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01:58:35 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:05:36 -!- cfy` is now known as cfy 02:05:43 -!- cfy [~ilisp@183.141.46.9] has quit [Changing host] 02:05:43 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 02:14:09 -!- Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:14:17 Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has joined #lisp 02:14:20 -!- turbolen1 [~bastian@turbolent.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:14:28 turbolent [~bastian@turbolent.com] has joined #lisp 02:19:43 are symbol macros expanded only in situations where the symbol would normally be looked up in the variable namespace? 02:21:35 Dalek_Baldwin: yeah. you can see so in clhs symbol-macrolet. 02:21:54 well, I didn't see so in clhs symbol-macrolet 02:22:53 "Each reference to symbol as a variable within the lexical scope of symbol-macrolet is expanded by the normal macro expansion process;" 02:24:04 -!- impulse- [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1096586303.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:24:47 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.239] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:24:59 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.173.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:25:53 ah, the read table in my wetware was looking for the word "namespace", not "variable" 02:28:32 newblue [~newblue@119.121.243.41] has joined #lisp 02:28:44 Defluo [~Defluo@unaffiliated/defluo] has joined #lisp 02:30:18 mrdtt [~mrdtt@171.245.51.171] has joined #lisp 02:32:15 impulse- [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1096586303.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:37:05 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:37:10 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 02:39:31 seangrov` [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:11 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 02:43:35 -!- chebastian [~chebastia@c-d875e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:45:26 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.239] has joined #lisp 02:46:02 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47:08 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@216.23.215.142] has quit [] 02:49:08 meiji11 [~user@d50-99-49-90.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:17 -!- Yuuhi [benni@pD9F98CB8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:50:35 brunoscholz [~brunoscho@177.143.189.108] has joined #lisp 02:51:13 irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.45] has joined #lisp 02:53:04 francisl [~anonymous@bas3-montreal42-1168076900.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:54:43 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 02:57:49 what are we coding tonight? 02:59:20 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-146-76.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:55 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:06 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:04:45 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 03:07:04 -!- doesthiswork [~Adium@75.87.251.5] has left #lisp 03:07:15 doesthiswork [~Adium@75.87.251.5] has joined #lisp 03:07:36 -!- impulse- [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1096586303.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:09:46 k0001_ [~k0001@host223.186-125-106.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 03:10:33 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 03:11:18 -!- Fare [~tunes@78.251.120.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:11:46 same thing we code every night pinky 03:12:01 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:12:29 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [Client Quit] 03:12:43 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 03:12:44 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.154.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:13:09 -!- k0001 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[~mb@dslb-088-075-134-012.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:22 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:26 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-134-012.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:25:28 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.239] has joined #lisp 03:31:51 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:32:39 -!- emma_ is now known as em 03:34:57 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:38:12 Quadrescence: http://alpha.common-lisp.net/ is what I am coding ... somehow must be related to this channel 03:39:41 interesting, interesting 03:39:45 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:39:50 LiamH [~none@rrcs-24-43-226-3.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:44:25 zacts [~lcc@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 03:44:33 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:44:43 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:45:58 Fare [~fare@78.251.120.48] has joined #lisp 03:46:20 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:48:08 drewc: while you create this site, will you also make a script install-lisp.sh to install fresh SBCL, quicklisp, emacs, and SLIME 03:48:52 -!- Defluo [~Defluo@unaffiliated/defluo] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 03:50:35 you mean wget, wget, wget, and wget? :) 03:50:56 Forget emacs  bring back clim-desktop! 03:51:08 sellout-: great ! 03:51:14 Hahaha 03:51:50 Heh ... there is an issue ... does emacs become common lisp or does common lisp become emacs? 03:52:17 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:52:20 the former 03:52:35 -!- emma_ is now known as em 03:53:01 (require 'cl) ? 03:53:23 oh i misinterpreted 03:53:34 -!- em is now known as emma 03:53:38 maybe... 03:54:05 http://emacswiki.org/emacs/CommonLispForEmacs and http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsCommonLisp 03:54:17 -!- irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:54:55 what i wanted to say is that emacs becomes zmacs or climacs 03:56:10 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:56:37 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:57:06 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:57:15 arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 03:57:21 -!- alpha123` [~turkchess@71-212-143-72.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:57:29 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:57:49 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@li568-31.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:58:11 ok ... let me know when it works and I will move to it. First things first: run all elisp. Second, work on all the plaforms I use it on. Third, make SWANK and SLIME-like work over the network. :) 03:58:22 -!- Fare [~fare@78.251.120.48] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:58:59 (I started using emacs when I started lisping. Now emacs is pretty much what I use for everything. 03:59:00 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 03:59:35 brendyn [brendyn@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has joined #lisp 03:59:53 I tried using climacs, but that did not work out. It was a long time ago, so perhaps things have changed. 04:00:25 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:09 When compiling CONS lists - how do I detect and deal with cyclic references? 04:04:54 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:06:43 drmeister: how do you compile CONS? :) 04:07:14 drmeister: there's alexandria:circular-tree-p for detection 04:08:34 quadrescence: Compiling '(1 2 3 4) or #.(list 1 2 3) 04:08:37 drmeister: oh, sorry, for some reason i interpreted that as "how do i compile circular X" 04:09:23 This is something I have to anticipate and deal with, correct? 04:09:27 yes 04:09:35 though #.(list 1 2 3) doesn't work like you seem to think 04:09:55 How does #.(list 1 2 3) work? 04:10:01 like (1 2 3) 04:10:09 (illegal function call) 04:10:57 as for dealing with it, i think it's just the same as other circularities, you notice it at compile time and put code that mutates the tree into the correct structure in load-time after the tree is consed up. 04:11:19 Ok, #.(list 'list 1 2 3) 04:11:24 yeah. 04:11:36 That's just like (list 1 2 3), though. 04:11:44 so the list is being constructed at runtime, i mean. 04:12:24 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 04:12:32 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 04:12:36 Bike: Ok, so I have to think about this some more. 04:13:21 Fare [~fare@men75-12-88-183-198-131.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:23 Then every CL implementation has the ability to detect circularities and deal with them? Is there anything in the CLHS on this? 04:14:43 clhs EQ 04:14:43 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for EQ. 04:15:02 drmeister: i think it's the same sections you've been looking at. there's a bit about how substructures that are eql in the code have to be eql on loading. 04:15:14 well, EQ is how to detect circles :) 04:16:36 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host223.186-125-106.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:16:53 Bike: I have code to detect cycles in undirected graphs - that's how I identify rings in molecules. CONSes are directed graphs. 04:17:39 that shouldn't be a problem, then 04:17:53 i think you have to do it with things like arrays, too, though, so maybe keep that in mind 04:18:13 (sigh) 04:18:40 This is old code I wrote to detect cycles: http://tinyurl.com/bmzyset 04:18:43 :) 04:18:47 You can't just implement a part of common lisp (sigh). 04:18:49 -!- Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:19:11 why not? it's a good hobby 04:19:13 circularities are dealt with on a case-by-case basis, from what I've seen 04:19:33 sometimes they're handled, sometimes not, sometimes you get compiler bugs... 04:19:53 -!- brunoscholz [~brunoscho@177.143.189.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:19:54 -!- Fare [~fare@men75-12-88-183-198-131.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:20:29 Fare [~fare@men75-12-88-183-198-131.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:50 drmeister: actually I think somewhere in the standard you can claim a conformant implementation as long as it has a subset of functionality, or something 04:22:06 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:53 -!- mrdtt [~mrdtt@171.245.51.171] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:23:11 or if you and your implementation are both really evil, you can abuse circularity like the last example here http://bc.tech.coop/blog/051228.html 04:24:18 Quadrescence: I'm more worried about getting it right. I have self-referencing data structures and I don't want my code to go into a mysterious endless loop a few months from now when it hits a cyclic data structure. 