00:00:09 I just made a basic tree library 00:00:25 I think the code could be prettier, but since I'm a complete newbie 00:01:43 -!- jsucsy [~jsucsy@38.108.127.66] has left #lisp 00:03:52 -!- npi [~quassel@bl10-73-232.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:56 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 00:07:01 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:08:29 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:00 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-174-91.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:12:12 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:01 ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.79] has joined #lisp 00:16:38 *jasom* just used prog2 00:16:45 I think that's a first 00:18:11 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:18:22 -!- newblue [~newblue@183.46.81.210] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:20:45 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:20:48 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:21:18 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:23:00 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:24:15 jasom: quite useful for parsers! Well ... at least, the implementation of something similar is one I use all the time. 00:24:31 drewc: actually it was =prog2 so ... 00:24:40 same here 00:25:18 zejedi [~zejedi@108.222.222.199] has joined #lisp 00:25:29 well, then you know exactly what I was going to say :) 00:25:39 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:29:27 and note that it does not return "as its only value the primary value yielded by first-form" like the CLHS says to! :P 00:29:36 -!- Shluck [~luke_wals@hill-d-097.resnet.purdue.edu] has quit [Quit: Shluck] 00:32:30 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-5f733897.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:33:12 -!- karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:34:06 karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:36:06 -!- agumonkey [~agu@138.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:41:51 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-214-113.unitymediagroup.de] 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flying [~flying@ckc-110-226.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 02:05:26 hello 02:06:11 -!- flying is now known as flyingyellow 02:06:51 I've been doing some of the Project Euler challenges with Common Lisp to try to get familiar with them 02:06:54 sarcasmus [~univyrse@71-82-19-203.static.mtgm.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:07:01 so 02:07:05 LiamH [~none@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 02:07:11 would anyone mind looking over my solutions for the first few 02:07:15 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:23 sure, paste.lisp.org 02:07:40 pg is a great lisper. a great businessman, and a godly investor, but he doesn't offer much as a teacher 02:07:58 ANSI Common Lisp's chapter 7 has completely gone off the rails for me 02:08:34 http://paste.lisp.org/display/135227 02:09:38 they all work but I want to make sure I'm not doing something stupidly wrong in the process 02:10:00 sarcasmus: he has a lisp style which is often looked down upon. he shuns CLOS, which isn't always good. 02:11:56 flyingyellow: looks fine to me other than a few minor style things (for problem-3 just write largest-common-factor and feed it 600851475143, use when instead of if if you don't care about the alternative, etc) 02:11:57 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.236.201] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:12:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.223.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:12:52 flyingyellow: isqrt is more accurate than (floor sqrt), especially given that you may get single floats by default. 02:13:20 flyingyellow: and as far as I know, your palindromep will only work if *print-base* is 10. Which is default and sane and usually unchanged, but not guaranteed ^^ 02:13:42 flyingyellow: do isn't exactly easy on the eyes, the alternative loop statement is mostly always simpler to read. 02:13:46 maybe they want to know if it's a palindrome in base 16! 02:14:00 haha okay 02:14:05 i'll revise the solutions 02:14:26 flyingyellow: it mostly looks sane to me 02:14:26 flyingyellow: you can try to rewrite palindromep by doing the arithmetic yourself. It's probably a better exercise too. 02:15:14 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 02:15:31 mad you are still on my ignore, but i checked my log to see what you said, and I actually didn't make it to CLOS yet. his random ass functions are strange, and he leaves a lot of things unexplained, which isn't very helpful also unmuting you for now to converse 02:15:44 pkhuong I'll probably try that as an exercise in the future 02:15:56 bike_ is using WHEN the standard, even when an IF would do? 02:16:12 i try to use cond instead of if and when whenever I can 02:16:15 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:17 but thats just me 02:16:24 flyingyellow: fwiw 1) has a nice quick expression, using the triangular number formula and the usual trick to count unions of sets (|A U B| = |A| + |B| - |A inter B|). 02:16:31 I hear the words "you're wrong" a lot 02:17:05 flyingyellow: well plenty of people use if with one condition, but i think when is considered a bit more standard for one result and only doing it for side effect. 02:17:25 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:23 sarcasmus: srsly lame 02:18:58 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:26 flyingyellow: the DO are a bit unidiomatic. Most people usually stick to dotimes, loop and custom do-foo macros. The one for problem-4 is really weird, for instance. I'd just go for a nested loop. 02:20:08 flyingyellow: also, incf instead of (setf x (+ x i)) 02:20:14 madnificent, cond is cool man, so chill 02:20:43 mns [~mns@c-24-63-48-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:02 hahahaha yea the problem-4 do is pretty strange but i'm not used to how the functions/macros return their values so I thought it'd be better to mangle it in a way I knew it would work than in a way I didn't :x 02:21:28 sarcasmus: i'm not talking about cond :) though when, unless, and if have their place. whatever explains the intention best, is what i try to use. 02:21:41 huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.236.201] has joined #lisp 02:22:19 i just like the idea of using one conditional for everything, since its usually trivial anyways. but anyways 02:22:59 i still worship pg, but i've come to terms with the fact that some of his shit is backwards and zany, and i got gentle intro and im trying to get to where I was at in ACL 02:23:01 thank you all very much, I'm going to grab dinner and come right back 02:23:16 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.236.201] has quit [Client Quit] 02:23:31 sarcasmus: practical common lisp is a good practical book too 02:23:52 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:24:57 i really hate seibel 02:25:25 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 02:25:41 and "practical" anything is not what I want. i dont want to learn what everyone is doing, i want to learn the language so that I can do what *I* want to do 02:25:43 huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.236.201] has joined #lisp 02:26:15 hi. I'm a noob, but I'm working on a small scenegraph engine for Common Lisp. If anyone wants to check it out, here it is: https://github.com/Denommus/spaceinvaders-lisp 02:26:26 someone who hates Seibel and worships pg? I cannot wait to see the results! 02:26:34 after this space invaders clone is ready, I'll place everything from the engine on a separated module 02:26:35 Does anyone have clisp built from source on Debian/wheezy ? It seems to compile but when I run the tests, it fails. 02:27:06 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:27:31 or is this not the right group to ask such questions in ? 02:28:11 when seibel is a multi millionaire investment wizard alongside the father of web applications, i might decide to give half a shit about him 02:28:30 mns: have you tried an older version? 02:29:02 sarcasmus: egocentric, you know how to do it! 02:29:08 *drewc* sees the results! and cares about lisp more then money, so will depart. 02:29:41 dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-180-56.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:46 i mean shit, the man does not even have a wikipedia page 02:29:51 hi 02:30:03 egocentric isnt really the same as forward or blunt 02:30:08 what's a good library for interthread and/or interprocess message passing in CL ? 02:30:20 its just a word you toss around to feign superiority 02:30:52 Denommus: I have, but from what I understand, the clisp from source is what I need to get stumpwm built correctly because it needs the clx/new-clx modules with the fixes that are in 1.50 rather then the 1.49 that is part of Debian. 