00:01:27 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-84-73-140.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:31 -!- TDT [~user@173-17-121-48.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:03:08 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has left #lisp 00:04:10 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:01 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:05:44 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 00:06:05 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:42 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:06:54 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 00:08:01 -!- sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:10:24 -!- pve [~user@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:11:02 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177916872.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 00:11:07 pve [~user@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 00:12:13 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 00:12:31 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:54 -!- luqui [~luqui@71-218-28-123.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 00:15:14 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 00:16:36 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: sudden death] 00:17:25 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 00:17:56 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75473b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:21:11 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 00:21:43 -!- zorkmoid [c2ed8e0a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:22:19 clhs values-list 00:22:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_vals_l.htm 00:22:36 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177916872.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:24:05 agumonkey [~agu@61.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:35 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:25:43 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:26:24 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 00:26:41 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.252.96] has joined #lisp 00:28:21 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@c-71-56-205-11.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:29:04 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 00:30:17 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:32:21 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-131-254.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:31 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 00:32:47 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:33:12 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abof254.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 00:36:05 oooh, the lisp 1 programmer's manual is on the computer history museum, i've only read the 1.5 programmer's manual 00:36:59 jaoswald [48e39970@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.227.153.112] has joined #lisp 00:37:53 madnificent: there was one as well at the vintage computer festival in chicago 00:38:04 someone took a picture of it with my lisp machine 00:38:46 cool 00:39:16 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Quit: ] 00:40:09 the lisp 1 manual, imagine the possibilities! 00:40:49 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 00:43:55 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:43:59 1.5? 00:44:32 3/2 00:44:58 :) 00:45:45 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:47:34 nope, 3/3 00:47:48 yow 00:50:18 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 00:51:43 -!- jaoswald [48e39970@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.227.153.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:55:13 RazWelles [~Raz@c-65-34-239-133.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:17 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:55:51 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 00:57:42 -!- RazWelles_ [~Raz@c-65-34-239-133.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:05:30 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 01:05:57 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:48 i am just baffled by how well thought out parts of the standard are 01:09:45 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:09:52 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has joined #lisp 01:13:13 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:15:53 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:16:10 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:39 bigboy [~bom@198.187.30.190] has joined #lisp 01:16:47 -!- bigboy [~bom@198.187.30.190] has left #lisp 01:18:34 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has joined #lisp 01:19:46 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:20:12 -!- meiji11 [~user@d50-99-51-156.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:14 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:21:18 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@www31335u.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:22:47 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-84-73-140.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 01:24:04 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 01:26:18 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Quit: ] 01:26:41 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:27:26 like 2.4.4.2 01:27:46 clhs 2.4.4.2 01:27:46 Notes about Style for Semicolon: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_ddb.htm 01:27:50 oh. 01:28:53 yes that is a good part, though I deviate form it in a couple places: i usually use a large banner to section off code 01:29:09 ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; CODE ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; 01:30:09 so, i remember fare complaining about :perform in defsystem before, but that's how i see test-op hooked up in bordeaux-threads. is there a better way? 01:31:40 ynniv [~ynniv@z69-94-206-168.ips.direcpath.com] has joined #lisp 01:32:21 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@z69-94-206-168.ips.direcpath.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:32:36 ynniv [~ynniv@z69-94-206-168.ips.direcpath.com] has joined #lisp 01:33:45 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 01:34:17 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 01:36:04 is order in which slots appear in classes, defined? 01:40:29 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 01:44:01 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:12 sellout-1 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:30 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:55:40 rtoyg [~rtoyg@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 02:01:29 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:59 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 02:04:45 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-180-232.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:07:35 pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has joined #lisp 02:12:30 brandonz [~brandon@c-24-6-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:48 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 02:13:14 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 02:14:45 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:57 -!- pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:23:54 -!- arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:24:03 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@www31335u.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 02:24:29 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@www31335u.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:24:36 -!- agumonkey [~agu@61.