00:01:49 ok, asdf 2.30 released 00:02:01 -!- rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:13 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:05:13 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:05 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 00:10:54 -!- bitonic [~user@b0f86210.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:15 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:11:24 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:30 bitonic [~user@b0f86210.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.247.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:18:36 nha [~prefect@rn-nat2-uw-129-97-124-212.net.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 00:19:30 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:21:40 brandonz [~brandon@199-188-193-9.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:08 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:22:12 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-bwjjdtghonwufiyk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:26:40 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:15 ikki [~ikki@187.240.223.195] has joined #lisp 00:30:51 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-177-66-41.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:32:47 -!- stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:35:38 -!- doesthiswork [~Adium@75.87.251.5] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:36:48 -!- brandonz [~brandon@199-188-193-9.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:38:30 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.202.33] has left #lisp 00:38:52 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:39:36 -!- karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:39:45 -!- benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:40:05 karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:40:37 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc01-o.oracle.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:46:28 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 00:50:03 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.160] has joined #lisp 00:52:04 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:53:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:56:14 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:00:16 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 01:00:54 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 01:01:55 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:10 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.160] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:02:18 -!- ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:25 -!- splittist [~splittist@99-21.63-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:03:59 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 01:06:50 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.59.104] has joined #lisp 01:07:58 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:58 does CLHS mandate free variables to be considered special? 01:11:00 Fare: i doubt it. i think i read that people used to use (setf var ...) without making it. if they would've had to be special, then i'd say a lot of things must've gone haywire. 01:11:13 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:12:50 then a forward-reference to a special variable is indeed a bug, or at least a portability issue, isn't it? 01:12:56 (making it being, without creating a binding for the variable through let or something of the likes) 01:13:29 Fare: AFAIK, yes. (but i'm not an authority) 01:14:01 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 01:18:16 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.160] has joined #lisp 01:29:35 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.223.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:32:24 So a few weeks ago I was able to get the Art of the Metaobject Protocol CLOSETTE code to compile and run on my new CL compiler - Oh frabjous day! 01:33:04 Sadly, using that code means I'd have to start from scratch to implement a lot of other stuff like RESTART-CASE. 01:34:00 building a CLOSETTE implementation sounds fun 01:34:11 -!- bitonic [~user@b0f86210.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:34:36 So I'm continuing with my plan of hosting the ECL Common Lisp code on my compiler - and that means lots of software archeology as I try to figure out how the ECL code works and what C functions it requires that I have to recreate within my system. 01:35:24 So I'm working through the ECL CLOS code and it calls ALLOCATE-RAW-INSTANCE and I'm trying to figure out what it does. 01:36:00 probably allocates an array-ish-thing to use as an instance 01:36:02 It looks like it allocates a structure that contains a pointer to a CLASS, an array of SLOTS and a length (number of slots?) 01:37:16 sounds about like i'd expect. 01:37:51 Bike: Agreed. It looks like if I implement a C++ class called "Instance" that stores a pointer to an object and an array of slots (pointers to objects) that it should do the job. 01:38:28 It should maintain a pointer to an object (that represents a meta-class) and an array of slots. 01:38:43 What is the "length" thing for though - is it just the number of slots? 01:38:50 once you get it working you might look at PCL's stuff. like classes have hash codes in them for use with gf discrimination 01:39:41 length as length of the slot array would make sense to me, but i have no way of knowing. how else would C code know how many slots there are? 01:41:22 Bike: I just found the C struct "ecl_instance" and slots is a simple pointer, so most certainly "length" stores the number of slots. 01:42:50 There's also a field "cl_object sig" with the comment "/* generation signature */" and another "cl_objectfn entry; /* entry address */". 01:43:16 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-223-009-175.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 01:43:59 These are not initialized when an instance is allocated. 01:44:12 Do you have any idea what these might be? 01:44:41 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:44:59 nope! 01:45:22 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 01:46:07 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 01:47:54 generation -- maybe for use in update-instance-for-redefined-class ? 01:48:14 entry -- maybe to hold the actual slot contents? 01:48:31 or an entry point for funcallable instances? 01:48:54 grep for who uses it and/or inspect on a live instance 01:49:27 There is no "Instance" class defined in the CLHS - I guess "Instance" is an low-level implementation dependent way of creating instances of all classes. 01:51:12 Fare: What are funcallable instances? Does it mean you have an instance XXX and you can use (funcall XXX ...)? 01:51:19 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:26 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:51:27 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 01:51:32 yeah 01:51:52 like i said, they're a MOP thing mostly, though generic functions are funcallable instances 01:52:21 (typep #'documentation 'standard-object) => T 01:53:14 oh no, that's only in MOP, not CL 01:53:15 Bike: Right, you mentioned those earlier. What is a MOP thing? Meta-Object-Programming right? Are funcallable instances a CL extension? 01:54:02 They're an extension to support things like CLOS. 01:54:07 referring to the pseudostandard in The Art of the Meta-Object Protocol 01:54:19 Essentially instances with a function slot nailed on. 01:54:20 funcallable instances are fun. 01:54:27 SBCL differentiates between INSTANCEs and FUNCALLABLE-INSTANCEs. 01:54:42 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:54:45 isn't the latter a subclass of the former? 01:55:08 But funcallable-instances are not necessary to implement clos - correct? I mean - I was able to get CLOSETTE running without funcallable instances. 01:55:33 no, you need them if you want to have funcallable-standard-object though, which is part of the MOP extension to CL. 01:55:58 drmeister: http://www.alu.org/mop/index.html 01:56:04 Well, consider how to add a method to a generic function without multiple identities for the function. 01:56:06 Fare: I'll implement FuncallableInstance as a C++ subclass of Instance. 01:56:28 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.12.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:57:31 You could have a global mapping from function to methods. 01:58:30 Bike: I read AMOP a couple of times through last fall. I guess the value of FuncallableInstance over Instance will become clearer as I move forward. 01:59:42 drmeister: well there are two basic advantages off the top of my head - being able to treat generic functions as objects (with slot accessors, like g-f-methods and so on); and probably more esoterically, defining your own objects that can be used like functions. 02:00:15 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-4d028183.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:01:04 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177916872.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:02:39 well you don't actually need object-ness for slot-like-things, but make-instance and so on i guess 02:04:07 Of course, had functions been instances from the start ... 02:04:33 So much of this is complicated due to the bolt-on design of CLOS. 02:05:36 Bike, that second advantage isn't esoteric :) 02:07:12 Would you recommend defining Instance as being funcallable or a non-funcallable Instance class and a Funcallable-Instance as a subclass of it. 02:07:35 ECL appears to have one Instance class that is funcallable. SBCL appears to have two separate classes. 02:08:28 if you do things the obvious way, having them be one thing means an extra empty field for every instance, doesn't it 02:08:32 drmeister: Do you want to be able to specialize on them separately? 02:08:48 Qworkescence: i saw your symbolic-function thing. needed fancier autodifferentiation :) 02:08:52 Bike: Yes, an extra empty field for every instance. 02:08:52 -!- ravster [~ravi@66.207.222.14] has left #lisp 02:09:01 lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 02:09:03 Bike, patches welcome :))) 02:09:21 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 02:09:36 Zhivago: I don't know yet. I'm just starting to host the ECL CLOS code. 02:10:58 It's not that big a deal I guess. I'll start with Instance and a FuncallableInstance subclass - if I run into trouble I'll coalesce them into one C++ class. 02:14:02 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 02:16:53 replcated [~user@24-217-97-210.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:19:48 so, question, is (lambda (&optional (x nil xp)) (declare (type whatever xp)) ...) allowed, if probably pointless? 