00:00:20 bracx [~bracx@d118-75-192-154.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:43 Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 00:02:41 -!- ircmouser [~guest@c-67-172-123-65.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: i dont know why i do this] 00:02:49 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:17 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:45 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:32 -!- bracx [~bracx@d118-75-192-154.try.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 00:06:58 -!- Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:09:53 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:03 -!- pjb` [~t@voyager.informatimago.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:12:27 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15:11 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 00:16:43 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:20 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:03 -!- pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:20:34 -!- biscarch [~chris@ip-64-134-238-131.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:23:43 so how do folks deploy/run apps on servers? tmux/emacs/slime? sbc --load app.lisp & ? if so how do you access the repl for a running app etc. 00:24:51 jaimef: i use detachtty and a startup script 00:25:05 screen, detachtty, ... 00:25:06 jaimef: that's for webapps 00:25:30 jaimef: a lisp startup script from screen, includes (swank:create-server), so I can connect later on. 00:25:50 k 00:26:00 actually still looking for an optimal way of deploying stuff 00:26:15 will watch the discussion (if there's any) 00:26:26 *jaimef* was thinking emacs + tramp + slime 00:27:35 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~bruce@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:28:02 ArmyOfBruce [~bruce@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 00:29:38 I use screen and an executable core. 00:30:25 Used to use a nanny script the way that lisppaste et al. are set up, but my current deployment environment is too screwed up for that to work easily. 00:30:35 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-97-39.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 00:31:01 (Actually, I have a startup script and an executable core. Running multiple instances, which is why the current nanny script isn't usable.) 00:32:23 khumba [~khumba@207.108.197.156] has joined #lisp 00:34:14 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:37:30 nyef_: hey hey! 00:37:44 Hello drewc. 00:38:00 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:38:26 jaimef: I use tmux, used to use detachtty, and before that used screen 00:39:36 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-196-139.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:32 oh man, i fixed a bug two months ago and forgot to do "git push" 00:40:35 how stupid is that? 00:41:58 did you do it on "ballmer's peak" and took an extra whisky at the end? ;P 00:42:09 no 00:42:17 stassats: happens to me all the time... I won't say if that makes me stupid ... but I won't say that it doesn't either. 00:42:36 and how unfortunate that i noticed just on the day of a new quicklisp release 00:43:49 and they say CVS is stupid, once you commit in cvs, you know it's committed 00:45:26 and what makes it worse, i fixed a bug introduced in the previous commit, just an hour after 00:46:18 drewc: why did you abandon screen? too limited? 00:47:40 Given that I'm currently using screen, I'd be interested to hear this. (-: 00:48:14 given that i'm too lazy to change what's working, i'm not 00:49:18 well, detachtty makes more sense for the server I was creating at the time, and screen did not ... at all. So, that is the reason I dropped using screen for that in '05 00:49:21 -!- homie [~homie@94.122.241.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:50:03 Nowadays, I use tmux because , well, C-a for one, and it is 'better' for a number of other reasons imo as well. 00:50:50 but, I will not say 'you should use !' because is is just my opinion rather then a 'fact'. 00:52:35 I was just curious to know screen/detachtty/tmux strengths and weaknesses 00:52:46 so, screen vs tmux vs detachtty ... I have used all of them and any would do for my currently usage. clisp vs SBCL vs CCL, otoh, my opinion matters! :P 00:53:24 SBCL, of course, right? d-: 00:53:56 of course! :p 00:54:08 #lisp is like #lispcafe of #sbcl 00:54:34 sbcl is nice, but clisp has some features i feel are missing from sbcl 00:54:49 Like what features? 00:55:08 GPL? ;) 00:55:14 a menorah? 00:55:21 :) 00:55:22 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 00:55:53 kitten of death doesn't count does it? 00:56:01 gpl and command history 00:56:10 GPL is not a feature 00:56:16 minion: please tell Subfusc about linedit 00:56:17 linedit: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/linedit 00:56:23 and said history is how GPL was forced on CLISP 00:56:32 but yes, you can use linedit 00:56:41 or rather, use Slime 00:56:46 ^ 00:56:52 also, more integration with standard *nix stuff. 00:57:07 rlwrap for times when you must 00:57:17 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 00:57:21 Subfusc: SBCL is pretty well integrated there, though it's better with osicat or iolib 00:57:22 Subfusc: what kind of integration? 00:57:36 various other clisp modules aren't for standard *nix stuff, I fear 00:57:44 stassats: I never had to use rlwrap once I found out about linedit. 00:58:04 *drewc* is going to say out loud what he wants to type here, and depart this chan for now ;) 00:58:05 I realise the wrapper is a more general thing, but still. 00:58:16 -!- emacs-dw` [~user@cpe-67-249-148-53.twcny.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 00:58:18 shebang? I know you can hack it with sbcl --script-mode But it just feels so ugly 00:58:26 what? 00:58:39 that sentence doesn't make any sense! 00:58:40 #! 00:58:50 Subfusc: umm... SBCL's FASL files have shebang support 00:58:56 as in, by default 00:59:07 biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:16 what does having to pass --script has to do with hacks? 00:59:28 As long as I keep the rught core and runtime in same place, I can just chmod +x script.fasl and run it 00:59:52 ircmouser [~guest@c-67-172-123-65.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:52 (works for concatenated fasls as well) 01:00:13 I hack shebang by having a small shell script that invokes SBCL to open the script as a file, read lines until it reaches one that says "exit", and then LOAD the remaining text. 01:00:25 who stores scripts in fasls? 01:00:59 stassats: well, the few things I made into scripts don't tend to change often 01:01:03 which recompiling them with changes and whenever you update your sbcl 01:01:18 better to put it into an executable core 01:01:31 true 01:01:43 though for scripting... I'm still itching to get scsh working 01:02:04 it doesn't work? 01:02:33 stassats: had some issues in the past with 64bit pointers 01:03:08 didn't get it ready since some emergency reinstall 01:03:14 (read: Arch fucked up) 01:04:29 p_l: I used scsh for my shell scripts a long time ago .. and still have one script that runs it. It is pretty good for an scsh .... I use /bin/sh nowadays. 01:04:55 drewc: well, I tend to prefer having at least ksh 01:05:02 :) 01:05:26 p_l: I use ksh when I need something more advanced the sh itself :) 01:05:42 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:07:10 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.188.5] has quit [Quit: good night people!] 01:07:35 drewc: heh. I simply had a flashback to a small bit of work I did for some professor stuck with ACLs on Solaris' UFS 01:08:40 oh boy, there we go down the off-topic hole 01:09:02 yeah 01:09:07 bc1 [no@ip70-173-127-61.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:08 but don't worry, I'm too sleepy 01:09:15 yup, my fault ... and my apologies. 01:09:22 *drewc* departs again. 01:09:27 *p_l* waves 01:10:03 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:21 stassats: tbh, I don't know much about lisp program deployment. But what I do know is that I can run programs which are spread across folders with clisp -C
using (require) and get the expected result. Being a Unix kind of guy, this speaks to me in a loud manner. If I have missunderstood something fundamental then please enlighten me 01:13:23 :P 01:14:16 Now im just living in SLIME, and thats fine since nothing i do is going into anything enterprise 01:14:18 ;) 01:14:21 you can do the same thing with sbcl 01:14:36 -!- ml__ [~ml@p3E9E31C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:14:45 the calling options are different, though 01:15:10 Last hardcore lisp guy i spoke to told me that require would not work on all the compilers, I got some erros with sbcl, but perhaps i just invoked it wrong 01:15:49 Subfusc: well, require was kinda "obsoleted" in the standard, so.. 01:15:54 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 01:16:13 p_l: that doesn't mean anything 01:16:14 but SBCL gives you a measure of control over it, so at worst you need to add your own resolver function 01:16:38 stassats: yes, it doesn't, but it means that there isn't necessarily parity of support between implementations 01:16:41 the problem is that it's underspecified, but it works fine when it's hooked up to asdf, like many implementations do 01:16:48 -!- khumba [~khumba@207.108.197.156] has left #lisp 01:17:33 yeah, I don't use asdf 01:17:50 is that like not watching TV or not eating meat? 01:18:34 stassats: more like using salt instead of bandages 01:18:55 (unless you use something like XCVB or maybe POIU) 01:19:09 its more the combination of not needing it and really hating the idea of installing an external library just to be able to build a program in $language 01:19:20 fascinating 01:20:15 Subfusc: actually, ASDF is bundled nowadays with serious lisp implementations 01:20:22 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:20:30 do you also call GCC by hand or use Make? 01:21:35 Yuuhi``` [benni@p54839F27.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:38 Subfusc: do you even use quicklisp? 01:22:49 or is it not kosher as well? 01:23:15 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 01:23:22 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483B865.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:23:48 I just find ASDF irritating to use, so I do my own thing, which tends to work pretty well. 01:24:19 nyef_: are you not using third party libraries? 01:24:39 I am, for which I use quicklisp. 01:24:49 which uses asdf 01:24:58 But for my own code, I can't be bothered dealing with ASDF. 01:25:58 i had less trouble with my code and asdf, than with other people's code and asdf 01:26:16 because i don't use any of the weird half-baked features 01:27:37 p_l: i use make. Difference is Make is installed in the system and is optional, asdf doesnt seem to be. 01:27:49 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:52 ml__ [~ml@p3E9E5278.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:04 Subfusc: um... every sensible CL implementations includes fairly recent ASDF 01:28:18 make optional? have you tried compiling anything from sources? 01:28:56 stassats: I like the idea of quicklisp, the same way i like the idea of easy_install. But I like even more to do $packagemanager install $library 01:29:03 and how did you justify installing a CL implementation? 01:29:22 stassats: yes i have 01:29:36 you can also use cmake e.g 01:30:03 its a build system, not a necessity for running everything 01:30:29 sorry, to tired. I am not making sense, not even to me 01:30:31 :P 01:30:41 i'm not sure that you're for real 01:31:25 stassats: I'm not, its all in your head 01:31:27 can't you just accept that certain things in certain different areas are done in different ways? 01:32:19 i can't seem to be able to build a source which uses make or cmake, or what have you without it 01:33:37 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:35:22 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-104-120.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:39:18 stassats: Yes I can. 01:41:16 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 01:45:07 LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has joined #lisp 01:45:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:47:04 sw2wolf [~czsq888@118.112.69.167] has joined #lisp 01:47:26 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:20 -!- _tca [~tca@thewired.me] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:53:24 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:28 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-2925066520.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:56:01 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:57:32 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:57:36 Natch_r [~Natch@c-eccde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 01:59:34 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-eccde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:59:35 -!- Natch_r is now known as Natch 02:03:12 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:04:25 -!- ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:05:12 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 02:06:08 -!- robonyankitty [~mechanyan@li125-243.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 02:06:15 mechanyancat [~mechanyan@li125-243.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 02:06:46 ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 02:08:19 antgreen` [~user@dsl-173-206-169-60.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 02:08:42 -!- antgreen [~user@dsl-173-206-169-60.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:34 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:11:48 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 02:13:42 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:15:28 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 02:15:41 All make does is build a dependency graph and walk it. But that hardly seems relevant to #lisp. 02:18:52 w 02:19:14 (Nor are random Unix commands typed in the wrong window. My bad.) 02:20:42 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:20:50 Joreji [~thomas@81-124.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 02:21:42 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 02:23:09 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 02:27:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-124.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:28:41 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 02:29:34 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:31:45 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 02:34:24 -!- antgreen` [~user@dsl-173-206-169-60.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:35:25 TeMPOraL` [~user@31-187-1-188.home.aster.pl] has joined #lisp 02:35:42 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:36:36 -!- noogenesis is now known as derekv 02:37:49 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 02:38:37 -!- cross [cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:40:34 -!- TeMPOraL` [~user@31-187-1-188.home.aster.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:41:11 liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has joined #lisp 02:41:18 -!- walter|rtn [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:41:42 walter|rtn [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:20 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:44:04 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 02:49:09 -!- jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 02:49:21 jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has joined #lisp 02:52:56 Daditos [~kvirc@unaffiliated/daditos] has joined #lisp 02:53:10 zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has joined #lisp 02:54:33 -!- ircmouser [~guest@c-67-172-123-65.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:00:04 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:03:29 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:05:22 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 03:08:24 -!- jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 03:10:14 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:11:34 EventHorizon [~asdf@107-200-38-103.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:36 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 03:15:58 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:16:18 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 03:16:31 teggi [~teggi@113.172.56.203] has joined #lisp 03:17:02 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:12 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host107.200-117-34.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:19:40 asciilifeform [~asciilife@pool-96-241-145-22.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:04 -!- asciilifeform is now known as Guest18484 03:20:22 jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has joined #lisp 03:20:27 -!- walter|rtn [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:20:59 -!- Guest18484 is now known as asciilifeform 03:20:59 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:21:00 k0001 [~k0001@host173.186-125-99.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 03:22:38 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 03:23:11 Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 03:25:08 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 03:26:13 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:26:52 -!- jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 03:29:20 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:30:55 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 03:35:12 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-59-142-111.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:35:32 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-59-142-111.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:26 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:12 how can i make a macro that generates the output of this, but if get-version is nil, do not include that cons? http://paste.lisp.org/display/133918 03:42:00 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:43:14 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 03:43:24 ,@(let ((version (get-version id))) (when version `((version . ,version)))) 03:43:57 There are other, ah, versions that you could use, of course. 03:44:36 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:45:15 thanks 03:45:18 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 03:47:00 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:48:56 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:49:53 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 03:53:25 anyone like lispworks on lin ?ux 03:57:16 im not sure how to do it with that. id like to generate the same list of conses with or without 1 depending on that check 03:58:14 -!- SunMoonStar [~maks@ool-457f5814.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:58:39 axion: I've used the PUSH pattern in the past, for stuff like this. Hold on. 03:58:56 and what is wrong with what nyef posted? 03:59:47 nothing in the least 03:59:50 axion: https://github.com/sykopomp/chillax/blob/master/src/core/design-document.lisp#L38-L72 04:00:41 -!- Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 04:01:21 *drewc* annotates it : http://paste.lisp.org/+2VBY/1 04:02:22 also funny about looking at that code: hilarity with predicate naming conventions when checking whether a boolean kwarg was provided or not. 04:02:53 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:02:54 -!- benny [~user@i577A84D8.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:04:45 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:06:16 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 04:06:37 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: brb] 04:09:08 -!- mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-1-231.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:09:17 mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-1-231.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 04:09:49 (mapcan (fn.name) (let ((v (funcall (car fn.name) i))) (when v `((,(cdr fn.name) . ,v)))) '((name . get-name) (parent . get-parent) (version . get-version))) 04:11:00 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 04:11:59 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:12:08 thanks. i was struggling 04:12:09 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 04:12:51 or (mapcan ... (create-thing '(name parent version)) where (defun create-thing (list) (mapcar (n) (cons n (intern (concatenate 'string "GET-" (symbol-name n)))))) 04:13:34 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:15:10 or I can come up with 50 other ways to do something that does not need to be done, because (defclass data () ((name ...) (parent ...) ...) or something similar makes a lot more sense, and besides that, ACONS 04:16:52 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 04:18:27 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 04:19:37 thanks a lot. where can i find info on the @ prefix? 04:19:51 clhs ` 04:19:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 04:21:56 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:27 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-2925066520.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 04:23:10 excellent :) 04:23:30 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:24:21 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has left #lisp 04:25:03 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 04:26:37 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:01 -!- rahul is now known as Guest93831 04:30:07 -!- zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:30:29 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 04:31:14 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:35:41 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:38:57 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 04:48:04 antgreen [~user@dsl-173-206-164-10.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 04:50:22 Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:35 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:52:26 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:57:15 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 04:57:48 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 05:02:17 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:02:41 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-196-139.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 05:06:49 k0001_ [~k0001@186.153.74.199] has joined #lisp 05:07:05 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-196-139.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:09:52 gridaphobe [~user@cpe-66-91-253-127.san.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:10:12 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host173.186-125-99.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:11:29 benny [~user@i577A1E86.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:20:38 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:26:47 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 05:30:11 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.116.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:31:14 -!- bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:33:48 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.116.182] has joined #lisp 05:35:08 -!- biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:40:43 zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@184.89.111.53] has joined #lisp 05:41:52 biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:35 Is SWIG widely used in CFFI mode? I spent a couple of hours today trying to get it to work right with C++ stl strings by value and const reference since that's not out-of-the-box with CFFI (I looked at the C# one for inspiration) and couldn't help but wonder: Am I using the wrong tool?? 05:44:26 Don't get me wrong, I like SWIG so far, it's totally neato. But I'd like to know if I'm behing the times eheh 05:58:27 zulu_inuoe: in this channel, most people seem to avoid interfacing to c++ from cl altogether because it usually is rather cumbersome, with or without swig 06:00:25 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 06:01:45 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:01:51 H4ns: I agree but when situations call for it, it's useful to have a tool to deal with it. My company rolls out 100% C++, so SWIG's automatic generation of wrapper interfaces is a godsend 06:03:48 zulu_inuoe: i'm inclined to say that cl is not the right tool to use in a c++ shop 06:03:56 oh, there i said it :) 06:06:46 H4ns: Haha, well I'm out to have fun more than anything. I see an angle of attack in our latest project if I can get this worked out by having SBCL 'host' our stuff as a non-intrusive toplevel control 06:06:55 myx [~myx@pppoe-196-222-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 06:07:18 jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:08:14 I forsee the number of places where interaction between C++ and CL occurs to be managable, so I figure it's worth a shot. Going to have great fun wrapping some of these boost template classes though.. 06:08:18 the usual solution is to wrap the c++ stuff under a c layer that one cann easily call. 06:08:22 -!- gridaphobe [~user@cpe-66-91-253-127.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:09:19 H4ns: Yes, and if I can get SWIG to do that in a manner that is not disruptive to our current development (my favorite thing about SWIG) then I'd be all set! 06:10:09 I just need to enhance support for more stl types (the cffi 'exit' in SWIG doesn't come with any!!!) and a couple of boost ones and I think I'll be ready to roll 06:10:18 you could write yourself some code that generates both the cffi stubs and the c-to-c++ translation layer in lisp. 06:10:34 (in cl, obviously) 06:12:00 H4ns: But SWIG already generates the stubs -and- the C interface. It's just not as seamless for commonly used data types (such as std::string) out of the box 06:12:59 teggi_ [~teggi@113.172.63.47] has joined #lisp 06:14:58 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.56.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:17:38 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:38 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-urolrinokoipfrob] has joined #lisp 06:22:38 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-urolrinokoipfrob] has quit [Changing host] 06:22:38 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:22:40 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:24:59 -!- Guest58559 [~impulse@65.95.105.140] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:26:33 impulse [~impulse@65.95.105.140] has joined #lisp 06:29:29 jjkola_work_ [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 06:31:06 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:31:06 -!- jjkola_work_ is now known as jjkola_work 06:32:22 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.123.18] has joined #lisp 06:38:27 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@112.158.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:38:50 Kvaks [~kvaks@112.158.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 06:39:27 -!- kleppari [~spa@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:39:35 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:39:42 kleppari [~spa@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has joined #lisp 06:40:15 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:45:48 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@cocytus.blisses.org] has joined #lisp 06:45:48 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@cocytus.blisses.org] has quit [Changing host] 06:45:48 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has joined #lisp 06:47:43 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@186.153.74.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:49:33 k0001 [~k0001@host73.190-229-212.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 06:53:02 *jaimef* looks for a reload method for hunchentoot that does not mean killing the startserver script and restarting it 06:53:14 -!- idurand [~idurand@faucon.labri.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:54:00 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-181-186-247.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:20 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:55:34 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-240-254.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:55:47 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:57:47 cxmu [320e835a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.14.131.90] has joined #lisp 06:58:11 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 07:01:07 jaimef: what exactly do you want to reload? 07:01:34 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 07:02:52 H4ns: changes to routes. 07:03:00 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 07:03:41 jaimef: you made changes to the source? then just reload the system. 07:03:45 H4ns: I make some changes to routes, and want to reeval them. 07:03:52 H4ns: reload a keyword? 07:03:59 hu? 07:04:02 or we talking complete restart of launch script? 07:04:06 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:04:24 i don't know what you are talking. i am talking about reloading the asdf system that contains the route definitions. 07:04:29 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:04:38 i am assuming that cl-routes properly deals with reloading. 07:04:42 yes, and i was asking for clairification 07:05:01 sigint it is. thanks 07:05:09 "aha" 07:05:36 you are not talking about hunchentoot in that case. hunchentoot does not know about "reloading" or "sigint" 07:06:29 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:06:49 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:09:26 seems like that would make uptimes for webserver vm's to be short lived if a src change required a complete restart 07:12:05 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-2-145.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:43 this sounds like a post office more than it does a programming channel 07:14:55 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:16:35 H4ns: thanks for the clarification. redefining is insufficient to effect the change desired. 07:21:03 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:23:13 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1cbf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:48 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 07:24:17 asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 07:29:33 paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:34:20 -!- teggi_ is now known as teggi 07:35:52 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Quit: owl's upgrading server] 07:37:43 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.179.254] has joined #lisp 07:40:14 -!- antgreen [~user@dsl-173-206-164-10.tor.primus.ca] has quit 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[~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 09:39:26 mutha [~mutha@109.227.25.55] has joined #lisp 09:41:12 dbh [~user@182.55.2.111] has joined #lisp 09:42:02 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:42:25 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 09:42:33 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 09:42:46 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-59-142-111.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:19 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:43:58 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:46:54 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.182] has joined #lisp 09:47:02 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:47:31 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 09:48:03 alexander__b [~alexander@fsf/member/alexanderb] has joined #lisp 09:48:25 quick question - can I (common lisp) make 3 divided by four evaluate as 0 somehow? 09:48:48 (3/4) and (/ 3 4) both evaluate 3/4, whilst (/ 3.0 4.0) makes 0.75. 09:49:21 basically how do I do integers? 09:50:04 floor maybe? 09:50:47 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has left #lisp 09:50:51 you tell me, hehe. I'm sure my lisp tutorials that I aim at going through will bring it up at some point, but I was just playing around with sbcl, using it as a calculator atm. 09:52:01 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 09:52:02 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:52:17 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 09:53:21 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 09:57:02 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:57:42 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 09:57:56 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.96.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:59:12 jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 10:01:31 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-027-197.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:02:02 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:02:42 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 10:03:04 -!- sellout [~Adium@pool-71-175-17-248.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:05:55 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 10:07:02 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:07:23 -!- tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 10:07:42 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 10:08:42 tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:31 -!- tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:10:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:11:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:12:02 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:12:43 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 10:14:12 -!- dbh [~user@182.55.2.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:17:00 why would anybody want a calculator which tells 3/4 is 0? 10:17:02 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:17:18 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 10:18:23 -!- H4ns changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Yason 0.6.1, SBCL 1.1.1, Hunchentoot 1.2.7, Drakma 1.2.9 10:19:24 saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA0E72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:19:36 cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-82-189.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 10:20:57 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:21:59 jdz: ? 10:22:02 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:22:17 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 10:22:23 (float 3/4) => 0.75 10:23:09 Indecipherable: scroll up a bit 10:23:36 I cleared my screen =/ 10:25:38 mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:27:02 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:27:12 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:27:16 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 10:29:47 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-97-39.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 10:31:38 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:32:15 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:33:08 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-2-145.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:34:25 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:20 liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has joined #lisp 10:36:40 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37:00 liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has joined #lisp 10:37:27 -!- H4ns changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Yason 0.6.2, SBCL 1.1.1, Hunchentoot 1.2.7, Drakma 1.2.9 10:38:40 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38:45 jdz: soo... how did you get 0 then? 10:38:46 liweinan_ [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has joined #lisp 10:39:01 bitonic [~user@dyn1223-217.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:40:32 liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has joined #lisp 10:42:03 read the logs if you want context 10:42:53 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 10:42:55 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA0E72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:43:24 -!- liweinan_ [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:44:51 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:46:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:46:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:48:35 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-58-164-75-230.lns1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:51:37 rudi_ [~rudi@1x-193-157-241-245.uio.no] has joined #lisp 10:52:32 -!- rudi_ is now known as rudi 10:54:03 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.30.221.74] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 10:55:17 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-wzzxotnpbdnxcsvi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:55:58 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-pyvlpkgjddtoaagg] has joined #lisp 10:56:15 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:56:31 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@144.64.18.80] has joined #lisp 10:58:24 jdz: because integer 11:06:28 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.16.92] has joined #lisp 11:12:47 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.90.1] 11:14:00 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:15:07 jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 11:17:25 (defun int/ (x y) (values (floor (/ x y)))) 11:18:18 (int/ 5 2) => 2 11:19:59 mutha: thanks 11:21:20 values was to ignore second value returned by floor (remainder) 11:21:32 yes, I got that. 11:22:29 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 11:23:39 liweinan [~liweinan@123.123.50.128] has joined #lisp 11:24:52 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 11:26:07 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-212-98.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 11:26:20 paul0 [~paulo@177.96.48.226] has joined #lisp 11:26:43 (floor (/ x y)) == (floor x y) 11:28:04 -!- holycow [~holycow@69.172.160.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:28:19 holycow [~holycow@69.172.160.27] has joined #lisp 11:28:54 mutha: out of curiosity, how would you use car instead of values? it probably isn't a proper place to use car, but... I'm just curious. (car (floor (/ 3 4))) says that 3/4 is not a list, which I understand is true. but how do I make it treat the return values of floor as a list? 11:29:38 oh, I guess cdr not car. 11:31:11 errr no. car. sorry for the confusion. 11:31:35 alexander__b: values isnt a list. when you assign values to a var or pass it to a function only the first value is used. 11:32:03 you want nth-value btw 11:32:08 mutha: yes. so what I'm asking is how would I turn the result of (floor (/ 3 4)) into a list - (0 3/4)? 11:32:33 multiple-values-list 11:33:12 (car '(0 3/4)) will eval as 0. (car (floor (/ 3 4))) makes sbcl spit out "0 is not a list". 11:33:15 mutha: OK. 11:34:30 (nth-value 0 (values 1 2 3)) 11:34:43 yes, I got it. 11:34:55 (car (multiple-value-list (floor (/ 3 4)))). thanks. 11:35:51 there is multiple-value-bind and multiple-value-call too 11:36:11 I am looking at them here: https://www.ida.liu.se/imported/cltl/clm/node94.html 11:38:19 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 11:39:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:41:28 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-59-142-111.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:00 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 11:47:50 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 11:50:53 -!- cxmu [320e835a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.14.131.90] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:58:24 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1223-217.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:59:46 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-164-252.w109-222.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:00:30 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:00:55 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:02:08 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:10 -!- mutha [~mutha@109.227.25.55] has quit [Quit: quit] 12:05:18 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 12:07:21 segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-250-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:23 bitonic [~user@dyn1223-217.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:12:33 Is there a name for a version of mapcar that only stops after the longest list has been consumed? 12:16:02 luis: you want to come up with a name? 12:16:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:17:14 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:18:44 I'm wondering if there's a usual name for this, or better even, a nice idiom. 12:19:15 I don't have a good name, no. 12:19:27 luis: but you have a function? 12:20:02 Yeah, there's an implementation. :) 12:21:51 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 12:21:53 like-mapcar-but-terminates-when-longest-list-runs-out 12:22:01 awesome name :) 12:22:08 luis: how about map-longest 12:22:12 self-documenting :) 12:22:46 yeah, something like mapcar-full or mapcar-all 12:22:55 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:23:44 cases where one needs such a function are quite rare, methinks 12:23:50 antgreen [~user@dsl-207-112-126-76.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 12:24:14 according to wikipedia only PHP's map_array has this behaviour. :-) 12:24:35 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:25:41 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:27:06 conclusion: if you need such mapcar, you've done something wrong; very, very wrong. 12:28:27 (a reference to http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Kill_yourself/hamsterkill.jpg) 12:28:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:29:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:36:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.180.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:38:36 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:39:10 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.180.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 12:42:14 mcguitan83 [~user@completel-1.anevia.com] has joined #lisp 12:43:20 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:44:51 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:21 and1_ [~namtsui@c-67-164-94-142.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:41 mutha [~mutha@109.227.25.55] has joined #lisp 12:49:05 lufu [~user@5.254.129.102] has joined #lisp 12:50:30 -!- Jasko2 [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:50:43 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.90.1] 12:53:24 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:55:23 TeMPOraL` [~user@31-187-1-188.home.aster.pl] has joined #lisp 12:55:58 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:56 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:32 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:59:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 13:00:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:01:35 Jasko [~Jasko@65.217.244.130] has joined #lisp 13:02:25 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1223-217.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:03:55 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.179.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:05:49 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.16.92] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:02 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:06:04 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:10 -!- mcguitan83 [~user@completel-1.anevia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:50 Adeon\SI1SEGV [~banaanit@109.73.169.52] has joined #lisp 13:07:39 cryptic_ [~cryptic@pool-96-246-91-191.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:07 -!- zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@184.89.111.53] has left #lisp 13:09:17 Krystof_ [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 13:09:20 tfshfz [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 13:09:31 luis` [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 13:10:22 ski_ [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:10:33 pegu`` [~user@c242C76D9.static.as2116.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:40 crypto_ [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has joined #lisp 13:10:48 agumonke1 [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:49 elliottc1ble [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 13:10:51 tkd_ [~tomek@tlahuizcalpantecuhtli.wa.ht] has joined #lisp 13:10:56 p_l_ [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 13:11:01 df____ [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:43 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. 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14:48:39 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:53 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 14:53:00 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:00 Hi in a sbcl debugger I get something like this: SB-DEBUG::ARG-2 = (10.5d0 11.5d0 12.5d0 12.5d0 13.5d0 16.5d0 20.5d0 25.5d0 3.5d0 30.5d0 31.5d0 33.5d0 ...) I am unable to print the whole list. Is there a way? 14:53:12 inspect it 14:53:14 press p 14:54:48 stassats: still shows the ... 14:55:12 the same as with L 14:56:00 did you do as i said? 14:56:13 inspect it, press p on the presentation in the header 14:57:07 yes I did 0] p same issue 14:57:16 so, you didn't 14:57:33 ah, you're not using slime? silly me 14:57:50 not slime, the inferior-lisp 14:57:55 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.99.203] has joined #lisp 14:58:00 then add step 1: use slime 14:58:04 or, step 0 14:58:40 there is no other way to inspect than by slime? 14:58:57 you can't use slime/ 14:58:57 >? 14:59:44 more bizarrely, you're using inferior-lisp, but not slime. 14:59:52 I can I 'll have to install it first, but now I'm within a program that took an hour to run, I prefer if there's a way to inspect correct without exiting 15:00:35 I prefer inferior lisp because of the Cx Ce capability to send the evaluation into the inferior lisp 15:00:55 slime has that too... 15:01:05 than slime and have the results show up in that small thin window below like when usinf elisp 15:01:23 -!- Adeon\SI1SEGV is now known as Adeon\SIGSEGV 15:01:47 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.179.254] has joined #lisp 15:01:57 francogrex: you're doing it wrong, but 15:02:13 i'm fascinated by the reasons people invent to not use something 15:02:25 francogrex: you can use (inspect (sb-debug:arg 2)) to inspect the third argument in the topmost frame 15:02:32 francogrex: it's called the minibuffer 15:02:36 francogrex: there is a way, but it will require some doc-diving. Perhaps it is easier just to run it again. I don't know it from the top of my head. 15:03:05 well I am using the good old (inspect xxx) 15:03:06 francogrex: and you want to type HELP into the debugger to learn how to navigate in the call stack and other, very interesting things. 15:03:16 francogrex: it is old, but not in any way good. 15:03:45 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 15:03:45 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 15:03:45 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 15:04:11 stassats: it would indeed be nice if one could customize that. 15:04:21 prxq: customize what? 15:04:38 yeah, i want to see the results of evaluations in lisp buffers in the repl buffer, too. 15:04:48 that's just C-c C-j 15:04:55 heh, ok 15:05:06 uh, very nice! :) 15:05:26 but hey, who read the docs nowadays 15:05:30 slime-tip time! 15:06:08 it would read like "SLIME has documentation. You can find it here." 15:06:24 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.24.77] has joined #lisp 15:06:31 C-x C-j runs the command dired-jump, too bad 15:06:56 what's "x" is doing there? 15:07:10 I can't read... 15:07:32 dim`: also, it's your own setup (i don't have that binding) 15:07:44 well, if my setup can be used to infer stuff... 15:07:53 hence the "too bad" 15:08:00 but it's moot anyway 15:08:25 -!- dim` is now known as dim 15:08:52 what I find unfortunate about the sbcl debugger is that it skips a lot. For example in none of the frames is the variable of interst visible 15:09:10 did you set debug to at least 2? 15:09:21 francogrex: it is not the debugger that skips anything, it is the optimizer. 15:09:42 francogrex: i have this in my .sbclrc: (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'debug 2) 15:09:49 jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has joined #lisp 15:09:51 makes life a little nicer. 15:10:28 -!- niels2 [~niels@p4FD6F6F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:11:29 (declaim (optimize (debug 3))) 15:11:46 H4ns: right 15:11:54 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:11:55 why do it like the pros when one can also assume and guess? 15:12:24 prxq: yours is for the optimizer? 15:12:36 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:13:09 (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy ... is that different from (optimize (debug 3)) ? 15:13:41 you can read its documentation 15:13:56 reading documentation is what pros do 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[~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:56 alexander__b [~alexander@fsf/member/alexanderb] has joined #lisp 16:44:17 what is a common way of comparing numbers? I assume (= 1.0 (/ 1 10)) isn't the regular way, for some reason 16:45:32 Joreji [~thomas@79-052.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:45:52 er, why not? 16:45:59 -!- nyef_ [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-141.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has left #lisp 16:46:00 jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:46:02 is there a (DOLIST) for array, with a START argument? 16:46:12 nyef_ [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-141.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:13 flip214: nope. 16:46:13 well you want to make sure both are of the same type I guess, I don't know what happens when you compare an int and a float, say 16:46:35 flip214: loop supports arrays 16:46:42 dlowe: is there something that will make 1.0 equal 1/10? 16:46:58 = works on all numerics. You don't want to compare exact types against inexact types, though 16:47:04 dlowe: thanks. 16:47:18 dim: yes. and MAP, and ITER. 16:47:24 alexander__b: no. decide whether you're going to be exact or not 16:47:36 (= (float (/ 1 10) 0.1))? 16:47:48 dim: not necessarily true for all x 16:48:21 it's just bad practice conceptually, in any case 16:48:47 if you have an inexact type, you'll want to quantify your tolerance for imprecision in any case 16:48:51 and in any language for that matter 16:49:06 -!- paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has left #lisp 16:49:07 flip214: I think alexandria has doseq 16:49:27 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:49:54 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 16:49:57 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.123.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:44 and then i was going to ask why would anybody want 1.0 be equal to 0.1 16:53:11 typo. meant 0.1 == 1/10. 16:53:44 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:54:53 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:39 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59:19 -!- ramkrsna__ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-sxsshnambhnaaocx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:50 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 17:01:12 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 17:04:39 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:06:11 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 17:06:54 bitonic` [~user@dyn1200-116.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:08:37 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:08:46 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:08:49 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1216-168.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:08:53 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 17:09:27 -!- cryptic_ is now known as cryptic 17:10:39 Xach: does Quicklisp do something new with Pathnames? Is there an easy way to diff the November/October Quicklisp code? 17:12:33 *easye* guesses that I solve this by rolling back the dist, but is apparently real lazy at the moment (or too pressed for time). 17:13:28 jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has joined #lisp 17:13:31 Missed the client update part. Lemme check that. 17:16:05 -!- mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:18:02 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:19:02 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 17:20:22 taotree [~taotree@c-24-20-198-203.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:08 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:24:00 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-169-82-142.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:06 -!- ozzloy_ is now known as ozzloy 17:24:27 alexander__b you might want to read this when you have the time. http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19957-01/806-3568/ncg_goldberg.html 17:24:31 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754ccc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:33 I'm getting " not legal as a function name: 'shell-with-file " for (DEFUN shell-with-file (Command File)... 17:25:04 not clear why. Using gnu clisp win32 distro just downloaded. 17:26:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:27:45 taotree: can you lisppaste a repeatable test case and the full error message? 17:28:04 From what you pasted, it looks like you wrote (defun 'shell-with-file ...). 17:28:25 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-169-82-142.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:28:28 ah, ok... that might be it. I think it has to do with the way I'm loading it. I just tried it directly from the lisp REPL and it worked. 17:28:34 thanks 17:29:22 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-17-204-151.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:24 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-93.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:32:24 -!- taotree [~taotree@c-24-20-198-203.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 17:33:25 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1200-116.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:00 darn, he escaped before we could dump slime on him 17:35:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-201.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-201.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:39:15 k0001 [~k0001@200.117.223.52] has joined #lisp 17:39:47 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:41:51 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 17:42:32 -!- am0c 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Connection reset by peer] 18:29:19 ASau [~user@46.115.106.188] has joined #lisp 18:30:03 morphling [~stefan@95.117.76.204] has joined #lisp 18:32:20 good evening everyone 18:32:59 patojo [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:03 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 18:37:33 mattrepl [~mattrepl@lark.vsnet.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:38:15 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:27 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 18:42:22 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@144.64.18.80] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 18:43:13 jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has joined #lisp 18:43:23 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-59-142-111.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:12 -!- gridaphobe [~user@128.54.33.211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:30 -!- vantage|dinner is now known as vantage|home 18:46:36 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined 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[~syamajala@dyn-209-2-238-43.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:31 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.117.223.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:26:41 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:30:02 -!- newbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:31:35 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:47 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 19:34:31 Bardamu [~Bardamu@unaffiliated/bardamu] has joined #lisp 19:34:32 Hi 19:34:55 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:14 Hi 19:36:31 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:36:46 what is the difference between defun and defmethod ? 19:37:17 defun defines a function. defmethod defines a method. 19:37:29 defgeneric defines a generic function. 19:37:51 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:37:52 a method is some code that is attached to a generic function to implement it when it's called with some class of parameter. 19:38:03 minion: PCL 19:38:04 PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 19:38:11 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:38:25 You can defmethod multiple methods with the same name, and arrange for them to be distinguished by the types of one or more of their arguments. You can only define one function for a given name. There are more subtleties, of course, but this is the major difference in use. 19:38:26 Bardamu: that book explain it 19:39:00 fe[nl]ix: thanks 19:39:19 fe[nl]ix: do you know the chapter which explains it ? 19:40:01 Bardamu: it would be better to browse the whole book. 19:41:04 Bardamu: chapters 5, 16 & 17; but pjb` is right 19:41:24 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:41:45 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 19:42:09 yes but it's only this point which is not clear for me 19:42:27 fe[nl]ix: thanks it explains very welll 19:42:50 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 19:43:47 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:56 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 19:45:17 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@78.154.160.117] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:48:14 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:51:20 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 19:51:51 Blkt` [~Blkt@82.84.188.5] has joined #lisp 19:52:38 qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 19:52:51 KingNato_ [~isildur@c-e9eee253.012-31-73746f43.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:53:20 s0ber_ [~s0ber@1-164-210-188.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:26 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:36 engblom` [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has joined #lisp 19:53:37 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:53:46 -!- antgreen [~user@dsl-207-112-126-76.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:53:59 is there a notion of type casting in lisp? or rather, as in PostgreSQL, do we find several different kinds of casting (e.g. implicit, explicit and assignment) 19:54:44 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-164-252.w109-222.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:24 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-97-39.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:55:38 EarlGray [~mitra@78.154.160.117] has joined #lisp 19:56:26 tessier_ [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 19:56:31 z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has joined #lisp 19:56:31 -!- z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:56:31 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 19:56:42 slava_ [~slava@li32-38.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:56:46 Patzy_ [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:50 dim: there's coerce, but no casting. 19:57:18 ozzloy_ [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has joined #lisp 19:57:33 There's some arithmetic type promotion, but it's not really a casting: (+ 1.0 1) --> 2.0 19:57:34 we have some coercion rules in PostgreSQL too, my understanding is that it applies only when the binary representation of the type values are identical in between two types 19:58:15 But note that (+ 1.0e20 1.0e20 1 1) can be computed as (+ (+ 1.0e20 1.0e20) (+ 1 1)) or any other way. 19:58:43 I mean cl:coerce ie. explicit coertion. 19:58:56 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:09 But eg. when you write a macro on integer or on real, there's no automatic conversion of the arguments to find a method (as it could occur in C++ for example). 19:59:46 dim: There is not really any implicit casting. If you declare something to take a float and you pass it an integer, that's an error. 19:59:57 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 19:59:57 segv-_ [~mb@dslb-094-222-250-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:18 create domain positive as integer check (value >= 0); then you can have type coercion at runtime in queries involving both integer and positive values 20:00:31 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 20:00:36 fmu^ [~^fmu@unaffiliated/fmu] has joined #lisp 20:00:39 thanks guys 20:00:51 -!- Patzy_ [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:00:55 dim: notice the difference between types and classes in CL. 20:00:59 Patzy_ [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:08 xtremefresh [~xtremefre@c-76-23-110-28.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:18 _main_ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:20 we have a discussion on PostgreSQL type system where we are rehashing some of the implicit casting rules, and other type systems are interesting here 20:01:26 dim: you cannot define a class of positive integers. And types are a random latice. Try (type-of 42) on various implementations. 20:01:34 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.188.5] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- crypto_ [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-250-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- h3x3d [~h3x3d@37.204.46.127] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- engblom [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- segmond [~segmond@adsl-108-67-101-157.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@1-164-210-188.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- KingNato [~isildur@c-e9eee253.012-31-73746f43.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- slava [~slava@li32-38.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- fmu [~^fmu@unaffiliated/fmu] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:34 -!- segv-_ is now known as segv- 20:01:36 -!- fmu^ is now known as fmu 20:01:40 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:02:03 here, ccl 64 bits, (INTEGER 0 1152921504606846975) 20:02:05 dim: ie. since (type-of 42) can be (integer 42 42), ie. since each value can have its own type, CL doesn't impose a predefined type zoo into which to cast values. 20:02:20 right 20:02:35 PostgreSQL offers a strong static type system, it's quite different 20:02:47 Allegro says fixnum, CMU and ECL say (integer 42 42) and sbcl, ccl and clisp say (integer 0 something) 20:02:58 Is (type-of 42) permitted to be (eql 42) as well? 20:03:07 strong as in "not flexible", but it's still extensible with user defined data types 20:03:12 no, type-of is restricted to not return eql specifiers, among other things. 20:03:18 So, type casting is a notion when you have type assigned to variables, but not when the type is attached to the values. 20:03:29 In sqlite, there would be no type casting. 20:03:50 Bike: well, ok, but (integer 42 42) 20:04:14 yes, i was just answering nyef. 20:04:16 pjb`: you can use declare to assign a type to a variable, but then it's implementation defined what happens if you violate that 20:04:28 Granted that helps for instances of classes and things like that. 20:04:49 -!- _main_ is now known as __main__ 20:05:03 jasom: that's not really assigning a type to a variable. More like a promise you're making to the compiler you will never bind a value of a different type to that variable. 20:06:47 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@78.154.160.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:29 segmond [~segmond@adsl-108-67-101-157.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:01 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:08:38 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 20:08:48 h3x3d [~h3x3d@37.204.46.127] has joined #lisp 20:09:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@80-95-90-249.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 20:09:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@80-95-90-249.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 20:09:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 20:13:25 -!- Faed is now known as Fade 20:13:42 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:04 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.60.217] has joined #lisp 20:16:01 -!- h3x3d [~h3x3d@37.204.46.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:18:12 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:18:21 would #'float be explicit casting? 20:18:42 -!- xtremefresh [~xtremefre@c-76-23-110-28.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:19:08 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:19:59 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@ced6.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:25:54 dim: you need to understand that there is no such thing as "casting" in common lisp 20:26:13 yeah, that was my question indeed 20:26:23 dim: cl defines a few ways to convert between data types, but it is not an extensible system like in c++, java or postgres 20:27:01 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 20:27:02 I'm not unhappy with that, it's just that I'm not going to find rich examples in CL this time :) 20:27:27 dim: that is because there is no casting in cl :) 20:27:35 if you know the RULEs rewriting system of PostgreSQL, comparing it to the lisp macro facility is a good exercise, for example 20:27:43 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@lark.vsnet.gmu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:27:57 I *had* to be sure I wasn't just missing something wrt casting in CL 20:27:58 dim: cl's type system is, well, i'd say it is not quite up to the same level as type systems of languages that pride themselves with it. 20:28:09 dim: there is no casting in cl 20:28:13 dim: repeat after me! 20:28:16 http://paste.lisp.org/display/133921 - I was running this program and managed to get correct results, however I noticed that if I tried running it with n >= 10000, I get "; Evaluation aborted on NIL." 20:28:16 yeah, SML or mythryl come to mind for type syste,s 20:28:26 maybe haskell to, I'm yet to read about it tho 20:28:28 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has joined #lisp 20:28:33 -!- gf3_ is now known as gf3 20:28:37 or c++, or java 20:28:59 xpoqz: that is because you're exceeding your stack 20:29:01 I kind of have a hate attitude toward C++, and I've suffured too much with Java, thank you 20:29:03 -!- gf3 is now known as Guest77554 20:29:10 H4ns, isn't this tail recursive? 20:29:14 xpoqz: cl gives no guarantees regarding tail call optimization. 20:29:30 xpoqz: we use imperative techniques if we need to loop. 20:29:33 -!- Guest77554 is now known as gf3_ 20:30:15 tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:46 I see, thanks :) 20:31:21 saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA0E72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:31:24 -!- gf3_ is now known as gf3 20:31:34 -!- gf3 [~gf3@205-225-142-174.rl6.org] has quit [Changing host] 20:31:34 gf3 [~gf3@oftn/member/gf3] has joined #lisp 20:32:33 I'm very new to lisp and this brings another question, why isn't this optimized into the iterative version? 20:32:47 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:33:11 I'd of course want to be able to control that 20:33:32 if I can't control it, then it's not deterministic.. 20:33:44 xpoqz: because the common lisp standard does not specify tail call optimization. 20:34:10 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 20:34:16 xpoqz: it is available in many implementations, but it cannot be relied on in portable programs. as i said, we use iteration if we want iteration, and do not simulate it with recursion. 20:34:49 okay, well that clears up a lot, thank you H4ns ;) 20:36:10 AeroNotix [~xeno@aaju75.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:36:13 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:37:56 xpoqz: most implementations will optimize tail-calls; you may need to crank up the optimization settings, or ensure that the function is compiled 20:39:21 alright, ty :) 20:39:27 For example, if you are using clisp, (compile-function 'sum-mults-aux) will do that 20:40:51 -!- ozzloy_ is now known as ozzloy 20:40:59 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has quit [Changing host] 20:40:59 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #lisp 20:41:49 nan_ [~user@46.197.116.88] has joined #lisp 20:41:54 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:42:00 clisp won't optimize mutually recursive functions 20:42:13 compile-function seems to be undefined running it from interpreter 20:42:24 er compile 20:42:30 not compile-function 20:43:26 *jasom* managed to get that wrong despite having the interpreter open having already typed it correctly there 20:43:28 okay, now that doesn't seem to exhaust the stack :) 20:44:44 h3x3d [~h3x3d@37.204.46.127] has joined #lisp 20:45:05 stassats: what kind of optimizations are adopted from other lisp implementations to optimize mutually recursive functions? 20:45:53 pnpuff: just standard tail call elimination does it. There are C compilers that do it even 20:46:55 senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:28 Yes but C compilers don't (and can't) guarantee it in any circumstance 20:47:29 -!- ski_ is now known as ski 20:47:34 pnpuff: i.e. roll back the stack before making a tail call, and use a normal branch rather than branch and link 20:48:17 jrajav: I disagree with "can't" I could certainly create a C compiler that guaranteed it in very specific circumstances 20:48:42 jasom: do you mean that optimizations come from the C compilers? 20:48:57 By can't I just meant that there's no concept of proper tail position 20:49:04 So yeah if you added that as a requirement 20:49:33 pnpuff: no I mean that certain types of tail-calls are trivial to eliminate, and some mutual recursive functions use them 20:50:17 pnpuff: and doing so is language independent for any language implementation that has a concept of a call stack 20:51:21 seems like in C, any return statement that started with a function invocation would be a candidate 20:51:26 jrajav: How about "the last operation executed in a return statement" if it is a bare function call 20:51:39 ok jasom : so is a programmer-dependent optimization... 20:52:16 a tail call is something a programmer writes :p 20:52:41 it's a programmer dependent optimization in any language 20:53:02 jasom: anyway every language use stacks I think. 20:53:24 Cobol didn't 20:53:30 Neither did Fortran 20:53:51 No recursion for you! 20:54:34 C doesn't have a stack. 20:55:08 Most languages don't have call stacks, but most langauge implementations do 20:56:22 jasom: ok. 20:57:58 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 20:58:17 -!- nan_ [~user@46.197.116.88] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:21 while on the topic of tail-calls, I've always relied on sbcl to eliminate them for e.g. state machines. Is that bad style? Should I rewrite it to use a trampoline? 21:03:35 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.3.15] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 21:09:16 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.123.18] has joined #lisp 21:09:55 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:10:01 -!- copec [copec@166-70-129-209.ip.unaen.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:11:43 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 21:14:54 ikki [~ikki@189.247.230.89] has joined #lisp 21:14:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:21:05 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 21:22:41 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:22:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:23:57 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-201.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:05 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aaju75.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:29:32 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-241-14.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:18 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@1-164-210-188.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:31:42 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:31:55 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:36:53 -!- _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 21:38:32 jasom: yes, I would say that writing non-conforming code is bad style: if your code wouldn't work the same on an other implementation, then it's not conforming, and therefore bad 21:42:57 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 21:43:12 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 21:44:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:45:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:46:18 -!- EventHorizon [~asdf@107-200-38-103.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:46:23 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-250-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 21:48:19 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 21:49:01 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: .] 21:51:19 bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:15 -!- gridaphobe [~user@128.54.33.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:54:39 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:58 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-59-142-111.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:24 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.129.102] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:09 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:17 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:58:36 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-196-222-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 22:01:31 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:44 copec [copec@166-70-129-209.ip.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 22:06:07 pozorvlak [~miles@cpc6-broo8-2-0-cust700.14-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:25 Hi everyone! 22:07:41 I'm trying to get a Common Lisp program that was last released in 2000 to compile on my machine 22:07:58 See https://github.com/pozorvlak/o-plan 22:08:22 It uses CLOS 22:08:40 clos has not changed since then. 22:08:54 and it's meant to compile with GCL, using something called micro-clos 22:08:56 which I can't find 22:09:12 Am I right in thinking that GCL doesn't support proper CLOS even now? 22:09:16 gcl is dead 22:09:22 Cool. 22:09:34 I don't think gcl ever really supported CL? 22:09:40 The mailing list had about ten messages last month, so I assumed it was on its last legs 22:09:55 I'm surprised it had that many. 22:10:04 So... how much work am I looking at to port it to, say, SBCL? 22:10:15 pozorvlak: i'd ask on the mailing list to find out where to find a gcl to compile the stuff 22:10:29 H4ns: good idea. 22:10:37 the default makefile mentions lucid and kcl. awesome. 22:10:50 Both of which are dead? 22:10:55 pozorvlak: yes :) 22:11:03 pozorvlak: depends on the app. If it was written expecting a standard CL, it might Just Work 22:11:09 or it might require minimal modification. You'll have to try. 22:11:24 I asked the authors "do you mind if I work on this?" and they said "no, it would be great to have a version that compiles again" :-) 22:11:25 the interesting bit is to get the gui to work, and that is where porting forward to something that still exists can get tricky 22:11:46 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:12:14 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.123.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:12:25 sykopomp: currently sbcl's choking on the line `#-ansi-cl (in-package :user)` 22:12:53 At least I think so, it's not giving me a line number 22:13:00 well, that's easy. Just remove every occurrence of "#-ansi-cl" 22:13:04 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 22:13:04 oh boy 22:13:07 bsamograd [~user@samograd.ca] has joined #lisp 22:13:07 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f73247e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:19 pozorvlak: it can't, #-ansi-cl is not evaluated in sbcl 22:13:25 blbef [~chatzilla@089144206148.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:29 «(unless (fboundp (find-symbol "DEFPACKAGE")) (load "support/defpackage"))» oh my. 22:13:41 m| 22:13:48 i mean, it can't be wrong, since it's not evaluated 22:14:11 stassats: unless it's messing with *features* somehow :\ 22:14:43 pozorvlak: you are likely to spend a few evenings on this :-) 22:15:05 prxq: where "a few" is defined as "less than Graham's number"? 22:15:17 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-241-14.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:27 it's actually breaking on the next line, which assumes that USER is a nickname for COMMON-LISP-USER 22:15:32 (defvar user::*oplan-version* "3.3") 22:15:44 Krystof: aha! thanks. 22:15:54 -!- bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: It's not like life has documentation] 22:16:22 try (rename-package "COMMON-LISP-USER" "COMMON-LISP-USER" '("CL-USER" "USER")) 22:16:22 Maintaining compatibility with a bunch of dead Lisp compilers is not a priority 22:16:25 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:16:30 you might need to override some package locks 22:16:50 what is this O-Plan even supposed to be? 22:16:53 gds [~user@zenit.dh.bytemark.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:17:24 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-241-14.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:17:40 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 22:17:59 stassats: it's an HTN planner 22:18:14 pozorvlak: user is called common-lisp-user (cl-user) now, and lisp is called common-lisp (cl). 22:18:30 pjb`: thanks! 22:18:41 pozorvlak: i think you can't just bash it into shape. It's best to go strategically, understanding the structure and the miniclos peculiarities. 22:19:04 -!- Xizor [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:19:26 pozorvlak: if it uses user, it means it's written in CLtL1. The differences with ANSI CL are minimal. You shouldn't have too many difficulties to make it compile on a modern CL implementation. 22:19:29 pozorvlak: otherwise you will bash that thing into a braindamaged state of which you have no sensible mental model. 22:20:04 Xizor [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:20:13 I'm getting mixed signals here :-) 22:20:22 prxq: i find hammering on a piece of ancient software to get it to run on a modern implementation to be often educative 22:20:34 sometimes, in the end, i find that the stuff is crap. 22:20:52 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA0E72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:59 like the dns server that franz once open source but then retracted because it is too crappy. it is too crappy. 22:20:59 zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has joined #lisp 22:21:10 H4ns: :-) 22:21:51 pozorvlak: have a look at: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/wang.html to give you some courage! :-) 22:21:59 So, it's written in CLtL1, so I'd at least need to forward-port it to ANSI CL 22:22:00 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 22:22:00 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:22:13 I think it depends on how much the stuff that's built on top of CLtL1 conflicts with the "new" stuff in modern CL implementations. I can imagine a world of pain if the wacky miniclos is not very clos, and you either have to get that miniclos running next to real clos, or port the miniclos-using code to real clos 22:23:00 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.230.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:23:03 Krystof: It's also meant to compile with Allegro, for which I *think* it uses real CLOS 22:23:11 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1cbf.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:23:13 ok, then you stand at least a chance 22:23:26 Did Allegro support proper CLOS as of 2000? 22:23:32 yes 22:23:47 even SBCL mostly did! 22:24:22 Krystof: cool 22:25:04 So it sounds like I'm going to have to understand the stuff that's been written on top of CLtL1 and rip it out where it conflicts with ANSI CL 22:25:13 which sounds like a reasonably big job 22:25:45 unless SBCL has a CLtL1 mode... 22:26:10 pozorvlak: there are defpackage forms without a :use clause. This is implementation dependant. Add a :use clause when one is missing. 22:26:11 pozorvlak: it is reasonably big and you'll (have to) learn a lot in the process 22:26:20 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.197] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:26:57 pozorvlak: there's a defpackage definition (perhaps it was missnig in CLtL1 or in some old implementation?) you can remove it. 22:27:07 H4ns: OK. Learning things is always good. 22:29:06 pozorvlak: well, that said in oplan.lsp, it loads the package definition only if it's not there, so it should not be a problem. 22:29:16 aaargh, it's trying to load support/simple-defsys 22:29:19 which doesn't exist 22:29:34 I'm guessing simple-defsystem is another CLTL1 hangover? 22:29:47 pozorvlak: on lucid it includes :clos, but otherwise CLOS is in CL, so again, it should just work. 22:30:08 There's just support/defsys.lsp 22:30:36 `Couldn't load "support/defsys": file does not exist.` 22:31:02 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.60.217] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 22:31:07 pozorvlak: not exactly. There were several system definition tools, as libraries. They evolved into asdf (and the future xcvb). 22:31:47 pozorvlak: for now you can keep defsys. When it'll work on modern CL, you could write an asdf system definition to load it, and then put it on quicklisp to let people easily download and install it. 22:31:52 But it's for later. 22:32:09 pjb`: makes sense, thanks 22:32:15 From the defpackage forms I'd say that it's looks good. 22:33:02 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:33:06 s/defsys/defsys.lsp - seems to work 22:33:21 No *object-type* defined. 22:34:13 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 22:34:31 pozorvlak: it depends on the implementation you're on. You can compute it automatically. 22:34:35 Right, how can I get line numbers on my error messages? 22:34:48 just grep for object-type. It's in defsys.lsp 22:34:49 i hope you won't consult #lisp about it all the way through 22:34:57 :-) 22:35:10 stassats: sorry :-) 22:35:14 open up a channel, split up work. sounds like a fun project. 22:35:32 Would people be interested? 22:35:42 seems like it. 22:36:09 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:11 pozorvlak: well, I don't have too much time now. But I've done this kind of things, so I'll be available to answer questions. 22:36:23 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 22:37:09 ikki [~ikki@187.240.223.157] has joined #lisp 22:37:16 pozorvlak: (defun implementation-object-type () (pathname-type (compile-file-pathname (merge-pathnames "TEST.LSP" (user-homedir-pathname))))) 22:37:32 You should be able to do: (defvar *object-type* (implementation-object-type)) 22:37:50 -!- Bardamu [~Bardamu@unaffiliated/bardamu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:38:23 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f73247e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:38:55 #o-plan 22:41:59 -!- morphling [~stefan@95.117.76.204] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:46:51 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-209-2-235-217.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 22:48:18 wyan [~wyan@92.243.10.205] has joined #lisp 22:49:33 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:12 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 22:51:23 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 22:52:14 kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-5f73247e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:26 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:00:07 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-209-2-235-217.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:02 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 23:01:14 -!- drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:02:42 ThomasH` [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 23:02:49 Greetings lispers 23:03:53 ThomasH`: evening¬ 23:04:47 drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has joined #lisp 23:09:38 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 23:13:08 -!- zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:13:25 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:13:45 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:14:28 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: dobranoc/good night] 23:14:38 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-209-2-235-217.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 23:16:08 francisl_ [~flavoie@199.84.162.167] has joined #lisp 23:17:35 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:18:06 -!- agumonke1 [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:18:47 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:19:28 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 23:19:53 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:28 Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:29 -!- francisl_ [~flavoie@199.84.162.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:28:52 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-5f73247e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:30:46 bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:38 kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-5f73247e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:11 -!- pozorvlak [~miles@cpc6-broo8-2-0-cust700.14-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:36:12 agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:35 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:40:13 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 23:47:11 -!- Xizor [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:45 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-97-39.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 23:48:09 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-209-2-235-217.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:09 -!- bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:56:45 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-97-39.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:57:54 -!- benny [~user@i577A1E86.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]