00:00:08 is there fully functioning lisp reader provided as a separate library>? 00:00:28 Yes. 00:00:44 (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp-reader) 00:00:44 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:55 LAMMJohnson [~john@user-5AF432F7.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:42 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5089CC3D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:12 pjb: how do you use it? I mean there is no standard way to plug lisp reader into implementation 00:04:12 tetzco [~tetzco@2001:a60:1218:1001:226:bbff:fe03:b2e9] has joined #lisp 00:07:59 What do you want to use it for? 00:09:31 I want it to read sources of my programs, and hook into it to provide package nicknames 00:09:39 aliases 00:10:25 Packages already can have nicknames 00:11:18 tcr: I want the nicknames not to be global 00:11:28 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:12:00 *drewc* uses nicknames, and CL-PACKAGE-ALIASES , and these days uses QUOTE and FUNCTION rather then the reader macro things for them .... so confused now :| 00:12:10 Hierarchical package names would be nice, indeed. 00:12:38 tcr: yeah .. Allegro has that! 00:12:38 If you're lucky, your implementation already provides it 00:12:59 tcr: I dont want hierarchical 00:13:03 just local aliases 00:13:08 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:13:44 drewc: I know about cl-package-aliases. Could you explain what you mean about QUOUTE and FUNCTION? 00:15:03 antonv: I mean that READers are not good (imo, for 'standard' tasks), and at this point I prefer sexps over syntax 99% of the time. 00:15:19 drewc: have you thought about not using "" too? like (coerce (vector (code-char 97) (code-char 32)) (quote string)) 00:15:33 drewc: can you show an example? 00:15:57 oh wait, #\(( is a reader macro too! 00:16:10 stassats`: actually, I use (<:as-html '#:|this "is a string" kind of|) all the time :) 00:16:38 surely you mean (quote #:|this "is a string" kind of|) 00:16:39 so, what I am saying about readers exactly? 00:17:21 #: is short for what? 00:17:23 drewc: ah, you use (functon foo) instead of #'foo. OK 00:17:39 sirmacik [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has joined #lisp 00:18:32 drewc: you're using it, you should know 00:18:35 antonv: I have started to recently yeah, for a lot of things. I still use #' as well, but have moved 'up' to full words for many many things. 00:19:14 drewc: OK. at the moment I am mostly interested about using aliases for long package names 00:19:28 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:19:59 start-list funcall start-list function c end-list end-list 00:20:59 cl-package-aliases are not even in quicklisp... 00:21:23 stassats`: lists? I like lisp, where proper list is a fashion, and CONS and NIL are 'lists' :) 00:21:26 disadvantage of this library, is that it is implemented as patches to CL implementatoins 00:21:49 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-94-137.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:41 antonv: you can't hook a different reader into an implementation without implementation specific hooks. Actually, the standard declares non-conforming redefining function or macro bindings in the CL package, and most CL implementation just reject such redefinition by "locking" the CL package. 00:23:43 it's not like using #' turns your programs into APL 00:23:58 antonv: yeah, you are right... big disadvantage ... thank jmc that I use networks and threads and PROG2 all the time ... so do not care about things being in the old standard at all when they are still useful and working for all the Common Lisp implementations i use. 00:24:26 antonv: however, there's a conforming way to hook into the implementation reader, and one could indeed package it into an easy-to-use library. 00:24:50 stassats`: is that what you think? that many folks do not use it because of APL? 00:25:00 antonv: it consists in defining reader macros on all the characters. It was nice while there was only 256 characters, but nowadays, all implementations provide 2097152 characters 00:25:07 pjb: I am aware only of Faree's library reader-interception 00:25:07 *drewc* is very confused now 00:25:25 antonv: oh good, I'll have a look at it. 00:25:28 drewc: APL is just a canonical example of how using abbreviation can go wrong 00:25:45 but i'm sure there's a middle ground between cobol syntax and apl syntax 00:25:54 oh... ok, I cannot help but agree with you there :) 00:26:01 pjb: for reader-intereception to work, you should give it the first character in the stream it is going to read 00:26:19 So, my lisp reader is used outside of the implementation. Notice that it's easy to reimplement a REPL, or LOAD. Even COMPILE-FILE could be implemented easily. 00:26:19 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:26:24 *drewc* has not working in either since '98 ... and did not like either then, let alone now :) 00:26:49 it then configures this character as a macro character which calls custom reader function 00:27:48 drewc: i'm all against adding new reader macros, but using the standard ones seems quite beneficial 00:28:32 ASDF has now :around-compile feature, which makes it possible in particular to employ reader-interceptor so that your files are compiled with custom reader 00:28:51 this meas we can create ASDF systems which are build with custom reader 00:29:00 antonv: well, as I said, if you don't know what the first character will be, you will have to put a reader macro on the 2097152 characters. 00:29:25 antonv: there's named-readtables already 00:30:37 pjb: yes, but if your code is in files, you can read the first char and give it to reader-interception [reader-interception installs/removes this reader macro dynamically) 00:30:45 antonv: I should write my CDR about the readtable-parse-token hook. 00:30:56 j0ni [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:04 if implementations provided this hook, it would let us do a lot of nice things. 00:31:10 so, it is possible to make it working for ASDF systems automatically 00:31:45 antonv: yes, I guess we can often find out the first character. 00:31:59 pjb: two questons: 1) you said there ther is a conforming way to hook into the reader - what it is? 2) what will this readtable-parse-token hook will do? 00:32:13 stassats`: ok ... and? what point are you making about COBOL and APL that I should listen to... or are you just making a point about reader macros ... good vs. bad ... ? 00:32:18 antonv: what reader-interception does: defining a reader macro. 00:32:55 readtable-parse-token would be called from the lisp reader algorithm once a token has been collected, to "parse" it and convert it into an integer, ratio, float, or symbol. 00:32:56 drewc: my point is that using FUNCTION and QUOTE is unreasonable 00:33:29 Notably for symbols, it would be able to process qualified symbols, ie. packages. And we could add meaning to a:b:c:e and things like that. 00:35:19 pjb: yes. There were similar discussion here already, we discussed a hook to resolve package prefix. http://paste.lisp.org/display/133561 00:35:25 antonv: notice however, that it is not very useful to read lisp code not interning the symbols where they should be interned. I tried that with my implementation of packages (which is along in the lisp-reader system), and it wasn't too successful. The problem being readtable evaluations (and reader macros), features, and so on. Even simple enough programs will contains at least a couple of them, enough to break this scheme. 00:35:30 ok .. so your opinion vs mine are different ... I like FUNCTION and QUOTE, in specific when I create source code... which I do not do very often, but i do it none the less ... So, can you /msg me and tell me why you think it is unreasonable specifically? I don't wamt to dirty up the #lisp with opinions as such. 00:35:46 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 00:35:50 s/wamt/wan 00:35:54 't 00:36:35 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:06 antonv: yes, the package prefix resolver is too specific. The reader-parse-token hook is more general, and normally should require only a two-line patch to implementations. 00:37:15 pjb: could you explain more detailed? or maybe simple example, because I don't see what you mean 00:37:32 about problems 00:37:34 drewc: well, that was my whole argument before, so, not much to add 00:37:41 (interning, features, etc) 00:38:00 drewc: you also capitalize QUOTE and FUNCTION? 00:38:14 stassats`: ok 00:38:38 prxq: sometimes yes. most of the time not. 00:38:42 pjb: about generality, I am thinking also about even more general hook - reader hook. It will allow user supplied functions to be called instead of cl:read cl:read-delimited-list 00:39:21 user can install his own reader, and customize this reader how he wants (package prefix resolving or anything else) 00:39:27 *drewc* also capitalizes T and NIL sometimes. 00:39:36 antonv: check http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_b.htm 00:40:05 sometimes? why the inconsistency? 00:40:25 pjb: it's big, what step or point? what do you mean 00:40:31 -!- msmith [~msmit297@adsl-74-190-144-48.asm.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 00:40:44 antonv: when there's a readtable-parse-token hook, the step 9 just calls it with the token (the characters and their syntax) and returns the result. 00:41:28 The step 9 defines the default parse-token algorithm but we want to be able to customize it. 00:41:54 stassats`: it is not inconsistent ... just 'different' ... for example ... '(q r s t u) vs (eq T (funcall fn)) 00:42:18 antonv: otherwise, yes, it could be a "GRAY-READER" hook :-) 00:42:30 that is me telling my future self that T is CL:T and/or 00:42:42 't is not, though it is' 00:42:43 pjb: I understand about parse-token hook 00:44:56 you said there are some problems. "is not very useful to read lisp code not interning the symbols where they should be interned .... and it wasn't too successful. The problem being readtable evaluations (and reader macros), features, and so on. Even simple enough programs will contains at least a couple of them, enough to break this scheme." 00:45:06 pjb: can you explain this? 00:45:15 what are the problems? do you have an example? 00:45:27 (defvar *x* 42) (print #.(1+ 42)) 00:45:33 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:45:37 drewc: i don't think my future self would be able to sense that subtle distinction 00:46:05 (defvar *x* 42) (print #.(1+ *x*)) If you read this source without interning *x* in the current cl:*package*, then #. cannot evaluate it. 00:46:46 If you read (1+ *x*) with the same reader as (defvar *x* 42), then you may not have a cl:symbol (but your own data structure), and you need to implement a lisp evaluator to evaluate (1+ *x*). 00:46:58 stassats`: well, I have, and my past self did the capital thing, because I use packages that often have the same symbol name as the CL package does ... do don't do it, and I won't work for you and do it myself. deal? 00:47:02 Then #+ will have to choose between scanning the cl:*features* or your own features. 00:47:15 and so on. 00:47:50 pjb: it is solvable 00:47:55 If the code you're loading define reader macros, and use them later, those reader macros will often refer other data structures and functions in that code. 00:48:08 who is responsible for interning symbols, reader? 00:48:21 drewc: cl:t would be more clear in that case, wouldn't it? 00:48:25 antonv: yes: it means that to be able to reader symbols not as instances of cl:symbol, you need to re-implement a Common Lisp :-) 00:48:34 antonv: yes, the step 9. 00:48:37 stassats`: rather CL:T ... yup 00:50:09 pjb: my thinking is the following. If we implement reader hook so that user can provide his own reader, then this reader must honor standard CL variables - http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_ab.htm 00:50:27 in addition, this custom reader may have some hooks, like token-hook 00:50:54 so the pluggable reader is fully compliant CL reader, + some features 00:51:18 it is configured by dynamic variables in the common-lisp package 00:51:20 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:24 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:30 *drewc* is just going to say 'we are talking about package aliases themselves, so what does CL mean in this case' ... and then go back to working in Common Lisp. 00:51:39 antonv: that basically means that the user function must implement steps 1-8. So we could as well leave those steps to the implementation, I think. 00:51:41 and in particular, it interns symbols into cl:*package* 00:52:35 Or you could say that if the user provides a reader function, it can implement any reading algorithm it wants (no need to respect the cl:*read variables, it's up to the user reader function). 00:52:40 clone_of_saturn [~visitant@c-75-72-240-113.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:35 pjb: right, it is up to the user reader function 00:53:52 normaly user wants to respect cl:*package* and som on 00:54:13 but if the code doesn't have (print #.(1+ *x*)), he can use different reader 00:55:20 and find-package, find-symbol, etc etc ... they do not have to work at all either? (are we still discussing packages here?) :) 00:55:29 antonv: check https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/common-lisp/lisp-reader/reader.lisp#line589 this would be the function to be hooked. Notice the parameters. 00:56:20 drewc: if speak about package aliases, for me it is enough that only reader is aware about aliases 00:56:55 when I do find-package, find-symbol then full (original) package name is specified 00:57:02 antonv: yes, it's more a restriction on the expectations of the users than a technical constraint. It's just that once the user reader doesn't intern real symbols, he cannot expect the lisp implementation to evaluate the read code, notably at read time :-) 00:57:22 well then. tal about 'syntax' and not package aliases 00:57:26 talk* 00:58:42 drewc: yes, current syntax is too verbose (full-package-name:symbol is syntax too, and I wish shorter syntax f:symbol) 00:58:47 jeti [~user@p548E9FA6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:40 I think there's only one commercial implementation that does something with a:b:c. We a reader hook a readtable-parse-token hook, we put it to good use for hierarchical packages or some other stuff. 01:00:46 pjb: reviewed parameters, I can only say that there are lot of them 01:01:39 also note about parse-token-hook vs package-prefix-hook. If user hooks into parse-token, he must implement much more complex function 01:03:25 the original implementation in your reader is 100 lines of code. If user hooks into package-prefix, then it will be something like hash table lookup. "foo" -> "full-name-of-package-foo", "boo" -> "full-name-of-the-boo-package" 01:07:20 so .. what is wrong with the cl-package-aliases code then? without patching things, It could be set up for a custom *READTABLE* very easily .. and uses such a hash table ... 01:08:48 so, in specific, why is it not usable for such a thing? I am quite interested having recently started using packages a lot more frequently. 01:09:07 pjb: so, how easy it is to have COM.INFORMATIMAGO.COMMON-LISP.LISP-READER.READER working exactly as CL reader, i.e. interning symbols into cl:*package*, respecting cl:*readtable*, cl:*read-base*, etc? 01:09:40 as soon as we have this, we can use different hooks, because it is now just our library, not the internals of the implementation 01:09:59 -!- nikodem [~mikey@user-46-112-167-197.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:10:37 drewc: cl-package-aliases is not wrong, but it always patches implenentation 01:11:54 is the person who runs cliki.net here? 01:12:03 clone_of_saturn: y 01:12:35 many of the download pages e.g. http://www.cliki.net/FIVEAM?download are giving me an error 01:13:51 antonv: and so you want to re-create the 265 line file that implements the aliases rather then use it for a custom readtable ... so I am interested as to what is wrong with it? 01:15:04 antonv: this is what it does by default. 01:15:36 drewc: I dont' want to reimplement, I just want to find propose a CDR with reader hook, so that aliases will work without patching 01:15:54 pjb: aha, good 01:16:10 https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/common-lisp/lisp-reader/reader.lisp#line974 01:16:12 clone_of_saturn: interesting. Do me a favour? remove the download link from the FIVEAM page or wherever you found it, and go to http://www.quicklisp.org/ and use it 01:16:28 because it has these various files: package-fun.lisp, package-def.lisp, so I didn't get yet how it is intended to be used 01:16:45 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.178.219.213] has joined #lisp 01:17:47 antonv: There may be some problems with the implementations, in that they may use their lisp reader with extensions to read eg. their fasl files. But then, they can easily use their internal reader instead of going thru the hook for those streams. In anycase, it should depend on the *readtable*. 01:18:06 (readtable-reader-function *readtable*) 01:18:25 Well, it's strange, since the reader function could ignore the *readtable*. So no. 01:18:27 antonv: so you want http://paste.lisp.org/display/133561 ? 01:19:33 pjb: "it should depend on the *readtable*" - what "it"? 01:19:52 drewc: yes, but I am rethinking it to another hook 01:21:10 antonv: never mind, it's wrong. 01:21:49 drewc: so is asdf-install completely broken/dead now? 01:21:53 ok, well, if you can, please show me the code when you are 'finished' with it, ... because I really do not understand what you want that is different from what is already out there, so the code might help me grasp what it is you desire :) 01:22:18 LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has joined #lisp 01:23:32 DO NOT ASK AROUND ABOUT HOW TO GET IT RUNNING. oops, sorry 01:23:34 clone_of_saturn: it may not be dead. and may even work for 10% of things without an issue... but for all intents and purposes, I have not used it since 2009 or so.... so in my mind it is passed away... as for others, they might say yes. borken. 01:24:10 yeah, i just tried using it after not really using cl for a few years 01:24:32 i'll just install quicklisp now 01:24:39 quicklisp is the future. 01:24:51 and the present ... 01:25:21 and, and issues you have with it, #quicklisp to the answer! :P 01:26:57 pjb: what function should CL implementation delegate to pluggable reader? I think cl:read, cl:read-delimited-list and , cl:read-preserving-whitespace should be delegated, right? 01:27:32 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:28:33 Yuuhi`` [benni@p548397C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:52 and it should be guaranteed, that when pluggable reader is in effect, other functions like cl:read-from-string, cl:compile-file work using cl:read, cl:read-delimited-list and cl:read-preserving-whitespace (so that cl:read-from-string and friends are also customized by the pluggable reader) 01:30:10 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A695.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:31:21 antonv: Actually, it's rather complicated, because some reader macros need to call it too! 01:31:56 That is, the reader macro for #\( needs to read tokens, since it has to scan the dot of a dotted list. 01:32:04 pjb: but they should call cl:read-delimited-list 01:32:04 read-delimited-list doesn't read dotted lists. 01:32:28 The standard #\( reader macro cannot call cl:read-delimited-list. 01:33:23 let me think... 01:38:04 so, the standard #\( reader macro uses parts of the standard reader which are not exposed in the CL reader API 01:38:14 Yes. 01:38:25 Or duplicates the functionality. 01:38:42 (if you want to implement a standard #\( reader macro). 01:38:50 upon which I hoped to design the hook interface.. 01:39:14 Which is the reason why we need a hook into the lisp reader. 01:40:28 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:40:43 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:41:06 ok, thanks for the info. I need to absorb it 01:41:20 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:24 it's a pity that replacing lisp reader is not so easy 01:41:45 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:50 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 01:44:59 Well, it just means the implementation must call the hook in its #\( reader macro too. 01:45:30 But also, implementations have always been free not to use CL:READ to CL:LOAD a file for example. 01:46:14 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.178.219.213] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:46:59 pjb: maybe #\( macro uses read-delimited-list, receives the list with dots as symbols, and then interpret dots somehow? 01:47:43 i.e. interprets them to translate to cons cells 01:47:54 No, this is not possible. If it was, you could read a single dot with read-delimited-list too. 01:47:57 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:38 -!- Kvaks_ [~kvaks@149.159.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:49:55 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:50:25 (with-input-from-string (stream " a . b }") (read-delimited-list #\} stream)) ; produces a read-error on all implementations (but on ccl, which is not conforming, I'll report the bug). 01:52:44 then to have pluggable reader, it is necessary to supply full read-table with the reader 01:54:08 Ah, well. Reading clhs read-delimited-list again, I notice that they only use the term "list" which in the glossary includes dotted lists. Perhaps ccl is the only conforming implementation on this point. 01:54:09 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:55:11 )))) 01:55:18 The readtable can be accessed thru the cl:*readtable* special variable, but indeed, the CDR should specify that it should not be masked by the code calling the hook. 01:56:39 Well, no. The second paragraph clearly enough describes the algorithm of read-delimited-list, and it doesn't involve dots. 01:56:58 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:16 So I think we should consider ccl's behavior as an extension of CL, and the bug is in the documentation of ccl. 02:02:35 What is being discussed, pjb+ 02:02:37 *? 02:06:02 lisp reader hooks. 02:06:31 Corvidium: (with-input-from-string (stream " a . b }") (read-delimited-list #\} stream)) ; produces a read-error on all implementations (but not on ccl where it reads a dotted list). 02:07:15 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:08 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:11 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:12:13 gendl [~gendl@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:03 -!- johnstorey [~johnstore@adsl-76-254-35-109.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:14:28 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:19:18 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c1b36.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:11 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 02:21:50 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 02:22:44 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75ce84.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:25:33 -!- urandom__ [~user@p54B0E66D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:27:58 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:28:23 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:28:42 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:48 -!- tetzco [~tetzco@2001:a60:1218:1001:226:bbff:fe03:b2e9] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:29:01 tetzco [~tetzco@ppp-93-104-28-17.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 02:29:03 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686757.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:31:33 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:31:55 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:57 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:33:03 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 02:33:14 codygman [~codygman@pool-173-74-60-248.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:24 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:27 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:41 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279585004.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:34:28 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:34:30 I'm trying to print the contents of a list and I want the format string to use "is" if the string doesn't end in an s, otherwise use are. I'm not quite sure how to do that with format. 02:35:56 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:12 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:51 codygman: can't do that with format 02:38:16 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:36 stassats`: Alright, I had a feeling I couldn't. 02:38:45 can do that with format, trivially. 02:38:57 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:39:11 pjb: Really? Would you mind showing an example? 02:39:29 (format t "~{~A ~:*~/is-or-are/ ~A}~%" '((apples red) (orange orange))) 02:39:41 i like the way you say "trivially" 02:39:52 "just write your own format directive, silly!" 02:41:43 (defun cl-user::is-or-are (stream argument colon at &rest ignored) (declare (ignore ignored)) (if (let ((word (prin1-to-string arguments))) (and (plusp (length word)) (char-equal #\s (aref word (1- (length word)))))) "are" "is")) 02:42:43 ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:53 Guest81609 [~rett@64.124.28.131] has joined #lisp 02:43:07 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:43:37 more exactly: (defun cl-user::is-or-are (stream argument colon at &rest ignored) (declare (ignore 02:43:37 ignored at)) (princ (if (let ((word (prin1-to-string argument))) (and (plusp (length word)) (char-equal #\s (aref word (1- (length word)))))) (if colon "aren't" "are") (if colon "isn't" "is")) stream)) 02:43:43 (format t "~:{~A ~:*~/is-or-are/ ~A~%~}" '((apples red) (orange orange))) 02:43:58 (format t "~:{~A ~:*~:/is-or-are/ ~A~%~}" '((apples red) (orange orange))) 02:44:02 Try both ;-) 02:45:17 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:45 pjb: Thanks! I think our versions of trivially are different, seeing as I'm not enlightened yet. 02:46:18 loving lisp so far though :D 02:47:03 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:47:17 Quark__ [~rett@64.124.28.131] has joined #lisp 02:48:43 my vision of triviality would be (loop for i in list do (princ (if (alexandria:ends-with #\s i) "are" "is"))) 02:49:16 ;; doesn't work with mice, sheep, children and women 02:50:22 stassats`: Or data! 02:51:35 sellout-: does anybody say "data are"? 02:52:15 sure 02:52:18 stassats`: Those who don't have english as a first language? 02:52:22 actually 02:52:22 "this datum is" 02:52:27 "these data are" 02:52:30 antifuchs: Yes 02:52:33 *sellout-* snickers evilly 02:53:04 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:53:17 (in fact, one of my irish co-workers is very keen on this distinction) (: 02:53:32 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:11 also, heh, "mess" (: 02:54:38 well, i don't see how data can be really singular, it's like atom, once you split it, it still consists of some stuff 02:54:59 so, it's plurally singular 02:56:05 i like "data point" better 02:56:39 stassats`: That's only a datum in 1-dimensional space ;) 02:57:08 pjb: http://codepad.org/CeyFl6uf Got an error on that. Missing a brace, trying to figure out what was missing. 02:58:20 i found not being to pluralize/signularize "sheep" to be more inconvenient than "data" 02:58:22 find 02:59:52 paul0 [~vrsmn@177.42.34.27] has joined #lisp 03:04:28 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 03:08:06 minion: memo for antonv: sorry, when I said "step 9", I meant "step 10". 03:08:06 Remembered. I'll tell antonv when he/she/it next speaks. 03:08:56 codygman: I've update the code. See above. 03:10:06 codygman: I was missing a ~ before }. 03:11:11 and 'arguments' should be 'argument' 03:11:25 jeti: I have updated the code, see above! 03:11:45 pjb: Oh, I fixed it and it works perfectly. Thanks for updating though. 03:11:53 :-) 03:13:38 -!- tetzco [~tetzco@ppp-93-104-28-17.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:16:05 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:17:22 codygman: now fix indentation 03:18:25 Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 03:18:37 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:20:21 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:22 Gooder` [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 03:24:55 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 03:27:21 -!- Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:30:09 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:30:19 -!- jeti [~user@p548E9FA6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:36:37 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:39:41 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 03:45:49 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 03:46:03 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:49:53 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 03:50:44 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:53:13 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-194-168.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:56:54 xliweinan [~liweinan@222.130.232.58] has joined #lisp 03:57:49 Guest58143 [~James@75.112.160.197] has joined #lisp 03:58:42 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:29 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [] 04:04:04 -!- benny [~user@i577A7F60.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:06:59 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:27 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.170] has joined #lisp 04:14:10 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@222.130.232.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:16:06 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:22:07 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:23:39 _paul0 [~vrsmn@177.16.148.120] has joined #lisp 04:23:42 -!- paul0 [~vrsmn@177.42.34.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:26:14 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 04:30:59 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:31:08 brazilianguy [~idonteven@187.113.55.66] has joined #lisp 04:31:42 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.176.22] has joined #lisp 04:32:00 -!- merk_ [~tmanny@31.45.209.134] has quit [Quit: merk_] 04:38:40 momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573a34.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:43:20 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:43:37 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 04:44:21 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:45:20 -!- momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573a34.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has left #lisp 04:50:28 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 04:52:54 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.176.22] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:54:04 -!- _paul0 [~vrsmn@177.16.148.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:54:08 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 05:01:11 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 05:01:32 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 05:01:32 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:52 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 05:12:21 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:13:47 -!- ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:15:22 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:16:45 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 05:16:55 slime-lispy [~other@109.205.252.154] has joined #lisp 05:16:59 hello 05:21:37 i don't know if it right channel to ask but after installation of slime i can get "CL-USER" prompt, only "*" form inferior lisp, how can i get to slime-repl? 05:23:02 Oh, M-x slime-repl did the trick, but is it possible to autostart slime-repl at M-x slime? 05:23:36 (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) 05:23:37 in your .emacs 05:23:40 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:24:41 sykopomp: it poduces "Symbol's function definition is void: slime-presentation-id" error 05:25:05 ...how did you install it? 05:25:31 sykopomp: http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Installation.html#Installation 05:25:59 -!- Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.110.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:26:04 use quicklisp-slime-helper 05:26:33 Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.102.68] has joined #lisp 05:26:51 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.176.22] has joined #lisp 05:26:54 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 05:28:45 ohman [~idonteven@177.17.150.59] has joined #lisp 05:29:10 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:29:49 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:31:11 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:31:28 -!- brguy [~idonteven@187.113.55.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:32:06 -!- brazilianguy [~idonteven@187.113.55.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:34:08 brazilianguy [~idonteven@177.17.147.164] has joined #lisp 05:34:38 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:35:28 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:36:32 -!- ohman [~idonteven@177.17.150.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:36:43 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:37:17 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:20 -!- Vicfred [~Futaba@189.232.24.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:41:34 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:41:51 -!- brazilianguy [~idonteven@177.17.147.164] has left #lisp 05:44:40 sykopomp: thanks, it did the trick. Was trippy character animation removed from slime? 05:46:25 (http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/vnc2swf/slime.html shortly after he types "slime") 05:54:35 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.177.88] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 05:54:50 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.226] has joined #lisp 05:59:10 dengyz [~dengyz@59.46.63.130] has joined #lisp 06:00:29 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.180.61] has joined #lisp 06:00:39 to enable animation use (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-banner)) 06:03:41 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:05:10 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:00 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 06:09:15 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 06:11:50 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.154.115] has joined #lisp 06:13:31 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-162-165-225.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:15:44 DrCode_ [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 06:18:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:18:22 -!- slime-lispy [~other@109.205.252.154] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:18:28 -!- DrCode_ is now known as DrCode 06:18:31 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 06:19:15 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:11 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 06:22:53 k0001 [~k0001@host104.190-226-196.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 06:26:22 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 06:27:13 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 06:31:34 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:32:27 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:35:26 macro-syntax [~other@109.205.252.154] has joined #lisp 06:36:58 hello again, how can i do the same in common lisp http://paste.lisp.org/display/134422 ? 06:37:10 -!- substitute [~substitut@97-113-98-140.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:37:28 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.226] has joined #lisp 06:38:05 loop 06:38:08 basicly what i want is multiword functions like "for element in list" without symbols and such 06:38:12 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h94-75-34-47.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 06:38:29 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:39:31 "without symbols"? 06:42:15 Bike: i mean "for element in list" without odd characters like ':'/"'" 06:42:54 in sceme its simple as i pasted but in CL i can even imagine how to do it 06:42:56 (loop for element in list do ...) 06:43:00 -!- karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:43:30 Bike: i just need an exapme how to do such macros 06:44:03 macro-syntax: no, you just need to understand how cl macros work 06:44:10 you could look at loop's implementation, or... (defmacro for (element in list &body body) (declare (ignore in)) `(mapcar (lambda (,element) ,@body) ,list)) 06:44:13 just do what Bike suggested ... 06:44:29 macro-syntax: basically, your macro needs to destructure the argument according to its liking. 06:44:55 the scheme example is of course about the same but with less commas. 06:45:19 karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:46:10 Bike: oh i see, so to make "useless" words in function just for eyecandy i have to use (ignode), right? 06:46:20 ignore* 06:47:08 I guess. That's not really the style. In loop (which is the only standard macro to use a syntax like that, I think) the prepositions are used to distinguish different loop types. 06:47:19 and what if i want to make such "useless" words(like 'in') mandatory? 06:47:35 (assert (eq in 'in)) 06:48:07 ok, thanks a lot 06:49:11 a bit harder and uglier then in scheme :) 06:49:23 but ignore doesn't mean it's not part of the call syntax, it's just telling the compiler that the binding won't be used in the body. you'd have to call my first definition like (for x in '(1 2 3)) (or (for y fensel (fun)) since there's no discrimination) 06:49:27 if you say so. 06:51:49 macro-syntax: Scheme seems elegant than CL, but few applications developed using Scheme compared with CL 06:52:25 sw2wolf: yeah :/ 06:53:07 few applications developed using CL compared with PHP ;; just joking :) 06:53:17 i feel Scheme is a classroom language :) 06:59:55 stassats`: hey would you like to see a book cover concept for this thing i'm workingon ? 06:59:56 -!- 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pnpuff [~Dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 07:54:40 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 07:56:41 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:50 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:05:25 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:06:53 -!- ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.212] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:07:06 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 08:10:26 -!- Guest58143 [~James@75.112.160.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:13:01 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:15:50 meiji11` [~user@d50-99-49-90.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 08:19:03 -!- meiji11 [~user@d50-99-49-90.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:20:12 i don't understand the difference between HUNCHENTOOT:SCRIPT-NAME* vs HUNCHENTOOT:SCRIPT-NAME (without the *)... the documentation says the latter are only for users who want to subclass REQUEST, but i'm wondering why 2 versions are needed... 08:20:12 robot-beethoven, memo from Vivitron: re: readtable customization: http://paste.lisp.org/display/134378 08:20:51 -!- pnpuff [~Dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 08:23:11 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 08:26:03 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.194.222] has joined #lisp 08:27:31 cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-11-42.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:27:53 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:29:19 cfy` [~cfy@183.140.234.184] has joined #lisp 08:30:02 yeboot [~quote@c-98-234-17-207.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:22 how many dialects of lisp are there 08:30:44 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:30:47 merk_ [~tmanny@31.45.209.134] has joined #lisp 08:32:20 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:34:22 yeboot: a number, but there are some more notable ones like common lisp, scheme and clojure 08:34:23 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.154.115] has left #lisp 08:34:23 -!