00:03:26 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 00:03:46 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 00:04:33 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:55 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:07 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:07:15 let's talk about locatives now 00:08:03 what do you have to say about them? 00:08:50 sb-locatives.lisp! 00:08:55 :) 00:09:56 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.107.55] has joined #lisp 00:10:41 doesthiswork: i don't really have a lot to say about them because i have never used them, but they are an interesting piece of common-lisp-like lisp history 00:10:43 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:11:05 drewc: yes? 00:11:30 *drewc* experiences discontinuity 00:11:40 Oh, god. I know how to build locatives in SBCL. 00:11:43 Please, shoot me now. 00:11:49 do it 00:11:52 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 00:11:58 In fact, I've already DONE it once. 00:12:02 then build trivial-locatives 00:12:29 nyef: I had to, for multiword compare-and-swap. 00:12:54 Mmm. Hold the base object plus an offset? 00:13:06 (for the slot, that is.) 00:13:22 Yup. We only CAS T primtypes, so that's taken care of. 00:13:46 Mmm. Had to do just that for load-time-value fixups in genesis/cold-init. 00:13:51 what are locatives? 00:14:16 Was one of the last things that had to go in before heap-relocation would work on cold-cores. 00:14:28 daimrod: first-class (setfable) places. 00:14:34 (Along with envectorizing the x86 code fixups at genesis time.) 00:15:54 You know, we could make locatives for specialized array elements, but it'd involve another level of indirection. 00:16:12 are locatives like pointers? 00:16:21 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.97.239] has left #lisp 00:16:34 Yes, locatives are like pointers, but GC-safe. 00:17:02 Whereas an arbitrary pointer into the heap is almost universally NOT GC-safe. 00:17:09 daimrod: yes. You could emulate them with a macro and get-setf-expansion but the goal is (usually) runtime efficiency. 00:18:08 codekoala [~wheaties@216.51.73.42] has joined #lisp 00:18:16 I see, thanks for the explanation. 00:19:21 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:23:59 bitonic [~user@b0f86210.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:42 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:25:50 slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 00:27:05 get-setf-expansion is pretty great 00:27:49 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 00:27:55 Mmm... multiple-value SETF... 00:28:37 so it would work something like, (get-locative place) gets you a locative object, and then (setf that-locative value) is like (setf place value)? 00:29:38 You'd probably want it to be (setf (locative-value place) value). 00:29:56 Err... not place, but that-locative. 00:29:57 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.107.55] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:06 And note that you can read from a locative as well as write. 00:30:06 ok. 00:30:15 -!- karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:30:20 bitonic` [~user@b0f86210.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 00:30:36 Otherwise, even with implementation-specific magic, it's hard to tell when you wish to modify the locative or what it points to. The chinual has more on the matter http://archive.org/details/bitsavers_mitcadrchialJan8313Locatives_139524 00:31:15 On the LispMs, locatives took up a single word in memory, but that basically took special GC support for it to work. 00:32:02 The interactions with cdr coding are awesomely ugly. 00:32:20 -!- bitonic [~user@b0f86210.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:32:30 karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:32:41 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 00:33:34 makunbound on arbitrary places, huh 00:33:36 Heh. Yeah, they tried a lot of awesomely crazy things back then, and not all of them were pretty. (-: 00:33:36 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-223-172-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 00:34:00 I still remember finding the "E lambda-list-keyword. 00:34:17 FEXPRs... because why not? (: 00:34:52 yes fexprs, 00:35:17 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:59 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 00:38:55 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:01 Posterdati [~antani@host160-215-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 00:40:14 Okay, I need to go find food. I'm sure that I'll be back again at some point, but probably not on this side of sleep. 00:40:17 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-76-119-183-159.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 00:42:14 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:42:40 sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:13 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:49:05 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:50:40 redline6561: it is interesting 00:57:49 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 01:01:02 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-105-186.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:03:01 francisl [~flavoie@69.159.112.100] has joined #lisp 01:04:19 -!- francisl [~flavoie@69.159.112.100] has quit [Client Quit] 01:05:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:07:41 Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:51 rmathews [~roshan@122.164.215.9] has joined #lisp 01:08:07 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:08:22 Is there a way do masked password inputs with standard *io-query*? 01:09:38 -!- agumonkey [~agu@58.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:12:16 Bike: here's my implementation of locatives and example use: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/lisp-random/src/46bd993571001e3bcc64849b42870ac5e203efc5/locative.lisp?at=default 01:13:32 Quadrescence: you probably want &optional for the store vars. 01:15:00 can't you use define-setf-expansion for (setf dereference) 01:16:46 pkhuong: you mean (&optional ,@store-vars) ? 01:17:42 Quadrescence: right. 01:19:49 Bike: define-setf-expander? yeah i think so 01:20:16 reconstructing everything I deconstructed 01:22:35 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-013.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 01:24:34 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:25:11 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.157.18] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:26:05 -!- setmeaway2 [~setmeaway@118.45.149.239] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28:03 Guthur: no 01:28:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-013.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:28:14 Guthur: you have to use extra-standard stuff. 01:28:45 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-013.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 01:28:57 Xach: are there any pre rolled solutions you know of, or will I need to roll my own? 01:30:12 If there is even a LispWorks specific solution I would be interested 01:30:32 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:30:43 Guthur: I'm not sure, sorry. I know CLISP has some stuff along those lines built-in. 01:31:12 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:31:29 -!- spaceships [~spaceship@host-72-174-137-126.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:31:40 ok, thanks though, you've gave me hope that there might be something buried in the documentation 01:31:47 spaceships [~spaceship@host-72-174-137-126.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:47 -!- spaceships [~spaceship@host-72-174-137-126.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:32:13 spaceships [~spaceship@host-72-174-137-126.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-013.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:37:58 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-016.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 01:43:48 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:44:06 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:45:20 lisp-hug is insanely helpful 01:48:57 kcj_ [~casey@122-60-59-140.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:50:57 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:53:54 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:04 Xach: is that just a general observation, or did you find some juicy meat 01:56:26 Quadrescence: the discussion over the last couple days has been pretty uplifting 01:56:33 but it's also a general observation 01:56:43 setmeaway [stemearay@118.45.149.239] has joined #lisp 02:00:06 also, for guthur, if he's using lispworks and wants a friendly ear 02:01:13 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:01:15 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:12 Xach: where is that fabled lisp hug? 02:02:27 I constantly fell like I want to give lisp hugs. 02:03:15 get braces and hug some friends 02:06:11 antifuchs: the Harlequin User Group list is still going strong at lispworks 02:06:19 oho ((: 02:06:57 a guy basically wrote "hi y'all i want to like lisp is it awesome y/n" and got flooded with "boy is it EVER" from really smart folks 02:07:17 that's amazing (: 02:09:12 ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.79] has joined #lisp 02:09:17 -!- kcj_ [~casey@122-60-59-140.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:36 for the curious, lisp-hug can be browsed here, http://news.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.lispworks.general/ 02:12:11 "on the road to replacing C++" is the thread but others are related 02:12:51 lisp hug? 02:13:10 Guthur: the lispworks user group support mailing list 02:13:32 ah, might be worth a shot 02:13:57 I'm not a long time lispworks user, but we use it at work so... 02:14:03 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.240.179.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:14:10 Xach: "transpiler" 02:14:18 where do we target the ion cannon? 02:14:28 hahaha 02:17:06 Guthur: they are so helpful 02:17:54 *Xach* uses lispworks at work and looks forward to getting to mail lisp-hug as a customer rather than an observer 02:19:48 yes lispworks support is pretty good 02:20:03 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 02:24:16 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:24:42 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.18.40] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 02:25:14 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-182-196.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:26:11 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 02:29:35 cfy` [~ilisp@220.191.186.26] has joined #lisp 02:32:28 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:32:44 mathslinux [~user@221.122.32.18] has joined #lisp 02:33:11 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-105-186.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 02:33:32 The on the road to C++ thread is great. Viewing David McClain's buttefly slides now... 02:33:48 -!- carleos [~carleos@cm-83-97-243-56.telecable.es] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:34:13 carleos [~carleos@cm-83-97-243-56.telecable.es] has joined #lisp 02:36:37 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: bleeding] 02:40:19 dnolen` [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:40:33 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:45:38 -!- bitonic` [~user@b0f86210.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:46:45 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:52:52 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.165.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:59:44 Hello everyone, I'm starting out with the gigamonkeys book, and I'm in Chapter 3. When I evaluate the dump-db function, it comes back with an error debug(error (wrong-type-argument stringp t)) 02:59:51 Here's what I'm looking at: https://www.google.com/search?q=you+can+still+dunk+in+the+dark&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a 03:00:01 I'm not sure... what/where I'm messing up 03:00:43 agumonkey [~agu@58.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:46 knob: that is an emacs lisp error, not a common lisp error 03:01:57 Oh! 03:02:06 Ok... I see. 03:02:09 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 03:02:19 Hm... Ok ok.. Let me see how I route around it 03:02:26 Thank you for the insight =) 03:07:35 -!- agumonkey [~agu@58.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:08:12 knob: did you post the wrong link/ 03:08:20 Ok, I went back on the book, and it suggests using Lisp in a Box.... 03:08:31 Damn, doesthiswork, yet I did... something unrelated 03:08:37 sorry about that... correct link is::: 03:09:12 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-a-simple-database.html 03:09:43 So, question: The author suggests Lisp in a Box... I'm kind of list as to SLIME and what not 03:09:48 *kind of lost 03:10:22 did you download lisp in a box? 03:10:32 No... 03:10:37 1st link in google, I'm still reading it 03:10:45 something about... Quicklisp? 03:10:58 I initially (2 hours ago) started the book using emacs straight 03:11:10 yet apparently I'm missing something... so SLIME? 03:11:34 the lisp that emacs is written in is a different language than common lisp 03:12:43 Ahh... so, I should try... Lisp in a Box? 03:12:54 Or if I install SLIME, will I be where I "should" be? 03:13:29 you would need to download a lisp implementation (which lisp in a box has) 03:14:22 Ok... I'm checking lisp in a box now... 03:18:20 -!- koisoke_ [xef4@epilogue.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:25:18 -!- mathrick is now known as badbot 03:25:55 -!- badbot is now known as mathrick 03:26:01 knob: did it work? 03:26:09 Almost there! =D 03:26:17 I downloaded it for a linux virtual machine I have 03:26:41 the previous one was freeBSD, and it looked a little bit complicated for fBSD, so I just went with linux 03:26:55 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.215.9] has quit [Quit: ...] 03:27:01 now I'm re-writing the excercises of Chapter 3, and I will be finding out if it works in a couple of minutes! =) 03:27:04 Thanks doesthiswork ! 03:27:48 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [] 03:28:03 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:30:37 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.79] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:31:28 knob: fwiw, I think quicklisp makes lispbox fairly redundant. Once you have a CL implementation and emacs, quicklisp can download/load libraries, but also install slime. 03:31:29 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-173-228-241-65.prtc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:31:42 ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.79] has joined #lisp 03:31:45 -!- Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:32:18 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-013.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 03:33:57 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:33 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:34:47 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:28 koisoke [xef4@epilogue.org] has joined #lisp 03:37:02 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:38:00 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-013.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:38:32 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-013.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined 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[~hpd@188.40.236.6] has joined #lisp 05:24:27 is there a strategy for using a generic function that would operate on something other than a struct or a clos instance? 05:24:44 a generic function that would operate on a plist 05:25:14 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:25:27 you can specialize on con. 05:25:30 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:25:57 I'm not sure what that means and am using google now 05:26:13 on cons, sorry. 05:28:27 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:30:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:35:14 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 05:35:31 duko: Generic functions distinguish classes, not types. 05:35:47 duko: What is (class-of '(a b c d)) ? 05:36:18 I'm not too familiar with lisp to answer that, "T"? 05:36:31 T is not a class. 