00:02:47 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 00:04:14 DrPete [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has joined #lisp 00:04:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:59 Interface passing style to convert type-safe code into CL style code? Could it be done? 00:09:01 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@outbound.terrawi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:14 *drewc* goes and experiments with monads! :P 00:09:30 Can anyone answer, in a very general sense, how expensive it is to compare two floats for equality, as compared to other types? I have previously been using gensyms for representing object identity which I believe provide quick comparison based on EQ check of pointers.. 00:10:14 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:06 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:11:57 danlentz: you could compare (disassemble (lambda (x y) (declare (single-float x y)) (= x y))) and (disassemble (lambda (x y) (declare (symbol x y)) (eq x y))) 00:12:17 For various reasons I'm considering switch to get-monotonic-time which should guarantee unique floats which I'd use for identity 00:12:57 Bike: ah yes. Thanks... Teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime.... 00:13:52 danlentz: is that actually a bottleneck for you? 00:13:54 I'm also considering that symbols, although fast compare, may impose considerably more overhead in other respects 00:14:30 danlentz: get-monotonic-time does not generate unique values 00:14:51 Don't know yet -- thought I'd throw it out there for comment before going ahead 00:15:49 fe[nl]ix: No? I assumed. Mono tonic meant always increasing 00:17:55 I could use v4 uuid I guess, but I was thinking it was heavy-handed 00:19:05 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-140-203.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:44 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.247.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:19:57 it does, but the underlying clock has a certain precision and two consecutive but sufficiently close calls to get-monotonic-time can produce the same value 00:20:38 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 00:21:13 -!- agumonkey [~agu@78.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:23:35 Oh. Bummer. I was assuming that there was some logic baked in that could trivially avoid that by adjusting raw clock reading by rolling in an atomic counter 00:24:32 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 00:24:43 Accommodating clock precision limitations 00:25:23 Otherwise it's no better than get-internal-real-time 00:25:32 what's the mailing-list for lispbuilder? 00:26:05 get-internal-real-time might or might not be affected by clock changes 00:28:45 it's a clock, not meant to generate unique identifiers 00:30:27 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:30:49 -!- Guest94795 [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:33:00 Gensyms have the proper semantics, but symbols cost in allocation overhead. Also in extra processing to achieve proper behavior to support persistence 00:33:43 *Fare* finds https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!forum/lispbuilder 00:36:58 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 00:38:23 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24-246-29-17.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:39:49 danlentz: could you just keep a counter fixnum that you increment 00:40:01 danlentz: http://paste.lisp.org/+2WN4 00:43:07 Bike: y I have atomic seq generator implemented already too but was concerned it might become a bottleneck if heavily contended 00:43:27 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-162-79.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 00:46:01 fe[nl]ix: y I may go back to that -- I used atomic-incf originally. 00:46:26 it's a few instructions at most, a syscall is much slower anyway 00:46:55 Maybe I'll look at uniquely, which seems to take some pains with regard to effiency 00:47:26 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 00:47:31 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:49:06 what is "uniquely" ? 00:49:42 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24-246-29-17.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 00:49:56 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:50:50 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 00:50:57 fe[nl]ix: Yes atomic-incf is close, but it's problematic with respect to persistence 00:53:40 ho so ? 00:53:44 I need universal identity to be guaranteed for memory-mapped persistent objects 00:55:14 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:55:48 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.14.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:56:24 So you atomic-incf and that value must be persisted also atomically in order to ensure it is not repeated if the system were to crash and restart 00:56:33 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 00:59:51 There are a number of constraints due to the particular scenario, which is for a lock-free concurrent persistent index 01:00:19 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 01:01:06 Http://github.com/danlentz/cl-ctrie 01:01:18 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-179-55.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:02:41 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:04:19 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-179-55.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:04:31 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:05:20 ifch [~androirc@187.35.205.172] has joined #lisp 01:06:01 I've gone through enough pains to preserve the guarantees of lock free atomicity of the ctrie structure it's not worth losing by taking a shortcut on unique identifier 01:07:01 Unicly is a uuid library that takes considerable pains as to correctness and efficiency 01:09:34 It's not as easy-going as dardoria uuid, but strives to provide a considerably more rigorous framework 01:10:38 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 01:13:23 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14:06 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.200.57] has joined #lisp 01:14:06 I'm not crazy about its CLOS interface but its entirely optional and provides extensive support for other representations lsuch as bit-vector, integer, octets, and so on 01:17:56 How are gensyms persistable? 01:18:05 Heh 01:19:07 Well they are problematic in a number of ways 01:20:20 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:20:43 Even if they are, why do you need gensyms? Do you lock around the counter increment? If not, why not just use any arbitrary heap object, says a cons? You still have the same persistence issues, but at least the irrelevant complexity of gensyms or uninterned symbols is eliminated. 01:21:10 I only have a specific solution to support the limited needs of this use case 01:21:58 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:07 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:23:34 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 01:23:38 Gensyms work because even if an identical is generated across reboot, it's not EQ. 01:24:55 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:25:23 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host249.186-109-109.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:26:09 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-162-79.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:26:12 -!- ifch [~androirc@187.35.205.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:27:17 k0001 [~k0001@186.153.74.218] has joined #lisp 01:28:35 No I don't have any locks. I've put a lot of effort into achoeving the lock-free aspect offered by ctrie 01:29:09 across reboot? How can anything be EQ across reboots? 01:29:51 damn my connection awful today, jasom: here an example https://gist.github.com/wasabiz/4495038 (i hope i won't dc again after typing this ><) 01:29:53 Well right. That's the idea. 01:30:18 Numbers can be eql but gensym will never 01:30:48 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:31:03 V4 uuid is probably the correct choice though 01:31:31 there is no information there. You could just as well not serialise any gensym and just cons up a fresh object (e.g. a cons) when you deserialise your data from disk. 01:32:08 UUIDs may be what you're looking for, but gensyms definitely make no sense. So, if gensyms currently work, maybe you just don't need anything at all. 01:36:37 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177916872.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:37:02 It's needed for a restricted RDCSS requires what they call a "generational CAS" 01:37:45 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:39:03 stopbit [~stopbit@c-68-50-168-116.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:01 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 01:42:17 rebooting is lockful. Any RDCSS across failure can be special cased. I still don't see how gensyms help you get object identity right when multiple RDCSS descriptors refer to the same gensym, for serialisation purposes. So, again, if gensyms work, why not just a cons, or nothing at all? 01:42:21 In certain situations it is used to determine that portions of the structure are shared as result of its capability to do efficient (o(1)) "fork" 01:42:30 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:47:23 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:47 CL is an impure language and can simply use EQ on the portions of the structure to determine that. 01:47:55 A cons might be ok, but when restored from disk there would be now way to recreate the ctrie where the various sections of the structure sharing the same generational identity could be reconstructed Ito replicate 01:48:17 A gensym doesn't work any better. 01:48:40 shifty [~user@114-198-33-227.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:49:03 alesguzik [~alesguzik@178.120.183.105] has joined #lisp 01:49:22 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:50:49 It is sufficient in that I can recreate a new ctrie in which sections that previously shared a common gensym can share a common gensym in the recreation 01:52:46 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:53:13 butyou can't tell if a given serialised gensym is the same as another. 01:54:06 It doesn't have to preserve its identity, just provide a unique value and provide a template for reconstruction 01:54:14 *print-circle*? 01:54:21 It doesn't need to be 01:54:44 They're all fresh objects. The symbol's name is irrelevant, since you don't lock around the counter. 01:55:31 When recreated the new ctrie only needs to be consistent internally 01:55:37 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:55:56 During a given session though its unique 01:56:27 If half the ctrie has "g0" and the 01:56:35 Other is g1 01:57:40 Then it doesn't matter if they are restored as "g2" and g3 01:58:46 Just that the I nodes sharing a common gensym before share a common gensym when recreated 01:59:12 It's only required to be internally consistent 01:59:50 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.200.57] has left #lisp 02:02:09 sure, so persistence is irrelevant here, and you could just as well use conses... or test the substructures for EQness. 02:02:10 It's used to provide efficient atomic clone sharing structure where each clone is read-write and isolated from the other 02:03:32 As mutations happen the structure is recreated lazily when required 02:04:30 But if I use conses I can't tell the descriptors apart when restoring 02:05:04 danlentz: you already can't. 02:05:09 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.246.29.17] has joined #lisp 02:05:33 Gensyms provide enough info via name 02:05:44 -!- alesguzik [~alesguzik@178.120.183.105] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:05:49 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:06:15 I agree though its probably not the right approach 02:07:25 That's why I was considering alternatives 02:08:56 you can't use the name, because you don't lock around updates to the gensym counter. 02:09:12 -!- dnolen [~user@rrcs-208-105-4-254.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:09:37 I guess you have a point 02:10:07 Sbcl doesn't provide that? 02:10:33 i don't think using gensyms in that fashion is common enough to want that 02:11:00 So you're right then gensyms are not correct 02:11:28 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:06 -!- brandonz [~brandon@206.169.144.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:12:33 By the time I worked out all the contortions needed to deal with the persistence it was pretty clear a better approach was desirable 02:12:36 if SBCL did, you'd have a scalability problem with the single bottleneck, and would be better off using something like atomic-incf. 02:12:56 -!- nitefli [sage@reaver.cat.pdx.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:13:45 How about 128 bit integer representation of v4 uuid 02:15:32 That would work very conveniently 02:16:57 or maybe you'd be better off with hash consing during deserialisation, which would let you disregard serialisation issues for this. 02:17:03 I suppose early on I was motivated by quick EQ comparison offered by using symbols 02:17:31 Rather than equal strings 02:17:42 Or eql bignums 02:19:07 In truth the performance hit is a non issue, but at the time I didn't know 02:19:24 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 02:19:35 Hash consing as in baker? 02:20:04 Yes that could work too. 02:20:34 nitefli [sage@reaver.cat.pdx.edu] has joined #lisp 02:20:51 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:21:05 any heap object is OK for EQ. A cons is much simpler... or, again, comparing the substructures themselves. 02:21:13 You're absolutely correct 02:22:09 In fact I think that is similar to the approach taken in the scala implementation 02:22:10 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.116.195] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:23:06 alesguzik [~alesguzik@178.120.183.105] has joined #lisp 02:23:19 For hash consing, I was thinking Ershov 57, but Baker also wrote about the technique. 02:23:25 Although I added persistence to the project much later 02:24:15 So when I originally considered the issue gensyms seemed reasonable 02:25:21 The scala implementation used heap allocated structures yes 02:26:24 Gensyms only make sense if you're generating code that you want to look at, or, maybe, if you're trying to quickly hack something up and expect to spend more time debugging the implementation than using it. 02:26:49 Yes that was also a benefit 02:27:35 There has been a fair amount of debugging -- visual cues were helpful 02:29:54 I'm still thinking that it will be less problematic to use 128 bit uuid 02:29:57 but if you expect to do this for a while, you could get the same with a thread unsafe counter and a cons. 02:30:41 The uuid would preserve identity round trip 02:33:05 It eliminates the gymnastics of dealing with the practicalities that the structure is almost never entirely in memory at a given time 02:35:19 It is primarily living in memory mapped foreign storage 02:36:47 Instantiated into heap when accessed 02:37:00 subtlepath [walker@kindista.org] has joined #lisp 02:37:23 Well the data anyway 02:38:33 I guess the CLOS she'll is always on heap 02:38:50 But the contents are not 02:40:01 -!- subtlepath [walker@kindista.org] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 02:40:04 The in memory portion is just an object with one slot, a pointer into foreign memory 02:40:07 walker_ [walker@kindista.org] has joined #lisp 02:40:08 -!- walker_ [walker@kindista.org] has quit [Client Quit] 02:40:35 subtlepath [walker@kindista.org] has joined #lisp 02:41:07 -!- subtlepath [walker@kindista.org] has quit [Client Quit] 02:41:25 subtlepath [walker@kindista.org] has joined #lisp 02:42:57 pkhuong: Thanks for talking through this with me it's been helpful to think it through like this 02:44:40 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.115.108.182] has joined #lisp 02:46:19 I originally became interested in the GCAS RDCSS approach used by ctrie partially as a result of having looked at your MCAS machine. 02:46:58 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.188.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:47:39 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-140-203.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:49:15 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:50:08 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-179-55.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 02:51:05 agumonkey [~agu@78.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:08 -!- alesguzik [~alesguzik@178.120.183.105] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:51:20 alesguzik [~alesguzik@178.120.183.105] has joined #lisp 02:52:11 The restricted RDCSS approach requiring only single word CAS seemed to offer an attractive compromise that achieved a respectable amount of capability while incurring much lower cost requiring only conventional CAS 02:52:41 Your MCAS implementation is quite cool though 02:53:00 -!- leandrogg [~leandrogg@187.35.205.172] has quit [Quit: leandrogg] 02:53:41 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 02:54:25 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-179-55.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:56:16 your STM implementation is another compelling project, but alas I have not gotten it to compile 02:58:40 having that in LIL would be nice, too 02:58:52 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.115.108.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:58:57 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 02:59:01 STM? 03:00:04 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-75.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:55 k0001_ [~k0001@200.117.220.239] has joined #lisp 03:01:27 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:04:08 I guess I bored everyone to sleep... :) 03:04:48 -!- k0001 [~k0001@186.153.74.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:06:02 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@200.117.220.239] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06:12 -!- alesguzik [~alesguzik@178.120.183.105] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:10:59 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 03:12:29 is there a simple way to push characters onto strings? seems like it should be trivial, but can't find the correct incantation :( 03:12:52 (concatenate 'string string (string char))? 03:13:52 ahhhhhh. I think I just gave up on concatenate when (concatenate 'string char string) didn't work :( 03:14:09 teggi [~teggi@123.21.159.152] has joined #lisp 03:14:17 nan_` [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 03:15:57 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:11 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.10.236] has quit [Quit: ...] 03:22:23 RazWelles_ [~Raz@c-65-34-239-133.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:30 New to lisp.. I'm trying to execute a symbol I return with a backquote, any idea how to do that? The return value is 'some-function, and I've defined the function as well, but I have no idea how to evaluate a return 03:23:44 funcall? 03:23:51 I was hoping to use , 03:24:08 -!- cataska [~user@210.64.6.233] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:24:11 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:24:18 Bike, http://privatepaste.com/d50102cff8 03:24:28 I was hoping I could do something like ,(test) 03:25:25 `(a ,(test) 4) => (a another-symbol 4) 03:26:35 ahh that did it thanks! what's the difference between ' and `? 03:27:45 quote is just quotation. backquote is quasiquotation - you can "unquote" with the comma. so `(a ,(test) 4) is roughly equivalent to (list 'a (test) '4). 03:28:35 so I can't call comma when I have a single quote, but with a backquote I can? 03:28:46 It's not calling per se, but yes. 03:29:16 Thanks Bike that clears a few things up :) 03:31:19 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:31:41 brandonz [~brandon@c-24-6-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:32 p_nathan [~Adium@rrcs-74-87-143-106.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:37:29 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.246.173] has joined #lisp 03:39:27 -!- nan_` [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40:51 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-75.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:44:05 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-75.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:42 -!- keppy [~Luca@75-151-97-182-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:50:36 -!- strobegen [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:51:12 strz [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has joined #lisp 03:51:13 -!- strz is now known as strobegen 03:52:31 keppy [~Luca@216.239.55.136] has joined #lisp 03:56:54 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has joined #lisp 04:02:00 -!- keppy [~Luca@216.239.55.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:04:01 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.63.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:04:35 _veer [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:35 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:04:36 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 04:05:38 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@rrcs-74-87-143-106.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:07:13 keppy [~Luca@216.239.55.136] has joined #lisp 04:12:54 qnavry [~daniel@c114-76-15-67.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:13:59 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:14:28 p_nathan [~Adium@rrcs-74-87-143-106.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:23:52 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:24 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.246.173] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 04:26:30 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:27:23 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31:10 rmathews [~roshan@122.164.10.236] has joined #lisp 04:32:07 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:45 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:26 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 04:35:03 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:23 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:39:57 -!- keppy [~Luca@216.239.55.136] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:43:11 -!- danlentz0 [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Dan Lentz ... 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Lentz ... Out.] 07:44:18 -!- spaceships [~spaceship@host-72-174-137-126.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:46:45 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177916872.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 07:49:12 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:49:34 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 07:56:59 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.171.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:59:17 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:01:28 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:51 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-227-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:47 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 08:08:15 am0c [~am0c@203.255.141.2] has joined #lisp 08:09:38 nostoi [~nostoi@238.Red-81-32-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:30 leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.63.179] has joined #lisp 08:11:49 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.94.94] has joined #lisp 08:14:48 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-204-88-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 08:19:32 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 08:21:58 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:22:12 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:16 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:25:50 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-152-106.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:26:10 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 08:26:50 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.176.154] has joined #lisp 08:29:46 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:29:47 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:30:37 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 08:30:58 splittist [~splittist@99-21.63-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:32:03 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-134-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:32:39 rmathews_ [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 08:33:40 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.159.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34:08 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.4.124] has joined #lisp 08:34:13 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:35:00 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:35:01 -!- rmathews_ is now known as rmathews 08:35:03 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 08:37:55 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756219.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:44 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:42:43 -!- am0c [~am0c@203.255.141.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:44:09 Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has joined #lisp 08:47:21 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:47:28 danlentz0 [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:33 -!- danlentz0 [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:48:26 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 08:49:55 Anyone want to review a function I wrote for Alexandria? 08:50:17 (if anyone is even awake...) 08:50:37 sure 08:51:21 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has joined #lisp 08:51:47 Alexandia has DELETE-FROM-PLIST which just APPLYs REMOVE-FROM-PLIST. 08:51:59 I wrote a destructive version: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/lisp-random/src/d9681e5aa0720c2e8fca199910b329fd66785df7/miscellaneous_exercises/delete-from-plist.lisp 08:52:03 (the second function) 08:53:52 First the first good key and delete -> First find the first good key and delete 08:53:53 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.65] has joined #lisp 08:54:17 ha, :) 08:55:00 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@238.Red-81-32-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Seite geschlossen] 08:55:15 (I also just added INLINE declarations to those LABELs) 08:57:16 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 08:57:36 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:49 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:01:27 Looks good to me. 09:02:02 Great! Thanks. 09:04:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:10:19 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:10:31 Now to play the waiting game with Alexandria devs :) 09:10:33 :( ** 09:10:43 impomatic [~digital_w@146.90.165.144] has joined #lisp 09:11:19 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0ece.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:38 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:14:28 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756219.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:18:45 paddymahoney1 [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 09:20:36 -!- paddymahoney1 is now known as paddymahoney 09:25:51 -!- rob7n8h55 [~rob7n8h55@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:06 planetable08 [~planetabl@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:21 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:32 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:32:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-210.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:34:20 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.184] has joined #lisp 09:36:36 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 09:37:14 -!- planetable08 [~planetabl@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:38:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:40:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:40:24 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 09:42:31 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.65] has joined #lisp 09:45:37 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:10 -!- bdmst [~bdmst@198.27.77.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:46:46 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 09:51:33 -!- brendyn is now known as brendyyn 09:52:20 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:53:46 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:55:43 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:56:49 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:57:00 back-sey43 [~back-sey4@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:57:44 knocked out another patch to Alexandria: added a DEPTH key to FLATTEN. 10:04:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:05:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:08:49 bdmst [~bdmst@198.27.77.11] has joined #lisp 10:11:24 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11:42 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Quit: ...] 10:15:48 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:17:59 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:19:17 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:54 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:46 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 10:25:28 paddymahoney1 [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 10:26:07 zorkmoid [c2ed8e0a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.10] has joined #lisp 10:26:34 -!- paddymahoney1 is now known as paddymahoney 10:28:36 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:29:32 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 10:30:22 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.213] has joined #lisp 10:30:42 paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 10:30:56 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 10:34:50 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.241.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:39:01 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 10:47:26 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 10:47:40 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@192-0-129-74.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 10:48:41 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:49:52 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-227-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:50:12 rmathews [~roshan@122.164.10.236] has joined #lisp 10:52:38 Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has joined #lisp 10:53:34 holy canoly 10:53:41 what doesn't loop macro do 10:54:09 Extensibility? 10:57:20 <|3b|> finding element that maximizes/minimizes some function of the element? 10:57:56 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:58:28 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:00:29 |3b|: Hah, I remember writing my own version of that. Something analogous to MAXIMIZE but it maximizes (F X) but records X. 11:00:59 ebw [~user@f051080134.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:01:53 Hi there! Is there any on using make-string-output-stream and unwind-protect over simply using with-output-to-string ? 11:03:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:03:38 ebw: nope. 11:04:43 I noticed, i didn't type the word advantage ... it should have read "Is there any advantage on ..." 11:04:47 pjb: thanks 11:05:12 <|3b|> doing it by hand is a bit more flexible, but if you are just doing what with-output-to-string does, you should use that 11:06:04 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-wxjrmzvcxjjzxzoo] has joined #lisp 11:06:05 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-wxjrmzvcxjjzxzoo] has quit [Changing host] 11:06:05 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 11:06:16 |3b|: I'm reading code from cl+ssl and wondered about this usage. It seems to be the same. 11:06:16 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-210.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:09:56 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@2601:c:3680:1c:d9e2:17e1:851f:cd93] has left #lisp 11:10:33 Ah the usage has even been wrong, the stream had been closed before get-output-stream-string was used ... 11:10:40 *|3b|* only sees one make-string-output-stream in cl+ssl, in example.lisp which doesn't use unwind-protect, and returns NIL instead of "" for empty output 11:10:47 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.10.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:11:15 |3b|: conditions.lisp line ~47 11:11:53 fetched from git://gitorious.org/cl-plus-ssl/cl-plus-ssl.git 11:11:56 <|3b|> hmm, guess my local copy is out of date or something 11:12:42 -!- dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:45 <|3b|> and getting the string after the stream is close does look unportable 11:14:12 |3b| clhs speeks of undefined behavior in this case 11:14:12 rmathews [~roshan@27.61.107.69] has joined #lisp 11:14:17 <|3b|> right 11:14:17 |3b| sounds worse 11:15:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-210.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:17:03 <|3b|> so in that case worse than w-o-t-s (even if w-o-t-s might expand to the same thing on platforms where implementors know it is safe) 11:18:44 -!- rmathews [~roshan@27.61.107.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:19:31 |3b| bit w-o-t-s is a good fit here, isn't it? (with-output-to-string (s nil :element-type 'character) (body s)) and all is good? 11:19:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:20:00 dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 11:20:10 <|3b|> right, and element-type defaults to character anyway, so don't need to specify it 11:20:22 -!- dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 11:21:18 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-134.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:21:29 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.100.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:22:22 ASau [~user@46.115.100.212] has joined #lisp 11:24:25 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:27:50 agumonkey [~agu@78.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:18 redline6561: I'm trying to use colorize, but the output is all unindented and on a single line, any idea what I might be doing wrong? 11:41:04 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has joined #lisp 11:41:30 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 11:42:56 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:42:57 ifch [~androirc@189-19-127-157.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 11:46:14 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46:32 AeroNotix [~xeno@abon87.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:50:13 16WAAHOCF [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 11:51:05 -!- 16WAAHOCF is now known as paddymahoney 11:51:24 agumonke1 [~agu@78.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:48 -!- agumonkey [~agu@78.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:52:04 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:52:53 paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 11:53:17 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-134-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:53:39 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.94.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:53:40 weirdo [sthalik@kronstadt.misaki.pl] has joined #lisp 11:54:00 will struct/class sealing in sbcl show errors at compile-time? 11:54:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-134.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:56:21 is there such a thing? 11:57:05 sb-ext:freeze-type 11:57:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-134.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:57:21 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-41-115.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:58:08 if typep can be decided at compile-time, surely declaim can be analyzed? 11:58:31 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:02:06 -!- ifch [~androirc@189-19-127-157.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:02:22 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-91-77.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 12:02:30 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 12:03:00 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:03:51 typep can sometimes be decided at compile-time. 12:03:57 dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 12:04:28 is it necessary to use structs, or are classes possible? 12:05:13 Necessary for what? 12:05:30 Zhivago, to have some degree of quasi-static-type-safety 12:06:24 You are not making a great deal of sense. 12:06:49 Do you understand the difference between class and type in CL? 12:07:56 Also, declaim is a promise by the programmer to the implementation. 12:08:21 Zhivago, the description of sb-ext:freeze-type talks about structs, was hoping it could seal classes too 12:08:42 asking about implementation-specific detail, given that SBCL does limited amount of type inference/recovery 12:09:06 I think that you are confusing types and classes. 12:09:21 freeze-type doesn't seal any classes, struct or otherwise. 12:09:37 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-91-77.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:09:42 -!- dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 12:09:43 What it does is to require that a type definition not be changed in the future. 12:10:00 Zhivago, that's what programmer giveth - but what programmer taketh? 12:10:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:12:05 Actually, the documentation for that seems inconsistent. I'd refer to the source. 12:12:41 thanks 12:13:38 maka [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 12:14:07 https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/master/src/compiler/proclaim.lisp 12:15:18 yes, seals 'classoids'. thanks 12:15:26 will have to declare debug and play with it for a bit 12:15:36 are common-qt or cl-gtk2 usable with their respective GUI designers (qt builder, glade?) 12:15:42 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.241.92] has joined #lisp 12:16:02 s/?)/)? 12:16:56 maka, Qt generates C++ code for its ui 12:16:57 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-91-77.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 12:17:11 there's an xml file, but one would hafta write a generator from scratch 12:18:07 maka, cl-gtk2 should be possible, because the ui description from glade can be loaded at runtime. 12:19:16 both can be loaded at runtime. Qt Builder can generate xml files too 12:19:29 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.140.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 12:19:42 I know it's possible, but what I'm asking is can commontq or cl-gtk2 do it out of the box? I guess not? 12:20:07 or rather qt creator 12:20:26 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:21:35 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-134.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:22:07 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:24:11 maka, I don't know, what you mean by out of the box ... You programm will need to load the ui-xml-file and will get some type of container in return, where you can access the ui-elements by ids (which you selected in glade for example). If think you will need to connect your code to the appropriate signals. There is no codegenerator, that will stub that for you, if that is, what you mean. 12:25:48 can either those xml files and return cl object? 12:25:59 can either load xml files and return cl object? 12:36:04 maka, mom plz 12:37:32 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 12:37:57 maka, there are a few gtk:builder* functions in the api, so I assume yes. 12:37:59 Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has joined #lisp 12:40:19 maka, there is a gtk:builder class, (make-instance 'gtk:builder) (gtk:builder-add-from-file ) (gtk:builder-get-object ) this suggest, it should be possible. 12:40:57 yes that's part of the GTK api. nice if it works with CL 12:41:49 maka, yeah, and those functions returned the cl objects last time i used them. 12:42:16 nha [~prefect@rn-nat2-uw-129-97-124-242.net.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 12:47:17 and what about common-qt, can you extract Qt objects from Qt Creator's xml file? I would test it myself but straightforward installation didn't work for either, so this will be the deciding point which one to get 12:49:30 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:57:23 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:01:54 danlentz [~danlentz@2601:c:3680:1c:d9e2:17e1:851f:cd93] has joined #lisp 13:02:26 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:04:10 -!- nha [~prefect@rn-nat2-uw-129-97-124-242.net.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:05:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:09:11 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-225-006.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:53 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 13:11:19 i would say yes, there should be nothing stopping this from working 13:11:27 although i don't know how it works 13:11:47 i mean, in native qt 13:14:54 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:15:07 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 13:16:50 stassats`, code is generated at compile-time 13:16:57 to some .uih files 13:17:00 which are C++ 13:19:03 leoc [~leoc.git@p57B9B606.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:59 am0c [~am0c@175.252.198.75] has joined #lisp 13:20:12 it can be done at run-time 13:21:00 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-91-77.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:21:08 http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/quiloader.html 13:21:15 nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:36 -!- maka [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 13:21:37 commonqt doesn't provide a higher level interface for that, but commonqt doesn't aim to be high-level at all, just access to Qt 13:21:48 -!- svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:21:53 maka` [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 13:22:29 weirdo can't Qt Creator generate xml files as well, like Glade? 13:22:51 it does, at least for me 13:23:08 maka, (ql:quickload 'cl-gtk2-gtk) worked fine for me. 13:24:08 it works well as long as you have all the foreign libraries 13:24:51 and before using QUiLoader, you need to do (ensure-smoke 'qtuitools) 13:26:49 maka`: so, i'm certain that commonqt will work with xml files created by qtcreator, i haven't done that myself, i lay out widgets manually 13:27:27 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-91-77.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:27:38 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:28:02 qml should work as well 13:28:07 Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has joined #lisp 13:28:50 maka`, it does 13:30:11 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:30:42 -!- p_l is now known as p_l|hackathon 13:30:55 but actually parsing the files and generating output seems like a project in itself 13:31:28 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has joined #lisp 13:31:55 parsing lib recommendation? Something quick to write, even if not best speed :) 13:31:58 cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-156-65.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 13:32:25 weirdo: why would you? i just told that qt does that itself 13:34:08 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:34:23 Hello, has there been any efforts to implement C++ templates or even just static typing in CL (i heard now about typed/racket and Qi but i mean CL), i'd like to read more about that kind of material if you got any suggestions. thanks! 13:34:56 c++ templates? what the hell for? 13:35:05 <|3b|> p_l|hackathon: i used esrap last time i wanted to parse text, smug also seems popular 13:35:27 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:35:33 I am curious to hear why you would want C++ templates in lisp too 13:35:47 stassats`: the ideas of templates is a very powerful concept, problem is their implementation in C++ which is awful 13:36:04 have you heard about macros, perchance? 13:36:30 stassats`: maka`: let me give you an example 13:38:01 aside from macros, you can use defmethod to write functions that run differently depending on what types are used 13:38:43 ebw` [~user@g228014067.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:39:01 dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 13:39:40 stassats`: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135619 13:40:19 nan_ sounds like you want defmethod 13:40:29 defmethod does almost exactly that, I think 13:40:29 nan_: are you serious? 13:41:12 do not underestimate the power of lisp! 13:41:18 -!- agumonke1 is now known as agumonkey 13:41:33 (defmethod genlength ((x sequence)) (length x)) 13:41:34 -!- ebw [~user@f051080134.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:41:37 (defmethod genlength ((x some-other-type)) (some-other-length x)) 13:41:40 -!- ebw` is now known as ebw 13:41:50 sequence covers lists and vectors 13:41:59 pavelpenev: Honestly, my only use of it is in coleslaw. This sounds like a fixed issue though... https://github.com/redline6561/colorize/issues/1 13:42:14 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 13:42:14 Adeon: defmethod is run-time 13:42:14 this is the ONLY thing i miss when i go from C++ to C or CL. 13:42:24 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:42:29 nan_` [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 13:42:47 I should probably note that fix more loudly in the docs. 13:42:47 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:10 nan_`: then use compiler-macros 13:44:23 dc again... thanks to http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/ 13:44:25 nan_ how would compile time check work in here: (defun foo (x) (genlength x)) ? what is the type of x ? 13:44:26 c++ needs templates or whatnot because it has static typing 13:44:35 <|3b|> nan_`: so you would call that like (length some-list 'list)? 13:44:48 stassats`: more like it has no runtime type information (RTTI is a joke) 13:45:20 i think you'd need something like glet/define-generic-struct to resolve that, there is already an example here 13:45:26 so you're trying bring to lisp a solution to a problem which does not exist 13:45:28 https://gist.github.com/wasabiz/4495038 13:45:53 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:58 nan_`: anyway, you can use macros for some of that. 13:46:16 and if you "seal" the image, it's possible to make CLOS resolved statically mostly 13:46:44 (LW does that, for example) 13:46:50 if you want a statically typed language you should look at something other than lisp 13:47:14 or write a subset of CL that will be easier to track types 13:47:22 if you want c++, you know where to find it 13:47:45 maka`: thing is, the more i use macros and read about them, the more i think implementing templates better than C++/D is practically possible 13:47:53 grrr, compiling asdf overheated my laptop :( 13:48:29 stassats`: i don't want c++ but you can't deny that static typing has its strengths too, and this is it 13:48:41 i can deny it 13:49:26 Fare: that's nothing, i can't test my programs anymore with new asdf on Allegro Personal because it eats more memory than before 13:50:06 Fare: hahaha 13:50:15 Fare: still in France ? 13:50:46 does asdf use asdf as a build system? 13:51:43 yes, but not exclusively 13:51:54 midon [~ircap@41.129.235.99] has joined #lisp 13:51:55 -!- midon [~ircap@41.129.235.99] has quit [Client Quit] 13:51:57 hmm 13:52:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:53:41 maka`: i don't expect (defun foo (x) (genlength x)) to work in compile time, i am talking about (def-generic-fun foo (x) ..), where this foo can resolve x at compile time, not the usual defun. 13:53:57 nope, back in BOS 13:54:52 redline6561: ah, thank you, works now :) 13:54:52 stassats`, can you build your program with asdf's fasl-op, then load it w/o asdf ? 13:55:00 -!- am0c [~am0c@175.252.198.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:55:21 samebchase, yes, but it's bootstrapped using make 13:55:30 nan_`: the issue is that quite often you won't be able to know x at compile time 13:55:43 when you add extra constraints, normal CLOS mechanics can do so mostly 13:55:46 |3b|: no you wouldn't call it like that but you'd already have a variable which was crated by something like (def-generic-type, glet) 13:55:47 (LW, as I said, does that) 13:55:55 a previous asdf3 can also bootstrap asdf 13:58:08 nan_ maybe that is possible. but it seems like going against the nature of the language. one of key points of lisp is it's highly dynamic nature, ability to update code live without restarting program, etc. 13:59:42 nan: What you're after is probably called 'partial evaluation'. 14:00:32 -!- dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 14:01:13 Fare: compile-system doesn't work, and i don't know what fasl-op is doing 14:01:27 mikaelj: thwap to maka` 14:01:37 minion: thwap to maka` 14:01:37 maka`: direct your attention towards thwap: THWAP! http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif and http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif (see also: http://www.unmutual.info/misc/sb_itsits.mp3 ) 14:01:38 :D 14:01:43 not enough memory to compile? That's no good. 14:02:06 you could ask franz for a better license. 14:02:09 yes, personal edition memory limits 14:02:17 well, i don't care for it, just saying 14:02:28 it worked with older asdf, now it doesn't 14:02:29 I wonder how easy it is to override. 14:02:32 :-( 14:02:48 qrac [~qrac@37.244.146.119] has joined #lisp 14:02:58 Fare: you can buy a full licence 14:02:59 hi 14:03:06 well, asdf has certainly grown in size. I didn't know how to make it smaller and still do all those things 14:03:34 stassats`, what if you reduce the optimization level? Will that reduce the memory pressure? 14:03:59 or use poiu, so compilation happens in forks and don't eat memory? 14:04:04 it's not high as it is 14:04:40 or, that would mean adding allegro fork support to poiu. 14:05:23 stassats`: does it exhaust memory compiling the full asdf.lisp or also on the split defsystem ? 14:05:26 is emacs the best way to write lisp? 14:06:07 fe[nl]ix: not compiling asdf, just loading a system with lots of dependencies 14:06:09 fe[nl]ix, why would it differ? 14:06:45 is seems like vim is a 2nd class citizen when it comes to writing lisp? 14:06:59 qrac: yes 14:07:01 Fare: compiling a big file forces the compiler to keep lots of data in memory before writing it to the fasl 14:07:14 because the CL compilation semantics don't allow streaming a fasl 14:07:21 stassats`: shame 14:08:06 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@www31335u.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 14:08:25 i don't know whether it's the loading process that consumes more memory, or asdf.lisp itself 14:08:29 The name "ASDF/ACTION" does not designate any package.. 14:08:35 any idea? 14:08:43 when loading sb-bsd-sockets 14:08:46 weirdo: used asdf3 then not? 14:08:51 Fare, no 14:09:10 weirdo, what is (asdf:asdf-version) ? 14:09:22 2.26 :( 14:09:42 thank you 14:09:42 then sb-bsd-sockets was compiled with 2.29, but somehow you're not loading it now. 14:09:57 was unfortunate enough to use gentoo's builtin infrastructure 14:10:12 Fare: an useful implementation extension would be to allow specifying an additional ABI fragment to compile-file 14:10:14 <|3b|> nan_`: some implementations let you introspect the declarations in effect during compilation, so you could use those to decide which specialized version to use, or expand to a runtime check if no type is declared 14:10:55 <|3b|> nan_`: also i think at least sbcl provides some access to derived types if you don't mind being completely implementation specific 14:12:01 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 14:12:19 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:53 and is dispatch the bottlneck? 14:16:25 additional ABI fragment??? 14:16:27 what do you mean 14:19:24 a string that gets concatenated to the host ABI and that specifies which ASDF compiled that FASL, if any 14:19:57 that way you can ensure that load signals an error if loading an older fasl 14:20:50 for example, every time you change one of the ASDF internal packages, or add/remove a package, you increase the ASDF ABI 14:21:01 and older fasls become incompatible 14:21:46 just don't use asdf symbols 14:22:04 it's not that simple 14:22:16 is vim usable for editing lisp files? 14:22:26 qrac sure 14:22:48 qrac: well, i would say that vim is not usable for anything, but then again, some people are using it 14:22:50 I too have encountered cases where loading a fasl bombed because of some package it couldn't find although I wasn't using ASDF specifically 14:24:04 and deleting all fasls is easy enough so I preferred not investigating further into what caused it 14:25:11 hi lichtblau :) 14:26:45 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 14:28:04 qrac: probably best to try a few different things out and settle on workflow/toolchain that you the best 14:28:22 that suits you the best 14:28:41 minion: please tell qrac about slime.mov 14:28:41 qrac: direct your attention towards slime.mov: "using SLIME" video by Marco Baringer, http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov 14:29:28 and that ^ seems to suit a few people the best atm 14:29:43 so it might be worth checking out 14:30:12 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-210.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:32:21 slime? 14:32:25 browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.170.216] has joined #lisp 14:32:28 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.170.216] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:32:50 browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.170.216] has joined #lisp 14:36:22 it is emacs though 14:36:34 shame as it looks nice 14:36:43 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:12 what shame? 14:39:33 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:40:20 there's slimv which aims to do the same in vim 14:40:52 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:41:53 oh? 14:42:17 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:20 -!- maka` [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: quit] 14:50:18 there's evil for emacs after which you can use vim keybindings 14:52:55 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:48 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:22 brandonz [~brandon@c-24-6-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:19 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:57:46 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-212-202-134-139.static.qsc.de] has left #lisp 14:58:50 Adeon: been using vim for 6 years, dont think it would work for me 14:59:08 i could try tho 14:59:11 you could at least try it 14:59:16 imo it is usable...of course your mileage may vary 14:59:45 -!- agumonkey [~agu@78.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:59:55 you came from vim? 15:00:02 agumonkey [~agu@78.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:04 I use vim most of the time 15:00:17 except for lisp where I want to use slime 15:00:40 so I use emacs+evil and call it good enough 15:02:13 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:16 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:04 pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has joined #lisp 15:03:34 Adeon: someone mentioned slimv earlier. its not as good? 15:03:58 -!- pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:04:09 k0001 [~k0001@200.117.219.219] has joined #lisp 15:04:10 I think I tried using it but had trouble, don't remember exactly what kind of trouble as that was quite some time ago 15:04:37 it was probably something that I tried using for 10 minutes, couldn't figure out and then gave up 15:04:46 pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has joined #lisp 15:05:37 (otherwise I'd remember more details...) 15:05:47 wheelsucker [~user@ip68-8-180-107.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:43 i will try both and see what works better for me 15:06:57 I sometimes also use the linedit package to make the lisp REPL more sane when used outside slime 15:07:04 qrac: on planet lisp there was a link for an example setup with ViM 15:09:58 dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-180-232.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:24 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.241.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:15:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-210.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:16:35 -!- weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:17:41 yawnt [~yawnt@unaffiliated/yawno] has joined #lisp 15:18:02 has anyone ever done a lisp with a smalltalk like object system? i mean something integrated in the language and not a library .. 15:18:17 cause i stumbled on an article where they were talking about doing one for the rubinius VM 15:18:29 but haven't found any code or other mentions about that 15:19:01 -!- pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:38 pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has joined #lisp 15:19:54 Well ... if you think of (+ 1 2) as sending the message [1, 2] to the object + ... 15:20:25 -!- pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:21:09 pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has joined #lisp 15:22:02 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.241.92] has joined #lisp 15:22:42 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:09 -!- pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has quit [Client Quit] 15:26:17 -!- drmeister 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[~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:26 p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.116.195] has joined #lisp 16:15:05 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.160] has joined #lisp 16:15:12 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:19:19 hagish [~hagish@e181014173.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:26:04 paddymahoney1 [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:26:50 grac: as long as your editor does paren matching, it's usable. 16:27:41 anyhow, Rob Warnock made this point in more depth and subtlety than is possible in irc: http://xach.com/rpw3/articles/BJqdnd9R65ee3qDbnZ2dnUVZ_vGinZ2d%40speakeasy.net.html 16:27:50 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:28:30 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Killed (barjavel.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 16:28:30 -!- paddymahoney1 is now known as paddymahoney 16:28:47 that said, I do believe anybody writing common lisp code outside the domain of emacs and slime is making their lot more difficult than it needs to be... 16:28:51 but I'm not emacs phobic. 16:29:33 Guest76437 [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:16 i have found slimv excellent, as an aside 16:30:38 that is good news. 16:30:59 it's tiring to have the 'I hate emacs' conversation every time a vim afficionado gets interested in lisp. 16:31:29 slimv does not have a feature parity with slime, thouhg 16:31:34 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 16:31:34 alagabes_ [~me@adgh120.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:32:28 nha [~prefect@76.66.223.250] has joined #lisp 16:32:41 k0001_ [~k0001@host41.181-1-162.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 16:33:36 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.160] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:34:10 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-24-6-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:34:36 -!- alagabes [~me@abue248.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:35:44 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:36:00 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.117.219.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:39:18 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-210.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:42:15 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:42:40 -!- Guest76437 [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:12 -!- qnavry [~daniel@c114-76-15-67.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:44:03 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.241.92] has joined #lisp 16:47:28 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-210.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:47:31 -!- stopbit [~stopbit@c-68-50-168-116.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:45 -!- ifch [~androirc@189-19-127-157.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:50:36 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-204-88-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:53:14 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abon87.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:54:22 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:56:20 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-180-232.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:57:24 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:57:25 yawnt: 1- there's no difference between integrated in the language or a library in lisp. 16:57:52 yawnt: 2- CLOS is a super set of Smalltalk OO system. There would be little point of writing such a subset, but you can do so for the fun. 16:57:54 not syntactically, at least 16:58:05 paddymahoney1 [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:15 fe[nl]ix: and for most implementations, not even semantically. 16:58:47 pjb: when i said "in the language" i was thinking something like ruby that has a String for classstrings which you can extend and call methods on 16:58:48 AFAIK, only clisp, ecl and abcl would make a difference between code written in lisp and some "implementation" language. 16:58:54 *String class for strings 16:59:23 -!- paddymahoney1 is now known as paddymahoney 16:59:37 (defmethod to-i ((s string)) (parse-integer s)) (to-i "42") --> 42 16:59:53 also, alan kay bootstrapped smalltalk in lisp, so I guess you could say that alan kay has done what you're talking about. 16:59:54 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-76-183.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:59:59 -!- paddymahoney is now known as Guest95608 17:00:09 yawnt: methods belong to generic functions, not to classes, in CLOS. You can define methods that are specialised on the string class if you want. 17:00:19 yawnt: for sequences, there's an unofficial extension that adds CLOS methods to system classes 17:00:33 -!- Guest95608 is now known as paddymahoney 17:00:54 p_l|hackathon: name? 17:01:09 but again, if you want to implement more closely the Smalltalk OO system, this shouldn't take more than a week end for a full fleshed system (and just a couple of hours for a working prototype). 17:01:59 pjb: i am not really interested in smalltalk oo, more in prototypes.. but i haven't found anything on that either 17:02:12 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:02:15 that's why i switched to smalltalk.. hoping to find more content 17:02:22 yawnt: IIRC KR is a prototype OO system. 17:02:22 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. Freenode staff: If this is happening too frequently, please set a nickserv freeze on my account, and once my connection is stable, unfreeze the account and /kill me to trigger a reconnect.] 17:02:38 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 17:02:46 http://cliki.net/KR Yep, prototype. 17:02:49 sychopomp build a prototyping object system in common lisp. 17:02:58 pjb: yeah but i'm looking for something like what p_l|hackathon mentioned 17:02:59 iirc 17:03:07 pjb: not some functions that enable to use prototypes 17:03:43 You're not making any sense. 17:03:57 maybe i'm just gettin all wrong 17:04:14 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-133-188.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 17:04:19 http://cliki.net/CLON 17:04:21 Just have a look at the mentionned systems. 17:04:30 ok i will 17:04:32 thanks 17:05:04 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 17:05:29 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 17:07:34 AeroNotix [~xeno@abok226.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:09:27 yawnt: XLISP 2 (by David betz) had a smalltalk object system with message passing and everything, but it's interpreted only 17:09:29 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5AF501D3.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:54 what the... 17:10:03 hm, wait 17:10:14 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 17:10:23 -!- qrac [~qrac@37.244.146.119] has quit [Quit: qrac] 17:10:42 no, i'm an idiot 17:10:55 edgar-rft: thanks 17:11:30 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5AF507FD.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:12:27 hagish_ [~hagish@e181037254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:12:27 -!- hagish [~hagish@e181014173.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:12:34 AFAIK the Nyquist audio programming language by Roger Dannenberg is the only software that still uses XLISP-2, see http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~music/music.software.html 17:12:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.126.233] has joined #lisp 17:12:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.126.233] has quit [Changing host] 17:12:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:12:56 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-220-39-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:13:21 There also was XLISP-STAT (a predecessor of R) that used XLISP-2 17:14:30 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-133-188.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:30 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.218.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:15:31 cmm [~cmm@109.65.218.23] has joined #lisp 17:17:54 ldionmarcil [~user@dsl-216-221-52-122.mtl.contact.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:54 -!- ldionmarcil [~user@dsl-216-221-52-122.mtl.contact.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:17:54 ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 17:20:38 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:20:55 milosn [~milosn@user-5AF501E4.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 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18:50:34 ZombieChicken [~ZombieChi@108-222-198-111.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:14 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:55:41 does loop (or does iterate) have a "across array" variant where SETF on the variable works, ie. which gives a symbol-macro as place? 18:56:13 loop does not 19:00:16 (loop for i below (length vector) do (symbol-macrolet ((v (aref vector i))) (incf v))) 19:01:26 (map 'vector #'1+ vector) 19:03:12 flip214: that sounds quite useful, but a potentially nasty surprise... can't decide whether its usefulness wins over its surprising aspect 19:03:20 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@outbound.terrawi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:03:31 ngz [~user@43.41.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:46 -!- FareWell is now known as Fare 19:04:32 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755de3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:08 would be easy to add to reiterate, maybe under a different name than the traditional vector iteration 19:05:38 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 19:05:39 attila_lendvai, your bug looks really weird to me 19:07:05 -!- ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 19:08:09 ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has joined #lisp 19:08:09 -!- ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has quit [Changing host] 19:08:10 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 19:09:44 sorry for that, I swear I'm not breading them... :) 19:11:49 guys, check out my demo of how to provide OpenID login for CL web apps: http://cl-openid-demo.herokuapp.com/ 19:11:59 sources here: https://github.com/avodonosov/cl-openid-demo 19:12:13 forgottenwizard [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 19:12:29 I'm not sure openId is such a good idea. 19:12:35 -!- ZombieChicken [~ZombieChi@108-222-198-111.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:12:40 -!- forgottenwizard is now known as ZombieChicekn 19:12:43 pjb: why? 19:13:06 ZombieChicken [~ZombieChi@108-222-198-111.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:06 A single entity knows where you're loging in. 19:13:32 Makes the work of the FBI so much simplier. 19:13:33 if this entity is trusted 19:13:40 -!- hagish_ [~hagish@e181037254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:13:52 we should all help FBI, they fight crime 19:14:21 i'd rather help KGB 19:14:26 they fight FBI 19:14:30 pjb: unfortunately you need way much more defense than the lack of openid to defend yourself against their sheeple financed data centers... 19:14:49 Yes, like Aaron Swartz's crimes. 19:15:25 *attila_lendvai* cheerfully notes the refreshing sanity of #lisp 19:15:28 I am joking of course 19:16:16 I am not going to convince anyone for/agains FBI, KGB, etc 19:16:23 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:16:55 pjb: if speak about this, all internet activity is monitored very closely without openid 19:17:01 for advertisement reasons 19:17:08 Of course. And for other reasons too. 19:17:25 For example, we're using a irc network that goes mainly thru US servers 19:17:47 I think privicy is lost forever with rise of computer technologies 19:17:51 minion: logs? 19:17:52 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 19:18:25 *attila_lendvai* considers booting his virtual machine to go through tor and his anonymous nick to... err, wait, I need my real identity here! :) 19:18:54 ifch [~androirc@189.79.254.21] has joined #lisp 19:19:01 well, now you've disclosed that you have an anonymous alter ego 19:19:17 stassats`: who? 19:21:36 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 19:22:00 one? :) heh, I have a pgp key... that kinda makes it almost an automatic assumption... 19:22:04 antonv: I did a "log in with google" plugin for restas, should update it for recent restas changes though: https://github.com/pvlpenev/restas-google-auth/ 19:22:52 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host41.181-1-162.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:24:12 pavelpenev: cool 19:24:27 pjb: imagine that we add OpenID authentication to cliki 19:24:34 k0001 [~k0001@host148.190-229-162.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:24:38 whould you care if FBI know you login into cliki? 19:24:56 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.246.29.17] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 19:25:27 and hence do you want to remember separate login/password for cliki, or whould you prefere to login with your google account (if you have one)? 19:26:53 I'm not saying it's not practical. I'm saying it may not be a good idea. 19:27:51 well, people who have such concerns should make choice in any particular case 19:28:42 I think OpenID is one of the last tools which may reveal your behaviour in the Net 19:29:21 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-156-65.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30:58 it is know that quite often peple when register on a web site chose the same password as they have on their email account 19:31:30 if the site registration includes email, the site knows both email and password 19:32:05 so for avearage user, not very experienced and careful about security OpenID has some advantages 19:32:45 If a hacker finds the single password I use, it's my fault. If he finds all the single passwords all the people uses, just hacking the single openId target, it's worse. 19:33:11 the worst thing with OpenID I am aware of is fishing 19:33:28 for example some web site proposes you "login with Google" 19:33:40 you click the ling, google login form opens, you enter name and passowrd 19:34:14 but if the site is malicious, it can show you fake google login form after you click the "login with Google" link 19:34:49 so if the site is new for you, you should always check the address bar during federated login 19:36:12 this depends on how you trust the website proposing federated login. If it is serious company you trus - no need to worry. If it is some new, unknown web side - always check address bar 19:36:53 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:23 example of web site where you should not worry is cliki.net :) 19:37:42 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:37:43 antonv: What if cliki got hacked? 19:38:52 pavelpenev: IMHO no more danger than any other web site got hacked, or your computer got hacked, or google got hacked 19:38:55 -!- ifch [~androirc@189.79.254.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:39:06 ALWAYS check the address bar unless you entered the address yourself(and even then, a hacker might have bought something like gogle.com and is phishing with it) 19:39:18 pavelpenev: well, I agree 19:39:30 google bought gogle.com 19:39:38 clever bastards! 19:40:03 ha, yes 19:40:06 but they forgot about http://goggle.com 19:40:13 I know google has every domain similar to google, including, I thing elgoog.com, but in general, not every site can buy all the similar domain names. 19:41:16 goggle.com offers chance to win free macbook 19:41:39 seems legit :) 19:42:52 attila_lendvai: if you add that to reiterate, please make it a flag so that it works for all accessors - in, across, etc. 19:43:13 flip214: noted 19:43:31 thanks a lot! 19:43:35 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:43:48 well, noone has cancelled 3 computer security rules: never own a computer,. never turn on you computer, never attach your computer to network 19:45:09 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.140.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:47:17 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-210-220.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:47:21 pavelpenev: if you are interested in OpenID, I thing about adding immediate mode 19:47:29 started coding once (3 years ago) 19:48:42 also, I think about providing an "account chooser" library, which abstracts OpenID and other authentication methods (Facebook, Twitter, PGP key) 19:49:09 SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:34 and "account choser" could provide not only lisp code, but also html/javascript elements 19:49:35 antonv: I originally wanted to learn OpenID because I was learning web development, and I hate writing forms, and every app I was writing had to have a login form. It looked like a stupid easy way to learn without haveing to deal with forms. :) 19:50:46 pavelpenev: do you have any deployed apps with OpenID login? 19:51:03 antonv: I thought about haveing my restas plugins eventually converge into something like Django's social-auth library, combined with the standard Django auth stuff, and once and for all not have to worry about authentication and authorization :) 19:51:22 antonv: I just mess around at home :) 19:51:45 yes, I also don't have deployed apps with openid 19:52:06 pavelpenev: cliki is a good candidate for OpenID 19:52:42 hagish_ [~hagish@e181037254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:54:28 cliki2 has assumption that every account has a password and password sals 19:54:40 tanderson2 [~thayer@pool-98-118-89-201.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:44 maybe some other incompatibilities with openid 19:54:45 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.160] has joined #lisp 19:55:05 some refactoring would be necessary to add OpenID to cliki 19:55:44 but most likely not big refactoring 19:56:09 Hey everyone. I am a lisp newbie. Is (list :key value) a valid construction of an association list? If so, how would I access value given :key? 19:56:36 (getf plist :key) 19:56:52 it's a property list, though 19:57:02 dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-180-232.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:05 Okay, thank you 19:57:12 tanderson2: you are making plist - property list 19:57:26 yes 19:57:43 antonv: using my plug-in(I assume cliki2 wasn't updated to the latest restas changes? from around new year) you could write custom login and logout functions, and have the login function register a new user using the email as a username and something as a password, maybe extend the plugin to ask for one? 19:57:46 for alists, it's (acons :key value alist) 19:57:50 tanderson2: an a-list is made with (acons :key value a-list) 19:58:14 or (push (cons :key value) alist) 19:58:34 pavelpenev: possible 19:58:46 fir adding values to an existing plist, it's (list* :key value plist) 19:58:53 tanderson2: one of the good references about your question: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/beyond-lists-other-uses-for-cons-cells.html 19:59:03 Thanks for all the help 19:59:08 pavelpenev: why do you restrict your plugin to google only? 20:00:27 antonv: I tend to write my first versions as extremely minimalist systems, there is a separate restas open-id plugin(but i think it had some bugs) 20:01:38 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-180-232.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:01:54 sipo [324fa721@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.79.167.33] has joined #lisp 20:02:44 pavelpenev: makes sense (the restas open-id plugin is mine, now aware about bugs thought) 20:03:09 pjb: do you know you can use http://informatimago.com/ as your OpenID identity? 20:04:18 antonv: the point is that people should ask themselve the question each time they log on a new service whether they want to use the same identity as the previous one! 20:06:12 ifch [~androirc@189.79.254.21] has joined #lisp 20:07:20 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:13:50 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-178-012-235-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:14:52 Forty-3 [~seana11@outbound.terrawi.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:52 -!- splittist [~splittist@99-21.63-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:57 SanderM_ [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:12 lando [~lando@c-66-176-196-78.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:10 antonv: I looked through the logs of #lispweb and I definitely mention a bug of some sort with your plugin, but I can't remember it at all(I don't quite feel like spending my Saturday evening hunting bugs I might or might not have seen 4 months ago, since I also have to check out an older restas). But the reason I didn't use it was probably because I wanted to use attribute exchange to fetch a users email, and also NIH is the 20:23:11 best way to learn :). 20:26:33 pavelpenev: ok, thanks for the info 20:26:37 ferada [~ferada@dslb-178-012-235-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:45 I'm not sure NIH is always the best say to learn. :) 20:27:20 -!- ifch [~androirc@189.79.254.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:27:44 pavelpenev: I started to write this plugin because thought to add openid login to lipser.ru 20:28:46 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:30:30 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:31:58 antonv: If a new generic auth plugin is developed, that might be an easy way to add it to many restas sites :) Maybe the new policy stuff can help, haveing no documentation, but a few blog posts and with my broken Russian, figuring out the new features of restas has been fun :) 20:32:21 dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 20:32:42 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-17-141.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:34 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 20:36:33 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:36:34 pavelpenev: I now think if I starte development and generic "account chooser" component it will not be restas plugin 20:36:53 restas focuses on modulearity, but only considers module as a set of URIs 20:37:05 leaving other aspects of web application moduels aside 20:37:24 I mean HTML/javascript parts 20:37:45 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 20:37:46 I think web of application component as a part of web page, a widget 20:37:56 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@outbound.terrawi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:38:04 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:38:31 this implies component should encapsulate not only server-side handlers of a bunch of URIs, but also sepcify set of javascripts to load, css 20:39:26 and probably the widted interaction with the HTML page when running in browser 20:39:59 the widget surroundin enviroment. I.e. the widged may have some javascript API 20:40:59 if such a widget is created, it can be then wrapped into restas module, ans also may be used in webapps not using restas 20:41:22 antonv: sure 20:41:50 but I would only deveop such an account choser component if I run some CL web site requiring it 20:42:21 or at worse somebody else run a CL web site and need such compoent 20:42:44 development just for developmet, without real application is not interesting 20:43:49 antonv: sure, Django had to be thorn out of the guts of a messy real world system :) 20:44:36 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:46:13 Anyway, my exams are over, so I might have more time to play around with restas, maybe I can get some toy project online. 20:50:36 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-76-183.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:06 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-171-15-248.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit 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[~yawnt@unaffiliated/yawno] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:50:15 cabaire [~nobody@xdsl-78-35-153-21.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:51:59 -!- cabaire [~nobody@xdsl-78-35-153-21.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:52:26 cabaire [~nobody@xdsl-78-35-153-21.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:54:03 ifch [~androirc@189.79.254.21] has joined #lisp 21:55:35 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755de3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:55:38 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:55:46 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-250-231.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:06 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-239-125.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:58:09 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 22:01:24 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:04:27 -!- ebw [~user@g228014067.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:14 -!- _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:34 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 22:08:46 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:04 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:09:42 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:10:08 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 22:11:24 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:15:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-210.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:18:03 that's why I should have again gone straight to the code/tests: the optima readme contains broken code as examples... https://github.com/m2ym/optima/ 22:18:59 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:19:07 what's broken? 22:20:44 hrm, maybe my environment... but if not, then this: (match (list 1 2 3) (list x y z) (+ x y z)) 22:21:52 *attila_lendvai* pokes fare before goes to bed... 22:21:57 good night 22:22:01 ah yeah, that seems broken. 22:22:33 meiji11 [~user@d50-99-51-156.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:06 kslt1 [~karl.sier@netblock-72-25-110-30.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 22:28:42 good night 22:28:43 -!- SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:48 attila_lendvai, pong? 22:29:18 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:45 k0001_ [~k0001@host32.190-229-162.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:33:21 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: all hope lost] 22:33:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:34:30 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host31.190-229-208.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:38:16 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.241.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 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[~Casstango@2604:2880::67c0:651b] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:58:40 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 23:00:10 -!- ifch [~androirc@189.79.254.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:00:18 Onii-san [~Casstango@2604:2880::67c0:651b] has joined #lisp 23:03:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:04:29 jaoswald [48e39970@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.72.227.153.112] has joined #lisp 23:04:37 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-012.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 23:06:38 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:14 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-171-15-248.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-52.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:53 -!- cabaire [~nobody@xdsl-78-35-182-250.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:14:09 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:14:11 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:14:56 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 23:16:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:38 -!- kslt1 [~karl.sier@netblock-72-25-110-30.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:53 So I was writing a code analysis program and I wanted to collect different warnings and errors. Now the first way I did it was to just print junk to stdout, but that was insufficient because I wanted to do some processing on the warnings and whatever. Next I built explicit closures which collected the issues, and I just added them to the function call/return pipeline. But that became messy fast... lots of list/tree manipulation to make sure thin 23:23:38 The only other ideas I have are (1) make some object which acts as the collector and that's threaded through the computations, (2) maybe do something weirder like signal a condition, let the data bubble up somewhere interesting, collect it there, and invoke a restart to continue processing. 23:24:04 What do you guys think is a clean way to do this? 23:24:30 -!- jaoswald [48e39970@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.72.227.153.112] has left #lisp 23:25:29 jaoswald_ [48e39970@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.227.153.112] has joined #lisp 23:26:04 Ologn [~ologn@cpe-69-206-235-96.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:28:21 -!- jaoswald_ [48e39970@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.227.153.112] has left #lisp 23:29:09 Quadrescence: i don't see much of a problem with the signaling. it allows you to separate the handling from the signaling, and it may allso allow you to attach more information to the warnings as the signals bubble up. 23:29:46 Now, to be clear, when I say "warning", I don't really mean it in the WARN sense. I mean "some information about the state of the code being analyzed" 23:31:11 -!- p_l|hackathon is now known as p_l 23:31:47 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:31:48 you can let the warnings bubble up and catch them if they're yours. 23:32:02 yes 23:33:08 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:35:03 -!- sipo [324fa721@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.79.167.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:35:34 astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-235-122.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:20 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:36:41 -!- Ologn [~ologn@cpe-69-206-235-96.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 23:37:46 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:46 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:39:57 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 23:41:53 -!- agumonkey [~agu@78.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:42:10 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:51:16 nha [~prefect@76.66.223.250] has joined #lisp 23:52:56 -!- hagish_ [~hagish@e181037254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:54:27 pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has joined #lisp 23:59:10 -!- ngz [~user@43.41.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]