- meiji11` [~user@d50-99-49-90.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34:44 this channel is for common lisp 08:35:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-84.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:35:49 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 08:35:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-84.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:42:59 -!- hpd [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:43:29 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 08:43:40 -!- cfy` is now known as cfy 08:43:44 -!- cfy [~cfy@183.140.234.184] has quit [Changing host] 08:43:44 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 08:56:08 I gonna write a macro match-pattern expr (pattern_1 body_1) (pattern_2 body_2) .. (pattern_n body_n) that evaluates expr and then tries to match the result against pattern_i. 08:56:17 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:56:32 I need to be able to run : 08:56:36 (match-pattern '((foo bar) foo baz) 08:56:36 ((one two three) `(:three ,one ,two ,three)) 08:56:36 ((car . car) `(:cons ,car ,car))) 08:57:14 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 08:57:44 Im just started with trying to print all patterns with this: 08:57:49 (defmacro match-pattern (expr &body body) 08:57:49 `(loop (when t ,(first body)) 08:57:49 ,nil)) 08:58:19 Why did you expect that to work? 08:59:09 My question is, how do i extract all the patterns from body? 08:59:26 Just getting badly lamda expression 08:59:51 (loop for stmt in body do (print (first body))) 09:00:12 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:38 er, (print (first stmt)) of course. 09:01:45 nilsi: why would you extract them? 09:02:09 James [~James@75.112.160.196] has joined #lisp 09:02:33 -!- James is now known as Guest47961 09:02:40 merk_: Cause I then planned to compare them with expr in a comparison function that i gonna write 09:02:55 jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-37-51.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:02:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-84.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:02:58 And if they match i will apply that expr in body 09:03:10 the body for that pattern 09:03:30 Or shall i compare them directly in the macro maybe? 09:03:51 Macros is kinda confusing me at the momemt 09:04:18 they're just functions that are executed at compile-time and have their return values inserted into the compiled code. 09:04:23 maybe I did not understand, but why not just bind them in let? (let ((one ...) (two ...) ..) 09:05:34 your macro should expand to (let ((one ...) (two ...)) ,@body) 09:05:42 -!- Guest47961 [~James@75.112.160.196] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:06:08 no, the expansion has to figure out which pattern matches first. 09:06:26 fantasti` [~user@116.237.215.22] has joined #lisp 09:07:06 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:07:36 merk_: yea like Bike said 09:07:51 Bike so? in the end macro should expand to that 09:09:13 -!- fantasticsid [~user@216.240.135.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:12:32 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 09:19:21 tetzco [~tetzco@2001:a60:1218:1001:226:bbff:fe03:b2e9] has joined #lisp 09:19:28 hpd [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 09:20:00 benny [~user@i577A824F.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:24:39 Okey, what i got now is this: 09:24:44 (defmacro match-pattern (expr &body body) 09:24:44 (let ((expr expr))) 09:24:44 (loop for stmt in body do (if (match (first stmt) expr) (print (second stmt)))) 09:24:45 ) 09:25:05 I tried to use the let because i have to evaluate expr 09:25:21 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-60-104.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:25:47 My match dont work because it compares '((foo bar) foo baz) with (one two three) 09:26:17 Wich will return true if '((foo bar) foo baz) would be evaluated to ((foo bar) foo baz) 09:27:04 Yea i maybe forgot but this that i posted before: 09:27:07 (match-pattern '((foo bar) foo baz) 09:27:08 ((car . car) `(:cons ,car ,car)) 09:27:08 ((one two three) `(:three ,one ,two ,three))) 09:27:16 Shall return: 09:27:16 (:THREE (FOO BAR) FOO BAZ) 09:28:16 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:30:05 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-37-51.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:30:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-51.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:30:56 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-126-23.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:32:38 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:36:12 nilsi: http://paste.lisp.org/ <--- please do not paste code in the channel. 09:36:16 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 09:36:21 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:39:02 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 09:39:54 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-78-23.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:40:04 phadthai thanks, although I'm answering an hour later 09:46:23 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:50:03 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 09:50:24 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 09:51:06 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:51:46 -!- fantasti` [~user@116.237.215.22] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:54:56 -!- 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255 seconds] 10:33:15 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:35:28 -!- Gooder` [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:38 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:19 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:38:29 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-69-67.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:38:52 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:39:35 nikodem [~mikey@user-164-126-132-206.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:41:04 Does someone know how to assign for example (one two three) to '(foo bar baz)? so one gets the value foo, two gets bar and so on? 10:41:43 hydan [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:43:34 your quetsion doesn't make much sense to me.. maybe you want (setf (values one two three) (values-list '(foo bar baz))) 10:45:50 Kaisyu [~Kaisyu@183.109.111.173] has joined #lisp 10:49:27 adeht: It did cause that exactly what i wanted, thanks 10:49:46 pnpuff [~Dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 10:52:36 agumonkey [~agu@183.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:19 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:04:28 merk_ [~tmanny@31.45.209.134] has joined #lisp 11:05:16 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:05:50 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:47 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:10:32 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:14:23 glassyd [~william@lab75-6-88-185-126-20.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:59 -!- merk_ [~tmanny@31.45.209.134] has quit [Quit: merk_] 11:18:45 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.159.98] has quit [Quit: Cya!] 11:22:46 -!- stat_vi 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#lisp 12:35:29 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:10 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has joined #lisp 12:42:16 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 12:45:01 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-194-168.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:46:24 -!- Bacteria_ [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria_] 12:50:22 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.176.62] has joined #lisp 12:52:34 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-006-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:07 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 13:00:08 astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-235-122.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:48 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:04:18 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 13:17:23 Hello everybody! 13:17:53 I'm newcomer and have Python background. 13:18:38 -!- cfy` is now known as cfy 13:18:39 -!- cfy [~ilisp@183.140.234.184] has quit [Changing host] 13:18:39 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:19:01 Now I'm struggling with debugging lisp code. 13:19:44 Is there in Lisp something like python's pdb.set_trace()? To invoke interactive debugger at given code line. 13:19:46 What implementation and what development environment are you using? 13:19:53 I'm using sbcl 13:20:02 And vim + slimv 13:20:06 (break) will invoke the debugger 13:20:57 You might want to put (declaim (optimize (debug 2))) at the top of your source file 13:21:34 I've never used slimv. Most people here use Emacs and Slime. 13:22:12 Personally I usually use function tracing (where entering/exiting a traced function is printed), and printf style debugging. 13:23:04 Great, (break) works, but it just show me a stack trace and few options in the separate vim buffer :( 13:23:05 First I figure out from the backtrace where the error was signalled. Then looking at the backtrace if I can reconstruct a function call from a frame that will result in the error again 13:24:01 Well, I have no error right now. I just want to investigate drakma:http-request's behaviour. 13:24:08 k0001 [~k0001@host104.190-226-196.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 13:24:50 I'd look into its source file. The key combination M-. (or 'v' in the debugger on a frame) would bring me to the right source line. I do not about slimv. 13:25:45 _paul0 [~vrsmn@177.16.148.120] has joined #lisp 13:27:43 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:48 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:28:21 http-request's sources too vague for me. I'm learning lisp 5 days. 13:29:11 When I'm trying to execute GET request with parameters, it says Don't know how to handle parameters in (("geocode" ",  45")), as this is not a POST request. 13:30:45 But from sources, I found, it should report this error only if there is at least one parameter which is not nil or string. 13:31:33 Here is the full call: (drakma:http-request *geocoder-url* :parameters '("geocode" ",   1")) 13:32:04 Where (defparameter *geocoder-url* "http://geocode-maps.yandex.ru/1.x/?format=json&results=1") 13:33:54 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 13:34:50 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 13:36:44 -!- _paul0 [~vrsmn@177.16.148.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:38:53 LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has joined #lisp 13:44:29 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 13:44:49 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 13:45:06 arrk13 [~arrakis24@78-3-42-15.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:47:26 hello, I'd like to somehow define my own stream functions, to use with (format my-stream "string"), so that everything sent to this stream is neither a file, or IO, but to some functions I define. 13:47:41 what... would be the most common way or library to do that? 13:49:11 arrk13: trivial-gray-stream 13:49:21 streams* 13:50:31 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 13:50:32 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 13:51:51 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:26 daimrod: thanks. do you know any project that uses this lib, so I can look at how they use it? 13:53:28 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:54:49 brguy [~idonteven@187.113.52.212] has joined #lisp 13:57:03 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host104.190-226-196.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:57:47 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 13:57:51 svetlyak40wt: :parameters takes an alist, a list made of cons cells. E.g. '(("foo" . "bar")) 13:57:52 arrk13: nop, but you can look at the gray streams documentation of different implementations (SBCL, Clozure CL, ...), they often have examples. 13:58:16 arrk13: e.g. http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Gray-Streams-examples.html#Gray-Streams-examples 13:59:59 thanks. another question: how is the syntax "#+sbcl" called? 14:00:19 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:01:08 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:09 arrk13: swank-gray.lisp (part of slime) shows how to define a stream with a function attached to it that is called whenever an internal buffer is full or finish-output is called on the stream 14:01:31 arrk13: Syntax is not called. Function objects are called. 14:01:44 Sorry, you mean what is its name? 14:02:04 #+foo is usually referred to as "reader conditionals" 14:02:15 tcr, i meant I'd like to google what "#+" and "#-" means, but i cant get meaningful results without a name. 14:02:28 ah, ok, thats what i looked for. 14:02:59 Right, in case you are using Slime, you could use C-c C-d # to lookup reader macro characters 14:03:11 svetlyak40wt: I have (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'debug 2) at the beginning of my .sbclrc file. This gives a lot of additional information while debugging. 14:03:21 arrk13: you can use l1sp.org 14:03:24 svetlyak40wt: you'll need to recompile everything, though. 14:06:33 tcr: thank you for help! Now it working! 14:07:11 prxq: do you mean, that I have to reload all code? 14:07:23 recompile it 14:07:27 and reload it 14:07:42 so that the debug settings are used when compiling 14:07:56 prxq: how to recompile? 14:08:12 remove all .fasl files, and load again. 14:08:30 .fasl files are the object files of sbcl 14:09:22 then some of the frames in the backtrace do provide lots of additional info 14:09:39 I think that touching the files should also work (to recompile). 14:09:44 svetlyak40wt: i don't know about slimv, but under slime, many frames appear green 14:09:56 these have lots of additional info. 14:11:35 prxq: I've got it. Thank you! 14:12:11 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:27 Well, the green just indicates that the frames are restartable. It happens to concede with leaving original binding names around 14:15:53 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:15:55 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-005-153.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 14:17:44 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-18-48.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:23:45 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m212-152-11-221.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 14:23:47 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:50 tcr: restartable how? 14:23:57 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 14:26:10 pressing 'r' with point on the frame 14:27:00 ok, so I can redefine a function that's called from that frame, and have trt happening? 14:30:38 yes 14:30:55 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:33:25 great! 14:37:52 hi 14:39:01 how can I extract a character from a string in a particular position? 14:39:27 char, aref, elt, schar 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quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:06:44 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 18:06:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-153.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:07:49 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@87.67.75.32] has joined #lisp 18:07:49 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@87.67.75.32] has quit [Changing host] 18:07:49 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:12:03 -!- carbocation [~carbocati@li44-77.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:12:19 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 18:14:14 -!- arrk13 [~arrakis24@78-3-42-15.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has left #lisp 18:24:06 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 18:28:59 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:12 is it true that remove-if-not is deprecated? 18:30:16 -!- Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:30:50 pdponze [~pierre@37.0.45.21] has joined #lisp 18:31:02 it is 18:31:17 according to the spec....but it's used still...... 18:32:18 i think the compiler will emit a warning message and transform that to another expression or so..... 18:34:02 what a mess first(1*sin(x-t)) gives x-t and first(0.9*sin(x-t)) gives 0.9 in maxima....... 18:34:29 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:04 i was using the latter function by chance, so all list operations on it worked like expected, but then later discovered with another func that some things were failing.... 18:35:29 well anyway......sorry for being offtopic 18:35:40 -!- hydan [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:23 Ralt_: it's not deprecated 18:37:46 hm 18:37:52 who's right? :P 18:37:59 i am, of course 18:38:12 Kvaks [~kvaks@149.159.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:38:59 passing it as a test function is ? there was something like that about the not forms of some........ 18:39:13 because I find it painful if it's deprecated. I have a simple (remove-if-not #'(lambda (b) (eq #xfc b)) 'bytes) where I'd just add some overhead if not using it 18:39:30 it's not deprecated, seriously 18:39:33 I'd have to use (complement) or (not (eq))... 18:39:43 snearch [~snearch@f053003244.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:39:45 rastapastanon [~tux@c33-169.i07-9.onvol.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:49 alright, thanks :) 18:39:59 first of all, the deprecation notices in CLHS don't mean a thing, since there's no new standard on the horizon 18:40:28 but even if it were true, it'd become undeprecated in the next standard 18:40:43 haha, ok 18:41:04 I'm used to the filter function in most other languages 18:41:26 (remove #xFC bytes :test-not #'eq) might be better 18:41:42 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0022dc.pool.mediaways.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:45 remove is non destructive? 18:41:50 correct 18:41:53 nice 18:42:11 I always forget about those "options"... 18:43:10 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:25 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:43:55 why do you need to remove anything but #xFC? you'll just end up with a sequence full of #xFC? 18:45:21 in other words, what are you going to do with the result? 18:48:35 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-kjyzlejkxfoquecy] has joined #lisp 18:48:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-153.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:48:49 bloody pathnames, sbcl's inability to parse filenames containing [] bites me again 18:48:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-153.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:49:40 i should get a stuffed dummy named "pathnames" and beat it periodically 18:50:51 add^_ [~add^_@m212-152-11-221.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 18:50:56 exit 18:50:59 -!- rastapastanon [~tux@c33-169.i07-9.onvol.net] has left #lisp 18:51:55 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has joined #lisp 18:52:10 -!- pnpuff [~Dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:52:50 (pathname "/b[x.f]") it thinks that .f] is the extension and complains about #\[ not being matched up with #\] 18:53:51 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:55:18 sb-ext:parse-native-namestring works fine, is there a portable library which parses pathnames without CL crazinesses? 18:56:28 yes, and it is called iolib 18:56:59 well, not the whole different pathnames, but something which calls sb-ext:parse-native-namestring on SBCL and so on 18:57:59 teslalamp [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 18:59:08 kilon` [~user@193.92.230.120.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:00:02 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:29 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:35 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:42 -!- kilon` is now known as kilon 19:01:41 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-153.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:01:57 stassats, xcvb-driver:parse-native-namestring does a best effort 19:02:02 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:35 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-153.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:02:36 well, something which isn't a part of a build-system would be nicer 19:05:08 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:06:29 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-kjyzlejkxfoquecy] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:07:17 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:30 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:07:45 kofno_ [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:08:09 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-162-165-225.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:09:02 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] 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[~brad@c-98-253-8-204.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:19 quick question, I need a small, fast and fairly simple linear algebra library for OpenGL. What would be the best library? 21:00:12 <|3b|> sb-cga? 21:01:12 LAMMJohnson [~john@user-5AF432F7.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:35 sb-cga...I don't even see it on cliki. 21:02:06 But it's in quicklisp! 21:02:07 https://github.com/nikodemus/sb-cga google 21:02:44 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:56 mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 21:08:00 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD781E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:10:29 kanru`` [~kanru@62-50-219-183.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:39 kilon_alios [~kilon@193.92.230.120.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 21:14:40 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@193.92.230.120.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:11 AeroNotix [~xeno@abos192.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:18:36 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 21:19:51 jeti`` [~user@p548E998F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:52 Blkt [~user@82.84.159.98] has joined #lisp 21:23:13 -!- jeti` [~user@p548E9FA6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:23:22 Well, close to useless, since it's specific to an implementation. 21:23:33 -!- tetzco [~tetzco@2001:a60:1218:1001:226:bbff:fe03:b2e9] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:24:23 docs say it works portably, just uses implementation hooks if it can. 21:25:32 -!- brguy [~idonteven@187.113.52.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:54 -!- Vicfred [~Futaba@189.232.24.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:26:48 hi 21:27:05 tetzco1 [~tetzco@2001:a60:1218:1001:226:bbff:fe03:b2e9] has joined #lisp 21:27:22 I wanted to prototype a game using the blackthorn-engine. But... it's so... undocumented :( 21:27:57 (blackthorn-engine runs on common lisp) 21:28:04 -!- tetzco1 [~tetzco@2001:a60:1218:1001:226:bbff:fe03:b2e9] has quit [Client Quit] 21:30:14 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:31:03 Denommus: well, I look forward to reading the docs you will create then! thanks :) 21:32:22 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:31 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 21:34:23 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 21:36:11 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:21 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:40:10 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:43:32 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:43:49 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:57 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