf, what about the CL version EMACS? in the works? 05:24:27 shouldn't be that hard. is it? 05:24:50 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.208] has joined #lisp 05:25:00 as it turns out, emacs is actually a rather complicated system. 05:25:13 there are a few attempts though. 05:29:47 -!- joe9 [~user@c-24-98-97-215.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:36:40 stumbles [~stumbles@2001:44b8:41c5:9600:219:d1ff:fe10:f770] has joined #lisp 05:37:56 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:39:12 I'm just playing with some Emacs lisp to export an Org-mode file as an HTML string. What am I doing wrong here: (org-export-as-html 3 :to-buffer 'string) 05:40:00 you may want #emacs. 05:40:01 docs say that if I pass the symbol 'string' to TO-BUFFER, it will return the export as a string 05:40:19 ok, thanks Bike 05:43:10 veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:15 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:44:15 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:44:38 -!- keltvek_ [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:44:38 -!- derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:45:24 -!- cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:45:24 kliph` [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 05:45:54 cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has joined #lisp 05:46:10 -!- nightfly [~sage@sagenite.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:46:24 -!- kliph 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computer has gone to sleep] 06:50:41 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:05 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 06:52:36 some more Lisp animation fun: compare these two https://github.com/dto/2x0ng/blob/master/speech.el http://blocky.io/2x0ng-fight2.webm 06:53:53 -!- veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:53:59 dto: the second link shows nothing to me 06:54:19 works 06:54:20 Works here. 06:54:20 antonv: might be a codec issue. try this: http://blocky.io/2x0ng-fight2.avi 06:54:30 hi again Bike . 06:54:32 works already, thanks 06:54:44 oh. 06:54:58 the neutral gang sure doesn't seem very neutral. hi dto. 06:55:15 :) 06:56:01 anyway. don't expect a lot of this stuff in the finished game, it's sort of an experiment I did to flesh out the animation system, while i took a break from hacking on the gameplay 06:56:53 "this stuff", you mean the dialogue? 06:57:20 yeah. i mean there will be occasional bits but nothing like a plot 06:57:43 the other vid, the tutorial, is more likely to show up more or less intact. just a brief optional sequence showing how to play the game interactively. 06:57:47 brb 07:02:14 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:39 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 07:13:29 dio|||an| [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 07:14:04 CoughSyrup [~csyrup@71-221-120-25.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:44 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:53 -!- dio|||an| [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Client Quit] 07:17:22 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 07:22:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-83.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:24:12 cades [~mac@NCTU-Wireless-NAT221.nctu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 07:25:08 nostoi [~nostoi@105.Red-79-157-234.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 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closed the connection] 10:14:06 vsync: what would be a good name for such a function? 10:14:30 maptimes maybe? 10:14:54 i see that various collecting macros/functions are not yet included but there is a "collectors" lib 10:15:09 vsync: i'm not sure. i'd go for (loop for i below 10 collect (f)) 10:15:09 map-into is not what you want? 10:15:27 vsync: a function can't be much cleaner than that. 10:15:37 bah, loop :) 10:15:48 i do like to learn about "below" though, that's nice 10:15:50 <|3b|> (loop repeat 10 collect (f))? 10:15:59 |3b|: even nicer 10:16:10 vsync: one-liners are where loop actually shines 10:16:36 H4ns: good to know. 10:16:58 i have yet to start using loop. maybe i'll keep my eye open for good one-liners. 10:17:12 antonv: map-into and friends go over an existing sequence; i want to make a new one of a given length 10:17:33 prw [~chatzilla@87-57-209-106-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:42 (map-into (make-array 10) (lambda () (random 10))) 10:17:57 ooh 10:18:00 you guys are all so smart 10:18:13 I saw this somewhere 10:18:17 maybe on lisp tips 10:18:54 wow, i went on a wild tangent 10:19:01 dt770 [dt770@c-411ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:19:19 the worst part is this whole thing was just to avoid repeating myself in a let form 10:19:57 if i knew more about trig and normals i would be doing it a better way anyway 10:20:02 (map-into (make-list 10) (alexandria:curry #'random 10)) is not too bad, actually. 10:21:12 btw 10:21:26 ha, i am actually generating randoms too 10:21:42 I often find myself recently changing alexandria:curry to (lambda () ...) 10:21:48 antonv: because? 10:22:12 maybe code becomes shorter 10:22:15 or cleaner 10:22:56 if alexandria:curry was invoked by one symbol, maybe it will be more readable for me than (lambda () ...) 10:23:34 you could just use alexandria 10:23:40 or import the curry symbol.... 10:23:59 for example (alexandria:curry #'random 10) - here alexandria:curry stands out more than random 10:24:01 vsync: i'm in the ":use :cl"-only camp 10:24:22 fair enough but what about importing curry 10:24:41 antonv: i understand what you mean. maybe package local nicknames will be the solution for me 10:24:47 yes 10:24:55 antonv: i.e. use alexandria as x 10:25:18 I haven't found the solution suitable for me (didn't have time to thing about it) 10:25:38 note 10:26:04 (lambda () (random 10))) is 24 characters, (alexandria:curry #'random 10) is 30 10:26:22 antonv: i don't care about character counts, i care about readability 10:26:30 -!- prw [~chatzilla@87-57-209-106-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has left #lisp 10:26:52 btw, ABCL recently commited support for package local nicknames, compatible to SBCL 10:28:24 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:28:26 when is asdf going to commit support for system local system names 10:29:00 gendl: havent heard of system local names, what are those? 10:29:14 they are something i just dreamed up this moment 10:29:29 why you want them? 10:29:32 and beyond their name, i'm not sure what they are 10:29:47 quicklisp will eventually start having system name collisions 10:30:16 and i prefer not name all my systems with com.genworks.blah 10:30:22 or org.gendl.blah 10:31:04 gendl: this is less a problem than package nicknames 10:31:13 package names are used through all the code 10:31:15 -!- dt770 [dt770@c-411ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Fug!] 10:31:31 system name only once, in :depends-on or (ql:quickload) 10:31:39 so long names are OK 10:32:04 that is your opinion. 10:32:19 and i see your point. 10:32:53 sorry, i didn't mean to start a discussion on it now 10:33:45 I don't mind to discuss something 10:34:03 i don't either, but for me, now is not the time, 10:34:37 i got up early this morning, 10:34:50 came to office room and expected to unplug internet soon ;) 10:34:52 for example, the way to demonstrate CL implementation developers the number of users (CL programmers) who want package local nicknames 10:35:27 i agree package local nicknames are a more pressing issue 10:35:43 maybe best to defer discussion about system names (opportunity cost, you know? ) 10:36:00 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 10:36:17 Both (lambda () (random 10)) and (alexandria:curry #'random 10) are 5 cons cells. This is what matters in lisp. 10:36:32 hey if I go off-grid, how can I catch up on discussion? 10:36:40 is this room logged in real time? 10:36:42 minion: please tell gendl about logs 10:36:43 gendl: direct your attention towards logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 10:37:48 stassats: thanks. 10:37:52 minion: thanks. 10:37:52 you're welcome 10:40:56 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 10:40:57 Evanescene [~Administr@218.74.186.70] has joined #lisp 10:46:44 -!- Evanescene [~Administr@218.74.186.70] has left #lisp 10:48:05 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 10:48:33 interestingly how fast clojure added namespace aliases (what we call package local nickames here) 10:48:35 https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/clojure/Jk7p2XNYV4o 10:49:04 veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:09 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:49:13 7/15/08 the first message to mailing list with proposed patch 10:49:33 two replies from Rich with some notes 10:49:38 a language with only one implementation can be changed much easier than one with an ansi standard and dozens of implementations. 10:49:46 no surprise, i'd say 10:50:14 7/21/08 - commit in the clojure repo: first cut at namespace aliases, via Graham Fawcett 10:50:18 and where two people can't agree on one thing 10:50:28 s/one/a reference/ 10:52:37 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g225051145.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:54:32 antonv: perhaps that's the advantage of a single-implementation language with a dynamic developer? 10:54:38 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:54:43 -!- veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:57:49 veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:28 -!- veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:04:09 veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:08:16 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-78-150.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 11:09:43 -!- veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:10:48 is there a library i should use as my go-to if i want to do some simple geometry, like, where does this line intersect that one? 11:11:22 last time i needed computational geometry, i could not find a library that suited what i needed. 11:12:13 i guess i will have to solve for x and whatnot 11:12:21 Wrap something like CGAL? Geometric predicates aren't usually simple if you care about correctness. 11:14:16 there is GSLL... 11:17:56 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 11:18:03 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 11:18:25 -!- benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:20:36 https://github.com/Ramarren/cl-geometry 11:20:48 but unfortunately, "The system assumes exact rational arithmetic, so no floating point coordinates are allowed" 11:22:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:22:27 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.20.234] has joined #lisp 11:22:55 vsync: You can cl:rational(ize). 11:22:56 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.20.234] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:57 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-234-250.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.20.234] has joined #lisp 11:23:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.20.234] has quit [Changing host] 11:23:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:25:34 doomlord_ [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:25:35 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:24 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:26:34 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 11:26:37 it also says "The system was not heavily tested or used" 11:26:44 i have GSLL installing now anyway 11:27:39 ivan4th [~user@213.141.132.14] has joined #lisp 11:27:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:27:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:31:18 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 11:32:55 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00203c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:50 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 11:35:36 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 11:36:12 -!- CrazyEddy [~preacknow@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:37:25 oh-ho 11:37:26 http://paulbourke.net/geometry/pointlineplane/linesegments.lisp 11:38:58 frgo [~user@p5B0DD750.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:44:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.71.138] has joined #lisp 11:44:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.71.138] has quit [Changing host] 11:44:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:45:02 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-56-14.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:46:48 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:46:52 -!- ivan4th [~user@213.141.132.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:49:48 zickzackv [~faot@g225051145.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:49:51 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g225051145.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:15 -!- ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-81-244-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ipmonger] 11:52:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:53:14 ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-81-244-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:00:45 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.133.85] has joined #lisp 12:02:23 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 12:06:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:07:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:08:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:16:17 redline6561: blog is down 12:17:55 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:20:31 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-210-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:21:53 Xach: thanks for the heads up. I just switched DNS, probably forgot to update something. 12:23:09 Xach: is it up now? seems to be up to me. 12:23:51 -!- frgo [~user@p5B0DD750.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:40 -!- doomlord_ [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:25:04 spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 12:25:26 Oh, server is up but blog isn't. 12:25:58 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:28:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:28:25 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-35.isr.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:45 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:32:48 -!- spion_ is now known as spion 12:38:28 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:39:17 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.100.40] has joined #lisp 12:44:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:46:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:46:35 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-210-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:47:55 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:37 bitonic [~user@dyn903-152.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:52:29 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:52:39 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 12:53:08 Fixed. 12:54:13 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 12:54:38 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:56 yay 13:05:24 -!- agumonkey [~agu@17.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:07:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:09:18 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:09:20 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:13:05 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.16] has joined #lisp 13:13:40 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.100.40] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 13:13:48 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.100.40] has joined #lisp 13:20:40 kliph` [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 13:22:04 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8F18.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:22:09 kmb [~kmb@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:26:34 hlavaty` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 13:27:22 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.170.48] has joined #lisp 13:27:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.71.138] has joined #lisp 13:27:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.71.138] has quit [Changing host] 13:27:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:28:54 -!- hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:29:27 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:29:44 veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:31:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:32:13 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:06 Which was good to know as I think I'll write a blogpost about a wip project today. 13:34:13 How's the new quicklisp release coming Xach? :) 13:34:26 I did that days ago 13:35:52 Oh, awesome. I've gotten too used to the blogposts. :P 13:35:58 -!- veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:38:00 I really want to finish the redirct service before another blogpost 13:38:08 Just been pretty busy and haven't finished it yet. 13:38:09 akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has joined #lisp 13:39:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-13.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:41:26 LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-4-63.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:54 You mean l1sp.org? What redirect service? 13:42:36 if Xach told us, he wouldn't have to blog about it! 13:43:53 still, he told it's a redirect service, so we can try to guess 13:44:10 redline6561: l1sp.org fits 13:44:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:44:42 But that's been around forever! :) 13:44:45 *redline6561* eagerly awaits news 13:44:48 what other redirect service may be useful in CL world? let's think 13:45:19 *redline6561* prepares for a lisp-based Reader replacement 13:47:19 -!- stumbles [~stumbles@2001:44b8:41c5:9600:219:d1ff:fe10:f770] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:48:17 -!- kmb [~kmb@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:49:37 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:49:38 well just something so in my announcement, for any given project, I can use the url http://// 13:49:48 and if that link is 404, someone in the know can make it go to the right place 13:50:09 sort of light a very very lightweight, low-ritual cl-user.net or cliki 13:50:16 sort of like, rather 13:50:19 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.208] has joined #lisp 13:50:53 Neat. 13:51:11 Between that and quickdocs, we're on fire! 13:53:39 well, it still has to be built 13:53:40 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:19 fairly trivial but not so trivial that it just springs into existence 13:55:57 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:32 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:56:35 -!- pegu [~user@cF469BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:17 htm, https://github.com/rpav/c2ffi-cffi looks nice at first sight. lets check it out from a closer distance! 13:58:29 *attila_lendvai* wanted to start a project exaclty like that 13:58:57 CoughSyrup [~csyrup@71-221-120-25.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:17 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:02:14 kmb [~kmb@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:19 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:05:20 Kenjin [~kenjin@193.136.206.238] has joined #lisp 14:08:30 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:09:58 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:40 minion: where is the log 14:10:41 behind you! 14:11:05 minion: /help logging 14:11:06 -Compiler error: Variable 'Girlfriend' cannot be found or does not exists. 14:11:08 ^ This is actually a very common problems found when programming 14:11:21 minion: logs 14:11:21 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 14:11:28 CoughSyrup: you're in the wrong channel 14:12:18 it was a joke all programmers can enjoy 14:12:34 or do lisp programmers not have that issue? 14:12:55 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:01 do you have to write lists in LISP to keep track of all of them? 14:14:56 what would an error look like in LISP if a declared list named Girlfriend didnt exists 14:15:05 ? 14:15:07 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@193.136.206.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:34 i dont have an REPL installed yet, im still just reading about it 14:15:37 Kenjin [~kenjin@193.136.206.238] has joined #lisp 14:15:52 CoughSyrup: instead there would be a warning about undeclared symbol and that it got created 14:16:04 or that the symbol Girlfriend was not bound 14:16:25 Kenjin_ [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-35.isr.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 14:16:34 s/undeclared/unbound/ 14:16:57 oh.. shame cuz girlfriend not bound is funnier 14:17:39 CoughSyrup: a list exists as long as you can access it 14:17:47 so you don't have to worry about it 14:17:59 > Error: Unbound variable: |Girlfriend| ; CCL 1.9 14:19:03 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:20:12 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@193.136.206.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:20:43 cades [~mac@115.80.23.183] has joined #lisp 14:26:00 -!- cades [~mac@115.80.23.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:26:06 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.170.48] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:28:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:28:30 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:45 -!- kliph` is now known as kliph 14:28:47 -!- Guest44233 is now known as xristos 14:29:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:32:29 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:32:55 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 14:38:58 -!- adeht [~death@213.251.177.42] has quit [Quit: death] 14:41:11 adeht [void@al.islaam.com.ar] has joined #lisp 14:42:50 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:01 frgo [~user@p5B0DD750.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:15 *dim* waves to the room 14:47:30 Since we can't paste in the channel: http://larc.unt.edu/ian/art/ascii/shader/hires/ASCII-ukiyowaves1024-gray.png 14:47:56 hehe 14:48:06 next one with libcaca and colours? 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(unknown CFFI type: :POINTER. [Condition of type SIMPLE-ERROR]) 15:36:52 latest cffi does compile in SBCL 1.1.1 though 15:36:59 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:15 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-223-009-195.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:25 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-13.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:43:56 -!- Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-215-219-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:43 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:51 gorthaur [~Thauron@88-134-99-52-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:47:25 That looks more like a version mismatch within CFFI itself. 