00:00:56 wheelsucker [~user@ip68-8-180-107.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:05 -!- stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:02:25 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:30 -!- luis changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: CFFI 0.11.0, Babel 0.4.0, trivial-garbage 0.20, trivial-features 0.7, ASDF 2.30, SBCL 1.1.4, Hunchentoot 1.2.11, cl-fad 0.7.0, Yason 0.6.3 00:03:25 cool 00:04:16 now fe[nl]ix can't talk his way out of releasing iolib 00:05:20 -!- Guest48574 [~on@107.Red-88-1-210.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 00:06:26 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:07:29 stassats`: it was I who insisted on releasing cffi :) 00:08:05 I'll release iolib tomorrow during the Berlin lisp meetup 00:08:14 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 00:08:19 live? 00:08:37 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-rhwxbdltkylqpnaa] has joined #lisp 00:09:39 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:03 drmeister [~drmeister@108.52.166.246] has joined #lisp 00:10:31 toekutr [~user@50.0.51.11] has joined #lisp 00:11:13 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:30 hi. what does this mean, "t" cannot be printed readably? http://paste.lisp.org/display/135651 00:11:31 iolib isn't released already? 00:11:39 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:11:44 fe[nl]ix: are you living in Berlin these days? 00:12:14 dto: it means that the type of this string cannot be reconstructed upon reading 00:12:49 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:12:55 hmm 00:12:56 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:13:06 -!- Fare changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: CFFI 0.11.0, Babel 0.4.0, trivial-garbage 0.20, trivial-features 0.7, ASDF 2.31, SBCL 1.1.4, Hunchentoot 1.2.11, cl-fad 0.7.0, Yason 0.6.3 00:13:12 stassats`: damn, you make telepathic debugging look easy. 00:13:27 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:13:33 well, to expand, it's most probably simple-base-string 00:13:58 stassats`: would such a string result from doing anything uncouth with (for example) format? 00:14:45 no, format returns simple-strings 00:14:56 or it can be a non-simple-string 00:15:04 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:11 i'll have to take a deeper look. 00:15:24 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:35 could you fix it with (coerce whatever 'simple-string)? 00:15:58 or with just not setting *print-readably* to T 00:17:13 thanks stassats` :) 00:17:16 hold on i'll try. 00:18:36 hiato_ [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 00:19:24 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:19:43 i'm using with-standard-io-syntax in one place, let me make sure it's always being used (hyperspec says it sets Readably to t) 00:20:20 well, making sure it's always used won't make not simple-strings be readable in SBCL 00:20:45 can i use the coercion Bike described? 00:21:15 if that's what you want, you can use it 00:21:19 you can bind *print-readably* to NIL, as stassats` described 00:21:28 or you can (setf *print-readably* nil) 00:21:51 this is serialization code that writes my game levels to disk and reads them back, so i need readability. it usually works fine, i just encountered this today. 00:21:57 hello Fare :) 00:22:01 hi 00:22:55 *print-readably* won't magically make things readable, it'll just throw errors 00:23:24 or make printing variables which conflict with readability be ignore, but that's irrelevant when with-standard-io-syntax is used 00:24:19 it only seems to choke on this one string "t" the data to be stored. 00:24:29 s/the data to be stored// 00:24:57 i'll inspect more. 00:25:06 did you do (string-downcase (symbol-name t)) or something? 00:25:39 probably yeah in the course of printing symbol names, but not during serialization----but yeah that would be in the data 00:26:04 i've narrowed it down to one spot i think, thanks stassats` 00:26:09 for your hints :) very helpful 00:27:24 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:27:26 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:27:33 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 00:27:43 luis: yes, I came for the lisp meetup and to see some friends 00:28:48 oh, just visiting then. Cool. 00:29:40 but I'm considering moving here 00:30:29 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:48 rme [~rme@50.43.190.179] has joined #lisp 00:37:44 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:12 stassats`: fixed it. thanks. yeah i was ding something inappropriate with strings :) 00:38:16 ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has joined #lisp 00:38:16 -!- ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has quit [Changing host] 00:38:16 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 00:38:16 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 00:40:50 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:41:05 -!- wheelsucker [~user@ip68-8-180-107.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:41:46 is the people paying 49.95 for this? XD http://nostarch.com/lisp.htm 00:48:46 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:49:46 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 00:51:09 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-10.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:54:14 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:00:56 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.205.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:34 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:03:07 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:05:24 Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.205.229] has joined #lisp 01:05:54 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.205.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:16 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 01:06:30 Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.205.229] has joined #lisp 01:06:46 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:08:38 -!- waveman [~tim@101.174.161.170] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:09:29 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 01:13:06 -!- youtopia [~AllInOne@19.Red-2-140-210.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:16:25 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.163.83] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:16:42 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 01:17:55 is there any FP-heavy code to benchmark? 01:21:02 agumonkey [~agu@32.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:55 stassats: maybe pkhuong's glorious napa fft? 01:22:53 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 01:23:27 I have an object with a slot; how do I find where that slot was defined? 01:26:03 why do you need to know that? 01:26:52 stassats: in this case, I want to know if there is an accessor defined for it; the documentation for it would be nice too 01:27:08 oh, so, that's easier 01:27:38 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.240.223.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:08 slot-definition-readers and slot-definition-writers, right? 01:32:33 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:32:38 -!- luqui [luqui@45C7C484.81CAA87B.83A2E941.IP] has quit [Quit: luqui] 01:32:38 -!- luqui [~luqui@23.31.73.66] has quit [Quit: luqui] 01:32:44 jasom: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135652 01:32:50 turns out, it's not easier 01:33:10 stassats: and same thing if I only have an initarg for it? 01:33:25 yes 01:35:52 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 01:36:38 jasom: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135652#1 01:37:54 what if it's a slot in the class itself? 01:38:12 then just remove cdr 01:38:17 I already checked that 01:40:11 jasom: I'm curious, what are you *actually* doing? :) 01:40:13 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40:57 if you just want to know yourself: in slime, C-c M-i on the class, click on one of the Effective Slots 01:41:08 then see ALLOCATION-CLASS, in SBCL only 01:41:42 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:23 stassats: that gives me fuzzy-completion 01:42:34 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 01:42:43 M-x slime-inspect-definition 01:43:34 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has joined #lisp 01:43:51 clox [~user@static-76-161-84-50.dsl.cavtel.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:25 stassats: "Not in a definition" 01:44:36 well, you heard it 01:44:38 stassats: it's defined using a macro that calls defclass 01:45:06 bloody hell, then just do C-c I (find-class class-name) 01:45:42 slime-inspect-definition should macro-expand or something 01:46:38 or C-c I class-name and go from there 01:46:57 stassats: that did it 01:47:35 slime-inspect-definition and slime-disassemble-definition frustratingly fail on wrapper macros 01:48:15 would be fixed in the next slime-killer IDE, of course 01:48:57 okay, no wonder I couldn't find it; it doesn't exist, the example was wrong 01:49:38 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:05 hm, that gives me an idea for the "next slime-killer IDE", should be something which destroys slime 01:50:44 dto [~user@96.252.62.13] has joined #lisp 01:51:00 and the logo would be http://art.ngfiles.com/images/86/zantothedread_slime-killer.jpg 01:51:05 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51:54 stassats: Erdrick or Loto? 01:52:16 uh? huh? 01:52:47 stassats: the hero from the original Dragon Warrior/Dragon Quest game; the most well known enemy is the slime 01:52:59 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 01:53:00 well, that's too nerdy 01:53:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slime_(Dragon_Quest) 01:53:05 stassats: haha 01:54:56 or maybe call it MALE, Miles Ahead Lisp Environment 01:55:28 (Miles is an anagram for Slime, as a bonus) 01:56:09 and MALE is an anagram for LAME, so it checks out 01:56:24 and MEAL 01:56:38 minion: what does MALE stand for? 01:56:39 Misalter Ammocoete Lamp Extropical 01:57:51 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:00 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:04 and that's going to be an official t-shirt: http://skreened.com/render-product/k/k/h/kkhkywebqelgvnumsksq/dance-faster-you-slime-killer-and-snail-crime-time-mystery.american-apparel-unisex-fitted-tee.white.w760h760.jpg 02:01:17 :D 02:02:39 the hard part is decided, now somebody should just write it 02:03:59 sw2wolf [~czsq888@222.209.242.146] has joined #lisp 02:04:29 paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:04:50 -!- Yuuhi [benni@pD9F98E1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:06:01 -!- ikki 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03:29:25 I haven't explicitly set such a nickname 03:29:48 yeah, it happens even without nicknames. 03:29:49 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 03:31:03 ok, that's swank:*auto-abbreviate-dotted-packages* 03:31:15 ah neat 03:31:46 *stassats* goes to disable it 03:31:51 doesn't seem exported... 03:32:27 stassats: have you ever loaded up and in-packaged a pjb package 03:32:52 do i look like i would do such a thing? 03:32:58 no 03:34:42 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:36 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:12 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:22 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:41:40 p_nathan [~vlion@w141180.wireless.fsr.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:27 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 03:44:51 kpreid 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-!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:54:12 -!- agumonkey [~agu@32.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:54:45 stassats: That var should be replaced by something like swank:*package-abbreviation-function*. 04:54:47 waveman [~tim@101.174.161.170] has joined #lisp 04:54:58 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.190.179] has left #lisp 04:59:43 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.168.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:00:00 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.80.98] has joined #lisp 05:01:21 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.78.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:01:21 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:55 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:03:03 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:03:05 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation 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mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:57:11 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 08:00:01 -!- Ralt [~Ralt@ip1.smh.prowebce.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:00:01 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@108.52.166.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:01:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:03:54 Ralt [~Ralt@ip1.smh.prowebce.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:16 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-046-005-062-174.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:07:35 momo-reina [~user@110.50.241.76] has joined #lisp 08:08:15 -!- miql [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:10:00 miql [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:47 Ener2 [~enerccio@158.194.169.56] has joined #lisp 08:11:09 hello, I was wondering if it is possible to have global variable without it being special? 08:11:42 Ener2: what are you trying to do? why do you want your global variable not be special? 08:12:08 H4ns: I want to use lisp in my multiprocessing class 08:12:19 and? 08:12:19 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:12:43 and thus, at least in implementation I want to use (ECL), every special binding is independent by thread 08:13:05 then don't bind the special variable ever 08:14:01 what do you mean? 08:14:10 even if I do 08:14:18 (defparameter *x*) 08:14:28 the other thread will see nil there, even if one thread assigns to it 08:14:53 You mean defvar? 08:15:19 arent those the same? 08:15:24 with minor differences 08:15:39 Well defparameter has two required arguments, for a start. 08:15:56 Ener2: by "assigns to it", you're saying that you setf or setq it? 08:16:04 the only difference is with reader 08:16:12 H4ns: setf 08:16:24 although, doesnt that expand into setq? 08:16:27 Ener2: yes. 08:16:53 anyway (defparameter *foo* 9), *foo* => 9, (bt:make-thread (lambda () (setf *foo* 7))), *foo* => 7 08:16:54 Ener2: well, then ecl automatically binds all specials per thread, which i would not expect. 08:16:59 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:17:19 in ccl, i guess i should say 08:17:33 Ener2: you'll need to consult the ecl manual how you can share bindings across threads. threads are not standardized, and most implementations have shared global bindings for specials. ecl seems to deviate from that. 08:18:27 -!- momo-reina [~user@110.50.241.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18:43 H4ns: I see 08:18:51 I was kinda forced to use global (let ( 08:18:55 for functions 08:18:58 it was kinda horrible 08:19:25 i would expect ecl to provide you with a mechanism that allows sharing of state between threads, but i've never used it, so i don't know 08:19:32 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:19:40 a global let would certainly not be what i would use. 08:19:58 I was out of ideas at the time 08:21:47 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:22:30 The reverse would be more sensible. 08:22:38 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:22:45 If specials are not bound per thread then the semantics of CL become very confused. 08:23:01 I'd expect an option to allow a global binding over all threads. 08:23:49 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.80.98] has joined #lisp 08:25:27 well I will have to look at the doc then 08:25:30 thanks guys 08:25:33 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 08:25:34 -!- Ener2 [~enerccio@158.194.169.56] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121027181922]] 08:27:33 -!- toekutr [~user@50.0.51.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:30:12 -!- miql [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:32:36 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:33:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit 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[~user@195.18.46.21] has joined #lisp 12:49:18 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-74-224.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:49:42 qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 12:51:58 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:52:23 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-177-66-41.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52:32 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-177-66-41.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:52:51 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 12:53:46 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:54:31 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.80.98] has joined #lisp 12:54:34 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.80.98] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:55:13 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.80.98] has joined #lisp 12:55:38 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 12:57:09 -!- qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:57:39 mgs [~Mark@li357-97.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 12:58:33 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:59:09 lithp world! 13:00:00 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.209] has joined #lisp 13:04:25 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:35 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:04:51 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 13:05:56 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has quit [Quit: home] 13:07:01 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:07:32 -!- pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:09:21 . 13:09:22 hi 13:09:24 damn work 13:09:31 wish i could do lithp fulltime 13:09:54 -!- akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:09:58 i wish people would stop substituting s with th 13:10:11 It's a recognised handicap. 13:10:21 when typing? 13:10:26 Zhivago: lame humour ? 13:10:30 -!- stassats changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.1.5, CFFI 0.11.0, Babel 0.4.0, trivial-garbage 0.20, trivial-features 0.7, ASDF 2.31, Hunchentoot 1.2.11, cl-fad 0.7.0, Yason 0.6.3 13:10:43 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:13:48 in the olden days, your environment would start up with "LITHP ITH LITHENING". 13:15:24 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 13:16:40 pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has joined #lisp 13:16:50 clhs with-simple-restart 13:16:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_smp_.htm 13:17:45 -!- agumonkey is now known as agumonbikey 13:17:51 tcr [~tcr@95.215.120.191] has joined #lisp 13:17:51 -!- tcr [~tcr@95.215.120.191] has quit [Client Quit] 13:18:43 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 13:18:55 -!- knob [~knob@173.215.223.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:19:16 huh, stassats is faster than me following my release script 13:19:29 -!- Krystof has set mode -o Krystof 13:19:34 -!- karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:19:44 you should automate that part 13:19:46 karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:21:11 -!- pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:59 pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has joined #lisp 13:24:15 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 13:25:30 -!- pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:26:10 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:26:11 pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has joined #lisp 13:26:18 Krystof: my recompile (due to stassts) was also faster than you :) 13:26:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:28:01 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:28:27 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:30:46 -!- pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:30:53 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:00 well, i recompiled yesterday 13:31:18 pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has joined #lisp 13:31:20 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:36 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: EvW] 13:31:59 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:32:06 -!- pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:32:31 stassats: well, me too. but yesterday i did not get the shiny "SBCL 1.1.5" output from --version. 13:32:36 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-1-51.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:34:24 akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has joined #lisp 13:34:25 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:35:07 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:13 -!- karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:35:19 you could've just patched the binary 13:37:00 and then report strange bugs 13:37:17 karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:37:34 because of course it's such a simple matter that nothing can go wrong 13:37:37 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 13:38:03 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.178.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:38:18 actually, it is simple 13:38:45 -!- miql [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:38:56 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.211] has joined #lisp 13:39:11 and bloody hexl stopped working 13:39:22 pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has joined #lisp 13:39:26 real men use dd 13:40:24 oh, i see, "text file busy" 13:40:57 % ./sbcl --version => SBCL 1.1.5; success 13:40:59 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:34 and (replace (lisp-implementation-version) "1.1.5 "), then save an image 13:42:24 or better, modify the vector header to adjust length 13:43:00 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:43:09 all that would take more time than rebuilding, but it saves on electricity 13:44:00 nice introductory exercise to learn a bit of internals, though (the vector header adjustment) 13:44:05 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:15 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:44:56 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.40] has joined #lisp 13:45:27 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 13:46:05 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:46:58 miql [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:12 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:47:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:48:35 for x86-64: (progn (replace (lisp-implementation-version) "1.1.5") (setf (sb-sys:sap-ref-8 (sb-sys:vector-sap (lisp-implementation-version)) -8) (* 2 (length "1.1.5")))) 13:48:49 next step, a portable solution 13:49:18 -!- pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:56:58 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 13:58:18 stassats: what does that do? 13:58:26 magic 13:58:35 lol 13:58:42 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.251.139.151] has joined #lisp 13:58:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-203.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:59:02 hehe 13:59:36 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:59:50 impomatic [~digital_w@146.90.165.144] has joined #lisp 14:01:38 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 14:03:15 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:23 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.233.191] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:07:41 huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.233.191] has joined #lisp 14:09:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:10:31 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:11:29 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:12:10 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:12:38 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:17:06 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:22:24 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:22:54 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:22:54 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:23:42 loke [~elias@bb115-66-218-239.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:25:16 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 14:25:42 clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:26:58 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:10 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:27:27 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177916775.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:28:09 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:09 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:29:16 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 14:30:59 -!- sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: KEEP SPARKS. FLAME AWAY.] 14:32:07 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bbl] 14:33:05 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:34:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:34:33 apparently cl-charm is what to use to interactively use the terminal/console, is there a top like application in CL already? 14:35:35 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:36:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:36:33 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 14:37:56 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:39:40 weirdo, see the lispjobs blog and/or apply at the usual suspects (Google, etc.) 14:40:22 Fare, i like my present job at the small company 14:40:32 it's lisp's fault for not being popular, catch-22 14:40:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:40:43 they're even interested in my vision work 14:40:58 but it's C++ and not lisp 14:41:28 weirdo, if you want it to become more popular, make it 14:41:40 Fare, working on clcl in spare time 14:42:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:42:32 refactoring is a pain 14:43:01 wish lisp was less dynamic :-( 14:43:07 i should really look into qi 14:43:24 except that sequent calculus type system throws me off 14:43:34 wish it was more ml-like 14:43:37 -!- agumonbikey is now known as agumonkey 14:43:41 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 14:43:59 its pattern matching is pretty ml-like 14:44:15 and you could use a sexp syntax for same, if the sequent syntax is no good for you 14:44:18 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:44:33 does it have nominal typing? 14:44:41 wish it had structural 14:45:07 stassats`: ping 14:46:24 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:48:11 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:51:05 stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:44 fe[nl]ix: yes 14:52:59 nevermind, problem solved by updating slime 14:53:07 something with a package lock on sb-c 14:54:42 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:58:28 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 14:58:36 boobalu [~bom@198.187.30.171] has joined #lisp 14:58:43 -!- boobalu [~bom@198.187.30.171] has left #lisp 14:59:28 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 15:01:11 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:28 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 15:01:53 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 15:01:54 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-89.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:03:05 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:04:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:06:22 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:06:31 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:07:06 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:07:11 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/x-rhwxbdltkylqpnaa] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:25 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 15:08:32 weirdo: start using lisp for your work 15:08:47 and less dynamic ... why? 15:09:01 bitonic [~user@dyn1220-240.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:10:18 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:11:15 clhs require 15:11:15 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_provid.htm 15:11:39 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177916775.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:11:57 zorkmoid, i can't, silly bosses won't allow it 15:12:08 zorkmoid, refactoring and 'proofs' are bothersome 15:12:31 what does your boss have to do with choice of language? that isn't for managers to decide... 15:12:51 just uses "i zswear it works" line of proof 15:12:53 zorkmoid, they say if i quit, they won't find another thingie 15:12:54 use 15:13:04 ugh 15:13:08 s/thingie/worker 15:13:09 also 15:13:18 i already once quit due to depression 15:13:22 weirdo: change jobs. 15:13:32 zorkmoid, but i don't want to 15:13:45 "sorry, you can't use algorithm A cause you know ... someone might not understand it" 15:13:58 that's bullshit, sorry 15:14:19 also there's some stuff like wowza media server that requires JVM, barely anyone uses ABCL 15:14:19 i'd change jobs asap 15:14:33 zorkmoid, i'm past this stage, wide-eyed lisp evangelism 15:14:45 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: trivial-irc-0.0.4] 15:14:53 and yet you're complaining 15:14:58 indeed ... 15:15:00 hehe 15:15:07 i don't understand that either 15:15:27 well i really don't know how production-ready ABCL is 15:15:39 and a lot of stuff depends on JVM being operational 24/7 15:15:44 if it fails due to SIMPLE-ERROR 15:15:46 yay, ABCL no longer prints those spurious macro redefinition warnings 15:15:49 :) 15:15:55 knob [~knob@adsl-173-228-214-147.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:55 weirdo: just about ntohing requires 24/7 operation. 15:16:54 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:16:54 i used to draw up what it would cost to have 24/7 operation for things, people got scared .. and ended up with "well, if it doesn't crash to much" 15:16:56 zorkmoid, yeah, but it'd be pretty embarassing if kitten of death awaited, due to some ABCL error 15:17:17 kitten of death? 15:17:18 weirdo: which is something that cannot happen with a c++ program 15:17:21 no wait 15:17:37 H4ns, my C++ vision stuff can't be rewritten in Lisp due to 60hz requirement 15:17:48 i already stopped downscaling the image 15:17:50 weirdo: eh, what? 15:17:52 weirdo: you cannot write it. 15:17:53 wackOnline [da68c8b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.104.200.182] has joined #lisp 15:17:59 weirdo: yes it can, you can't maybe .. 15:18:11 H4ns, github sthalik/headtracker - good luck, sir 15:18:21 here's a dime, buy yourself a real computer 15:18:24 weirdo: maybe it is best if you stay with c++ and find a c++ channel where you're getting applause for complaining about lisp. 15:18:29 hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 15:18:33 stassats`, there are people with non-i7's that are using it 15:19:01 H4ns, that's just one thing that can't be rewritten. technically i could use ABCL on jvm 15:19:12 but, but but 15:19:20 weirdo: if i rewrite it in cl, and get more than 60hz, what do you pay me? 15:19:32 hello H4ns :) 15:19:37 zorkmoid, this is hobby project. you'd have my eternal gratitude at best 15:19:37 :) 15:19:39 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1220-240.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:42 fe[nl]ix: o/ 15:19:48 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:19:51 weirdo: oh, so not it isn't even in production .. 15:20:02 well then. 15:20:03 zorkmoid, vision stuff isn't 15:20:15 WMS3 stuff isn't either, but we're working on it 15:20:20 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:20:22 dude is testing it 15:20:33 company deals with media streaming 15:20:42 weirdo: my fee is about 1k/hour, feel free to contact me if you need cl support. 15:21:11 1k of dimes? that's a lot of real computers 15:21:17 H4ns: what time will you be at st. oberholz ? 15:21:32 fe[nl]ix: at around 8. are you in berlin? 15:21:45 yes 15:21:51 nice, see you then! :) 15:21:55 bitonic [~user@dyn1220-240.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:22:07 ok :) 15:22:38 weirdo: if you can get the performance you want with c++ of all things, then it is simple enough to get it in a decent cl implementation (cmucl, sbcl come to mind). 15:22:40 fe[nl]ix should be easy to spot, he wears a water melon on his head 15:23:03 stassats: .o 15:24:46 stassats: only during summer 15:25:06 zorkmoid, sbcl needs inlining for doubles 15:25:26 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:25:49 rme [~rme@50.43.190.179] has joined #lisp 15:26:21 zorkmoid, also i need a tree shaker 15:27:18 weirdo: looks like you're coming up with excuses as you go 15:27:38 weirdo: if only the sbcl source code was available 15:27:40 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:27:42 :) 15:28:06 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:20 weirdo: why do you need a tree shaker? 15:28:31 paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:31 weirdo: how do you know that not inlinign double is a problem? 15:28:35 premature optimization. 15:29:18 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-89.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:29:37 it's very hard to write performant numerical code if you have to box and unbox the numbers 15:29:53 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:30:18 and at the moment in sbcl that essentially means having to inline any functions that take double parameters / return doubles (single-floats are fine on x86-64) 15:30:52 and sometimes inlining isn't possible 15:30:56 zorkmoid, on MSVC it gives 2 MB binaries, if i had to give users 30MB cores, they'd be less than happy :-) 15:30:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:30:56 or using structures/specialized-arrays 15:31:02 stassats, true 15:31:10 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.211] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 15:31:26 so really, that's exactly the kind of thing that you want to know in advance and take into account in the original design, not find out by profiling 15:31:33 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:32:05 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 15:32:12 weirdo: i distribtue worlds to users, nobody has ever complained. 15:32:19 mathrick [~mathrick@87-51-52-210-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:32 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:32:43 some of them are around 300MiB .. beat that. 15:32:53 spaceships [~spaceship@host-72-174-137-126.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:04 That sounds about the size of an HP printer driver 15:35:23 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 15:35:36 at a former workplace all C++ code was statically linked. the guys in the room next to me had >1GB binaries 15:35:48 exactly, people don't care about binary size 100% of the time. 15:36:18 jsnell: same here 15:36:26 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:36:47 One of the reason we're migrating to 64-bit binaries is because the linker can't handle the binary size anymore :-) 15:36:49 *|3b|* wonders if we need a #lisp-dead-horse channel or something 15:36:53 :) 15:37:18 |3b|: hey, no current affairs references 15:38:37 -!- splittist [d4cb4e8a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.203.78.138] has left #lisp 15:39:25 -!- weirdo [sthalik@kronstadt.misaki.pl] has left #lisp 15:39:34 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-qswaudbiqelhvora] has joined #lisp 15:41:15 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:45:21 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 15:45:28 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:36 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:45:36 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 15:52:14 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:00 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:53:47 <|3b|> hmm, sbcl produces rather unhelpful errors for (defun foo () (Loop for i in (vector) maximize i)) 15:56:19 <|3b|> (when compiled with C-c C-c, gets it right in repl) 15:56:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:57:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:57:33 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-218-239.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:37 Thra11 [~thrall@45.77.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:27 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-89.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:01:42 -!- Ralt [~Ralt@ip1.smh.prowebce.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:03:06 i tries to save the context for the error, and the context is not dumpable 16:03:38 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:04:30 mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE.wireless.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 16:04:52 Ralt [~Ralt@ip1.smh.prowebce.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:53 <|3b|> stassats: is there a trivial fix or should i keep writing a bug report? 16:05:07 you should 16:06:00 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:06:06 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:10:20 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 16:10:54 morphling [~stefan@95.117.64.14] has joined #lisp 16:11:49 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:12:54 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/x-qswaudbiqelhvora] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:47 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:14:28 Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has joined #lisp 16:15:30 <|3b|> ok, filed as https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/1133423 16:15:55 <|3b|> seems to have happened some time between 1.0.29 and 1.0.48.35 16:16:56 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.168.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:17:43 maybe we should save a printed representation of context, not a s-exp 16:19:24 or at least of things which could not be dumped 16:19:30 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:22:14 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:45 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:03 nixos has the advantages of static linking with those of dynamic linking. 16:24:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:24:38 so your binaries can share a library, yet be sure they are always linked with the same, working, version 16:24:43 -!- asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:24:46 Berlin seems to be becoming a magnet for lisp hackers. 16:25:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:26:04 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:15 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 16:32:13 -!- hiato [~nine@196.215.121.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:32:38 rme: sure, because they are trying to conquer the world again ;) 16:33:02 the right tool for the right task ;) 16:34:22 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:35:59 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.178.17.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:36:37 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.53.246] has joined #lisp 16:38:58 joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has joined #lisp 16:39:44 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:40:14 w37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has joined #lisp 16:40:22 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 16:40:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:41:40 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 16:42:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:42:54 no scavenge function for object 0x652b82fe (widetag 0xfe) 16:42:58 -!- androcles [~Jeff@sporkula.ss.uci.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:43:12 what does this mean in sbcl? it throws me into ldb 16:43:42 scavenge, is it a bug? is my sbcl corrupt? 16:45:27 -!- blackwol` is now known as blackwolf 16:45:39 LiamH [~none@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:47:16 usually, it's heap corruption indeed 16:47:25 did you use any low-level FFI code? 16:47:34 no all lisp 16:47:46 any SAFETY 0 code or low-level escape? 16:48:09 or lying about types? 16:48:23 but Fare does it mean the program is bad or my sbcl excutable is "damaged" ? 16:48:42 safety 0 yes I used it all over the code! 16:49:16 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-25-75-216.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:02 well, that explains this 16:50:16 yes, there is some bug in your program 16:50:23 and because of SAFETY 0, you die 16:50:57 you should debug your program with SAFETY 3, say, and then turn SAFETY 0 back on -- possibly only for the perf-critical cod.e 16:52:25 I find the difference between safety 1 and 0 is minimal, on most of my numeric (i.e. FP and bandwidth-bound) code. 16:53:17 ok thanks 16:53:32 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:56:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:44 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.40] has joined #lisp 16:56:53 the time you spent on hunting down this bug should have been spent on domain optimizations and you'd be much better off... 16:58:53 i find that i rarely even need (speed 3) with proper declarations 16:58:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03:31 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 17:03:40 Saturn_ [~rose@111.58.53.29] has joined #lisp 17:04:09 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE.wireless.gmu.edu] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 17:04:26 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:49 alama [~jessealam@stgt-4d025931.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:04 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: (be right back)] 17:05:42 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:34 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:15 androcles [~Jeff@sporkula.ss.uci.edu] has joined #lisp 17:10:00 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 17:13:33 mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE.wireless.gmu.edu] 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[~teggi@113.173.31.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:08 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 18:02:04 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:02:12 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:04:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:05:53 -!- morphling [~stefan@95.117.64.14] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:06:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:06:43 Qworkescence` [~quad@173.252.71.1] has joined #lisp 18:07:13 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:38 -!- wackOnline [da68c8b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.104.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:15:04 Fare: therep 18:15:19 -!- akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:16:27 akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has joined #lisp 18:16:53 t 18:17:10 so, my (asdf:initialize-output-translations `(:output-translations (t (,*fasl-dir* :implementation)) :inherit-configuration)) doesn't work with ABCL's jars 18:17:18 impomatic [~digital_w@146.90.165.144] has joined #lisp 18:17:33 their output still goes to ~/.cache/common-lisp 18:18:15 lemme look 18:18:23 ABCL has some magic somewhere about jars... 18:18:24 *output-translations* has something like (#P"/___jar___file___root___/**/*.*" #P"/home/stas/.cache/common-lisp/abcl-1.2.0-dev-svn-14404m-fasl39-linux-x64/**/*.*") 18:18:37 AeroNotix [~xeno@abop77.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:18:40 -!- jaaso [~jaaso_@effic.me] has left #lisp 18:19:41 my eyes 18:19:54 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:20:54 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1220-240.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:21:04 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:00 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.80.98] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:22:17 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-46-197.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 18:22:19 see wrapping-output-translations 18:23:36 you apparently need to override this with ("/___jar___file___root___/" (,*fasl-dir* :implementation "___jar___file___root___")) or some such 18:24:09 OR you can (setf *user-cache* *fasl-dir*) 18:24:22 before the output-translations is initialized 18:25:05 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@87-51-52-210-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:27:07 *user-cache* has some special format 18:27:47 it also accepts pathnames 18:28:09 otherwise, it's in the usual location language of output-translations and source-registry 18:28:14 and it's not exported 18:28:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:29:49 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abop77.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 18:30:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:30:17 so, i set it to (setf asdf/configuration::*user-cache* `(,*fasl-dir* :implementation)), appears to work 18:33:06 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:33:11 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:33:24 *stassats* would just hope that asdf/configuration::*user-cache* doesn't disappear from under hist feet 18:33:25 iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 18:34:23 splittist [~splittist@99-21.63-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:35:00 Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.15] has joined #lisp 18:37:56 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:27 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-awtzjhmvgzthnsuw] has joined #lisp 18:39:34 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:40:23 dioxirane [~abimis@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 18:41:08 -!- Saturn_ [~rose@111.58.53.29] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:41:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:42:55 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:43:12 -!- LiamH [~none@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:43:19 miql [~miql@ip72-201-141-38.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:46 -!- sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:04 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 18:48:51 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 18:50:36 -!- dioxirane [~abimis@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:55:32 C-Keen [cckeen@pestilenz.org] has joined #lisp 18:55:48 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@45.77.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:59:42 *stassats* pushed commont changes upstream, some more fixes and performance improvements 18:59:56 and with the next quicklisp, it'll work with ABCL out of the box 19:00:35 DrCode_ [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 19:01:30 dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 19:01:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:02:15 sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 19:03:23 lisp__ [~quad@173.252.71.7] has joined #lisp 19:03:23 -!- lisp__ is now known as Quadrescence 19:03:53 -!- Quadrescence is now known as Guest62158 19:03:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:03:59 huh, asdf seems to be broken in ABCL in some another way, loading the same system the second time triggers compilation 19:04:04 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-133-140.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:04:06 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:04:07 -!- DrCode_ is now known as DrCode 19:04:23 -!- Guest62158 is now known as Quadrescence` 19:04:28 oh, that's not just ABCL, that's everywhere 19:05:15 -!- Quadrescence` is now known as Quadrescence 19:05:21 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@173.252.71.7] has quit [Changing host] 19:05:22 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:05:36 of the qt system, it uses some custom components for compiling .so 19:05:55 -!- Qworkescence` [~quad@173.252.71.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:06:21 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:37 cdidd [~cdidd@95-25-98-72.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:07:08 -!- Quadrescence is now known as Qworkescence 19:07:31 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:11:00 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.53.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:11:38 not for a random simple system 19:11:51 no 19:11:53 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:11:57 there must be one system in your dependency chain that does something that requires recompilation 19:11:58 and it has something to do with output translations 19:12:01 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.23.205] has joined #lisp 19:12:46 I ought to implement a module that explains WHY something needs to be recompiled 19:13:20 commonqt wants to put a generated Makefile into the current directory, but asdf thinks it's in *user-cache* 19:13:48 oh. 19:14:09 it can use T as the second value of output-files to ensure it's not translated 19:14:10 WARNING: loading # completed without its input file #P"/tmp/fasls/sbcl-1.1.4.36-506af58-dirty-linux-x64/home/stas/lisp/site/commonqt/Makefile" 19:14:36 it does do so for .so, but not for Makefile 19:14:45 let's add it and see what happens 19:14:46 or it can query output-files and use make -f $translated_makefile 19:15:24 dunno if -f works with bsdmake 19:15:39 well, the idea is for make work both from .asd and manually 19:15:51 the freebsd manpage says yes 19:16:20 so, for that means putting the results into the source tree 19:16:24 ok 19:16:39 well, that's why (values ... t) is available in output-files 19:16:56 yeah, you're distracting me from adding it! 19:17:37 that doesn't seem to help 19:17:56 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 19:17:58 but i no longer see that warning, which is a plus... somewhat 19:20:00 Fare: i summon your help: https://github.com/stassats/commonqt/blob/master/qt.asd 19:20:20 looking... 19:20:59 the defmethod source-file-type is a ASDF1-ism that I'd like to quash 19:21:16 is that the master repo for commonqt, or a fork? 19:21:24 a master 19:21:32 well, a masterish repo 19:22:17 the master mater repo is in gitorious, but those are the same for all intents and purposes 19:22:18 cloning 19:23:08 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-74-224.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:15 is it OK to make it incompatible with ASDF1 ? 19:23:31 yes 19:23:31 with ASDF < 2.21 ? 19:23:40 not sure about that 19:24:01 *fe[nl]ix* works on releasing iolib 19:24:10 it's ok for me personally, but i don't know about the people who use it 19:24:20 it will depend on the ASDF Faré released 5 minutes ago 19:24:44 or, on the commit, to be more precise 19:25:58 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:26:10 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-208-66-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 19:27:43 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 19:27:43 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE.wireless.gmu.edu] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:27:45 well quicklisp is at 2.26 19:28:07 but OK, I'll try to make it work with quicklisp's previous 2.014.6, which is also the floor for swank-asdf 19:28:17 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:28:35 well, if it requires some wild tricks, similar to swank-asdf, then i'm for 2.21 19:28:59 i don't want a forest of shims 19:31:47 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:00 no, no wild tricks, hopefully. 19:33:06 -!- dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 19:33:20 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 19:33:28 Just a matter of how much I can or cannot cleanup some pathname weirdness. 19:34:15 *stassats`* contemplates how to make commonqt automatically install missing foreign libraries 19:34:39 so that people on windows could just quickload it 19:34:40 if you have a good solution, avodonosov is interested 19:34:50 he wants something like that for cl-test-grid 19:36:43 and i'm not sure whether to put the whole Qt, or just smoke libraries 19:37:23 probably the whole qt is easier for windows users, but that'll take some disk space 19:38:45 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:07 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:40 Yuuhi [benni@pD9F986C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:28 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.251.139.151] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:42 -!- Myk267 [~myk@71.149.249.45] has quit [Quit: Things never change, only rearrange.] 19:47:15 Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-249-45.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:15 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:52:59 stassats, I think I understand your issue 19:53:06 you're creating a new Makefile everytime 19:53:18 let me check 19:53:26 before asdf3, asdf wasn't propagating timestamps, so a new dependency wouldn't cause a recompile 19:53:40 but with asdf3, this bug is fixed, so a new makefile will cause a recompile 19:53:51 -!- splittist [~splittist@99-21.63-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:53:53 or something like that 19:53:53 nope, the makefile is from 9 of February 19:54:57 (operation-done-p o c) returns T 19:55:44 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-sknmppnwqismdeiu] has joined #lisp 19:55:55 -!- Guest37234 [~user@225.Red-83-32-9.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 19:55:56 note that operation-done-p doesn't mean exactly what it used to 19:56:08 and those (unless ...) are probably wrong. 19:57:02 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-sknmppnwqismdeiu] has quit [Client Quit] 19:57:08 I don't think they were ever needed, anyway 20:00:19 it might be an issue with your NOT regenerating the Makefile 20:00:44 commonqt.pro didn't change 20:00:47 because it now indirectly depends on qt.asd 20:01:02 irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.45] has joined #lisp 20:01:35 (input-files 'prepare-op 'qt) ==> (#P"/home/tunes/cl/THIRDPARTY/commonqt/qt.asd") 20:01:54 and that now trickles to making your Makefile depend on it. 20:01:58 timestampwise 20:02:13 so if the Makefile is old, it's considered out of date 20:02:38 that doesn't many any sense to me 20:02:44 yes, yes 20:02:47 let's rewind 20:03:15 there was a bug (forgot the number) that if foo.asd was changed, all files in foo ought to be recompiled, but weren't -- just in case something important changed in foo.asd 20:03:32 this bug was fixed, which was only possible after timestamp propagation worked. 20:03:49 ok, so, let's try to remove this unless 20:04:03 basically, prepare-op system depends on the .asd file, and now everything will be recompiled if the asd file changes 20:04:27 if you remove the unless -- which was useless on ASDF1/2 and is now harmful, everything should work 20:05:01 and run-shell-command returns nil 20:05:31 Hrmm, does fukamachi hang out here at all? Perhaps under a different nick? 20:05:56 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:06:09 ok, now my makefile is new 20:06:59 but make won't recompile .so files, because it doesn't know about .asd 20:07:23 uh? 20:07:39 can you add the .asd in the make dependencies? 20:07:53 it's generated 20:08:03 and i'd rather not, it seems silly 20:09:00 you could have the perform method touch the .so if it's too old 20:09:52 can i break the dependency on .asd somehow? 20:10:17 not really. It would have other bad consequences. 20:10:27 Why not add touch after make ? 20:10:39 in perform compile-op cpp->so 20:10:54 because it's a hack 20:11:12 and there may be no "touch" command 20:11:12 after all the perform will only ever be called but if asdf think it's out of date, in which case, you better touch 20:11:23 no touch on windows? 20:11:53 well, those things are not used on windows at all 20:12:06 there's always touch on linux or bsd 20:12:26 until there isn't 20:12:29 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:02 it's part of IEEE Std 1003.2 20:13:05 there's -B option to make 20:13:06 POSIX 2 20:13:40 is it in bsdmake ? 20:13:45 gmake 20:14:41 -B means something different in bsdmake, but yes, if this is gmake only anyway, that will work 20:14:49 and commonqt.h is not specified as a source, so i if i modify it won't be recompiled by .asd 20:15:23 well, if you want the .asd to know about it, you should add it as an input-files somewhere 20:15:29 can i specify multiple input files? 20:15:33 yes of course 20:15:52 hence the s at the end of the method name 20:16:03 which method name? 20:16:12 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 20:16:12 input-fileS 20:16:24 spion: sylvain? 20:16:26 hm, it's not used here 20:16:36 what's not used? 20:16:40 input-files 20:16:42 method 20:16:46 probably not 20:16:51 i thought about (cpp->so "commonqt.cpp" "commonqt.h") 20:17:06 works too, you can add a dependency on a static-file 20:17:43 or a (defmethod input-files (...) (cons "commonqt.h" (call-next-method))) 20:18:06 that's not declarative enough for my taste 20:18:44 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:19:15 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:19:43 how do i make it depend on a static file? 20:19:43 -!- miql [~miql@ip72-201-141-38.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:52 though it's not really static 20:19:54 (:static-file "commonqt.h) (... :depends-on ("commonqt.h" ...)) --- not declarative enough? 20:20:46 you could make it something else than static, if you want to tell asdf about how to make it 20:21:11 ok, that works, now for run-shell-command returning nil 20:21:34 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-250-231.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:56 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 20:23:10 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-239-30.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:38 instead of 0? ouch. 20:24:50 right 20:25:53 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:03 sbcl? 20:26:08 yes 20:27:04 well, maybe it's not returning 0, i have no idea 20:27:47 that's weird, because I do have test cases for return value of run-shell-command in test-run-program.script, and they pass on SBCL. 20:28:16 it appears to be context dependent 20:28:32 when i exit the debugger, and do run it, it returns 0 20:28:37 but NIL when inside the debugger 20:29:30 ok, found the problem 20:29:36 (with-output-to-string (*verbose-out*) (print (run-shell-command "ls"))) 20:32:58 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.233.191] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:35:06 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:35:45 alphonse23 [~sean@pool-71-107-41-102.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:30 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:36:39 this might be the wrong place to ask this, but what language would be ideal for writing a calculator from basic functions? 20:36:51 the one you know best 20:37:37 dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 20:37:55 so if you know lisp best, would you say that's a good one to work in? 20:38:50 I don't know anything about haskell or erlang, but I'd imagine they'd be good language to write a personal calculator in too 20:39:17 Fare: so, it doesn't return the result in the presence of a non-nil stream 20:39:57 but the results of slurp-input-stream 20:40:59 what stream? 20:41:09 the one i pasted above 20:41:34 oh, I see 20:42:07 ouch. 20:42:52 and asdf:run-program is so intertwined you can hide refuges inside 20:42:53 apologies for the backward incompatibility. 20:43:09 not sure if it's backward, i tried to use it in that way just now 20:43:09 well, that's what portability to 9+ platforms does to your code. 20:43:53 huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has joined #lisp 20:43:57 and does :output include stderr too? 20:43:59 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 20:44:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:44:27 not on sbcl, oh well 20:45:29 -!- dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 20:46:36 and run-program is not implemented for genera, the horror! 20:47:05 :-) 20:47:27 "I accept patches" 20:50:10 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.200.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:50:30 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.23.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:50:46 you know what, the .lisp files don't actually depend on the .so 20:51:10 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.207.197] has joined #lisp 20:51:41 then don't have them do it. 20:51:45 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.35.59] has joined #lisp 20:52:22 though i'd still would like to avoid calling make and qmake needlessly 20:53:49 irpanech` [~user@24.68.147.45] has joined #lisp 20:54:18 well, how would the .asd know it's needless? 20:54:37 so, is there currently in Quicklisp a portable lib to get at command line arguments, and how complex the portable launch.sh is going to be anyway? (simplification, considering only Unix now) 20:55:08 well, knowing that it doesn't depend on the .asd would be a good step 20:55:17 -!- irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:55:18 you could just have a trivial output file flag that says "I've been been built at that date" 20:55:32 a lot of makefiles do that ... create a stamp file 20:55:42 then, asdf would only check the timestamp of that file 20:55:57 same as touching the .so, except it's not the .so but that stamp file that gets touched. 20:56:51 it's not going to be possible to selectively disable the dependency from the lisp files to the .asd 20:56:56 so, i want to have two modules in :components, but both are in the same directory 20:56:58 and not for the .so 20:56:59 WWFD? 20:57:05 F? 20:57:13 :pathname "" 20:57:13 What Would Fare Do 20:57:13 pjb: you did solve the portable launch.sh script problem, right? 20:57:41 if the second module triggers a recompile, everyone that depends on qt will be recompiled, you know 20:57:45 that won't help 20:57:52 but i'll remove :serial t 20:58:00 and could use just one #-windows 20:58:01 yes, so at least the rest of qt won't be recompiled 20:58:07 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:14 or you could put it at the end of the :serial t, also 20:58:29 dim: I have cl-launch that does just that 20:58:40 good 20:58:56 is it going to be deprecated entirely by the new version of asdf? 20:59:10 it depends on a recent asdf and/or on asdf-driver -- but asdf-driver is in quicklisp. 20:59:11 Fare: yes, i thought about that, but then i want an error to be signaled as early as possible 20:59:30 cl-launch was drastically simplified after I published asdf3 20:59:39 dim: there is also clon 20:59:42 but there's still a fair bit of shell code in it. 20:59:49 so you're going to continue maintaining it? 20:59:50 though, that wouldn't probably convince asdf to try it first 20:59:53 oh well... 20:59:57 yes, cl-launch is supported 20:59:59 daimrod: looking at that too 21:00:26 and command-line-arguments -- I'd like to declare it dead and have CLON be its official replacement, but there's a one thing I still don't like about CLON 21:00:38 maybe I can convince Didier to not do it. 21:01:12 dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 21:01:22 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-25-98-72.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:30 my main worry now is that providing a unix launcher is going to be more complex than actually shipping a binary executable image 21:02:12 with asdf3, you can ship a binary executable 21:02:14 hm, now when i modify .cpp, asdf thinks that the makefile must be regenerated too 21:02:15 use program-op 21:02:37 even though i have serial t and (makefile "commonqt.pro") is at the very start 21:02:57 works on sbcl, ccl, clisp, ecl, lispworks, cmucl, scl. I'll accept a patch for allegro. 21:03:22 Fare: nice. is taht in Quicklisp already? in the asdf-driver maybe? 21:03:32 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:04:12 oh, that's make file trying to regenarate itself, not asdf 21:04:13 weired 21:04:18 stassats, are you sure it doesn't just want to be regenerated because you touched qt.asd ? 21:04:43 asdf-driver is in quicklisp; cl-launch too but too old a version 21:05:05 oh, i forgot that i added -B 21:05:06 asdf-driver is in quicklisp, but you need a new asdf/defsystem to use program-op 21:05:31 well, -B is not going to cut it, since it's not guaranteed to be gnu make 21:05:53 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:06:01 or maybe it is, i'm not sure 21:06:22 it goes like if which gmake; then gmake; else make; fi 21:06:39 so, if it's on bsd, it should hit gmake first, assuming it's present 21:07:17 you could also have a file GNUmakefile and no Makefile 21:07:27 if it's working only with gnu make 21:07:35 not doing silly rebuilds after .asd modification would have been even better 21:07:51 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:10:12 what if i put the .so into another system and override (input-files 'prepare-op 'qt.so) ? 21:11:44 timestamps propagate 21:12:04 i have no idea what that means 21:12:17 stassats: gmake is well on *BSD to regenerate /boot/asdf.lisp ,even with a Makefile.. 21:13:01 it means that whatever system it's in, if you declare an output file and the perform rule doesn't make the output file newer than the .asd, then all dependencies will be recompiled next time 21:13:38 either don't declare an output file, or update the output file in the perform method. 21:14:15 not declaring *any* output file, however, means that the target will be marked as needed-in-image-p 21:14:24 unless you defmethod needed-in-image-p (...) nil 21:15:10 alright, that's too arcane, i'll just leave it running make each time 21:15:20 what if I send you a patch? 21:15:33 the preferred method would be to touch a stamp file 21:15:50 stassats: no, better gmake if available.. 21:16:07 for the .so, too, or just the makefile? 21:17:02 only for the .so, but the problem is not that i don't want to write it, but i don't like such a solution 21:18:12 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-046-005-062-174.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:19:40 -!- hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has left #lisp 21:19:57 -!- irpanech` [~user@24.68.147.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:21:56 why not? 21:22:11 and what solution do you propose? 21:22:22 just run make every time 21:22:38 it's the same problem. What is "every time" ? 21:22:48 when you compile-op, or when you load-op ? 21:22:54 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:22:57 whenever asdf decides it wants to run it 21:23:07 irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.45] has joined #lisp 21:23:08 -!- irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.45] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:23:08 and that's the issue 21:23:16 when .asd is modified 21:23:25 irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.45] has joined #lisp 21:23:48 as long as you don't tell asdf that it's done, it will keep doing it over and over again, but also triggering everything that depends on it. 21:24:02 nothing depends on it 21:24:10 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:11 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.35.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:24:19 then stop claiming anything does 21:24:19 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.1.148] has joined #lisp 21:24:29 who did claim so? 21:24:35 output-files 21:25:21 well, if .asd is not modified, then output-files will stop make from being calling 21:25:23 output-files is a promise "these files get created by this rule, and if they are older than any of the inputs or dependencies, you should trigger that rule again" 21:25:23 called 21:26:10 how do you distinguish between a file that needs be rebuilt and one that just happens to still have an old time stamp after being re-built? 21:26:23 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.151.25.154] has joined #lisp 21:26:42 make does any distinguishing it needs 21:26:48 oh, if asdf had a content-addressed store and intent-addressed cache of which computation produced what, then it wouldn't care about timestamps 21:26:55 no, make doesn't 21:27:06 well, whatever, it works 21:27:10 it's just that you told make about a different set of dependencies 21:27:24 so it sees that the file is newer than the dependencies you told make 21:27:30 huangjs_ [~huangjs@114.91.233.191] has joined #lisp 21:27:48 but you didn't tell asdf about those dependencies, and you didn't tell make about asdf's dependency. 21:27:52 well, the dependency on .asd is bogus, so make doesn't rebuild, but me not care 21:27:54 so of course, they disagree 21:27:58 it is NOT bogus 21:28:17 if you change the .asd file to call make differently, you'll be happy asdf recompiles the thing 21:28:23 DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@101.171.115.101] has joined #lisp 21:28:56 i'm not planning on changing it 21:29:21 you could tell there are no output-files, and voila. 21:29:33 if you don't want asdf to know about the make dependencies, then don't 21:29:36 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:29:36 -!- pokes [~pp@pokes.xxx] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:30:18 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:30:18 the problem is about doing things halfway 21:30:45 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.151.25.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:30:45 you can punt, you can go all the way, but doing a halfway declaration confuses asdf. 21:30:57 it's fine by me 21:31:59 *cross* is enjoying Fare's explanation. 21:32:10 Very lucid; thank you. 21:32:15 carado [~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0] has joined #lisp 21:32:59 -!- carado [~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0] has left #lisp 21:33:01 -!- DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@101.171.115.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:33:35 m104 [~m104@c-98-207-238-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:55 declaring no output-files will do exactly what you want: it's called once and only once per session 21:34:15 (well, actually, called again if any of its dependencies is modified) 21:35:42 the final modifications: https://github.com/stassats/commonqt/commit/90721a31b4730b09cee93afc5db06a7c151f4bf5 21:37:46 -!- yawnt is now known as yawnt`afk 21:38:30 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:38:46 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 21:41:20 well, you will lose because of that output-files method on cpp->so 21:41:22 can the val I bind to a symbol with defvar be a lambda? 21:41:30 sure 21:41:32 lose what? 21:41:49 i don't mind asdf being confused once in a while 21:41:53 it confuses me all the time 21:42:01 it will be confused *all* the time 21:42:09 if you stop confusing it, it won't be 21:42:45 just have the output-files method on the cpp->so return the empty list 21:42:49 given the function/symbol namespace seperation in clisp is there a way to bind a lambda with defun? 21:43:10 it's CL, not clisp 21:43:11 arrdem: no, but you can do (setf (fdefinition symbol-name) function) 21:43:16 arrdem: "clisp" is an implementation of common lisp. use "cl" if you need to abbreviate 21:43:37 clisp is conversational lisp, a long forgotten dialect of interlisp 21:44:30 arrdem: (lambda (lambda) lambda) -- that's a good quine. 21:45:01 I mean, not quine, but palindrome 21:45:38 Fare: what harm will there be from output-files being non nil? 21:45:41 needs more adbmal. 21:45:44 ok thanks 21:45:45 stassats, none 21:46:04 so, then i don't mind asdf thinking they are stale 21:46:12 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 21:46:26 (let((q'(lambda(q)(labels((r(x)(if(atom x)(intern(reverse(string x)))(reverse(mapcar #'r x))))(q(q)(subst q(eq q q)'(defun p(&aux defun nufed quote etouq(xua& etouq)p tsil)((lambda(q)(setq q 't tsil q nufed(eval(list q(list'quote q)))))etouq)))))(nconc(q q)(r(q q)))))))(eval`(,q',q))) 21:46:54 elegant 21:47:15 -!- impomatic [~digital_w@146.90.165.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:47:31 ^--- that's a palindromic quine generator. 21:47:43 #1=(write '#1# :circle t) 21:49:08 that's a nice quine, but not palindromic. 21:50:36 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.162.97] has joined #lisp 21:51:41 neither is the thing above. 21:52:24 Ah, yes, once I print the quotes. 21:54:26 francogrex [~user@109.134.228.67] has joined #lisp 21:54:50 Asgeir [~asgeir@sal63-1-82-243-96-129.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:02 if not for : #1=(write '#1#' :circle t :allow-other-keys :syek-rehto-wolla t :elcric '#1#' etirw=1#) 21:56:06 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:19 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:57 I've made a lot of progress since yesterday. I'm hosting the ECL source code on my C++ CL kernel and I just got CLOS to boot. 22:00:22 Now I'm loading the rest of the code associated with ECL-CLOS and it's complaining about this and that symbol not being defined. 22:00:23 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 22:00:24 what does it mean (sbcl) when (COERCE a-vector 'LIST) the compiler notes: unable to optimize because: open coding coercion to LIST not implemented. what is "open coding"? 22:00:27 is "to boot" a pun? 22:00:42 francogrex: inlining more or less 22:01:17 stassats: Not intentionally - It's bootstrapping CLOS. I'm too exhausted to pun :-). 22:02:13 so coercing a vector to list is a retarted action 22:02:18 if you want performance, you shouldn't be coercing to a list anyhow 22:02:21 I haven't been too careful to export symbols from my core/system package. Can I just write one big EXPORT expression and export every symbol that should appear in the Common-Lisp package? 22:02:47 that's what you should do 22:02:53 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has left #lisp 22:03:21 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Study-time! o/] 22:03:37 stassats: Excellent - thank you. 22:04:01 clhs 1.9 22:04:01 Symbols in the COMMON-LISP Package: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/01_i.htm 22:04:51 stassats: I wasn't aware that page existed. Thanks. 22:05:27 clhs 11.1.2.1 22:05:27 The COMMON-LISP Package: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/11_aba.htm 22:05:47 hello lisp people, I came across a strange behavior when loading the package cl-op with quicklisp. It changes the sharp-quote macro-character, but that's not indicated in the cl-op documentation. Here is the thing: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135664 22:05:55 -!- dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:06:20 kazoo [brandon@cpe-76-90-92-84.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:45 yes, that is so 22:08:36 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.1.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:08:48 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.228.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:50 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.23.44] has joined #lisp 22:10:31 -!- kazoo [brandon@cpe-76-90-92-84.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 22:13:27 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:15:54 -!- clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 22:16:21 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 22:18:41 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:40 tensorpuddin [~tensorpud@99.148.195.221] has joined #lisp 22:19:48 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.207.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:19:48 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 22:19:48 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-203.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:20:15 _tca [~user@h151.25.91.207.static.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:54 akovalen` [~user@95.73.216.27] has joined #lisp 22:22:03 impomatic [~digital_w@146.90.165.144] has joined #lisp 22:22:21 -!- m104 [~m104@c-98-207-238-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 22:23:16 -!- akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:24:46 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:55 bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-46-223-250-169.hsi.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 22:26:25 or maybe i shouldn't use asdf at all for doing .cpp compilation, just call make in a before/after perform method 22:27:11 *ebobby* dances 22:27:19 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 22:27:24 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 22:27:56 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.23.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:28:03 that would really simplify things and not depend on any ASDF magic 22:28:32 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.6.189] has joined #lisp 22:29:31 stassats, sorry, I thought you said "from being nil", not "from being non nil" 22:29:33 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:38 maligree [~maligree@fedora/maligree] has joined #lisp 22:29:46 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:29:47 stassats, if it's non-nil, asdf will always recompile qt and everything that depends on qt 22:29:56 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 22:30:25 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:30:50 hello, I'm trying to read a file of lisp code, find all new functions, classes etc and return the name, type and line of each symbol. When using read-from-string I get a nice list of code and i can easily find new symbols but i lose information about the line on which a symbol appears. How can i fix this (preferrably withous a second pass)? 22:31:08 it recompiles things which depend on qt, but not qt itself 22:31:15 Would a read macro, that injects the line number (like so: http://cxg.de/_956b39.htm) be a good idea or a huge kludge? 22:31:26 not qt itself if you moved the thing out of the :serial t 22:32:02 so, then the touch approach is more preferable 22:32:31 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:33:06 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:35:18 that would be my recommendation, too 22:35:56 it allows asdf to not call make if the files are up to date, unlike the null output-files which causes it to always call make. 22:36:43 bad_alloc: the 'code' does not make new functions, classes etc. Executing the code does. What do you mean by 'line number' exactly? before READing, before macroexpansion? Before compilation? 22:36:53 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.107.166] has joined #lisp 22:37:03 always, I mean, once per session 22:37:34 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.55] has joined #lisp 22:38:58 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:90be:2062:9fe4:5cbd] has joined #lisp 22:39:04 drewc: well, I'd like to display the file as a webpage and have each appearance of foo be a link to the original (defun foo ... ). Kindof like LXR. E.g.: In C++ you can say "Error in Definition of main on line 4". That is what i mean by line. 22:39:51 that does work 22:42:40 -!- huangjs_ [~huangjs@114.91.233.191] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:42:44 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.6.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:43:32 don't forget to use && touch, not ; touch 22:43:50 or you'll have bad surprises should the make fail 22:43:51 i didn't 22:44:24 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.35.49] has joined #lisp 22:44:25 bad_alloc: ok, so nothing to do with Common Lisp itself, you just want to read SEXPs and know what 'line' the SEXP was READ on? 22:45:22 drewc: yes. I just thought read might be helpful in finding the symbols more easily. 22:49:44 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 22:50:49 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:52:31 bad_alloc: you must be new to Common Lisp itself, yeah? OR: (macrolet ((d () `(progn ,@(loop for n upto 10000 :collect `(defun ,(intern (concatenate 'string "foo-" (princ-to-string n)))(),n))))) (d)) <--- what line is the #'|foo-9899| defined on? and #'|foo-2| ? 22:52:34 -!- irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:29 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.162.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:56:37 drewc: Yes I am. So you're saying, that there are nontrivial symbol "definitions" I can't possibly catch? Let's say I 22:56:48 drewc: using scheme-like syntax-case, very clearly, the source line of that macrolet 22:57:11 ...press enter too soon. So I have to stick to scanning for defun/defclass etc and find the trivial ones? 22:57:45 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:10 bad_alloc, what's the goal, in the end? 22:58:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.107.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:54 bad_alloc: or, use what the implementation has built in to do things 'correctly'? http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Source-Location-Printing 22:59:16 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:00:24 Fare: As I said, something like LXR (example page: http://lxr.linux.no/#linux+v3.8/kernel/auditfilter.c) 23:01:01 drewc: That's another problem, I never know what to look for. Thanks for that pointer :) 23:01:44 I don't get it. 23:02:05 -!- drewc [~drewc@50.7.166.100] has left #lisp 23:02:08 you want the identifiers to be clickable, with a click leading back to the binding form / definition? 23:02:10 drewc [~drewc@50.7.166.100] has joined #lisp 23:02:23 xref 23:02:33 unhappily for you, you have common lisp, not racket. 23:03:11 do you have to be portable, or is it OK to be restricted to SBCL or CCL? 23:03:21 Well the goal is to learn lisp via such a project. I'm not really trying to be productive. 23:03:22 portable to SBCL! 23:03:27 I do not get it ... counting the linebreaks is easy 23:03:42 CCL keeps a lot of source code information around during compilation, for instance. 23:03:53 hell, SPLIT-SEQUENCE to have a string become a list of lines 23:04:17 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 23:04:41 (declaim (optimize (debug 3))) <--- in my startup files 23:04:44 drewc: split-sequence? I'll just show myself out and find a reference :( 23:04:56 yes, there are xref tools. But they won't deal very well with shadowing from lexical variables/functions. 23:05:28 bad_alloc: (ql:quickload :split-sequence) 23:05:34 to do a 100% job, you'll need a code-walker that's tantamount to a reimplementation of most of the lisp compiler frontend. 23:05:37 http://www.quicklisp.org/ 23:06:29 drewc: how do you handle CRLF with split-sequence? ;-> 23:06:38 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:07:03 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:03 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:07:03 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 23:07:13 "tantamount to a reimplementation"  that's why I asked about reusing read etc. (to explain the confusion) 23:07:13 bad_alloc: you good do a 60% job using SLIME and its primitives 23:07:16 Fare: heh ... i (REMOVE ...) the extra char at the end of lines! :P 23:07:53 or use an implementation which supports wide range of external formats 23:08:03 ldionmarcil [~user@dsl-216-221-52-122.mtl.contact.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:03 -!- ldionmarcil [~user@dsl-216-221-52-122.mtl.contact.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:08:03 ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 23:08:20 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:44 bad_alloc: If you want to learn lisp, i suggest not taking stuff that makes sense for C and trying to use Lisp to create it ... there is a lot to learn, and learning something 'wrong' is not a good idea imo. 23:08:53 bad_alloc: using read, it's easy enough to associate line-number information to CONS cells being read, but not to symbols.. 23:09:12 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-232-083.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:09:24 AeroNotix [~xeno@abop77.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:09:35 drewc: that makes sense when you know what "wrong" is ;) 23:09:40 so you might have to implement your own "READ-SYNTAX", that doesn't read symbols, but "symbols-annotated-with-context-information" 23:09:55 at which point you're well on your way to implement syntax-case. 23:10:01 bad_alloc: no, heads or tails, it is all different sides of the same coin 23:10:18 and your project is a contribution to the CL community 23:11:03 and you can write a 100% solution to xref that is aware of lexical scoping. 23:11:45 or you can load code in and ask at runtime. 23:12:26 www.p-cos.net/documents/hygiene.pdf 23:12:35 problem being, because macroexpansion can be arbitrary code, you'll have to write your own CL emulation layer that uses your syntax objects, but does other stuff with it -- including trapping anything that depends on the EQ-ness of symbols if you want to feed it your decidedly non-EQ annotated-symbols. 23:12:39 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:12:58 drewc, p-cos does not handle line-number information. 23:13:50 it would be easier to hook up things into an implementation 23:14:01 Fare: no, but I thought we were talking about 'learning' here! :P If we are through speaking with bad_alloc, I will show myself the door :D 23:14:16 pkhuong, if you want to distinguish between the "A" read on line 1 and the "A" read on line 2, you can't let the implementation drop the information. 23:14:36 pkhuong: I don't know if running code for cross referencing is a good idea. Fare: Well, that might be a topic for the far future. 23:14:37 there's all kind of "learning". 23:14:43 bad_alloc, what is your background? 23:15:19 so yes, for a 60% solution, use swank to query the implementation. Should get at least all the global identifiers right. 23:15:21 About 5 years of C++ (which might explain what drewc said about "this is not C") and java, python, C# 23:15:29 EVAL, COMPILE, or READ with *READ-EVAL* = T ... no files at all ! "macros" or not there is no lines. 23:15:30 not bad. 23:15:59 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.31.124] has joined #lisp 23:16:32 You realize that unlike, say, Racket, CL is not designed for learning, or designed at all. It was a compromise out of many organically grown descendents of a same language 23:16:42 k0001 [~k0001@host142.186-109-176.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:17:01 *drewc* did C programming 5 years ago! Fare was there! 23:17:07 drewc: many implementations remember line information for toplevel forms. 23:17:24 drewc: I saw you program C? What program was it? 23:17:30 Fare: Yeah, but it still is interesting and I'm kindof hooked in this way http://xkcd.com/297/ 23:17:46 "It too, shall pass" 23:18:13 bad_alloc: hey, I'm using CL, so I don't mean that CL is "bad". It's just not everything to everyone. 23:18:14 Fare: CL->socket->C->Oracle ... I added UTF8 to the C thing, as well as fixed a bunch of errors. 23:18:25 ouch. I can feel the pain. 23:18:33 pipe-quake-server. Ouch. 23:19:00 ahh quake ... forgot about the name 'til now :) 23:19:10 conclusion: The question was somehow wrong because I don't understeand lisp and do not know much beyond defun. Thanks for the input on that :) 23:19:32 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:20:12 and the worst part is, we ended up not using the UTF8 at all for it did not 'work' right with the EBIDIC that everything else _was_ (and is) using. 23:20:34 EBCIDC 23:20:42 the IBM encoding? 23:20:44 heh 23:20:56 I can never seem to spell that at all 23:21:06 EBCDIC 23:21:19 -!- stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:21:22 bad_alloc: I don't see how you can expand macros without executing them. 23:22:31 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.246.29.17] has joined #lisp 23:22:52 -!- Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-249-45.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Things never change, only rearrange.] 23:22:56 bad_alloc: yes, IBM 23:23:12 Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-249-45.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:30 pkhuong: In retrospect that's true, but I'll just happily ignore that :) 23:23:59 clhs macroexpand 23:24:00 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mexp_.htm 23:24:04 :D 23:24:20 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:24:30 you can execute them in a controlled environment 23:25:28 *drewc* has his CL-INTERPRETER->Kernel Interpreter->SBCL thing... that is quite controlled! 23:25:44 and slow ... very very very very slow 23:28:08 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abop77.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 23:28:14 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:28:37 bad_alloc: I am just implementing Common Lisp in C++ and I implement CONS as a C++ class and implemented a subclass called SOURCE-CODE-CONS that keeps track of what line and column a CONS starts on when I read it from source code. 23:29:27 Kernel? As in FEXPR ? 23:29:35 bad_alloc: I didn't even try to keep track of where atomic objects (SYMBOLS, FIXNUMs etc) come from - that didn't seem like a good idea. 23:30:44 drewc, we ended up using some weird shit UTF-16 encoded over UTF-8 thing, CESU-8, which oracle deceitfully called "utf-8" 23:31:24 and yes, I remember the EBCDIC horror 23:31:38 When I expand macros I search the form for SOURCE-CODE-CONSes within it and mine them for source code information - the goal is to create more readable backtraces and enable faster debugging. 23:32:33 Fare: yup, FEXPRs with my favorite symbol prefix, #\$ :) 23:33:52 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.246.29.17] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 23:34:11 drmeister: so you just look at it as one long unbroken string of s-expressions? 23:34:14 what is vau ? are you using unicode for that? 23:34:27 you don't need vau for kernel... 23:34:31 Fare: heh ... that is what I 'said' was going to be a problem/solution ... but i was 'told' to 'follow the instructions' ... so I did. 23:35:06 welcome to dysfunctional management... happily the dysfunctional managers are now mostly all gone. 23:35:29 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-89.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:36:48 -!- agumonkey [~agu@32.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:37:41 bad_alloc: Hmm, I'm not sure if I'd put it that way. When I LOAD a source file, each form that is read is a SOURCE-CODE-CONS containing within it other SOURCE-CODE-CONS and every one of them knows which source file they were read from and what line and column they started on. 23:38:09 Each SOURCE-CODE-CONS stores one S-expression. 23:38:19 They are just annotated with source code information. 23:38:35 -!- worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:38:49 I'm told that CLISP has a similar feature that you can turn on with a compiler switch. Mine are always on and only generated by LOAD. 23:40:15 Once you feed a SOURCE-CODE-CONS into a macro expansion you get back a CONS that may or may not contain SOURCE-CODE-CONSes within them. That's the tricky part. This is where the backtrace needs to walk the CONS to find SOURCE-CODE-CONSes to generate source code information for a backtrace or debugging. 23:41:03 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:42:06 With enough macro expansion (and - holy crap - Common Lisp does a lot of macro expansion) the resulting CONS will only contain a few traces of the original SOURCE-CODE-CONS. 23:42:09 Thra11 [~thrall@45.77.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:49 I think creating source code annotated SYMBOLs and FIXNUMs would be madness. 23:43:55 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.31.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:44:14 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.31.124] has joined #lisp 23:45:02 "$VAU" or "$vau" or "$VaU" :) 23:46:26 Folks, I have a question: am I doing something wrong or does reading the following text require the package :MP exist before the read occurs: "#+threads (defparameter *method-combinations-lock* (mp:make-lock :name 'find-method-combination))" 23:46:50 it does not 23:46:54 unless threads is true 23:47:13 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:47:19 k0001_ [~k0001@200.117.221.1] has joined #lisp 23:47:23 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 23:50:20 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:44 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host142.186-109-176.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:52:56 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 23:54:38 stassats: Then I'm doing something wrong because my reader throws an exception that the "MP" package doesn't exist. How does a reader normally ignore the form that follows #+XXXX if XXXX doesn't exist as a feature? I'm reading it and then throwing away the result. Clearly that's wrong. Do I count parentheses? 23:55:49 I just tested it with SBCL and sure enough it ignores the package when the feature is unavailable. 23:56:17 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.173.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:57:02 I'll dig into the SBCL source code. 23:58:36 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:47 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 23:59:24 it binds *read-suppress* to t, then does read 23:59:36 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp