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01:10:39 jasom: C-c C-v M-o (slime-clear-presentations) 01:10:41 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@54.247.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 01:10:54 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.201.206] has joined #lisp 01:10:59 Thra11 [~thrall@54.247.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:06 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14:27 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:15:14 -!- Jubb [~ghost@c-98-204-178-191.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25:26 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:25 Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:49 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 01:27:12 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest97627 01:29:49 or just C-c M-o, together with clearing all the output 01:30:17 agumonkey [~agu@183.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:54 -!- Guest97627 [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:31:43 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-24-13-250-216.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:23 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable107.197-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:32:43 Hum. How to change my password on cliki.net? I can only change my email address?? 01:33:57 How do programs like apache listen on port 80 without root privelages? 01:34:30 Crap. Wrong channel. Sorry. 01:34:42 jack_rabbit: I was wondering; 01:35:01 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@54.247.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:10 capabilities is one way 01:35:21 stassats`, Is that fully implemented? 01:35:25 jack_rabbit: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/413807/is-there-a-way-for-non-root-processes-to-bind-to-privileged-ports-1024-on-l 01:35:46 jack_rabbit: it requires both kernel and FS support IIRc 01:36:10 jack_rabbit: by what? 01:36:59 stassats`, I read about capabilities in a forum while I was searching for a solution, and the user mentioned that the capabilities system wasn't complete. 01:37:15 jack_rabbit: but a common way is to run as root and then switch users after binding port 01:37:26 jack_rabbit: well it works for listening on 80 01:37:41 jasom, Thanks. Is that what apache does, do you know? 01:37:49 stassats`, I'll check it out then. 01:39:48 jack_rabbit: not sure, it's what mongrel2 does (you run it as root, and it drops privelages to the UUID of the chroot directory 01:40:28 -!- tvaalen_ [~r@67.217.170.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:40:52 -!- gigamonkey [~textual@50.1.48.145] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:40:53 -!- gigamonk_ is now known as gigamonkey 01:41:05 jasom, Whichever. I'll check out your and stassats` suggestions and get my off-topic topic off the channel. Thanks a bunch. 01:41:08 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:41:13 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:20 tvaalen [~r@67.217.170.35] has joined #lisp 01:42:16 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:42:44 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 01:43:24 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:28 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 01:46:17 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable107.197-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:48:18 -!- tvaalen [~r@67.217.170.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:24 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 01:52:24 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:52:48 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host160.186-109-109.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:53:29 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 01:54:14 k0001 [~k0001@host85.186-109-109.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 01:56:25 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:58:35 -!- ase [~se@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:59:39 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03:29 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:12 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:06:57 -!- Oejet [~Oejet@unaffiliated/oejet] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:14:27 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:15:00 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:18:43 -!- Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.111.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:24 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:08 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 02:29:51 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 02:32:16 substitute [~substitut@97-113-98-140.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:21 tvaal [~r@67.217.170.35] has joined #lisp 02:34:26 pocket [~masato@p37116-ipngn1301sapodori.hokkaido.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:36:13 Is there any simple way to get array of instance ? 02:36:19 make-array with initial-element does evaluate value only once. 02:37:05 So if I specified (make-instance 'foo) to :initial-element then I got array of same-instance. 02:37:23 -!- paul0 [~vrsmn@177.42.34.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:38:11 I can do it with look and :initial-contents. but I feel it's not simple :-( 02:38:21 s/look/loop/ 02:41:20 pocket: i don't know of any other way than initial-contents, or looping over it after creating it. 02:41:30 the latter may be more efficient 02:41:51 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 02:43:09 (map-into (make-array 10) (lambda () (make-instance 'foo))) 02:43:21 miql [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:29 deckeraa_ [~aaron@97-83-167-14.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:43:29 tessier_ [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 02:43:42 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:43:43 killerbo1 [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 02:43:49 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-12-55.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:44:09 -!- killerbo1 is now known as killerboy 02:44:11 Hm... 02:44:16 drewc_ [~drewc@50.7.166.100] has joined #lisp 02:44:39 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h88-206-143-196.vokby.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:44:39 -!- jeti` [~user@p54A1EAB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:44:39 -!- nowhereman_ 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*.split] 02:44:52 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-gtromargzsbvmnuf] has joined #lisp 02:45:00 felideon [~felideon@199.241.28.84] has joined #lisp 02:45:18 confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:36 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@88.206.143.196] has joined #lisp 02:46:05 Thank you all I'll use map-into ! 02:46:37 gf3 [~gf3@oftn/member/gf3] has joined #lisp 02:47:02 clhs map-into 02:47:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_map_in.htm 02:48:19 -!- tetzco1 [~tetzco@2001:a60:1218:1001:226:bbff:fe03:b2e9] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:48:57 Guest9041 [~jimmy@218.59.110.253] has joined #lisp 02:53:38 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:54:37 pearle [~pearle@drmons0505w-142068231208.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.ns.bellaliant.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:18 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:55:26 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 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[~Unnamed23@232-213-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:03 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:49 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:17:23 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:18:36 H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has joined #lisp 03:19:28 cnl [~pony@bitdiddle.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:42 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 03:21:02 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:44 deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@175.211.184.18] has joined #lisp 03:26:10 How to fix this error? it is normal before http://paste.lisp.org/+2VOZ 03:28:00 pocket [~masato@p37116-ipngn1301sapodori.hokkaido.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:28:13 -!- pocket [~masato@p37116-ipngn1301sapodori.hokkaido.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 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seconds] 06:46:08 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 06:48:55 -!- svs__ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:51:00 Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.110.253] has joined #lisp 06:52:03 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:53:44 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-24-13-250-216.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:56:22 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 06:57:24 CatMtKing [~chrono220@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:49 loke_erc [~user@c-4957e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:59:02 hi guys 07:00:08 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-91-189.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:21 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:00:22 -!- Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.110.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:02:07 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.201.206] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:04:03 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:05:09 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.201.206] has joined #lisp 07:07:27 Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.110.253] has joined #lisp 07:10:31 -!- lambdakitten is now known as lambdacat 07:13:44 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 07:14:08 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 07:14:33 -!- CatMtKing [~chrono220@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:14:53 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:50 -!- Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.110.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:17:28 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:19:59 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:20:07 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-214.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:20:58 Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.110.253] has joined #lisp 07:22:08 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 07:22:25 (concatenate 'string "goooooood" " " "morning") 07:22:29 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.170] has joined #lisp 07:23:03 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.170] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:23:29 rudybot: (string-append "good" "afternoon") 07:23:31 'morning 07:23:32 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.170] has joined #lisp 07:23:49 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:24:45 your sandbox ; Value: "good afternoon" 07:25:20 it seems string-append is easy to keep in mind ? 07:26:12 (format t "Good ~a" (case (floor (nth-value 2 (get-decoded-time)) 6) (0 "night") (1 "morning") (2 "afternoon") (3 "evening"))) 07:26:55 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 07:27:13 p_l: format is VERY powerful 07:27:29 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 07:27:40 ,(get-decoded-time) 07:27:50 considering that's just the same as (concatenate 'string "Good " ...) format doesn't seem too relevant 07:28:09 oh, no bot here ? 07:28:14 no 07:29:10 sw2wolf: #lisp bylaw - no evalbots 07:29:23 at least not ones on channel 07:29:43 -!- Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.110.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:30:08 there is rudybot in #racket which can be used 07:30:41 drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 07:32:17 what does this error mean ? http://paste.lisp.org/display/134387 07:33:18 it means that stumpwm tries to use a function that doesn't exist 07:33:41 but it works before ... 07:33:59 probably you loaded a different xlib 07:33:59 difficult for me to fix 07:34:09 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 07:34:11 sw2wolf: here is your refund 07:34:41 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 07:34:56 sw2wolf: try #stumpwm 07:36:37 tetzco [~tetzco@ppp-188-174-37-246.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 07:37:41 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:37:47 H4ns: have done it, but no answer 07:39:38 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:40:20 Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.110.253] has joined #lisp 07:40:36 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:40:51 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:47:14 -!- Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.110.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:49:23 -!- Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:50:52 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: zajn] 07:51:51 setmeaway [stemearay@119.201.52.235] has joined #lisp 07:52:50 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:55:34 Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.110.253] has joined #lisp 07:56:29 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 08:01:10 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.201.206] has left #lisp 08:04:01 -!- Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.110.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:04:36 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-156-124.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:04:43 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06:36 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.170] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:08:04 -!- cfy is now known as eexpress 08:08:08 I have a few tiny programs that consist of a .asd file and a .lisp file and I use ql:quickload to load. Is there a way to include the stuff from the .asd file in the corresponding .lisp file so I have a single self-contained file? 08:09:24 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has joined #lisp 08:10:09 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-156-124.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:10:11 sigjuice: not really, no. asdf searches only .asd files for system definitions 08:11:48 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:12:09 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has joined #lisp 08:13:50 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:13:54 xliweina_ [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has joined #lisp 08:14:11 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:14:21 -!- xliweina_ [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:56 Is it possible to get rid of the .asd file and have some sort of top-level form in the .lisp file to load dependencies? 08:15:26 -!- am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:15:46 you can just put (asdf:load-systems ...) into the file 08:15:51 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.170] has joined #lisp 08:16:07 Guest9041 [~jimmy@218.59.110.253] has joined #lisp 08:17:05 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has joined #lisp 08:18:15 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 08:19:05 xliweina_ [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has joined #lisp 08:19:34 -!- xliweina_ [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:19:53 xliweina_ [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has joined #lisp 08:20:58 I have (asdf:load-systems #:alexandria) followed by (defpackage ... (:import-from #:alexandria)) at the beginning of my .lisp file. If I hit C-c C-k in Emacs, defpackage fails with 'The name ALEXANDRIA does not designate any package'. 08:21:43 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:22:24 need some eval-whens 08:22:27 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:22:44 it can probably be solved by eval-when, but i'd recommend that you just put all your programs into one asdf system rather than fight your unusual way through. 08:24:16 -!- Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:24:45 -!- xliweina_ [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:24:53 Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has joined #lisp 08:27:09 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:27:32 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:28:11 -!- Guest9041 [~jimmy@218.59.110.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:31:26 agumonkey 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for Emacs)] 11:00:43 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-55-250.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 11:02:02 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl23-24-34.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:04:17 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:06:15 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.93.226] has joined #lisp 11:10:41 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:11:29 Hello, is there any function/macro/rule that expands (def# mth ((a A) (b B))) to (defmethod mth ((a A) (b B))) and (defmethod mth ((b B) (a A)))? 11:12:24 nan_: no 11:13:01 H4ns: thanks, then i should write one 11:13:08 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-151-181.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:13:56 there's cl-def(ine?) which that 11:14:35 nan_: are you sure you *should*? 11:16:10 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-225-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:21 p_l|work: any alternatives? i think you guessed what i was trying to do 11:16:34 ehu` [~ehu@109.37.180.163] has joined #lisp 11:17:43 tcr: if you mean def# that was something imaginary :) 11:17:46 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 11:18:40 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.37.180.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:19:31 b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:22:40 p_l|work: say you are writing an intersection detector if you have only (defmeth intersect sphere box), when you call (intersect box sphere) it won't work. 11:22:46 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:23:30 hmmm... I'm not sure that this approach is good 11:23:46 (of creating multiple methods like that, that is) 11:24:58 i don't know the lisp way sorry, this was something i wanted to be able to do when i was using c++ but it was not quite possible 11:25:05 nan: https://github.com/death/towers/blob/master/utils.lisp#L154 .. of course it could be improved 11:25:20 nan_: well, yeah. It can be quickly written, I guess. 11:25:31 (defgeneric m (a b) (:method ((a c1) (b c2)) (m b a)) (:method ((a c2) (b c1)) (do-something a b))) 11:25:46 at least you seem to have more serious case than typical person coming with "improvement definition macro" 11:26:18 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:26:25 And in general, one of c1 or c2 is T, so that it is commutative for all unspecified classes. 11:26:28 it's not an "improved def", it's a thing for defining methods for commutative operations, yeah? 11:26:58 Bike: yes. But improved def. is starting to be a kneejerk reaction :) 11:27:03 the other thing i could think of would be defining some arbitrary order on classes and only calling (intersect a b) when a adeht: that was it 11:27:15 Well, the problem doing it automatically, is that you'd need an order of the classes, to know what's the base case, and this order is not easy to determine automatically. 11:27:33 p_l|work: i wrote something like adeht's link there once. was just about the same, and i called it "defcomm" because well that's what it was and nothing more 11:27:42 nan: it's used for collision detection in this project, too ;) 11:29:57 Bike: yes not an improved def 11:30:03 pjb [~user@host.34.193.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com] has joined #lisp 11:31:29 pjb-v: you need to know all the types when you write that "defgeneric", right? 11:31:55 nan_: no, you can add methods later with defmethod. 11:33:15 pjb-v: what then "c1" and "c2" in that context? 11:33:23 class one and class two. 11:33:42 two specific classes. 11:33:44 which is the types you already know right? 11:33:46 yes 11:33:49 Yes. 11:34:14 Notice also that for an intersection (union, etc), you could want to be variadic. 11:34:29 And therefore process the various classes homogeneously. 11:34:37 (defun intersection (&rest objects) ) 11:35:20 Well, ok, this would be more a user API, not for the implementation. never mind. 11:37:59 adeht: yeh, looks like not many commutative problems around, i always need this when i am writing simple intersection tests (intersects a b) :) 11:38:26 urandom__ [~user@p54B0EA6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:51 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:42:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:43:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:46:12 jarmond [~user@62-112-178.netrun.cytanet.com.cy] has joined #lisp 11:46:30 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 11:47:06 benny [~user@i577A3F43.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:48:01 -!- Bike [~Glossina@c-24-21-88-250.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:48:56 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 11:55:33 -!- ehu` [~ehu@109.37.180.163] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:10 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 11:56:41 ehu [~ehu@109.37.180.163] has joined #lisp 12:03:11 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.37.180.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:03:15 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:03:51 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:31 deckeraa [~aaron@97-83-167-14.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:09:00 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.28.16] has joined #lisp 12:15:02 segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-242-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:38 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-221-239-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:17:38 Gooder [~user@221.198.103.19] has joined #lisp 12:18:53 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 12:26:42 kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 12:28:48 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has joined #lisp 12:31:26 myx [~myx@pppoe-196-251-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 12:31:44 myx_ [~myx@pppoe-196-251-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 12:33:25 -!- pearle [~pearle@drmons0505w-142068231208.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.ns.bellaliant.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:33:34 -!- urandom__ [~user@p54B0EA6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:36:08 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-196-251-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:40:35 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:42:30 -!- eni is now known as albacker 12:42:34 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:42:35 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 12:44:06 -!- albacker is now known as eni 12:48:48 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:49:06 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:49:23 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.91.1] 12:52:23 felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #lisp 12:52:35 Is there something in the emacs/paredit universe which could add stuff to the declare part of a function definition? declare-symbol-at-point-as-special , or the like? 12:53:01 that would be something in scope of redshank 12:53:07 chr: not AFAICR, but there's redshank you could expand. 12:53:34 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:46 You could implement redshank-add-declaration-in-definition redshank-add-declaration-in-scope and redshank-wrap-locally-and-add-declaration 12:57:40 What would the fictuous redshank-wrap-locally-and-add-declaration do? 12:58:43 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:59:39 with [] indicating the region, -x r-w-l-a-a-d RET special var RET would do: [(incf var)] -> (locally (declare (special var)) [(incf var)]) 12:59:47 s/-x/M-x/ 13:00:12 pjb-v: Thanks for the tip about redshank - last time I looked at it, I thought getting used to paredit was enough -- time has passed, and paredit works fine for me now, so redshank for 2013 it is! 13:00:56 redshank will be great, when all lispers will have contributed a few editing/refactoring commands to it. 13:02:35 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 13:02:41 I did a few. I could try to add a few others, but they'd have to be worked a little more on. I have a command that will update a defpackage form, putting selected symbols on the export list. The trick is to find the right defpackage form! It searches in the current file, in the open buffers and in the sibling files. 