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01:18:49 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:21:49 bitonic [~user@027b7a43.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:36 zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 01:28:06 AntiTyping [~apliszka@74.73.56.156] has joined #lisp 01:29:01 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 01:31:21 doomlord_ [~doomlod@86.171.15.248] has joined #lisp 01:31:54 francisl_ [~anonymous@bas3-montreal42-1242354060.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:35:03 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:39:24 -!- iLogical is now known as politburo 01:41:20 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-237.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:48:09 pierre1 [~pierre1@186.205.212.50] has joined #lisp 01:49:08 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:49:18 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 01:53:35 -!- zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has left #lisp 01:53:53 -!- sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:54:48 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:06 -!- bitonic [~user@027b7a43.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:04:28 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Quit: As a wild ass in the desert go I forth to my work] 02:04:36 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-216-168.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:04:41 Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 02:05:07 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 02:05:25 is there an easy way to expand a list of strings and lists of strings? 02:05:34 -!- emma_ is now known as em 02:05:41 im trying to build a function to do it as I learn more and more, but I was just curious 02:06:01 sarcasmus: what do you mean by "expand"? 02:06:07 expand a list of strings... what do you mean by that? 02:06:15 turn '(4 (5)) into '(4 5) 02:06:23 This is not a list of string. 02:06:26 i know 02:06:28 that's called flatten 02:06:29 its an example 02:06:30 It looks like you want flatten. 02:06:34 ok sure 02:06:41 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.211.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:06:47 is there a flatten function in place in sbcl already? 02:06:57 Nope. 02:07:00 I've been trying to build one recursively with typecase and some other things 02:07:00 kcj_ [~casey@118.148.218.89] has joined #lisp 02:07:04 but it's trivial to make one 02:07:05 -!- mau [~mau@69.85.85.150] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:07:07 ok, thats fine i was just curious 02:07:36 sarcasmus: first write one that works. Then write one that's not awfully inefficient. 02:07:40 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 02:07:57 -!- kcj_ [~casey@118.148.218.89] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08:05 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:13 I'm still a novice, haven't even touched on macros yet 02:08:23 performance isnt really a concern until I know what I'm doing lol 02:08:24 you won't need them for this. 02:08:29 i know 02:08:35 it was just a frame of reference 02:08:45 sarcasmus: macros have nothing to do here. 02:08:58 I can do it, I was just curious if something similar shipped with cl 02:09:06 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:09:17 kcj_ [~casey@118.148.218.89] has joined #lisp 02:09:17 sarcasmus: you are really strange: you take examples of things you don't want, you put yourself in frames of references that has nothing to do with your problem 02:09:24 I wonder how you get anything done! 02:09:46 ./ignore pjb 02:09:48 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:48 sarcasmus: if it was shipped with cl teachers would have trouble assigning it as a homework problem. 02:10:03 sarcasmus: just saying, try to think a little straighter! 02:10:03 sarcasmus there's flatten in alexandria 02:10:08 haha yeah I guess thats right 02:10:21 thats cool kennyd 02:10:36 cfy` [~ilisp@122.231.24.9] has joined #lisp 02:10:56 Of course, using google is also a "solution". That's why we gave you the 'right' word "flatten" at the beginning. 02:12:57 obsoleter [~androirc@c-68-57-55-153.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:20 mau [~mau@2606:df00:3:3:582d:bd9e:715e:fbd6] has joined #lisp 02:13:48 *Hermit* just rolled his own in the irc input-line 02:13:56 sarcasmus: want it? 02:14:05 (defun flatten (sexp) (let ((result)) (subst-if nil (lambda (item) (when (and item (atom item)) (push item result)) nil) sexp) (nreverse result))) 02:14:23 Now of course, you have to refine the specifications of flatten 02:14:24 pjb: oh no, you didn't 02:14:29 here's mine 02:14:31 (defun flatten (list) (if (and list (atom list)) (list list) (mapcan #'flatten list))) 02:15:14 And nothing says that subst-if must process the CARs before the CDRs. 02:15:54 sarcasmus: there are hundred of different flatten functions. 02:16:25 mine there skips nil now that I check 02:16:26 dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has joined #lisp 02:16:48 i cant see what you said pjb because my ignore plugin changes your font color to the color of my background, but I can see that you mentioned it 02:16:54 hermit, no 02:17:03 im going to make my own 02:17:07 (defun flatten (list) (if (atom list) (list list) (mapcan #'flatten list))) 02:17:09 -!- kcj_ [~casey@118.148.218.89] has quit [Quit: kcj_] 02:17:14 there, this one works right 02:17:14 its a necessary thing to learn 02:17:35 sarcasmus: you said no too late, we already posted 3 flatten functions 02:17:36 im purposefully overlooking these solutions 02:17:39 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 02:17:47 -!- shifty` [~user@114.198.26.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:18:14 sarcasmus: try to write one without recursion, and another with recursion. 02:19:00 pls quit highlighting me 02:19:23 sarcasmus: there's a most efficient way, using a collector, you figure it out on your own. You'll learn a lot in the way ;-) 02:19:43 sorry... 02:19:59 thats the idea hermit, Im not afraid of solving problems on my own, all i came to find out was just if there was one to learn from 02:20:23 oh no, pjb highlighting me is irritating because its a blank line where his chat would be 02:20:36 -!- myx [~myx@188.233.244.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:20:46 sarcasmus: given that you should write at least ten different flatten, this should give you a lot to learn. 02:20:58 there he goes again 02:21:27 sarcasmus: it's your IRC client, I'm just using the IRC protocol, I cannot do anything but sending a string. 02:21:52 hmm 02:21:54 pjb i cannot read any of your chat because i've ignored you, pls quit using my nickname in chat 02:22:08 *Hermit* wonders why the f* isn't his highlighting working 02:22:09 sarcasmus: That's your problem! :-) 02:22:19 hermit, what client? 02:22:24 weechat 02:22:31 one se 02:22:33 sec 02:22:45 actually, are you using an external plugin to do it? 02:23:08 since I updated the beep.pl it stopped working. Must be because I used a custom edited version(?) 02:23:10 yeah 02:23:14 sarcasmus: And as a novice, you should be wary of ignoring people 02:23:35 -!- obsoleter [~androirc@c-68-57-55-153.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:39 i think weechat has something built in for it, lemme see 02:23:53 pers [~user@51.sub-174-255-177.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 02:24:33 sarcasmus: mind if I forward what pjb just said? (I think it's a good advice): as a novice, you should be wary of ignoring people 02:24:39 ok, something about hotlist 02:24:53 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d029b3a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:25:06 idk weechat very well, but try googling "hotlist weechat" there's something about notifications and channel activity 02:25:50 -!- pers [~user@51.sub-174-255-177.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 02:25:55 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.11.80] has joined #lisp 02:26:16 also the notify config has something about different levels of importance 02:26:46 -!