00:02:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:03:12 (defstruct (as-conses (:type list)) ...) 00:03:59 drewc: doesn't seem that arbitrary 00:07:25 hrm ... (:conc-name %this-struct-only%-) and DO-SYMBOLS ? 00:09:07 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:09:12 I guess that is not arbitrary though... dag 00:09:19 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 00:09:52 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:18:31 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:57 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:21:38 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 00:21:42 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 00:24:46 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:34 is a good way to use reader-macro-libraries?: enable them at top of file, disable them at bottom of file, and enable them in repl during hacking of file (such as with cl-interpol:enable-interpol-syntax, cl-interpol:disable-interpol-syntax, etc.) 00:36:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:42 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.246.29.8] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 00:38:28 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-141-226.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:14 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 00:42:35 robot-beethoven: named-readtables provides a namespace like there is for packages but for readtables. You'd place a (in-readtable :foo) on top of each file you want to use a readtable named :FOO. 00:42:59 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:44:01 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 00:44:13 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:46:00 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:46:50 -!- merk_ [~tmanny@37.244.145.14] has quit [Quit: merk_] 00:56:38 -!- Vicfred [~Futaba@189.232.24.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:59:05 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 01:01:30 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:03:03 -!- harj [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:29 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:03:42 -!- brguy [~idonteven@177.17.144.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:03:57 substitute [~substitut@97-113-98-140.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:09 brguy [~idonteven@177.17.144.160] has joined #lisp 01:09:01 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.169.226] has joined #lisp 01:15:34 -!- substitute [~substitut@97-113-98-140.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:15:38 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:16:44 -!- brguy [~idonteven@177.17.144.160] has quit [Quit: Don't use quit!] 01:17:14 harj [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:18:54 -!- harj [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:09 sw2wolf [~czsq888@118.112.70.134] has joined #lisp 01:20:09 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:23:14 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686757.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:25:20 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:26:25 eliyak [~eliyak@c-24-13-247-120.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:25 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@c-24-13-247-120.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:26:25 eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has joined #lisp 01:28:16 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 01:36:26 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 01:37:11 -!- paul0 [~paulo@177.42.34.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:42:14 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279585004.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:50:15 harj [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:53:12 -!- ase [~se@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:59:38 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:59:38 -!- gigamonk_ is now known as gigamonkey 02:02:48 -!- jeti`` [~user@p548EA59B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:04:16 -!- bear3 [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (Session timeout)] 02:10:22 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 02:10:34 WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-253-8-204.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:44 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:51 -!- harj [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16:57 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:18:07 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-50-140-197-19.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:27 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:19:28 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 02:29:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:35:57 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:54 k0001 [~k0001@host241.190-224-58.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 02:38:44 -!- tetzco1 [~tetzco@2001:a60:1218:1001:226:bbff:fe03:b2e9] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:43:26 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:45:00 LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has joined #lisp 02:47:26 I'm having GC issues with sbcl. It's making my game engine studder. Is there a way to find/remove memory leaks or do I just need to live with it? 02:48:58 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:49:36 you could trigger GC regularly, e.g. each frame; consider scaling back to 1/2 generations as well. 02:50:06 As for memory leaks, I'm not sure what you mean. 02:51:08 pkhuong: memory leaks are where I am creating memory to clean up when it isn't necessary. Like doing operations in place. 02:52:07 Ah, consing. sb-sprof can give you an allocation profile. 02:52:14 That's different from leaking memory. 02:53:09 cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:12 -!- urandom__ [~user@p54B0EA41.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:53:21 Is there anything I can do about it? 02:53:39 stop consing :\ 02:54:45 Still, I'd go for small GC tweaks first. 02:54:57 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:55:24 I'm performing cffi math operations. in-place. I don't know where the bytes are being allocated. 02:56:35 at speed 3, SBCL will tell you about hidden consing. 02:56:44 Or, you could use the allocation profiler in sb-sprof. 02:57:48 pkhuong: Thanks, you've given me a few directions to try. 02:59:31 Something like http://paste.lisp.org/+2VOM 03:00:08 -!- Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:02:29 kanru`` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.hinet-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:50 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Quit: http://www.cyphase.com/] 03:03:07 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@176.97.27.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:04:09 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:51 Well, gc creates a noticeable pause whenever I do it. 03:06:57 full gc would cause long pauses, especially if it re-gcs all your asserts 03:07:00 *assets 03:07:19 Jubb [~ghost@c-69-143-14-148.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:59 but if even minor gcs cause noticeable pauses, you might want to invest in your computer. 03:08:19 It's not that old. 03:09:11 And I can't tell users not to use their computer. I'll need to find another way. 03:11:08 I'm pretty sure others have succeeded a couple years ago, so it's nothing fundamental. 03:12:03 I hope so. Right now I'm just very confused. 03:13:37 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:14:02 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 03:17:05 substitute [~substitut@97-113-98-140.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:42 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 03:22:40 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 03:26:21 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-134-140.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:32:33 gigamonk_ [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 03:37:06 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:f08d:a1d6:fbb7:ad65] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:39:59 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:46:41 how can i change the output ((:a . 1) ..) to ((a . 1) ..) in this: (loop for (key value) on '(:a 1 :b 2 :c 3) by #'cddr collect (cons key value)) 03:47:30 -!- substitute [~substitut@97-113-98-140.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:47:42 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:4149:755a:9404:70d4] has joined #lisp 03:48:19 substitute [~substitut@97-113-98-140.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:04 -!- Jubb [~ghost@c-69-143-14-148.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55:24 axion: what? 03:56:46 how to strip the colon 03:58:14 why do you want to do that? 04:03:03 -!- benny [~user@i577A8090.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:04:39 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.91.1] 04:06:50 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:07:28 Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:29 |nix|`` [~user@cpe-184-153-8-136.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:07:34 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:11 -!- |nix|` [~user@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:09:43 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:10:08 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 04:10:42 robot-beethoven: Instead of enabling reader macros at the top of the file and disabling them at the bottom, I have a couple of macros which expand into an eval-when and set *readtable* to the copy of a readtable, then enable the reader macros -- since *readtable* pops its binding after compiling the file I don't have to worry about disabling them. The downside is I haven't worked out slime integra 04:10:42 tion, so I have to compile the entire file to compile a form with a reader macro 04:17:57 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:4149:755a:9404:70d4] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:18:41 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:25:07 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host241.190-224-58.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:28:02 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-50-140-197-19.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:28:59 -!- substitute [~substitut@97-113-98-140.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:32:27 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@118.112.70.134] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:36:59 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:38:38 -!- gigamonk_ [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:39:49 -!- Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has left #lisp 04:40:35 minion: memo for robot-beethoven: re: readtable customization: http://paste.lisp.org/display/134378 04:40:37 Remembered. I'll tell robot-beethoven when he/she/it next speaks. 04:41:06 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 04:45:46 johnstorey [~johnstore@adsl-76-254-35-109.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:18 -!- deckeraa [~aaron@97-83-167-14.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:57:00 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:00 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:01:35 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-253-8-204.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:09:31 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:11:35 Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:56 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:14:20 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 05:14:46 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:52 -!- am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:19:54 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 05:24:19 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:27:54 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 05:28:01 -!- cafaro [~tman@unaffiliated/cafaro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:29:36 -!- |nix|`` [~user@cpe-184-153-8-136.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:29:46 deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@175.211.184.18] has joined #lisp 05:31:08 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:31:43 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 05:36:31 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:46:26 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 05:53:19 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.170] has joined #lisp 05:56:01 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:56:03 brguy [~idonteven@177.17.145.60] has joined #lisp 05:58:55 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:59:52 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02:48 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 06:05:07 -!- Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has left #lisp 06:09:44 brazilianguy [~idonteven@177.17.144.159] has joined #lisp 06:09:57 sw2wolf [~czsq888@118.112.70.134] has joined #lisp 06:11:03 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:11:17 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.251.190.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:11:19 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:12:40 -!- brguy [~idonteven@177.17.145.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:13:32 atgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-167-25.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 06:14:46 axion: there's no colon there! (loop for s in '(:a :b keyword:c) collect (symbol-name s)) => ("A" "B" "C") 06:15:47 DrCode_ [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 06:16:35 axion: You could use princ: (princ (loop for (key value) on '(:a 1 :b 2 :c 3) by #'cddr collect (cons key value))) 06:16:46 axion: the REPL uses PRINT, not PRINC. 06:16:57 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:17:07 -!- DrCode_ is now known as DrCode 06:17:44 -!- deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@175.211.184.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:17:48 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 06:19:43 -!- atgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-167-25.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:23:06 miql [~miql@98.165.235.27] has joined #lisp 06:24:20 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 06:30:54 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:35:31 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 06:35:46 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Quit: ZNC - 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The method may be called also during application lifecyle, in which case it will not be called again. So I need a large set and an efficient way to remove an object reference. I was thinking to use an hash-table with (key , nil) pairs where key 08:36:19 is the object I need to handle. Is there a better way for doing what I need ? 08:38:56 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 08:40:17 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:41:24 setmeaway [stemearay@119.201.52.235] has joined #lisp 08:44:08 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 08:45:59 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 08:53:52 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:54:19 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 08:54:33 nikodem [~mikey@user-46-113-78-1.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:56:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:58:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-114.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:58:42 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:52 -!- kanru`` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.hinet-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:01:28 faust45_ [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 09:01:55 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:01:55 -!- faust45_ is now known as faust45 09:03:56 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-227-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:41 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:09:22 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:09:43 deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@175.211.184.18] has joined #lisp 09:10:34 -!- deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@175.211.184.18] has quit [Client Quit] 09:10:48 deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@175.211.184.18] has joined #lisp 09:11:12 kiuma: you want weak hash tables? 09:12:01 Fare, I don't know weak hash tables, I java they'd been hashsets 09:12:51 oh, well, typically you use a hash-table with T as the value 09:13:03 so you don't have to look up the second foundp value. 09:14:09 see list-to-hash-set in asdf 09:14:33 thanks 09:14:50 (defun list-to-hash-set (list &aux (h (make-hash-table :test 'equal))) (dolist (x list h) (setf (gethash x h) t))) 09:15:00 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 09:16:09 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@118.112.70.134] has left #lisp 09:18:27 bitonic [~user@ppp-157-126.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 09:21:58 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has quit [Quit: faust45] 09:22:45 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:23:26 gilligan- [~gilligan_@p4FEA5266.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:51 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-84-102.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:25:58 -!- gilligan_ [~gilligan_@de.gigabit.perfect-privacy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:28:30 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-156-124.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:28:36 somebody__ [~gilligan_@nl.gigabit.perfect-privacy.com] has joined #lisp 09:29:50 mnemonk [~jonasl@c-46-162-74-52.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 09:29:51 Fare I was using nil instead of t, but I think t is better :) 09:29:52 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: zajn] 09:30:57 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d013270.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:34 -!- gilligan- [~gilligan_@p4FEA5266.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:36:14 -!- nikodem [~mikey@user-46-113-78-1.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:36:57 nikodem [~mikey@user-46-113-78-1.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:43:58 kiuma: if you use nil, you have to use the second value of gethash to detect the presence. 09:44:03 Better map to T. 09:44:22 yes yes, I'd noticed :) 09:44:29 hi 09:44:46 hello 09:45:42 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 09:50:05 gilligan- [~gilligan_@p4FEA4E4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:57 -!- theos is now known as Guest31021 09:51:39 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:53:07 -!- somebody__ [~gilligan_@nl.gigabit.perfect-privacy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:53:59 gilligan_ [~gilligan_@de.gigabit.perfect-privacy.com] has joined #lisp 09:54:14 -!- Guest31021 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:55:47 -!- gilligan- [~gilligan_@p4FEA4E4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:58:46 -!- deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@175.211.184.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:01:30 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:02:23 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 10:03:19 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:04:44 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 10:04:51 myx [~myx@pppoe-221-239-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 10:06:22 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:08:45 deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@175.211.184.18] has joined #lisp 10:10:00 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 10:10:58 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 10:11:59 I'd like a Lisp dialect where the list terminator is the truth value. 10:12:20 and the false value is failing the current continuation, as in icon. 10:12:28 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has quit [Quit: faust45] 10:12:59 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:13:17 -!- Fare [~fare@c-68-81-138-209.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:13:52 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.170] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:16:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-114.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:18:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-100.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:19:47 I often see functions/macros starting with %, is that a convention like +x+ *y*? 10:20:14 -!- bniels [~niels@p4FD6FBFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:20:27 nan_: it is a convention, yes 10:21:01 how can I ensure the call of (foreign-funcall "ecore_init" :void) when package is loaded ? 10:21:17 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756235.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:22 I've tried evel-when without luck 10:21:34 jdz: thanks, any links i can check or a phrase i can search? 10:22:04 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:22:12 nan_: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=common+lisp+naming+conventions 10:23:37 bniels [~niels@p4FD6FBFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:46 oops, I used %foo% for private global special variable 10:26:32 kiuma: what do you mean by "private global"? 10:27:28 not intended to be used outside the package (framewok internal) 10:27:35 harj [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:28:07 so it's just a special variable, the name of which is not exported, right? 10:28:32 -!- harj [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:51 yes 10:28:58 harj [~harj@206.222.178.15] has joined #lisp 10:29:40 oh! it says &foo also convention... i am confused now 10:30:12 harj_ [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:30:56 nan_: that is a naming convention used by CL, and you as a user should not use symbols starting with & 10:31:55 why shouldn't I? 10:32:06 Vivitron: why would you? 10:32:07 jdz: it was listed with all the others so i thought it was same. 10:32:35 nan_: it kind of is; whenever you see a symbol starting with &, it means it is a lambda list keyword. 10:32:44 jdz: to convey meaning 10:33:00 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-47-150.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:33:17 -!- harj [~harj@206.222.178.15] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:35:11 -!- mnemonk [~jonasl@c-46-162-74-52.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:40:42 You can use &symbols without problems. 10:40:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-100.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:41:00 They are used in CL lambda lists (cf clhs lambda-list-keywords). 10:41:06 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.12.198] has joined #lisp 10:41:11 Some of them I mean are exported from CL to be used in lambda lists. 10:41:45 Otherwise, % is indeed _usually_ a sign that indicates a private, dangerous function or variable. 10:41:54 They should not be exported. 10:42:09 pjb: you can shoot yourself in a foot without problems, for all i care. 10:44:06 But some programmers strangely enough export functions that are not _that_ dangerous, and clearly not private, with this % prefix. Cf. ccl FFI functions! 10:44:06 On the other hand, if you define a function tax%, in an accounting package, it may very well be an exported benign function. 10:44:07 jdz: Well, then you should name the FFI package %FFI :-) 10:45:17 Some old CLOS code used to name classes. 10:45:38 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 10:45:56 Not funny with defstruct: (-x pt) :-/ 10:46:38 x-of actually very nice 10:47:11 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.179.52] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:48:15 (x-of pt) that is 10:48:40 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 10:51:20 -!- deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@175.211.184.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:51:58 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-157-126.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:52:05 one place I have used the trailing % is when the name is already taken. the % symbol may be used in implementing the non % version or a deprecated implementation of it (iirc let over lambda used this latter meaning) 10:52:50 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.179.52] has joined #lisp 10:54:10 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:56:14 -!- harj_ [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:56:31 -!- tetzco [~tetzco@ppp-93-104-24-113.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has left #lisp 10:56:47 tetzco [~tetzco@ppp-93-104-24-113.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 10:58:39 deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@175.211.184.18] has joined #lisp 11:01:50 Amoz [~Amoz@nl107-187-231.student.uu.se] has joined #lisp 11:01:54 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:02:55 -!- pjb [~t@cust-seco21th2-46-193-64-247.wb.wifirst.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:03:33 reading about conventions in a post in comp.lang.lisp, after reading "But we decided that since they were really only for things like WITH-SLOTS, SYMBOL-MACROLET was sufficient" and it felt somehow bad, then later he corrected himself and said "Oops, I had it backwards. For a while we *only* had SYMBOL-MACROLET, 11:03:33 because we thought it was only needed for the WITH-xxx macros. Then we 11:03:33 decided to generalize it even more", much better! 11:13:39 harj [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:18:53 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Quit: kcj] 11:20:29 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.12.198] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 11:23:27 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:23:58 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:26:35 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-100.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:31:38 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.240.147] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 11:36:42 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.170] has joined #lisp 11:37:02 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.248.167] has joined #lisp 11:42:59 pjb [~user@cust-seco21th2-46-193-64-247.wb.wifirst.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:30 -!- pjb [~user@cust-seco21th2-46-193-64-247.wb.wifirst.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:16 pjb [~user@cust-seco21th2-46-193-64-247.wb.wifirst.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:40 -!- pjb is now known as Guest36943 11:45:28 -!- Guest36943 is now known as pjb` 11:45:46 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 11:51:22 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:51:48 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-33-187.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:53:45 mnemonk [~jonasl@c-46-162-74-52.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #lisp 11:54:37 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-47-42.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:54:39 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 11:56:41 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-141-226.