04:24:21 -!- Fare [~fare@men75-12-88-183-198-131.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:24:48 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:25:43 mrdtt [~mrdtt@171.245.152.250] has joined #lisp 04:27:51 wait, is this in your application code, or within your lisp implementation? 04:28:13 drmeister: if you don't use them as literal objects there's probably not that much worry for you, though 04:28:21 Dalek_Baldwin: Lisp implementation. 04:28:56 well sbcl will gladly go into an infinite loop if you give it something like (mapcar #'identity '#1=(a . #1#)) 04:29:48 it's left to the user to be safe or not, if you know beforehand that something contains no cycles 04:33:14 (defun yes (&optional (string "y")) (mapc #'(lambda (x) (declare (ignore x)) (princ string) (terpri)) '#1=(x . #1#))) 04:33:27 Hmmm, thinking, thinking, thinking. 04:34:09 i think the map functions are all specified to work on proper lists? 04:34:31 clhs mapcar 04:34:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mapc_.htm 04:34:47 yeah, but offhand I can't think of any standard function that checks for circular data by default 04:34:52 Here's my problem. I need to be able to compile (QUOTE XXXX) where XXXX can be a CONS tree with or without loops. 04:35:10 Bike: yep, "Should be prepared to signal an error of type type-error if any list is not a proper list." 04:35:14 I need to be able to generate code that will generate a similar tree when my compiled file loads. 04:35:18 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.146.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:35:31 drmeister: do like make-load-form's circularity example, is what i mean. 04:35:33 Bike: but I personally am okay if MAPC workes on circular lists just so we can have neat loops :) 04:35:50 Quadrescence: it's cool, just not something drmeister needs to worry about. 04:35:57 oh yeah of course 04:36:18 have you seen the kernel spec? it's designed with circular lists in mind, which leads to map relying on gcd 04:36:31 er, lcm. 04:37:15 Vicfred [~Grothendi@189.232.13.148] has joined #lisp 04:37:24 At load time I could create all the CONSes first and then set their CAR and CDRs in a second pass. 04:37:42 right. 04:38:16 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 04:38:47 -!- worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:38:53 That's what I think MAKE-LOAD-FORM does with its creation and initialization forms. 04:39:31 Bike: I haven't seen the kernel spec. 04:39:55 that was more directed at quadrescence than you, like i said you don't need to worry about it 04:40:08 What are lcm and gcd? 04:40:26 least common multiple, greatest common divisor 04:40:29 least common m... 04:40:37 Oh, those lcd and gcd. 04:40:42 lcm and gcd. 04:41:03 back in grade school we called it gcf :) 04:41:58 I always call it WTF! .... 04:42:07 :))) 04:42:40 basically because of prime numbers more than anything else :) 04:44:09 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas3-montreal42-1168076900.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 04:45:03 Ok, so I crawl down the CONS tree and put each CONS and atomic value in a (make-hash-table :test #'eq) to identify the unique nodes. Then I generate code to generate similar nodes and then I wire them together by setting the CAR and CDRs of the CONSes. I probably have to do something similar with array entries. 04:45:38 I'm not being clear about what is happening at compile-time and what is happening at load-time. 04:48:22 -!- LiamH [~none@rrcs-24-43-226-3.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:51:53 Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 04:52:54 I don't think I need to detect loops then. 04:53:25 I think this isn't a problem in other CL implementations because they just build the cyclic data structures at compile time and write them into the fasl file. 04:54:04 My compiler gets passed the cyclic data structure and has to generate code that will generate a similar data structure. 04:55:42 sbcl has fops for rplaca and rplacd, so i doubt that 04:56:46 I have to do it this way to maintain compatibility with C++ because I have to have C++ generate the cyclic data structure and I don't want to dig it out of memory. 04:57:01 Bike: What are fops? 04:57:13 sbcl's operations in fasl files. 04:57:43 they're even commented "fops for fixing up circularities" 04:58:16 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:58:26 Bike: You mean in their library for building fasl files? 04:58:33 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-146-76.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:58:42 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 04:59:30 sbcl's fasl files are a series of instructions. rplaca, rplacd, and (setf svref) are available there for fixing up circularities. so it's doing it at load time, i think. 04:59:44 replore [~replore@EM117-55-68-162.emobile.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 04:59:47 -!- replore [~replore@EM117-55-68-162.emobile.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:13 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 05:00:13 so this is serializing lisp data structures to be rebuilt in c++? 05:02:20 Dalek_Baldwin: Yes, the lisp data structures are implemented as C++ classes and I compile them into code that calls the C++ constructors to generate the lisp data structures at fasl load-time. 05:02:25 dumping conses literally would mean maintaining addresses, which you couldn't do easily given different memory layout at compile time and load time... 05:02:48 Bike: Exactly, therein lies madness. 05:03:26 And a lot of C++ compiler implementation details. 05:04:50 The way that I'm doing it you could conceivably generate a fasl file from my CL compiled by one C++ compiler and load it back into the CL compiled by another C++ compiler. Not that I'd ever want to do that. 05:05:07 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:33 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@fsf/member/zenlunatic] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:05:39 replore_ [~replore@EM117-55-68-162.emobile.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 05:05:58 The main thing is I don't have to worry about how a particular C++ compiler lays out classes in memory. 05:06:10 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:06:39 zenlunatic [~justin@fsf/member/zenlunatic] has joined #lisp 05:06:50 i'm just saying that fixing up circularities in data structures in another pass is pretty normal i think. 05:06:54 -!- replore_ [~replore@EM117-55-68-162.emobile.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:07:13 luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-171.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:25 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:07:48 But if I use the creation/initialization approach as you suggested then I don't think I need to detect or fix up circularities. 05:08:15 at compile time you need to detect them so that you can generate the code to fix them up at load time. 05:08:46 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:08:50 -!- mrdtt [~mrdtt@171.245.152.250] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:09:26 I'd like to write a macro which introduces a name in both the function and value namespace. Eg. (my-let ((foo bar)) (foo foo)) --> (funcall #'bar bar). How should I approach this? 05:09:58 er, I mean (funcall bar bar) 05:10:20 luqui: flet+let, i guess? 05:10:22 mrdtt [~mrdtt@171.245.167.154] has joined #lisp 05:10:40 Ah, didn't know about flet. That would be a straightforward way :-) 05:10:58 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@fsf/member/zenlunatic] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:11:25 But lets say I have #1=(cons_a 1 (cons_b 2 (cons_c 3 #1#))) 05:11:44 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.176.154] has joined #lisp 05:12:25 Oh wait, that's just like labels. Is there a form of flet which I could give a lambda without having to supply a parameter list; (flet ((f (lambda (x) x))) (f 0)) --> 0 05:12:48 I can recursively go down this list and put each of cons_a, cons_b, cons_c and 1,2,3 into a hash-table. 05:12:50 zenlunatic [~justin@fsf/member/zenlunatic] has joined #lisp 05:13:19 luqui: no, you'd have to (flet ((f (x) (funcall (lambda (x) x) x))) ...) or so 05:13:37 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:13:39 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:13:56 Bike: but what if I don't know how many parameters it takes? 05:14:04 (i.e. it's passed in from the outside) 05:14:27 use &rest and apply? 05:14:46 alright. I was hoping there was a more direct way. 05:15:54 I'll just try and whip something up and see if it works on cyclic CONSes. 05:16:32 (flet ((f (x) ((lambda (x) x) x))) (f 0)) 05:16:51 I do not like that syntax, but it does get rid of the funcall :P 05:18:50 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@fsf/member/zenlunatic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:18:50 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:20:47 zenlunatic [~justin@fsf/member/zenlunatic] has joined #lisp 05:23:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.70.184] has joined #lisp 05:23:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.70.184] has quit [Changing host] 05:23:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:24:15 I've used two approaches to serializing cyclic structures recently, one that's roughly the same as the #n= and #n# syntax, and one that explicitly lists the allocation and construction steps separately 05:24:30 Defluo [~Defluo@unaffiliated/defluo] has joined #lisp 05:26:41 the rjson library spits out something like {"header":{"allocs":[rjalloc(0,"common-lisp-user:a-lisp-object",{})],"inits":[rjinit(0,{"anAttribute":rjconstruct("common-lisp-user:a-lisp-object",{},{"anAttribute":rjref(0)})})]},"content":rjref(0)} for two objects that each contain the other as an attribute 05:27:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 05:28:03 browndawg1 [~browndawg@117.201.176.154] has joined #lisp 05:28:06 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 05:28:08 Dalek_Baldwin: I forget if you've told me this - what are you working on? 05:28:46 it's for passing molecular structures from lisp to javascript 05:30:18 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.176.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:30:19 Oh, yes, forgive me - I remember now. Chalk it up to lack of sleep and trying to keep too many programming balls in the air at the same time. 05:30:44 before I found that library, I wrote an encoder for another format with no existing implementations... 05:31:09 it looks like https://gist.github.com/anonymous/04aa0ac83b675776775f 05:31:41 I mean, you have to do the same work either way, obviously 05:32:19 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:32:39 I guess it just depends on how much work you want to do before or after putting it into an intermediate format 05:32:57 Yeah, I think I'm just making it harder than it is. 05:33:06 the rjson approach sounds like what you're talking about, spitting out actual procedural code for assembling the objects 05:33:22 My intermediate format is executable code. 05:33:24 Yup. 05:33:28 silly loop macro question: I have a while clause and the loop seems to execute 1 iteration after that clause is no longer true. is this normal? Is there an easy way to get it to stop happening? 05:34:39 you might want to take a look at it for inspiration, it's only a couple hundred lines of code 05:35:13 although it doesn't actually handle cyclic cons structures, just shared references in object attributes 05:35:13 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:35:30 it is not normal for a loop to continue to exicute after the test has tested false 05:35:38 Look at what exactly? The most recent link you posted? That didn't have 100's of lines of code. 05:36:39 https://github.com/russell/rjson 05:37:11 -!- Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 05:38:11 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:39:16 I switched to this because it integrates with a suite of other CL tools for javascript interoperability, although it's giving me poor performance for larger object graphs 05:39:37 -!- ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:39:54 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.72.99.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:41:18 Dalek_Baldwin: I'm looking at it now. Actually I better get to sleep and I'll parse it tomorrow. 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[~Adium@75.87.251.5] has joined #lisp 07:56:44 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 07:58:24 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:02:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:04:18 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@fsf/member/zenlunatic] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:04:23 -!- _tca [~user@h151.25.91.207.static.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:44 Good morning! 08:05:02 I see you're a west coast kinda guy 08:06:54 no, europe. :-) 08:07:32 well for me its 7 minutes into the morning so your timing seemed suspicious 08:09:03 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-185.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:09:15 how about my other guess, that you like nethack? 08:10:53 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:10:56 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has joined #lisp 08:10:56 jerryzhou [~gururui@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 08:11:15 Good Middle-of-the-Night, Lispers! 08:11:19 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:32 Good afternoon :] 08:12:46 (yes, 12 minutes past noon) 08:13:45 hi 08:13:51 i have a question 08:14:11 i am in slackware linux when i alt+x in emacs slime 08:14:19 it said no math 08:14:47 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 08:14:50 doesthiswork: nethack? 08:14:54 doesthiswork: what is that? 08:15:53 hi 08:15:58 who use lisp 08:16:01 jerryzhou: do you have slime installed? 08:16:02 roguelike 08:16:19 i can use sbcl 08:16:37 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:16:46 zenlunatic [~justin@fsf/member/zenlunatic] has joined #lisp 08:16:47 and under /home thereis slime file 08:17:11 i am crazy the wholle afternoon not done one thing 08:17:35 jerryzhou: how did you install slime? i'd recommend using quicklisp 08:17:57 that commod 08:18:00 one commond 08:18:07 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53fec.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 08:18:24 cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@common-lisp.net:/project/slime/cvsroot co slime 08:18:29 this commod 08:18:34 am i right 08:18:34 ? 08:18:56 jerryzhou: try it. 08:18:57 quicklisp i still download but i canot configure 08:19:04 are these same one? 08:19:19 -!- baordog [~baordog@ool-18bc8a34.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:25 i donot know how to do also searched google 08:19:30 i am under slackware 08:19:34 so i came here 08:20:18 jerryzhou: following the instructions on www.quicklisp.org/beta/ always work for me 08:20:50 but i haven't used slackware in years -- since before my rebirth as a lisper 08:20:50 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 08:21:22 so what are you using? 08:21:44 macos? 08:21:49 or what? 08:21:53 archlinux 08:22:04 To install Quicklisp, download quicklisp.lisp and load it. 08:22:09 what is that mean? 08:22:12 make install? 08:22:21 what about archlinux? 08:22:42 jerryzhou: there is actually a example of how to download, and install quicklisp on www.quicklisp.org. 08:23:33 i mean how to install 08:23:38 ./ 08:23:43 make install? 08:24:17 -!- Guest35194 [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:24:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.54] has joined #lisp 08:24:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.54] has quit [Changing host] 08:24:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:24:26 jerryzhou: keep reading that quicklisp page... it walks you through running the quicklisp.lisp in sbcl, which handles installing 08:25:56 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:26:09 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-8-92.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 08:27:25 so quicklisp is better than slim? 08:27:40 you can use quicklisp to install slime 08:28:02 the quicklisp page i linked to explains that too... keep reading that quicklisp page 08:28:42 ok thanks 08:31:34 cfdm [~user@116.126.96.33] has joined #lisp 08:32:17 Is there a way to run eval in a different environment; i.e. what one might expect (let ((x 0)) (eval '(+ x 1))) to do but it doesn't 08:33:09 rmathews_ [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 08:34:09 luqui: (eval '(let ((x 0)) (+ x 1))) ? 08:34:22 progv but you're probably doing something wrong if you need that :) 08:34:42 hmmmmm what if I don't have a syntactic representation of "0"; i.e. it's a lambda 08:34:43 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 08:35:02 what does that mean? 08:35:10 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:35:10 -!- rmathews_ is now known as rmathews 08:35:30 (let ((f (lambda (x) x))) (eval '(funcall f 42))) 08:35:59 i mean it still works here because I have the syntactic form of the lambda 08:36:05 let me see if i can come up with what i mean 08:36:09 luqui: (eval '(let ((f (lambda (x) x))) (funcall f 42))) 08:36:36 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-68-37.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:36:39 (defun doit (f) (eval '(funcall f 42))) 08:36:41 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@cs78247138.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:36:53 i want f to take on the value that was passed in to me 08:38:02 Basically I have some data representing code with "free variables", and I want to bind those free variables to specific values (which I only have as values, not syntax) before executing it 08:39:32 luqui: so use let, wrap it in a macro, and pass the result to eval .. or something crazy liek that. 08:40:34 Actually woah, (eval `(let ((x ,f)) (funcall x 0))) works 08:40:43 I guess that makes sense, I'm just not used to being able to do that 08:40:57 I thought f would get stringified or something 08:41:17 why? no string in sight .. 08:41:20 eval takes a form .. 08:41:37 yeah, it's a level of meta that is not available in any other language I've worked with :-) 08:41:47 so I subconsciously didn't think it would work 08:45:28 qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 08:46:10 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 08:46:21 asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has joined #lisp 08:47:24 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:47:24 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:47:31 hmm i don't think that always works either. if f is something that evaluates to itself like a number or a function then it's fine, but if it's a list then there will be an error 08:47:43 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:48:09 e.g. if f is '(1 2 3 4 5) then it will throw "1" is not a function 08:48:11 harj [~harj@c-24-6-146-171.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:21 -!- harj [~harj@c-24-6-146-171.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 08:48:39 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:48:50 is it *only* lists that that will happen for -- everything else evaluates to itself? 08:49:33 -!- asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:50:12 luqui: symbols eval to their value. 08:50:18 rmathews_ [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 08:51:29 quote evals to its argument. There should be a list of rules somewhere in clhs. 08:51:30 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:51:30 so (eval `(let ((x ',f)) )) will do it no matter what 08:51:30 -!- rmathews_ is now known as rmathews 08:51:50 It will put literal value of f into x. 08:51:59 yeah that's what i want. good :-) 08:52:39 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 08:53:55 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:101:801b:60e2:8c00:85b] has quit [Read error: Network is unreachable] 08:54:35 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-173-red3.yandex.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:46 -!- qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:57:59 skanev [~aquarius@78-83-94-119.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 09:06:17 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:07:15 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75730c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:41 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 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connection] 12:15:38 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-103-100.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:15:49 cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.145.175] has joined #lisp 12:16:43 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.181.37] has joined #lisp 12:19:35 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:19:48 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.145.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:16 cdidd [~cdidd@128-69-124-207.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:23:26 what is the most common ffi library these days? uffi? 12:24:12 cffi 12:25:51 ck_ [~ck@dslb-088-069-120-150.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:54 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:26:07 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:26:34 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 12:26:34 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 12:26:34 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 12:28:47 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.93.1] 12:29:56 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:30:14 segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-134-012.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:23 -!- SrPx [~SrPx@177.158.32.188] has quit [Quit: SrPx] 12:33:59 seangrov` [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:14 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-24-245.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:38:02 przl [~przlrkt@p57A96E99.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:54 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:42:45 ikki [~ikki@187.208.230.254] has joined #lisp 12:42:59 mm... then i'll have to port things. 12:44:29 zorkmoid: what's the issue? 12:45:02 prxq: lots of old code using uffi. :-) 12:46:35 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57A96E99.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:47:18 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-173-red3.yandex.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:47:42 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-173-red3.yandex.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:45 CrazyEddy [~aurichlor@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 12:50:40 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75730c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:51:43 zorkmoid: isn't it possible to use both? 12:51:58 i wouldn't know.. 12:52:27 there's a cffi-uffi compat module that provides UFFI-compatible interface on CFFI 12:52:32 not sure how well it works 12:52:42 there shouldn't be, as they are thin wrappers over implementation dependent machinery. 12:53:21 prxq: possible issues in arranging of shared lib loading? 12:53:47 p_l: loading order? 12:54:07 might be 12:54:25 well, i'd prefer porting it over to cffi ... 12:54:30 i'd not expect that to be an issue. 12:54:32 haven't checked, one time I loaded an UFFI library in recent memory I used the CFFI-UFFI compat 12:54:57 cl-gd uses cffi-uffi-compat on some platforms 12:55:16 there are some issues with 64 bit platforms. it works reasonably well on 32 bit afair 13:00:38 yeah, i had some weirdo issues with uffi on 64.. 13:02:28 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.176.30.17] has joined #lisp 13:02:28 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.176.30.17] has quit [Changing host] 13:02:28 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 13:03:32 Thra11 [~thrall@43.119.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:38 -!- n0vember [~n0vember@liberacescursedpiano.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:05:54 Brutos [c3c6e4ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.198.228.206] has joined #lisp 13:05:57 wow.. 13:06:00 some dudes here.. 13:06:29 n0vember [~n0vember@liberacescursedpiano.org] has joined #lisp 13:06:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.218.1.92] has joined #lisp 13:06:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.218.1.92] has quit [Changing host] 13:06:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:06:47 and i guess 90% are guys working, and is in charge of large projects or even CAD-responsible on the company.. 13:07:02 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:07:24 SrPx [~SrPx@177.158.32.188] has joined #lisp 13:07:57 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:08:09 and very busy i guess ;) 13:08:18 or i might just be om the wrong timezone :P 13:08:27 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 13:08:27 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 13:08:27 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:08:37 did you also have something real to talk about or did you just want to share your unfounded assumptions? 13:08:39 -!- mrdtt [~mrdtt@171.245.33.120] has left #lisp 13:08:40 -!- antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:08:46 prxq: that was for you :D 13:09:28 so, Lisp Q/A or shut up ? 13:12:27 Brutos: or #lisp-cafe 13:13:04 okey, i will shut up until my Q comes along,, sorry :) 13:13:09 przl [~przlrkt@p57A96E99.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:11 no.. that isn\t it.. what is it called? lispcafe? 13:13:15 cafe-lisp? 13:14:01 #lispcafe 13:15:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:16:45 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:16:47 well that was quick,,thought i was going to get the hang on this,, but its giving me a hard time.. 13:17:17 http://paste.lisp.org/display/135468 , this functions runs directly when i run a drawing,, and all the ( ) seems to be lined up.. 13:17:54 Brutos: you've ended up in the wrong channel 13:18:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:18:03 Brutos: we're talking about common lisp here. not autolisp. 13:18:06 hue ? 13:18:10 oh.. 13:18:11 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.181.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:18:12 Doh ;) 13:18:15 Sorry 13:18:19 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has joined #lisp 13:19:19 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 13:19:30 -!- Brutos [c3c6e4ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.198.228.206] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:19:35 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 13:20:18 -!- fogus|away [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:23 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57A96E99.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:24:07 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.148] has joined #lisp 13:24:50 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:24:55 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:26:14 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.172.181.11] has joined #lisp 13:26:16 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.172.181.11] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:26:47 whitedawg 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#lisp 13:38:05 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.172.181.11] has joined #lisp 13:38:08 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.172.181.11] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:38:30 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.172.181.11] has joined #lisp 13:38:36 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.172.181.11] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:39:24 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.172.181.11] has joined #lisp 13:39:30 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.172.181.11] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:42:44 -!- agumonkey [~agu@58.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:45:52 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:46:14 splittist [~splittist@99-21.63-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 13:46:20 morning 13:47:01 hi splittist 13:48:12 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:13 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:49:08 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has joined #lisp 13:49:19 rmathews [~roshan@122.164.21.47] has joined #lisp 13:49:46 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 13:58:47 -!- zorkmoid [c2ed8e07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:58:57 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn900-200.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:59:43 bitonic [~user@dyn900-200.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:01:47 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:04:21 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:46 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has joined #lisp 14:08:00 H4ns: ? 14:08:02 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:08:10 prxq: never mind. 14:08:12 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn900-200.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:08:25 ok :-) 14:08:35 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:08:54 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.173.78] has joined #lisp 14:10:01 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 14:12:31 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:12:45 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 14:17:43 bitonic [~user@dyn900-200.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:18:01 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:18:01 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:02 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 14:18:18 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has joined #lisp 14:18:36 masondesu [~textual@adsl-74-177-119-63.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:06 Is there a PHP => Lisp converter somehow? I'm trying to help for a PHP thingie that loads ~3500 php files for a single click ... if that all was simply compiled in an image in RAM it would be much better 14:19:43 lol 14:19:56 Isn't there some tool to inline it already? 14:20:33 Zhivago: mod_apc, but it doesn't help that much 14:20:58 still slow as #.(insert favourite word here) 14:21:00 Then the number of files loaded isn't the problem. 14:21:57 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:44 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-74-177-119-63.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:24:23 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:39 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn900-200.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:25:40 paul0_ [~paul0@177.42.33.29] has joined #lisp 14:25:41 -!- paul0 [~paul0@177.42.33.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:25:42 -!- paul0_ is now known as paul0 14:29:18 bitonic [~user@dyn900-200.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:31:26 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:45 luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-171.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:48 flip214: mount them all on a ram image, then at least you can say "but it's all in ram!" 14:35:04 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:36:37 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:26 thoto [~thoto@e181161084.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:00 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:41:07 -!- SrPx [~SrPx@177.158.32.188] has quit [Quit: SrPx] 14:43:24 przl [~przlrkt@p57A96E99.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:39 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn900-200.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:48:32 segv-: thanks for your input. ;/ 14:48:41 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 14:49:39 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:51:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:51:54 -!- soepstad [~user@li277-36.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 14:52:52 Dear lazy-#lisp, what do I need to put where to make sbcl and slime talk utf-8-unix to one another? Or, perhpas, where is the right place to look for this FAQ to be answered? 14:54:41 are you starting slime via emacs? 14:54:46 or from your lisp image? 14:55:04 via emacs 14:55:13 bitonic [~user@dyn900-200.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:55:21 masondesu [~textual@adsl-74-177-119-63.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:24 then it should be taking utf-8-unix already. 14:55:52 splittist: I have (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) 14:55:54 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-74-177-119-63.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:55:57 dunno if it's still required 14:56:07 it seems to have to come after (require 'slime) 14:56:09 what does (swank::find-external-format "utf-8-unix") say? 14:56:11 SrPx [~SrPx@177.158.32.188] has joined #lisp 14:56:18 masondesu [~textual@adsl-74-177-119-63.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:45 :utf-8 14:57:18 well, what is, in emacs, the value of slime-net-coding-system (what Krystof was refering to) 14:57:35 hey it's just like the old days 14:57:39 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:57:42 a bunch of people trying to set up slime 14:57:45 :) 14:57:46 party! 14:58:23 iso-latin-1-unix 14:58:57 bad slime. no cookie. 14:59:12 (setf slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) 14:59:19 and reconnect. 14:59:49 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:00:13 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:00:17 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:22 seangrov` [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:43 OK. Thanks. 15:02:50 Now, what I /really/ meant to ask was - how do I get my sbcl, running in a slime instance, to open and read (for compiling) a source file in utf-8 rather than cp1251? 15:03:30 -!- CrazyEddy [~aurichlor@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Quit: .] 15:04:25 stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:33 -!- luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-171.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 15:06:17 CrazyEddy [~Melolonth@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 15:07:13 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:07:16 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:10:20 Straylight [~user@bfx.expressionanalysis.com] has joined #lisp 15:12:06 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:12:06 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:26 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:14:50 splittist: (setq current-language-environment "UTF-8" buffer-file-coding-system 'utf-8 slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) 15:15:08 -!- ehu [~ehu@31.137.77.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:16:32 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:27 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.148] has left #lisp 15:18:25 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:18:31 skanev [~aquarius@78-83-94-119.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 15:18:31 agumonkey [~agu@58.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:22 leoc [~leoc.git@p57B9AD5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:34 anonus [~anonymous@citadel.niflheim.info] has joined #lisp 15:22:05 does cl have some bindings to mature crypto library like gpg or openssl which works ? 15:22:52 google "common lisp openssl" 15:22:56 the very first result. 15:23:00 not crap included into gpgme distribution which uses cffi that older than my granny 15:23:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:24:27 -!- skanev [~aquarius@78-83-94-119.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Quit: skanev] 15:24:52 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.240.220.164] has joined #lisp 15:25:02 spaceships [~spaceship@host-72-174-137-126.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:06 cl+ssl seems unmaintained and ironclad lacks features that i need 15:25:24 when i've looked at it last time it has no implementation of ecc/ecdsa 15:25:46 impomatic [~digital_w@87.113.152.173] has joined #lisp 15:25:53 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has joined #lisp 15:28:07 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:28:21 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 15:30:17 cl+ssl works fine 15:31:00 for the present 15:31:14 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:57 gpgme cl bindings was working after it was written 15:32:15 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 15:32:44 anonus: go complaine to gpgme people for changing stuff under other peoples feet 15:33:01 well, ok, seems cl+ssl just moved to gitorious 15:33:08 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-27.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:09 it still maintained 15:34:24 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-69-124-207.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:35 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:50 S11001001 [~sirian@gw1.mcgraw-hill.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:01 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-167-51.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:35:15 -!- S11001001 [~sirian@gw1.mcgraw-hill.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:35:15 S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has joined #lisp 15:36:31 cdidd [~cdidd@37-144-132-5.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 15:42:47 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-194-189.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:43:58 ehm, do cl+ssl can make TLS without SSL? Can it just generate a RSA or EC key from lisp? 15:44:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-211.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:04 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:17 or even just encrypt/decrypt a block of data ? 15:46:47 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:47:06 because i see no such functions in exported symbols and it lacks of docs 15:51:42 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:54:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:43 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.240.220.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:55:40 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.240.220.164] has joined #lisp 15:56:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:57:23 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn900-200.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:59:15 _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 15:59:46 anonus: no. use openssl through ffi for that. 16:00:06 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:29 better to fix gpgme bindings for that i think 16:02:30 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 16:04:00 H4ns: I thought that using libgnutls is the recommended way? 16:05:14 flip214: i used openssl in the past and it worked for me. why is libgnutls better? the string "gnu" in the name of the library does not excite me much. 16:07:06 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:08:06 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:08:17 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:08:40 -!- S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:10:27 zorkmoid [c2ed8e06@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.6] has joined #lisp 16:10:45 afternoon lithpers! 16:11:40 i see abcl has made a new release ... very nice. 16:13:40 antgreen [~green@out-on-164.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 16:13:56 huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has joined #lisp 16:14:28 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:15:03 H4ns: ISTR that there was some discussion about gnutls being architecturally better (ie. easier to use) 16:15:30 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:23 drichards [~user@c-98-232-26-203.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:24 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:31 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:22:31 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 16:23:38 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.173.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:24:04 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.173.78] has joined #lisp 16:25:06 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:54 that's not a high bar, being easier to use than openssl 16:27:13 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-173-red3.yandex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:34 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:29:03 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:30:14 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:30:25 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-173-red3.yandex.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:51 does someone use a library for interfacing gnuplot? cl-gnuplot from cliki gives a 403 + 404, but quicklisp seems to have a recent version. 16:31:19 every time you use gnuplot, a real data visualisation environment kitten dies 16:32:02 Krystof: I'm using R via swankR too, but I need consistency with a few pre-existing graphs. 16:32:29 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:37 Krystof: out of curiousity, what are your favourites? 16:32:50 isn't there one based on vecto 16:33:07 jasom: well. gnuplot is more of an antifavourite 16:33:12 I use R when I play with data 16:33:52 Krystof: ah, BTW, don't you want to incorporate the swankr changes I sent you some time ago? eg. describe-symbol? 16:33:56 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-173-red3.yandex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:03 I have not had much time to think about swankr 16:34:07 read: any time at all 16:34:31 see? _that's_ why I still have to use inferior solutions 16:35:59 Krystof: your fault 16:36:02 my fault 16:36:14 :D 16:36:23 ;) 16:36:31 some day I will retire, fix the world's problems, and _then_ you'll all be sorry 16:37:11 looking forward to watching that, with some chips in a bowl beside me 16:37:35 I keep thinking the same thing ... "later on, when I've got more time..." 16:37:43 sadly I think that won't happen by itself. 16:38:23 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 16:42:30 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:42:53 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:43:32 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 16:45:06 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-74-177-119-63.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:52:23 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-164.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:54:29 bitonic [~user@dyn902-63.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:57:25 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:55 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 16:58:45 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:01:23 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.173.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:07:24 Xach [~xach@cpe-67-255-229-229.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:09:13 Hello friends. Is the condition printer specified for simple-conditions? I know the format-control and format-arguments are stashed, but are those actually specified to be used as part of standard simple-condition printing, or just always used by convention? 17:10:27 masondesu [~textual@68-115-251-182.static.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:11:59 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:14:09 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 17:14:55 For multidimensional arrays, I can use ROW-MAJOR-AREF to treat the array like a 1D vector - but how do I determine the total number of elements? Is it just (apply #'* (array-dimensions XXX))? 17:15:06 ngz [~user@43.41.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-94.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:16:07 drmeister: array-total-size? 17:16:29 drmeister: though it ignores fill-pointers 17:16:53 drmeister: and a 0 dimensional array has sized 1 17:17:50 -!- paul0 [~paul0@177.42.33.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:19:59 paul0 [~paul0@177.16.205.12] has joined #lisp 17:20:08 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: bleeding] 17:20:14 jasom: Thanks, do multi-dimensional arrays have fill-pointers? I'll look it up. If they do, do fill-pointers address the array in row-major-aref order? 17:20:19 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:30 drmeister: only vectors have fill-pointers IIRC 17:21:16 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:26 antgreen [~green@out-on-181.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 17:22:19 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:31:15 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57A96E99.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:32:40 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 17:34:37 przl [~przlrkt@p57A96E99.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:39 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 17:36:10 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:36:40 smull [~smull@port-212-202-120-50.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:36:51 sa sayith the spec: "If fill-pointer is non-nil, the array must be one-dimensional; that is, the array must be a vector." 17:37:14 -!- Shozan is now known as SHODAN 17:41:58 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 17:42:01 ASau [~user@46.115.102.139] has joined #lisp 17:47:09 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:50:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:52:04 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-209-106-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:55:17 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:56:24 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:58:06 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:59:14 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn902-63.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:01:32 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:24 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:58 pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:06:04 p00fy [1fd1034f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.209.3.79] has joined #lisp 18:06:04 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:07:38 is there some kind of command interaction mode for sbcl ala what the lisp machines had, i think cmucl has something like that.. 18:08:16 basically, a proper listener .. 18:08:58 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 18:09:23 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 18:13:39 harj [~harj@c-24-6-146-171.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:38 -!- ngz [~user@43.41.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:15:02 mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.219.178] has joined #lisp 18:17:00 -!- pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:22:25 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57A96E99.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:25:53 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 18:26:43 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75730c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:52 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:15 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-27.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:28:36 p00fy: sb-aclrepl and linedit. 18:28:49 pkhuong: awesome! 18:32:56 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:32:58 jaaso [~jaaso_@effic.me] has joined #lisp 18:33:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:35:29 __puff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:38:56 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:39:05 -!- __puff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:39:22 i don't understand how anyone can use the repl without a proper listener.. 18:39:42 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:39:45 p00fy: with SLIME. 18:39:56 b 18:39:59 not the same thing.. 18:41:06 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:41:07 p00fy: you find sb-aclrepl and linedit to be preferable to slime? 18:41:17 __puff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:41:34 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.31.98] has joined #lisp 18:41:56 segv-: i'm installing both right now, but i want a listener where you can have commands, typing (cd "foo") is annoying, and :cd ... would be preferable ... 18:41:59 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.40.95] has joined #lisp 18:42:02 ditto for starting some applications 18:42:09 -!- sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:42:18 IIRC you can add , prefixed commands to slime 18:42:33 ,cd foo is even built in. 18:43:19 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:44:59 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@43.119.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:45:45 pkhuong: cd might not have been the brightest example, but i've got a bunch of financial programs i ported over from my lispm that i have used for 20 years to sbcl, and it is annoying to start it by evaling a sexp... so that sorta stuff would be nice 18:47:37 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:47:56 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 18:48:09 Thra11 [~thrall@46.208.88.185] has joined #lisp 18:48:25 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 18:48:27 -!- harj [~harj@c-24-6-146-171.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:32 <__puff> p00fy: wow! ..so maybe you know that bollinger is not only about champagne but even about bands (: 18:48:43 p00fy: honestly i don't find the repl commands that interesting (the ,!p (change package) and ,! (define variable) are nice enough when writing tests) 18:49:06 but really it's things like the inspector, the backtraces, the compiler notes highlighting 18:49:07 etc. 18:49:14 but maybe i don't spend enough time in the repl 18:49:27 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.31.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:51:03 __puff: you mean john bollinger? yeah know about 'em... 18:52:07 segv-: probobly, my main machine has been a lispm since well, they came out, a cute little ivory, but it broke so ... moving into the 20th century so to speak ... 18:52:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:52:59 mcclim also is really terribly buggy ... 18:53:27 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:53:52 not sure if this helps at all, but there is an x86-64 in a virtual machine online somewhere 18:53:56 (i saw it boot once...) 18:54:01 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:54:11 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 18:54:16 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 18:54:32 segv-: tried it, crashes ... easier to port the cruft to something modern instead of hoping something old will run .. 18:55:08 sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:55:28 would honstly prefer that since slime and emacs seem quite ancient in functionality... 18:55:54 have you looked at hemlock? 18:55:59 (ccl's IDE) 18:55:59 no, whats that? 18:57:07 it's the ide built with clozure common lisp (ccl) 18:57:13 <__puff> p00fy: it's a nice IDE.. 18:57:37 coolies, will check it out.. 18:57:37 segv-: is it OS X onlly? 18:57:48 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:58:18 jasom: afaik. 18:59:21 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 18:59:24 well, i've got some code left to port from dynamic windows to clim .. so .. cheers people! 18:59:36 -!- p00fy [1fd1034f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.209.3.79] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:00:36 -!- masondesu [~textual@68-115-251-182.static.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:01:02 bitonic [~user@b0fe5abe.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 19:04:19 -!- __puff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 19:05:31 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:08:30 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-10-222.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:08:39 -!- SrPx [~SrPx@177.158.32.188] has quit [Quit: SrPx] 19:10:23 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-10-222.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Client Quit] 19:10:50 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.40.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:10:58 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:11 SrPx [~SrPx@177.158.32.188] has joined #lisp 19:16:39 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:17:13 segv-: are you talking about my genera that is on my 64 bit server that I got specifically to run Genera? :) 19:17:46 no, but i certainly should have been :) 19:19:45 I started with that server like 4 or 5 years ago ... I only needed 32bit ... but decided to spend one hell of a lot for a 'decent' 64 bit server 19:19:54 simply to run Genera 19:20:28 did you get it working? 19:21:05 yup, first thing I did with that server was install Xen ... second thing was run Genera on my Xen box 19:21:25 Genera runs under Xen? I'm going to have to try that 19:21:33 I still have that server ...pay like 5x more than I should for it 19:22:15 jasom: everything runs under xen, that is the whole point of Xen ... the software think it is linux on a 64 bit computer ... 19:22:20 because it is 19:22:43 however, Xen sucks and you should avoid it.. KVM is the new thing. 19:23:18 (and I do run a hosting company you know ... that hosts lisp related stuff + VMs for lispers and others) 19:23:59 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.172.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:24:14 Xach: it's purely implementation dependant. Most implementations (ie. clisp) just derivate subclasses mixed in with something with format-control and arguments to be able to print them as nicely as simple-conditions. 19:24:34 drewc: even recent Xens? 19:24:35 that moved to KVM in 2012, though still have xen-five through xen-eight and still running those, though shutting it down before April to just kvm vms 19:24:52 ok. 19:25:09 -!- jaaso [~jaaso_@effic.me] has left #lisp 19:25:26 pjb: that suck? yes, there is an issue with Xen ... that is that the OS must be ported to run under the hypervisor ... 19:26:27 Where KVM is hardware virtualized ... the OS runs on the bare metal, linux thinks it is a process. 19:26:50 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 19:27:17 AeroNotix [~xeno@abol122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:27:24 skanev [~aquarius@78.128.55.20] has joined #lisp 19:27:27 Of course, I have used Xen since 2004 or so... so it may just such for me from experience ... If you prefer Xen over x86-64, well ... do not come to me :) 19:27:28 drewc: well, the question is what works better. eg. if I have a nVidia, with what supervisor will I be able to use it on at least one of the VMs? 19:27:34 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:27:37 -!- dous_ [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:28:15 pjb: you are talking about the video card? you are aware how VMs work, yes? 19:28:21 Well, I tried it when it was new (3.0), and it was flaky enough that I dropped it for now. But Xen or KVM would be better than Qemu 19:28:39 drewc: yes. And yes. 19:28:43 xen 3.0 is 'new'? :P 19:28:45 there's actually support for both paravirtualisation and HW virtualisation in Xen now. There's still perf gains with specialised kernels. 19:28:46 And so, yes. 19:28:49 When it _was_ new. 19:29:46 ok, well if you prefer that, and the performance gains are worth the significant loss of performance my benchmarks told me ... then Xen is not a bad thing. 19:30:03 Now then of course the problem is that this machine it's my main workstation and I hate to reboot it, and much more to spend hours "unbooted" while installing that kind of systems 19:30:52 masondesu [~textual@68-115-251-182.static.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:55 I've got a couple of servers running in small Qemu 24/24 quite successfully. So perhaps nothing more is needed. 19:31:06 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-181.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:31:16 pjb: I have installed 3 new linux dists this week on my laptop that has not been turned off or rebooted in ... 32 days when I ran out of power by mistake :) 19:31:28 KVM is a good thing. 19:31:44 Ok. So I shall try it. 19:32:06 (I also installed XP btw ... and tried for os2/warp 19:32:06 ) 19:32:37 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:32:40 So, I can recommend trying it ... it is a lot 'better' than Xen IMNSHO 19:32:50 Good. 19:33:31 Xach: and what pjb said was pretty much what I was going to say about the simple condition format thingie 19:34:32 pjb: and simply the look & feel! http://common-lisp.net/ <--- xen http://alpha.common-lisp.net/ <--- kvm :) 19:35:58 *drewc* is trying to make an excuse to have folks look and see and tell him what is right/wrong, because cl-net will soon be moved over to kvm in Amsterdam rather then Xen in Denver, CO. 19:36:30 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:36:56 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:37:36 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.230.254] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:37:44 arrdem [~arrdem@wireless-198-213-215-37.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 19:38:53 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:39:30 ngz [~user@43.41.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:04 we still use a lot of Xen at Walled, but we have been looking at the KVM stuff. 19:40:05 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@wireless-198-213-215-37.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 19:40:07 Well, anything that can attract and please smart newbies. 19:40:15 arrdem [~arrdem@wireless-198-213-215-37.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 19:40:48 meanwhile I'm considering trying test just how good postmodern is at stopping sql injection... got itchy fingers after they showed the automated tools during training 19:42:15 p_l: sql injection comes mainly from the fact that combining two strings is made irrespectively to the structure. 19:42:36 pjb: I know 19:43:09 huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has joined #lisp 19:43:20 The question is, since postmodern uses a completely lisp-based implementation of postgres' protocol, are there corner cases left? 19:43:25 (fuzzing attack etc.) 19:43:32 well, then, when you use `(select ,insert-something :from table), the insert-something just cannot close the parenthesis of the select operator! 19:43:34 chrisb: ok, cool 19:43:39 therefore no injection. QED. 19:43:59 Therefore lisp nullifies whole PhD thesis, therefore it's dangerous and should be terminated. 19:44:21 lol 19:44:31 Well, perhaps sub-queries. 19:45:24 You may be able to inject random queries as subqueries, if you don't validate the inserted sexps. 19:45:39 pjb: my idea is to check using a more complex corpus of possible queries, if there are points where you can get the message to be misconstructed on the wire due to passed in string 19:46:35 But really, just build your system as a DSL in an hostile environment, validating the forms with white lists: accept only acceptable input. 19:46:58 -!- ezakimak [~nick@69.9.62.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:23 So, yes, if you start from strings, there's some _parsing_ involved before building the sexp. 19:48:26 pjb: yes, and I want to build material to shovel some extra smugness for us smug lisp weenies to use :> 19:48:39 (the recent rails bugs were ... lol) 19:48:58 that rails business was absurd. 19:49:22 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@wireless-198-213-215-37.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:50:07 archonix_ [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 19:50:08 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-68-37.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:50:22 pokes [~pp@pokes.xxx] has joined #lisp 19:54:53 hello everyone, i've run into a wall trying to do something with macros, which i don't fully understand 19:54:56 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 19:55:09 and i'm wondering what the right way to do it is 19:55:28 pokes: what are you trying to do? 19:55:42 the problem reduces to making a macro i'll call xsym+1 19:55:57 which takes a number, appends it to x, and then adds 1 to that symbol 19:56:15 e.g. (let ((x5 99)) (xsym+1 5)) should be 100 19:56:16 pokes: paste.lisp.org is your friend 19:56:46 pokes: how should xsym+1 know about x5? 19:57:10 pokes: and numbers arent symbols 19:57:11 by expanding in-place to a form that has access to x5? 19:57:19 i'm not 100% confident on macros yet, obviously 19:57:21 pokes: paste what you have. 19:57:33 i can get to (defmacro xsym+1 (sym) `(intern (concatenate 'string "X" (format nil "~d" ,sym)))) 19:57:33 pokes: it is probably a simple problem. 19:57:53 (xsym+1 5) can get *to* the symbol x5 19:59:53 pokes: (defmacro xsym+1 (x) `(1+ ,(intern (format "~A~A" #:x sym)))) maybe? 19:59:56 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:00 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0c8f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:00:04 pokes: (defmacro xsym+1 (x) `(1+ ,(intern (format "~A~A" '#:x sym)))) even 20:00:18 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0c8f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:19 pokes: all untested. but that is the direction. 20:00:26 pokes: what are you reading to learn about macros? 20:00:29 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 20:00:51 practical common lisp 20:00:54 pokes: on lisp has a very good treatment of them, and also gives good advice how macros should be developed. 20:02:11 arrdem [~arrdem@wireless-206-76-122-235.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 20:02:15 pokes: this is what works: (defmacro xsym+1 (x) `(1+ ,(intern (format "~A~A" '#:x sym)))) 20:02:25 damn. 20:02:36 x -> sym in parameter list? 20:02:37 (defmacro xsym+1 (x) `(1+ ,(intern (format nil "~A~A" '#:x x)))) 20:02:45 ^ tested 20:02:57 pokes: yep, otherwise it won't know which symbol you mean. 20:03:40 oh, what if there's an extra wrinkle, and you want to be able to do: 20:03:48 pokes: i'm using uninterned symbols ('#:x) when i need to format a symbol in order to cater for non-standard reader settings. 20:03:52 (let ((x5 99) (y 5)) (xsym+1 y)) => 100 ? 20:03:57 pokes: (if you wondered) 20:04:24 pokes: no. 20:04:29 haha, ok 20:04:36 worth a shot :) 20:04:41 pokes: it won't work for non-constant symbol components 20:05:03 pokes: and you can't get that to work for lexical variables 20:05:36 knowing i can't do it is just as good as knowing how, i'll stop beating my head against macro stuff and refactor 20:05:39 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:41 thanks :) 20:06:11 NEVER use format with intern without a WITH-STANDARD-IO-SYNTAX in the middle! 20:06:35 because a kitten dies every time you do. 20:06:38 (intern (with-standard-io-syntax (format nil "~A~A" 'x x))) 20:06:40 hahaha 20:06:42 Exactly. 20:06:53 hmmmmmmm, my balanced precioussssssssss 20:06:56 Because otherwise there's no point in passing #:x. 20:06:57 lol 20:07:25 pjb: there is a point, but it may not be fine enough for your taste. 20:07:26 (setf *print-case* :downcase) is a popular choice 20:07:51 my dynamic symbol-making was an ugly choice anyway 20:07:53 "popular" as in "3 of the 3000 lisp users use it"? 20:07:56 is there any way to get sbcl to print more verbose warnings when loading an asdf system? It's not giving me any file names or line numbers... 20:08:18 basically automating the old copy-and-paste variables and change each line trick 20:08:26 instead of using arrays 20:08:53 H4ns: as in: I get a lot less comment about symbols in upper case when I copy-and-paste from my REPL since I've set it as my default. 20:10:11 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:14:17 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9740.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:15:27 anyway thanks everybody 20:18:44 -!- ngz [~user@43.41.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:19:19 bitonic` [~user@b0fe94ea.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 20:20:17 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fe5abe.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:20:59 jasom: I think you can get asdf to report them interactively, and then SLIME can do its thing. 20:21:55 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 20:28:00 ngz [~user@43.41.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:40 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:00 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:32:35 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-012-003.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:29 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:36:10 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:48 ajsharp [~ajsharp@li22-69.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:38:04 ajsharp: see what i mean 20:38:16 masondesu: sho nuff 20:38:30 (cool-guy you) 20:39:18 yer sweet 20:39:19 -!- ajsharp [~ajsharp@li22-69.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 20:40:06 Defluo [~Defluo@unaffiliated/defluo] has joined #lisp 20:40:13 -!- skanev [~aquarius@78.128.55.20] has quit [Quit: skanev] 20:40:13 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.219.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:28 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-209-106-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:42:45 przl_ [~przlrkt@p54BF9740.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:42:58 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-239-20.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:46 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:52 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 20:44:59 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-195-140.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:45:01 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9740.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:45:15 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:48:31 jynnantonix [~textual@140.247.0.101] has joined #lisp 20:50:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:26 ajsharp [~ajsharp@li22-69.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:52:30 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-209-106-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 20:52:37 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 20:52:42 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:43 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:56 -!- ajsharp [~ajsharp@li22-69.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 20:53:25 masondesu, i take issue with (cool-guy you), because at least in typical lisp code, such a thing wouldn't really make me think you're positing declarative knowledge 20:53:31 what do you think? 20:53:56 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-209-106-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 20:54:40 (push 'cool-guy (personality ajsharp)) 20:54:46 skanev [~aquarius@78.128.55.20] has joined #lisp 20:54:51 sellout-, yeah :)) 20:55:06 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 20:55:12 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 20:55:50 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 20:56:11 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@p54BF9740.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:56:58 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9740.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:57:49 HG` [~HG@wprt-4db6c098.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:26 haha sorry 20:59:32 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:59:53 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 20:59:55 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 21:00:21 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:00 -!- masondesu [~textual@68-115-251-182.static.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:05:59 -!- Straylight [~user@bfx.expressionanalysis.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:06:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:06:27 Qworkescence: (cool-guyp you) => t 21:06:39 masondesu [~textual@68-115-251-182.static.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:03 now let's talk about the difference between cool-guy-p and cool-guyp 21:07:09 jasom: should be `cool-guy-p' or `coolp' 21:07:15 heh 21:07:42 vividrain [~user@adsl-98-65-174-166.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:11 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 21:09:22 akovalenko, you're an sbcl expert, yeah? 21:09:52 kind of :) windows, threading, runtime things yes; ir1-transforms, compiler and vops no. 21:12:14 I am looking for implementation specific ways of writing https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/letrec (i.e., lexically binding lambdas to function names) 21:12:20 sbplr [~sbplr@xwi2.xmission.com] has joined #lisp 21:13:31 wouldn't you have to write your own ir1 transform (special form)? 21:14:00 -!- nightfly [~sage@sagenite.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:14:50 -!- sbplr [~sbplr@xwi2.xmission.com] has quit [Quit: sbplr] 21:15:48 maybe, unless sbcl (or other implementations) have some special way to do it that's in a package, in a similar way that SBCL has SB-IMPL::%DEFUN which, if I understand correctly, binds a symbol to a lambda 21:17:06 you can do (setf fdefinition) for that anyway. 21:17:23 -!- HG` [~HG@wprt-4db6c098.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:17:49 Qworkescence: you absolutely don't want to touch fdefinition of a symbol 21:17:57 right 21:18:33 Bike, though admittedly, it's annoying to use SET[FQ] without previously using some DEF form 21:18:49 "warning, setting previously unbound symbol" or whatever 21:19:21 -!- splittist [~splittist@99-21.63-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has left #lisp 21:19:30 i don't think you get that with (setf fdefinition) 21:19:52 you do with just a variable since it has to implicitly declare it special for you, which you might not have had in mind 21:20:13 Bike, that is what I did here: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/qtility/src/423519bbe13022caa77555b65d154c7265f89605/language.lisp?at=default#cl-56 21:21:25 I mean, just testing now, I don't get any warning for (setf (symbol-function 'foo) (lambda () 'foo)) or (setf (fdefinition 'foo) (lambda () 'foo)) in sbcl. 21:21:40 (foo being unbound beforehand) 21:22:11 -!- archonix_ [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:22:19 i think %defun just does a couple other things like set the docs and tell the compiler, it has "(setf (sb!xc:fdefinition name) def)" right in there 21:22:27 i see 21:22:32 you are right 21:23:28 I think I even commented that DEFUN needs to be a toplevel form but reading the spec I don't see any such constraint 21:23:54 defun doesn't even have to have any compile-time side effects (though it does in most implementations probably) 21:24:57 I remember using LispWorks and needing to EVAL-WHEN when I wanted to use functions in macros, which I think indicates that there's no compile-time side effect there. 21:25:22 no, the compile-time side effects I mean aren't defining the function 21:25:27 just noting it to elide later warnings and such 21:25:30 -!- ngz [~user@43.41.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:27:14 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:29:02 tusen tack 21:29:03 Qworkescence: for letrec, I would start with adding (DECLARE (INLINE ...all my labels...)) 21:29:11 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-67-255-229-229.maine.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 21:29:23 yeah good idea 21:30:02 what's the command for going from this ((1 2) (3 4)) to (1 2 3 4)? 21:30:05 At least on SBCL it really gets rid of the full call (if the function is used one time only, SBCL will inline it itself) 21:30:20 davorb: get alexandria, use alexandria:flatten ? 21:30:24 davorb: you could (apply #'append 21:30:33 davorb, (mapcan 'identity '((1 2) (3 4))) 21:30:34 thanks, to both of you 21:30:52 just for reference, does anyone happen to remember what the same function is called in haskell? flatten? 21:30:58 -!- sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:31:15 yes, and like p_l says. there's ALEXANDRIA:FLATTEN 21:31:30 (mapcan #'identity '((nconcs literals) (with literals) (which is UNDEFINED BEHAVIOR)) 21:31:55 akovalenko: s/UNDEFINED/!FUN!/ 21:32:39 akovalenko, I always forget MAPCAN NCONCs :( 21:33:06 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9740.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:33:10 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:33:16 p_l: deFUNning may be hard 21:33:41 akovalenko: yes, I spent quite a bit of time before stumbling upon the fact that I overwrote function header with setf 21:35:00 where's my MAPPEND 21:35:06 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:08 alexandria? 21:35:38 And where are the alexandria devs? 21:35:50 sbplr [~sbplr@xwi2.xmission.com] has joined #lisp 21:35:53 they have work to do on the mailing list :( 21:36:07 btw is there a way to switch inferior-lisp-program in slime without having to restart emacs? 21:36:18 other than reloading your .emacs file 21:36:23 M-x customize-variable inferior-lisp-program 21:36:41 mkay 21:36:43 or M-: (setq inferior-lisp-program "zzcl") 21:37:16 or moving the cursor in your .emacs right after the form doing (setq ..) and pressing C-x C-e 21:37:19 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:44 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:38:02 or moving the cursor anywhere in the form and pressing C-M-x 21:38:35 leoc` [~leoc.git@p57B9A631.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:40 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:58 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:42:15 -!- leoc [~leoc.git@p57B9AD5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:47:12 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@wireless-206-76-122-235.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:51:33 sirdancealot1 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