- arrdem|work is now known as arrdem 02:26:49 pjb can get wrecked, there's enough free info on the web to learn anything with enough patience. if I had to learn lisp a different way than how I am now, I could 02:27:01 therefore, I'm not going to deal with childish, obnoxious chatters 02:28:03 sarcasmus: if you're not reading "A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" you should strongly consider doing so, on that note. 02:29:40 im reading ansi common lisp, "beating the averages" inspired me beyond words, so I got the book and am working through it. I like Successful Lisp too 02:30:21 SICP was good for a while, but I'm not lispy enough to deal with that level of thinking, I'm gonna go back through SICP after I have a better mindset 02:33:09 MrMc [~quassel@91-64-125-247-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 02:33:17 sarcasmus: gentle intro is basically about things like flatten. 02:34:37 thats pretty enticing 02:35:46 you should question the usefulness of writing routines for slicing and dicing heterogeneous lists 02:38:22 Quadrescence: just a gentle poke in case you wanted to get back to me but forgot (I do that all the time) 02:38:46 mathrick, hello 02:39:50 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:39:52 does something have to be useful to be interesting or worth learning? 02:39:58 b/c I don't think it does 02:40:07 Quadrescence: you said "brb", so I was basically checking what the followup would be. If there's none, that's also fine I guess 02:40:19 sarcasmus, no it doesn't need to be useful to be worth learning 02:40:21 no news in John and IRC? 02:40:52 sarcasmus: there's a difference between "not necessarily useful" and "useless" 02:40:52 ok then 02:41:16 sarcasmus, but in learning how to do those operations, don't delude yourself in thinking it is good style or proper to use heterogeneous lists for your data structures 02:41:25 flattening lists does come up occasionally, but in general it might be good to question WHY you're doing that and if it's even a sensible thing to do 02:41:39 hence, it's not useless and your contributions are irrelevant 02:41:45 welcome to the ignore list 02:41:51 ... 02:42:06 quad, it's a learning exercise 02:42:21 exercise in learning what? 02:42:24 nobody uses fizzbuzz to get work done, but everyone learns it because it's neat 02:42:37 i dont understand your question 02:43:46 ok 02:44:24 mathrick, what i'll do is talk to him and maybe i'll take over maintenance and perhaps start documenting it. the problem is that i know very little about it, so i don't know why he wants to hand the gauntlet to me 02:46:02 Quadrescence: yeah, I'd have expected it to be handed to someone with actual experience and interest in the project, and not just to first person to ask on behalf of random IRC people. Not that I doubt your skills, but you didn't really indicate any desire to 02:46:23 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 02:47:07 mathrick, well he probably was okay with me because he had some chats and discussions in person in the past. but it's true, i don't know much about the project and the problem domain in general 02:48:11 -!- cfy` [~ilisp@122.231.24.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:48:30 cfy`` [~ilisp@122.231.24.9] has joined #lisp 02:49:35 -!- cfy`` is now known as cfy|home 02:50:35 mathrick, what are you using it for? 02:52:04 Quadrescence: nothing yet, but wanted to take a look perhaps at weblocks integration work that was mentioned some years ago, and then for a website that has a chance of getting serious, so I'd like to have a sensible scaling path 02:52:46 i see 02:54:41 since the website would be for-money, I don't want to lock myself into working with crappy code on the off chance it should catch on 02:55:15 yes 02:59:22 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 03:00:12 obsoleter [~androirc@68.57.55.153] has joined #lisp 03:04:11 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:04:33 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.221.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:05:17 k-stz [~user@2a02:8070:22c1:f001:e269:95ff:fe38:b215] has joined #lisp 03:07:38 Quadrescence: did he say anything about being available for questioning regarding usage and development? Future maintainership and documentation is nice, but right now we probably know approximately the same amount about it, and I could just as well do the documentation as I go, at least partially 03:08:17 mathrick, the only thing i know is that i can go to his desk and say "let's grab lunch with our laptops and do lisp" 03:08:44 right 03:08:53 -!- obsoleter [~androirc@68.57.55.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:08:56 I also know it's fast! 03:14:44 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:15:53 arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 03:16:59 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:22 ebobby [~fms@189.170.16.14] has joined #lisp 03:20:01 ikki [~ikki@187.208.162.29] has joined #lisp 03:22:11 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:24:22 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:29:18 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 03:41:42 antgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-126-155.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 03:45:45 what's a library for inter-thread message passing in CL that doesn't involve busy-waiting for messages? 03:46:05 -!- pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 03:47:00 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:47:59 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:24 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:50:52 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:51:10 -!- ebobby [~fms@189.170.16.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:51:56 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 03:53:14 pers [~user@75.sub-174-255-176.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 03:53:31 -!- pers [~user@75.sub-174-255-176.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 03:59:29 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-126-155.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:59:30 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.162.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:02:04 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 04:04:43 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:08:04 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:55 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:34 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@64.30.112.86] has joined #lisp 04:14:03 Fare: Sent a message to asdf-dev, but make test with cmucl fails on loading FARE-ALL. Can I ignore that? 04:14:33 yes 04:14:56 oops. I should comment out the fare-all by default 04:14:59 thanks 04:17:18 export ASDF_TEST_SYSTEMS="some list of systems you care to test the loading of" 04:17:42 or make test s="that same list" 04:17:47 thanks for the bug report. 04:18:47 -!- dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:23:27 dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has joined #lisp 04:27:28 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.253.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:42 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.253.7] has joined #lisp 04:28:53 antgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-126-155.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 04:30:35 Fare: Ok. The tests pass, so it will be added to the next snapshot, out tomorrow. You just made it in time. :-) 04:31:02 Fare: I do want to get back to you on the deferred thing, but not right now. 04:31:21 -!- MrMc [~quassel@91-64-125-247-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:35:20 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 04:35:22 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas3-montreal42-1242354060.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 04:35:22 -!- francisl_ is now known as francisl 04:35:41 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:45 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:39:45 just to be sure -- that's 2.28 we're talking about? 04:39:50 ok 04:40:11 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:40:20 hopefully, for 2.29 we'll have cmucl (and scl?), allegro, clisp and ecl supported 04:40:42 (well, for ECL it's trivial: it doesn't defer any warnings) 04:40:56 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:41:36 Kalman Reti yesterday told me that the Symbolics SCT had solved these deep bugs from defsystem long ago 04:41:39 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:26 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:11 when the free software lisp only solved it last month. 