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:25:16 zacharias_ [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 02:26:35 pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has joined #lisp 02:26:59 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:29:28 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.248] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:30:05 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-24-6-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:30:29 -!- rtoyg [~rtoyg@24.130.4.105] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 18.0.2/20130201065344]] 02:32:51 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 02:32:56 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:33:52 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-131-254.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:35:29 -!- pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:36:33 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:36:46 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-203-58.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 02:38:55 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:40:38 pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has joined #lisp 02:42:36 -!- pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has quit [Client Quit] 02:46:24 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:46:26 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:03 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 02:52:28 Xach, alive? 02:53:58 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 02:58:51 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:00:19 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 03:01:55 jingtao [~jingtaozf@220.191.186.26] has joined #lisp 03:03:40 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-171-15-248.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:04:07 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 03:05:39 brandonz [~brandon@c-24-6-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:35 hi guys,I have one question about string-lessp,it has different behaviour in sbcl and lispworks. 03:06:42 howso? 03:07:37 for example,the lisp form (string-lessp "_input" "body") returns 0 in sbcl and return nil in lispworks. 03:08:18 It seems the lispworks use the uppercase of first chacrater and sbcl use the original one. 03:08:45 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:24 would this have potential problem to sbcl? 03:11:04 jingtao: (char-lessp #\_ #\b) => T on SBCL, so the result for string-lessp is correct. LW may use a different character ordering 03:11:29 -!- stopbit [~stopbit@c-69-140-100-176.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:11:59 I'll raise this question in the sbcl channel too. 03:12:14 jingtao: you'll receive the same answer. 03:14:42 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16:36 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-203-58.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16:49 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-171-15-248.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 03:19:40 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.160] has joined #lisp 03:30:20 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.140.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:30:36 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.160] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:34:51 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host133.186-125-111.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:36:31 Vicfred [~Futaba@189.232.41.130] has joined #lisp 03:36:40 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.160] has 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[~user@114-198-33-227.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:10:43 pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has joined #lisp 04:14:12 !seen 04:15:22 !seen WarWeasle, anyone? 04:15:24 p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.116.195] has joined #lisp 04:15:51 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:16:17 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.145] has joined #lisp 04:16:24 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:50 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:17:12 Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:18:06 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@220.191.186.26] has left #lisp 04:18:51 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:23:17 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:24:17 Yes, I have !seen WarWeasle. 04:24:43 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.33.178] has quit [Quit: ...] 04:25:19 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:28:58 hm 04:30:07 thats a very logical answer 04:32:04 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-161-158.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 04:32:58 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:35:48 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:35:57 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-24-6-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:37:51 Tanami_ [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 04:40:19 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.116.195] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:41:08 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:49:46 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-250-231.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:50:07 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-250-231.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:29 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 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[~attila_le@92.46.28.188] has quit [Changing host] 09:07:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:08:02 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:11:21 mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-swin14-2-0-cust274.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:13:12 youtopia [~AllInOne@168.Red-95-126-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:13 good morning lispers 09:14:47 how is your monday? 09:15:32 full of code that would make more sense in lisp or prolog 09:16:10 p_l: and in what are you doing it? 09:16:27 java. Legacy, sort of, system 09:16:46 i'm sorry about you, p_l 09:18:44 <_d3f> good morning youtopia, my monday is fine, I am off from work today, and how's yours? 09:19:55 I'm starting my job right now, but I've decided not to do much this morning 09:20:40 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:21:21 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:21:59 <_d3f> good luck with that. 09:23:32 asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has joined #lisp 09:26:24 is there any lisp implementation for android? 09:28:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:28:13 there is this: http://wukix.com/mocl 09:28:18 but seems to be very opaque 09:28:46 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 09:29:00 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:32:06 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:32:34 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:33:19 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:34:54 youtopia: mocl so far is vaporware 09:37:50 and propietary software for sure if it ever gets released 09:39:18 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ashwdiwpdousvwnt] has joined #lisp 09:39:18 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ashwdiwpdousvwnt] has quit [Changing host] 09:39:19 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:40:30 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 09:41:30 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-swin14-2-0-cust274.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:50:00 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:51:19 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 09:51:35 -!- ehu [~ehu@31.136.5.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:51:38 a001673 [~chatzilla@d31128.smhi.se] has joined #lisp 09:51:45 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 09:56:11 -!- robot-be` is now known as robot-beethoven 09:58:18 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:59:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:00:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:00:53 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:02:06 somewhere above, there was mentioned the methodology of "one package per file". i'm curious how people would elaborate on the concept. 10:05:30 browndawg [~browndawg@117.208.66.181] has joined #lisp 10:09:19 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 10:11:08 -!- agumonkey [~agu@61.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:11:20 (my curiosity derives from my pending decision on how to modularize a file.lisp that's grown to a thousand lines) 10:11:38 agumonkey [~agu@32.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:17 robot-beethoven: i am using that methodology. if i feel that i need to split up a file, i'm splitting it into two packages. 10:14:49 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-226-207.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:14:55 -!- astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-235-122.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:15:18 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 10:20:10 does splitting packages across files tend towards hard-to-work-with? (i don't have much experience with CL packages yet) 10:20:36 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:17 robot-beethoven: not at all. i found the contrary to be true. due to the larger number of packages, it is easier to find functionality (i.e. the package structure imposes some form of modularity) 10:22:15 youtopia: some have used ecl on it 10:22:47 robot-beethoven: that is, if i'm looking for some symbol, i type the package name and M- to see what's available 10:22:55 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:25:13 -!- Vicfred [~Futaba@189.232.41.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:25:15 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:25:17 categorizing by prefix can also be useful as in any programming language, i.e. net-foo net-bar, if it's considered that those should still remain in the package 10:26:19 -!- toekutr 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-!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:45:47 any asdf experts? is it possible to tell somehow in a defsystem to first load a file, and then load-op a system? something like :in-order-to ((prepare-op ...))? 12:45:48 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.93.1] 12:46:17 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:54:57 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:55:29 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:56:11 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:59:42 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.63.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:59:55 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 13:00:21 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:08:31 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.160] has joined #lisp 13:12:56 Fare 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[~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:12:08 -!- Saturn_ [~rose@111.58.55.191] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:13:44 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:30 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:09 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:16:25 abc22134 [abc@85.65.115.112.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:33 -!- abc22134 [abc@85.65.115.112.dynamic.barak-online.net] has left #lisp 17:21:19 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003f70.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:50 oGMo: you need to run autogen and checkin the outputs for c2ffi 17:22:21 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:24:47 jasom: hrm .. lots of crap generated by autotools ;/ maybe a release tarball? 17:25:02 oGMo: or don't use autotools 17:25:20 autotools sucks but there's not a great alternative afaik 17:26:18 *jasom* uses bare makefiles; autotools just slows-down the build process and it will still probably break on systems you haven't tested 17:27:04 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@133.Red-81-34-239.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:27 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 17:27:41 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:28:49 -!- myx [~myx@188.168.246.50] has quit [Quit: ] 17:29:35 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:29:49 oGMo: alternatively you can change your readme to tell you to run autogen first 17:29:49 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:30:30 if it works .. it used to be that not everyone had autotools installed, or the latest versions 17:32:02 dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 17:32:43 luqui [~luqui@75-166-106-212.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:17 SSG [~siddayyag@122.172.29.243] has joined #lisp 17:35:44 I can guarantee you I never have an up to date autotools installation, if I have one at all. 17:36:58 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:08 sure .. but for simply building and using, you don't need to 17:37:41 I think it's a lot less important in these days of ubiquitous internet and package managers 17:37:57 abeaumont [~abeaumont@133.Red-81-34-239.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:10 I still like to use autotools so I don't have to search for libraries and compilers myself, though 17:38:34 clearly people should just package the compiler with their software 17:39:40 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 17:40:21 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-200-30-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:41:17 dlowe: the real issue is it's nontrivial to write a non-fragile Makefile and make it easy for users to alter build settings, install dir, compiler-specific things, etc, without essentially reinventing autotools poorly 17:41:59 *dlowe* nods. 17:42:07 that's just one of the problems of C in general 17:42:21 youtopia, how is that a problem with C? 17:42:27 did github discontinue the ability to upload files for distribution, or am I just missing the link again? 17:42:43 right. In lisp world we get trivial-* libraries 17:43:11 is there anything better than CL-YACC for generating ASTs from tokens? 17:43:28 Qworkescence: virtual machine instances 17:43:43 arrdem, a few weeks ago I tried a lot of alternatives for YACC-like parsers and that seems to be the only sufficient one 17:43:53 parser generators, rather 17:44:04 Qworkescence: okay thanks for the info. 17:44:06 Qworkescence: look at pascal, actually much of the information required to compile are in the library themselves, you can make a project without a makefile, but in C this is difficult or imposible for big projects 17:44:50 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:56 -!- luqui [~luqui@75-166-106-212.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44:58 youtopia, are you sure this is an issue with the C language or just existing implementations of C compilers? Are there really any show stoppers from writing a compiler that is smart about finding what to link & load? 17:45:32 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:36 I realize that might be a pedantic thing to ask. 17:45:54 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-gawxytljctdwlyim] has joined #lisp 17:46:21 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 17:46:25 try ##c, kthx 17:47:33 jasom: well i updated the readme, and i have a tarball, but apparently github discontinued downloadable tarballs, so i'm looking for another way to distribute :P 17:47:56 that's ... surprising 17:48:18 oGMo: maybe by means of git ? 17:49:13 dioxirane: possible but not the best solution imho 17:49:39 oGMo: why not svn? 17:50:26 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:52:02 Qworkescence: actually the C99 specification doesn't say anything about being "smart" about libreary and header locations, and you cannot pass any flag to the compiler in the source in a standard way as Pascal does. 17:52:27 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:58:21 dioxriane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 17:59:08 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 18:00:48 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:01:09 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:01:24 -!- dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:04:02 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 18:08:00 ebw [~user@f051072226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:09:07 -!- gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:09:49 -!- SSG [~siddayyag@122.172.29.243] has quit [Quit: SSG] 18:09:58 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.28.188] has joined #lisp 18:09:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:10:55 cic_ [~connolly@Catnip.AI.SRI.COM] has joined #lisp 18:14:08 green_ [green@nat/redhat/x-ahwuyemygauapjln] has 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[~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:23 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has joined #lisp 19:13:46 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:14:12 if I (let) some symbol S, how can I pass that symbol to a function inside the let such that the function can side-effect S via setf? 19:14:24 or do I have to just use a closure. 19:14:58 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:15:37 you do not "let" symbols 19:15:55 let binds variables, and you can't pass bindings around 19:16:25 but you can closures, right 19:16:32 also, special variables 19:17:12 in the nested closure case the used binding is the last (most deeply nested) let of that symbol, correct? 19:17:19 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:17:44 symbols are not in play here, variables are 19:17:51 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 19:17:55 and yes, the closest variable is closed over 19:18:03 ok thanks. 19:18:18 what are you trying to accomplish? 19:18:33 a stupid question: is c.l.l full of trols? 19:18:39 I have that impression 19:18:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-45.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:19:07 stassats: I'm trying to implement a rewindable parser combinator using stack recursion. 19:19:49 so, you shouldn't be modifying variables, should you? 19:20:10 yes I shouldn't. 19:20:32 youtopie Sadly a lot of posts are from trolls in my experience. 19:20:41 I'm flailing right now.. been clojuring for several months, clisp and guile before that racket in the last few days. 19:20:57 common lisp is not abbreviated as clisp 19:21:00 but as CL 19:21:01 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 19:21:01 trying to get my state management in order so that I can get down to consuming tokens in a reversable manner. 19:22:26 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:23:43 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.208.66.181] has left #lisp 19:23:51 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:25:14 akovalen` [~user@195.18.46.21] has joined #lisp 19:28:55 -!- akovalenko [~user@77.51.6.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:29:17 Expez [~Expez@expez.com] has joined #lisp 19:29:49 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:55 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 19:31:38 arrdem: if you never set variables, then unwinding should happen automatically on function-returns, right? 19:32:37 arrdem: and if you're coming from clojure and scheme, then I would expect that to be what you are doing, since those both tend to eschew mutation more than common lisp 19:32:55 jasom: that's exactly what I'm working towards. 19:33:25 arrdem: don't ever call setf/setq and you should be fine 19:33:50 arrdem: okay that's not true, some sequence operators are in-plce 19:33:53 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:07 sort, nreverse, nconc 19:35:43 sort often trips me up since it doesn't start with an "n" like most of the other in-place functions. 19:35:56 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35:58 luqui [~luqui@23.31.73.66] has joined #lisp 19:36:27 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-046-005-062-174.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:40:49 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko 19:41:14 the thing I'm struggling with is I feel like I need to be returning pairs (tokens-consumed . result)... 19:42:42 why not multiple values? 19:42:50 -!- youtopia [~AllInOne@168.Red-95-126-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 19:43:35 heh really because it goes against years of C, Python and Java with one return value. 19:45:41 multiple return values are awesome 19:46:08 does CL have list destructuring semantics at all? 19:46:34 arrdem: see destructuring-bind 19:46:54 cheers H4ns 19:51:44 also see the loop destructuring features 19:52:05 (loop) is awesome. figured that out already. 19:53:19 arrdem: look at iterate, too. 19:55:34 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:55:44 untitaker [~untitaker@188-22-42-104.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:55:55 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:55:57 ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.79] has joined #lisp 19:56:02 youtopia [~AllInOne@71.Red-2-142-98.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:15 or consider a real class/structure... or even a :typed structure. 19:56:16 for token-result pairs you could consider alists, plists or hash tables, multiple values, depending on performance requirements and usage you'll need 19:56:38 true, or a struct or class 19:57:13 if I don't mind ( x . y ) I could just have n being (car retval) and v being (cdr retval) but then it's not a real list... 19:57:25 think I'm gonna stick with two cell lists 19:57:26 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:39 ( x . ( y ) ) 19:57:46 I am currently shortly before buying a book to learn Common Lisp. I have written a lot of Python code so far, and a little of Javascript. I don't have any practical use for Lisp, but everybody tells me it would just make me a better programmer, so i thought i would give it a shot. 19:57:59 TL; DR: Any good books for a Python dev? 19:58:05 minion: please tell untitaker about PCL 19:58:06 untitaker: please look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 19:58:16 you don't even have to buy it 19:58:21 SICP / Lisp In Small Pieces? 19:58:22 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:58:27 you also should look at the hyperspec for reference 19:58:35 i guess since the bot already has it, it's a standard answer :P 19:58:42 i'm gonna look into that 19:59:57 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:15 untitaker: if you don't have a formal CS education, you might look into SICP as well. 20:00:55 but do the exercises! 20:01:27 Qworkescence: yeah, if you don't do the exercises, you might as well be reading a novel 20:01:29 SICP from Abelson? 20:01:38 the one and only 20:01:43 A Gentle Introduction To Symbolic Computation is also nice if you need something that really explains the cons and lists in detail from the beginning with graphics 20:01:44 untitaker: yeah 20:02:27 the summary sounds like a very formal introduction to programming patterns 20:02:51 it's not really formal 20:03:43 sicp or a gentle intro? 