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:58:49 atgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-70-110.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 12:04:01 deckeraa [~aaron@97-83-167-14.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:04:18 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 12:06:35 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.179.52] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:07:22 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:08:46 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.179.52] has joined #lisp 12:09:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-100.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:09:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-100.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:13:38 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 12:16:05 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:19 k0001 [~k0001@200.117.220.106] has joined #lisp 12:24:25 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:28:02 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-100.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:28:25 -!- harj [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:47 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:30:44 -!- mnemonk [~jonasl@c-46-162-74-52.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:33:49 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Quit: http://www.cyphase.com/] 12:34:05 harj [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:35:25 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:36:13 beaky [~beaky@92.96.112.219] has joined #lisp 12:36:15 hello 12:37:22 what other programming languages have something similar to Common Lisp's symbols? 12:37:36 scheme 12:37:40 ah 12:38:11 I've seen something similar in Smalltalk and Ruby too 12:38:16 k5673 [~dti3@201.217.28.246] has joined #lisp 12:38:22 Erlang too 12:44:43 They're called 'atoms' in Erlang. 12:45:58 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:46:22 -!- harj [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:46:48 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:47:00 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-212-120.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:47:03 hsc [~hsc@c-24-18-240-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:34 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 12:48:56 -!- pjb [~user@cust-seco21th2-46-193-64-247.wb.wifirst.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:48:57 b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:49:34 http://wiki.alu.org/The%20Road%20To%20Lisp%20Survey throwing sbcl trace 12:50:06 how unfortunate 12:50:23 at least it's not served by IIS :) 12:51:48 -!- doomlord__ [~doomlod@host31-53-219-0.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:52:23 -!- b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:52:57 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:07 b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:53:39 -!- b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:54:10 b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:35 Jasko [~Jasko@65.217.244.130] has joined #lisp 12:57:05 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:57:30 merk_ [~tmanny@31.45.151.152] has joined #lisp 12:57:31 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:57:46 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:58:32 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:02:03 I like how languages like Common Lisp reinforce the idea that a program is also data 13:02:17 why don't other programming languages do the same thing? 13:02:52 as both the Universal Turing Machine and the Von-Neumann machine have the same idea 13:03:14 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:03:21 why? then they would add macro, CLOS, packages, and we would have two Common Lisp. 13:03:31 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 13:03:40 hehe 13:06:07 but that kind of thing enables you to define a nice, clean core language and the leverage that language to define your own language 13:06:33 that lets you implement OOP, lazy evaluation, etc. 13:06:49 even your own type system 13:07:28 I think that you shouldn't bother about what's missing in other languages and use Common Lisp if it fits your needs. 13:07:32 ah 13:08:19 higher-order functions are good enough anyway :D 13:08:29 are often good enough for my needs* 13:08:41 I wish C had those :( 13:09:34 have a look at Go and Rust then 13:09:47 ah 13:09:56 or just stick with CL, maybe, it also has CLOS and macros and reader macros, after all 13:10:54 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 13:11:37 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:02 bitonic [~user@ppp-157-126.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 13:12:48 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756235.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:13:37 I want a C language incremental compiler and linker, please 13:14:26 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-027-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:39 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.68.247] has joined #lisp 13:15:04 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 13:15:05 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:57 agumonkey [~agu@183.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:15 gigamonk_ [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 13:19:24 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:20:14 harj [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:24:16 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:27:12 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:28:50 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:51 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:05 add^_^ [~add^_@m212-152-28-4.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:36:01 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-47-150.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:36:01 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 13:37:32 -!- gigamonk_ [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:39:07 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:39:52 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 13:41:31 Oejet [~Oejet@unaffiliated/oejet] has joined #lisp 13:43:03 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:45:30 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:46:50 ase [~se@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 13:48:49 substitute [~substitut@97-113-98-140.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:53 -!- deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@175.211.184.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:49:01 Bacteria_ [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:49:33 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:49:50 -!- Bacteria_ [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 13:50:07 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:50:34 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:51:23 benny [~user@i577A376E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:51:40 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.68.247] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:52:30 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:06 beaky: in ruby there are kind-of-symbols, but since identifiers are not symbols, it's not homoiconic. 13:58:05 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:00:18 ah 14:00:26 what are ruby symbols then 14:00:51 probably just interned strings 14:01:37 Are strings immutable in ruby? 14:02:02 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 14:02:17 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.202.118] has joined #lisp 14:02:20 deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@175.211.184.18] has joined #lisp 14:03:11 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:26 Zhivago: no 14:03:44 Then they're a bad candidate for interning. 14:04:17 Looks like symbols in ruby aren't strings at all. 14:04:47 Personally, I think that symbols as immutable strings isn't a bad approach. 14:05:37 IIRC Erlang symbols are fixnums internally 14:06:42 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-73-121.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 14:07:16 or maybe not 14:07:17 fixnums? 14:07:26 well, any data can be represented as a number 14:08:02 The trick is getting people to agree on which ones to use. 14:08:37 exactly :) 14:08:48 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:10:36 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:10:54 beaky: they're written as keywords :foo. You'd represent a ruby expression such as (if (lo Notice the silly punctuation :-( 14:16:11 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:17:06 -!- harj [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19:48 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:20:04 -!- substitute [~substitut@97-113-98-140.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:20:34 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:20:50 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:31 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:24:19 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:25:14 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:26:10 nielsb [~niels@p4FD6DEE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:21 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:28:44 dim: erlang atoms are fixnums, yes 14:28:44 -!- bniels [~niels@p4FD6FBFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:28:49 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.202.118] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 14:29:16 so are X atoms :) 14:30:44 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:21 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:13 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:24 -!- b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:35:02 urandom__ [~user@p548A18D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:08 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.202.118] has joined #lisp 14:38:55 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.202.118] has quit [Client Quit] 14:39:02 normanrichards [~normanric@63.98.50.138] has joined #lisp 14:39:27 -!- kilon 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[~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:55 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 15:45:33 -!- merk_ [~tmanny@31.45.151.152] has quit [Quit: merk_] 15:46:51 burrows [~user@cpe-75-187-53-43.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:47:20 I'm trying to do something like this in lisp, http://pastebin.com/6WEknUMV 15:47:38 And I want to avoid the boilerplate code in each function, and the problem of extending the structure and having to change the function arguments. 15:47:52 I think something like passing a binding as an argument could work? 15:48:09 My brain won't stop Cing. 15:48:53 in cl, we do not have artity based function overloading, so your approach won't work directly. 15:49:20 burrows: I only see C boilerplate. Maybe you're looking for with-accessors or with-slots. But, mostly we just use accessors everywhere. 15:49:28 eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has joined #lisp 15:49:33 if i understand you correctly, you want two instance constructors to be generated for you automatically, one with an existing instance, one with arguments for each slot? 15:49:53 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 15:49:56 joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has joined #lisp 15:50:47 I want to expose the contents of a structure, but scoped locally and not with boilerplate code. 15:50:49 If that made sense. 15:51:02 And no by passing each element to the function individually. 15:51:38 sounds like with-slots 15:51:57 oh but you don't want to have to say which slots you're interested into? 15:52:02 note that with-slots on structures is unportable. 15:52:07 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:09 you want something like with-all-slots? 15:52:10 Yes dim, I don't want to specify. 15:52:28 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 15:52:41 Contemporary CLOS programs hide the difference between accessors that map directly to slots and those that don't. 15:52:59 I guess that using closer-mop:class-slots you can write your own with-all-slots macro 15:53:08 sohakes [~sohakes@186.207.102.165] has joined #lisp 15:53:12 dim: not without static type information. 15:53:15 -!- mnemonk [~jonasl@c-46-162-74-52.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:53:16 -!- svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Quit: svs_] 15:53:40 -!- sohakes [~sohakes@186.207.102.165] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:00 (mapcar #'closer-mop:slot-definition-name (closer-mop:class-slots (class-of (make-instance 'foo)))) 15:54:01 just use accessors. 15:54:21 I had that working, I guess you can have a macro that generate the with-slots code for you 15:54:39 dim: how does that work with forward-referenced or redefined classes? 15:54:44 I'm not sure how to understand the "static type" part 15:54:48 How do you know which class to use? 15:54:56 class-of tells me? 15:55:10 slyrus [~chatzilla@97-122-255-171.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:28 Alright I'll figure out what that does (*codes in Scheme, and newbie), thanks for help. 15:55:29 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 15:55:47 burrows: #scheme for scheme. It's different in the scheme implementations. 15:56:07 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:31 Alright, cool. 15:56:48 ah. So the macro expands into different code depending on a value that's only available at runtime? Worse, even if you made it work, the code would be impossible to reason about. (let ((x 42)) (with-magic-slots (object) x)) => ? Could be 42, could be anything else. 15:57:28 I guess you could go for dynamic bindings, with progv, but then you have to declare the variables you want to use as specials, so what's the point? 15:58:05 I think you're right that it's a bad idea, pkhuong 15:59:44 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:31 I think maybe I just expose the structure in one function and then uses a list of lambdas to represent the function. 16:00:50 jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has joined #lisp 16:01:40 -!- miql [~miql@98.165.235.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:02:22 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:02:43 burrows: CL has a real object system. You could skip rolling your own and code what you want to create instead. 16:02:44 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-011-201.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:13 (to be fair, many scheme implementations also have object systems) 16:04:31 What's best way to learn CL? Assuming I have quit a bit of programming experience elsewhere. 16:04:56 minion: tell burrows about pcl 16:04:56 burrows: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 16:05:41 Alright cool. 16:05:45 Will consider. 16:07:13 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-130.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:08:13 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:08:53 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 16:08:54 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.248.167] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 16:09:02 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 16:10:07 burrows: explore http://cliki.net ; there are books, tutorials, libraries, etc referenced there. 16:10:52 Cool. 16:10:54 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:12:42 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:15:15 -!- djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:16:18 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:48 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:54 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has quit [Quit: That's it, I quit!] 16:17:02 cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:05 -!- slava [~slava@li32-38.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:17:46 bitonic` [~user@ppp-47-38.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 16:17:51 slava [~slava@li32-38.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:18:35 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756235.pool.mediaways.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:46 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:18:54 djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:19:20 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-157-126.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:21:36 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-206-24-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:24:15 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@63.98.50.138] has quit [] 16:28:02 mjs2600 [~user@50.55.138.247] has joined #lisp 16:29:26 cic_ [~connolly@Catnip.AI.SRI.COM] has joined #lisp 16:31:25 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 16:33:58 -!- deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@175.211.184.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:34:03 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 16:34:45 jking [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:49 -!- jking [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:35:39 j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:40 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:07 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:44:58 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5089D43A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:59 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.223.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:48:57 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:52:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-130.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:55:53 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:56:28 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:49 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:59:52 AeroNotix [~xeno@abou64.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:00:41 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 17:01:30 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 17:04:20 -!- mindcruzer [~mindcruze@216.185.74.162] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:08:24 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.117.220.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09:43 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 17:10:17 k0001 [~k0001@host179.181-1-166.