00:00:42 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:01:47 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 00:03:27 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-86-89.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 00:03:40 (loop do (locally (declare (something)) )) 00:09:04 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:09:47 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@172.1.59.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:09:51 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:41 sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 00:10:53 -!- agumonkey [~agu@63.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:11:23 -!- heatsink [~heatsink@mobile-130-126-255-198.near.illinois.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:11:35 -!- sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:13:55 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:14:49 hiteki` [~user@2a01:e35:2ed9:5530:211:24ff:febf:9313] has joined #lisp 00:15:21 -!- hiteki [~user@2a01:e35:2ed9:5530:211:24ff:febf:9313] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:54 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:20:53 liweinan_ [~liweinan@222.130.237.232] has joined #lisp 00:22:00 -!- impomatic [~digital_w@87.114.138.192] has quit [Quit: http://corewar.co.uk] 00:23:11 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-177-175.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:29:20 sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 00:31:43 vi1 [~vi1@93.92.216.186] has joined #lisp 00:31:58 -!- karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:33:49 karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:36:42 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:50 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:38:07 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:38:37 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:39:35 In the ECL implementation, the packages store symbols in hash-tables that contain (key value) pairs of (A-big-integer symbol). Could anyone guess as to what the A-big-integer represents? Why wouldn't the key be the name of the symbol? 00:39:35 drmeister, memo from pjb: how do you want to have a good CL-C++ integration if your CL is not multi-threaded? C++ programs are almost always multi-threaded! 00:39:47 rukubites [~user@d58-111-185-68.meb802.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:40:20 drmeister: er, a hash of the string, probably? 00:40:31 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 00:40:34 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 00:41:18 minion: My needs are a little different. I need to run my CL code on tens of thousands of processors and I use MPI. Threads are small change. 00:41:19 i need more cpu 00:41:28 minion is a robot. 00:41:44 Hi there. I regularly do lisp scripting using sbcl on linux. If I start a script with: "#!/usr/bin/sbcl --script", it works fine. However, if I start the same script with "#!/usr/bin/sbcl --dynamic-space-size 1536 --script" 00:41:53 drmeister: have you tried zeromq? 00:41:54 Bike: Really? But he asks such intelligent questions. 00:42:02 drmeister: "memo from pjb" 00:42:20 Bike: How do I respond to pjb? 00:42:33 (however, it fails with the dynamic-space-size option) 00:42:40 I need more minions. 00:43:00 drmeister: /msg minion help 00:43:16 drmeister: or, if he's around, you can just say what you want to say :) 00:43:49 pjb: Are you here? 00:44:04 rukubites: What is zeromq? 00:44:25 Bike: The hash won't be guaranteed to be unique though would it? 00:44:53 Bike: I'm probably confused, maybe the hash of the symbol name is perfectly fine. 00:44:57 drmeister: do you know how hash tables work? 00:45:26 Bike: I've implemented mine in C++ so I think I do - I could be fooling myself though. 00:45:47 drmeister: usually there are mechanisms to deal with collisions 00:45:50 Bike: More likely it's because I'm exhausted. 00:46:39 on` [~on@141.Red-88-11-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:52 drmeister: zeromq is a low-level cross-platform messaging API. 00:47:00 drmeister: then get some rest and look at it with a fresh mind. there's no use in working when you'll continuously doubt yourself :) 00:47:12 Good for tcp, interprocess and interthread communication. 00:47:49 rukubites: also, what are you building, that needs such a vast amount of processors? 00:48:03 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-110-128.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:48:07 madnificent: I think you mean drmeister . :-) 00:48:20 i do 00:48:24 drmeister: ^ that 00:48:29 He is probably re-architecting Google in lisp. 00:48:36 20% time 00:48:37 Bike: I'm aware of that and I implemented that. I kinda thought you would still like to keep the keys unique but I'm guessing I'm wrong about that. My implementation works and to paraphrase Feynman: "What I create, I understand". 00:48:43 drmeister: anyway, the symbol name wouldn't be great because that would make every symbol lookup a string comparison 00:49:05 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 00:49:28 and it would make two symbols with the same name have the same value even though they're different, and we don't want that 00:49:33 drmeister: practically speaking you can't usually keep the keys unique (insert argument from pigeonhole here) 00:49:43 madnificent: Software to design nanoscale catalysts, new therapeutics and molecular devices. 00:50:14 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-110-128.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:50:30 f03lipe [~f03lipe@186.205.212.50] has joined #lisp 00:50:49 Bike: You have just pointed out an inefficiency in my code. Thank you. I'll switch to hashes. 00:51:52 madnificent: Wait, I thought that two symbols in the same package can not have the same name. Or do you mean different packages? 00:51:55 drmeister: I think CL is designed with this in mind, given that you have to use find-symbol etc. to get a symbol from a string. perfect place to put hashing calls 00:52:38 I missed what the bottleneck is in drmeister's code? 00:53:10 bottleneck? he was just asking why ecl (apparently) implements packages as hashtables 00:53:26 Ahhh. Okay, context then. 00:53:30 Thanks. :-) 00:53:39 rukubites: I'm storing symbols in my packages by their names - forcing lots of string comparisons rather than as hashes. 00:53:42 drmeister: and what if they're from different packages? or if they don't have a package at all? (it's possible, though not necessarily likely to happen) 00:53:56 gensyms are pretty likely 00:54:24 drmeister: why are you doing this? 00:54:30 Bike: point taken. i built my test-case on '#:foo :) 00:55:00 I assumed there was a bottleneck because from the context there is some problem and 10,000+ cpus are being used. :-) 00:55:22 I think that was just drmeister's intended response to pjb about something else. 00:55:28 oh kk. 00:55:29 rukubites: I was answering two different questions. 00:56:16 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:30 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:57:04 rukubites: My larger problem is that I need to search through enormous multidimensional spaces to design molecules. To do this I use as many processors as I can get my hands on. I run on KRAKEN, one of the larger computers on the NSF-Teragrid - 99,000+ processors. 00:57:26 sounds fun. 00:58:14 The heavy lifting is done using C++ code. I'm writing a Common Lisp compiler to drive everything. I don't need terribly fast CL what it gives me is expressiveness. 00:59:24 hopefully symbol lookup wouldn't be a bottleneck for that, anyway. but good hash tables would probably help. 00:59:59 drmeister: please benchmark and optimize later (and don't use strings if they aren't the correct abstraction) 01:00:05 (Also, for the sbcl --dynamic-size xxxx --script problem, I found http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=87zkanool3.fsf%40inbox.ru&forum_name=sbcl-help ) 01:02:05 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:02:07 Is there an RFC822 (and newer) library for parsing e-mails? I need to write a procmail filter that will correctly parse some headers (including decoding printed-quotable and such)? 01:04:30 Hm, seeing com.informatimago.common-lisp.rfc2822 in quicklisp. 01:04:33 Will have a look. 01:04:49 madnificent: I'm trying to use the ECL Common Lisp source code - this forces me to hew very closely to ECL's implementation details. 01:05:15 drmeister: note however that in ECL compiled code symbols can be refered just as integers for things like EQ; but you're right about the packages using a hash table to store symbols 01:05:49 phadthai: You speak as one who understands the ways of ECL. 01:06:29 drmeister: so, you're trying to optimize your code whilst using one of the slowest implementations... sounds wise. 01:06:43 he's trying to integrate it with C++ somehow. 01:06:45 drmeister: well I'm an ECL user 01:07:21 phadthai: I haven't met anyone who uses ECL yet. What do you do with it? Are you embedding it in anything or embedding anything in it? 01:08:14 drmeister: the only real application I wrote for it so far was an httpd, but I've used it for a lot of in-house scripts and small utilities, not really very high performance needs 01:10:59 madnificent: I'm slowly getting more and more of it (ECL source code) to run. My back-end is LLVM. I'm trying to get DEFPACKAGE to work right now and that requires "packlib.lsp" and that accesses ECL package implementation details. So here I am asking questions about stuff I see but don't yet understand. 01:11:45 Bike: Should I store shadowing symbols in a hash-table as well? 01:12:12 drmeister: the current maintainer also gives good support on the ecl development mailing list btw 01:12:29 Currently I use c++ standard template library map structures to store symbols. 01:12:45 I don't know much of anything about how packages are implemented. 01:13:16 phadthai: I should talk with him. I've avoided talking to people until now because they would probably try and talk me out of what I'm doing. I don't have time for that. 01:13:18 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.253.89] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 01:14:40 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.152.183] has joined #lisp 01:15:54 LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 01:16:08 -!- liweinan_ [~liweinan@222.130.237.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:12 Bike: No matter. I appreciate your help. 01:17:32 if you're using the STL i would guess that there's a good hash table implementation available for your packages, if map isn't one 01:18:58 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:19:12 -!- breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:22:00 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 01:22:49 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:25:25 -!- Ymir [~ymirr@188.115.37.196] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 01:27:54 -!- alkul [~alk@108.Red-79-158-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: alkul] 01:30:12 what are my options for advising slime to indent a macro differently then it would normally do? 01:31:29 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 01:31:56 any pointers are welcome (even if they arrive late) 01:34:39 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:33 -!- lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:37:05 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:37:30 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:44:23 cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:54 metaclass means grandparent class, right? 01:45:07 No, it means the class of the class. 01:45:13 melvin- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 01:45:13 cornihilio: no, it's the class the class belongs to 01:45:17 Remember that classes are instances. 01:45:21 cornihilio: versus the class the instance belongs to. 01:46:35 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:55 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:47:48 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 01:48:23 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:55 so for (a)object->(b)class1->(c)class2, class2 is the metaclass of class1? 01:49:14 sorry the arrows are wrong 01:49:20 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:29 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:29 assuming that's supposed to be instance of, I guess. 01:53:17 -!- on` [~on@141.Red-88-11-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:29 zajn_ [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:45 cornihilio: (defclass foo ()()) (class-of (find-class 'foo)) no super classes, but the class has a class ad infinitum 01:55:00 cornihilio: say that A is the class of the instance a. 01:55:06 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55:36 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:55:49 cornihilio: now, when you write methods on instances of the class A, you tell the method: (defmothed some-method ((my-a A)) (do-stuff-with my-a)) 01:55:55 * method 01:56:05 cornihilio: and my casing is horrible, but i'll use it anyway 01:56:23 cornihilio: now, classes are treated as instances too. the class itself has slots and all that. 01:56:26 The metaclass of A tells you how A is implemented. The superclass of A tells you what A inherits. 01:56:30 so A, is an instance... 01:56:56 cornihilio: now, to what class does the instance A belong? that class is the metaclass :) 01:58:38 cornihilio: you can see it in things like slot-value-using-class. the generic function takes as arguments (class object slotname). now, if you want to specialize on the metaclass, you'd say that class must be an instance of metaclass. 01:58:57 -!- rukubites [~user@d58-111-185-68.meb802.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:59:02 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:24 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:30 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-86-89.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:04:39 everything in lisp is an object 02:04:59 and every object has a class, which itself is an object (otherwise it couldn't be returned) 02:05:07 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 02:05:07 loke_erc [~user@c-4957e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 02:13:10 ragnul: everything in lisp is an instance. and each instance has a type, but the instance does not necessarily belong to a class. you cannot extend the integer class, for instance. 02:13:50 what i want to express is: not everything is CLOS. 02:14:00 madnificent: that doesn't make it any less of a class. it just has special behavior 02:14:16 integer is a type, it is not a class 02:14:17 also, I don't think built-in-classes are required to be non-subclassable 02:14:32 clhs integer 02:14:33 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_intege.htm 02:14:40 madnificent: it's a class too. 02:14:44 better example would be fixnum. 02:14:52 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:53 right 02:15:45 ragnul: it'll be unspecified at best 02:15:53 even though, technically, bignum and fixnum should be separate classes and integer should be the union type of the two from the POV of what must be done to implement them 02:16:48 It's unfortunate that they are types, not classes. 02:16:51 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:00 although I suppose that would make it painful to write methods that just take integers 02:17:10 But there should be separate corresponding classes that subclass from integer. 02:17:18 s/should/ought to/ 02:17:26 in the implementation, I would expect that to be the case 02:17:49 (deftype fixnum 'fixnum-impl) kind of thing 02:18:03 (plus parens) 02:18:07 No. fixnum needs to be defined in terms of a range of integers. 02:18:13 you could define a layer on top with wrappers. but i don't necessarily mind the way it's implemented now. it can be fast, and it's still strongly typed and well-integrated with CLOS's methods. 02:18:52 interesting as it is, i'm signing off. enjoy the meta 02:18:55 Zhivago: I don't think it has to be defined exactly like that. it just has to happen to be type-equal to (integer most-neg-fix most-pos-fix) 02:19:19 Which is ... a range of integers. 02:19:29 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 02:19:43 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.160.201] has joined #lisp 02:19:45 right, but that doesn't have to be the definiion 02:19:52 It pretty much does. 02:20:01 Fortunately classes and types are completely separate things. 02:20:02 should fixnums be determined by their numerical range or their storage (which implies a certain range, but implication is only one way)? 02:20:23 You can have fixnum-impl which is a subtype of fixnum, and a subclass of integer. 02:20:36 Quadrescence: exactly my point 02:20:55 Zhivago: hmm, that would work, too 02:21:14 mathrick_ [~mathrick@94.144.63.80] has joined #lisp 02:23:43 -!- zajn_ [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:45 PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-213.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 02:25:13 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:25:36 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has joined #lisp 02:26:58 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:37 Quadrescence: Both. 02:27:52 The former is required for type inference upon arithmetic. 02:28:01 On that topic: What is the difference between classes and types? I understand classes very well. Types I'm a little less clear. Types in CL appear to be like predicates - something is either of a type or it isn't. 02:28:06 The latter is required for storage specification. 02:28:16 A type is a set of potential values. 02:28:23 zajn_ [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:25 drmeister: the clhs chapter is pretty helpful. basically they are sets. 02:28:26 A class describes an implementation. 02:28:28 pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.184] has joined #lisp 02:29:19 types are referred to indirectly with specifiers, like the symbol cl:integer, the list (mod 14), or the class you'd get from (find-class 'class). 02:29:36 types are kind of predicates, yeah... or at least they are selectors for a predicate when passed to typep :) 02:29:36 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:29:40 Bike: So "Integer" describes a set and a value is either in the set or it isn't. (integer 0 500) is a subset of integer. 02:29:49 yes. 02:29:55 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:34 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.146.194.39] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:31:28 Bike_ [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:47 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:31:52 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 02:31:59 (type-of 0) ;) 02:32:07 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:32:29 The predicate code in ECL consists of a small number of functions and a huge number of tests. 02:33:04 changxue [~changxue@118.122.165.42] has joined #lisp 02:33:09 I haven't seen ECL, but I think ABCL has the smallest type system implementation of the ones I've looked at. 02:33:22 as opposed to ccl and sbcl, which go so far as to implement something like generic functions... 02:33:42 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 02:35:35 Generic functions operate on classes, not types. 02:36:01 zhivago, I mean in their implementation of unions and so on on types. 02:36:09 define-type-method and so forth. 02:36:19 Ok. 02:36:42 rmathews [~roshan@122.164.30.248] has joined #lisp 02:36:48 drewc, why does SBCL return BIT for (type-of 0) instead of something like (INTEGER 0 0) 02:37:17 maybe it doesn't want to cons up a specifier. 02:37:36 minion: memo for pjb: Re CL-C++ and multithreading. My goal isn't to develop a general CL implementation. I'm doing scientific programming with specific C++ libraries and I use OpenMPI to distribute processes across thousands of processors. Multi-threading is a lot of trouble for too little gain. 02:37:36 Remembered. I'll tell pjb when he/she/it next speaks. 02:38:59 Bike, maybe we need a (declare (type-exactitude 3)) form :] 02:39:18 I should look at more code that uses type-of to see what it's for. 02:40:15 brandonz [~brandon@c-24-6-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:46 -!- changxue [~changxue@118.122.165.42] has left #lisp 02:40:58 Bike, implementing TYPECASE or something? 02:40:59 It finds a quasi minimal type that contains the value. 02:41:24 How important is pointer tagging for improving the efficiency of a CL implementation? 02:42:08 Dylan provides an interesting counter-case to tagging. 02:42:16 Quadrescence: You can do that with cond and typep, and I'm not sure that (type-of x) => y implies that y is a subtype of all z such that x is a z. 02:42:18 <|3b|> type-of has to return a type that is a subtype of any type from the spec which includes the value 02:42:42 Bike, i think this might be a case where you can implement things in a circular fashion 02:42:46 Instead of tagging, they use class-interrogable containers where the class is not statically determiniable. 02:43:00 And then optimize these away as much as they can. 02:43:07 Apparantly it works quite well. 02:44:11 Zhivago: Is that a paper? 02:44:44 It is a dialect of lisp. 02:45:05 hmm reminds me some cl implementation of sequence functions I read, but I forget which 02:45:21 Zhivago: well, is there a paper on this representation strategy? 02:45:44 Probably -- search for gwyddion dylan. 02:45:55 They were the people who earlier implemented CMUCL. 02:46:06 thanks. 02:46:57 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:47:58 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.153.37.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:49:32 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 02:50:31 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:50:42 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:21 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 02:57:13 Bike_ [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:59 Zhivago: the method used in Gwydion Dylan was somewhat threading unfriendly. 03:00:14 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-24-6-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:00:17 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:02:21 I'm implementing a compiler using LLVM as a backend. When I call a function, the caller can pass different numbers of arguments. The callee accepts whatever number of arguments it is given and then uses the lambda list for the function to fill in all the missing/default arguments. 03:02:42 -!- zajn_ [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:58 Another way I could do this is I could have the caller use the lambda-list to fill in whatever it is missing and then call the callee with a fixed number of arguments. 03:03:44 I've read that the second option is considered a bad idea within the Scheme community. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? 03:03:50 drmeister: what we do in XXXXX is to have multiple entry points. If everything is known, call the fast one, otherwise there are some slower ones that handle keywords, defaults, etc. 03:05:27 i think we should go back to the days when we only had fixed arity functions, and maybe have keyword argument functions too, FWIW 03:05:28 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:05:28 brucem: That's the ticket! I was thinking a fast entry point where all arguments are passed. A slow one that uses "C" varargs for APPLY and FUNCALL and then a whole bunch of custom ones for different numbers of arguments and different orders of keyword arguments. 03:06:32 brucem: What is XXXXX? 03:06:36 drmeister: You don't need different ones for different orders of keyword arguments. 03:06:39 is it worth it to handle different keyword argument orders? you already have to worry about :allow-other-keys and multiple keys 03:06:55 drewc, was it you who claimed to have found a good use for optional args? 03:07:00 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:07:18 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 03:07:22 Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:07:30 drmeister: OpenDylan in that case, but in this case, the ideas and approaches can be similar. 03:08:36 So I guess this is considered a good idea for Common Lisp? 03:08:48 drmeister: Given some time, I can put together pointers into the sources for what we do / how we do it, if it is useful. 03:09:08 Is that because the calling convention is so much more complex than Scheme? 03:10:38 -!- melvin- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 03:10:41 drmeister: Which CL are you doing an LLVM backend for? 03:10:49 It took 2 attempts this afternoon, but I finally merged the necessary code into LispPlotter to remove all dependencies. 03:10:54 without compilation unit support or inline declarations, it's hard to perform that sort of early binding. CL allows nearly arbitrary function redefinition. 03:12:02 brucem: I'm rolling my own. The core is in C++ and I'm using the CL source code from ECL. 03:12:46 *ThomasH* realizes that LispPlotter is LW specific. 03:12:51 Sorry for the noise. 03:13:59 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-213.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:14:01 pkhuong: Oh yes, I forgot about that - that was a big problem. 03:14:12 -!- pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.184] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:14:43 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:55 and clos and class instance accesses are even more difficult to optimize than functions and structs 03:16:44 as redefining a structure has undefied consequences, it allows accesses to be better optimized statically 03:16:50 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:17:02 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 03:17:40 merxx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 03:18:59 -!- karswell [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19:11 Quadrescence: yes, I have! 03:19:15 karswell [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:19:56 it sounds like a whole lot of work to roll your own CL compiler for one application, even if that application is a giant distributed molecular design-space search tool 03:20:00 -!- techlife [techlife@218.59.116.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:20:15 drewc, what was it 03:20:38 in a parametric contructor for an interface. 03:20:45 https://github.com/drewc/lisp-interface-library/blob/interface/monad/interface/monad/maybe.lisp 03:21:18 Dalek_Baldwin: It is. I didn't know what I was getting into. I also have stubbornness issues. 03:21:23 :( 03:21:41 Quadrescence: so, a good use, if you need a parametric contructor 03:22:47 Particularly when CL isn't such a good choice for distributed computing. 03:23:04 regardless, I do use it for utils these days that are not exported and internal ... but only for one arg .. any more and it is &key's 03:23:30 drmeister: I know what you mean, I'm starting to go down that same path... for a similar application 03:23:54 *drewc* scrolls up .. 03:24:10 Quadrescence: because that is the type, of course! ;) 03:24:41 Zhivago: It's a great choice for emmbarasingly parallelizable (sp???) problems like mine. Very little communication between processes - very complex things going on. 03:24:48 clhs bit 03:24:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_bit.htm 03:25:02 I know that is the type 03:25:22 but it is not the most specific type :) 03:25:32 so why does type-of return the most specific type? 03:25:38 drmeister: So, no better than C with respect to parallelism, then. 03:26:07 And with implementations that expect to have huge per-process overhead to cram everything into one image? 03:26:16 Well, I guess your own implementation can avoid that problem. 03:26:56 techlife [techlife@218.59.116.38] has joined #lisp 03:26:57 drewc, it doesn't need to. i was just wondering if there was a reason, or if it was just arbitrary. 03:27:05 Zhivago: I serialize very complex data structures as S-expressions and toss them between processors using OpenMPI. That's better than "C". 03:27:25 or : does type-of have a specification beyond "Returns a type specifier, typespec, for a type that has the object as an element." :) 03:27:43 Quadrescence: i think i twas mentioned here before, and the answer was that they didn't want to cons up a new specifier every time. not sure. 03:28:07 more cons-fearing! 03:28:24 Dalek_Baldwin: What are you working on? 03:28:30 Quadrescence: There likely is a reason ... what it is I cannot say beyond 0 and 1 are BITs and that is all I know 03:29:43 drmeister: I might have to consult my NDA before I respond to that 03:31:35 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:22 Dalek_Baldiwn: Well good luck. Check out LLVM and I hope your SO is very understanding. 03:33:27 PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-213.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 03:39:13 drmeister: it's somewhat off-topic here, but have you looked at clojure? But I guess that if you have to deal with C++ it's no real help 03:40:52 phadthai: Yes, clojure introduced me to CL. I just don't like all the different delimiters, the lack of mutable state and that it runs on the JVM. It's trying to solve a different problem than I have. 03:41:10 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 03:41:35 ok 03:42:15 Zhivago: the "cloud" services are so unefficient that they need a vm/os instance per task, yet they're really popular, still :) 03:44:18 phadthai: Why per task? 03:44:49 CL is the most powerful language I've ever seen and I've only been into it for about two years. I've programmed in Basic, C, C++, PYTHON, TCL, FORTRAN, Prolog, Smalltalk and Forth. 03:44:50 it's just a common configuration I guess 03:45:27 i'm not sure i've ever seen someone capitalize "python" before 03:45:35 Zhivago: it doesn't have to be, it's just technically so most of the time 03:45:58 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.153.37.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:12 phadthai: I suspect that in most cases, it isn't on a per task basis. 03:46:54 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-bkuadbibqlrzhyis] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:47:23 https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/master/doc/internals/make-top.sh 03:47:28 genius 03:47:56 phadthai: But on a per data-flow region basis. 03:49:55 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:50:29 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:52:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-124-109.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 03:59:35 Speaking of which -- I recommend FlumeJava: Easy, Efcient Data-Parallel Pipelines. 03:59:56 It provides a sensible set of primitives to replace mapreduction. 04:00:03 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@94.8.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:00:25 That's a paper title, not an advertisement. 04:00:30 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.158.53.108] has joined #lisp 04:03:01 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.92.1] 04:03:54 Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 04:04:25 -!- benny [~user@i577A8AA8.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:04:28 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:04:38 -!- Quadresce_ is now known as Quadrescence 04:05:53 drdo [~drdo@2a01:4f8:161:1363::2ce8:90bd] has joined #lisp 04:07:22 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:09:45 qptain_Nemo 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to define an infix reader macro like (foo #$ bar), where $ is the example dispatch macro character, and the reader macro is able to access foo and bar? 05:17:02 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:18:22 no. just put a reader macro for the parentheses instead. 05:20:33 okay, thanks 05:23:55 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:24:43 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 05:29:17 cfy` [~ilisp@220.191.186.26] has joined #lisp 05:30:56 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-213.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:33:11 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:33:31 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 05:34:22 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 05:36:03 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:36:12 sellout- 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kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:40:49 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 05:45:06 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 05:45:55 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:50:05 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 05:52:17 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:27 qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 05:53:50 I'm trying to run an old piece of software in sbcl. It's producing package lock violation errors. I think I know what it's doing that's causing the errors, but I don't know how to fix it. 05:54:10 There are several functions that use this idiom: http://pastebin.com/RJiQAc7i 05:54:33 nikodem [~mikey@user-46-112-91-9.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 05:55:09 Apparently, these functions want to dynamically set *package* to the package where they were defined, regardless of what package they're run from 05:55:14 heatsink: just remove the (declare (special *package*)). 05:56:14 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:56:46 If I remove it, then will the let expression define a new binding *package*, or will it assign the dynamic variable *package*? 05:57:18 it will rebind the correct variable, cl:*package*. 05:58:06 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 05:59:13 -!- qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:59:16 Okay, I guess that will work. 06:00:19 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 06:01:25 -!- irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:01:48 -!- n2kra [~chatzilla@pool-74-102-3-68.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:02:20 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02:37 n2kra [~chatzilla@74.102.3.68] has joined #lisp 06:02:40 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 06:03:12 irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.45] has joined #lisp 06:05:16 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-124-109.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:36 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:07:35 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:09:56 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:10:10 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:10:51 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:12:29 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:13:42 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 06:14:54 -!- irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.45] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:15:47 irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.45] has joined #lisp 06:17:51 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:19:16 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:20:49 qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 06:22:44 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:23:23 -!- cfy` [~ilisp@220.191.186.26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:23:38 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:53 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 06:24:05 agumonkey [~agu@63.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:11 It runs now, yay. 06:25:19 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:29:38 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 06:31:35 Let's see if I understand dynamic variable binding. 06:31:37 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 06:32:25 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.158.53.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:32:25 At a let binding (let ((N d)) e), first d is evaluated to value v. Then, if N is already bound to dynamic variable x, then dynamic variable x is bound to v during evaluation of e. Otherwise, lexical variable N is bound to v during evaluation of e. 06:32:41 That's my interpretation of http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/variables.html 06:33:01 Is that right? 06:34:01 heatsink: it depends on whether or not N is "special" 06:34:59 defvar and defparameter establish a name as special, but you can also declare something to be special 06:35:42 That page was talking about lexical and dynamic variables. I gather that the "special" keyword means a dynamic variable. 06:36:24 rmathews_ [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 06:36:41 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 06:36:41 heatsink: yes. You can do something really confusing like (let ((x y)) (let ((x z)) (declare (special x)) ... but you probably shouldn't 06:36:55 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:37:17 then the outer binding is lexical and the inner binding is dynamic and my brain explodes 06:37:53 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:37:53 -!- rmathews_ is now known as rmathews 06:37:53 Your bran explodes? Are you GHC? 06:38:08 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 06:38:57 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:39:21 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Client Quit] 06:39:50 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:40:00 -!- qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:40:18 -!- pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:40:33 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:44:48 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:45:47 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 06:46:18 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 06:47:52 heatsink: in your case, you need no (declare (special ...)) because *package* is declared special globally already. 06:48:04 pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has joined #lisp 06:48:46 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 06:49:21 BountyX [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has joined #lisp 06:49:30 -!- pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:50:52 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:57:49 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:59:13 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:01:03 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 07:01:45 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:55 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 07:02:34 -!- heatsink [~heatsink@ppp-70-225-174-89.dsl.chmpil.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:02:56 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:03:14 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:04:04 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: dead] 07:06:28 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 07:06:41 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:08:16 ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.79] has joined #lisp 07:08:31 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:09:50 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.209] has joined #lisp 07:09:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-149.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:10:24 antoszka: com.informatimago.common-lisp.rfc2822 is not what you want unfortunately. http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/doc/com.informatimago.common-lisp.rfc2822.rfc2822.html 07:10:24 pjb, memo from drmeister: Re CL-C++ and multithreading. My goal isn't to develop a general CL implementation. I'm doing scientific programming with specific C++ libraries and I use OpenMPI to distribute processes across thousands of processors. Multi-threading is a lot of trouble for too little gain. 07:10:31 ok. 07:13:03 antoszka: have a look at http://cliki.net/email 07:13:26 -!- capisce [~srodal@cm-84.215.35.251.getinternet.no] has quit [Changing host] 07:13:26 capisce [~srodal@oftn/member/capisce] has joined #lisp 07:15:29 minion: memo for drmeister: have a look at: http://xach.com/lisp/zpack.lisp and package.* in https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/lisp-reader 07:15:40 minion: have you looked at Lush? 07:15:40 Lush: istr having looked iirc 07:16:22 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.175.206.6] has joined #lisp 07:18:36 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:18:46 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 07:19:26 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:20:10 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 07:22:28 -!- Buglouse 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nikodem [~mikey@user-46-112-91-9.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:55:16 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.152.183] has left #lisp 08:56:33 agumonkey [~agu@240.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:54 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ngrbqlgfrkjstocd] has joined #lisp 08:58:19 -!- hkBst_ is now known as hkBst 09:01:41 minion: memo for drmeister: the calling convention is basically simple in CL: fixed arity only. What you can do, is to add a mandatory rest argument to functions that have &optional, &rest or &key, and cons a list of those optional argument in the callee to be passed in this mandatory rest argument. The function can then parse this list (as it shoudl, semantically). Anything else is actually speed optimization: you said you didn't 09:01:41 Remembered. I'll tell drmeister when he/she/it next speaks. 09:01:41 really need that. 09:01:51 minion: memo for drmeister: really need that. 09:01:51 Remembered. I'll tell drmeister when he/she/it next speaks. 09:02:18 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@84-182.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:05:50 -!- pyx [~pyx@108.162.178.78] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 09:12:14 nilsi [~nilsi@student-245-229.eduroam.uu.se] has joined #lisp 09:13:35 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:14:03 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@student-245-229.eduroam.uu.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:14:11 nilsi [~nilsi@student-245-229.eduroam.uu.se] has joined #lisp 09:14:14 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:17:21 -!- bitonic [~user@93-63-184-150.ip28.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:21:00 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 09:21:42 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:22:23 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@student-245-229.eduroam.uu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the 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timeout: 245 seconds] 11:15:37 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference] 11:19:25 ehu [~ehu@31.137.206.29] has joined #lisp 11:20:11 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-81-139.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 11:25:27 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:35:27 setmeaway [oosool3@118.45.149.239] has joined #lisp 11:36:03 leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.7.240] has joined #lisp 11:38:08 axion1 [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:38:10 -!- axion1 [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:38:31 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:39:10 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:39:10 holycow_ [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:08 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:55 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 11:46:41 Joreji [~thomas@84-182.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:51:08 is there some convention for how many columns to wrap comments/documentation strings to? Or is it just personal preference? 11:51:31 80 is pretty standard 11:51:40 i'd say more like 70 11:51:56 mau [~mau@2606:df00:3:3:e919:a9be:2a33:6833] has joined #lisp 11:52:33 Okay, cheers 11:52:35 Strigoides: i wrap them the same as my code, for which i use 100 in lisp 11:52:47 I just noticed that I was being wildly inconsistent, and figured I should decide on a number 11:52:55 (i think the style guide from ITA said to cap at 100 charactres 11:53:16 cfy` [~ilisp@115.195.142.200] has joined #lisp 11:53:17 i find 100 characters too wide for prose. 11:54:27 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:54:56 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-206-245.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:40 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-109-64-206-139.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:56:48 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:58:24 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 11:58:30 -!- hydan [~udzinari@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:58:51 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:59:14 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-206-245.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:59:37 i find 100 characters to be too wide for anything 11:59:58 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-165-219.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:03 -!- holycow_ [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:01:39 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:01:45 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 12:02:14 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-207-199.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 12:02:21 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-57-89.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:03:42 you can have quite some characters as whitespace. plus, i prefer to limit the amount of concepts for a particular piece of code, than to limit the amount of characters in which they should be expressed. 12:07:16 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 12:10:47 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:30 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:11:42 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:11:48 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:13:29 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Quit: ...] 12:13:50 antonv [25117015@gateway/web/freenode/ip.37.17.112.21] has joined #lisp 12:14:21 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 12:18:11 hydan [~udzinari@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 12:19:35 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:21:13 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:17 -!- Joreji 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bunch of single semi-colon comments ... 14:25:20 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@lvps5-35-242-57.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has quit [Changing host] 14:25:20 insomniaSalt [~milan@fsf/member/insomniasalt] has joined #lisp 14:28:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-149.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:29:30 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:31:31 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 14:32:26 -!- bitonic [~user@93-63-184-150.ip28.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:32:40 When I worked at the Atari lab in Cambridge (1984), there were two other hackers there with completely opposing views of code size. One of them used BigFont (on the Symbolics Lisp Machine), and had a rule that a function had to fit on one screen. The other had created his own 6-point font (the smallest number of pixels that lets you recognize upper-case letters; add two more pixels for descenders, and you've got lower-case too), and his funct 14:32:55 Not sure the first one got through, so I sent a shorter one. Apologies if it was a duplicate. 14:34:58 cut of on "and his funct" 14:36:02 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@94.144.63.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:36:11 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 14:36:39 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 14:36:54 for me it was cat at ", and his func" 14:36:58 cut even 14:38:40 -!- drdo [~drdo@2a02:2498:e000:20::16f:2] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:39:14 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:16 ditto 14:40:52 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:41:01 prabuinet [~prabuinet@117.197.195.40] has joined #lisp 14:41:44 I've used 100 columns for CL for a while, but recently I've started to appreciate 79-col more. 14:42:45 I use 90 columns for wrapping text, and 100 for code. 14:42:54 ~80 is nice enough, you can put up three or four windows equally wide on one monitor 14:43:04 can anyone help me with asdf:load problem.. i've added directory in the "~/.config/common-lisp/source-register.conf", but asdf says system not found 14:43:21 80 forces excessive vertical wrapping, IMO 14:43:34 drdo [~drdo@2a02:2498:e000:20::16f:2] has joined #lisp 14:43:40 foom, on ocassions, yeah.. 14:43:51 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:44:16 specially if you have long with-something-somethingelse-doing-whatever names .. 14:44:22 yup 14:44:38 *prxq* gets along with 74 14:44:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-149.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:44:52 i bet i can use 73 14:46:01 i can use 1 14:46:06 there! 14:46:21 i'm the manliest of you all ... mines the smallest .. oh doh 14:47:40 but can you use LEAST-POSITIVE-NORMALIZED-SINGLE-FLOAT? 14:48:44 or SB-KERNEL:REDEFINITION-REPLACES-COMPILED-FUNCTION-WITH-INTERPRETED-P 14:49:03 they are aliased to the function z and x respectivley 14:49:05 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-90-225.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:49:32 unexported winner is SB-PCL::MAKE-OPTIMIZED-STRUCTURE-SETF-SLOT-VALUE-USING-CLASS-METHOD-FUNCTION 14:50:13 hehe 14:50:54 CCL beats it with CCL::VECTOR-OUTPUT-STREAM-IOBLOCK-WRITE-CHAR-WITHOUT-TRANSLATION-WHEN-LOCKED-FUNCTION 14:51:10 Oh. 14:51:32 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-165-20.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:52:06 blech, i don't like tex 14:52:09 yes, my other rule is "if it goes over 100 columns and it looks better that way, who gives a crap." 14:52:14 Why someone uses names like these? Isn't it hard to type them? 14:52:27 VECTOR-OUTPUT-STREAM-IOBLOCK is the name of a structure 14:52:28 hitecnologys: completion, we invented it in the 70 :-) 14:52:33 hitecnologys: no, you just press meta-/ 14:52:42 hitecnologys: you only type that once 14:53:11 there are some emacs modes that lets you type stuff like v-o-s-i-w-c-w-t-w-l-f and expand it to whatever.. 14:53:12 I know that I can use C-N, but anyway it's not ok that name is sooooo big. 14:53:14 hitecnologys: autocomplete mitigates the problem, and you need to look at the docs less 14:53:36 hitecnologys: why not? it is a descriptive name. 14:54:17 and comming up with a compact name for CCL::VECTOR-OUTPUT-STREAM-IOBLOCK-WRITE-CHAR-WITHOUT-TRANSLATION-WHEN-LOCKED-FUNCTION looks seriously hard. 14:54:17 zorkmoid: yeah, maybe. 14:54:52 hitecnologys: i mean, can you find a better name? 14:55:04 CamelCase would result in 15% savings 14:55:06 WRITE-CHAR-WITHOUT-TRANSLATION-WHEN-LOCKED-FUNCTION is a slot name included from other structure, so it can be used by called through another name on VECTOR-OUTPUT-STREAM-IOBLOCK 14:55:37 VOSI-write-char-w/o-translation-w-locked-fun? :-) 14:56:00 It's too bad there wasn't a convention to use something like / to separate struct-names from slot-names. 14:56:18 I've had quite a few instances where I couldn't tell where one ended and the other began. :) 14:56:19 zorkmoid: that's still long! 14:56:49 but these are internal symbols, not to be used by people 14:56:50 foom: you could use =. As in widget-with-legs=top-drawer 14:56:59 you could use -> 14:57:06 dlowe: gasp 14:57:10 I know I *could* use any number of things 14:57:11 to really confuse the C people :D 14:57:35 But it's not worth being different from the normal style for. 14:57:46 clim has one of the longest API names: CLIM:COMMAND-LINE-READ-REMAINING-ARGUMENTS-FOR-PARTIAL-COMMAND 14:59:20 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:59:34 foom: ccl uses a . 14:59:42 at least for the FFI stuff 15:00:12 some people have used / ... 15:00:14 but meh 15:01:40 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.178] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:03:22 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@student-245-229.eduroam.uu.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:03:36 nilsi [~nilsi@student-245-229.eduroam.uu.se] has joined #lisp 15:04:14 -!- bniels [~niels@p4FD6F48D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:04:41 hitecnologys: if you're using swank (via slime or slimv), use fuzzy-completion 15:05:22 on the other hand of the spectrum (short names, or even implicit), there's perl .... with lots of syntax. 15:06:01 -!- easye` [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:06:32 %$#%@$%@&$%&@ is i guess the equivialent in perl .. 15:06:37 easye` [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 15:06:50 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:07:04 stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:33 -!- nikodem [~mikey@user-46-112-91-9.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:08:10 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:101:1d35:1b65:7d3:18de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:54 segv- [~mb@dslb-094-223-006-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:26 flip214: i know about it. 15:10:37 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 15:10:56 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:58 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:22 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:12:40 zorkmoid: oh no, in perl6 they switched to using the whole Unicode continuum ... «», , etc. 15:12:51 sweet! 15:12:57 so soon they will be apl? 15:13:43 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@chello084112185050.3.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 15:13:51 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:14 fsvehla [~fsvehla@chello084112185050.3.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:18:42 -!- ogamita [~t@host.34.193.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:20:13 Y_ [~ymirr@188.115.27.139] has joined #lisp 15:20:29 -!- ludston [~patience@CPE-121-216-102-83.lnse2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:20:37 -!- Y_ is now known as Guest35247 15:20:54 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@student-245-229.eduroam.uu.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:21:46 -!- Ymir [~ymirr@188.115.37.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:21:47 -!- Guest35247 is now known as Ymir 15:23:33 benny [~user@i577A3BAB.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:31:04 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:37 Xizor [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:34:57 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-165-20.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:42 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 15:35:47 Greetings lispers 15:37:05 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:37:17 hi The_third_man 15:37:22 hi ThomasH 15:37:43 Hello prxq, how are you doing? 15:37:58 fine so far. Troubles with autocomplete :-) 15:38:04 and you? 15:38:59 Doing well. Thinking of spending today working on pet coding projects. 15:39:15 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-165-20.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:39:29 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@46.233.229.103] has joined #lisp 15:41:19 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 15:42:20 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.35.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:43:20 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:43:32 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.131] has joined #lisp 15:44:00 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 15:46:01 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 15:46:01 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 15:46:01 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 15:48:03 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Client Quit] 15:48:18 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 15:48:18 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 15:48:18 hkBst 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[~abeaumont@248.Red-79-157-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27:48 not finding in the docs, at http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/ 17:28:40 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:29:46 dim: `slime-lisp-implementations' maybe 17:33:56 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 17:34:15 indeed 17:34:25 I wonder what is the default 17:34:32 gave it 2GB, it's working good now 17:37:32 paul0_ [~paul0@187.112.66.109] has joined #lisp 17:37:44 abeaumont [~abeaumont@248.Red-79-157-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:23 ASau [~user@2.208.50.103] has joined #lisp 17:40:49 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:40:54 bitonic [~user@93-63-184-150.ip28.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:40:55 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-yphnxmkqlchhapjf] has joined #lisp 17:45:44 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:12 if I have a (defpackage #:novak) that I want to (:use) in another defpackage, how do I ensure that :novak has been loaded? if in my asdf (defsystem) I :depends-on, the (defpackage (:use)) gets hit first and causes an error. 17:50:16 dto [60fc3e0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.252.62.13] has joined #lisp 17:51:02 -!- paul0_ [~paul0@187.112.66.109] has left #lisp 17:51:26 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 17:54:53 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 17:55:13 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-81-139.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:55:47 is there a gmp lib for sbcl ? 17:56:07 pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:56:41 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:57:36 hi pnpuff :) 17:58:03 dto! :) 17:58:25 long time no see, dto 17:58:44 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 17:58:47 hello dlowe 17:59:17 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:59:18 whats up? 17:59:54 nothing special 18:00:11 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:47 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:48 yea at times i leave my pc unhooked for weeks and just check email occasionally 18:01:34 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:01:39 if i haz internet i get sucked into articles and wikipedia 18:02:06 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-165-20.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:03:34 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:03:46 normanri_ [~normanric@166.137.123.161] has joined #lisp 18:03:48 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:04:01 smazga [~acrid@2602:4b:a2d6:8f00:190b:bd5f:fc0a:fdd1] has joined #lisp 18:04:01 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:25 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:20 dto: lately I used my pc only to listen gregorian chants. (: 18:05:56 ah! cool 18:05:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-81-139.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 18:06:59 arrdem: perhaps correcting the error would be a step forward? 18:07:00 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:07:01 -!- normanri_ is now known as normanrichards 18:07:25 arrdem: oh, you mean (defpackage :the-other-package (:use :novak)). 18:07:50 arrdem: the first thing you must understand is that packages are not files, they're not loaded. They're lisp data structures. 18:08:22 arrdem: what defpackage does is mainly calling the function make-package. 18:08:59 arrdem: when we put a defpackage form in a file, the function make-package is called when we load this file, when we compile it, and when we load the compiled file. 18:09:02 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 18:09:12 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.229.103] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 18:09:32 So we're lucky, since that means we can get a package object made by make-package however we load that file, that contains this defpackage form. 18:09:39 But it means that we need to load that file. 18:10:10 So put your defpackage :novak form in a file, and add this file as dependency of the file that contains the (defpackage :other-package (:use :novak)) form. 18:10:43 -!- dto [60fc3e0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.252.62.13] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:11:19 -!- bitonic [~user@93-63-184-150.ip28.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:48 linse_ [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 18:11:54 bitonic [~user@93-63-184-150.ip28.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:12:10 -!- pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: "non confundar in aeternum"] 18:12:26 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.112.186.70] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 18:12:28 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:54 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:15:31 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.1.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:16:55 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:22 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:46 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:18:54 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176029854.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:19:11 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@host-95-199-215-30.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 18:20:56 -!- ivan4th [~user@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:30 Thra11 [~thrall@87.112.186.70] has joined #lisp 18:21:30 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@166.137.123.161] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:21:53 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-216-175-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:22:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.92.1] 18:22:16 francisl_ [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176029854.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:22:33 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:25 -!- linse_ [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 18:26:51 -!- bitonic [~user@93-63-184-150.ip28.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:27:20 pjb: Okay thanks for the advice I'll play with it some more 18:27:44 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.58.154] has quit [Quit: ...] 18:29:19 Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has joined #lisp 18:29:46 LiamH [~none@132.250.138.103] has joined #lisp 18:30:00 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:31:51 xenon_ [~xenon@109.227.4.6] has joined #lisp 18:33:32 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:19 bitonic [~user@93-63-184-150.ip28.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:37:41 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:39:12 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 18:43:05 arrdem: it's customary to put the defpackage forms in a packages.lisp file to be depended-on from all the other files, in a asdf system. 18:48:47 nikodem [~nikodem@user-164-127-251-212.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:49:15 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 18:54:36 -!- peterhil 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[~nikodem@user-164-127-251-212.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:38:08 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 19:38:47 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:40:29 hey #lisp! i need help once again. is there any way to kill a specific operation if i'm inside a programs repl via slime? 19:41:11 find the thread and kill it? 19:42:11 it's a function that cannot continue, because it calls a unix program, via sb-ext:run-program, wich in turn waits for a user entry. 19:42:32 i need to kill that specific function because it blocks stumpwm 19:43:03 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:18 dlowe: how would i do that? 19:43:46 eichelbart: try C-c C-c to drop you into the debugger 19:43:58 then pick the appropriate restart 19:44:10 in slime? 19:44:33 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:45:02 yeah 19:45:06 on the slime repl 19:45:17 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:45:24 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:45:42 i didn't call the function from slime, but through stumpwm's eval function 19:45:45 eichelbart: (ql:quickload :bordeaux-theads) (map nil 'print (bt:all-threads)) and probably: (bt:destroy-thread (first (bt:all-threads))) 19:46:02 you could kill the unix program,. 19:46:34 oic 19:46:40 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:46:46 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:46:55 you don't run a swank server in stumpwm? 19:47:01 seems like a natural fit 19:48:12 dlowe: id do run that swank server. i'm currently connected to it via slime 19:49:07 dlowe: does that help? 19:49:16 running sbcl? 19:49:29 pjb: "bordeaux-threads" not found ... 19:49:32 sbcl 19:49:42 (sb-thread::list-all-threads) 19:50:06 (sb-thread:destroy-thread (nth x (sb-thread:list-all-threads))) 19:50:28 ok, let's see 19:50:33 that'll kill your wm of course 19:50:43 why can't you kill the unix program? 19:50:49 (ql:quickload :bordeaux-threads) 19:51:03 eichelbart: (ql:quickload :bordeaux-threads) ; of course. 19:51:25 dlowe: that's a very iteresting question. i haven't really thought about that before... 19:52:23 dlowe: i think that did it. 19:53:01 dlowe: and once again you saved my day! ;-) 19:55:10 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 19:56:25 rwiker [~rwiker@32.80-202-198.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:57:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-149.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:58:14 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 19:59:32 pkhuong thought of it first :p 20:00:33 pkhuong: thanks man! 20:00:40 mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.20] has joined #lisp 20:00:40 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.20] has quit [Changing host] 20:00:40 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:01:03 i don't know why i didn't think of it, i'm not that new to unix... 20:01:34 eichelbart: mind frames. You didn't use the right word. You said "operation" instead of "process". 20:01:50 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:03:02 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:03:55 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.80] has joined #lisp 20:08:33 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 20:10:02 I'm using cl-mysql to export data and it looks like even with using the next-row API, which looks like it would be streaming, it's loading all the dataset in memory 20:10:19 pjb: thanks for the advice I'm sure my codebase isn't to standard but it's all working now 20:10:27 -!- smazga [~acrid@2602:4b:a2d6:8f00:190b:bd5f:fc0a:fdd1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:10:28 is there something I can do as the user of that CFFI lib, or would I need to use another lib that you know knows how to stream the data? 20:10:33 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:48 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:00 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:13:07 maybe there is a parameter set the number of rows fetched at a atime? 20:13:11 dim: well, you can fire up an editor and try to figure out the reason for that, and fix it. Or did I misunderstand the question? 20:13:12 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:13:49 -!- prip_ [~foo@host216-190-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:15:07 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:30 you're right that it's an approach 20:15:46 what mysql client lib are you typically using? 20:17:07 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has quit [Quit: Night folks. Got to go to bed] 20:18:56 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-132-13.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:25 Joreji [~thomas@84-182.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:20:40 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.240.179.197] has joined #lisp 20:20:45 Why do you see extensive use of LABELS in old code or code written by old-timers? 20:21:22 is there a punchline? 20:21:39 because old people are racist 20:22:21 Funny adelgado, unfortunately, it was a legitimate question. 20:22:46 i see plenty of labels in new code... i think... 20:24:29 I mean like (labels ((foo ...)) (foo ...)) 20:24:39 With huge bodies for the labels 20:24:49 prip_ [~foo@host213-126-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:24:50 I've seen a similar pattern in some Scheme code. 20:26:08 those aren't labels 20:26:48 katspaugh [~katspaugh@81.200.28.65] has joined #lisp 20:27:08 -!- rjmt___ [~uid1@37.157.33.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:27:43 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:28:28 ? or at least not labels as used in lower-level languages 20:29:14 Hi! I'm trying to install teepeedee2 in Clozure CL and gives me this error: "Error: Restart CONTINUE is not active". It seems like it's trying to continue where it had stopped previously. How to reset the environment so that it would start again anew? 20:30:29 rwiker: thomash is clearly talking about the operator "labels", not gotos. 20:31:07 impomatic [~digital_w@87.114.138.192] has joined #lisp 20:31:07 SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:14 What Bike typed. 20:31:53 anyway, that pattern makes sense to me and i thought it was common and idiomatic. is it not? 20:32:17 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 20:32:49 ThomasH: sometimes it is a way to share state among a bunch of functions that belong together. 20:33:03 Bike: It's common, maybe more common than I realized. 20:33:04 well, it's the common lisp mechanism fro creating local functions that can be called recursively (or that can call each other) 20:33:06 *prxq* sometimes writes code like that 20:33:29 rwiker: that's not a problem without labels 20:33:37 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.80.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:34:10 prxq: I use it that way as well for expendency. But, if the body gets too large, I generally try to encapsulate the data better and use separate functions/methods. 20:34:14 what other mechanism would you use instead of labels? 20:34:18 ThomasH: like, i'd rather write (defun fac (n) (labels ((aux (n acc) (if (zerop n) acc (aux (1- n) (* n acc))))) (aux n 1))) then use an optional parameter for fac itself, if i was using that definition for factorial for some reason. 20:34:36 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 20:35:22 rwiker: you are right in that it is the best for local functions. You could use closures closing over variables, and setting the variables then. 20:36:26 yes, completely auxiliary functions can be put nicely into labels. It's usually easy to refactor if they end up being needed somewhere else. 20:36:49 Bike: That's a good example. I'm not saying it doesn't have it's place. 20:39:05 -!- katspaugh [~katspaugh@81.200.28.65] has left #lisp 20:40:01 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:40:01 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-25-206-180.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:30 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 20:41:50 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-200-245.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:41:52 I think that the two main reason for using labels is to avoid polluting the namespace (package), and also to give the compiler a chance for more aggressive optimisation 20:41:58 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:42:14 names of inner functions will still be interned... 20:42:21 jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-66-149.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:42:58 *prxq* finds a 155-line function with four labels in current code. 20:43:18 more aggressive opts is definitively a reason 20:44:41 Bike: interning is no problem. Conceptually, all the symbols always exist. 20:45:08 pjb: yeah, but rwiker mentioned "polluting" the package. 20:45:10 Mostly, it allows local functions to use local variables, ie. to be closures. 20:45:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-149.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:45:29 Bike: well you'd not believe what you can find inside the packages. As long as it's not exported 20:49:50 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:50:18 Is it actually specified that names of labels and flets (and local variable bindings) need to be interned? I see no reason that they should be present in compiled code. 20:50:32 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.80.186] has joined #lisp 20:50:38 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.80.186] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:51:07 they'll be interned during reading, obviously. 20:51:26 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.80.186] has joined #lisp 20:51:32 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.80.186] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:51:53 if you load a fasl of them then no, don't think those symbols would be created by most imlementations. 20:52:27 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-66-149.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:52:30 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.80.186] has joined #lisp 20:52:58 -!- agumonkey [~agu@240.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:52:59 ThomasH: wait till you see code full with rplaca/rplacd and heavy use of symbol-plists 20:53:37 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@166.137.123.161] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53:40 rplacd is my favorite 20:53:42 or try to macroexpand a loop form 20:53:53 and symbol plists are useful! 20:54:20 -!- nikodem [~nikodem@user-164-127-251-212.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:55:51 rwiker: the compiler works on a list. All symbols in it have already been interned by the time the compiler sees it. 20:56:39 rwiker: that's pretty unique. The language is not primarily defined on text. 20:56:40 right. but if you compile to a file, and then load that file into a different image, you may not see those symbols 20:57:23 rwiker: well, ok, right. :-) 20:57:27 felideon: symbol-plists are a dead give-away. Every once in a while, I'll get it in my head that I should be using the plist, then realize that it's just a bad idea. 20:57:39 -!- elixey [~eilyx@gateway/tor-sasl/eilyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:58:08 agumonkey [~agu@240.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:35 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 20:58:36 -!- clone_of_saturn [~visitant@c-75-72-240-113.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:59:25 my favorite misfeature is tagbody. In CL, even goto is more useable than in other languages. 20:59:45 true 20:59:46 reckler [~reckler@ppp118-208-26-217.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:18 and you'll probably find tagbody inmacroexpansions of loop, do, dolist, ... 21:00:41 -!- reckler [~reckler@ppp118-208-26-217.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:01:20 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:34 ? which shows quite clearly that goto is an indispensable feature, even of lisp :-) 21:04:27 tag body is not a misfeature! 21:04:35 prxq: I disagree. it's mostly useless 21:04:40 it is useful for state machines :D 21:05:37 if there's no tagbody in the language, you end up implementing it, inefficiently, by other means 21:05:47 thephoeron [~thephoero@CPE0024369f3a03-CM00194792a698.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:05:56 fe[nl]ix: what guaqua says 21:05:57 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:09 the CL tagbody is way too limited 21:07:18 it only recognizes toplevel tags 21:07:46 i.e. I can't have macro expansions contain tags 21:07:57 (tagbody (go :foo) (let ((a 3)) (print "NAY") :foo (print "YAY"))) won't work 21:08:09 bloody annoying 21:08:41 ebobby [~fms@189.170.16.14] has joined #lisp 21:09:48 fe[nl]ix: what would you want it to do with (tagbody (go :foo) (let ((a (huge-calculation))) :foo (print "foo"))) ? 21:10:04 skip inti of a? 21:10:15 s/inti/init/ 21:10:18 yes 21:10:37 same as in C 21:10:38 but a shoudl be available to setf 21:10:50 ok 21:11:11 if you jump there and read a then it will contain some tack garbage 21:11:14 I'm fine with that 21:11:19 *stack 21:12:33 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 21:12:44 hm. That's ok in C, but doesn't make sense in CL. 21:13:16 lukas_ [~lukas@194.228.13.27] has joined #lisp 21:13:17 would mess up the GC, I think 21:13:17 not true 21:13:36 that's not ok in C anymore either 21:13:41 try compiling a function with speed 3 and safety 0, declare its argument as float then pass a string 21:14:00 low-level unsafe stuff is allowed 21:14:06 fe[nl]ix: but then you are asking for trouble, and that's what you get. 21:14:24 prxq: I'm not, if done properly 21:14:35 that is, if I'm careful 21:14:50 ebobby: since when ? 21:15:04 well, yes. That's C, then. To play with live wires. 21:15:29 sometimes that's useful 21:15:31 I just read an article about a security bug in FreeBSD/MacOSX that was caused because srand was using an unitialized variable (undefined) to increase entropy, compilers have become more aggresive when optimizing and LLVM optimized that by removing the whole operation 21:16:16 the thing is, when you depend on undefined behavior, it will come back and bite you, maybe not today, but tomorrow. 21:16:26 is there a standard function to garbage collect? 21:16:36 fe[nl]ix: what about (tabgody (fo :foo) (dotimes (i 5) :foo (print i))) ? 21:16:44 dim: nope. 21:17:08 dim: no, but most impls let you call the GC in some way. 21:17:13 1,153,790,480 bytes for 7,483,077 simple-character-string objects. 21:17:16 sbcl here 21:17:28 sb-ext:gc 21:17:29 dim: (sb-ext:gc :full t) 21:17:35 thx 21:17:57 prxq: that's not good 21:18:28 fe[nl]ix: but dotimes could be a instead an user-written macro 21:18:30 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-81-139.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:42 it skips the binding of the loop counter 21:18:51 prxq: that's fine 21:19:14 I'd like to be allowed to do that and suffer the consequences if I don't do it right 21:19:16 and crashes when comparing to 5 21:19:48 I should maybe force the gc call once every million rows 21:20:35 that probably should not be necessary?it should be gc'd automatically 21:20:37 right now CL makes it too complicated to write tagbody-based state machines, and since tail-call merging is not guaranteed I can't do it the Scheme-way either 21:20:50 fe[nl]ix: i see 21:21:20 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has left #lisp 21:21:43 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5AF50613.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:05 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:22:34 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:22:43 fe[nl]ix: but tail-call merging is only usefull when jumping out, no? 21:22:46 hmmm? there is a writeup for an issue related to macroexpansion and tagbody in the clhs? 21:22:52 Total bytes allocated = 2144214576 Dynamic-space-size bytes = 2147483648 GC control variables: *GC-INHIBIT* = true *GC-PENDING* = in progress *STOP-FOR-GC-PENDING* = false 21:23:20 is that happening in stable versions too? the one in squeeze was so old that I took a git commit, I maybe should have refrained? 21:23:23 rwiker: yeah, about whether macros can expand to tags, iirc. 21:23:26 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5AF5045B.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:23:36 Anyone have a performant way of writing from an ffi pointer to a lisp stream? Right now I'm copying it into a (unsigned-byte 8) vector but that is CPU bound 21:23:49 -!- _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 21:24:02 dim: what is happening, in your opinion? 21:24:55 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:57 I don't know enough of CL or SBCL's GC to form an opinion 21:25:01 does sb-ext:gc actually free up any space? 21:25:06 prxq: "jumping out" ? 21:25:18 jasom: FFI pointer to what ? 21:25:32 fe[nl]ix: bytes that I want to write to a stream 21:25:33 fe[nl]ix: (tabgody :foo (let ((a 1)) (go :foo))) 21:25:47 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7546d8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:28 rwiker: i think so. Well, at least it looks that way to top 21:26:40 unix top command, I mean 21:26:42 prxq: I still don't understand the question 21:26:52 rwiker: you could use room to check. 21:27:12 sorry, I meant in the image that dim is working with :-) 21:27:40 iow, does room report any different values before and after gc 21:27:42 tail-call merging is useful if you want to implement a state machine using mutually-recursive (local) functions 21:28:01 fe[nl]ix: you can always do trampoline based state-machines (or do what I do and use tail-call based state-machines which works on all the lisps I use) 21:28:03 rwiker: oh yes 21:28:20 jasom: who allocates the foreign memory ? 21:28:26 fe[nl]ix: I do 21:28:40 jasom: then use static-vectors 21:29:22 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:29:26 that library allows you to allocate an (unsigned-byte 8) array that you can easily use for FFI stuff because it won't get moved by the GC 21:30:05 slyrus [~chatzilla@70-90-161-58-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:05 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 21:31:17 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 21:31:29 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.211] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 21:32:00 fe[nl]ix: is there documentation for that, or do I just have to look at all the docstrings? 21:32:48 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@32.80-202-198.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:33:05 jasom: no docs yet. read src/impl-clozure.lisp 21:33:08 that's very short 21:34:03 you have make-static-vector, static-vector-pointer, free-static-vector, with-static-vector 21:34:39 nice 21:34:43 just what I wanted, thanks! 21:35:47 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@70-90-161-58-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:39:23 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.80.186] has left #lisp 21:39:27 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 21:39:48 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:25 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abom29.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:42:50 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abot143.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:43:00 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abom29.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 21:44:23 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 21:44:53 jasom: I'd like to know if it passes all tests on your machine 21:45:16 AeroNotix [~xeno@abom29.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:45:36 fe[nl]ix: well, and you can emulate that by jumping to tags on the top tagbody 21:45:55 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 21:46:23 elixey [~eilyx@gateway/tor-sasl/eilyx] has joined #lisp 21:46:46 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:52 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:47:03 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:47:03 prxq: yes but it forces me to write the code generator so that all tags are at the toplevel of the main tagbody 21:48:15 jasom: (asdf:test-system :static-vectors) 21:49:13 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-149.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:51:38 -!- Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:52:30 Component :STATIC-VECTORS-TEST not found, required by 21:52:36 fe[nl]ix: if you are going to generate a bunch of functions to stick into some environment then it doesn't sound like that much of a difference to me. But I don't know what you are doing exactly 21:53:08 jasom: it's in test/ 21:53:16 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:01 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:57:38 Hi! I have a function that loops all expression in a list. This works fine. But sometimes the lists are just a dotted list, like (car . car). Is there a way to convert that one to an ordinary list like '(car car)? 21:57:59 In common lisp 21:58:25 fe[nl]ix: passes on both sbcl and ccl on my machine 21:58:27 jasom: bulk copying to a lisp array and write-sequence might be simpler, if cffi has some function for the first step. 21:59:32 pkhuong: static-vectors are working fine right now. It took me less than 5 minutes to make the change 21:59:49 pkhuong: if the foreign memory is allocated on the lisp side, using static-vectors avoids the copy 22:00:17 nilsi: check the nature of the cdr of (last list), alter it if necessary, i s'pose 22:00:39 fe[nl]ix: I'm actually using iolib.syscall to open a file. I need to dump the contents of a file to a lisp stream, but the file-name might not be a valid lisp file-name 22:02:32 after the performance of my first version, I considered just making a symlink to a valid path, but this is probably easier. 22:03:39 the memory exhaustion problem only occurs when using lparallel and "streaming" from MySQL to PostgreSQL directly within 2 workers using a lparallel.queue instance 22:03:50 maybe the problem is the memory management of that queue, too 22:04:12 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 22:04:16 what other resources would you use to manage workers and send data in between them? 22:04:18 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:04:22 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.1] has joined #lisp 22:04:30 jasom: you can wrap a file descriptor in an standard stream 22:04:35 Bike: Thanks will try something like that 22:04:48 jasom: using sb-sys:make-fd-stream 22:06:01 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: dead] 22:06:01 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:18 -!- xenon_ [~xenon@109.227.4.6] has quit [Quit: xenon_] 22:06:25 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:23 -!- SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:05 mkozjak [~mkozjak@unaffiliated/mkozjak] has joined #lisp 22:09:14 hi 22:10:08 slyrus [~chatzilla@70-90-161-58-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:25 maybe a little awkward question, but are there any telnet clients for any implementation of lisp you've ever acrossed? 22:12:02 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:15:56 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 22:16:24 bitonic` [~user@ppp-34-176.25-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 22:17:20 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:21 mkozjak: not as far as I know 22:17:24 only a telnet server 22:17:27 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:17:38 yeah... 22:17:43 cltelnetd 22:18:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-149.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:18:31 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:20:29 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@70-90-161-58-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:21:52 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:17 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 22:22:43 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:23:25 slyrus [~chatzilla@70-90-161-58-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:04 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 22:25:06 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75e9dd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:25:50 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:10 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:26 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:29:59 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.129.72.61] has joined #lisp 22:32:57 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:23 mkozjak: there's telnetlib, available from quicklisp. works for me (for automated router management) 22:40:24 cool :) 22:41:29 mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-swin14-2-0-cust274.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:42:36 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:54 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:43:45 seems like there's one for common lisp, too 22:45:43 snearch [~snearch@f053003236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:47:54 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:06 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:48:10 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@70-90-161-58-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:48:58 antgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-126-155.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 22:49:50 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:50:32 -!- drdo [~drdo@2a02:2498:e000:20::16f:2] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:52:10 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:04 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 23:00:42 1st 23:00:49 At least here 23:03:51 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:04:04 francisl_ [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176029854.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:04:08 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:06:04 brandonz [~brandon@74-95-6-5-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:46 mkozjak: quicklisp is a common lisp distribution management system written in common lisp. for common lisp, by a common lisper ... 23:07:18 mkozjak: if you are not yet using it, you probably should! : http://www.quicklisp.org/ 23:09:46 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:25 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-017-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:10:48 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m83-190-167-197.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 23:11:40 axion1 [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:11:41 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:12:36 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:14:50 -!- axion1 [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15:03 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:02 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:16:06 -!- worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:17:28 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.7.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:18:48 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:19:30 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.4] has joined #lisp 23:21:19 mkozjak: I've been implementing a telnet protocol in CL. 23:21:48 -!- stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:22:02 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:17 -!- sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:22:29 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 23:22:29 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 23:23:19 mkozjak: https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/telnet 23:23:42 jamall [~jamall@164.111.134.201] has joined #lisp 23:23:58 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:24:17 It still needs work, but it's designed to be more complete than the alternatives. 23:24:38 Unfortunately, I won't have time to work on it before 6-12 months 23:24:59 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:40 breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 23:31:52 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-223-006-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 23:32:07 -!- francisl_ [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176029854.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:32:20 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176029854.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:33:00 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[~user@2.208.50.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:44:33 has anyone tried getting clisp to work in a browser with emscripten? 23:46:51 normanrichards [~normanric@166.137.123.161] has joined #lisp 23:46:57 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.240.179.197] has joined #lisp 23:49:54 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:50:03 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-209-2-233-46.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:50:05 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:53:11 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 23:54:04 slyrus [~chatzilla@70-90-161-58-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:55 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 23:57:25 -!- brandonz [~brandon@74-95-6-5-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:58:30 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