15:47:45 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-215-219-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 15:48:19 v [~v@199.68.198.120] has joined #lisp 15:51:39 thx... not much I can do then? 15:51:49 agumonkey [~agu@17.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:02 -!- v [~v@199.68.198.120] has quit [Client Quit] 15:52:04 dim: paste backtrace? 15:53:20 sure, http://paste.lisp.org/display/136057 15:53:47 I already did try nuking the cache completely and compiling again 15:54:31 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 15:54:49 is Ryan Pavlik here? 15:55:56 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 15:57:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:57:32 dim: wfm 15:58:08 dim: try nuking the cache and the quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/ directory 15:58:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:59:15 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:36 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:36 skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA046B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:03:09 MoALTz [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:04:54 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:10:05 attila_lendvai: Ryan = oGMo. 16:12:03 oh, thanks sellout! (why these nicks...? get a second (third, forth, ...) PGP key, go through tor, and other such stuff... OR use real identity. the middle ground I left behind long ago...) 16:13:13 oGMo: c2ff seems great, thanks for the effort! building/running it is a pain through... I tried to build if without installing a fresh automake and clang, but rather running it from a dir, but gave up... 16:14:13 oGMo: now I'm building clang again without debug (so that the clang exe won't be 600M :) and install it in /usr/local/ ... is that the suggested way? 16:15:29 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.100.40] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 16:15:33 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 16:16:45 -!- CoughSyrup [~csyrup@71-221-120-25.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:17:17 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8F18.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:17:40 ignas_ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 16:17:40 -!- ignas_ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Client Quit] 16:17:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:18:25 As I'm debugging generic-function dispatch in my CL implementation I'm comparing what ECL does as it bootstraps generic functions to what my code does as it bootstraps generic functions. 16:19:04 The problem is that there are very limited printing capabilities built into ECL as it bootstraps. I can't print lists of methods for instance. 16:19:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:19:41 H4ns: how to I ask quicklist to build its systems.txt and cdb files again? 16:20:29 dim: i never did that 16:20:35 having nuked the software/cffi directory it's not able to quickload it again, it's expecting some non-existing files 16:20:40 The pretty-printing module is loaded after CLOS and generic functions are set up. Is that why I can't print much? Is it because the code for printing complex objects like methods and generic function instances is in the pretty print module that hasn't loaded yet? 16:20:43 drmeister, can't you have a punting printer? 16:20:53 What's a punting printer? 16:21:01 File #P"/Users/dim/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/cffi_0.11.0/src/cffi-openmcl.lisp" not found 16:21:05 doesn't print much, but doesn't error out 16:21:15 # 16:21:16 so I need to have quicklisp download it again I guess 16:22:20 My code has printers defined for every class - I don't know what ECL implements while it is booting up. 16:22:53 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8F18.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:23:11 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.96.216] has joined #lisp 16:23:45 joe9 [~user@c-24-98-97-215.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:51 For example - I try to trace: "applicable-method-list" within ECL--> crash. I insert a print statement into applicable-method-list to print the arguments that are passed to it or the list of methods that are returned -> crash. 16:24:18 This isn't a criticism of ECL - it's booting and I'm messing around in ways that were not intended. 16:24:56 But it would be helpful to be able to interogate these objects to compare what their values are to what my code has. 16:25:47 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.114.99] has joined #lisp 16:26:22 There is no lower-level printing facility built into CL (lower than PRINT). 16:26:43 I think the answer is NO. 16:27:12 drmeister: PRINC and TERPRI are the lowest level. 16:27:58 WRITE-BYTE and WRITE-CHAR are probably below. 16:28:43 Yes, write-byte and write-char. princ dispatches on various special variables. 16:28:55 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.96.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:15 drmeister: define your own, put it in ECL. 16:30:35 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:48 drmeister: it doesn't matter much what method on print-object ecl implements. You are writing your own implementation. The point of the restrictions in the standard about print-object, is that princ and prin1 can be implemented without calling print-object, or calling it with special stream arguments. I expect you're implementing your own prin1 and princ functions, so you can override the print-object methods for all the classes 16:30:48 (including system classes), after you've loaded ecl code. 16:31:15 Where does conversion of the internal representation of an object to a character representation happen? 16:31:39 In prin1 and princ. They may do it, or they may call print-object. 16:31:45 The name "EXCL" does not designate any package. -- gendl is failing to #+allegro something 16:31:47 Is it PRINT-OBJECT? 16:32:07 actually, it may be prin1-to-string and princ-to-string. (or they both may call the same functions). 16:32:16 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:32:19 Fare: on it. 16:32:21 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-146-157.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:41 aw, there's also WRITE, which is a general bottleneck. 16:33:29 (trying to debug your gendl issue) 16:33:46 (sorry for not doing it earlier) 16:33:50 ooh in CCL i also just got "sys" is not a defined logical host. 16:34:09 these were both added last night, just a sec... 16:34:19 Ok, so what may be going on in ECL is there's a primitive PRIN1/PRINC defined that prints some objects and crashes on those it doesn't recognize and once CLOS boots PRIN1/PRINC are replaced by something that invokes PRINT-OBJECT which can print anything? 16:34:53 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:35:01 That's quite possible indeed. 16:35:12 I know it's not good to speculate but rather to read code but I'm trying to form a hypothesis. 16:35:43 Instead of crashing, you can always print (format t "#<~A ~X>" (type-of object) (address-of object)). 16:36:19 Doesn't FORMAT use PRINT-OBJECT? 16:36:50 Not necessarily. In anycase, I expect symbols and integers to be printable somehow. 16:37:16 Integers definitely print. 16:37:47 I mean I've printed strings and integers from ECL while booting. 16:38:07 Fare: pushed. 16:38:18 drmeister: an implementation could be written in CLOS. CLOS would be the first thing to be "loaded", and everything else would be defined with classes and methods. 16:38:19 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:27 Fare: note the way it is now will not break -- 16:38:32 to make the monofasl break, 16:38:43 make a source/try.fasl under the top-level 16:38:49 drmeister: or as ecl, an implementation can define functions and macros first, and load a CLOS written in the subset of the language CL-CLOS. 16:38:50 with (in-package :gdl-user) 16:38:54 and add that to the gendl.asd 16:39:00 as a :component 16:39:15 MoALTz__ [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:32 try.fasl --> try.lisp , i meant 16:39:36 drmeister: each implementor can choose what primitives he wants to write his implementation. Eg. sicl is written assuming LOOP as a primitive. 16:39:48 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Killed (pratchett.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 16:39:48 -!- MoALTz__ is now known as MoALTz 16:40:17 MoALTz__ [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:40:27 drmeister: the special operators are not necessarily primitives: they can be defined as macros (and macros are not necessarily non-primitive: they can be defined as special operators, as long as an "equivalent" macros is always provided). 16:40:30 cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:36 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Killed (calvino.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 16:40:36 -!- MoALTz__ is now known as MoALTz 16:41:12 drmeister: Functions in CL themselves may be primitive: specially compiled by the implementation. That's why one cannot redefine them, or write compiler-macros on them. 16:41:23 (one user, not one implementor). 16:41:29 pjb: I understand that. Sicl was written assuming LOOP is a primitive? The entire LOOP facility? 16:41:35 Yes. 16:41:57 ccl defines #p"ccl:" not #p"sys:" 16:42:03 sys: is for ecl or mkcl 16:42:04 That is a pretty complicated facility to assume as a primitive isn't it? 16:42:05 Well, of course, it has to be implemented somehow. But the rest of the functions and macros in CL are implemented using LOOP. 16:42:13 It's fun isn't it? 16:42:19 gendl: what was breaking? 16:42:31 follow the steps in my email 16:42:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42:58 drmeister: well, here the point is to realize that indeed, loop embeds a lot of details, that once are taken care of, can be reused consistently in all the CL macros and functions. 16:43:02 the gendl--all-systems.fasl will crash when you load into a fresh lisp 16:43:02 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-140-71.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:43:10 "no package GDL-USER" 16:43:15 gendl, trying 16:43:18 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:43:22 did you add the source/try.lisp ? 16:43:53 I can push a version which will break without you changing anything, u want? 16:44:02 Bike [~Glossina@207-224-22-243.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:07 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-25-233-73.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:33 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:44:52 -!- MoALTz is now known as Guest82988 16:44:52 -!- Guest82988 [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Killed (lindbohm.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 16:44:52 -!- MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz 16:44:58 pjb: I understand. 16:45:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:46:00 from the email, step 8 should yield a crash. 16:46:14 -!- cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:46:18 if not, let me know. 16:46:30 but read the followup "workaround" email 16:46:59 you have to put a source file in the top-level system as a component, which refers to a package which is offensive to a fresh Lisp 16:47:08 that will yield the crash on load of resulting monofasal. 16:47:35 and you can see plain as day that the (asdf:component-depends-on 'asdf/bundle:monolithic-fasl-op :gendl) is wrong, 16:47:38 pjb: Does sicl run as a CL implementation? 16:47:51 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.114.99] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 16:47:54 drmeister: not yet. It's a work in progress. 