00:00:45 nikodem [~mikey@user-109-243-194-207.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 00:01:47 meiji11 [~Anarcho@host191-119.vpn.ubc.ca] has joined #lisp 00:06:34 -!- coleman- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (Session timeout)] 00:06:57 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:23 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@75-252-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:16:12 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8D8A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:16:44 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 00:20:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8D8A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:21:21 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:23:54 -!- gf3 is now known as gf3|poopin 00:23:58 -!- gf3|poopin is now known as gf3|eatin 00:24:03 -!- gf3|eatin is now known as gf3|readin 00:24:06 -!- gf3|readin is now known as gf3 00:24:21 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.211.205.227] has joined #lisp 00:29:41 omouse [~user@24.246.63.243] has joined #lisp 00:29:56 -!- omouse [~user@24.246.63.243] has left #lisp 00:31:23 leoc [~leoc.git@p57B9AA39.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:38 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 00:34:35 ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:58 patrick_ [~patrick@2.171.168.159] has joined #lisp 00:40:38 killsto [~killsto@ip70-179-169-110.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:40 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:43:45 -!- leoc [~leoc.git@p57B9AA39.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:47:54 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:54:55 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:55:46 -!- nikodem [~mikey@user-109-243-194-207.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:57:55 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-130-12.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:02:31 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:23 ASau [~user@46.115.124.122] has joined #lisp 01:07:59 bitonic [~user@ppp-86-30.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 01:09:01 -!- agumonkey [~agu@28.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:10:55 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 01:15:00 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:20:55 -!- patrick_ [~patrick@2.171.168.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:21:43 neuroelec [~neuroelec@c-24-17-240-222.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:23 omouse [~user@24.246.63.243] has joined #lisp 01:22:52 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:22:57 postmodern question: how do I insert boolean values into using (query (:insert-into .... 'column BOOLEAN-VALUE))? I'm trying to pass NIL and it complains. 01:23:09 is there a 'false value? I know :null won't work of course. 01:25:37 -!- neuroelec [~neuroelec@c-24-17-240-222.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:26:38 -!- meiji11 [~Anarcho@host191-119.vpn.ubc.ca] has quit [] 01:27:25 i really hate how pg writes code sometimes that produces unavoidable style warnings 01:27:54 merlin_ [~merlin@212.91.105.170] has joined #lisp 01:28:01 i think his style is usually considered to be kind of off. 01:28:18 yeah, it's rather esoteric at times 01:28:35 ... 01:28:44 he'll spend 90% of one chapter on simple functions and then the rest of will veer off into shit he has not even mentioned 01:29:08 Fiora: ? 01:29:17 I'm sorry I read that as a pun ~_~ 01:29:24 since pg is known for programming in esoteric languages 01:29:45 ISF [~ivan@187.106.39.154] has joined #lisp 01:29:56 I completely disagree, lisp is hardly esoteric 01:30:06 he made his own language though, right? arc or something 01:30:16 bazed on pltscheme 01:30:19 based* 01:30:26 LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-130-12.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:26 plt scheme is now racket also 01:30:32 yeah, but it's just a Scheme. It's not interesting or weird really, just unused. 01:30:41 and arc is nowhere close to finished, and he never develops it 01:30:50 he designs the SHIT out of it, but rarely develops 01:30:53 he still runs websites on it for some reason? 01:31:02 it runs hn 01:31:15 -!- killsto [~killsto@ip70-179-169-110.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:33:01 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:35:13 mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-swin14-2-0-cust274.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 01:42:18 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:18 -!- segmond__ [~segmond@adsl-99-103-189-5.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:45:05 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-86-30.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:48:31 killsto [~killsto@ip70-179-169-110.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:21 segmond__ [~segmond@99.150.142.200] has joined #lisp 01:58:13 cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-204-241.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 02:02:08 Ymir [~ymirr@188.115.11.62] has joined #lisp 02:02:40 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03:41 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A191E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:04:07 -!- Guest83466 [~green@dsl-173-206-76-171.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:05:12 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.215.51] has joined #lisp 02:05:16 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:07:08 green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-76-171.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 02:11:47 -!- green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-76-171.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:12:54 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 02:14:44 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:44 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:14:44 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 02:19:35 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:20:00 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abor71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 02:24:19 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 02:25:52 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 02:29:43 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-swin14-2-0-cust274.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:32:16 ASau` [~user@46.115.121.150] has joined #lisp 02:35:14 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.124.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:36:26 -!- BountyX [~andrew@76.14.65.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:36:26 -!- pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:36:58 pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:55 realpat [~pat@pool-71-104-156-221.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:43 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 02:43:13 I would like to my hunchentoot code to respond to PUT requests 02:43:24 is there an example of this somewhere that I may reference? 02:45:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@72-228.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:48:01 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.211.205.227] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 02:49:45 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 02:49:52 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 02:52:00 -!- merlin_ [~merlin@212.91.105.170] has quit [Quit: merlin_] 02:52:37 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:46 -!- linse [~marioooh@18.38.7.220] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 02:54:33 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 02:55:31 linse [~marioooh@18.38.7.220] has joined #lisp 02:57:20 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:31 eliyak [~eliyak@c-24-12-108-50.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:31 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@c-24-12-108-50.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:58:31 eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has joined #lisp 03:01:08 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:41 have you guys seen shen? 03:03:48 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:07:05 -!- nightfly [~sage@205.185.122.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:08:47 yes. 03:08:59 what do you think? 03:09:02 realpat: google seems to imply it would be kind of tricky 03:09:30 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:13:35 Thra11 [~thrall@54.110.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:11 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@124.229.