05:36:56 I read that objects inherit from 'T' class recently 05:37:07 Where did you read that? 05:37:09 but I believe you 05:37:21 I'm trying to find that link now. 05:37:50 in addition to standard-classes (clos) and structure-classes there are also built-in-classes, like cons 05:38:17 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/object-reorientation-generic-functions.html 05:38:42 'Thus, every datum in Common Lisp is an instance of *T*.' 05:38:55 Ah, they have a T class as well as type. 05:38:57 yes, but they're instances of more specific classes as well 05:39:30 and class-of returns what class the thing is a /direct/ instance of, so it won't be T. 05:39:42 my second guess would be "list" 05:39:56 list is a type. cons is a class. 05:40:08 hm cons 05:40:10 oh, list is also a class, well, it should still be cons. 05:43:28 I can't think of why they have a list class as well as a cons class, given the definition of the list class. 05:45:21 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:45:34 to make it easier to define methods on conses and null at once, i guess. 05:46:09 slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 05:46:14 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.161.7] has quit [Quit: Bye] 05:47:42 Makes sense. 05:47:50 I did not communicate correctly. 05:48:05 -!- paul0 [~paul0@177.96.50.145] has quit [Quit: paul0] 05:48:05 I do not want to write a method that specializes on cons 05:48:50 but instead I want methods of the same name that operate on plists and return a different result 05:49:14 plists are conses. 05:49:44 yes but I don't want all plists to be handled in the same way 05:50:24 Then do your own dispatching 05:51:19 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 05:52:25 akovalen` [~user@95.73.121.213] has joined #lisp 05:53:20 nightfly: thank you 05:53:35 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:10 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.72.173.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:55:54 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:56:21 Or wrap them in a class. 05:56:51 It's unfortunate that the difference between a list and a plist is purely structural, perhaps. 05:59:26 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:00:05 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:01:36 paul0 [~paul0@177.96.50.145] has joined #lisp 06:01:43 -!- spaceships [~spaceship@host-72-174-137-126.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:02:04 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 06:05:44 Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has joined #lisp 06:06:33 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 06:11:01 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.94.103] has joined #lisp 06:18:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:19:08 yacks 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09:19:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.16] has joined #lisp 09:19:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.16] has quit [Changing host] 09:19:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:19:50 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.93.136] has joined #lisp 09:21:27 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 09:21:46 good morning zorkmoid 09:22:24 good midnight 09:26:52 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:26:53 morphling [~stefan@95.117.122.9] has joined #lisp 09:27:23 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-017-076.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:58 ehu [~ehu@93.82.250.14] has joined #lisp 09:30:36 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:31:06 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp-217-10-wifi.yandex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:02 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 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peer] 09:56:42 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp-217-10-wifi.yandex.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:55 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59:51 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:59:53 -!- springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:00:08 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-76-183.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:03:40 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp-217-10-wifi.yandex.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:03:58 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp-217-10-wifi.yandex.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:53 browndawg [~browndawg@117.208.67.168] has joined #lisp 10:07:58 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:33 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-177.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:09:38 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-240-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 10:10:33 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:13:22 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 10:13:22 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 10:13:22 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:14:31 it is a pitty that (almost?) all cl implementations requrie a C compiler sighs .. 10:15:01 Why? 10:16:09 i am trying to forget C .. 10:16:37 You seem to be having success with spelling and grammar. 10:16:38 zorkmoid: under normal conditions, you wouldn't even notice 10:16:56 Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:45 Zhivago: sorry? 10:17:54 prxq: not normal conditions today :( 10:17:58 With forgetting. 10:18:32 Frankly, the only time it would be an issue is in some misguided bare-metal tangent. 10:19:13 Zhivago: nothing to do with that, maybe you could be nicer instead of assuming sillyness. 10:19:33 So, what is it to do with? Apart from attempting amnesia? 10:19:33 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 10:19:36 zorkmoid: you are feeding a troll 10:19:42 prxq: ah, ok. 10:19:49 zorkmoid is the troll in this case. 10:20:11 Try to be rational. :) 10:22:18 -!- ehu [~ehu@93.82.250.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:22:26 prxq: i am trying to fix parts of cmucl's kernel, which are horribly slow in a application that i am working on. 10:22:48 Zhivago: please be nicer, you are extremley rude. 10:23:03 zorkmoid: Where have I been rude? 10:23:29 Zhivago: calling people names is rude. 10:23:44 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 10:23:53 discussing Zhivago's manners is off topic in #lisp 10:24:19 Do you disagree with having it pointed out that you're trolling? Your reason for wishing that almost all CL implementations didn't require a C compiler is that you are trying to forget C. 10:24:36 Or is there some other name you are imagining that I have called you? 10:25:04 H4ns: calling people names is on topic then? seriously? 10:25:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:25:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.16] has joined #lisp 10:25:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.16] has quit [Changing host] 10:25:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:25:57 zorkmoid: Zhivago is on topic, by definition and channel presence. it is just pointless to discuss his manners. 10:26:04 Zhivago: C is a terrible language, it is prone to bugs, and it is hard to write sensible code in it. 10:26:09 zorkmoid: he is always right. just assume that, it will make everyone happier. 10:26:15 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 10:26:24 zorkmoid: So, what name is it that you believe I have called you? 10:26:31 heh. 10:26:48 Zhivago: you know perfectly well what you wrote, i fail to see why i should entertain your whims. 10:27:04 zorkmoid: Well, I'll put that down to more trolling, then. 10:27:11 zorkmoid: good point. just stop. 10:28:44 <|3b|> zorkmoid: running on C-based OSes makes it less useful to try to avoid C for lisp compilers 10:29:26 |3b|: i disagree, it allows for better optimizations in lisp, and easier tweaking/testing. 10:29:39 <|3b|> zorkmoid: avoiding C does? 10:29:45 zorkmoid: any reason you have to use cmucl? 10:30:00 prxq: oh, none really, i prefer it, been using it since god knows when.. 10:30:19 <|3b|> seems like that would just end up with replacing it with asm or some lisp variant at a similar level of abstraction to C 10:31:10 Well, you could always use js-asm. 10:31:17 prxq: like somewhere around when it was spice lisp ... 10:31:22 *|3b|* wouldn't mind having a low-level CL variant, but doesn't seem like a good use of limited compiler-dev resources when we already have c compilers with lots of resources behind them 10:32:59 |3b|: it doesn't have to be that low level 10:34:34 prxq: so yeah, that is the only reason really .. got alot of cmucl specific hacks to, sbcl seems nice but sometimes you've gotta just work. 10:35:37 <|3b|> zorkmoid: to implement efficient GC and OS interfaces? 10:36:14 Lisp got to where it is today by not playing well with others. 10:37:41 |3b|: yup 10:38:09 <|3b|> well, implement it and make it fast so i can use it :p 10:38:38 haha 10:39:01 <|3b|> then port cmucl and sbcl to it :) 10:39:47 somehow i prefer spice lisp's code over cmucl ... 10:40:24 |3b|: I sent you something related to this in PM / msg, if you're interested. 10:41:01 *|3b|* doesn't actually need c-level code at the moment, aside from for interfacing to C 10:41:42 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:02 http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/cmu/Spice_Lisp-Internal_Design.pdf 10:42:06 lovley stuff.. 10:42:15 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:47:18 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:49:15 myx [~myx@pppoe-204-182-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 10:50:15 bitonic` [~user@b0f86210.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 10:51:16 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:52:12 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:54:39 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 10:56:14 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 10:56:19 leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.63.179] has joined #lisp 11:00:30 ICU [~ICU@219.234.152.2] has joined #lisp 11:03:54 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:10:38 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp-217-10-wifi.yandex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:59 zorkmoid: cmucl evolved from the source base of spice lisp. 11:20:34 agumonkey [~agu@86.72.217.58] has joined #lisp 11:20:41 zorkmoid: oh you know that. Well, that's a long time indeed 11:25:46 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@76.21.4.232] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:26:56 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:101:f53a:43a5:2fb0:9f3a] has joined #lisp 11:27:29 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-25-141.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:28:42 -!- Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:28:46 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:29:54 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Quit: ...] 11:30:02 silenius [~silenius@g226049136.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:30:17 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-191-122.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 11:30:34 Urfin [~user@213.57.184.226] has joined #lisp 11:33:46 leoc [~leoc.git@p57B9B88D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:56 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 11:34:18 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:34:53 -!- mathslinux [~user@221.122.32.18] has left #lisp 11:35:02 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:35:37 *zolk3ri* brofists stassats 11:37:19 I hope stassats appreciates the fisting he's getting. 11:39:38 segv- [~mb@94.222.240.212] has joined #lisp 11:43:52 ikki [~ikki@187.208.191.101] has joined #lisp 11:49:59 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 11:50:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 11:51:28 prxq: yup 11:51:45 prxq: which in turn is decendant from maclisp 11:55:23 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-017-076.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:56:49 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f731cd4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:04 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-191-122.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:07 Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:02:59 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping 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[c2ed8e15@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.21] has joined #lisp 13:59:10 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 13:59:29 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.218.23] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:59:43 cmm [~cmm@109.65.218.23] has joined #lisp 13:59:43 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:05 bah, this unix stuff is still ... i give up for now. 14:05:06 Straylight [~user@test8.expressionanalysis.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:58 kiwnix [~egarcia@unaffiliated/kiwnix] has joined #lisp 14:09:10 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:09:14 -!- cfy` is now known as cfy 14:09:16 -!- cfy [~ilisp@115.195.178.181] has quit [Changing host] 14:09:16 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 14:09:31 linse [~marioooh@70.55.61.9] has joined #lisp 14:11:00 fsvehla [~fsvehla@chello084112185050.3.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 14:11:11 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has 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#lisp 14:22:44 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:24:26 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.134.85] has joined #lisp 14:24:37 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f731cd4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:09 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.48.54] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 14:27:33 wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-96-126.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:27:37 hi 14:27:51 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:28:20 say, can I stop slime from auto-completing pathnames absolutely. 14:28:55 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:28:59 e.g. #p"f -> #p"foo" instead of #p"/bar/foo" 14:29:08 its a minor issue 14:29:31 wakeup: annoys me, too. 14:29:36 but somewhat unneccecary 14:30:49 also: other ways to call ,cd (shortcuts) from the lisp directly? 14:32:24 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 14:33:15 wakeup: (swank:set-default-directory ...) 14:34:05 wakeup: (after you invoke any repl shortcut, it gets into REPL history where you can see how to invoke it in lisp) 14:34:53 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:35:14 ok 14:36:04 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:36:16 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:18 I am getting the feeling that email is dead 14:36:25 -!- lusory_ [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:34 I'm implementing #n= and #n# and I've seen two ways to implement it and I wonder if anyone has thoughts on which is better. 14:36:49 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 14:37:05 Many of the mime related libs in CL are utterly broken or just horrible... 14:37:22 drmeister: which ways? 14:37:25 In one implementation I've seen they maintain a *sharp-equal* alist that maps "n" to objects and #n# just returns those mapped objects. 14:37:59 In the other implementation they maintained a pair of *sharp-equal* and *sharp-sharp* alists. 14:38:43 They substituted GENSYMs into the read objects as they encountered #n='s and then at the end of the read-lisp-object they walked the object and replaced all the GENSYMs with objects. 14:38:47 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 14:38:47 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 14:38:47 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:39:32 wakeup: it probably does not lie in the scope of interest of anyone in the CL community. 14:40:04 drmeister: i think i prefer the first one, seems simpler, and cleaner 14:40:05 The first implementation was simpler and I didn't understand why the second implementation was more complicated. Often though, when faced with two choices like this, there is a good reason for what the more complicated implementation is doing. 14:40:09 prxq: hu? 14:40:11 When you search cliki for MIME, or quoted-printable, you will eventually be lead to CL-MIME which uses cl-qprint, or cl-qprint directly. Who would anticipate that CL-QPRINT never worked in the first place... 14:40:32 wakeup: you can stop the whining anyways 14:40:36 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 14:40:41 MIME4CL on the other hand is unportable 14:40:46 wakeup: cl-mime works fine for me. if it does not for you, maybe you want to fix it. 14:41:13 H4ns: I am not whining I am reporting, I fixed CL-QPRINT and contacted the author 14:41:21 wakeup: I'm writing a CL implementation that easily interfaces to C++ code. You can then implement a bridge to any C++ mime library. 14:41:34 wakeup: you're whining here. 14:41:40 drmeister: which implementations did you look at? 14:42:08 H4ns: How am I whining. 14:42:16 can you both drop it? 14:42:32 Try handling quoted-printable encoded mail with cl-mime 14:42:45 you just learned that it doesn't work, thanks to me 14:42:51 you're welcome 14:43:13 Well, the second more complicated implementation was in SACLA (CL written in CL). But this morning while I was waiting for coffee I pulled up what I thought was the SACLA reader.lisp code on my phone and I read the simpler implementation. Perhaps they are two generations of SACLA implementations? I haven't investigated deeper yet. 14:43:21 the patch will be out soon, I will come here again and tell you when its ready 14:43:42 how noble 14:44:25 sykopomp: sorry but I find it harsh to be accused for whining when I try to improve the library situation (cooperatively) 14:44:25 drmeister: have you looked at cmucl or something else? 14:44:26 sykopomp: well, he fixed it. Seems ok for me 14:44:51 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.26.26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:45:49 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.26.26] has joined #lisp 14:46:00 drmeister: FFIs could be a way out, but since MIME is like the oldest standard around and a central protocol of the internet, I think the CL libs should be made at least to work correctly. 14:46:05 zorkmoid: No, I hadn't yet. I'll check and see if they give more explaination. 14:46:22 i think the constant bothering of people of off-topicness is far more annoying than the occassional off-topic comment. 14:46:42 but anyway, gotta fix a bug. 14:47:12 drmeister: i think it might be better to look at a "real" cl than sacla, which is nice and all, but the real ones have things for a reason.. 14:47:27 zorkmoid: Point taken. 14:47:37 drmeister: MIME is not even that hard, just a bunch of encoding rfc's 14:48:31 does anyone know who maintains CL-POP? 14:48:35 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:48:46 drmeister: still interested in a copy of the code! even if wip and all 14:48:47 drmeister: sbcl seems quite well commented. 14:50:26 wakeup: it would be really great if you could get a good CL mime lib to work 14:50:36 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.134.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:51:09 prxq: I'm downloading it. I lost my sbcl install when I purged my Download directory a few days ago to recover disk space. 14:52:53 prxq: On my todo list are: fixing cl-rfc2047, cl-qprint, adding SSL/TLS to cl-pop. I won't touch the MIME libs unless necesarry. Using CL-MIME currently, it's a total piece of shit (sorry), but as long as it works... I have already fought my fight with the non existant API... 14:53:47 of course a MIME lib doesn't do much besides gluing the encodings together 14:54:06 when the encoding libs are solid a mime lib is somewhat easy 14:54:14 wakeup: are you tweaking things for some other project, or just annoyed at the state? 14:54:26 zorkmoid: both :) 14:54:50 there is MIME4CL which I couldn't get to run on CCL 14:55:04 coolies 14:55:04 maybe that will save all once it's portable 14:56:11 I have written a simple email client for my personal use. 14:56:53 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:15 stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:02 I suffer from severe stubborness... so I am implementing all sorts of classic components no one will ever care about, like a HTTP/1.0 server. But hey at least I learn a lot and maybe fix a few CL libs on the way 14:58:42 The problem is with all the authors not answering I now got more patches on my hand than libraries I want to maintain... 14:59:27 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-211-2.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:59:37 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:57 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:01:35 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:56 I should contact Franz Inc. about CL-QPRINT 15:02:17 (sigh) SBCL uses the more complicated implementation and maintains *sharp-equal-alist* (map of GENSYMs to objects) *sharp-sharp-alist* (map of #n# n to GENSYM) and another *sharp-equal-circle-table* that I don't yet understand. This stuff is not for resolving forward references because forward references are not standard CL. 15:02:48 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:03:12 I saw someone recently posted that they had fixed SBCL's reader to use hash-tables rather than alists for #n= and #n#. Does anyone here remember this? 15:03:32 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.12] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:57 I mean someone recently (a few weeks ago) wrote in this channel that they had fixed SBCL's reader to use hash-tables rather than alists for #n= and #n#. 15:04:58 setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.12] has joined #lisp 15:06:06 replcated [~user@static-241-143-171-68.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:39 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.134.85] has joined #lisp 15:07:12 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.63.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:08:02 alagabes_ [~me@adfe31.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:08:43 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-211-2.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:09:33 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-179-140.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:09:52 ehu [~ehu@93.82.250.14] has joined #lisp 15:09:54 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:17 bitonic [~user@b0f86210.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 15:11:20 -!- alagabes [~me@adt53.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:11:46 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:13:34 drmeister: #=/## can create circular data. The tree walk that replaces gensyms with objects must be aware of that. 15:13:44 Ok, no-problem. I figured out how SBCL handles #n= and #n#. 15:17:16 slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 15:20:40 -!- zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:24 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 15:22:23 zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 15:24:33 pkhuong: Why is a tree walk required rather than #n# just returning the object that #n= associates it with. 15:25:32 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 15:25:59 -!- linse [~marioooh@70.55.61.9] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 15:27:11 drmeister: circular data. 15:28:20 pkhuong: Ok. I'll take the SBCL approach. 15:28:59 #1=#(#1#) 15:31:09 browndawg [~browndawg@117.208.67.168] has joined #lisp 15:32:14 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:33:27 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:44 drmeister: seriously, any code one can look at? this all sounds to much fun. :-) 15:34:47 nha [~prefect@cn-nat2-uw-129-97-124-71.net.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:34:48 nha_ [~prefect@cn-nat2-uw-129-97-124-71.net.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:35:11 Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has joined #lisp 15:37:02 Oh, a friend of mine mentioned: http://www.secureoutcomes.net/Employment.html if anyone is looking for a job... 15:37:07 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 15:38:05 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 15:38:05 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:31 -!- Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:38:46 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 15:39:03 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:39:46 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has left #lisp 15:42:05 -!- masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:42:19 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.240.179.192] has joined #lisp 15:42:33 masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 15:45:19 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:46:40 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:47:28 -!- nha_ [~prefect@cn-nat2-uw-129-97-124-71.net.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: lockups are like pokemon.] 15:47:53 zorkmoid: My student and I are refactoring the build system and I'm working on getting all of ECL's CLOS code running. I'd love to have you and others to take a look at it and perhaps help us improve it but we don't have all our ducks in a row to release it now. 15:49:59 on the topic of #n#, I've been wondering why forward references are not allowed 15:50:17 drmeister: What exactly are you working on? Have you taken a look at XCL? 15:50:26 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-96-126.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:51:37 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:07 -!- alagabes_ [~me@adfe31.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:37 -!- kubatyszko [~kubatyszk@pd8465f.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:57:59 wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-75-199.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:58:45 cdidd [~cdidd@89.178.199.63] has joined #lisp 16:00:18 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:04:28 I'm thinking maybe it's because a #n# could appear within another read macro, but I'm not sure what the reader even does in that situation 16:06:02 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:10 -!- Straylight [~user@test8.expressionanalysis.com] has left #lisp 16:08:33 -!- Urfin [~user@213.57.184.226] has quit 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[~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:11:45 mon_key`` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:47 -!- mon_key` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:14:24 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:45 -!- masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:16:48 hrm, does CFFI not support struct bit fields? (different from defbitfield) 17:18:06 oGMo: bitfields tend to be compiler-specific. 17:19:03 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:19:23 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:12 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.87.26] has joined #lisp 17:20:46 i was under the impression the ABI is well-defined per arch .. maybe not on x86? 17:20:58 oGMo: not for bitfields 17:21:36 oGMo: bitfields are historically non-portable. On some archs there may be de-facto standards now, but I couldn't say for sure 17:21:59 If you want portable code, you use unsigned ints and masks. 17:22:01 of course they are well defined 17:22:07 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:22:14 it's not defined in C, but it's certainly defined in every arch's ABI. 17:23:18 foom: yeah, but not all compilers implement the ABIs in the same way. PowerPC, for example, requires all structs to be passed on the stack, but many compilers ignore that for bitfields small enough to fit in a register 17:23:19 foom: yeah that's what i thought and that's what i'm seeing at least for x86_64/arm/ppc 17:23:52 er s/stack/as pointers/; it doesn't actually require the struct to be on the stack. 17:23:59 jasom: "PowePC" doesn't require anything, but the platform ABI does. 17:24:57 foom: compilers often improperly implement the platform ABI; bitfields are a part where they most often get it wrong. 17:25:04 then that's a broken compiler 17:25:27 Yes. 17:25:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.217.92] has joined #lisp 17:25:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.217.92] has quit [Changing host] 17:25:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:26:08 well you can pretend that compilers aren't broken, or you can write code that works with existing compilers; your choice. 17:26:20 ... 17:27:32 It might be the case that a platform's ABI is not what is written down in the ABI document. 17:27:38 But there is an ABI, and it defines how bitfields work. 17:28:05 it is reasonably easy to generate and compile C code that gives you the bit fields via FFI 17:28:24 I did something like that a while ago 17:28:39 It would also be reasonably easy for CFFI to support bitfields directly. 17:28:56 (And just like all parts of structure layout, it's going to be platform specific) 17:29:54 -!- replcated [~user@static-241-143-171-68.axsne.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:28 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f731cd4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:48 -!- am0c [~am0c@182.221.131.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:32:35 brandonz [~brandon@206.169.144.70] has joined #lisp 17:33:13 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:33:29 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:24 quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:52 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:38:19 pnpuff [~HCN@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:45:03 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757a09.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:45:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:45:28 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:47:58 ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.209] has joined #lisp 17:48:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.217.92] has joined #lisp 17:48:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.217.92] has quit [Changing host] 17:48:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:55:34 sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-018.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:56:52 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:57:09 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:58:15 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-022.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:58:20 -!- ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.209] has left #lisp 17:59:36 -!- pnpuff [~HCN@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:59:59 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 18:02:50 pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:04:42 Hrmm  did pcos forget to `darcs add closer-abcl.lisp`? 18:05:08 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:05:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:06:12 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:07:06 ASau [~user@46.115.44.151] has joined #lisp 18:07:20 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:07:41 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 18:08:30 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:09:02 doesthiswork [~Adium@75.87.251.5] has joined #lisp 18:12:49 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:20 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.208.67.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:17:06 Thra11_ [~thrall@46.208.144.180] has joined #lisp 18:19:36 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.87.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:19:45 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-012.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:24:11 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 18:24:53 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33:35 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.159.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:51 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 18:35:43 androcles [~Jeff@sporkula.ss.uci.edu] has joined #lisp 18:36:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:37:17 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-223-223-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:37:53 -!- brain_shim [~brain_shi@108.162.181.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:38:25 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:38:33 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:38:36 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:40:42 It's been a nice couple days in the Lisp world  CCL 1.9rc2 now works with libdispatch/GCD and ABCL supports MOP -> CloserMOP supports ABCL -> Quid Pro Quo will (probably) work on ABCL. 18:41:46 yay 18:43:09 masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 18:43:13 if there ever going to be a cffi release, then commonqt will work on ABCL 18:43:45 wow 18:43:52 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 18:46:20 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-147-170.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:50 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.28.57.86] has joined #lisp 18:51:22 brain_shim [~brain_shi@108.162.181.137] has joined #lisp 18:51:30 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.28.57.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:51:51 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 18:54:22 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279585004.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:55:21 hugod [~user@76.68.234.236] has joined #lisp 18:58:29 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-76-183.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:00 ASau` [~user@46.115.113.187] has joined #lisp 19:00:48 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.44.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:04:32 -!- masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:09:24 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:09:54 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:11:54 -!- pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:14:52 -!- codekoala [~wheaties@216.51.73.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:15:29 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 19:15:42 shameless plug: https://github.com/rpav/c2ffi .. uses Clang's AST parser to generate FFI information from headers/etc .. outputs JSON and cffi native 19:16:00 should already beat SWIG 19:16:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-116.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:16:49 oGMo: nice 19:17:17 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:17:43 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:18:00 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.157] has joined #lisp 19:18:26 oGMo: Very cool :) 19:24:05 it'll probably be getting improved as i actually use it to replace swig in a few projects, but :P 19:26:20 err, crap, apparently there's already a project called c2ffi :P 19:26:26 on cliki anyway 19:27:43 codekoala [~wheaties@216.51.73.42] has joined #lisp 19:28:43 oGMo: +1 19:29:21 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.172.94] has joined #lisp 19:31:21 is that sexp format usable as it is somewhere? 19:32:02 Adeon: no, but the _actual_ cffi output is .. it's just a lot messier because it calls a helper function on all names 19:32:30 -!- silenius [~silenius@g230187204.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:32:40 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 19:32:46 the sexp demo is mostly a decent place to debug and play around with output 19:34:38 -!- anonus [~anonymous@citadel.niflheim.info] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 19:34:50 -!- bitonic [~user@b0f86210.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:35:30 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 19:35:48 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 19:36:26 anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #lisp 19:36:52 -!- anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Client Quit] 19:37:59 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:53 anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #lisp 19:39:47 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:18 reb`: Sorry, had to rush to give a lecture. I'm working on a new CL implementation written in C++ that uses LLVM as the backend. 19:40:36 rme [~rme@50.43.190.179] has joined #lisp 19:42:23 Dalek_Baldwin: I always thought it was to keep the implementation as simple as possible - until I realized that you have to deal with cyclic references which complicates things enough that forward references don't seem like such a problem. 19:42:43 oGMo: CCL uses a similar tool named ffigen4. It patches gcc-4.0.0. See http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/BuildFFIGEN. The svn repo is http://svn.clozure.com/publicsvn/ffigen4/. 19:43:00 Maybe it's that forward references can be converted to backwards references by rearranging the input? 19:43:25 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-147-170.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:43:33 oGMo: I've thought about doing that your way before (using libclang), but it's difficult to gain the enthusiasm to replace an existing, working tool. 19:43:54 rme: cool .. there's also verrazano, but dealing with gcc seems to be more work than building llvm/clang and linking against it 19:44:41 AeroNotix [~xeno@abon190.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:45:02 rme: yeah .. i hadn't seen ffigen4 mentioned anywhere sadly heh 19:46:03 (also i wanted a tool that could generate non-cffi output at some point .. not sure what ffigen4 does .. this certainly doesn't do objc/c++ yet) 19:46:22 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:46:29 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:46:55 silenius [~silenius@f052156154.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:48:19 Your libclang way is the way to go, I think. It's C++ (which I don't know well) and you have to pull in a lot of LLVM infrastructure, but it's probably more maintainable than having to keep patching gcc. 19:49:25 probably .. llvm just has a bunch of libraries you pull in .. this is surprisingly few lines of code, and as much as i don't really like C++, llvm has a decent api 19:49:43 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: "latuh"] 19:50:03 rme: the main issue is major changes to the AST api, which happen fairly often from what i gather. but this splits the frontend/backend code so it should be maintainable 19:50:53 oGMo: Are you folks talking about building FFI's between C++ and CL using Clang? I ask because I'm writing a CL compiler in C++ that uses LLVM as the back-end. 19:51:32 drmeister: nah this just reads .h/.c files and generates the FFI declarations 19:52:18 i _do_ think it's possible to use llvm to generate a C wrapper for a C++ library, and export those bindings, but that's a fair bit more work 19:52:39 surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 19:52:43 drmeister: There are also CL bindings to LLVM  having a CL implemention use them would be a good test :) 19:53:15 pnpuff [~cyanide@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:54:08 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 19:55:28 ehu [~ehu@93.82.250.14] has joined #lisp 19:56:45 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abog36.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:56:45 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 19:57:08 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 19:57:10 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:57:23 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 19:58:18 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abon190.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:59:08 The CL bindings to LLVM that I found were broken and a pretty small subset of what I've implemented. They are also to the extern "C" bindings for LLVM which are lagging behind the C++ (development) bindings. 19:59:46 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abog36.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:00:09 AeroNotix [~xeno@abog36.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:00:43 milanj [~milanj_@82.117.199.26] has joined #lisp 20:01:40 drmeister: Which one did you look at? There used to be three, but I think mine (https://github.com/sellout/cl-llvm) are the only ones left now. They should implement everything, but you're right  they're based on the C wrapper. 20:02:08 unfortunately wrapping C++ stuff is next to impossible :P 20:02:13 Yup. 20:02:25 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:02:39 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 20:02:47 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-134-252.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-022.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:04:48 I don't think it was the LLVM FFI that you pointed me to. But the last time I checked was last August. And let me change "broken" to "I couldn't get it to work but that doesn't mean much". 