00:01:19 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-4-63.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:06:05 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@31.176.185.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:06:39 dnolen [~user@12.130.123.205] has joined #lisp 00:06:54 so what will the deprecation of trivial-gray-stream-mixin change? 00:08:04 stassats: I mean to change trivial-gray-streams so that trivial-gray-streams:write-sequence so that trivial-gray-streams-mixin is not necessary 00:08:31 how? 00:09:19 in most CL implementations stream-read/write-sequence are already generic functions. On this implementations it is not a problem.\ 00:09:51 Problematic implementations are CLISP and CCL which do not have stream-write-sequence, but have stream-write-vector, stream-write-list 00:10:13 agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:33 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 00:11:48 I saw two ways to solve it: 1)(defmethod ccl:stream-write-vector((s ccl:fundamental-output-stream) seq start end) (trfivial-gray-streams:stream-write-sequence s seq start end)) 00:13:03 bu as |3b| pointed, defining my method where all parameters are specialized to the classes provided by CL implementations is unsafe as may interfere with other libraries, and therefore it is reasonable for implementations to forbid this 00:13:24 so the way to fx 2) 00:13:29 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 00:15:00 instead of reexporting from trivial-gray-stream package all the classes defined in implementation specific gray stream package, trivial-gray-stream may mirror it's own gray class hierarchy 00:15:33 minion: thwap to antonv 00:15:33 antonv: please see thwap: THWAP! http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif and http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif (see also: http://www.unmutual.info/misc/sb_itsits.mp3 ) 00:16:34 antonv: solution number two would a lot of unnecessary dispatch 00:17:14 IOW, the current code works best, with a small caveat 00:17:43 for example, (defclass trivial-gray-streams:fundamental-output-stream (ccl:fundamental-output-stream) ()) 00:17:53 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 00:17:55 and since so few people re-implement gray streams I think it's better to document that very visibly and keep things as they are 00:17:58 (defmethod ccl:stream-write-vector :around ((s mixin) seq start end) (trfivial-gray-streams:stream-write-sequence s seq start end)) 00:17:58 fe[nl]ix: reading your image 00:18:06 what dispatch do you mean? 00:18:40 fe[nl]ix: maybe 00:19:14 stassats: worth idea 00:19:14 loke_erc [~user@bb115-66-218-239.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 00:19:54 stassats: not sure 100% about it, but will think 00:20:31 antonv: option number 3 would be to contact those implementators and have them add stream-write-sequence 00:23:58 fe[nl]ix: it's not so easy 00:25:42 fe[nl]ix: I managed to convince CLISP maintainers to add stream-read-sequence, but they still have their stream-read-byte-sequence, so the things work like this 00:27:32 stassats: doubt about your proposal: it assumes that the implementation (CCL in this case) doesn't have it's own :around method 00:27:58 ah, sorry, you specify the method on mixin, not on the standard-input-stream 00:28:06 but can't you check that? 00:30:49 stassats: never-mind, I was mistaken, your code does not require this assumption 00:31:52 it's not guaranteed against future changes, but i would very much doubt that an implementation would define an around method for trivial-gray-streams:fundamental-binary-output-stream 00:32:10 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:22 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 00:33:03 stassats: yes, I agree 00:33:32 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 00:33:37 why do we need trivial-gray-streams mixin anyway? 00:33:54 for the above discussed to work? 00:36:52 well, it exists to make stream-write-sequence to work, but this solutions has the issued I described above, and it seems to me that it's possible to have trivial-gray-streams without trivial-gray-stream-mixin and without the issue... 00:37:14 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-kfilszjyqnlclxyl] has joined #lisp 00:37:21 didn't you just say that it's not possible? 00:37:52 and didn't i present you with a solution around the issue you described? 00:38:28 stassats: I think it is possible, with the say 2) I described above 00:38:48 still have doubts about :around method 00:39:51 what doubts? 00:40:12 Artheist [~quassel@modemcable051.243-130-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:40:38 one of the doubds: if trivial-gray-stream mixin is not necessary, keeping it is an (unnecessary) API complication 00:42:22 will think more 00:42:37 thanks guys 00:42:40 option 2 does have costs, while :around doesn't 00:42:42 you helped a lot 00:42:55 everybody is using the mixin anyhow 00:43:23 with your help I have better understaning and have more variants to chose from 00:43:38 stassats: I don't see consts, could you point them out? 00:44:18 stassats: I don't mean to remove the mixing from exports list of the package and break the compatibility; only deprecate it and remove from README 00:44:22 but don't forget that adding such an :around method will break programs which depended on the default implementations of write-sequence, so you'd have to add your own default implementation 00:44:28 antonv: an additional level of indirection 00:44:50 which impacts performance 00:45:33 well, if we define an intermediate class, I think it doesn't mean dispatch has more steps 00:47:28 i read that as reexporting all classes and functions 00:47:32 then no, right 00:48:33 -!- loke_erc [~user@bb115-66-218-239.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:50:01 ok, then I have 3 choices: 1) just fix cl+ssl and add requirement to trivial-gray-streams README that trivial-gray-streams mixin must be before standard-input/output-stream in the base class list of user defined class 2) as described above 3) :around method 00:50:17 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:50:35 n°1 is the best 00:50:56 bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 00:50:58 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:11 Riviera [~Riviera@217.70.129.5] has joined #lisp 00:51:27 if by best you mean the worst, since nobody reads READMEs 00:52:20 they should be named DONTREADME 00:52:30 that'll provoke curiosity 00:52:44 stassats: that's not true, and doesn't matter much because very few people write gray streams 00:53:10 how do you know? 00:53:26 I read READMEs. q.e.d. 00:54:04 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.255.138] has joined #lisp 00:54:42 you're an outlier 00:55:23 and my second claim is trivially verifiable 00:55:51 how few is few enough? 00:56:12 few enough that one can review them all in 15 minutes and send pull requests 00:56:41 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:56:54 i've just seen trivial-gray-stream-mixin not being in the first place, so where does that put me in this peculiar survey? 00:57:10 and it not being a public code, who would you send a pull request? 00:57:28 just seen in my code, that is 00:58:31 I think I encountered this bug years ago but didn't think to report it 00:58:45 I have it in the right order in iolib 00:58:48 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 00:59:21 antonv: blog about it. that should be publick enough 01:00:12 i would imagine if there was no way to fix it, but if there's, how many more hours of time of those few people are you willing to waste? 01:00:32 instead of delegating all the time-wasting to antonv 01:02:53 if there were a way to signal an error, without going all metaclassy, then fine 01:09:57 skbierm_ [~sascha@p4FEA0222.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:12:12 -!- skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA042D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:13:09 hello 01:15:22 how does one program in a way as to use almost all of the stack for a function and then use another variable or function to fork to another stack space ? 01:17:12 you're doing something strange 01:17:32 -!- skbierm_ [~sascha@p4FEA0222.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:17:39 why not make two classes input-tgs-mixin and output-tgs-mixin and solve the problem for everyone? 01:17:41 well i would want to use recursion without the memory issues.... 01:18:08 Fare: it doesn't solve it, though 01:18:11 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:43 well at least the stack memory....i know it will get postponed to the heap instead..... 01:23:17 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:24:47 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:26:09 how does it not? instead of having to inherit from two classes and remember in which order, inherit from one that has the correct order builtin 01:27:37 that's not the issue 01:28:07 the issue that it's not a complete reexport, and not a complete re-implementation 01:28:42 so the inheritance breaks down 01:29:23 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:29:52 but if by "two classes" you mean "all classes", then that's what was among the options being discussed 01:30:35 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.255.138] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:30:46 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 01:31:56 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.255.138] has joined #lisp 01:32:20 casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:49 skbierm_ [~sascha@p4FEA0253.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:32:56 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.179.122] has joined #lisp 01:35:04 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:37:40 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:38:26 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:40:08 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 01:41:54 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:24 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:51:21 Fare: what you suggests is almost equal to the variant 2). Only I want to call these classes trivial-gray-streams:fundamental-input-stream, trivial-gray-streams:fundamental-output-stream 01:52:26 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:52:36 -!- dnolen [~user@12.130.123.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:55:24 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:00:30 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.120] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:01:28 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-161-85-130.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:04:05 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:04:43 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:06:00 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 02:08:16 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 02:08:26 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16:49 sellout- 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[~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org] has joined #lisp 03:25:02 tic [~tic@c83-248-1-208.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 03:28:53 Hi, does anyone know if uiop:run-program can launch a program in the "background" on Windows 03:29:04 like you would do with (uiop:run-program "some-program &") on Linux 03:29:08 or Mac 03:29:12 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 03:30:17 or would it be safer to spawn a thread in the Lisp for the call to the uiop:run-program 03:32:36 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.255.138] has left #lisp 03:33:13 or set up the Windows program to run as a NT service 03:35:21 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:24 nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:32 don't understand about service, but I think spawning a thread is safer/simpler 03:50:19 agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:50 -!- antonv 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Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 03:54:54 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:02 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:58:52 lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has joined #lisp 03:59:03 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:33 MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 04:00:15 antonv: yep that's what I did. 04:00:45 so my build Rube Goldberg infrastructure is finally falling into place 04:00:52 i've wanted to have a setup like this for years. 04:01:22 one "master" process on the host Machine (running CCL for now) 04:01:46 driving build agents on guest machines via dGDL network protocol 04:02:14 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:28 launching fresh build host, generating monolithic fasls, building all the needed images... 04:02:54 and all file manipulation handled by the master CCL process on the host, through virtual-machine shared folders 04:03:26 so the only thing the build agents are responsible for is the actual builds -- generating the Lisp executable images or Allegro PLLs/DXLs what have you. 04:04:08 all the messy file manipulation is handled for all platforms from one place 04:04:54 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:06:43 hyoung [~sabayonus@14.155.223.141] has joined #lisp 04:07:12 what's the meaning of dynamic varibal 04:07:34 I cant grasp the core or the variable 04:08:00 is it the same as global or static in C? 04:09:29 not really 04:09:33 it's dynamically scoped 04:18:20 hyoung: first, you set it up with defparameter or defvar 04:18:36 (defparameter *color-override* nil) 04:18:48 let's set you have some draw routine and each object has its own default color 04:19:03 but you want to draw them with some override color and not have to devise new arguments to pass in to the draw routines for this 04:19:13 so you set up the *color-override* as above, 04:19:25 then use let to bind it dynamically to whatever value for that particular call tree 04:19:55 (let ((*color-override* :blue)) (invoke-draw-routines  )) 04:20:30 now anything dynamically called within the scope of that let (not just lexically what you can see in the code, but anything called downstream) will see :blue as the value of *color-override* 04:20:33 Vicfred [~Grothendi@187.206.72.56] has joined #lisp 04:21:19 but if those same functions are called not from within that let, they will see nil as the value. 04:21:35 also dynamic variables are typically thread-local 04:22:02 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.187] has joined #lisp 04:22:02 so the value of *color-override* in any simultaneously running threads would be unaffected 04:24:52 let's set -> let's say * 04:31:32 milosn [~milosn@user-5AF506CE.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 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[~stardivin@122.236.253.119] has joined #lisp 07:36:55 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 07:37:52 rubenrubz [~ruben@pool-71-108-81-154.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:40 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:47:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:48:48 -!- rubenrubz [~ruben@pool-71-108-81-154.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:54:17 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-182-180.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:55:28 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 07:57:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:59:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:00:03 momo-rei` [~user@173.245.217.230] has joined #lisp 08:00:26 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.187] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:01:04 dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:01:37 -!- momo-reina [~user@110.50.241.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:02:07 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:05:04 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 08:06:03 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06:40 -!- momo-rei` [~user@173.245.217.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:07:11 momo-reina [~user@173.245.217.230] has joined #lisp 08:12:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:14:35 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:20:49 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:24:56 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:27:54 momo-rei` [~user@aa20111001946f573ac0.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:28:07 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:29:42 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.255.138] has left #lisp 08:29:57 -!- momo-reina [~user@173.245.217.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:32:58 -!- momo-rei` [~user@aa20111001946f573ac0.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:33:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:35:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:35:23 loke_erc [~user@bb115-66-218-239.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:35:57 momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573ac0.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:36:03 -!- loke_erc [~user@bb115-66-218-239.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Client Quit] 08:36:18 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.187] has joined #lisp 08:36:52 loke_erc [~user@bb115-66-218-239.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:37:06 There, cl-gss now works. https://github.com/lokedhs/cl-gss/ 08:37:08 samm [~samm@212.91.105.1] has joined #lisp 08:37:39 -!- momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573ac0.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44:39 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 08:45:07 Ralt [~ralt@88.60.8.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:44 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:57:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:57:35 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:00:14 -!- loke_erc [~user@bb115-66-218-239.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:29 bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 09:04:05 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 09:11:32 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 09:12:22 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.59] has joined #lisp 09:13:53 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-34-78-123.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:15:34 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 09:15:41 m4dnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 09:17:00 ebw [~user@e179203036.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:17:13 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:17:36 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:18:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:20:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:22:48 smull [~smull@port-212-202-120-50.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:26:16 -!- CrazyEddy [~transaudi@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:32:46 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 09:32:52 somebody ever heard from a cl implementation abbreviated scl ? 09:33:07 scieneer common lisp 09:38:53 what is the status of SCL anyway? 09:39:14 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:30 Their homepage doesn't seem to be reachable 09:39:59 I just wondered about an #-scl in the usocket source. 09:43:06 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:55:22 esr [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/esr] has joined #lisp 09:57:04 CrazyEddy [~iodinophi@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 10:00:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:01:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:05:56 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@234.93-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 10:05:57 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@234.93-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 10:05:57 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 10:07:49 seems to be a partial failure on their server 10:08:04 it does a redirect, then dies serving it 10:08:39 Quadrescence: last time I checked, SCL was the only CL for IA-64 with native code generation other than ECL 10:09:50 Bacteria_ [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:11:25 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-197-214-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 10:12:05 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:12:05 -!- Bacteria_ is now known as Bacteria 10:14:57 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-203-239-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:15:31 paste.lisp.org seems to error out when you ask it to colourize an existing paste. To reproduce: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135927  select common lisp, [x] show line numbers  colorize 10:15:40 s/colorize/format/ 10:16:15 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@92.36.192.113] has joined #lisp 10:18:34 -!- Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-197-214-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:19:43 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@188.168.247.122] has joined #lisp 10:20:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:22:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:29:35 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 10:30:48 zacts` [~user@97-123-205-177.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:50 Quadrescence: scl is a commercial implementation. Ask their sales people. 10:31:48 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:32:34 -!- ebw [~user@e179203036.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:38:49 -!- Ralt [~ralt@88.60.8.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:55 Ralt [~ralt@88.60.8.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:29 agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:30 -!- googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:47:38 -!- Ralt [~ralt@88.60.8.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:49:01 Ralt [~ralt@88.60.8.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:42 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:50:21 -!- Ralt [~ralt@88.60.8.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:52:01 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:32 bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 11:00:00 -!- Absintheur [~JStrae@a91-155-62-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has left #lisp 11:01:21 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:02:11 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0034ba.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:56 much of usocket's code was written by Scieneer themselves (Doug, to be exact) 11:06:22 ah. that is: scl-specific code, of course. 11:08:18 the rest was written by Chun Tian (and me, before that) 11:09:12 antoszka, it has been my impression that paste.lisp has been rotting 11:09:26 there is an enormous amount of spam on it 11:11:10 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 11:13:32 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:14:43 Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.245.85] has joined #lisp 11:17:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.249.79] has joined #lisp 11:17:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.249.79] has quit [Changing host] 11:17:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:22:15 Bacteria_ [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:24:17 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:24:17 -!- Bacteria_ is now known as Bacteria 11:24:54 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:29:27 Eldariof93-ru [~CLD@pppoe-205-188-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 11:29:59 -!- skbierm__ [~sascha@p4FEA0AB8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 11:31:38 skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA0AB8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:31:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:32:26 -!- Eldariof-ru [~CLD@188.168.247.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:32:51 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-176-129.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:36:41 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 11:39:20 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.245.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:40:15 Saturn_ [~rose@113.14.47.148] has joined #lisp 11:42:37 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:44:00 nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:11 -!- sdemarre [~serge@125.162-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:50:51 bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 11:51:46 Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.245.85] has joined #lisp 11:53:21 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:53:26 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:47 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 11:55:10 robot-be` [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:56 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:57:40 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:02:38 -!- skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA0AB8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 12:04:41 zacts`` [~user@168-103-125-115.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:36 -!- zacts` [~user@97-123-205-177.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:06:26 -!- samm [~samm@212.91.105.1] has quit [Quit: samm] 12:07:18 -!- robot-be` [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:29:31 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:31:45 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-14-38.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:35:42 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 12:38:16 dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 12:41:37 bitonic [~user@dyn1220-105.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:50:46 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 12:52:30 Scieneer is expecting to do a new release of the SCL at some point. 12:52:37 i'm not sure why their website is down at the moment. 13:01:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:02:04 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:03:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:05:33 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:06:50 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.84] has joined #lisp 13:08:15 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:08:38 LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-4-63.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:08 -!- karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:17:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:20:14 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c201e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:30 sdemarre [~serge@125.162-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 13:31:11 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:31:20 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:34:05 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-199-155.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:34:52 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 13:37:37 One day i should just sit and learn everything about slime, i was using tmux/htop/gdb... etc but guess! there is slime-attach-gdb! 13:37:48 Eldariof28-ru [~CLD@188.168.241.192] has joined #lisp 13:39:36 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:41:06 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:41:36 -!- Eldariof93-ru [~CLD@pppoe-205-188-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:42:05 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:42:52 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:08 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 13:45:57 agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:31 -!- Zhivago [~lys@unaffiliated/zhivago] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:49:24 From Douglas Crosher: "[the Scieneer site was] just down briefly for routine maintenance" 13:49:30 (scieneer.com is back up now) 13:53:09 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0034ba.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:55:48 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 13:57:10 casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:44 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:39 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:03:37 -!- guaqua [gua@hilla.kapsi.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:24 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:12:16 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:07 -!- MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz 14:17:34 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.171.129] has joined #lisp 14:18:04 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Killed (pratchett.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 14:18:04 MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:19 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:19:32 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 14:20:48 loke_erc [~user@bb115-66-218-239.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:26:30 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:33:52 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko 14:39:04 which common lisp is good on windows 7 64bit 14:41:05 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-204-13.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:44:22 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:47 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-204-227.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 14:47:18 thomas_yzj: closure cl, for starters 14:47:35 s/s/z/ 14:47:39 then sbcl 14:49:09 i'll name my implementation cloture cl, pronounced the same way as closure 14:49:38 Ralt [~ralt@88.60.8.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:25 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:53 or a language called clogure 14:53:42 -!- Ralt [~ralt@88.60.8.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:46 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:28 which one has most features and works stable 14:57:08 sbcl considers itself experimental at this point 14:57:13 don't know what ccl thinks about its windows 64 support 14:57:42 ccl/win64 is more stable than ccl/win32 14:58:08 and win64 is recommended for using CCL on windows 14:58:22 classic caveats about binary compatibility etc. apply 14:59:11 thanks 14:59:53 SBCL/win32 is also stabler on windows 64 than on 32bit windows, although it's a 32bit app 15:00:39 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:01:09 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:28 there is a 64bit sbcl on it's website ,i just see it 15:02:35 -!- dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:02:39 ah 15:02:51 well, I haven't been keeping attention on SBCL for windows 15:05:32 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 15:06:24 good morning 15:06:50 one thing I'm finding annoying about clojure is its failure to use parens for vectors 15:06:54 I find it makes the syntax confusing 15:07:09 MrWGW-: try #clojure 15:07:24 I'm saying, this is something I very much prefer in Common Lisp 15:07:33 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:07:51 MrWGW-: You prefer #( over [? *shrug* half dozen of one  15:07:56 right now I'm in the design phase of a macro processor in clisp to replace m4 15:08:08 sellout-: the annoying thing is just having to have two of them now 15:08:13 the beauty of clisp syntax is its ocnsistency 15:08:19 Both are better than Scheme, IMO. 15:08:35 MrWGW-: what do you mean by clisp? 15:08:36 MrWGW-: (clisp is an implementation  cl is the abbreviation you want) 15:08:39 it's common lisp, not clisp 15:08:43 so m4 is a classic tool, its been around since around 1978, when it replaced a less advanced system called m3 15:08:52 Xach: well the Clisp implementation of Common Lisp 15:08:57 which is my preferred Lisp dialect 15:08:58 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 15:09:18 now what I want to do is write a lean, simple Common Lisp based replacement for m4, in Common Lisp, entitled m5 15:09:32 in honor of the disastrously failed supercomputer from Star Trek 15:09:51 m4 if you've ever tried to use it, is very unpleasant 15:09:58 pbgc [~pbgc@bl20-179-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 15:09:58 MrWGW-: this is a good place to discuss strategies in common lisp but not so much a good place to discuss how little you like other languages 15:10:16 clisp implements common lisp, not some dialect 15:10:36 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 15:10:39 unless you consider its brain damaged interpretation of some corner cases of the standard as a dialect 15:10:40 stassats: indeed, common lisp is my preferred Lisp dialect 15:10:41 MrWGW-: just in case - don't worry, but we're a bit pedantic sometimes :) 15:10:46 and clisp is the implemnetation I normally use 15:10:50 Phonatacid [~Phonataci@AToulouse-552-1-71-156.w92-136.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:11:32 -!- Phonatacid [~Phonataci@AToulouse-552-1-71-156.w92-136.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:38 but what I want to do basically is write a macro-processing DSL based on common lisp, as a successor to m4 15:11:52 and if you want to abbreviate, there's "CL", it's even shorter than "clisp" 15:12:10 -!- pbgc [~pbgc@bl20-179-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 15:12:27 is there a better open source common lisp interpretation that you suggest? 15:12:32 err implementation blah 15:12:39 pbgc [~pbgc@bl20-179-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 15:13:07 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 15:13:36 I've historically gone with clisp just due to ease of access 15:14:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.249.79] has joined #lisp 15:14:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.249.79] has quit [Changing host] 15:14:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:14:32 Ralt [~ralt@88.60.8.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:36 -!- pbgc [~pbgc@bl20-179-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 15:14:40 sbcl, followed by ccl 15:15:33 pbgc [~pbgc@bl20-179-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 15:16:37 I'll look into it 15:17:23 I could do without the political symbols every time I fire up clisp anyway heh 15:17:37 and clisp maintainers have been apathetic to even fixing bugs as of lately 15:17:46 so that's a good reason to move on 15:18:13 or just even acknowledging their validity or invalidity 15:18:59 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:19:31 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-213-219-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 15:21:35 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c201e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:40 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-4d012772.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:59 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.171.129] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:22:35 -!- Eldariof28-ru [~CLD@188.168.241.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:31:05 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:32:08 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 15:34:44 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:38:06 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.171.129] has joined #lisp 15:40:12 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 15:43:28 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:45:42 -!- loke_erc [~user@bb115-66-218-239.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:57 Zhivago [~lys@1.234.65.131] has joined #lisp 15:48:06 MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:48:36 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 15:51:15 imu96 [~imran@91.140.172.90] has joined #lisp 15:51:48 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:52:07 thomas_yzj: for Windows 64, Allegro CL or LispWorks. 15:52:11 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-023-240.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:45 which are not free 15:53:16 true, I guess their respective Express and Personal editions are 32-bit only. 15:53:34 and it's pretty easy to hit the memory limit on either 15:53:37 which are unusable either way 15:54:11 the new ASDF doesn't allow me to even compile my not that big program on Allegro, for example 15:55:32 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.172.90] has quit [Client Quit] 15:56:56 newgirl [~hmmmm@182.189.84.156] has joined #lisp 15:57:31 well 64-bit Allegro and LispWorks exist as alternatives for 64-bit Windows, is all i'm saying. 15:57:48 not all projects have zero budget for software. 16:00:01 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:00:20 anyone know of (perhaps even beginning) lispers in belgium that are interested in a solid job? partially in lisp. 16:02:13 slyrus [~chatzilla@rrcs-74-62-15-154.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:02:17 -!- Ralt [~ralt@88.60.8.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:33 madnificent: why only partially? 16:04:57 Does anyone have slime incantation to update the *slime-repl ..* buffer name with something describing the lisp implementation version? 16:05:06 SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:59 or maybe to show the version at the top where it currently shows e.g. "LispWorks" or "Clozure Common Lisp" ? 16:06:11 i guess it's just picking up (lisp-implementation-type) right now 16:09:38 (slime-setup '(slime-banner)) (setq slime-repl-banner-function (lambda () (setq header-line-format (format "%s %s Port: %s Pid: %s" (slime-lisp-implementation-type) (slime-lisp-implementation-version) (slime-connection-port (slime-connection)) (slime-pid))))) 16:13:37 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:22 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:15:50 normanrichards [~normanric@71.22.108.187] has joined #lisp 16:17:05 stassats: perfect. 8) 16:17:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:17:31 sounds like a great slime-tips.tumblr.com entry 16:18:51 Xach: but i don't want slime to look good! 16:19:05 -!- newgirl [~hmmmm@182.189.84.156] has left #lisp 16:19:07 too bad 16:19:38 i should write tips which will subtly break slime and people will start hating slime 16:19:57 stassats: that's why I have customers whining "can you integrate Gendl with Eclipse?" 16:20:00 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:10 because when they first see emacs/slime it appears to do nothing for them. 16:20:14 or maybe just inadvertently commit bugs 16:20:23 i guess that part is not going to change. 16:20:32 stassats: why are you talking about sabotaging Slime? What is your alternative? 16:20:48 stassats: by the way I just noticed your name is a palindrome. I'm slow that way. 16:21:30 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:22:19 well, i'm slowly writing a slime replacement, but i should pave my way, so that people will yearn for it 16:22:37 emacs is doing a good job at sabotaging itself, though 16:23:10 is the slime replacement still going to be in emacs? 16:23:16 nope 16:23:26 in CL? 16:23:39 right now it's using commonqt 16:24:35 stassats: that means i'll have to use mouse? 16:24:46 gendl: i posted a video recently: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2zyRQlLLSU 16:25:13 it's really not ready for anything yet, and won't be anytime soon, so don't hold your breath 16:25:37 nan_: it could, supposedly, behave like emacs 16:26:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:26:28 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:26:38 please don't break Slime in the meantime, ok? some of us still need it as a stepping stone to get to whatever is next. 16:27:07 well, if you couldn't tell, i was joking 16:27:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.249.79] has joined #lisp 16:27:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.249.79] has quit [Changing host] 16:27:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:27:38 i think i knew. 16:27:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-218-2.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:28:09 what is emacs doing to sabotage itself? 16:28:11 but then i'm not as willing to add new features, just fixing bugs 16:28:37 gendl: it still doesn't have concurrency support 16:28:53 you mean multiprocessing? 16:29:00 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.171.129] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:29:02 can't use multiple cores? 16:29:37 that's one way to support it, just a way to execute multiple tasks at once without blocking the interface 16:31:05 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:31:17 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:33 who else is active in Slime these days? Helmut Eller? 16:31:41 yes 16:31:52 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 16:33:15 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@rrcs-74-62-15-154.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:33:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:34:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:35:17 -!- pbgc [~pbgc@bl20-179-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:35:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:35:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:36:13 another goal is to improve commonqt, i've already fixed several bugs and improved performance while working on the repl 16:39:43 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:18 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-197-28-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:41:27 but commonqt isn't a whole editor, is it? 16:41:39 commonqt is Qt 16:41:40 you're talking about pretty much re-implementing emacs in commonqt? 16:41:50 Qt is a GUI library isn't it? 16:42:07 it is 16:42:36 so you're talking about pretty much re-implementing emacs in Qt 16:43:07 only the things necessary 16:43:18 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:31 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.59] has joined #lisp 16:43:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:43:45 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:43:48 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 16:44:36 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-213-219-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:46:39 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:48:00 stassats: looks good 16:48:26 Odyessus_ [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:48:29 i did a repl on top of gl some time ago 16:48:41 slyrus [~chatzilla@rrcs-74-62-15-154.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:48:52 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:48:53 -!- Odyessus_ is now known as Odyessus 16:49:48 cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 16:54:11 i'm spending too much time on getting the print output smooth, still not satisfied 16:57:41 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:04:06 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:05:30 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:06:16 hi, I can't find in clhs which forms create implicit block named nil. 17:06:24 where is it listed pls? 17:09:48 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:35 There may not be a list. Each operators says whether it does (or use an operator that does). 17:10:46 ok 17:12:25 Bike [~Glossina@71-34-78-123.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:50 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:13:09 -!- zacts`` is now known as zacts 17:13:23 -!- zacts [~user@168-103-125-115.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:13:23 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 17:16:54 mducharme5 [mducharme@S0106002401f31855.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:07 good afternoon 17:17:36 I'm having a frustrating issue with the lisp "tailp" function 17:18:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:18:24 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:19:00 it is returning NIL no matter what parameters I specify 17:19:35 -!- _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:48 (let ((list '(1 2 3 4))) (tailp (last list) list)) 17:19:59 if I do for instance (tailp '(A B C) '(A B C)) 17:20:01 I get NIL 17:20:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:20:52 it uses eql 17:21:10 (let ((list '(A B C))) (tailp list list)) 17:22:01 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1096586303.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:22:08 Joreji [~thomas@64-132.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:22:26 ohh 17:26:15 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.23.121.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:53 is there another function that will do what I want? 17:27:08 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.64.200] has joined #lisp 17:27:27 I want to compare two different lists to see if list a is a sublist of list b 17:27:33 but they are in different storage 17:27:48 or will I need to write my own function to do that 17:29:10 mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.19] has joined #lisp 17:29:11 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.19] has quit [Changing host] 17:29:11 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 17:32:06 gendl: some of it is configuration, which is arguably not lisp 17:32:13 something like subsetp 17:32:57 except I want to make sure that the elements always start at the beginning 17:33:05 and are in the same sequence 17:36:02 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:36:37 clhs search 17:36:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_search.htm 17:37:08 (search '(A B C) '(1 A B C 2)) => 1 17:37:08 -!- mducharme5 [mducharme@S0106002401f31855.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:46 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 17:38:51 mducharme5 [~mducharme@S0106002401f31855.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:51 rixard [~rixard@81-235-139-119-no63.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:31 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.187] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:42:10 thanks stassats 17:43:27 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:43:55 dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-180-232.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:38 that's exactly what I needed 17:46:07 see also: mismatch 17:49:36 madnificent: relocation required if that person lives in The Netherlands? 17:51:14 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@71.22.108.187] has quit [] 17:57:08 mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:58:12 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 17:58:13 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 18:03:24 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:05:01 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:05:10 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 18:10:13 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 18:15:48 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.112.78] has joined #lisp 18:17:35 Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.228.105] has joined #lisp 18:17:42 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:18:41 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.245.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:21:46 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:22:07 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:25 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@64-132.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:27:59 Joreji [~thomas@64-132.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:28:14 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.228.105] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:28:15 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:29:14 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:31:13 stassats: the thing with that slime-repl-banner-function is, it makes the initial CL-USER> prompt disappear, until you hit [Enter] in the repl buffer 18:31:26 how about a function that will take a list and divide it up into smaller lists of n elements each 18:32:06 ex. '(A B C D E A B C D E A B C D) with n = 5 gets turned into '((A B C D E)(A B C D E)(A B C D)) 18:32:06 ? 18:32:26 is there something pre-existing that will do that or do I have to write my own function 18:33:19 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 18:33:47 dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 18:34:41 -!- dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 18:36:47 seangrove [~user@coffeebar.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:09 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:28 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 18:42:31 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:42:35 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.127.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:44:43 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:47:56 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:55:03 nevermind, found it 18:55:05 group-lst 18:55:34 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:46 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:58:06 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:45 rubenrubz [~ruben@pool-71-108-67-227.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:16 MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:04:08 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:37 lst? 19:05:24 mducharme5: I don't see group-lst anywhere in CL 19:05:37 stassats: I ended up just editing my local contrib/slime-banner.el 19:05:40 to add the version 19:05:59 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:06:47 the setting of slime-repl-banner-function seems to clobber the startup animation stuff, maybe it's because I'm using slime-fancy 19:07:15 why do you need animation? 19:07:41 of course I don't. 19:09:28 but apparently even without slime-fancy, setting the slime-repl-banner-function like that makes the welcome line not show up 19:10:03 where you usually get the 19:10:09 ; SLIME 2013-02-13 19:10:17 CL-USER> 19:10:47 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 19:10:51 anyway i don't mean to be asking you to enhance Slime! sorry. 19:11:36 now I just need it to start the Lisp in the directory containing my devo.el file which has the setting of my slime-lisp-implementations 19:12:18 the "current directory" of Lisp seems not to respect the pwd of emacs 19:12:28 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has left #lisp 19:12:45 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 19:13:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@64-132.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13:09 Joreji [~thomas@64-132.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:13:45 mducharme5: "group-lst" sounds like the name of a scheme function (lst vs list). This is #lisp, #scheme is thataway ----> 19:14:17 Even in scheme, it's not a standard function. 19:15:12 well, it is in my R-2RS ! :P 19:16:00 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:25:21 lukas [~lukas@194.228.13.186] has joined #lisp 19:25:35 -!- MoALTz__ is now known as MoALTz 19:27:00 Yuuhi [benni@p5DC62DD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:07 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:29:36 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:f7e0:89d9:bb90:f9ba:3f91] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:30:18 -!- Saturn_ [~rose@113.14.47.148] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:30:23 k0001 [~k0001@host237.190-224-57.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:35:39 nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:08 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:45:42 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-mxfhqtoiaqznqrnf] has joined #lisp 19:46:34 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:21 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1220-105.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:48:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:16 uwm [~uwm@cm-84.212.14.12.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 19:50:05 Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.202.173] has joined #lisp 19:50:56 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 19:51:17 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:50 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.112.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:54:19 Thra11_ [~thrall@163.15.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:08 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:55:45 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.202.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:55:46 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@163.15.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:56:19 Thra11_ [~thrall@163.15.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:55 k0001_ [~k0001@host119.186-125-113.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:57:55 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ragequit] 19:58:57 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:00:02 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host237.190-224-57.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:00:49 masondesu [~textual@adsl-74-177-100-114.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:54 -!- uwm [~uwm@cm-84.212.14.12.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:09:31 Anybody using homebrew installed emacs on a mac? I'm trying to remap my meta key to cmd, and can't figure out what's going wrong 20:09:41 seangrov` [~user@coffeebar.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:55 -!- seangrove [~user@coffeebar.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10:07 Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-249-241.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:20 I've added this to my .emacs file https://gist.github.com/masondesu/5130197 20:12:07 masondesu: this is not a good place for emacs help like that. maybe #emacs is better (I'm not sure if it is) 20:13:07 xach ha, i just tried in #emacs, but everyone just kept talking about gaming physics engines and ignored my questions :( 20:17:14 -!- rubenrubz [~ruben@pool-71-108-67-227.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 20:17:33 masondesu: well, given the the /topic of this chan is "Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language", and not emacs related at all, you might not have very much luck with the answering of the off-topic question. 20:18:19 However, there are emacs users on OSX here, as there likely is in many many unrelated channels ... :P 20:19:15 just tossing the question out there as there have been occasional emacs questions answer in here, and the #emacs room was rather unhelpful 20:19:17 rubenrubz [~ruben@pool-71-108-67-227.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:29 s/answer/answered 20:21:41 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:21:57 -!- Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-197-28-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:24:50 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-199-155.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:26:18 googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 20:26:37 on [~on@4.Red-83-35-37.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:56 -!- on is now known as Guest65265 20:27:11 I'm pretty sure I just use http://emacsformacosx.com/. 20:28:35 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-74-177-100-114.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:29:03 -!- waveman_ [~tim@101.174.161.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:31:11 masondesu [~textual@adsl-74-177-100-114.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:00 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:38:28 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 20:38:46 -!- rubenrubz [~ruben@pool-71-108-67-227.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:39:28 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C03.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:39:28 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C03.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:43:59 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-75.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:47:19 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 20:47:55 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:34 is there a way from the repl (or better yet, from slime debugger eval-in-frame facility) to check if a symbol is of a special variable that should have been set so by a top-level defparameter elsewhere? 20:50:01 (other than see the next function needing the setting to fall on itself) 20:50:02 rubenrubz [~ruben@pool-71-108-67-227.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:21 bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 20:50:41 I though that defparameter would allow me not to have to (declare (special *state*)) everywhere, and it used to work until I did change the dynamic value from within a let* form 20:51:46 boundp? 20:52:38 dim: you do have to make sure it's defined prior to reference 20:52:54 lexically or dynamically? 20:53:07 dim: via defparameter or defvar. 20:53:20 I do a defparameter in another file/package and import that symbol in the current package 20:53:42 dim: you have to compile & load that defparameter file first, then. 20:54:18 that's what I do in the .asd file 20:54:37 :components ((:file "params") 20:54:37 (:file "package" :depends-on ("params")) 20:55:22 params.lisp has the defparameter, setting *state* to nil, then package.lisp is doing the other packages :export and :import-from dances, making it so that they all have *state* in their own package 20:55:31 I'm doing the one package per file approach here 20:56:03 dim: What indicates to you that something isn't working as you wish? 20:56:58 the code I run is using *state* and gets into the debugger because it's NIL at this time, where it happens in a dynamic extent where I did let* the *state* to a non-nil value 20:57:31 the code is too big to paste easily now, I could upload it somewhere, but there's a lot to read before being helpful, and it's not as simple as one would like any more 20:57:37 any threads involved? 20:57:42 it's Open Source and I can publish it 20:57:50 stassats: yes, using lparallel 20:58:07 there you go, bindings are thread-local 20:58:07 the let* and the later processing both happens in the same thread 20:58:27 damn. no they're not. 20:58:38 I was *so* confident I did it that way. thanks. 21:00:23 let's do the &optional (state *state*) dance from the worker thread main call point 21:00:24 ah 21:01:10 can I declare special a function parameter? can I do &optional (*state* *state*)? 21:01:23 why not? 21:02:03 I think to remember that function arguments have other rules as far as binding extents are concerned 21:02:37 no, they haven't 21:03:10 foreignFunction1 [~niksaak@94.27.88.52] has joined #lisp 21:03:41 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.84] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:03:49 so (defun foo (a b c &optional (*state* *state*)) (declare (special *state*)) ...) would do what I want here? (that is having an extra parameter override current *state* when given, and still be a dynamic binding when it's not been seen before) 21:03:51 -!- foreignFunction1 is now known as foreignFunction 21:04:00 francogrex [~user@109.134.234.147] has joined #lisp 21:04:37 naturally 21:04:40 but it will rebind it even if you don't pass an extra parameter 21:04:47 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-201-152.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:53 dim: why do you need to declare special? it's already defparametered. 21:04:54 dim: yes, but why don't you just defvar *state* somewhere instead of the declare? 21:05:37 pkhuong: it's been defparametered in another thread then bound locally before starting the current thread, and apparently that's why I need to 21:06:01 that's definitely not what's going on. 21:06:07 (declare (type (or null double-float) variable) .. is this "legal" declaration ? 21:06:07 no, variables are thread-global, bindings are thread-local 21:06:20 francogrex: yes 21:06:24 prxq_: I have a defparameter, but in some case I want a "local" overriden dynamic value, and that needs to extent to the next subworker thread 21:06:35 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-231-164.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:44 -!- rubenrubz [~ruben@pool-71-108-67-227.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:06:44 once declared special, it can't go unspecial 21:06:50 cool. 21:07:01 hmm 21:07:03 special for life 21:07:07 rather, proclaimed 21:07:16 how do I make it so that the worker thread see the current dynamic binding value at the time when the thread is created then? 21:08:22 dim: you capture the value in a lexical binding and reinstate it in the worker thread. 21:08:37 dim: http://lparallel.org/kernel/ 21:08:51 the bloody thing doesn't have an anchor for "Dynamic variables and worker context" 21:09:38 yes I did try that without any luck earlier this week 21:09:49 there's something crucial I don't understand here 21:10:06 that's why I'm asking another batch of stupid questions... 21:10:41 Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.212.82] has joined #lisp 21:10:56 pkhuong: ok that's what I wanted to do with the &optional (*state* *state*) + a declare special. are you saying that I just don't need to re-declare *state* as special in the worker thread? 21:11:00 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@163.15.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:11:37 the special proclamation is global, how many times should that be repeated? 21:12:03 hey, there's something funky going on with that with threads, obviously 21:12:13 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 21:12:15 and how would it work otherwise? since it is resolved at compile-time 21:12:21 how funky it is when confronted to that I'm yet to understand 21:12:30 fair enough 21:12:34 now that's a good clue :) 21:13:23 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.234.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:40 does anybody know how to make Slime start the lisp in a specified current directory? 21:14:07 dim: the *state* optional argument is special. It's bound in the parent thread, not in the child. 21:14:43 gendl: change it before you start it 21:15:07 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-34-78-123.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:15:45 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.212.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:15:47 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.127.74] has joined #lisp 21:16:00 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-4d012772.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:16:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@64-132.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:59 with M-x cd ? 21:17:04 Joreji [~thomas@64-132.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:17:16 if you want to do that by hand 21:18:01 ok.. sorry i was doing it in the .emacs but didn't seem to work, I guess I did it wrong there 21:18:15 sorry to bother the room with this, i'll sort it... 21:19:16 (defun start-slime () (interactive) (with-temp-buffer (cd directory) (slime))) 21:19:42 nice. 21:20:38 or you could figure the syntax of slime-lisp-implementations and use :directory parameter 21:22:36 btw, any ways to check if a symbol is currently bound to a special variable? 21:22:52 dim: boundp. 21:23:26 k0001 [~k0001@host22.190-229-164.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 21:23:47 -!- dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-muszvnimusnzjhvt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:23:57 indeed. thanks. 21:23:59 -!- Guest65265 [~on@4.Red-83-35-37.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.4.1] 21:24:08 dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ihjnczxtcfbtdjyk] has joined #lisp 21:24:40 -!- H4ns [hans@178.63.163.33] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:46 H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:28 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:26:53 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host119.186-125-113.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:27:16 -!- seangrov` [~user@coffeebar.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:27:40 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:28:14 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-4d0104a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:35 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 21:32:04 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:47 dim: be aware that code compiled before *state* was made special will behave differently. Things like (let ((*state* )) ... for example. 21:34:37 yes. the first thing that the asd does compile is the file where *state* is made special, and that's in the very top of that file 21:34:59 breaking the asd compile cycle was interesting when doing the one package per source file dance... 21:36:09 dim: then you don't need to declare it special anywhere else. 21:36:52 exactly, but I wasn't sure because of the dynamic extent and thread creation bits that I was struggling to understand, there's no extra declaration now 21:37:12 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.150.123.78] has joined #lisp 21:37:23 just some ugly code because I could not do the &optional trick in a defun where I already use &key 21:38:07 namely, &key (state *state*) and (let ((*state* state)) ...) 21:39:40 -!- SeanTAllen [uid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wrsupbxcehntmots] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:40:03 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:43:14 Then: &key ((:state *state*) *state*) or &key ((*state* :state) *state*) I never know which one. 21:44:14 It's (defun f (&key ((:state *state*) *state*)) *state*) (f :state 33) --> 33 21:44:44 nice 21:44:49 (f) --> 42 ; assuming a previous (defparameter *state* 42) . 21:44:58 I couldn't decipher that from reading the docs 21:45:16 *dim* was reading 3.4.1.3 A specifier for a rest parameter 21:45:39 &key ((|the-"keyword"| the-variable) the-default-value whether-it-is-passed-p) 21:46:23 The keyword can by any symbol actually: (defun f (&key ((a b))) b) (f 'a 3) --> 3 21:46:41 s/by/be/ 21:47:09 nowadays i very rarely use &optional. Keys just scale better. 21:47:21 Indeed. 21:48:14 btw, in another place I'm doing a (declare (special *batch*)), is that frowned upon and should I prefer a preliminary defvar in the same file? 21:50:04 ejbs [~user@h-223-245.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 21:50:30 Haha, what's happened to Steel Bank Studio Ltd.? http://sb-studio.net/ 21:50:52 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 21:51:11 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 21:51:34 waveman [~tim@101.174.161.170] has joined #lisp 21:51:45 ok the ability to add a docstring makes me prefer defvar 21:52:48 dim: declare special is good when you want to pass data from one place to another without going thru a global variable. 21:53:13 it's exactly my use case here 21:53:29 Of course, passing values out-of-band (outside of function arguments and results) should be frowned upon in general, but in some cases, it may be justified. 21:53:40 using one package per file, and with non-exported symbol, it remains quite local, yes? 21:53:41 It's not worse than a global defvar anyways. 21:53:49 Indeed. 21:54:06 so the only practical difference would be some opportunity for docs 21:55:06 here I just made a function that returns a processing function so that I could split some longer code into 2 different pieces, to ease maintainance, and yes I have data to pass arround 21:56:05 and it needs to be a dynamic extent for making life easier in some error processing routines that can get involved 21:57:05 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-023-240.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:57:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@64-132.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:04 dim: capture the dynamic value in a lexical binding before returning a function. 21:58:44 that helps with that part, but I still need to have the value available from the outside when entering the error processing parts 21:59:03 rebind it to a dynamic variable inside the function. 21:59:31 after quite some playing with it I found that declaring the thing special was easier, and now I'm leaning to using defvar rather than adding the declare in 3 places 21:59:53 -!- ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:08 Bike [~Glossina@71-34-78-123.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:42 -!- sdemarre [~serge@125.162-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:01:15 ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:42 -!- ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:48 itsnevereasy [~nick@c-24-61-43-177.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:04 ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:12 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:03:50 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@125.210.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:04:25 -!- joneshf-laptop 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