04:44:12 sigh. 04:44:20 does anyone still use mk-defsystem? 04:47:27 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:19 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.211.97] has joined #lisp 04:54:49 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.183.184] has joined #lisp 04:57:07 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:57:28 ebobby [~fms@189.170.16.14] has joined #lisp 04:59:14 -!- My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:00:25 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas3-montreal42-1242354060.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 05:01:29 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 05:02:16 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.11.80] has quit [Quit: ...] 05:02:51 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 05:02:51 -!- ebobby [~fms@189.170.16.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:08:49 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 05:09:13 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has left #lisp 05:11:16 -!- k-stz [~user@2a02:8070:22c1:f001:e269:95ff:fe38:b215] has left #lisp 05:12:07 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.211.205.227] has joined #lisp 05:12:50 jglh [45c994ec@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.201.148.236] has joined #lisp 05:17:00 -!- segmond [~segmond@adsl-99-110-97-170.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:19:06 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:21:24 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:29:26 hey guys, i'm a lisp rookie (went with clisp) and i'm looking for a good web framework. any recommendations? 05:29:42 -!- Guest48397 [~tman@37-251-16-95.FTTH.ispfabriek.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:30:05 antiweb comes to mind 05:30:43 rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 05:31:45 bubo_ [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 05:35:33 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:36:11 ok thanks, i'll check it out 05:37:09 so many web frameworks 05:37:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.20.48] has joined #lisp 05:37:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.20.48] has quit [Changing host] 05:37:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:38:57 Fare: which is your favorite? 05:39:00 Ue [~Ue@gateway/tor-sasl/ue] has joined #lisp 05:39:11 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.253.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:39:22 I don't like the web :-( 05:39:30 Dunno. 05:39:51 Hop looks great frankly -- but it's Bigloo Scheme, not CL. 05:40:08 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 05:40:25 For the web, I'd use some Scheme that has good support for continuations 05:40:44 it just beats doing continuations manually in CL, with or without framework. 05:41:04 (or having a bad CPS lisp-in-lisp implementation) 05:41:12 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:41:23 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:41:52 -!- Ue [~Ue@gateway/tor-sasl/ue] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:48 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 05:42:59 I'm not sure that continuations are actually a good idea for web apps. 05:43:04 -!- Jubb [~ghost@108.28.62.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:43:28 aren't they more a relic of the pre-javascript age? 05:43:34 how are they not? they allow you to write in direct style what others do painfully with callbacks 05:44:02 every interesting JS framework itself has plenty of callbacks everywhere 05:44:02 studybot_ [~studybot_@gateway/tor-sasl/studybot/x-68286794] has joined #lisp 05:44:27 so the answer is: no, it's not just a pre-JS idea 05:44:40 But it does seem to be a bad one. :) 05:44:49 It's more of a pre-web-app idea. 05:45:17 Where web pages are being used for processes, rather than just as resources. 05:45:18 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 05:46:06 Having callbacks is pretty much irrelevant -- you have those on the desktop and for much the same reason. 05:46:15 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:46:27 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 05:48:40 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:48:47 -!- dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:28 Fare: Maxima still use mk-defsystem. 05:49:53 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:54:38 how compatible are different implementations of CL? ie, if i'm using clisp, am i going to run into problems if i try to use a framework that was built around sbcl for example? 05:58:47 jglh: usually clisp and sbcl are well supported by most (if not all) serious packages 06:03:13 -!- Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:03:29 mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 06:03:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 06:03:29 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:03:42 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:04:25 Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 06:05:47 dous [~dous@cm222.sigma69.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 06:05:47 -!- dous [~dous@cm222.sigma69.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Changing host] 06:05:47 dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has joined #lisp 06:07:37 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 06:08:35 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 06:08:49 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:10:19 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.253.7] has joined #lisp 06:10:45 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:11:55 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:12:18 cfy|home` [~ilisp@122.231.24.9] has joined #lisp 06:13:31 -!- cfy|home [~ilisp@122.231.24.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:13:37 -!- cfy|home` is now known as cfy|home 06:13:44 -!- cfy|home [~ilisp@122.231.24.9] has quit [Client Quit] 06:14:27 cfy|home [~ilisp@122.231.24.9] has joined #lisp 06:18:44 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.253.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:32:40 -!- pierre1 [~pierre1@186.205.212.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:33:06 -!- dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:35:30 dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has joined #lisp 06:38:53 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 06:42:18 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:43:52 -!- studybot_ [~studybot_@gateway/tor-sasl/studybot/x-68286794] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:45:01 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:47:40 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 06:49:28 astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-235-122.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:50:51 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:55:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:56:59 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:58:38 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-27.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:16 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.74.181] has joined #lisp 07:04:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.74.181] has quit [Changing host] 07:04:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:07:44 Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:08:29 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:09:45 -!- dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:11:32 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:12:51 dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has joined #lisp 07:13:27 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:04 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@71.185.82.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28:11 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:33:55 francogrex [~user@109.134.195.210] has joined #lisp 07:33:56 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-27.