02:31:16 sarcasmus: indeed it isn't! 02:31:21 mns: what about SBCL? 02:31:26 what clisp 1.50 released? 02:31:30 i wish sbcl would take an initiative and adopt quicklisp and officially integrate it 02:31:35 that would be really swell 02:31:43 (only to be clear, I actually couldn't manage to run stumpwm :() 02:31:50 Fare: sykopomp wrote one in the past, but it used streams. i jotted my own together and it wasn't terribly complex (but old and not pretty). i think i heard something related to message passing and lparallel recently, perhaps check the api again to doubl-check? 02:31:52 ok, smile inside parentesis is ugly 02:31:53 sarcasmus: what would integrating it entail? 02:32:02 seerhut_ [~seerhut@121.197.1.189] has joined #lisp 02:32:14 just ensuring that it is shipped and maintained 02:32:15 mns: i think you can use portable-clx from quicklisp? (also, #stumpwm exists) 02:32:23 ^ 02:32:45 clisp still ships with asdf 2.011 -- that's antique in asdf times. :-( 02:32:57 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 02:33:12 if they shipped and maintained quicklisp, I think a lot of people would be more eager to start building things in lisp knowing that they can distribute their work rather painlessly 02:33:16 mns: stumpwm is in quicklisp and it works under SBCL (else i wouldn't have frames on this machine) 02:33:17 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:31 madnificent: they're trying to use clisp 02:33:34 sarcasmus: but installing quicklisp is quit painless 02:33:37 not that they arent eager already, but i think a significant influence could be made 02:33:41 Fare: I enjoyed the 'fix the clisp tests that pass so that they pass' on the ml today :) 02:33:45 denommus, I'm not saying it' 02:33:48 it isnt 02:33:52 -!- seerhut [~seerhut@121.197.1.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:33:59 A quick look at lparallel and it looks like it's trying to do too much, and not exposing the kind of API I like -- but it's not clear from the (lack of) docs whether it has what I need underneath or not 02:34:03 s/quit/quite/ 02:34:12 but it could use some more attention for sure, and sbcl is THE lisp right now 02:34:25 clisp -I does weird things to clisp, it appears 02:34:26 and it would almost guarantee that QL has a steadier dev cycle 02:34:43 Denommus: SBCL I'm sure will work .. I used to have it working on my previous laptop (thinkPad). I just want something with a smaller memory footprint which clisp does compared to sbcl. 02:34:52 sarcasmus: you haven't been around the lisp world for long, have you? 02:34:56 I'm glad this asdf 2.27 (now 2.28) thing is released at long last. 02:35:04 now to get it in sbcl, etc. 02:35:15 bike: yes I know about #stumpwm but this was more about building clisp from source, rather then stumpwm. 02:35:20 im not sure what you're implying madnificent 02:35:22 mns: any particular reason to use clisp? i don't have it installed here, so it's a tad harder to test. 02:35:50 Fare: I assume sbcl-specific stuff is out of the question. 02:35:52 sarcasmus: i'm implying that quicklisp has an awesome development cycle and that i have had nothing to complain about since the first beta got released. 02:36:08 ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:10 pkhuong, I don't understand your remark 02:36:42 so what does that have to do with my "experience" in the "lisp world"? 02:36:47 sarcasmus: i'm also implying that i'm not entirely certain that i should value your words. have you earned hundreds of thousands in investments, i recently heard that people aren't worth listening to if they haven't done that. 02:36:56 Fare: for whatever it is that lparallel doesn't expose. 02:37:01 do you mean that sbcl will not upgrade its asdf because asdf include sb-c:: internals? 02:37:14 im not asking you to value my words. if it makes you feel better, i dont value your words one bit. 02:37:29 im only contributing to chat because im here and chat is here 02:37:40 pkhuong, I fear for that particular library, I need to support at least CCL, too -- but SBCL internals could be useful if they provide a good API. 02:37:43 sarcasmus: making an analogy with Ruby, I think quicklisp is more similar to bundler than it is similar to RubyGem. And bundler isn't integrated into Ruby 02:37:53 especially one where you can wait w/o busy-waiting for a message. 02:38:04 I don't see why it should 02:38:09 madnificent: smaller memory footprint compared to sbcl, at least based on top output. I don't know its more a subjective, personal thing. I just prefer clisp, makes me recall a neural network project in which we had something called clisp :) 02:38:27 denommus, to some degree, I can understand, but asdf install is rubygems, and its mostly extinct 02:38:30 my fallback plan is to use Unix pipes for workers to communicate with the master, and have the master use select or something. 02:38:46 Is there a library that does select in CL w/o requiring libfixposix ? 02:39:00 sarcasmus: I think quicklisp works on top of asdf install, but I'm not quite sure 02:39:02 I suppose in this project, I could use IOLib, actually. 02:39:05 just like bundler 02:39:08 pretty sure it does 02:39:40 mns: :) ok then :) i'll temporarily be of little help then. good luck. 02:39:41 but the point is, ruby is popular because it goes out of the way to make things simple and convenient. lisp doesnt have simple, but it does have convenience 02:39:45 Fare: you could do simple bindings for http://nanomsg.org/ perhaps? 02:39:53 sarcasmus, Denommus: It works on top of asdf, not asdf-install, which is very dead. 02:40:04 lol madnificent .. no worries. 02:40:19 Denommus: nay, it does not at all, asdf-install is long gone 02:40:19 -!- zulu_inuoe_ [~quassel@184.89.111.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:40:25 minion: asdf-install? 02:40:29 asdf-install: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/asdf-install 02:41:12 hrm ... still no fix for minion and the new cliki eh? 02:41:13 Fare: outside linux and fbsd, all of sbcl's locking is based on atomic operations and busy waiting with backoff. 02:41:20 *drewc* puts it on his TODO 02:41:37 sarcasmus: well, I'm pretty newbie to Common Lisp, and while it's confusing at first (because of system vs packages vs modules), it's quite easy to "package" everything up once you get used to it 02:41:44 Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 02:41:58 also, quickproject 02:42:04 zulu_inuoe_ [~quassel@184.89.111.53] has joined #lisp 02:42:08 pkhuong, for locking, that's fine. But what about message-passing? 02:42:15 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p54839872.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:42:21 im even newer than you, so maybe thats a contributing factor to my initiative 02:42:24 a surface look at calispel looks promising 02:42:32 Fare: atomic queues + locking. 02:42:42 either way, the more the merrier. sbcl and quicklisp should still mate 02:42:45 sarcasmus: I started in January, so... yeah, my experience really doesn't count 02:43:02 shit I started november, but I learn really slow 02:43:17 and i work in the day so i dont really have as much time etc 02:43:40 (ql:quickload "quickproject") (ql:quickproject "/home/quicklisp/local-projects/") 02:43:52 you have an application skeleton, ready to use 02:44:15 -!- LiamH [~none@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:44:19 I also work in the day. I'm just having some free time because I'm in-between projects 02:44:23 anyway, I gotta sleep 02:44:25 bye 02:44:28 bye 02:44:30 goodnight Denommus 02:44:48 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Quit: going to sleep] 02:44:48 -!- zulu_inuoe_ [~quassel@184.89.111.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:45:00 rainbow parens are way way underhyped 02:45:10 it's actually quickproject:quickproject 02:45:34 zulu_inuoe_ [~quassel@184.89.111.53] has joined #lisp 02:46:34 -!- zulu_inuoe_ [~quassel@184.89.111.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:59 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:47:01 god the seibel propaganda alone deters me somewhat from QL 02:47:18 Bike: quickproject:make-project :) 02:47:28 ered-away [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:31 -!- ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:48:02 and I wish the packages linked to like a markup wiki or something, it's kind of obnoxious trying to see if a library exists for something 02:48:09 zulu_inuoe_ [~quassel@184.89.111.53] has joined #lisp 02:48:12 -!- df_ [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:48:18 bah. 02:48:33 mindcruzer [~mindcruze@149.255.33.155] has joined #lisp 02:48:38 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:49 really i just wish people named their libraries non-stupid names. that would solve the problem too 02:49:31 df_ [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:37 pkhuong, but how do you wait on a queue, beside polling? 