00:00:00 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:00:29 k0001 [~k0001@host102.186-108-162.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 00:00:40 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-157-236.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 00:00:41 hah.. I thought you played the gadfly in this conversation, saying 4k-dimensions array may be a reasonable idea :) 00:01:48 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 00:01:55 i don't really know what the conversation was about, i just stated that array-rank-limit is less than call-arguments-limit 00:01:56 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 00:03:15 -!- nyef_ [~nyef@c-76-119-183-159.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 00:03:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.158.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:03:32 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host170.186-125-119.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:04:42 -!- pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 00:05:06 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.187.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 00:05:29 btw whartung, did you know you made it to my usenet-gems.org file? :) 00:05:45 I did? 00:05:52 is that good or bad? 00:07:23 whartung, it's great :) .. 'twas this post: https://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/86cf454beb8a42f9?dmode=source&output=gplain&noredirect&pli=1 00:07:40 ah yes, the infamous opus 00:08:34 thanks! 00:08:51 heh, thank you 00:11:17 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:40 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192029.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:03 casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:14 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 00:14:19 yea my favorite part of that was just "typing stuff in to S-Expr" and then shaking the results and turning it in to a mini DSL. 00:21:22 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192029.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 00:22:55 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 00:23:25 I remember approaching something like this when I started lisping.. though it was more a markup thing.. had to write some design notes providing rationale for things.. so wrote it like (argument (premise ...) (premise ...) (conclusion ...)) with more semantic markup like that.. then wrote a program to "instantiate" that into a set of html pages 00:23:45 yea 00:24:03 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-157-236.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:24:29 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:39 what's nice is when you start out like that, give the basic of an S-Expr and prefix notation, you can just make stuff up and the fly and it's really organic. the system kind of designs itself as you go and introduce new stuff you weren't even considering at the beginning. 00:24:51 basically write a bunch of source code to a language that doesn't exist. 00:25:01 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:25:02 then implementing the resulting language. 00:25:51 yeah.. though sometimes things aren't optimal because you haven't put much thought into the syntax and you need to change it 00:27:19 sure, that's part of the process tho 00:27:48 and even then, to a point, you might be able to change the syntax through a transformation 00:28:02 yep :) 00:31:32 it also reminds me of my old vrml generation library.. where I took vrml spec and just added some parens here and there, then wrote a filter program to extract the interest bits from it and turn it into a lisp file.. then added the necessary macros and there, we're done 00:31:38 -!- stopbit [~stopbit@108.48.124.82] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:31:45 yea 00:33:09 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:12 -!- agumonkey [~agu@65.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:35:06 whartung: i shared your opus at the new place i'm working and it made an impression 00:35:20 oh yea? How so? 00:35:34 ah.. misremembered. I filtered the interesting bits myself and wrote a program to lispify it.. heh.. the other way was some other thing I wrote.. like 10 years ago 00:37:01 whartung: similar domain and it's always good to have inspirational lisp stories for higher-level management 00:37:15 ah cool, glad to be of service 00:37:30 *Xach* should print & frame 00:40:58 this was the process: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135782 00:41:00 imagine if you could use 4000 dimensions to solve it? 00:41:23 (check annotations) 00:42:11 adeht: define-layers is, basically... a description is an alist of (name . layers) where layers is a plist of 'attributes' like :activate, or :type or :select-objects etc. or magic, pure and simple magic. 00:42:55 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:43:45 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:44:19 drewc, helpful description :) 00:45:12 -!- Artheist [~quassel@modemcable051.243-130-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:12 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 00:45:26 heh ... have you read the MEWA paper from '03? it was in smalltalk... squeek IIRC 00:45:48 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 00:46:49 Mewa: Meta-level Architecture for Generic Web-Application Contruction 00:49:19 So, I happened to read that paper around the time I got into web application lisping, and kept on doing a similar thing, only in CL... which ended up resulting in Lisp on Lines, which has descriptions and layers and attributes. So, in redoing what I did for LOL, I use the same terms. 00:50:30 LOL is a horrible name -- I've not seen, nor used it, I've heard of it, but it's still a horrible name :) 00:51:08 Let Over Lambda, Land of Lisp, Lisp on Lines, ... 00:51:21 I came first! 00:51:29 errr ... 00:51:38 I used that name first! 00:51:38 didn't you also write some ROFL library? 00:51:52 yup, still using that 00:52:36 and going to update LOL to use my re-write, and also my re-write of FTW and SMUG 00:52:49 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-97-180.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:54 I seem to have enjoyed my naming things 00:53:56 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 00:54:13 defaultxr [~defaultxr@207-118-128-128.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:54:33 I like naming my things like old academic projects.. one word, all uppercase.. CONSIX, FEMALE, SLATE, etc. 00:54:34 one plan regarding deferred warnings... have a separate *deferred-warnings-warnings-behaviour* telling whether we should die on such warnings 00:55:17 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:55:27 OR, have a whitelist of systems and a timestamp and/or version -- if the system is older than that, then its warnings don't cause a failure. 00:56:52 -!- n0vember [~n0vember@liberacescursedpiano.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:57:32 hey Fare . 00:57:45 hi 00:59:04 -!- sabalaba1 [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:59:26 hi, i have a lisp program that starts before i start emacs, and after i start emacs i connect to it via slime/swank, and error messages still appear in emacs but i don't know how to get standard output (i.e. from print, format, etc) into an emacs buffer like i get if i run the program directly from emacs. i tried putting (setf swank:*globally-redirect-io* t) in ~/.swank.lisp and reconnecting like it says in the 00:59:28 slime manual but i didn't get a buffer in emacs with the standard output of the program... can anyone tell me what else i need to do? 00:59:43 n0vember [~n0vember@liberacescursedpiano.org] has joined #lisp 01:00:25 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:00:30 have you looked at *inferior-lisp* ? 01:00:34 defaultxr: do you have at least a repl? 01:00:45 Fare: that shouldn't be possible with a remote connection 01:00:48 i don't have *inferior-lisp* or a repl 01:01:18 ok, good, add (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) to your .emacs 01:01:32 i have that 01:01:42 what if you bind *standard-output*, *error-output*, etc., to your slime's output stream? 01:02:11 Fare, i thought that's what (setf swank:*globally-redirect-io* t) was supposed to do 01:02:28 if you don't have a REPL, what would it redirect to? 01:02:39 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:57 are you sure that (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) is in the right places? have you restarted emacs? 01:03:15 or maybe you are using slime-autoloads 01:03:34 yeah i'm using slime-autoloads 01:03:43 well, there's your problem 01:04:16 -!- z3om [~zeom@unaffiliated/zeom] has quit [Quit: gone] 01:04:51 hmm alright 01:04:58 i'll comment that out/reconnect 01:05:11 sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:20 commenting it out would be a bad idea, you need to replace it with (require 'slime) 01:05:30 and restart emacs for the best effect 01:05:42 i have (require 'slime) above it actually 01:06:10 that's probably why it breaks 01:06:28 you can't specify both at the same time 01:06:43 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 01:08:36 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:09:02 hmm, is there anything else i'd have to do after connecting to lisp from slime? 01:09:13 i get the REPL now and it's connected properly since i can use functions 01:09:22 but i'm not getting standard output from the lisp program 01:09:25 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 01:09:44 that can't be true 01:10:51 or you mean not then in the repl? but which was already running before you connected? 