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:34:49 who can help me with uffi. I have the section highlighted in yellow here: http://cl.pcriot.com/code.php it is a part I am trying to add to enable clsql to handle the LONG datatype from Oracle. 07:36:33 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-106-71.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:36:46 but so far doesn't work it return "" nothing. unless I add something like ...(let ((colsize-including-null (+ 1000 (uffi:deref-pointer colsize :unsigned-long))))... so I extend it by about a 1000, but that 1000 is arbitrary and does not take into account the actual size of the field 07:38:55 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.155.194] has joined #lisp 07:43:33 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.10.216.21] has joined #lisp 07:49:30 AndroUser2 [~androirc@68.57.55.153] has joined #lisp 07:52:32 -!- AndroUser2 [~androirc@68.57.55.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:53:49 AndroUser2 [~androirc@68.57.55.153] has joined #lisp 07:54:09 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:57:43 -!- AndroUser2 [~androirc@68.57.55.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:59:22 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 08:06:29 anyone? 08:06:45 awake? 08:06:48 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:07:14 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-024-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:53 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:08:31 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 08:11:54 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.220] has joined #lisp 08:12:57 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:13:50 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-156-33.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:16:59 ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.217] has joined #lisp 08:19:29 ebobby [~fms@189.170.16.14] has joined #lisp 08:23:13 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.10.216.21] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 08:24:12 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 08:24:18 -!- ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.217] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:25:52 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: bleeding] 08:28:02 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:28:21 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:05 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:30:26 -!- brendyn [brendyn@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:30:37 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:30:58 -!- ebobby [~fms@189.170.16.14] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:31:47 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: warning] 08:32:34 brendyn [~brendyn@li568-31.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 08:33:01 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:33:02 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.195.210] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:34:18 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:37:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:44:19 bitonic [~user@027b5801.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 08:45:25 agumonkey [~agu@177.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:46:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:48:01 zorkmoid_ [1fd100fa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.209.0.250] has joined #lisp 08:49:32 good morning lispers! 08:51:10 zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-167-168.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 08:51:40 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.10.216.21] has joined #lisp 08:51:55 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-106-71.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:48 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54:12 -!- jglh [45c994ec@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.201.148.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:01:08 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.73.108.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:07:04 -!- ans [~luka@91.185.202.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:07:33 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:08:24 -!- Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:09:26 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 09:12:13 -!- bubo_ [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:14:16 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:15:27 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 09:15:49 akovalenko [~user@95.73.108.51] has joined #lisp 09:19:02 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 09:21:24 ans [~luka@91.185.202.58] has joined #lisp 09:24:10 -!- My_Hearing is now known as Mon_Ouie 09:26:15 rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 09:34:07 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:37 ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has joined #lisp 09:35:37 -!- ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has quit [Changing host] 09:35:37 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 09:37:00 hm. LoL says that (make-array 3) returns #(nil nil nil). SBCL returns #(0 0 0) 09:37:24 what's the correct result, if any? 09:37:25 zvrba: it returns whatever it wants if you don't give :initial-element 09:37:26 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 09:38:18 Both are correct. 09:38:29 ok 09:42:39 MrMc [~quassel@91-64-125-247-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:58 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0816.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:15 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:46:37 what a bug i just fixed! now slime fuzzy can complete NIL 09:47:53 llloott [~llloott@69-12-184-225.sca.dsl.qnet.com] has joined #lisp 09:48:39 -!- llloott [~llloott@69-12-184-225.sca.dsl.qnet.com] has quit [Client Quit] 09:52:13 w00t, SBCL is amazingly fast. i just typed an example from the book (doing something 100 times on a graph with 1000 nodes and 1000 edges).. the book uses CLISP and the example timing there was 57s. with SBCL it's 1.4s. 09:52:37 clisp is just slow 09:52:50 and they may have forgot to compile in clisp 09:56:43 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:56:59 they could also run it on ancient machine... 09:58:37 That does sound impressively slow for such a small graph. :) 09:58:56 Why not try it in clisp to compare on the same machine? :) 10:00:23 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:00:33 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has joined #lisp 10:00:43 Ue [~Ue@gateway/tor-sasl/ue] has joined #lisp 10:01:55 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-106-71.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:03:03 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 10:03:43 hmm, let me try. 10:04:17 bah, haven't installed clisp. and lispcabinet doesn't have an option to modify existing installation. 10:04:49 -!- Ue [~Ue@gateway/tor-sasl/ue] has left #lisp 10:04:53 though the book makes kinda weird choice. it explains arrays and hash tables, and then it uses a hash table (instead of an array) to store a graph whose nodes are labelled by integers. 10:05:05 (consecutive integers) 10:05:09 oh well :) 10:06:05 with hashes, the timing is 0.064s. (clisp timing quoted by the book is 1.22s) 10:06:59 -!- theos is now known as Guest63867 10:07:27 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:08:02 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:08:21 -!- Guest63867 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:08:49 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08:51 It's a reasonable choice if they are expected to be large and sparse. 10:11:22 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:11:36 -!- tentative8e8op [~tb@cpe-67-49-139-65.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 10:12:52 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 10:13:50 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0816.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:13:53 segv- [~mb@dslb-094-223-001-189.