20:05:14 Fair enough :) 20:05:35 oGMo: I'm wrapping the C++ api. 20:05:39 surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 20:05:42 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:48 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:02 drmeister: at some point I was thinking it might have to do with the fact that you can read in a list and spit it out you get the same external representation as what you read in, but that's not the case if you don't use strictly consecutive numbers starting at 1 for the labels 20:06:51 I'm doing it by implementing a new CL system in C++ and using loads of template programming to interface C++ code with CL and vice versa. 20:06:59 heh 20:07:41 well it may be possible to do it in a more automated fashion if you generate a C wrapper from the C++ source and compile it on demand .. since you literally need the C++ compiler to write code that interfaces with most C++ these days 20:07:51 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:08:45 Dalek_Baldwin: It could be - it's a bit of a mystery to me. I implement forward references in my serialization code and now its based on a CL reader. 20:10:11 or maybe that just seemed like a good idea when I was writing my serializers because it made it easy to test 20:11:02 oGMo: I'm not sure. I end up having to deal with quite a number interface issues using hand coded wrappers. Maybe about 10-20% of functions need to be hand-wrapped because of C++ overloading names, differences in pointer ownership, object translations that are easier to do by hand than to write template code ... 20:12:17 drmeister: right .. i'm talking using clang++ to parse the C++ and generate stuff from that, similar to generating ffi bindings 20:14:39 oGMo: I've been thinking along those lines as well. Right now I use the boost::python approach. Every simple case is wrapped in C++ like this --> defun("cl-func-name",&cppfunc). Argument/result translation for functions of arbitrary arity is handled with template programming. 20:14:52 custom-but-well-defined mangled function names and cdecl/stdcall/etc .. probably some smart handling of .so load/unload 20:15:09 drmeister: ah 20:16:42 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:19:24 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:23:20 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 20:23:43 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 20:25:35 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abog36.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:26:57 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:30:06 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-134-252.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:32:19 ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:10 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-201-165-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 20:33:20 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-134-252.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:47 zeom [~zeom@unaffiliated/zeom] has joined #lisp 20:36:36 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-223-223-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:37:14 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:37:17 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 20:39:09 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 20:39:19 nyef [~nyef@c-76-119-183-159.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:55 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 20:43:08 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:43:14 -!- Eldariof-ru is now known as eldariof 20:45:41 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:39 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 20:47:15 can I configure slime to evaluate an expression when the inferior lisp starts up? 20:48:20 AeroNotix [~xeno@abok215.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:48:50 -!- codekoala [~wheaties@216.51.73.42] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 20:49:16 codekoala [~wheaties@216.51.73.42] has joined #lisp 20:49:17 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:19 I'd imagine that you should be able to. I know that I typically start my "inferior" lisp separately and use slime-connect, there's a way to have a slime initfile for your inferior lisp, and so on. 20:50:48 duko [~duko@static-72-87-239-154.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:15 I used to run my "inferior" lisp from the command line and have it RUN-PROGRAM emacs for me, making it more of a "superior" lisp... 20:51:56 well, that's what slime calls it 20:52:23 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:53:38 okay, it looks like I can do it in the :init argument for the particular entry in slime-lisp-implementations 20:54:22 but I added (setq *print-circle* t) to it and it seems to revert back to nil by the time the repl pops up 20:54:41 Sure, "inferior" / "superior" is emacs process terminology, which inherits from one of the old OSes used at MIT (possibly ITS?) 20:55:11 Mmm. That's what you're trying to do? You might have a look for another mechanism, then. 20:55:27 -!- silenius [~silenius@f052156154.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55:41 oh weird, *print-circle* is t when I evaluate it in the *inferior-lisp* buffer but nil in the *slime-repl sbcl* buffer 20:55:50 are they not the same lisp? 20:56:21 Different threads in the same lisp, probably, which usually implies separate dynamic variable bindings. 20:56:33 Only if someone's done a local binding. 20:56:49 Could be that slime binds it expressions you evaluate for some reason. 20:56:57 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 20:57:30 -!- pnpuff [~cyanide@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:57:37 It could be a local binding in either thread, surely? Don't new threads tend to see global bindings even for locally-bound specials on the creating thread? 20:58:23 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 20:58:52 maybe if I set it before it starts up swank it'll have the same value in both threads, lemme try 20:59:26 There's most likely a slime specific variable you have to tweak. E.g. by setting it in your ~/.swank.lisp 20:59:44 nope :( 21:00:21 I'd consider looking at the slime source myself, except that I'm probably still running something from September 2011. 21:01:03 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:03:42 -!- mon_key`` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:41 mon_key`` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 21:05:39 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-012.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:08:27 -!- nop0x07bc [~pon1980@h208n7-haes-a12.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:08:53 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 21:09:05 CatMtKing [~chrono220@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:29 Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has joined #lisp 21:10:12 swank:*default-worker-thread-bindings* 21:13:51 cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD2EC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:08 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 21:16:27 -!- cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD2EC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:18:43 that looks like the variable I need, now I just need to find where to insert the code to modify it... 21:18:58 ~/.swank.lisp 21:20:11 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 21:22:24 ha, now it's t in *slime-repl sbcl* but nil in *inferior-lisp* 21:22:28 mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.19] has joined #lisp 21:22:28 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.19] has quit [Changing host] 21:22:28 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 21:23:01 good enough for what I need, thanks 21:23:45 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:25:14 -!- _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 21:27:02 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.190.179] has left #lisp 21:34:00 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.172.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:34:54 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