01:10:52 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:27 the repl appeared after i connected 01:11:56 i'm still only getting output on the terminal 01:13:15 do you still have (setf swank:*globally-redirect-io* t) in ~/.swank.lisp ? 01:13:49 -!- cic_ [~connolly@Catnip.AI.SRI.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:14:15 yep 01:14:41 and if you evaluate swank:*globally-redirect-io*? 01:15:02 T 01:15:19 do you bind any stream variables? 01:15:51 not any that should affect standard output; just network/socket streams 01:17:38 so, when you write (print 10) in the REPL, it's not printed? 01:18:00 it's printed on the REPL, yes 01:18:03 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:07 *stassats* made so that slime-autoloads are not loaded anymore if slime is already loaded 01:18:30 but format, princ, etc that are called from the running lisp aren't redirected to the REPL 01:18:32 sorry for the confusion 01:18:35 is that possible to do? 01:18:41 it'd be better to display a big fat error, but silently ignoring might be better 01:19:00 I am currently attempting to use lisp-cgi-utils, and everything is giving me a 500 when trying to access the page. It runs fine on the server... where should I be looking for issues? 01:19:10 defaultxr: yes, when global redirection is used 01:19:21 and when you don't capture old values of stream variables 01:20:11 i'm just doing stuff like (format t "foo bar") 01:20:35 no variables for the standard output streams 01:21:02 the repl may still be binding the variables 01:21:11 the implementation repl 01:21:18 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 01:21:38 are you using Clozure CL, perchance? 01:21:48 i'm using SBCL; is it possible that when the program starts, the calls to format, princ, etc are compiled with the current values of the standard output streams and aren't updated when i connect to it with slime? 01:22:12 well, it works fine for me in SBCL 01:22:58 k0001_ [~k0001@host204.181-1-163.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 01:23:48 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:01 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:02 defaultxr: do (progn (setf swank::*saved-global-streams* nil) (swank::init-global-stream-redirection)) in the terminal 01:25:14 the program i'm running goes into a loop, i don't get a repl on the terminal 01:25:33 i can try that in the slime repl though 01:25:55 no, that won't help 01:26:36 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host102.186-108-162.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:27:43 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 01:28:30 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:28:49 well, you can use SWANK::*CURRENT-STANDARD-OUTPUT* 01:28:57 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:29:47 hmm 01:30:00 i just restarted the lisp program, using --load to load my program instead of --script 01:30:04 and now it seems to be working 01:30:21 can you do it again with --script? 01:31:09 no need to do that 01:31:16 it'll indeed cause that 01:31:34 yeah i tried with --script again and output stayed on the terminal again 01:31:49 Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-249-241.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:01 thank you for your help :) 01:34:33 kennyd [kennyd@93-138-230-155.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:35:34 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 01:35:51 -!- ludston [~ludston@CPE-58-166-124-174.lnse5.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:37:28 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 01:37:47 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:34 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:43:40 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:49:12 -!- tenawa [~user@adsl-99-104-97-47.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 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[~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:13 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:09:57 how do I reset my trac.common-lisp.net password again? 02:10:21 you can't reset it, just go ti ssh://cl.net/ cat trac-password.txt 02:12:19 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:37 thanks stassats! 02:13:56 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host204.181-1-163.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:16:23 agumonkey [~agu@65.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:57 sipo [~sipo@c-66-31-47-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:32 sw2wolf [~czsq888@118.112.158.139] has joined #lisp 02:18:35 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 02:27:10 -!- sipo [~sipo@c-66-31-47-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sipo] 02:29:55 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 02:31:50 -!- doomlord 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timeout: 256 seconds] 08:28:44 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:30:18 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:31:14 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@116.203.233.110] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:32:03 tic [~tic@c83-248-1-208.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:32:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-185.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:35:08 techlife [~jimmy@60.212.33.102] has joined #lisp 08:39:52 how can I delete system releases from old QL dists versions? 08:41:08 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.65.219] has joined #lisp 08:41:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.65.219] has quit [Changing host] 08:41:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:41:12 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192108.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:26 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-24-5-86-251.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:45:35 what is the result of (+ 1 1.3456) in your favourite implementation? 08:46:05 2.3456001, not exactly a shock? 08:47:36 Bike: Do you have a suggestion for something to read to understand why? 08:47:56 Oh, were you expecting 2.3456? 08:48:00 Yeah. 08:48:08 http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19957-01/806-3568/ncg_goldberg.html 08:48:10 That CL would widen the type. 08:48:13 Thanks 08:48:54 If you want exact results, try (+ 1 13456/100000) possibly with some reader macros to let you enter it as a decimal. 08:49:00 Bike: very cool link. 08:49:22 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 08:49:40 it's pretty classic. 08:49:58 Yeah. I think I have seen it at some point. 08:50:03 clintm [uid1741@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vatvbilundfpfrto] has joined #lisp 08:50:13 -!- clintm [uid1741@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vatvbilundfpfrto] has quit [Client Quit] 08:50:15 Apparently, I need to reapply myself to its contents. 08:50:43 clintm_ [uid1741@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iuiakutaqkdqhupd] has joined #lisp 08:50:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-185.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:50:56 -!- clintm_ is now known as hydo 08:51:01 -!- hydo is now known as clintm 08:51:08 well the basics is that floating point is not exact and you should not use it as such unless you know you have enough margin for the error to be negligible. and secondarily that floats are "better" at multiplication and division than they are at addition and subtraction, maybe. 08:51:15 surely there is not a five sigma significance 08:51:32 or not? 08:51:33 A what? 08:51:42 B what? 08:52:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-185.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:54:41 CL might help with understanding why it's approximate in the way it is since you have decode-float and integer-decode-float and scale-float and all. 08:55:06 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 08:58:10 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:59:31 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:00:16 Bike, what are you hacking on tonight? 09:00:27 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:55 nothing at the moment. just reading. 09:03:37 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7556ae.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:42 from iolib: (defmacro with-guard-against-non-list-args-and-destructuring-bind-errors ...) 09:04:56 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 09:04:56 greetings Quadrescence 09:05:02 hello dto 09:05:16 awesome macro name 09:05:24 i start to blanch at 5 words 09:05:34 :)) 09:05:47 wganlaadbe for short no doubt 09:06:09 -!- ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-81-244-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ipmonger] 09:06:09 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:06:16 dto, what are you hacking on 09:06:27 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 09:06:42 Quadrescence: well. i have just put out a 2nd binary release of this lispgame. and actually made a webpage for it as well. http://blocky.io/2x0ng.html 09:06:51 how about you? any lispings in the works 09:07:29 i was trying to write a good point/function plotter but sort of gave up for the time being 09:10:53 Quadrescence: i thought of writing up something about the puzzle generation 09:10:53 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:11:00 and how I thought lisp was helpful in that 09:11:02 -!- jarmond [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:11:23 i was also trying to get iolib to connect to netcat on OS X and failed 09:11:26 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 09:11:42 abeaumont [~abeaumont@30.190.