13:04:00 Slime does that 13:04:22 Well it didn't do good, for my projects :-/ 13:04:22 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 13:04:44 But right. There may be some sorting out to do between slime, redshank and paredit 13:05:00 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.28.16] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:05:05 there's a contrib slime-package-fu which has a slime-export-symbol-at-point 13:05:12 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:05:34 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:05:58 I can't remember how it works. It might rely on the implementation's M-. on package name to get to the right defpackage form 13:07:47 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:10:35 tcr: it uses several fuzzy techniques 13:12:41 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:12:42 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:13:49 first, M-., then search for the defpackage in the current file, then searching for a package.lisp file 13:15:03 -!- Gooder [~user@221.198.103.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:15:18 -!- jarmond [~user@62-112-178.netrun.cytanet.com.cy] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:15:20 -!- eexpress is now known as cfy 13:15:48 Gooder [~user@221.198.103.19] has joined #lisp 13:16:00 rus [~user@27-33-84-138.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:18:27 -!- rus [~user@27-33-84-138.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #lisp 13:19:51 rus [~user@27-33-84-138.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:19:52 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 13:20:06 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 13:20:40 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.93.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:21:42 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 13:22:48 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:26:35 -!- rus [~user@27-33-84-138.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #lisp 13:27:21 ase [~se@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 13:30:28 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-55-11.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:31:42 -!- bniels [~niels@p4FD6DEE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 13:32:44 Can parenscript translate methods on classes somehow? 13:33:06 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:33:59 I'd think so. 13:34:16 I've not used it for a long time, I don't remember. 13:34:28 But anyways, it should be trivial to write a macro to generate the javascript to define a method. 13:34:53 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757790.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:35:19 pjb-v: but how about dispatching the methods, and the whole other boilerplate that's needed? 13:36:34 flip214: you're writing javascript code with parenscript. 13:36:43 So how do you do that in javascript? 13:37:06 It's not a CLOS class or a CLOS method, it's a Javascript class and a Javascript method. 13:37:46 parenscript is not a lisp-to-javascript translator, it's a javascript-as-sexp-to-javascript thingy, like linj or (the future) linc. 13:37:51 I'm aware of .prototype and storing a method as attribute in the class ... 13:37:53 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24-246-29-8.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 13:38:20 but that would mean that defgeneric would have to do Object.prototype.methodname = function () ... and so on 13:38:23 Yes. So you'd write the same expressions, only in parenscript sexps instead of javascript. 13:38:32 That wouldn't be cl:defgeneric. 13:38:43 js:defmethod or something like that. 13:39:00 If it doesn't exist, then as I said, (defjsmacro js:defmethod ) 13:39:15 _OF COURSE_ I can do that. I meant to ask whether it already _does_. 13:39:40 I don't remember, check the sources/documentation of parenscript. 13:39:57 I'd think it has something. 13:47:58 -!- tetzco [~tetzco@ppp-188-174-37-246.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:48:21 tetzco [~tetzco@2001:a60:1218:1001:226:bbff:fe03:b2e9] has joined #lisp 13:50:47 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:41 -!- Longlius [~quassel@68.170.235.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:17 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:25 -!- `fogus|away is now known as `fogusa 13:54:27 -!- `fogusa is now known as `fogus 13:56:36 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:57:23 Longlius [~Longlius@68.170.235.238] has joined #lisp 14:00:25 pjb-v: thanks. I did already, and found nothing. Still, good to hear that I'm not completely off-track. 14:05:40 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 14:06:09 k0001 [~k0001@host94.200-117-234.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 14:06:14 Ralt [~Ralt@eup38-1-82-247-184-72.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:22 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:10:49 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 14:10:55 -!- b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:10:58 lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:12:38 PaulHarr1s [~smoothop@cor.ms] has joined #lisp 14:13:01 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 14:18:00 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:22:53 jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-214.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:23:39 -!- Gooder [~user@221.198.103.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:24:23 Is there a way to find out currently installed condition handlers? 14:24:34 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:24:56 no 14:25:04 why would there be a need to? 14:25:17 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:39 deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@175.211.184.18] has joined #lisp 14:26:02 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 14:27:18 "I've never needed that before. There can't *be* a valid need." 14:27:27 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-37.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 14:27:27 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-37.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 14:27:27 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 14:28:01 "I need this. I totally know what I'm doing and that what I'm doing is right." 14:28:41 "I might need this. I don't really know what I'm doing but I'm trying to find out whether I could solve some problems this way." 14:28:59 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:21 can you all stop being silly? 14:29:42 anyway, it might be educational - like putting a finger in a socket. 14:29:51 we can try to stop acting silly, but stopping being silly will be difficult 14:30:00 +1 ;) 14:30:28 you should first answer the question, what would you do with it? 14:30:59 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:31:18 well, on second thought I can do something similar by binding a special variable ... but I wanted to know whether this is possible, too. 14:31:32 I like to find limits - perhaps someone builds a bridge 14:31:36 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 14:33:11 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:44 I doning ecore binding with cffi. I see that tests are quite slow so I decided to use time to see what's happening. Why do I have 6.482 seconds of real time, but just 0.280000 seconds of total run time ? 14:34:59 flip214: well, there's kind of a bridge, but it's turtles over turtles. 14:35:06 what those 6.2 seconds are for ? 14:35:32 kiuma: sleeping? 14:35:41 (time (sleep 6.2)) does well 14:36:04 You could run your CLOS method on a CL implementation on a linux system on a x86 processur that runs on javascript http://bellard.org/jslinux/ 14:36:10 pjb-v: what's the name of the first turtle? 14:36:34 Or you could port Butterfly CL (which is a CL written in Scheme) to some scheme targetting javascript. 14:36:36 flip214: Donatello? 14:36:51 pjb-v: thanks. the use-case is defining instances in lisp (database,etc.), getting them to the browser, and then acting on them depending on their class. 14:36:55 agumonkey [~agu@183.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:08 Or you could take ecl, replace gcc by gcc-llvm, generate llvm bytecode, and translate it to javascript with the recent llvm-javascript thingy. 14:37:16 I haven't any sleep lisp command do ecore sleep commands count? 14:37:34 commas, do you use them? 14:38:14 not directly, but I'm testing timers 14:38:35 maybe it could be the sum of each test 14:38:45 it was a curiosity 14:39:12 I don't think it has a name. Perhaps the elephant had one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down 14:40:25 flip214: An alternative would be to give me enough money to motivate leave my current employer, and have me working on an easily retargettable CL implementation that would have (amongst others) a javascript backend. 14:40:38 or pay a sbcl hacker to port it to javascript. 14:41:08 thanks, that really helps! 14:41:12 oh wait, I could pay myself. 14:42:08 flip214: perhaps it was Yertle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yertle_the_Turtle 14:42:45 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:42 what should `#2(,@'(1 2)) return? 14:46:21 jarmond [~user@62-112-178.netrun.cytanet.com.cy] has joined #lisp 14:47:23 #(1 2) on my sbcl 14:47:24 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 14:47:41 mikaelj: your sbcl is too old 14:47:48 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 14:48:04 it has a bug when 2 is disregarded completely when ` is used 14:48:06 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 14:48:32 but the question is what should it return, not what does it return on current implementations 14:49:05 I see. 14:49:39 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:50:57 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:24 i would expect it to return #(1 2) and `#3(,@'(1 2)) => #(1 2 2) 14:53:36 and `#1(,@'(1 2)) => error 14:54:22 -!- kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:48 i would expect `#3(,@'(1 2)) to raise an error 14:56:03 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:56:26 what error? 14:56:53 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-sekbsrnmgudtdvuv] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:59:10 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:28 an error saying that the initial-contents length and the vector length aren't equal. 14:59:29 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:13 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:32 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:35 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:00:36 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 15:00:59 because you think that it should be return #(1 2 1 2 1 2), but because 6 is greater than 3? 15:01:18 another one, what should `#2(,(gensym)) return? 15:01:27 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.93.226] has joined #lisp 15:02:04 -!- `fogus is now known as `fogus|gone 15:03:53 brguy [~idonteven@189.27.82.241.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 15:05:06 I think I don't know how the #() reader macro works :/ 15:05:12 some implementations just disregard 2, as sbcl did until today, others return two different symbols, lispworks return two the same symbol 15:07:00 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A20B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:30 well, one way would be to disallow #\, inside #x(...) 15:07:31 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 15:07:41 <|3b|> flip214: might look at psos for parenscript close stuff 15:07:55 or at least give a style-warning whenever ,@ is used or when , is used at the end of `x(....) 15:08:42 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:09:05 <|3b|> flip214: https://github.com/gonzojive/paren-psos i think 15:09:44 <|3b|> (though i think one of the deps was GPL if you care about that sort of thing) 15:10:27 stassats: after reading the spec I think that lispworks is right. 15:10:36 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-191-52.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:11:02 why? 15:11:23 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 15:11:26 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:11:43 it says that "the last object is used to fill all remaining elements of the vector" 15:12:57 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:13:00 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:12 but it doesn't say anything about backqoutes 15:15:08 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has joined #lisp 15:16:25 `#(#1=,(gensym) #1#) returns #(#:G138 (1 . #:G139)) on ECL 15:17:08 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:17:33 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:36 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:17:55 ofc 15:18:16 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has joined #lisp 15:20:07 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:20:29 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has joined #lisp 15:21:11 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:21:53 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:19 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has joined #lisp 15:23:16 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:23:51 xliweina_ [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has joined #lisp 15:24:16 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:17 -!- xliweina_ [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:27 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:26:00 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has joined #lisp 15:29:51 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:42 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.56.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:31:31 TDT [~user@5317-nat00.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 15:35:16 am0c [~am0c@175.252.149.220] has joined #lisp 15:37:37 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 15:38:29 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:42:53 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:43:23 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:43:30 -!- `fogus|gone is now known as `fogus 15:45:26 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 15:48:40 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:50:39 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 15:51:31 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-214.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:52:01 Gooder [~user@221.198.103.19] has joined #lisp 15:52:12 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:01 pearle [~pearle@drmons0505w-142068231208.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.ns.bellaliant.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:06 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 15:56:20 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:59 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m212-152-11-221.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 16:03:49 stassats: interesting. Between at 2.4.6 and 2.4.8.3 I think I might have expected the same behavior you expected -- something like `#n(expr) meaning (apply #'vector (extend-to-length-by-copying-last-elt n `(expr))) -- but I don't see anything specifying that explicitly 16:04:34 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-206-24-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:04:35 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:04:59 superflit [~superflit@187.113.227.127] has joined #lisp 16:06:05 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@54.247.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:17 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:07:50 Thra11 [~thrall@54.247.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:23 -!- Gooder [~user@221.198.103.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:07 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:10:45 `#2(,(gensym) could return a vector of total length 2 with a fillpointer set to 1 :-) 16:11:17 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:27 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:12:12 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757790.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:15 -!- vityok [~user@193.109.118.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:01 -!- p_l|work is now known as p_l|phone 16:16:27 -!- gilligan- [~gilligan_@p57974144.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:18:39 -!- pearle [~pearle@drmons0505w-142068231208.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.ns.bellaliant.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:22:19 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.162] has joined #lisp 16:24:14 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:25:19 -!- myx_ [~myx@pppoe-196-251-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:37 Bike 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[5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 17:30:55 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Quit: Emacs must have died] 17:31:26 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 17:32:33 -!- tmurray [~user@74.202.127.242] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:33:03 -!- Bike is now known as Bicycle 17:33:04 -!- eni [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:33:09 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 17:33:44 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m212-152-11-221.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 17:34:38 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:45 what is the etymology of the word Cons 17:34:52 construct 17:34:52 "construct" 17:35:35 or maybe "conscript bytes to do work" 17:37:35 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 17:38:09 thanks gentlemen. 17:38:24 i'm considering book titles. im writing a book about lisp 17:39:38 dto: Cool  focusing on games? graphics? or more general? 17:39:40 cons seems not to be in this print dictionary. but LISP is 17:39:43 Shouldent you know what cons stand for then? ^^ just asking 17:39:55 nilsi: haha :) 17:40:09 it's a pretty unimportant historical point, no big deal 17:40:36 nilsi: one can known the meaning without its etymology. In fact, I expect that's the case for the majority of words anyone knows. 17:40:49 nilsi: it's not a survey or tutorial. instead it's a collection of essays , some of which will be expanded from stuff i've already written and/or published 17:41:04 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 17:41:27 dto: Okey, sound cool! what titles are you considering? 17:41:42 fleshing out the book from the material i'm starting with, will take probably the rest of 2013 because i want to tie together all footnotes, research, etc everything. 17:42:05 brb 1 moment 17:43:38 how about Letters On Lisp? 17:44:13 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 17:44:16 or Lisping On LSD 17:44:57 conses of code 17:45:18 Not another LoL :( 17:45:43 "Let 17:46:10 dto: "let's Lisp" 17:46:11 '(of . lisp) 17:46:45 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:48:39 -!- mr_vile [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49:23 mr_vile [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 17:50:00 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 17:50:39 dto: RE CONS, wikipedia implies it comes from the word construct 17:51:47 i've always connected it to attaching something to something (else). ie: consing onto a list. hence the proposed name. 17:52:32 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:23 -!- sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:53:31 sorry for the delay gentlemen 17:53:42 Cons and Concept 17:53:52 Essays on Human Factors in List Processing 17:54:23 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 17:54:28 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:55:14 not as sure about the 2nd line 17:55:27 madnificent: cool, that's a cool etymology 17:55:42 sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:55:51 perhaps i shall have to get to the very bottom with primary documents and include an essay on the meaning of Cons 17:56:01 perhaps the elisp manual 17:56:30 i'd try to scan the LISP1 and LISP1.5 manuals for hints on the meaning of the word. 17:57:08 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 17:58:49 -!- nikodem [~mikey@user-164-127-234-255.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:58:59 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:59:08 axmk [~axmk@89.40.124.31.static.netlog.ro] has joined #lisp 17:59:20 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:59:21 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:00:07 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:02:50 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:04:01 madnificent: nice. thank you. 18:04:36 Here is the Chassell elisp intro: " The name of the `cons' function is not unreasonable: it is an abbreviation of the word `construct'. 18:05:21 -!- pjb is now known as Guest48951 18:05:27 -!- Guest45769 is now known as pjb` 18:05:32 jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has joined #lisp 18:05:38 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 18:06:07 By contrast, "cons cells" are named for the function `cons' that creates 18:06:07 them, which in turn was named for its purpose, the construction of 18:06:07 cells. 18:06:20 Stallman , elisp manual. 18:08:30 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 18:10:28 nikodem [~mikey@user-164-127-234-255.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:19:18 -!- sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:19:50 merk_ [~tmanny@37.244.144.93] has joined #lisp 18:20:24 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 18:20:52 -!- axmk [~axmk@89.40.124.31.static.netlog.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:21:18 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:27 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:45 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:36 stassats: for `#2(,(gensym)) I've got the impression all the implementations get it wrong. 18:25:00 -!- atgreen_ [~green@dsl-173-206-70-110.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:26:52 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:27:21 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:28:01 I'd expect #(#1=#:GSOMEGENSYM #1#) ; BUT, the specification of backquote doesn't say anything about `#n(, just about `#(: "`#(x1 x2 x3 ... xn) may be interpreted to mean (apply #'vector `(x1 x2 x3 ... xn)). " 18:28:14 So it's not specified, and anything goes. 18:28:52 atgreen_ [~green@dsl-173-206-70-110.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 18:29:07 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.223.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:29:37 i don't think anybody will use it anyhow 18:29:49 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:30:07 sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:31:25 jeti` [~user@p54A1EAB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:38 stassats: well, since it's not conforming, I hope not. 18:34:44 dto: the function was named XLWORDF in FLPL, and combine in AIM-8. 18:35:30 it doesn't seem that many people are using #3(x) 18:35:44 let alone `#3(x) 18:36:24 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:37:05 Saved by the gong! 18:39:21 pessoa [~pessoa@188-195-211-39-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:39:39 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:40:05 ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has joined #lisp 18:40:12 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.240.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:41:28 -!- Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:42:29 -!- atgreen_ [~green@dsl-173-206-70-110.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:42:39 pjb: i've neverr heard of those. hold on. 18:43:05 http://www.informatimago.com/articles/flpl/flpl.html and http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/aim-8/aim-8.html 18:43:33 vividrain [~user@adsl-98-65-183-201.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:44:36 Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has joined #lisp 18:45:57 miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:46:14 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:46:32 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:46:38 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:47:44 pjb: oh, this. 18:48:05 yeah i have a lot of historical sources to go through and check everything 18:48:44 In the sourceso f lisp 1.5 there are those three comments: 18:48:45 * CONSW PUTS FILL WORDS IN FULL WORD SPACE 18:48:45 * CONS BASIC LISP FUNCTION PUTS A WORD IN FREE STORAGE 18:48:45 TRA $CONS CONSTRUCT A LIST 18:48:48 18:49:21 hi 18:49:22 CONSW allocates on a different word list than CONS, it seems, for full-words (but I see it also used to allocate a pair). 18:49:25 -!- deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@175.211.184.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:49:39 what language is that? assembly of the PDP? 18:49:49 7090 assembly 18:50:52 The word cell is used, but for other memory cells. 18:51:49 doomlord [~doomlod@host31-53-219-0.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:54:23 Interlisp was written in fortran, still horrible, but a tiny step above assembly 18:54:46 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:59:00 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:00:01 pessoa: well, LISP 1.5 compiler was written in LISP 1.5. So I fail to find an excuse to Interlisp. 19:00:07 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:00:59 Interlisp was probably not meant to be compiled. 19:01:43 Perhaps they wrote in Fortran only a bootstrap layer. 19:01:45 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@54.247.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 19:02:54 -!- sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:03:03 after all, dynamic scope, first class special forms, and compilation do not go along with each other very well 19:03:27 ouch! 19:05:28 Dynamic scope wasn't specified, it just happened when they wrote an interpreter, and lexical scope just happened when they wrote a compiler. It's when they saw the difference that they realized there was a difference! 19:06:00 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:07:18 green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-70-110.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 19:07:33 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:50 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:08:53 Lush still uses lexical scope when compiled, dynamic scope when interpreted, and that on purpose. 19:09:34 old school 19:10:41 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:10:42 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.93.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:11:10 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 19:13:49 -!- smazga [~acrid@2602:4b:a2d6:8f00:b827:6c92:451d:a7ab] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:14:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:14:58 c_arenz 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CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.162] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:23:31 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-67-230.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 19:23:55 -!- fms is now known as ebobby 19:24:15 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:24:30 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 19:25:01 common lisp interpreters are extremely rare, anyways 19:28:42 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:34 -!- sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:30:23 sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 19:31:30 is that so? 19:31:43 I always cook mine fully. 19:32:35 stassats: at least clisp, cmucl, ecl have interpreters. 19:33:03 pjb: it's easier to list the ones without an interpreter: CCL 19:33:06 sbcl too got one. 19:33:21 sbcl has no interpreter, either 19:33:27 pessoa: incorrect 19:33:31 pessoa: yes, only you have to explicitely activate it. 19:33:32 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 19:34:08 Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has joined #lisp 19:37:02 -!- k5673 [~dti3@201.217.28.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:37:12 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:38:11 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:34 pjb: awesome the link to flpl! :) 19:42:03 k0001_ [~k0001@host87.186-125-97.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:42:07 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:44:12 -!- Bicycle is now known as Bike 19:45:11 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host94.200-117-234.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:46:36 jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-214.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:49:35 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping 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Collector got me...] 21:43:16 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:43:46 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has joined #lisp 21:44:35 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:45:30 -!- Bike [~Glossina@c-24-21-88-250.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bound] 21:50:50 -!- am0c [~am0c@175.252.149.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:51:23 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 21:52:58 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 21:53:40 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 21:55:27 -!- newbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:55:53 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:55:56 PuercoPo` [~user@190.236.194.173] has joined #lisp 21:56:23 -!- PuercoPo` is now known as PuercoPop` 21:56:35 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest62558 21:57:29 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 21:57:30 -!- Guest62558 [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:58:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:01:42 tali713: Thinking more thoroughly what I was talking about has nothing to do with TCO but with the following. Suppose I suspend execution at anytime, with an interative process I can deduce what was the 'top level function' called and where I in the 'call stack' I am. But with a recursive process, I just know 'local' information about the function. This gist ilustrates it https://gist.github.com/4457363 22:01:58 -!- PuercoPop` is now known as PuercoPop 22:02:39 Longlius_ [~Longlius@68.170.235.238] has joined #lisp 22:02:40 is 'interative' the same as interactive or iterative? 22:02:52 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-206-24-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 22:03:32 -!- Longlius [~Longlius@68.170.235.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:04:20 -!- Longlius_ is now known as Longlius 22:04:46 not all cl compilers optimes tail calls unconditionally 22:05:03 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:05:15 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:08:44 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:50 taill call elimination is bad for debugging 22:10:05 scheme has got do and for-each and of course the possibility to write wrappers over those with hygenic macros 22:10:42 pessoa: as bad as loops. 22:11:16 pkhuong: Heh, I had just typed that :) 22:11:26 opps ... wrong channel .... 22:12:48 yeah, as bad as loop 22:17:06 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:20 -!- Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:22:45 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:55 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 22:26:24 -!- sytse [sytse@vps.swielinga.nl] has quit [Quit: restart] 22:29:54 urandom__ [~user@p54B0EA6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:14 -!- SkyAnemone [~skyanemon@pool-108-5-112-43.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:31:37 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:18 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:11 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 22:36:01 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 22:36:41 -!- NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uyhvlgdmcptumkex] has quit [] 22:37:10 Guest52619 [~jick@39.47.31.144] has joined #lisp 22:37:21 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:42:35 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 22:47:16 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 22:47:23 -!- TDT [~user@5317-nat00.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:47:41 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 22:49:07 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 22:51:45 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 22:51:48 jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-101-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:52:33 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:17 -!- pessoa [~pessoa@188-195-211-39-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Started wasting time elsewhere] 22:54:15 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:54:40 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 22:54:58 smazga [~acrid@2602:4b:a2d6:8f00:987c:fac:af:3d13] has joined #lisp 22:55:29 -!- _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 22:55:57 -!- miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has left #lisp 23:05:51 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:27 rwiker [~rwiker@80.202.198.32] has joined #lisp 23:06:28 -!- Guest52619 [~jick@39.47.31.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:06:38 Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:39 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:17 redscare [~Adium@ool-435634f3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:32 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-67-230.bulk.ucr.edu] has left #lisp 23:08:27 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@80.202.198.32] has quit [Client Quit] 23:14:41 danlentz [~danlentz@2601:c:3680:1c:2c11:f7b8:4d30:595b] has joined #lisp 23:15:05 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:23 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 23:16:23 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:16:42 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:13 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:52 in hunchentoot, if I want to bind parts of a URL to variables, should I be handling this by writing a custom dispatcher for the easy-handler framework, or should I customize the acceptor-dispatch-request function? or is there no "standard" for such behavior? 23:21:34 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:22:16 gendl [~gendl@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:28 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:30 Happy New Year everybody. 23:22:33 -!- smazga [~acrid@2602:4b:a2d6:8f00:987c:fac:af:3d13] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:49 hi gendl :) 23:22:54 PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-65-31-47-32.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:22:59 over the holidays I went on a bit of a porting binge, committed a port of Genworks-GDL to Clozure CL 23:23:25 and I'm cautiously optimistic that I'm fairly close with ABCL and ECL 23:23:50 the main thing with ABCL right now is it doesn't support real package redefinition with defpackage 23:24:04 i.e. if you want to add more exported symbols to a package 23:24:10 or have a package use a new package 23:24:30 you pretty much have to call functional (export ) or (use-package  ) at runtime 23:24:48 which is perfectly in accordance with the ANSI spec, I realize so i'm not complaining anything about ABCL 23:25:45 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 23:26:05 but looking for a macro similar to defpackage which specifically supports redefinition, something like a "redefine-package" which can almost be used as a drop-in replacement for defpackage? 23:26:41 i'm not sure what you mean by having to call export or use-package at runtime 23:26:54 in ABCL, you can't say: 23:27:15 (defpackage :my-package (:export #:one #:two)) 23:27:26 then later on, compile/load a file which has: 23:27:40 (defpackage :my-package (:export #:three #:four)) 23:27:45 -!- nikodem [~mikey@user-164-127-234-255.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:28:02 and expect my-package:three and my-package:four to be there. 23:28:19 -!- hagish_ [~hagish@e181021050.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:28:28 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 23:28:29 ABCL's defpackage just doesn't do that. 23:28:30 gendl: indeed. You need a custom defpackage macro. 23:29:06 I was lulled into a false sense of how defpackage works, and was negligent on reading the spec. 23:29:09 gendl: yes, but i mean, the functional effect is going to be the same as calling export anyway 23:29:32 so why not do that? other than that grouping it all into a defpackage-looking thing might be easier to understand. 23:30:19 Bike: yes -- that's exactly what I need. I could write it myself of course, but don't want to reinvent something which might already exist somewhere in 700+ Quicklisp libraries 23:30:34 maybe here is not the appropriate place to ask? 23:30:47 but some google searching didn't show any clear answer 23:30:54 never heard of it, sorry. but you could probably pull it out of your favorite implementation's definition of defpackage. 23:30:56 gendl: the implementation in https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/lisp-reader allows redefinition of packages. 23:30:56 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host106-212-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 23:31:11 perhaps pjbware is your favorite implementation? who knows. 23:31:15 If your program is distributed under AGPL3, you could use it. 23:31:39 If your program is not distributed at all, you could use it too. 23:31:54 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-101-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:32:23 (and not usable by users on the internet). 23:32:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:33:35 Posterdati [~antani@host106-212-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:34:47 my program is distributed under AGPL3 and dual-licensed for proprietary (closed-source) applications 23:34:49 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:27 gendl: that complexifies the situation :-( 23:36:19 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 23:36:21 While it's conforming for the implementation to provide nasal demons when defpackage is used twice, you could still bully the implementer to do the right thing. 23:36:24 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-242-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 23:36:38 gendl: Uh. Talk to the abcl guys? That behaviour (while conformant) doesn't sound too useful to me 23:36:39 no you can't. 23:36:43 I won't be bullied. 23:36:55 bribbed? 23:36:59 sure. 23:37:19 depending on the price. 23:37:34 and the effort required. 23:38:08 ehu: you think it is a lot of work? Or do you oppose in principle? 23:38:11 gendl: A workaround might be to delete the package before reevaluating the defpackage form. 23:38:14 From backscroll I understand this is about adding a declarative nature to defpackage on redefinition? 23:38:27 prxq: I oppose being bullied, yes. 23:38:33 ehu: ok :-) 23:38:56 prxq: but using defpackage as a declarative way to ensure package state is probably a good idea. 23:39:02 cfy` [~ilisp@183.140.233.183] has joined #lisp 23:39:08 ehu: It's about what happends when you evaluate a defpackage form for an already-existing package, and the definition in the defpackage form differs from the contents of the existing package 23:40:01 -!- redscare [~Adium@ool-435634f3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:40:03 tcr: from what I understand some implementations unexport symbols which are not in the new defpackage form and export those which appear additionally, right? 23:40:35 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-245.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:40:36 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:40:42 segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-242-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:50 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-242-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:40:59 that shouldn't have to be too much work. 23:41:48 ehu: actually, sbcl does not unexport the old ones, just issues a warning: "package FOO also exports these symbols: ..." 23:42:24 i mean, does not unexport the ones that were exported and now are no longer according to the new defpackage form 23:42:27 ok. that's even easier. especially on the side of the :USE clause. 23:43:02 -!- nachtwandler_ [~nachtwand@p5089D6D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:44:58 I seem to recall that dr James Anderson has implemented a CL compliant MODPACKAGE utility that is distributed as part of de.setf.utillity 23:46:56 It's one of the first things loaded so it has few if any dependencies on the rest of the package and would be easy to separate out and use indpendently 23:47:35 It's on github in lisp/de.setf.utility repo 23:48:02 WHat about deleting packages named or nicknamed by the nicknames in the defpackage form? 23:48:25 No! Deleting any old package in defpackage is not a good behavior. 23:48:56 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:48:59 Users expect modification of the existing package. When there are conflicts, an error with restart is indicated. 23:49:14 I believe it does specifically handle tricky renicknamings 23:49:26 ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has joined #lisp 23:49:26 -!- ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has quit [Changing host] 23:49:26 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 23:49:31 Optionally 23:51:05 The set of provided operations are defined by the special variable *modpackage-operAtions* or some such 23:51:26 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-225-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:51:58 Adjust to your needs 23:52:08 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:53:25 Anyway, he calls the type of functionality you are proposing "package abuse" 23:54:01 -!- Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.110.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:54:34 Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.110.253] has joined #lisp 23:57:17 brguy [~idonteven@189.27.92.252.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:58:04 the only implementation I've seen which unexports symbols not in the new defpackage is LispWorks 23:58:36 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@c-98-216-97-19.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:17 Personally I thought it was somewhat unaesthetic to look at as a top level form but it most definitely handles simple ti 23:59:19 E 23:59:26 Unexporting 23:59:57 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@c-98-216-97-19.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]