02:51:33 -!- mns [~mns@c-24-63-48-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:51:50 Fare: outside linux/fbsd, clever polling is all that SBCL does. 02:53:26 im out of here, goodnight 02:53:30 -!- sarcasmus [~univyrse@71-82-19-203.static.mtgm.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:54:13 ok, I really want something portable based on pipes and/or unix sockets, then. 02:54:13 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:17 Fare: can't you create a lock. hold it in the thread that creates data, and release the lock once data is available? 02:54:19 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:56 Fare: https://github.com/sykopomp/chanl is what i was referring to earlier 02:55:01 that's ok if you're only waiting for one thread to talk only 02:55:10 madnificent, thanks 02:55:24 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.246.223] has joined #lisp 02:58:01 Fare: a message-box could abstract the fact that multiple threads are talking. a lock could serve as a way to drop data in into the message box too. then again, you'd be reimplementing something someone has done before. 02:59:13 yup, I'd rather not reimplement if anyone has done it decently. 02:59:29 I don't like multiplying 50% libraries. 02:59:41 I believe in 100% libraries. 02:59:56 (which explains my recent obsession with asdf 2.27) 03:00:18 waveman [~tim@CPE-124-187-129-127.lns15.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:00:35 (and reminds me I need to implement that deferred warnings thing on allegro, clisp, cmucl, scl, abcl, lispworks) 03:01:35 -!- mindcruzer [~mindcruze@149.255.33.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:02:18 LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 03:04:44 -!- waveman [~tim@CPE-124-187-129-127.lns15.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 03:05:04 waveman [~tim@CPE-124-187-129-127.lns15.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:15:49 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53fec.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:36 -!- Tanami [~carnage@ppp118-210-114-24.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:17:51 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:22 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 03:19:13 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 03:21:41 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:23:40 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:06 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.236.201] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:30:58 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:32:19 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:32:28 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:32 k0001 [~k0001@host38.190-224-60.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 03:35:56 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:00 Fare: hey. 03:36:24 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.131.25] has quit [Quit: ...] 03:36:38 Fare: i'm going to port some of my csound audio-synth stuff from elisp into CL. 03:38:20 nice 03:38:22 gtg 03:38:28 ok. 03:38:28 -!- Fare 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[~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:01:28 huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.236.201] has joined #lisp 08:04:51 hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:04:51 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:04:51 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:05:01 is there a standard function for equality up to truth, i.e. xnor, i.e. (if x y (not y))? 08:07:50 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:08:03 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.34.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:08:42 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.111.135] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:12:52 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:13:52 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp-218-73-wifi.yandex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:05 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.236.201] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:14:27 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-171-15-248.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:15:23 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:16:22 -!- suodla [~suodla@210.24.42.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:16:42 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 08:17:00 bike: (AND X (NOT Y)) 08:17:24 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:17:39 or sorry 08:18:19 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.86.219] has joined #lisp 08:19:07 suodla [~suodla@210.24.42.190] has joined #lisp 08:19:09 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:13 (or x (not y)) won't return y when x is non-nil 08:19:40 puufar [~puufar@1.158.195.65] has joined #lisp 08:19:45 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:20:17 -!- k-stz` [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-087.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:20:25 I don't care about the result other than its truthiness. But neither (and t (not t)) => NIL or (or t (not nil)) => T are what I want anyway. 08:20:52 (funcall (if x #'identity #'(lambda (n) (not n))) y) 08:21:21 #'not 08:21:32 oops 08:21:36 not is a function not a macro 08:21:46 (funcall (if x #'identity #'not) y) 08:21:50 that'll do it 08:21:57 ok, i get the point. thanks. 08:22:59 To me, that solution actually shows what's going on much better than the other code. Perhaps that's because I have a problem decoding boolean logic. 08:23:30 i'll just add a "same up to truthiness" comment. 08:23:48 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.92.1] 08:24:19 Bike: what's the logic table you want? 08:24:51 (or (and x y) (and (not x) (not y))) ; how is that different from xor? 08:24:52 that's how I interpret your if. 08:24:54 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:25:12 1 1 => 1, 1 0 => 0, 0 1 => 0, 0 0 => 1. it's xnor. 08:25:41 so, yes, yours works. 08:26:26 xor would be the negation of yours, o'course. 08:28:42 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp-218-73-wifi.yandex.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:54 Tanami [~carnage@ppp118-210-114-24.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:10 rmathews_ [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 08:32:42 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:33:39 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:33:40 -!- rmathews_ is now known as rmathews 08:35:24 so i've defined functions of the form (defun (setf robot) ...), can i define a macro to be used with setf? 08:35:50 what do you mean a macro? 08:36:41 huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.236.201] has joined #lisp 08:37:38 hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:42:39 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:42:45 -!- techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:44:14 Bike: right, sorry for the confusion. 08:44:14 robot-beethoven: probably not. Your question is not clear, so it's probably no. 08:44:14 What do you want to do? 08:44:15 ogamita: i'm trying to define something that will work like (setf (robot list-of-keys) value), that selects a path down a tree of plists by cdring down the list-of-keys, and then mutates the value at the end... so far i'm thinking of a bunch of nested getfs, such as (setf (getf (getf *plist* :key1) :key2) value)... 08:44:15 See http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/190d771c0e033a1c 08:44:16 hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:45:16 In the worst case you may have to use get-setf-expansion in a define-setf-expander, but it's really rare to have to use them. 08:45:37 Bike: because i'm having trouble thinking up another convenient way to generate all the nested GETFs ;) 08:45:41 robot-beethoven: maybe look at defsetf and define-setf-expander, i'm still not sure why (defun (setf robot) ...) isn't working for you though. 08:46:42 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:47:41 techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has joined #lisp 08:48:39 (let ((keys '(:a :b :c)) (core-value-var 'ppplist)) (loop for form = core-value-var then `(,key ,form) for key in (reverse keys) finally (return form))) 08:48:43 as far as i see it, the nested GETFs are necessary... i can't just SETF an inner property, because if that property doesn't exist, the SETF will just cons it onto the inner plist, while the parent plists won't know about it 08:48:57 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: warning] 08:49:15 Well, for getf: (let ((keys '(:a :b :c)) (core-value-var 'ppplist)) (loop for form = core-value-var then `(getf ,form ,key) for key in (reverse keys) finally (return form))) --> (getf (getf (getf ppplist :c) :b) :a) 08:50:44 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.236.201] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:51:32 bitonic [~user@5e0cec8f.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 08:51:42 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host35.186-125-108.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:52:48 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 08:53:07 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:37 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: halluzinations] 08:56:08 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:57:21 ogamita: that generates the expression i want, but i don't see how to connect it to setf... is it possible? so i can use (setf (ppplist :a :b :c) value)? 08:57:39 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:57:59 robot-beethoven: use define-setf-expander 08:58:55 defsetf should also work... 08:58:58 Ah, well, you can also define a macro: (defmacro walk-getfs (var &rest keys) `(getf )) and use it in (setf (walk-getfs ppplist :a :b :c) ) 08:59:07 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.187.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:59:25 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.187.38] has joined #lisp 08:59:36 I wouldn't consider it great style, but it's ok. 09:00:31 -!- puufar [~puufar@1.158.195.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:01:36 -!- flyingyellow [~flying@ckc-110-226.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:02:49 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:01 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 09:04:27 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:47 hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 09:05:26 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:06:55 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 09:07:21 puufar [~puufar@1.158.195.65] has joined #lisp 09:07:24 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:58 -!- nostoi 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[dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 10:45:39 why is it (null '()) and not (nullp ... ) ? 10:45:50 historical reasons 10:46:22 null is the type containing nil. 10:46:43 So, null is a predicate testing for that type membership. 10:47:03 Zhivago: string is a type for strings, but its test is stringp 10:47:49 the same goes with integerp, vectorp, complexp 10:49:07 I kind of miss the (null? ) of Scheme. 10:49:38 It feels more consistent, but I don't want to start a flame war or anything. 10:50:18 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:50:52 cfy` [~ilisp@115.195.179.203] has joined #lisp 10:53:49 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:17 -!- ogamita [~t@host.34.193.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:53 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:58:18 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:04:33 ogamita [~t@host.34.193.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com] has joined #lisp 11:09:02 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 11:10:59 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-5f733897.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:22:11 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.161.84] has joined #lisp 11:24:27 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.236.201] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:24:48 impaktor: (null ...) 11:24:58 *hydan* wonders why people do not create their own macros for when they really miss something.. heck, even before-save-hook would do to convert that kind of stuff. 11:25:00 oh, sorry, didn't read.. 11:25:12 agumonkey [~agu@138.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:26:29 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.248] has joined #lisp 11:26:33 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.248] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:26:40 hydan: cause "useless" macros make it ahrder to read other peoples code .. 11:26:54 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.248] has joined #lisp 11:26:59 hydan: like the crazy person who made a macro for (lambda (...) ...) ... 11:26:59 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.248] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:28:06 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.248] has joined #lisp 11:30:13 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:30:38 Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 11:31:18 zorkmoid: of course, but before-save-hook & co. go both ways when you are 'really missing' something.. then again one should care enough to use emacs and write them. 11:32:27 hydan: i'd rather use emacs macros than have emacs operate on the source code when loading or saving. 11:33:09 > the crazy person who made a macro for (lambda (...) ...) ... 11:33:12 *stassats* uses M-x clos-slots instead of defclass* 11:33:20 I'm pretty sure there are a few dozens :) 11:33:54 H4ns: point taken. 11:33:57 -!- Dalek_Baldwin 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seconds] 13:04:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:05:47 huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.236.201] has joined #lisp 13:06:40 zorkmoid: This is wrong. hydan: cause "useless" macros make it ahrder to read other peoples code .. 13:07:26 zorkmoid: people don't understand any more code with "standardized" operators than code using application specific operators. They just believe they understand it better. 13:07:36 zorkmoid: to wit, all the misconceptions people have about C. 13:07:57 There is actually a significant difference. 13:08:17 This is only belief. In pratice there's no difference. 13:08:36 If you need to dive into some random code written by some random person that you haven't seen before, it's a significant expense. 13:08:36 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:08:37 qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 13:08:44 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:08:54 I'd even say that in practice, the local macro or function is better, because you can get the sources, while you rarely fetch the sources of the compiler or the text of the standard to check what + does. 13:09:01 ogamita: of course there is a difference, wrapping standard functions around useless macros makes code significantly harder to read 13:09:04 If your team is small and you don't have that problem, then it's probably fine, since you'll already have learnt all of the insane extensions. 13:09:16 It's like people writing stupid macros in C, for example. 13:09:19 Why "insane"? 13:09:28 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09:51 If you choose your words wisely, it should read better, and therefore be better understood, even by programmers new on that code. 13:09:52 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53fec.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 13:10:00 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:21 In any case, that's what I feel when I read lisp code: macros are a good thing, and let me better understand what's happening. 13:10:22 any abstraction introduced into code should fulfill a purpose that enhances readability. abstraction is solely there to make it possible to understand code. computers don't need abstractions. 13:10:23 ogamita: what is easier, #l(x)(+ x x) or (lambda (x) (+ x x))? 13:10:34 H4ns: exactly. 13:10:41 You can write language extensions that aren't incredibly horrible, but there is always a cost associated. 13:10:59 zorkmoid: this is a reader macro, here the situation is a little different. 13:11:56 But mostly, you must also consider the operator (or reader macro) not in isolation, but in the context of the other operators. Perhaps alone you may not justify it, but along with a well designed set of operators, it builds a nice DSL that let you read and write better this program. 13:12:08 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 13:12:23 ogamita: not really, if you have someone using  over null cause ... well, whatever, it makes code harder to read. 13:12:25 I'm an advocate of macrolet for that, too. 13:12:54 (yes, ive seen people use  for null ... sighs) 13:13:06 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@90.168.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:13:32 Or  as in AIM-8 :-) 13:14:11 aim-8 didn't have things sorted out just yet .. 13:14:11 zorkmoid: but mainly, if you're writting eg. grammar stuff, you use , not nil. 13:14:44 zorkmoid: or you could argue that lisp is only the first step on the path traced by AIM-8 :-) 13:14:50 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 13:14:52 ogamita: you are arguing for using dsl specific syntax, that is fine, i'm talking about useless macros like replacing instances of null with  just casue ... 13:15:29 Again, it's in the language of grammars. 13:15:43 DSLs are good, if well designed, once learned. 13:15:52 *stassats* has a set of reader macro which allow to do {n   : (< n 3)} => (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8) 13:15:59 Kvaks [~kvaks@90.168.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 13:16:00 In a parser generator, or other grammar processing program, there's no problem with . Other domains use it too. 13:16:07 But they generally aren't, and learning them is overhead. 13:16:23 So it favours small teams working with deep knowledge. 13:16:23 or  k = 1  20 (/ k 2) ;=> 105 13:16:32 Well, overhead that's learned in school long before they are thinking of programming in lisp 13:16:55 stassats: they're cool. Free software? 13:17:02 https://github.com/stassats/closer-apl 13:17:08 :-) Thanks. 13:17:26 https://github.com/stassats/closer-apl/blob/master/examples.lisp 13:17:41 hmph .. 13:17:58 cute, in a perverse manner 13:18:17 Now, write the function to convert a CL reader macro into the emacs lisp supporting code (font-locking, indenting, etc) :-) 13:18:20 No. The overhead isn't learned until they learn your particular DSL. 13:18:32 now i wish for a macro that would do M-. but insert the tag at point. 13:18:37 replacing whatever it matches. 13:18:39 mm.. 13:18:47 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.236.201] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:18:51 hydan [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:19:45 cl reader macros only allow to read what's after the macro-character, so many cool things aren't easily available 13:23:46 stassats: well, we could write reader macros to provide a framework to do those cool infix things. 13:24:04 2 3 + --> 5 13:24:08 a completely custom reader is possible, just not as cool 13:24:13 -!- gemelen_ is now known as gemelen 13:24:13 felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #lisp 13:24:17 yep. 13:24:27 Embrace: (operator argument) sexps! 13:25:10 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:28:12 huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has joined #lisp 13:28:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:32:42 francisl [~anonymous@bas3-montreal42-1242354060.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:33:07 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 13:35:11 -!- strobegen [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:35:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:35:36 splittist [d4cb4e8a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.203.78.138] has joined #lisp 13:35:42 morning 13:37:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:37:43 Good Morning Lispnam! 13:37:54 strz [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has joined #lisp 13:38:11 -!- strz is now known as strobegen 13:38:14 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas3-montreal42-1242354060.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 13:38:19 *ogamita* with Robbins engraved in the brain cells. :-/ 13:38:55 Robbins? 13:39:13 sorry, it's Robin (Williams). 13:39:37 LiamH [~none@129-2-129-144.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:39:42 are there any notable clim based applications other than climacs? 13:39:46 *splittist* was thinking PSY: Oppa Lispnam style... 13:40:11 -!- fogus|gone [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:40:31 minion: gsharp? 13:40:35 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:40:37 gsharp: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I? 13:40:39 hydan: CLIM based? Some. McCLIM? much less :) 13:41:14 But yes, gsharp would be a good example. 13:41:34 splittist: well, not the same generation. :-) 13:41:45 not notable, but at least there's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dv_mNE4AN8 13:41:45 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 13:41:48 hydan: CLIM was heavily based on the Symbolics LispM stuff, iirc, so a lot of software on it probably counts (if it was not DynamicWindows-only) 13:41:58 hydan: beirc 13:42:13 closure web browser? 13:42:35 FTD 13:45:51 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.80.247] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:53:17 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.187.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:54:15 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:54:55 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:37 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.244.65] has joined #lisp 13:55:41 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:01 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:24 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.244.65] has quit [Client Quit] 13:58:12 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 13:59:20 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:01:49 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.92.43] has joined #lisp 14:05:23 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:06:12 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.13.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:11:06 huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has joined #lisp 14:13:00 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:14:16 newblue [~newblue@116.19.135.118] has joined #lisp 14:14:46 hydan: i use clim quite heavily, but nothing "notable" unless you are a heavy user of a bunch internal software for bioinformatics.. 14:17:50 -!- drmeister 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Emacs)] 17:46:36 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:15 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 17:48:42 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:49:22 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:47 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.83] has joined #lisp 17:50:56 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:52:09 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-65-92.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:53:18 -!- thunder1212 [~thunder@106.215.68.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:55:42 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:56:19 -!- gf3 [~gf3@unaffiliated/gf3] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:57:03 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:57:12 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF96C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:57:21 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:27 pnpuff [~dioxirane@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:58:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:49 damn, i am tired of seeing Xah Lee every time i search something about lisp or emacs. 17:59:42 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:01:12 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:01:15 nan_: maybe would be a good thing tire less yourself, spend your time better and not bother others. 18:02:24 gf3 [~gf3@unaffiliated/gf3] has joined #lisp 18:02:40 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 18:03:04 nan_: ban his site from your google results. 18:03:14 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 18:03:37 pnpuff: uh i don't remember i bothered anyone here, what you mean? 18:04:45 pkhuong: thanks i'll try 18:04:57 nan_: I'm sincerely not interested in your personal opinion abaut anyone (even Xah Lee) 18:05:23 kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-5f733897.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:57 nan_: don't mind pnpuff, he always says something unintelligible 18:06:50 stassats: be kindly 18:07:17 pnpuff: well you are contradicting your own logic 18:08:03 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 18:14:06 nan_: I only do not like to say something bad about someone. 18:14:31 kmels__ [~kmels@95.115.14.15] has joined #lisp 18:15:40 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:44 pnpuff: i didn't say anything bad about anyone. if i did get a cute picture instead evertime i search about lisp/emacs, that would be tiresome too. 18:17:43 yes.. but there are many others problems! :) 18:17:57 ebobby [~fms@189.170.16.14] has joined #lisp 18:18:06 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-5f733897.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:21:13 -!- sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:21:25 Fare [~fare@146.94.106.109.dynamic.sat.abo.nordnet.fr] has joined #lisp 18:23:07 OK, so... should I rather put every form in an eval-when or require users to load the lisp file before to compile (which can be enforced by the .asd file, but not for people who don't use the .asd file). 18:23:21 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:24:09 The people who don't use the .asd file deserve their punishment 18:25:04 My favorite structure is to put all the compile-time code in its own source directory, and then have the main source directory depend on that 18:25:24 _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 18:25:27 drewc [~drewc@50.7.166.100] has joined #lisp 18:25:36 -!- pnpuff [~dioxirane@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:28:56 Is there a standard library function for parsing roman numerals? 18:29:02 no 18:29:05 heh 18:29:18 only for printing 18:29:21 well there's one for printing it, so I had to ask 18:30:15 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:30:21 svetlyak40wt_ [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 18:30:54 dlowe: these people are essentially Zach and quicklisp. 18:31:29 i do load things without .asd as well 18:31:32 and through him all quicklisp users 18:31:32 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 18:31:42 and the source file asdf.lisp 18:31:43 Fare: I thought quicklisp used asdf implicitly 18:31:53 except for asdf itself 18:32:16 OK, so sprinkle asdf.lisp with eval-when fairy dust. 18:32:37 Group as large possible chunks in a single eval-when, or have one eval-when per form? 18:32:47 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:33:55 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1223-48.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:19 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #lisp 18:34:28 bitonic [~user@dyn1223-48.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:36:20 sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:36:36 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:37:34 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.80.247] has left #lisp 18:41:19 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:41:22 Fare: I like the Grouping idea, but if the 'as large as possible' is the whole thing with one eval-when, it makes sense 18:42:12 -!- juvi [~jukka@a88-114-62-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: juvi] 18:45:49 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 18:46:59 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:47:06 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1223-48.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:47:37 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:30 dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has joined #lisp 18:51:33 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:52:00 -!- samebchase [~samuel@codesurfers.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:52:03 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 18:52:44 drewc, well, now that asdf is cut in many packages, that'd be at least one eval-when per package 18:54:05 the advantage of an eval-when per form is that it keeps a human reader aware of the eval time 18:54:28 whereas if you appear in the middle of a large eval-when, it's not always obvious 18:54:33 ... 18:54:44 I have to write an emacs lisp-mode extension now 18:55:28 -!- dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:56:24 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF96C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:00:59 -!- mon_key` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:14 mon_key` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 19:02:03 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:12 Hm. What if ASDF3 came with ASDF1, and uses ASDF1 for itself? 19:07:19 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 19:08:01 tcr1: that's a joke, isn't it? 19:08:11 No why? 19:10:18 gigamonkey [~textual@199.188.194.204] has joined #lisp 19:10:20 -!- gigamonkey [~textual@199.188.194.204] has quit [Client Quit] 19:10:45 gigamonkey [~textual@199.188.194.204] has joined #lisp 19:10:59 -!- gigamonkey [~textual@199.188.194.204] has quit [Client Quit] 19:11:57 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:13 because it's semi-funny, but doesn't make sense technically 19:12:17 why not mk-defsystem? 19:13:50 androcles [~Jeff@sporkula.ss.uci.edu] has joined #lisp 19:14:19 yeah, the disadvantage of grouping is most implementations can only remember the toplevel form of a definition 19:14:45 so when you'd M-. a asdf function, you'd only find the form for all its package. 19:15:16 that will just put more pressure on implementations to fix it 19:15:21 not grouping would mean plenty of extra eval-when text and/or having defun* defmacro* etc., of which I already have some. 19:15:29 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:33 so, i'd say go for it, if only just for that! 19:15:42 ok, so grouping. 19:16:50 since I do more than eval-when, I might as well have a with-hot-upgradability or some such form. 19:18:01 or I could try to generalize use of my when-upgrading... hmmm... 19:18:13 jlongster [~user@209.49.120.130] has joined #lisp 19:19:07 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:19:23 Hasn't asdf.lisp grown so large and complicated that splitting it into multiple files has become more than over due? 19:19:32 it is already! 19:20:41 tcr1: you've missed a few episodes, I see :) 19:21:13 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF96C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:21:55 tcr1: asdf can bootstrap itself when asdf1 couldn't. That was the whole point of asdf2, so there isn't anything asdf1 can do that asdf2 or 3 can't do better and more portably. Also asdf1 wouldn't be able to redirect output properly. 19:22:29 tcr1: asdf 3 (in its 2.27 and now 2.28 pre-releases) has been split into plenty of files that are concatenated together before delivery. 19:22:45 using a derivative of asdf-ecl to bundle files together 19:23:00 in correct dependency order, automatically. 19:23:23 Fare: have you seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/asdf/+bug/1116408 ? 19:23:44 stassats, yes, I have an uncommitted fix. 19:24:00 just #+sb-eval 'ing the relevant condition type. 19:24:18 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:24:18 can you test that that works? (it's in asdf/lisp-build.lisp) 19:24:41 #+sb-eval will work 19:24:51 (and thanks again for being such a great tester) 19:24:58 jasom: have a look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/135235 19:25:29 pjb: meh, I only need to handle up to 4999 so I just made a lookuptable with format ~@R 19:25:52 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:26:05 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-27.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:07 jasom: the main problem being that there are a lot of variants, between early romans and late middle age. 19:26:23 roman fractions are fun 19:26:25 jasom: yes, that's a way to do it. 19:26:26 pjb: I need modern subtractive notation only 19:26:59 I've nver seen those Unicode characters before... 19:27:02 Now you may have fun comparing ~@R output from different implementations :-) 19:27:12 Fare: concatenating it together isn't helping much to reduce the complexity. The point of splitting into files is dependency management and to reduce the need for eval-when 19:27:16 pjb: really? 19:27:43 Perhaps currently they match, but I remember some differences some years ago. 19:28:20 ~@R is supposed to be upcased subtractive and ~@:R is upcased additive, right? 19:28:28 AeroNotix [~xeno@abou5.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:28:41 I guess the spec doesn't say if 3 should be III or IIV 19:29:24 arrk13 [~arrakis24@dslb-188-109-195-045.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:56 jasom: yep. 19:30:28 hello, if I have code that is supposed to run on both 32 and x64 systems, how could i possible let the program find out whether it is running on 32 or the 64 system? 19:30:59 arrk13: a conforming lisp program is totally oblivious of the word size of the underlying system. 19:31:01 arrk13: why does your code care? 19:31:31 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:39 arrk13: the only difference it may take is in most-positive-fixnum and most-negative-fixnum; if you don't use them, no problem. 19:31:48 pjb: because (mod (expt 2 64)) arithmetic is often fast on 64 bit systems 19:31:48 arrk13: you can check things like the biggest positive fixnum and the likes, if that's the reason for the difference. i'm not sure what other reasons there are 19:32:13 Some implementation may put keywords on *features*. 19:32:14 64 bit OS? 64-bit CPU? 19:32:23 64 bit data bus width??? 19:32:50 I know of no processor with a 64-bit data bus width. Perhaps Watson runs on such a computer. 19:32:51 pjb, I have to use cffi, and cffi has to somehow decide whether it is on a 32 or x64 system. it is not for lisp only, i want to interact with an underlying clibrary. 19:32:54 pjb: I did it with my PRNG where you generate the most bits-per-second if you use the native word-size 19:33:18 arrk13: this is unrelated to the implementation: you could dynamically link a 32-bit library as well as a 64-bit library. 19:33:26 arrk13: some linux systems have both installed! 19:34:04 pjb: I think you are wrong, I don't think you can dlopen a 32-bit library from a 64-bit application 19:34:22 at least not on x86 19:34:55 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 19:35:05 Well, if MacOSX with a 32-bit kernel can run 64-bit executables as well as 32-bit executables 19:35:36 pjb: linux can run both too, but a 64-bit executable can't dlopen a 32-bit shared object 19:36:16 arrk13: it's implementation specific. CFFI or trivial-features might have something, though. 19:36:31 there's a reason people used 32-bit firefox on 64-bit kernels (it was for flash which had no 64-bit version) 19:36:54 arrk13: if what you really care about is sizeof(long) you can just add a global that is set to that in your C library 19:39:12 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF96C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:39:21 jasom: it's hard to load the correct library based on that fact 19:39:22 i thought that maybe that function is already available in some library. 19:39:44 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:40:30 jasom: you're right: /lib32/libm.so.6: wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS32 ; when compiling the dlopen call with -m64 19:41:18 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:41:20 stassats: can't you give cffi a list of libraries, and it will failover automatically? 19:41:25 *jasom* hasn't done cffi in a while 19:41:35 arrk13: the safest way is to write a little C library with functions such as: int long_size(){ return sizeof(long); }  19:42:25 jasom: yes, cffi takes a list of libraries, so you can do that. 19:42:50 what a stream of bizarre suggestions, what happened to #+x86-64? 19:43:07 as pkhuong said, trivial-features will provide consistent features on different implementations 19:43:15 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:34 stassats: it's #+word-size=64 on clisp 19:43:36 Theorically, it should be possible to open a shared library with a different word size. As long as you don't try to link edit with the current code. Then with CFFI you can define the 32-bit API. But it would make the resolution of the dependencies of the libraries harder. 19:43:38 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.215.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:47:56 -!- elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has left #lisp 19:48:54 bitonic [~user@5e0cec8f.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:57 tcr1, concatenating to a single file is necessary for bootstrap 19:50:31 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 19:50:51 -!- ISF is now known as sergiosdj 19:50:54 dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has joined #lisp 19:51:05 -!- sergiosdj is now known as ISF 19:51:21 k0001 [~k0001@200.117.235.251] has joined #lisp 19:51:50 -!- jlongster [~user@209.49.120.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:55:26 -!- dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:55:32 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-65-92.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:00 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:57:34 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:09 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF96C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:01:05 ikki [~ikki@187.240.222.79] has joined #lisp 20:01:32 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.176.104] has joined #lisp 20:02:09 svs_ [~svs@209.140.97.25] has joined #lisp 20:02:35 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 20:03:10 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-128-194.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:04:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-128.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:06:44 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:07:05 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:08:17 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 20:09:20 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-227-58.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:14 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:10:24 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:11:00 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-236-60.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:11:11 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:11:38 benzrf [b8999a8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.153.154.141] has joined #lisp 20:11:42 hello! 20:12:03 I've read stuff about lisp in various places and stuff. but I haven't actually done anything really in-depth in it 20:12:20 minion: please tell benzrf about PCL 20:12:21 benzrf: have a look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 20:12:27 o: 20:12:32 thanks! 20:12:36 actually though 20:12:42 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:52 I was going to say, from what I've read, about 80% of lisp's awesome features are covered by standard class-based OOP 20:12:58 antgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-126-155.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 20:13:13 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 20:13:17 not even close 20:13:20 ok 20:13:22 I figured 20:13:26 I guess I just haven't read enough 20:13:45 I started on lisp, but I never really got around to getting past the first 30 pages 20:13:45 :s 20:13:59 it's not really good as a first book 20:14:19 okay, I'll keep that in mind 20:14:22 juvi [~jukka@a88-114-62-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 20:14:26 or a second 20:14:30 and I'll take a look at pcl 20:14:30 :) 20:14:43 -!- svetlyak40wt_ [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:44 btw, my main experience in programming is java tbh 20:14:45 :\ 20:15:00 would you recommend doing something like python, or should I jump right into lisp? 20:15:05 does it matter at all? 20:15:50 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:58 Depends, what is your motivation for wanting to learn Lisp? 20:16:02 if you want to learn lisp, you need to learn lisp 20:16:17 python wouldn't help you in any way 20:16:24 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:16:25 so, you are a starter off-er :) It does not matter at all since you are talking about two different languages that have little in common. What do you want to learn? 20:16:57 well 20:17:00 I mean more like 20:17:02 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:07 in terms of learning about programming and computers in general 20:17:13 -!- ebobby [~fms@189.170.16.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:17:24 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF96C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:17:26 what is a better learning order, I mean? not just with lisp as a goal. 20:18:04 If you want to learn about computer science in general from a Lispy angle, you could check out SICP 20:18:18 benzrf: the only thing that matters is persistence and actually doing stuff instead of reading about it. 20:18:38 okay, I thought so 20:18:40 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:18:47 well, the second part 20:19:03 the whole 'not actually doing stuff' is more an issue of lazIness than lack of understanding of the principle 20:19:05 :l 20:19:19 ugh that was the wrong emoticon 20:19:28 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:38 rndnick4376 [~user@stgt-5f71a68e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:44 no, it's the lack of motivation, not laziness 20:20:05 hm, is having the hash-function in sb-ext:define-hash-table-test be a generic function okay as long as i don't redefine methods in the middle of anything? 20:20:11 stassats: difference between "lack of motivation" and "laziness"? 20:20:31 it depends on your definition of laziness 20:20:34 but that's what I meant to imply 20:20:42 jasom: what they have in common is that they're both off-topic 20:20:51 true that 20:21:00 anyway, I guess I've found out what I needed to... see you! 20:21:00 :) 20:21:02 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 20:21:02 -!- benzrf [b8999a8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.153.154.141] has left #lisp 20:21:25 Bike: I don't think there's anything special about d-h-t-t and method redefinition 20:21:37 ok. 20:23:39 -!- svs_ [~svs@209.140.97.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:24:46 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF96C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:26:26 smazga [~smazga@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:56 jynnantonix [~textual@140.247.0.102] has joined #lisp 20:28:51 -!- Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:29:36 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.117.235.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:30:46 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 20:31:04 k0001 [~k0001@host20.190-224-51.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 20:33:14 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:33:16 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-27.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:33:52 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 20:34:09 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #lisp 20:34:09 on lispbuilder-sdl, how can I set the rotation axis of the surface? 20:34:18 Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 20:34:30 -!- elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has left #lisp 20:34:56 arrdem_ [~arrdem@wireless-128-62-209-182.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 20:34:56 -!- arrdem_ [~arrdem@wireless-128-62-209-182.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 20:35:19 neufeld [~user@69-165-173-139.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:38 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@68.37.70.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:39:49 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF96C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:41:39 segv-_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-150-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:39 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-150-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:40 -!- segv-_ is now known as segv- 20:42:30 -!- kmels__ [~kmels@95.115.14.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:43:00 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:08 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:43:29 ... ok, nobody here 20:43:54 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF96C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:44:26 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:36 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:46 -!- rndnick4376 [~user@stgt-5f71a68e.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 20:47:54 svs_ [~svs@209.140.97.25] has joined #lisp 20:50:17 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:41 -!- Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:50:49 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:51:26 dous [~dous@cm23.sigma71.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 20:51:26 -!- dous [~dous@cm23.sigma71.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Changing host] 20:51:26 dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has joined #lisp 20:51:32 -!- iLogical is now known as koskholackbar 20:52:07 mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.19] has joined #lisp 20:52:07 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.19] has quit [Changing host] 20:52:07 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:56:02 Joreji_ [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:56:15 -!- dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:57:53 -!- koskholackbar is now known as iLogical 20:58:26 seangrov` [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:31 -!- seangrove [~user@71.202.126.17] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:23 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-27.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:58 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-223-84-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 21:02:29 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF96C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:03:24 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:03:41 jlongster [~user@209.49.120.130] has joined #lisp 21:05:29 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:29 jesusito [~user@212.24.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:09:44 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:45 -!- andytoshi [~username@gateway/tor-sasl/andytoshi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:15 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:10:56 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 21:12:22 andytoshi [~username@gateway/tor-sasl/andytoshi] has joined #lisp 21:13:10 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 21:14:08 -!- newblue [~newblue@116.19.135.118] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:14:10 -!- jlongster [~user@209.49.120.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:02 gigamonkey [~textual@199.188.194.204] has joined #lisp 21:18:38 bitonic` [~user@5ad2b911.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:03 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 21:21:02 -!- bitonic [~user@5e0cec8f.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:21:02 -!- agumonkey [~agu@138.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:23:45 jlongster [~user@209.49.120.130] has joined #lisp 21:24:11 francogrex [~user@109.134.195.210] has joined #lisp 21:24:15 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:53 -!- jesusito [~user@212.24.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:05 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:27:17 here I stole the R source code will be translating it to lisp now: http://cl.pcriot.com/htmlized.html 21:27:31 So is renaming my quicklisp directory to ".quicklisp" going to bug anything up, or? 21:27:42 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.176.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:27:49 it will, naturally 21:28:31 youlysses: I don't think it will - I think you'll have to modify your RC files to load the setup file from the new location, and that should be it 21:28:41 also, your emacs if you use slime from QL 21:28:57 quicklisp can be installed to a different location 21:29:52 stassats: Thanks, that's what I assumed. I just previously adjust slime, antifuchs, but thanks also. :-) 21:29:53 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:12 sweet. I think that should be all you need to do (: 21:30:59 *youlysses* can't stand having anything visible besides his "DESKTOP" directory... :-I 21:33:34 is it possible to read a list or vector of bytes as a stream? (it is possible to read a string as string with with-input-from-string ...) 21:33:53 possible withing which restrictions? 21:34:10 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-27.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:34:29 like (with-input-from-stream (list/vector) ... 21:35:08 instead of reading it from a file stream, it would be from a "buffer" stream 21:35:26 except a vector instead of an actual stream, you mean. 21:35:35 yes 21:36:09 "possible" is such a blanket term, so you have to be more specific 21:36:10 well I am not making much sens 21:36:38 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 21:37:53 I am seeing this: readbin(con, type, 1, len) in R con could be a file stream or a buffer vector ... so it gets me confused 21:38:06 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:24 i don't think that 1-to-1 translation would be productive 21:39:03 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:39:25 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:42:02 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-244.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:42:26 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 21:44:37 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@50.116.14.156] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:45:26 Tarential [~Tarential@50.116.14.156] has joined #lisp 21:45:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has left #lisp 21:46:57 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:31 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 21:48:12 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 21:48:54 true 21:49:00 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:22 it can be, I feel 21:51:41 you get it working and then you can bang it into something more coherant 21:51:55 dlowe: what the 1 to 1 ? 21:52:40 well we know that at least for a few things it won't work. I was trying at least to have similar high-level functions/abstractions 21:53:02 dlowe: then the easiest would be to add an R implementation in CL 21:53:21 stassats: there are already 21:53:50 at least R intefaces, but that of course is not the aim 21:53:53 or even ask oneself "why not just use R" 21:54:11 answer is obvious 21:55:24 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:56:00 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:57:48 -!- Straylight [~user@vpn.expressionanalysis.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:59:24 -!- _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 22:00:32 pnpuff [~dioxirane@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 22:01:44 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:58 add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-173-35.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 22:04:33 -!- pnpuff [~dioxirane@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has left #lisp 22:04:33 pnpuff 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