00:02:07 cades [~mac@114-32-245-7.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:49 masondesu [~textual@adsl-74-177-116-146.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:03 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:25 -!- cades [~mac@114-32-245-7.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:08:47 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:12:08 Denommus: then maybe you should write a method on the accessor to lazily compute it. You can use slot-boundp and slot-makunbound to detect when the value should be recomputed 00:12:45 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 00:14:42 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:48 -!- asedeno_work [asedeno@nat/google/x-hnnthrbsglmfjlgt] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 00:22:23 ISF_ [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has joined #lisp 00:23:53 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-194-214.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:26:30 asedeno_work [asedeno@nat/google/x-kharsfpshvhdudik] has joined #lisp 00:27:41 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:28:27 lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:06 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:30:08 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 00:31:38 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:32:59 I'm having the most strange error 00:34:09 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.181.69] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34:18 DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@120.154.181.69] has joined #lisp 00:35:04 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:51 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:35:58 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 00:37:39 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 00:38:21 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:40:39 univyrse [~univyrse@24-179-43-39.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:41:14 hi, sbcl is giving me errors about end of file, but I dont have eny eof files in any of the places is complaining about 00:41:31 even if I comment the entire file out, it just gives an error about EOF at position 0 00:41:37 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42:23 antgreen [~green@64.56.247.247] has joined #lisp 00:45:26 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:50 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:46:22 univyrse: maybe you could paste an example of what you are doing, and the error, in contexto? http://paste.lisp.org/new 00:46:47 im not pasting a 3k loc codebase, its a weird error thats not relevant to what im doing 00:47:09 tsetumel [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:22 i think something is unbalanced somewhere and sbcl is shitting itself about it without actually telling me where the misbalance happens 00:47:29 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:48:26 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 00:48:28 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 00:48:59 symbole` [~user@krlh-5f71f682.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:37 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:50:30 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:51:22 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:52:52 -!- symbole [~user@krlh-5f71cf09.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:59:56 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 01:00:43 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:58 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:39 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl20-201-136.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 01:05:05 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 01:06:49 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 01:06:59 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:08:31 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:08:59 -!- tsetumel [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:09:51 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-5-144.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:10:39 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:12:10 goddamnit i knew it was something simple 01:12:33 a defun line had gotten cloned at one point, and sbcl fell into trouble from there 01:12:56 it doesnt care where it is though, because it happens through block comments 01:13:18 and it will just move to the last function in the first spot of uncommented code, and say that theres an end of file there 01:13:36 idk wtf happened, but i got my lisp working again 01:13:39 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 01:14:07 i dont even know why i typed all that, i fucking hate more of you smug 3rd gen lispers 01:14:11 EOF errors generally mean that an expression wasn't finished. so you left a " there, or perhaps a ) or maybe you wrote ) as #\)... that sort of stuff 01:14:15 -!- univyrse [~univyrse@24-179-43-39.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:14:30 mkay 01:21:18 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 01:23:19 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:24:41 bananagram [~bot@pool-108-56-161-155.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:44 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:26:41 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:48 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 01:28:03 -!- ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:30:08 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:31:06 tsetumel [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has 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has joined #lisp 01:45:43 seafax [~70@184.88.127.227] has joined #lisp 01:45:43 -!- seafax [~70@184.88.127.227] has quit [Changing host] 01:45:43 seafax [~70@unaffiliated/seafax] has joined #lisp 01:46:04 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 01:47:04 -!- tsetumel [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:48:38 -!- djuber [~user@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:59 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:51:56 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55:49 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:58 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:59:23 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:47 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 02:04:56 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:05:12 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:10:54 Hi, how to specify something to happen every time after an ASDF system is loaded? 02:11:19 -!- symbole` [~user@krlh-5f71f682.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11:21 for example I want to change the default of cl-who:*prologue* 02:11:59 want to do (setq cl-who:*prologue* "") 02:12:15 every time after when :cl-who is loaded, 02:12:16 a 02:12:17 tank0 [~user@adsl-75-21-81-155.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:31 and if I make a monolithic fasl, this setting should end up in the fasl too 02:12:42 with (asdf:operate 'asdf/bundle:fasl-op :cl-who) 02:12:46 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl20-201-136.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:11 :after method? 02:13:24 put the after method where? 02:13:30 I don't want to modify cl-who.asd 02:13:35 SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 02:14:38  looking up asdf after methods ... 02:16:32 ikki [~ikki@187.208.186.251] has joined #lisp 02:17:02 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:17:12 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:17:14 Oh I guess I define my own custom-cl-who.asd 02:17:31 which :depends-on (:cl-who) 02:17:50 then has a single file component with a file to do my custom settings 02:18:45 is that overkill? 02:21:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.186.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:21:40 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@d110-33-247-154.bla801.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:21:46 Silly question: When working with clunit, assert-equals doesn't seem to evaluate s-exprs given as the expected value. Is there a way to make that happen? 02:22:38 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 02:24:51 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 02:26:00 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:26:16 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:09 fantastic boston lisp dinner 02:28:30 Xach: past tense? 02:29:16 indeed 02:29:51 agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:01 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:f7e0:75b9:3d8b:8fd0:5c29] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:30:07 esr: I mentioned your project, and Marc Battyani (who specializes in such things) said "Tell him I can compile it to fpga if he likes" 02:37:55 He means from Lisp, I assume :-) 02:38:37 Yes. He has a CL-to-FPGA pipeline. 02:40:04 OK, I'm impressed. 02:40:16 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:18 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-74-177-116-146.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:42:49 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:f7e0:75b9:3d8b:8fd0:5c29] has joined #lisp 02:42:55 kmb [~kmb@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:43:35 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 02:45:14 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:45:16 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@82.43.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 02:45:43 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.202.208] has joined #lisp 02:47:32 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:48:53 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Quit: z____z] 02:51:03 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 02:57:33 -!- kmb [~kmb@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kmb] 02:59:03 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 02:59:05 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 02:59:14 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:59:15 -!- tank0 [~user@adsl-75-21-81-155.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:59:17 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 03:00:47 cades [~mac@42.0.64.170] has joined #lisp 03:01:44 -!- cades [~mac@42.0.64.170] has quit [Client Quit] 03:12:45 -!- rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13:38 SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 03:15:39 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:06 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:17:14 -!- forgottenwizard [~ZombieChi@108-222-198-111.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 03:17:56 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:18:21 ZombieChicken [~ZombieChi@108-222-198-111.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:01 -!- rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dkxkikgcqvcicype] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:20:13 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:20 -!- ZombieChicken [~ZombieChi@108-222-198-111.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:20:20 rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oxyishfwamduloyj] has joined #lisp 03:20:26 -!- mal_ [mal@ks24170.kimsufi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:21:35 ZombieChicken [~ZombieChi@108-222-198-111.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:25 forgottenwizard [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 03:22:40 -!- ZombieChicken [~ZombieChi@108-222-198-111.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:22:47 -!- forgottenwizard is now known as ZombieChicken 03:23:06 forgottenwizard [~ZombieChi@108-222-198-111.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:39 Artheist [~quassel@modemcable051.243-130-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:33:14 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:36:27 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:37:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.251.217] has joined #lisp 03:37:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.251.217] has quit [Changing host] 03:37:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:37:19 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:43:36 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 03:46:46 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:47:35 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:58:55 hey guys, anyone completely bored wanna help test some basic functionality of my new open source game? http://tactics.ahungry.com/play/ - hoping server wont flake on me this time :) - relevant to lisp because most of it is written in it hehe 03:59:21 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:44 loke [~loke__@c-4957e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 04:00:25 rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has joined #lisp 04:03:07 too bad my boy went to bed already and i have to finish refactoring code... 04:05:08 -!- bananagram [~bot@pool-108-56-161-155.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:07:27 gendl: lisp code? 04:07:36 of course 04:07:59 gendl: good 04:11:15 Xach: indeed! 04:12:19 agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:27 haha 04:12:39 Xach: stupid me didn't realize that was marc battyani! 04:15:16 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:16:41 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:f7e0:75b9:3d8b:8fd0:5c29] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:17:36 xorp [~xorp@ec2-50-16-219-79.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 04:20:49 -!- hlavaty`` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:21:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:21:45 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 04:23:47 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 04:24:19 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 04:25:43 teggi [~teggi@113.172.59.16] has joined #lisp 04:28:49 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 04:34:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:38:32 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 04:38:54 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:14 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:44:54 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:49:31 -!- DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@120.154.181.69] has quit [Quit: Bye] 04:50:00 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.181.69] has joined #lisp 04:50:40 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:52:28 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:00:09 dekuked [~dekuked@64.13.64.46] has joined #lisp 05:03:50 sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:51 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:06:10 gendl: an :after method on perform load-op for the system could work 05:06:20 though -- why not just do it in the last file of the system? 05:06:39 you can use the inline-method syntax for those functions, as in 05:06:54 (defsystem ... :perform (load-op :after (o c) ...) 05:07:06 don't forget (declare (ignorable o c)) 05:07:26 bcos I want it to happen after any time e.g. cl-who is loaded 05:07:44 i don't want to have to keep track of what all systems I have which :depend-on :cl-who (there are like 3 or 4 of them) 05:08:00 don't forget (declare (ignorable o c)) 05:08:14 asdf-system-connections is your friend, too 05:08:27 ok i'll check it out. 05:08:39 definitely use it, in this case. 05:08:52 only use a recent version of a-s-c --- older versions suck 05:09:17 basically i need to be sure that after cl-who is loaded, but before start of compilation of the dependent system, those parameters are set. 05:09:30 because they are needed for correct compilation of dependent system 05:09:34 oh, before the start of compilation of the dependent system? 05:10:11 what I was doing was manually setting at the beginning of load of each dependent system, 05:10:27 but i would rather set something up in one place so that any time cl-who comes into the picture, 05:10:35 those params will be set as soon as it's done loading. 05:10:59 then it's better to have the dependent defsystem-depend-on something that defines a call-with-my-cl-who-prologue function that binds cl-who:*prologue* then use that as :around-compile hook. 05:11:23 I think that's the cleaner approach, the only one that will work despite a different system insisting on a different *prologue* 05:11:42 because, frankly, your prologue sucks and mine is vastly better. 05:12:51 ya i see.. i shouldn't break cl-who for other people who might load systems on top 05:13:12 well here's what I'm gonna do: 05:13:31 imma make my own system gendl-cl-who-wrapper 05:13:39 gendl-cl-who-wrapper.asd 05:13:44 which :depends-on cl-who 05:13:53 and contains a single file component 05:13:56 which does my settings 05:14:14 then i'll have my systems depend-on gendl-cl-who-wrapper instead of directly on cl-who. 05:14:51 if other systems want to use cl-who when gendl is loaded, they will have to deal with setting the params back to their defaults 05:15:07 which could cause trouble if their functions then call into gendl functions which assume my defaults 05:15:27 one other non-standard thing in gendl: 05:15:39 (sets *read-default-float-format* 'double-float) 05:15:46 (setq  ) 05:16:39 I discovered C-c C-x c in Slime, 05:16:47 followed by R on the connection to restart it 05:16:54 very handy when doing build and bootstrapping stuff 05:17:47 what if evil system A depends on gendl-cl-who-wrapper, something that undoes it, then the rest of gendl? 05:18:03 depending on which order things are loaded, it MAY or MAY NOT affect the prologue. 05:18:09 oh ya 05:18:40 ok ok i'll just do the setting at the beginning of each of my affected systems. 05:18:51 there's only 3, i guess i was getting a bit fanatical about this. 05:18:56 you could define your asdf:gdl source-file class and have it do the cl-who thing directly 05:19:12 or whatever 05:19:18 ohhhh now that's getting tricky 05:19:28 now the environment is going to depend on the file extension wow. 05:19:38 i think i'll back off from that for now 05:19:43 but mighty interesting 05:20:02 the .gdl extension hasn't really picked up steam yet, 05:20:09 everybody still used to typing just .lisp 05:20:17 :around-compile is your friend 05:20:28 got it. 05:20:42 nity nite 05:20:49 zzz 05:21:35 -!- Artheist [~quassel@modemcable051.243-130-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:06 tiglog [~topeak@123.114.120.140] has joined #lisp 05:24:44 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:24:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.150.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:25:52 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:27:09 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:29:46 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #lisp 05:30:51 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:34:03 -!- Guest41969 [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:34:29 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:35:39 asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has joined #lisp 05:45:30 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:46:40 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-34-78-123.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:47:00 Bike [~Glossina@71-34-78-123.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:08 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 05:47:21 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:26 XexonixXexillion [~LudvikGal@130.56.237.120] has joined #lisp 05:49:37 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.181.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:57:26 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.153.239.138] has joined #lisp 05:58:06 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.153.239.138] has quit [Client Quit] 06:02:12 squiddo [~user@secure.mediaonfire.com] has joined #lisp 06:02:25 momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573a0a.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:03:41 Noob help: http://paste.lisp.org/display/136032 06:03:52 Trying to come up with a pre-commit script. 06:04:26 Trying to figure-out how to exit properly to indicate a parsing error (for python). 06:04:47 If anyone has a mo', I'd appreciate some pointers. 06:05:06 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:19 what does the "shell" function return? 06:05:45 H4ns: the list of files about to be committed. 06:06:17 squiddo: isn't "shell" a function supplied by clisp? 06:06:23 H4ns: or the 'pycompile' line? 06:06:25 Yes. 06:06:39 so what, no way to get at the return value? 06:06:40 squiddo: ok. so what does it return? the exit status of the child process? 06:07:01 H4ns: yes 06:07:16 I think I need to collect the exit codes... 06:07:33 squiddo: fine. so try (unless (every #'zerop (mapcar ...)) (exit 1)) 06:07:48 H4ns: thank you. Will try that. 06:08:30 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.153.244.195] has joined #lisp 06:14:04 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@p54BF8CCA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:14:18 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8CCA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 06:16:59 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:17:02 sdemarre [~serge@144.90-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 06:17:53 -!- XexonixXexillion [~LudvikGal@130.56.237.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:19:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:21:27 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23:03 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.153.244.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:28:24 tro [~tro@14-202-8-87.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:28:58 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 06:30:11 Hey, I'm quite bored and figure it's a good time to learn a little more lisp, I've watched 5 or 6 of the SICP lectures (I don't use scheme) and was wondering if anyone knew of any resources that stand out above the rest. 06:30:36 I'm not looking for anything in particular, just an idea of what's around. 06:30:45 minion: pcl? 06:30:45 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 06:31:37 tro: probably "gentle introduce into symbolic computation" 06:31:45 I second Bike's comment 06:31:58 asvil: it's too gentle 06:32:11 asvil: it takes several chapters before they get to, you know, programming 06:32:38 PCL is really the one that is significantly better than anything else, for a person who knows programming but does not know Lisp 06:33:13 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1571.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:19 ok, then cltl2ed 06:33:23 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 06:34:29 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 06:34:40 agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:21 asvil: I have that one, and I have read it until it's falling apart. It's still nothing I'd recommend for someone being new to Lisp 06:35:53 I've started reading it now, but I do already know a bit of lisp, enough to do what I could in most other languages. Would it still be a good book, I've tallied up roughly 7 months of lisp use (Using it at max 4-5 hours a week). 06:36:27 tro: land of lisp is good 06:37:04 tro: you'll probably be skimming over sections then, but still good to read. 06:37:10 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:37:12 tro: or PAIP? 06:37:55 -!- sdemarre [~serge@144.90-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:38:38 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.202.208] has left #lisp 06:38:48 i did a few chapter of SICP first when i started learning lisp, then tried PCL but never got far into it... the one that really clicked with me was Land of Lisp, and now i'm going through PAIP. will probably hit SICP again sometime in the near future. 06:39:58 I'll try to get my hands on all 3, and keep to pcl for the time being. Thanks for the prompt responses! 06:43:24 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:45:07 After that, you can start on AMOP 06:46:06 ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:27 Remember that SICP doesn't teach lisp -- it teaches programming. 06:46:56 It just happens to use a subset of scheme to do that. 06:47:09 So, be wary of using it as a lisp book. 06:50:40 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 06:54:23 -!- momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573a0a.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:56:15 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 06:56:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.182] has joined #lisp 06:56:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.182] has quit [Changing host] 06:56:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:57:59 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 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has joined #lisp 08:13:57 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.52.122] has joined #lisp 08:14:01 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 08:14:22 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:16:23 ck_ [~ck@dslb-188-097-129-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:30 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:18:52 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20:02 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl20-201-136.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20:56 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:22:54 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:26:16 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:581b:f305:5b5c:f7ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:28:07 dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:28:23 netfrog [~ilya@line106-24.adsl.actcom.co.il] has joined #lisp 08:28:29 -!- dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 08:31:24 bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 08:31:54 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:34:15 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:34:31 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:34:31 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:34:31 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:34:36 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:37:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:38:54 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:39:21 ;Good morning! 08:39:42 morning 08:42:57 Howdy 08:43:28 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.120.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:43:38 SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 08:45:12 -!- SeanTAllen [uid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-djizzgmxyexpzobq] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:45:15 -!- Gurragchaa [uid6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iegqtokekcwxscdd] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:45:27 -!- gensym [~timo@85.158.178.76] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:45:35 -!- netfrog [~ilya@line106-24.adsl.actcom.co.il] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:45:36 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-mefmxdxkeenquqsl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:45:46 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 08:45:48 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-nhfdnbjlatepfwxj] has joined #lisp 08:45:54 gensym [~timo@85.158.178.76] has joined #lisp 08:46:05 Gurragchaa_ [uid6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zpnboialjdxeeeyw] has joined #lisp 08:46:06 SeanTAllen [uid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mruyzgwykgdipfrv] has joined #lisp 08:47:36 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:48:34 -!- RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-64-79-59-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:48:48 netfrog [~ilya@line106-24.adsl.actcom.co.il] has joined #lisp 08:49:51 -!- netfrog [~ilya@line106-24.adsl.actcom.co.il] has left #lisp 08:49:56 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 08:50:02 netfrog [~ilya@line106-24.adsl.actcom.co.il] has joined #lisp 08:52:07 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:52:54 test 08:53:13 test reply :) 08:54:18 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 08:56:58 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-019-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:06 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-121-212-130-141.lns10.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bye] 08:59:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:59:42 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Quit: z____z] 09:01:17 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.52.122] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:01:35 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:05:25 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:08:05 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:36 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 09:11:19 Good to hear from momo-reina that Land of Lisp has some "Haha!" included. 09:13:42 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:38 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:15:50 Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-39.isr.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 09:17:55 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:24:30 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 09:26:12 hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 09:29:36 -!- ck_ [~ck@dslb-188-097-129-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:33:00 ck_ 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connection] 10:56:09 pegu [~user@cF469BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:16 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:26 MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:02:41 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:03:22 leo2007 [~leo@166.111.52.7] has joined #lisp 11:03:25 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 11:04:01 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:04:35 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:05:08 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:05:23 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:06:27 -!- leo2007 [~leo@166.111.52.7] has quit [Client Quit] 11:06:56 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.244.146] has joined #lisp 11:08:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:08:36 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.244.146] has quit [Client Quit] 11:11:10 Is gsll my best bet to subtract matrices, aside from implementing my own method? 11:11:20 -!- ck_ [~ck@dslb-188-097-129-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:43 I'm using Antik/GSLL to obtain eigenvalues 11:13:44 SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 11:16:12 Kenjin: An eigenvalue solver perhaps ;) 11:16:25 :P 11:16:46 gsll has (gsll:eigenvalues) 11:17:08 I was using foreign-arrays and gsll 11:17:12 -!- MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz 11:17:25 but the call to eigenvalues was not returning consistent results 11:17:29 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:17:40 I use matlisp as a convenient wrapper around BLAS and LAPACK. 11:19:09 (and mostly SVD without a care when I want eigenvalues ;) 11:20:21 whitout a care? 11:21:20 It's probably horribly inefficient. I have a huge machine and patience ;) 11:21:33 ah! 11:21:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:21:49 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 11:22:07 pkhuong: may I ask you to take a look at my code to see if its sane? :P 11:23:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:24:10 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:24:37 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 11:25:05 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:08 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@70-91-193-41-BusName-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:26:00 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-172.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:26:05 I've never used GSL(L). 11:26:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-172.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:27:20 I just call a function to subtract matrices and a call to eigenvalues 11:27:23 https://gist.github.com/jsmpereira/5160610 11:27:42 the rest is in grid package, also in antik 11:27:58 pardon possible poor style 11:29:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:29:24 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:30:00 Kenjin: did you swap the arguments in laplacian-matrix? caveat lector: I haven't worked with eigen stuff in ages. 11:30:35 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 11:31:02 pkhuong: not knowingly at least :P 11:31:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:31:20 I'm very (very) new to eigen stuff 11:32:22 I compute the adj matrix, then a diag matrix from the vector sum 11:32:34 then diag - adj 11:32:51 and try to get eigenvalues from that 11:34:17 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:34:56 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 11:36:04 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:36:52 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 11:38:03 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:38:54 -!- MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz 11:40:03 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:41:18 -!- az [~andre@kettu.znaider.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 11:41:22 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:41:43 az [~andre@kettu.znaider.de] has joined #lisp 11:44:56 fsvehla [~fsvehla@chello084112185050.3.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 11:46:34 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.208] has joined #lisp 11:49:37 Its weird that (gsll:eigenvalues) sometimes returns a vector filled with crazy values 11:49:52 A acceptable return value is #m(0.000000000000000d0 3.000000000000001d0 0.000000000000000d0 3.000000000000000d0) 11:51:52 squiddo` [~user@secure.mediaonfire.com] has joined #lisp 11:52:23 pkhuong: https://gist.github.com/jsmpereira/5160610#comment-798151 11:52:49 something weird going on with the foreign array maybe? 11:53:45 kmb [~kmb@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:54:05 -!- squiddo [~user@secure.mediaonfire.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:56:36 did you initialize it? 11:57:54 -!- v [~v@61.173.101.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:59:44 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@chello084112185050.3.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 12:02:48 -!- davorb [davor@mer.df.lth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:04:43 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:05:52 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:06:37 -!- kmb [~kmb@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kmb] 12:07:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:08:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:10:38 v [~v@199.68.198.120] has joined #lisp 12:12:21 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:47 stassats`: Thanks. Bummer. I had set_zero, but removed it to try something and forgot about it :/ 12:13:43 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-57-45.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:13:47 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 12:13:53 davorb [davor@mer.df.lth.se] has joined #lisp 12:14:39 stassats`: I still have the same issue though 12:17:45 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:17:46 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:51 clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:17:53 -!- v [~v@199.68.198.120] has quit [Quit: ] 12:18:11 hi 12:18:48 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.244.146] has joined #lisp 12:20:04 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:22:05 -!- finnrobi [~robb@notlupus.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:22:40 finnrobi [~robb@notlupus.info] has joined #lisp 12:23:50 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:23:57 hydan [90a0e235@gateway/web/freenode/ip.144.160.226.53] has joined #lisp 12:28:06 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:14 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 12:32:41 -!- squiddo` [~user@secure.mediaonfire.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:45 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:38:13 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:08 cades [~mac@220-132-102-213.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:12 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:02 bitonic [~user@dyn1220-28.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:43:06 mutley89 [~mutley89@host86-164-166-130.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:00 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 12:45:28 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 12:45:39 Is cl-launch the definitive shell integration utility? Or is there something better? 12:45:44 MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:46:00 asdf-driver contains all you need in recent versions 12:46:15 I don't know if those are already shipped by default in Quicklisp 12:46:51 asdf-driver is called somehow differently now 12:47:10 I've seen something about uiop but didn't really believe it 12:47:19 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 12:47:35 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:47:51 right, uiop, the best name since poiu 12:47:56 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:48:25 asdf and uiop. that's all it takes to look serious 12:48:34 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@host86-164-166-130.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:48:36 xcvb and asdf share the third place 12:49:08 given that "POJO" got to be "perfectly serious", "poiu" can too 12:49:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:49:27 segv- [~mb@dslb-094-223-002-068.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:30 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:49:42 i would have preferred yuio, though 12:49:55 why-you-ah-oh 12:50:10 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755672.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:23 stassats`: not for everyone 12:50:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:50:57 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:51:45 soon they will run out of letters on the keyboard, and we will be graced with 1234 and 9876 12:52:20 print-screen-scroll-lock-pause/break 12:52:21 To the condition of (setf *read-base* 2) 12:53:12 pageup-pagedown is a good name for an ebook reader 12:53:33 stassats`: I think you would get a lawsuit from apple 12:54:13 some automaker is already using "shift_" in their ads 12:54:23 keyboards, an unlimited source of marketing and branding 12:55:11 and the beatles were using "Das Keyboard" 12:56:40 sabayonuser2 [~sabayonus@14.20.11.244] has joined #lisp 12:56:50 -!- sabayonuser2 is now known as hyoung 12:57:29 (setf *ogamita* (make-instance 'pope)) 12:58:16 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:00:31 -!- cades [~mac@220-132-102-213.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:00:41 mutley89 [~mutley89@host86-164-166-130.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:01:01 Thra11 [~thrall@46.208.6.84] has joined #lisp 13:01:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:02:01 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:02:43 MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:06:30 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:09:38 stassats`: What's a terse way to produce a string with 64 #\xs? (fill (make-string 64) #\x) is all I can think of so far. 13:09:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:10:02 *Xach* couldn't find a good format approach 13:10:38 (coerce #64(#\x) 'string) 13:11:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:11:44 one character less 13:11:54 (if you remove spaces) 13:11:59 That's a good one. 13:12:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:13:47 SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 13:13:54 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@host86-164-166-130.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:14:03 admitedly much more verbose: (make-string 64 :initial-element #\x) 13:14:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-172.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:14:58 (format()"~64@{x~}"1) is shorter 13:15:36 (format()...) is a very cute trick. 13:15:42 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 13:16:21 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:20 oh boy, is there something wrong with the star constellation that makes everyone count characters lately? 13:17:41 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:17:48 I have to pay by the byte. 13:17:53 i don't count, i align them vertically and see what's shorter 13:18:34 H4ns: give me a break, i've only got 72 columns on these punch cards :) 13:19:02 Is there a general way for every *call *to a defmacro defined macro to evaluate arbitrary code at any point? 13:19:11 (format()"~64{x~}"1) works on sbcl, but it's not portable 13:19:24 clhs *macroexpand-hook* 13:19:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_mexp_h.htm 13:20:53 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.146.194.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:21:37 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:02 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 13:22:03 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 13:22:11 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:59 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:23:19 ccl wants (format nil "~64{x~}" '(1)) 13:23:44 dim: nope, (format()"~64@{x~}"1) 13:23:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:24:18 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:24:30 true, works too 13:25:34 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:25:50 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:00 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-93-176.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:15 cades [~mac@42.0.108.198] has joined #lisp 13:28:54 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:29:11 masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:29:46 mutley89 [~mutley89@host86-164-166-130.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:30:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:32:31 a clever, but long way: (format()"~34r"(1-(expt 34 64))) 13:32:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:34:04 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 13:34:44 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-151-078.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:27 -!- cades [~mac@42.0.108.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:38:37 a really convoluted and long way: (map 'string 'append #64(()) '#1=(#\x . #1#)) 13:38:37 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:39:07 s/append/nconc/ 13:39:27 or "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" 13:39:36 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:39:45 H4ns: but it's still shorter than this 13:39:46 MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:39:59 which is only 4 chars ( C-u 6 4 x ) 13:40:05 stassats`: but _just_ in terms of character count. 13:40:21 H4ns: apparently that's what's counted for the billing here 13:40:31 dim: *shrug* 13:40:36 cades [~mac@42.0.108.198] has joined #lisp 13:40:43 14:17 I have to pay by the byte. 13:40:44 well, "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" would probably compress better 13:40:55 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:41:07 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:07 but it would be harder to find out how many x's there are 13:41:18 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:41:18 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 13:41:20 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has joined #lisp 13:41:42 C-M-SPC C-= :) 13:41:53 H4ns: C-M-space M-= 13:41:55 well, M-=, sorry 13:41:57 oh, damn 13:42:01 jinx? 13:42:07 let me know when you've got an agreement, ok? :) 13:42:09 "xxx..." compresses by gzip to 30 bytes, (format()"~64@{x~}"1) to 46 bytes 13:42:16 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.39.241] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 13:42:16 \o/ 13:42:21 gzip hasn't been invented yet. 13:42:43 sz0 [~user@212.156.129.218] has joined #lisp 13:43:49 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 13:44:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:44:29 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279585004.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:43 and 47 vs 67 by bzip2 13:45:01 (format()"~64@{x~}"1) turns out even longer than a literal string in bzip2 13:45:20 but i assume it'll be a different where combined with other code 13:45:24 -!- cades [~mac@42.0.108.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:45:46 *pkhuong* expects #[some unicode character] for gziped and unicode-encoded data. 13:45:52 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279585004.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:45:53 I'm watching your commits, stassats` ;) 13:46:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:46:20 cades [~mac@42.0.108.198] has joined #lisp 13:46:27 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-223-002-068.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:11 segv- [~mb@dslb-094-223-002-068.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:53 *stassats`* tries to figure whether that's good or bad 13:47:55 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:48:03 the winky smile is deceptive 13:48:43 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:45 Thra11_ [~thrall@20.178.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:11 Xach: so, what did you end up with? 13:49:15 and what are you really using it for? 13:49:52 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-93-176.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:50:08 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:50:33 top secret 13:50:50 -!- cades [~mac@42.0.108.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:50:59 hah, i didn't tell that all my snippets are under GPL, did i? 13:51:20 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@46.208.6.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:51:46 *Xach* rips off stassats` rubber mask to find pjb 13:52:02 or rather, the license which disallows secrets 13:52:17 because you can keep things secret under GPL 13:52:25 not under mye KGBL 13:52:32 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:52:39 ck_ [~ck@dslb-188-097-129-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:48 dim: uiop-2.32.5 is shipped with current Quicklisp. 13:53:17 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 13:53:42 cool 13:54:00 what I'm not sure of is what happens if a system :depends-on (:uiop) but all of asdf is already loaded 13:54:37 will it reload the separate uiop or recognize that uiop is already loaded via asdf.. (I'm about to find this out...) 13:54:45 MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:18 and depending on the version of asdf -- it's not super-likely that people will have asdf-2.32.5 at this point 13:55:22 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@host86-164-166-130.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:55:36 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1220-28.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:54 they will probably have 2.26 unless they manually upgraded or unless their implementation updated newer than 2.26 (e.g. Allegro is already on 2.31.9) 13:56:11 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:56:33 bitonic [~user@dyn1220-28.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:57:03 sz0` [~user@212.156.129.218] has joined #lisp 13:57:24 Also it will be interesting what will happen if a pre-built sanitized image contains uiop-2.32.5 but no asdf (ref http://gendl.blogspot.com/2013/03/saving-images-with-asdf3.html) 13:57:57 then the downstream user tries to load an _older_ asdf into that image 13:58:01 fun & games 13:58:29 the motto of ASDF 13:58:50 stassats: these are necessary growing pains. 14:00:13 agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:27 -!- sz0 [~user@212.156.129.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:02:28 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-223-002-068.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:02:31 -!- dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:02:40 Not all of them. 14:03:23 segv- [~mb@dslb-094-223-002-068.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:13 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:45 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 14:06:03 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-223-002-068.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:32 slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] 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[5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 14:54:44 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:55:04 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.136.205] has joined #lisp 14:55:42 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:31 slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has joined #lisp 14:57:45 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:57:47 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.47.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:58:37 ehu [~ehu@31.138.249.213] has joined #lisp 15:00:37 Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.188.91] has joined #lisp 15:00:40 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:06 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.136.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:03:30 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:03:30 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-uqweuciwfgbxznsz] has joined #lisp 15:05:38 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-llcyyccwfmumiojn] has joined #lisp 15:07:30 is there an up-to-date slime git mirror? 15:08:43 slyrus: https://github.com/antifuchs/slime 15:09:09 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 15:09:15 thanks 15:13:50 SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 15:14:03 Tordek_ [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-jrayhsizortdnpmn] has joined #lisp 15:14:07 *p_l* got a kickstarter idea - hire someone to document hu.dwim *in english* 15:14:09 -!- NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fywowlngpavynbdl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:14:09 -!- PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yuxhfpjgzscdtqft] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:14:09 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-dbxtbudesxpsgvpm] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:14:09 -!- rotty [rotty@yade.xx.vu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:14:09 -!- wyan 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seconds] 15:35:24 cades [~mac@114-32-245-7.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:41 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.206.209] has joined #lisp 15:36:26 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 15:38:40 -!- os_ [~chatzilla@37.48.195.136] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:39:37 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:26 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:43:50 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 15:45:25 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:45:47 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.37.227.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:45:53 CrazyEddy [~epitrocho@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 15:46:11 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.206.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:46:11 bananagram [~bot@pool-108-56-161-155.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:05 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.244.146] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 15:47:08 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:47:11 slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has joined #lisp 15:47:21 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:49:50 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:50:24 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:51:09 kmb [~kmb@rrcs-50-75-221-94.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:52:54 _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 15:53:23 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has joined #lisp 15:53:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:54:17 p_l: better kickstarter idea - a project to teach Hungarian to everybody. 15:54:18 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 15:54:31 hmmm 15:54:39 lol 15:55:02 -!- hyoung [~sabayonus@14.20.11.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:55:46 ogamita: we would still need the docs ;) 15:55:58 "Only in Budapest can a man enter a revolving door behind you and come out in front of you" 15:56:15 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:56:15 (some docstrings are in hungarian) 15:57:02 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:57:07 Who suggested learning Hungarian? Everybody knows that Chinese is the best definitely! 15:57:44 -!- kmb [~kmb@rrcs-50-75-221-94.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:57:49 PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cjilitlszzyqvgsw] has joined #lisp 15:58:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:59:55 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-239-237.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:02:02 Anyone using lisplab? 16:02:18 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:00 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: trivial-irc-0.0.4] 16:03:16 slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has joined #lisp 16:05:31 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07:08 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has joined #lisp 16:07:56 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:26 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-uqweuciwfgbxznsz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:10:45 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.1.162] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 16:11:13 kmb [~kmb@rrcs-50-75-221-94.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:12:00 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:20 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:50 slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has joined #lisp 16:13:54 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 16:13:54 SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 16:14:35 quicklisp 2013-03-12 detected 16:15:40 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.206.209] has joined #lisp 16:15:41 aiiee 16:15:47 lol 16:15:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:16:02 was it a secret too? 16:16:22 it's beta 16:16:36 isn't the whole quicklisp "beta"? 16:17:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:17:26 beta in the sense of "You beta use it if you want to get anything done" 16:17:31 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:18:06 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:18:47 Sebboh [~hobbes@fsf/member/Sebboh] has joined #lisp 16:19:27 I hear Xach is retiring QL next month, now that hes destroyed the CL package manager market. 16:19:39 hah 16:19:44 jasom: i like that definition 16:20:02 but stassats gets too much done to fit it 16:20:35 Hi. I have a question that isn't about lisp. But I see you folks as my elders, and I have a question for my computer science elders. May I? 16:20:37 ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.212] has joined #lisp 16:21:03 you may ask, o pilgrim 16:21:07 ask. the worst that can happen is that you will be excoriated. 16:21:37 But what an excoriation! Only the best from #lisp. 16:22:46 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has joined #lisp 16:23:10 Please don't ask. 16:24:04 I've heard it said that an LL parser can only parse LL grammars (or rather, the set of grammars that can be parsed by LL parsers are known as LL grammars). Now, how do I know if my data, X, is a member of that set? ...Or rather, that it can be .. described? by an LL grammar? 16:24:41 We've had a timing failure, Xach. :) 16:24:51 just make your data into s-exps, problem solved 16:25:30 stassats`: Maybe I should write a parser for my data. ;P 16:25:52 .oO(Now you have two problems..) 16:25:56 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:26:07 Sebboh: yes, use regexps to parse into s-exps 16:26:19 now you have 64 problems 16:26:34 The data happens to be HL7. Note: there is no such thing as "standard", "conformant", nor "compliant" HL7. 16:27:04 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.44.110] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 16:27:07 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:10 Sebboh: no left-recursion, no two rules with the same FIRST and no overlap of FIRST/FOLLOW for a rule. In particular that means you cant have  in the FIRST set of any rule 16:27:27 Sebboh: one solution would be to build a grammar for it an test the first and follow sets for single entries 16:27:29 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755672.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:27:38 What is epsilon in this context? 16:27:48 Sebboh: empty-string 16:27:50 Sebboh: the empty word 16:28:08 Sebboh: it's really easy to google that information 16:28:16 Sebboh: read the Dragon Books. There are rules, ie. an algorithm to determine if a grammar is in LL form. 16:28:34 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@hsi-kbw-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: sudden death] 16:28:48 Hm, second reference to these Dragon Books I've heard in as many days. 16:28:54 p_l: I don't get it... there's something available in non-english I don't know about? 16:28:59 (yes, I put an 's' to 'Books' since there are several editions :-)) 16:29:00 Sebboh: With good reason  16:29:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HL7#HL7_version_2.x looks like an exciting format 16:29:20 attila_lendvai: Maybe your English just looks like Hungarian ;) 16:30:13 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:18 Sebboh: the tiger book focuses a lot on LL(k) as well 16:30:23 "human-readable", maybe i'm not human enough 16:30:25 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:26 docstring in hungarian? heh, that surprises even me... :) I guess some of the model pieces that leaked into abstraction land from our projects (they are all hungaian, even the class/function names) 16:30:28 Bike, it's heritage is ASN.1. It's really flexible! We'd probably all be healthier by now if various industry forces wouldn't have got in the way. :) 16:30:32 attila_lendvai: Ez nekem kínai, as they say ;) 16:30:59 looks like multi-level csv 16:31:02 *jasom* went to a school with a strong history of using LL over LALR 16:31:28 -!- bananagram [~bot@pool-108-56-161-155.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:32:09 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:14 Sebboh: have a look at dsl-in-lisp too 16:32:25 hehh sellout-, is that google skill or you even have hu kbd installed? (rhetorical question... :) 16:32:28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FlHq_iiDW0 16:32:36 I tend to prefer LL too, personnaly. 16:32:57 dim, but like XML, there are "rules". Everybody hates hl7 at first glance, but somewhere deep in its history, there is a pure, elegant idea. In any case, thank you all for your time. The salient fact that I learned was that there is an algorithm to determine if my data is suitable for an LL parser. Good enough for today. 16:33:34 well I would have a look at the video I linked you, then at a lisp CSV parser and adapt those 16:33:35 Sebboh: at the same time, you can write a function to convert your grammar into a LL one. 16:33:55 I didn't see how the delimiters are escaped, if there's no escaping needs nor rules, split-sequence is all you need 16:34:11 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-239-237.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:23 for implementing grammars, see cl-lex and cl-yacc and smug 16:35:01 slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has joined #lisp 16:35:20 dim, yeah, I wasted the past couple of months thinking that what you are saying about this not being far from CSV was true. You ever open pandoras box and not even realize for a few months? :P 16:35:25 attila_lendvai: I have a custom layout that makes diacritics and stuff much easier (æ, etc.), plus thats my favorite idiom  I even have a graph: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s20/sh/b0e04c92-9043-44c5-9e7b-d198be5d50df/ecd9513cc1414a76305962f1057ef952 (no one seems to understand Chinese). 16:35:32 Sebboh: also things like ANTLR are LL(*) which can parse things that LL(k) parsers can't 16:35:48 erh, what? It's undecidable whether a language can be decided by an LL(k) grammar (trivially, via Rice's theorem). 16:35:52 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-239-237.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:35:57 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 16:36:57 jasom, yes, I'm looking at antlr. I haven't snuck any lisp into work yet. We're a java shop. :P (See my first statement in here, thanks and pardon me.) 16:36:58 You can test whether a given grammar is in LL(k) a given k. I don't think it's possible to determine that there is no such k. 16:37:38 sellout-: in emacs, it's just C-x 8 ' i 16:37:49 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:25 stassats`: `Opt-e i` with my keyboard layout. 16:38:31 Sebboh: what are you doing with HL7? 16:38:35 sellout-: TeX input method in emacs? 16:38:39 slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has joined #lisp 16:39:08 but with emacs, it's ½ easier, since it's built-in 16:39:25 ISF_ [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has joined #lisp 16:40:08 whartung, receiving health data from country health departments, etc. I work for a state gov't in the USA. Well, contract work. 16:40:22 s/country/county/ *sigh* 16:40:58 *attila_lendvai* is still amazed by all that emacs voodoo... 16:41:58 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42:08 Seriously, go here: http://www.mirthcorp.com/products/mirth-connect and download it. HL7 is what it does, it eats "crummy" HL7. Pumps it through a Javascript pipeline, free, open source, written in Java. Don't waste your time reinventing this wheel 16:42:57 -!- cades [~mac@114-32-245-7.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:43:21 attila_lendvai: hu.dwim.model got hungarian docstrings 16:43:47 *attila_lendvai* needs to run 16:43:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:43:54 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 16:43:54 slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has joined #lisp 16:44:03 whartung: I will not bind the good citizens of Nebraska into a relationship with such an expensive product. (I will use mirth for comparative testing. ;) ) 16:44:20 "Expensive"? 16:45:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:45:18 *slyrus* just flew over nebraska 16:46:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:47:25 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.170.32] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:47:28 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:48:36 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:13 -!- hydan [90a0e235@gateway/web/freenode/ip.144.160.226.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:49:46 -!- Sebboh [~hobbes@fsf/member/Sebboh] has left #lisp 16:50:55 breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:51:43 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.238.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:53:19 ikki [~ikki@187.208.238.12] has joined #lisp 16:53:24 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:54:06 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:55:18 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1220-28.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:56:09 mirth connect is free software. I've used it. http://www.mirthcorp.com/products/mirth-connect 16:56:51 cades [~mac@114-32-245-7.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:05 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 17:01:04 AeroNotix [~xeno@abop250.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:01:50 -!- Shozan is now known as SHODAN 17:03:24 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:03:39 slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has joined #lisp 17:05:04 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has joined #lisp 17:05:08 linse_ [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 17:05:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:06:01 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:21 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@12.130.118.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 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[~thrall@37.152.193.238] has joined #lisp 17:24:47 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has joined #lisp 17:25:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:26:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@77-234-89-96.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 17:26:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@77-234-89-96.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 17:26:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:26:50 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.206.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:27:17 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 17:27:45 NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ivlnkvpknlrrubgv] has joined #lisp 17:28:13 -!- cades [~mac@114-32-245-7.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:28:22 -!- ck_ [~ck@dslb-188-097-129-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:28:44 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 17:29:05 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:30:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:32:38 masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:11 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 17:33:40 -!- linse_ [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 17:33:44 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:01 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-39.isr.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:30 replcated [~user@static-241-143-171-68.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:43 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-223-128-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:35:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:36:42 -!- _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: #php] 17:36:54 _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 17:38:36 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-215.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:38:53 -!- zophy is now known as rms 17:39:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:39:23 -!- rms is now known as Guest97549 17:39:53 -!- Guest97549 is now known as zophy 17:42:20 w is the only letter of the alphabet with more than one syllable 17:43:31 zophy: what about ? 17:44:06 zophy: or  for that matter 17:44:22 jasom, don't talk with your mouth full 17:45:49 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:06 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:34 I'm just saying, the greeks gave us the term "alphabet" so if any alphabet has a claim to be "the alphabet" then I would suspect it's the greek one 17:47:54 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has joined #lisp 17:49:28 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-214-67-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:49:46 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.176.6.10] has joined #lisp 17:49:47 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.176.6.10] has quit [Changing host] 17:49:47 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:50:12 zophy: Please don't share such noise. 17:50:51 -!- tsetumel [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:51:46 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8CCA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:52:54 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-223-128-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:56:15 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8CCA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:59:08 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:00:28 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:34 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8CCA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:01:02 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 18:03:38 antgreen 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18:38:47 -!- ZombieChicken [~ZombieChi@108-222-198-111.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:39:04 -!- forgottenwizard is now known as ZombieChicken 18:40:34 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:09 -!- fightback [~david@163-116.199-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: I was watching my other computer for too long.] 18:41:28 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:42:19 masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:16 ASau [~user@46.115.38.154] has joined #lisp 18:47:06 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:07 whartung, i'm converting my company over to mirth right now 18:49:23 seb oh bummer 18:49:54 oh nice 18:50:07 i sure hope that person saw your note about mirth 18:50:14 hl7 sure is a crapshoot 18:51:06 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:52:00 -!- findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:52:20 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:42 yea it's a messy business 18:54:15 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-tuydzdqsqahuhdxt] has joined #lisp 18:54:54 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:54:58 -!- replcated [~user@static-241-143-171-68.axsne.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:41 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-139-113.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58:12 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-llcyyccwfmumiojn] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:12 routinely get customers sending sample hl7 messages for testing purposes with CR/LF, adamant that it's the standard way. then later when they actually send data through their client, it comes across with CR only, which actually is standard 19:00:38 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-sdteebjiqaxohles] has joined #lisp 19:00:45 it seems like such an important topic to screw up 19:00:53 what's hl7 ? 19:01:43 ozzloy: i'm dealing with x12n files mostly, and the amount of screwup that i see with those is enormous. 19:02:16 Fare, health level 7 19:02:22 ozzloy: even though validators and schema definitions are available, it seems to be common practice to just muddle through things until things work. 19:02:34 Fare, all your important medical information is sent around in this format 19:04:42 H4ns, x12n? 19:05:02 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g225057000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: restart] 19:05:03 ozzloy: that's the edi standard which is used in state healthcare in the us. 19:05:32 yea 19:05:32 zickzackv [~faot@g225057000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:05:39 x12 is also equally exciting 19:05:41 interesting. somehow i haven't come across this yet 19:05:52 is there a mirth like thing for x12n? 19:06:04 for when i do come across it, which i probably will 19:06:08 HL7 is a standard representation for electronic health care information Fare 19:06:10 as far as i understand, mirth can convert from and to x12n as well 19:06:27 excellent 19:06:38 so mirth is a mirthlike thing for x12n 19:06:54 mirth is mirth for x12n :) 19:07:30 pers [~user@c-24-126-147-71.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:46 well x12n is "XML" and all XML looks alike to Mirth prett much :0 19:07:47 :) 19:08:13 bbl 19:09:49 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.144.163] has joined #lisp 19:10:55 why are people ok with xml, but not s expressions 19:11:03 and javascript, but not lisp 19:11:21 *H4ns* is okay with either of that 19:11:22 give people s-expression, they will turn it into a mess just as quickly 19:13:06 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.185.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:13:13 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13:45 replcated [~user@static-241-143-171-68.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:00 stassats`, you're probably right 19:14:09 Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.172.0] has joined #lisp 19:14:40 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:15:42 hi, is there a way for asdf to specify a reader for particular file type without implementing subclass of source-file? 19:15:48 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:16:07 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.144.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:16:51 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 19:17:08 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:11 hmm, maybe defmethod perform :around ((o load-op) (c cl-source-file)) 19:18:35 why not change it in the file? 19:19:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:19:19 jsj [~johan@unaffiliated/jsj] has joined #lisp 19:19:31 -!- Trystam is now known as Tristam 19:19:43 i don't want to change the source files 19:19:54 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has joined #lisp 19:20:01 or what file do you mean? 19:20:11 the source file 19:20:23 why don't you want to change them? 19:20:45 Asgeir [~asgeir@sal63-1-82-243-96-129.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:07 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:21:15 because they are written in a funny language, i just want to pretend they are cl by defining reader and some macros 19:21:33 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:21:35 and there are too many of them 19:22:03 if they are not cl, why do you want to use cl-source-file for them? 19:22:58 because then they become cl-source-file (except the readtable) 19:23:23 they get compiled to fasls as usual 19:24:08 i may be dim, but why don't you subclass cl-source-file as funny-language-source-file and define a suitable load-op method to set up the reader appropriately? 19:25:23 yeah, i though there might be something easier; an around method with 'if' based on type should do 19:25:48 hlavaty: i don't see how subclassing would be hard, but you'll probably know 19:26:09 H4ns: are you the Yason maintainer ? 19:26:14 Asgeir: i am 19:26:21 i still need to setup the reader somewhere, no need for class 19:26:33 wouldn't an :around on load-op and cl-source-file do everything for all cl source files, including in other systems 19:26:56 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8CCA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:27:17 have you heard about any version/fork of Yason that has a condition hierarchy ? 19:27:25 Bike: You can specialize on the system as well. 19:27:25 Asgeir: no. 19:27:44 If not, I'm ok to try to do it. 19:28:21 Asgeir: sure, i'll gladly review. github pull requests are preferred. 19:28:29 -!- pers [~user@c-24-126-147-71.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:28:33 bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 19:28:39 ok 19:28:40 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-93-176.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:44 sellout-: but the cl-source-files of one system? 19:29:33 Bike: Mmm, I don't recall the function signatures of the top of my head. Maybe the system isnt a parameter *shrug* 19:30:48 -!- Eldariof93-ru [~CLD@pppoe-218-207-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 19:32:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:17 fightback [~david@163-116.199-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:34:03 Bike: (eql x (find-system 'system)) 19:34:04 -!- jonasac` is now known as jonasac 19:34:25 stassats`: but that's for loading the system as a whole, not its sources, i thought 19:34:48 it's for everything 19:36:24 there are also inline methods 19:36:48 but all that stuff turns your neat .asd into a fruit salad 19:37:16 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-10-241.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:43 yeah it just seems like subclassing would be a better idea 19:40:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:41:25 dekuked [~dekuked@64.13.64.46] has joined #lisp 19:45:01 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-gqyyphmvtrzsfzds] has joined #lisp 19:46:05 hello hlavaty 19:46:19 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:46:35 fe[nl]ix: hi 19:46:47 hlavaty: still in berlin ? 19:46:55 yeah 19:47:08 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:09 and you? 19:47:15 in two weeks 19:47:41 fe[nl]ix: found an appartment yet? 19:47:58 are you moving in here? 19:50:01 Ich hab' noch einen Koffer in Berlin 19:50:49 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:52:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:52:54 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 19:54:47 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:54:48 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:56:40 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:58:01 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8CCA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:58:43 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:59 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:00:17 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:03:13 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 20:04:13 hlavaty: yes 20:04:28 found a lisp job? 20:04:40 H4ns: I'll be staying in lichtblau's apartment for a few weeks 20:05:04 until I find a place of my own 20:05:07 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:07 hlavaty: I already have one 20:05:14 in berlin? 20:05:47 no, for a US company 20:06:21 ok 20:06:53 *jasom* has mixed feelings about Germany. On one hand there's the Guano Apes. On the other hand there's Schlager 20:07:42 just don't mention the war 20:07:53 stassats`: I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it 20:08:06 fe[nl]ix: maybe we could merge iolib this year? ;-) 20:08:07 cajetanus [~user@public-gprs611160.centertel.pl] has joined #lisp 20:08:47 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:55 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has joined #lisp 20:10:17 Last time I was in Germany, the hit song was "Männer sind Schweine" by Die Ärtze 20:10:57 last time i was in germany, i didn't pay attention to songs 20:10:57 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-gqyyphmvtrzsfzds] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:11:02 Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-249-241.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:57 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 20:15:27 dioxirane [~GZK@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 20:17:05 hlavaty: that would be good 20:17:07 SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 20:17:10 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:34 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 20:19:29 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:19:42 -!- dioxirane [~GZK@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:19:50 -!- Asgeir [~asgeir@sal63-1-82-243-96-129.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:21:04 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:21:52 mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.21] has joined #lisp 20:21:52 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.21] has quit [Changing host] 20:21:52 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:22:41 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1571.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:26:38 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: rpg] 20:33:01 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abod47.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:35:48 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:36:07 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abop250.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:37:14 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 20:37:46 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:58 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-113-91.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:02 -!- masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:39:41 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:49 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:39:54 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:45 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:46 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:41:19 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-237-162.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:41:25 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:38 drewc: short little video of my new simpleanimation/scripting system 20:41:49 http://blocky.io/2x0ng-towns.webm 20:42:01 sort of an Intellivoice experiment 20:42:08 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:42:53 dto: do you know Planet Cute as seen at http://www.lostgarden.com/2007/05/dancs-miraculously-flexible-game.html 20:43:22 oh i haven't seen these Dim ! nice 20:43:50 I didn't look at your current video, but I seem to recall that your games would benefit from more advanced graphics :) 20:44:43 hey you might be interrested into that project I have in mind, btw 20:44:44 dto: is that a new one? 20:45:04 dim: hehe i have several things to say 20:45:19 the idea is to develop a game to help kids learn programming, where they have to solve puzzles by using CL and some API to move a bot' or something and collect things, etc 20:45:20 Fare: it's a rough draft of an interactive tutorial for the game, with a couple goofy ai's thrown in 20:45:50 so I would like to have a main screen for the game and a side or bottom editor like frame for the interactions 20:45:55 dim: this game is deliberately created with a retro pixel 80s aesthetic 20:46:06 ahah, great :) 20:46:23 as I said, I didn't even have a look before sending the link :) 20:46:26 the art is therefore an exact pixel for pixel representation of the gameworld. there is no external reality to which my pixels must approximate in terms of visual realism. 20:47:11 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 20:47:14 *Fare* is eagerly awaiting Realm Of Racket 20:47:38 it does look very much like Adventure. 20:48:03 Asgeir [~asgeir@sal63-1-82-243-96-129.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:05 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:48:58 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:49:32 dto: do you think block.io could be a good lib to build my project with? 20:50:15 Fare: that fellow i helped get Racket + Fluxus working, has been doing lots of racket/fluxus experiments. i bet he'll have something soon. 20:50:36 dim: i hope so. i need to get proper documentation written, and licensing sorted out. 20:51:05 when you want a tester feel free to ping me :) 20:51:12 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:51:26 dim: you can play the game if you want. (not that scene but, the current release is pretty playable) 20:51:41 I'm so bad at anything graphical and using a mouse that I would experience any and all short comings you might still have :) 20:51:51 sahahaha! 20:51:52 great :) 20:52:05 -!- clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 20:52:07 Bike: yes Adventure, not a bad analogy at all 20:52:14 i'm attempting to mash up several atari carts 20:52:48 Adventure and Centipede are I think the only Atari games I've played. 20:55:21 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:56 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 20:57:56 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:58:57 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 20:59:42 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:03:38 happy (format nil "~$" CL:PI) day! 21:04:30 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abod47.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 21:06:07 happy http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/3/c/c/3cca05380343cb6f78d776d5e40b3a9d.png day! 21:06:46 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-10-241.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:07:56 What, no /2 proponents? 21:08:08 chrisdone [~chrisdone@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has joined #lisp 21:09:51 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 21:11:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:37 sellout: I treat the tau vs pi debate as I treat the debate about which side should the toilet paper roll face. I have an opinion, but it doesn't really matter :) 21:13:26 -!- fightback [~david@163-116.199-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 21:13:29 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.189.247] has joined #lisp 21:14:04 -!- dekuked [~dekuked@64.13.64.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:14:13 Bike, Fare i'm trying to make something kid-friendly too, my nephew has been play-testing 21:16:07 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.172.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:16:41 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:17:07 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:09 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:14 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:43 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 21:18:41 Fare: in the early 80s my brother and I used to create character-cell based animations using all the various vt100 escape codes on an old DEC micro , with a vt150 attached 21:18:46 what's fluxus? 21:18:48 the robots looked very much like this 21:18:59 fluxus is some kind of scheme used for livecoding, i think 21:19:03 Fare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluxus_%28programming_environment%29 21:20:58 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:21:36 -!- replcated [~user@static-241-143-171-68.axsne.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:23:39 daniel [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:03 -!- daniel is now known as Guest72053 21:24:23 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.6.186] has joined #lisp 21:24:29 -!- Guest72053 [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has left #lisp 21:24:51 daniel` [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:22 -!- netfrog [~ilya@line106-24.adsl.actcom.co.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:25:37 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.151] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:26:26 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:38 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.189.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:26:58 -!- cajetanus [~user@public-gprs611160.centertel.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:32:54 20002013! http://ircbrowse.net/browse/lisp \(^__ ^)/ 21:33:54 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8CCA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:36:50 ISF_ [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has joined #lisp 21:40:53 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:f7e0:7914:a38f:fe55:4727] has joined #lisp 21:41:39 chrisdone: now if you could fix the css and remove all that padding :) 21:42:12 is there a way to say to compile-file which package it should use when it starts compiling? I.e. so that I don't have to write in-package at the begining of the file 21:42:38 bind *package*? 21:43:02 is that supposed to work? maybe i'm doing something wrong 21:43:09 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has joined #lisp 21:43:39 fe[nl]ix: which padding? 21:44:01 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:45:44 _veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:44 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:45:44 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 21:45:56 agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:32 -!- zacts [~lcc@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:47:11 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:47 has anyone tried benchmarking how many request/s they could pull from (real) CL web app code? 21:49:21 like benchmarking a ping/pong of hunchentoot? otherwise the database is gonna negate any overhead of the language right? 21:49:43 s/negate/eclipse 21:49:58 chrisdone: nice! 21:50:47 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 21:50:49 i dunno, character i/o is pretty slow. 21:50:54 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:50:57 chrisdone: I was thinking with non-trivial example, but with database wait time clearly marked 21:51:20 waiting for the DB is fine, if we are serving another request during it 21:51:25 madnificent: \o/ thanks 21:51:32 pushing DB transaction count to limit is fine too ;) 21:51:37 p_l: ah, ok 21:53:25 since I'd push static serving onto nginx or similar, it's less of an issue, but it would be interesting thing to try pushing as much value from small server in face of possibly *very* big traffic 21:54:40 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:19 p_l: and also that would be interesting to observe its memory usage over time, esp. in 'real' web apps. e.g. would the GC kick in time before it starts swapping or would it be jerky, or would it not even be an issue, etc. 21:55:26 chrisdone: the padding between a line and the next one 21:56:21 chrisdone: it's more than the height of the single letters 21:56:38 fe[nl]ix: ah, ok. the line-height's defined by bootstrap's css. i was thinking about shrinking it a bit too. maybe also add a 'infinite scroll' checkbox so you don't have to click 'next'. i can't remember how ircbrowse use to handle that. was it just showing a whole day or something? 21:56:46 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:34cf:4598:704:bf11] has joined #lisp 21:57:18 chrisdone: that too 21:58:49 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 22:00:49 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.133.85] has joined #lisp 22:00:50 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:24 moai [~m@141.70.23.87] has joined #lisp 22:04:42 basically I had the idea of "can I replace Google Reader well enough for a 10$/month server to bring noticeable revenue?" :) 22:06:17 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-75.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:24 hahaha. i -knew- there was some relation with the recent google reader clones that were all failing due to the traffic =p 22:07:13 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.211.139.62] has joined #lisp 22:07:49 well, none of them were mine :) 22:08:23 http://blog.iron.io/2013/03/how-we-went-from-30-servers-to-2-go.html <--- this is another motivation 22:10:44 p_l: i guess you're one of a thousand geeks who had that thought today 22:11:21 p_l: the fact that all reasonable open source rss aggregators are written in php made me bury that thought. 22:12:01 so.."Go is faster than Ruby"? is that what I'm grokking from this? 22:12:55 well just use gwene.org for RSS and be done 22:13:30 H4ns: probably the scalability issue is what the 'rss feed service' product is all about. the software as an idea is just show some feeds and know when i've read entries plus bells+whistles. add thousands of users with a hundred feeds each and the open source php crap probably doesn't scale? 22:13:38 dim: "with a news reader" right 22:13:56 whartung: no, it's "ok, so a compiled binary managed this and that, let's see how good can we get with CCL/SBCL" 22:14:04 what you're not *already* using emacs/gnus for NNTP? :) 22:14:22 chrisdone: right. and doing a real product is not something that i'd want to try in my free time while trying to attract users into the php crap. 22:14:37 dim: nntp. right. back in the day. 22:14:42 heh 22:14:45 I know 22:14:48 dim: a "HTTP 500 Crapserver/PHP Overloaded" is faster than Gnus. 22:14:55 "What? This has been done before??" 22:14:58 :D 22:15:15 p_l: I don't think so, but well 22:15:26 comp.lang.lisp aparently is only NNTP 22:15:35 I mean still is 22:15:37 Xach: it might be more efficient to redirect noise shares to #lispcafe, which is made for that. 22:15:40 one of the last remaining :) 22:15:41 *p_l* speaks as someone whose really meager setup managed to require running a separate Emacs instance just for Gnus, at which point he said "Screw it" 22:16:13 -!- brown` [user@nat/google/x-zuvkmirpysgyavam] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:30 I haven't used an nntp reader in years -- and that was Outlook Express, and before that it was nn 22:16:36 Xach: you mentioned character I/O being rather slow, care to elaborate? I remember fusss' stories of speeding up Hunchentoot back in the day 22:16:52 whartung: same here. oe was pretty effective as the last news reader that i felt like using. 22:17:12 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:19 now I just lurk on google groups and don't post :/ 22:17:57 I don't know enough about this use case that made Go so much faster than Ruby -- goes the Ruby GC just suck that hard? 22:18:25 whartung: probably they still ran MRI 1.8 22:18:30 not the YARV-based 1.9 22:18:33 p_l: just that representing characters in 32 bits and strings in vectors of 32-bit characters can take some time to encode and decode. 22:18:46 whartung: there are many things that make/made ruby suck in server situations. 22:18:52 ok 22:18:53 p_l: perhaps there are some ways to make it relatively fast. i don't think e.g. sbcl makes any special effort in that direction. 22:19:10 Xach: only for ASCII strings ;) 22:19:12 and even then, 1.9 is pretty slow... though the shocker to me was that full RoR stack with Ruby 1.8 was actually faster than equivalent framework in PHP 22:19:19 I've never used it much, not really a critic of it, more not a fan of rails as I don't care for frameworks with deep Black Magic. 22:19:23 pkhuong: that should be enough for anybody! 22:19:31 writing any MVP apps ready for user consumption and getting them online is super cool. i have a kind of personal pact to pump out at least a few apps inbetween my obsessive tooling and fussing. otherwise my meticulous language and tool choices are moot if i'm not getting shit done 22:19:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.238.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:20:10 Xach: It depends on what you're doing. I found (e.g.) with-output-to-string to be much faster than with-output-to-octets from alexandria 22:20:44 jasom: what are the encoding differences there? 22:20:58 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:20:59 jasom: I suspect that with-output-to-octets is not very god, then. 22:21:02 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-75.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:03 good, rather. 22:21:19 that "getting shit done" aspect inhibits me dicking around with new things. I'm more interested in stuff being done than evaluating the latest random framework 22:21:19 jasom: and that's got nothing to do with encoding and decoding 22:21:33 chrisdone: no encoding difference, but there are many string functions in lisp that have no binary equivalents in the spec. and if one of those applies, then you wipe away a lot of the performance disadvantage of encoding/decoding 22:21:52 -!- _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 22:22:00 And by not very good, I mean the implementation of it, not the concept. 22:22:03 jasom: nod 22:22:12 *p_l* ponders a quick path for 7bit ascii subset when translating from unicode 22:22:14 although if you really care, working directly in utf-8 is probably best. 22:22:26 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #lisp 22:22:34 that's what tpd2 does, iirc. or maybe antiweb. 22:22:47 *Xach* can't keep track, does not care most of the time 22:24:01 I don't have anything handy to test, but would checking if top 25 bits are 0, and doing a fast-path to UTF-8's 7-bit ascii support help? 22:24:26 well the question is what are you going to do with the ones that AREN'T 7-bit? 22:24:28 whartung: i'm the same. i kind of add my battletested functions ontop of a simple server library like hunchentoot, but then i miss out on some more general community high-level framework. oh well 22:24:30 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.159.219.127] has joined #lisp 22:24:34 (assuming SBCL's characters, which are iirc stored in 32bit words) 22:24:47 p_l: probably. SSE intrinsics would help too. 22:24:48 whartung: do normal unicode->utf-8 conversion call 22:25:21 so what's the value? You end up with a non-uniform array of a bunch of 7 bit ASCII and the occasional UTF-X character? 22:26:06 whartung: 7-bit ascii coincides with utf-8. 22:26:23 pkhuong: also, I've been thinking of explicit "ascii-strings" constants to be used for some parts and concatenated with transformed unicode->utf8 bits 22:26:31 but the concern was storing it right? not storing everything in 32 b words 22:26:33 whartung: an array of octets to be pushed into socket 22:27:18 just with special case to handle 7bit ascii subset 22:27:26 whartung: it's encoding stuff into utf-8. I'd quite welome an utf-8b external formal too. 22:27:31 *format. 22:27:41 ok 22:27:42 pkhuong: utf-8b? 22:27:55 (disclaimer: I'm getting a bit sleepy) 22:28:08 -!- chrisdone [~chrisdone@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has left #lisp 22:28:17 and I am reading hu.dwim code, again 22:29:19 p_l: round-trip safe format, even with malformed utf-8 bytestreams. 22:29:30 ah 22:29:54 isn't utf-8 self-synchronizing already? 22:30:07 when specializing print-object on my own conditions, should I print an explicative message only when *print-escape* is nil ? 22:30:32 I don't know if it can resynch in the middle of a UTF-X character or not 22:30:35 p_l: that's not the same as guaranteeing that the round-trip is an identity. Tons of byte sequences aren't valid utf-8 sequences. 22:30:42 chturne [~chturne@host81-157-142-209.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:31:14 whartung: all utf-{8,16,32} formats have that property. 22:31:33 ikki [~ikki@177.224.209.238] has joined #lisp 22:31:46 my point is how it handles starting with "byte 2" of a UTF-32 character, missing the header. 22:32:27 whartung: what header? BOM isn't specified in any UTF. 22:32:30 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.133.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:32:54 whartung: UTF-8 handles that, UTF-16 apparently got some corner cases 22:33:33 for a character in UTF-8 that is not in fact 8 bits, it becomes a multi-byte character. The first byte of the character tells the decoder that something more exciting is coming in the next N byte. My question was what happens to the decoder if it misses that first byte. 22:33:34 dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:33:54 whartung: the second byte says that it's a second byte. 22:34:03 ok 22:34:06 whartung: it ignores the next bytes till it gets a proper start byte 22:34:49 -!- dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 22:34:54 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g225057000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: bed] 22:35:32 (though, IMHO, RFC 3629 can go fuck itself) 22:35:40 RFC rage 22:36:01 p_l: beware, it might reproduce... 22:37:25 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:38:44 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:38:51 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 22:39:27 heh 22:39:54 well, at least in "theory" there won't be higher codepoints than 10FFFF 22:42:01 you'd like to think 1M characters/glyphs would be enough -- but then we got Emoji... 22:46:24 -!- xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:46:46 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:47:12 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.66.59.155] has joined #lisp 22:47:21 -!- iLogical is now known as ProAnA 22:50:49 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-66-59-155.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:52:04 brown` [user@nat/google/x-nxeityjployzhmpl] has joined #lisp 22:52:52 whartung: utf-8 is self-synchronizing 22:52:53 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:53:03 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 22:53:12 k -- figured mostly smart people figured those details out 22:53:12 hi 22:53:37 the set of bytes that can start a character is disjoint from the set of bytes that can be continuation characters 22:54:34 whartung: furthermore, 7-bit ASCII are all start characters, so if you search a set of bytes for a 7-bit ascii character, and find it, it is guaranteed to be that character, not part of a multibyte character 22:54:50 ncie 22:55:05 jasom: the self-synchronising nature of utf-8 makes that true for any utf-8 sequence. 22:55:08 I sorta knew all thatbut it, like many things, drifts with time 22:55:18 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:55:21 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:57:01 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-239-237.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:57:17 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:57:50 jasom: which is nice because, modulo normalisation, we can run stuff like regex matching on raw bytes. 22:57:59 xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 22:58:15 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-239-237.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:22 -!- xristos is now known as Guest84896 22:58:55 what about utf-18? There's a PDP-10 implementation 22:59:08 :) 22:59:13 great, it can interoperate with itself. 22:59:14 UTF-6 22:59:27 for CDC Cybers... 22:59:45 for Pascal symbols ;) 22:59:55 Both of them! 23:00:38 punycode is more efficient 23:01:43 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-019-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:03:22 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-sdteebjiqaxohles] has quit [Quit: (vector (and happy landing))] 23:03:33 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:04:41 *jasom* is considering implementing a posix shell in lisp 23:04:46 someone slap me please 23:05:20 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 23:05:22 *esr* slaps jasom with a large fish. 23:05:32 thank's esr, I needed that 23:06:10 jasom: you seem to have nothing to do with your spare time 23:06:29 I have a better project for you 23:06:35 fe[nl]ix: okay, what? 23:07:00 https://github.com/sionescu/posrednik 23:08:16 no read me, must not do anything 23:08:19 network-manager et al. are all geared towards "common" GUI users 23:08:32 I want a connection manager with a Cisco-like CLI interface 23:08:37 oh, it's a network-manager replacement? 23:08:45 what's a "network manager"? 23:09:03 a piece of software that manages network connections 23:09:20 whartung: network-manager is a specific piece of software that occasinoally decides you don't actually want to be connected to your LAN and so does random shit to your network configuratoin 23:09:34 at least that's my experience 23:09:38 yea, that's what I thought to. 23:09:43 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 23:09:58 "Individual or entity that scrambles fire wall rules as close to demo times as possible" 23:10:01 jasom: I want many things that NM can't currently do 23:10:10 fe[nl]ix: why the Polish name? 23:10:15 russian 23:10:22 define "manages network connections". Like a Connection pool? 23:10:22 Ah, ok. 23:10:25 fe[nl]ix: like actually work, and not depend on consolekit? 23:10:30 yeah 23:10:42 whartung: no like each network interface 23:11:05 the biggest bug of all is that if a wifi network disappears, NM treats it as if the authentication had gone wrong 23:11:09 whartung: NM in particularly was created to improve the wifi network stuff 23:11:10 oh, like standing up a new IP on an existing eth0 kind of thing? 23:11:16 and deletes the password from its secure store 23:11:31 so this is lower level. 23:11:40 *jasom* doesn't currently have any network laptops, so hasn't used NM much for wifi 23:12:00 *jasom* used some curses-based tool lastime he had a laptop 23:12:06 s/network laptops/linux laptops 23:12:18 wcid I think 23:12:20 wpa_supplicant (with option wpa_gui) is a perfectly sufficient/transparanet/manageable solution for wifi in linux 23:12:21 I would love something in spirit of UAM instead of Network Manager, with good cli interface to managing it 23:12:21 wicd even 23:12:24 optional* 23:12:32 -!- kmb [~kmb@rrcs-50-75-221-94.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kmb] 23:12:33 wicd never worked correctly for me 23:12:58 UAM, btw, is a <1k sloc removable storage automounter for linux 23:13:27 UAM is very nice 23:14:13 p_l: I don't think there are any hooks in linux though for "wifi network appears, wifi network disappears" whereas udef already defines events any time a device appears or disappears that UAM could hoook into 23:14:18 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:f7e0:7914:a38f:fe55:4727] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:14:26 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:14:38 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:15:12 jasom: wpa_supplicant and ifplugd together provide such data, accordingly, for wifi and wired 23:15:28 -!- daniel` [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:15:37 and udev for "network device existence" 23:16:23 antoszka: but then I want to be able to create a bridge using my built-in ethernet card and a USB card 23:16:42 ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-81-244-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:15 fe[nl]ix: so posrednik is intended to have that capability? 23:17:19 or temporarily set my ethernet NIC to manual mode because I want to configure a modem 23:17:19 fe[nl]ix: I don't mess around with networking much at all, so that would be a bad project for me to work on 23:17:51 despite my first internship being for a data-switch company 23:17:54 fe[nl]ix: yeah, something that can handle *any* config and be extended indefinitely :) 23:18:24 antoszka: yes. as a sysadmin I've found myself having to do lots of stuff that NM can't manage 23:18:37 and I love managing Cisco devices 23:18:45 (as it happens, I remember when Network Manager was gaining traction originally and the attitude towards anything that wasn't configured by DHCP) 23:18:48 well, configuring them 23:18:52 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:18:56 antgreen [~green@64.56.247.247] has joined #lisp 23:19:08 I never really dealt with NM in sysadminning. Only in some end-user devices that I wasn't really responsible for. 23:19:09 yea I don't know a thing about networking -- lucky I can get my modem to dial and get SLIP to connect... 23:19:39 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:19:42 antoszka: yeah, but imagine trying to setup quick'n'dirty network with your laptop :) 23:19:55 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:20:20 Either DHCP works or I'm hotspotting off my phone and VPNing :D 23:20:28 as it happens, Windows is ages beyond Network Manager if you know your way around netsh 23:20:41 and NM still doesn't do VPNs properly 23:20:45 whartung: and the hotspot in phone usually has dhcp server :P 23:20:50 -!- ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-81-244-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:21:06 yea, I meant a local DHCP that's Not My Phone 23:21:07 but yeah, I heard complaints about VPNs, at least if they are not the ones NM authors use ;> 23:21:14 ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-81-244-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:53 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:23:15 whartung: I may not redo reposurgeon in CL after all. I optimized out enough O(n**2) operations that it will now load 56,000 commits in 13 minutes. That's fast enough, probably. 23:23:36 unless you can rewrite it in CL in 12 minutes :) 23:23:50 (I dunno how often you need to run this thing...) 23:25:00 Oh, on a typical repo conversion I might iteratevtwo dozen times or so while I refine the command script for the final lift. 23:25:30 -!- jsj [~johan@unaffiliated/jsj] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:25:33 ah Ic 23:25:41 how many repo conversions do you do? 23:26:00 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:26:10 Thing is 56000 commits is exceptionally large. Most of the repos I run into are around an order of magnitude smaller, or less. 23:26:40 yea 23:26:48 I think we're over 20K here, maybe 30... 23:26:54 Oh, I've done....about eight or nine big ones for other people. 23:26:59 24000 23:27:02 esr: so I can cross reposurgeon off my list of possibilities for doing a svn->git transfer for a 400k+ commit repo? 23:27:46 jasom: Oh, it'll work fine. But mite take 45 minutes to load and do the topo analysis. 23:27:49 -!- ProAnA [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:53 jasom: what kind of team does 400k commits ? 23:28:17 fe[nl]ix: it's 30 years of history 23:28:34 10k branches+tags too 23:28:51 That's an exceptionally old project. RCS? 23:29:04 Something proprietary -> cvs -> svn 23:29:13 Ah. 23:30:13 Ah! RCS -- I used to use RCS... 23:30:26 SCCS is the oldest thing I've ever used 23:30:57 yea I never used that, RCS was the Hot Ticket back in  uh  92 when I was looking for something. 23:31:01 RCS was around at the time too though; not sure which is first 23:31:07 SCCS was first 23:31:17 I forget what RCS fixed over SCCS 23:31:40 CVS was originally a shell wrapper on top of RCS 23:31:55 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 23:31:59 whartung: I remembered that; RCS could only track a single directory, right? 23:32:06 yea 23:32:12 sorta, I guess :) 23:32:19 I had my own shell wrapper on top of RCS 23:32:26 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-223-002-068.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:32 even still, what a life save 23:32:58 but I had a bunch of programs, that were each their own directory, and each one had their own mini-repo 23:35:47 I had two simple checkin and checkout scripts to do all the work 23:36:32 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:36:34 rcs and sccs would track single files 23:36:53 and rcs' main advantage, at least judging from some older books, was license 23:36:56 there was another guy sorta working o the same code set, who didn't grok VC. So he's have: prog, prog_1, prog_2, prog_3 (and prog_1 would be in production) -- I wanted to beat him 23:37:15 yea but the Main Unixes of the day typically bundled SCCS 23:37:16 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 23:37:19 Solaris and HP did 23:37:39 SCO probably didn't, but they nickeled and dimed you for everything 23:37:42 yes, that's what I meant - you'd have them if you had the "dev package" 23:38:10 well I recall downloading precompiled GCC I think for our HP 23:38:27 all I recall is that RCS was notably "better" at the time. 23:38:36 'night 23:38:46 some more and I'll let the laptop fall to the floor :) 23:38:55 nn sd 23:40:10 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:40:54 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:01 there: http://www.newt.com/scm/rcs-sccs 23:42:30 -!- Asgeir [~asgeir@sal63-1-82-243-96-129.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 23:53:35 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-180-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:53:50 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-101-241.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:56:50 -!- breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:57:38 ok, I don't know what to look for. I want a function that takes another function and a list as argument and returns the result of applying this function to the elements of the list 23:57:55 for instance, (mysteriousfunction #'+ '(1 2 3)) should return 6 23:57:56 mapcar 23:58:00 oh, reduce 23:58:05 or: apply 23:58:27 perfect. Thank you