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:11:44 oh 09:11:56 i've never tried iolib. what's it like 09:12:23 it is useful, and does a lot of work for me that i will never want to do myself 09:12:51 favors linux, doesn't support windows, and clearly has shady OS X support 09:14:06 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192108.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 09:14:06 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:14:30 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 09:15:05 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192108.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:38 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:21:04 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@118.112.158.139] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:25:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-185.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:27:18 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192108.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 09:27:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-185.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:31:00 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:33:57 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:34:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-185.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:35:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-185.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:41:30 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-025-207.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:00 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:44:01 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:44:23 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 09:46:17 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:46:53 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 09:51:32 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:51:52 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 09:52:33 -!- Bike [~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ockeghem] 09:55:34 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 09:58:08 -!- dioxirane [~LacioDrom@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 09:58:31 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 09:58:31 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:55 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest10074 09:58:56 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 09:59:56 ehu [~ehu@31.137.182.252] has joined #lisp 10:02:02 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:02:23 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 10:03:05 -!- Guest10074 [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:07:39 some_user [~user@h-223-245.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 10:07:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-185.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:07:55 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:08:18 Hey guys, I'm slightly confused by the CLHS on this issue so I come here to ask you: How the heck do I declare the types of variables introduced in a loop macro? 10:08:23 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 10:10:05 eldariof [~CLD@188.168.245.155] has joined #lisp 10:10:12 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:10:51 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 10:11:21 some_user, (loop for x ?) 10:12:19 (loop x :of-type ?) 10:12:40 Quadrescence: I tried the first one and I get an "exptected loop-form" error 10:12:56 some_user, show me a minimal test case 10:13:16 Quadrescence: Hoh, of-type worked. Well, now I feel silly for not trying that out 10:14:36 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:00 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:18:14 jarmond [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:18:20 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 10:29:45 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:46 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:21 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 10:30:44 -!- ehu [~ehu@31.137.182.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:30:49 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 10:32:09 some_user: it's slightly difficult to guess without checking the LOOP macro reference in the Hyperspec :) 10:32:36 cfy` [~ilisp@122.231.27.172] has joined #lisp 10:33:30 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:33:47 i'm not sure the CLHS grammar is the most readable 10:33:49 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 10:37:43 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Quit: Life is too short] 10:38:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-185.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:38:31 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38:48 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@30.190.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38:48 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 10:38:58 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:39 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 10:41:40 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:41:57 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:42:19 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 10:42:44 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 10:42:56 abeaumont [~abeaumont@15.230.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:43:01 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.40] has joined #lisp 10:43:43 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 10:46:36 -!- cfy` [~ilisp@122.231.27.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:47:21 cfy` [~ilisp@122.231.27.172] has joined #lisp 10:48:20 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 10:48:26 hi 10:48:27 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:48:48 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 10:49:06 please I'm trying to use trivial-timers, there's any tutorial around? I did not found much on the net, thanks 10:49:42 -!- guaqua [gua@hilla.kapsi.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:50:11 Posterdati: trivial-timers is supposedly a portable versions of SBCLs timers-extension which has this manual: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Timers.html 10:50:52 -!- skbierm_ is now known as skbierm 10:50:55 -!- defaultxr [~defaultxr@207-118-128-128.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: gnight] 10:53:28 some_user: ok, done! Thanks 10:56:52 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:57:19 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 10:59:17 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-74-224.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:17 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:59:47 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 11:01:05 guaqua [gua@hilla.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 11:01:39 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:20 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 11:02:40 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.14.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:03:33 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:04:13 -!- utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:04:47 utterglee [~adityamen@122.169.146.92] has joined #lisp 11:05:07 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seconds] 13:17:47 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-68-135.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:18:15 Xach: indeed, 2.4.8.7 is clear: The consequences are undefined if the token immediately following the #B does not have the syntax of a binary (i.e., radix 2) rational. 13:18:51 Yes. I was looking first at #r, which does not have similar language. 13:19:00 Oh, I guess it does. Never mind! 13:19:01 Xach: of course, the way it says first that the number is "read" "in binary", can interpreted as (let ((*read-base* 2.)) (read stream)) and therefore implementations returning 101010. are good. 13:19:31 undefined consequences sound good to me 13:19:37 Yep. 13:20:04 ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.232] has joined #lisp 13:22:26 jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-49.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:24:19 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-109-48.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:27:53 cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-219-35.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 13:28:00 redim [~redim@241.Red-79-156-39.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:12 skbierm_ [~sascha@p4FEA08CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:31:32 -!- skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA0CFC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:38:57 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-219-35.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:39:10 -!- techlife [~jimmy@60.212.33.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:39:16 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-185.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 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Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:32:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:32:57 -!- holycow [~holycow@pdpc/supporter/bronze/holycow] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:33:34 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 15:34:17 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:36:19 quazimodo [~quazimodo@27.253.100.110] has joined #lisp 15:36:20 hi all 15:36:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-185.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:36:56 hey how do I use something like (first, (second, or (third dynamically? like, if I am generating the number 3 and want the 3rd element of a list 15:37:26 neverind I'm dumb, nth is what i need 15:39:03 ahungry: elt is another option 15:41:25 Thanks Xach 15:50:08 -!- wizzo [~wizzo@124.148.201.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:50:38 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:51:22 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:afe0:d59e:380e:83d1:191] has joined #lisp 15:51:48 wizzo [~wizzo@58-7-78-125.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 15:53:15 is there a way to launch a shell process directly, without using something like trivial-shell? i basically want to fire off a command and dont care about resulting output 15:53:21 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 15:53:40 ahungry, sb-ext 15:53:44 run-program 15:53:48 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:26 thanks 15:54:32 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-185.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:55:26 one more for everyone, is there a good way to check if a smaller string is in a larger string? 15:55:35 -!- zacts` [~user@67-0-130-230.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:55:37 like, (position "cat" "some people think cats rule") 15:55:40 would return true 15:56:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-185.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:56:13 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7556ae.pool.mediaways.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:04 sabalaba [~Adium@c-24-5-86-251.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:07 SEARCH 15:58:11 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192102.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:25 -!- jarmond [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:59:03 thanks 15:59:33 cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:06 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:38 here is my awesome program/script thanks to your help I was able to trim out some fat http://sprunge.us/HVOf 16:01:39 i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-091ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:02:07 (defun hello () (print 'hello)) 16:02:13 XDD 16:02:25 => HELLO 16:03:05 => (hello) 16:03:20 Eldariof93-ru [~CLD@213.80.222.63] has joined #lisp 16:03:29 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-131-140.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:23 PuercoPo` [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 16:05:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-185.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:05:50 anyone wanna critique my little script? if you just joined, its at http://sprunge.us/HVOf, lets you set a random wallpaper or set one based on a partial name match 16:05:55 -!- Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-198-254-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:06:18 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:06:39 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 16:07:02 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:32 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:07:50 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192102.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:09:32 ahungry: why defconstant? 16:09:36 -!- Tanami [~carnage@unaffiliated/tanami] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:09:51 ahungry: (if (not (eq type nil)) type "full") => (or type "full") 16:10:18 ahungry: (if (not (eq file nil)) (match-file file) (random-file)) (if file (match-file file) (random-file)) 16:10:30 ahungry: 1. I prefer using defparameter to defconstant, 2. generalized booleans mean you can do (if file (match-file file) (random-file)), and you can also do (or type "full") 16:10:59 ahungry: and why do you use POP? 16:11:00 match-file can also be (find file +files+ :key 'namestring) 16:11:07 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 16:11:18 sykopomp: but it uses SEARCH 16:11:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-8.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:11:25 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:11:47 so, :test #'search 16:12:10 wow 16:12:21 gah sorry :) 16:12:22 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 16:14:13 -!- i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-091ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Fug!] 16:15:25 stassats: I assume the POP is just adoption of the shell scripting idiom. 16:17:08 bl4in0 [~chatzilla@69.62.149.223] has joined #lisp 16:18:17 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 16:18:22 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:29 -!- bl4in0 [~chatzilla@69.62.149.223] has left #lisp 16:19:43 Eldariof28-ru [~CLD@188.168.240.73] has joined #lisp 16:21:14 awesome thanks guys 16:21:51 what would be preferred other than pop? (second and (third? or is there a better way to send them? just with args sent in directly? 16:22:48 FIRST, REST 16:22:56 NTH 16:22:57 ELT 16:23:24 -!- Eldariof93-ru [~CLD@213.80.222.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:23:25 (defun main () (set-wallpaper (second *posix-args*) (third *posix-args*))) (main) 16:24:27 ok makes sense, quite a bit clearer 16:25:00 morning all 16:25:50 I'm getting stack overflows with a recursive function while solving Euler 3. I can't quite understand what I'm doing wrong. Any ideas? https://gist.github.com/masondesu/5071791 16:26:44 what implementation? 16:26:50 i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-091ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:27:04 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-222-34-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:27:14 btw ZEROP is nice. 16:27:20 SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:47 masondesu: don't use recursion 16:27:51 -!- Eldariof28-ru [~CLD@188.168.240.73] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:27:58 do a loop instead? 16:28:02 masondesu: common lisp does not guarantee tail call optimization, so depending on the implementation you use, this function will blow up. 16:28:08 masondesu: yes 16:28:29 you'll need to use something like LOOP to make it portable, but SBCL and CCL and several others have TCO enabled. 16:28:37 I *think* CLISP does not. 16:28:38 I'm using Clisp 16:28:44 yeah, there you go :) 16:28:49 try running it in sbcl or ccl. 16:28:53 clisp has tco, but you need to compile it 16:28:54 ah super interesting. 16:28:57 sabayonuser2 [~sabayonus@14.20.9.26] has joined #lisp 16:29:04 gotcha. I'm just sending it to the repl 16:29:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:29:15 (compile 'largest-prime-factor) 16:30:58 oh nice, running (slowly) now. no more stack overflows 16:31:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:31:12 i keep getting "the variable *OPTIMIZE-SETTINGS* is unbound" for http://paste.lisp.org/display/135788 16:31:33 stassats sykopomp thanks a ton y'all 16:33:18 -!- sabayonuser2 [~sabayonus@14.20.9.26] has left #lisp 16:33:25 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-215-185-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:34:22 and it is almost same way EW does in cl-ppcre... what am i doing wrong? << 16:34:36 bubo_ [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 16:35:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:36:20 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-222-34-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:37:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:38:38 nan_: the variable is not defined at read-time 16:38:51 you need to use eval-when 16:39:45 stassats: i thought about that as the error says read errror during compile-time yet i am looking cl-ppcre now in specials.lisp he doesn't do that. 16:40:33 because it's in another file 16:43:18 oh now i see, thanks alot 16:44:04 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:44:31 ISF_ [~ivan@189.61.220.66] has joined #lisp 16:45:08 -!- wizzo [~wizzo@58-7-78-125.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:45:12 and, what would be the search phrase if i wanted to read more about it? :) 16:45:25 clhs eval-when 16:45:26 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_eval_w.htm 16:49:13 -!- Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-215-185-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:49:47 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-219-162-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:50:00 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 16:50:07 also some asdf i think to know about compile cycle... so it is read and compile file-1 then read and compile file-2 ... not like read everything then compile everything. 16:54:50 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abon92.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:54:50 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 16:55:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:56:07 k0001 [~k0001@host36.181-1-162.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 16:57:14 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abou191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:59:36 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 16:59:48 Greetings lispers 17:02:39 -!- Eldariof-ru is now known as eldariof 17:03:02 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:03:55 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:04:53 Bike [~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:05 youlysse` [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:05:30 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:30 -!- youlysse` [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:03 Which web server are all the cool kids using these days, hunchentoot or toot? 17:07:30 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:51 hunchentoot 17:08:49 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.183.79] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:11:10 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@206.64-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 17:11:10 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@206.64-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 17:11:10 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:12:09 Is the documentation on Edi's website still in synch with the github repository? 17:12:18 yes 17:12:22 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-222-78-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:12:31 Thanks 17:15:09 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-219-162-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:16:42 dioxirane [~LacioDrom@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 17:19:46 cantcode [~cantcode@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:23:29 -!- PuercoPo` is now known as PuercoPop 17:24:36 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:26:03 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abon92.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 17:26:10 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:28:52 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:34:33 Knirr [~Knirr@c-e042e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:37:57 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:41:50 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:51 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 17:45:39 I have a function that returns two values, what's the easiest way to get/do things with the second one? 17:45:53 nth-value or multiple-value-bind usually 17:47:39 zacts [~user@67-0-130-230.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:07 -!- zacts [~user@67-0-130-230.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:48:14 I sometimes use a macro called second-value, if the case occurs very often. I find it a tad odd that it's not in the standard. the length difference between nth-value and second-value is irrelevant, the latter just requires less thinking 17:48:55 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 17:49:03 ah, thanks 17:49:11 could just spell it 2nd-value too 17:49:24 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:12 does that have to be a macro? why can't I just write (defun 2nd-value (fn) (nth-value 1 fn)) ? possibly with a #' 17:50:41 -!- dioxirane [~LacioDrom@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:51:03 you can 17:51:07 ah 17:51:48 ((lambda (v) (nth-value 1 v)) (values 1 2)) => NIL 17:51:53 (defun 2nd-value-funcall (function &rest args) (nth-value 1 (apply #'funcall function args))) 17:53:04 (2nd-value-funcall #'values 1 2) => 2 17:54:48 yeah, there's no reason for it ot be a macro... 17:54:56 nialo: "2nd-value" has to be a macro because individual function args aren't multi-valued 17:54:57 *madnificent* digs through his code to see if he made it a macro 17:55:26 (defun 2nd-value (fn) (nth-value 1 fn)), which misnames 'fn' because it's not necessarily a function, will always return NIL because fn is a single value 17:55:53 wait no, that's dumb of me 17:56:14 kpreid: "possibly with a #'" qualification applies 17:56:14 also, i use the full second-value instead of 2nd because it fits #'second 17:56:38 stassats: #' doesn't help, you need a funcall in there, like you did 17:56:44 SLIME + macroexpand + my new keybindings = AWESOME, thanks all slime devs here! 17:56:58 *stassats* looks around 17:57:10 you cannot write the operation "2nd value of this form" as a function, only a macro 17:57:23 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:57:39 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.86.58] has joined #lisp 17:57:50 -!- agumonkey is now known as agumonbike 17:57:57 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.17.188] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:13 (multiple-value-call (lambda (x y &rest args) y) (values 1 2)) 17:58:36 sz0` [~user@94.55.194.230] has joined #lisp 17:58:37 ahh, I see 17:58:52 kpreid: if you frob they way you write the call, you can, but it'd completely defy my purpose (being, make it simpler) 17:59:24 hi 18:00:11 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.86.58] has left #lisp 18:00:25 please is there anyone could help me to understand the problem with my code? 18:01:53 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Quit: Segmentation Fault] 18:01:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/135790 18:02:05 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 18:02:06 the port seems dead :) 18:02:31 nil_ [~smuxi@a89-155-11-217.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 18:02:46 strangely I could open it with minicom while the program is running :) 18:03:46 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 18:05:25 dnolen [~user@12.130.123.232] has joined #lisp 18:07:37 -!- dnolen [~user@12.130.123.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:49 dnolen [~user@12.130.123.232] has joined #lisp 18:10:24 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:10:39 -!- nil_ [~smuxi@a89-155-11-217.cpe.netcabo.pt] has left #lisp 18:14:37 hiro3w [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:19:24 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:19:30 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:19:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:20:24 -!- cfy` [~ilisp@122.231.27.172] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:20:43 -!- hiro3w [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:58 stopbit [~stopbit@c-69-140-100-176.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:25 -!- kennyd [kennyd@93-138-230-155.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:22:51 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:23:45 -!- dnolen [~user@12.130.123.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:24:45 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:04 kennyd [kennyd@93-138-182-55.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 18:28:13 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:31:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:32:58 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 18:33:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:33:16 Posterdati: IIRC you can use minicom itself to connect. it then offers a stream where you can read from and write to. not exactly your question, but perhaps a solution nonetheless. 18:34:19 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #lisp 18:34:20 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Changing host] 18:34:20 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 18:35:58 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:07 -!- i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-091ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 18:36:20 i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-091ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:36:26 Does ASDF setup logical pathname translations? 18:38:03 madnificent: yes I can connect with minicom... But I need to send a command over serial and get the answer every second 18:39:59 dnolen [~user@12.130.123.232] has joined #lisp 18:41:10 Posterdati: you can use the minicom stream from lisp 18:41:26 madnificent: how? 18:42:44 ThomasH: I don't think so. 18:42:58 What logical host would it set up? 18:43:22 i think we used it in such a mode about 5 years ago or so. don't remember the details and the source code is not mine anymore. man minicom may help. 18:44:32 it's been a while, but i believe that is the solution we turned out using, as we were in a hurry 18:44:49 pjb: I don't know, I'm getting an error loading cl-fad. Trying to figure out where it's coming from. 18:45:50 -!- cantcode [~cantcode@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:46:36 -!- knob [~knob@173.215.220.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:47:44 knob [~knob@66-50-29-124.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:22 ThomasH, no, it cannot 18:49:43 logical pathnames are a very very very bad idea 18:50:21 Logical pathnames are a good idea. Implementations are just bad at physical pathnames. 18:50:23 I spent enough weeks making asdf support them to say they are active braindamage 18:50:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:50:45 For example, nowadays frameworks use URI instead of POSIX paths! 18:50:48 Trying to asdf:load-system cl-fad in LW and running into a problem loading the "temporary-files" FASL. 18:51:05 pjb: are you fixing warnings in your systems? see mail I sent you 18:51:38 I will. But I don't have a lot of time for lisp now :-( 18:51:38 ThomasH, paste a log + backtrace' 18:52:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:53:08 Fare: Thanks, let me dig a little more. It's on windows. CCL on windows loads it just fine. SBCL on Linux loads it just fine. I'm going to compile/load by hand and see what I get. Also, using ASDF 2.26 from Quicklisp. 18:56:39 can i make drakma send me a string back, instead of an array of bytes, or must i convert them manually? 18:56:40 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-49.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:57:25 Fare: It's a problem with CL-FAD on LW. I'm zeroing in on the issue. 18:57:43 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 18:59:34 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #lisp 18:59:34 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Changing host] 18:59:34 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 19:00:48 -!- sz0` [~user@94.55.194.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:02:13 note that I recommend asdf/driver over cl-fad, where applicable. 19:02:34 cl-fad just isn't as robust and multiplatform. 19:03:01 Found the issue, LW signals a simple-error when no translation is found for a logical pathname and CL-FAD assumes that only CLISP does that and all others signal a type-error. 19:03:12 Fare: No choice, trying to use hunchentoot. 19:03:29 logical pathnames are kind of suicide. 19:04:16 Fare: to begin with, I almost NEVER saw a real logical pathname in lisp programs. 19:04:51 Fare: how many people pass :case :common to make-pathname or write logical pathname literals all upcase? 19:05:33 It's not logical pathnames that are kind of suicide, it's writting non-conforming code that is kind of suicide. 19:05:54 And very few people know how to write conforming code with logical pathnames. 19:06:04 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:06:22 I guess it represents one indirection level too many for most people. 19:06:26 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:06:51 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:54 and a useless one 19:07:02 there are better ways to achieve indirection. 19:07:09 asdf/driver:subpathname for instance. 19:07:21 Fare: it's not useless. Otherwise people wouldn't use URI instead of POSIX vectors of bytes. 19:08:06 URIs, unlike CL logical pathnames make kind of sense. For one, their semantics is portable enough. 19:08:19 CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:08:35 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:08:37 Fare: until implementations diverge on how they map URI to local file systems :-) 19:09:03 isn't file:// semantics pretty well defined? 19:09:11 Not at all. 19:09:15 oops 19:09:26 There are implementations 19:09:42 time for an update to the RFCs, then. 19:09:59 hey guys, what's the best way to get the last character of a string in common lisp? 19:10:15 (aref string (1- (length string))) 19:10:23 O(1) 19:11:24 k thanks 19:11:58 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-131-140.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:13:53 sz0` [~user@94.55.194.230] has joined #lisp 19:14:14 -!- sz0` [~user@94.55.194.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:28 (alexandria:last-elt string) 19:14:30 sz0` [~user@94.55.194.230] has joined #lisp 19:14:54 -!- sz0` [~user@94.55.194.230] has quit [Client Quit] 19:16:42 davorb_laptop [~textual@130.235.122.248] has joined #lisp 19:17:12 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 19:17:35 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest18009 19:17:57 stassats: too late :-) 19:17:59 -!- i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-091ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 19:19:30 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 19:19:36 for what? 19:19:47 Ugh, the fix for LW is already in CL-FAD 0.7.1, the version in Quicklisp is 0.7.0. 19:20:47 Of course, I only find this *after* I clone the repository to fix and submit a pull request. 19:21:28 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #lisp 19:21:28 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Changing host] 19:21:28 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 19:22:38 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:23:06 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:24:34 i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-091ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:28:07 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 19:31:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:33:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:37:07 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:44 Forty-Two [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-75.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:18 -!- Forty-Two is now known as Forty-3 19:39:28 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:41:31 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:42:24 Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.228.105] has joined #lisp 19:44:33 masondesu: (asdf/driver:last-char string) 19:45:06 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:22 please no asdf dependencies, especially since there's alexandria:last-char 19:46:53 -!- Corvidium is now known as Cosman246 19:47:53 I expect asdf/driver to be more common than alexandria, in a few months. 19:49:56 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@188.28.150.106.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:50:13 I think it's better to use ASDF only for compilation purposes 19:50:52 Fare: why don't you give your new, awesome utility library a name better than asdf/driver? 19:51:06 Fare: i.e. no slash, no "driver" 19:51:41 asdf-utils ? asdf-driver ? 19:52:01 (these aliases are already provided) 19:52:11 Fare: you make it appear as if it is not asdf related really, so call it qwert for example 19:52:12 what name do you suggest? 19:52:51 qwer tyui ghjk kl;' 19:53:32 if you find a nice backronym to go with one, why not 19:54:02 why is a backronym useful? 19:54:16 mnemotechnics 19:54:34 quality wisdom earns right tong 19:54:38 there you are. 19:55:06 quality and wisdom, that should pull your trigger! 19:55:23 :D 19:55:26 skbierm_ [~sascha@p4FEA006C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:32 uiop: user interface to operate portably 19:58:21 that doesn't sound nice in English 19:58:44 -!- skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA08CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:59:29 erty: extended run-time yuck 19:59:56 -!- dnolen [~user@12.130.123.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:51 dnolen [~user@12.130.123.232] has joined #lisp 20:00:57 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:01:14 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:01:18 wert: wacky extended run-time 20:01:47 n0vember [~n0vember@liberacescursedpiano.org] has joined #lisp 20:01:59 wispy extended run-time ? 20:06:30 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:07:01 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-131-140.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:23 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:44 wert is "worth" in german 20:07:56 or "value" 20:08:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:09:51 good name then 20:10:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:10:07 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@24.56.228.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:10:32 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:10:33 LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 20:10:52 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 20:10:56 i tend to believe that it is better to use non-words for library names 20:11:02 makes googling so much easier. 20:11:16 and pronouncing and remembering so much harder 20:11:32 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:55 i never ever misspelled hnchentuth 20:12:45 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:14:38 *pavelpenev* believes http://watchout4snakes.com/creativitytools/randomword/randomwordplus.aspx is used to name 90% of github projects. 20:16:09 minion: what does WERT mean? 20:16:09 Wrister Entermete Rudge Thyrohyal 20:16:13 pavelpenev: after poking at that page a bit, I think you might be right. 20:17:07 -!- Guest18009 [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:17:13 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-131-140.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:17:15 I use it for passwords, http://xkcd.com/936/ 20:18:50 wert sounds like vert 20:19:17 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 20:19:54 now people will think that this wert is not a part of ASDF and it's good to depend on it, great 20:21:38 stassats: that is the whole point 20:22:08 stassats: fare made it appear as if he wants exactly that, and my suggestion was then to split it off asdf 20:22:16 -!- davorb_laptop [~textual@130.235.122.248] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:23:33 if asdf doesn't depend on it, then alright 20:23:45 because 34 utility libraries aren't enough, we need to round it off at 64. 20:23:46 stassats: asdf will need to include it. 20:23:49 yes 20:24:19 stassats: well, i personally am fine with alexandria, but the rules of that library don't suit everyones taste. 20:24:37 though i realize that getting any long term stability with ASDF is futile 20:24:56 zacts [~lcc@198.175.175.250] has joined #lisp 20:25:04 asdf will transclude it, just like it does right now. 20:25:49 stassats, once again, ASDF 1.85 is that a way, if you want stability. 20:26:06 then i won't be able to use a half of projects, thanks 20:26:09 but yes, I still intend to stop maintaining ASDF "real soon now" 20:26:35 been saying that for three years, though. 20:26:36 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@27.253.100.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:27:01 -!- zacts [~lcc@198.175.175.250] has quit [Changing host] 20:27:01 zacts [~lcc@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 20:27:18 "the new cool project depends on a blazing new feature of ASDF, let's update ASDF and see everything else breaking" 20:27:29 having finally rewritten each and every piece of functionality in ASDF1, there's not much more I can break. 