00:02:57 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:04:37 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~bruce@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:05:05 ArmyOfBruce [~bruce@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 00:05:11 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@96.241.56.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:44 Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:52 Forty-3 [~seana11@96.241.56.222] has joined #lisp 00:07:28 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.20.77] has joined #lisp 00:14:30 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:18:48 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:21:15 user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:42 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-3.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:24:41 is there an extension of dolist that not only iterates through the list but also provides the list index (0, 1, etc.)? 00:27:57 something like (dolist (list-element list-index (list "a" "b" "c"))(blah)) 00:28:14 -!- Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-244-231.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:29:58 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-3.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:45 calebopeko [~calebopek@ip-88-153-139-127.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 00:31:58 yates: use (loop for i from o for elt in list ...) 00:33:05 that should be 0 not o 00:33:29 fe[nl]ix: ok, thanks 00:35:37 EventHorizon [~asdf@107-200-38-103.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:08 doomlord [~doomlod@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:37:48 sw2wolf [~czsq888@220.166.236.175] has joined #lisp 00:39:41 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 00:41:26 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-3.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:41:34 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 00:43:56 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@59.35.103.164] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 00:44:02 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 00:44:38 aynik_ [~aynik@g225032061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:45:42 -!- aynik [~aynik@unaffiliated/aynik] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:45:45 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:00 -!- amado [~amado@187.209.62.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:46:38 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-3.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:22 -!- aynik_ [~aynik@g225032061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 00:48:11 amado [~amado@209.99.3.223] has joined #lisp 00:48:34 -!- calebopeko [~calebopek@ip-88-153-139-127.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:49:11 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 00:51:32 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:54:00 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:54:45 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 00:56:06 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-217-72.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:02:27 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:03:24 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:04:22 why doesn't this work: (defun my-fun (my-list) (let* ((no 0)) (dolist (item my-list) (print pin-no) (+ pin-no 1)))) 01:04:42 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 01:04:47 correction: (defun my-fun (my-list) (let* ((no 0)) (dolist (item my-list) (print no) (+ no 1)))) 01:04:52 because you don't actually alter no. try incf. 01:05:08 01:05:18 k0001 [~k0001@186.153.73.149] has joined #lisp 01:05:21 Bike: thanks. 01:08:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.176.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:11:01 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:48 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:12:53 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@220.166.236.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:06 sw2wolf [~czsq888@220.166.236.175] has joined #lisp 01:14:03 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14:30 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:14:30 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:16:45 yates: btw, using let instead of let* is good practice 01:16:51 yates: when possible, obviously 01:19:42 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-147-75.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:20:05 ikki [~ikki@187.240.176.65] has joined #lisp 01:21:23 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 01:23:00 Oladon [~Oladon@98.245.40.6] has joined #lisp 01:25:55 madnificent: why is that? 01:30:12 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.190.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:30:27 -!- yates [~user@nc-71-54-138-0.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:31:11 -!- dodo_ [~dodo@61.173.119.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:32:39 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 01:34:51 hertz [~newblue@113.84.231.88] has joined #lisp 01:38:28 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:44:02 dodo_ [~dodo@50.117.114.6] has joined #lisp 01:46:32 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:56 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-3.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:49:01 so quiet here :) 01:49:24 Everyone's off coding wonderful things 01:49:58 maybe 01:51:50 People wouldn't do anything else, would they? 01:52:29 Using ERC is one thing i need to do :) 01:52:49 now 01:55:08 (defsetf ,fun-symbol ,set-symbol) what's defsetf ? 01:55:37 it defines a setf expander. you could look it up. 01:55:40 without knowing, I'd guess it defines a setf 01:55:45 -!- lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:56:38 Would you show me the expand result of defsetf ? 01:58:49 What? 01:58:56 (type-of 'a) => Symbol 01:59:27 (macroexpand-1 (defsetf 'a 'b')) reports error 01:59:42 You forgot to quote it 01:59:51 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 02:00:15 The name of the accessor must be a symbol, not 'a ... 02:00:37 indeed. this is why it's useful to consult manuals rather than just trying whatever comes to mind. 02:00:39 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:00:42 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 02:00:48 -!- hertz [~newblue@113.84.231.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:01:07 But trying whatever comes to mind allows for so much more... creativity 02:01:42 In fact i never use defsetf in my CL code ... 02:01:52 in my implementation defsetf expands into the unexciting «(SB-IMPL::ASSIGN-SETF-MACRO 'A NIL NIL 'B NIL)». as you can see, this isn't a good way to learn anything on its own. 02:02:01 jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 02:02:06 (defsetf a b) does, rather. 02:02:17 maybe if you learned what defsetf did, you could start using it in your code. 02:02:27 yes 02:02:29 (macroexpand '(defsetf a b)) 02:02:31 (EVAL-WHEN (:COMPILE-TOPLEVEL :LOAD-TOPLEVEL :EXECUTE) (CCL::STORE-SETF-METHOD 'A 'B)) 02:02:42 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:03:28 Mine's a lot longer than that, so I'm not gonna paste it here. 02:04:39 juiko` [~user@pc-39-16-161-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:40 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:06:24 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:34 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:04 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:04 hertz [~newblue@113.84.231.88] has joined #lisp 02:08:08 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:09:47 CLisp outputs a longer result too 02:09:48 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11:41 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-2925066520.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:12:02 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 02:13:03 How do I "(apply #'and some-list)" since it is a macro? 02:13:17 *Oladon* boggles 02:13:30 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:14:04 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.176.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:14:58 clhs every 02:14:58 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_everyc.htm 02:15:03 that, derekv 02:15:49 #'every and #'some for and/or 02:16:00 Bike: thanks got it 02:20:06 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:20:21 guestor [~user@183.220.151.81] has joined #lisp 02:22:04 -!- guestor [~user@183.220.151.81] has left #lisp 02:22:20 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:22:53 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-2-81.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:23:35 puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:23:57 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 02:26:27 Useful with #'identity 02:27:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-186.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:28:53 jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 02:29:38 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 02:30:00 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:42 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:31:32 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:33:04 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 02:34:44 -!- gridaphobe [~user@169.228.188.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:37:42 talifree [~talifree@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:43 HydanData [~user@ip-89-102-31-29.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 02:38:36 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:39:34 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:39:53 -!- talifree is now known as tali713 02:39:58 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:48 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 02:42:18 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 02:44:46 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:47:09 -!- bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:00:50 Oladon1 [~Oladon@c-98-245-40-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:08 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:02:00 -!- HydanData [~user@ip-89-102-31-29.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:02:26 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@98.245.40.6] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:02:28 -!- Oladon1 is now known as Oladon 03:04:15 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@96.241.56.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:05:18 So I think, I have some grasp of closures ... now I need to learn to write readable code in lisp. 03:06:41 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 03:07:29 bananagram 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[~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:22 guestor [~user@223.85.0.101] has joined #lisp 05:37:16 -!- seerhut_ [~seerhut@96.44.153.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:37:27 seerhut_ [~seerhut@96.44.153.58] has joined #lisp 05:39:00 -!- engblom` is now known as engblom 05:39:01 -!- engblom [~user@86-60-152-181-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi] has quit [Changing host] 05:39:01 engblom [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has joined #lisp 05:40:38 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-2925066520.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:41:06 -!- guestor [~user@223.85.0.101] has left #lisp 05:44:13 -!- CrazyEddy [~floatabil@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:45:54 Now i know #*->bit vector, #'->function, #:->symbol, #()->vector what does #. mean? 05:46:20 clhs #. 05:46:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm 05:46:42 thx 05:56:41 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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*.asd file ? 08:19:39 i.e. (defmethod perform ((o test-op) (c (eql (find-system 'hunchentoot)))) 08:19:39 (load (merge-pathnames "run-test.lisp" (system-source-directory c)))) 08:19:47 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-87-18.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:50 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 08:23:58 kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 08:23:59 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.251.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:24:14 liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has joined #lisp 08:34:45 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:24 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:39:00 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:39:26 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:43 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-96-198.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:42:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-151.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:42:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-151.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:43:36 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 08:43:36 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 08:43:36 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 08:45:04 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-141-188.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:46:05 hello 08:46:39 how can I trace/capture output (trace preferable) to the non-main thread of execution? 08:48:40 guestor [~user@223.85.11.171] has joined #lisp 08:54:02 also, if I kill the main thread, will it automatically kill the others? 08:55:25 since multiprocessing isn't standardized, consult the docs of your implementation 08:56:07 shwouchk: in general, threads should never be "killed" 08:56:14 shwouchk: depends on how you "kill" it 08:56:53 shwouchk: it should terminate. otherwise, you're putting your whole process at stake because you have no control over how the killed thread leaves back your shared memory image. 08:56:56 p_l, sb-thread:terminate-thread 08:57:24 shwouchk: remember that with threads, you have no resource management. all resources are shared. 08:57:53 H4ns, I understand. I want to do it only when I try to exit the program anyway 08:58:18 shwouchk: sb:exit 08:58:26 shwouchk: sb-ext:exit, that is. 08:58:30 want it to exit gracefully, so that I can reuse the slime buffer 08:58:35 hmm 08:59:10 though come to think of it, I won't be able to reuse it if I kill the main thread, nor if I use exit probably? 09:00:18 in that case, back to my previous question 09:00:27 how can I trace/capture output (trace preferable) to the non-main thread of execution? 09:01:07 shwouchk: i don't know what you mean precisely, but you'll need to set up *trace-output* correctly 09:01:20 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:54 H4ns, I want the tracing output of functions tagged by (trace func) to be in the console 09:02:25 shwouchk: set *trace-output* so that it points to the stream that is your console. 09:02:31 -!- dodo_ [~dodo@50.117.114.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:02:48 H4ns, when the function I'm tracing is in the main thread, all is well but if it is not, then I don't see output 09:03:54 shwouchk: it is in the *inferior-lisp* buffer. you need to set *trace-output* for your non-main threads if you want them to log to the "console", whatever it is for you 09:03:56 H4ns, I just checked, and it remains stdout 09:04:09 -!- guestor [~user@223.85.11.171] has left #lisp 09:04:23 shwouchk: *trace-output* is a stream. you need to... oh, i think i said that 09:04:33 (make-thread (lambda () (print *trace-output*))) 09:04:33 #<#:SYMBOL SB-SYS:*STDOUT* {10001DCB03}> 09:05:31 shwouchk: bindings are not automatically shared by new threads. 09:06:23 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:06:32 H4ns, what does that mean? Isn't the previous paste showing that the new thread's *trace-output* is stdout? 09:07:21 -!- benny [~user@i577A3EA6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:07:24 HydanData [~user@ip-89-103-110-14.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:07:48 H4ns, I get the same SYMBOL SB-SYS:*STDOUT* {10001DCB03} if I just type *trace-output* in console 09:09:00 when you say "console", what do you mean? 09:10:04 H4ns, either the slime buffer or sbcl running in a shell 09:11:05 in my slime repl, *trace-output* is bound to #. in *inferior-lisp*, it is bound to # 09:11:42 hold on 09:11:55 I was actually testing this in the shell now 09:13:47 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 09:14:01 H4ns, I'm sorry, you are right of course. I pasted the output of what I get in a shell, but in slime it is different for some reason 09:15:01 AWizzArd [~the@splendidlord.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:18 H4ns, *inferior-lisp* is unbound however 09:15:35 *inferior-lisp* is an emacs buffer name, not a cl special variable 09:15:44 aah 09:16:24 H4ns, and how do you check what it is bound to? 09:16:57 C-x b *inf 09:17:14 it is not bound, it is the name of an emacs buffer 09:17:16 it is weird, what you say about threads not sharing bindings. I thought the whole point of threads was shared state? 09:17:35 "point of threads", you're confused. 09:18:00 "dynamic binding" and "threads" are two orthogonal concepts. 09:18:37 ok, I agree to that 09:18:39 when a thread is created, it has some dynamic bindings. as cl does not specify threads, it is not standardized which bindings it has. 09:18:49 I see 09:19:21 you cannot assume that a new thread automatically inherits all dynamic bindings from the thread that creates it. 09:19:43 H4ns, so I gather that my relying on a shared object to pass messages between threads is not a good way to do it? 09:20:08 you're confusing matters again 09:20:56 when you create a thread, lexical bindings are in effect. so if you create some share data structure and then pass a reference to that structure using lexical binding, then you're doing it completely right. 09:21:40 H4ns, I guess I don't know the difference between different binding types yet. 09:21:55 dynamic bindings are a different matter. they are not shared by default (in most implementations), and if you want to ensure a certain binding for a dynamic variable in a newly created thread, then you should pass it by the way of a lexical binding into the new thread and _then_ bind the dynamic variable. 09:22:26 shwouchk: the difference between dynamic and lexical binding is fundamental, you need to learn how it works. 09:22:31 i'm currently doing (defparameter *state* nil) in the main thread, and in the daughter thread check the value of *state* when i need 09:22:59 shwouchk: if you do not re-bind *state*, then it acts as a global variable and things are all good. 09:23:09 but consider *trace-output* in slime: 09:23:17 hmm 09:23:34 the globla value of it is stdout, but in the listener repl, it is bound to the slime-output-stream 09:23:35 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@220.166.236.175] has left #lisp 09:23:51 aha 09:24:03 new threads get the global value, not the binding of the listener repl thread 09:24:29 aha 09:24:41 a binding is created with let, let*, defun, lambda, multiple-value-bind, destructuring-bind and the like. 09:24:44 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-61-139.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:24:56 H4ns, are dynamic bindings the stuff I get with let? 09:25:08 heh 09:25:11 asked too late 09:25:25 yes, when the variable is declared as special (usually by the way of defvar or defparameter) 09:25:51 special variables are dynamically bound, just so you know. 09:26:00 aha 09:26:02 spend some time looking up these things in the clhs glossary 09:26:10 I will 09:27:05 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.63] has joined #lisp 09:27:59 benny [~user@i577A7DF8.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:29:42 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:30:52 H4ns, and thanks 09:31:01 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 09:31:43 sure. enjoy :) 09:35:32 doomlord [~doomlod@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:39:01 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@c-98-245-40-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:35 H4ns, ps, after I went to *inferior-lisp* and interacted with it (typred () enter) suddenly threads do return the output and also tell me that *trace-output* is stdout. weird. (before I interacted, nothing printed even) 09:43:10 shwouchk: buffering. try using FINISH-OUTPUT (or FORCE-OUTPUT) 09:44:55 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:44:58 jdz, the thing is, after the first interaction, now everything prints immediately. still seems strange to me 09:45:05 though I accept your premise 09:47:00 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 09:48:56 puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:50:36 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-hlfyaikuiosowwwd] has joined #lisp 09:55:29 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 09:58:45 -!- bc1 [no@ip70-173-127-61.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:56 bc1 [no@ip70-173-127-61.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:59:37 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: sudden death] 10:02:54 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 10:03:05 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 10:03:06 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:03 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 10:04:32 niels1 [~niels@p4FD6C04B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:27 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 10:12:02 anybody remember the swank-indentation magic to get a nested (&key ....) argument in a macro to lineup like values/slots and not like a function call? 10:13:22 segv-: the slime-indentation contrib? 10:13:44 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:48 jdz: yeah, somewhere in there there's a way to do it, but i can't remember how 10:13:51 and i'm lazy... 10:14:25 hmm, i'm not really sure what you want now 10:14:56 if have a macro whose lambda list is (name (&key a b c) &body body) 10:15:25 the standard indentation for :b in that is 'under' the value of :a (assuming they're given in that order). i'd like the :b to line up with :a 10:15:35 i'll paste an example 10:17:10 -!