02:21:36 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 02:24:03 Bike, I think so, because CLHS says it is bound, which they mean lexically bound, which I think permits declarations on it 02:24:13 figures 02:24:45 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.136.63] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 02:25:16 Would CL conditions also be stored as Instances? 02:25:16 kubatyszko [~kubatyszk@pd8465f.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:25:26 you don't have to, but it's common to. 02:25:36 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:26:05 Bike, perhaps interestingly, all it specifies is that it must be of type (or null t), as opposed to boolean 02:26:19 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:26:27 Qworkescence: what? 02:26:35 That's what I'll do then. My Conditions are a mess, I implemented every CL Condition in the CLHS as a C++ class. I'll soon have to rip that out and reimplement them as Instances. 02:26:56 Bike, xp is specified to either be NIL, or non-NIL (any "true" value) value 02:27:05 yeah, that's what i expected 02:27:18 (or null (not null)) more like 02:27:27 yeah that is better 02:27:35 but that is just T :( 02:27:39 which is why it would be pointless to declare 02:27:39 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.160] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:28:04 Bike, I wonder why they didn't specify it to be BOOLEAN 02:28:19 What special data could you possibly have when it's non-null? 02:28:53 maybe you could get some not-negligible-in-the-80s speed improvement by passing the value itself as specifiedp 02:29:16 hah, maybe 02:38:27 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:45:21 k0001 [~k0001@host233.190-226-195.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 02:45:52 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:47:53 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-alwxyohrnjyvshft] has joined #lisp 02:49:04 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 02:51:12 -!- sohakes [~sohakes@186.207.75.185] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:54:04 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-177-66-41.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:54:55 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.150.134.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:56:15 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:57:01 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:57:23 breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 02:58:14 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:05:37 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:06:13 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has joined #lisp 03:13:05 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:13:40 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.202.33] has joined #lisp 03:15:41 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.146.70.172] has joined #lisp 03:28:17 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.59.104] has quit [Quit: ...] 03:33:03 -!- replcated [~user@24-217-97-210.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:36:06 -!- breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:41:18 ldionmarcil [~user@dsl-216-221-52-122.mtl.contact.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:18 -!- ldionmarcil [~user@dsl-216-221-52-122.mtl.contact.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:41:18 ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 03:41:30 daowee [~daowee@m5-241-232-41.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 03:51:20 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:50 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:09 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.146.70.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:57:25 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:13 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 04:05:10 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:05 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:08:14 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 04:08:37 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:21 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:27 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:25 I grabbed some code from SBCL to handle #n= and #n# and shoe-horned it into the ECL code that I'm hosting and I thing I have a mismatch in how CLOS types are defined. 04:17:34 Is this valid code: (typep tree '(or cons (array t) #+clos instance #+clos funcallable-instance)) 04:18:04 Or more specifically: (typep XXXX '(or instance)) 04:18:16 if you have a type called instance, sure 04:18:40 and you know i looked at that after yesterday and couldn't figure out why it walks instances and funcallable-instances. must be something exciting. 04:18:42 I don't think the ECL code defines a type called instance. How do I determine this? 04:18:56 you could (describe 'instance) and see what happens 04:19:05 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:19:55 Quadrescence [~quad@c-24-6-135-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:55 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@c-24-6-135-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:19:55 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 04:20:00 (describe 'instance) 04:20:00 INSTANCE - internal symbol in COMMON-LISP-USER package 04:20:04 My DESCRIBE is not quite there yet. ECL says: 04:20:14 (the above) 04:20:41 how about (apropos "instance")? 04:20:56 When I (describe 'integer) it says its a type. (describe 'instance) says nothing about it being a type. 04:21:17 well the symbol might not be visible in CL-USER 04:22:00 apropos doesn't say if it's a type but (apropos "integer") doesn't say its a type either. 04:22:04 k0001_ [~k0001@host43.200-117-33.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:22:13 no, i'm just wondering if it's in a different package 04:22:32 for instance in SBCL, INSTANCE is in SB-KERNEL, and not visible from CL-USER 04:22:54 (typep 1 'integer) --> t (typep 1 'instance) --> ERROR 04:23:31 yes, i'm asking if 'cl-user::instance there might not be the same as 'ecl-internal-clos::instance 04:23:38 qu1j0t3 [~qu1j0t3@kvm5.telegraphics.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:23:43 rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 04:23:49 Quadrescence: http://view.eecs.berkeley.edu/wiki/Dwarf_Mine 04:23:57 Apropos doesn't show any INSTANCE symbol in CLOS:: or SI:: - the only packages that come up. 04:24:14 alright then. 04:24:21 There is an EXT:INSTANCE - let me try that. 04:24:41 EXT:INSTANCE is not a valid type specifier 04:25:13 Maybe I should change that test in the sharp-sharp reader macro to use predicates. 04:25:19 you could probably try removing the instance and funcallable-instance paths from circle-subst and see what breaks 04:25:22 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host233.190-226-195.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:25:35 i doubt the code in those paths isn't very impl-specific, anyway 04:25:53 Quadrescence: I am looking for a an actor model benchmark, do you think one of these areas might be fruitful? 04:26:12 http://ecls.sourceforge.net/new-manual/ch33s10.html real helpful 04:26:15 It doesn't break anything if I remove them. 04:27:13 I've been working with the :CLOS feature turned off for a few hours. I just turned it on now that I'm plowing into CLOS. 04:27:22 Quadrescence: link was via https://www.google.ca/search?q=The+?Seven+Dwarfs?+of+Symbolic+Computation 04:27:47 drmeister: does #1=s(foo :bar #1#) work (assuming (defstruct foo bar))? 04:29:00 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:29:06 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:29:35 I'm sure that it won't. I wrote the reader almost completely in C++ (I need it to bootstrap) I never implemented an #s reader macro. That's what you meant right? #1=#s(foo :bar #1#) 04:29:35 madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 04:30:06 well, i was wondering about recursive structs, but no that won't work if you don't have #s yet 04:30:40 Down the road I would like to support it. I use #s in SBCL. 04:30:53 you can't lack it and be conforming, so. 04:31:28 Oh wait, yeah, it's standard CL - so I will have to support it. 04:31:48 but, i ask because that's the place that seems most likely to involve the instance path in circle-subst. 04:32:00 Then I also need #n= to crawl instances don't I? 04:32:18 Or I'm conflating structures with class instances. 04:32:26 i don't know if structure objects are instances. 04:32:35 Bike: Mine aren't. 04:33:07 (typep #s(foo :bar 9) 'sb-kernel:instance) => T, so I guess that explains why that path is there in circle-subst! 04:34:35 It is a bit redundant to have structure objects and instances. They share a lot of functionality. 04:35:03 I guess it's because of the "bolted on" nature of CLOS. 04:35:40 Oh well, what's a few extra classes among friends. 04:35:47 oh, you mean in CL in general? yeah, but there are some nice bits, like structs can be packed closer and don't need to worry about redefinition. 04:37:55 It's because of different metaclasses. 04:38:23 I didn't know that. Supporting class redefinition seems like an awful lot of trouble for something that I would think wouldn't be used very often. 04:38:40 rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has joined #lisp 04:38:42 i do it interactively a lot, i s'pose. 04:39:41 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.202.33] has left #lisp 04:39:46 Bike: Really? What do you use it on? 04:40:20 just, stuff like (defclass foo ...), but then i decide i want it to have another slot and reload the form. 04:40:41 It's because of images, mostly. 04:40:56 i'm pretty sure that if you do that objects of the old foo have to be updated and work as new foos, which is not true of structs. 04:41:15 If you don't use images, then it's far less economically viable to pay for class definition support. 04:41:34 But if you do, then paying for redefinition saves you from rebuilding the image from scratch. 04:42:17 These days, I think that images are an expensive anachronism. 04:42:22 <|3b|> useful for interactive development even without saving an image 04:42:32 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:42:58 Interactive development has a similar economic relationship. 04:43:20 <|3b|> yeah, less of an anachronism though 04:43:50 The cost of regenerating the current state vs. the cost of keeping the material for regenerating the current state and the current state in sync. 04:44:27 Ugh, now I'm getting a "Could not find function ( CORE:SETF CORE:INSTANCE-REF )" but there is a (defsetf sys:instance-ref sys:instance-set) defined. Doesn't that define ( CORE:SETF CORE:INSTANCE-REF )? Note: CORE: and sys: are nicknames of the same package. 04:44:53 These days, machines are so fast, that it's not significantly slow to just edit and re-run from source in most cases. 04:44:57 no, defsetf doesn't define a function (setf instance-ref) 04:45:47 Bike: Ah, so I have to (defun (setf instance-ref) ...) explicitly? 04:46:03 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-204-182-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:46:45 <|3b|> still nice when playing with large data sets (or medium sized data sets with slow loaders), or when state depends on interactive use 04:46:49 I guess so, though I'm kind of curious why you're using #'(setf instance-ref) rather than (setf (instance-ref ...) ...) 04:47:23 It's not me, it's the ECL code I'm using that generated the error. I'm investigating now. 04:47:35 Actually, I have to run for a few minutes. 04:54:28 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:55:03 thoto_ [~thoto@e181162002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:58:14 -!- thoto [~thoto@e181166136.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:00:41 -!- qu1j0t3 [~qu1j0t3@kvm5.telegraphics.com.au] has left #lisp 05:03:26 -!- ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:08:05 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 05:11:48 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:19:15 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.116.195] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:25:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.66.144] has joined #lisp 05:25:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.66.144] has quit [Changing host] 05:25:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:26:03 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host43.200-117-33.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:29:23 Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has joined #lisp 05:30:10 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:30:16 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:33:41 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:34:05 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:35:45 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 05:35:48 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:07 Found it, this ECL code is evaluating (FUNCALL (FUNCTION (SETF INSTANCE-REF ) ) #:store-do-setf ... and the function (SETF INSTANCE-REF) isn't defined (sigh). 05:36:44 (defun (setf instance-ref) (nv what ever) (setf (instance-ref what ever) nv)) 05:38:16 I guess that ECL defines the function (SETF INSTANCE-REF) in the C-code. 05:38:43 -!- pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 05:40:02 So (setf (instance-ref XXXX YYY) ZZZZ) does the same thing as (funcall (function (setf instance-ref)) XXX YYY ZZZ) but does it through a different mechanism. 05:40:04 Is that correct? 05:40:13 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 05:40:37 do you know how setf expanders work? 05:40:37 Assuming (setf instance-ref) function is defined and (defsetf instance-ref ...) was defined as well. 05:40:48 Macro magic? 05:41:04 not exactly. look at get-setf-expansion and define-setf-expansion 05:41:10 Bike: Sort of. It's all done with macros. The details I'm fuzzy on. 05:41:25 the details are important here. 05:41:52 I've look at get-setf-expansion and define-setf-expansion a lot. I haven't grokked them. 05:42:02 maybe look at (get-setf-expansion '(car x)) and (macroexpand '(setf (car x) y)) 05:42:34 I pick up things in a kind of funny way. Reading doesn't really work well with me. Working through problems and implementing things - I learn very fast. 05:43:23 or maybe something more nested, like (gethash (aref x y) (car z)) 05:43:24 That's not an excuse. I'll read them again. 05:44:57 But the bottom line is that this ECL code is trying to invoke the function (setf instance-ref) and it doesn't exist and (defsetf instance-ref instance-set) isn't defining the (setf instance-ref) function. 05:45:03 yeah. 05:45:33 the defsetf just tells the system how to expand (setf (instance-ref ...)). that expansion isn't necessarily in terms of a function (setf instance-ref). 05:45:53 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 05:47:38 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-171-15-248.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:48:39 Hmmm, ECL (apropos "instance-ref") only returns "SI:INSTANCE-REF Function" and (fboundp '(setf si:instance-ref)) returns Nil. What the hey? 05:50:31 what? it's saying there's a function si:instance-ref, not (setf si:instance-ref) 05:50:45 Yes. 05:51:27 The setf that is the cause of the problem is (setf (class-id class) name) which is invoked the CLOS boot code. 05:52:42 akovalen` [~user@95.72.101.174] has joined #lisp 05:53:44 Bike: I don't want to drive you nuts with my problems. I really appreciate your help and your encyclopedic knowledge of CL. I'll work on it for a while. 05:54:07 no worries 05:54:09 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.72.96.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:54:34 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 06:07:45 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 06:08:05 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:17:56 -!- pierre1_ [~pierre1@186.205.209.165] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:18:30 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.172.94] has joined #lisp 06:20:14 -!- spaceships [~spaceship@host-72-174-137-126.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:21:39 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.95.246] has joined #lisp 06:24:26 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:25:05 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:28:29 mrSpec [~Spec@188.21.162.214] has joined #lisp 06:28:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@188.21.162.214] has quit [Changing host] 06:28:29 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:33:52 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.95.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:34:13 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.95.246] has joined #lisp 06:34:30 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177916872.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 06:36:45 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.172.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:38:23 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.95.246] has quit [Client Quit] 06:38:39 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.95.246] has joined #lisp 06:39:44 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:41:44 Bike: If you are still on, the problem turned out to be packages. The 'instance-ref symbol was defined in the "sys" package and so GET-SETF-EXPANSION was not finding the (defsetf instance-ref instance-set) expansion and was defaulting to an expansion that used the function (setf instance-ref). 06:41:58 ah. 06:42:19 Bike: what are you workin' on? :) 06:43:42 right now? seeing if i can make a basic type derivation thing 06:44:09 -!- nha [~prefect@rn-nat2-uw-129-97-124-212.net.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:44:34 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.95.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:44:51 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.95.246] has joined #lisp 06:45:39 Bike: what kind? for what? 06:45:51 for CL 06:46:10 nothing very theory-involved at all (if that's even possible with CL), just messing around 06:46:57 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:47:52 this led to me realizing (block nil (+ (return) "hello" unbound-variable)) is legal, though 06:48:04 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:48:25 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.95.246] has left #lisp 06:48:38 Bike: that seems natural for that to work, given that lisp enforces left-to-right eval :S 06:49:04 Quadrescence: it's actually a consequence of bottom, (block nil (+ "hello" (return))) works just as well 06:49:34 I was a bit surprised to realize this even applies to argument counts, though. (block nil (expt (return))) 06:49:59 Bike: i dont see how that's much different, it evals "hello" then evals (return) and jumps at that point 06:50:03 argcounts is interesting though 06:50:19 it's not different, i'm just saying left-to-right doesn't matter. 06:50:33 it does when you have unbound-var? 06:50:36 wwell no, you're right, yeah. 06:52:03 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:52:26 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:56:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:56:26 Bike: if you get bored, maybe you can patch my defsetf :) 06:56:55 where's that? 06:57:16 https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/cl-locatives/src/dda46b0dc45db40b0669281f99742e7b5fd7710b/cl-locatives.lisp?at=default 06:59:42 Bike: Sure -- scheme doesn't require a particular evaluation order. 06:59:55 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:00:21 didn't matter in this context particularly, i meant. 07:01:34 someone should make a compiler switch that orders based on how much the particular argument conses in the reader :) 07:01:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.66.144] has joined #lisp 07:01:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.66.144] has quit [Changing host] 07:01:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:03:31 Bike: am I wrong in thinking that I'd need to record the arity of the writer inside the locative in order to reconstruct the setf-expander? 07:03:37 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0263.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:39 X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 07:03:58 let me see. 07:04:30 -!- jeppy [~shh@cblmdm72-241-44-113.buckeyecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:05:58 jeppy [~shh@cblmdm72-241-44-113.buckeyecom.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:30 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:06:44 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:07:12 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.179.242] has joined #lisp 07:08:39 Yeah, I think you do, I don't see how you can have a setf take any number of values... 07:10:46 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.2.108] has joined #lisp 07:13:58 which is a bit weird, I don't see any immediate problems with expanding (setf (dereference locative) (function-returning-values)) to (multiple-value-call (locative-writer locative) (function-returning-values)) (other than not matching the model of setf expanders, i mean) 07:16:00 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 07:16:54 Actually I'm not sure how you'd do it even if you had the arity. You need the setf expansion at macroexpansion time but you don't have the locative yet, so you couldn't query its arity. 07:17:18 oh yeah you're right 07:20:37 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-231.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:02 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.179.242] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:25:01 I guess the problem with an arbitrary arity place would be how you deal with, e.g., (setf (values (dereference locative) x) (something)) 07:25:21 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.202.33] has joined #lisp 07:27:37 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28:21 no, that works, setf values knows how to deal... 07:30:47 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:32:39 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 07:32:39 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:32:39 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 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timeout: 255 seconds] 10:15:09 what's the equivalent of rest or cdr for a vector ? 10:15:41 francogrex: (subseq x 1) 10:16:25 Quadrescence: you're a genius 10:16:31 :) 10:16:48 but be aware that it creates a new vector 10:17:24 spooky 10:19:09 yes it's ok 10:19:53 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 10:20:29 (make-array (1- (length x)) :displaced-to x :displaced-index-offset (1+ index)) 10:20:40 zorkmoid [c2ed8e15@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.21] has joined #lisp 10:20:48 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.87.89] has joined #lisp 10:20:50 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.87.89] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:21:03 lithpy morning! 10:21:23 http://drewc.org/interface/monads.html#sec-3-1 for INPUT-REST for strings 10:21:33 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.87.89] has joined #lisp 10:21:45 drewc: i started implementing monads 10:22:23 Quadrescence: interesting! dare I ask how/what/why? 10:22:38 no reason, i just think define-interface is fugly 10:22:58 https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/algebraic-data-library/src/fb120ba5e58b/maybe.lisp?at=default 10:23:02 so, you used DEFCLASS? 10:24:02 ok, ADT:DEFDATA 10:24:49 (that component is here: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/cl-algebraic-data-type/overview ) 10:26:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:27:05 of course i dont (yet! (?)) encapsulate the idea of an interface so we get methods for the time being 10:28:43 looks interesting indeed. Similar to something I had done actually, only it seems more .. type-like. 10:29:07 I tried to keep the expansions lean 10:29:32 i.e. generate the bare minimum but be "safe" and not try to introduce a whole new language or whatever 10:30:00 even though it's somewhat limited in scope right now, it covers a lot of my own use cases. (even with the limitation that matching is only 1-level deep) 10:31:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.66.144] has joined #lisp 10:31:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.66.144] has quit [Changing host] 10:31:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:33:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:34:30 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:34:41 silenius [~silenius@e179083050.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:34:45 -!- silenius [~silenius@e179083050.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:14 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:37:56 kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-4d029a08.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:31 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:45 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:42:09 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:42:29 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:43:14 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 10:48:09 Obfuscate [~keii@unaffiliated/obfuscate] has joined #lisp 10:49:19 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:50:12 kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-ziifcoxnyascuayp] has joined #lisp 10:52:27 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 10:53:11 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:55:54 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:58:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-78.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:59:01 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 10:59:26 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 11:02:07 silenius [~silenius@e179083050.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:05:34 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:07:41 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:08:58 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-172.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:10:13 stardiviner [~Instantbi@115.237.159.169] has joined #lisp 11:11:51 Yuuhi`` [benni@pD9F98E8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:53 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 11:11:59 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:12:23 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has joined #lisp 11:13:39 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@pD9F9856F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:14:33 -!- stardiviner [~Instantbi@115.237.159.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:13 Tanami_ [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 11:20:42 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 11:20:45 kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d029a08.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:24 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:23:45 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 11:24:37 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:25:14 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:26:54 -!- Tanami_ [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:27:29 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:27:53 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 11:28:14 Tanami_ [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 11:29:14 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-4d029a08.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:29:39 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:30:43 hmph 11:32:06 hpmh 11:32:18 indeed! 11:33:01 setmeaway2 [stemearay@119.201.52.177] has joined #lisp 11:33:16 splendid! 11:33:30 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 11:33:39 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 11:35:25 zolk3ri: No "Pip, pip!" ? 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13:05:43 zorkmoid: a reader macro to make python/java style decorators/annotations 13:05:48 cl-annot 13:06:04 more like cl-abomination 13:09:12 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Ping timeout: 624 seconds] 13:09:54 Evilution. 13:10:21 anybody knows how to tell the new ASDF to get straight into the debugger at compile errors? 13:13:34 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 13:14:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:15:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:16:56 p_l: interesting 13:18:19 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-136-161.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:18:38 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 13:21:05 is it common to use @export? 13:22:10 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 13:22:44 Guest4117 [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 13:23:23 segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-134-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:11 daimrod [~daimrod@sbrk.org] has joined #lisp 13:24:16 -!- Guest4117 is now known as xristos` 13:24:34 -!- xristos` is now known as xristos 13:25:02 zorkmoid: nope 13:27:39 -!- antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:31:22 fsvehla [~fsvehla@77.116.247.38.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:32:01 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:32:18 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:37:59 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:38:42 zorkmoid: it's not common if you have to ask 13:39:13 true that ... 13:39:27 > i've recently seen people use @export 13:39:38 Who else other than m2ym? :) 13:40:43 Even he doesn't use it in optima. 13:45:06 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:45:16 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 13:48:19 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:49:19 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:49:26 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 13:50:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:52:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:53:03 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:55:12 SanderM [~quassel@195.169.108.147] has joined #lisp 13:56:06 i kinda like the idea ... though i don't understand why it is better than (export 'foo) 13:56:09 ogamita [~t@host.34.193.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com] has joined #lisp 13:56:33 Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has joined #lisp 13:59:27 zorkmoid: sugar. (export 'foo) looks so soviet 60's 13:59:57 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:00:03 -!- bitonic [~user@b0f86210.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:00:21 (export 'vodka) 14:00:24 you mean like when they launched the first man into space? 14:01:45 prxq: mm.. true.what about (export' foo)? :-) 14:02:19 Syntactically valid. 14:02:24 only if pronounced with explosive t 14:02:51 ogamita: yeah, i know. (i still end up using set' over setq ... go figure) 14:03:33 zorkmoid: for lexical variables? 14:03:36 really? 14:03:52 zorkmoid: yep, careful, setq and set' are not the same in CL. 14:03:58 ogamita: i know 14:04:08 :-) 14:04:15 it has bitten me once or twice .. 14:05:03 k0001 [~k0001@host169.190-137-205.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 14:06:00 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 14:06:15 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 14:06:24 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:07:04 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Client Quit] 14:07:27 zorkmoid: when do you use set' ? 14:09:03 (set' *print-case* :downcase) 14:10:01 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 14:10:16 i use set' for code-golfing, (set'* t) vs (setq * t) 14:11:02 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003512.pool.mediaways.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:12:14 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:40 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 14:13:36 prxq: ogamitas example was quite typical, find it easier on the fingers 14:13:48 prxq: gives the right hand a workout too 14:14:31 Interactively it's OK, but it wouldn't be good style in source files. 14:17:50 is there some deeper reason that i'm missing for why sbcl doesn't ignore the shebang line in the case of "myprogram.core --script < script.lisp"? I modified sbcl's process-script function to skip the shebang in the stdin case and it seems to work fine.. 14:17:57 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:18:31 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:42 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:19:38 -!- chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:19:55 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:20:16 chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 14:20:44 -!- chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:20:48 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:21:26 chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 14:21:29 -!- chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:06 ogamita: oh, didn't know that, just used to set' from my maclisp days in the stone ages 14:22:10 npoektop [~npoektop@91.206.116.254] has joined #lisp 14:22:16 chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 14:22:24 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 14:22:28 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 14:22:28 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:22:32 masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 14:22:32 -!- brain_shim [~brain_shi@108.162.181.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:22:42 -!- chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:44 maclisp didn't have lexical binding. CL has lexical binding, by default. 14:22:44 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@91.206.116.254] has left #lisp 14:23:05 yup 14:23:18 now to go home! 14:23:25 pve: why do you do so? myprogram.core --script script.lisp will just work 14:23:32 chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 14:24:41 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:21 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:13 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:27:32 -!- SanderM [~quassel@195.169.108.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:05 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 14:31:05 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 14:31:05 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:31:39 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 14:31:51 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-147-235.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:17 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:37:20 bitonic [~user@dyn1218-62.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:37:25 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.44.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:34 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:38:47 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:40:31 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-128-126.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:41:39 rmathews [~roshan@122.164.35.226] has joined #lisp 14:42:50 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:43:14 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:45:23 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:42 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF97DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:51:07 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:51:26 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:51 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:02 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:54:11 stassats: I don't do so. Was just curious.. the manual entry for --script implies that it might change in the future 14:55:12 stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:57 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 14:55:57 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 14:55:57 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:57:52 spaceships [~spaceship@host-72-174-137-126.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:04 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:59:38 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:18 -!- masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:01:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:01:49 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.176.46.39] has joined #lisp 15:01:49 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.176.46.39] has quit [Changing host] 15:01:49 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 15:01:55 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:03:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:03:27 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:11 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:07:09 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:08:30 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 15:09:14 npoektop_ [~npoektop@91.206.116.254] has joined #lisp 15:09:17 -!- npoektop_ [~npoektop@91.206.116.254] has quit [Client Quit] 15:09:26 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 15:10:18 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.87] has joined #lisp 15:10:24 -!- impomatic [~digital_w@87.113.152.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:13:40 hi all 15:15:56 ikki [~ikki@187.208.247.35] has joined #lisp 15:16:35 splittist [d4cb4e8a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.203.78.138] has joined #lisp 15:16:46 morning 15:16:48 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 15:19:13 morning 15:19:18 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@77.116.247.38.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 15:20:21 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 15:21:38 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:55 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:19 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:00 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:36 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:25:45 uris [~rguerra@200.123.210.2] has joined #lisp 15:25:58 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 15:26:43 nha [~prefect@rn-nat2-uw-129-97-124-212.net.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:27:41 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:28:57 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 15:28:57 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 15:28:57 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 15:30:30 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:31:44 Fare: hi! I'm playing with the new asdf and some of our kludgeries are broken... ping? 15:31:51 mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:32:03 pong 15:33:14 Fare: the docstring component-depends-on is inaccurate, it says it returns tuples of ( *), "where is a class designator", but I see a load-op instance there 15:33:25 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:33:37 Fare: on a higher level, what I need is a way to enumerate all the system dependencies 15:34:17 I need to update it 15:34:18 antgreen [~green@CPEf0def1ad1e4e-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:34:30 ok, so it's the docstring broken. I'll fix accordingly 15:34:42 that was true in ASDF 2.26 15:34:48 or at least in ASDF 1 15:35:07 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:35:17 find-operation and make-operation are your friends. 15:36:03 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:36:30 Fare: also note that (component-depends-on 'load-op (asdf/system:find-system :hu.dwim.wui)) returns a mixed list, where compile-op and prepare-op are symbols, and load-op are instances. may or may not be an issue... 15:36:55 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 15:37:34 not an issue 15:37:40 it's all operation designators 15:37:52 ok 15:38:05 and if you're going to use the new convenience methods, you can do (component-depends-on 'load-op :hu.dwim.wui) 15:39:06 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:40:54 *attila_lendvai* ignores backwards compatibility and runs ahead 15:42:36 Fare: I'm already using (component-depends-on 'load-op :hu.dwim.wui), but it returns all kind of operations, including prepare-op and compile-op. shall I collect all the listed systems and remove-duplicates at the end? 15:42:51 ok, fixed the docstring in my checkout. Will include in next commit. 15:43:03 (I don't usually commit just for docstring and comment updates) 15:43:18 what do you actually want to do? 15:43:37 I don't understand the end goal, so can't comment on the means. 15:44:21 are you looking for required-components? 15:44:50 or for traverse-sub-actions ? 15:45:33 "enumerate all the system dependencies" smells like required-components. 15:46:35 Fare: I have an iterate-system-dependencies, and its use we are talking about is to check whether all the dependent systems are already loaded. (if so, then it loads some extra swank integration systems) 15:47:03 oh. Smells like asdf-system-connections. 15:47:23 Which I fixed. I don't actually like the idea, but at least it's working now. 15:47:54 Fare: ah, I've seen something like that, it's the :weakly-depends-on? 15:48:01 I don't understand -- if a system is loaded, by construction all its required systems were loaded beforehand, too 15:48:16 no, I *hate* weakly-depends-on and I want it out of ASDF. 15:48:24 I think it's a conceptual bug. 15:48:37 Unlike asdf-system-connections, which isn't. 15:48:45 Fare: for a FOO system we optionally have FOO+SWANK systems (naming convention), which is loaded by our 'develop-op 15:48:49 I might not like it, but at least it doesn't break determinism. 15:48:54 k0001_ [~k0001@host232.190-224-54.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:49:18 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.86] has joined #lisp 15:49:28 weakly-depends-on does break determinism, and I'm definitely rooting out this evil (if I keep hacking ASDF at all) 15:49:29 ...and the toplevel entry point to this issue is find-and-load-swank-integration-systems 15:49:52 hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 15:49:52 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 15:49:52 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 15:49:53 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:49:58 *attila_lendvai* gave up on any kind of system-connection variants and uses explicit dependencies 15:49:58 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-147-235.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:50:39 oh, nice, only one user of it in quicklisp -- quick, let's kill it. 15:51:16 required-components is not good for me, I want to stay on the system level, not modules and components 15:52:49 Fare: component-loaded-p is not exported from asdf, only from asdf/operate:component-loaded-p. what's the deal here? shall I use the latter form? 15:52:57 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host169.190-137-205.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:55:19 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Brb, logging into to my Emacs session.] 15:56:20 I could export it, if you want. 15:57:20 will be exported in 2.30.3 15:57:22 just asking whether it's a policy question or just something overlooked 15:57:44 I didn't try hard to export new things, I admit. 15:57:51 I mainly focused on backward compatibility. 15:58:22 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF97DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:59:14 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-134-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 15:59:22 *attila_lendvai* usually commits trivial non-semantic changes with the commit log "housekeeping" 16:00:13 one man's non-semantic change is another man's only semantic change. 16:02:08 cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-187-225.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:03:03 hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 16:03:03 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:03:46 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:04:13 *attila_lendvai* meant whitespace and comment changes 16:04:42 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:05 S11001001 [~sirian@gw1.mcgraw-hill.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:32 -!- S11001001 [~sirian@gw1.mcgraw-hill.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:06:32 S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has joined #lisp 16:08:13 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-76-180-168-166.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 16:11:12 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11:20 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:11:33 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.63.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:11:43 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:12:48 -!- agumonkey [~agu@58.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:12:53 masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 16:13:24 attila_lendvai, also I didn't get your "(people should learn to NOT pull changes, or pull them together in waves)" comment 16:15:10 Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.55.194] has joined #lisp 16:16:31 Fare: I push a change in my lib. the change depends on a new asdf. if someone pulls my change, then I expect them to pull asdf and sbcl also at the same time, and then things will work 16:18:55 agumonkey [~agu@58.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:01 we help this process by tagging all our libs every once in a while with a tag whose name is '2013-02-21', in a state where they work together seamlessly 16:19:59 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:20:26 -!- hkBst__ is now known as hkBst 16:20:32 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:20:56 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:27 ok 16:23:28 attila_lendvai: you used hu.dwim.wui as an example a few lines back -- is that being resurrected? 16:24:28 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has joined #lisp 16:24:34 danlentz: it's been split into hu.dwim.web-server and hu.dwim.presentation 16:25:03 ok, thats what i've been working with. 16:27:38 -!- thoto_ [~thoto@e181162002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 16:27:46 -!- nha [~prefect@rn-nat2-uw-129-97-124-212.net.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:28:38 attila_lendvai: while i have your attention a quick question I like the hu.dwim.meta-model entity/relationship architecture quite a bit, but I seem to run into trouble with all of this authorization layer stuff. Is there a simple way to disable it entirely, or bypass it? 16:29:10 ubii_ [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has joined #lisp 16:29:23 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:29:55 -!- masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:30:04 danlentz, sorry I never replied to your comment 16:30:07 "yes that would be great" 16:30:11 danlentz: you can do something like this: (def method authorize-operation ((application blog-application) form) 16:30:11 (blog-authorization form)) 16:30:12 but instead of the function call, just return t 16:30:13 the problem is due to my not understanding it, but if it were out of the way until I had everything else dealt with it would make my life easier... 16:30:16 and "are you volunteering to do it?" 16:30:26 maybe even write an outline, and I can fill in the blanks 16:30:47 hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 16:30:47 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 16:30:47 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 16:30:53 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:54 danlentz: or do you need something lower level? 16:31:14 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Client Quit] 16:31:33 alagabes_ [~me@acyo111.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:31:37 fare: well, perhaps but i'm a bit behind on asdf these days. There is a lot I need to review tp get caught up. 16:33:01 well, that assumes i have an application object, which is ok but I was thinking of being free from that -- i.e., to use the entity model with weblocks for example 16:34:03 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.160] has joined #lisp 16:34:08 I seem to wind up causing perec to be unhappy when i go down that road 16:34:33 -!- alagabes [~me@dhy36.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:34:40 -!- ubii_ is now known as ubii 16:34:45 things deteriorate as a veer off the example of hu.dwim.wiki 16:35:21 are there any other example code other then hu.dwim.wiki and hu.dwim.home? 16:35:33 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-128-126.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:35:45 They're very helpful but of course more would be even better :) 16:36:17 I think I updated hu.dwim.blog also 16:36:27 danlentz: https://github.com/sionescu/iolib/blob/master/iolib.asd is a good example of advanced ASDF3 use 16:36:42 recently? 16:37:04 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-179-120.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:37:05 danlentz: I think the whole authorization stuff is only initiated by the presentation layer, so if you're planning to use a different web lib, then it's not an issue for you 16:37:08 fe[nl]ix: excellent thanks 16:37:25 danlentz: details here: http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi (not too recently) 16:37:50 -!- mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:38:16 masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 16:38:20 Fare: any idea on a way to require a minimum ASDF version in a .asd file ? 16:38:39 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.23.33.73] has joined #lisp 16:39:31 many ways 16:39:43 X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 16:40:06 do you want to support upgrading from asdf2 ? 16:40:15 what minimum version do you want? 16:40:20 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:40:38 no, just something that will unmistakeably signal an error on ASDF versions that don't support that operator at all 16:41:09 I want to specify that the syntax in that .asd file requires ASDF >= 2.29.8, for instance 16:41:10 attila_lendvai: The obstacle I've run into is when there is no authenticated session associated with some objects, trans actions begin failing 16:41:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:41:57 Fare: adding a versioned dependency in :depends-on or :defsystem-depends-on is not what I want, as that will trigger the loading of a possibly newer ASDF, if available in the load path 16:42:25 things work smoothly when I instantiate all model with the with-impoorted-technical-subject, and then further updates occur within an authenticated session 16:42:40 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:00 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 16:43:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:43:19 johnstorey [~johnstore@adsl-99-14-218-228.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:40 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:44:00 danlentz: hrm. maybe some objects inherit from audited-object, which requires a valid authenticated-session to register who changed them? 16:44:32 fe[nl]ix, asdf3 will *always* try to load a possibly newer ASDF. 16:44:45 if you don't want it, don't register it. 16:45:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:47 attila_lendvai: on another note, I put together a weblocks-perec driver (no entity model) which I have almost working -- I believe the issue is on weblocks side. http://github.com/danlentz/weblocks 16:46:18 attila_lendvai: yes, almost all of them in fact. even persistent-log 16:46:31 almost all of hu.dwim.model 16:46:45 persistent procs 16:46:55 all the good stuff 16:47:40 Fare: what do you mean it will always try to load a newer ASDF ? 16:47:55 just checking is (unless (or #+asdf3 (asdf/driver:version<= "2.29.2" (asdf-version))) (error "Yo mamma so fat")) 16:49:06 attila_lendvai: so is it possible to appease audited-object? If not, that at least solves any uncertainty I had about what was going on -- helpful in itself 16:49:07 danlentz: then just lie in some authenticated session somewhere, along the lines of the with-import-technical-subject... 16:49:23 Gertm [~Gertm@31.25.101.133] has joined #lisp 16:50:00 danlentz: if you just want to move on with a kludge, then just set *audit-changes* to nil 16:50:11 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:51:04 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:27 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:49 attila_lendvai: Ok, I will pursue that. Thanks. I've really enjoyed reading and cogitating on the hu.dwim code. There is still much more to learn from it :) 16:51:55 -!- S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:52:07 karswell [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:52:13 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.86] has joined #lisp 16:52:15 Fare: (asdf/driver:version<= "2.29.0" "2.29") => NIL 16:53:27 attila_lendvai: wow -- so simple Thanks very much! Glad I decided to ask! 16:53:27 Fare: I don't think I like the new auto-update behaviour 16:53:47 impaktor__ [~user@johnny.thep.lu.se] has joined #lisp 16:53:48 danlentz: that's really good to hear, because in our view there's a lot of value lying there dormant... :( we've only made two projects using the hu.dwim machinery and then momentum slowed down unfortunately. Levy is working on a structured editor, I'm planning to make a web backend for him, but no other plans... 16:54:11 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.23.33.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:54:35 danlentz: I didn't know either, forgot it. meta: I looked into the audited-object.lisp file and this variable was on the top... 16:55:01 fe[nl]ix, of course, the .0 is obviously later than not 16:55:23 fe[nl]ix, I don't like it either, but it's the only way to avoid upgrades mid-operation, which is a sure lose 16:55:33 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.160] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:55:56 Fare: what's obvious about it ? 16:56:08 fe[nl]ix, lexicographic order? 16:56:27 if you want to compare to 2.29, do 16:56:51 that's not the proper way to compare versions 16:57:02 what is? 16:57:11 that's the way asdf always did it 16:57:25 even debian might agree with it, in that subset of cases 16:57:31 hu.dwim is unlike anything else I've seen in terms of the depth and ambition of what it seeks to offer. It is one hell of a learning curve, though, which is why I think it isn't more widely appreciated. Its just so damn much to absorb... 16:57:32 well, I just found out that it's broken 16:57:48 Fare: AFAIK the debian spec says that missing version components must be considered 0 16:58:13 so 2.29 is synonymous to 2.29.0 and to 2.29.0.0 and so on 16:58:43 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 16:59:06 myx [~myx@pppoe-204-182-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:59:32 danlentz: we know, and due to the ambitious aims, it was changing shape way too fast with frequent refactorings to write any documentation. so we aimed for demo projects from the beginning, and put together the install guide to easily replicate hu.dwim.home from dwim.hu 16:59:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:01:20 attila_lendvai: Actually there was a bit of work needed to get the whole leviathan operational on my system -- darwin/sbcl. I have a nice little hu.dwim bootstrap now. 17:01:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:04:14 danlentz: if you have useful changes then patches are welcome! even kludgey ones... they will hopefully motivate some of us to clean them up... :) 17:04:20 attila_lendvai: some iolib troubles, get-monotonic-time issues, event-loop epoll/kqueue Nothing huge. 17:04:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.247.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:06:12 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:06:39 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.160] has joined #lisp 17:08:27 I'm heading bedwards... good night! 17:08:28 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:08:50 attila_lendvai: thanks again for the tips 17:09:02 danlentz: feel free to ping me here if you have questions. if longer ones then write to the perec list or me 17:09:19 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 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It is so easy to convert a function into a generic function specialized on T, then write a specialized version for that 1 odd-ball case. 18:54:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:54:39 -!- kiwnix [~egarcia@unaffiliated/kiwnix] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:56:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:02:03 johnstorey [~johnstore@adsl-99-14-218-228.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:27 -!- agumonkey [~agu@58.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:02:39 -!- johnstorey [~johnstore@adsl-99-14-218-228.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 19:03:38 agumonkey [~agu@78.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:11 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05:22 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:05 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 19:06:14 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:07:26 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 19:10:20 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host136.181-1-166.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:11:46 k0001 [~k0001@200.117.220.30] has joined #lisp 19:13:40 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 19:16:39 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 19:18:48 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.240.223.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:19:51 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:14 ikki [~ikki@201.124.58.194] has joined #lisp 19:22:45 cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD1F71.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:16 impomatic [~digital_w@87.115.103.37] has joined #lisp 19:26:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:27:57 pnpuff [~hypntango@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:29:32 antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has joined #lisp 19:29:53 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:30:18 pomysl [sirmacik@darkserver.it] has joined #lisp 19:30:18 -!- pomysl [sirmacik@darkserver.it] has quit [Changing host] 19:30:18 pomysl [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has joined #lisp 19:30:24 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.87.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:30:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.124.58.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:31:07 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:31:24 -!- sirmacik [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:31:24 -!- carleos [~carleos@cm-83-97-243-56.telecable.es] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:32:03 ikki [~ikki@201.124.58.194] has joined #lisp 19:32:05 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 19:34:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:38:57 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.211] has joined #lisp 19:39:35 Land of Lisp is today's O'Reilly deal of the day. 19:40:51 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:07 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.240.223.195] has joined #lisp 19:44:00 normanrichards [~normanric@adsl-99-35-123-238.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:09 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003512.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:17 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:44:52 carleos [~carleos@cm-83-97-243-56.telecable.es] has joined #lisp 19:45:36 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:46:15 *drewc* already owns that book and got it for a better price then most sales give :) 19:47:43 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:22 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48:32 adelgado: is that a good or a bad sign? 19:48:35 nha [~prefect@cn-nat2-uw-129-97-124-71.net.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 19:49:04 lol 19:49:15 any skeptics around ? 19:49:17 *ThomasH* was wondering the same thing. 19:49:19 waaahahahaha 19:49:21 prxq: I'd say good. They have daily ebook deals. It's not inventory reduction. 19:49:31 http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9781593272814.do?code=DEAL&cmp=gplus-npa-dotd-land-of-lisp 50% 19:49:55 mattrepl_ [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE.wireless.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:50:27 -!- mattrepl_ [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE.wireless.gmu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:31 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.219.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:50:56 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:24 mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.219.178] has joined #lisp 19:52:53 Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has joined #lisp 19:52:56 drewc: why a better price? ..maybe was an used book.. (: 19:55:03 pnpuff: no, it was not 'used' per se, though Conrad Barski probably had to 'use' it to autograph and send it to me ... but the $0 price is hard to beat! 19:56:22 *drewc* has a few lisp books, but the only one he 'bought' was PAIP at the MIT Coop. 19:58:32 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:59:54 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:01 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:00:02 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 20:00:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:02:32 drewc: I have no books so I have not to solve the book-stacking problem :) 20:02:37 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:21 pnpuff: no books at all? 20:03:33 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:05:50 pnpuff: I have very few books, most of which are not 'available' so I keep the books rather then the kindle that I use for most other things (pdfs help). But I do have more bookshelves aboard this yacht, so I may have to get more books! 20:06:54 Bike_ [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:55 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20:07:10 *ThomasH* envisions it keeling over from the weight. 20:07:21 drewc: so if I see your ship, I'll know on which side PAIP is? :) 20:07:39 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.124.58.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:08:46 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:28 -!- ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 20:11:48 -!- zeom [~zeom@unaffiliated/zeom] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:12:46 ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has joined #lisp 20:12:46 -!- ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has quit [Changing host] 20:12:46 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 20:13:07 brandonz [~brandon@c-24-6-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:34 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@adsl-99-35-123-238.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 20:13:39 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 20:14:25 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:14:49 mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.19] has joined #lisp 20:14:50 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.19] has quit [Changing host] 20:14:50 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:16:38 prxq: Starboard :) 20:16:46 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 20:17:19 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-204-182-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:17:38 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:57 ThomasH: meh ... the keel itself is probably around 20 tonnes ... if I had that many lisp books, well ... then I am doing something right/wrong :) 20:20:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:20:59 zeom 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Connection reset by peer] 21:21:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:21:55 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:25:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:28:54 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-140-203.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:29:29 kiwnix [~egarcia@unaffiliated/kiwnix] has joined #lisp 21:29:44 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0263.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:35:13 milanj [~milanj_@82.117.199.26] has joined #lisp 21:35:25 has anyone used cl-json, I need some help customizing it 21:35:29 dioxirane [~thermite@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 21:36:22 sure, what do you want to do? 21:36:53 yup I have ... though what do you want to ... ^W 21:36:54 when parsing a object, I want the key to be left as a string instead of it getting converted to a symbol 21:36:58 mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.219.178] has joined #lisp 21:38:12 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:17 *identifier-name-to-key*? 21:39:06 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:39:09 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.219.178] has quit [Client Quit] 21:39:17 leoc` [~leoc.git@p57B9ACBF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:42 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-140-203.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:19 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 21:43:18 -!- leoc [~leoc.git@p57B9BF7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:44:43 -!- dioxirane [~thermite@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 21:44:44 dioxirane [~thermite@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 21:44:58 (let ((Json:*identifier-name-to-key* 'identity)) (json:decode-json-from-string "{\"foo\": [1, 2, 3], \"bar\": true, \"baz\": \"!\"}")) => (("FOO" 1 2 3) ("BAR" . T) ("BAZ" . "!")) 21:45:13 not in the documentation that's online though, sucks 21:48:20 -!- dioxirane [~thermite@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 21:48:20 dioxirane [~thermite@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 21:49:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:49:38 thanks 21:50:33 -!- ehu [~ehu@93.82.250.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:51:16 hmm that does not quite work 21:51:32 (json:decode-json-from-string "{\"keyA\":1}") 21:51:32 (("KEY-A" . 1)) 21:51:54 what I would like to get is (("keyA" . 1)) 21:52:48 -!- dioxirane [~thermite@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:53:00 PuffTheMagic: also bind (json:*json-identifer-name-to-lisp* 'identity) 21:53:00 is cl-json or jsown better? 21:53:01 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:01 looks like i need to override json:*json-identifier-name-to-lisp* 21:53:04 PuffTheMagic: http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-json/ ... specifically *json-identifier-name-to-lisp* ? 21:53:59 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 21:54:24 dioxirane [~user@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 21:54:26 ahungry: i've always liked cl-json, mostly because of the json-rpc support and the clos support 21:55:05 On the subject of json, if I want to have an interactive web app using websockets with a lisp back end, cl-websockets and hunchensockets seems outdated a bit - I was thinking of just using socket.io as a pass through to send data to a listening tcp port lisp would be running - terrible idea or good idea? 21:55:23 (socket.io being that node.js project) 21:55:44 ubii_ [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has joined #lisp 21:55:46 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:10 neither of the common lisp websocket projects degrade like socket.io does either, and I'm not experienced enough to pick up and expand either project at this time 21:56:30 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:56:49 json being related as that is how I plan to take the data from web browser > socket.io server > lisp tcp server 21:57:06 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:14 -!- dioxirane [~user@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 21:58:14 dioxirane [~user@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 21:58:34 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-137-22.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:38 *drewc* sees json, socket.io, and apparently the lisp libs are not working at all because they are 'out of date' ... so can say "##javascript must exist!" 21:59:07 :P 21:59:33 lol 21:59:46 -!- dioxirane [~user@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 21:59:46 dioxirane [~user@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 22:01:13 *drewc* still uses ANSI common lisp, so is likely out of date himself ... Should he look in to C#, or Clojure? Scala? Gofer? :D 22:02:52 -!- dioxirane [~user@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 22:02:52 dioxirane [~user@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 22:03:04 mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE.wireless.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 22:04:56 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:07:31 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.2.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:07:50 Qworkescence` [~quad@173.252.71.1] has joined #lisp 22:10:19 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.2.108] has joined #lisp 22:10:58 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:10:59 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.66] has joined #lisp 22:11:04 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE.wireless.gmu.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:11:09 mattrepl_ [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE.wireless.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 22:12:01 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-140-203.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:12:25 Forty-Bot [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-75.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:10 -!- Forty-Bot is now known as Forty-3 22:14:10 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:15:47 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 22:16:05 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.247.35] has joined #lisp 22:19:13 -!- dioxirane [~user@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Quit: no brain to host] 22:23:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:23:57 -!- pomysl is now known as sirmacik 22:24:09 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:33 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:19 k0001 [~k0001@host64.190-137-206.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:33:25 -!- ubii_ is now known as ubii 22:35:35 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host169.186-108-162.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:38:10 lemonade` [~lemonade`@pool-71-178-51-174.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:12 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:39:59 -!- impomatic [~digital_w@87.115.103.37] has left #lisp 22:40:39 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:42:07 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:43:08 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-133-188.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:44:26 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:45:36 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:46:34 bitonic [~user@b0f86210.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 22:46:51 meyersh [~meyersh@198.102.147.253] has joined #lisp 22:46:51 -!- mattrepl_ [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE.wireless.gmu.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:43 masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 22:47:45 ldionmarcil [~user@dsl-216-221-52-122.mtl.contact.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:45 -!- ldionmarcil [~user@dsl-216-221-52-122.mtl.contact.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:47:45 ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 22:48:13 I've been monkeying around in Common Lisp and see that sb-ext:run-command allows me to specify an output stream. Other functions let me specify an input stream parameter. How can I create a stream for piping data in this way? 22:50:23 CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:50:34 meyersh: you can do :output :stream 22:51:59 -!- masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Client Quit] 22:53:39 -!- Qworkescence` is now known as Qworkescence 22:53:50 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@173.252.71.1] has quit [Changing host] 22:53:51 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 22:53:51 pve: How can I then pass `:stream` as a parameter in the next function? 22:54:48 meyersh: call sb-ext:process-output on the resulting process struct to get the output stream 22:58:56 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 22:59:03 pve: OK, I'll keep digging. Thanks! 22:59:18 meyersh: good luck 22:59:24 -!- meyersh [~meyersh@198.102.147.253] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:03:00 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 23:03:07 -!- agumonkey [~agu@78.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:06:42 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:07:43 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003512.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:08:26 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:33 -!- eichelbart [~eichelbar@91-66-228-114-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:40 mattrepl [~mattrepl@SSID-MASON-SECURE.wireless.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 23:18:42 -!- nha [~prefect@cn-nat2-uw-129-97-124-71.net.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:18:55 xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 23:25:23 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 23:26:46 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:06 Qworkescence` [~quad@173.252.71.2] has joined #lisp 23:28:18 -!- stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:28:20 -!- bitonic [~user@b0f86210.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:30:05 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:31:16 -!- Qworkescence` is now known as Qworkescence 23:31:20 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@173.252.71.2] has quit [Changing host] 23:31:20 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 23:32:07 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.160.221.231] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:32:32 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.200.27] has joined #lisp 23:34:01 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:34:44 -!- lemonade` [~lemonade`@pool-71-178-51-174.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 23:36:27 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 23:37:47 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:38:33 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.119] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:39:04 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:06 kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d029a08.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:26 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-172.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:45:19 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:15 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 23:50:07 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:54:50 bitonic [~user@b0f86210.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:00 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 23:59:03 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]