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:11:08 is there a correct way of doing this ? (defmethod del-a ((a a)) (setf a nil)) ;I know that this is complitely wrong 17:12:13 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:13:09 it can't be done with a function (generic or not), since arguments are passed by value 17:13:26 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:13:44 merk_ [~tmanny@212.91.105.40] has joined #lisp 17:14:14 I need it because my classes are wrappers around c pointers and once the c pointer is made free the class should be unusable 17:14:23 un-usable 17:14:53 kilon_alios [~kilon@130.43.55.222.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:15:10 you want to set slot of a class to nil? 17:15:31 is there a way to accomplish this task oter than relying on the user good will ? 17:15:36 if so you can use (setf (slot-value ..) ..) 17:15:40 kilon_alios: shouldn't you be doing it the other way around, freeing the C pointer when the class is unreachable? 17:15:51 thater, kiuma 17:15:57 kennyd, I can't 17:16:03 "thater" = er 17:16:05 oGMo, no 17:16:08 :) 17:16:13 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon_ 17:16:29 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:16:35 -!- kilon_ is now known as kilon 17:16:36 -!- kilon [~kilon@130.43.55.222.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Changing host] 17:16:36 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 17:16:48 because I'm wrapping ecore. ecore is an event based library. I don't directly free the pointer 17:17:28 it's the ecore_main_loop that makes ecore objjects free 17:17:28 i'm not sure how ecore works, but it seems odd that it would free things for you 17:17:48 -!- merk_ [~tmanny@212.91.105.40] has quit [Client Quit] 17:17:52 kiuma: clear the wrapper's slot. 17:17:55 heh, i see raster hasn't improved on software design much 17:18:28 pkhuong, I already clear the pointer 17:20:13 there, you're done. You can add functions to see if the wrapper has a valid pointer, and add :before checks on methods. 17:21:00 oGMo, I've just had oddities freeing ecore objects, timers del function needed to be called before main loop quit, while events del functionshad to be called before ecoreshutdown 17:22:29 miql [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:31 kiuma: well, good luck 17:22:33 pkhuong, ok I already had (defmethod ecore-pointer ((ecore ecore)) (or (slot-value ecore 'pointer) (signal 'ecore-error :message "Invalid ecore pointer"))) 17:22:47 I'll stay with that 17:23:31 I'm a bit scared/cusious when I'll have to make my ecore-swank server 17:23:36 :) 17:23:53 miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:07 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.112.247.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:00 Well, you could also change-class to invalid-ecore or something like that. 17:26:32 -!- burrows [~user@cpe-75-187-53-43.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:27:29 pkhuong, change-class is what I needed :) thank you! 17:27:48 Thra11 [~thrall@54.247.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:01 pkhuong, brillliant 17:30:09 I like it 17:30:39 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has joined #lisp 17:31:19 Yeah, I keep forgetting that trick. I'm not sure how I feel about it. Very probably thread unsafe. 17:32:19 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 17:32:40 no threads in ecore :) 17:32:53 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.162] has joined #lisp 17:34:38 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-47-38.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:35:14 pkhuong: sharing data between threads is very thread unsafe 17:35:41 the more I deal with multi-threaded code, the more convinced I become of that 17:35:48 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@65.217.244.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:35:54 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@97-122-255-171.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:36:03 jasom: there are levels. change-class can result in very strange bugs deep in the CLOS implementation. 17:36:05 Jasko [~Jasko@65.217.244.130] has joined #lisp 17:36:23 bitonic [~user@ppp-70-54.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 17:36:46 pkhuong: so can doing the wrong thing with FFI 17:37:04 ok. 17:37:05 well not in CLOS, but you can crash your image by passing a bad pointer 17:38:25 fms [~fms@189.170.27.127] has joined #lisp 17:39:19 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:39:32 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 17:39:57 in fact I prefer to screw up with CLOS than FFI 17:42:04 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:12 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:16 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:42:16 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 17:42:24 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-70-54.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:43:24 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:37 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:44 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abou64.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 17:46:11 bitonic [~user@ppp-55-11.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 17:46:31 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 17:47:11 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has joined #lisp 17:48:25 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:49:39 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:12 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-027-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:50:36 gilligan- [~gilligan_@p4FEA4E4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:19 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:52:53 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:53:07 -!- gilligan_ [~gilligan_@de.gigabit.perfect-privacy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:53:18 -!- fms is now known as ebobby 17:53:46 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:10 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:22 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 17:54:37 nowhere_man_ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-100-65.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:57:01 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:57:09 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:57:26 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 17:57:46 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has joined #lisp 17:57:56 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-33-187.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:01:29 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:01:54 -!- nikodem [~mikey@user-46-113-78-1.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:02:14 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-016-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:53 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:06:54 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 18:08:47 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:12:24 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:13:40 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:14:33 nowhereman_ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-12-55.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:15:02 -!- nowhere_man_ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-100-65.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:16:53 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:17:17 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has joined #lisp 18:18:01 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 18:18:31 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:21:34 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has quit [Client Quit] 18:22:01 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:22:44 Hello friends. A few years ago some young fellow wrote a PDF or slide set or something about defining a web service path handler scheme by having suffixes and prefixes and stuff like that to control handling and rendering. 18:22:45 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 18:22:48 Do you remember that document? 18:23:03 I'm having a devil of a time remembering key words that appeared in it. 18:23:13 I think it was related to AllegroServe but I might be remembering wrong. 18:24:38 <|3b|> http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/defservice/ ? 18:26:19 thank you very much! 18:26:38 that is exactly it. i thought it was him. 18:27:05 -!- ISF is now known as sergiosdj 18:27:15 -!- sergiosdj is now known as ISF 18:27:21 jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has joined #lisp 18:27:43 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:30:40 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.179.52] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:31:51 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has joined #lisp 18:32:27 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5089D43A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:14 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:36:18 ryankarason [~karason@cpe-76-189-227-224.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:38 is there any plan for sbcl to support arm? 18:36:50 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:37:27 someone may be working on it, but it's nontrivial apparently 18:37:35 -!- mjs2600 [~user@50.55.138.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:37:45 CCL supports armv6+ now iirc 18:38:49 oGMo: thanks! 18:38:57 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 18:39:04 cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:17 -!- pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-212-120.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:41:16 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:41:31 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:05 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 18:42:08 k0001_ [~k0001@host165.190-226-192.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:42:15 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 18:45:26 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has joined #lisp 18:45:33 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 18:45:48 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host179.181-1-166.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:46:39 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl23-24-34.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:49:26 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:52 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has joined #lisp 18:51:36 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:52:18 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 18:55:01 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:22 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has joined #lisp 19:02:33 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:55 -!- Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:06:35 pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-212-120.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:06:54 Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has joined #lisp 19:07:03 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:08:29 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:57 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has joined #lisp 19:09:50 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 19:09:54 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 19:09:54 Greetings lispers 19:11:23 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:11:47 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 19:12:14 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-212-120.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:12:25 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-212-120.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:27 pjb`` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-212-120.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:14:56 cornihilio: nyef resumed his work for a while. I'd say he seems to have solved most of the hard bits. 19:14:59 -!- pjb`` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-212-120.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:23 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has joined #lisp 19:16:57 -!- pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-212-120.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:17:28 pjb`` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-212-120.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:17:56 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 19:19:47 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.153.184] has quit [Client Quit] 19:21:30 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl23-24-34.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:16 pjb``` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-212-120.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:22:31 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has quit [Client Quit] 19:23:04 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 19:23:47 -!- pjb`` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-212-120.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:01 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has quit [Client Quit] 19:24:47 -!- pjb``` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-212-120.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:55 pjb``` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-212-120.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:24:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-130.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:25:58 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:26:52 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:42 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 19:28:28 -!- ryankarason [~karason@cpe-76-189-227-224.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:02 pjb```` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-212-120.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:31:41 -!- pjb``` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-212-120.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:33 mutenewt [~mutenewt@66.71.231.186] has joined #lisp 19:37:07 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:38:25 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 19:38:54 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:38:54 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:27 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 19:42:30 -!- _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:45 -!- setmeaway [stemearay@119.201.52.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:51:14 nikodem [~mikey@user-164-126-31-22.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:53:30 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-016-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:53:50 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 19:56:08 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 19:56:40 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:57:22 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:57:47 harj [~harj@109.176.207.125] has joined #lisp 20:00:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:00:44 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:54 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279585004.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:01:56 -!- mutenewt [~mutenewt@66.71.231.186] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:02:37 nachtwandler [~androirc@p5089D43A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:45 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:19 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:12:34 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:12:35 is there a convinience function to compare lists? element-wise, by numeric/string value? 20:12:51 mismatch? 20:13:12 flip214: you mean EQUAL? 20:14:03 I need something to sort on; the lists can contain strings or numbers, and I'd like a "sane" sort order for display 20:14:52 flip214: you could use :key #'print-to-string (: 20:15:25 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 20:15:39 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:54 yeah, something like that ... 20:16:14 although that would destroy the numerical sort order, so I'll have to write my own function. 20:17:18 thought that alexandria would have something like that 20:18:54 -!- pjb```` is now known as pjb 20:20:59 francogrex [~user@109.134.231.227] has joined #lisp 20:21:11 flip214: it's easy to write a function that orders any kind of objects. It's slightly harder but still possible to do it conformingly ;-) 20:21:51 -!- harj [~harj@109.176.207.125] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:55 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:22:50 setmeaway [oosool3@119.201.52.235] has joined #lisp 20:22:56 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23:45 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: "latuh"] 20:23:55 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-214.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:24:51 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 20:25:00 -!- nachtwandler [~androirc@p5089D43A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:13 nachtwandler [~androirc@p5089D43A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:22 surrounder [~surrounde@95.96.32.26] has joined #lisp 20:36:53 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:32 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host165.190-226-192.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:40:26 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:42:46 -!- miql [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:43:14 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@95.96.32.26] has quit [Quit: "latuh"] 20:48:22 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.8.103] has joined #lisp 20:50:29 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:51:22 surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 20:57:10 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:58:05 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:28 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 20:59:24 cafaro [~tman@37-251-16-95.FTTH.ispfabriek.nl] has joined #lisp 20:59:24 -!- cafaro [~tman@37-251-16-95.FTTH.ispfabriek.nl] has quit [Changing host] 20:59:24 cafaro [~tman@unaffiliated/cafaro] has joined #lisp 21:02:10 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 21:02:45 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:04 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-37.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 21:05:05 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-37.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 21:05:05 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 21:05:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-130.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:08:30 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756235.pool.mediaways.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:13:00 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:13:10 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 21:14:07 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-206-24-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 21:23:35 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.231.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:42 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:29:35 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 21:32:14 -!- `fogus is now known as `fogus|away 21:33:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-130.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:40:50 -!- nikodem [~mikey@user-164-126-31-22.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:41:50 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686757.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:45:31 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 21:48:45 -!- Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:50:27 Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has joined #lisp 21:52:46 sdemarre [~serge@198.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:53:06 -!- sdemarre [~serge@198.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Client Quit] 21:53:55 -!- nachtwandler [~androirc@p5089D43A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - 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(y/n) 22:46:46 [newline here] 22:46:54 .continued program.. 22:46:58 looks good to me 22:47:14 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:47:15 the newline after is because you enter it 22:47:29 stassats`: It creates a double newline 22:47:39 after the statement 22:47:40 it does? 22:47:51 in which implementation? 22:48:13 zajn: Just write your own version. For argument's sake, I guess you /could/ create your own streams which would swallow the newlines. :-) 22:48:33 zajn: are you using PRINT? 22:48:52 I'm using the function y-or-n-p 22:49:04 tcr: I might end up doing that 22:49:05 no way! 22:49:25 but are you also using PRINT? 22:49:31 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:38 stassats`: No. 22:49:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-130.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:49 because y-or-n-p doesn't create double newlines in any implementation i tested 22:50:09 -!- fagostostenes is now known as iLogical 22:50:13 stassats`: Well, that's weird. 22:51:45 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:53:06 I'll try using a different implementation and see how it works out 22:53:15 which implementation are you using? 22:53:44 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Client Quit] 22:53:46 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:46 I'm using clisp 22:53:56 ill try sbcl 22:53:57 no double newlines there 22:54:06 zajn: you're lucky there are statements. Other implementations of y-or-n-p could draw ascii art dialogs, or put out real GUi dialogs! 22:54:12 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:54:37 pjblispworks does provide a GUI dialog 22:54:48 pjb: That's actually quite frightening. 22:54:48 zajn: Anyways, you should probably use *query-io* with y-or-n-p, and *standard-output* for flow output. 22:55:07 slyrus [~chatzilla@97-122-255-171.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:36 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-253-8-204.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:57:06 stassats`: I assume so indeed. And even CLI implementations could call out to xdialog or xmenu when a DISPLAY is available. 22:58:23 (defun x-y-or-n-p (&optional control &rest args) (shell-command-to-string (format nil "xmessage -buttons Yes:0,No:1 ~S && echo T || echo NIL" (format nil 22:58:36 "~?" control args)))) 22:58:40 + an intern. 22:59:04 harj [~harj@109.176.207.125] has joined #lisp 22:59:11 I should not edit code in erc buffers 23:01:36 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 23:03:09 pjb: Well sbcl gives me the same problem 23:03:21 zajn: what terminal are you using? 23:03:31 zajn: I'm using rxvt and both clisp and sbcl work as expected 23:03:38 I'm in emacs/slime 23:03:40 zajn: why don't you just paste the code? 23:03:44 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:8c5f:8af:d861:2c9e] has joined #lisp 23:03:48 zajn: it is important that the user see that she's asked a question, and that it's not just a normal message issued along the flow. 23:04:15 pjb: So, naturally, it will do this? 23:04:45 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24-246-29-8.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:04:45 zajn: Yes. I would even (format *query-io* "~%~72,,,'-<~>~%") before and after (y-or-n-p) 23:04:52 well, the after-newline is going to be there, because you yourself enter it 23:04:53 zajn: emacs is doing it. It doesn't happen in a regular terminal 23:05:24 I'll try terminal 23:05:25 jasom: doesn't happen in emacs either 23:05:35 stassats`: it does for me 23:06:06 Anyways, y-or-n-p has a big problem: it's not localized (in general). You should probably write your own anyways. 23:06:16 jasom: (progn (princ "foo") (finish-output) (princ (y-or-n-p "foo")) (values)) works the same in terminal and emacs 23:06:32 stassats`: http://paste.lisp.org/+2VOW 23:07:31 notice the blank-line between the y-or-n-p outputs 23:07:32 jasom: that gives me the same thing in the terminal too 23:07:38 that doesn't happen in the terminal 23:07:45 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 23:08:19 stassats`: oh, you're right. I was trying clisp at the terminal, not sbcl 23:08:26 -!- harj [~harj@109.176.207.125] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:37 Daisy [~Daisy@c-3d42e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 23:10:27 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-221-239-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:11:04 Well, I guess its a minor issue, anyways. sbcl has newlines while clisp doesn't in terminal 23:11:54 well, the problem is that it doesn't know that RET, which the terminal is echoing, makes it a new line, so FRESH-LINE outputs another one 23:12:17 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/session] has joined #lisp 23:12:36 stassats`: Yeah, that makes sense 23:15:13 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/session] has quit [Changing host] 23:15:13 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 23:16:44 yeah, you see the same thing with e.g. (progn (read) (fresh-line) (print "hi")) 23:16:58 that should be a tripple-newline 23:17:18 stassats`: yup 23:17:22 instead of double 23:17:28 thanks to PRINT 23:18:20 k change print to format t and you get the more obvious issue 23:18:46 I'm guessing sbcl doesn't ask the terminal if it's on a new line, it just remembers if it's output a newline? 23:18:53 yes 23:19:21 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@97-122-255-171.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:23:53 danlentz [~danlentz@2601:c:3680:1c:140e:ddf3:838c:1ad0] has joined #lisp 23:26:16 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@78.35.175.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:30:04 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 23:30:31 Bike [~Glossina@c-24-21-88-250.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:51 *jasom* guesses zajn could always (setf (sb-imple::fd-stream-char-pos stream) 0) between calls to y-or-n-p 23:33:37 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@2601:c:3680:1c:140e:ddf3:838c:1ad0] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 23:33:39 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A18D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:33:40 jasom: Yeah, I guess that would work. 23:34:12 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-011-201.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:34:19 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:35:09 of course, sbcl should probably do that when reading a newline on an io-stream 23:35:41 (though it's complicated, since not all io-streams are interactive streams) 23:36:07 oh, but there is an :interactive-p already there so sbcl knows it it's interactive 23:37:13 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:39:39 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:41:51 -!- ebobby [~fms@189.170.27.127] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:45:31 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 23:46:11 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:48:41 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has joined #lisp 23:48:56 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:54:57 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 23:58:36 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1]