00:05:53 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:06:05 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:10:37 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 00:10:55 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:59 i always forget, which section of clhs prohibis (type-of 3) => fixnum? 00:12:13 hmmm... is there a difference between (defun (setf fun) ...) and (defsetf fun ...)? 00:12:13 robot-beethoven, memo from pjb: you could use (setf (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.file:sexp-file-contents "file.sexp") (setf list (modify-list list))) 00:12:18 i thought type-of had all the restrictions? besides "no compound function types" and so on 00:12:46 well, (type-of -3) => fixnum is allowed 00:13:21 robot-beethoven: i think defsetf is only required to establish a setf expansion, not necessarily a function named (setf fun) 00:13:40 robot-beethoven: there's a difference. 00:14:18 <|3b|> stassats: subtype of both fixnum and unsigned-byte? 00:14:24 <|3b|> *it must be a 00:14:28 For example, with (defstruct mystructure slot) you can use (setf (mystructure-slot struct) 42), but there's probably (fdefinition '(setf mystructure-slot)). 00:14:55 |3b|: something like that, yeah, but i need a link 00:15:08 <|3b|> clhs type-of 00:15:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_tp_of.htm 00:15:11 <|3b|> first entry 00:15:41 ebobby [~fms@200.52.182.193] has joined #lisp 00:15:51 implementations return (INTEGER min max) for (type-of 3), but they could as well return fixnum, it's not forbidden AFAIK. 00:15:59 <|3b|> and http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/04_bc.htm#standardizedatomictypespecs if you need to verify fixnum and unsigned-byte are 'built-in types' 00:16:16 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:18 <|3b|> pjb: fixnum isn't a subtype of unsigned-byte 00:16:36 <|3b|> and 3 is an unsigned-byte 00:16:48 oh, wow, that's very tricky. 00:16:56 Why should it be a subtype of unsigned-byte? 00:17:05 |3b|: right, thanks 00:17:05 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:17:10 <|3b|> "a. the type returned is a recognizable subtype of that built-in type. " 00:17:13 because type-of an instance of a built-in type has to be a subtype of that built in type 00:17:24 and 3 is of type unsigned-byte. 00:17:38 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:47 No, the reason is 3. The type returned by type-of is always a recognizable subtype of the class returned by class-of. 00:17:47 00:18:14 There's a preference for system classes, and fixnum is not while integer is. Even unsigned-byte would be bad. 00:19:00 -!- luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-141.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 00:19:02 I like how EQL/MEMBER types are forbidden, but (INTEGER 3 3) is OK. 00:19:13 But it's just a preference, fixnum or unsigned-byte would still be valid. 00:19:21 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:22 ecl returns (integer 3 3), the problem being consing 00:19:25 luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-141.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:25 -!- luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-141.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:19:29 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:19:35 PUSH is to CONS, as ??? is to REMOVE 00:19:38 <|3b|> pjb: neither would satisfy 1. though 00:19:41 Notice the example for (type-of '(1 . 2)) for example. 00:19:44 robot-beethoven: POP 00:19:49 not really, though 00:19:55 <|3b|> since 3 is an element of both fixnum and unsigned-byte types, and neither is a subtype of the other 00:20:10 (define-modify-macro removef ...) 00:20:22 -!- ebobby [~fms@200.52.182.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:20:36 (subtypep 'fixnum 'integer) therefore (subtype 'fixnum (class-of 3)) and since (typep 3 'fixnum) then (type-of 3) --> fixnum would be ok. 00:21:08 <|3b|> pjb: unsigned-byte is a 'bulit-in type', 3 is an unsigned byte, so 1.a applies 00:21:24 fixnum is a built-in type, 3 is a fixnum, so 1.a applies. 00:21:32 <|3b|> exactly 00:21:33 |3b| you're confusing => with <=. 00:21:36 <|3b|> so neither of those can be used 00:21:41 -!- zolk3ri1 [~Zol1ka@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:21:42 Both can be used. 00:21:59 Both unsigned-byte and fixnum are valid results for (type-of 3). 00:22:06 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 00:22:07 <|3b|> so you are saying fixnum is a recognizable subtype of unsigned-byte? 00:22:09 neither can be used, since the returned type has to be a recognizable subtype of both 00:22:28 timau [~timau@95.168.101.234] has joined #lisp 00:22:32 No, I'm saying that fixnum is a recognizable subtype of integer, but you're right. 00:22:56 type-of seems like a pretty confused idea all around 00:23:07 Bike: I don't see how. 00:23:48 things like the preceding conversation? 00:24:00 Bike: it's not confusing. pjb is confused. 00:24:00 <|3b|> thats about the implementation of it, not the idea 00:24:16 I guess the standard body didn't feel like making sure the built-in types formed a semi-lattice under AND. 00:24:16 pkhuong: not anymore. Thanks. 00:24:18 (list (subtypep (type-of 2) 'unsigned-byte) (typep 2 'unsigned-byte)) should both return T 00:24:25 that makes sense 00:24:30 adelgado1 [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:30 -!- adelgado1 [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:26:11 teslalamp [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 00:27:21 ebobby [~fms@200.52.182.193] has joined #lisp 00:27:26 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 00:28:17 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:28:48 I guess nobody took the trouble of seeing what that semi-lattice looked like. Otherwise, they'd have seen NIL arrays. 00:30:05 it's not a lattice proper? 00:30:41 Or they didn't to let implementations vary it. 00:31:19 Bike: sure, with AND and OR types. But there are more requirements on the intersection of types. 00:31:26 (defun type-of (x) (class-of x)) seems conforming. 00:31:43 pkhuong: i don't get it. 00:32:43 -!- teslalamp [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:35:11 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-159-117.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36:16 You just saw an issue with the intersection of fixnum and unsigned-byte. Similarly for the intersection of bit and base-char or character. 00:36:27 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:36:50 pjb: but the implementations are encouraged to return portable values 00:36:58 it's just NIL, isn't it? 00:36:59 with lisp's type-system something called "type-of" seems ambiguous anyway 00:37:21 that means NIL array is a string! 00:37:45 i get that nil arrays are bizarre/bad/exist, i'm just wondering about the semilattice bit 00:37:48 And NIL arrays must exist because both bit vectors and character vectors are specified to exist. 00:37:55 -!- agumonkey [~agu@211.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:38:39 pkhuong: why do nil arrays have to exist just because bit-vectors and character vectors exist? because of (and)? 00:38:50 to close the lattice. 00:39:01 nil arrays are the intersection of all the array types. 00:39:37 pjb: that doesn't mean they need to exist; it's perfectly possible for nothing to satisfy (and bit-vector string) 00:40:01 (and (vector integer) string) = (and (vector integer) (vector character)) = (vector (and integer character)) = (vector nil). 00:40:20 jasom: but then the language would be incomplete. 00:40:24 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.21] has joined #lisp 00:40:51 pjb: can you show some code that would be required for the spec to generate something of type (vector nil)? 00:41:00 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:42:44 jasom: "A type is always a subtype of its upgraded array element type. Also, if a type Tx is a subtype of another type Ty, then the upgraded array element type of Tx must be a subtype of the upgraded array element type of Ty." so you can't have (u-a-e-t nil) just equal T (unless you have everything upgrade to T, which is inefficient) 00:43:29 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:46 jasom: (typep (make-array 0 :element-type nil) '(vector nil)) 00:44:21 Bike: you can't have everything upgrade to T because the spec mandates the existence of bit, base-char, and character vectors. 00:44:37 I would expect (list (subtypep (quote (vector nil)) (quote string)) (subtypep (quote (vector nil)) (quote (vector integer))) (typep (make-array 0 :element-type nil) (quote string)) (typep (make-array 0 :element-type nil) (quote (vector integer)))) to return all non nil, but not a single implementation is able to do it. 00:44:41 pkhuong: (u-a-e-t 'string) can be t 00:44:47 oh, yes. hopefully my point isn't insane, still 00:44:56 can't it? 00:45:06 jasom: yes. 00:45:07 The point of STRING here, is that printing rules say that (make-array 0 :element-type nil) must print as "". 00:45:15 I don't see how that's relevant. 00:45:21 jasom: uaet of character is character, though, is that what you mean? 00:45:41 but it's not more a subtype of string than it is of (vector integer) or (array pathname *) 00:45:43 er, right, I was using uaet wrong 00:45:45 hm, type-of still conses on arrays 00:46:00 Bah! 00:46:31 is there any other reason to return (integer 0 m-p-f) instead of (integer 3 3), save for consing? 00:47:30 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:47:46 wouldn't it better to just return INTEGER? 00:47:46 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:48:01 why not T? 00:48:13 Because of class-of 00:48:16 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:32 (class-of 1) => # 00:48:41 so, integer doesn't cut it here too 00:48:43 This is not a standard class. 00:48:52 it doesn't need to be 00:48:56 a standard built-in class I mean. 00:49:27 But that explains why sbcl returns (integer 3 3). 00:49:39 sbcl doesn't do that 00:49:57 If you define specific built-in classes, then type-of must be more complex. 00:50:31 *|3b|* notes that the examples for type-of say a positive integer could be fixnum 00:50:46 <|3b|> or integer 00:50:47 examples are not a part of the specification 00:51:08 |3b|: like I said, nobody looked at the semi lattice (: 00:51:09 <|3b|> right, which is why i just noted it rather than suggesting it invalidated earlier discussion 00:51:46 alright, notes aren't too! 00:51:48 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-092-078-126-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 00:53:19 wait, wait, why can't u-a-e-t of nil be nil? nil is a subtype of every type, so that satisfies all the rules, doesn't it? 00:53:50 *|3b|* thought the point was that it has to be nil 00:54:10 <|3b|> since it is a subtype of disjoint types that are required to have specialized array types 00:54:23 so what's the problem with it being nil? 00:54:25 <|3b|> so it can't upgrade to any of them 00:54:40 <|3b|> no problem, just that being a subtype of character also makes those arrays strings 00:54:51 <|3b|> and you can't store anything in arrays of element type NIL 00:55:09 also we have to add code to suppose those. 00:55:11 <|3b|> so they are rather pointless, but are indirectly required by the spec to be implemented anyway 00:55:24 does the spec require (make-array :element-type nil) to work? 00:55:29 but you can have (make-array 0 :element-type nil) => "" 00:55:37 jasom: yes. 00:56:11 -!- stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:57:26 -!- snits [~snits@174-17-112-107.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:58:18 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:59:11 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc05-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 01:00:11 pkhuong: that seems like a perverse reading ot 15.1.2.2 01:00:51 i guess consing on type-of is not a big deal, except that ECL is calling type-of on TYPEP when used with defype or compound types 01:00:52 I don't see how there can be ambiguity. If the reading is perverse, any other is incorrect. 01:01:04 clhs 15.1.2.2 01:01:04 Required Kinds of Specialized Arrays: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/15_abb.htm 01:01:47 meh if I were implementing a lisp I would disallow arrays of element type nil 01:01:55 and call the problem solved 01:02:51 what about PROG2? 01:02:58 <|3b|> hmm, should BIT-AND and similar work on NIL arrays? 01:03:12 <|3b|> nevermind, BIT arrays don't include subtypes 01:03:15 *|3b|* can't read 01:03:51 though what sbcl does seems sane; you can't have non-zero sized arrays of element type nil 01:04:01 you can 01:04:07 you can't access them 01:05:27 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 01:05:51 hmm clisp can even print them 01:06:23 lispworks and allegro have it easy, they just return FIXNUM for (type-of 3), don't care about NIL arrays being strings 01:06:25 etc. 01:06:39 <|3b|> interesting style-warning "; The default initial element #:MU is not a NIL." 01:07:10 there's a semi-snarky comment in the sbcl source about that #:mu, I think 01:07:12 *jasom* still can't understand how you could have an array of something that isn't an object 01:07:29 *|3b|* wonders why it only complains for 0 or 1 dimensional arrays 01:07:35 it's an array of no objects 01:08:03 array n. an object of type array, which serves as a container for other objects arranged in a Cartesian coordinate system. 01:08:17 |3b|: any-dimensional here 01:08:21 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:08:55 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 01:08:59 <|3b|> stassats: hmm, maybe list vs ' on the dimensions? 01:09:24 <|3b|> (list) or (list 1 2 3) doesn't warn, nil, '(1 2 3) or (list 1) warns 01:09:26 list causes it not become inlined/transformed 01:09:45 *|3b|* supposes that makes sense 01:11:17 i imagine lengthy discussions arise each time nil arrays are brought up 01:11:29 perhaps somebody should summarize the points and archive it somewhere 01:11:45 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.175.37] has joined #lisp 01:13:24 hsc [~hsc@c-24-18-240-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:40 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:14:53 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 01:15:55 -!- pjb-v [~t@88.198.62.69] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:07 pjb-v [~t@88.198.62.69] has joined #lisp 01:19:53 oh wait, if you put 0 and 1 in the type extended-char it solves the problem (for some definitions of solve) because then bit-vectors are also strings 01:20:11 -!- ebobby [~fms@200.52.182.193] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:20:51 i don't think it's permitted for bit to be a subtype of extended-char? 01:21:19 well, number has to be disjoint from character 01:21:22 jasom: number and character are disjoint types. 01:21:32 that would be even more silly than returning strings for nil-arrays 01:21:43 darn 01:22:07 -!- pjb-v [~t@88.198.62.69] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:23:00 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-5f730a48.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:23:06 pjb-v [~t@voyager.informatimago.com] has joined #lisp 01:24:23 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:27:05 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:29:50 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:31:13 -!- Yuuhi```` [benni@p5483A126.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:34:25 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:34:54 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:35:50 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-76-21-0-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 01:36:10 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 01:36:46 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:38:28 -!- pjb-v [~t@voyager.informatimago.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:39:32 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 01:40:32 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:41:21 pjb-v [~t@voyager.informatimago.com] has joined #lisp 01:41:26 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:47:06 what's wrong with a nil-array being a string? 01:47:15 lol 01:47:24 nothing, it's just silly 01:47:36 can a nil-array have more than zero element, if they are unfilled? 01:47:53 -!- Longlius [~Longlius@68.170.238.146] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 01:48:05 Longlius [~Longlius@68.170.238.146] has joined #lisp 01:48:13 sure, make-array is not required to initialize arrays 01:48:32 Fare: they need not even be unfilled, just never accessed 01:48:51 no, that sounds wrong 01:49:12 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:22 hmm ccl gets this wrong (upgraded-array-element-type nil) => T 01:49:38 if the implementation claims to have an array with more than zero filled elements, it would be lying. 01:50:01 Fare: accessing uninitialized elements is undefined 01:50:14 er, rather reading unitialized elements 01:50:17 oh well, then. 01:50:36 -!- pdenno [~pdenno@216-15-38-107.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:50:46 if you lie to the implementation, it will lie right back at you. 01:50:56 -!- segmond__ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-135-214.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:51:44 Fare: there is no lie so far. 01:51:51 interestingly, asdf works on clisp, just so long as you don't try to either upgrade or reload it -- then hell breaks lose, in a way I don't yet understand. 01:52:11 <|3b|> conforming code can't read them since they are not initialized, and can't store anything in them to make them readable since there are no values of type NIL 01:52:24 I suspect a bug somewhere in how clisp uninterns symbols. 01:52:49 error returns a value of type NIL 01:53:11 stassats, that I can believe, for it never returns, unlike cerror. 01:53:28 (make-array 10 :element-type nil :initial-element (error "")) 01:53:28 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.254.179] has joined #lisp 01:54:07 -!- LAMMJohnson [~john@user-5AF432F7.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:10 -!- Longlius [~Longlius@68.170.238.146] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 01:54:16 Longlius [~Longlius@68.170.238.146] has joined #lisp 01:54:41 now sbcl complains, that it never returns a value 01:54:46 lifeng [~lifeng@61.190.84.83] has joined #lisp 01:56:44 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@61.190.84.83] has left #lisp 01:57:07 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:57:47 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:00:21 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-94-137.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:30 after moving configuration.lisp from asdf to asdf-driver, we're now at 48% of the code being general-purpose asdf-driver code, and 52% being asdf itself, of which 3% is backward-compatibility code. So pretty balanced between the two. 02:01:33 segmond__ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-134-37.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:55 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:10:14 -!- timau [~timau@95.168.101.234] has quit [Quit: timau] 02:12:02 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-94-137.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:15:54 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:20:42 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:23:18 stopbit [~stopbit@c-68-50-168-116.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:23 -!- uisk [~user@9-157-131-46.internet.emt.ee] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:32:24 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-dcyctbmqjdmzcjnf] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:34:35 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 02:37:09 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:38:45 -!- DrCode 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[~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:02:27 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:03:45 -!- benny [~user@i577A8876.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:03:45 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.23] has joined #lisp 04:03:46 -!- wakeup_ [~max@xdsl-89-0-145-71.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:08:44 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:08:52 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:10:50 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:07 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 04:13:31 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:53 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:36 ROTINBLOODYHELL [46b3a1e6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.179.161.230] has joined #lisp 04:16:50 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 04:16:51 HI, DO YOU HAVE A RESOURCE THAT TEACHES ELEMENTARY STUDENTS HOW TO USE LISP? 04:17:08 It'd better NOT be a super-hard adults-only programming lang. 04:18:06 BEEP ME WHEN YOU WAKE UP FROM YOUR NAPPY-TIME, OKAY??? 04:18:19 ROTINBLOODYHELL: You might like Land of Lisp for a fun introduction to Common Lisp. 04:18:29 zajn: link please? 04:19:33 ROTINBLOODYHELL: http://www.amazon.com/Land-Lisp-Learn-Program-Game/dp/1593272812 04:19:38 -!- Q_ [~sy@24.111.9.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:24 zajn: AWESOME! 04:20:42 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:49 Now, will being an expert programmer of lisp make me a millionaire? How much of a future / market is there for lisp programming? 04:20:57 there's also "a gentle introduction to symbolic computation" 04:22:01 ROTINBLOODYHELL: People don't learn lisp for money but rather for enjoyment. 04:22:40 How do you "enjoy" lisp besides that game? 04:24:10 ROTINBLOODYHELL: Just learn lisp and you'll soon find out what I mean. 04:24:36 I see, zajn. What programming languages have the most money to be made with it? 04:25:02 whatever you can make facebook 2 with 04:25:19 To be honest, money could be made with any language. 04:26:01 I mean, the -most- money. In terms of what position of employment? "(Name of programming language) programmer / specialist)" 04:26:33 you have a very strange idea of how business works 04:27:18 perhaps you should consult an employment consultant about your future job prospects. 04:28:55 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:16 werwerwer [~1@158.181.206.28] has joined #lisp 04:32:21 zajn: Wait a minute, it's a BOOK? Not a COMPUTER GAME? 04:32:27 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:32 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:32:43 I looked more closely, it's a book cover, not a front of a game CD box! 04:32:49 ROTINBLOODYHELL: Yes, it's a book that teaches Common lisp. 04:32:52 is this a joke? 04:33:10 Why isn't there a PC game that teaches you how to code? 04:33:21 ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has joined #lisp 04:33:29 ROTINBLOODYHELL: Ok, stop trolling please. 04:33:31 Bike: sorry, no, I hope to find a game that teaches you how to code by having you have fun with it at the same time. 04:33:51 *ROTINBLOODYHELL* isn't -trying- to troll. 04:33:55 those aren't generally effective. 04:34:07 at least, not beyond an elementary course at best. 04:34:30 I have it added to my wishlist though. 04:34:59 ROTINBLOODYHELL: It's not a game, but rather teaches you lisp by making small games. 04:37:24 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-150-2.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:37:46 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:42:23 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:42:53 ebobby [~fms@189.170.27.127] has joined #lisp 04:45:52 *vsync* waves at j0ni 04:48:07 *j0ni* flings poo at vsync 04:50:40 browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.169.112] has joined #lisp 04:51:37 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:52:32 Fare: therep 04:52:45 t 04:53:01 my run-program/ is broken on lispworks 04:53:14 :perform (asdf:compile-op :before (o c) ...) doesn't seem to be run here 04:53:23 when is it run? 04:55:32 or is it just incorrect? 04:55:44 neither asdf:load-source-op nor asdf:load-op are run too 04:57:34 I have a fix for run-program/ 04:57:46 wait... is :perform in +asdf-methods+ ? 04:58:14 what is +asdf-methods+? 04:58:27 ah, a constant? 04:58:37 a feature from way back when I didn't really understand until a few days ago 04:58:48 asdf::+asdf-methods+ => (ASDF::PERFORM-WITH-RESTARTS ASDF:PERFORM ASDF:EXPLAIN ASDF:OUTPUT-FILES ASDF:OPERATION-DONE-P) 04:58:50 zajn_ [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:52 only with the reorganization into small files did I get this one 04:59:02 i'm on 2.26.6 04:59:04 in the new asdf it's processed in file backward-internals 04:59:13 the same functions exist in 2.26.6 04:59:37 one of the few pieces of code I didn't touch 04:59:46 and the only way I'd touch it is by removing it 05:00:13 I recommend a good old defmethod not part of the defsystem statement 05:01:00 it's from iolib 05:01:06 _tca [~user@h151.25.91.207.static.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:31 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 05:02:16 it's a 2007 innovation by Gary King that I disapprove of. 05:02:25 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:02:27 fd39ddb1 05:03:17 actually, he innovated a better way to deal with them, but not the inline-methods themselves 05:03:30 -!- ROTINBLOODYHELL is now known as RIBH 05:03:57 i can't seem to be able to use fasls compiled with an older asdf on a newer one 05:04:03 inline methods are an invention by Daniel Barlow, commit 6f6d334 from Feb 2002. 05:04:05 had to delete them after upgrading 05:04:10 Not one of his best ideas. 05:04:21 which imlementation? 05:04:24 hm, no, the problem reappears nevertheless 05:04:26 sbcl 05:04:33 When attempting to read the slot's value (slot-value), the slot ASDF/INTERFACE::RELATIVE-PATHNAME is missing from the object #. 05:04:36 uh? I have no problem with asdf 05:05:17 oh, interesting. 05:05:26 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:31 why is there a system object in a fasl, though? 05:05:43 shouldn't all system objects in in .asd files that are read as source? 05:06:19 cxml has (slot-value (asdf:find-system :cxml) 'asdf::relative-pathname) 05:06:28 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: It's not like life has documentation] 05:06:43 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:50 let me look at cxml. 05:07:17 which file/ 05:07:31 does loading it succeed? 05:08:07 and restarting and loading again? 05:08:48 I just compiled with 2.26 05:08:57 restarted, and loaded with 2.26.80 05:09:04 no problem 05:09:14 i can now reproduce independent of the previous version of asdf 05:09:16 using SBCL 1.1.3-dirty 05:09:25 independently 05:09:31 -!- zajn_ [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:09:34 sbcl --eval "'(#.(require :asdf) #.(in-package :asdf) #.(upgrade-asdf) #.(load-system :cxml))" 05:09:44 you can remove the #. before upgrade-asdf to skip it 05:10:20 and without upgrades 05:10:25 both work 05:10:27 (to me) 05:10:53 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 05:11:19 maybe i forgot to call make on asdf 05:11:49 there seems to be a bug in merge-pathnames for lispworks. Oh well. 05:11:57 or copy asdf.lisp from build/ 05:12:55 -!- RIBH [46b3a1e6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.179.161.230] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:13:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.236.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:13:32 nope, didn't help 05:14:29 just (asdf:find-system :cxml) fails, in slime, but not in the repl 05:15:38 same thing on CCL 05:16:08 -!- lewie [~lewie@77.237.98.66] has quit [Quit: lewie] 05:16:24 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:16:31 care for a backtrace? 05:17:41 sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 05:17:45 lewie [~lewie@77.237.98.66] has joined #lisp 05:18:25 it's actually a NIL vs :UNSPECIFIC issue in pathname. Ouch. 05:20:19 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:48 wonderful 05:20:52 well, the error in slime because some swank-asdf around methods are calling accessing RELATIVE-PATHNAME, so it's not a separate problem 05:20:59 should we create #asdf? 05:21:08 nah. 05:21:14 luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-141.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:24 not unless people here express disapproval at the noise. 05:22:57 what does (asdefs "2.27" ...) mean? 05:23:05 ok, lispworks passes all tests AND all upgrade tests to me. (It also compiles and runs very fast) 05:23:05 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:23:07 i thought there's no asdf version 2.27 05:23:17 not yet 05:23:32 oh... let me see if that asddefs is an issue 05:23:40 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:57 indeed it might be 05:24:13 well, swank-asdf fails in ... (asdefs "2.27" (defmethod component-relative-pathname 05:24:22 or not 05:24:26 typeclassy [~user@ool-ae2ceba4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:51 oh, i see 05:25:56 it's a package issue 05:26:01 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:26:23 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 05:26:41 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 05:27:17 it tries ASDF/INTERFACE::RELATIVE-PATHNAME while it's ASDF/COMPONENT::RELATIVE-PATHNAME 05:28:34 'asdf::relative-pathname => ASDF/INTERFACE::RELATIVE-PATHNAME 05:28:38 what if you remove that asddef? 05:28:50 well, that won't fix cxml 05:29:06 cxml accesses 'asdf::relative-pathname too 05:29:31 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 05:30:06 wait --shouldn't they be the same symbol? 05:31:43 to me, they are the very same symbol! 05:31:57 which version of asdf are you using? 05:32:22 (apropos "RELATIVE-PATHNAME") shows only ASDF/COMPONENT::RELATIVE-PATHNAME 05:32:36 after doing (print 'asdf::relative-pathname), ASDF/INTERFACE::RELATIVE-PATHNAME joins in 05:32:39 Fare: the latest 05:32:50 asdf/package:define-package tries it very best to make the transition smooth by rehoming symbols rather than merely uninterning them. 05:32:52 2.26.80 05:33:15 -!- lewie [~lewie@77.237.98.66] has quit [Quit: lewie] 05:33:21 (eq 'ASDF/COMPONENT::RELATIVE-PATHNAME 'ASDF/INTERFACE::RELATIVE-PATHNAME) ==> T 05:33:25 penlatest 05:33:51 well, latest has lispworks fixes, but no change to asdf 05:33:56 is it NIL to you? 05:34:07 rebuilding 05:35:08 nilly nil 05:35:27 (btw, I only promise to support smooth upgrade from release to release and release to master, not from master to master, in which things are sometimes broken -- but that shouldn't be the case here) 05:35:50 i don't compile asdf.lisp and save an image 05:36:04 if you have a short command to reproduce, that can help 05:36:08 ("and ..." doesn't include "don't" 05:36:58 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:37:03 asdf.lisp should work the same whether compiled to fasl or loaded from source 05:38:04 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:09 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:39:10 well, asdf:enable-asdf-binary-locations-compatibility doesn't work in a compiled asdf.lisp 05:39:15 The function ASDF/PATHNAME:NIL-PATHNAME is undefined. 05:39:20 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.3.252] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:39:37 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 05:40:00 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:40:37 because it's used in a macro 05:40:50 with-pathname-defaults 05:42:49 what i do is very simple: rlwrap sh ./run-sbcl.sh --load ~/lisp/site/asdf/asdf.lisp 05:42:53 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:42:58 then (eq 'ASDF/COMPONENT::RELATIVE-PATHNAME 'ASDF/INTERFACE::RELATIVE-PATHNAME) => NIL 05:44:42 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:05 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.254.179] has left #lisp 05:47:34 can't load on ABCL at all 05:47:36 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:47:42 it fails because of #+nil(a . #+nil 1 ) 05:48:06 (which is demonstrated on the line 3192) 05:48:12 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:50:21 so, anyone tired of asdf discussion can wake up and help figure whether it's a good thing to fail on #+nil(a . #+nil 1 ) or not 05:51:53 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:52:21 -!- Longlius [~Longlius@68.170.238.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:43 abcl's ok with #+nil(a . . ) but not with #+nil(a . . . ) or #+nil(a . ) 05:55:14 I don't see anything in *read-suppress* that's relevant to how (a . ) should be read, I don't think 05:56:01 created http://trac.common-lisp.net/armedbear/ticket/286 05:56:15 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:58:17 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc05-o.oracle.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:58:33 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:59:01 -!- Tau [~Euler@186.194.51.29] has quit [Quit: Tau] 05:59:19 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:00:03 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc05-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 06:00:28 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:59 Fare: no matter what i do, (eq 'ASDF/COMPONENT::RELATIVE-PATHNAME 'ASDF/INTERFACE::RELATIVE-PATHNAME) is nil 06:01:58 on sbcl, abcl, ccl 06:04:03 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:27 -!- typeclassy [~user@ool-ae2ceba4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:55 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:06:53 zajn_ [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:17 kubatyszko [~zzyx@kubatyszkoi.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:33 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:09:00 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:12:50 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:14:06 Fare: i don't think that the problem with :perform is that they are inline 06:14:34 perform is not really called on the top-level asdf component, i.e. the system 06:15:57 putting into a file-component works fine 06:16:06 k0001 [~k0001@host163.186-125-147.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 06:16:52 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:18:56 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 06:20:30 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc05-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:22:56 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc05-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 06:23:02 -!- ebobby [~fms@189.170.27.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:25:35 *Fare* got a fix for alisp, and an interesting pathname lack-of-match issue 06:25:59 stassats, could you identify the bug? 06:26:04 I can't reproduce :-/ 06:26:45 which one? 06:27:01 tps_ [~tps_@hoasb-50dd08-36.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 06:27:35 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 06:28:14 yours 06:28:30 which one mine? 06:28:53 or even alisp failure: (TRANSLATE-PATHNAME #P"/home/tunes/cl/asdf/test/file2.fasl" #P"/**/*.*" #P"/**/*.*") ==> works when you type what's printed, but fails. Probably another nil vs :unspecific horror 06:30:38 -!- tps_ [~tps_@hoasb-50dd08-36.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 06:31:24 the :perform one, the http://paste.lisp.org/display/134575 06:31:47 the perform load-op method for the system is called after the ones for the system components 06:32:30 yes, that's part of the design 06:32:36 not a bug 06:32:40 so, it's useless then 06:33:11 no. 06:33:17 it's just not what you think 06:33:34 tracing TRAVERSE can give you as much information with less pain 06:33:47 what are you trying to do? 06:34:02 get stuff compiling 06:34:18 asdf does that 06:34:23 well, it fails 06:34:36 what are you trying to do that you think requires a perform method? 06:34:51 it's not mine, it's from iolib 06:34:54 and which version of asdf are you trying to debug 06:35:03 oh. Lemme look at iolib, then 06:35:06 which asd? 06:35:12 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:35:17 the version doesn't matter 06:35:43 well, it's not the latest, since i can't get it running at all 06:35:52 .23 and .26 06:36:14 what iolib is doing is to run some initialization before loading the system 06:36:15 that is all 06:36:27 before loading the components 06:38:26 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:39:20 -!- kubatyszko [~zzyx@kubatyszkoi.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Quit: kubatyszko] 06:39:59 before lodaing the system? hopeless 06:40:10 in the latest asdf, he could do that with prepare-op 06:40:10 before load the components 06:40:20 oh, that works 06:40:34 how? 06:41:06 which asd? 06:41:22 http://paste.lisp.org/display/134575 06:41:59 I don't see what's wrong with that paste 06:42:21 pnpuff [~Dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 06:42:30 perform on the system is called after the perform on the component 06:42:41 yes, that's normal 06:42:50 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:42:54 always been done that way, always will 06:42:59 so, it's useless then 06:43:09 should we start anew? 06:43:11 each "step", just like a makefile step, is something done after all the dependencies are done 06:43:16 it's the opposite of usless 06:43:49 well, so it's not possible, ok 06:44:19 if you want something done before everything you need do it in the perform of the prepare-op (on 2.27) or in the perform of a system you depend on (before 2.27) 06:45:14 (and in the meantime, cffi grovel doesn't work with asdf on ECL) 06:45:38 or maybe just doesn't work, regardless of asdf 06:45:52 -!- luqui [luqui@clozure-2DB1F356.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 06:45:52 -!- luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-141.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 06:46:03 any trivial test case? just load it? 06:46:33 load a given system that depends on it? 06:46:47 no, nothing trivial which isn't broken by one of the above bugs 06:47:04 tell me what works on SBCL 06:47:13 then I'll make it work on ECL 06:47:32 doesn't have to be trivial - I can reduce the test case (hopefully) 06:47:49 well, you know the deal 06:48:02 well, it's iolib 06:48:14 but errors out because of the performs 06:51:22 I get this error: /home/tunes/.cache/common-lisp/sbcl-1.1.3-dirty-linux-x64/home/tunes/cl/BRANCHED/iolib/src/syscalls/ffi-types-unix.c:1912: error: invalid application of ‘sizeof’ to incomplete type ‘rusage’ 06:52:04 that's the file it fails on, but i don't get such an error, did you run gcc by hand? 06:52:50 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:06 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 06:53:57 -!- zajn_ [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:57:19 no - I am just trying to load iolib 06:57:21 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-198-197.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:57:35 rlwrap sbcl --eval "'(#.(require :asdf) #.(in-package :asdf) #.(upgrade-asdf) #.(load \"build/asdf.lisp\") #.(load-system :iolib)) 06:58:37 note: you may have to clean your fasl cache when you switch asdf versions 06:58:49 but with the old asdf, I get the same error 06:59:16 you may not have libfixposix installed 06:59:26 or an old version 07:00:53 and it's not cffi-grovel, but iolib-grovel 07:00:56 -!- svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Quit: svs_] 07:01:30 configure.ac:12: error: Autoconf version 2.67 or higher is required 07:01:30 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host163.186-125-147.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:01:39 meh, too late for me 07:01:48 I'm past my bedtime 07:01:51 at least something is worse than ASDF, autoconf! 07:02:38 yeah, I was writing a rant about asdf, and concluding that people who say lisp sucks should compare to the situation in the C world. 07:03:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-203.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:06:34 ok, i see the problem 07:07:11 asdf:output-files on ecl is both .o and .fas, and iolib just uses the first, and it turns out to be the wrong one 07:07:46 -!- _tca [~user@h151.25.91.207.static.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:09:37 tps_ [~tps_@hoasb-50dd08-36.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 07:10:05 luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-141.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:19 oh - I switched the order to enable some other method to always take the first one 07:15:52 instead of doing crazy shit 07:16:14 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 07:17:40 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:20:42 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:21:02 sdemarre [~serge@134.176-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 07:21:11 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 07:21:17 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 07:22:50 miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:29 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:24:52 -!- pnpuff [~Dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Greensleeves...] 07:26:40 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:29:24 ebobby [~fms@189.170.27.127] has joined #lisp 07:29:50 -!- tps_ [~tps_@hoasb-50dd08-36.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: tps_] 07:32:31 i have a plist tree (values of the plist are themselves plists). the implementation for an accessor-function (access plist &rest subkeys), to access values of varying depths, came quite naturally to me. i'm having trouble finding an elegant/simple enough implementation for the equivalent (setf access) function... any ideas? 07:32:41 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 07:33:15 you could look at setf assoc-value in alexandria 07:34:04 -!- ebobby [~fms@189.170.27.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:35:40 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:34 Bike: hmm, i can't find that one in the documentation... but slime says it's there... is it undocumented? 07:37:05 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:37:11 robot-beethoven: it has a docstring 07:38:02 robot-beethoven: anyway it's just cdr assoc, except that you can setf it, which puts a new cons in the alist if necessary, or modifies the old one if i's not. 07:38:44 pnpuff [~Dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 07:38:45 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:39:11 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 07:39:27 Bike: perfect -- that's precisely what i needed. 07:39:49 robot-beethoven: i meant look at how it's implemented, though, since i'm guessing it's like your plist business (though i'm not sure how the treeness will impact) 07:40:36 the implementation is a bit hard to read because it uses a macrolet so that rassoc-value can be defined too 07:40:59 oh yeah, i forgot assoc was for alists, not plists 07:41:22 thought my work was done ;) 07:41:50 eh, maybe i'll just switch to an alist representation 07:42:40 out of curiosity, is it intentional that assoc-value isn't in the documentation? or is it just that nobody got around to it yet? 07:42:59 no idea. 07:43:20 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:50:25 -!- sdemarre [~serge@134.176-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:50:36 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:50:57 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 07:51:20 -!- pnpuff [~Dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 07:51:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h94-75-38-25.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 07:57:07 -!- miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:57:31 robot-beethoven: but i assume it's supposed to be part of the interface. it's exported and useful and all. 07:58:02 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 07:58:22 -!- am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:58:35 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.236.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:01:10 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-210-21.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:35 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:03:54 -!- karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:04:19 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:06:01 karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:08:17 killerboy 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[~kennyd@93-141-63-97.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:28:45 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:28:47 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-202-180.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:29:20 kilon_alios [~kilon@188.4.27.55.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 09:30:10 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:21 astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-235-122.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:04 zvrba [96456@diamant.ifi.uio.no] has joined #lisp 09:37:48 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8E30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:39:25 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:41:14 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B266.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:19 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon 09:41:20 -!- kilon [~kilon@188.4.27.55.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Changing host] 09:41:20 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 09:43:00 stassats: like, on a usenet archive like google groups? perhaps somebody should summarize the points and archive it somewhere 09:43:35 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:43:47 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:48:11 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8E30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:48:14 ehu [~ehu@109.34.213.58] has joined #lisp 09:49:40 Bike: *read-suppress* set to t should clearly let you read any configuration of all-dots tokens (and tokens containing multiple colons, etc), since they are all allowed as implementation extensions. 09:49:42 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 09:50:20 An implementation can define a meaning for (a .. b) or (a . b . c) and for a:b:c and a:::b etc. 09:50:36 -!- AlbireoX`Laptop [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:55:02 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@125.122.55.117] has quit [Quit: ] 10:04:43 -!- elkng 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quit [Client Quit] 16:15:14 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.43.155] has joined #lisp 16:15:20 #lisp, tell me your feelings about memoization libraries for Common Lisp. 16:15:33 Anyone using anything for real work and finding it excellent or lacking in some way? 16:15:53 Our application requires some fine grained control of the memoization process. 16:16:03 So we need a bit moer than stashing stuff in a hash table. 16:16:16 But baking our own may still be the best bet. 16:16:18 i usually roll out my own 16:16:24 ad-hoc 16:16:41 I just started using fare-memoization. Works fine for me, pretty simple application. 16:18:13 I am looking at the docs now 16:18:14 If there's something documented, maintained, does what you want, and in quicklisp, why roll your own? 16:18:22 Or the code, really 16:19:22 Never hurts to get the community's feelings about things 16:20:19 fe[nl]ix: where would you like pull-requests more, github or gitorious? 16:20:21 I see fare-memoization memoizes the function rather than providing an interface to call any function through a memoization layer. 16:21:20 I use fmemo:memoized-funcall, it works well. 16:21:48 ApeShot: it uses a hash table, though 16:22:02 ApeShot: is there a reason you do not want that? 16:22:09 No, hash tables are fine 16:22:18 ok I misunderstood you 16:22:21 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:22:38 What is the status in CL of using a hash table which uses equalp for key comparison? 16:22:56 ApeShot: well, it works. 16:23:29 or what do you mean by "status"? 16:23:34 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-149-113.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 16:23:56 Never mind, the hyperspec says I can make equalp hash tables 16:24:04 I had it in my dumb head that you could not for some reason. 16:24:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:26:39 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-149-113.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:27:23 Forty-3 [~seana11@outbound.terrawi.com] has joined #lisp 16:31:24 -!- pdenno [~pdenno@216-15-38-107.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:32:19 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:31 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8E30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:38:30 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8E30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:45:57 zulu_inuoe [~quassel@184.89.111.53] has joined #lisp 16:46:15 yati [~yati@122.169.89.68] has joined #lisp 16:46:42 -!- yati [~yati@122.169.89.68] has left #lisp 16:47:50 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:48:07 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.239] has joined #lisp 16:49:08 dbushenko [~dim@178.121.38.129] has joined #lisp 16:51:37 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:48 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:11 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:52:41 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 16:55:14 -!- ApeShot [~user@rrcs-24-106-184-123.se.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:51 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:14 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 16:57:40 cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:21 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-204-75-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:00:41 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:07 francogrex [~user@109.134.229.110] has joined #lisp 17:07:24 -!- ngz [~user@102.188.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:52 ngz [~user@102.188.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:35 jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-66-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:09:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:10:59 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:07 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.229.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:44 mcspiff [~user@bas16-ottawa23-1096764570.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:23:51 question about setf-able places... why does (push obj (slot inst)) call (setf slot) but (setf (car (slot inst))) doesn't? 17:23:54 tps_ [~tps_@hoasb-50dd08-36.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:24:27 because it calls (setf car) 17:24:49 ase [~se@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 17:26:49 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 17:27:23 -!- teslalamp [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:27:59 so you end up with a function call somewhat like ((setf car) new-value (slot inst))? 17:28:58 roughly 17:29:18 and im guessing push is more macro-y in its expansion? 17:30:00 macro-y? 17:30:39 good time-of-day everyone, can you recommend a cl persistence library? 17:30:56 cl-store, rucksack 17:31:02 , write-your-own 17:31:09 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h94-75-38-25.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:31:27 is it that easy? (:) 17:31:49 it's fun 17:32:06 oddly enough im writing a simple persistence layer at the moment 17:33:34 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:56 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8E30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:36:27 fun it is then, thanks and have a good day! 17:36:32 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:36:51 but first try cl-store and rucksack, if only for inspiration and insight 17:37:40 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:37:47 stassats: it is rather fun, more than I expected anyways 17:37:53 will do, in fact have no other choice as an utter beginner :) 17:37:56 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:38:40 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:45 just wish there was a remove that worked on places, if that makes sense 17:39:01 alexandria:removef 17:39:09 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8E30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:39:31 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:10 mcspiff: check define-modify-macro 17:40:22 clhs define-modify-macro 17:40:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defi_2.htm 17:40:39 ajfire [ajfire@67.194.229.161] has joined #lisp 17:40:40 stassats: wow, all sorts of useful macros for modifying places, thanks! 17:40:49 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:41:15 pjb: very cool 17:41:27 I'm having some trouble setting up clisp+emacs/slime in a Windows7 environment, can anyone help? 17:41:59 ajfire: 1- it works perfectly when it's clisp+emacs+slime/cygwin/Windows7. 17:42:21 ajfire: 2- it can also work with MS-Windows clisp and MS-Windows GNU emacs. 17:42:50 -!- luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-141.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 17:42:56 I've got the windows binaries for clisp and emacs 17:43:01 currently using emacs/slime/sbcl on win7 with no issues if you aren't overly attached to clisp 17:43:10 I can't get quicklisp to work properly, which means no slime(perhaps?) 17:43:32 well, it doesn't mean that, but you'd rather get quicklisp to work anyway 17:43:51 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:44:12 ajfire: check your asdf:*central-registry*, make sure it actually matches your quicklisp directory 17:44:31 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-66-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:44:33 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:38 asdf:*central-registry*? in clisp? 17:44:42 ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has joined #lisp 17:45:03 sbcl seemed to switch my home enviroment variable depending on if it was launched via slime or just from cmd.exe 17:45:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:46:26 I'm following this http://www.mohiji.org/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-windows/ and quicklisp's quickstart-install-whatever claims to have installed quicklisp but it doesn't recognize ql:___ as a package 17:47:41 In clisp, type: (truename (merge-pathnames #P".clisprc.lisp" (user-homedir-pathname))) 17:48:02 oh, that's a different problem then mine, sorry 17:48:06 then copy the path, and in emacs C-x C-f and paste the path. 17:48:10 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:48:29 ajfire: you need to run (ql:add-to-init-file) 17:48:43 Check there's a (load "/setup.lisp") to load quicklisp in that file. 17:49:38 truename thing: I get a path from C to my users folder saying that ...\\.clisprc.lisp does not exist 17:50:13 That could be a problem, couldn't it? 17:50:36 it might 17:50:36 But now, there are alternative files, so it may be some other file. Check the doc of clisp on http://clisp.cons.org/ 17:50:42 ajfire: if you load setup.lisp and run (ql:add-to-init-file) 17:51:05 it'll create an appropriate .clsiprc file and add quicklisp initialization code to it 17:51:06 stassats: it doesn't recognize ql as a package, will that command work? I'll try it... 17:51:18 ajfire: after loading setup.lisp, it will 17:51:37 where should my setup.lisp be? 17:51:44 where did you install quicklisp 17:51:45 ? 17:51:50 In the quicklisp directory. 17:51:52 did you provide a custom :path? 17:51:56 d:/quicklisp 17:51:58 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:08 kk 17:52:23 so it'd be d:/quicklisp/setup.lisp 17:52:23 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:52:44 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:52:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:53:00 loaded, trying add-to-init-file 17:53:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:53:42 (I just crashed clisp twice with the arrow keys ) 17:53:46 Hey, I can't seem to get hunchentoot's dispatchers working. I've used easy-handlers fine, but can't get the dispatchers going. 17:54:39 jack_rabbit: did you start it? 17:54:47 add-to-init-file seems to have worked, I think I'm back on track 17:54:52 Thank you! 17:55:15 and if you did start, did you start with hunchentoot:easy-acceptor? 17:55:25 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:34 stassats, I did start it, but not with easy-acceptor. Hang on, I'll do a paste. 17:56:23 -!- Tau is now known as tau 17:56:31 http://paste.lisp.org/display/134589 17:56:54 well, there's your problem 17:57:18 What's up? 17:57:40 you're not using easy-acceptor, as i said 17:58:21 stassats, I have to use an easy-acceptor with create-static-file-dispatcher-and-handler? 17:58:48 well, can't you just put replace it and ask whether you have to do it later? 17:58:51 it'll be faster 17:58:55 -!- hydan [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:59:01 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:01:58 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:02:27 stassats, well create-static-file-dispatcher-and-handler is what I was trying to get working. Using an easy-acceptor seems to be working, but I'm not totally sure yet. I'll see how it goes. 18:02:31 Thanks. 18:09:06 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:10:54 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-5f730a48.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:11:35 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-042.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:12:41 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.43.155] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 18:14:40 -!- [1]JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/] 18:14:59 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 18:15:19 n0vember [~n0vember@shutdown.illusi0n.org] has joined #lisp 18:15:39 I got quicklisp working but can't install slime... I get "...\\clisp-2.48\\asdf.lisp" does not exist 18:15:41 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-042.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:36 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8E30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:17:10 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8E30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:17:15 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.170.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:18:53 hiteki [~user@2a01:e35:2ed9:5530:486d:27a5:a9d1:8299] has joined #lisp 18:18:55 hi 18:18:59 ajfire, quicklisp uses asdf, so I think you need to install asdf before using quicklisp (or use a lisp like sbcl which comes with biundled asdf) 18:19:14 bundled* 18:19:37 quicklisp buldnes asdf too 18:19:42 bundles 18:20:07 In that case I retract my suggestion 18:20:07 ajfire: did you try (ql:quickload :quicklisp-slime-helper) ? 18:20:39 I did (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper") 18:20:57 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 18:20:57 I got a bunch of install messages, then it said it couldn't find the asdf.lisp file and aborted 18:21:32 that can be an slime-asdf bug 18:22:40 browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.170.13] has joined #lisp 18:23:41 you think the problem is the slime installer? 18:23:50 no, i don't 18:25:06 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:22 Longlius [~Longlius@68.170.238.146] has joined #lisp 18:26:33 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f730a48.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:04 cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:42 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:32:59 Joreji [~thomas@87-096.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:34:53 zolk3ri1 [~Zol1ka@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:35:16 -!- hiteki [~user@2a01:e35:2ed9:5530:486d:27a5:a9d1:8299] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:36:48 -!- zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:38:10 -!- Joreji 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[~leo@182.48.109.8] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.92.1] 20:24:48 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:25 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:41 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.180.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:26:50 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-042.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:26:56 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-241-140.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:25 -!- sirmacik [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:27:32 sirmacik [sirmacik@darkserver.it] has joined #lisp 20:27:33 -!- sirmacik [sirmacik@darkserver.it] has quit [Changing host] 20:27:33 sirmacik [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has joined #lisp 20:29:17 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@36-229-174-230.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:29:19 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:29:30 SeanTAllen [uid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bopvwehycorjparl] has joined #lisp 20:29:36 varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cgfjtnyrtagusqgr] has joined #lisp 20:29:44 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-25-67-50.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:04 cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-159-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:34:49 *stassats* pushed a lot of changes to commonqt 20:34:58 more performance, less irritations! 20:35:28 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:35:35 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8E30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:36:38 How should I deal with a FLOATING-POINT-UNDERFLOW? I want to just treat the value as zero and continue running. 20:36:51 implementation dependent 20:37:08 ECL? 20:38:09 -!- dbushenko [~dim@178.121.38.129] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38:48 ah found it 20:39:35 will you share your finding with us? 20:39:51 stassats, http://osdir.com/ml/lisp.ecl.general/2008-05/msg00025.html 20:39:58 Seems to work… 20:40:31 pdenno [~pdenno@216-15-38-107.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:40:40 in case you ever want to run on sbcl, there it's sb-int:with-float-traps-masked 20:40:46 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-159-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:12 stassats, ok thanks. 20:42:04 ccl:get/set-fpu-mode 20:42:09 cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.167.154] has joined #lisp 20:42:13 someone, write a library! 20:43:59 stassats, Do you know if it's possible to convert a lisp array of appropriate element-type into a commonqt object such as a QImage, QByteArray etc. ? 20:44:51 m104 [~m104@c-98-207-238-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:17 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:50:51 an appropriate type such as? a vector of unsigned-byte 8? 20:51:09 are you using commonqt with ecl? 20:51:30 a vector of unsigned-byte 8, yes 20:52:27 No I'm using ecl with eql because I can't work out how to pass vectors from sbcl/ccl to commonqt 20:52:36 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:52:44 it's possible as in "technically possible", but nothing is there yet 20:52:56 if you show me an example of what you do, i might add such functionality 20:54:06 -!- m104 [~m104@c-98-207-238-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:55:01 looks like we just need to marshall const char * data 20:55:24 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:17 Thra11: but, there's already a way without it, you can pass it a foreign-pointer: (cffi:with-foreign-object (data :char 10) (#_QByteArray::fromRawData data 1)) 21:00:19 stassats, interesting. I'll try that… 21:01:46 if you can populate the foreign object directly, it'll also be more efficient 21:01:49 stassats: if that's all you need, copy/paste SB-BSD-SOCKETS::WITH-VECTOR-SAP. 21:02:04 ah right, I see the problem. 21:02:16 Unclear ownership. 21:02:32 (but then, w-f-o would also be ill advised) 21:03:46 unless you know the extent of the life of QByteArray, otherwise, foreign-alloc 21:04:20 -!- clone_of_saturn [~visitant@c-75-72-240-113.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:04:20 clone_of_saturn [~visitant@unaffiliated/clone-of-saturn/x-2509460] has joined #lisp 21:06:00 i'm unclear what to do with marshalling, doesn't copy (#_QByteArray::fromRawData data 1), (#_new QByteArray data 1) does copy 21:06:42 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:06:59 use with-foreign-object, and let the user deal himself with allocating foreign data for fromRawData 21:07:08 it's called "Raw", after all 21:09:47 but then, QImage also doesn't copy it 21:10:57 with-foreign-object/foreign-alloc seems like the best solution so far 21:11:07 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:11:57 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:02 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@outbound.terrawi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:12:44 Thra11: see also cffi:with-pointer-to-vector-data 21:13:24 that way if you already have a unsigned-byte 8 simple vector, you can avoid copying it 21:13:57 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 21:14:34 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: It's not like life has documentation] 21:14:49 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:05 stassats, sounds good. I'll have a read/experiment 21:17:20 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:19:49 m104 [~m104@c-98-207-238-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:41 jeti`` [~user@p54A1E50F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:17 -!- jeti` [~user@p548EBE09.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:25:23 -!- m104 [~m104@c-98-207-238-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:27:01 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 21:29:15 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:29:19 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:29 -!- timau [~timau@109.227.46.63] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:31 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-204-75-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 21:29:40 LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has joined #lisp 21:31:12 - 21:31:33 / 21:32:02 m104 [~m104@c-98-207-238-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:15 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:39 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abop122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:33:54 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84ebd3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:24 -!- kmels is now known as kmels_ 21:35:41 -!- kmels_ is now known as kmels 21:36:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:36:33 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboh119.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:36:35 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 21:36:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:36:58 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 21:40:08 stassats, cffi:with-pointer-to-vector-data seems to work pretty well (so far). Thankyou! 21:40:15 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:54 mind that it's only safe to use it only inside the body of with-pointer-to-vector-data 21:43:23 stassats, so if the QByteArray persists outside the body of with-pointer-to-vector-data, does it point to data that doesn't necessarily exist anymore because it hasn't made its own copy? 21:43:38 (#_new QByteArray data 1) does copy 21:43:46 (#_QByteArray::fromRawData data 1) doesn't 21:44:42 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abop122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 21:45:06 AeroNotix [~xeno@abop122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:45:39 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:14 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-005-041.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 21:53:33 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:54:12 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Zzz...] 21:58:13 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:58:42 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abop122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 21:59:24 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 22:00:11 :q 22:00:28 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:38 short question for sbcl 1.1.3: http://paste.lisp.org/display/134593 22:00:51 why does the stack frame show variable "a" with that content? 22:01:47 the printed value is 1, though. 22:03:20 pnpuff [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 22:04:35 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:04:41 -!- teslalamp [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:06:54 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:08:16 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84ebd3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:10:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-227.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:11:32 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:12:11 alpha123 [~turkchess@71-212-143-72.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:30 -!- tau is now known as Tau 22:13:21 -!- pdenno [~pdenno@216-15-38-107.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:13:53 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84ebd3.pool.mediaways.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:08 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 22:14:11 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.182] has joined #lisp 22:15:05 a function of mine is forwarding its arguments to another, so it's convenient for me to use (defun my-fun (&rest args) ...). is there a way for me to do this, yet have slime give me a more descriptive hint about my-fun in the minibuffer -- show the parameter names of the function args are passed to? 22:16:26 -!- ajfire [ajfire@67.194.229.161] has quit [] 22:16:41 not without defining new methods for the slime arglist displayer 22:18:00 robot-beethoven: sadly &whole only works for macros. 22:18:20 flip214: how would it help? 22:20:37 "... the &whole variable is bound to the corresponding part of the argument, as with &rest, but unlike &rest, other arguments are also allowed." 22:21:11 for functions there cannot be the forms, of course, but only the values - exactly what is wanted here, 22:21:25 but it's moot, as &whole is not defined for functions. 22:21:46 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 22:22:27 how would have &whole helped robot-beethoven? 22:22:46 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 22:22:46 pnpuff [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 22:23:30 I've been reading lately a lot into this "LOOP is bad or good" thinguie, supposing one goes into the camp of not using LOOP at all, what's left? Recursion and tail-call optimizations? 22:23:59 ebobby: TAGBODY, DO, PROG. 22:24:23 map + lambda 22:24:26 also dolist, or even iterate 22:25:26 People tend to dislike LOOP for its syntax, not for being iterative. 22:26:22 http://www.n-a-n-o.com/lisp/cmucl-tutorials/LISP-tutorial-21.html 22:27:50 pkhuong: :S 22:28:20 -!- Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:29:28 snearch [~snearch@f053013093.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:33:43 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 22:35:39 francogrex [~user@109.134.229.110] has joined #lisp 22:37:56 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:16 -!- p_nathan [~user@75.87.250.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:40:54 then there are those of us who like CL:LOOP and dislike ITERATE for its 'syntax' :P 22:40:58 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8E30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:43:50 stassats: iiuc, (defun ff (foo bar &key (baz '1) &whole whole) (funcall gg whole)) is what flip214 meant 22:44:11 he did? 22:44:26 that's what I think he meant 22:44:31 maybe he did, but that's robot-beethoven wanted 22:44:42 that's not 22:44:46 not what 22:44:47 damn 22:44:55 :-) 22:45:31 -!- m104 [~m104@c-98-207-238-226.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 22:45:43 you can do the same thing with &rest, but you need to type-out all the arguments and ignore all the unused 22:45:47 well, it beats declaring the argument list and then passing everything one by one 22:46:03 right 22:46:51 so, not much of an improvement 22:47:07 because you still need to type out the arguments, ignore them, just less typing for apply 22:47:46 it's about a factor of two. 22:48:00 *drewc* is quite glad that SLIME does not try to make up the arguments based on what the function does, and does have a few &rest &key foo &allows-other-keys things so it does shows him what to pass 22:48:01 and you could just ignore the compiler notes. 22:48:09 prxq: constant factors don't matter 22:48:37 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:44 and a protip: &whole should be at the very beginning, not the end 22:49:43 stassats: `whois common-lisp.pro` :D 22:50:04 drewc: be quick! 22:50:30 oh, quick indeed :-) 22:50:37 drewc: are you planning on putting tips into the whois information? 22:50:53 stassats: heh ... I should! 22:52:22 "Created On:01-Jan-2013" did you come up with it while partying? 22:52:31 but, basically, there is a pro common-lisp.net mailing list, and I plan on moving that to commom-lisp.pro and having a 'site' for pro CLers that is not trying to appeal to newbs like I plan on making cl-net kinda sorta do. 22:53:23 heh ... being self employed with international businesses as clients, that was a hard working day .. 12 hours on the 31st, 15 on the 1st. 22:53:27 pnathan [~user@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 22:53:56 because I can have a wee bit of downtime on the 1st .. I did the same for xmas day as well. 22:54:01 drewc: you mean cl-org? 22:54:12 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:54:14 i mean, the newb thing :-) 22:54:15 drewc: at least that means you can afford to register domains at a whim! 22:54:18 Does anyone have any pointers on getting DRAKMA to work with CLISP on OSX? It's not building with FFI by default and I'm not sure how to convince it to. 22:54:29 why clisp? 22:54:35 stassats: it isn't expensive 22:54:41 nope cl-org will be and organisation 22:54:53 and cl-net no longer hosting? 22:54:58 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:55:20 stassats: (1) cause I want to. (2) it has a nice REPL out of the box. 22:55:23 well, cl-net will 'stay' the way it is, only on different boxes 22:55:39 but not as nice as slime 22:55:42 pnathan: if you disable SSL support, drakma might work without FFI. 22:56:00 stassats: of course. But, that doesn't answer my initial question. 22:56:35 pkhuong: Interesting. Is CLISP+FFI dead then? 22:56:46 and of course change ... but there are certain implementations and other libs that rely on my hosting the repos ...so I will not do something crazy like say 'no more CMUCL ever!' etc 22:56:52 pnathan: I haven't used CLISP in more than 5 years. 22:57:19 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:38 clisp is not something you would use to get a seamless library experience 22:57:50 chturne [~chturne@78-105-198-180.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:58:13 pnathan: you mean you don't know how to build clisp with ffi? I think it is in the docs 22:58:42 -!- hiro3w [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:00 and, you can use emacs + inferior slime as a lisp console, and load stuff from there, if you absolutely cannot stand emacs as an editor. 22:59:19 s/inferior slime/inferior lisp/ 22:59:21 or use a clozure ide, you know 22:59:26 or that 22:59:29 pnathan: sb-aclrepl and linedit look about on par with CLISP, from what I remember. 23:00:41 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053013093.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:01:01 prxq: didn't see any info from configure about what lib provided the ffi. I'll look around some more.. 23:01:08 pkhuong: I'll check those out 23:01:52 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 23:02:33 pnathan: libffcall, I believe. 23:03:02 what would be the current go-to library for socket programming in CL ? 23:03:02 Thanks! 23:03:15 usocket 23:03:19 iolib 23:03:20 or maybe use whatever the implementation offers? 23:03:32 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 23:03:49 ebobby: usocket is a fairly thin wrapper over whatever implementations offer. 23:04:12 thanks, ill check it out 23:04:41 im kinda toying with the idea of writing some sort of "NoSQL" server implementation on top of SQLite 23:05:16 kinda like Dynamo (although they use berkeley db 23:05:26 ) 23:05:48 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.229.110] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:07:15 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:08:25 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:11:27 I like the 'NoSQL' types who first use SQL database to have their 'NoSQL' based on. Makes me feel good for using postgres and,when i want a hash table type thing stored, hstore. :) 23:11:44 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:12:06 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:12:10 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl6-50-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:12:50 drewc: doesn't postgres come with a built-in schema-less key-value thing? 23:12:56 and of course, postgresql ... because postgres itself was, at the start, a NoSQL as well. And writting in LISP with a persistent CLOS in the C version as well. Ahhh 23:13:06 pkhuong: yeah, hstore 23:13:07 ah, right, hstore (: 23:13:11 included in 9.1 23:13:23 9.1 has JSON output for queries as well 23:13:35 9.2 has it built in! 23:14:53 So, since it outperforms most nosql databases, has a key/value an JSON built in, and POSTMODERN is good enough to use (I like S-SQL a lot an _hated_ clsql 23:16:00 ) ... well that is what I have been using for like 13 years for numerous companies. Moving AT&T from mysql to postgresql was one of the first jobs I had :) 23:17:09 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:17:19 postgres for 13 years, not postmodern at all... has not been around that long. 23:19:37 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-63-237.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 23:22:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-227.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:24 -!- pnathan [~user@75.87.250.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:28:56 "fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 20725(tid 140737319204608): kill_safely: pthread_kill failed with 3" 23:28:56 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:29:20 this happens after compiling and loading a lot of code 23:29:36 well, compiling and loading a largish code base. 23:30:04 if I just load it, and don't compile it, i see no error 23:30:32 the backtrace is unfortunately rather uninformative. 23:30:47 what sbcl version? 23:30:53 1.1.3 23:30:58 what *features* 23:31:37 default *features* for x86_64 23:31:42 i did not add anything 23:31:55 what kind of code are you loading? 23:32:00 heavy ffi, threads? 23:32:13 no threads, and yes, ffi. 23:32:36 if after the crash i restart sbcl and load everything from fasls, there is no problem. 23:33:17 it's numerical code 23:34:01 it looks like during compilation something went wrong. 23:34:27 I do have macros generating code 23:34:27 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:34:47 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:10 but they are rather old school lispy, not messing with anything fancy 23:38:55 ESRCH, interesting. 23:39:28 pkhuong: ? 23:41:29 is the code publicly available? 23:41:58 hi stassats 23:42:27 stassats: no, not yet. It seems i broke it like this cleaning it up 23:43:58 is it consing a lot? 23:44:08 yes :-) 23:45:43 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 23:46:12 i think i'll try to find something more specific. stassats, does that sbcl error tell you anything at all? 23:47:06 it looks like it happens during garbage callection 23:47:17 while gc is trying to stop the thread or something similar 23:47:20 but can't find it 23:47:58 pretty much nothing calls kill_safety, except for interrupt-thread. 23:48:08 *kill_safely 23:48:44 ok, thanks. I'll try running a (sb-ext:gc :full t) (among other things) 23:51:33 stassats: start/stop the world doesn't touch kill_safely. 23:52:25 -!- Fiora [~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:53:23 prxq: does it happen outside SWANK? 23:53:54 pkhuong: no, the backtrace shows swank. 1 sec, I'll post the bt 23:54:00 kill_safely it's called in the sigpipe handler 23:54:46 prxq: no, I mean, if you don't use swank. i.e. in a bare REPL. 23:55:21 stassats: which is used for interruptions, not for GC. 23:55:23 pkhuong: ah, ok. Let me try 23:58:37 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]