- AWizzArd [~the@splendidlord.com] has left #lisp 10:17:21 Xizor [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:17:37 http://paste.lisp.org/display/133965 10:18:17 once upon a time i wrote the code to do this, but it's been a while...and if you don't know it off the top of your head don't bother to look it up. it's not that important. 10:18:36 segv-: well, for me it indents as you want... 10:18:44 oh. 10:19:06 segv-: what version is your slime? 10:19:54 -!- shwouchk [~kosta@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:20:04 um, my bad. 10:20:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:20:20 i should have just loaded the slime-indentation contrib.... 10:20:54 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-122-122.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:21:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:24:46 i think nikodemus was the one implementing keyword (also &key in defining forms) indentation a while ago 10:25:02 implementing/fixing/enhancing 10:25:13 well, whatever he did it works perfectly if you rememebr to load the code.... 10:25:20 yeah :) 10:26:45 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 10:27:33 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 10:33:48 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c38f7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:27 Have anyone tried to make this work in a modern common lisp? http://www.cs.uml.edu/~giam/91.531/Code/mul-flavors.lisp 10:37:10 Cymew: but why? 10:37:15 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.251.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:38:20 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-164-252.w109-222.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:39:01 Cymew: what's the problem with it in a current CL? 10:39:50 it's not supposed to work on systems which already have superset of the features 10:39:58 s/work/load 10:40:48 I'm curious about Flavors and would like to fool around with it. 10:41:21 mal_: It refers to the USER:SELF symbol quite frequently, for example. 10:41:24 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:41:31 Cymew: trying that file to load in Common Lisp implementation would also qualify as "fooling around", so go ahead 10:41:47 Now you are just being contrary 10:41:48 Cymew: it loads alright with two small fixes to the package forms, but it seems to require a number of user defined functions (defflavor2, write-form, etc.) 10:42:03 but you can play around with that 10:42:32 defwhopper? really? 10:42:44 It loads that well for you? Hmm. What implentation are you using segv-? 10:42:59 Cymew: ccl, i added this at the top of the file: 10:43:19 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:43:52 If someone have any cleaner way to test out Flavors concepts, feel free to advice me where to look. 10:44:01 http://paste.lisp.org/display/133966 10:44:12 now, it loads, that certainly doesn't mean it works... 10:44:25 Cymew: there is very (very) little in flavors that isn't in CLOS. 10:44:48 IIRC Allegro still supports Flavors 10:45:01 if you're interested in seeing how to implement an object system then it might help (though AMOP is probably better for that too) 10:45:05 sw2wolf [~sw2wolf@110.188.68.100] has joined #lisp 10:45:11 otherwise i'm worried you're just going to confuse yourself 10:45:31 If you have code using Flavors and want to load it to study, an implementation of Flavors would be nice. 10:46:02 I could cook it up using AMOP, but it's not what I'd like spending time on. 10:46:07 fair enough. 10:46:27 mal_: Interesting. I'll look into that. Thanks. 10:46:45 "I'm curious about Flavors and would like to fool around with it." => implied, to me, that you were just looking at old OO implementations, not that you had code you wanted to run 10:46:48 for just fooling around, their free version should be good enough 10:47:07 Sounds likely, yes. 10:47:34 segv-: Sorry. I was being a bit sloppy with my phrasing. 10:47:43 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-23-81.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:47:46 o_O 10:47:49 defwhopper 10:48:11 nice flavor 10:48:25 (defroyal :WITH-CHEESE ... ) 10:48:54 Cymew: flavors is very obsolete. I mean, it sure is nice to tinker with ancient stuff, but be warned that it is ancient stuff. 10:49:09 Say what you want about the object systems in vogue before CLOS, they had funkier names. ;) 10:49:22 prxq: It sure is 10:49:34 the future ones also will have funkier names 10:49:36 Cymew: no committee trying to smooth things for "enterprise" :P 10:49:42 ;) 10:50:33 I actually think Arc/Clojure whatever could use less square brackets and more funny names. 10:50:47 But then I'm just being silly 10:51:04 bt thn t wldnt b cncs 10:51:10 the extra paren types are annoying, yes 10:51:12 flavors may be a funny name, but hunchentoot isn't a lot better.... 10:51:21 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host15.190-226-192.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:51:35 I have not really understood what the heck hunchentoot is 10:51:51 i don't share edi's love for zappa either :D 10:52:03 Cymew: it's a web server 10:52:23 I guess I can relate to the ice-cream ancestry of Flavors... 10:52:38 Ah, so it's a Zappa reference. I must have missed that 10:52:42 taking naming advice from someone who names one of his children Moon Unit is iffy indeed 10:52:56 Moon Unit?! 10:53:07 Moon Unit sounds like fine name 10:53:34 segv-: It was just the name that had me stumped 10:53:40 She has three younger siblings, Dweezil, Ahmet, and Diva Muffin. 10:53:46 right. 10:54:03 Zappa didn't just make weird music... 10:55:04 I had a project for a web server myself, before laziness overtook me. I called that one Raven. 10:55:39 *Cymew* suddenly feels the urge to red up on the condition system in order to make Raven work again 10:57:02 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00:07 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-87-18.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:00:30 puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:00:32 combine it with a persistence system you call Meatloaf 11:01:11 -!- renard_ [~renard@2a01:e0b:1:150:ca0a:a9ff:fef1:a847] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:04:00 how "Ephestos" sound for a name of a project ? 11:07:39 -!- qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:09:23 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.240.236] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 11:11:54 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 11:12:01 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-tudufxwpafjrdril] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:15:37 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-heesewbybyznqmsw] has joined #lisp 11:17:09 ircmouser [~guest@c-71-197-117-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:26 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-heesewbybyznqmsw] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:22:30 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-iwbilyvbnhusivod] has joined #lisp 11:22:38 renard_ [~renard@cw-svc0.chezwam.org] has joined #lisp 11:23:58 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 11:24:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:24:52 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 11:26:30 browndawg [~prajjwal@117.201.90.15] has joined #lisp 11:27:22 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:28:36 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-iwbilyvbnhusivod] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:29:25 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-bxglqcnnfruzjbiu] has joined #lisp 11:31:22 What would be a really fast way of reading 100k integers from a text file (separated by newlines) and storing it in a list in Clisp? Reading it line-by-line and nconc'ing (parse-int line) to a list is incredibly slow. ~11 seconds on my machine. What would be a more efficient way of doing this? 11:31:36 clhs read-sequence 11:31:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_seq.htm 11:31:40 browndawg: avoid read-line 11:32:21 browndawg: try reading the whole file into memory, too. it will end up in the buffer cache anyway, unless you're very low on ram 11:33:26 browndawg: and finally, why do you want the numbers in a list? random access will be slow, and if you only need sequential access, why cons up a list? 11:33:59 i.e. use an array :) 11:34:13 or calculate the result on the fly, righ 11:34:13 t 11:34:52 H4ns: Need to sort. Well, actually need to count inversions in O(n.log(n)) times 11:35:02 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-bxglqcnnfruzjbiu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:35:09 browndawg: i promised a finally, but here is another thought, relating to slurping the whole file: parse-integer has a :junk-allowed keyword argument and returns the end of the number as a second value. 11:35:31 (end of the number in the input string, as index) 11:35:42 H4ns: ^ is that going to help performance? 11:35:50 it could. 11:36:16 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ilsaacsqyfgbbhdg] has joined #lisp 11:36:17 i'd try reading the whole thing into memory and then iterate over it with parse-integer, using :junk-allowed and :start 11:36:45 agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:01 H4ns: :) okay 11:37:06 H4ns: Let me try that 11:37:21 browndawg: and note that cl:sort accepts a sequence argument. 11:38:26 -!- varjagg [u4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kcnzfetqqjenenbs] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 11:38:34 not using the inbuilt sort 11:38:51 basically pigy backing on merge sort to count inversions in the array 11:39:18 well, your key to fast reading is avoiding read-line, and clisp for that matter :D 11:39:45 H4ns: I don't need it to be _that_ fast, but even my ruby implementation runs in 1.2 seconds 11:40:22 ok - chomp a bit on what you've heard to see how you can get lisp up to speed. 11:40:34 basic82 [3df5a535@gateway/web/freenode/ip.61.245.165.53] has joined #lisp 11:40:36 H4ns: and Clisp reads the file fast enough, the bottleneck in when I (nconc l (parse-int line)) 11:40:49 H4ns: Yes, trying 11:40:51 browndawg: how certain are you that it'll be \d+\n ? 11:41:02 (that the data in the file is good) 11:41:12 segv: 100% certain 11:41:44 segv: The input is not the problem, my other implementations run just fine. The problem is when I construct the list it takes 10+ seconds. 11:42:00 segv: I mean the input file is not the problem 11:42:12 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ilsaacsqyfgbbhdg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:42:24 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:43:07 browndawg: parsing 100k integers and consing up a list with them takes 0.02 seconds with sbcl on my box 11:43:16 browndawg: (time (length (loop for i from 0 below 100000 collect (parse-integer "20000000")))) 11:43:28 browndawg: also, don't NCONC; if not using LOOP with COLLECT, use PUSH + REVERSE 11:43:33 H4ns: Yes, I must be doing it wrong. 