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00:25:15 <nan_>  i am possibly going to regret this as i never post comments neither do blogs/FB or similar, but is it too much to ask (yes this is a question) from prominent members of this community to keep their ignorance about world affairs and their bigotted, morally indefensable/bankrupt (i don't want to believe the second, most probably it is only ignorance) views on themselves, or seperate from technical blogs? thank you.
00:25:55 <Corvidium> nan_: who are you referring to?
00:26:21 <Corvidium> because I'm sure no one self-identifies as ignorant, bigoted, morally indefendible etc. etc.
00:27:08 <Corvidium> on the other hand, you could tell us what views you are referring to
00:27:09 <nan_> i don't want to point fingers but lets just say i read every lisp blogs i find
00:27:23 <Corvidium> that doesn't narrow it down at all....
00:27:30 <Bike> you should take it up with the blogger.
00:27:40 <Corvidium> yeah, probably better for the channel
00:28:00 <nan_> am sorry, just couldn't control it
00:28:18 <Corvidium> it's OK, no lasting drama has been caused
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01:11:25 <Ener2> hello, I was wondering if it is possible to use reader macros to generate strings
01:11:38 <jasom> Ener2: yes
01:11:45 <Bike> sure, just have the macro function return a string.
01:11:55 <antifuchs> sure is. check out the perl-like interpolation reader macro edi weitz wrote (:
01:12:00 <Ener2> something akin to { blah """""""""""""" \\\\\ }
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01:12:07 <antifuchs> minion: cl-interpol
01:12:09 <minion> cl-interpol: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/cl-interpol
01:12:19 <antifuchs> that's very helpful, minion
01:12:25 <Ener2> hahaha
01:12:41 <jasom> http://weitz.de/cl-interpol/
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01:13:17 <Ener2> hmm I would rather not have dependency if I can avoid it but I will take look
01:13:37 <antifuchs> cl-interpol has a balanced-delimiter thing too. it's pretty much the best thing ever (:
01:13:37 <jasom> Ener2: I think that's more of an example than a dependency
01:13:54 <antifuchs> also, dependencies are pretty easy if you have quicklisp. highly recommended (:
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01:14:19 <Ener2> I am using ecl so I can just link with asdf but still
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01:32:12 <pjb> Ener2:  #\" is a reader amcro that generates a string!
01:32:39 <pjb> The lisp reader only knows how to parse symbols, integers, floating points and ratios.
01:32:56 <pjb> All the rest are reader macros and dispatching reader macros.
01:34:01 <pjb> Now, something funny.  In Postscript, strings are written between parentheses.  Write a reader macro so that you can write strings as (Hello (the fine) world!) instead of "Hello (the fine) world!".
01:34:27 <Corvidium> that's confusing, pjb
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01:34:31 <pjb> while keeping parentheses for lists :-)
01:34:40 <Corvidium> or rather, would be confusing
01:35:03 <pjb> Nothing that a good dose of DWIN can't solve :-)
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01:41:09 <Ener2> I see
01:41:45 <Ener2> http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/690034capture1358559688.png this seems to work
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01:44:20 <nan_> pjb: what is a DWIN?
01:45:09 <Bike> you didn't handle nesting
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01:45:22 <pjb> Ener2: did-now is not used. You can remove it.
01:45:28 <pjb> nan_: Do What I Mean.
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01:45:47 <pjb> nan_: it's a software module that guesses what the user wants.
01:45:55 <nan_> pjb: *cheers thanks
01:46:01 <Ener2> pjb: I use it for marking if it was this character that was escaped or not
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01:50:26 <pjb> Ener2: It is not used.
01:50:42 <pjb> Ener2: use http://paste.lisp.org/new so that you can paste as text.
01:52:26 <pjb> used = read after having been written.
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01:55:25 <antifuchs> eichelbart: http://netzhansa.blogspot.com/2013/01/berlin-lispers-meetup-tue-january-29th.html <- you might be interested in that, re. yesterday's discussion (:
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02:00:18 <Ener2> http://paste.lisp.org/+2VYL
02:01:44 <antifuchs> Ener2: I guess you could probably also use read-delimited-list
02:01:45 <Ener2> hmm actually now that I think about it
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02:02:32 <antifuchs> oh, although that returns a list, maybe not what you want
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02:03:00 <Ener2> nice catch there, pjb, thanks
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02:03:39 <pjb> Ener2: try something like: http://paste.lisp.org/+2VYL/1
02:04:42 <pjb> Also, with a table of matching parentheses, you could use the char parameter to determine automatically the terminating character.
02:05:26 <Ener2> well I would like to preserve \ if it is not used as escape for {
02:05:31 <Ener2> *}
02:05:53 <pjb> So you could install the same reader macro function to several characters and write (list {Hello [A] world} [Hello {B} world]) to generate a list of two strings.
02:06:13 <Ener2> do if you have { \ } it will return "\\"
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02:06:58 <pjb> So you want: {a\b\}c} --> "a\\b}c"
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02:07:26 <Ener2> yeah
02:08:13 <Ener2> the reason I did this is to cut down the escaping, really
02:08:15 <pjb> My code lacks a (setf escape nil) in the first branch of the if.
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02:09:20 <pjb> There: http://paste.lisp.org/+2VYL/2
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02:10:41 <pjb> Ener2: in Modula-2, strings can be quoted with either ' or ", and there's no escape.  So you can write '"' and "'", but not a literal string that contains both a ' and a ".
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02:11:01 <Ener2> like python
02:11:35 <Ener2> I am making inline lisp in html so if I even wanted to print some html
02:11:38 <pjb> Otherwise, there's the classic way of doubling the quote (kind of self escaping) of Pascal: 'a string with " quote and '' quote.'
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02:11:54 <Ener2> it was cumberstone to have (princ "<a href=\"blah\"></a>")
02:12:00 <Ener2> thats why I needed {}
02:12:18 <pjb> Ener2: there's already lsp, you know. http://www.cliki.net/LSP
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02:13:24 <Ener2> but this one generates pages only, no?
02:13:42 <Ener2> my current inline lisp works with my current webserver together, though
02:13:57 <pjb> ok.
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02:15:17 <Ener2> plus it only seems to be working with lispworks and allegro
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02:26:25 <Ener2> is there a way to ignore nil in format args?
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02:30:44 <nan_> Ener2: you mean (format nil "str")?
02:30:58 <Ener2> no, I mean more like
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02:31:51 <Ener2> (format nil "~A" nil)
02:31:58 <Ener2> in which case if it is nil it will be ignored
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02:32:38 <pjb> yes.
02:32:43 <nan_> Oh there was a format construction like that yes, but i need to find out which one
02:33:17 <nan_> if you got PCL there was an example in it
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02:33:20 <pjb> (format t "~{~@[~A ~]~}" '(nil a nil b))
02:33:54 <Ener2> so its  ~@ ?
02:34:05 <pjb> No, it's ~[ with the @ flag.
02:34:08 <pjb> clhs format
02:34:09 <specbot> http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_format.htm
02:34:11 <Ener2> ah okay, thanks
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02:35:09 <Ener2> btw there should be bot with lisp eval in this channel, if there isnt yet
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02:35:46 <pjb> Ener2: no, eval bots are forbidden here.  There was a #lispbot channel, don't know if it still exists.
02:35:55 <Ener2> for security reasons?
02:36:09 <pjb> eval bots are too chatty.
02:36:16 <Ener2> wha?
02:36:22 <Ener2> dont they just... eval?
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02:36:46 <pjb> People ask too much evaluations.  This is not a REPL, this is #lisp.
02:36:54 <Ener2> I see
02:37:01 <Ener2> well I meant more for when you have to show example
02:37:12 <pjb> rudybot is useful, but I had to /ignore it.
02:37:29 <pjb> Ener2: there's a /eval command add on in erc.
02:37:53 <pjb> I type /eval (format nil "~{~@[~A ~]~}" '(nil a nil b)) RET and it is substititued by
02:37:54 <sw2wolf> pjb: rudybot just accept scheme/racket expression
02:37:56 <pjb> (format nil "~{~@[~A ~]~}" '(nil a nil b)) => "a b "
02:38:16 <Ener2> I see
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02:58:36 <drmeister> How do common lisp implementations typically recognize how to halt sxhash calculations on cyclic data? Say of a network of CONSes - do they keep track of every CONS they see?
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02:59:43 <pkhuong> drmeister: bound the recursion depth.
03:00:08 <drmeister> pkhuong: That's it?  That's easy - great, thanks.
03:01:01 <Bike> drmeister: it's a hash function, so, (equal x y) may imply (= (sxhash x) (sxhash y)), but not necessarily the converse
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03:01:36 <drmeister> Follow up - what would it be limited to?
03:01:36 <drmeister> The recursion depth that is.
03:01:54 <pkhuong> If you want a good distribution, the easiest way is probably to (partially) serialise to some fixed-length buffer and run a good third-party hash on the byte buffer.
03:02:39 <drmeister> That's a good idea.  I'll do that.
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03:06:11 <drmeister> You would only need one sxhash buffer for each thread right? There would never be an instance where you are part of the way through an sxhash calculation and another would be started.
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03:07:06 <Bike> not unless your serialization process somehow involves sxhash, i guess
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03:10:06 <pkhuong> and on how/whether you handle posix signals or thread interruptions.
03:13:30 <drmeister> I was saying "each thread" for the general case. I don't have multi-threading.
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05:41:30 <ahungry> Boy do I feel dumb, I just realized my "weird problem" requiring a second compile of a defun in my loaded program was because at some point I duplicated the function and defun'ed the same function twice in one file
05:41:48 <ahungry> ugh!!
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06:01:15 <reactormonk> is there a read-file-into-string ?
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06:06:22 <samebchase> redline6561: alexandria:read-file-into-string
06:06:36 <samebchase> sorry, reactormonk ^
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06:06:47 <reactormonk> samebchase, oh, thanks, but wrong channel :-/ (emacs)
06:07:09 <samebchase> heh
06:07:23 <vlion> ... and I was just going to provide a slurp function. :-)
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08:23:54 <msmith0957> how can i use map with functions that require more than one arg ?
08:24:17 <|3b|> pass it more than 1 list, or curry the function?
08:24:47 <Bike> (map 'list #'+ '(4 5 6) '(9 3829 -0)) => (13 3834 6)
08:24:53 <stassats> (mapcar (lambda (x) (+ x 2)) '(1 2 3))
08:25:28 -!- H4ns changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language <http://paste.lisp.org/new>. New: Hunchentoot 1.2.10, SBCL 1.1.3, Yason 0.6.3, Drakma 1.3.0
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08:27:02 <hitecnologys> msmith0957: use currying maybe?
08:27:56 <zalijb> hai
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08:30:04 <msmith0957> ah, i didn't think i could pass map multiple lists. but it seems to be working for now.
08:30:22 <msmith0957> currying, idk anything about. it sounds confusing =p
08:30:45 <stassats> and it's not currying, it's partial application
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08:31:10 <H4ns> stassats: thank you for making that point, now i don't need to look smug myself!
08:31:12 <H4ns> :D
08:32:19 <Bike> "partial application" makes me think of the act of producing the function, like (compile nil `(lambda (x) (+ x ,papp-arg))).  but i guess that's probably weird too
08:33:21 <msmith0957> o_0
08:33:41 <msmith0957> I feel like I should learn this stuff.. but must. submit. hw
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08:35:18 <hitecnologys> What is the difference between currying and partial application?
08:36:15 <hitecnologys> I thought it is the same thing.
08:36:49 <Bike> currying is taking a function of n arguments and producing a function that takes one argument and returns a function of n-1 arguments.  partial application is that, but with some of the functions already applied to some arguments.
08:37:59 <hitecnologys> Hmm, thanks.
08:38:29 <stassats> currying is (lambda (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y))), partial application is (lambda (x) (+ x y))
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08:39:31 <msmith0957> ooo
08:40:44 <stassats> besides, you can what "partial application" means without looking up who is this Curry fellow is
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08:45:02 <zalijb> hai
08:45:31 <hitecnologys> zalijb: hello.
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10:30:30 <gendl> by Bike's definition, how is (lambda (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y))) currying?
10:30:41 <gendl> that looks like it returns a function of n arguments, not n-1 arguments.
10:31:37 <stassats> the original function was (lambda (x y))
10:31:59 <stassats> but currying returns a function of one argument, not n-1
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10:34:57 <stassats> (lambda (x y z) (+ x y z)) curried becomes (lambda (x) (lambda (y) (lambda (z) (+ x y z))))
10:35:24 <gendl> i c. thanks.
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11:17:31 <pjb> minion: memo for drmeister: how do you want to have a good CL-C++ integration if your CL is not multi-threaded?  C++ programs are almost always multi-threaded!
11:17:31 <minion> Remembered. I'll tell drmeister when he/she/it next speaks.
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11:20:45 <Zhivago> I think that I'd want to have such an integration via IPC.
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11:29:09 <pnpuff> can be IPC used only on Allegro and Lispworks processes or not?
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13:50:59 <ahungry> hi all
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14:03:22 <chr`> ahungry: Hi.
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14:13:00 <zolk3ri> http://paste.lisp.org/display/134738 and http://paste.lisp.org/display/134739 ... The C one takes 0.964 seconds (0.199 seconds with -DUBERFAST), the Common Lisp one takes 10.626 seconds to computate. Any ideas?
14:13:33 <zolk3ri> How can I make the Common Lisp one faster or something? 10 seconds vs 0.199 seconds is painful.
14:14:13 <stassats> not related to the performance, but did you know about the TIME macro?
14:14:48 <zolk3ri> no
14:14:55 <zolk3ri> anyway
14:15:13 <zolk3ri> first I was just using the "time" command.
14:15:34 <zolk3ri> but I need a way to make the Common Lisp one faster somehow.
14:16:39 <stassats> zolk3ri: http://paste.lisp.org/display/134739#1
14:17:06 <zolk3ri> thanks I'll try
14:18:29 <zolk3ri> yup, much faster
14:18:35 <zolk3ri> 1.678s
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14:20:16 <zolk3ri> Any way to optimize it further, stassats? :D
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14:38:02 <stassats> zolk3ri: http://paste.lisp.org/display/134739#2
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14:40:39 <zolk3ri> nice stassats, thank you.
14:40:41 <pkhuong> or, you know, just math.
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14:45:27 <pkhuong> See the annotation.
14:46:03 <stassats> well, that doesn't measure performance very well
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14:53:35 <pkhuong> it measures workingness very well.
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15:01:02 <pnpuff> zolk3ri: try to find an elegant representation by means of a closed form solution.
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15:17:36 <yuqian> Hi,everyone! I want to write a function tell me whether all the elements in a list are the same. Does there any useful function in SBCL exists? Or which functions can i use to make up such a function?
15:18:03 <Zhivago> Sounds something like every?
15:18:23 <stassats> (find (car list) (cdr list) :test-not #'eq)
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15:21:26 <stassats> or (find (elt sequence 0) sequence :test-not #'eq)
15:23:00 <yuqian> Oh, that's what i want! Thanks. It seems that your code is shorter than my description.:)
15:23:50 <stassats> well, if you want even shorter, but slower (not (cdr (remove-duplicates list)))
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15:53:54 <pavelpenev> if (eq x x) returned x instead of t, we could also write (reduce #'eq list)
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16:01:30 <jeti> (let ((l '(1 1 2))) (find (car l) (cdr l) :test-not #'eq)) -> 2 but not all elements are eq
16:02:29 <hitecnologys> Are there any nice html generation libraries? I tried some from Cliki but they are either too old or don't allow me to use macroses in html-expression.
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16:03:03 <pavelpenev> hitecnologys: have you tried sexml
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16:03:33 <hitecnologys> pavelpenev: nope, let's try it.
16:04:02 <hitecnologys> Oh my, it supports html5.
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16:19:14 <hitecnologys> Oh dear. Pavelpenev, thanks a lot. It works just as I wanted. Double thanks to madnificent for great library.
16:19:48 <stassats> jeti: that's correct, it's the opposite
16:20:14 <stassats> pavelpenev: that would traverse the whole list
16:21:29 <stassats> pavelpenev: ant wouldn't work with NIL
16:21:43 <jeti> yes got it
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16:22:12 <hitecnologys> The only disadvantage is that it prints everything to one line and it looks very shitty. Is this a restriction of sexml or I did something wrong?
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16:25:48 <stassats> pavelpenev: find actually doesn't work with NIL too, but position can be used instead
16:27:01 <stassats> or MEMBER, for lists only
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16:33:20 <pnpuff> hitecnologys: "everything means nothing" - Alicia K. :) -
16:33:37 <stassats> what?
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16:41:53 <hitecnologys> pnpuff: what do you mean by that?
16:42:58 <stassats> hitecnologys: pnpuff just says anything that comes into his mind
16:43:45 <stassats> whether it's relevant or not, or whether it's complete nonsense or not
16:43:54 <hitecnologys> lol
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16:48:00 <pnpuff> stassats: ...it prints everything to one line... , but "everything means nothing to me"  -Elliott S.-
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16:51:10 <hitecnologys> pnpuff: by prints everything to one line I mean that it's output is in single line. Like (<:html (<:body (<:h1 "Test"))) => "<html><body><h1>Test</h1></body></html>"
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16:52:32 <stassats> hitecnologys: but don't you find those quotes insightful, don't they make you feel better?
16:53:46 <lmj`> I ran into this AVER during cl-store:store https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/master/src/code/typep.lisp#L199
16:53:56 <lmj`> I've compiled everything with (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'debug 3) (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'safety 3)
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16:54:38 <lmj`> It's intermittent -- sometimes happens or not after restarting/reloading
16:55:12 <hitecnologys> stassats: yep, they do.
16:55:28 <lmj`> It may take a while to isolate; any suggestions might help
16:55:30 <stassats> lmj`: most likely the difference is because the class is defined in the same file as typep call, so reloading is not the same as loading the first time
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16:56:05 <lmj`> triggered by check-type at https://github.com/skypher/cl-store/blob/master/backends.lisp#L41
16:56:27 <hitecnologys> stassats: but single line long html code is most ugly thing I've ever seen. :P
16:56:42 <pnpuff> hitecnologys: maybe wrapping a regex matched palin text it's easy.
16:56:57 <pnpuff> plain
16:57:05 <stassats> lmj`: yep
16:57:39 <hitecnologys> pnpuff: how can regex help me to format html in right way with indents and other stuff?
16:57:50 <stassats> having both check-type and etypecase is a bit weird
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17:01:42 <stassats> lmj`: how old is your sbcl?
17:02:34 <lmj`> stassats: a few minutes :)
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17:02:57 <lmj`> also fails on 1.1.3
17:03:43 <stassats> and cl-store?
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17:06:51 <lmj`> stassats: the cl-store in quicklisp matches skypher's repository, save for a stray 'mcl' directory and a CCL fasl that somehow got into quicklisp
17:07:06 <stassats> well, i can't reproduce
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17:12:11 <stassats> lmj`: do you just load cl-store?
17:12:32 <stassats> or call with some parameters?
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17:13:45 <stassats> oh, you already said cl-store:store, what do you store?
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17:16:33 <lmj`> stassats: storing the number 26. I still need to work on isolating it from whence it came, just looking for hints.
17:16:57 <stassats> just (cl-store:store 26 "file")?
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17:18:28 <lmj`> No, it's part of a test suite. Threads are involved -- I looked through cl-store and its setf-gethash calls seemed to reference dynamically bound variables, which are safe. But there could be some lingering thread-safety issue.
17:19:01 <pkhuong> that code looks like it could croak on conurrent class redefinition.
17:19:31 <lmj`> But on the other hand, it's very sbcl-dependent and randomly dependent on loading
17:20:30 <lmj`> Well, all sbcl-dependent; I haven't seen anything similar with other implementations.
17:20:40 <lmj`> (Or any problem at all.)
17:24:07 <lmj`> is the "FIXME & KLUDGE" note in classoid-typep possibly related or not?
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17:25:55 <stassats> are you redefining classes?
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17:26:13 <lmj`> stassats: nope
17:28:43 <lmj`> It's always triggered after compiling, and sometimes triggered after loading fasls.
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17:30:27 <univyrse> hey quick question about binary search trees
17:31:09 <univyrse> do the nodes need to be connected both ways? if I have a node with a value of 4 whose :r is 5, does the 5's :l need to be 4?
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17:33:02 <pkhuong> univyrse: No, because then you would have a list; there may be a parent pointer though. This really isn't the right forum, I suggest you look for more details in a book or by asking a TA if you're in college.
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17:35:12 <pnpuff> univyrse: if you want try to ask on #algorithms or in #math for a theoretical point of view (:
17:35:28 <lmj`> I should have mentioned this eariler -- I'm serializing to a binary socket stream. Lots of isolation work ahead.
17:36:38 <univyrse> I mean, I've coded the example, I was just asking from a conceptual standpoint
17:37:10 <univyrse> thank you pkhuong for your insight, and sorry pnpuff, will do next time
17:38:04 <pnpuff> univyrse: you're welcome! and ... there are a lot of good books online!
17:38:46 <univyrse> yeah, I'm a huge PG fan, working my way through ANSI Common Lisp and I didn't know if my implementation was correct or not, he doesn
17:38:57 <univyrse> he doesn't explain how the tree actually is supposed to work
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17:42:38 <bhyde> i'm using a fixnum to represent a set (members of the set have indexes, 1/0 bits indicate if a member is in the set)  does anybody know of some setf methods for bit toggling in integers  a use might look like:   (setf (bit-set my-set (index member)) t)   i'd rather not dust off my rusty setf method authoring skills
17:43:25 <stassats> (setf (ldb (byte 1 index) integer) 1)
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17:44:57 <stassats> or (dpb 1 (byte 1 index) integer)
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17:45:13 <bhyde> 1 is not a T  :)
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17:46:05 <pkhuong> (setf logbitp) may or may not be provided as an implementation-specific extension.
17:48:55 <bhyde> i have a lot of (setf (ldb (byte 1 index) integer) 1) style at this instant; but     (defmacro bit-set (set index) (once-only (set index) `(ldb (byte 1 ,index) ,set)) illustrates how the set wishes it was first in the accuser  (same issue with logbitp) 
17:49:15 <bhyde> accuser -> accessor
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17:50:39 <stassats> why are you using a macro?
17:50:57 <stassats> i didn't catch the bit about being the first
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17:52:48 <bhyde> "first"  it's a matter of taste I guess; but i'm in the camp that finds it unnatural the the key comes first in gethash
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17:53:23 <stassats> i don't understand what you're talking about
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17:55:32 <bhyde> i find it odd (vestigial?) that it's (gethash <key> <table>)  rather than (gethash <table> <key>), since I think if you have an accessor on a data structure the data structure ought to be the first argument, not some random argument in the middle.
17:55:44 <stassats> what does it have to do with ldb?
17:56:27 <bhyde> ldb has the same issue; the data structure is the integer; and the key/index/parameter is the first argument
17:56:53 <bhyde> so if you build on top of that the underlying representation leaks; unless you do something to swap the arg order
17:56:58 <stassats> can't you find something real to complain about?
17:57:09 <bhyde> nevermind then
17:57:10 <bhyde> n
17:57:57 <pkhuong> 10 minutes to flip argument orders?
17:58:28 <stassats> and you can define a function which has whatever argument order you want, i didn't catch what you were talking about leaking
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18:04:22 <pnpuff> stassats: leakage was an interesting argument even if OT. :(
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18:34:10 <Fare> I broke something subtle in the traversal of asdf, and have no idea what / how.
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18:37:31 <Fare> sometimes, actions that clearly have depends-on appear out of order in first position (?)
18:37:48 <Fare> I see no nconc in my code, so that's not it.
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18:44:14 <stassats> sort?
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18:49:18 <Fare> Nope, more subtle. Found it.
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18:50:14 <Fare> I had removed the dependency from load-op to prepare-op, because load-op depends on compile-op which depends on prepare-op
18:50:32 <Fare> MISTAKE: compile-op is not needed-in-image-p, so that didn't work.
18:50:51 <stassats> i'm not sure that this reify-deferred-warnings stuff is good
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18:51:00 <stassats> it uses internal symbols
18:51:24 <Posterdati> hi
18:51:58 <Fare> stassats, and how do you do it otherwise?
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18:52:08 <Posterdati> please I need help with gsll:read-vector-from-string
18:52:13 <Fare> I'll migrate to supported interfaces when there are any
18:52:27 <stassats> Fare: what problem does it fix, again?
18:54:20 -!- linse [~marioooh@18.38.7.220] has quit [Quit: zzzz]
18:54:46 <Fare> what problem does WHAT fix?
18:54:53 <Fare> the deferred warnings handling?
18:55:15 <Fare> making sure that missing functions are reported
18:55:15 <stassats> is that what i were talking about? then yes
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18:55:37 <Fare> say file "a" calls missing function foo
18:55:43 <stassats> but anyway, asdf is full of ::, so i guess it doesn't matter
18:55:58 <Fare> you compile once, you get a warning at the end. oops.
18:56:10 <Fare> now you modify things, but you're still missing foo
18:56:16 <Fare> you recompile... no warning!
18:56:39 <Fare> that's clearly wrong
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18:56:49 <stassats> when you recompile the file "a"?
18:58:11 <stassats> it signals a style-warning each time it's compiled
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18:59:31 <stassats> well, this saving warnings into another file is utterly bizarre
19:01:20 <kennyd> otepad
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19:02:32 <coleman-> hello. would real currying be possible in CL?  (curry uncurried-function) => curried-function
19:02:39 <stassats> i don't think that people would expect for a file which was not compiled to signal any warnings
19:03:02 <coleman-> it would obviously only work with functions that have fixed number of arguments
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19:03:57 <stassats> coleman-: why do you want currying?
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19:04:49 <madnificent> coleman-: you may like alexandria's curry function
19:04:52 <coleman-> I am curious if it's possible
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19:05:26 <stassats> there's no portable way to get the number of arguments a function takes
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19:05:42 <stassats> (and the alexandria's curry does not perform currying)
19:05:46 <coleman-> madnificent alexandria:curry is not named correctly, there was a discussion about that. it should have been named partial-application
19:06:02 <madnificent> coleman-: true, i thought you hadn't found it yet
19:06:39 <stassats> i guess people confuse currying and partial application, because it looks the same in Haskell, since everything is curried anyway
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19:08:37 <stassats> or in ML
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19:09:23 <madnificent> stassats: and the order of the arguments is the same in lisp as in haskell, which hints at the same thing.  but it is, indeed, different.  i still like the name alexandria gave it though, it's short and hints at the intended use.
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19:10:04 <stassats> well, curry is the most arbitrary name you could imagine
19:10:16 <stassats> if you don't know what it is, it won't hint you at anything
19:10:25 <stassats> maybe to some indian cuisine
19:11:45 <stassats> partial application, on the other hand, can be guessed more easily
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19:12:42 <stassats> well, but i find either to be useless, because nothing beats the clarity of (lambda (x) (+ y x))
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19:13:55 <Odin-> Q: Currying is partial application of all arguments, no?
19:14:01 <Odin-> Or is there a deeper difference?
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19:14:31 <stassats> currying returns a function, which in turn another function, and so on for all arguments
19:14:34 <Bike> Odin-: partial application of all arguments is application.
19:14:43 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
19:14:52 <stassats> in turn returns
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19:15:32 <Odin-> stassats: Whereas partial application returns a function that returns a result?
19:15:50 <stassats> yes
19:16:33 <stassats> i guess if it were called "schönfinkeling" and not "currying", people wouldn't confuse the matters
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19:18:13 <ehu> so, where's the curry?
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19:22:51 <Fare> how do I get the cwd in abcl?
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19:23:28 <francogrex> anyone uses (or has used) the oracle interface of clsql ?
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19:27:03 <Fare> or in gcl?
19:27:10 <stassats> (jstatic "getProperty" "java.lang.System" "user.dir") seems to work
19:29:18 <stassats> is anybody still using gcl?
19:32:42 <francogrex> archaeologist
19:32:50 <prxq> i would be surprised if not. There are still people using golden common lisp.
19:32:58 <Posterdati> please help, what is the emacs key command to show lisp source for a function? Thanks
19:33:09 <p_l> M-.
19:33:12 <p_l> at least in slime
19:33:21 <Posterdati> p_l: yes slime
19:33:49 <p_l> then yes, M-. with properly configured slime (slime-fancy is enough)
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19:34:02 <stassats> slime-fancy isn't needed for M-. to work
19:34:28 <p_l> stassats: I don't remember which feature enabled it
19:34:41 <p_l> got my slime working long time ago, didn't have to fix it since then
19:34:44 <stassats> slime is that feature
19:34:47 <oGMo> that's not a core feature?
19:34:52 <oGMo> ah
19:34:55 <p_l> is it core? ah
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19:38:25 <prxq> I get the impression that gcl was assimilated by acl2
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19:40:21 <Posterdati> prxq: it seems that acl2 is not a complete common lisp incarnation
19:40:27 <madnificent> stassats: given some prior knowledge about computer sciences, i'd guess you should have encountered the name beforehand.  plus, it's used in the same incorrect form in many libraries for other languages.  given that it didn't have an intrinsic meaning, one could argue that the current meaning is just what alexandria offers.
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19:48:37 <prxq> there are commits from a few days ago on gcl. It seems alive.
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19:52:53 <p_l> ... zombie!!!
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19:56:49 <merlin_> can someone recommend me a parsing library?
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20:03:01 <madnificent> merlin_: what do you want to parse?
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20:10:16 <merlin_> madnificent: a simple lisp-like language, sufficiently different than CL that I cant use cl:read-from-string
20:10:43 <merlin_> I guess it wouldnt be too hard to parse it manually
20:11:56 <pjb>   merlin_: actually, it would have to be VERY different from CL that you couldn't use cl:read!
20:12:06 <pjb> reader macros are very flexible.
20:12:10 <Bike> merlin_: smug is supposed to be good.
20:12:13 <Bike> or cl-yacc.
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20:13:13 <dim> http://www.cliki.net/parser%20generator
20:13:37 <dim> I'm using cl-yacc in a project where people here are proposing me to evaluate smug instead and then be happy about it :)
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20:18:38 <merlin_> thanks for suggestions everyone
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20:49:48 <Fare> merlin: if you review existing solutions, I'm interested in your experience.
20:50:12 <Fare> ok, enough with ASDF
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21:03:42 <fe[nl]ix> Fare: ping
21:05:15 <Fare> pong
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21:05:38 <Fare> where are you saving me from CL pathnames?
21:05:54 <Fare> I wish iolib could have been asdf-driver.
21:05:56 <Fare> anyway
21:05:56 <fe[nl]ix> how do I specify the external format of a system, again ?
21:06:38 <fe[nl]ix> Fare: not unless iolib gets included in the CL implementation :)
21:06:41 <Fare> :encoding :utf-8
21:06:53 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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21:07:17 <Fare> well, how widely installed is libfixposix, anyway?
21:07:23 <Fare> is there a solution for windows?
21:08:47 <fe[nl]ix> not yet
21:08:56 <Fare> xcvb is in shambles. Won't compile. asdf did that to it.
21:09:03 <Fare> see?
21:09:11 <Fare> it's time for a new common lisp.
21:10:01 <fe[nl]ix> Fare: http://paste.lisp.org/+2VYZ
21:10:11 <fe[nl]ix> is that expected ?
21:10:44 <Fare> looks like it's a bootstrap issue between old and new sbcl
21:10:49 <Fare> new asdf
21:10:50 <Fare> I mean
21:10:58 <Fare> how did you load asdf?
21:11:20 <fe[nl]ix> asdf:load-system :asdf
21:11:24 <Fare> if an old asdf loaded itself, it won't have created that output file
21:11:34 <fe[nl]ix> that's the case
21:11:44 <Fare> I suppose I could special-case that
21:11:52 <Fare> or ignore the issue until everyone has a new asdf.
21:11:53 <Fare> meh
21:12:00 <fe[nl]ix> don't bother
21:12:06 <fe[nl]ix> it doesn't seem to cause any harm
21:12:25 <Fare> I'll special case it
21:12:36 <Fare> there's already a case for sbcl builtin systems.
21:13:28 -!- zajn [~zajn@129.8.204.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:13:28 <Fare> nice catch
21:13:38 <fe[nl]ix> one interesting side effect of deferring warnings it that it breaks swank-asdf.lisp
21:14:15 <fe[nl]ix> in (asdefs "2.016" ...) there's a call to asdf::pathname-directory-pathname which no longer exists
21:14:59 <fe[nl]ix> and now ASDF tries to recompile that file every time and breaks
21:15:16 <Fare> no longer exists?
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21:15:32 <prxq> Fare: it seems you managed to compile the last GCL release. Was it a lot of work?
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21:15:38 <Fare> yes it does
21:15:48 <Fare> but something might have happened to that symbol. sigh.
21:16:11 <Fare> prxq, no, I just ran the antique version present on my ubuntu
21:16:14 Joreji [~thomas@72-228.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp
21:16:22 <Fare> I haven't been able to compile gcl in years -- have you?
21:16:35 <Fare> and the gcl-devel guys haven't replied to me in years, either
21:16:42 <fe[nl]ix> hmm
21:16:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.192.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
21:17:17 <Fare> as far as I'm concerned, GCL is dead, and my spending any time on it is masochism.
21:17:21 <fe[nl]ix> my bad, that was fixed in the latest slime
21:17:23 <prxq> Fare: no, I haven't. I noticed that they seem to actively ignore you.
21:17:27 <fe[nl]ix> I'll update
21:17:38 <Fare> do you use GCL?
21:17:41 <prxq> no
21:17:52 <Fare> and yes, swank-asdf needs some love.
21:17:53 <prxq> i was just curious and realized that there are recent commits
21:18:06 <Fare> in their tree?
21:18:12 <prxq> yes
21:18:16 <Fare> crazy
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21:19:23 <prxq> Fare: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.gcl.cvs/11551/
21:20:53 <Fare> fe[nl]ix, pushed
21:21:01 <fe[nl]ix> thanks
21:21:21 <Fare> maybe they actively don't want users
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21:21:39 <Bike> "this implementation is dead!  save yourself!"
21:21:44 <Fare> I mean, having asdf support their implementation would mean plenty of code becoming available
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21:23:18 <lmj`> pkhuong: here is a repro for that AVER http://paste.lisp.org/display/134751
21:23:26 <Fare> prxq: but YES, it was a lot of work supporting GCL.
21:23:38 <Fare> And let's not even discuss pathname support
21:23:45 *prxq* shudders
21:24:02 <Fare> their idea of a wildcard pathname is to system ("ls") and read the results unescaped.
21:24:30 reckler [~reckler@ppp118-208-135-29.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp
21:24:41 <fe[nl]ix> Fare: I updated slime and asdf, now I get this from swank-asdf: (ASDF/COMPONENT:VERSION-SATISFIES (ASDF/UPGRADE:ASDF-VERSION) "2.000") => WARNING: PARSE-VERSION: "2.000" contains leading zeros
21:24:56 <Fare> fe[nl]ix, as I said, swank-asdf needs a lot of love.
21:25:09 <Fare> how old an asdf should I support in it?
21:25:09 <lmj`> pkhuong: the interesting part is that the identical object (according to EQ) passes the type check beforehand, but not afterward
21:25:25 <francogrex> how to declare a type so that it fits into #<TN t1[AX]> WORD (not DWORD) register?
21:26:25 <fe[nl]ix> Fare: whatever quicklisp had 3 months before the time of the commit
21:26:39 <fe[nl]ix> 3 months to be a little conservative
21:26:59 <fe[nl]ix> you could go for current quicklisp release too :)
21:27:03 <Fare> so, 2.014.6
21:27:10 <Fare> that would be 2.26
21:27:18 <Fare> let's say nothing beyond 2.014.6
21:27:28 <fe[nl]ix> ok
21:27:30 <Fare> except that... clisp ships with 2.011
21:27:32 <Fare> GRRRRRRRRRR
21:27:37 <pkhuong> lmj`: I'm not going to dive in cl-store's sources to understand what's going on
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21:27:48 <Fare> ok, so let's say 2.011
21:27:53 <Bike> francogrex: sb-ext:word?
21:30:38 <lmj`> pkhuong: yes there is more whittling to do; the point is that we have an object which is changing types without change-class.
21:31:24 <fe[nl]ix> Fare: qu'ils mangent de la brioche^W^W^W^Wmettent ā jour asdf
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21:37:06 <fe[nl]ix> I think one problem with the current warning deferral is that even if I select the ACCEPT restart, the next time I load the same system ASDF tries to recompile the offending file
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21:45:28 <Fare> meh, I think I'll deprecate 2.011 too -- too hard to support behind 2.014.6
21:46:30 <Fare> I say fuck CLISP
21:47:38 m104 [~m104@c-98-207-238-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp
21:48:28 <Fare> how do you propose it behave?
21:48:43 <Fare> and how would you implement it?
21:48:55 <Fare> have you accept things one by one?
21:49:27 <Fare> I say -- use muffling
21:49:35 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@outbound.terrawi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
21:50:55 <fe[nl]ix> If I choose ACCEPT, asdf should act as if the warning had not occurred
21:52:00 <fe[nl]ix> after selecting that restart, it prints compiling #<NO-LOAD-FILE "swank" "contrib" "swank-asdf"> completed without its output file #P"/home/hechee/.cache/common-lisp/sbcl-1.1.3-linux-x64/src/slime-pkg/swank.2013-01-19-22:20:53/contrib/swank-asdf.fasl"
22:01:12 <pjb> But also, couldn't you write asdf right the first time? Why does it need constant fixes?
22:01:33 <Bike> I thought that was the point of xcvb.
22:01:49 <pjb> How many lispers prefer cathedrals to bazars?
22:02:24 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp
22:03:04 <pjb> Unless of course, it's a marketing operation, to show rubyist and pythonistas that lisp is also a moving target they may run after.
22:04:40 <fe[nl]ix> pjb: is this because Fare offended your beloved clisp ?
22:04:47 <pjb> Yes :-)
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22:09:27 <Fare> are you on the slime mailing list?
22:09:34 <Fare> I'm sending a patch to swank-asdf there
22:10:00 <fe[nl]ix> yes, I'm on it
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22:10:15 <lmj`> pkhuong: I couldn't reproduce (yet) without cl-store. Are you saying that cl-store could bring about the situation where (typep x 'foo) => T, and later (typep x 'foo) => NIL when the old x is EQ to the new x, and there is no change-class?
22:10:37 <lmj`> forgetting about cl-store, that can't happen, right?
22:11:42 <univyrse> i didnt know people still used clisp
22:12:08 <Bike> I think you could have like (let ((foo (cons 'a 4))) (print (typep foo '(cons symbol)) (setf (car foo) 9)) (typep foo '(cons integer)))
22:12:15 <fe[nl]ix> Fare: when do you plan to release 2.27 ?
22:13:45 <pkhuong> lmj`: this isn't about changing an object's class, but somehow changing the class itself.
22:14:30 <lmj`> yeah change-class isn't relevant
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22:16:15 <lmj`> I suppose the next step is to remove asdf from the picture
22:16:45 <lmj`> Quite puzzling indeed
22:17:24 <Fare> fe[nl]ix, any time soon now.
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22:17:29 <Fare> should run tests.
22:18:05 <Fare> I have run out of things on my to-do list for asdf
22:18:20 <Fare> except run tests and make sure it damn works.
22:19:06 <Fare> no-load-file ???
22:20:12 <fe[nl]ix> Fare: where did you see that ?
22:20:31 <Fare> in your error message above.
22:20:34 <Fare> anyway, patch sent.
22:20:47 <fe[nl]ix> btw, the latest version passes all tests on sbcl and ccl
22:20:52 -!- davidbrenneman [davidbrenn@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:7b28] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
22:21:19 <fe[nl]ix> Fare: I might be doing something that's not really supported on the latest ASDF
22:22:00 <LiamH> Right, if it's too thick under her, she won't feel the heat from the floor.
22:22:05 <Fare> I already knew that, but yay :)
22:22:12 <fe[nl]ix> Fare: like using ASDF to compile the CL contribs, without changing swank that still uses its own swank-require to load the contribs
22:22:12 <LiamH> oops, wront tab
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22:22:39 <Fare> why can't swank just adopt asdf?
22:22:50 <fe[nl]ix> because the owner doesn't like ASDF
22:22:58 -!- cross [cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
22:23:04 <Fare> I mean, every lisp implementation but gcl and scl has adopted asdf long ago
22:23:08 <Fare> and I mean, asdf 2
22:23:23 <fe[nl]ix> sort of
22:23:24 <Fare> and even scl, it's just because they haven't released in ages -- but the author supports asdf.
22:23:32 <fe[nl]ix> heller uses cmucl without asdf
22:23:36 <Fare> (require "asdf") works everywhere.
22:23:40 <lmj`> pkhuong: in any case you expect it to be some kind of quirk with loading or compiling, and not about cl-store itself, right? I'm trying to assess my next step.
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22:25:19 <fe[nl]ix> Fare: http://common-lisp.net/~sionescu/misc/swank.asd
22:25:41 <pkhuong> lmj`: yeah.
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22:28:08 <pkhuong> ls
22:28:22 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp
22:28:32 <lmj`> pkhuong: ok thanks
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22:35:36 <Fare> I once wrote a proper swank.asd, but there's no point maintaining it if the maintainers won't accept it
22:35:40 <Fare> least you fork slime
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22:40:10 <fe[nl]ix> Fare: your patch removes the definition of *wild-file* which is still used in defun directory-files below
22:40:36 <Fare> oh, so I need prefix the latter one with asdf:: ?
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22:41:28 <fe[nl]ix> yes, that works
22:41:33 <Fare> oops, sorry
22:41:48 <fe[nl]ix> that does it, swank-asdf compiler cleanly
22:41:56 <fe[nl]ix> do you still have that swank.asd ?
22:42:14 <fe[nl]ix> I'd use it if it's better than the one I came up with
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22:44:32 <Fare> I deleted it years ago
22:44:42 <Fare> send me yours, I'll comment on improvements.
22:44:49 <Fare> I was pretty straightforward.
22:45:08 <fe[nl]ix> Fare: http://common-lisp.net/~sionescu/misc/swank.asd
22:46:05 <Fare> also if you egrep -i 'swank|slime' * in asdf/ you'll find scary shit.
22:46:39 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp
22:46:40 <fe[nl]ix> that swank.asd goes with http://common-lisp.net/~sionescu/misc/51-gentoo-module-load.patch
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22:47:41 <Fare> in 2.27, you can put several defsystem's in a file and name them foo foo/bar foo/quux etc
22:49:02 <fe[nl]ix> so in foo.asd you can have defsystem foo and defsystem foo/bar or just defsystem bar ?
22:49:38 <Fare> defsystem foo, defsystem foo/bar
22:49:41 <fe[nl]ix> that's awesome
22:49:47 <Fare> I recommend against defsystem bar in foo
22:49:57 <fe[nl]ix> I can put everything into iolib.asd
22:50:01 <Fare> that said, things may not work so great on an old asdf.
22:50:14 <fe[nl]ix> that's not a problem
22:50:17 <Fare> I'd check whether it works on an old asdf before using it.
22:50:40 <fe[nl]ix> I already have an asdf-2.27 branch
22:50:54 <fe[nl]ix> as soon as you release it I'll make everything 2.27-only
22:51:00 <Fare> looks like it should work, but what do I know?
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22:51:38 <fe[nl]ix> I'll try it tomorrow, so don't release before that :)
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22:52:30 <fe[nl]ix> when I asked you to take a look at the ASDF stuff in iolib you said something about operation-done-p methods being superfluous now
22:52:35 <fe[nl]ix> can you elaborate on that ?
22:55:04 <Fare> looks like these names work in asdf 2.26 -- though obviously asdf 2.26 is too dumb to find the system automatically by name if you didn't load the main one first.
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22:55:18 <Fare> operation-done-p is already nil for test-op
22:55:27 <Fare> and has always been
22:55:29 <fe[nl]ix> ok
22:55:40 <fe[nl]ix> I must have copied that from somewhere
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22:56:02 <Fare> will always be until test-op improves, if it ever does, at which point any manual override will be detrimental.
22:56:56 <fe[nl]ix> in defun asdf-operation there's an unqualified use of find-symbol*
22:57:20 <Fare> how is a no-load file differnt from a static file?
22:57:31 <fe[nl]ix> it gets compiled
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22:58:03 <Fare> can you debug that? have to look at all the overrides I deleted. Sigh.
22:58:05 <Fare> I gotta go
22:58:07 <Fare> ttyl
22:58:26 <fe[nl]ix> needs an asdf::
22:58:35 <Fare> any override I deleted needs an asdf:: when referred to
22:58:38 <Fare> bye
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22:58:52 <fe[nl]ix> ok
22:58:57 <prxq> gcl from cvs builds and compiles with only a little help
22:59:07 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-mkfjlwfrlvnljnto] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:59:35 <prxq> well, builds.
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23:01:21 <prxq> and seems to work
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