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:36 how so? i was thinking about an array containing a list of neighbors for each node. 10:17:31 burrows [~user@cpe-75-187-53-43.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:17:55 Is usocket my only option for a socket abstraction on Windows? 10:18:09 Seems they don't support sending and receiving on TCP sockets, or something of that nature. 10:18:55 usocket:socket-send and usocket:socket-receive? 10:19:10 Documentation says I have to use a datagram socket 10:19:12 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 10:19:47 wrt to those functions. 10:20:56 francogrex [~user@109.134.195.210] has joined #lisp 10:21:09 then write-byte read-byte 10:22:24 morphling [~stefan@77.0.51.34] has joined #lisp 10:23:18 Where do you see that at? 10:23:35 I see references to it in forum posts but not in their docs. 10:23:41 i'm not looking anywhere 10:23:44 Gotcha. 10:24:02 it has a stream, you can write to it, and read from it 10:24:12 Okay. 10:24:32 Oh yeah that makes sense. 10:24:46 Thanks. 10:25:13 well, it's not limited to read-byte 10:25:26 all the stream functions, depending on the element-type 10:25:45 Yeah I hadn't put 2 and 2 together that it was just a CL stream. 10:30:02 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:20 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:47 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:30:54 someone saw my uffi/clsql question? 10:32:59 dous_ [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has joined #lisp 10:35:08 -!- dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:35:46 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.10.216.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:38:17 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:38:47 Sania [~opera@115.186.182.5] has joined #lisp 10:41:36 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 10:43:11 wb 10:44:54 -!- Sania [~opera@115.186.182.5] has left #lisp 10:47:34 WB 10:53:27 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the 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[~leoc.git@p57B9B755.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:24 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-244-172.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:50 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:10:09 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.183.184] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:15:07 -!- MrMc [~quassel@91-64-125-247-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:16:20 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:17:32 quick question ... (cl-ppcre:scan-to-strings "^\/test\/(.+)$" "/test/aaaa") returns 2 things, whole string and array of matches 15:17:41 how do i access that array of matches? 15:17:55 clhs m-v-b 15:17:56 multiple-value-bind: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_multip.htm 15:17:57 clhs n-v 15:17:58 nth-value: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_nth_va.htm 15:18:15 see also ppcre:register-group-bind 15:18:29 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 15:19:06 zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 15:20:16 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 15:21:08 (cl-ppcre:register-groups-bind (first) ("^\/test\/(.+)$" "/test/aaaa") (list first)) 15:21:12 that does it 15:21:14 :) 15:22:28 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 15:23:17 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.199.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:23:56 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.74.181] has joined #lisp 15:24:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.74.181] has quit [Changing host] 15:24:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:25:03 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.206.170] has joined #lisp 15:26:08 drmeister [~drmeister@71.185.82.146] has joined #lisp 15:27:01 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:27:32 -!- hydan [~udzinari@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:29:11 I would lie to generate a combination of two lists. I.e from '(a b) '(1 2) to '((a 1) (a 2) (b 1) (b 2)) 15:29:20 I figure there is a standard common lisp procedure for this 15:29:27 (mapcar #'list '(a b) '(1 2)) 15:29:38 oh, that's not it 15:30:35 (mapcan (lambda (x) (mapcar (lambda (y) (list y x)) '(a b))) '(1 2)) 15:31:07 (mapcan (lambda (x) (mapcar (lambda (y) (list x y)) '(1 2))) '(a b)) to be exact 15:34:16 hydan [~udzinari@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 15:34:35 -!- morphling [~stefan@77.0.51.34] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:35:42 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 15:36:07 bubo [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 15:36:31 -!- bubo is now known as Guest33371 15:36:36 -!- Guest33371 [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Client Quit] 15:37:19 thanks 15:37:21 thats great 15:37:32 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:37:42 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:38:09 -!- 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[~przlrkt@p54BF8C4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:57:15 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 16:58:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:59:57 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:04:07 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:04:59 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:39 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:10:48 heh nice, "prettier compiler notes" 17:10:54 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 17:11:20 dous_ [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has joined #lisp 17:11:21 Fare [~fare@173.9.65.97] has joined #lisp 17:11:37 -!- alkul [~alk@83.61.33.90] has quit [Quit: alkul] 17:11:47 hi 17:12:00 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:12:06 Good afternoon all hope you're having a pleasant day 17:12:35 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:12:38 -!- dous_ [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:14:18 -!- dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:18:03 -!- Fare [~fare@173.9.65.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:18:27 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:05 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:41 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:22:17 ozzen [~ozzen@108.222.222.199] has joined #lisp 17:24:22 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-152-179.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:27:51 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:28:26 bitonic` [~user@b0fe5dc7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 17:29:09 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:07 -!- bitonic [~user@027b5801.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:31:10 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:31:23 -!- worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:32:52 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:32:53 morphling [~stefan@77.0.51.34] has joined #lisp 17:33:22 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:37:25 what is the right way to mark macro or function depreciated? 17:37:28 just (warn) ? 17:38:21 warn for macros, and a compiler-macro with warn for functions 17:38:29 francisl [~anonymous@bas3-montreal42-1242354060.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:38:41 cool thanks 17:39:03 and a style-warning, not a full warning 17:39:08 at least at first 17:43:37 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:44:22 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:37 -!- sabra [~sabra@67.174.222.215] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:49:19 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:51:05 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:08 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas3-montreal42-1242354060.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 18:01:53 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.16.2] has joined #lisp 18:02:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:02:42 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:05:28 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:53 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:13 -!