11:44:00 browndawg: how long does the expression that i pasted run for you? 11:44:04 H4ns: (with-open-file (str "blah.txt") 11:44:04 (loop for line = (read-line str nil) 11:44:04 while line do (nconc l (list line)))) 11:44:05 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-edszcghkvqwkrbwp] has joined #lisp 11:44:09 ^ this is what I was doing 11:44:35 That has n^2 behavior. 11:44:42 :D 11:44:54 sorry don't know much lisp 11:44:56 browndawg: use collect instead 11:45:01 browndawg: oh, yes? :D 11:45:26 browndawg: while line collect (parse-integer line) 11:45:34 H4ns: Hahaha! Your code took 0.17 s 11:45:38 thank yew 11:45:41 *bow* 11:49:32 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-edszcghkvqwkrbwp] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:49:35 :) Everything runs in 1.5 seconds now. Thank you. 11:50:37 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-kvlvzzngjowffgjn] has joined #lisp 11:51:18 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:51:20 still slower than ruby 11:51:37 try sbcl!11 lisp can't be coming out slower! 11:51:41 -!- agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:52:10 lol 11:52:31 shouldn't read-sequence be a bit faster yet? 11:52:59 than read-line? of course. 11:53:28 then there are tricks like forcing 8bit streams... :D 11:53:32 the problem with read-sequence is that it does not stop on newlines 11:53:53 H4ns: runtime is b/w 1.2 to 1.5s 11:54:03 -!- sw2wolf [~sw2wolf@110.188.68.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:54:09 browndawg: yes. 0.3s slower for lisp? unacceptable. 11:54:20 H4ns: Well, to be fair, I'm still using read-line 11:54:21 browndawg: if you pasted all of your code, we could show you what you're doing wrong! 11:54:54 browndawg: when you read properly, lisp will probably be twice as fast as ruby 11:55:07 (with-open-file (str "~/IntegerArray.txt") (loop for i from 0 below 100000 collect (parse-integer (read-line str))))) 11:55:18 H4ns: :) yes 11:55:24 sw2wolf [~sw2wolf@110.188.68.100] has joined #lisp 11:55:28 agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:47 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-kvlvzzngjowffgjn] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:56:15 browndawg: how big are the numbers? 11:56:26 H4ns: I'm not using sbcl. I'm using clisp 11:56:37 jdz: 5 digits on average? 11:56:37 browndawg: understood 11:56:37 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:56:49 H4ns: Should I be using SBCL? 11:57:08 browndawg: if you're interested in speed, yes 11:57:14 H4ns: I understand that I shouldn't be using read-line but this is fast enough. I just wanted to test my inversion counter. 11:57:18 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ugshqyxauhdwrnop] has joined #lisp 11:57:21 H4ns: Any other benefits? 11:57:22 well, i/o speed might not be much better in sbcl 11:57:37 browndawg: not really, for what you want to do. 11:57:40 not looking to start an implementation war here 11:57:45 browndawg: carry on, care for your real problem :) 11:57:52 browndawg: i was just being silly, really 11:58:29 H4ns: Yeah. Still, if I ever use lisp in production, would sbcl be a better choice than clisp? 11:58:58 browndawg: depends on what you do. i'd say yes, but "production" does not carry enough meaning to give you any useful advice. 11:59:11 browndawg: if you stick to ansi cl and libraries from quicklisp, you can decide later on. 11:59:27 H4ns: Yeah, thanks. 11:59:27 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-hlfyaikuiosowwwd] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:00:50 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-hemllziannsoqhox] has joined #lisp 12:01:39 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 12:02:06 browndawg: as with (nearly) everything, it's a game of balance :) 12:02:25 hmm, for me reading the numbers with read-line takes about 0.020 seconds 12:02:35 puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:02:50 jdz: sbcl? 12:03:06 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ugshqyxauhdwrnop] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:03:10 H4ns: right, yes 12:03:21 i don't have clisp :/ 12:04:00 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-yztnnljvosptbjbh] has joined #lisp 12:04:00 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 12:04:04 what? 12:04:10 jdz: reading and parsing? 12:04:12 k installing sbcl 12:04:27 jdz: My exact same snippet? 12:04:35 reading and parsing takes 0.056 seconds here (sbcl) 12:04:40 not your code, though. 12:04:46 \o/ 12:04:52 *H4ns* feels the relief 12:05:11 yes, reading and parsing 12:05:49 ncw [~ncw@host86-173-93-56.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:06:14 stlifey [~stlifey@59.35.103.164] has joined #lisp 12:06:39 browndawg: well, not your exact snippet: i generated a file with 100k random numbers (below 100000), and doing (loop for line = (read-line in nil) while line collect (parse-integer line)) 12:07:07 :) 12:07:19 H4ns: Can haz your .056 second code? 12:08:06 browndawg: http://paste.lisp.org/display/133967 12:08:22 browndawg: it is certainly restricted in a few ways, but if the file is clean, it works well. 12:08:47 whitedawg [~suraj@122.179.109.254] has joined #lisp 12:09:20 the loop based code is slightly slower, but certainly much more readable 12:09:37 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-yztnnljvosptbjbh] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:09:45 H4ns: Thanks 12:10:37 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-xsfvkrkeexahqzbp] has joined #lisp 12:12:24 H4ns: your version is not really faster than the READ-LINE one (for me) 12:12:37 well, maybe a little bi 12:12:38 t 12:12:49 need bigger file 12:13:04 jdz: i see 0.56 vs 0.69 seconds, but my file contains random numbers from 0 to (1- most-positive-fixnum) 12:13:09 can't seem to replicate your 12:13:13 result 12:13:22 0.209s for me 12:13:25 browndawg: with clisp? what do you see? 12:13:27 what was your input size? 12:13:45 my input file has 20 mb 12:13:56 H4ns: I mean the running time. It works just fine, but taken .209s to read 100k integers from a text file 12:14:16 browndawg: how long does the loop based version take vs. the slurping one? 12:14:29 yeah, on 10M numbers, it's ~2.3 vs. ~1.6 12:15:06 performance tuning is fun. 12:15:07 H4ns: Your most recent paste was faster than anything. 0.2 s vs ~1 s 12:15:13 H4ns: Indeed 12:15:50 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-xsfvkrkeexahqzbp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:16:12 and ruby takes around 3 seconds 12:16:21 :D 12:16:26 victory! 12:16:45 jdz: Um 3 seconds on an input of what size? 12:17:12 -!- sw2wolf [~sw2wolf@110.188.68.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:17:12 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-fojvxkxdshihrbvo] has joined #lisp 12:17:55 AWizzArd [~the@splendidlord.com] has joined #lisp 12:18:08 well, 2.37 seconds if i read from file, not standard input 12:18:14 browndawg: 10M numbers 12:18:26 browndawg: 10M as in 10000000 12:18:38 jdz: Takes 0.086 for my 100k integer files 12:19:07 *integers from file 12:19:17 browndawg: for 100k ruby does it in 0.04 for me 12:19:44 jdz: Yeah. The lisp read-line version isn't the best thing to use in my case 12:20:03 cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-191-110.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:20:03 it's still 2x faster than ruby for me 12:20:43 and my ruby code just does line.to_i, without collecting it 12:20:52 jdz: The read-line version? The snippet H4ns pasted? 12:20:57 *H4ns* lost track of the numbers being thrown around. 12:21:06 browndawg: no, the read-line version is 2x faster than ruby version for me 12:21:08 but as long as lisp is faster, things are good 12:21:43 H4ns: Slower for me. My ruby version runs 2X faster than the clisp version 12:21:55 browndawg: clisp 12:22:03 hmm 12:22:04 browndawg: nuff said. 12:22:20 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-fojvxkxdshihrbvo] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:22:24 i'd say even clisp should be faster 12:22:42 "brew install clisp" 12:22:56 yeah, but apt-get instead 12:23:20 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 12:23:20 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:23:33 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-qsbuhxwdzzummehh] has joined #lisp 12:24:16 browndawg1 [~prajjwal@117.201.177.12] has joined #lisp 12:24:39 Kvaks [~kvaks@62.16.128.193] has joined #lisp 12:24:50 bitonic [~user@dyn1204-140.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:26:29 -!- browndawg [~prajjwal@117.201.90.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:27:40 quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:27:43 clisp actually is a bit slower with READ-LINE (~0.05 s); and H4ns's version hangs :/ 12:27:48 erm. well. the slurping version uses 70 seconds with clisp, 0.17 seconds for the read-line based version. 12:27:55 oh, no it doesn't, just takes ages 12:27:58 jdz: it does not hang, it is just very slow :D 12:28:18 ok. clisp. i'm not sure if i want to keep it in my file system. 12:28:20 that's a bit surprising... 12:28:27 sbcl is indeed faster 12:28:45 jdz: my guess is that it is wasting time on decoding the file. 12:28:45 much faster 12:28:49 much, much faster 12:28:50 jdz: but its just a guess. 12:29:00 it's 12:29:06 next time somebody here suggests clisp as an implementation for newbies, i'll complain loudly 12:29:09 time to stop wasting time on this. 12:29:11 0.02 vs 0.2 12:29:13 unreal 12:29:20 browndawg1: that is more like it. 12:29:30 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-qsbuhxwdzzummehh] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:30:27 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:30:37 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-uujzfluwqanlwfaa] has joined #lisp 12:31:03 haha, ecl is around 0.04s, just like ruby; H4ns's version is around 0.032s 12:31:48 well, 0.04 or less 12:31:51 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-151.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:34 0.03s vs 0.199s. Seriously unreal. 12:32:58 jdz: I don't think that there's any useable accuracy in these measurements. 12:33:02 TIL i don't need to try out clisp for another 10 years 12:33:15 flip214: good enough in this case 12:35:28 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-uujzfluwqanlwfaa] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:36:37 we're from 11 seconds down to 0.02. i don't see how accuracy would matter much :) 12:36:45 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-kczuvogxmpzgebnl] has joined #lisp 12:37:03 but on the other hand, we have used 1.5 programmer hours on this, while ruby was already done in the beginning 12:37:29 and even we smug lisp weenies can write the ruby version, while the fast lisp version takes quite some experience. 12:37:53 even (write) is faster in sbcl 12:38:05 H4ns: my point was that the dumb read-line version was good enough (and faster than ruby, anyway) 12:38:11 sbcl is printing the 100k int list 4X slower to my terminal 12:38:14 I mean 12:38:18 sbcl is 4X faster 12:38:30 browndawg1: have you tried binding *print-pretty* to nil? 12:38:51 browndawg1: around the printing loop 12:38:59 jdz: No? 12:39:04 browndawg1: then try it 12:39:06 let me try 12:39:15 well, I wouldn't be comfortable comparing 0.04 to 0.032 secs. 12:39:46 interesting 12:40:00 doing that makes sbcl slower but clisp faster 12:40:35 2.441s in sbcl vs 1.47 with pretty print 12:40:40 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:40:53 browndawg1: that sounds suspicious 12:41:04 and 4.5s vs 3.69 in clisp 12:41:17 I'm not kidding 12:41:52 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-kczuvogxmpzgebnl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:42:01 but I guess we're just wasting time here 12:42:06 doesn't matter, fast enough 12:43:12 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-acjkhkmwehbrglcm] has joined #lisp 12:46:12 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:46:34 <_d3f> how do I count entries in a structure? 12:48:02 _d3f: Why would you need something like that? 12:48:19 -!- browndawg1 [~prajjwal@117.201.177.12] has left #lisp 12:48:26 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:48:55 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-acjkhkmwehbrglcm] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:49:43 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-khaecmobjszcncna] has joined #lisp 12:51:08 <_d3f> engblom: for debugging. I want to know how many `lists' were created in my structure. 12:53:12 _d3f: Either structures are very different in lisp than in other languages, or then there is something I do not at all understand. I mean, a struct is variables bundled together... You could inspect each of those separately, running LENGTH for example on them.. 12:55:09 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-khaecmobjszcncna] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:55:33 _d3f: Not usre if it helps but you can declare the structure as (defstruct (my-struct :type list)...) 12:55:38 To make it more easily inspectable. 12:55:45 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-haawsbgahxbxmhjy] has joined #lisp 12:55:56 (defstruct (my-struct (:type list))...) 12:59:32 -!- quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:59:49 <_d3f> oh I see. 13:00:09 <_d3f> that's much better, thx. naryl 13:00:33 -!- basic82 [3df5a535@gateway/web/freenode/ip.61.245.165.53] has quit [] 13:01:09 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-haawsbgahxbxmhjy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:02:06 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-iiwdnwfyaggbrcuy] has joined #lisp 13:05:48 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:49 -!- fasta [~xchat@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:07:11 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-iiwdnwfyaggbrcuy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:08:17 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-qonitgxynshudxfz] has joined #lisp 13:08:43 minion: memo for shwouchk: you could use cl-stepper to trace a function running in a thread, but you would have to add locks on output (or just redirect the tracing to a thread-specific stream, which is already designed for). cl-stepper is in (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp). 13:08:43 Remembered. 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[~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 16:10:25 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:12:30 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-61-139.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 16:13:03 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:26 bsamograd [~user@samograd.ca] has joined #lisp 16:13:35 lufu [~user@5.254.129.81] has joined #lisp 16:14:26 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.129.81] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:39 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:19:49 synaesthetik [~c@nat-125-180.student.wireless.unca.edu] has joined #lisp 16:20:41 Can someone tell me what is the best Lisp dialect for developing machine learning algorithms? 16:21:04 synaesthetik, pick the one with the most libs around 16:21:21 Any suggestions? 16:21:28 reactormonk: Java? 16:21:57 there is a dialect that runs on jvm 16:22:01 forget which one 16:22:13 synaesthetik: Common Lisp 16:22:13 abcl does 16:22:19 oh 16:22:23 in form of abcl, right 16:24:17 synaesthetik: Clojure 16:24:33 -!- blackwol` is now known as blackwolf 16:24:33 synaesthetik: Moshe Looks at Google has been using SBCL: http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2008/11/plop-probabilistic-learning-of-programs.html 16:25:01 what an inconvenient last name 16:25:09 -!- Guest24979 is now known as reb` 16:25:15 -!- reb` is now known as brown 16:25:44 -!- brown is now known as Guest90004 16:26:03 haha 16:26:28 Hi, this is Moshe Looks at Google. 16:28:36 steel bank? 16:28:37 basic82 [3df5a535@gateway/web/freenode/ip.61.245.165.53] has joined #lisp 16:28:50 sbcl 16:32:52 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:39:16 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:31 -!- `fogus is now known as fojure 16:41:31 gridaphobe [~user@169.228.188.47] has joined #lisp 16:43:15 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:44:24 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:45:40 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-hemllziannsoqhox] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:50:11 AeroNotix [~xeno@aclk215.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:51:17 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:52:48 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:55:33 -!- basic82 [3df5a535@gateway/web/freenode/ip.61.245.165.53] has left #lisp 16:57:06 browndawg: clojure? is that pronounced closure? 16:57:31 it's pronounced "off-topic" 16:59:07 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:00:31 a lot of people find that ugly synaesthetik , myself included 17:00:48 ugly, stupid, misguided, whatever 17:01:15 RenJuan: can we not discuss this in #lisp, please? 17:01:19 Wha? asking how to pronounce clojure or all of it? 17:01:23 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:01:23 -!- phrixos_ [U2FsdGVkX1@ma.sdf.org] has left #lisp 17:01:33 all of it I guess 17:01:34 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01:43 synaesthetik: ask how to pronounce in #clojure 17:02:48 i can see why the clojure question is annoying, but the rest seems at least somewhat on topic 17:03:12 But I only ask here because it has the most people and there is no "Generic" Lisp channel 17:03:26 this channel should really be renamed 17:03:32 it shouldn't 17:03:47 there's just no clear way to do it 17:03:49 synaesthetik: that's not really an excuse, it's about Common Lisp 17:04:08 RenJuan: people just should read the topic 17:04:09 brandonz [~brandon@adsl-76-193-217-103.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:36 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:37 Well anyway, the question has been answered so there is no reason to keep talking about it. 17:04:52 but yeah, #lisp ought by right be about general lisp, scheme, cl, whatever 17:05:15 general lisp? what's that? 17:05:24 generic 17:05:33 all things deriving from lisp 17:06:06 common lisp, scheme, clojure, whatever are so different, i see no reason why would there be a need for a "general lisp" channel 17:06:08 that thing whose name cannot be mentioned, a lot of people would say it wasn't a lisp, unlike scheme 17:06:35 well that's you opinion stassats 17:06:43 That is my point stassats! 17:06:44 no, it's a fact 17:06:46 *your 17:07:12 yeah, it's your fact 17:07:18 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:07:26 scheme is a lisp? 17:07:51 I came here to Common Lisp to ask what lisp is best for machine learning because there is no channel for generic lisp 17:07:52 you might as well discuss python or haskell at your "general" channel 17:08:31 jdz: if you have a definition of "lisp", we can easily check 17:08:43 stassats: exactly. 17:08:45 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:08:52 Honestly I hoping people would just say that CL is good and that would be that 17:09:16 instead of a bitch as monoglot harangue 17:09:21 *bitch ass 17:09:34 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.32.82] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 17:09:54 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:10:06 > browndawg | synaesthetik: Clojure 17:10:11 browndawg: You should be ashamed :) 17:10:31 naryl: can we not do that again? 17:10:33 Oladon [~Oladon@c-98-245-40-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:36 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 17:10:37 -!- drewc [~drewc@50.7.166.100] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:10:37 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:10:37 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:10:37 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:10:37 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:10:37 -!- KingNato [~isildur@c-e9eee253.012-31-73746f43.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:10:37 -!- RenJuan [~juan@cpe-72-228-190-243.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:10:37 -!- spacefrogg^ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:10:37 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:10:37 -!- ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:10:37 -!- trigen_ [~MSX@devvers.tweaknet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:10:37 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.133] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:10:37 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@www31335u.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:10:37 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:10:37 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:10:44 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:44 synaesthetik: programming language will not solve problems for you 17:10:44 KingNato [~isildur@c-e9eee253.012-31-73746f43.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:10:48 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@www31335u.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:10:49 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:10:50 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 17:10:53 naryl: Why 17:10:56 -!- limetree [~user@194-218-167-2.customer.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:11:00 RenJuan [~juan@cpe-72-228-190-243.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:11:01 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:01 synaesthetik: a programming language you're familiar with will be better than any you are not 17:11:02 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 17:11:03 CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:11:10 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.133] has joined #lisp 17:11:13 trigen [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:3cb9:1f76:2bd6:7949] has joined #lisp 17:11:17 ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #lisp 17:11:20 jdz: but hey, what about being cool and hip? 17:11:21 spacefrogg^ [~spacefrog@141.76.92.5] has joined #lisp 17:12:14 think for yourself synaesthetik, it's the best way 17:12:23 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 17:12:40 synaesthetik_ [~c@nat-125-180.student.wireless.unca.edu] has joined #lisp 17:13:34 stassats: well, some people may claim JavaScript is also a lisp 17:13:44 andares__ [~andares@c-66-235-60-236.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:56 jdz: And ruby and python as well 17:14:08 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-233-091.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:13 jdz: so, it just becomes meaningless 17:14:22 think for yourself synaesthetik, it's the best way (did see you netsplit) 17:14:27 *didn't 17:15:15 jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:20 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:15:29 liweinan_ [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has joined #lisp 17:15:38 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 17:15:49 RenJuan I tried finding the answer for myself before coming here. 17:15:55 At least I did that. 17:16:05 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:16:06 -!- bsamograd [~user@samograd.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:11 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:16:29 value judgements are personal, surely you know that? 17:16:30 -!- EventHorizon [~asdf@107-200-38-103.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:16:33 I'm beginning to think the question itself is just wrong 17:16:43 -!- synaesthetik [~c@nat-125-180.student.wireless.unca.edu] has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 17:16:44 -!- synaesthetik_ is now known as synaesthetik 17:16:46 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.32.82] has joined #lisp 17:16:58 synaesthetik_: There isn't a 'best' language for anything. 17:17:08 -!- andares_ [~andares@c-66-235-60-236.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:17:09 That's what I mean 17:17:12 yes, asking what language should one use in a channel dedicated to a language is... not the best idea 17:17:26 rly 17:17:58 i watch a long screed about FB in #haskell this week though so it's not uncommon 17:17:59 is #lisp dedicated to common lisp or any lisp dialect? 17:18:00 Well if I had known anything about lisp before... 17:18:02 *watched 17:18:11 *FP 17:18:15 -!- Quix0te [~Quix0te@unaffiliated/quix0te] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:18:15 browndawg: have you not just read all that was being said? 17:18:28 haha 17:18:31 Quix0te [~Quix0te@75.108.91.76] has joined #lisp 17:18:37 it's also in the topic 17:18:38 stassats: let me scroll up 17:18:46 browndawg: Just read the topic :P 17:18:54 browndawg is just trying to derail everything 17:18:57 Oladon: As did I :) 17:19:06 synaesthetik: how? 17:19:07 That was imperative 17:19:16 Not "I just read the topic" 17:19:17 being sarcastic 17:19:46 Oladon: Oh yeah. I think I need to get more sleep. :) 17:19:58 This is generally a good diea 17:19:59 idea* 17:20:13 so, can we end all the meta-discussions? 17:20:19 yes 17:20:45 Oladon: Yeah. Shouldn't compromise on sleep. Or bad things happen. Like misreading messages on irc. 17:21:13 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 17:21:18 *RenJuan* wants to fight 17:21:42 if I could find something worth fighting for 17:21:43 sure lets start a dialect war 17:21:48 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 17:21:52 or an editor war, those are fun 17:21:53 I'm just going to go with Common Lisp for now 17:21:55 :D 17:22:09 see what I can do with that 17:22:33 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.245.193] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 17:24:46 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756e92.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:55 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: T] 17:25:34 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:26:07 samrat [~samrat@49.244.90.103] has joined #lisp 17:26:36 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:21 -!- gravicappa 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kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:12:50 (set-macro-character #\; nil) makes the Lisp reader treat a semicolon as an ordinary character, and this works for most special characters, but not for colons and full stops. Is there an easy way of making the reader handle those as ordinary characters (essentially read . and : as \. and \:)? 18:13:52 they are a part of the reader 18:14:15 so, you can't do anything 18:15:08 that smells like you're trying to use the reader for something other than reading lisp forms 18:15:39 and_: perhaps you can define your own macro function? 18:15:42 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 18:15:54 I remember having read about : and . ... but don't remember where. 18:16:01 -!- zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:16:18 flip214: macro function for what? you can't do a thing with : 18:17:46 member:stassats: Yes, I am trying to read syntactic trees written as s-expressions. 18:18:38 and_: i suggest you to write your own reader then 18:19:00 samrat [~samrat@49.244.136.149] has joined #lisp 18:19:23 I have seen code that defines : as a macro character and throws an error whenever a colon is seen, so I was hoping it would be possible to handle it somehow. 18:19:23 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-56.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 18:19:23 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-56.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 18:19:23 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 18:19:52 stassats: Yes, that is an option, of course. 18:19:53 and_: you can use reader-interception to use your own reader. 18:20:13 daimrod: or, you know, just use your own reader 18:20:24 and_: and it's really simple to do 18:24:03 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 18:26:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-151.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:27:37 -!- tfb [~tfb@fw-tnat.cambridge.arm.com] has left #lisp 18:28:05 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:33:09 -!- Nisani [~Nisani@rrcs-74-62-43-3.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:53 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:36:05 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 18:36:55 (It seems a bit surprising that this part of the reader cannot be customised. Is : hardcoded into the reader in all Common Lisp dialects?) 18:38:51 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 18:38:52 there are no common lisp dialects 18:39:18 clhs 2.2 18:39:19 Reader Algorithm: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_b.htm 18:41:56 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 18:43:08 Fair enough, I was probably thinking along the lines of implementation-specific idiosyncrasies or extensions. 18:43:25 clhs 2.3 18:43:26 Interpretation of Tokens: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_c.htm 18:43:34 is more relevant, i guess 18:44:36 -!- pjb [~t@92.103.75.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:44:54 well, basically, all the reader can do is create numbers and symbols 18:45:08 and : is a part of the symbol syntax, so it cannot be modified 18:45:37 and then there's special casing for dots, otherwise it would be too hard to find misplaced dots 18:46:22 the "i can use the reader to read anything" fallacy 18:46:50 when writing your own reader is like a page of code 18:46:52 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 18:47:08 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:47:53 two pages if you want to read things like floats 18:48:02 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:49:59 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 18:50:06 -!- liweinan_ [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:42 Lowl3v3l [~lowl3v3l@p54B90327.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:50:48 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-12-19.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:58 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 18:51:00 liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has joined #lisp 18:51:07 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@108-222-198-111.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:51:07 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 18:51:22 -!- ebobby is now known as Guest89267 18:52:12 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:19 liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has joined #lisp 18:52:47 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 18:54:27 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:54:59 I don't think it's that unreasonable to want to intercept turning "foo::bar:baz" into a token, for things which are 'almost lisp syntax' 18:55:41 -!- Guest89267 [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:55:47 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:56:03 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 18:56:11 (and reading floats is at least a bit of a pain when you already know that you have a float; when you don't yet know what you've got, it's definitely a pain) 18:56:51 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:56:54 but yeah, clearly the answer is to define read-macros on all alphabetic characters which accumulate their own tokens 18:57:10 what about :foo? 18:57:13 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 18:58:12 that actually works 19:00:44 jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has joined #lisp 19:02:27 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 19:04:33 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 19:05:13 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 19:05:23 -!- browndawg [~prajjwal@117.201.95.156] has left #lisp 19:07:24 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.20.77] has joined #lisp 19:07:45 -!- SHUPFS [~hercules@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:08:18 -!- Quix0te [~Quix0te@75.108.91.76] has quit [Changing host] 19:08:18 Quix0te [~Quix0te@unaffiliated/quix0te] has joined #lisp 19:09:39 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:12:35 jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:23 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 19:15:13 -!- HydanData [~user@ip-89-103-110-14.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:36 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 19:18:44 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195.160.233.181] has left #lisp 19:18:49 zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has joined #lisp 19:20:15 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-23-81.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:25:14 ikki [~ikki@187.240.176.65] has joined #lisp 19:25:31 k0001 [~k0001@host108.186-125-116.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:25:51 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:26:15 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:26:43 callen [~callen@unaffiliated/callen] has joined #lisp 19:27:06 are there templating libraries for Lisp that leave the HTML, JS, and CSS alone and don't try to turn them into Lisp code? 19:27:08 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@ip-64-134-66-210.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:27:13 and I basically looking at a mustache clone? 19:27:30 html-template maybe? 19:28:24 H4ns: kinda like enlive. It's pretty...grotesque if I'm honest. 19:28:24 -!- samrat [~samrat@49.244.136.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:29:01 callen: *shrug* 19:29:02 hi, is it safe to have my class inherit from regular class and a class with non-standard metaclass? I am talking about dao-class from postmodern 19:29:13 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.62.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:26 as long as it allows you to do so 19:29:52 stassats: so can I count on CLOS not letting me compile bad class hierarchy? 19:30:22 no, only on the meta-class authors 19:30:29 stassats: ok, thx 19:31:03 they are responsible for providing correct validate-superclass methods 19:32:24 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:33:48 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-12-105.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:35:39 -!- Lowl3v3l [~lowl3v3l@p54B90327.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 19:37:54 -!- amado [~amado@209.99.3.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:39:52 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.121.60] has joined #lisp 19:42:42 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:43:19 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:53 callen: cl-emb 19:45:27 callen: TALCL: https://github.com/AccelerationNet/talcl 19:47:10 talcl is XML but because there is a node that renders to nothing and you can embed values in the text, this has no practical limitations (ymmv) 19:48:45 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:26 callen: cl-emb is the most like non-lisp templating languages I've used. It's obviously designed around html as the "escape to lisp" characters default to <% %> but you can use it for anything. 19:50:55 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c38f7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:52:01 nan_` [~user@46.197.116.88] has joined #lisp 19:53:34 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 19:53:36 amado [~amado@187.209.62.188] has joined #lisp 19:54:36 refinedcode [~refinedco@CPE185933f89bce-CM185933f89bcb.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:21 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aclk215.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 19:56:32 Hi guys. I know this is a silly question but I have been searching for an answer for hours. How can I set a symbol's value equal to the value of another symbol? Both symbols were initialized in a let* block. 19:57:08 refinedcode: (setf symbol1 symbol2)? 19:57:48 AeroNotix [~xeno@aclk215.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:58:18 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aclk215.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 19:58:30 Yes that compiles. Thanks! 19:59:50 does anyone know who's managing planet.lisp.org? 20:00:14 Blkt: xach does that. 20:00:39 hi Blkt 20:00:52 -!- am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:02:46 AeroNotix [~xeno@aclk215.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:03:56 Joreji [~thomas@93-186.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:05:01 Daisy [~Daisy@c-3d42e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:06:07 hi fe[nl]ix 20:06:10 thanks H4ns 20:08:39 -!- synaesthetik [~c@nat-125-180.student.wireless.unca.edu] has quit [Quit: synaesthetik] 20:16:20 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f732ad9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:56 -!- bind [~bind@D4B2749A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:19:25 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:20:39 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@cgo79.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:21:29 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 20:23:18 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aclk215.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:24:25 -!- gridaphobe [~user@128.54.49.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:25:16 cromwell__ [~quassel@24-158-227-141.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:40 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@c-98-245-40-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29:42 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-164-252.w109-222.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:59 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:32:14 -!- and_ [~and@cpc16-cmbg17-2-0-cust555.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:32:40 bind [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:32:56 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:19 and`` [~and@cpc16-cmbg17-2-0-cust555.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:46 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 20:39:50 k0001_ [~k0001@host234.190-229-162.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 20:42:56 hm 20:42:59 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.121.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:43:03 I downloaded a lisp project in a folder 20:43:08 how do I load it in the REPL? 20:43:13 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host108.186-125-116.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:43:44 (ql:quickload 'projectname) 20:43:55 download it to ~/quicklisp/local-projects 20:44:00 Ralt_: what project? 20:44:07 a custom one 20:44:12 if it's not already available through QL 20:44:13 sykopomp ah, trying that 20:44:15 does it have an .asd file? 20:44:19 sykopomp it's not 20:44:21 stassats yeah 20:44:27 then what sykopomp said 20:45:01 [6502] [4e0cf39d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.243.157] has joined #lisp 20:45:53 thanks, that worked :) 20:46:19 <[6502]> Hello... does someone knows why declare forms are not wrapping their field of influence? 20:46:49 what does that mean? 20:47:38 *stassats* prepares for another awesome idea on how to improve CL by [6502] 20:48:06 <[6502]> there is no way to improve common lisp 20:48:28 could you clarify what you mean? if it's what i'm guessing there were some committee issues about it 20:48:31 -!- bitonic` [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:03 bitonic` [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:54 -!- hertz [~newblue@113.84.228.155] has left #lisp 20:50:14 the suspense is killing! 20:51:06 when do I get errors like "System "thing" is not found"? 20:51:15 when the package isn't in quicklisp? 20:51:27 and cannot be found locally 20:51:39 hm :/ 20:53:31 -!- refinedcode [~refinedco@CPE185933f89bce-CM185933f89bcb.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:53:36 refinedcode1 [~refinedco@CPE185933f89bce-CM185933f89bcb.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:13 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:20 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 20:58:40 <[6502]> wow... declarations looks much uglier than I thought 20:58:46 <[6502]> look 20:59:30 is that so? 21:00:05 <[6502]> stassats: the page on declatations in CLHS is scary 21:00:30 will you be that vague all the way through? 21:00:49 <[6502]> I need to understand more about the issue 21:00:54 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-45.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 21:00:54 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-45.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 21:00:54 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 21:00:56 what issue? 21:01:16 <[6502]> about declarations I mean 21:01:47 what issue with declarations do you have? 21:01:57 [6502]: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw51/CLHS/Issues/iss092.htm 21:02:30 -!- h3x3d1 [~h3x3d@37.204.46.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:02:32 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:46 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 21:05:17 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:06:37 -!- fojure is now known as fojure|gone 21:08:48 <[6502]> Bike: thanks for the pointer... i'll take for me some time to digest that 21:09:05 <[6502]> i'll=it will 21:09:16 <[6502]> l8r 21:09:58 -!- [6502] [4e0cf39d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.243.157] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:10:31 so, the behaviour described there appears to be completely natural 21:10:44 i would say so too. 21:11:15 although even if it weren't, i find it rather dubious to juggle special variables like this, ear-muffs are used for a reason 21:11:32 bobbysmith007: jasom: thank you! 21:12:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-186.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:12:06 well, it covers other declarations too. it's a pretty minor issue though 21:12:27 and a typo for "idiot" instead of "idiom" is mildly amusing 21:12:47 Bike: well, no other declarations change the semantics 21:13:11 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-248-171.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:58 true. 21:15:30 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-241-14.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:15:34 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:17:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-151.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:52 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:54 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-upzyrmosaottlsvy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:19:56 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:19:56 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 21:23:28 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:21 -!- refinedcode1 [~refinedco@CPE185933f89bce-CM185933f89bcb.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:25:47 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-lizoeribwnxtblsq] has joined #lisp 21:31:23 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f732ad9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:33:50 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 21:40:08 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:40:35 -!- agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:41:55 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:42:26 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f732ad9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:08 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:18 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756e92.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:46:25 -!- arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:47:14 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:29 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:32 -!- elliottcable is now known as RangeError 21:48:32 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 21:51:39 Forty-3 [~seana11@96.241.56.222] has joined #lisp 21:52:14 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:52:43 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:07 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 21:53:33 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:03 Joreji [~thomas@93-186.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:58:01 -!- RangeError is now known as elliottcable 21:59:14 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:01:06 -!- and`` [~and@cpc16-cmbg17-2-0-cust555.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:10 Ralt__ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 22:01:24 and`` [~and``@cpc16-cmbg17-2-0-cust555.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:05:08 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:06:14 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:06:29 -!- Ralt__ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:09:15 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:09:55 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-61-139.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 22:10:25 hello lisp hive-mind! Today, I'm interested in parallel computing in lisp (threads, no message passing) and was wondering if anyone has some good links/favorite libraries 22:10:44 minion: bordeaux-threads 22:10:45 bordeaux-threads: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/bordeaux-threads 22:11:57 Stupid minion! 22:12:04 is it? 22:12:20 minion: lparallel 22:12:20 lparallel: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/lparallel 22:12:40 sellout: how about the authors of the new cliki broke the old cliki API without providing a new one? 22:13:13 stassats: Indeed. I was just joking though  as long as minion still got the link, we're good. 22:14:35 gridaphobe [~user@128.54.49.236] has joined #lisp 22:15:19 of course i can make it parse the html, but i can't believe that it's that hard to make cliki spit out the source of an article 22:15:33 maybe that russian framework isn't that good 22:17:36 and i tried to look how to change that, but the code was incomprehensible 22:17:51 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:59 ok, I'd seen those on cliki and other places, have any of you actually used them for parallel computing problems? 22:19:10 stassats: 'russian framework' being restas, or something else? 22:19:11 I was hoping someone would sell me on one or the other 22:19:17 madnificent: right 22:19:30 fisxoj: they're vastly different 22:20:05 fisxoj: one is a way of managing threads, with which you can do parallel computing. the other is a solution for expressing parallel problems and calculating them on multiple threads. 22:20:28 "parallel computing problems" , are you running on a cluster? 22:20:41 fisxoj: H4ns and a couple other people have found lparallel very easy to use. 22:20:58 it's certainly something worth looking at 22:21:00 -!- _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 22:21:06 but so is bordeaux-threads 22:21:26 well, lparallel depends on bordeaux-threads 22:22:06 madnificent: lparallel is higher level 22:22:38 k0001 [~k0001@host13.190-224-60.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:22:45 alright, I'm going to see if lparallel can work for my problems, then 22:22:49 Yeah, as the author of b-t, I really think it's best to use something like lparallel most of the time. b-t is really just meant to bridge the implementation differences so that higher-level libs don't have to duplicate that. 22:22:53 I'd rather something manage the threads for me 22:23:41 crazy format makes me write ~:;~:*~A :) 22:24:00 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 22:24:01 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 22:24:06 isn't that just ~@[~a~]? 22:24:20 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:25 unless it's inside something else than [ 22:24:29 stassats: it's inside a ~[ as the last clause 22:25:15 and other clauses being? 22:25:28 fixed for 0 and 1 22:25:42 well, they do ~A too, but not the same ~A :) 22:25:46 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host234.190-229-162.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:25:59 it would be easier if you showed the whole thing 22:26:26 "~A has ~[NO ~A changes~;1 ~A change~:;~:*~A ~A changes~]" 22:27:37 sellout: i think knowing about b-t can help in cases where you want to use its locking mechanisms to sync. other libraries, like hunchentoot, create threads too. i don't think lparallel helps you there (but i may be wrong) 22:29:53 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:31:40 madnificent: how about "~a has ~[NO~:;~:*~a~] ~A change~2:*~p" then? 22:32:25 hmm, i could use ~p 22:33:05 not sure which string i prefer yet 22:33:13 the shorter, of course! 22:33:37 -!- zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:35:35 i don't like that it backs up twice and leaves an argument 'loose' 22:35:44 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-024-068.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:49 which means that if i extend it, i'll likely write a bug 22:36:03 hmm, or maybe format will be smart enough to tell me 22:36:24 why not test it beforehand? 22:37:57 "~a has ~[NO~:;~:*~a~] ~A change~2:*~p~*" is still shorter 22:38:48 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:38:59 i'm also trying to take into account whether or not i'll be able to read it later :) 22:39:23 ha, "~a has ~[N~]~:*~a ~A change~2:*~p~*" still shorter 22:40:41 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:40:43 since when are O and 0 the same? 22:40:57 they look similar enough 22:41:13 *madnificent* would be angry when he noticed it 22:41:19 but it's funny 22:41:25 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:41:46 haven't you heard? it's cool nowadays to replace parts of words with letters! 22:42:58 hardcore! 22:43:55 madnificent: and the code also consumes less memory, by being shorter, i remember you're short on RAM 22:44:11 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:14 oh sorry, |-|4R|>dC0R3! 22:45:03 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:46:03 stassats: you should get me at least one Gb of ram for every time you've used that not-so-funny remark 22:46:12 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:26 why should it be funny? lack of RAM is no fun! 22:46:43 correct 22:48:35 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@cgo79.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 22:50:04 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/x-cugegomkydqqnivd] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:52:28 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:13 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.32.82] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:57 bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:10 having less RAM means that I'm less likely to blame bad RAM for some bizarre problem of yours 23:05:45 Krystof: interestingly related: in a communication with Hetzner, they implied they didn't want to offer 32Gb unbuffered DDR3 RAM because they had too many errors with it. ~8 months ago. 23:07:20 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-024-068.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:07:24 non-ECC? 23:07:31 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:07:59 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 23:08:43 stassats: yes 23:10:37 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-024-068.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:57 -!- ircmouser [~guest@c-71-197-117-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:03 they don't offer ECC memory at all? 23:12:52 they offered it up to 16 Gb at the time IIRC. now up to 32 (and their current 64Gb doesn't mention ECC either, so i'd assume they found less problems with the current batches. either that, or it's an error.) 23:13:41 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-196-222-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:14:42 myx [~myx@pppoe-196-222-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 23:15:28 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:15:45 too bad one has to shell out for a Xeon to get ECC memory on the desktop 23:16:33 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:17:57 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:18:07 francogrex [~user@109.130.11.61] has joined #lisp 23:18:49 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 23:19:10 Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:36 pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:01 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:35 -!- bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:24:39 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-30-39.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:13 pjb [~user@92.103.75.130] has joined #lisp 23:25:37 -!- pjb is now known as Guest21593 23:26:28 francisl_ [~anonymous@199.84.162.167] has joined #lisp 23:27:08 -!- Guest21593 is now known as pjb` 23:27:34 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 23:28:20 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 23:28:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-186.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:28:51 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-215-192.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:29:08 bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:57 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-12-19.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:32:31 senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:17 -!- nowhere_man_ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-28-231.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:40 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f732ad9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:35:55 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-28-231.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:38:06 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:03 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host13.190-224-60.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:43:41 md5:md5-sequence depreciated the use of strings on an upgrade... breaking my logins 23:44:24 yrk: can you map it to a sequence of char-codes and does that work? i don't know what the previous implementation was 23:44:30 md5:md5-string seems to be the right way to do it now 23:44:37 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f732ad9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:15 I'm just slightly irked that a hashing function changes its output, raising an error would be a better way to make sure people know of the change 23:45:27 I guess I need to call the md5 author and ask for my money back 23:46:07 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 23:49:47 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 23:52:00 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.11.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:01 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 23:56:34 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f732ad9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:57:00 auganov [~user@77-254-179-15.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 23:58:02 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 23:58:03 -!- francisl_ is now known as francisl 23:59:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:59:50 francisl_ [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp