00:03:51 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:06:11 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abol66.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 00:07:00 -!- alex` [~user@p549B3C91.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:09:00 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:11:07 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:12:22 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:53 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755d67.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:15:55 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:16:31 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 00:19:33 -!- emma_ is now known as em 00:23:34 AntiTyping [~apliszka@74.73.56.156] has joined #lisp 00:23:49 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-237-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:28:04 Dalek: or you can use a linearized stateful hash-table. 00:28:11 How else would you do it? 00:29:00 or if your implementation provides some sxhash various that works for EQL, you could use that with 00:29:21 or you could do hash-consing for your objects of interest and then use 00:30:02 rtoyg: oh, maybe you also need to make sure *warnings-file-type* is a non-empty string, e.g. "cmucl-warnings" 00:32:01 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 00:32:17 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-112-217.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 00:34:39 I haven't attempted to write an interface yet 00:35:04 I'm trying to get by with the ones that come packaged with lil but then I've only really used stateful hash tables so far 00:36:52 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fcc426.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42:27 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:45:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:48:41 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 00:51:38 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 00:55:35 tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:56:15 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 00:56:23 -!- uzo [~uzo@adsl-108-73-163-107.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:56:58 uzo [~uzo@adsl-99-150-132-234.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:05 -!- leoc [~leoc.git@p5480AA2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:58:20 leoc [~leoc.git@p5DDB88C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:08 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:06:44 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:08:08 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 01:13:04 Denommus [~user@201-8-206-78.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 01:13:16 does anyone here use stumpwm with lxdm? 01:15:11 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:22:24 -!- orthecreedence [~kvirc@70-36-236-51.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:23:31 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:25:47 Fare: *warnings-file-type* is already "cmucl-warnings". 01:26:15 -!- uzo [~uzo@adsl-99-150-132-234.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:46 Fare: In lisp-build.lisp, there's a miniguide on adding support. Is that handler-case expected to catch a warning? If so, cmucl doesn't. Maybe that's the problem? 01:33:40 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A6C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:17 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839ACC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:37:48 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 01:39:39 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.250.146] has joined #lisp 01:40:33 -!- Denommus [~user@201-8-206-78.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:10 -!- lduros` [~user@64-121-246-8.c3-0.rdl-ubr1.trpr-rdl.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51:47 stopbit [~stopbit@c-68-50-168-116.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:56 tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:58:31 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:00:26 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:00:42 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 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[techlife@112.249.91.29] has joined #lisp 05:40:02 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 05:40:34 -!- archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:44:06 dartos [~thecodeth@c-71-57-159-106.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:50 Should I start by learning Common Lisp or Scheme? I got this Land of Lisp book... so I am leaning twords CL because... it's what that book goes over. Any opinions? 05:45:31 frx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 05:45:34 this channel is for common lisp, so you can guess what we'll probably say. (not that SICP isn't worth a read and Scheme worth absorbing too) 05:46:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-138.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:47:47 Bike: well... Should I START with common lisp? I plan on learning both 05:48:58 I say learn what you can .. they are completely different languages, so start with what comes first. 05:49:13 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.2.47] has quit [Quit: ...] 05:49:52 drewc: Are they really? Are they from a programming standpoint (syntax, function names (I know those are different), etc..) 05:50:00 or just from a technical standpoint 05:50:10 yes 05:50:17 ah 05:50:19 i see 05:50:21 dartos: they're very different, eys 05:50:42 for example CL has a separate namespace for functions, Scheme has mandated tail recursion... 05:50:52 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:51:01 Alrighty then... so is Land of Lisp a good book for Common Lisp? I know practical Common Lisp is really good but I really like comics and games :3 05:51:32 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has joined #lisp 05:51:53 I like Land of Lisp, and besides, if you like the book, it is fine to start with. 05:52:27 drewc: I just want to make sure I am getting my money's worth 05:52:34 I have it on my bookshelf for that matter... so it must be ok. 05:53:11 dartos: unless you are paying $5k for the book, it is probably worth the funds :P 05:53:27 *dartos* laughs 05:53:43 hah, a bit sad that there was more scheme advocacy when he asked this question in #haskell than there is CL advocacy when he asked it in #lisp. why you guys have to always be so neutral 05:53:58 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:54:23 frx: It's always good to ask two groups of people 05:54:41 bubo_ [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 05:54:53 frx: I would advocate scheme in #scheme, even though I am not a fan ... in #emacs I advocate CL and do not go to #haskell ... though I love monads.:) 05:55:20 now should I go ask this question on scheme too? 05:55:37 *dartos* is contemplating 05:56:06 dartos: and then C++, C#, Java, Perl , Ruby .. .they must all have channels! 05:56:21 drewc: I wonder if FORTRAN has a channel... 05:56:38 almost certainly, it's a pretty respected language in many places 05:56:44 still? 05:56:53 sure, it's huge in science 05:57:01 it has been a while since I saw FORTRAN code.... if there is a channel I may have to /join 05:57:10 I though they just went with ASM in sciences 05:57:12 it doesn't have pointer aliasing like C (usually) does so that's one way it's "faster" easily 05:57:20 You learn something new everyday 05:57:40 well, asm would mean learning a new language for every machine you use, which is a pain in the ass if all you want to do is hack up some sums on your equipment and get your thesis done with, eh? 05:57:45 tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:58:31 Bike: well if you are in a pretty large project you probably have some custom equipment 05:58:56 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:59:12 yeah, but you're a physicist, you don't want to have to care that much! you just get one of the CS nerds to retarget an existing compiler for you. 05:59:51 Bike: I should take offense to that "CS nerds"... is it bad that I don't :3 06:00:34 I am scared to ask but is haskell a good language to learn too? 06:00:56 dartos: all languages are good to learn. 06:00:57 haskell seems pretty nice. 06:01:15 and there's nothing wrong with learning. languages aren't mindworms that zombify you if you pick a bad one. 06:01:26 drewc: Objective-C is not good to learn... it just hurts 06:01:42 you could use it as a stepping stone to smalltalk? 06:01:42 -!- techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:01:42 Bike: Java... java can do that... 06:01:47 dartos: I disagree. 06:01:57 drewc: about java or Objective-C? 06:02:05 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:02:25 The java thing was a joke... but I never saw any upside to Objective-C 06:02:55 both really. learning is a positive thing. if you are forced to learn something, it is not the something that is negative. 06:04:11 *drewc* did not like COBOL, and thinks it is not so great, but did not mind learning it. 06:05:04 I did not enjoy learning the little Objective-C that I know. I liked every other language in one way or another... just not objective-C 06:07:59 techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has joined #lisp 06:08:14 well, I figure you should look at why... I much preferred it to C++, made a lot of sense. That and the NeXT machines were very good for other reasons... but still, as far as 'liking' goes, I guess it depends on what scale we are talking about. 06:10:12 quickest way to make a string into a md5hex? 06:10:16 So, perhaps the reason it hurts is because it conflicts with what you already know, or something... It is friday night and the 1/2 glass of wine mst be making me chatty :) 06:10:32 It's an opinion as is most things. All I know is now Haxe is my favorite language but I don't know any functional langugaes so... haskell and LISP :D 06:10:45 as are most things... 06:10:54 grammar... it works 06:11:05 you can leave it uncapitalized, just so you know 06:11:16 -!- bege [~bege@tove.cs.ualberta.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:11:38 I know... I am to lazy to change the way i've been typing it.. 06:11:47 too lazy... damn my grammar tonight 06:12:02 and lisp is not a functional language ... though depends on how /you/ define functional langauge :P 06:12:25 drewc: lisp CAN be functional, from my understanding 06:12:58 Plus it looks really weird... like brainfuck... but less... brainfucking... 06:13:01 lisp can be non-functional as well. 06:13:28 drewc: I know but it can also be functional ;) 06:13:51 eh, if you think lisp looks weird maybe you should learn perl regexes or sed better 06:14:19 and as for the 'look' being weird, well ... 06:14:51 yeah, maybe you should look at a language that has a lot of bizzare syntax :) 06:15:28 dewc: I have seen brainfuck... 06:16:27 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:59 btw I found this somehow http://www.memecreator.org/meme/i-heard-you-like-cons-so-i-put-some-cons-in-your-cons 06:17:02 you haven't used it much, though. 06:17:20 never once 06:17:56 -!- lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:18:13 whereas regexes are something you get pretty comfortable with, so you can see ([^e]|abc)*mq+\1d and figure out what it means pretty fast. 06:18:39 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:39 still more readable than brainfuck 06:18:51 or FORMAT, for that matter ... wait we are not talking about CL things .... 06:19:33 -!- strobegen [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:21:42 -!- francisl [~flavoie@69.157.143.178] has quit [Quit: francisl] 06:21:50 So CLISP or sbcl 06:22:21 strz [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has joined #lisp 06:22:22 -!- strz is now known as strobegen 06:22:34 sbcl, imo. 06:23:27 what OS? 06:23:58 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 06:24:05 Linux 06:24:31 I would go for sbcl too 06:25:10 It's faster than clisp right? 06:25:28 usually 06:25:46 sbcl compiles to machine code, clisp to bytecode 06:26:41 isn't bytecode faster? Forgive me if i'm wrong. 06:27:01 dartos: Can be. depends 06:27:05 in general you can't make sensible comparisons between things as broad as "bytecode" and "machine code" 06:27:13 ^ 06:27:23 where's that cliki page with metrics? it seemed pretty clear that sbcl generated faster code than clisp 06:27:41 Seems to be the general expectation that machine code will be faster, not true in some cases 06:27:50 but yeah 06:27:56 sbcl is faster than clisp 06:28:48 -!- strobegen [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:29:21 okay 06:30:02 What does cond do? 06:30:46 clhs cond 06:30:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_cond.htm 06:31:53 http://www.cliki.net/Performance%20Benchmarks here we go. 06:32:30 so cond is kind of like switch in c++? 06:32:39 dartos cond is a macro that expands to nested if branches 06:32:53 dartos: only in that it has multiple conditions in one construct. 06:33:06 good 06:33:16 case is more like a switch 06:33:30 you can do, e.g., (cond ((= x 4) code...) ((= x 5) code...)) but also (cond ((complicated-test) ...) ((= x y) more...)) 06:34:13 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 06:36:06 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:36:47 -!- dartos [~thecodeth@c-71-57-159-106.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:36:51 strz [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has joined #lisp 06:36:54 -!- strz is now known as strobegen 06:38:46 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:02 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:16 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.219.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:41:36 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.180.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:43:17 sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 06:43:44 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.172.191.44] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:44:39 browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.168.196] has joined #lisp 06:52:27 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 06:57:08 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:58:15 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 06:58:25 tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:58:57 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-214-113.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 07:00:39 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:02:26 cfy` [~ilisp@115.239.11.187] has joined #lisp 07:02:42 -!- bubo_ [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:03:08 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:03:25 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:03:55 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:05:15 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host64.190-137-203.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:06:38 k0001 [~k0001@200.117.223.95] has joined #lisp 07:07:03 -!- theos is now known as Guest7156 07:07:24 -!- cfy` is now known as cfy 07:07:25 -!- cfy [~ilisp@115.239.11.187] has quit [Changing host] 07:07:25 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 07:07:32 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:08:07 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:31 -!- frx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 07:10:24 -!- Guest7156 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:13:27 -!- techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:14:54 techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has joined #lisp 07:15:18 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:18:12 antifuchs: herep 07:22:51 sdemarre [~serge@122.75-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 07:23:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:27:33 mapour [mapour@linux.utu.fi] has joined #lisp 07:30:20 -!- gigamonkey [~user@50-1-84-225.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:33:35 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:41:39 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 07:44:03 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:45:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:46:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:48:12 Tanami_ [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 07:51:23 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:51:32 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:56:06 i get http://paste.lisp.org/display/135374 even with ccl upstream binaries. can anyone advise what might be wrong? 07:59:04 tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:02:47 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF97D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:03:06 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF97D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 08:03:18 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF97D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:03:38 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:04:00 anyone using the ccl rc successfully on debian? 08:06:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:07:40 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:08:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:09:54 -!- techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:11:20 -!- trof1 [trof@178.120.29.240] has quit [] 08:11:34 trof [trof@178.120.29.240] has joined #lisp 08:12:06 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:30 techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has joined #lisp 08:18:29 _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 08:21:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:23:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:24:04 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.2.47] has joined #lisp 08:24:29 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-022-205.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:26:21 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 08:28:18 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:29:19 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.92.1] 08:34:18 -!- samebchase [~samuel@codesurfers.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:34:25 samebchase [~samuel@codesurfers.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:42 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 08:40:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.87.94.90] has joined #lisp 08:40:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.87.94.90] has quit [Changing host] 08:40:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:40:21 srcerer_ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 08:40:30 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has joined #lisp 08:41:57 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:47:36 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-169-247.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:49:17 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.168.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:51:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:52:11 pnpuff [~dioxirane@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 08:52:24 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 08:52:34 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-15-102.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:52:52 -!- pnpuff [~dioxirane@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has left #lisp 08:52:54 add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-22-251.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 08:52:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:53:56 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.95.64] has joined #lisp 08:56:13 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 08:56:17 -!- sepi [nrahr1kn89@hcl-club.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:59:48 tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:00:38 archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 09:02:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:04:08 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:04:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:05:25 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:09:08 -!- mau [~mau@69.85.85.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:10:15 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:10:36 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 09:12:21 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.2.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:12:22 jaaso [~jaaso_@effic.me] has joined #lisp 09:13:37 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:15 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c16c7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:19:32 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 09:20:45 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.95.179] has joined #lisp 09:21:38 Fare [~fare@31.37.158.224] has joined #lisp 09:22:34 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:29:23 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:29:51 ol [lo@85.133.249.252] has joined #lisp 09:30:33
    hi 09:31:34 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 09:34:24 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:35:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:35:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:39:36 -!- ol [lo@85.133.249.252] has left #lisp 09:40:33 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41:25 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-4d013fd0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:40 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:41:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:41:55 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c16c7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:42:40 bitonic [~user@027b6779.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 09:45:23 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-225-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:45:23 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-225-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:45:26 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 09:51:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:51:27 -!- bitonic [~user@027b6779.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:57:30 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 10:00:30 tcr1 [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:01:28 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF97D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:03:19 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 10:05:11 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:06:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:07:23 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:10:26 agumonkey [~agu@138.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:13:22 -!- zorkmoid [c2ed8e11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:13:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:15:31 ntryGb [65adaa95@gateway/web/freenode/ip.101.173.170.149] has joined #lisp 10:23:07 -!- ntryGb [65adaa95@gateway/web/freenode/ip.101.173.170.149] has quit [] 10:24:11 kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d029eb5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:58 -!- _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:27:01 faheem: use quicklisp 10:27:40 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-160-163.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 10:28:19 rtoyg: ping 10:28:30 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-160-163.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:31:54 -!- sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:32:00 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.117.223.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:32:06 -!- sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:34:36 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-160-163.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:34:52 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:50 mau [~mau@69.85.85.150] has joined #lisp 10:37:24 mixdas_the_destr [47683a41@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.104.58.65] has joined #lisp 10:37:29 H4ns: er, what? 10:40:41 rmathews [~roshan@122.164.143.240] has joined #lisp 10:43:04 AeroNotix [~xeno@abov80.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:43:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:45:30 sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 10:45:31 bitonic [~user@dyn1222-101.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:45:58 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:47:09 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.219.23] has joined #lisp 10:49:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.87.94.90] has joined #lisp 10:49:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.87.94.90] has quit [Changing host] 10:49:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:51:11 Fare: did you see my report re the 1.9 rc with asdf 2.28 on the ccl ml? 10:52:18 uh, not sure 10:52:26 any recomendation for a web framework? I have very little experience with web programming (close to 0, actually) so it would be nice if it were easy to learn. 10:52:30 I've been kind of traveling a lot the last few days 10:53:54 -!- archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:54:33 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.219.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:56:11 Fare: ok. you want me to email you directly? 10:56:42 prxq: CL web framework or any web framework? 10:57:17 faheem: CL 10:57:33 prxq: ok 10:58:22 k0001 [~k0001@186.153.72.142] has joined #lisp 10:58:23 faheem: did you contact the ccl mailing list? 10:58:37 prxq: yes 11:01:09 tcr1 [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:01:32 yes please 11:02:05 cl-weblocks restas lisp-on-lines core server antiweb 11:02:07 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1222-101.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:02:21 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 11:02:51 mixdas_the_destr: I'm actually working my way through the cliki, but am not sure what to do. 11:03:09 I am leaning towards clackup for the simple reason that it has a tutorial 11:03:51 Fare: ok, will do. gmail address ok? 11:05:24 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:05:30 prxq: i thought hutchentoot was considered pretty good. and didn't peter seibel produce a simplified version? 11:05:57 faheem: that's just a server, i think. No? 11:06:59 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@95.87.94.90] has joined #lisp 11:06:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:08:00 prxq: maybe 11:08:37 prxq: the description says -> Hunchentoot is a web server written in Common Lisp and at the same time a toolkit for building dynamic websites. 11:09:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:10:30 yes, it is probably mostly a web server 11:11:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:14:41 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.219.23] has joined #lisp 11:15:54 ccl's asdf is behaving weirdly. (asdf:load-system :neldermead) ==> Error: invalid component designator (neldermead) 11:16:07 works on current sbcl with current asdf. 11:16:48 After that, asdf:*central-registry* is NIL 11:16:56 it was something else before. 11:17:14 bubo [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 11:17:17 looks seriously damaged 11:17:31 -!- bubo is now known as Guest9866 11:17:37 what are you trying to do? 11:17:42 is it in your source registry? 11:18:10 can you find-system neldermead ? 11:18:26 ASDF3 does not look in the current directory by default. Not anymore. 11:20:12 Fare: i forwarded the email i sent the ccl ml to your gmail account 11:20:23 Fare: (asdf:find-system :neldermead) ==> # 11:20:40 Fare: hope that is ok 11:21:17 Fare: I am just trying to load a piece of software called neldermead :-) 11:21:31 and yes, it is in the source registry 11:21:45 I gotta run, will look at your backtrace 11:21:50 send me the .asd file, too 11:22:06 Fare: you talking to me or prxq ? 11:22:18 it seems to me 11:22:27 faheem: how do you get a backtrace in raw ccl? 11:22:32 prxq: ok. 11:22:54 prxq: not sure i understand the question 11:23:15 ok got it 11:23:16 prxq: are you running with -n? if not, what is in your init file? 11:23:30 what does -n do? 11:23:45 prxq: does not load init file i think 11:23:51 lunch. bbl. 11:23:57 -n, --no-init : suppress loading of init file 11:24:33 prxq: also, what is your os? 11:25:16 linux x86_64 11:26:34 -!- Fare [~fare@31.37.158.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:26:46 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.93.1] 11:29:34 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-154-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:32:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:34:10 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:35:00 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:35:56 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.219.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:38:42 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-154-86.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:39:50 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:41:20 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@95.87.94.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:42:39 bitonic [~user@dyn1217-228.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:42:50 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:42:56 prxq: distribution? 11:43:22 would that matter? 11:43:30 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 11:49:18 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abov80.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 11:51:31 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 11:51:32 is there a way to get a backtrace from ccl? 11:52:05 it can tell me the number of frames, but there seems to be nothing obvious for 'just print the darn backtrace' 11:52:42 ok found it 11:52:43 :-) 11:53:13 This may explain why some people don't like lisp, and why some others do: http://jeremykun.com/2013/02/08/why-there-is-no-hitchhikers-guide-to-mathematics-for-programmers/ 11:53:37 Lisp is a programming language with a mathematical-style notation. 11:53:41 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:54:35 some people don't like vegetables, some do, so what? 11:56:21 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.95.64] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:56:26 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.220] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:36 pontus__ [~pontus@90-230-96-53-no22.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:56:55 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.220] has joined #lisp 11:58:11 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 11:59:07 I tried going vegetarian a few times. 11:59:28 stassats: so some people are curious about why some people like vegetable and some don't. There are some explainations about it. 12:00:34 if by explanations you mean speculations 12:01:29 I am 350 pounds 12:01:39 I should go on an all banana diet. 12:01:53 you'll die from radiation 12:01:54 tcr1 [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:01:57 stassats: but beyond the potatoe, this is also the meaning of a critique you hear about lisp and macros. That they allow each programmer to design his own language, so to render the program unreadable to other programmers. Well, that's just like mathematicians. Do mathematicians complain the proofs of other mathematicians are unreadable? No, only non-mathematicians may. 12:02:31 so, you're saying that lispers are as smug as mathematicians? 12:02:36 Yep. 12:03:07 That must be a good thing. 12:06:05 mathematicians are smug? 12:06:12 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:06:26 prxq: http://xkcd.com/435/ 12:06:40 mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.20] has joined #lisp 12:06:41 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.20] has quit [Changing host] 12:06:41 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:08:10 stassats: yeah, probably not 12:08:25 Indeed, lisp programming is just on the left of mathematicians, way over physicists: we can write universe simulations everyday, God wrote it in lisp (and some perl). 12:08:33 pjb: I actually have heard that complaint from mathemeticians, although it does seem to be mostly non-lispers who make that macro comment 12:09:41 of course. Lispers embrace it, like mathematicians embrace the freedom of notation they have. 12:09:49 It only helps abstraction. 12:10:35 :) 12:10:49 is recursion better than loops? 12:10:54 or somehow the same? 12:11:16 recursion is not better 12:11:16 somehow the same. 12:11:52 -!- reckler [~reckler@ppp118-208-158-178.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:12:02 -!- Guest9866 [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:12:15 haskell strikes me as significantly more mathematical than CL 12:12:33 boy ansi common lisp by graham is beasting my mind up 12:12:46 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003b7a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:49 beating even 12:13:19 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:14:22 how would I tell lisp to give me the first two items from a list? 12:14:39 like say you wanted to sort a list of numbers 12:14:44 big to small 12:14:57 then take the two biggest and sum the squares 12:15:25 prxq: can you redefine the meaning of syntactic elements in haskell (change the notation)? 12:15:42 (subseq list 0 2) 12:15:45 clhs first 12:15:45 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_firstc.htm 12:15:47 clhs second 12:15:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_firstc.htm 12:16:09 (list (first list) (second list)) does the same indeed. 12:16:38 mixdas_the_destr didn't ask for a list 12:17:17 prxq: AFAIK, you can't, and lisp is way more mathematical than any other programming language in this respect. 12:17:45 Of course, you can always write pre-processors. 12:18:23 mixdas_the_destr: (reduce #'+ '(1 2 3) :key #'square :end 2) 12:19:23 -!- k0001 [~k0001@186.153.72.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:21:48 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1217-228.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:28:43 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:29:35 pjb: notation is not that important in maths. Concepts are. Haskell with its monads and all the other stuff seems to me more mathematically sophisticated than our beloved common lisp. 12:30:02 lisp notation is just markup for trees + a hint of sugar 12:30:22 (subseq list 0 2) 12:30:54 so subseq will take a sorted list big to small and 0 2 with give the first two entries? 12:31:04 it will take any list 12:31:18 your job is to sort it 12:31:29 stassats: for 1 2 3 you would want to end up with 3 and 2, the square to 9 and 4 then sum to 13 12:32:00 it's not sorted, as you can easily see 12:32:02 (sort '(1 2 3 4 5) "'>) 12:32:05 mixdas_the_destr: Perhaps you want to check out first "A gentle introduction to symbolic computation" 12:32:07 yes yes 12:32:09 but the 0 2 12:32:27 does that establish the 0 index and say give first 2? 12:32:38 because 0 1 2 would be 3 entries if not?? 12:32:44 (reduce #'+ (sort '(1 2 3 4 5) #'>) :key #'square :end 2) 12:33:24 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:33:25 cool 12:33:32 thx d00dz 12:33:44 you don't even need to sort it 12:33:54 wow lisp has it all under the hood, its a matter of learning which knobs to turn it seems 12:34:09 no? 12:34:16 why the +? 12:34:38 damn lisp is powerful 12:35:17 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:36:33 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 12:36:36 pnpuff [~dioxirane@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 12:37:58 -!- pnpuff [~dioxirane@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has left #lisp 12:40:00 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF97D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:40:02 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.246.115] has joined #lisp 12:41:28 bitonic [~user@dyn1222-101.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:42:59 Hello. 12:43:08 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 12:43:21 archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 12:44:14 jeppy [~shh@cblmdm72-241-44-113.buckeyecom.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:26 prxq: but the point of lisp with its uniform syntax (op arg) is that notation is not important, but concept is. Same as in maths. 12:45:24 -!- jeppy` [~shh@cblmdm72-241-44-113.buckeyecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:05 With the corollary, that each programmer can reuse the same notation to mean something else: (o i j k) depends on the o of the current program. o[i,j,k] and o->i(j,k) with syntaxful languages give /misleading/ "hints". 12:47:13 Any reports on SBCL memory faults when coming out of sleep in Mountain Lion? 12:47:37 Kenjin: haven't seen any 12:49:27 stassats`: I'd wager it has something to do with SDL bindings, but sdl-get-error returns empty after the memory fault 12:51:32 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:02:37 tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:03:10 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: mental deadlock] 13:04:14 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1222-101.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:04:17 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:06:53 myx [~myx@pppoe-197-247-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 13:07:14 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:09:53 pjb: but as a matter of fact, CL didn't choose to fly away with the abstraction astronauts (scheme did to some extent). With the result that our concepts are comparatively mundane (a good thing, imo) 13:10:34 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0dce4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:54 Yes, the language is simple, as in math, but let you build complex abstractions as you wish. 13:11:13 In math, the axioms are vert simple too. 13:11:57 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:24 bitonic [~user@dyn1222-101.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:16:05 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 13:16:44 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0dce4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:17:37 user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:17:37 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@172.128-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 13:17:37 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@172.128-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 13:17:37 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 13:18:32 which lisp web framework uses the most abstraction? 13:21:14 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:21:42 -!- _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@172.128-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:25:19 Fare [~fare@78.251.120.68] has joined #lisp 13:27:33 -!- pontus__ [~pontus@90-230-96-53-no22.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC5-1.1.4 -- Are we there yet?] 13:29:32 pnpuff [~dioxirane@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 13:33:40 -!- Fare [~fare@78.251.120.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:40:50 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@178.74.88.192] has joined #lisp 13:40:55 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@178.74.88.192] has quit [Client Quit] 13:42:01 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.244.251] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:42:15 mixdas_the_destr: if they mention continuations and monads, then they are on the high end of that particular scale. 13:44:12 monads in lisp? I thought that those were haskellish 13:45:55 -!- pnpuff [~dioxirane@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has left #lisp 13:46:31 Fare [~fare@78.251.126.36] has joined #lisp 13:47:20 -!- leoc [~leoc.git@p5DDB88C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:48:09 -!- archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by beer] 13:48:27 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF97D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:49:07 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-212-44.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 13:51:06 -!- mixdas_the_destr [47683a41@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.104.58.65] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:57:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:58:24 mathematical construct, rather. That is misused in Haskell ;) 14:02:26 -!- CrazyEddy [~scrupulou@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:03:46 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.26.195.47] has joined #lisp 14:05:00 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.75.85] has joined #lisp 14:05:06 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.75.85] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:05:26 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.75.85] has joined #lisp 14:05:33 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.75.85] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:06:26 Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 14:08:54 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:10:24 -!- cross [cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:10:49 josemanuel [~josemanue@20.232.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:11:48 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:13:44 sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:14:27 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 14:14:38 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:15:22 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF97D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:18:36 -!- Fare [~fare@78.251.126.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:18:44 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:21:12 xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 14:21:59 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 14:23:48 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF97D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:29:21 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-225-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:30 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.26.195.47] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 14:31:25 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.75.85] has joined #lisp 14:31:45 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:45 why is there no quicklisp package for opencv? 14:31:46 Posterdati, memo from flip214: IIRC that you did an electronic simulator, take a look at the SICP videos - Lecture-05b, at around 08:10 14:34:13 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-154-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:07 flip214: I'm watching at it, but I can't catch the sense :) 14:40:02 -!- impomatic [~digital_w@65.30.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:45:14 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 14:45:52 flip214: in that lecture sussman trying to simulate the physical object starting from input and output, threating it like a black box... My approach is quite different 14:46:03 Posterdati: this is your fault: because YOU didn't write the ASD file for opencv! and You didn't put it up for Xach to integrate into quicklisp distributions. 14:48:56 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d029eb5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:58 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:21 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 14:52:22 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:53:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:58:40 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 14:58:56 zejedi [~zejedi@108.222.222.199] has joined #lisp 14:59:48 francisl [~anonymous@69.157.143.178] has joined #lisp 15:01:01 Posterdati: furthermore, as soon as you have a asd file for a system, you can just put it in ~/quicklisp/local-projects and quicklisp will see it and be able to load it for you. 15:01:17 Even before it's distributed by Xach! 15:02:09 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 15:02:34 -!- zejedi [~zejedi@108.222.222.199] has quit [Client Quit] 15:04:24 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 15:04:44 zejedi [~zejedi@108.222.222.199] has joined #lisp 15:04:50 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:31 pjb: I put it in my local project and it worked, but I didn't use quickload first time, I had to download the zip from a site... 15:08:34 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:17 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 15:10:02 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:21 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:13:42 Posterdati: this is free software: you are FREE to publish it in Quicklisp! 15:14:41 pjb: I think there are clever people than me to mantain that kind of software 15:15:23 One more reason for you to do it yourself! So they're free to work on more clever problems, than just packaging they system for quicklisp distribution. This is something you can do. 15:16:07 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 15:16:12 anyway opencv suppose to compile several c/c++ code 15:16:28 asdf can drive compilation if C or C++ code too. 15:16:33 s/if/of/ 15:17:07 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@20.232.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 15:17:19 -!- francisl [~anonymous@69.157.143.178] has quit [Quit: francisl] 15:19:42 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF97D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:22:40 pjb: I modifying the cl-opencv.lisp to load external .so library, how can I deal for per use libraries? 15:24:19 pjb: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135382 15:25:36 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:59 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:38 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF97D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:32:39 leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.99] has joined #lisp 15:39:06 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:26 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-225-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:43:17 ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.79] has joined #lisp 15:45:09 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 15:46:41 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 15:46:42 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.246.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:05 impomatic [~digital_w@87.115.38.254] has joined #lisp 15:54:23 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF97D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:56:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:57:46 bubo [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 15:58:04 -!- bubo is now known as Guest94385 15:59:51 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-214-113.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:01:29 solvip [~solvip@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has joined #lisp 16:01:49 gigamonkey [~user@50-1-84-225.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:10 browndawg1 [~browndawg@117.201.83.252] has joined #lisp 16:12:04 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.95.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:13:56 -!- Guest94385 [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:16:28 Posterdati: quicklisp/asdf installs binaries in ~/.cache/common-lisp by default. If you compile libraries, you should install there too I'd say. Now of course the problem is that it's specific to the user. But I think one can also have system-wide quicklisp installations. 16:20:54 -!- sdemarre [~serge@122.75-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:24:03 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-197-211-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:26:07 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF97D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:26:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:26:46 zacts [~lcc@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 16:30:00 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:31:24 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:32:15 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:38:29 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:39:47 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:36 sdemarre [~serge@122.75-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 16:49:46 kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d029eb5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:37 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:47 tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:55:20 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 16:56:00 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:58:28 -!- djuber [~user@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:58:29 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.250.146] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 16:59:42 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.250.146] has joined #lisp 17:01:46 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.250.146] has quit [Client Quit] 17:03:05 cafaro [~tman@37-251-16-95.FTTH.ispfabriek.nl] has joined #lisp 17:03:05 -!- cafaro [~tman@37-251-16-95.FTTH.ispfabriek.nl] has quit [Changing host] 17:03:05 cafaro [~tman@unaffiliated/cafaro] has joined #lisp 17:03:49 hello, i'd like to know if you think cl-opengl is a good ffi interface? (btw sorry i am new to this irc bussiness, only logging when i got questions, feels somehow wrong ><) 17:04:20 it's ok to only log in to ask questions 17:05:48 or i can ask differently, what is your favourite cffi based library i could learn some tricks :) 17:05:52 thanks stassats` 17:05:56 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.250.146] has joined #lisp 17:05:57 nan_: I really like cl-opengl as an ffi interface. 17:06:38 I think of it as a model of how to make a big C API lispy. 17:07:09 sykopomp: i like it too and learned (and applied to my project) many tricks from it. 17:12:46 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:26 -!- sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:14:36 -!- sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:18:02 -!- karswell` [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:19:35 forgottenwizard [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 17:20:18 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@137.164.79.11] has joined #lisp 17:20:50 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:22:53 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:23:09 -!- forgottenwizard is now known as ZombieChicken 17:26:00 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:27:38 sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:28:29 sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:29:52 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:01 -!- sfa [~sfa@208.66.156.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:30:55 jeppy` [~shh@cblmdm72-241-44-113.buckeyecom.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:41 -!- jeppy [~shh@cblmdm72-241-44-113.buckeyecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:31:48 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:34:19 jeppy [~shh@cblmdm72-241-44-113.buckeyecom.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:42 -!- jeppy` [~shh@cblmdm72-241-44-113.buckeyecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:36:42 CrazyEddy [~hauerite@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 17:38:26 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 17:38:38 cross [cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:35 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 17:52:18 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:54:02 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:54:46 sfa [~sfa@208.66.156.12] has joined #lisp 17:55:54 -!- jeppy [~shh@cblmdm72-241-44-113.buckeyecom.net] has quit [] 17:56:08 jeppy [~shh@cblmdm72-241-44-113.buckeyecom.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:21 jeppy` [~shh@cblmdm72-241-44-113.buckeyecom.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:41 -!- zacts is now known as ls|less 17:57:51 -!- ls|less is now known as zacts 18:00:23 -!- jeppy [~shh@cblmdm72-241-44-113.buckeyecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:02:57 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:11 vince` [~user@cpe-24-58-63-56.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:38 karswell [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:06:21 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 18:07:12 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:05 -!- vince` [~user@cpe-24-58-63-56.twcny.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 18:13:33 vince` [~user@cpe-24-58-63-56.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:13:44 kruhft [~user@69.90.114.176] has joined #lisp 18:13:46 ceti331 [~doomlod@host86-171-15-248.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:14:01 -!- ceti331 [~doomlod@host86-171-15-248.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 18:14:03 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:16:11 -!- user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:16:25 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:17:41 hello 18:19:27 user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:24:41 I'm using the sb-bsd-sockets package, and I was wondering whether 18:24:41 there is a non-busy way to do a select on a list of sockets? 18:26:31 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.75.85] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:29:19 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-214-113.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 18:30:27 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0dce4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:01 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:11 vince`: you should be able to use the SERVE-EVENT thing that sbcl exposes 18:37:16 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:37:30 HG` [~HG@wprt-5d834930.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:49 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:38:03 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:06 also, check out usocket; it has a wait-for-input thing that works across many implementations 18:38:14 or iolib 18:38:29 i had no luck with sbcl's serve-event 18:38:59 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:27 it's weird in many places! (: 18:39:56 but I like that it had leaky async programming before all the cool kids did it (: 18:40:15 cabaire [~nobody@xdsl-78-35-177-114.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:40:16 not unblocking at the specified time out was weird indeed 18:41:13 -!- cabaire [~nobody@xdsl-78-35-177-114.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:42:34 cabaire [~nobody@xdsl-78-35-177-114.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:43:31 thanks 18:43:34 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:43:51 leoc [~leoc.git@p57AA6E9F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:28 hi. i've got a problem. i have an installed version of asdf which is getting loaded by ccl. and is causing problems with the 1.9 prelease. unfortunately, all the CL debian packages depend on the ASDF debian package, which is kinda dumb imo, so if i remove the ASDF Debian thing, then all those other packages go away. 18:45:40 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 18:45:50 faheem: don't use Debian lisp packages, I'd say 18:46:01 so, is there some way to stop the asdf debian package being loaded while keeping cl-asdf installed? 18:46:13 p_l: well, that's one way to go. 18:46:21 faheem: check in CCL's help for information on how to disable loading of init files 18:46:21 what's wrong with loading debian's asdf? 18:46:35 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-214-113.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:46:41 stassats`: apparently it's old enough to cause issues with CCL's copy 18:46:56 don't use ccl's copy then 18:47:16 p_l: yes, it gets loaded and then causes problmes 18:47:44 faheem: another way you could just modify the files added by cl-asdf to not load it for clozure 18:48:05 however, i don't remember how to deal with common-lisp-controller 18:48:29 p_l: I don't think c-l-controller is used any more 18:48:31 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:48:34 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:36 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:09 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 18:49:15 faheem: it's how debian loads its ASDF 18:49:24 iirc 18:49:33 i would have thought the simplest thing was to tell ccl not to load cl-asdf. i'm not really sure why it does. i didn't ask it to 18:49:49 asdf does that 18:50:03 p_l: maybe. i don't really understand the lisp loading mechanisms 18:50:33 you should rather load debians asdf first 18:50:44 stassats`: hmm, well, the first thing i did was (require 'asdf) which loads CCL's ASDF 18:50:47 stassats`: why? 18:51:06 because it will solve the problem 18:51:15 then when i do (require anythingelse) then Debian's ASDF gets loaded, and hell breaks loose 18:51:26 stassats`: don't see why 18:51:33 just do it and report back 18:51:44 stassats`: ok. and how do i do that? 18:51:55 load the file explicitly? 18:52:04 check the files installed by Debian, and load the asdf file explicitly 18:52:11 p_l: -ok 18:52:17 one sec 18:53:16 does -> (load #P"/usr/share/common-lisp/source/cl-asdf/asdf.lisp") 18:53:21 suffice? 18:53:24 should 18:53:27 p_l: ok 18:54:03 ok, then what? should I load the CCL ASDF or not? 18:54:20 you can try loading whatever else you want, I guess 18:54:37 to load CCL's you'll also need full path this time, I think 18:55:03 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:55:43 well, this time (require 'cl-rmath) loads with no errors. 18:56:28 just another example of asdf self-upgrading abomination 18:56:38 lol 18:56:53 i think in this case ASDF didn't upgrade ;) 18:57:18 p_l: yeah, if i do (require 'asdf) this time nothing happens, i suppose because ASDF is already loaded 18:57:50 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:57:50 what's (asdf:asdf-version)? 18:57:59 so, the question is how I handle this. use the debian ASDF? if so, what are the downsides? 18:58:03 stassats`: still 2.22 18:58:17 even if you do (require 'asdf)? 18:58:18 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-197-211-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 18:58:19 after running (require 'asdf) 18:58:21 stassats`: yes 18:58:39 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:58:41 because ASDF already registers itself as loaded 18:58:45 i suppose it sees asdf is loaded and does nothing, but i'm just guessing 18:58:46 right, require won't do nothing if if ASDF is in modules 18:59:45 one other reason to keep the debian asdf (or some other asdf) around is that not all CL implementations bundle ASDF afaik. 18:59:53 so one might need it for them 19:00:49 so, should i just load the debian asdf in the ccl init file, and hope for the best? will CCL get upset i'm not using their internal file? 19:00:59 it won't 19:01:06 stassats`: ok. good to know. 19:01:51 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.143.240] has quit [Quit: ...] 19:01:52 what is the command if any to see what external libraries are loaded? 19:01:54 faheem: well, I use QL, which already takes care of ASDF 19:02:07 p_l: right 19:02:48 p_l: actually, my init file loads ql, which promptly breaks in exactly the same way 19:02:58 well, it loaded before i commented it out 19:03:14 p_l: you don't have that problem? 19:03:15 QL probably expects newer ASDF and/or tried upgrading it 19:04:19 p_l: it looked to me like QL loaded the debian ASDF and then wackiness happened. i don't think it would try to upgrade on its own 19:04:41 it would be nice if debian upgraded ASDF though. 19:05:06 faheem: QL tended to upgrade ASDF, afaik, as part of ensuring a certain "standard" operating environmnent 19:05:19 p_l: ok. 19:05:36 faheem: when you do (require 'asdf) without loading the debian version first, what's the value of (asdf:asdf-version) 19:05:49 without doing anything, just (require 'asdf) and then (asdf:asdf-version) 19:05:54 stassats`: 2.28. that's the internal one 19:06:40 has anyone else noticed that 2.28 is slower to laod? 19:06:51 it is in fact slower 19:07:19 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-197-211-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 19:07:36 pjb: I was able to change cl-opencv.lisp to reflect a per user configuration, but I need to look for a library that it is in the cl-opencv directory, I don't want to install this liibrary globally or system-wide 19:07:55 svetlyak40wt_ [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 19:08:05 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:45 pjb: the path is pushed onto *foreign-library-directories* 19:09:28 pjb: suppose that cl-opencv should go into ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/ 19:10:03 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:04 looks like asdf tries to upgrade itself during (require 'cl-rmath) 19:11:17 and ends up downgrading 19:11:48 stassats`: huh, really? weird. 19:12:23 i'd have thought any attempt to load ASDF when it is already loaded would result in a no-op. 19:12:54 faheem: can you set (setf asdf:*verbose-out* t) before (require 'cl-rmath)? 19:13:17 (without loading debian's asdf, just (require 'asdf)) 19:13:39 stassats`: ok. one sec. 19:13:49 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:14:13 In this post (http://wandrian.net/2012-02-20-1958-lisp-daemons-with-sbcl.html), Mr. Martyanoff has (loop (sleep 10)) in the fresh SBCL daemon. Why is that needed? 19:14:27 it'll exit otherwise 19:14:37 Ah, thanks. 19:15:29 stassats`: it doesn't look any different. same error. you want me to paste? 19:15:34 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:51 no other output? 19:16:00 stassats`: not sure. let me paste 19:16:39 maybe swank's communication style could be set to nil instead, so taht the spwaning thread can also be used for swank 19:16:45 or better, do (trace asdf:upgrade-asdf) instead 19:16:54 stassats`: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135389 19:17:02 stassats`: ok. once sec 19:17:24 stassats`: first (require 'asdf) then (trace asdf:upgrade-asdf) then (require 'cl-rmath)? 19:17:33 correct 19:17:41 stassats`: one sec 19:18:05 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 19:19:15 stassats`: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135389#1 19:19:37 stassats`: i see there is a Calling (ASDF/UPGRADE:UPGRADE-ASDF) 19:19:44 not sure why it does that 19:20:16 because the authors thought that auto-upgrading is cool 19:20:28 stassats`: authors of what? 19:20:32 of asdf 19:20:36 stassats`: oh 19:20:44 stassats`: can it be turned off? 19:21:14 stassats`: so, is that why the debian ASDF gets loaded? 19:21:16 can you type (asdf:asdf-version) after the error appears? 19:21:20 just to make sure 19:21:23 stassats`: ok. once sec 19:21:40 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1222-101.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:19 bitonic [~user@dyn1222-101.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:22:21 it gives an error 19:22:36 stassats`: Error: Reader error: No external symbol named "ASDF-VERSION" in package # . 19:22:48 While executing: CCL::%PARSE-TOKEN, in process listener(1). 19:22:51 ok, looks like it failed to upgrade itself 19:22:58 stassats`: you want the whole transcript? 19:23:01 nope 19:23:16 that explains why there's no return of (ASDF/UPGRADE:UPGRADE-ASDF) 19:23:17 francisl [~anonymous@69.157.143.178] has joined #lisp 19:23:34 and i can see the backtrace in your mail 19:23:53 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.20.105] has joined #lisp 19:23:54 it's indeed failing during the upgrade itself 19:24:10 stassats`: ok. so, what should one do about this? 19:24:22 i mean, can one turn this feature off? 19:24:32 doesn't seem like it 19:24:36 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:24:40 stassats`: hmm. too bad 19:25:09 would someone tell me what is this cffi usage called? (defcfun "fun" (a (:pointer :void))) (fun '(list of things)), i couldn't find anything in cffi doc, it somehow does lisp to c array conversion but i want to know more! 19:26:01 http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/html_node/translate_002dto_002dforeign.html 19:26:14 http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/html_node/Foreign-Type-Translators.html#Foreign-Type-Translators 19:27:21 stassats`: so, just to be clear (i'm writing to the ccl list) the reason the Debian ASDF gets loaded is because of the auto upgrade feature? 19:27:27 right 19:27:35 stassats`: ok, thanks 19:28:03 stassats`: thanks alot! 19:28:22 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:28:46 one possibility is to load debian asdf first, then load ccl's asdf.lisp (no require) 19:28:56 but i wouldn't be surprised if it tried to downgrade itself anyway 19:29:18 stassats`: ok 19:29:21 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:29:58 stassats`: if i load the debian asdf in the init file, would that work? 19:30:03 snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has joined #lisp 19:30:05 well, but asdf upgrading is supposed to make life easier, so whatcha gonna do 19:30:18 faheem: it's asdf, i have no idea what would work 19:30:35 stassats`: ok. thanks for your help 19:31:11 -!- snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:31:29 -!- karswell [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33:05 youlysse` [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:34:21 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:35:22 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-154-86.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:35:27 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:36:20 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-154-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:36:24 -!- zejedi [~zejedi@108.222.222.199] has quit [] 19:37:38 karswell [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:41:46 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:45:55 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:46:53 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:48:27 -!- browndawg1 [~browndawg@117.201.83.252] has left #lisp 19:48:44 snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has joined #lisp 19:50:35 -!- snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:51:44 snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has joined #lisp 19:52:09 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:24 -!- snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:54:28 snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has joined #lisp 19:56:13 -!- snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:56:39 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:56:41 stassats`: i notice that if 2.22 is loaded, then neither requiring asdf or cl-rmath calls the auto-upgrade. is it possible this is something added post 2.22? 19:57:02 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 19:57:16 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:57:17 snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has joined #lisp 19:57:30 (require 'asdf) won't do a thing, since "ASDF" is already in *modules* 19:58:34 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.20.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:58:39 stassats`: yes, but if the internal copy of ASDF is loaded, isn't "ASDF" in *modules* too? 19:58:46 2.22 calls upgrading only if it can find something to load 19:58:55 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003b7a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:58:59 -!- snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:59:13 no, require is not used for upgrading 19:59:30 stassats`: ok, so the internal copy can find the external, but not vice versa? 19:59:36 right 19:59:49 stassats`: weird. any idea why? 19:59:50 the internal can only be loaded through REQUIRE 19:59:56 stassats`: ok. 20:00:07 snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has joined #lisp 20:00:59 so the external one doesn't try using require to find a more recent copy? 20:01:16 require isn't used by asdf 20:01:23 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:01:28 stassats`: oh. i see. 20:01:55 so the external one doesn't "know" about the internal one. 20:01:59 -!- snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:02:14 right 20:03:47 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:11 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 20:04:54 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-212-44.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:55 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:05:04 stassats`: ok, i'm posting a summary of all this to the ccl list, though they probably won't care 20:05:08 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-138.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:05:17 at any rate, it will be a record for me 20:05:24 -!- user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:05:48 user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:07:43 ``Erik [~erik@66-118-151-70.static.sagonet.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:07 So I'm wondering what my options are to make a child process created by SB-EXT:RUN-PROGRAM be killed if sbcl dies. Linux has prctl(2) and PR_SET_PDEATHSIG which has to be called in the child. I wonder if there's a Linux command already that takes command and args as arguments and set ups the process adequately before execing the passed command. 20:09:17 -!- mon_key` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10:08 mon_key` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:28 I wonder what shells do 20:12:20 -!- svetlyak40wt_ [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:54 tcr: usually you have creator of the process wait() for it 20:14:14 but that won't do that... hmm... 20:14:40 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:32 Octothorpe [~nobody@xdsl-78-35-173-113.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:15:42 -!- cabaire [~nobody@xdsl-78-35-177-114.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:15:43 aren't they killed automatically? 20:15:59 tcr: use systemd 20:16:09 lol 20:16:18 p_l: what's so funny ? 20:16:31 fe[nl]ix: suggesting systemd sounds like trolling 20:16:36 it's not 20:16:40 systemd is awesome 20:16:45 fe[nl]ix: in this case it won't kill the processes 20:17:03 ok, in some cases they're, but not in all 20:17:10 right, but the children remain in the same control group 20:17:12 not unless we're going with "have the SBCL run under a context manager" 20:17:33 and you can kill all the members of a control group when the leader process dies 20:17:54 tcr: or you can so what systemd does manually 20:17:57 fe[nl]ix: I'm assuming a generic case of "an app that I run from shell" 20:18:02 setup the control group, etc... 20:18:32 p_l: sbcl is not a generic case 20:19:06 tcr: usually when the shell dies, several other resources involved also die, iirc 20:19:15 which can trigger death of underlying apps 20:19:29 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 20:19:35 the problem with PR_SET_PDEATHSIG is that it's cleared by a fork 20:19:57 so a direct child gets that signal, but not lower level children 20:19:58 snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has joined #lisp 20:20:15 -!- user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:35 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:39 user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:21:32 that's a fair point, not an issue as of right now for me though 20:21:42 -!- snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:22:43 snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has joined #lisp 20:23:03 tcr: you need to make SBCL run as new session and process group leader, then all children will get a SIGHUP on termination of SBCL 20:23:04 then the easy thing would be to patch SBCL 20:23:35 the problem with that is that SIGHUP is ignorable 20:24:23 but if you audit the programs you'll be executing and you're sure they exit on SIGHUP, that wouldn't be a problem 20:24:27 -!- snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:25:08 and yes, you can also manually get yourself into a cgroup (quite easy) 20:25:33 snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has joined #lisp 20:26:24 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:37 -!- user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:26:57 user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:27:30 -!- snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:28:16 tcr: that said, if you want to do it in production, the best thing would be to use systemd 20:28:39 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 20:31:03 all I know about systemd is that it's another init system. Can you somehow talk to it have it create and govern arbitrary processes? 20:31:17 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-197-247-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Quit: ] 20:31:32 tcr: like with any other init system - write up the configuration for a service... 20:33:26 pnpuff [~dioxirane@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:33:45 In my case, I want to call gunzip or bunzip to uncompress a file for me. I think the worse-is-better solution right at hand is to write an exit hook which kills the client and not worry about sigkill. 20:33:58 s/client/child/ 20:36:36 oh, then it's easy 20:37:21 have the parent feed the child the file via stdin 20:37:38 if it dies, the pipe gets closed and gunzip exits 20:38:13 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:44 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:40:21 <|3b|> if i have a C function that accepts a pointer or integer for a particular argument, what is the most efficient way to specify that for cffi? 20:41:56 Defluo [~Defluo@unaffiliated/defluo] has joined #lisp 20:42:13 a pointer or integer? how does it tell them apart? 20:42:28 <|3b|> context from outside the function 20:42:42 stassats`: like ioctl 20:42:59 <|3b|> (yes, it is an ugly part of the API) 20:43:27 well, what about having two cffi functions? one with a pointer one with an integer? 20:44:02 |3b|: you specify that parameter as :long, then if you have a pointer you pass (cffi:pointer-address ptr) to it 20:44:37 <|3b|> preferably some way that would allow existing code to keep passing pointers 20:45:10 |3b|: or what stassats` says 20:45:11 looks a simple and pretty solution.. 20:45:30 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@137.164.79.11] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:45:34 snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has joined #lisp 20:45:44 *|3b|* isn't sure if separate functions would be convenient or not, since which it needs depends on other code, not just the particular call 20:46:04 |3b|: https://github.com/sionescu/iolib/blob/master/src/syscalls/ffi-functions-unix.lisp#L398 20:47:03 -!- snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:48:20 snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has joined #lisp 20:50:04 -!- snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:51:16 snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has joined #lisp 20:52:33 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-197-211-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:52:34 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:40 |3b|: are you github.com/3b/? if so, thanks! cl-opengl quite usefull and hope you don't mind me stealing a few macros :) 20:52:53 -!- snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:53:00 *|3b|* is 20:53:55 snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has joined #lisp 20:55:20 -!- snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:55:26 -!- pnpuff [~dioxirane@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has left #lisp 20:57:55 -!- gigamonkey [~user@50-1-84-225.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:59:22 shmore [~shmore@S01060026f31b5d58.hm.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:19 *drewc* wishes that people would ask if he is https://github.com/drewc ... just because folks seem to know that is me and do not have to ask :| 21:03:24 -!- antgreen_ [~green@207.112.118.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:03:25 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.220] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:06:21 antgreen_ [~green@207.112.118.212] has joined #lisp 21:06:53 zejedi [~zejedi@108.222.222.199] has joined #lisp 21:08:18 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:10:37 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:12:27 snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has joined #lisp 21:14:17 -!- snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:15:20 snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has joined #lisp 21:16:51 -!- snearch [~snearch@89.204.154.34] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:17:22 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:19:00 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 21:20:29 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:21:17 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:22:15 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:24:04 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 21:24:57 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 21:26:52 drewc: it's the price of fame. 21:28:14 zolk3ri1 [~Zol1ka@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 21:29:25 -!- francisl [~anonymous@69.157.143.178] has quit [Quit: francisl] 21:29:42 -!- youlysse` [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:32:00 -!- sdemarre [~serge@122.75-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:32:21 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:32:23 faheem: infame? 21:34:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:36:18 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:43 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:37 leoc` [~leoc.git@p57AA6581.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:24 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 21:42:11 -!- leoc [~leoc.git@p57AA6E9F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:44:06 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:06 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:09 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:45:12 -!- sfa [~sfa@208.66.156.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:47:32 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:47:45 -!- user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:48:11 user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:48:13 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:49:02 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 21:51:34 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 21:53:22 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:55:13 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:55:36 k0001 [~k0001@200.117.235.85] has joined #lisp 22:00:09 francisl [~anonymous@69.157.143.178] has joined #lisp 22:00:58 drewc: hopefully not 22:01:00 ngz [~user@254.83.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:37 Say, if I am running an instance of SBCL with detachtty, is there a way to connect to the instance and execute a function, for example, through the socket file? 22:01:50 you can use slime 22:02:42 In particular, I'm trying to write some small scripts in sbcl, but don't want to start a new SBCL process every time. 22:03:19 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:27 So I'd like to be able to execute the scripts in the already running process. In other words, I'd like some kind of tiny shell wrapper that will execute the actual script. 22:03:37 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-118.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:03:41 tigranes: #! scripts? 22:04:35 tigranes: assuming you have swank in the running process you could connect with slime 22:04:58 Bike: I got that part, but that would require me to be the one doing things manually. 22:04:59 why can't you start a new SBCL process every time? 22:05:08 tigranes: which OS, and what do you mean by script? 22:05:22 "When you want to connect to the process, attachtty attaches to the 22:05:23 unix-domain socket and copies input/output to and from you. " 22:05:53 one instance will retain all the state and whatnot 22:05:54 tigranes: no, it just means you use something you write to connect to sbcl in the #!, rather than sbcl, yeah? 22:05:58 In this particular instance, I'd like to write a notification script for mcabber events that bings and sends a GNOME notification. I could receive 10 messages in a second, I don't want to start 10 SBCL processes. 22:06:16 will be more trouble than starting a new one 22:06:31 prxq: Sorry, Fedora and, yes, shell script. 22:06:56 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:07:00 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 22:07:15 so, what does "echo '(sb-ext:quit)' | attachtty ..." do? 22:07:35 tigranes: common experience suggests that you may be doing premature optimization. Have you tried just starting a new one each time? Does it really cause problems? 22:08:07 drewc: Wow, that's simple! Thanks! 22:08:10 if so, you could also try clisp, which has a much smaller footprint and (i've heard) shorter startup times. 22:08:33 fwiw I agree with prxq and Bike, and you should not do that at all, but you want to learn, so there you go ) 22:08:35 :) 22:09:24 prxq: I was using clisp, but it seemed like it was causing (not entirely sure, though) lots of swapping and high CPU loads 22:09:35 *drewc* has an sbcl compiled with all his libs in it, and startup time is not a problem at all. 22:10:03 prxq: a core loads very quickly, especially if it's in cache. init files can slow things down a lot. 22:10:38 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 22:10:48 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:10:54 pkhuong: true 22:11:56 So, what I'm getting here is that doing scripting with lisp is common for people here, and I should not be having problems with it. Which means that I need to take a second look at my script and see why it's causing problems. 22:12:06 tigranes: just from the sounds of it, either you have a slow machine with a very small amount of RAM, or high cpu and lots of swapping is due to the program you are running rather than `clisp` itself... I do not like clisp itself for other reasons that have little to do with RAM and CPU usage. 22:12:50 tigranes: i use sbcl for scripting, with saved images with everything in them 22:13:09 drewc: My machine should be fast enough: Core 2 Duo ~2.5GHz with 4GB RAM, so I'm guessing the latter. 22:13:39 stassats`: I will try that now. I do all other work in SBCL, just used clisp for the scripts becuase I thought it would be faster. 22:14:31 In conclusion, thank you all for the help :) 22:14:39 tigranes: much faster and more RAM then my Raspberry PI, so I would guess on the latter as well , as my Raspberry PI is fast and full of RAM imo :) 22:15:08 sfa [~sfa@208.66.156.12] has joined #lisp 22:15:30 That's nifty! 22:15:36 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:55 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 22:17:05 i use ,restart-inferior-lisp too much, guess it is about being a newbie, which would hopefully get better in time... 22:17:26 there's nothing to be ashamed of when using ,restart-inferior-lisp 22:19:28 stassats`: right now it solves most of my problems, it is my hammer! 22:21:40 -!- solvip [~solvip@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:21:40 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:22:28 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:23:09 *drewc* thinks it is much better than the RESTART-LISP that is(n't) in the standard ;) 22:23:27 solvip [~solvip@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has joined #lisp 22:23:36 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:28:02 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:11 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:03 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 22:34:24 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:35:32 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.220] has joined #lisp 22:37:19 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 22:38:03 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-22-251.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 22:43:01 -!- antgreen_ [~green@207.112.118.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:43:21 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:36 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1222-101.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:46:43 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.220] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:32 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279585004.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:00 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:50:24 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 22:52:13 antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has joined #lisp 22:55:01 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:57:23 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:59:56 -!- antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:01:48 antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has joined #lisp 23:03:32 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:18 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:06:26 reckler [~reckler@ppp118-208-53-131.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:59 hi 23:08:27 please where is it supposed to add a custom path for ql:*local-project-directories*? 23:09:36 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:10 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:03 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:15:13 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 23:16:19 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-154-86.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:16:37 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:51 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-098-068-181.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:03 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-154-54.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:19:20 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-022-205.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:20:52 -!- antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:22:54 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-098-068-181.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:23:51 antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has joined #lisp 23:26:07 -!- ngz [~user@254.83.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:26:36 -!- techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:27:24 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-211.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:41 techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has joined #lisp 23:28:28 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:29:16 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:38 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:20 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:36 -!- karswell [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:51 karswell [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:31:58 -!- agumonkey [~agu@138.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:32:02 bitonic [~user@027b68b8.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:14 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 23:32:15 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0dce4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:32:32 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9938.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:34:39 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:36:37 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-118.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:38 -!- HG` [~HG@wprt-5d834930.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 23:41:22 please help, I'm trying to add a path to cffi:*foreign-library-directories* 23:41:29 urandom__ [~user@p548A1C60.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:19 Posterdati: does puhsnew not work? 23:42:58 prxq: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135393 23:43:39 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 23:43:40 I've got: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135393#1 23:44:12 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A1C60.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:44:40 Posterdati: ...and? Looks reasonable 23:44:58 prxq: it won't find the foreign library, if I use (pushnew #p"~/Development/lisp/cl-opencv/glue/" cffi:*..... ) 23:45:03 it works 23:45:58 :name "dists/quicklisp/software/cl-opencv/glue/" is incorrect 23:46:12 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:52 why? 23:48:19 ah ok, I understand 23:48:50 didn't work either 23:50:12 Speaking of quicklisp, where do y'all generally put it? ~/quicklisp seems untidy, ~/src/lisp/quicklisp/ interferes with personal projects... Do people re-create /usr hierarchy with ~/src, ~/include, etc.? 23:50:39 tigranes: i leave it in ~/quicklisp 23:50:56 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:50:58 prxq: any hints? 23:53:56 prxq: Fair enough, thanks 23:54:21 include really wouldn't make much sense for quicklisp, anyway 23:55:25 Posterdati: frankly, no idea. If the files are in those dirs, it should work. 23:55:39 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:55:58 yes they are, but why if I pushnew the complete path it works? 23:56:32 Posterdati: (pushnew (asdf:system-relative-pathname :cl-opencv #p"glue/") cffi:*foreign-library-directories* :test #'equal) 23:56:59 that's the proper way to do it 23:57:05 ok 23:58:03 fe[nl]ix: it worked! thanks 23:58:46 so it will automatically consider the proper cl-opencv installation! Good! 23:59:25 cffi:define-foreign-library should probably be enhanced for this use case