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02:20:30 H4ns: such a quick fix 02:28:42 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 02:29:54 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.214.172.117] has left #lisp 02:32:00 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:35:52 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 02:37:00 *Xach* continues his lisptips.com streak 02:37:48 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.43] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:48:27 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.153.145.51] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:50:28 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:50:47 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [] 02:51:57 quazimodo [~quazimodo@d110-33-248-47.bla801.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:53:48 Xach, advanced apology for the still broken rss, if you even subscribe to that 02:56:33 samm [~samm@212.91.105.118] has joined #lisp 02:59:20 lisp steak tips? 03:01:59 how could we let redit convert from lisp? 03:03:05 -!- oticat` [~oticat@1-164-208-141.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 03:03:10 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:03:34 jaimef, because the goal of a lisp programmer isn't to evangelize, despite what it seems. the goal is to get things done 03:04:12 now the schemers and their hacker news are taking over the "Lead by example" 03:04:32 arcers, you mean, eh? 03:06:53 mzSchmers 03:07:10 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 03:08:32 You should celebrate any success of arc, imho. 03:09:04 :) 03:09:12 clearly 03:09:17 wonder if he runs more than one vm 03:09:40 MzScheme uses green threads right? wonder how he scales that out 03:10:21 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:10:35 What's to scale? 03:10:41 -!- v__ [~v@199.68.198.120] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:10:49 Just shove a great fat caching proxy on the front. 03:11:23 yeah plus nginx to handle connections 03:12:02 MzScheme^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HRacket has `thread' which is a green-thread tool, and it has futures and places which are two variants of OS threads -- but arc doesn't use any of those, so they're probably using just the first. 03:13:22 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@d110-33-248-47.bla801.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:15:04 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:15:58 Well, nginx qualifies as a great fat caching proxy, iirc. 03:16:11 was thinking more like varnish 03:16:24 wizzo [~wizzo@58-7-137-223.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:16:26 Personally, I think that threads are a terrible idea, and new languages should avoid them as much as possible. 03:16:52 Light-weight processes, on the other hand ... 03:17:26 MP is stuck a fad anyways 03:17:51 once ilp hit the wall it's all about dlp/tlp 03:18:30 Nah, those can't scale either. 03:18:47 It'll always end up being a matter of the number of (virtual) machines you can coordinate. 03:19:08 The problem with threads is shared memory, and the problem with shared memory is omnipresent contention. 03:19:15 Zhivago: +1 03:19:17 tls 03:20:17 Personally, I think that JS is leading the way on the right direction for a lot of this stuff. 03:20:41 giant async loops? 03:21:33 What loops? 03:21:41 sorry was eating 03:21:41 No. Algorithmic evaluation. 03:21:44 node 03:21:52 What does node have to do with it? 03:21:53 like nodejs 03:22:04 was asking if you meant nodejs as an example 03:22:11 As an example of a JS implementation? 03:22:19 "leading the way" 03:23:02 just asking for clarification 03:23:17 v__ [~v@202.153.186.114] has joined #lisp 03:24:08 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@184-63-19-13.cust.wildblue.net] has left #lisp 03:25:13 Well, none of this has anything to do with node. 03:25:28 It's all a consequence of the language specification. 03:26:15 python sucks: 03:26:16 help> help(help) 03:26:17 no Python documentation found for 'help(help)' 03:26:23 wait 03:26:27 help> 03:26:32 Wrong channel 03:26:40 true 03:26:41 sorry 03:26:54 it's 4am :-( 03:29:04 Anyhow, I hope that arc follows a similar approach. 03:29:52 oticat` [~oticat@36-229-162-23.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:05 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:32:45 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.212.196] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 03:33:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.78.47] has joined #lisp 03:33:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.78.47] has quit [Changing host] 03:33:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:33:53 -!- oticat` [~oticat@36-229-162-23.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:35:03 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.212.196] has joined #lisp 03:36:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 03:36:27 oticat` [~oticat@36-229-164-237.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:42 lukas [~lukas@194.228.13.12] has joined #lisp 03:39:32 -!- back-sey43 [~back-sey4@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:39:50 The ECL source code file "clos/method.lsp" defuns a function "specializers-expression" that returns a list with the head being SI::QUASIQUOTE. This list ends up as a form that I believe invokes the SI::QUASIQUOTE macro which is defined in C. Does anyone know what it is for? 03:40:09 ` probably 03:40:43 The (QUASIQUOTE XXXX) appears to return `XXXX. 03:41:07 ` is quasiquotation, so 03:41:29 LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 03:41:35 I thought it was called BACKQUOTE - but there is no BACKQUOTE in the CLHS. 03:42:08 the character is sometimes called backquote, what it does is sometimes called quasiquotation 03:43:03 Why isn't there a QUASIQUOTE in the CLHS? Like 'X is shorthand for (QUOTE X)? 03:43:32 Dunno. the page on ` mentions scheme's quasiquote, though. 03:45:44 doomlord [~doomlod@81.159.234.112] has joined #lisp 03:45:51 -!- wizzo [~wizzo@58-7-137-223.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:47:22 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@81.159.234.112] has quit [Client Quit] 03:50:45 ` 03:50:51 back-sey43 [~back-sey4@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:07 because it's READ-TIME in CL, not macro-expansion-time 03:54:40 Ok, I'm trying to replicate it. 03:55:53 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:56:01 -!- ozialien_ [~ernest@ip68-0-180-230.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:58:07 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 03:58:47 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-163.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:58:56 drmeister, it's easy to get wrong 03:59:00 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:59:12 and if you get it right, it's easy to find corner cases that the spec got wrong 03:59:13 fare: Howso? 03:59:46 k0001 [~k0001@host195.190-137-206.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:00:06 fare: Are you referring to getting ` processing wrong or the ECL quasiquote macro? 04:01:00 What is (let ((x '(1 2))) `#3(0 ,@x)) ? 04:01:48 Let me see what my program provides 04:02:08 #( 0 ( COMMA-ATSIGN X ) ( COMMA-ATSIGN X ) ) 04:02:15 I have no specific complaints about ECL 04:02:20 your program is wrong. 04:02:38 is `#( defined? 04:02:45 Bike: yes 04:03:17 oh right. 04:03:39 hey guys random idea I had. 04:03:43 I' 04:04:02 ve been messing with a simple lisp implementation and the traditional ( . ) cell 04:04:22 -!- Guest45386 [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:27 and it strikes me that for recycled cells after sufficient mashing there will be no locality in the "link" value 04:04:52 you'll get cache thrashing in the worst case, especially on a system-wide Lisp environment. 04:05:03 arrdem: indeed. Copying GCs can help. 04:05:41 but, mostly, don't use cons lists if you worry about cache, particularly if you intend to mutate the CDR. 04:05:44 so I was contemplating considering instead cache lines as the base allocation size, where the last word is the "next" link and the second to last is the count of cells in the block. 04:06:13 -!- samm [~samm@212.91.105.118] has quit [Quit: samm] 04:06:17 ... cdr coding. History showed that, even with hardware support, it's not that useful. 04:06:21 (are we at the part of the discussion where we talk about cdr coding?) 04:06:22 !! 04:06:26 so here what cons would do is inc the N-2th word, and set the N-(2+M)th word 04:06:48 cdr coding? 04:06:53 *arrdem* googles 04:07:03 Fare: Like I was saying yesterday, I implemented Guy Steele's quasiquote algorithm in C++. You told me about a bug in that code. Is this a manifestation of that bug? 04:07:15 no, that's a different bug 04:07:33 the bug I told you about is one that is seen when the "simplifier" is disabled. 04:07:52 pkhuong: I suppose that's similar.. 04:08:10 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 04:09:04 (let ((x '(1 2))) `(list ,@x)) --> ( LIST 1 2 ) 04:09:06 my thought with this is just that for the general case of consing values onto the head you can be pretty fast, and more importantly on an x86 or other Von Neuman machine you decrease your ref overhead 04:09:25 So maybe there is a problem with my #( reader macro. 04:09:44 arrdem: you increase the complexity of everything, though. Much simpler to use a bump allocator. 04:09:57 Nope: #3( 0 1 2 ) --> #( 0 1 2 ) 04:10:05 hey guys, with something like, (loop for x in '(1 2 3) collect (list "ok" x)) --> (("ok" 1) ("ok" 2) ("ok" 3)), how can I have it eval to the same but without the enclosing parens on the beginning and end? 04:10:10 arrdem: and, if it matters, just don't use cons lists. 04:10:20 pkhuong: sure. My real question was how would you choose a workload to benchmark something like this with? 04:10:41 drmeister: sounds like what's happening is, when you have #3(0 1) you get #(0 1 1) (which is correct) but when you do `#c(0 ,@x), the ,@ is treated as an atom in the same way, which is inappropriate. 04:10:42 I need it to end up as ("ok" 1) ("ok" 2) ("ok" 3) due to how it needs to be passed to (jsown:new-js 04:11:41 pkhuong: or is this something that you think I should only mess with once I have a target workload. 04:11:47 but don't get #+foo ,@x wrong, either 04:12:00 arrdem: benchmark what? The effect of pointer chasing? merge-sorting a linked list in-place is pretty bad wrt cache if the input is pre-shuffled, and will show the weakness of clever schemes like cdr coding. Just iterating through a list (e.g. with map nil) can be interesting as well. 04:12:04 ...oh, that's pretty nasty, isn't it. 04:12:51 arrdem: but, again, if it matters, the question shouldn't be how to improve the cache efficiency of linked lists as much as what other data structure is more appropraite (say.. an array). 04:13:33 These are two reader macros interacting aren't they? How are they supposed to work together? 04:13:44 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:13:57 djuber [~user@76.16.60.176] has joined #lisp 04:13:58 drmeister, not specified, but in practice implementations make it work 04:14:11 `#(0 ,@x) is supposed to be like (apply #'vector `(0 ,@x)). I don't know about the 3 - oh I guess it's not specified. 04:14:18 pkhuong: so for a clean room Lisp implementation you would say "get thee an Array litteral" rather than trying to do cleaver things with just cons cells. 04:14:28 did you find the two "correct" answers for `#3(0 ,@'(1 2)) ? 04:15:09 `#3(0 ,@'(1 2)) --> #( 0 ( COMMA-ATSIGN ( QUOTE ( 1 2 ) ) ) ( COMMA-ATSIGN ( QUOTE ( 1 2 ) ) ) ) 04:15:21 drmeister, that's a wrong answer 04:15:42 It doesn't look right but if its not specified how they are supposed to work together then why is it wrong? 04:15:51 it IS specified not to be that 04:16:01 *arrdem* remembers that premature optimization is the root of all evil and goes back to work 04:16:01 "not fully specified" != "not specified" 04:16:05 arrdem: For anything that worries about caches. If not arrays, at least flat structures. 04:16:24 the two correct answers are #(0 1 2) and #(0 1 2 1 2) 04:16:48 I'm running them in SBCL at the same time so I see what they are supposed to do. 04:16:55 depending on how the #3( interferes with the `, 04:17:07 ECL says #(0 1 2) 04:17:10 pkhuong: okay, thanks. I'm looking at doing a Lisp microkernel so making it run like a bat out of hell is high on the requirements list. 04:17:28 SBCL says #(0 1 2 1 2) -- both are arguable. 04:17:50 So is my problem in the backquote processing (which I copied from Steele) or in my #( processing? 04:18:04 Not that I expect you to solve my problems - just asking if you have a hunch. 04:19:34 arrdem: then drop conses. 04:19:36 arrdem, did you look at movitz? HaLVM? Mirage? 04:19:56 *arrdem* starts adding things to his reading list 04:19:57 drmeister, the (lack of proper) interaction between the two. 04:20:21 probably lack of #( support in Steele's backquote implementation. 04:20:37 (defun |read-`| ... (let ((*possible-vector-weirdness* t)) ...)) 04:21:22 Fare: mirage is ungooglable. better search term? 04:21:49 openmirage, opam, ocaml xen 04:22:14 drmeister, probably ALSO lack of backquote support in the #( reader 04:22:25 drmeister, see fare-quasiquote as another implementation 04:23:34 I guarantee there is no backquote support in #( and no #( support in `. 04:23:51 Well, I learn something new every day. 04:25:00 is there a better way than this? 04:25:01 (loop for x in '(1 2 3) collect (list "ok" x) \ 04:25:01 into json finally (return `(new-js ,(first json) ,(seco\ 04:25:01 nd json)))) 04:25:05 Does every reader macro need to be aware of quasiquote and vise versa? 04:25:06 sorry for 3 lines of paste 04:25:08 zacts` [~user@168-103-120-131.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:21 paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198.84.186.52] has joined #lisp 04:25:22 drmeister, no -- and that's a bug in the spec. 04:25:23 -!- stopbit [~stopbit@c-69-140-100-176.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:25:48 a better quasiquote WOULD have a "meta-quasiquote-protocol" for that. 04:25:51 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:26:21 I see. 04:26:25 so every read form would be associated with a run-time constructor, and quasiquote would know how to do the mapping. 04:26:33 but the CL quasiquote doesn't. 04:27:20 I think my immediate problem simpler. I need a quasiquote macro that does quasiquote processing at macro expansion time. 04:28:00 then you DEFINITELY need ` support in #( 04:28:18 i think his immediate problem is actually dealing with a function that returns si:quasiquote forms 04:28:24 is it even ALLOWED to work at macro-expansion time? 04:29:03 drmeister, feel free to copy code from fare-quasiquote. 04:30:01 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 04:30:06 Fare: Thank-you very much. I'll do that. 04:32:18 Fare: It looks like a trick that the ECL CLOS code is using when defining methods. Here are the relevant pieces of code: http://pastebin.com/BLLQMte3 04:32:54 that looks pretty tricky indeed 04:32:57 The SI::QUASIQUOTE symbol only appears in one place in the source code. 04:33:43 Yeah, and I'm trying to get it to work without having to understand how it all works. 04:34:27 doomlord [~doomlod@81.159.234.112] has joined #lisp 04:34:35 agumonkey [~agu@65.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:36 p_nathan [~vlion@98.145.116.195] has joined #lisp 04:36:10 SI::QUASIQUOTE is bound to a macro and the macro is being evaluated when I hit the first DEFMACRO. 04:36:18 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36:45 Since I don't have the macro (yet) it tries to evaluate it like a function application and chokes. 04:37:06 hm... if i'm reading this right i think it ought to be replaceable with `(list ,@specializers) 04:37:27 note that evaluation and macroexpansion does NOT recurse through a vector. 04:37:52 so your #() reader MUST expand differently when inside a ` 04:37:59 Xpl01t [~Xpl01t@177.159.0.4] has joined #lisp 04:40:28 Bike: What, the whole thing? 04:40:48 drmeister, if you produce a good test suite for `, that would be great 04:41:14 Replace the (list 'si::quasiquote (loop for ...) with `(list ,@specializers) 04:41:24 Seems a little too easy. 04:42:01 drmeister: It looks like given a list of specializers, it produces a form that evaluates to that list. For example if you have (integer (eql bar)) it returns (si:quasiquote integer (eql (si:unquote bar))) 04:42:19 Oh no I guess you do need to quote things 04:43:57 This is an odd function. 04:44:39 `(list ,@(loop for spec in specializers collecting (if (and (consp spec) (eq (first spec) 'eql)) `(list 'eql ,(second spec)) `',spec)) 04:44:58 MoALTz [~no@host86-137-168-140.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 04:47:53 if you find bugs in ECL or things to be improved, please send bug reports to the ECL team 04:48:06 well it looks like it works fine in the context of ecl 04:49:25 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:50:03 Fare: I will. I need to contact them at some point. Do you know any of them? 04:50:22 vi1 [~vin@112.97.192.31] has joined #lisp 04:51:10 -!- vi1 [~vin@112.97.192.31] has quit [Client Quit] 04:51:30 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 04:51:43 Oh, if you don't like my solution, maybe you could mimic theirs with some use of ``. Though I don't know how conforming that even is. 04:52:01 Also it's really hard to understandn. 04:52:20 drmeister, juan is the main one 04:53:22 -!- Artheist [~quassel@modemcable051.243-130-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54:20 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:01 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:57:43 ozialien [~ernest@ip68-0-180-230.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:44 kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-mtqlupyckaxiwzne] has joined #lisp 05:03:48 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:08:54 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 05:09:40 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:10:19 -!- back-sey43 [~back-sey4@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:12:06 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 05:14:01 -!- ozialien [~ernest@ip68-0-180-230.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:17:47 -!- kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-mtqlupyckaxiwzne] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:19:42 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:22:28 -!- zacts` [~user@168-103-120-131.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:25:18 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 05:26:00 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:29:14 -!- agumonkey [~agu@65.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:29:14 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-eulyvjtxagrifazb] has joined #lisp 05:29:15 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-eulyvjtxagrifazb] has quit [Changing host] 05:29:15 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:30:14 kenyao [~kenyao@58.249.125.82] has joined #lisp 05:32:47 kenyao_ [~kenyao@58.249.125.82] has joined #lisp 05:33:49 -!- kenyao_ [~kenyao@58.249.125.82] has quit [Client Quit] 05:34:44 -!- kenyao [~kenyao@58.249.125.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:35:28 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:36:07 kenyao [~kenyao@58.249.125.82] has joined #lisp 05:37:54 -!- kenyao [~kenyao@58.249.125.82] has quit [Client Quit] 05:39:55 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:41:47 back-sey43 [~back-sey4@67.182.147.102] has joined #lisp 05:42:12 tyfighter [~tyfighter@c-76-21-85-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:42 -!- p_nathan [~vlion@98.145.116.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:47:10 p_nathan [~vlion@98.145.116.195] has joined #lisp 05:47:58 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:50:47 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host195.190-137-206.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:01:49 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 06:04:11 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-75.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:05:37 -!- tyfighter [~tyfighter@c-76-21-85-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tyfighter] 06:06:26 Lagunitas and Lisp 06:08:52 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:11:38 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:11:58 tyfighter [~tyfighter@c-76-21-85-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:42 k0001 [~k0001@host195.190-137-206.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 06:14:06 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.214.172.117] has joined #lisp 06:21:16 -!- tyfighter [~tyfighter@c-76-21-85-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tyfighter] 06:23:25 lisptips author here? 06:23:33 Xach 06:23:48 thanks 06:30:17 -!- v__ [~v@202.153.186.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:47:01 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@109.163.166.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:47:07 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:47:08 v__ [~v@199.68.198.120] has joined #lisp 06:47:37 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 06:49:43 i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:51:16 -!- hlavaty`` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:52:11 hlavaty`` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 06:54:04 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 06:55:08 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@81.159.234.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:57:56 -!- NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-stkdilznmlaktkkx] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:58:28 -!- rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cuzezxdjcwyiezbi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:59:00 -!- PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kogoipceblthlbnx] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:59:00 -!- Gurragchaa [uid6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sajmsmtaaicgnmtx] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:59:30 -!- SeanTAllen [uid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-atnojsyjtrbwxnjt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:59:37 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@31.176.133.230] has joined #lisp 07:02:35 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:02:47 have you guys seen that AgentCubes project? 07:03:20 -!- v__ [~v@199.68.198.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:06:22 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-18-104.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:51 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #lisp 07:07:27 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:09:23 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:10:45 doomlord [~doomlod@81.159.234.112] has joined #lisp 07:11:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:11:11 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:12:07 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host195.190-137-206.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:13:40 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198.84.186.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:27 -!- Xpl01t [~Xpl01t@177.159.0.4] has quit [] 07:16:34 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:17:26 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:17:32 paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 07:19:05 v__ [~v@199.68.198.120] has joined #lisp 07:19:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:19:49 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 07:20:40 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.227.55.6] has joined #lisp 07:24:29 -!- cmm- [~cmm@109.65.178.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:25:07 cmm [~cmm@109.65.178.47] has joined #lisp 07:25:09 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0470.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:16 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:28:13 My CL compiler is compiling through to the last CLOS file. I anticipate running into a problem with the generic-function cache. ECL buries it within the C-code. 07:30:19 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.189.139] has joined #lisp 07:31:22 Calling generic functions in CL looks very expensive, with all the hashing of argument classes. Do people avoid generic functions except when they are absolutely necessary? 07:33:03 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:33:20 Expensive is relative, in all contexts I've used generics the extra cost didn't really matter since they wouldn't be called very frequently. 07:33:31 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:33:41 drmeister, no 07:33:47 at least yours truly loves'em 07:33:56 also see class sealing, if your impl allows it 07:33:59 drmeister: sane people use generic functions unless absolutely neccessary. 07:34:22 Oh, I love them as well. I'm just musing. 07:34:22 yeah, generics are just so useful 07:34:31 what do you mean expensive? You can't call virtual in C++ or generic in Lisp without additional cost 07:35:11 Summon: generics are more complicated than virtual functions. it's hard to optimize them well and a lot of it's necessarily at runtime 07:35:14 Summon, generic is harder than virtual. also lisp does indirect funcall all the time 07:35:33 only some compilers do non-indirect for same-file and only then only 07:35:36 since std prohibits it 07:35:45 Don't the classes of generic function call arguments need to be looked up, hashed and then looked up in a cache at runtime every-time a generic function is invoked? 07:35:57 drmeister, they do, yes, unless sealed 07:36:05 and inferred 07:36:20 drmeister: well, the classes usually have their hashes stored in them 07:36:23 if one needs perf, they need C or ML :( 07:36:28 i understand that they are harder. But all calls in lisp are harder unless you optimize it with implementation specific directives. 07:37:36 Ah, hashes are stored in them. That's good. 07:38:46 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:40:02 drmeister: so, if i understand the usual optimization correctly, once everything's set up (which takes a few calls) a gf invocation means class lookups for the specializing arguments, getting the hashes from their classes, combining them (which is just addition I think), looking up the method in a table, and then finally jumping to that. 07:40:10 The ECL generic function cache is a funny data structure, it's a hash table with 4096 entries. You use the hash to find an index into it, then you search the 20 following entries for your key. If you don't find it, you write in a new entry, overwriting anything that is already there. Entries are constantly overwritten. 07:40:48 sounds about right fsvo constantly 07:41:02 What is fsvo? 07:41:22 for some value of, sorry 07:41:44 Is that a common name for this sort of data structure? 07:42:40 uhm... effective method lookup table? or something like that. 07:42:58 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 07:43:01 Yeah, that I know about - it's in AMOP. 07:43:48 it's basically a specialized hash table far as I know 07:43:52 Anyway, it's all coded in C apparently and so I have to replicate it. Hi ho. 07:44:11 SBCL afaik encodes a local cache in each call location of a GF 07:44:16 pkhuong: got about 75% of the way through trying to benchmark CDR coding 'cause I didn't believe you and realized you were right, 07:44:21 (Java *does* that, at least on HotSpot) 07:44:46 hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 07:44:46 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:44:46 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:45:57 zorkmoid [c2ed8e06@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.6] has joined #lisp 07:46:04 Ok, my compiled code just tried to invoke it's first generic function. It's like it's taking its first baby steps. That's going to need more concentration to implement than I can muster now so I'm off to bed. Thanks again everyone for your help and comments. 07:46:20 drmeister: happy hacking! :-) 07:46:21 drmeister: btw, LispWorks at least supports pre-caching ("training") of CLOS 07:47:29 -!- Bike [~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:47:47 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-137-168-140.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:47:49 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 07:48:48 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.44.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:49:25 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:49:59 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 07:54:00 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 08:01:53 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:02:08 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 08:04:59 -!- hlavaty`` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:07:14 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.178.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:08:14 cmm [~cmm@109.65.178.47] has joined #lisp 08:10:44 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #lisp 08:10:44 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Changing host] 08:10:44 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 08:10:59 -!- Summon [~Summon@gw2.sibers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:11:43 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9478.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:12:19 Summon [~mokhoviko@94.251.80.158] has joined #lisp 08:13:06 -!- Summon [~mokhoviko@94.251.80.158] has left #lisp 08:13:55 summon [~mokhoviko@94.251.80.158] has joined #lisp 08:18:14 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 08:21:13 qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 08:22:41 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:23:10 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9478.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:23:16 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:29:42 asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has joined #lisp 08:32:10 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:33 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:32:56 cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-115-121.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:34:25 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9478.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:35:36 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:38:47 ehu [~ehu@109.32.136.53] has joined #lisp 08:40:33 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9478.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:40:37 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:43:23 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:49:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.189.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:53:35 mehltau [~user@178.112.72.204.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #lisp 08:54:12 carlo_au [~carlo@ppp118-208-30-9.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:40 -!- aajmakin [aajmakin@kosh.org.aalto.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:55:56 -!- carlo_au [~carlo@ppp118-208-30-9.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:56:22 does anyone have a library for reading barcodes? 08:57:16 zorkmoid, barcodes in what format? 08:57:19 as an image? 08:57:31 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Quit: z____z] 08:57:51 yeah 08:58:05 rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ppkhatzkuzhplrwu] has joined #lisp 08:58:29 a UPC barcode to be exact... 08:59:23 unfortunately I don't know of any. zorkmoid if I were you, i'd write an FFI to a C library that does it 08:59:26 surely there are some out there already 08:59:41 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.93.1] 08:59:48 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@81.159.234.112] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:59:49 i like to keep my distance from C 09:00:26 and i need to make sure this runs on windows and os x.. 09:00:46 having a C library to deploy would make things overly complicated 09:00:54 zorkmoid, out of curiosity, why? 09:00:55 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 09:01:09 If someone solved the problem already, then your problem is reduced to a few bindings... 09:01:11 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 09:01:14 zorkmoid: how about doing (run-program "zbarcam" ...) ? gives found data on STDOUt. 09:01:45 Description-en: bar code scanner and decoder (library) ZBar is a library for scanning and decoding bar codes from various sources such as video streams, image files or raw intensity sensors. It supports EAN-13/UPC-A, UPC-E, EAN-8, Code 128, Code 39, Interleaved 2 of 5 and QR Code. 09:01:55 flip214_: run-program + windows + pipe => headache 09:02:08 I definitely don't recommend run-program 09:02:16 (for portability) 09:02:21 Qworkescence: why i need to deploy on windows/osx? 09:02:26 Qworkescence: because my customers require it 09:02:45 zorkmoid, no, why a pure lisp solution? 09:02:59 Qworkescence: easy to deploy, i just supply a core file 09:03:31 Qworkescence: with a dso i need to compile it for whatever arch, os, and other willy nilly thingies ... 09:03:33 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:04:03 zorkmoid: it is pretty simple engineering. 09:04:10 yes that is true. /me sighs. It's a shame we have to duplicate. 09:04:49 Qworkescence: i wouldn't see it as duplication though, cl is much nicer to work with. 09:05:05 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:05:21 it is definitely duplication, unless you plan on expanding the functionality or whatever 09:05:36 H4ns: windows is still that bad? ok, how about directing output into a file, and read that afterwards? that even worked on MSDOS 4. 09:05:43 it is a barcode reader, what functionality do you want? :-) 09:06:15 flip214_: the right way is to use ffi. it is not at all complicated, certainly not as complicated as writing a robust barcode scanning library from scratch. 09:06:39 but hey, it can't be good if it is not written in cl, i totally understand that. 09:07:05 that is probobly is true, i will i think use ffi for an inital sketch, and write a barcode libary later.. 09:07:51 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@www31335u.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:08:00 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 09:08:42 -!- mehltau [~user@178.112.72.204.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:12 http://i.imgur.com/NWlx5vp.png 09:13:29 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:13:48 zorkmoid: for CPP code (unfinished, apparently) and generally a reference in parsing barcodes, you might want to look at zxing 09:14:15 http://code.google.com/p/zxing/ 09:14:25 Qworkescence: haha 09:14:29 :) 09:18:37 morphling [~stefan@77.0.61.158] has joined #lisp 09:18:46 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:20:18 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.214.172.117] has left #lisp 09:21:06 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:21:42 H4ns: I didn't advocate rewriting in lisp ... just pointed at an available solution. 09:21:50 -!- googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:22:53 loke_erc [~user@c-4957e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:23:19 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:29:38 Gurragchaa [uid6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rpthrbykptmyebzz] has joined #lisp 09:29:53 -!- cades [~mac@59-124-92-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:30:02 PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-layzugvfnjxybrrx] has joined #lisp 09:30:46 SeanTAllen [uid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-akglfgcxmxtaupuw] has joined #lisp 09:32:23 cades [~mac@59-124-92-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:45 p_l: thanks 09:33:00 zorkmoid, you never showed me CLIM screenshots 09:33:05 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:33:27 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:33:38 Qworkescence: clim screenshots? 09:33:41 NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jdonvdavctmyfnrx] has joined #lisp 09:33:58 zorkmoid, screenshots of CLIM apps you've written or deploted 09:33:59 yed* 09:34:10 Qworkescence: oh! right, sorry! 09:34:19 Qworkescence: i forgot 09:34:39 Qworkescence: oh right, you had that CLIM application for the CL database used by the fingerprint scanner, right? 09:34:42 Qworkescence: got an email address? 09:34:47 Could you make some screenshots? :) 09:35:00 p_l, yes, it was the best database editor you've ever seen 09:35:19 ooo, I wanna see too, in that case. 09:35:36 p_l, and no, unfortunately I cannot take screenshots, because i no longer have access to the c o d e 09:35:48 ;_; 09:35:58 no longer at secure outcomes? 09:36:10 that is correct 09:36:12 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:27 doomlord [~doomlod@81.159.234.112] has joined #lisp 09:36:37 hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 09:36:37 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 09:36:38 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 09:39:28 myx [~myx@pppoe-206-149-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 09:41:11 zorkmoid, yes, (concatenate 'string "quad" '(#\@) "symbo1ics" #(#\.) "com") 09:41:36 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 09:41:43 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Client Quit] 09:42:19 Qworkescence: still, the design you wrote about in your paper about it is very intriguing for me. 09:42:45 Been thinking of doing something similar with postgresql (with stored procedures etc.) and perec (or a variation on it) 09:43:23 p_l, well if you ever want to talk about it, i'm more than willing 09:43:51 what paper ? 09:43:59 Qworkescence: thanks! 09:44:04 browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.171.158] has joined #lisp 09:44:11 fe[nl]ix, the thing i presented at ilc 09:44:27 aha 09:45:00 http://arxiv.org/abs/1209.5625 09:48:09 how did you manage to put it there ? 09:48:25 you just submit it 09:48:42 sign in find submit buttan 09:48:47 push buttan receev bacon etc 09:49:18 :D 09:50:30 -!- drdo [~user@2a02:2498:e000:20::16f:2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:57 -!- cnl [~pony@bitdiddle.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:59:06 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 10:07:26 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 10:08:47 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 10:15:58 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@81.159.234.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:17:50 hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 10:19:06 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-005-186.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:11 -!- waveman [~tim@101.174.161.170] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:21:25 waveman [~tim@101.174.161.170] has joined #lisp 10:22:04 jarmond [~user@137.205.183.65] has joined #lisp 10:23:15 -!- i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Fug!] 10:23:25 i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:23:30 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:25:32 doomlord [~doomlod@81.159.234.112] has joined #lisp 10:25:33 bitonic [~user@dyn1218-180.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:26:51 -!- sklr_ is now known as sklr 10:33:48 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-3.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:33:51 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@quickdocs.org] has joined #lisp 10:35:33 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.171.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:36:58 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@quickdocs.org] has quit [Client Quit] 10:37:21 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@quickdocs.org] has joined #lisp 10:37:22 is there anything like CASE and ECASE, but that tests on EQUAL 10:37:29 (i want to branch on strings) 10:38:29 alexandria:switch allows to choose the test 10:39:50 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:40:31 jarmond: perfect, thanks! 10:41:53 sabayonuser [~sabayonus@183.14.19.116] has joined #lisp 10:42:44 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 10:43:57 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115.64.180.132] has joined #lisp 10:44:10 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 10:45:30 browndawg [~browndawg@117.208.67.96] has joined #lisp 10:47:29 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: going to moon brb] 10:47:45 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 10:51:23 what is the significance of 'whole' in the documentation for alexandria:switch? it doesn't appear in my slime hint... 10:52:05 It captures the whole of the arguments. 10:52:17 So it is not part of the calling interface. 10:52:37 Zhivago: is that a general CL thing? or just alexandria? 10:53:45 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:54:28 general 10:54:50 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 10:55:38 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.25.200] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:01:18 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 11:02:12 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.208.67.96] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:03:11 cades_ [~mac@59.124.92.13] has joined #lisp 11:03:48 -!- cades_ [~mac@59.124.92.13] has quit [Client Quit] 11:05:13 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:05:50 -!- cades [~mac@59-124-92-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:08:34 It's like &rest. 11:08:39 Only more so. :) 11:09:49 -!- sabayonuser is now known as hao 11:10:02 -!- hao is now known as hy 11:13:54 Yuuhi` [benni@pD9F98322.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:13 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:15:21 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 11:15:25 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5DC62B4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:15:30 -!- hy is now known as hyoung 11:16:35 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:17:36 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:18:41 -!- jarmond [~user@137.205.183.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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[~sabayonus@183.14.19.116] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:52 LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 13:15:21 sabayonuser [~sabayonus@183.14.19.116] has joined #lisp 13:15:22 -!- sabayonuser is now known as hao 13:15:31 -!- cades [~mac@60.245.65.130] has quit [Client Quit] 13:17:05 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:17:55 -!- hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:20:25 hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 13:20:59 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:31 redim [~redim@83.33.83.125] has joined #lisp 13:22:51 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:24:19 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 13:26:02 ogamita [~t@62.23.193.34] has joined #lisp 13:28:52 -!- antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:29:52 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 13:31:24 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:01 brnhck [~hrk@219.117.195.167.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 13:34:49 drmeister [~drmeister@108.52.166.246] has joined #lisp 13:37:56 -!- ivan4th [~user@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:38:44 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 13:42:09 -!- brnhck [~hrk@219.117.195.167.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Quit: brnhck] 13:42:33 -!- hao [~sabayonus@183.14.19.116] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:16 bitonic [~user@dyn1218-180.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:49:36 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 13:49:40 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 13:53:23 i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:53:25 hmph, i need some way to query cl-httpd logs ... hmm.. 13:56:22 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 13:59:17 -!- i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Fug!] 13:59:18 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 14:00:04 -!- agumonkey is now known as agumonbike 14:01:55 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:07 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:04:09 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-150-021.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:26 i have a function which reads a sexp based file with (read stream) than sends it to ecase, but i get an error "sym fell through ecase, wanted one of some-package::sym" i know i can use keywords but i want to use symbols. 14:06:10 nan_: Ensure that *package* is an appropriate value when calling READ. 14:06:50 Xach: checking it now, thanks! 14:08:04 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:08:12 clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:08:58 i was calling this function from another package, *package* is pointing that package yes :) 14:09:15 there are a few different ways to ensure that a string is mapped by READ to the symbol you want 14:09:22 cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:30 changing *package* is one option, exporting and inheriting is another, importing is another 14:10:05 dnolen [~user@206.48.23.226] has joined #lisp 14:11:01 exporting symbols is not that practical for me now, changing *package* sounds much better, i'll put it right next to *read-eval* nil! 14:11:36 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 14:11:44 Just curious, why isn't it practical? 14:13:13 masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 14:14:12 this function will be parsing tons of symbols and they will be used only in that function, practical was not the right word i guess 14:17:28 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.69.17] has joined #lisp 14:19:05 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-91-164.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:09 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:23:52 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@108.52.166.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:54 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5AF50CB9.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:19 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5AF501E4.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:31:32 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:31:57 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:41 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-2.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:43:07 stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:51 -!- masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:47:44 -!- agumonbike is now known as agumonkeat 14:48:58 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:34 hey. we were talking in here about sbcl-on-arm and abcl and ccl and other paths to running lisp on Android 14:49:59 i'm reading about this androidy-based Ouya game console thats supposedly coming in june 14:52:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:52:50 esr [~chatzilla@static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:26 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 14:53:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:54:49 sabayonuser2 [~sabayonus@183.14.19.116] has joined #lisp 14:55:05 -!- sabayonuser2 is now known as hyoung 14:56:30 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:57:02 -!- hyoung [~sabayonus@183.14.19.116] has quit [Client Quit] 14:57:32 dto, CMUCL-on-arm is currently in progress 14:57:37 we all know how much we love CMUCL 14:58:08 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:21 actually i have no idea what CPU ouya uses. gotta keep researching :) 14:58:25 hello Qworkescence 14:58:35 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:36 hello 15:01:20 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:10 masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 15:03:18 dto: supposedly, 1.7Ghz, quadcore Cortex-A9 ARM. 15:03:51 dto: and perhaps that is an nvidia tegra3. 15:06:40 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-150-021.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:44 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 15:09:02 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:10:20 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.161] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:11:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping 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i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 15:33:33 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 15:33:38 pkkm [~pawel@83.20.15.125] has joined #lisp 15:34:31 madrik [~user@122.168.208.78] has joined #lisp 15:35:18 Has anyone messed around with the ECL generic function dispatching code? 15:35:56 In other words. Does anyone understand the ECL generic function dispatching code which is implemented in C. 15:36:16 only its author, I'm afraid 15:36:41 in slime sldb there is 'v' sldb-show-source, is there a switch-to-source command that i failed to find? 15:37:03 fe[nl]ix: I've emailed Juan. 15:37:33 fe[nl]ix: At least I think I have. I couldn't find his email address but I found what appears to be an ECL wiki that let me submit a message to him. 15:37:34 nan_: v is supposed to open the source file in a new frame 15:37:54 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:38:27 k0001 [~k0001@host195.190-137-206.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:38:40 fe[nl]ix: it just highlights it, doesn't switch to it, i am guessing there are ways to easy jump between frames in emacs that i am also not familiar with. 15:38:57 so they omitted such a functionality 15:39:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:42:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:42:56 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 15:42:59 Xach: re: latest lisp hint  I stole it, made VALUE optional, defaulting to *, and had it return VALUE  makes it quick to check a previous result in different bases. Also added (:RADIX r &optional (value *) size). 15:43:22 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Client Quit] 15:43:36 the defaulting to * thing I stole from one of your earlier posts, of course :) 15:43:39 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 15:43:51 nice! 15:44:28 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 15:44:38 I'm a little sad that I have to wrap up my keyword functions in an error handler in my ~/.lispworks 15:44:45 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 15:47:59 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-59-158.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 15:48:51 wheelsucker [~user@168.114.240.151] has joined #lisp 15:49:07 Xach: I pull all my init file stuff into an ASDF system, too. Since it depends on external-program and quickproject, and just to modularize it a bit. My init file just sets up QL, then loads alexandria and my interactive-utilities system. 15:49:13 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 15:49:27 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-59-158.xnet.hr] has quit [Client Quit] 15:49:52 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-59-158.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 15:50:00 drmeister: use the ecl mail list. 15:51:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:51:17 -!- optikalmouse [~user@gw.trapeze.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:29 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:51:46 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 15:52:54 drmeister: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ecls-list 15:53:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:53:25 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has left #lisp 15:54:39 brucem: sounds like a decent cpu/gpu 15:54:50 drmeister: https://sourceforge.net/search/index.php?group_id=30035&type_of_search=mlists&q=generic+function+dispatch&ml_name%5B%5D=ecls-list&posted_date_start=&posted_date_end=&form_submit=Search 15:56:15 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:56:20 dto: eh  by then the Tegra4 will be out (or is that out already?). And the Tegra3 is a bit underpowered as it is for games. We'll see though. Could be a nice box for Lisp for you. 15:57:43 -!- cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:57:57 MoALTz [~no@host86-137-168-140.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:58:33 cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:07 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:35 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:23 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 16:02:22 -!- cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:24 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 16:02:47 cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:50 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:50 -!- redim [~redim@83.33.83.125] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:11 cades_ [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:34 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:10:24 -!- xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:11:20 -!- asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:11:32 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-137-168-140.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:12:20 -!- cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:12:24 xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 16:12:32 -!- xristos is now known as Guest431 16:13:05 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-137-168-140.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:16:22 -!- cades_ [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:16:50 cades_ [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:27 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:23:15 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 16:25:49 -!- cades_ [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:30 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-137-168-140.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:26:34 cades_ [~mac@61.70.191.50] has joined #lisp 16:27:07 MoALTz [~no@host86-137-168-140.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:28:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:28:38 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 16:29:04 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:30:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:30:18 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:03 hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 16:31:03 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 16:31:03 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 16:31:33 ogamita: I just posted a couple of messages to the ECL mailing list. One asking for information on how generic functions are dispatched and how the generic function cache works and another announcing my new Common Lisp implementation. 16:31:51 -!- cades_ [~mac@61.70.191.50] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:27 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.208.78] has quit [Quit: ZZzz..] 16:32:35 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:32:36 cades_ [~mac@61.70.191.50] has joined #lisp 16:34:12 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:30 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:56 -!- cades_ [~mac@61.70.191.50] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:05 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:37:20 cades_ [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:00 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read 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17:25:25 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 17:27:59 gigamonkey [~textual@50.1.48.160] has joined #lisp 17:28:11 eldariof [~CLD@188.168.245.233] has joined #lisp 17:28:40 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:30:02 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-ugxulneibgmwjohs] has joined #lisp 17:30:05 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 17:30:18 dioxirane [~ItsyBitsy@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 17:33:33 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:39 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-25-155.2074707925.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:36:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:37:34 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.32.136.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:38:56 lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has joined #lisp 17:38:57 -!- dioxirane [~ItsyBitsy@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:39:09 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:40:02 i8ul8r [i8ul8r@85.231.30.250] has joined #lisp 17:40:28 -!- i8ul8r [i8ul8r@85.231.30.250] has quit [Client Quit] 17:40:39 i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:41:02 -!- i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 17:42:37 supported way to change directory temporarily in asdf/driver before doing asdf/driver:run-program ? 17:42:43 (asdf/driver:chdir ) ? 17:43:48 oh I see call-with-current-directory 17:44:04 or with-current-directory 17:44:06 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 17:45:37 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-25-155.2074707925.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:02 so the final form in ASDF3 is going to be: 17:46:13 (uiop:with-current-directory  ) 17:46:43 this is in lieu of a :directory keyword argument to uiop:run-program 17:46:54 redim [~redim@83.33.83.125] has joined #lisp 17:47:26 dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 17:48:48 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-27.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:48:58 -!- dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 17:50:46 (uiop:with-current-directory (my-program-directory) (uiop:run-program "my-program " )) 17:51:02 looks clean & neat to me 17:51:23 -!- benny [~user@31.193.133.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:51:27 current? 17:52:01 -!- cades_ [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:52:23 is that shorthand for with-current-directory-being or something? 17:53:21 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-ugxulneibgmwjohs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:53:24 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 17:53:43 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 17:53:55 "Call BODY while the POSIX current working directory is set to DIR" 17:54:23 -!- dnolen [~user@206.48.23.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:54:33 yes, with-current-directory-being would describe more precisely what it is doing 17:54:48 I wonder if it's a parallel with scheme 17:55:16 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:52 well it looks quite similar to https://gist.github.com/dhess/61318 17:57:47 the name was a bit confusing when I first saw it, because it sounds like it just does some body with the directory set to the current cwd 17:58:25 but if you think about it for a few seconds that would be quite redundant and unneeded, since that is already the definition of cwd 17:58:47 right. 17:59:32 Bike [~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:56 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-204-176-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:01:07 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read 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seconds] 18:27:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:28:28 gendl: uiop is an annoying package name to type on dvorak :/ 18:28:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:30:50 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 18:31:00 is common-lisp.net down? 18:32:35 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:32:56 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1218-180.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:34:37 looks like it 18:34:50 drewc: ^ 18:35:53 dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 18:36:43 ok, looking into it 18:37:55 madnificent: I suppose asdf is no picnic either. 18:38:02 on Dvorak. 18:38:08 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:40:00 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:40:56 gendl: Dvorak the Czech composer? 18:41:18 gendl: it's much less bad. 18:42:05 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:43:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:44:42 dioxirane: in case you were not joking, no the keyboard layout 18:46:11 madnificent: the music it's not a joke! ... It's art :) 18:46:52 dioxirane: but the composer is Dvorjak 18:47:56 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:48:20 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 18:48:44 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest60442 18:49:33 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:52:01 -!- Guest60442 is now known as PuercoPop` 18:52:25 -!- PuercoPop` is now known as PuercoPop 18:52:38 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@81.159.234.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:58:01 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-60.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:26 devin_ [devin_@unaffiliated/devin/x-7957978] has joined #lisp 18:59:35 antonv: you're saying dioxirane needs toe Czech his spelling? 19:00:14 -!- masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:00:38 toe? 19:00:44 to 19:00:54 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-115-121.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:21 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 19:01:31 masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 19:02:12 -!- MoALTz__ is now known as MoALTz 19:03:42 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-62-119.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:04:42 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:05:42 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 19:05:56 jasom_: well original name apparently uses ascended r and a, transliterating it to basic latin as Dvorak by just removing ascent marks is not "correct" 19:07:42 antonv: I always wondered how the accent should be transliterated. Good to know... and jasom is a horrible person. 19:07:47 antonv: sure, like the Jacobian opera 19:07:59 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:08:47 bad puns are the highest form of humor! 19:09:06 -!- masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:10:44 what would cause my asdf system to completely recompile and reload every time? 19:11:05 masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 19:11:06 (asdf:load-op :cl-who) --> instantly returns t 19:11:11 because it is already loaded. 19:11:19 i mean (asdf:load-system :cl-who) 19:11:26 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:11:39 but (asdf:load-system :genworks-gdl) completely recompiles and reloads even though I had just done it... 19:11:45 (asdf:clear-system :cl-who) 19:12:12 well actually I want the opposite. I don't want it to recompile everything for :genworks-gdl. I can't see why it is doing that. 19:12:13 gendl: timestamp from the future on some file, maybe. 19:12:14 strange about genworks, should not be so 19:12:37 bad timestamp on some of my source files? 19:12:38 *jasom_* thought asdf is supposed to reload each time and compile if out of date? 19:13:10 * and was right 19:14:03 ok i'll check the times on all my source files. 19:14:27 i am doing some fancy copying around shared folders on virtual machines, some dates might well be getting confused... 19:14:51 gendl: ntp is your friend; though even it can get confused if you pause a VM for too long 19:14:52 jasom_: no, compile and reload if out of date 19:14:53 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:09 -!- jasom_ is now known as jasom 19:15:26 asdf definitely doesn't reload if it thinks the system is already loaded and up to date. 19:15:35 just try (asdf:load-system :cl-who) 19:15:39 or (ql:quickload :cl-who) 19:15:51 twice in a row, you'll see the second time it just returns T instantly. 19:16:14 good to know; I knew it only compiled when out-of-date; I didn't know it did the same for loading 19:20:33 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:21:18 -!- masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:21:36 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:22:41 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 19:22:48 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:04 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 19:24:06 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 19:24:17 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:27:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:31:26 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:32:09 -!- dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 19:32:34 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 19:33:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:33:50 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.86] has joined #lisp 19:36:01 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:36:43 -!- meyersh [~meyersh@198.102.147.253] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:37:25 still confusing 19:37:43 (asdf:component-loaded-p :genworks-gdl) => t 19:37:58 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:38:02 and yet (asdf:load-system :genworks-gdl) results in a compile & load of most of the system. 19:39:29 a dependency of one of the component systems is throwing a warning, I'll be that what is doing it... 19:40:08 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:35 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:25 Yep, that was it. 19:42:13 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-138-3.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:03 LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 19:44:23 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:44:26 alama [~jessealam@p57A79511.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:45:32 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:48:27 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 19:48:51 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest13345 19:51:23 -!- Guest13345 is now known as PuercoPop` 19:51:43 -!- PuercoPop` is now known as PuercoPop 19:52:44 mehltau [~user@178.112.72.204.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #lisp 19:52:44 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:58 -!- subtlepath [walker@kindista.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:53:35 -!- yacks 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[~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 20:19:23 -!- mehltau [~user@178.112.72.204.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:20:20 cic [~connolly@Catnip.AI.SRI.COM] has joined #lisp 20:20:40 drewc: what happened ? 20:21:28 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-138-3.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:22:04 -!- alama [~jessealam@p57A79511.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:22:57 fe[nl]ix: apparently issues with that dedicated provider ... they used to be so, now i am the last user of that, and this is the last month apparently. So, yeah, soon cl-net will be moved to alpha.common-lisp.net ... it is just an rsync away. Really my bad for trusting others, and we shall see what the courts decide ;) 20:24:51 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 20:25:12 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 20:26:12 alama [~jessealam@p57A79511.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:26:50 you're suing them ? 20:27:12 -!- techlife [techlife@60.212.33.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:27:26 drewc, contract-law-fu? 20:27:32 drewc, good luck sir 20:29:14 fe[nl]ix: not yet, not yet. ;) 20:31:42 adelgado1 [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:49 Kruppe` [~user@cn-nat2-uw-129-97-124-43.net.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 20:33:05 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:33:11 -!- alama [~jessealam@p57A79511.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:34:05 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-006-067.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:34:35 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:34:54 techlife [techlife@60.212.33.102] has joined #lisp 20:34:55 -!- techlife [techlife@60.212.33.102] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:35:35 techlife [techlife@60.212.33.102] has joined #lisp 20:35:35 -!- techlife [techlife@60.212.33.102] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:35:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:36:31 techlife [~jimmy@60.212.33.102] has joined #lisp 20:36:32 -!- techlife [~jimmy@60.212.33.102] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:37:06 techlife [~jimmy@60.212.33.102] has joined #lisp 20:37:07 -!- techlife [~jimmy@60.212.33.102] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:37:21 alama [~jessealam@p57A79511.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:37:44 techlife [~jimmy@60.212.33.102] has joined #lisp 20:37:45 -!- techlife [~jimmy@60.212.33.102] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:38:19 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-240-161.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:23 techlife [~jimmy@60.212.33.102] has joined #lisp 20:38:23 -!- techlife [~jimmy@60.212.33.102] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:38:25 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.14.79] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:34 Kruppe`` [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 20:39:19 techlife [~jimmy@60.212.33.102] has joined #lisp 20:39:26 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 20:40:01 -!- Kruppe` [~user@cn-nat2-uw-129-97-124-43.net.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:40:09 chebastian [~chebastia@c-a771e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:40:20 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-229-74.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:40:21 -!- Kruppe`` is now known as Kruppe 20:40:25 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:41:04 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:35 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:33 -!- adelgado1 is now known as adelgado 20:44:00 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 20:45:43 foeniks [~fevon@p5091FFB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:36 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 20:48:54 dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:50:05 dt990 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:50:30 -!- alama [~jessealam@p57A79511.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:50:53 -!- dt990 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 20:51:07 nyef [~nyef@c-76-119-183-159.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:11 dt990 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:51:29 Hello all. 20:51:40 What's the "done thing" for talking to a MySQL database from SBCL? 20:52:16 -!- dt990 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 20:52:36 -!- dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 20:52:47 dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:52:56 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:52:57 nyef: if you just need access and no orm or other fancy things, cl-mysql should do. 20:53:00 clsql is the only thing 20:53:05 ooh 20:53:10 (Specifically, I need to load some data into Amazon RDS, and all of my existing infrastructure is based on postmodern.) 20:53:19 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:53:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:54:09 So... I have two different answers? 20:54:22 -!- dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 20:54:41 nyef: what did you expect? this is #lisp. 20:54:41 dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:55:11 True. 20:55:17 nyef: cl-mysql is rather basic, but it is easy to use. 20:55:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:55:31 nyef: just cons up a few strings with your sql and execute that, done. 20:55:51 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:56:07 Hrm. So, if I use cl-mysql, I might want to see if I can use it in conjunction with postmodern's S-SQL? 20:56:17 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:56:31 might work, might not. 20:56:45 mysql sql is not standard sql, and s-sql does a few things that are postgres-specific 20:57:03 however, i was able to use s-sql to get useful queries to mssql, so maybe it will work ok for you. 20:57:50 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:25 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:31 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:47 Okay, yeah, I'm remembering a few bits and pieces about how S-SQL works in conjunction with postgresql wire encoding, from back when I was trying to get PostGIS data objects into and out of the DB in useful form... 21:02:04 More things like using the E'...' syntax for strings by default. (Maybe that's in the standard... dim might know) 21:02:04 And I have a plan of attack now. Thanks, guys. 21:02:56 *dim* waves while reading the backlog 21:03:39 for talking to MySQL I've been using cl-mysql, an FFI wrapper over the mysqlclientlib, which works 21:04:05 and there's no such thing as standard SQL, in the sense that there's no standard reference implementation 21:04:25 when you think "Standard SQL" think "Standard HTML" and try not to laugh (or cry) 21:04:43 aha, so it's FFI 21:04:54 dim: what are you talking about? Everyone knows that last-night's build of webkit is the HTML reference implementation! 21:04:58 there's also a native driver that a guy posted on usenet a couple of years ago 21:04:59 in PostgreSQL there's the standard_escape_string setting which is important, then the E'' notation allows to override any setting for the current literal 21:05:11 but the last time I looked it was LW-only 21:05:26 that was art obrezan's iirc 21:06:01 anyway don't use escaping when talking to an SQL service from your code 21:06:50 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:57 you the protocol and librairi facilities to send in the parameters out of band, in libpq it's pqQueryParams and it's available in the protocol, and I think that's what postmodern uses by default but didn't check much, I now realize that I did simply trust it 21:07:41 Yeah, pomo tends to use E'' by default. I don't even know how to turn it off. 21:07:56 There's a special 21:08:08 But you have to set it before macroexpansion 21:08:10 pomo has bugs, some of them can be nasty, but none of them seem to be there. 21:08:29 At least, none of the ones I've been bitten by are there. 21:09:51 dim: I'm a common lisper, so when I say "standard", I mean "described by a document issued by a standards body", not "matching what a reference implementation does" 21:10:03 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:29 true that 21:10:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.169.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:10:34 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:50 but there's not a single SQL implementation fully conformant to the SQL standard, because of the way it works in the standard body 21:12:07 It's not like we expect fully conformant common lisp implementations, either. 21:12:18 I mean, just consider the PROG2 bug... 21:12:34 that's why the W3 group has removed the idea of standardizing SQL in the browser, even though all of the browsers now bundle SQLite. W3 pulled out because they didn't want a document that basically described SQLiteeveryone is using a common implementation 21:12:58 Or how many implementations actually implement ARRAY NIL. 21:13:31 there's a second implementation, which probably nobody uses 21:13:34 whartung: I thought it was because IndexedDB was consider more hip. 21:13:50 -!- devin_ [devin_@unaffiliated/devin/x-7957978] has quit [] 21:13:54 Dunno about that -- i'm the last person to talk to about "hip" 21:14:02 save that I have 2 of my own... 21:14:16 ... still able to see past your pelvis? 21:14:44 I can see my toes when I'm lying down -- does that count? 21:15:06 sykopomp: IndexedDB also has cleaner API (which can be implemented by *anything* behind the scenes, and is, in fact, implemented with SQLite I think at least on Firefox) 21:15:29 p_l: I wish there was a relational db API, though :( 21:15:35 Recommendation needed - I need to parse and generate RFC822-format mailboxes in CL. MIME capability is *not* required. What's good, fast, and documented? 21:16:19 sykopomp: well, technically, one could write that a certain set of SQL with APIs was supposed to be available 21:18:28 esr: There isn't anything I know of like that under active development. And the name of the moribund thing escapes me at the moment. 21:19:21 esr, piping to procmail 21:19:51 ah yes, MEL-BASE is the thing I couldn't think of earlier. 21:19:52 http://www.cliki.net/mel-base ? 21:20:06 *drewc* was one ms too slow! 21:20:18 weirdo: No, I need to be able to parse RFC822. 21:20:24 ms here, ms there, pretty soon we're talking real time... 21:20:25 I can't tell from the description if that's what it does. 21:20:27 OT, mel-base has incomplete (i.e. too abstract) IMAP support :( 21:20:30 googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:20:53 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:21:33 the problem of course is that writing an 80-85% mbox parser is easy, it's that last 15% that's a pain, even though 99% of mail falls in to the 80-85% range 21:21:48 esr, that takes care of the hard part - locking mailbox for write, etc 21:22:02 esr: At any rate, there's no clear, standout, if-that's-what-you-need library to do that. I did what whartung said and made an 80% solution for a single application. 21:22:17 esr, in case of parsing email addresses and FQDN terms, i'd use CL-PPCRE regexen thus earning the ire of the community 21:22:26 heh 21:22:39 *weirdo* defers to better judgement 21:22:45 *jasom* has actually seen a correct perl RE for recognizing an e-mail address. 21:23:02 it was very long 21:23:06 jasom, i wrote one, years ago, even handled apostrophes and -- before idn was invented 21:23:10 well it boils down to the actual use case and whether the 80% solution and regexs will work 21:23:23 sorry, handled single hyphen only 21:23:56 *whartung* is a firm believer in the "now you have 2 problems" nature of regexes 21:24:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:24:12 dropped it somewhere on exim-users 21:24:16 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:24:55 whartung: I don't have to deal with the hard cases, not even locking. What's actually going on is that I have a list of data structures I want to deserialize into an mbox-like format for comfortable editing by humans, then reserialize into the equivalent structures. Might be simplest to just write the parser myself. 21:25:18 esr, see cl-serializer then, but not cl-store 21:25:21 jasom: it actually doesn't parse *all* compliant addresses 21:25:39 mbox like format as "bunch of name value pairs and a blob of text" or is the "blob of text" also structured? 21:25:40 oh, for human editing, sorry! 21:26:05 jasom: I used one! in 2000 or so ... it was a very long RE indeed :) 21:26:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:26:06 clhs write 21:26:06 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_pr.htm 21:26:19 why not the pretty printer with appropriate keyword arguments? 21:26:21 p_l: http://ex-parrot.com/~pdw/Mail-RFC822-Address.html 21:27:09 whartung: It's "bunch of name value pairs and a blob of text" 21:27:13 -!- pkkm [~pawel@83.20.15.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:27:15 mbox is reasonably robust against multi thumbed humans, it's fundamental delimiter is "From" 21:27:52 You could write something at this point faster than you can hunt down a lib I bet at this point 21:27:56 jasom: it doesn't handle comments :) 21:28:00 jasom: as the page states :) 21:28:04 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-2.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:28:04 damn 21:28:22 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 21:28:35 gee, what a bikeshed 21:28:36 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:44 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/201323/using-a-regular-expression-to-validate-an-email-address/1917982#1917982 <- I'm not sure you can call that a regex anymore 21:29:36 Actual use case: it's reposurgeon, if you've heard of that. I'm experimentally translating it from Python into CL to see if compilation gives me better performance. The mbox elements are commit metadata and comments in the repo being edited. So, so actual mail handling at all. 21:30:04 s/so actual/no actual/ 21:30:09 esr: what about coding a quick parser? 21:30:14 with something like esrap and such? 21:30:29 p_l: Yeah, I'll probably end up doing that. 21:30:44 *esr* looks for esrap 21:30:47 esr, do you know of PyPy? 21:31:02 also, love the idea of reposurgeon, if I had known about it before using git-svn to load a several hundred commits branches and tags of my work project... 21:31:02 esr, it'll give you near-Lisp performance with minimum hassle 21:31:17 weirdo: ... I'm putting that in fortunes 21:32:01 weirdo: Hm. Last time I looked at PyPy it only handled a subset of Python too small for my needs. 21:32:16 esr, look again. it now runs django, et al. 2.0-b1 is released, 1.9 stable 21:32:26 it works on all 'major' platforms 21:32:35 *p_l* might need to relearn Python sometime soon 21:32:35 is it faster to port to CL vs the PyPy subset? 21:32:45 p_l: Year, the reposurgeon architecture turned out to be a big win, but it's a horrible pig on large repos. 21:33:07 p_l: I rewrote part of git-svn to be much faster in the case of large-numbers of branches. 21:33:14 weirdo: I'll give it a look. 21:33:26 esr: still better than 3 days (and one OOM error) with git-svn over network :> 21:33:35 milanj [~milanj_@82.117.199.26] has joined #lisp 21:33:45 p_l: gave a 20000x speedup on my repo at work 21:33:56 and there's proposal at work to migrate all of it to Git 21:34:05 esr: text i/o sluggishness could eat up any gains from compilation. 21:34:06 (so we can actually branch properly) 21:34:34 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:40 it will be probably tomorrow 21:34:46 It's true, reposurgeon is faster than ay of the other conversion tools, but it's still dog-slow once you get above 50K commits. 21:34:47 -!- milosn_ is now known as milosn 21:35:06 But I'll look into PyPy. 21:35:07 esr: we have less than that, but some binary stuff and branches created by hudson builds 21:35:28 I think the branches were the killer, given how git-svn used to load them verbatim 21:35:48 why is it so slow? commit format? having to load them all in to do anything at all? 21:36:04 their site seems to be down 21:36:04 esr, main issue is with cpython-specific C extensions 21:36:14 esr, there's a new standard being developed that enough-impl-agnostic 21:36:15 whartung: basically, imagine doing a full copy of each version and redoing the diffs locallyu 21:36:19 *locally 21:36:37 that's the git-svn issue 21:36:38 so, O(n^eleventy) operations... 21:36:42 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:55 whartung: The SVN analysis phases is rwally expensive. 21:37:09 whartung: and O(n) network traffic 21:37:14 is that CPU? Or simply I/O? 21:37:16 whartung: it really sucks over network 21:37:26 whartung, time 21:37:28 can you bring the rep locally for file:/// access? 21:38:15 esr, also, i wasn't joking about using CL:WRITE 21:38:17 the point being if it's I/O heavy, compiling may have not much impact at all 21:38:26 esr, it produces nice output, if configured correctly 21:39:01 it's still a sensitive syntax weirdo, mbox is pretty simply and hard to mess up unless they go delete delimiter lines 21:39:09 esr: also don't load file-names from svn into lisp pathnames; I tried that and it barfed on a file name with a "*" in it 21:39:16 ok 21:40:41 whartung: No, the expensive part is analyzing the topology out of Subversion stream files after the nodes have been parsed into core. The I/O cost of the parse isn't too bad but the topo analysis (compute-bound) is really expensive. 21:40:52 ok 21:41:30 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5AF50CB9.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:43:21 milosn [~milosn@user-5AF50CB9.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:46:09 Exploring CL is interesting. I'm a Lisper from waaaaay back, so far back that all my non-Emacs Lisp experience actually *predates* CL. So learning CLOS and all the other "modern" stuff is kind of a reveltion. 21:46:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:47:00 the difference is that you probably get it, unlike aged professors with scripts written in 80s on purloined early-70s implementations... 21:47:06 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:47:13 clhs amop 21:47:13 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for amop. 21:47:16 oops. 21:47:29 esr, you know AMOP, the book, right? 21:47:47 ... I kinda should do some light reading. Like Skiena. Busy day tomorrow 21:47:48 minion: amop? 21:47:49 amop: The Art of the Metaobject Protocol, an essential book for understanding the implementation of CLOS and advanced OO. See the sepcification of MOP at http://www.alu.org/mop/ 21:48:31 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 21:48:40 Yeah, I'll probably have to read AMOP but haven't yet. 21:48:53 esr: catb.org is down 21:48:55 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest61999 21:49:17 I think I gert CLOS, but I find its insistence on exposing generics a bit irritating. 21:49:34 esr: have you already gone through PCL? it can be a nice refresher, and it keeps to more modern aspects 21:49:41 why irritating ? 21:49:43 esr, exporting? 21:49:45 fe[nl]ix: Uh oh. That means ibiblio.org is tits-up. 21:49:54 *p_l* still uses it for reference a lot 21:50:03 chrisdone_ [~chrisdone@93-39-100-56.ip75.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 21:50:09 -!- Guest61999 is now known as PuercoPop 21:50:24 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.227.55.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:50:25 esr: I wanted to update my copy of coverity-submit 21:50:44 PCL = Practical Common Lisp? Yes, I'm reading that. 21:50:51 another excellent book 21:51:04 gigamonkey, hi! 21:51:04 Yes, it is. 21:51:07 by our resident gigamonkey, too 21:51:19 gigamonkey: are you coming to ECLM/ELS ? 21:51:27 harj [~harj@199.87.82.110] has joined #lisp 21:51:39 any of you guys remember ircbrowse.com and who the admin of the site was? the domain's got privacy protection, figure someone here must've known the guy 21:52:04 Semi-Lisp Machine related question. Are there any other interpreted languages has ever made significant strides to writing a whole OS in it? 21:52:21 youlysses: Smalltalk comes immediately to mind. 21:52:37 youlysses: the CL used on LispM wasn't exactly interpreted (well, there was evaluator, too) 21:52:39 interpreted language? 21:52:49 Same hardware as some of the lisp machines, in fact. 21:52:49 chrisdone_: it's kevin rosenberg, but he took down the service a few years ago 21:53:06 youlysses: but lisp used in LispMs was actually compiled 21:53:08 nyef: I know they have a self contained environment, but is it fully bootable by its own means? 21:53:31 Dylan, maybe. Wasn't dylan used as OS for some dedicated bit of (apple newton) hardware? 21:53:32 youlysses: the cpus were microcoded, but that's common for that era (and a lot of modern chips as well) 21:53:50 heh x86 is microcode 21:53:53 in amd64 21:54:02 p_l: Ah, fair enough. I was trying to disqualify something as obvious as UNIX from the fray. :-P 21:54:23 fe[nl]ix: cool. is that this guy? http://www.kevinrosenberg.com/ (definitely this guy http://blog.b9.com/archives.html as it has lispy blogs) 21:54:30 youlysses: as for bootstrap, some used separate "console" computers to boot (i.e. load initial code from disk to memory etc.) 21:54:39 youlysses: also, a common practice for some bigger machines 21:54:49 (with mainframes doing so to this day) 21:55:47 fe[nl]ix: ah, found him here: http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/UNOFFICIAL/docs/kmrcl/changelog.html  Kevin Rosenberg 21:55:50 Just found one in Haskell. http://programatica.cs.pdx.edu/House/ 21:56:14 nyef: Ralph, iirc, which mikel evins describes as "scheme + clos" 21:56:16 youlysses: there was at least one more, afaik, a multi-cpu machine built in Glasgow or Edinburgh 21:56:31 fe[nl]ix: i wanna resurrect the service under the same name =) 21:56:57 bye 21:57:00 -!- weirdo [sthalik@kronstadt.misaki.pl] has left #lisp 21:57:10 youlysses: there were some lisps that ran without any other OS involved, including at least one Lisp-OS that was created by accident 21:57:26 (that is, on non-dedicated hawrdware) 21:57:56 fe[nl]ix: We;ll, that's disturbing. The main ibiblio server is up by my site isn't. I'm guessing somebody stepped on the Apache virtual config. 21:58:23 p_l: Like written directly to run on top of a certain arch, or something else? 21:58:43 youlysses: like "boots like any other OS" 21:59:40 Nokolisp being a crazy case where DOS that ran on the machine got its files corrupted and the author used his lisp environment to program missing bits and boot directly into lisp 22:00:09 (it was on a phone, too) 22:00:10 I'm really still not sure what defines something as a LispM OS compared to an implementation that's written right on x86 or the like (if there's any). 22:00:11 chrisdone_: good luck then :) 22:00:30 esr: hopefully they didn't delete the site itself 22:00:31 youlysses: LispM's were defined by having hw support for various operations 22:00:33 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:00:38 -!- googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:00:45 p_l: well many DOS programs essentially ran on bare-metal. 22:00:52 youlysses: the same way there was a "Java chip" 22:01:16 p_l: So basically, the interaction it has with the hardware is a big deciding factor. 22:01:36 jasom: the thing is that the DOS got broken to the point of not booting right, and Noko used his lisp to implement the missing bits to the point it was the only "OS" ;) 22:01:59 TSRs! 22:02:00 youlysses: more like you can have a Lisp OS on generic hw and a LispOS running on specialized hw 22:02:15 -!- harj [~harj@199.87.82.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:19 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.86] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:02:30 drewc: I've seen programs that wanted more real-mode RAM so unloaded TSRs and reloaded them at the end 22:02:34 youlysses: similar case to the latter would be Azul Systems coprocessors (now replaced by better code generator for amd64, afaik) 22:02:45 Ah. 22:03:00 harj [~harj@199.87.82.110] has joined #lisp 22:03:12 jasom: heh ... I actually learned how to program that way ... it was double dragon on the IBM XT portable. 22:03:49 (and also LSL, but I am not suppose to say that I loved those games! :)) 22:03:55 youlysses: btw, Genera got ported to Alpha by making a very optimized binary that acted as "microcode" layer of the original chip (Ivory) and also exposed a set of familiar I/O interfaces 22:04:54 fe[nl]ix: sent him a mail. cheers! 22:04:57 (Alpha's predecessor, VAX, was majorly microcoded, btw, just like CADR-derived LispMs) 22:05:06 p_l: Oh, cool! 22:05:08 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-aahwqncdhvfdvtoi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:05:52 p_l: and x86-64? ;) 22:05:52 youlysses: reading the Alpha disassembly of the Virtual Lisp Machine can be a very educational endeavour 22:06:03 drewc: x86-64 isn't fully microcoded 22:06:06 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-62-119.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:06:15 I know, but Genera was ported to it! 22:06:31 -!- clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 22:06:50 *drewc* is just saying that simply because it is the only LispOS he has/uses :) 22:06:51 drewc: snap4 is ... a very weird way of implementing an Alpha->x86-64 binary translator ;) 22:07:03 I have a buddy who is contemplating trying to use a Zedboard to build a Lisp Machine...inVerilog. :-) 22:07:20 drewc: n.b. there was an official port to PPC and x86-64, afaik 22:07:31 but didn't get anywhere (and is of dubious legality) 22:08:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:08:16 On an unrelated note, are there any sketching and/or animation tools written out-there either primary written in and/or extended in a dialect? I've been thinking of doing one for a side-project. 22:08:20 Yeah, one problem with all of the old LispM stuff is the legality of the source and binary images one starts from. 22:08:41 p_l: I will not mention what I have then ;) 22:08:49 nyef: not quite, the ones release by the MIT should be entirely legal 22:09:01 and the kmachine code too 22:09:02 esr: doing pcl for doing a project you got planned in lisp or just 'for learning's sake'? 22:09:41 Okay, I'll believe that. 22:10:01 chrisdone_: I'm experimentally translating reposurgeon into CL hoping for better performance from compilation. 22:10:09 nyef: just not the symbolics code 22:10:33 I suspect symbolics' code might be viable to get the copyrights voided 22:10:42 I still remember some of the work involved in the Explorer systems... 22:11:01 esr: might I suggest using IOlib ? 22:11:08 chrisdone_: Also, well, Lisp is my roots. It's about time I caught up with what you guys have been up to since ....1978. (All my lisp since then has been Emacs modes.) 22:12:04 (And I wrote a crap-ton of Emacs modes. But still.) 22:12:38 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:54 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 22:12:58 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:06 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:13:08 heh, true, i elisp every day but i tend to omit it when i count my lisp programming =) 22:13:12 No, I misremembered. 1981, not 1978 :-) 22:13:42 1978? what a great year to be born in! 22:14:02 chrisdone_: We have lexical scoping new, so that's a plus. :-P 22:14:40 chrisdone_: At least they're finally getting off the dime about lexical scoping. JWZ and I tried to talk RMS into introducing that in, like, 1987, but he didn't buy it. 22:15:06 Speaking of emacs hacking, is there a good way to do something like "edit all occurances of symbol" rather than doing a query-replace? 22:15:27 esr: i had a quick look for reposurgeon and google links catb.org, but that's down -- so, seemingly, is ibiblio. is that just a random coincidence of maintenance timing or are these being migrated away from? 22:15:28 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:15:40 It's random. 22:16:13 It's highly unusual for that site to be down. I'm filing a bug report. 22:16:14 Calyce [~Calyce@109.89.136.118] has joined #lisp 22:16:46 was it still considered a performance gain in 1987? . o O (that's one of the reasons for non-lexical scoping right?) 22:17:05 ok 22:17:35 chrisdone_: We wanted it not so much for performance but in order to make reasoning about the code easier. 22:17:48 wasn't the reason for no lexical scoping the ability to override internals? (cue monkeypatching issues) 22:17:51 -!- dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Fug!] 22:18:06 dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:18:15 p_l: AFAIK it was basically a historical accident. 22:18:20 nyef: hmm, i also want that. i saw it in sublime text and swear i've seen it for emacs somewhere possibly 'multi selection' was the wording 22:18:38 esr: just seen that bit as explanation for it 22:18:38 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:18:53 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:54 esr: interesting, i thought 'hard to reason about' was one of the main criticisms of dynamic scope? 22:19:15 p_l: Well, lexical scoping does make compiler optimizations easier. 22:19:21 chrisdone_: that's what esr is saying :) 22:19:24 Ideally, I'd like it across multiple files, some of which might not already be open... Using slime-who-calls and slime-who-references or whatever they're called. 22:19:27 esr: hang on, think i misread. you mean you went to rms giving that reason. nod 22:19:41 chrisdone_: Yes, that criticism is correct. You did misread. It's OK. 22:19:45 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:19:57 btw, for all the "we don't do lisp", Google seems to be rather trying to find lisp-knowing interviewers... 22:20:14 p_l: Possibly hiring for ITA? 22:20:23 nyef: no 22:20:43 the job I applied for last year was rather far from ITA most of the time 22:20:48 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:21:00 p_l: Possibly they're hitting a performance ceiling in Python, like I am. 22:21:19 esr: you can try cl-python 22:21:35 still, my phone screen coding actually was done in CL and only then asked to rewrite it in Java, and I was asked for a lisp version of the code I wrote on one of the face-2-face interviews 22:21:50 esr: performance code goes into C/C++ at google 22:21:53 mostly 22:22:03 I suspect Go takes a bit from Python 22:22:28 (the actual reasons for C/C++ were very... specific. Syscall latency) 22:22:42 fe[nl]ix: Doesn't necessarily help if it's just an interpreter. I think I need to compile reposugeon to get the performance up. Gonna try PyPy. 22:23:28 Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 22:23:36 nyef: so like find . -name '*.lisp' | xargs sed 's//' but with the querying on each replacement in emacs? could be a nice feature 22:23:37 esr: btw, have you tried cython? 22:23:38 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:71b6:9541:595b:a04b] has joined #lisp 22:24:04 cl-python is a translator to CL, which then gets compiled 22:24:14 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 22:24:15 p_l: No, is that another attempt at a compiler? 22:24:19 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 22:24:19 nyef: the funniest thing will be if the reason I didn't have today's interview would be that they couldn't find a lisper with free time in EU 22:24:28 esr: it compiles Python to C 22:24:34 fe[nl]ix: Ah, that's much more interesting. 22:24:43 esr: an outgrowth of the PyRex project 22:24:52 nyef: possibly of interest: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/270930/using-emacs-to-recursively-find-and-replace-in-text-files-not-already-open 22:24:54 No, no... I want INTERACTIVE editing of a symbol name in all places simultaneously, using information from SLIME to find the actual references. 22:25:23 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 22:25:27 nyef: ah so seeded by the slime image. k 22:25:30 Specifically, I do NOT want query/replace. 22:25:31 -!- Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 22:25:57 linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 22:26:08 Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 22:26:52 Hrm... Actually, a non-interactive rename-symbol function might work. 22:26:54 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:59 p_l: OK, cython looks like another good thing for me to try. You guys are doing a pretty good job of talking me out of CL coding! :-) 22:28:07 anyway, cool, look forward to kevin's reply. ciao~ 22:28:09 -!- chrisdone_ [~chrisdone@93-39-100-56.ip75.fastwebnet.it] has left #lisp 22:28:12 esr: I'm pragmatic 22:28:28 esr: it just turns out that I really feel best in CL for last few years ;P 22:29:23 nyef: there's who-calls, but I don't think that information is tracked for variables/constants (... variables could be grovelled ;) 22:29:40 -!- milanj [~milanj_@82.117.199.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:30:40 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0470.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:30:48 pkhuong: It occurs to me that if I can find which files could REFERENCE the symbol, I could use a textual search/replace on them, and because I use one-package-per-file and a few related conventions I should be able to dig the required information out of the package system. 22:30:50 esr: by all means, if you're determined to do it in CL, we can help :) 22:31:10 Well, possibly not with the occasional use of (:import-from "PACKAGE") with no symbols, but... 22:31:35 fe[nl]ix: cython is probably easier, if it actually works. 22:33:12 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:38:11 -!- dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Fug!] 22:38:24 dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:38:26 -!- wheelsucker [~user@168.114.240.151] has quit [Quit: Done!] 22:40:50 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:09 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:43:05 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:35 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:48 -!- harj [~harj@199.87.82.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:31 skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA0363.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:50:44 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.40] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:51:50 -!- morphling [~stefan@77.0.61.158] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:52:13 -!- foeniks [~fevon@p5091FFB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:08 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:54:19 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #lisp 22:54:26 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:36 youlysses: pascal was used to write several OSes. 22:58:27 for example? 22:58:53 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.40] has joined #lisp 22:59:00 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:24 harj [~harj@199.87.82.110] has joined #lisp 23:00:34 or the evolution of pascal 23:00:43 whartung: for example, MacOS, unix-like kernels, and of course, UCSD. 23:00:45 I'm thinking of Oberon 23:01:07 and IIRC there was a Unix clone written in Eiffel 23:01:11 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 23:01:15 At least, more successful OSes were written in Pascal than in C++. 23:01:23 I was thinking of Oberon as well. 23:02:19 I don't know how much of the runtime of UCSD was actually written in pascal -- the tool set was, naturally, but the interpreter certainly isn't 23:02:27 Now of course, I wouldn't advise you to use pascal to write a new kernel. If not lisp, then indeed, something like Modula-3, Eiffel, Modula-2 or Oberon. 23:03:21 whartung: the p-system was written entirely in Pascal AFAIK. They even designed hardware to run the p-code. There was this pascaline computer, kind of a lisp-machine, only for ucsd p-code. 23:03:43 *|3b|* wonders if forth systems count as writing an 'OS' in an 'interpreted' language 23:04:16 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-75.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:37 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 23:04:52 I have the UCSD source around here somewherethe interpreters were machine code ,since the compilers weren't good enough really to write the code tight enough -- plus the compilers were designed to compile to P-Code 23:05:18 -!- linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 23:06:50 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.107.226] has joined #lisp 23:07:18 *drewc* wonders if x86 ASM is interpreted for modern CPUs? 23:09:33 does on-the-fly translation to microcode count ? 23:09:36 -!- Knirr [~Knirr@c-3142e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:09:59 :-) That was going to be my question too. 23:10:15 drewc: not exactly 23:10:16 depending on ones definition of "OS" then Forth would (or would not) count. 23:10:45 some stuff is bypassed with just a bit of reorganization by hw decoder, some is microcoded 23:10:49 some is in-between 23:11:35 googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 23:11:41 Microcoded CPUs just aren't what they used to be. 23:12:01 fe[nl]ix: that is what I was figuring ... translation is not interpreting? some interpreters might disagree with that statement! :) 23:12:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpreter 23:12:28 drewc: some instructions *are* microcoded quite obviously, rest not always 23:12:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:12:31 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:12:32 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-34-78-123.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:12:34 some is just remapped 23:14:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:15:21 so ... surprise vs surprise? (french vs english pronunciation) 23:15:59 or: is that not interpretation? :) 23:16:03 |3b|: "interpreted language" is so dumb an expression, that I just ignore it. 23:16:15 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:16:32 drewc: intel definitely has micro-code on modern processors. 23:17:01 damn, I now have to agree with pjb and |3b| ... it is a dumb expression. 23:17:13 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:17:46 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-006-067.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:18:48 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:20:34 cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-120-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 23:20:49 milanj [~milanj_@cable-94-189-134-216.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 23:21:02 -!- harj [~harj@199.87.82.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:39 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 23:23:11 drewc: not only do they have micro-code, but one micro-code instruction can be more than one assembly-instruction 23:23:11 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:19 so it's not really micro-code 23:24:42 -!- milanj [~milanj_@cable-94-189-134-216.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Client Quit] 23:24:45 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:17 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 23:26:21 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.5] has joined #lisp 23:26:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:27:23 harj [~harj@199.87.82.110] has joined #lisp 23:27:31 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.107.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:03 -!- harj [~harj@199.87.82.110] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:29:25 harj [~harj@199.87.82.110] has joined #lisp 23:31:16 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:31:43 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:52 -!- harj [~harj@199.87.82.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:14 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 23:37:40 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:42 justinmcp [~justinmcp@59.167.212.205] has joined #lisp 23:37:42 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@59.167.212.205] has quit [Client Quit] 23:38:39 -!- agumonkeat [~agu@65.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:38:42 -!- stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:39:38 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:26 justinmcp [justinmcp@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:3fac] has joined #lisp 23:40:46 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:12 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:20 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:06 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-120-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:22 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:41 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:09 cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-225-136.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 23:49:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:50:06 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:36 Bike [~Glossina@71-34-78-123.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:05 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:52:07 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:24 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:54:30 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5AF503AB.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:58 the microcode is ... weird 23:55:24 P6 architecture for exame had... 130-something bit long machine codes? 23:55:45 Hunh. And I thought Raven's 48-bit and Hummingbird's 64-bit was bad. 23:56:08 Mattykins [~matt@69.43.176.6] has joined #lisp 23:56:37 nyef: a lot of microcode is for "specialized" instructions that don't nicely map to ALU stuff 23:56:42 *drewc* mentions trinary in passing 23:56:44 (or similar) 23:56:55 for example VM acceleration stuff 23:57:06 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5AF50CB9.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:57:23 -!- redim [~redim@83.33.83.125] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:58:31 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 23:59:18 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:49 nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:59 normanrichards [~normanric@173.7.54.165] has joined #lisp