00:00:06 *maxm-* found that most helpful thing is cases like this, is to point people to C-c C-m in Slime, which expands the macro for you... Just type (yourmacro a b c) in repl, then place cursor on first parenthesis and press C-c C-m and you'll see 00:00:54 maxm-: i tried macroexpand-1 and it didn't give me anything fancy hence why i am here :) 00:01:56 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:03:02 nan_: just remember that macros is just a function, which takes source code and returns source code 00:03:17 so, there's nothing magical about backqoutes or anything 00:04:24 christoph_debian [~user@2001:a60:f01c:0:42::1] has joined #lisp 00:04:40 hm /me wonders whether cl-irc is inherently broken 00:05:05 (read-message-loop) blocks and seems to be intended to be run in a separate thread 00:05:15 but it doesn't do any locking on any of the network streams 00:05:18 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 00:05:18 stassats: maxm-: i understand now, thanks all 00:05:29 christoph_debian: it is a loop. 00:05:38 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f733f62.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:05:40 so I can't see how it would avoid a race condition there 00:06:02 like (read-message-loop) responding to a PING and another thread doing a PRIVMSG 00:06:21 christoph_debian: are you sure that's supported? 00:06:33 what? 00:06:43 using it ion a multithreaded environment? 00:06:43 it's supposed to be run in a separate thread, but a single thread 00:07:03 and how is it going to handle incoming messages? 00:07:03 ikki [~ikki@187.240.176.65] has joined #lisp 00:07:12 hooks 00:07:31 and if the PRIVMSG is triggered by something != irc I'm out of luck? 00:08:24 i can't understand that question 00:08:34 I can hook irc events 00:08:41 I can't hook non-irc events 00:09:00 what non-irc events? 00:09:04 so if some other code triggers an event and I'd like to forward this to irc 00:09:05 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f733f62.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:26 download finishes, mail arrives, whatever 00:09:43 how is it relevant to cl-irc? 00:09:44 like displaying commit notifications 00:10:05 say I have a bot that gets commit notifications from $vcs and should put them in irc 00:10:07 with a bit of digging you can write your own main loop 00:10:25 the (read-message-loop) is easy enough 00:10:29 but 00:10:38 read-message-loop is for reading messages, not sending 00:10:47 you would just write your message to the stream 00:11:06 and (read-message-loop) will write PONG replies to the stream 00:11:22 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:11:30 and there is no way to syncronize these pong replies with my message I write to the stream 00:12:02 and the non-loop variant of read-message-loop will still block untill it gets *any* irc event 00:12:03 add a hook for ping, use a lock there 00:12:32 minion and specbot are using a non-blocking read-loop 00:12:37 stassats: I'd also need to suppores the automatic PONG reply 00:12:50 I'd ove to see the code ;-) 00:13:12 christoph_debian: read-message-loop is simply (loop while (read-message)). Insert your own code in there. 00:13:37 he writes a bot, that posts external events to irc 00:13:37 and (read-message) blocks 00:13:42 or I can't read code 00:14:15 and if it wouldn't block it would be busy-spinning 00:14:29 you'll have to get into innards, to retreive socket fd, or maybe cl-irc already has one. then use some kind of select/poll wrapper lib. 00:14:55 just to post events and stuff, you don't need a non-blocking loop 00:15:00 I remember there were many libs that provide it, I would look into iolib first (summan fe[nl]ix ) 00:15:01 it has some accessors and sample code for sbcl 00:15:13 christoph_debian: it does. You can either use implementation-specific functionality to break out of there (and try to make sure it works correctly), or find where it blocks and edit the code. 00:15:36 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:16:00 there are two streams, input and output, you can write the output stream even when the input is blocked 00:16:02 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 00:16:05 using multiple threads 00:16:10 arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:16:37 right. I'll still have to make sure the reading doesn't interfere with a PONG response 00:16:50 but should be possible 00:16:54 you mean writing? 00:17:16 as i said earlier, add your own lock on writing 00:18:26 cl-irc uses usocket,which provides wait. It blocks in cl-irc::read-protocol-line 00:18:45 I'm starting to see how to plug this in jep 00:19:33 but these methods are generic 00:19:50 so what you may want to do, is make a subclass of irc-connection 00:20:31 then make your own read-protocol-line, which would multiplex what you need and use non-blocking reading collecting characters until it sees end of line 00:20:32 get it working first, you can worry about making it neat later. 00:20:55 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:21:04 you need to be prepared to handle unlikely case that PRIV is sent first, then there is 2 second delay, then MSG and rest of the line arrives (due to network delaysw0 00:23:02 stassats: right so replace all default hooks that might do writing with something that also does locking 00:23:16 on the write stream once it is writing 00:24:13 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:26 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.188.5] has quit [Quit: good night!] 00:26:27 francisl_ [~anonymous@199.84.162.167] has joined #lisp 00:27:04 -!- dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-axanszeghkvauavq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:27:25 -!- PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwzlyhnduuzvsjmc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:26 rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 00:27:33 dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rdpmwcvshxganlyj] has joined #lisp 00:27:49 is there a general way of checking whether or not an object is of a structured type (as per defstruct) 00:27:50 donno if its worth it.. IMHO much easier just have your own loop that does (loop (cond ((have-stuff-to-send) (send stuff)) ((usocket:wait-for-input (cl-irc-conn-socket conn)) (cl-irc:read-message conn)) (t (sleep 0.1)))) 00:28:02 single thread, no problems 00:28:03 PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mpjzhdyozylaaycg] has joined #lisp 00:28:04 -!- pjb [~t@voyager.informatimago.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:12 pjb [~t@voyager.informatimago.com] has joined #lisp 00:28:35 -!- pjb is now known as Guest71210 00:28:39 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:19 clhs structure-object 00:29:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_stu_ob.htm 00:29:41 not for lists or vectors, naturally 00:29:42 stassats: thanks! i *just* found it by clicking through the dictionary a bit. 00:30:20 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-196-222-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:30:34 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:30:59 maxm-: not specifying a timeout for wait-for-input is not a good idea 00:31:50 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:58 -!- francisl_ [~anonymous@199.84.162.167] has quit [Quit: francisl_] 00:33:45 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: good night/dobranoc] 00:35:43 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:36:53 biscarch [~chris@ip-64-134-238-131.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:15 stassats: it was meant as pointer to farther exploration, not complete example, yes probably better to specify timeout if as part of wait-for-input, and get rid of sleep then, since timeout would act as sleep anyway 00:41:28 looks like best source is clhs, sometimes because it is too short i am trying to find other resources but yeh it is substance not length, right? 00:42:40 -!- agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:43:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-124.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:43:19 well, it's the standard, so you won't find anything better 00:44:56 -!- xpoqz [~xpoqz@80.203.124.203] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:45:54 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:03 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 00:50:25 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 00:52:22 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.96.158] has joined #lisp 00:54:51 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:57:35 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 00:58:50 i need to get rid of this sickness, whenever i got a question i go google rather than clhs, then i get lost in tons of unrelated sometimes casual nonsense, have you been there? how did you recover? or wait i know! (dotimes (i 100) (format t "~a. (or clhs google)" i)) 01:00:01 how about CLHS first, Google second 01:00:30 how about just clhs, no google? 01:00:33 dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-16-41.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:43 how about memorize clhs and lookup nothing? 01:01:22 i downloaded hyperspec and using it offline, i can just unplug net! but then again i couldn't bug you guys with my mostly lame questions :P 01:01:53 In fact i donot like CLHS's format which makes my eye incomfortable :) 01:03:46 sw2wolf: thank you for sharing 01:04:25 welcome 01:04:59 dnolen_ [~user@pool-96-224-16-41.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:26 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-16-41.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:05:48 -!- dnolen_ [~user@pool-96-224-16-41.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:44 dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-16-41.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:08 -!- SHUPFS 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[~royzilla@27.124.28.99] has joined #lisp 03:05:07 What's the difference between :initarg and :initform in defclass's slots ? 03:05:11 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 03:07:26 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.90.1] 03:11:29 -!- royzilla [~royzilla@27.124.28.99] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:11:37 royzilla [~royzilla@27.124.28.99] has joined #lisp 03:13:08 sw2wolf: :initform is used to define a default value for the slot; :initarg specifies the name of the argument for initializing that slot in a make-instance 03:14:09 so if the slot's initarg is included in a given make-instance call, the initform will not be used 03:14:36 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:15:33 -!- SunMoonStar [~maks@ool-457f5814.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:16:21 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.99.203] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:17:37 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 03:21:30 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-16-41.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:22:03 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 03:22:23 thx 03:22:59 -!- royzilla [~royzilla@27.124.28.99] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:24:37 myx [~myx@pppoe-196-222-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 03:25:03 -!- francisl_ [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-2925066520.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl_] 03:26:27 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.176.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:33:41 -!- _tca [~user@h151.25.91.207.static.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:35:58 francisl_ [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-2925066520.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:41:57 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 03:49:45 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 03:52:46 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:26 teggi [~teggi@113.172.62.138] has joined #lisp 04:04:57 -!- francisl_ [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-2925066520.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl_] 04:07:15 francisl_ [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-2925066520.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:08:20 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:09:08 samrat [~samrat@49.244.151.188] has joined #lisp 04:10:37 Haflex [~Haflex@218.248.46.85] has joined #lisp 04:10:58 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:11:13 am i missing something or is there no easy way to convert number to string? 04:12:02 rullie: write-to-string 04:13:23 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:13:23 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:54 -!- Haflex [~Haflex@218.248.46.85] has left #lisp 04:13:54 rullie: perhaps you are looking for parse-integer 04:13:57 Bike: i've been using format... is that' not great? 04:14:05 er, format 04:14:30 rullie: it'll do pretty much the same thing 04:14:34 benny [~user@i577A8673.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:14:43 k, thanks 04:15:07 (i was hoping there was a itoa or something) 04:15:08 format is good if you want stuff like leading zeros or commas or some more characters along with the number 04:15:56 rullie: (write-to-string num :base whatever), or (format nil "~vr" whatever num) if you want 04:16:24 thanks sir 04:16:54 unless there's a functional difference between writing a number to a string and converting a number to a string that I am unaware of 04:18:03 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-97-39.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:21:23 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:23:37 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 04:24:49 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Client Quit] 04:25:03 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:16 SunMoonStar [~maks@ool-457f5814.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:02 Bike: if you want to go that way, clearly *THIS* is how you convert a number to a string: (string (code-char 50)) 04:29:36 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-241-14.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:52 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31:02 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 04:32:11 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-241-14.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:28 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 04:34:09 peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 04:34:39 k0001 [~k0001@host227.186-125-114.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:35:33 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:38:34 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:46:52 segv- [~mb@dslb-188-102-169-157.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 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answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 06:54:19 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.123.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:55:01 segv- [~mb@dslb-188-102-169-157.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:52 -!- mrsolo [~mrsolo@adsl-68-126-182-144.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:57:27 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:57:35 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 07:02:47 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 07:03:31 Myk267 [~myk@71.149.244.231] has joined #lisp 07:05:51 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-167-94.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:07:37 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:17 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-3.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:39 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:10:09 How do I define a method only if swank is present? e.g. (defmethod swank::menu-choices-for-presentation ((ob foo)) ...) 07:10:47 k0001 [~k0001@host12.190-229-208.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 07:11:13 #+swank 07:11:35 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:13:41 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host33.181-1-167.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:14:20 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.68] has joined #lisp 07:15:31 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.32.82] has joined #lisp 07:16:27 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:16:28 I tried that, but it does not work if I (ql:quickload "my-system") later when I start sbcl manually without swank. 07:19:53 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-42-153.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:23 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:20:39 -!- samrat [~samrat@49.244.151.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:26:11 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d013a89.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:33 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[~user@223.85.1.100] has left #lisp 08:32:47 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.90.1] 08:33:24 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 08:35:49 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-3.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:56 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:37:44 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: tiredd] 08:39:32 hello 08:40:15 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-167-94.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:40:40 niels2 [~niels@p4FD6F514.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:42 ehu [~ehu@31.136.164.94] has joined #lisp 08:41:10 -!- zerwas [~zerwas@unaffiliated/zerwas] has left #lisp 08:42:48 -!- niels1 [~niels@p4FD6DD81.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:45:14 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-96-198.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:46:23 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:50:32 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: immediate death] 08:51:47 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.20.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:55:52 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 08:55:59 shwouchk [~shwouchk@bzq-82-81-207-41.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:59 -!- shwouchk [~shwouchk@bzq-82-81-207-41.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:55:59 shwouchk [~shwouchk@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has joined #lisp 09:05:33 -!- benny [~user@i577A8673.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:07:32 -!- H4ns changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Postmodern 1.19, Yason 0.6.2, SBCL 1.1.1, Hunchentoot 1.2.7 09:07:56 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:09:43 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:10:23 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 09:14:38 shwouchk_ [~kosta@bzq-82-81-207-41.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:06 kosta [~kosta@bzq-82-81-207-41.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:41 -!- kosta [~kosta@bzq-82-81-207-41.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:17:46 -!- shwouchk [~shwouchk@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:17:48 -!- shwouchk_ [~kosta@bzq-82-81-207-41.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:18:21 shwouchk [~kosta@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has joined #lisp 09:19:14 shwouchk_ [~kosta@bzq-82-81-207-41.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:14 -!- shwouchk_ [~kosta@bzq-82-81-207-41.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:20:48 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.96.158] has left #lisp 09:21:57 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:22:29 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:37 _veer [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:37 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:23:37 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 09:24:26 shwouchk_ [~kosta@bzq-82-81-207-41.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:49 -!- shwouchk_ [~kosta@bzq-82-81-207-41.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:25:10 shwouchk_ [~kosta@bzq-82-81-207-41.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:23 QuickSilver_ [~ait@607host2.starwoodbroadband.com] has joined #lisp 09:25:33 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:25:46 hello 09:26:53 I installed quicklisp andmade it load automatically in sbcl. In slime however, it doesn't load automatically. Why? 09:28:02 and it also seems that a couple of systems I installed are not found either 09:28:04 how did you make it load automatically in sbcl? 09:28:05 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:28:27 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 09:28:27 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 09:28:27 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 09:28:30 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 09:28:32 H4ns, after you install it, there is an option to make it load automatically - it adds a couple of lines to .sbclrc 09:29:17 although, now that I look at it, I see the file as empty 09:29:20 weird 09:30:08 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:30:47 H4ns, and now even if I load the setup file again, nothing happens 09:30:51 it didn't work for me either, I had to manually copy-paste what it claimed to be appending to the file 09:31:49 if you can, please reproduce the problem and report the issue 09:32:13 H4ns, I think I know what the problem it 09:32:18 shwouchk_: what is it? 09:32:58 I had a kernel panic recently, and I looked now also at quicklisp.lisp and the file is blank... 09:33:10 the kernel panic probably killed the files 09:33:27 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-3.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:27 -!- mrsolo [~mrsolo@adsl-68-126-182-144.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:33:30 \o/ 09:34:00 :) 09:34:17 _veer [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:17 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:34:17 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 09:35:27 add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-27-152.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:35:57 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-3.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:36:04 Is there a way to make the HDD write down all the cached files after a kernel panic? 09:36:20 -!- Guest71210 is now known as pjb-v 09:37:05 shwouchk_: isn't that kind of a self-contradicting question? 09:37:59 shwouchk_: it may help if you use a journaling file system (ext3 or ext4). Use the option -j with mke2fs or tune2fs. 09:38:01 jdz, I don't think so. Files are already in the HDD cache, just not written 09:38:15 pjb-v, I do 09:38:24 I think 09:38:30 shwouchk_: in a kernel panic, the cache can be damaged. 09:38:40 pjb-v, makes sense 09:39:36 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:43 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41:27 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:42:16 am0c_ [~am0c@211.246.78.81] has joined #lisp 09:42:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-127-91.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 09:42:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-127-91.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 09:42:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:43:22 -!- am0c_ is now known as am0c 09:43:40 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-yjpuudkfskhxdhnx] has joined #lisp 09:44:34 shwouchk_: it is best to avoid kernel panics in the first place. 09:45:00 shwouchk_: if you have an unstable kernel, there is not much that can be done to help you with the resulting data integrity issues. 09:45:07 H4ns, next time I decide to make the kernel panic, I'll remember that :) 09:45:23 shwouchk_: you could chose a kernel that does not panic. 09:45:39 you never know if it will until it does, do you? 09:45:53 kernel panic, let me think for a bit... i had one in the last few years, because of a failing ssd 09:46:00 H4ns, its the default ubuntu kernel, I expected it not to panic, hope it on't again 09:46:20 shwouchk_: why did it panic? do you have exotic or faulty hardware maybe? 09:46:46 don't think it's exotic, hope its not faulty as it is fairly new 09:46:54 shwouchk_: once the kernel has paniced there's no active process listening any more, I don't know how you would ask for a cache flush on disk... Magic sysrqs are talking to the kernel, for example, and it's not available 09:47:13 (OpenBSD is stable and nice) 09:47:14 a write back cache in the disk will be flushed automatically 09:47:15 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-3.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:47:35 yeah, at next reboot 09:47:56 my understanding of the question is how to force that while the kernel lies down in that panic state 09:48:05 Duplicate key QUOTE in CASE form, occurring in the first clause: <-- what does this mean exactly? 09:48:18 shwouchk_: uptime -> 10:48:15 up 786 days, 5:44, 5 users, load average: 0.04, 0.23, 0.17 09:48:19 09:48:29 shwouchk_: Linux voyager.informatimago.com 2.6.18-6-k7 #1 SMP Mon Oct 13 16:52:47 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux 09:48:29 09:48:35 dim, I thought as much (about magic). 09:48:37 2.6.18 is a good kernel. 09:48:56 pjb-v, such uptime is not realistic for a laptop 09:49:06 shwouchk_: why? 09:49:16 -!- agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:49:20 sometimes the battery runs out 09:49:34 shwouchk_: on laptops you can sleep and keep good "uptimes" too :-) 09:49:34 hybernate 09:49:48 or is it hibernate 09:49:58 i 09:50:04 don't like that 09:50:10 I either sleep or off 09:50:14 in any case, it is not something that can be blamed on quicklisp 09:50:28 shwouchk_: that's your own preference then, nothing to do with "not realistic" 09:50:31 lide: how about you, did you have kernel panic as well when you used ql:add-to-init-file? 09:50:56 H4ns, of course not 09:51:02 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:31 Duplicate key QUOTE in CASE form, occurring in the first clause: <-- what does this mean exactly? 09:51:47 shwouchk_: you do not need to quote symbols in case clauses 09:52:08 shwouchk_: (case x (foo "bar")), not (case x ('foo "bar")) 09:52:29 shwouchk_: 'foo is short for (quote foo) 09:52:35 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0021b1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:09 H4ns, thanks 09:53:29 xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:54:43 alright, I'm off 09:54:44 bye 09:55:43 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-3.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:04 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:56:44 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 09:59:58 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.251.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:02:31 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-yjpuudkfskhxdhnx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04:16 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-fwdedumaybusvpry] has joined #lisp 10:05:47 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@220.Red-79-148-146.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06:35 abeaumont [~abeaumont@220.Red-79-148-146.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:46 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 10:08:53 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping 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11:33:03 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:34:18 Kvaks_ [~kvaks@62.16.128.193] has joined #lisp 11:34:59 samrat [~samrat@49.244.68.114] has joined #lisp 11:36:39 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@112.158.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:36:51 sw2wolf [~sw2wolf@110.188.69.121] has joined #lisp 11:39:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-200.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:45:53 mattc [~user@CPE-120-149-144-5.lflg2.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:48:32 danlentz [~danlentz@c-71-58-50-195.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:48 mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 11:54:27 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 11:56:18 mutha [~mutha@212.91.105.147] has joined #lisp 11:56:26 I know this is asking a lot but is there anyone who can say a few introductory words about working with the hu.dwim.metamodel (ie entity/association/relationship/property classes?) 11:56:45 danlentz: isn't it obvious from the source and tests? 11:58:02 well obvious might be in the eye of the beholder ... :) 11:58:18 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-fwdedumaybusvpry] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:58:22 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:58:36 danlentz: it is just me, but "hu.dwim" is a prefix that i read as "avoid" 11:58:37 :D 11:59:39 (precisely because every thing in hu.dwim is undocumented, because "everything is obvious from the source and the tests") 12:00:02 momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573a78.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:00:45 Perec just looks so cool -- but having gotten the basics down it seems that there is this whole upper layer based on an entity / property model 12:01:16 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-3.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:01:37 there is just so much to absorb I thought if someone had a few words of general overview it might make this task much easier 12:04:22 -!- QuickSilver_ [~ait@607host2.starwoodbroadband.com] has quit [Quit: QuickSilver_] 12:04:32 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-3.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:48 _veer [~veer@173.65.234.164] has joined #lisp 12:04:48 -!- _veer [~veer@173.65.234.164] has quit [Changing host] 12:04:48 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:05:02 hu.dwim has got to hold some kind of record for most complex CL software ever open sourced 12:08:50 milanj [~milanj_@37.19.107.138] has joined #lisp 12:09:01 danlentz: or CL code escaped from ERP project 12:09:10 BTW isnt there #dwim.hu ? 12:09:27 perec is rather easy to read, but the problem is the def macro 12:09:38 no there isnt sorry 12:09:43 the crazier stuff is their quasiquote and such 12:09:50 I don't see #dwim.hu I looked 12:11:00 They've done so much work it's tragic there isn't a tiny bit of introductory material 12:11:40 danlentz: for perec, there's a tutorial floating on the net which gets you through the hardest part if you have some persistence in you 12:11:46 (and yeah, I know that sentence was punny) 12:12:00 the pinterface blog series is excellent 12:12:13 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:12:22 I think that's what you're referring to 12:12:31 I have some local patch I used to load based on pinterface blog 12:12:43 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 12:13:07 dRbiG [drbig@178.217.184.41] has joined #lisp 12:13:51 but the hu.dwim.meta-model builds a whole layer of abstraction on top of perec that im trying to comprehend 12:14:11 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:14:19 guestor [~user@183.220.149.179] has joined #lisp 12:14:23 ouch 12:14:30 I'm suddenly reminded of the project at work 12:14:35 entities and binary-relations and generalizations and properties and relations 12:14:39 haven't yet seen meta-model 12:15:03 Hello,everyone! 12:16:21 danlentz: ... Jesus Maria 12:16:27 kofno [~kofno@24.165.213.150] has joined #lisp 12:16:34 it really is compelling in its potential but even finding reasonably simple tests or examples is not easy 12:16:36 *p_l* looked into hu.dwim.meta-model then seen reference to hu.dwim.presentation 12:16:42 y 12:16:47 it's a bitch 12:17:04 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-3.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:17:14 -!- momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573a78.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:26 doesn't work on Darwin but I hacked it enough to get model and metamodel online 12:18:30 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:18:57 at this point I don't think hu.dwim.presentation is even remotely feasible 12:19:16 for the home user 12:19:53 dude, it gave me flashbacks to my ~/work directory 12:20:35 and its contents full of code that in production involves 3 layers of languages/interpreters 12:21:05 whose only documentation is ungoogleable and has scary statements on front page 12:21:17 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 12:21:32 heh that seems analogous... 12:22:16 as long as the 3 docstrings actually present are in Hungarian 12:22:21 -!- sw2wolf [~sw2wolf@110.188.69.121] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:22:29 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.240.206] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 12:23:07 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-mhqddwnydnonsjjq] has joined #lisp 12:24:06 no, but we have PL/SQL layer we can't edit due to license, which supports java framework which is pretty much programmed in XML 12:24:24 and provides Web interface with bits of ajax from time to time 12:25:07 What project/company? (if you can say, that is) 12:25:28 an ERP-like stuff for Air Force 12:26:18 (polish air force 12:26:19 ) 12:26:22 Why is car and cdr used instead of first and rest? They seem to mean exactly the same. 12:26:36 Instead of bombing terrorists lets sit them down in front of hu.dwim.metamodel 12:27:24 or would that violate the Geneva conventions... :) 12:27:27 engblom: it's a kind of self documenting thing: if the programmer is working with conses, CAR and CDR are used; if with lists, then FIRST and LAST 12:27:41 FIRST and REST i mean 12:27:44 and SECOND, and THIRD 12:27:50 engblom: historical reasons, composability (cadr is pretty common combo), and iirc car/cdr work only on conses (which also form lists) 12:28:41 p_l: that's a bit confusing statement... what does FIRST and REST work that CAR and CDR does not work on? 12:29:59 Thanks. 12:30:27 -!- jaaso_ [~jaaso_@effic.me] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:30:29 -!- paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30:41 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:31:05 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 12:31:09 -!- guestor [~user@183.220.149.179] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:31:37 jdz: I don't remember if I didn't once seen first work on something other than list... but it might be wrong recall 12:31:51 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 12:32:18 jaaso_ [~jaaso_@effic.me] has joined #lisp 12:34:19 bitonic [~user@dyn1202-179.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:34:36 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-164-252.w109-222.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:35:38 benny [~user@i577A3EA6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:35:47 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:37:09 guestor [~user@183.220.149.179] has joined #lisp 12:37:10 ist 12:38:17 Is there a function similar to MEMBER that checks for EQUAL instead of EQL? 12:38:31 -!- guestor [~user@183.220.149.179] has quit [Client Quit] 12:39:22 you can specify the test-function for many functions 12:39:27 :test? 12:39:47 Ah, yes. I read somewhere about it, but had forgotten. 12:40:57 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 12:41:23 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:42:19 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 12:44:43 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:45:11 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:44 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:48:44 Cymew [~user@80.169.182.163] has joined #lisp 12:49:45 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:52:03 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.180.200] has joined #lisp 12:52:05 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: go home] 12:52:54 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:53:22 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:25 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-188-102-169-157.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 12:56:00 lizzin [~lizzin@unaffiliated/lizzin] has joined #lisp 12:56:21 (or (oddp 4) (setf *iseven* t)) 12:56:24 how does that work? 12:56:37 -!- jaaso_ [~jaaso_@effic.me] has quit [Quit: ma zdravo] 12:56:52 (oddp 4) should return nil. so why is *iseven* set? 12:57:29 lizzin: OR evaluates the second test if the first is false. 12:57:57 that should be (when (oddp 4) (setf *iseven* t)) 12:58:23 or, well :) 12:58:32 that doesn't make any sense semantically 12:58:35 engblom: what is the second test here? the (setf) form? 12:58:41 Yes. 12:59:08 when will a setf ever not be true? 12:59:51 hrmm, maybe when you set it too nil? 13:00:22 http://www.wtf.tw/etc/land_of_lisp_notes.txt 13:00:33 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:00:37 -!- Ralt [~Ralt@eup38-1-82-247-184-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:01:18 i am reading through that. the 'or' expression i initially asked about seems like an odd thing to mention 13:02:10 what did you think or would do? 13:04:11 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:47 i was a little unsure of what was going on the first time i read this section in the book. but it makes perfect sense now 13:05:58 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 13:06:24 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 13:07:43 jaaso_ [~jaaso_@176.9.99.204] has joined #lisp 13:08:50 -!- jaaso_ [~jaaso_@176.9.99.204] has quit [Client Quit] 13:13:37 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 13:13:54 -!- mattc [~user@CPE-120-149-144-5.lflg2.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:14:46 Ralt [~Ralt@eup38-1-82-247-184-72.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:11 jaaso_ [~jaaso_@176.9.99.204] has joined #lisp 13:23:50 -!- jaaso_ [~jaaso_@176.9.99.204] has quit [Quit: ma zdravo] 13:24:39 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 13:25:26 part 13:25:27 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 13:26:46 jaaso_ [~jaaso_@176.9.99.204] has joined #lisp 13:28:59 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:34:11 ferada [~ferada@dslb-178-004-009-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:43 -!- drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:40:05 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 13:42:45 -!- Okasu [~okasu@unaffiliated/okasu] has left #lisp 13:43:41 -!- mutha [~mutha@212.91.105.147] has quit [Quit: mutha] 13:45:58 -!- am0c [~am0c@211.246.78.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:46:14 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-mhqddwnydnonsjjq] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:47:30 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195.160.233.181] has joined #lisp 13:49:24 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.240.236] has joined #lisp 13:54:40 -!- Kvaks_ is now known as Kvaks 13:57:09 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-164-252.w109-222.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:25 ncw [~ncw@86.173.88.134] has joined #lisp 14:01:24 -!- Ralt [~Ralt@eup38-1-82-247-184-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:02:23 kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-4d028b9e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:18 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:28 -!- kmels [~kmels@95.115.63.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:05:23 -!- milanj [~milanj_@37.19.107.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:07:02 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 14:09:30 In LW, given a reference to an unprintable object (such as #), can I find the object in order to have a look at it? 14:10:26 chr: you have a "reference" to the object, or just the printed representation? 14:11:00 Just the printed representation, from a log file. 14:11:26 chr: then no 14:12:06 chr: the application should be modified to provide some meaningful information when printing the object 14:12:21 s/meaningful/identifying 14:12:50 jdz: Good point. 14:13:19 Ralt [~Ralt@eup38-1-82-247-184-72.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:40 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-4d028b9e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:17:53 stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.27.19] has joined #lisp 14:20:11 kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-4d028b9e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:11 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:22:38 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:23:20 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-qhxtqjnhvvguhiwt] has joined #lisp 14:25:17 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 14:26:16 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:35 Joreji [~thomas@82-054.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:29:00 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:21 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 14:29:46 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 14:30:10 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 14:30:29 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:34:06 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:35:50 [SLB]` [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 14:36:08 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 14:37:40 -!- blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:53 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:44:41 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:45:41 milanj [~milanj_@82.117.199.26] has joined #lisp 14:46:44 daniel3 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 14:47:05 -!- daniel3 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 14:47:33 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 14:49:32 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 14:50:58 I have a function that calls sample-with-replacement like a million times. (http://paste.lisp.org/display/133945). So I need to super-optimize the sample function posted to the maximum (it is currently not) for speed. Can you suggest improvement based on your expertise? 14:51:26 -!- ncw [~ncw@86.173.88.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:45 drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has joined #lisp 14:52:44 francogrex: use something other than a list for representing your populations. 14:52:44 francogrex: yes, don't use lists there 14:52:52 heh 14:53:02 -!- milanj [~milanj_@82.117.199.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:53:19 don't use a list to represent your result, either 14:53:38 sample 100000 random numbers between 0 and the number of elements of your population 14:53:39 francogrex: "something other than a list" would be "a vector" as the first step 14:53:54 your result should be a vector of the size of your population containing the counts 14:54:04 presto: no more consing a million-element anything 14:55:05 (if your population of events is larger than about a million, then we can talk about sparser representations) 14:56:13 [ how long have you been programming in CL, anyway? Or even hanging out here? ] 14:56:15 ok so avoid lists and move to vectors... 14:56:33 2 years maybe 14:56:42 hanging out there 14:57:56 it's not about avoiding lists 14:57:59 lists are great 14:58:09 it's about choosing the right data structure 14:58:31 if you need random access (twice!), then don't use lists 14:59:16 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 14:59:23 you could probably speed up your code by calling random-element on the result of (coerce population 'vector) 14:59:32 yes I meant df---for this specific task 14:59:53 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:00:26 issue is I'll have to modify the other functions that use sample-with-replacement, but I'll work around that 15:00:38 no, you don't 15:00:45 those that feed the data and receive its results.... 15:00:57 jdz: I can avoid that 15:01:15 by adding a step of coercing the vector results back into lists 15:01:42 francogrex: check the annotation 15:01:55 ok thanks 15:02:55 francogrex: of course, you have to change NTH to ELT, too 15:03:10 myx [~myx@pppoe-196-222-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 15:06:14 With GETHASH, is it possible to use EQUAL instead of EQL? 15:06:34 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 15:06:35 engblom: yes, pass the function to MAKE-HASH-TABLE 15:07:00 clhs make-hash-table 15:07:00 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_has.htm 15:07:30 jdz: Ah, okay! 15:07:50 Thanks! 15:08:11 yeah 15:10:27 rjmt__ [~uid1@46-65-28-90.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:12:48 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:13:04 I am new to CLOS... and from the first impression I can not see any benefit with it over normal structs: The methods are separated from the class. 15:13:07 -!- niels2 [~niels@p4FD6F514.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:13:13 What is the benefit of CLOS? 15:13:50 engblom: do you use generic functions? 15:14:01 engblom: you can redefine classes on the fly. clos offers metaprogramming and introspection. 15:14:58 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 15:15:03 jdz: I am looking at cooper.book.pdf that somebody linked too once in this channel. They just mention very briefly CLOS. 15:15:05 engblom: Check the papers on CLOS at RPG's site. They tell you what went in it, and should prove enlightening. 15:15:19 Thanks 15:16:40 jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 15:17:02 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.20.77] has joined #lisp 15:18:24 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 15:19:34 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-4d028b9e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:20:54 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:02 -!- samrat [~samrat@49.244.68.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:25:05 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:25:15 user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:08 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:49 melqart [~melqart@rrcs-24-103-234-74.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:18 jjkola_work_ [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:47 -!- user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:32:00 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:32:00 -!- jjkola_work_ is now known as jjkola_work 15:33:08 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:38 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.195] has joined #lisp 15:36:52 -!- dodo_ [~dodo@216.24.198.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:37:12 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:14 samrat [~samrat@49.244.10.113] has joined #lisp 15:41:06 ehu [~ehu@109.35.122.95] has joined #lisp 15:42:07 -!- ehu` [~ehu@109.35.122.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:42:13 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:42:38 -!- Cymew [~user@80.169.182.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:42:49 jjkola_work_ [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 15:43:11 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1202-179.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:47 ikki [~ikki@189.247.88.101] has joined #lisp 15:43:53 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 15:44:26 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 15:45:21 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Client Quit] 15:45:32 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:40 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:45:40 -!- jjkola_work_ is now known as jjkola_work 15:49:09 dodo_ [~dodo@61.173.119.251] has joined #lisp 15:49:15 cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.190.31] has joined #lisp 15:50:44 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:51:59 jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has joined #lisp 15:52:24 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 15:53:22 stlifey_ [~stlifey@59.35.103.78] has joined #lisp 15:54:25 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.88.101] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:58 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.27.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:56:37 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:58:34 bitonic [~user@dyn1219-39.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:59:23 Just found an email in my spam trap from a Chinese registra asking about someone in Kenya looking to register "cliki.com.cn", "cliki.cn", and "cliki.asia" names. 15:59:35 -!- stlifey_ [~stlifey@59.35.103.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:00:39 *very* targeted spam, as to my knowledge I have not used that particular email address in conjuction with DNS ever. 16:03:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:52 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:09:03 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:55 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:18:06 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:19:15 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1219-39.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:21:15 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 16:22:35 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:24:11 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:24:39 Is lisp having something similar to [1..1000] in haskell? (A fast way to get a list with all numbers between two integers? 16:25:54 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:26:21 engblom: alexandria:iota 16:26:26 Nothing in the standard library 16:26:43 naryl: Thanks. Then I will solve it with LOOP instead. 16:26:45 Except (loop for i from 1 to 1000 collect i) :) 16:28:51 ncw [~ncw@host86-173-88-134.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:28:56 com.gigamonkeys.binary-data sets *in-progress-objects* via an :around method - this is a problem, because I my own :around method is more specialized, and so the "outer" object is not yet in the *in-progress-list*. any ideas? 16:29:07 engblom: i wrote cl-simple-sequence (which isn't quite made for really using, but it does work) for a question in the likes of that (apparently 4 years ago) 16:30:24 I begun solving project euler problems, in order to learn lisp... so in this situation I try to use just what is in standard CL. 16:30:40 engblom: what kind of numbers? what is the interval between two consecutives numbers in your sequence? what is your round-off error?... 16:31:01 hmm, perhaps I can get that done in read-object instead. 16:32:06 arg, no. strange loops in my head. 16:32:28 pnpuff: http://projecteuler.net/problems I begun with the first problem... In haskell I would solve it with a simple list comprehension. It would be a one liner. I am still thinking in Haskell way... 16:32:58 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:33:08 -!- xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 16:33:34 jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:45 insomniaSalt [~user@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 16:35:56 flip214: maybe you can define a primary method instead of an around method? 16:36:31 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.35.122.95] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:38 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:16 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-12.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:24 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-12.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:38:24 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 16:41:03 engblom: So implement list comprehensions :) 16:41:28 Or you can use REDUCE and REMOVE-IF. 16:42:30 engblom: you don't need to first make a list and then iterate over it; just use LOOP 16:42:33 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195.160.233.181] has left #lisp 16:42:45 jdz: no easily, that is a define-tagged-binary-class - which gets the primary method automatically done ... 16:43:32 Problem 2 is a simple LOOP btw. 16:44:04 as far as i know none of those problems invole looping 16:44:23 well, bruteforce approach works always, but that's not the point 16:44:34 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:46:53 stlifey [~stlifey@59.35.103.164] has joined #lisp 16:48:11 jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:48:35 well, problem 11 looks silly to do with paper-and-pencil method 16:48:37 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48:45 lduros` [~user@2607:f470:24:3:306d:e9be:d518:1f5] has joined #lisp 16:51:37 jdz: thanks, solved. my problem, as usual. 16:52:36 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:53:52 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:53:53 why do you need REMOVE-IF if you're using REDUCE? 16:55:52 > Find the sum of all the multiples of 3 or 5 below 1000. 16:56:09 Yes, actually you don't need either loop, reduce or remove-if. 16:56:15 yeah, so why do you need remove-if? 16:56:20 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 16:56:28 I mean you need only + and *. 16:56:53 it's either REDUCE+IOTA or LOOP+:if+:sum 16:57:20 as a rule, try to not apply more than a few arguments to functions that do &rest. 16:57:57 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 17:00:28 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:00:37 easye: I recently had an exchange from China telling me they wanted to register informatimago.com.cn, and whether I wanted to register it before they do. I have no problem with homonym sibblings and so I told them. One month later, informatimago.com.cn is still not registered 17:02:30 that's a clever sales strategy for registrars... 17:03:25 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:03:28 engblom: CL is not lazy. You can define iterators as closures: (defun range (min max) (lambda () (if (< min max) (values (prog1 min (incf min)) t) nil))) (loop with r = (range 1 10000) repeat 10 do (multiple-value-bind (e got-it) (unless got-it (loop-finish)) (print e))) 17:03:50 jcazeved_ [~jcazevedo@bl23-18-80.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 17:04:08 -!- jcazeved_ is now known as jcazevedo 17:06:03 engblom: s/got-it)/got-it) (funcall r)/ 17:06:08 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-30-39.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:12 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 17:10:05 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 17:14:35 Can anyone help me to understand what is going wrong in this: http://hpaste.org/78413 17:15:22 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:15:33 engblom: you're never storing the result of the addition anywhere 17:15:35 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 17:15:46 (loop for i from 1 upto 1001 if (or (= ...) (= ...)) sum x) 17:16:09 H4ns: Ah, of course. That is the problem 17:16:12 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:16:29 engblom: (incf sum x) will work, btw :) 17:17:17 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 17:18:53 Thanks! Now I have it working! 17:20:59 This is my working solution: http://hpaste.org/78414 17:21:06 What could be done better? 17:21:07 daniel1 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 17:21:27 -!- daniel1 is now known as daniemg 17:21:33 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-178-004-009-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:21:45 *sykopomp* wonders when PCL: Quicklisp Edition will come out. 17:21:54 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 17:21:56 engblom: see my loop above. 17:21:59 -!- daniemg [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 17:22:16 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 17:22:23 you don't need the sum variable. Loop has summing built in. 17:22:36 engblom: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/loop-for-black-belts.html#value-accumulation 17:22:48 there's also (zerop x) 17:22:51 Only this section is relevant to your current problem. 17:23:30 Ah, thanks! 17:24:54 engblom: But you'll also have to replace WHEN with LOOP's WHEN clause. 17:25:00 (one pair of parens less :]) 17:25:01 Hey, that link was really useful naryl! 17:26:38 then you could start having fun with, say, (reduce (lambda (old new) (if (or (zerop ...) ...) (+ old new) old)) (iota ...) :initial-value 0) or something like that. 17:26:44 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:29:35 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:36 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-71-58-50-195.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:31:20 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 17:32:05 Okay, here is my improved version: http://hpaste.org/78416 17:34:42 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.19.237] has joined #lisp 17:37:20 lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 17:37:49 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:38:32 that looks good, beyond any clever math trickery I don't know about. 17:41:13 jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:27 Thanks! 17:42:20 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:43:10 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 17:43:14 Greetings lispers 17:43:51 jjkola_work_ [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 17:43:53 ahoy 17:46:40 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:46:40 -!- jjkola_work_ is now known as jjkola_work 17:48:08 -!- ncw [~ncw@host86-173-88-134.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:50 daniel1 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 17:50:56 -!- daniel1 is now known as daniel2 17:52:42 -!- daniel2 is now known as zldanielmglz 17:53:04 engblom: http://paste.lisp.org/display/133948 17:53:17 Sum arithmetic series for 3 and 5 then subtract for 15. 17:55:11 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-039-183.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:01 agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:22 ASau [~user@46.115.34.129] has joined #lisp 17:56:26 that's pretty cool 17:56:29 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:56:40 jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 17:57:28 Hey! paste.lisp.org is really cool too, as it is showing documentation by clicking on stuff. 17:57:43 naryl: shouldn't it be (euler-1 999)? 17:57:56 it's sum all the numbers -below- 1000. 17:57:59 yes :) 17:58:19 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 17:58:53 -!- amado [~amado@209.99.3.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:59:17 sellout [~Adium@23.31.73.66] has joined #lisp 18:00:17 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 18:00:47 engblom: Also you can multiply by rational numbers if you're short on parens :) 18:00:50 http://paste.lisp.org/display/133948#1 18:03:15 -!- _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:06:47 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 18:07:56 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:08:18 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-217-72.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 18:11:36 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:12:01 amado [~amado@187.209.62.188] has joined #lisp 18:13:01 -!- zldanielmglz [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 18:13:11 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 18:13:25 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-164-252.w109-222.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:14:05 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 18:14:47 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 18:17:20 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:17:47 maxm-: therep 18:17:58 Is it not allowed to refer to previous variables with let? Like this (let ((a 0) (b 1) (c (+a b)))..... 18:18:07 let* is 18:18:19 i mean, let isn't allowed, let is 18:18:25 err, let* is 18:21:44 In emacs how do I interrupt an eternal loop I got at REPL? 18:22:06 stassats: mistake tab key? 18:22:14 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.116.182] has quit [Quit: bye] 18:22:59 jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 18:26:37 nope 18:26:52 maxm-: do you have any override-heavy code for commonqt 18:26:56 or anything-heavy code 18:27:04 -!- engblom [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:24 engblom [~user@86-60-152-181-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi] has joined #lisp 18:27:24 -!- engblom [~user@86-60-152-181-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi] has quit [Changing host] 18:27:24 engblom [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has joined #lisp 18:27:56 jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has joined #lisp 18:27:56 i'm optimizing it, it does very well when there's no overrides, avoid calling lisp in that case 18:29:05 I do have lots of overrides, mouseover event (to draw cross-hairs), drawBackground (to draw grid), etc 18:29:53 I'll pull your changes and test them out, is it on your github stuff? 18:29:54 well, i guess you can't just use my branch, because there are some unmerged marshalling 18:30:17 next week or so, I need to see whats new anyway.. Had not updated any stuff for a while 18:30:25 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:28 yeah, it is https://github.com/stassats/commonqt/tree/override-on-cpp-side 18:31:11 when do you actually do it? I remember it was using caches, based on types of args 18:31:24 -!- rjmt__ [~uid1@46-65-28-90.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:31:32 so you actually do it when class is redefined, in one of meta object methods? 18:32:37 yes, i pull information about overrides at finalize-inheritance time, then feed it to cpp 18:32:46 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:33:13 and don't use strings, but indices, stored in a hashtable on the cpp side 18:33:26 so the call goes without any string conversion and hashtables on the lisp side 18:33:58 Okay, now I got the second one made: http://paste.lisp.org/display/133949 18:34:07 looking at compute-specs now 18:34:09 Anything that I should improve in this one? 18:34:10 morphling [~stefan@77.0.33.177] has joined #lisp 18:35:11 maxm-: compute-specs isn't new and special, it's just used to pull all the slots, signals and overrides from the superclasses 18:35:17 -!- EventHorizon [~asdf@107-200-38-103.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:35:20 What I do not like myself in it is that I am actually twice calculating a+b. 18:36:42 -!- nerwbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:38:18 Ah, now I can see that it is not even up to specification... 18:38:29 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:39:31 ah ok, thought it was more invasive.. So it marks it as override same as befor, only based on name, except name lookup is done once in class finalization 18:39:57 looks good to me, I'll try to merge and will submit any glitches 18:39:57 well, i had to change many things, but it's simple, yes 18:40:14 just eliminates duplications and overheads 18:40:56 but I think my speed improvement would be small, because I already have a hack that caches method name -> method index lookup, (coz thats where majority of cpu was spent), which you don't have 18:41:08 but obviously right way to do it is better then a hashtable hack 18:41:24 i do have it 18:41:42 oh, how big speedup you getting? 18:41:44 -!- kofno [~kofno@24.165.213.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:38 *maxm-* is unsure on the right way to benchmark, as my benchmark been running sb-sprof, and then do "jerk mouse around as chart is redrawing" thing for 1 minute, then look at profile 18:42:39 my speedup is from not having to call lisp when the method is not overriden 18:42:40 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:43:35 makes sense.. I'll get to you next week once I merge it 18:44:15 but when it's overridden, it doesn't need to to method-name -> method-overrides hashtable lookup, because it informs cpp that, say, "data" will have index 10 in the class override-tables 18:44:26 and then cpp calls it with 10, and it's just an AREF 18:46:41 there are still possible things to speed up, like maybe signals or something, but i've ran out of code to profile 18:46:51 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:48:32 engblom: in emacs, you can interrupt things with C-g C-g. 18:48:37 maybe with this changes i can have models which pull data from lisp as needed, right now i just populate them with all the data once 18:48:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@82-054.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:49:08 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has left #lisp 18:49:36 but qt is a bit wasteful when it comes to models, it fetches them over and over, which means marshalling overhead 18:55:09 danlentz [~danlentz@c-71-58-50-195.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:43 yea my app kind of gets around that thing, by the fact that it uses QGraphicsView 18:56:22 so basically I just add and then update the view objects (ie polygons text and such), and all of their drawing and such done by graphics view itself.. 18:56:52 so my only callbacks into lisp are to draw background grid, and mouseover to display crosshair and object info about object under cursor 18:57:14 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 18:58:47 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:59:35 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:37 pjb: That I thought too, but it did not work... I had to kill the whole emacs. 19:00:23 next stop: android, that's where all those optimizations would pay off 19:02:12 h3x3d1 [~h3x3d@37.204.46.127] has joined #lisp 19:04:15 jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 19:05:05 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-71-58-50-195.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:06:38 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:28 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: sudden death] 19:12:28 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:14:30 -!- samrat [~samrat@49.244.10.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:17:54 k0001 [~k0001@host231.186-125-103.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:17:57 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:20:53 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:49 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:22:15 daniel [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 19:22:52 -!- daniel is now known as zldanielmgzl 19:23:22 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.62.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:31 -!- zldanielmgzl is now known as zldanielmglz 19:23:36 -!- zldanielmglz [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 19:24:04 shwouchk [c07217d1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.114.23.209] has joined #lisp 19:24:10 hello 19:25:36 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:27:21 hi, I'm having trouble starting a new project in Lisp; what's the 'workflow'? (e.g., I want to create an ASDF file and do some TDD. Where do I start?) 19:28:33 I'm trying to use glut+opengl to display some calculation after a keypress. For that, I defined a global *var* which I set to t in glut:keyboard for the given key, and in the calculation, I put a (loop (when *var* (setf *var* nil) (return)). This strategy doesn't work - apparently the keyboard function is never entered when I'm in the loop. suggestions for a better way to do it/ 19:28:35 ? 19:29:34 Tordek: For initial work, testing code in REPL works well enough for TDD. Choose some testing framework and make a separate ASDF system to hold test code, and use that for "specification check" 19:29:50 Tordek: I haven't gotten around to stuff like that yet, but I did search for it a while back and this seems relevant: http://www.google.co.il/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fxach.livejournal.com%2F278047.html%3Fthread%3D674335&ei=-2W2UNqBHczWsgaE-YGwAg&usg=AFQjCNEylDEzpHiKNFrqZI5vO_BPLdX3eA 19:31:23 p_l: I'm somewhat used to working in the REPL; the problem is going back and forth between editing a function and updating it a the REPL (Though I should pprobably learn SLIME better) 19:32:19 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:32:21 Yes, with slime there's no difference; the repl is in your editing window. 19:32:44 shwouchk: thanks, I'll check that out 19:33:19 Tordek: also, remember you can use shortcuts to send the changed code directly to lisp image for compilation, then test it 19:34:31 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 19:35:10 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-138-130-146-233.lns5.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bye] 19:35:50 EventHorizon [~asdf@107-200-38-103.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:38 shwouchk: regarding your keyboard question, you should either implement or use an event loop, or use threads. 19:38:13 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:38:43 and/or some kind of event "bus" to push the data from eventloop handling input to separate calculation thread 19:39:10 in either case, a major rewrite 19:39:13 bah 19:39:21 pjb, p_l thanks 19:41:31 hmm 19:41:45 maybe multithreading won't be so much of a rewrite 19:43:27 HG` [~HG@wprt-4d09a272.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:31 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl23-18-80.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:52 -!- shwouchk [c07217d1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.114.23.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:47:13 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:47:19 shwouchk [c07217d1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.114.23.209] has joined #lisp 19:47:55 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:50:43 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.55] has joined #lisp 19:51:02 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 19:52:24 am I correct in understanding that sbcl threads are not portable to windows? 19:53:13 -!- Guest64056 is now known as dmbaturin 19:53:14 In addition to the official SBCL, a Windows fork exists that adds support for threads on that platform as well. Though is has not yet been incorporated into mainline, Windows users may want to consider using it in the meanwhile. 19:53:24 shwouchk: (that's from sbcl.org) 19:53:46 jasom: thanks 19:54:25 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:57 jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 19:54:57 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:55:37 but please test the current git, as there has been substantial merging work on windows threads recently 19:55:48 it's not as far along as the fork, but it would be good to know if it works 19:56:28 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.116.182] has joined #lisp 19:56:31 bind [~bind@D4B2749A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 19:57:39 k0001_ [~k0001@186.153.75.237] has joined #lisp 19:59:27 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 20:00:27 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 20:00:34 yates 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[~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:52:42 -!- jjkola_work_ is now known as jjkola_work 21:53:09 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 21:56:50 luqui [~luqui@23.31.73.66] has joined #lisp 22:01:54 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-27-152.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:03:07 jjkola_work_ [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 22:03:31 -!- ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:05:56 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:06:09 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:06:10 -!- jjkola_work_ is now known as jjkola_work 22:12:48 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 22:13:51 how do i convert a number to a string? e.g., (concat "this is number " conversion((+ 1 4))) 22:14:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.180.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:14:49 princ-to-string 22:15:55 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:02 fe[nl]ix: thank you 22:17:49 if i wanted to format a string of a series of coordinates in the form "x1,y1 x2,y2 ..." would there be a better way than using concat + princ-to-string? 22:18:16 yes 22:18:23 where each x,y is computed 22:18:31 Krystof: using format? 22:18:34 hang on, concat? Are you using emacs-lisp? 22:18:42 no, cl 22:18:46 isn't that a cl function? 22:18:49 no 22:19:04 "concatenate" is, however. 22:19:09 Krystof: wups. well anyway, what functionwould you use for this? 22:19:17 ok Bike 22:19:26 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-3.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:32 yates: FORMAT. 22:19:34 and you could use format for a series of coordinates like that, probably. 22:19:39 yates: if you already have a list of two-element lists for your coordinate pairs, I would use format 22:20:08 if you don't, I would use with-output-to-string and a loop, with whatever output function you like 22:20:50 i'll look at both - thank you. 22:21:06 SunMoonStar [~maks@ool-457f5814.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:14 -!- SunMoonStar [~maks@ool-457f5814.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:21:14 -!- Myk267 [~myk@71.149.244.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:26 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 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#lisp 23:23:29 aynik [~aynik@unaffiliated/aynik] has joined #lisp 23:24:06 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.20.77] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:24:33 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:56 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-039-183.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:27:38 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:42 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:27:47 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:28:02 -!- sellout is now known as Guest33892 23:28:46 -!- Guest33892 is now known as sellout_ 23:30:55 shwouchk [~kosta@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has joined #lisp 23:31:04 hello 23:31:24 Is there a way to see trace output of a function that is running in a thread? 23:37:20 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 23:38:00 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-3.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:38:06 -!- biscarch [~chris@ip-64-134-239-62.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:38:48 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-96-198.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:39:32 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-76-3.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:20 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:49:59 how do i make a format specifier that moves through the list two at a time? 23:50:02 (format nil "~{~2$,~2$ ~}" (list 1.2 5.32332 6.23467)) 23:50:10 something like that ^^^^ (but that doesn't work) 23:50:46 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:50:47 (format nil "~{~2$,~2$ ~}" (list 1.2 5.32332 6.23467 4)) ==> "1.2,5.32 6.23,4" 23:51:45 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:35 yates: clhs 22.3 probably has what you're asking for, but i don't grasp what you want it to do. 23:53:51 yates: try ~A instead of ~$? 23:53:58 yates: no, sorry 23:54:26 madnificent: look at the result compared to the list - that says it all 23:54:55 i want to take the list, two at a time, make an "ordered pair" from those two, then place a space afterwards. rinse, lather, repeat. 23:54:56 yates: it doesn't say ti to me :/ it looks like an answer to your question... 23:55:17 yates: isn't that what it /does/ ? 23:55:34 yates: what doesn't work? 23:55:36 what result do you expect it to give? do you want to skip the last space? or? 23:55:39 space in the end? 23:55:46 madnificent: oh shit! 23:55:51 yes, that works! 23:56:03 LoL 23:56:11 (i was omitting the last couplet in my example code so it was crashing...) 23:56:14 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:29 the last "y" value of my x,y value list 23:56:39 thanks! 23:57:33 -!- shwouchk [~kosta@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:57:49 shwouchk [~kosta@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has joined #lisp 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