16:48:01 it has "system gendl" coming first, before anything else. So of course the :GDL-USER package is going to make it puke. 16:48:07 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.114.99] has joined #lisp 16:49:16 pjb: Is there any relationship between sicl and sacla? 16:49:21 imma look at that monolithic-concatenate-source-op now, that looks interesting. 16:49:32 and i'll see if that gets the same ordering prob. 16:49:36 drmeister: they both try to do something similar. 16:49:42 Bike_ [~Glossina@207-224-22-243.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:47 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-22-243.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 16:49:48 I was using aserve from the franz github, which is allegro only -- apologies for the excl: problem 16:50:17 o. i'm not sure how we could check for that from our end... 16:50:30 Bike [~Glossina@207-224-22-243.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:00 gendl: note that component-depends-on does NOT set the order 16:51:07 o. 16:52:17 I am "feeling" that the monofasl is getting the same order. but maybe that's koikidink. 16:53:26 what DOES decide the order is the input-files method 16:54:16 which calls direct-dependency-files 16:54:35 got it. 16:54:48 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@207-224-22-243.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:55:32 which calls map-direct-dependencies, which calls component-depends-on. Drats. 16:56:00 heh. 16:56:39 so, um, yeah, I suck. 16:56:47 such strong language, Fare! Wouldn't a single "Drat" suffice? 16:57:00 ok, I know how to fix that. 16:57:48 apologies for the breakage. Obviously I don't have a test case for that in the test suite. 16:58:02 lemme fix it for you... 16:58:44 i'm getting more breakage with gendl--all-systems.lisp (the concatenated lisp file) 16:59:02 but i'll wait for the first fix before reporting this, maybe it's the same issue. 16:59:39 veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:34 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:53 well, the issue is -- map-direct-dependencies is obviously the wrong thing here -- it doesn't recurse into indirect dependencies, and doesn't order dependencies 17:01:01 it just lists the direct dependencies 17:01:24 what we really want is traverse-sub-actions 17:02:45 gendl: if you're using logical pathnames, you can't use / 17:02:55 where? 17:03:14 gwl ajax/source/ajax 17:03:45 snap-folder? 17:03:47 In general, I strongly advise against logical pathnames if you want portability 17:04:15 i don't see where you mean 17:04:20 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:04:22 where am i doing it? 17:04:23 *SNAP-FOLDER* 17:04:43 oh, the version you have is so five-minutes-ago, Fare 17:04:52 that got moved into ../source/genworks.lisp 17:05:06 don't use merge-pathnames, use subpathname 17:05:10 subpathname is portable 17:05:20 merge-pathnames is a horror... NEVER use it 17:05:26 o really 17:05:30 at worst, use uiop:merge-pathnames* 17:05:34 this thing is peppered with it. 17:05:44 ok i'll look at subpathname 17:05:50 merge-pathnames* is a replacement that usually does what you want 17:05:58 the only logical pathname i was using is "sys:" which is allegro-specific 17:06:04 it has/should have #+allegro 17:06:09 i.e. handle relative pathnames the sane way 17:06:43 subpathname parse the second argument (if a string) as a unix pathname, independent of the OS or of whether the main pathname is "logical". 17:06:50 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 17:06:56 that's the only sane way of specifying, well, a subpathname 17:07:30 dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 17:07:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:08:38 and what's sys: ? who's meant to define it? That's not portable, either 17:08:58 I told you, "sys:" is Allegro-specific 17:09:02 oh, ok 17:09:05 always guaranteed to be defined in allegro 17:09:15 my code should have #+allegro in front of any "sys:" 17:09:42 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:28 ok, loaded gendl 17:10:58 can you try the monolithic-concatenated-source-op now? 17:11:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:11:16 what about it? 17:11:21 try to make one. 17:11:23 then compile & load it 17:11:27 you want to make a mega-source-file with it? 17:11:31 you can try 17:11:38 I did. it crashed. 17:11:46 is it supposed to work? 17:11:49 according to spec? 17:11:53 as long as none of the systems you use requires an :around-compile 17:12:01 none do. 17:12:13 and all use the standard utf-8 encoding 17:12:29 it's giving an undefined function error. 17:12:32 glisp:intern 17:12:51 whose definition, as far as i can see, 17:13:03 occurs before anything else 17:13:08 before any usage 17:13:23 certainly before any usage from top-level forms which would be evaluated at compile/load time 17:13:46 rtoym: ping 17:14:18 fe[nl]ix: What's up? 17:14:58 -!- joe9 [~user@c-24-98-97-215.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:15:02 defined on line 6966, first referenced on line 7400. 17:16:08 interestingly, loading the all-system fasl works for me on unmodified asdf 2.32.11 on sbcl after I (map () 'require '(:sb-rotate-byte :sb-bsd-sockets)) (load "/home/tunes/.cache/common-lisp/sbcl-1.1.5.5.master.2-ff7fc7a-linux-x64/home/tunes/cl/THIRDPARTY/gendl/gendl--all-systems.fasl") 17:16:11 rtoym: http://trac.common-lisp.net/cmucl/ticket/77 17:16:18 maybe I didn't do everything wrong... 17:16:50 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-140-71.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:10 rtoym: and second, does mp:process-wait have an efficient way to wait for a process to finish ? 17:17:13 what does that mean? I have bad character encodings somewhere? 17:18:05 fe[nl]ix: You're asking the wrong person. :-( I have never used the mp package for anything. I'll have to do some digging. 17:18:05 rtoym: e.g., Allegro's process-wait treats a few predicates specially instead of polling 17:18:07 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-140-71.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:18:08 gendl: maybe an error in loading order, again 17:18:14 joe9 [~user@c-24-98-97-215.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:21 fe[nl]ix: And thanks for filing a ticket. 17:18:30 rtoym: can you lisp paste a session that reproduces the error? 17:18:35 s/rtoym/gendl/ 17:18:48 -!- dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:18:55 which error? 17:19:07 gendl: whichever you're having 17:19:10 the concatenated source or concatenated fasl 17:19:17 either 17:19:24 both, in separate pastes 17:19:26 i'll do the fasl first. 17:19:36 -!- joe9 [~user@c-24-98-97-215.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:19:44 my attempt to do the fasl just worked w/o modification 17:19:59 did you add the source file like I told you? I bet not. 17:20:14 let me push a "broken" version of gendl.git to github, 17:20:17 then i'll send you the paste. 17:20:24 go do something else in the meantime, 17:20:31 takes 10 minutes... 17:21:09 I see that concatenate-source-op is using the same direct-dependency-files as bundle-op, which is buggy 17:21:13 what was I drinking that day 17:21:22 add a source file? 17:21:28 never mind. 17:21:35 kmox83 [~kmox83@host152-144-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:21:38 just wait a few minutes i'll send you a paste with everything you need. 17:22:35 joe9 [~user@c-24-98-97-215.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:48 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:25:34 Fare: ok pull a new gendl.git now, and I'm making the paste of the Lisp session now... 17:25:49 rtoym: really never ? 17:26:34 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-4-63.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:26:55 -!- chebastian [~chebastia@c-9b72e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:27:01 fe[nl]ix: Really. Well, I think it got used when I was playing with Garnet and maybe McCLIM. Otherwise, I've never used it. 17:27:47 Fare: http://paste.lisp.org/display/136059 17:28:17 delete all previous gendl/ that you have, 17:28:20 and pull a fresh one now 17:28:26 it should have a gendl/source/try.lisp 17:28:40 and a :components ((:file "source/try")) in gendl.asd 17:29:53 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 17:30:34 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 17:30:55 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.59.16] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:32:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:33:07 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:34:51 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:35:46 gendl: you don't have to break master, btw, just create a branch 17:35:57 i don't know how that works. 17:36:13 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:15 maybe now's a good time to learn. 17:36:27 Bike_ [~Glossina@207-224-22-243.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:44 i'm always afraid i'll lose track of things if I make branches. 17:36:53 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-22-243.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:37:08 but i do have to start making stable release branches which get bug fixes only. 17:37:08 concatenate-source-op was doing the right thing, btw 17:37:17 i.e. calling required-components 17:37:35 i'm working through the monster source file now, 17:38:03 putting in strategic (eval-when  ) to make sure things are defined in time when they're needed for compiling. 17:38:07 that was the issue with glisp:intern 17:38:12 and several others i'm finding. 17:38:35 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:39 rtoym: and http://trac.common-lisp.net/cmucl/ticket/78 17:43:07 yeah, and you may need those eval-when's if you use xcvb and its cfasl thing, anyway 17:43:32 -!- joe9 [~user@c-24-98-97-215.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:44:43 -!- veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:46:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:47:13 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-194-157-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:47:45 joe9 [~user@c-24-98-97-215.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:20 PuffTheMagic: ping 17:50:33 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-215-219-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:51:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:53:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:54:12 ikki [~ikki@187.208.253.215] has joined #lisp 17:58:09 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 17:58:10 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:58:17 PuffTheMagic: try bordeaux-threads HEAD on Lispworks: (bt:join-thread (bt:make-thread (lambda () (values 1 2 3 4 5)))) 17:58:26 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 18:00:15 Fare: I've found one in cl-fad and one in alexandria also. 18:00:37 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:25 Eldariof93-ru [~CLD@pppoe-192-157-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:01:38 missing eval-when? not surprising. 18:01:48 btw, I strongly recommend uiop over cl-fad 18:02:08 i just need that delete-directory-and-files thingie 18:02:19 and if what you want is a rm-rf, I can add a good one to uiop 18:03:04 And i need a file-directory-p 18:03:26 which returns non-nil if the file exists and is a directory type of file 18:03:48 in other words, if it's truly a physical directory which exists. 18:04:16 i don't think cl-fad's one even does that, 18:04:18 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:04:24 so my usage of cl-fad right now is broken for that purpose anyway 18:04:44 allegro and lisp works have ones which work. i'm using theirs in case of #+lispworks or #+allegro 18:05:12 -!- Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-194-157-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:06:24 what about if it's a symlink to a directory? 18:07:10 should return t 18:07:15 and maybe a second value t 18:07:33 (but i don't know about that second value thing... 18:07:42 i don't know much about what is conventional for dealing with symlinks) 18:09:00 (uiop:directory-pathname-p (uiop:probe-file* x :truename t)) 18:09:11 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:11:06 ok good. 18:11:11 so now i just need the rm -r 18:15:03 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15:58 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:17:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:17:33 how should I call it? obliterate-directory ? 18:17:50 delete-filesystem-tree ? 18:18:48 vaporize-filesystem-tree 18:18:50 i vote for delete-tree 18:19:01 or delete-fs-tree if the extra clarification is really needed. 18:19:16 and I'm having a keyword argument 18:19:18 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn903-152.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:19:20 validate-pathname ? validate ? 18:19:31 it is needed. delete-tree could be talking about an object tree in memory, or anything. 18:19:36 you call-function it on the pathname, and if it fails, error rather than delete 18:19:45 delete-filesystem-tree it is 18:20:08 what function would you call on the pathname? 18:20:14 i mean for example? 18:24:03 -!- kmox83 [~kmox83@host152-144-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: kmox83] 18:24:26 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.225] has joined #lisp 18:26:25 (lambda (x) (< 6 (length (pathname-directory x))) 18:27:35 right. 18:27:56 or (lambda (x) (subpathp x #p"/tmp/foo/")) 18:28:09 whatever floats your boat 18:28:27 but the point is: never delete a tree unless you have a validation function 18:28:39 then again, if you're suicidal, (constantly t) is that-a-way 18:28:54 heh 18:28:58 and since I'm calling call-function you can make it just t 18:29:10 :validate ? 18:29:52 well it's a required arg, right? 18:29:55 so why make it a keyword arg 18:30:37 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 18:30:38 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:41 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:31:44 drewc: Patch for smug: to let parsing file-stream starting from the current position: (defun make-file-stream-input (stream) (%make-file-input :stream stream :file-position (file-position stream))) 18:31:51 -!- arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:32:32 Otherwise, you should buy the smug.org domain and put there a page telling people to read the smug.org file in the same directory as the README.txt :-) 18:33:08 pretty much the whole of iterate needs an eval-when around it. 18:33:28 foreignFunction1 [~niksaak@94.27.89.170] has joined #lisp 18:33:55 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.114.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:33:57 keyword arg, so it forces you to type :validate 18:34:05 the default is NIL -- i.e. always fail validation 18:34:07 pjb: well, the smug that is there is all out of date ... right now I am working on this : https://raw.github.com/drewc/smug/master/doc/monparsing.org 18:34:19 ok. Thanks. 18:34:24 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:34:32 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:34:38 but, the input things need fixed ... but : 18:34:41 so... direct-dependency-files isn't so bad when the component-depends-on is calling required-components 18:34:42 o i c 18:34:58 so there must be something wrong in how we call required-components 18:35:32 pjb: http://drewc.org/interface/monads.html#sec-5 <--- that is all about making in interface, as well as the parser code itself. 18:37:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:37:57 pjb: and having said all that, IIRC the code you gave is for the struct that has the string and the position of INPUT-FIRST ... and I have not at all looked at the proper input things yet, so that code will likely be there and attributed to you. 18:38:13 Yes. 18:38:43 Well, I'm not sure attribution is required for a keyword and a list of two symbols :-) 18:38:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:39:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:40:07 for monparsing.org I simply punted on that down : (unless (equal input "") (list (cons (aref input 0) (subseq input 1)))) 18:40:27 'required' .. by me, yes it is :) 18:40:55 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [] 18:41:46 welp i can't believe i got hooked on compiling this monosource 18:41:58 when i have other real work to do 18:42:04 drewc: are CL implementations efficient enough at compiling this kind of functional code? 18:42:09 now i think i'm stymied on SharpL 18:42:35 gendl: still working on "Workaround (was: adsf/bundle:monolithic-fasl...)" ? 18:42:39 Iterate package needs some tricky eval-when's if it intends to be compiled as a single file 18:43:08 knob [~knob@66-50-188-252.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:13 drewc: no, Fare is working on that. i think he admits it's an asdf issue. 18:43:14 sdemarre [~serge@d5153F6C5.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:43:26 *drewc* has never liked ITERATE at all, since starting on CL about 10 years ago 18:44:08 well iterate itself probably could work as a monosource, 18:44:24 but it needs the eval-when's for code which comes after it. 18:44:25 at this point, I think I'm not calling required-components correctly in component-depends-on monolithic-fasl-op 18:45:07 it looks like just that one file is out of order -- the main system comes first, and should come last. 18:45:18 unless there are other misorderings i'm missing 18:45:30 or possibilities of misorderings which aren't happening in this case 18:45:35 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:45:56 gendl: I am interested in that, and a lot of the new ASDF, simply so 18:45:57 I can add "quick-build.lisp" into "ASDF/QUICK-BUILD, and the whole"monolithic-fasl-op" is something I want to work. 18:46:21 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Killed (wright.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 18:46:22 -!- MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz 18:46:35 i think the whole monolithic-fasl-op is going to make our build process about 10x simpler 18:46:43 pjb: I have not done the profiling yet, but I suspect it is quite 'slow' without the DECLARE things and a few INLINE things as well 18:46:45 that's what i should be working on now 18:47:03 -!- foreignFunction1 is now known as foreignFunction 18:47:06 and using the workaround, i have no excuse to wait for asdf to be completely perfect. 18:47:58 pjb: that said, it should be quite 'fast' when doing the correct things, simply because it would be hard to make it 'slow' considering how simple it is. 18:48:10 Of course. 18:48:59 So, the first thing I think is simply to profile it, and after that find the best data structures for input and output ... 18:49:01 I'm worried about the duplication of the structures each time we advance. With alternative this may be done a lot of times. 18:49:34 what's the windows command for recursive deletion? del /s /f /q c:\path\ ? 18:49:59 f....t c: :-) 18:50:39 Actually, this command has been ineffective on MS-Windows for an eternity. 18:51:12 Modern systems are no fun. 18:51:17 pjb: yeah, me as well, especially with the 'default' non-lazy PLUS, well, it make a whole bunch of duplicates always, and 'has to' according to what I have now. 18:52:37 pjb: but, really, that is something that can trivially change and the same code for the parser itself is used regardless of INPUT-FIRST and INPUT-REST and how the input is passed (cons output input 18:52:40 ) 18:52:55 Yes. 18:52:59 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:16 And since those structures are read-only, they can indeed be optimized into O(n). 18:54:19 So, at this point, it is simply me trying a better introduction to parsing and re-doing smug.org ... I have experienced enough that the input can be anything at all, so I do not think the performance will be an issue. 18:54:25 and yeah, exactly 18:54:58 ok. I have to try that out. 18:55:04 I have though of (cons aref-integer string) as the input type 18:55:13 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:55:36 aref-integer? 18:55:44 -!- skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA046B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 18:55:49 so input-first is (aref string aref-integer) 18:56:42 and input-rest is (cons (1+ aref-integer) string) 18:57:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:58:45 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:59:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:59:32 Bike: yes, when you go from static types to dynamic types all the time, you tend to put the type in the name so that the code reads 'as is' properly. that is an integer that will only be passed to AREF, so I named it as such because that is the 'type' of that variable and reading the code tells me what it is for and what it does. 19:00:40 SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 19:01:08 -!- MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz 19:04:25 Bike: so, for example : "bind :: Parser a -> (a -> Parser b) -> Parser b p bind f = \inp -> ...." vs "(defun bind (parser function) (lambda (input)" .. type names are 'longform' for lisp simply because the types are not static, but they 'are' in the sense that they do not change for a variable. 19:04:29 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:05:57 I don't disagree, until people use too restrictive (type) names. eg. list or vector instead of sequence. 19:07:16 pjb: yeah, interesting point actually... and I will make sure not to use restricting names at all, because I am sure I have. 19:07:23 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:07:31 gendl: so, is del /fqs c:\temp\deleteme work ? 19:08:14 gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-652-1-192-63.w83-115.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:09:09 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:09:17 Fare: you will like this : static -> dynamic -> 'in the middles types' = (deftype interface () `(satisfies check-interface-type)) :) 19:10:40 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.114.99] has joined #lisp 19:10:45 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:12:52 LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-4-63.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:48 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 19:14:36 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:14:44 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:15:50 -!- gorthaur [~Thauron@88-134-99-52-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:16:23 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:00 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:17:06 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 19:17:44 drewc: i see. 19:18:00 gotta love satisfies types 19:18:25 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:19:22 Bike: if you scroll down to the "* Common Lisp APPENDix" of https://raw.github.com/drewc/smug/master/doc/monparsing.org , you can see how and why I implemented that :) 19:20:05 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:20:07 is this literate lisp? 19:20:11 yup 19:20:38 neat 19:21:30 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:21:51 have been doing the literate thing with org-mode since 2009 ... wrote my own literate thing back then... now noweb style things are included in org-mode 19:21:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:22:10 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@223.213-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:22:10 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@223.213-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 19:22:10 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:22:22 Bike: if you look at https://github.com/drewc/smug/tree/master/test you can see the files that particular .org tangles 19:22:30 Ralt [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has joined #lisp 19:22:43 in fact, heh ... 19:23:23 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 19:23:24 http://drewc.org/interface/monads.html <--- is published from a .org file that is also the literate test suite for that library. 19:23:27 no test framework, just asserts, eh 19:23:59 well, how do you know that locally the ASSERT is CL:ASSERT? ;) 19:24:10 The problem with frameworks, is that they only work in one frame. 19:24:35 fair enough. 19:25:18 pjb: exactly ... my 'tests' do not require a framework, but FLET can easily create the start of one around ASSERT, and ASSERT works without an issue of course. 19:25:21 Crashiks [opera@77.233.195.42] has joined #lisp 19:25:28 or HANDLER-BIND etc 19:25:35 i've just been getting used to fiveam and it's pretty nice. 19:25:42 -!- Kenjin_ [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-35.isr.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:50 i started using fiveam around 8 years ago ... 19:26:11 MoALTz__ [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:26:14 Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-35.isr.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 19:26:20 so I have not only gotten used to it, but have moved forward. 19:26:37 *Bike* seniority-flattened 19:26:37 but heh ... 19:27:02 -!- Crashiks [opera@77.233.195.42] has left #lisp 19:27:06 Fare: i'll check. 19:27:20 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8F18.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:27:23 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:27:42 I can still use it for my test suites ... with FLET and (:shadowing-import-from) etc 19:28:42 -!- MoALTz__ is now known as MoALTz 19:29:24 it is just that, well, ASSERT seems to be all I need... I am an image-driven-development type, not a TDD , because that does not quite work right for image based langs like say CL or smalltalk, imho. 19:29:59 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:30:21 *drewc* had a test suite back in the day that actually 'fixed' a problem that I was trying to test to figure it out ... 19:30:33 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-35.isr.uc.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:30:38 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 19:30:57 well, I think that TDD is what lispers and smalltalkers have always been doing. 19:31:19 same with agile scrum. Those are only new words on something that always have been done by efficient teams. 19:31:25 and i found it by changing things to use ASSERT, so that is what I start and end with basically. 19:31:27 Fare: Parameter format not correct - "fqs". 19:32:04 The V cycle itself has been named in a book decrying it, in favor of the spiral cycle. 19:32:21 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-652-1-192-63.w83-115.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 19:32:34 -!- sdemarre [~serge@d5153F6C5.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:32:52 pjb: yeah, I agree save for the definitions ... I like REPL driven developement more than 'Test', because either all REPL usages are test, or none are. ;) 19:33:00 -!- Ralt [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has quit [Quit: Bye] 19:33:10 The only place where you need a "testing framework" is when you need a nice report showing the list of tests with success/failure counters :-) 19:33:39 the reports are the nice part, yes. 19:33:39 (and that may be me associating the name with the type, which is how this all started!) :) 19:34:00 Ralt [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has joined #lisp 19:34:29 gendl: /f/q/s ? 19:34:42 gendl: /f /q /s ? 19:34:45 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:35:09 (flet ((assert (&rest args) (unless (first args) (push args *failed-test-table*)))) ...) 19:35:30 *drewc* has the start of a test suite! :P 19:35:38 A stack frame for a frame work. 19:35:52 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8F18.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:37:05 ikki: saw your tweet about BNF, still reading monparsing.org? :) 19:37:20 Fare: looks like it deletes only files. 19:37:23 not the directory tree 19:37:40 drewc: in Paris, there's a quartier and a train station called Montparnasse. 19:37:44 *drewc* has his twitter go over IRC and uses rcirc ... so twitter is in emacs! 19:38:12 *gendl* has to go supervise piano practice... 19:38:26 pjb: you can find lots of good "crepes" there 19:38:43 Fare: you want a remote desktop to my windows machine? 19:38:48 -!- ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:49 Indeed, since it's the West railroads there. 19:39:39 gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-652-1-192-63.w83-115.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:40:05 Fare: if you want we can set it up some time, being called out now... 19:42:22 pjb: true! and that is a great name for the mountain that simple parsing has made my climb! and of course, it is "parnasse" in the literary sense of the word, imnsho. 19:42:29 bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 19:43:22 ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:34 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:43:39 drewc, yes :) 19:44:36 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8F18.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:44:48 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:45:48 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8F18.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:46:17 ikki: I figured as much :) 19:46:47 hey guys, anyone like browser based games, or want to take a sec to try mine? 19:46:55 http://tactics.ahungry.com/play.html 19:48:24 gendl: sure 19:49:43 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:51:47 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:34 gendl: does deltree exist? 19:54:43 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-652-1-192-63.w83-115.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:55:44 gabnet [~user@ACaen-652-1-192-63.w83-115.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:55:47 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:56:13 'del tree' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. 19:57:08 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:58:34 deltree in one word? 19:58:48 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:49 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-234-194.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:58:51 maybe I should invoke the powershell instead? How do I do that? 19:59:59 Not installed everywhere, is it? 20:00:39 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:40 -!- gabnet [~user@ACaen-652-1-192-63.w83-115.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:01:30 dunno. I thought / hoped it would be there on all recent versions of windows, but what do I know 20:01:51 del /S or something like that 20:02:48 but yes, /f /q /s should have worked 20:02:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:02:55 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:03:13 p_l: does it also remove directories, or only files underneath? 20:03:31 "del /S" prompts me with "Y/N" for each one, then does it. 20:03:41 lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:00 actually no. 20:04:08 it also only deleted normal files. 20:04:17 Suddently, (mapcar 'delete-file (directory (merge-pathnames #P"**/" path))) sounds quite nice :-) 20:04:32 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:04:48 ya why don't you do that? 20:04:54 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:05:04 gendl: because it doesn't delete directories, only files. 20:05:12 There's no standard cl function to delete directories. 20:05:15 o ic 20:05:35 what's wrong with cl-fad's one? 20:05:46 other than it needs a validation func 20:06:03 Yes, I guess asdf will have to include a delete-directory function too :-) 20:06:27 pjb: that's what Fare has been working on all afternoon 20:06:32 (well, not _all_) 20:06:46 i hope he gets it soon so he can dive back into monofasls 20:06:49 unless those are already fixed 20:06:57 will delete-file work on directories? 20:07:05 I mean, one that use implementation specific delete directory functions. Not shelling out an external command. 20:07:33 Fare: there may be implementation dependant extensions. Most often a different function. 20:08:45 Fare: will my desktop help? I'll have to set port forwarding on my routers 20:09:08 #+ccl ccl::recursive-delete-directory 20:09:21 err, perhaps better #+ccl ccl:delete-directory 20:10:08 #+clisp ext:delete-directory 20:10:40 Quicklisp also has delete-directory functions. 20:11:45 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-78-150.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:12:12 I already have #+clozure (ccl:delete-directory directory-pathname) 20:13:17 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-13-118.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 20:14:02 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:51 ok, adding an intermediate function delete-directory 20:17:44 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 20:18:31 #+sbcl SB-EXT:DELETE-DIRECTORY 20:18:40 There's a pattern there 20:18:45 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:18:50 Has anybody written a CDR? 20:19:42 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:19:51 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:19:52 Thra11 [~thrall@65.37.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:11 -!- lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:59 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.114.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:23:05 I find nothing in abcl 1.0.1. 20:23:20 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:24:47 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:23 ccl has delete-empty-directory. 20:25:46 *Fare* uses that as the name for his rmdir 20:25:48 If you don't want to delete when it still has files. 20:26:03 cl-fad says delete-file for removing directory on abcl, digitool 20:26:31 oh, let me look at quicklisp, it may have a few I'm missing... 20:26:59 *Fare* wonders whether to bother trying to dig answers for cormanlisp, gcl, genera 20:27:13 Ask for contributions! 20:28:07 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:29:08 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:41 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 20:31:02 is delete-directory-tree a better name than delete-filesystem-tree ? 20:31:12 that's what quicklisp uses 20:31:22 so is there a way to force quicklisp to renew some of its local cached information, or all the information related to some package? 20:31:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:31:38 MoALTz [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:28 delete-directory is best, similar to delete-file. 20:32:44 nu 20:32:46 oops 20:33:07 some people say clisp:delete-dir, others say clisp:delete-directory --- which is correct? 20:33:20 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:33:22 youlysse` [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:28 pjb: sorry, would delete-directory be recursive or not? 20:33:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:34:28 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:34:44 They're alias. delete-dir must be an old name, delete-directory is the current name. 20:35:19 ok 20:35:25 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:35:43 *Fare* doesn't bother with obsolete implementations -- patches welcome. 20:36:26 bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:08 oracle_dontdoit [476a925c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.106.146.92] has joined #lisp 20:37:12 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:16 lisp!!! 20:37:18 oh yeahehahe!! 20:37:23 jsj [~johan@unaffiliated/jsj] has joined #lisp 20:37:34 lispm [~lispm@d176157.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 20:37:35 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:57 frigging mexximehh..... 20:38:54 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:39:25 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-162-21.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Killed (asimov.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 20:39:25 -!- MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz 20:42:49 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:46 so... any vote on delete-directory-tree vs delete-filesystem-tree ? 20:43:47 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:44:40 definitely delete-directory-tree 20:44:50 first sounds better to me 20:45:11 ok, so it's delete-directory-tree 20:45:16 Of course, delete-filesystem-tree wants to mean that files are deleted too, not just the directories. 20:45:18 Fare: is it going to delete just the directories (empty) or delete the files as well? 20:46:26 It could also be a keyword option to (delete-directory dirpath :and-files t :recursively t) 20:47:08 or: is it `rmdir $dir` or `rm -rf ${dir}/*` 20:47:24 what do you gents think of cl-prevalence and or queryabe data in ram in data structures with some kind of update log to disk, replacing sql database, and then a web setup to provide interface 20:47:26 ? 20:47:33 seems like a megawin for web programming 20:48:38 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:48:43 *drewc* is not gentle, so has nothing to 'think' ;) 20:53:46 duende [~user@68.166.118.234] has joined #lisp 20:54:07 oracle_dontdoit: you want to implement a pure-lisp redis solution? 20:54:17 several of those exists already 20:55:16 *drewc* might comment that PSOTGRES was originally implemented in LISP, and that Persistent CLOS was one of the first things they did after porting it to C 20:55:23 see http://cliki.net/anardb 20:55:23 -!- agumonkey [~agu@17.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:55:26 POSTRES* 20:55:32 POSTGRES* 20:55:40 redis? no 20:55:40 *drewc* cannot spell at all today 20:55:45 redis is i dont know what 20:55:52 im talking about www.prevayler.org 20:56:02 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 20:56:11 postgresql was C all along I heard 20:56:12 ah sorry I was thinking about http://cliki.net/manardb 20:56:35 PostgreSQL is awesome, even if not what you're talking about here :) 20:57:06 oracle_dontdoit: we are not taking about postgresql .. that is an SQL extension to POSTGRES. 20:57:09 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:58:43 oracle_dontdoit: http://db.cs.berkeley.edu/papers/ERL-M90-34.pdf 20:58:54 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:00:41 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:49 (OR : this channel is not about Oracle or Java, so what is it that you want/need that current Common Lisp systems/projects are lacking? :D) 21:03:28 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:04:25 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:39 gorthaur [~Thauron@88-134-99-52-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:04:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:06:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:06:44 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:04 Fare: did you say uiop obsoletes trivial-backtrace? 21:09:18 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:12:07 agumonkey [~agu@17.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:09 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.112] has joined #lisp 21:12:41 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.112] has quit [Client Quit] 21:13:24 looks like pretty much my answer is yes: uiop:raw-print-backtrace, uiop:print-backtrace, uiop:print-condition-backtrace 21:14:21 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.112] has joined #lisp 21:14:50 ok I needed to (delete-file (install-metadata-file (release "cffi"))) then (delete-file (local-archive-file (release "cffi"))) to be able to cleanup the Quicklisp on-disk state so that Quicklisp would download CFFI again 21:14:56 still broken though 21:15:10 -!- joe9 [~user@c-24-98-97-215.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:15:58 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:17:15 joe9 [~user@c-24-98-97-215.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:46 grrrr, ubuntu's clisp is compiled w/o the asdf module 21:18:05 gendl, it does 21:18:35 gendl: though uiop's backtrace support is not complete, I already imported all the functionality from trivial-backtrace 21:18:41 pjb: so, I took your chat as advice, and since I'm SMUG, just registered smug.im 21:18:52 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 21:19:00 can i pretty much drop-in replace trivial-backtrace:print-backtrace-to-stream with uiop:raw-print-backtrace ? 21:19:06 Well, the readme says to read smug.org, not smug.im 21:19:24 anyway i'm doing it. 21:19:26 will let you know. 21:19:33 yeah, it will soon be smug.im.org! :P 21:19:56 gendl: more or less. I'm not sure you want the raw version, though 21:20:09 why does the other one ignore the stream 21:20:14 the print-backtrace 21:20:26 i'm passing it a stream argument, i need the output to go to that stream 21:20:37 it passes it as keys to raw-print-backtrace 21:20:54 it's pass-through. the argument is there only for key validation 21:20:56 so maybe should be (declare ignorable) 21:21:09 -!- Eldariof93-ru [~CLD@pppoe-192-157-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 21:21:11 no, it's actually ignored 21:21:16 the keys isn't 21:21:42 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 21:21:44 ignored by print-backtrace, but not by the thing it's passing-thru to 21:22:01 anyway i'll use print-backtrace. 21:22:48 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:23:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24:58 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:26:40 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:42 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 21:29:33 -!- agumonkey [~agu@17.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:29:54 tsetumel [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:01 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:32:45 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:34:39 is there a portable way to get the current system user name? 21:35:31 like, getpid ? 21:35:51 (getenv "USER") ? 21:35:59 more like the current login, yes, getenv "USER" 21:36:10 run-program "whoami" 21:36:25 you will tell me about xcvb  asdf-driver  uiop? 21:36:44 is run-program portable and already in quicklisp ? 21:36:58 dim: run-program is in uiop 21:37:02 more like (xcvb-driver + asdf-utils + some more)  asdf-driver  uiop 21:37:02 which is in asdf 21:37:05 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:37:18 but uiop is also available separately thru quicklisp 21:37:20 # 21:37:25 dammit, directory-files is broken on clisp 21:37:33 ok I can get that as an answer then 21:37:44 I guess uiop has some kind of getenv ? 21:37:47 Fare: don't get sidetracked with clisp right now... 21:38:09 mark it as broken and move on 21:38:44 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 21:38:46 -!- tsetumel [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:38:47 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:39:53 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-192-63.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:36 looks like :type :wild doesn't catch files with type NIL on clisp 21:41:24 -!- tsetumel_ is now known as tsetumel 21:41:32 GRRRRR! 21:41:33 s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-198-238.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:54 We need to write a CDR and push on implementors. 21:43:51 maybe more than just one 21:44:03 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 21:45:18 wooooaaaah https://github.com/lmj/lfarm 21:45:20 certainly do 21:45:28 until then, there will be uiop 21:45:52 I'm quite happy to be able to use uiop now, thanks for that, btw 21:45:57 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:47:02 From afar, uiop reads as  = shore. 21:47:22 sure 21:47:42 after this long digression, back to required-components and monolithic-fasl-op 21:48:07 where do I find current uiop docs? 21:48:11 does it mean the same in russian? 21:48:32 Yes, it's an English word, imported phonetically. 21:48:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:48:34 dim: you extract the docstrings, and/or you write them 21:48:52 I can also just use the source, ok 21:49:04 the russians have so little coastline that they had to import an *english* word? 21:49:14 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.253.215] has joined #lisp 21:49:18 dim: sorry about that, but yes 21:49:18 I think there are some tools to extract the docstrings and produce HTML pages, like arnesi docs etc, but I'm yet to see about that 21:49:33 and yes, more docstrings would be great 21:49:39 :-( 21:49:43 :-) 21:49:46 no pb, it's a tool for developpers, so that's ok as long as the docstrings actually do exists and as an interim answer 21:50:08 if any function is confusing to you, tell me, I'll add a docstring. 21:50:14 There's also  = berge (fr). 21:50:16 thanks, will do 21:50:23 most of them should be pretty straightforward from the name + source 21:52:54 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:53:14 so the bug is: (1) I'm getting the list of fasl-op operations, and extracting their outputs (2) monolithic-fasl-op is a subclass of fasl-op so bang, it's there first. 21:53:22 or something 21:54:04 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.16] has joined #lisp 21:54:16 nah, I think that's the wrong explanation. 21:55:07 *Fare* grabs his SLIME 21:55:54 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 21:56:05 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@65.37.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 21:58:09 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:31 how can I make an actual list with things like #-allegro in it? 21:59:15 i need a literal list which is (:lisp :aserve #-allegro :cl-base64 #-allegro :babel) 21:59:28 when i'm _on_ allegro 21:59:32 so it will print out like that 21:59:37 i don't think that's possible 21:59:48 then i have to fake it 21:59:48 gendl: think about it! 21:59:49 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:54 What is a list? What is #-allegro ? 21:59:58 since, you know, reader macros 22:00:04 (a list with \#-allegro) 22:00:06 i don't need it to be read 22:00:08 just written 22:00:16 oh? 22:01:01 i'll fake it with a string somehow... 22:01:06 This is lisp. When you want to represent random things, use a symbol! 22:02:07 i'm just trying to compute the contents of an .asd file 22:02:08 Skrylar [~Skrylar@cpe-70-113-115-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:10 as a list 22:02:17 That said, you may want to process the feature expression. 22:02:18 and the depends-on has these reader conditionals 22:02:22 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:02:44 then want to write the .asd file 22:02:47 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 22:02:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:03:29 (:lisp :aserve (\#+ :allegro) :cl-base64 (\#- (:or :allegro :clisp)) :babel) 22:03:53 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:55 There's a CDR with a function that tests (:or :allegro :clisp) for you. 22:04:27 (featurep '(:or :allegro :clisp)) 22:05:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:05:10 some featurep's already do that 22:05:25 for this i'm trying to compute the :depends-on list of an .asd file 22:05:34 https://github.com/genworks/gendl/blob/master/cl-lite/source/cl-lite.lisp 22:05:48 asdf-system-list about halfway down that file 22:06:22 cajetanus_ [~cajetanus@public-gprs467809.centertel.pl] has joined #lisp 22:06:29 (the asdf-depends-on) is read from a file 22:06:31 depends-on.isc 22:06:38 that file is the only thing i want to have to maintain 22:06:43 Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:43 -!- Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:06:43 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:06:49 and the file contents is what I showed 22:06:55 a list with those conditionals 22:07:03 I can make it as a string 22:07:17 the rest of the list is properly sorted, except the first entry... 22:07:21 in the file, like "(. )" as contents in the file 22:07:36 but them i'm not sure how to get it to spew out properly in that form 22:07:38 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:07:43 in the :depends-on in that template 22:07:51 maybe not possible 22:08:04 maybe i have to do the whole asdf-system-list as as string instead of an actual list 22:08:09 then write-string that string 22:08:19 -!- cajetanus_ is now known as cajetanus 22:08:29 like Bike said. 22:08:54 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:55 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:46 lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:51 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 22:10:21 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:10:27 astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-235-122.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:58 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:11:26 failed AVER: (NULL (FUNCTIONAL-ENTRY-FUN LEAF)) This is probably a bug in SBCL itself. 22:11:33 always nice. 22:12:03 i recently ran out of heap while compiling. that's gonna be fun to figure out 22:12:55 -!- tsetumel [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:13:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-89.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:50 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:13:54 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:18:02 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 22:19:33 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:20:53 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:22:38 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:51 -!- taraz [~user@p5B2984BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:23:07 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 22:25:06 so, about that SBCL 1.1.1 failure to compile lparalel on mac... such problems happen a little too often to my taste, what am I doing wrong? 22:25:42 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:26:00 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:27:16 v_ [~v@61.173.91.144] has joined #lisp 22:31:15 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:31:40 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:32:00 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8F18.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:33:14 GrayMagiker [~Steve@c-67-164-129-95.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:19 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 22:35:34 veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:09 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:38:56 SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 22:40:31 gabnet_ [~l7gv93ko@ACaen-652-1-192-63.w83-115.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:42:24 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:42:25 -!- cajetanus [~cajetanus@public-gprs467809.centertel.pl] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:43:55 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8F18.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:44:03 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:08 -!- youlysse` [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: BB-in-like-2-hours... o/] 22:44:17 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:33 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00203c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:48:51 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:23 Fare: can you make it so the :depends-on can take a string? 22:50:28 -!- gabnet_ [~l7gv93ko@ACaen-652-1-192-63.w83-115.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 22:50:33 and if a string, you just do a read-from-string ? 22:51:09 or more safely a (let (*read-eval*) (read-from-string  )) 22:52:11 let me try 22:52:38 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@69.116.232.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:54:46 Thra11 [~thrall@65.37.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:50 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.208] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:55:43 nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d816878.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:59 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:59:43 Could someone offer some insight on file loading that explains this behaviour? https://gist.github.com/jsmpereira/5178674 23:00:33 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.160.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:00:50 agumonkey [~agu@17.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:51 well I guess it would be pretty trivial, but maybe ill-advised. I wouldn't want one of our .asd files to blatantly break slightly old asdf just because of laziness... 23:02:34 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 23:03:14 -!- gorthaur [~Thauron@88-134-99-52-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:05:31 Is there a proper way to fill a string from a SAP? SBCL seems to be happy converting a null-terminated C string, but I can't punch it in to accepting a non-null terminated string with a size prefix :\ (well, could use pinning and memcpy in C, but wanted to do the lisp way) 23:05:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-13.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:06:50 -!- frgo [~user@p5B0DD750.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:07:02 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:07:18 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d816878.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:08:53 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:40 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:13:11 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:14:30 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:15:02 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 23:16:52 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-120-174.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:54 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8F18.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:22:07 Kenjin: when do you get the error? 23:22:27 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:23:16 Bike: when doing ql:quickload or just C-c C-k 23:23:21 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:58 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:24:36 If I remove :element-type it loads without error. Just trying to know a bit more of how the loading works so I understand whats going on and why that happens 23:24:51 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@65.37.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:29 I think it's an SBCL bug about not doing compile-time side effects of defclass. It works in CCL. 23:25:47 well, works up to me getting a bunch of undefined variable warnings :) 23:25:54 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:26:13 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 23:26:18 hehe ;) 23:26:56 Basically make-array has a compile transform that wants to know what (upgraded-array-element-type 'tile) is, but it doesn't know what that type is, so... 23:27:19 (u-a-e-t 'tile) would probably be T anyway, though, so you could just remove that (or conditionally on sbcl) 23:27:54 Bike: yeah, its exactly u-a-e-t thats complaining 23:28:10 googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 23:28:30 Kenjin: I think https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/310120 is the bug. Not totally sure. 23:29:57 Bike: thanks! Exactly the kind of insight I was looking for ;) 23:30:09 i think it's the deftransform (list &key (:element-type (constant-arg t))...) in array-tran.lisp, yes 23:31:22 Oh, hm, it works if the dimensions is an integer. 23:32:42 Probably it could be patched to punt if the type is unknown like the vector transform does. 23:33:05 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:12 Bike: indeed. Interesting. 23:33:54 The transform on (integer &key (:element-type (constant-arg t)) ...) knows to give up, is all. 23:34:28 -!- lispm [~lispm@d176157.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Quit: lispm] 23:36:05 bleh, i'll just tape it together with a C call for now 23:37:21 Skrylar: what do you mean, fill a string from an SAP? You have an SAP and want to make it into a lisp string? Not gonna happen, particularly not with a copying GC. If you can, make it so your foreign function writes in a pinned string directly. 23:38:35 Bike: https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/master/src/compiler/array-tran.lisp#L592 23:38:49 SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 23:38:58 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-188-252.prtc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:39:21 i'm seeing if i can't patch it right now, yes 23:39:48 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:39:59 pkhuong: I have something like "int size; char* buffer;" from a serialization lib; SBCL would auto-convert if I returned a null-appended string, but I wanted the string from just the set number of bytes. 23:41:02 Skrylar: oh. You can write deportation routines and what not to make this transparent. I don't think it's worth the trouble, and would just add an explicit conversion function. 23:41:25 make-string and then setting each cell one at a time would work (but is horrifyingly inefficient), or make-string + pinning + FFI call can just memcpy it over 23:42:32 *Skrylar* hoped there was some equivalent in lisp to something like, "make a sequence of 8 bytes by copying from this SAP in to a new sequence" 23:42:43 make-array and ub8-bash-copy. 23:42:44 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:43:39 Careful though, our base characters are only 7 bit ASCII. If you might have > 127 values in that char buffer, you'll want to copy and expand into 32 bit characters (i had a nice SSE loop for that once :) 23:44:13 Kenjin: i wrote a quick patch that seems to work. i'll put it on the bug tracker. 23:45:23 Bike: Thanks! 23:46:42 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-234-250.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:48:47 pkhuong, hm. I tried the wrong copy function earlier then. Thank you. 23:50:00 pkhuong: I think in this case I'll stick with the C glue, since according to the docs it will accept UTF-8 out of the box that way. 23:53:17 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 23:53:29 accept how? SBCL's strings aren't char*. They're either octets with the 8th bit set to 0, or 32 bit code points. If you want to process bytes and work with utf-8 transparently, it's probably best to stick to octet vectors. 23:56:07 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 23:58:36 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:59:19 in the manual it says calling an sb-alien routine with a c-string parameter type automatically does format conversionfor the string to a given encoding