20:03:59 -!- findiggle1 [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:04:01 sicp 20:04:04 sicp isn't truly formal but it's definitely up there for an introductory book 20:04:32 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:40 are the 30 bucks worth it? Or should i be able to read it online? 20:04:51 yes it is worth it 20:04:53 (my reading comprehension lacks when reading on a screen) 20:04:57 *arrdem* loves dead tree books 20:05:01 alright 20:05:02 but get the latest edition 20:05:04 me too! 20:05:04 untitaker: I bought the kindle version and the physical version. 20:05:19 i don't have a kindle 20:05:51 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:05:55 I was just trying to convey that it is indeed worth it. 20:06:03 oh nvm then 20:08:26 hm, it's actually 60 with the shipping, using dealers that actually ship here. still? 20:08:48 (think of =$) 20:09:15 i think it is a very good book to have 20:09:31 i have bought maybe 5 copies in my lifetime 20:09:51 what 20:09:56 why would you do that? 20:10:00 some were gifts 20:10:02 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10:04 some were updated editions 20:10:04 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10:05 oh okay 20:10:16 untitaker: you can probably start with the first few chapters to try it out 20:10:23 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:27 untitaker: do the excercises; that will test your comprehension 20:11:22 jasom: of the practical common lisp book, or the SICP? 20:11:40 i am definetly going to read the first few ones of PCL, but i am unsure about SICP 20:12:11 -!- Expez [~Expez@expez.com] has quit [Quit: Expez] 20:12:31 i'd find it easier to read on screen, since you're going to be playing with the REPL anyhow 20:13:49 Expez [~Expez@expez.com] has joined #lisp 20:13:58 yeah, i am currently rather worrying about SICP 20:14:04 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-1-39.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:17 well, it has lots of exercises 20:14:17 untitaker: SICP 20:14:49 oh, sicp has exercises too? 20:14:50 untitaker: or just to PCL, nothing wrong with that 20:15:22 untitaker, SICP has exercises, some of them are very tough, and they are required 20:15:28 nice 20:15:30 untitaker: PCL doesn't have exercises 20:15:45 but it has code 20:15:48 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1223-250.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:15:50 -!- zbigniew [~zb@2600:3c02:e000:3::8] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:15:52 wait what? 20:16:18 ah alright, if you think of it like that 20:17:11 PCL goes through a process of writing code 20:17:22 real code 20:17:30 SICP does too? 20:18:08 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:18:21 computing square roots is not really "real code" 20:18:53 Why not? What's the distinction? 20:18:54 stassats: depends for who. 20:18:56 both are great books but in my opinion, i found it easier to read PCL first and then come back to SICP mostly because of the amount of math involved in SICP 20:19:22 The "amount of math" in SICP is relatively contained in chapter 1. 20:19:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:19:40 ah, whatever, i'm not going to argue semantics 20:20:17 Qworkescence: I had not gone past chapter one before but this time i am halfway in chapter two! 20:20:31 it's like my third attempt to get through SICP 20:20:41 great 20:20:43 keep at it 20:20:46 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:20:50 chapter 4 and 5 are the most interesting 20:20:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-45.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:21:47 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.205.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:51 they are both legally available for free, right? 20:21:59 yes 20:22:38 Alright, just wanted to know since i am currently pulling PDFs of both on my phone to read. 20:23:10 you shouldn't read them, you need to work through them 20:23:45 stassats: it kind of works if i read through the exercises before and then write them at home 20:23:55 Like jasom (i think) said, they aren't novels, they are workbooks 20:23:56 works for me everytime 20:24:08 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 20:24:14 i know, i did that with most books i read 20:24:25 (technical educational books) 20:24:37 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:02 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has joined #lisp 20:27:27 alright, thanks for the help 20:27:28 bye 20:27:40 -!- untitaker [~untitaker@188-22-42-104.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 20:28:23 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:30:35 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 20:35:38 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: KEEP SPARKS. FLAME AWAY.] 20:38:38 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 20:39:04 -!- youtopia [~AllInOne@71.Red-2-142-98.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:36 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:43 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:54 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:37 insomniaSalt [~milan@lvps5-35-242-57.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has joined #lisp 20:44:02 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@lvps5-35-242-57.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has quit [Changing host] 20:44:02 insomniaSalt [~milan@fsf/member/insomniasalt] has joined #lisp 20:47:32 snearch [~snearch@82.113.98.41] has joined #lisp 20:48:19 -!- snearch [~snearch@82.113.98.41] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:49:23 snearch [~snearch@82.113.98.41] has joined #lisp 20:49:50 Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.205.229] has joined #lisp 20:54:03 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c23db.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:34 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-211-252-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 20:56:37 youtopia [~AllInOne@19.Red-2-140-210.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:50 -!- Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-211-252-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 20:58:05 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-200-30-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:58:32 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 20:59:40 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 21:00:31 -!- _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:43 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:18 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:04:36 -!- CrazyEddy [~transhape@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:07:17 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 21:08:05 wackonline [da68c8b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.104.200.182] has joined #lisp 21:08:53 -!- ebw [~user@f051072226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:03 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:23 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:26 -!- wackonline [da68c8b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.104.200.182] has left #lisp 21:12:49 -!- `fogus is now known as fogus|gone 21:13:17 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:15:24 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 21:15:39 -!- n0vember [~n0vember@liberacescursedpiano.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:17:06 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-176-79.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:44 gracelike [~labile@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 21:17:59 LiamH [~none@ip-64-134-241-151.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:10 -!- gracelike is now known as CrazyEddy 21:18:48 n0vember [~n0vember@liberacescursedpiano.org] has joined #lisp 21:21:04 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 21:21:31 thunder [~grmoilicx@109-92-15-30.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 21:21:39 -!- thunder is now known as Guest59214 21:22:24 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.240.223.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:22:52 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.240.223.36] has joined #lisp 21:23:01 -!- Guest59214 [~grmoilicx@109-92-15-30.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:23:45 hmm weblocks uses "read" to parse floats, #.(progn (print "hi") 0.1) is accepted 21:24:18 doesn't sound healthy 21:24:26 -!- LiamH [~none@ip-64-134-241-151.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25:45 that's just a matter of *read-eval*, but that still leaves DoS 21:25:50 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-10.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:26:24 Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has joined #lisp 21:26:27 #.(run-program "/usr/bin/gvim" nil) <-- that launched gvim 21:26:57 what a horror, vim, that's worse than rm -rf 21:27:29 sounds like a reportable security bug 21:27:52 jasom: try #4611686018427387900(t) 21:28:10 *read-eval* won't help here 21:28:47 the number depends on the architecture and implementation, though 21:28:54 stassats: what's the generally accepted way to read untrusted data floats? Can you just check for only +-.1234567890 and then read-from-string? 21:29:02 minion: parse-number 21:29:05 parse-number: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/parse-number 21:29:36 +-.1234567890 can still intern stuff 21:29:43 the reader should be used to read trusted data (i.e. cl source code or data written by cl itself) 21:29:46 SBCL was fairly DOSable when parsing floats for a while, as well. 21:29:50 -!- snearch [~snearch@82.113.98.41] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:30:08 some implementations still are 21:30:22 but i wonder if parse-number suffers from it too 21:30:54 *jasom* remembers that a lot of x86 implementation of float parsing was DOSable because doubles had higher precision when used immediately than when passed to a function 21:31:14 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:31:16 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:56 parse-number is good, (parse-number:parse-number "1.0s100000000000000000000000000000000000000000") => arithmetic error FLOATING-POINT-OVERFLOW signalled 21:33:13 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.204.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:33:29 but it gives a strange and unhelpful backtrace 21:33:48 stassats: what about 2.2250738585072011d-308 on an x86? 21:34:09 what about it? 21:34:15 stassats: does parse-number handle it? 21:34:21 *jasom* is guessing it does 21:34:25 why wouldn't it? 21:34:27 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.28.188] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:34:28 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.160] has joined #lisp 21:34:29 i don't have x86 21:35:29 ldionmarcil [~user@dsl-216-221-52-122.mtl.contact.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:29 -!- ldionmarcil [~user@dsl-216-221-52-122.mtl.contact.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:35:29 ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 21:35:55 that caused issues in C floating-point code on the x86 since the x87 FPU is 80bit and doubles were 64-bit, you ended up with different values depending on whether or not you had stored the value to ram and re-read 21:36:29 and it's the smallest double-precision de-normal 21:36:31 what's the current mirror of arbsht's (abhisheeks) features of common lisp? 21:36:42 minion: features-of-common-lisp? 21:36:43 features-of-common-lisp: features of common lisp: Features of Common Lisp, a one-page summary of what makes Common Lisp unique: http://abhishek.geek.nz/docs/features-of-common-lisp 21:36:52 bad minion 21:37:07 antoszka: http://random-state.net/features-of-common-lisp.html 21:37:10 stassats: needs updating, abhishek's site has been dead for more than a year 21:37:12 just google it 21:37:18 righ 21:37:18 t 21:37:36 i leave it for you to update minion's url 21:37:53 jasom: I don't know what other implementations do, but SBCL switches x87 to 64 bit mode. 21:38:16 wth is x87 ? 21:38:29 pkhuong: which has been a feature request in gcc for something like 20 years now 21:38:33 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-rquovgtcyjtmwjmi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:39:09 wbooze: the floating point coproccessor for 80x86 CPUs 21:39:15 jasom: I expect the fix is to Just Use SSE, by now. 21:39:17 wbooze: just google it 21:39:34 pkhuong: yeah 21:40:32 pkhuong: but several scripting languages could be DoSed by inputting the smallest 64-bit denormal (most notably PHP, which automatically parsed numbers for you in get/post requests) 21:40:34 lol, actually I remembered I've got my own mirror: https://antoszka.pl/features-of-common-lisp/  with some UTF characters preserved correctly (not the case with nikodemus'es site) 21:41:38 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:07 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:37 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-45.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:44:29 -!- agumonkey [~agu@32.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:44:38 -!- yawnt is now known as yawnt`zzz 21:45:06 can somebody test (expt 10d0 10000) on SBCL and tell me whether the backtrace looks sane or not 21:45:36 stassats: sb-vm:sigfpe -handler 21:45:36 ah FPU ? 21:46:03 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-10.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:46:29 stassats: it does not look too sane 21:46:47 stassats: for me it goes expt -> invoke-with-saved-fp-and-pc -> some lambda from cold -> "invalid stack frame" 21:46:56 -!- carleos [~carleos@cm-83-97-243-56.telecable.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:46:57 alright, thanks 21:47:07 stassats: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135649 21:47:42 i forgot to add, i need it to be without sb-safepoint 21:49:15 stassats: like this? http://paste.lisp.org/+2WO1/1 21:49:28 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-gawxytljctdwlyim] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:49:36 right, that's what i mean by not being sane 21:49:45 indeed 21:49:51 as long as you don't have sb-safepoint 21:50:15 because it modifies the way signals are handled, so i just need to know that it's not a regression 21:50:48 i don't have it in features. 21:50:57 *features*, I mean :-) 21:51:06 i forgot that i have an old sbcl lying around, 1.0.42.10 demonstrates the problem 21:51:07 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 21:51:27 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 21:51:57 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-1-39.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:52:13 on [~on@107.Red-88-1-210.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:35 -!- on is now known as Guest48574 21:52:35 oticat` [~oticat@36-229-252-21.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:41 agumonkey [~agu@32.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:22 (+ most-positive-double-float most-positive-double-float) has a good backtrace, on the other hand 21:55:31 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c23db.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:56:31 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-10.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:57:57 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:02 Hello, all. Please, could I have some clue with this pathname doubt? 21:58:10 yes, you can 21:58:56 I had wrote something like this (directory (make-pathname :host "localhost" :directory '(:absolute "home" "itsme" ".cache" "gnome-screenshot") :name :wild :type "1") :circle "no") 21:59:27 I want to replace :type "1" with "the extension of my file is > 1" 21:59:52 or "the extension is jpg or png or pdf" 22:00:15 :host "localhost"? are you sure that you need that? 22:01:22 well i'm just trying to figure out what is in the documentation :-) 22:01:45 -!- agumonkey [~agu@32.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:02:12 and what does more than mean? 22:02:19 more than one character? 22:02:25 ... so localhost out (thanks you) 22:02:27 -!- knob [~knob@173.215.211.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:02:57 I want to pass a list or a function to :type or :name. is this possible? 22:03:11 so... what's a good lightweight CL message-passing library, either in-process or inter-process. 22:03:29 lightweight == if possible not requiring C libraries 22:03:36 Guest48574: no 22:03:47 what are you trying to do? 22:04:13 dammit, stassats asked faster than me. 22:04:20 Fare: drakma+hunchentoot? 22:04:30 swank+slime? 22:04:33 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:34 cxml-rpc? 22:04:37 Guest48574, for all pathname manipulations, you could use asdf/driver:subpathname and friends. 22:04:58 knob [~knob@67.224.181.158] has joined #lisp 22:05:01 stassats, actually, I'd like something lightweight to discuss between workers of a hunchentoot server 22:05:19 workers being threads for now... maybe forks later. 22:05:27 mmmh... let see, thanks all 22:05:47 or you could not, depending on ASDF usually ends up bad 22:06:08 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.160] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 22:06:46 asdf::subpathname has been there and working for over a year 22:06:51 stassats, haha 22:06:52 (2.017.27) 22:07:22 well, that doesn't mean that it won't stop working or be removed in the future 22:07:30 before then a variant was available 22:07:54 actually, not only it will keep working, but it's now exported from asdf/driver. 22:08:13 (it was for a short moment exported from asdf, until Xach protested) 22:09:23 i'd rather just stick with ASDF only managing loading stuff, less room for breaking things 22:09:48 Fare: did you try lparallel.queue as your communication facility? 22:09:55 tcr [~tcr@72.Red-79-154-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:51 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:12:38 dim: I didn't. I looked at lparallel, and it was not obvious where to start from. I also see an atomicity issue integrating with hunchentoot's main loop. 22:13:04 (not specific to lparallel) 22:13:11 well it depends what exactly you want to achieve, of course 22:13:47 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:14:03 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-75-93.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:14:35 in lparallel I currently only use make-kernel, make-channel, submit-task, receive-result and push-queue and pop-queue 22:15:03 dim: thanks for the tip 22:15:13 Fare: see that (shameless plug) for a primer: http://tapoueh.org/blog/2012/11/04-Concurrent-Hello.html 22:15:20 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 22:15:35 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:15:58 dim: thanks a lot! 22:16:06 -!- SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:15 happy to help! gn now :) 22:16:20 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 22:16:46 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 22:17:31 stassats, that's why xach encouraged me to split it off as asdf-utils 22:17:58 (now renamed as asdf/driver, divided into files and massively extended, then transcluded into asdf) 22:18:01 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:18:09 (but also available independently) 22:19:05 you can :depends-on (asdf-driver) without having to depend on a newer asdf 22:19:20 actually, asdf/driver is already in quicklisp 22:20:28 -!- tcr [~tcr@72.Red-79-154-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:22:11 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:23:07 ikki [~ikki@187.208.204.231] has joined #lisp 22:23:16 -!- knob [~knob@67.224.181.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:24:31 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:39 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 22:25:22 dim: looks great -- thanks 22:28:53 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:37:10 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:12 does concurrent hello mean "hello hello" kill hello "hello" kill right hello "hello" kill left hello "hello hello" wtf kill both hello "still hello" etc. ? 22:38:13 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:38:24 lol 22:38:32 it says what it means right there 22:39:37 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 22:39:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:05 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:46:20 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 22:46:59 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-137-64.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:46:59 mattrepl [~mattrepl@71.163.43.88] has joined #lisp 22:48:52 ok, checked, you definitely can pass a function to a piece of a pathname: 22:49:29 (directory (make-pathname :directory '(:relative "~") :name :wild :type (not "jpg"))) 22:50:35 you are confused 22:50:37 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-137-64.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:50:52 you are not passing a function (though NOT is not even a function) 22:50:59 you're passing its result 22:51:59 and (not "jpg") => NIL, the same as not specifying :type 22:53:15 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 22:53:30 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.163.83] has joined #lisp 22:53:30 oups, its true 22:56:51 I'm always confused, almost all the time :-D 22:58:40 waveman [~tim@101.174.161.170] has joined #lisp 22:59:51 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:00:07 loop failed also ... 23:00:19 what are you trying to do? 23:00:47 meyersh [~meyersh@198.102.147.253] has joined #lisp 23:00:52 same as this bash structure, but in lisp 23:01:03 which bash structure? 23:01:10 ls /home/me/*.[2-4] 23:02:11 -!- prip_ [~foo@host13-123-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:02:12 extensions with numbers 2, 3 and 4? 23:02:22 I can do this with four lines (directory ... : type "2") etc, I'm tryingo to figure out how to do in one line 23:03:27 yes, or matching > 1, it's the same idea. Just trying to learn. 23:03:52 (remove-if-not (lambda (x) (member (pathname-type x) '("2" "3" "4"))) (directory "*.*")) 23:03:57 :test #'equal 23:04:18 "tryingo unchained" :-) -> trying. 23:04:33 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:04:48 to be clear: (remove-if-not (lambda (x) (member (pathname-type x) '("2" "3" "4") :test #'equal)) (directory "*.*")) 23:04:52 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:04:54 -!- sweet_kid [having@irc.upasna.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:05:14 mmh, interesting... 23:07:48 on sbcl, not portable: (directory "*.[234]") 23:07:49 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:07:49 the problem is that in need to pass another function to directory, and says that wilcards are not allowed, so I need a pathname, not a string 23:08:01 sweet_kid [having@2a01:4f8:131:13c1:1::1] has joined #lisp 23:08:12 you're not going to get help by being vague 23:08:28 (I need some time to understand this lambda line...) uh? 23:08:32 paste the code, describe your problem 23:08:43 prip_ [~foo@host13-123-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:08:44 http://paste.lisp.org/new 23:08:45 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:09:43 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:11:54 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.204.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:12:05 ok, my apologies. Example, I want to remove all file.log.1 file.log.2 and file.log.3 of a given directory, but not file.txt that is in the same directory 23:12:34 (delete-file (directory ... ) works good 23:12:58 as long I put each case in one line 23:13:54 (delete-file (directory (make-pathname :directory '(:absolute "home" "blah" "blah") :name :wild :type "1") :circle "no") 23:13:58 ) 23:14:18 (loop for path in (directory "*.*") when (and (pathname-type path) (every #'digit-char-p (pathname-type path))) do (print path)) 23:14:44 Guest48574: delete-file is not going to work with lists 23:15:39 it works if you use mapcar 23:16:09 then it's not going to be working with lists 23:16:50 alternatively (loop for path in (directory "/tmp/*.*") when (and (= (length (pathname-type path)) 1) (every #'digit-char-p (pathname-type path))) do (print path)) 23:17:00 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 23:17:01 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:36 ikki [~ikki@187.208.204.231] has joined #lisp 23:19:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-162.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:35 Guest48574, what are you trying to do? 23:19:57 also, things that work on one implementation might not work on the other 23:20:24 minion: advice on portable? 23:20:24 #12017: It doesn't need to be portable, it just needs to work on your system. 23:21:01 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:21:59 well, if it's asdf, it needs to be portable :-( 23:22:40 but that's probably why asdf development is insane 23:22:45 sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 23:23:29 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:54 Fare: Trying to learn common lisp, nothing serious. Just flapping wings. 23:25:15 pathnames are one of the most insane parts of CL 23:25:23 and certainly not one worth learning CL for 23:25:31 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:57 for pathname sanity, I recommend you just use subpathname and parse-native-namestring. 23:26:06 and forget about the rest 23:27:34 -!- setmeaway [stemearay@118.45.149.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:28:06 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 23:34:39 I got it. Parse-native-namestring is only for sbl, isn't? 23:36:11 what do you need parse-native-namestring for? 23:36:13 asdf-driver:parse-native-namestring 23:36:37 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 23:37:45 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.107.166] has joined #lisp 23:38:24 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-75-93.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:32 This may take some explaining but: Is it reasonable to implement lexical closures as Functions with an associated environment? 23:40:56 drmeister: sounds reasonable to me 23:41:20 lexical closures? as opposed to dynamic closures? 23:41:28 Well, you give me a lot of things to start my research... time to thing about it, and keep following the traces. 23:42:08 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177916775.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:42:14 I'm asking because the CLHS provides the system classes FUNCTION and COMPILED-FUNCTION but it doesn't provide any sort of CLOSURE system class. 23:42:36 why should it? 23:42:44 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboq241.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 23:43:11 drmeister: there are lots of things that there is no class for (e.g. a vector of characters) 23:43:23 clhs string 23:43:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_string.htm 23:43:23 I have a CLOSURE system class that is a subclass of FUNCTION but I feel uncertain as to when I should return a COMPILED-FUNCTION and when I should return a CLOSURE. 23:43:29 there's no way within portable CL to really tell if a function is a closure or anything 23:43:34 jasom: System Class STRING 23:43:35 drmeister: when the closure is compiled, of course 23:43:53 Thanks you very much stassats and Fare 23:43:59 stassats`: nope, that's the union of vectors of character or any subtype of character 23:44:15 To be more specific. Should COMPILE return a CLOSURE with the top-level environment or a COMPILED-FUNCTION? 23:44:22 stassats`: so e.g. a vector of base-character is a string, but not a vector of character 23:44:40 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:44:41 Guest48574, more interesting parts of CL would be CLOS and the condition / handler / restart system. 23:44:43 Or does it not matter? 23:44:54 not matter 23:44:59 drmeister: (typep (compile nil whatever) 'compiled-function) has to be true 23:45:06 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:27 but (subtypep 'closure 'compiled-function) is allowed 23:45:29 compile shouldn't not return a closure 23:45:59 unless you pass it a closure, that is 23:46:20 drmeister: so yeah if you have closure be a subclass of compiled-function that's fine 23:47:22 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003f70.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:47:22 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_bbb.htm 23:47:38 you don't need to have a closures type at all, all functions can just be closures 23:48:36 stassats`: (make-array 0 :element-type nil) is a string, but not a (vector character) 23:49:19 uh? How is it a string? 23:49:30 Fare: nil is a subtype of character 23:49:32 I think I need to rearrange my classes a bit. Create a COMPILED-CLOSURE and an INTERPRETED-CLOSURE classes that subclass COMPILED-FUNCTION and INTERPRETED-FUNCTION 23:49:36 oh, yes, 0 is not () 23:49:57 IIRC ecl prints that out as "" even 23:50:16 doesn't matter that nil isn't a subtype of character, since it's not used 23:50:18 as does sbcl 23:50:31 you mean, an instance of -- it IS a subtype of 23:50:31 Bike: it was sbcl, not ecl; ecl doesn't support vectors of nil 23:51:26 Fare: anyway I ran into broken real-world code that assumed a defmethod specialized to 'string received a (vector character) when in ecl it would often receive a (vector base-char) 23:52:16 jasom, not just ecl. 23:52:19 a class for vector specialized to character is STRING, it's not an exclusive class 23:52:28 stassats`: Oh yeah, I just checked the code - InterpretedFunction and CompiledFunction have associated environments. (sigh) too many things to keep track of. 23:52:54 (satisfies (lambda (x) (eq 'string (type-of x))) 23:53:29 drmeister, you could simplify by having only compiled-function 23:53:32 drmeister: if they have associated environment,s why not just make closures synonymous iwth functions? 23:53:36 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@133.Red-81-34-239.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:53:44 (class-name (class-of x)) would be better 23:54:12 or string lengths would ruin the equality 23:54:41 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:55:55 jasom: I have been - I just forgot how I implemented them for a little while. I'm "shaving the yak" at the moment. I found a bug in compiled lambda-list processing which I can fix with assistance from DISASSEMBLE so I'm implementing DISASSEMBLE and that means messing around with COMPILE which I just screwed up because I forgot that I associated environments with FUNCTIONs making them synonymous with closures. 23:56:23 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:56:54 sdw [~sdw@cpe-107-015-129-157.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:53 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-018-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:59:08 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.107.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]