- gravicappa 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client for Emacs)] 18:46:09 zajn [~zajn@129.8.204.22] has joined #lisp 18:48:16 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 18:48:21 Greetings lispers 18:48:48 -!- sirdancealot1 is now known as undefined_alien 18:50:46 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.73.108.51] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:55 akovalenko [~user@95.73.108.51] has joined #lisp 19:01:01 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:22 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-223-001-189.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 19:06:35 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:54 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:01 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 19:12:53 -!- groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 19:14:10 prxq 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quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:31 add^_ [~add^_@5.241.232.65] has joined #lisp 20:50:20 -!- eldariof [~CLD@213.80.223.84] has quit [] 20:52:04 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:58:26 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:00:40 reckler [~reckler@ppp118-208-89-19.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:52 -!- zorkmoid_ [1fd100fa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.209.0.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:01:17 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.194.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:02:25 juliohm [~julio@unaffiliated/juliohm] has joined #lisp 21:02:47 !books 21:03:15 What is a good book for learning LISP? 21:05:17 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-152-179.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 21:06:05 juliohm: http://www.cliki.net/Lisp%20books 21:06:06 minion: tell julohm about PCL 21:06:06 julohm: have a look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 21:06:39 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-152-179.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:07:01 thanks Fade 21:07:02 thanks Bike 21:14:35 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:14:54 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:16 -!- dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 21:22:28 dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:21 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:24:39 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:25:17 -!- ebobby [~fms@189.170.16.14] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:26:16 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:44 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 21:29:55 hi 21:30:45 I'm having a doubt about organizing my code in CLOS 21:31:06 how do you organize files with generic functions, methods and the classes themselves? 21:32:05 Denommus: the thing I seen that makes sense is to care about "protocols", which would be sets of generic functions (think interfaces) separately, and to do the rest according to code relationship 21:32:19 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:32:41 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 21:32:57 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Client Quit] 21:34:33 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 21:35:12 p_l: hm. More or less like having an "IThing" and a "Thing" on C#? 21:35:45 I could make a directory called "protocols" and another called "classes", for instance? 21:36:32 Denommus: you could, but there's no reason for 21:36:59 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 21:37:07 there's no useful relationship between file organization and code, other than what build system might use 21:37:15 I 21:37:32 I'd suggest to organize by functionality, not arbitrary classification 21:39:22 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@248.Red-79-157-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:39:43 -!- tb [~tb@cpe-67-49-139-65.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 21:39:54 Tell me of a problem that is easily handled by LISP and that can be extremely hard to program in mainstream languages such as C. 21:39:54 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 21:40:04 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:11 What makes LISP so peculiar? 21:41:07 Up to now, i can't see any particular feature that differentiate it from the other languages. 21:42:04 juliohm: Arithmetic. 21:42:31 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@outbound.terrawi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:42:45 p_l: code organization is important to have beautiful code. I'm just not used to CLOS, I'm more used to object orientation from Java, C#, Ruby, and even Javascript. CLOS is really different, so I'm still kind of lost 21:43:06 juliohm, Euthy: changing the behaviour of the application while it is running 21:44:58 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:09 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:45:10 Denommus: Yes, code organization can be important. However, there's not much use of rigid external rules for choosing where to send what, other maybe than the common use of "package.lisp" with each multi-file package in its own directory 21:45:20 the organization should follow function, IMO 21:45:23 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:40 mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-195-167.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 21:45:40 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-195-167.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Changing host] 21:45:40 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:47:11 -!- HG` [~HG@95.154.204.206] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:47:35 -!- breakds [~breakds@dyn-72-33-177-82.uwnet.wisc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:48:21 Euthy, arithmetic? 21:48:21 juliohm: If you can't see what diffirentiates Lisp from C, ... 21:48:39 Yes. If a and b are ints, what is a + b, in C? 21:48:54 Denommus, but we can achieve this changing in behavior at some level by doing if/else in C 21:49:06 Euthy, int? 21:49:17 juliohm: Sometimes. Other times, undefined behaviour. 21:49:27 why? 21:50:16 int+int = double ? 21:50:19 lol 21:51:14 juliohm: Overflow yield undefined behaviour. 21:51:26 s/yield/yields/ 21:51:31 fullprec int + fullprec int = halfprec int ? 21:52:06 Euthy, and how LISP overcomes overflow conditions? 21:52:33 groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #lisp 21:52:49 and i think even when overflow happens in C, the type still an int 21:53:01 juliohm: No. 21:53:05 C is strongly typed, no? 21:53:13 -!- doomlord_ [~doomlod@86.171.15.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:59 It has undefined behaviour, meaning anything can happen. You can ask for more details in ##c. 21:54:15 Euthy, and how LISP overcomes overflow conditions? 21:54:17 juliohm: You might be interested in this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_completeness 21:55:03 I don't know Lisp, so I dare not speculate. Maybe someone else can fill you in, though. 21:55:05 juliohm: no. It's not the same thing at all 21:55:06 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-144-100.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:15 -!- Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:55:32 -!- impomatic [~digital_w@181.253.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:55:58 juliohm: in Lisp, you can change completely the definition of a method _while the application is running_ 21:56:00 juliohm: there's just no overflow condition with integers 21:56:32 in other languages, you have to at least close the application 21:56:34 juliohm: it's using arbitrary precision arithmetic 21:56:37 doomlord_ [~doomlod@86.171.15.248] has joined #lisp 21:56:54 the only overflow is when your memory runs out 21:57:00 in C, you'd have to recompile the whole thing, reinstall and then it will have changed 21:57:19 I think only lisp has this feature, since "code is data" 21:57:21 pers [~user@57.sub-174-255-161.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 21:57:23 -!- pers [~user@57.sub-174-255-161.