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:15:46 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:21:27 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:41 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@54.110.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:21:44 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:27:22 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.43.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:28:00 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 03:32:03 -!- dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:36:19 Thra11 [~thrall@54.110.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:44 dan64 [~dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 03:38:34 -!- hydan [~udzinari@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:48:27 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:52:58 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:18 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:55:57 -!- killsto [~killsto@ip70-179-169-110.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:56:29 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 03:59:09 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:59:36 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:59 ludston [~patience@CPE-121-216-102-83.lnse2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:01:07 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@54.110.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:03:46 <_schulte_> how does (or can?) one export a reader macro from a package? 04:04:06 -!- benny [~user@i577A7E19.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:04:28 packages only have symbols. you could export a symbol naming a function to enable the macro. or use named-readtables. 04:05:06 <_schulte_> Bike: thanks, I'll look into named-readtables and fall back to simply exporting a function to turn them on 04:09:27 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [] 04:10:18 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-130-12.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:13:32 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:15:16 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-78-76-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:15:46 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:16:18 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:16:52 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:16:55 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:18:40 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:18:46 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:20 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:12 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 04:28:28 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-162-165-225.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:29:47 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.249.53] has joined #lisp 04:32:03 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:34:12 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:25 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:54 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:36:07 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:03 In lisp, do you all choose brevity over readability or vice versa? or a balance between them both? 04:37:25 brevity-enabled-p 04:37:47 zajn: Whatever you think won't hurt you as much later. 04:38:03 zajn: personally, I prefer brevity through readable abstraction. 04:38:40 zajn: some folks seem to like approaching brevity by cutting down character count on symbols. 04:38:58 ...I am not a fan of these folks. 04:39:12 Would too much abstraction be damaging? 04:40:39 zajn: Where have you run into too much abstraction? 04:40:42 Depends on how/when you do it. 04:41:02 <|3b|> if it is 'too much', it is too much 04:41:09 Premature abstraction is a bigger problem than lots of abstraction anyway :( 04:41:21 <|3b|> 'too much' is as bad as 'not enough' 04:42:20 Yeah, that makes sense. I just don't watch to abstract wrongly if that makes any sense. 04:42:23 yeah 04:43:49 <|3b|> yeah, 'bad abstraction' is probably worse than too much or not enough 04:46:43 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.249.53] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 04:48:05 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:45 I'd rather have code that I can read, because that way other people can read it easier. when I have to take over someone elses code, I would hope they would do the same 04:55:21 that being said, I dont find lisp that unreadable like most people do, between indentation and rainbow-parens, it's extremely easy to keep up 04:57:48 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-162-165-225.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 05:02:58 nightfly [~sage@sagenite.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:11 -!- Ymir [~ymirr@188.115.11.62] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 05:13:57 jeti [~user@p548EB8E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:02 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:22:12 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 05:22:49 realpat: you need to write your own handler possibly? 05:26:48 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:27:32 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:28:50 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 05:30:22 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:31:24 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:32:07 -!- nightfly [~sage@sagenite.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:33:56 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:43:17 sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.43.84] has joined #lisp 05:51:22 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:06 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:07 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:54:41 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 05:57:05 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.246.235] has joined #lisp 06:10:21 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has quit [Quit: That's it, I quit!] 06:22:24 -!- sc00fy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:22:31 azkane [~ahm@187.143.94.241] has joined #lisp 06:26:51 tps_ [~tps_@hoasb-50dd08-36.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 06:27:15 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-124.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:32:21 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 06:32:42 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:08 -!- stopbit [~stopbit@c-68-50-168-116.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:36:56 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:13 stopbit [~stopbit@c-68-50-168-116.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:41 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:41:02 *stassats* tries to figure out up to which versions to support older impplementations 06:41:08 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.184.251] has joined #lisp 06:41:22 -!- ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:41:23 the one in debian stable seems like a reasonable idea 06:42:19 Hello everyone. 06:42:33 ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:34 that's in relation to slime, if people can afford to update slime, they can afford to update sbcl too 06:43:21 lest we drown in compatibility shims 06:44:15 looks like slime still supports sbcl 0.9 06:44:55 anybody using SBCL older than 1.0.40, raise their hands! 06:45:04 -!- linse [~marioooh@18.38.7.220] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 06:45:12 I'm in trouble. I have two different macroses but they look the same... and I really don't know how to generalize them in one macros. Can I ask for your help, guys? 06:45:20 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.184.251] has quit [Client Quit] 06:45:28 you can, but you need first to paste them 06:45:45 Ok, wait a second. 06:48:30 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:48:40 Here it is: http://paste.lisp.org/display/134756 06:49:20 I tried to use sublis but I need loop to work while compilation and that's the problem. 06:49:58 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 06:49:58 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 06:49:58 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 06:50:07 well, those are short macros, i'd leave them as they are now 06:50:45 Ok, thanks. 06:51:44 instead of (loop for link in links do (first link) (second link)) you can do (loop for (url title) in links do url title) 06:52:09 But anyway, is there a way to write more general macros in this situation? 06:52:30 what html generation solution are you using? does it require you to write macros? 06:52:40 those macros seem like they could be functions 06:52:50 I'm using sexml. 06:53:40 I know they could be functions, but functions will be called at runtime each page load so that's not a solution. 06:54:44 so, your links are static? 06:54:55 Yep. 06:55:17 But page content are not. 06:56:30 well, you still can make them functions and use macros to make them evaluate only once 06:56:54 Oh, that's a good idea! 06:56:59 Let's try it. 06:59:18 -!- pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 07:02:38 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:02:49 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:03:09 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:04:33 hitecnologys: but generating it at run-time will probably be the least of your concerns 07:04:40 so that's just a premature optimization 07:06:54 But it if it will be called at runtime it will take lot's of resources to generate pages every time I open the site, won't it? 07:07:29 have you measured that? 07:07:50 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 07:07:55 stassats`: actually, nope. =( 07:08:34 it will take some resource, that's for sure, but the question is, is it enough to worry about? 07:08:51 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:09:09 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.43.84] has left #lisp 07:09:30 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h94-75-54-226.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 07:10:31 _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 07:10:46 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:11:15 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:11:27 or rather, "worry about it now" 07:11:45 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has joined #lisp 07:12:12 Okay, let's try making functions that will be evaluated at compilation time first and then I'll try to evaluate them at runtime. 07:12:36 should be the other way around 07:16:42 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:17:50 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:17 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:18:27 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:18:27 -!- sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:23:34 mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 07:23:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 07:23:34 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:23:39 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 07:26:32 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:46 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:29:36 BountyX [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has joined #lisp 07:29:36 pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has joined #lisp 07:29:56 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 07:31:10 -!- BountyX [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:31:11 -!- pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:31:26 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:31:32 BountyX [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has joined #lisp 07:31:32 -!- realpat [~pat@pool-71-104-156-221.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:31:37 pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has joined #lisp 07:31:48 sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 07:31:49 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:32:07 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 07:34:30 segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-103-188-236.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-124.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:37:50 -!- segmond__ [~segmond@99.150.142.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:37:57 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:39:01 Aw, I hate and love macroses at the same time. They are very powerful and very hard to use tool. 07:39:50 segmond__ [~segmond@adsl-108-73-164-249.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:57 -!- segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-103-188-236.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:48:24 precioussss macros 07:48:42 it's hard to know when they're the appropriate tool (: 07:49:05 hitecnologys: have you seen Paradigms Of AI Programming? It has a few handy heuristics for when to use them (: 07:49:43 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.184.251] has joined #lisp 07:49:44 and for how to use them, too (: 07:50:46 antifuchs: yes, I'm reading it's now. 07:50:57 sweet, hope you enjoy it 9: 07:51:50 antifuchs: yeah, it's cool book. 07:57:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-124.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:59:17 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 08:00:57 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:01:42 -!- am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:03:18 -!- tps_ [~tps_@hoasb-50dd08-36.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: tps_] 08:05:00 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 08:05:53 veer [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:16 -!- veer is now known as Guest29713 08:07:14 -!- Guest29713 [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:08:02 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[~am0c@175.252.168.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:25:47 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 09:27:08 -!- omouse [~user@24.246.63.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:29:30 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 09:33:30 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:36:58 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:37:17 ineiros [~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org] has joined #lisp 09:38:55 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053015172.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:41:07 francogrex [~user@109.134.194.92] has joined #lisp 09:41:52 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has joined #lisp 09:44:20 why are the VOPs undocumented in sbcl? 09:45:21 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.129] has joined #lisp 09:47:42 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.182.27] has joined #lisp 09:49:23 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.194.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:51:36 francogrex: because the Michelangelo's sculptures are even without documentation! (: 09:54:14 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:54:31 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:38 ineiros [~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org] has joined #lisp 09:55:46 grrr hmmm 09:56:34 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:58:47 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 10:00:32 francogrex: without user's guide , if you prefer. 10:04:27 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 10:07:06 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 10:08:23 leoc [~leoc.git@p57B9AA39.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:33 bitonic [~user@ppp-86-30.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 10:09:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:13:15 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 10:13:42 francogrex: you have a unique opportunity to rectify this problem 10:16:23 -!- shifty` [~user@114-198-38-230.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:16:26 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:19:00 stassats: don't you sleep? You're always awake 10:19:12 *francogrex* thinks stassats is robot 10:19:54 it's full daylight out there 10:21:02 but that's a cheap way to talk yourself out of documenting SBCL! 10:22:38 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 10:23:07 francogrex: you should stop talking and start writing the manual that you need. :) 10:24:20 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF89F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:26:10 kilon_alios [~kilon@77.49.254.38.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 10:26:34 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:26:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.248.4] has joined #lisp 10:26:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.248.4] has quit [Changing host] 10:26:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:27:44 Saturn_ [~rose@111.59.138.201] has joined #lisp 10:30:13 przl_ [~przlrkt@p54BF89F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:32:39 zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 10:38:04 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003e8e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:00 rmathews [~roshan@122.164.35.204] has joined #lisp 10:40:50 hydan [~udzinari@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:42:50 zolk3ri1 [~Zol1ka@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:42:53 agumonkey [~agu@28.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:51 -!- zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:57:46 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.184.251] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 10:58:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:04:23 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@p54BF89F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:05:05 -!- jeti [~user@p548EB8E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:06:31 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 11:08:13 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.184.251] has joined #lisp 11:08:56 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 11:10:47 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 11:13:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.123.192] has joined #lisp 11:13:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.123.192] has quit [Changing host] 11:13:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:13:27 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.182.27] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:23:39 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.194.92] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24:16 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:24:51 -!- reckler [~reckler@ppp118-208-135-29.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:25:14 ineiros [~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org] has joined #lisp 11:25:40 jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-78-124.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:28:38 invariant [~invariant@unaffiliated/invariant] has joined #lisp 11:28:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-124.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:28:59 Why does this stack overflow in CLISP? (defun factorial (n) (defun f (acc n) (if (= n 1) acc (f (* n acc) (- n 1)))) (f 1 n)) 11:29:27 Or is trying to program Lisp like it is Scheme just a terrible idea? 11:30:31 (compile 'factorial) 11:30:44 sbcl has no problems with it. 11:30:53 sbcl also seems quite fast. 11:30:58 green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-19-106.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 11:31:06 invariant: cl makes no guarantee that tail recursive calls will be optimized away 11:31:20 invariant: and sbcl is fast indeed 11:31:29 invariant, also, you shouldn't use defun for inner function definitions in CL 11:31:32 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:31:38 invariant, use labels 11:31:38 I tried the same in ghci, and its bytecode evaluator was a lot slower. 11:31:44 invariant: so for general iteration, do not use recursion. 11:31:47 ineiros [~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org] has joined #lisp 11:32:06 Are there any external tools that eliminate tailcalls? 11:32:19 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:32:21 That is, in the case one is interested in portability. 11:32:44 there is, "you" 11:33:03 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.182.27] has joined #lisp 11:33:12 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 11:33:14 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:33:47 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 11:36:50 -!- Saturn_ [~rose@111.59.138.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:37:46 ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.232] has joined #lisp 11:41:53 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:42:15 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:42:33 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:43:32 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003e8e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:55:58 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon 11:55:58 -!- kilon [~kilon@77.49.254.38.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Changing host] 11:55:59 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 11:56:47 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.92.1] 11:57:13 Saturn_ [~rose@111.58.103.239] has joined #lisp 11:59:07 invariant: common lisp is not as fixated with tail-call elimination as other languages. In fact, the standard does not require it. 11:59:35 jeti [~user@p548EB8E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:37 -!- zolk3ri1 [~Zol1ka@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:38 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.160.201] has joined #lisp 12:06:22 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 12:07:14 ngz [~user@102.188.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:53 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 12:12:38 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 12:13:53 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.182.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:17:33 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 12:19:59 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-239-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:22:19 -!- Urfin [~user@213.57.184.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:01 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-235-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:09 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-251-248.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:30:51 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-37-226.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 12:33:33 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-204-75-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 12:35:10 AeroNotix [~xeno@abor71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:36:06 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 12:36:36 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:36:59 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 12:37:21 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:39:24 bee [~coleopter@110.139.242.50] has joined #lisp 12:42:37 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.242] has joined #lisp 12:42:41 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 12:42:45 hi] 12:42:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h94-75-54-226.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:43:19 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43:32 Joreji 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joined #lisp 13:07:01 can you describe in more detail what do you want to do? 13:07:15 -!- ludston [~patience@CPE-121-216-102-83.lnse2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:07:18 i really don't want to invent my own event manager 13:08:00 i'm developing an API for extending the browser 13:08:17 that's to vague, can you be more specific? 13:08:54 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:08 and i need some kind of event management, which incorporates Qt signals/slots, but can be extended dynamically 13:09:40 what do you want to do with signals? 13:09:51 for example if i'm adding a lamda as event handler, then i want to trigger custom event from that handler 13:10:41 anonus: with the MOP, you can add slots to instances of a CLOS class at run-time. 13:10:51 the same as Qt signals do - trigger an events like "page loaded" or "page processed by this plugin" or so 13:10:59 anonus: as for conditions, it would depend on whether the conditions are implemented as CLOS classes or not. 13:11:13 pjb: anonus is not talking about that kind of slots 13:11:26 pjb: and how Qt will respond to this? 13:11:28 Well, he only said "some object" 13:11:44 Now obviously if we start talking of C++ objects in #lisp 13:12:13 pjb: it is long term converstation about common t 13:12:15 pjb: if you don't know how commonqt works, you can refrain from participating in this discussion 13:12:15 common qt 13:14:10 anonus: i still don't understand what do you want to do, maybe describe step by step the process? 13:14:21 what signals what, what you want to do with it, etc. 13:15:58 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:17:56 well, ok, after i have though again seems that i can live without dynamic signals 13:18:11 what did you say about anonymous slots? 13:18:39 you can connect a signal to just a function 13:18:42 can i make it look like (add-handler object signal (lambda () ...)) ? 13:18:57 (connect object "signal()" (lambda ())) 13:19:04 cool, this exactly what i need 13:20:01 dynamic signals could probably made to work as well 13:20:09 the only thing i need now is to somehow wrap it to avoid showing bowels of Qt 13:20:44 in more lisp-friendly way (macros etc) 13:21:53 oh, before i started, how do you think will there be a problems with passing signals from foreign thread to lisp thread and vice versa? 13:22:11 no idea 13:22:22 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 13:22:24 i see, ok 13:22:49 i'll report result of my adventures 13:23:07 one time experimenting w/ a closure, I included a function ti run a lambda inside 13:23:28 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:58 is "with" really that harder to type than "w/"? 13:24:41 sorry and /ti/to/ 13:25:12 but what was your question? 13:27:07 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:27 mutley89 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16:39:48 -!- bitonic` [~user@ppp-183-29.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:40:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:42:20 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:46:15 bitonic` [~user@ppp-183-29.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 16:46:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h94-75-54-226.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:47:54 Is it possible to look up function source code from a repl? 16:48:22 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:49:38 wting: M-. 16:51:11 I'm actually just using the command line repl / vim (specfically sbcl). -_- 16:52:10 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Changing host] 16:52:10 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 16:54:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h94-75-54-226.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 16:54:31 you should use emacs and slime 16:54:39 tensorpuddin [~tensorpud@99.148.196.240] has joined #lisp 16:55:20 I've already invested a decade into vim, not inclined to switch. :/ 16:55:38 all the same information is available to vim users; you just have to do it all by hand 16:55:53 (or there's slimv or similar things; good luck) 16:56:08 You could look at the code in slime that does function source code lookup, then do that yourself 16:56:29 sb-introspect is another place to start 16:56:42 I'm told emacs comes with a decent vi now. 16:56:53 hmm, I'll look into slimv. It's probably what I should be using anyway 16:57:00 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.16.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:57:00 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 17:00:13 Joreji [~thomas@72-228.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:01:41 dnolen [~user@ppp-70-242-122-199.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:28 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:07:52 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-046-005-062-174.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:08:02 -!- Saturn_ [~rose@111.58.103.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:08:33 Saturn_ [~rose@111.58.103.239] has joined #lisp 17:08:53 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-159-41.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:09:16 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003e8e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:19 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:10:23 -!- Saturn_ [~rose@111.58.103.239] has quit [Client Quit] 17:11:30 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h94-75-54-226.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h94-75-54-226.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 17:11:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-83.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:13:03 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-78-124.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:13:12 add^_ [~add^_@m212-152-10-180.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 17:14:13 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:14:36 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:15 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:40 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:20:36 -!- pnpuff [~claustrum@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:20:48 zacts [~user@67-0-172-247.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:50 -!- zacts [~user@67-0-172-247.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:22:43 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 17:24:32 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:25:21 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 17:27:54 -!- MDev [~M@dhcp-077-251-155-158.chello.nl] has quit [] 17:29:00 -!- am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:29:20 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:35 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:09 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.246.235] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 17:35:24 linse [~marioooh@209-6-30-187.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:35:35 -!- linse [~marioooh@209-6-30-187.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:37:49 jackmackg [~ARTgames@cpe-76-187-191-192.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:38:48 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 17:40:14 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:44:32 -!- Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:45:40 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-233-161.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:03 wting: a decade with the wrong choice! Oh dear! Don't lose a microsecond more on vim! Switch to emacs already! 17:49:00 pjb: Can't tell if you're being condescending and/or sarcastic. I actually started out on emacs... 17:49:34 I'm sorry that a programming language is so ingrained with a specific editor... 17:49:53 wting: : that's actually the whole point. 17:51:14 Well sometimes you just want to learn a PL without being forced to change other behaviors. 17:51:30 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:51:31 "I want to learn how to drive manual." "Switch to a Ford!" 17:51:46 wting: try evil. i don't feel like i'm leaving vim when i use emacs. 17:52:40 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 17:53:14 Listen, I'm not going to get anywhere in #lisp talking about editors. PL and editors should be orthogonal choices, but if you guys want to tie the two together that's your (community's) priority. 17:54:36 -!- eataix [eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:54:51 blandest [~user@86.124.185.175] has joined #lisp 17:55:21 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@li568-31.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:55:24 wting: well, it's not much that lisp is ingrained with emacs, that very few of the other editors have any considering for lisp languages. 17:55:43 And this is rather trivial to support honestly lisp, given its syntax. 17:55:45 pnpuff [~claustrum@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:56:16 wting: you can write java in vim, but anyone with a decent understanding of the platform will, rightfully, tell you to use a proper ide when writing java. 17:56:34 Otherwise, indeed, editors and languages, or languages and IDE, are orthogonal subjets. 17:56:44 eataix [eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has joined #lisp 17:56:50 wting: it is similar with lisp. lisp is small, and there is only little manpower to support ides. emacs is by far the best choice for writing lisp. 17:57:00 wting: you'll miss out on a lot of nifty integration, or fight with half-supported ersatz of what's available in emacs. 17:57:07 The question is whether you're a newbie learning your first language, or you're a professionnal programmer needing to be productive in a new language. 17:57:20 I can't agree that languages are orthogonal to the tools we use them with. 17:57:22 H4ns: Language verbosity requiring an IDE is one of the main criticsms of Java. 17:57:26 zacts [~lcc@67-0-172-247.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:45 easye: if you need more than ed to write programs in a given language, then there's a problem with that language. 17:58:09 wting: i'm not here to discuss java. my point was that vim is not the proper tool for java programming, and the same holds true for emacs and lisp. 17:58:19 easye: you can write good lisp programs with ed. People wrote lisp programs with card punchers! 17:58:24 "necessity" doesn't imply a recommended course of action. 17:58:34 Exactly. 17:58:44 -!- green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-19-106.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:59:02 H4ns: I'm repeating myself. If a PL requires a certain editor then it's a problem with that language design, e.g. Lisp and Java included. 17:59:19 Why can't I get similar functionality from the command line lisp repl like I do with ipython or irb? 17:59:25 wting: lisp doesn't require emacs. You can write lisp code with vim. 17:59:43 wting: luckily, you can choose other languages. 17:59:57 wting: because it would mean botching lisp implementations. 18:00:01 lisp without vim is like icecream without the ketchup and mustard :/ 18:00:05 brendyn [brendyn@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has joined #lisp 18:00:07 wting: the question is more why can't I have the same funcitonality that SLIME offers with python or ruby, at all. 18:00:15 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:25 oGMo: good point! 18:00:26 ipython and irb are pathetic compared to the worse lisp repl. 18:01:04 You can easily get what little ipython and irb have, without editor integration. We're used to more. 18:01:24 pkhuong: probably a good point because there's nothing really stopping you .. the main issue is _parsing_ ruby/python in emacs is painful/impossible 18:02:09 wting: Why not use Emacs for your repl? 18:02:24 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:04:02 wting: using only vi to edit lisp code is like playing the violin only with the hands (pizzicato) (: 18:04:44 I think he's gotten the point by now. 18:06:28 green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 18:06:38 *wting* shrugs 18:06:41 wting: a lisp repl is richer than the python or ruby command lines 18:06:49 the point is that a good lisper is like Paganini ... so Emacs is needed. ^^ 18:11:42 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5AF500C6.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:44 -!- milosn_ [~milosn@user-5AF500C6.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:11:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@72-228.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:12:26 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@p54BF89F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:15:59 stassats: when inheriting some classes (QUrl and QProxyFactory for example) when i'm trying to create an instance i got nil in sw_make_dynamic_binding in argument meta-object-index which is short and lisps throws a type-error 18:16:10 am i doing something wrong or this is a bug? 18:16:25 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:42 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF89F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:16:52 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:18:57 paste the code 18:19:59 oh, nevermind, QUrl is not a QObject 18:21:02 LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 18:21:46 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.81.128] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:21:50 wut? 18:22:01 https://gitorious.org/common-sense/common-sense/blobs/trash/src/url.lisp 18:22:09 (make-instance 'url) 18:22:33 not being a QObject means you can't subclass it 18:23:17 oh, Odin 18:23:33 and the same with QProxyFactory ? 18:24:05 Joreji [~thomas@72-228.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:24:09 you mean QNetworkProxyFactory? 18:24:17 yep 18:24:29 oh, damn 18:24:31 thanks! ) 18:24:32 it's not a QObject either 18:25:00 i'm specified in code "QProxyFactory" instead of "QNetworkProxyFactory" 18:25:13 oh 18:25:22 and no way i can subclass it? 18:25:57 not that i know of 18:26:49 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:00 maybe there is, i would need to check 18:27:24 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:10 -!- wting [~wting@pool-173-71-48-161.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 18:28:25 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:29:35 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:36 -!- pnpuff [~claustrum@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:30:08 anonus: what would you do with it after overriding? 18:30:31 err, after subclassing 18:30:36 i just need to override one method 18:30:39 queryProxy 18:33:57 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:35:31 Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has joined #lisp 18:35:32 so if i'll be able to put a lambda into it, i'll be ok 18:40:50 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: testin] 18:41:07 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:36 at a first glance, that doesn't seem to be possible, i'll at it more in depth later 18:41:51 and institute a better error message in case it's indeed impossible 18:42:02 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 18:42:38 -!- zacts [~lcc@67-0-172-247.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:44:24 besides, none of the methods are virtual 18:48:14 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 18:49:25 duko [~duko@pool-71-104-156-221.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:25 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:50:35 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:10 stassats: proxyfactory's queryProxy is virtual 18:53:48 -!- blandest [~user@86.124.185.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:55:20 blandest [~user@86.124.185.175] has joined #lisp 18:58:18 when I use postmodern to return a row with a 'timestamp' type column, the timestamp is bigint and not timestamp 18:59:10 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-204-241.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:12 I understand that I will need to convert the bigint value into a string 18:59:35 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF89F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:59:48 what is the best way of abstracting this process so that rows my be updated 19:00:00 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF89F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:00:12 without managing conversion of timestamp columns 19:02:00 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:04:55 duko: I think it returns them as universal-times 19:04:58 f03lipe [~f03lipe@186.205.212.50] has joined #lisp 19:05:12 (but it's been a long time since I used postmodern) 19:05:33 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF89F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:05:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.123.192] has joined #lisp 19:05:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.123.192] has quit [Changing host] 19:05:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:06:13 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF89F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:06:23 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF89F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:06:33 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF89F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:08:54 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:32 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:57 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:33 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-046-005-062-174.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:11:26 -!- cddr`` [user@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:b02b] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:11:39 cddr`` [user@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:b02b] has joined #lisp 19:12:37 -!- Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:13:07 Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has joined #lisp 19:13:19 -!- anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:13:58 anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #lisp 19:16:35 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:57 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:17:31 impomatic [~digital_w@211.67.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:23:21 Codynyx [~cody@173-23-103-44.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:56 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:24:51 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-swin14-2-0-cust274.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:25:04 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 19:25:05 -!- green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:25:06 duko: iirc, postmodern defined the local-time package for manipulating dates. 19:26:09 if your dao object has the correct type for the appropriate slot, it should turn into a timestamp object. 19:26:37 but it has been awhile since I used postmodern/dao stuff, so I may misremember. trust but verify! 19:28:44 -!- jimmyy [jimmyy@218.59.116.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:28:49 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:29:56 What would be the best document (complete)? I don't know how to use hyperspec other than searching for specific function/symbol/macro. So i thought cltl2 would be what i was looking for yet i remember someone said it was not the best source anymore. 19:30:17 mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-swin14-2-0-cust274.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:35 the hyperspec is the definitive source of information on CL. 19:30:52 nan_: perhaps you'd want to read PCL 19:30:55 if you are looking for an expositional treatment, see practical common lisp. 19:30:59 minion: tell nan_ about PCL 19:30:59 nan_: please see PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 19:31:01 or PAIP 19:31:07 Fade: say i want to read everything about pathnames, how can i use hyperspec for it? 19:31:23 Read the pathname chapter? 19:31:50 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index.htm 19:31:54 pjb: i read pcl but i am talking about a complete CL reference chapter by chapter 19:32:08 See: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/Contents.htm 19:32:15 nan: that is the literal reason for the hyperspec. 19:33:00 jimmyy [jimmyy@218.59.116.38] has joined #lisp 19:33:00 -!- jimmyy [jimmyy@218.59.116.38] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:33:03 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 19:33:21 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:33:30 jimmyy [jimmyy@218.59.116.38] has joined #lisp 19:33:30 -!- jimmyy [jimmyy@218.59.116.38] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:34:04 jimmyy [jimmyy@218.59.116.38] has joined #lisp 19:34:04 -!- jimmyy [jimmyy@218.59.116.38] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:34:34 jimmyy [jimmyy@218.59.116.38] has joined #lisp 19:34:35 -!- jimmyy [jimmyy@218.59.116.38] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:34:50 I think my problem is that i need to learn how to use hyperspec, thanks :) 19:34:58 -!- Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:35:01 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.35.204] has quit [Quit: ...] 19:35:14 it's profoundly worth doing. 19:35:26 green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 19:35:38 nan_: there's a big right arrow on the top of each page. Read a page, click on the right arrow, repeat. 19:36:22 jimmyy [jimmyy@218.59.116.38] has joined #lisp 19:36:23 -!- jimmyy [jimmyy@218.59.116.38] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:37:34 jimmyy [jimmyy@218.59.116.38] has joined #lisp 19:37:43 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:38:20 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 19:39:23 slime can look up hyperspec docs for you from your buffers or a repl. 19:40:37 -!- green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:41:48 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-swin14-2-0-cust274.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:41:49 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-184-45.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:43:02 Fade: yes it works great when i am looking for a particual symbol yes 19:43:58 if i want to automatically edit docstrings in cl source files, is emacs my best option? i.e. use slime to locate the function by name, then elisp to locate the docstring? 19:44:20 Yes. 19:45:24 H4ns: How would it work differently? I mean I can see that in a truly image-based environment you could just use (setf documentation) but what do you mean? 19:46:13 linse [~marioooh@18.38.7.220] has joined #lisp 19:46:14 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:23 tcr1: i'd kind of want to do it in cl completely, but it seems not to be really feasible, as there is no cl source file editing infrastructure in cl if i'm not missing something. 19:46:39 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:53 univyrse [~univyrse@71-82-19-203.static.mtgm.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:47:01 H4ns: actually, there is. 19:47:10 pjb: how? 19:47:37 (setf (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.file:text-file-contents "source.lisp") (modify-the-string (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.file:text-file-contents "source.lisp"))) 19:47:49 Just write the modify-the-string function./ 19:47:55 \o/ 19:48:08 *Fade* chuckles 19:48:23 You can also use cl:ed, or com.informatimago.common-lisp.ed.ed:ed :-) 19:48:24 well, problem a) is "locate the code by function name", problem b) is "edit the docstring" 19:48:36 -!- chr` [~user@ti0061a380-dhcp1282.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:49:18 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.129] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:49:26 a) is solved (conformingly) by ibcl. 19:49:29 H4ns: part a could be done by a combination of grep and asdf 19:49:38 some cl grep, of course. 19:49:39 slime uses implementation dependant API to do the same. 19:49:50 there's code in swank to locate the source, and also to read the file into as a string 19:50:01 tcr1: right. that sounds like feasible 19:54:24 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.129] has joined #lisp 20:02:11 hey mishoo 20:03:18 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has joined #lisp 20:03:20 como [~alex@cpe-67-244-7-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:21 -!- Entroacceptor [~mad@unserver.de] has quit [Quit: Ellen und noch so ein Tag verpennt] 20:03:40 bitonic` [~user@ppp-91-20.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 20:04:10 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-183-29.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:05:07 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF89F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:05:21 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF89F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:05:32 -!- bitonic` [~user@ppp-91-20.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:06:12 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h94-75-54-226.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:06:18 bitonic` [~user@ppp-91-20.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 20:06:23 -!- _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:20 is it possible to evaluate emacs lisp expressions through swank? 20:08:43 ah. it is. 20:08:44 cool. 20:09:27 so i can write my program in cl and use swank to retrieve the docstrings from the source and eventually edit them, too. 20:09:33 nice. 20:10:22 i want to stop having to maintain documentation and docstrings in parallel, and generating documentation from docstrings is teh sux. i'm trying the other way round, i.e. generate docstrings from documentation. 20:10:52 users have expressed that they want docstrings and they want them inline, so that's why i need to edit the source code programmatically 20:10:59 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:12:31 -!- bitonic` [~user@ppp-91-20.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:03 -!- bind [~bind@D4B2749A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:16:19 omouse [~user@24.246.63.243] has joined #lisp 20:16:45 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:45 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:08 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:08 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:20:05 H4ns: that's pretty clever (: 20:21:03 antifuchs: so far, it is just a theory, but thanks for the encouragement :) 20:21:11 sdemarre [~serge@34.92-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:21:41 H4ns: are you planning to get rid of docstrings from source code, too? 20:22:06 so that only the lisp image would have the docstrings attached to objects, and no more text in source code? 20:22:10 (that would be pretty great) 20:22:13 antifuchs: i'd not mind, but the superuser wants them in the code 20:22:16 -!- duko [~duko@pool-71-104-156-221.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:22:26 *nod* I figured (: 20:22:57 but once i got it working, i guess i'll no longer put docstrings into sources where i'm the superuser. 20:23:11 ^_^ 20:24:25 H4ns: you can put docstrings with (setf documentation). No need to have them in the sources, if you can get them with (documentation 'fun 'function). 20:24:58 pjb: i know that. it is just that i have some users that want the docstrings to be in the source. 20:24:59 Ah, if there's a superuser 20:25:03 ok. 20:29:32 LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 20:29:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-83.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:31 -!- Codynyx [~cody@173-23-103-44.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:33:13 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.28.188] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:34:06 -!- gf3 [~gf3@oftn/member/gf3] has quit [Changing host] 20:34:06 gf3 [~gf3@unaffiliated/gf3] has joined #lisp 20:34:31 -!- dnolen [~user@ppp-70-242-122-199.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:34:33 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:34:46 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: lifeform experiment terminated] 20:43:47 ludston [~patience@CPE-121-216-102-83.lnse2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 20:46:18 patrick_ [~patrick@2.171.168.159] has joined #lisp 20:47:49 univyrse: what's up? 20:50:41 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:51:38 -!- ludston [~patience@CPE-121-216-102-83.lnse2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:51:41 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 20:52:35 -!- zmyrgel [~zmyrgel@a91-153-150-75.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:52:38 Roscoe`` [~user@114-37-169-103.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:34 eichelbart_ [~eichelbar@91-66-49-102-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:55:50 -!- Roscoe` [~user@111-251-242-117.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:56:44 -!- eichelbart [~eichelbar@91-65-63-57-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:57:07 magistr [~magistr@109.111.174.36] has joined #lisp 20:57:34 give ma a book to learn a lambda calculus 20:57:51 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:51 i know of a few books that explain lambda calculus for the purpose of something else, but on its own I don't think it's really complicated enough for its own book? (also, that's off-topic) 21:02:27 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:02:49 -!- eichelbart_ [~eichelbar@91-66-49-102-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:04:25 -!- magistr [~magistr@109.111.174.36] has left #lisp 21:04:42 eichelbart [~eichelbar@91-66-49-102-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:10:20 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:10:28 green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 21:15:02 -!- jackmackg [~ARTgames@cpe-76-187-191-192.tx.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 21:16:52 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF89F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:20:27 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:21:31 jeti` [~user@p548EA198.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:13 -!- green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:24:49 -!- jeti [~user@p548EB8E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:25:08 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.121.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:25:47 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 21:28:52 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:58 ASau [~user@46.115.121.150] has joined #lisp 21:31:27 luqui [~luqui@70.96.9.229] has joined #lisp 21:38:34 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abon108.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:39:51 int3__ [~int3__@c-174-62-76-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:42 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abor71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:41:15 I am writing a macro that wants to convert a string into a symbol name, which is then captured by the calling environment when the macro is called. however, I keep getting compiler complaints that say that the symbol is unbound. any idea what I am doing wrong? 21:42:34 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-204-75-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 21:43:07 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abon108.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 21:43:21 basically I am doing something like: (defmacro mac () (print (make-symbol "a-b")) 21:43:32 (defparameter a-b "wat") 21:43:38 (mac) 21:43:53 but this gives me a variable unbound error 21:43:56 int3__: try intern rather than make-symbol 21:44:34 int3__: then (mac) will expand into #:a-b, which is unbound. 21:44:35 mishoo: still the same error 21:45:14 (defmacro mac () `(print (intern "A-B"))) 21:45:34 *mishoo* thinks ..oO( but that's probably a poor solution to the wrong problem. ) 21:45:42 AeroNotix [~xeno@abon108.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:46:32 -!- patrick_ [~patrick@2.171.168.159] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:46:33 http://paste.lisp.org/display/134767 works, but does it make sense? good use of pathname? 21:47:53 int3__: (defmacro mac () `(print ,(intern "A-B"))) ;; added comma, that is 21:48:21 ikki [~ikki@187.208.132.53] has joined #lisp 21:50:00 *mishoo* thinks ..oO( of course, that's as good as (defun mac () (print a-b)) ) 21:50:38 mishoo: ah, that works now, thanks! but um... if I change "A-B" to be defined by a let rather than a defparameter, I get an unbound error again. why is that so? 21:50:53 -!- nikodem [~nikodem@user-109-243-49-63.play-internet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:50 -!- rogers_ [~rogers@37.244.209.71] has quit [Quit: rogers_] 21:51:55 int3__: example? 21:53:31 (defmacro mac () `(print ,(intern "abc"))) 21:53:32 (let ((abc "wat")) (mac)) 21:53:50 mishoo: this gives "undefined variable: |abc|" 21:54:06 zajn_ [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:12 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:38 try (intern "ABC") (uppercase, that is) 21:54:56 because 'abc's symbol-name is ABC, but (intern "abc")'s results's symbol-name is abc. 21:55:01 int3__: (intern (string-upcase "abc")) 21:55:04 this seems like a really weird design, by the way. 21:55:31 int3__: what are you trying to do? 21:55:41 weird or not, it's a design at least 21:55:59 comment on my design too! 21:57:10 *mishoo* thinks ..oO( any case, I still think int3__ is trying to answer the wrong problem :) ) 21:57:11 I'm having a macro generate a bunch of 2D sprite creating functions, which take an optional color palette parameter, whose default name is sprite-name + "-palette", i.e. the generated code is going to be something like (flet mushroom (&optional mushroom-palette) ()) 21:57:20 nan_: well, my personal opinion is that pathnames should no longer be used. :-) 21:57:42 prxq: how else i could solve that then? 21:58:03 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-184-45.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 21:58:04 but basically this is my first lisp project, and I am trying to do all the metaprogramming I can do for its own sake :) I definitely don't have much idea of how to structure lisp programs properly, though 21:58:21 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-184-45.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:58:31 int3__: I'm not sure you should use macros in your first lisp project 21:59:16 mrSpec: but I'm learning lisp because I heard that macros are what made it special... lol 21:59:29 nan_: well, what are you trying to achieve? :-) 21:59:30 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 21:59:52 int3__: they are... but most importantly is to know when not to use macros. ;) 22:00:08 int3__: no, it's ok to use macros right away. Just be aware that the solution you are producing is likely not very good. 22:00:35 -!- sdemarre [~serge@34.92-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:00:43 nan_: what are you going to do with those cpp files? 22:00:45 prxq: i was trying to access files like "../dir/file.ext" from current file 22:01:06 nan_: have you seen this? http://tkpapp.blogspot.de/2013/01/announcing-trivial-project-pathname.html 22:01:08 prxq: i am going to use cffi-grovel using those header files 22:01:25 -using +with* 22:02:04 haven't seen that, checking now 22:02:21 nan_: ok, well. I usually use strings for this kind of thing. It's easy to write a very small set of functions that does what pathnames do without the harrowing pain. 22:03:44 prxq: i was using hardcoded paths too but i keep changing names and such, it get annoying 22:04:08 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-3-26.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:04:27 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.132.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:05:16 re macros: noted. I plan read more lisp books once I get comfortable enough with the language so that my eyes don't glaze over a full page of code. thanks for all the help! 22:06:51 knob [~knob@66-50-3-26.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:03 -!- luqui [luqui@DD067510.4F993F33.CC2C5D1F.IP] has quit [Quit: luqui] 22:07:03 -!- luqui [~luqui@70.96.9.229] has quit [Quit: luqui] 22:07:22 nan_: right, but you can write a short function based on concatenate that builds string paths out of components. 22:07:35 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c243c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: good night] 22:10:05 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:29 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 22:10:43 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:23 luqui [~luqui@h-64-105-152-138.dnvtco56.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:07 -!- luqui [luqui@clozure-DC4240E0.dnvtco56.static.covad.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 22:14:07 -!- luqui 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