20:28:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:27 well, I try very hard to not break things. With the deferred-warnings check now disabled and all the backward-compatibility retrofitted thanks to avodonosov's cl-test-grid, asdf 2.32 should be mostly backward-compatible again. 20:29:05 I know, I've been saying that for a month now. 20:29:23 Guest18009 [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 20:29:24 but it's much truer now than then -- and even then, it wasn't that far a stretch. 20:29:46 it's not like there haven't been breakages during the years of ASDF1 or ASDF2. 20:30:27 looking at how I could simplify mcclim.asd, asdf2 is much less quirky than asdf1, and asdf3 is much less quirky than asdf2. 20:31:25 Is it possible to use (find to run through a sequence of class objects and pick a match based on a class variable? 20:31:29 -!- Guest18009 is now known as PuercoPop 20:31:48 -!- skbierm_ is now known as skbierm 20:31:50 LIke, if I have a class named fruit, and I have *fruits* as a sequence of them all, and I want the fruit with slot-value id of 4 20:32:14 right now I am just using a loop over them all 20:32:55 -!- impulse_ [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1096586303.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:32:55 I want to use something like (find 4 *fruits* :key #'slot-value id) 20:32:57 (find 4 *fruits* :key (lambda (fruit) (slot-value fruit 'id))) 20:33:33 impulse_ [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1096586303.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:33:42 Bike: thanks! you rock, I could not wrap my head around how to get the *fruits* into a var, didn't put it together that :key is really just passing to a function derr 20:33:46 mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.109.180.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:36:07 silenius [~silenius@g225016110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:36:08 -!- impulse_ [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1096586303.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:36:40 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #lisp 20:36:41 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Changing host] 20:36:41 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 20:36:56 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1096586303.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:38:59 -!- dnolen [~user@12.130.123.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:39:27 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:42:21 Bike is one of the mind readers here, as if sometimes he answers just before i enter the question >< 20:42:47 haha 20:44:36 -!- Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-222-78-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:48:45 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:51:22 -!- agumonbike is now known as agumonkey 20:51:50 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 20:53:34 (killme) 20:56:41 or just define an accessor for id 20:59:53 ahungry, :key :test arguments to find 21:00:40 ahungry, if id has an accessor fruit-id, you can use it directly :key #'fruit-id 21:05:29 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:07:51 petergil [~user@c80-216-44-38.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:09:52 -!- petergil [~user@c80-216-44-38.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Client Quit] 21:11:28 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:16:06 nice, thanks Frae 21:16:10 Fare* 21:18:56 AeroNotix [~xeno@abon92.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:21:51 -!- weie [~eie@221.78.42.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:27:05 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:35 -!- zacts [~lcc@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:27:52 uiop - utilities for implementation- and os- portability 21:28:37 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 21:28:47 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 21:29:31 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:29:42 Fare: I like WERT ! :) 21:30:17 ur5us [~ur5us@16.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 21:30:29 about 134,000,000 results 21:30:35 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:31:01 though, heh, UIOP has some relevance ... U (you) I/O P (portably) 21:31:08 uiop: About 391,000 results. erty: 3,360,000 21:31:34 uiop is the best so far. 21:31:47 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 21:32:34 redim [~redim@241.red-79-156-39.staticip.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:42 tippenein [~bo@199.195.252.184] has joined #lisp 21:32:56 well, I like UIOP, or CLtL3/PORTABLITY, but UIOP to start ;) 21:33:51 a large bit of uiop would be simplified if the CL pathname spec were clarified / retired / etc. 21:34:26 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 21:34:43 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:34:59 pathname- and filesystem- related crud is >20% of uiop 21:35:30 actually, >25% 21:37:00 yeah, that is kinda sorta my plan for 2013 ... a post-ansi R1RCL is on my plate, and cltl3 being the "common" common lisp (including pathnames, MOP, networking and threads) 21:37:35 hi drewc! how's the move of common-lisp.net to the new server going? 21:37:50 drewc: be sure to invite vendors to the discussion 21:37:58 What are you going to do with the mop? As-is it has some problems, plus not everybody implements it "fully" anyway 21:38:16 will you provide a R1CL-in-CL implementation? 21:38:29 Bike: there's a lot of room for deviation within the spec 21:38:38 right. 21:39:26 well at least, the workarounds in asdf/driver provide a good guide to things that are broken with CL pathnames and more. 21:39:35 ehu: pretty good! If it was not the start of the month on a weekend (I have to launch a product), I would be working on it now : http://alpha.common-lisp.net/ 21:40:13 Fare: I will, and for that matter have when I started it on 2009 ... but had some 'issues' between then and now. 21:40:13 oh! a site with a new layout which looks like it could have been created yesterday. 21:40:38 ehu: feb 2 .. imbolc ... that is when i started it :) 21:41:07 "it also sports"? or maybe that should be "it also supports"? 21:41:09 :-) 21:41:14 I would like to have copyable one-shot continuations and other such things. But I'm not sure vendors would like it. 21:41:38 the front page looks nice. 21:43:21 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 21:44:35 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has quit [Quit: off to bed] 21:44:37 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:44:51 Fare: I would not like it either, fwiw, because CL and CALL/CC were not designed for one another, and since I have been using call/cc and CL for like 10 years, well, am glad that first class non-delimited Conts are not a part of CL. :) 21:45:21 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 21:45:57 drewc: could you make a write up about that? 21:46:27 ehu: Verb Wear or display: "sporting a mustache". 21:46:55 regarding updates to CL, I started to use conduits to make a basic "cl3" package which contains things like closer-mop and so 21:46:57 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-8.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:12 p_l: sure, I plan to .. say 2015 if it is not done, prod me to do so 21:47:44 lol 21:48:09 depending on certain future events, I might even get around to hunting you down on your boat to do the prodding ;> 21:49:29 p_l: that is the plan actually, only ":common-lisp.net (:nicknames :cl-net)" and hierarchy (the new CL has package aliases, just nobody wants to pay me to be a part of ANSI so the new CL is only in my head!) 21:49:32 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:50:18 drewc: I'd like to have conduits, hierarchical and package-local nicknames or "recursive" packages in style of Symbolics CL 21:51:08 p_l: well, 2014 I probably plan on taking of from here to Maui , and given that is likely one month out to sea, well, my plan is to 'focus' on making the modern 21:51:17 haha 21:51:30 -!- i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-091ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 21:51:41 But, heh ... 21:51:47 i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-091ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:52:07 *p_l* might have the funds, papers and location, lacking just time, plane and training to do a bit of "hunt the boat" in water-landing capable plane :> 21:52:08 drewc: Well, I'd be afraid that being out to see, you'd rather have to focus on the boat than on lisping 21:52:18 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.40] has joined #lisp 21:52:21 (in a week, that is) 21:52:27 -!- drewc [~drewc@50.7.166.100] has left #lisp 21:52:38 drewc [~drewc@50.7.166.100] has joined #lisp 21:52:47 Or do you have a crew? 21:52:51 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 21:52:58 s/see/sea/ 21:53:18 pjb: this is a giant yacht, must have a crew even to take it to the fuel dock :) 21:54:44 Beyond that, it is a sailboat, so the 'easy' part is from here to Maui ... no time needed to be spent, and going to take of just before the vic-maui race, so not likely going to get caught alone. 21:54:50 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:55:17 drewc: even one-shot continuations? 21:55:38 Fare: are we going to capture the dynamic scope? 21:55:49 have an interface for that 21:56:02 Fare: copyable one-shot, eh? 21:56:21 yes - if you want multishot, you must explicitly copy 21:57:59 Fare: so no semantic difference? 21:59:00 Fare: ok, like I do now, contextl has such an interface. so not usable, hence my 'not so great', because of RAM use more than anything else.... but I am of course interested in your solution, yet prefer over first class continuations. 21:59:02 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:59:17 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 21:59:44 in any case, talk to me in a year, after I have experimented with it 22:00:38 *drewc* thinks that monads are a generic LET*, and I prefer monads that have "ANF" for call/cc style then first class continuations :) 22:00:51 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:01:23 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 22:02:12 *drewc* adds 'enhance the docs because what is there is useless : http://drewc.org/interface/monads.html#sec-6 22:02:18 ' 22:04:32 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:07:13 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.224.187.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:08:52 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:09:33 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:14:20 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:14:33 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:18:30 googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 22:18:53 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7556ae.pool.mediaways.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:23:53 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:24:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:24:33 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:27:32 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:29:44 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:30:05 farnearer [~Adium@host86-157-229-101.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:31:09 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:26 Cosman246 [~cosman246@24.56.228.105] has joined #lisp 22:32:53 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:56 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0125f8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:01 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:34:33 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:35:11 -!- skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA006C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:35:54 -!- sz0 [~user@94.55.194.230] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:36:48 skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA0A8C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:37:02 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:37:57 -!- farnearer [~Adium@host86-157-229-101.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 22:39:32 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:39:46 Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:47 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:39:47 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:43:58 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 22:44:28 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:37 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:45:30 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-87-30.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:00 pkkm [~pawel@acxk235.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:48:08 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:48:33 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:48:49 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:53:01 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:54:17 -!- SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:11 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abon92.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 23:04:03 wheelsucker [~user@ip68-8-180-107.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:23 dnolen [~user@12.130.127.68] has joined #lisp 23:05:25 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:07:10 If there is any tdot folks around, I lived there for 17 years, but am a Whitecaps supporter, and today is the day! (I have a link to a stream if any football fans around and happen to want to see the start of MLS ... /query me) 23:07:51 (not lisp related I know, but lispers and football supporters happen to have some overlap) 23:08:56 depends on whether you're talking handegg or football 23:08:57 -!- dnolen [~user@12.130.127.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:15 *p_l* actually doesn't care for either, though 23:11:22 football... foot-ball. Not a handegg fan, and not a supporter for that matter :) 23:11:34 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0125f8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:11:39 -!- i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-091ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:13:01 heh 23:14:13 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:15:11 -!- Knirr [~Knirr@c-e042e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:15:27 can someone tell me what advantages clojure has over cl? 23:15:47 davorb: you need to go to #clojure for that 23:15:49 davorb: you may want to ask in #clojure 23:16:13 yeah, but i'd prefer to hear it from a CL perspective, since i know that :P 23:16:30 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.207.31] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:16:36 davorb: we're here because we don't see clojure to have relevant advantages. 23:16:45 i'm guessing they've got better support for concurrency, because cl just plain doesn't. 23:17:01 H4ns: ah, okay. guess i'll have to try there then. :-) 23:17:05 davorb: concurrency support, enterprise class vm, large, vibrant community, more modern. 23:17:26 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.197.6] has joined #lisp 23:17:45 cl doesn't support concurrency? that's news to me 23:17:49 davorb: but really, if you go to #clojure, you'll avoid all the cl-diehards intercept and claim that all these are not real advantages :) 23:17:52 CL doesn't? odd 23:17:54 davorb: there you go. 23:18:01 i guess i've been using it wrong all this time 23:18:03 I wonder what language I program in 23:19:14 davorb: well, "built-in" concurrency support, in "one correct way" 23:19:49 hmm... whee, I can do flight training on H-1B. One more way to hunt down drewc for prodding 23:20:05 *drewc* is not claiming advantages at all, just, I suppose, he likes 'common' common lisp over ANSI CL these days. :) 23:22:43 p_l: H-1B is USA visa yeah? Just below us, in the states, well, Ganja is legal... and Cascadia is what we call Vancouver/Wash/Oregon ... The Cascade Mountains :) 23:23:21 drewc: yeah, I'll know next week if I'll be moving to USA this fall 23:23:49 still, closer to play "hunt the boat" than flying from EU ;P 23:24:44 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-234-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:24:57 and flight training is much cheaper in USA 23:26:16 davorb: CL doesn't have the same level of marketing experts and hype as clojure, not since Paul Graham decided to start his own religion separate from Common Lisp at least. CL has had to survive on barely any marketing ever since. 23:26:40 good, less riffraff 23:26:52 s/barely any/practically zero/ 23:26:54 other advantages clojure has is better CSS 23:27:00 -!- pkkm [~pawel@acxk235.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:27:03 p_l: true dat. Well,keep me informed ... the border is about a 3 hour sail from here, and I do not mind cruising at all :) 23:27:42 and a standard logo, lisp has 4 or 5 from various decades. 23:28:00 hi 23:28:06 does C have a log? 23:28:22 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [] 23:28:34 please is there a way to set cnew_rtscts in serial c_flag using sb-posix package? 23:29:08 Posterdati: is there a reason why you don't want to use stty? 23:29:34 is stty an external program? 23:29:37 yes 23:29:57 Posterdati: it looked like you knew it when I mentionned it yesterday! 23:30:13 pjb: about stty? 23:30:34 stassats: logf and log in math.h ? 23:30:40 Posterdati: yes. 23:31:02 ah yes, but I prefer to program the serial inside my code 23:31:37 (ext:run-program "stty" '("/dev/ttyXYZ" "b9600" )) 23:32:01 that is not even needed. just initialize the device using stty at boot time, done. 23:32:04 Posterdati: otherwise it's CFFI or iolib. 23:32:04 pjb: no, a piece of wood 23:32:25 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 23:32:46 has iolib serial port capabilities? 23:33:33 Posterdati: no, but it has ioctl. 23:33:59 Posterdati: perhaps you should first learn how to program the serial lines on unix in C. 23:34:08 or use stty 23:34:09 :D 23:34:22 pjb: I did a lot of time 23:34:46 pjb: I followed the Serial Programmin Guide for POSIX Operating Systems 23:35:01 I found it suffice for my needs 23:35:02 So you just do the same thing in lisp using CFFI (or iolib). 23:35:49 CFFI seems simplier 23:42:55 -!- googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:44:11 -!- bubo_ [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:48:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:51:47 cantcode [~cantcode@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 23:54:08 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:54:14 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 23:55:24 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@24.56.228.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:56:03 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:58:01 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 23:58:25 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest86894 23:59:23 Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.228.105] has joined #lisp 23:59:59 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]