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 21:58:08 Denommus: No. And depending on what you mean you can do the same thing in C. Lisp can be implemented in C, after all. 21:58:37 Euthy: you'd have to "script" it somehow. The code that runs can't be changed 21:59:41 Euthy: ok, my last phrase wasn't clear at all. You'd have to provide some type of scripting language or DSL in C, which the application, in real time, would read at all times. Yes, this is possible. No, it's not as trivial as in Lisp 21:59:57 what are you talking about? 22:00:31 stassats`: changing function and method definition with the application running 22:00:51 and what's the problem? 22:01:16 Lisp can handle that without previous preparation. C can't 22:01:39 you could call a C compiler in C to compile a dynamic library and link it in on the fly, although that wouldn't be in any way a good idea :) 22:02:11 Denommus: what stops you from writing an implementation of C which possesses such a property? 22:03:15 stassats`: blah blah blah, Turing Machine 22:03:34 let's be pragmatic here. Lisp can do that now. C can't. It's not deniable 22:03:52 that's just nonsense 22:05:26 ok, I actually don't want to debate over this 22:05:46 but this is an example of a thing that current Lisp implementations can do, and most other languages can't without previous preparing 22:05:51 you can modify a web application while it's running 22:05:58 Denommus: Don't say stupid things and people won't want to argue with you. :) 22:06:23 ozzen: web applications should be stateless, but that's a good example 22:07:45 stassats`, big integers is really old and available in many other languages 22:07:57 that's not a feature unique to LISP 22:08:05 juliohm: who said it was? 22:08:20 juliohm: Lisp had it first 22:08:21 juliohm: lisp has nothing other languages don't have 22:08:23 i was asking for a feature that makes LISP differnt 22:08:35 first of all, it's spelled Lisp, not LISP 22:08:43 what i can do easily in LISP that i cannot in other mainstream languages? 22:08:53 I think Lisp just makes you think 22:08:53 juliohm: Syntactic macros aren't very common, I don't think. 22:09:11 Euthy, syntactic macros? Could you elaborate? 22:09:25 juliohm: memoization is often mentioned as something that's hard to do in other languages 22:09:32 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 22:09:46 juliohm: you can adapt the language to your needs in rather unique ways 22:10:02 *helps* you think, I should say 22:10:47 there's http://random-state.net/features-of-common-lisp.html 22:11:20 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:11:25 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abov191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 22:11:55 there isn't any single feature that makes Common Lisp desirable to use, it's the combination of all of them 22:11:56 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:12:06 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:12:22 i'm reading the books to find some advantage, thanks to all 22:12:24 and you won't see it by hearing somebody preaching it to you 22:13:09 juliohm: Haven't read it, but: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/macros-standard-control-constructs.html 22:14:08 the advantages of Lisp don't really come clear until you've gotten some experience with it 22:14:30 -!- agumonkey [~agu@177.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:15:27 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:28 lduros` [~user@64-121-246-8.c3-0.rdl-ubr1.trpr-rdl.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:20 Jasko [~tjasko@174.59.201.95] has joined #lisp 22:16:40 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:43 Right. If you haven't tried programming functionally, you can't see why closures are a big deal. 22:18:44 -!- zajn [~zajn@129.8.204.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:01 juliohm: It really depends on where you're coming from and what you're looking for. 22:22:43 juliohm: A reason to learn Lisp is to learn a new way of thinking. A list of its features won't help you there. You really just have to learn it and use it. 22:23:34 Euthy, up to now, the only programming language that shifted my way of thinking was Haskell 22:23:39 -!- hydan [~udzinari@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: ...] 22:23:51 Lisp is not that great compared to it 22:24:01 Haskell is like awesome 22:24:03 How the hell would you know? 22:24:10 -!- Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:24:12 by reading the books? 22:24:16 Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 22:24:28 i did fast read some of them, nothing impressive 22:24:44 then what do you want from us? 22:24:54 -!- fantazo is now known as myst 22:25:17 -!- myst is now known as fantazo 22:25:19 stassats`, again, i was simply asking for a nice feature of Lisp that makes it a good choice 22:25:28 juliohm: you can't grok the language just by reading books 22:25:34 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:39 juliohm: A reason to learn Lisp is to learn a new way of thinking. A list of its features won't help you there. You really just have to learn it and use it. 22:25:43 juliohm: it's all of the features it has 22:26:01 this is kind of a dumb conversation. 22:26:02 plus quality open source implementations and IDE 22:26:03 juliohm: it's the whole picture more than every single feature. Syntax is big thing. 22:26:20 *Fade* pictures juliohm as angrycat. 22:26:35 juliohm: besides, i don't know the definition of your "nice" 22:26:39 imo, the best feature of lisp is its relative lack of syntax. 22:26:44 hydan [~udzinari@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 22:27:07 but I think maybe everybody has their own opinion on this. perhaps lisp has no awesome for you, juliohm. 22:27:07 By lack you mean regular? 22:29:35 well, the syntax is minimal to the near point of non-existence. 22:29:56 # disagrees with you 22:29:58 if it's not a list, it's an atom or a comment. 22:30:26 Its syntax is nice, though. :) 22:30:28 atom is a pretty broad category 22:30:43 what about #() "" #\a or #*01? 22:31:28 Ok, i'm really done with Lisp, nothing attractive on it. 22:31:29 or what about the way special operators or macros expect their arguments to be? it's not regular 22:31:33 Thank you all 22:31:36 juliohm: good 22:31:38 juliohm: Bye. 22:31:41 Bye 22:31:43 -!- juliohm [~julio@unaffiliated/juliohm] has left #lisp 22:31:43 juliohm: you are blind 22:31:59 what's up with people coming here and expecting lisp to be sold to them? 22:31:59 He's not blind, just arrogant. 22:32:16 while holding preconceived judgments which aren't not coming away? 22:32:19 i'm not sure, but it happens a lot. 22:32:49 To justify their preconceptions. 22:32:53 francisl [~anonymous@bas3-montreal42-1242354060.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:33:00 If we can't convince them otherwise it means they are right. 22:33:06 juliohm isn't exactly a deep thinker, I'd say 22:33:07 maybe there's some cognitive dissonance involved "people say lisp is great, i don't see it: one if this is not right" 22:33:27 okay, slightly less minimal than non-existent. 22:33:47 but relative to other languages, the syntax is sparse. 22:34:02 function-call syntax is pretty regular, but macros and reader-macros are wild 22:34:15 *nod* 22:34:22 stassats`: macros? 22:34:36 that's what i said 22:34:38 how is that? 22:34:49 with-open-file has far different syntax from a function call, for instance 22:34:52 reader-macros - granted 22:34:53 -!- Guest43968 [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:34:59 ah, that. 22:35:13 people form whole religious sects out of fear of LOOP 22:35:33 stassats`: really? 22:35:45 "How I stopped worrying and learned to love LOOP." 22:35:56 prxq: well, yeah! 22:36:23 there was a fellow who was coming here regularly a few years ago who railed on with great vigour about how awful loop was. 22:36:37 was it madnificent? 22:36:40 Hexastream 22:36:44 ahh, right 22:37:02 *stassats`* ways his hand in case he sees it in the logs 22:37:24 In Hexstream's defence, he at least learnt and knows more than a bit 22:37:49 :) 22:37:56 so he is techniocally part of the varied group with whom LOOP never sit right since it got in 22:38:05 some people went as far as writing a thing called 'iterate'! 22:38:16 prxq: there was a non-code-walker iterate, too 22:38:18 iterate does have other reasons for existence, at least 22:38:20 prxq: inconceivable! 22:38:37 and actually if I had extensible LOOP I'd be quite pleased :3 22:38:47 stassats`: i'm quite sure it is real! 22:38:47 stassats`: you'd dumb. You could have said juliohm that what he can do easily in lisp and can't in the other programming language is having fun programming! 22:38:52 s/'d/'re/ 22:39:05 pjb: where were you when we needed you?? 22:39:08 iterate is a fairly nice package, but it's kind of a vestigal dependency in anything that uses it 22:39:16 p_l: do implementations other than sbcl have extensible loop? 22:39:28 Bike: ... SBCL has extensible loop? 22:39:33 *DONK* 22:39:41 well, iterate has this whole irregular syntax thing, just with parenthesis slapped around 22:39:47 *prxq* donks too 22:39:47 p_l: i don't think it's really documented but i've seen it once or twice 22:40:05 p_l: it's based off of that old MIT loop which is a monster designed to work across old lisps and stuff 22:40:26 *p_l* shouldn't be surprised that there is a ton of stuff that he wouldn't know unless he directly stumbled on it 22:40:52 prxq: I was writing code. Greenspunning like the devil, if you want to know :-) 22:40:53 yeah, i just saw it in crhodes' SEQUENCE paper, where he added a path for iterating over sequences 22:41:27 heh 22:41:52 Next time I should use ecl. But it started as a small C program, so 22:42:51 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:43:08 it's (loop for x being the elements of sequence) 22:43:28 has anyone here written a do/do* loop in recent times? 22:43:38 relatedly, did you know sbcl has extensible sequences? i don't think that's in the docs either! 22:44:00 how are they extended 22:44:02 ? 22:44:15 with methods, naturally 22:44:28 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-144-100.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:44:28 Fade: look at the sb-sequence package 22:44:29 *prxq* writes do loops every now and then 22:44:47 prxq: only for code golfing 22:44:52 Bike: I've read about extensible sequences, afaik they were the examples for a proposed CL extension 22:45:10 prxq: well, what's really bad with do/do*, is that you often have a repeatition as in (do ((i e e)) ...) 22:45:12 the proposal is implemented in sbcl and abcl, i think 22:45:35 pjb: but you can use #1=! 22:45:53 now, what was that about no syntax? 22:46:02 pjb: i agree, but in a language where the verbosity of defclass is tolerated, that's kind of a moot point, no? 22:46:54 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.253.7] has joined #lisp 22:47:25 #1=( ... 22:47:26 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@174.59.201.95] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:33 okay, that's hands down the strangest syntax in CL. 22:47:42 even accounting for loop 22:47:45 and format 22:47:53 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:58 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:09 prxq: sure, it's kind of a meta-first-world-problem. :-) 22:48:10 what about #. 22:48:16 what about #+#.(cl:if ... '(:and) '(:or))? 22:48:23 pjb: heh :-) 22:48:28 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:29 now you're just giving me a headache. 22:48:30 heh 22:49:26 and why people always bring syntax, but forget about semantics? 22:51:05 i think the important question is whether we should attempt to comply with these requests to sell lisp to random noobs. 22:51:12 it's legitmate to talk about syntax alone 22:52:32 Fade: worth a shot, I'd say. Worst thing that can happen is that we call the noob a moron :-) 22:53:38 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:59 it's a peculiar attitude, I find 22:54:10 "proove to me this isn't a waste of my precious time." 22:54:59 -!- ngz [~user@254.83.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:55:00 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:55:21 minion: do you like Lisp? 22:55:22 you'd have to tell me... my memory circuits are fried 22:55:36 minion: and what about Common Lisp? 22:55:36 i'm written in common lisp 22:55:57 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:56:02 -!- add^_ [~add^_@5.241.232.65] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 22:56:19 lol 22:56:28 minion: version? 22:56:28 This is the minion bot, running on a X86 (Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU 5160 @ 3.00GHz) and running under SBCL 1.0.56. 22:57:08 quite a bit of oomph, the critter 22:57:12 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:57:21 well, it's cl.net 22:57:34 probably virtualized or something 22:58:09 he's silent about his own version. 22:58:42 that's because it doesn't have any 22:58:43 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:01 stassats`: no revision number in a vcs? 22:59:17 it's in git 22:59:23 that way it looks as if he's trying to hide something 22:59:25 so, what a hash would tell you? 22:59:34 it's about transparency 22:59:43 minion: are you transparent? 22:59:43 maybe 22:59:59 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:00:21 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:01:23 -!- skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA084A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:01:24 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:01:27 well, its code isn't really available either 23:02:46 bitonic` [~user@b0fe5dc7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 23:03:13 impomatic [~digital_w@46.208.232.87] has joined #lisp 23:03:21 *prxq* hopes no one accidentally deletes those fasls 23:04:06 well, the code exists 23:04:11 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 23:04:12 just not publicly available 23:04:35 stassats`: i know, I was joking :-) 23:04:54 and it actually is backed up 23:05:34 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 23:06:25 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:07:50 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:08:16 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:08:31 breakds [~breakds@dyn-72-33-177-82.uwnet.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 23:09:11 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0816.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:09:21 skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA084A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:10:51 -!- bitonic` [~user@b0fe5dc7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:11:43 -!- lduros` [~user@64-121-246-8.c3-0.rdl-ubr1.trpr-rdl.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:21 -!- skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA084A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:12:50 skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA084A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:14:11 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:14:28 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:03 seangrove [~user@71.202.126.17] has joined #lisp 23:15:08 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:15:58 -!- worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:17:04 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.19] has joined #lisp 23:18:27 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 23:20:38 -!- Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:22:16 Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 23:27:46 Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 23:27:48 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.220] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:10 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:30:37 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:31:33 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46.65.36.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:08 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.73.108.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:35:34 Again, if we had a bot written in lisp, smart enough to sell lisp, it would be nice. Minion is just not up to the job. 23:36:17 it's chant and dance bot..... 23:36:20 lol 23:37:12 dous [~dous@cm222.sigma69.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 23:37:12 -!- dous [~dous@cm222.sigma69.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Changing host] 23:37:12 dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has joined #lisp 23:53:04 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:06 sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp