00:00:08 -!- asciilifeform [~asciilife@pool-108-56-236-219.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:00:27 asciilifeform [~asciilife@pool-108-56-236-219.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:01 -!- asciilifeform [~asciilife@pool-108-56-236-219.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:02:53 phf [~phf@c-98-231-137-134.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:54 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:06:34 i'm adding unit tests to an existing codebase, what's the recommended unit testing framework these days that's available in quicklisp? 00:08:06 fiveam 00:08:17 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:08:47 thanks 00:10:15 agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:45 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 00:12:03 zerowaitstate [~dwaites@ppp-70-254-44-53.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:12 -!- agumonke1 [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:14:39 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:17:00 fe[nl]ix: so, any comment on that? 00:19:21 emacs-dwim [~user@cpe-67-249-148-53.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:20:42 stassats: setting a special variable is atomic, but consing+setting is not 00:20:54 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:59 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@82.158.224.145.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:21:31 yes, but the data is immutable, you might lose some newly consed stuff, but nobody would care 00:22:14 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-138-96-107.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:25:37 H4ns: thanks for your recent additions to cl-fad -- these will be useful 00:26:01 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:26:26 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:28:03 what's the best way to get more current source to shadow the version in quicklisp (such as cl-fad)... do i just clone the git repository into quicklisp/local-projects? 00:28:33 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:29:24 robot-beethoven: that works 00:29:26 robot-beethoven, I believe that will work 00:30:05 fe[nl]ix: is setting a special variable atomic in each lisp implementation you know of, or only sbcl? 00:30:42 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:24 segmond [~segmond@adsl-108-73-165-17.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:18 sbcl, ccl, allegro, lispworks 00:32:25 probably everywhere 00:32:35 thanks! that's reassuring 00:33:43 fe[nl]ix: i updated the patch 00:34:39 -!- agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:35:59 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-67-158.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:41:29 stassats: I'll take a look at it tomorrow 00:47:54 -!- phf [~phf@c-98-231-137-134.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:46 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:23 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:53:47 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:34 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-5-146-57-23.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:58:01 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.97.6] has joined #lisp 01:07:11 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:10:19 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl5-180-53.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 01:14:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-124.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:14:26 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl5-180-53.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 01:14:57 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl5-180-53.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 01:17:56 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~bruce@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:18:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-89.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:18:28 ArmyOfBruce [~bruce@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 01:21:44 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A294.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:21 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A240.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:25:14 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:27:20 joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has joined #lisp 01:27:42 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:30:03 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-95-62.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:11 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-95-62.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:30:21 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-95-62.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:33 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:42 seangrove [~user@75-140-123-123.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:36:37 -!- impulse [~impulse@65.95.105.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:38:32 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-230-168.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:43:39 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:35 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 01:48:26 impulse [~impulse@65.95.105.140] has joined #lisp 01:50:36 -!- nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:51:25 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:53:28 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:50 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:56:38 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl5-180-53.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 02:02:01 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:06:58 kofno_ [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:08:24 -!- biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:11:24 -!- kofno_ [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:12:15 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 02:16:52 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:17:43 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 02:22:18 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:23:21 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 02:26:30 daniel [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 02:26:44 -!- daniel is now known as danielmg 02:26:50 -!- danielmg [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 02:27:45 is there a html lib which supports both reading and writing of html or say sgml? and which one is preferable? 02:32:21 daniel [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 02:32:43 -!- daniel [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 02:37:55 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:39:35 daniel [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 02:39:48 -!- daniel is now known as daniemg 02:39:54 -!- daniemg [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 02:40:02 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:40:13 mikem` [~user@cpe-174-109-084-082.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:40:24 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:40:32 -!- sellout [~Adium@pool-96-245-196-218.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:41:00 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 02:44:13 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 02:47:32 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl20-203-175.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 02:52:14 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:52:40 biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:16 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 02:54:47 minion: closure-html 02:54:47 closure-html: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/closure-html 02:54:56 gensym: ^ 02:58:16 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 02:58:40 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:58:48 is there a function like find in lisp that searches trees? 02:58:57 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-105-148.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:59:11 e.g. if I want to find x in (a b (c d (e x))) 02:59:21 without just doing it recursively on my own 02:59:23 write your own, it's easy 02:59:31 yes, I have 02:59:37 I just wondered if there is an easier way of doing it 02:59:52 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 02:59:53 since I discovered the magic of subst and it being able to do a substitution in a tree 03:00:12 maybe, i'm a lisp newbie. 1 month plus in 03:00:34 couple weeks more experience than I have, then :) 03:00:59 oh well no big deal 03:01:10 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:02:38 actually 03:02:49 it would be super ghetto but that made me think of something 03:03:07 I could just try substituting something for it, then comparing the initial and the substituted version 03:03:11 if they're different, bingo 03:04:03 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:04:33 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:05:14 benny [~user@i577A8A26.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 03:05:44 that'd be tremendously inefficient. 03:06:39 bc1: http://paste.lisp.org/+2VAN 03:07:17 that is me using FIND recursively, for fun really 03:07:23 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 03:07:41 and TEST should be :TEST .. doh 03:09:08 teggi [~teggi@113.172.42.162] has joined #lisp 03:09:10 yeah, I have it done recursively, just wondered if there was some function I didn't know about out there that would do the entire tree for me 03:09:40 thanks :) 03:10:30 bc1: A good way to look for functions is to scan the dictionary section of a relevant chapter in the hyperspec -> http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_conses.htm 03:11:09 bc1: unknown type specifier: TREE 03:11:22 Also look at the sequences page -> http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_sequen.htm 03:12:47 How to express bit-vectors in CL ? #(1 2 3) means vector, #b10101 means bits 03:13:02 so... what you just said? 03:13:31 then what is bit-vectors ? 03:14:10 vectors specialized on BIT. 03:14:24 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176494801.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:14:32 #(#b0101 #b1011) ? 03:14:38 (make-array 5 :element-type 'bit :initial-element 0) => #*00000 03:14:56 #b0101 isn't a bit. It's 5. 03:16:16 oh, it is expressed by array. 03:16:27 vectors are arrays. 03:16:39 i see now,thx 03:17:30 "A bit vector is a vector the element type of which is bit." 03:18:11 "The type vector is a subtype of type array" 03:18:14 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:18:36 then can we manipulate bits like erlang does ? 03:18:41 sw2wolf: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index.htm ;) 03:19:06 or maybe you can manipulate bits like lisp does 03:19:10 how does erlang manipulate bits? 03:19:26 lisp has been doing it since ... 03:20:01 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 03:20:11 A = <<1:32/little,1:8/little>>. 03:20:23 clhs dpb 03:20:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_dpb.htm 03:20:26 check that. 03:21:48 ok 03:22:22 if you wanted nice bitfield syntax, like I found on some erlang tutorial just now, you could probably do that by making a struct type to hold the bitfield definitions, and some reader syntax. 03:23:02 SETF and AREF ? :D 03:23:46 or you could just write some quick accessor wrappers, yeah. 03:24:36 (let ((bv (copy-seq #*11111))) (setf (aref bv 4) 0) bv) 03:25:40 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 03:25:51 READer syntax is, of course, a terrible idea and not needed .. but that is just my opinion 03:26:10 thx 03:26:11 well it's what erlang seems to have. 03:26:50 *drewc* has a few positive things to say about erlang. syntax is not one of them. 03:27:32 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:23 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:36:16 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 03:37:33 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:44 phf [~phf@c-98-231-137-134.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:19 am0c 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joined #lisp 09:05:54 and scary 09:08:32 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.3.15] has joined #lisp 09:09:15 hi *, I try to write script with sbcl, using the --script option. Basically this works, the problem is I want to use a custom core file, but when I use: `#!/usr/local/bin/sbcl --core /home/wilde/src/common-lisp/sbcl-script.core --script' I get a repl on running the script, instead of the actual script being executed. When I run `/usr/local/bin/sbcl --core /home/wilde/src/common-lisp/sbcl-script.core --script test-script.lisp' in the 09:09:15 shell, it works as expected... Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? 09:09:52 fwiw: sbcl 1.1.0 on GNU/Linux, amd64 09:14:28 -!- strobegen [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:14:47 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 09:14:58 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:15:11 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 09:15:57 -!- arrk13 [~arrakis24@dslb-178-006-216-180.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 09:17:31 xpoqz [~xpoqz@80.203.124.203] has joined #lisp 09:17:36 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:18:15 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:19:20 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 09:19:21 strz [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has joined #lisp 09:19:28 -!- strz is now known as strobegen 09:19:43 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:23:17 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[5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:26:43 jjkola_work_ [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 10:28:23 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:37 -!- ehu [~ehu@31.137.150.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:28:39 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 10:30:00 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:30:00 -!- jjkola_work_ is now known as jjkola_work 10:30:48 swilde: i'm not sure, but you may need to specify the startup function when dumping the image 10:31:02 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.3.15] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:31:06 vantage|2 [~vantage@109.131.3.15] has joined #lisp 10:31:17 swilde: (guessing) maybe when you dump your image, you don't get the same startup function that the standard image has. 10:32:17 -!- tdammers_ [~tobias@212-182-150-105.ip.telfort.nl] has left #lisp 10:38:11 swilde: if it helps, it seems that if you use buildapp to write your core+sbcl runtime into an executable file, --script works in the shebang line 10:38:54 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 10:41:30 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 10:43:46 teggi_ [~teggi@113.172.63.248] has joined #lisp 10:44:54 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-138-96-107.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:45:14 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:45:23 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.42.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:46:16 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 10:54:37 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:54:50 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:20 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-211-218.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 10:59:43 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/x-qilnhcpcynxchghx] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:00:10 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-cugegomkydqqnivd] has joined #lisp 11:01:58 bitonic [~user@host86-138-96-107.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:06:59 Joreji [~thomas@81-124.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:10:07 saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA090C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:10:24 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA090C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:11:18 saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA090C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:16:17 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:20:34 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c195e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:36 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c195e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:21:53 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c195e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:59 sw2wolf [~sw2wolf@171.216.96.235] has joined #lisp 11:28:01 swilde: it's a problem with shebang, it cannot pass more than one argument 11:29:44 stassats: really? so only the first argument is passed in argv[1] and the rest of the shebang line is, erm, ignored? 11:29:52 there's nothing SBCL can do, you have several options, a wrapper script, saving an executable image 11:30:14 or #!/bin/sh "some magic invocation" to get around it 11:30:23 H4ns: really indeed 11:30:35 that is, kind of, underwhelming 11:31:44 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.182.116] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 11:32:15 rather, seems like the arguments won't be split up 11:32:36 so whatever is following on the shebang line is passed as argv[1]? 11:33:36 H4ns: "The semantics of the optional-arg argument of an interpreter script vary across implementations. On Linux, the entire string following the interpreter name is passed as a single argument to the interpreter, and this string can include white space. However, behavior differs on some other systems. Some systems use the first white space to terminate optional-arg. On some systems, an interpreter script can have multiple arguments, 11:33:37 and white spaces in optional-arg are used to delimit the arguments." 11:34:18 so, the only sure way is to pass a single argument without whitespaces 11:34:34 stassats: thanks, that is good to know. i'll probably needing this knowledge rather soon. 11:34:43 (and that's an excerpt from execve) 11:34:46 man, that is 11:40:48 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:41:41 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:43:08 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 11:44:05 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:16 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-211-218.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:45:21 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 11:49:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:50:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:57:05 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl10-233-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 12:01:33 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.188] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:02:30 experimentally, linux does the right thing 12:02:46 in passing all arguments to the "interpreter" 12:03:07 well, it does, but not in a good way 12:04:02 what would be "in a good way"? 12:04:10 read the above discussion 12:04:36 specifically, my quote 12:05:16 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05:44 -!- sw2wolf [~sw2wolf@171.216.96.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:06:45 i read it, but this is not what my experiments suggest. I get *posix-argv* to be precisely what I would expect. Is there some additional sbcl magic behind that? 12:07:10 perhaps you didn't understand the issue 12:07:54 when you have a script with "#!/x/y a b c" and call it, it'll be called as "/x/y" "a b c" "script name" 12:08:26 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 12:08:34 user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:01 ah, it doesn't do anything to the "a b c" part. 12:09:40 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.97] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 12:10:28 ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.97] has joined #lisp 12:12:00 Daisy [~Daisy@c-3d42e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:16:14 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:16:19 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 12:16:55 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 12:19:31 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.73.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:21:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 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connection] 13:39:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-124.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:40:36 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.73.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:40:52 cheezeburger [~start@69.172.160.27] has joined #lisp 13:40:56 hi all 13:41:26 just messing around with slime. if i install a package via quicklisp, say something like (ql:quickload :thopter) 13:41:41 user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:55 is there a way from the slime repl to sorta find out what function call will start up that package? 13:42:22 quickload loads the package 13:42:22 you install systems in quicklisp, systems contain packages, sometimes named with the same name 13:42:27 (thopter ... ) will tabcomplete to a function call or two but somethign like (thopter) simply does not start up the app 13:42:44 so, write thopter: 13:42:50 oh! 13:44:45 oh there we go 13:44:50 neat. thank you kindly 13:44:54 thopter: gives you the exported functions, functions that are made to interact with other (external) pieces of code 13:45:30 cheezeburger: i also suggest you to use fuzzy-completion in slime 13:45:33 it's much better 13:45:50 by putting (setq slime-complete-symbol-function 'slime-fuzzy-complete-symbol) into .emacs 13:46:07 aha. doing so now. 13:46:19 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:46:19 LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has joined #lisp 13:47:15 daniel1 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 13:47:40 -!- daniel1 is now known as danielmg 13:47:46 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl20-203-175.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 13:47:50 -!- danielmg [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 13:47:57 The problem is that here's no "function call that will start up a package". This is a meaningless notion. 13:48:20 it's meaningful if you're not being overly pedantic 13:49:53 cheezeburger: if you want to use thopter, ql:quickload thopter makes the package code available 13:50:27 i think the old way used to be something like "(asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :system-name)" with asdf 13:51:23 or (require :system-name) 13:51:44 but don't quote me on that, i've only ever used quicklisp to load stuff 13:51:47 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl10-233-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 13:51:52 When you're loading a program named X, often there's a package named X and exported from it a function named X or MAIN. So you could run it with (X:X) or (X:MAIN). But if the program is a server, it may be: (X:START-SERVER) or things like that. The best is to check the documentation. 13:51:55 momo-reina: please, don't confuse cheezeburger 13:52:33 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:52:45 yeah i've run lispbuilder examples that way but i was getting too lazy to copy paste those lines any longer. i figured there must be a way to get the system to 'suggest' some options once a system is loaded up via quicklisp 13:52:50 -!- HG` [~HG@wprt-4db6dfd9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:52:55 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl10-233-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 13:53:05 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@220.Red-79-148-146.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:19 beaumonta [~abeaumont@220.Red-79-148-146.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:48 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont 13:53:59 asdf is a bit of a braintwist 13:54:24 cheezeburger: eddie weitz has a great post on this subject 13:54:27 http://weitz.de/packages.html 13:54:48 oh great. bookmarking. 13:58:43 momo-reina: edi weitz. 13:59:25 the man. 14:00:02 stassats: thank you for the information. i can now load up lispbuilder-sdl-examples:examplename the same way too now 14:00:21 this should make it more fun to explore quicklisp packages via slime directly 14:00:32 cheezeburger: with fuzzy, you can do l:exampl 14:00:43 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:01:18 yeah, with sanely chosen names, i often don't need to read the documentation, just use auto-completion 14:02:19 pnpuff: yah sorry bout that, definitely the man. 14:02:40 this is really nice. 14:02:47 momo-reina: I think so. 14:04:49 xach's way up there too. 14:05:21 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:06:25 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:06:40 daniel [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 14:06:52 -!- daniel is now known as danielmg 14:07:00 -!- danielmg [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 14:08:50 -!- momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573aa8.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:25 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:10:13 Inst [~SouthOfTh@unaffiliated/inst] has joined #lisp 14:11:37 swilde [~wilde@2001:470:9c7c:abc:68de:35ff:fe6c:6f46] has joined #lisp 14:12:06 stassats: Thanks a lot, that explains the problem and helps much finding a solution! 14:14:17 biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:41 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:57 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:18:32 swilde: one solution is "write your own OS in Lisp", of course 14:24:31 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:44 chris2 [~chris@vuxu.org] has joined #lisp 14:25:23 hi. i'm desperately trying to find that short port on lisp where one tries to write memberp (or something similar) and then has to add a lot of special cases bloating up the code 14:25:32 s/port/post/ 14:26:23 chris2: does not sound like a classic, idiomatic post that one needs to know. 14:26:36 its certainly 20+ years old 14:26:55 and i saw it multiple times already, but never saved it 14:27:19 thanks for the help. bbl. 14:27:21 -!- cheezeburger [~start@69.172.160.27] has left #lisp 14:27:46 mutha [~mutha@95.168.101.242] has joined #lisp 14:28:18 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:33:38 stassats: I decided that ootstraping from /bin/sh is just fine: http://paste.lisp.org/+2VB2 14:34:53 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-211-218.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:37:43 nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has joined #lisp 14:38:58 -!- segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-108-73-165-17.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:39:13 -!- segmond [~segmond@adsl-108-73-165-17.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:39:23 segmond_ [~segmond@99.102.149.81] has joined #lisp 14:39:48 -!- nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has left #lisp 14:40:19 segmond__ [~segmond@99.102.149.81] has joined #lisp 14:40:25 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:41:44 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 14:42:37 hello all 14:45:39 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:46:58 stassats: an OS written in lisp on a bare box would be interesting. why no one do it? drivers , to say, are not written in lisp... 14:49:15 -!- chris2 [~chris@vuxu.org] has left #lisp 14:50:55 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:52:19 huh? 14:52:36 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 14:54:44 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-238-044.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:56:11 stassats: "write your own OS in lisp" is not easy at all. 14:56:34 i never heard that it's easy to write them in any langauge 14:58:01 stassats: so why no one lisp OS? :) 14:58:12 no one what? 14:58:32 writes? well, there were already commercial lisp OSes 14:59:50 redo an os in lisp? sounds like making all the tools again with diamond since its harder than steel...sounds academic but wont fly much 15:00:42 stassats: there were, ok. but actually no one. 15:00:50 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:00:52 no one what? 15:01:20 it's hard to understand what you're saying without verbs 15:02:43 language has nothing do with success, openbsd or netbsd are written in C, and are not an overwhelming success 15:03:10 stassats: nailed it 15:03:32 it's all politics, conservatism, familiarity 15:05:06 -!- mutha [~mutha@95.168.101.242] has quit [Quit: mutha] 15:05:41 ykm: fluttering nails 15:05:43 so, a business idea for lisp os: make it for mobile phones, good specs, competitive prices, lots of useful apps, and then people won't care about the language 15:06:03 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:06:51 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:06:52 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@220.Red-79-148-146.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:32 and you can control the hardware and don't need to write a multitude of drivers 15:08:24 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.20.77] has joined #lisp 15:10:01 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@c-3d42e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:10:07 mutha [~mutha@95.168.101.242] has joined #lisp 15:10:23 yeah, just like apple...nowadays everybody is tripping to learn objective-c 15:10:36 stassats: it's hard to understand your flights of fancy. 15:10:53 pnpuff: oh, i heart your feelings, so sorry! 15:10:56 hurt 15:13:22 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.188.15] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 15:13:57 abeaumont [~abeaumont@220.Red-79-148-146.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:26 BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.44] has joined #lisp 15:14:28 stassats: you hurt my understanding pseudo-ability! ..do not worry :) 15:15:54 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:16:24 stassats: it is no business idea, it is retelling apple, google ways 15:16:37 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 15:17:01 asvil: so, i'm not the only one who thought about such an idea 15:18:48 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003311.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:09 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003311.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:20:04 teggi [~teggi@113.172.63.248] has joined #lisp 15:20:21 but it's getting too late for it, the phones are getting more powerful, which allows for more complex application, and it'll become like "oh, it doesn't have photoshop? i'm not using it" all over again 15:20:30 so, maybe, a lisp os for sunglasses, something like that 15:20:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 15:22:09 -!- segmond_ is now known as segmind 15:22:29 -!- segmind is now known as segmond 15:22:40 i think, it is cheaper to port existing applications 15:24:06 asvil: well, not if the ecosystems are completely different 15:25:08 Vutral [~ss@p5B2A7386.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:16 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:26:02 making completely different ecosystem more expensive than making changes in existing ecosystem 15:26:06 you don't need compiler experience to write an OS with say C and asm. you can just pick them up and go if you really understand the hardware, to write an OS in lisp, you do have to understand more than the hardware, you do need to grok LISP internals and compilers 15:26:15 -!- Vutral [~ss@p5B2A7386.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:26:15 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 15:28:03 stassats: a monolithic kernel written even in lisp needs drivers? 15:28:56 no, it only needs a cute mascot 15:29:01 stassats: an OS for sunglasses? SV VCs will love that idea, get PG to fund it :) 15:29:41 and I'm only half joking, augmented reality glasses might be pretty cool in a decade or so. 15:30:09 why not write their software in lisp? 15:30:58 pavelpenev: small amount of human resource? 15:31:18 I mean lispers 15:31:42 money would solve that 15:31:43 asvil: what inovative semi-research project has an over abundance of resourses? 15:32:11 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.73.228] has joined #lisp 15:32:33 ok stassats : so, why monolhitic kernel is nowadays so widely used? 15:32:41 money, and "You'll be building sci fi tech" job advertisement. 15:33:15 Even sci project managers think about economic goal of project 15:33:24 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003311.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:35 pnpuff: that's off-topic 15:33:40 nooo 15:33:42 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@219.143.151.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:33:43 SunMoonStar [~maks@ool-457f5814.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:59 why no one try to port a kernel in lisp? 15:34:17 pnpuff: money? 15:34:26 movitz 15:34:32 you can write a kernel in lisp but to try to port one is asking for trouble 15:34:41 Hi guys, I want to learn lisp but there's a lot of them right? How do I choose? 15:34:49 Common Lips is the only one 15:34:56 minion: please tell SunMoonStar about PCL 15:34:57 roll a die 15:34:57 SunMoonStar: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 15:34:58 SunMoonStar: common lisp 15:35:04 read that and you're set 15:35:17 What about Scheme and Clojure though? 15:35:25 learn all of them 15:35:35 Aren't they different than Practical Common Lisp? 15:35:36 nah, they're no fun 15:35:46 Practical Common Lisp is a book 15:35:52 they are all lisps, it depends on what your final goal is 15:36:02 some say they are lisps 15:36:08 if you learn any one of them good enough, you can easily learn the others with ease 15:36:28 Fade: movitz was an attempt 15:36:51 pnpuff: do you mean production-stable? 15:37:01 if so, money again:) 15:37:35 Why would anyone learn Clojure over Common Lisp? 15:37:43 asvil: money is shit. (: 15:37:44 if you want to run on JVM 15:37:47 SunMoonStar: politics 15:37:54 if you want to use lots of java libraries 15:38:03 bandwagon, hipness, etc. 15:38:10 it all depends on what you are going to do, no one can really tell you what is best for you 15:38:18 segmond: if you want JVM, use ABCL. 15:38:34 pnpuff: do not agree with you, it is fuel for programming too 15:39:09 common lisp could not be done without money 15:39:17 you can't buy hookers and booze on doing pro bono programming! 15:39:52 Is Java really as bad as Lisp lovers say it is? 15:39:53 common lisp is like a transformer hummer, it will get you there and run everything off the road if you give it enough gas, scheme is like a toyota prius, it's ugly but if you want to save gas then yeah, clojure is like the new hyundai sports cars, not a porsche but damn fun to drive 15:40:15 what makes clojure so fun? 15:40:20 sunmoonstar, what's your previous programming background? 15:40:28 SunMoonStar: its main fault that it's not lisp 15:40:32 SunMoonStar: it runs on jvm 15:40:32 stassats: why not try an exokernel to write an OS in lisp? ihih 15:40:53 pnpuff: why are you asking me that? 15:41:00 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-225-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:11 ykm but so do abcl right? so why is clojure so much more fun than using abcl? 15:41:17 ykm: 15:41:23 was I say that human resource is not important 15:41:35 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:41:45 sunmoonstar, what's your previous programming background? 15:42:10 segmond: I am learning python and I know some javascript. I know html/css 15:42:28 are you here to promote clojure? because asking "why clojure is so fun" over and over doesn't really go well here 15:42:47 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:04 stassats: talking to me? I'm not promoting anything I'm totally new to the concept of lisp and I'm here genuinely asking 15:43:10 ok, write a function in python or javascript to randomly pick one, then go with it. 15:43:34 it doesn't freaking matter, you are just learning, when you have enough time, look into all of them, and with time you will find the one you like the best 15:43:44 SunMoonStar: this channel is about Common Lisp 15:43:53 clojure is in #clojure, scheme is in #scheme 15:44:01 SunMoonStar: by what I know clojure has a better concurrency support 15:44:07 this channel is #lisp, but it has a common lisp bias 15:44:12 no 15:44:19 stassats: ya but if i go in clojure, they'll so clojure is best, and likewise for scheme. 15:44:22 this channel is only about common lisp, no bias 15:44:36 so i can't ask about lisp 1.5 in here? :-/ 15:44:39 nope 15:44:43 ouch 15:44:49 *pavelpenev* is curious what do people in #clojure and #scheme say when people ask them if they should learn common lisp 15:44:59 if you want to discuss lisps in general, go to #lispcafe 15:45:03 pavelpenev, go find out and tell us 15:45:23 h4ns, thanks, never knew of that 15:46:27 brandonz_ [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:49 If I went and learned Common Lisp, and wanted to use it to write web applications, would I get much practical use out of lisp, or would it be more useful solely because lisp taught me new programming ideas 15:47:04 depends 15:47:12 segmond: since I'm both biased, and know all three languages(more or less) I'd be doing major trolling. If I were a noob, I'd have an excuse of ignorance. 15:47:15 trying to predict the future is hard. 15:47:20 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:21 doomlord [~doomlod@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:48:02 SunMoonStar: lisp can be used for web apps, not as easy as, say python/django, where you have a lot of stuff already written for you, but definitely very fun :) 15:48:35 -!- ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.218] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:49:12 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:49:13 SunMoonStar: it is possible and fun to write web applications in lisp. but if you're interested in web applications primarily, rails, django or even php may be better choices. lisp is a general purpose language, not specialized, and there are no established web development frameworks for cl that would be comparable to rails and friends. 15:49:20 I have a strong urge to learn lisp because of paul graham articles but I should probably finish learning python to the point that I can write something useful, and then learn lisp. It makes me sad because I keep putting it off 15:49:51 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:49:56 SunMoonStar: paul graham writes well, but he also exaggerates. lisp is no substitute for being a good programmer, and a good programmer can write good programs in any language. 15:50:14 what exactly is (some . symbol)? 15:50:27 SunMoonStar: if you're interested in lisp & web, take a look at clojure 15:50:31 SunMoonStar: You are exactly in my shoes 4 years ago. Learn common lisp, and write as much code as you can, best way to learn. 15:50:41 SunMoonStar: and good programmers know a bunch of programming languages, so no matter how you put it, you need to learn a few languages. 15:50:53 HG` [~HG@78.129.156.128] has joined #lisp 15:51:10 and pavelpenev: boo at the python code on your twitter :p 15:51:31 Ralt_: OH 15:51:38 /OH/OT 15:51:51 OT? 15:51:55 off topic 15:52:19 my twitter is older than my lisp skills :) 15:52:33 SunMoonStar: c perl lisp are the hot-spots in programming. 15:52:40 (I think) 15:52:46 pnpuff: what about java? 15:52:48 so, what is (some . symbol) btw? 15:52:50 perl? 15:52:55 Ralt_: cons cell 15:52:58 isn't perl outdated? 15:53:06 SunMoonStar: good to know 15:53:11 pavelpenev: how do I work with them? car, cdr, etc? 15:53:20 c/perl/list are the hot spots?! 15:53:26 that was true in 1995 15:53:26 don't learn a language because they are "hot" 15:53:39 learn it because you need it, or for the learning experience 15:53:42 afaik I thought java was the 'hottest' 15:54:06 depends on the fields tbh 15:54:30 Ralt_: (car '(1 . 2)) gives you 1, (cdr '(1 . 2)) gives you 2. 15:54:48 The funny thing is that while I have this strong interest in programming, I've barely written a useful script to solve any problem 15:55:05 pavelpenev: k, thanks, off to write an alist-to-plist function now :-) 15:55:14 I have written a 2 line bash script to add li tags around a list 15:55:16 Ralt_: alexandria has one 15:55:27 sunmoonstar, you don't have strong interest in programming 15:55:30 Ralt_: write one anyway to learn, but just so you know one exists. 15:55:34 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55:48 segmond: oh ok, thanks for informing me 15:55:53 prove me wrong 15:55:54 yeah I guess it exists, but what's alexandria? 15:56:04 bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:08 segmond: if i did 'prove you wrong' it wouldn't be to prove you wrong 15:56:14 SunMoonStar: as I said, write as much code as you can, I was in your spot 4 years ago and spend too much time reading and depating programming ,instead of just programming. 15:56:28 well, until then i stand correct 15:56:40 pavelpenev: true 15:56:43 Ralt_: alexandria is the first google result for "common lisp alexandria" 15:56:57 Ralt_: A library with utility functions 15:56:57 paul0 [~paulo@186.222.48.210] has joined #lisp 15:57:05 ah, that pretty everybody uses? 15:57:13 it's like the jQuery of javascript? 15:57:37 Would any of you guys recommend projecteuler.net or should I find my own problems to solve 15:58:01 SunMoonStar: project euler is fine. 15:58:02 SunMoonStar: try to find a projet that you'll use. 15:58:17 project euler is meh if you don't have a math background 15:58:29 it's about algorithmics. 15:58:34 ihih 15:58:35 That's the thing I can't think of an 'own project to solve' 15:58:45 that's the most important part of programming 15:58:57 -!- HG` [~HG@78.129.156.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:59:19 SunMoonStar: IRC client, WebBrowser, P2P client, Password Manager,  16:01:14 hm 16:01:45 '((make-symbol ":var") yo) doesn't allow me to create a plist... is there a way to dynamically create a plist symbol? 16:02:17 HG` [~HG@108.177.165.21] has joined #lisp 16:02:27 (intern "VAR" :keyword) 16:02:36 zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has joined #lisp 16:02:40 -!- benny [~user@i577A86AF.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:32 benny [~user@i577A86AF.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:03:54 (setf (intern "var" :keyword) 'yo) doesn't work :/ 16:04:05 (I want (:var yo)) 16:04:18 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 16:04:29 Ralt, what lisp book are you currently reading? 16:04:35 segmond: I read PCL 16:04:49 are you done with it? 16:05:03 yep 16:05:10 should I go back to it? ;o) 16:05:24 i haven't read it, so i don't know. 16:05:39 Ralt_: every time you need it! 16:05:56 yeah... but it quickly covers INTERN 16:06:05 -!- engblom [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:06:17 and from what I read, the setf should work 16:06:57 (setq foo 'var) 16:07:05 (setf (get foo 'color) 'red) 16:07:09 Ralt_: what error wemmage do you get when you try to set a value to a keyword? 16:07:13 (symbol-plist 'var) 16:07:22 => (COLOR RED) 16:07:54 (setf intern) is undefined :| 16:08:10 setq... I have to go read what it does already 16:08:27 -!- ASau [~user@2.214.223.191] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:14 ASau [~user@2.214.223.191] has joined #lisp 16:09:33 ah, set quoted 16:09:54 Ralt_: you need to read many books. try to read "cl-cookbook" (strings) 16:10:26 -!- am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:10:46 leoncamel [~leoncamel@219.143.151.146] has joined #lisp 16:10:46 that doesn't make me want to keep going :p 16:11:05 Ralt_: try to find the answer from yourself. google is an useful tool. 16:11:10 that's tough, this is #lisp not #motivation 16:11:12 I am :) 16:11:47 segmond: motivation is better than money. 16:12:29 or, at least: #money <--- #motivation 16:12:41 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.188.15] has joined #lisp 16:12:47 pnpuff, ok 16:12:58 wait, isn't INTERN supposed to create a symbol if it doesn't exist? 16:13:13 Ralt_: yes, it is. 16:13:29 but (SETF (INTERN ...) 'value) means something different than you think. 16:13:37 probably 16:13:39 ah 16:13:47 I'm not understanding the compiler error, actually 16:14:02 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:05 it says that variable name is not a symbol... of course, I want to create it! 16:14:30 (intern ....) is not a symbol: it's a list. 16:14:31 to err is human to understand the err now that is enlightenment 16:14:39 clhs define-setf-expander 16:14:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defi_3.htm 16:14:47 Ralt_: setf is a macro -^ 16:15:26 I already have 30 tabs, reading this one too :p 16:15:28 but thanks 16:15:43 ehu: ah, got it 16:15:55 segmond: even monkeys fall from trees!!! :) 16:16:01 -!- ASau [~user@2.214.223.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:16:39 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.188.15] has quit [Client Quit] 16:16:41 Ralt, if you want (:var yo) why not '(:var yo) why are you going the long route with intern/make-symbol and setf? 16:17:29 segmond: because I have (var . yo) and I want to transform it to (:var yo) dynamically (the cons are not determined) 16:18:09 do you know to transform it line by line 16:18:23 what do you mean? 16:18:43 how would you transform (var . yo) to (:var yo) in multiple statements 16:18:52 well, no I don't, I'm trying to understand how to get (:var yo) dynamically... 16:19:11 oh, you mean with known symbols? 16:19:15 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.73.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:19:46 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:21:24 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:13 -!- mutha [~mutha@95.168.101.242] has quit [Quit: mutha] 16:26:41 So I probably just need to refactor this until it works, but if someone wants to help me debug =] http://paste.lisp.org/display/133888#1 16:27:09 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:31 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 16:30:02 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:31:30 Is there a way to get a surrounding context or a line number with an error 16:31:33 in slime/sbcl 16:33:16 segmond: this is as far as I can go since I don't know how to intern a symbol http://paste.lisp.org/display/133889 16:33:29 derekv: 'v' will jump to the function definition of the current frame. 16:33:54 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:34:04 daimrod: thanks 16:34:16 derekv: otherwise, the notion of line is not well defined for lisp sources. What's the line of the result of (cons 'print (cons 'x nil)) ? 16:34:36 -!- vantage|2 [~vantage@109.131.3.15] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:55 LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has joined #lisp 16:35:16 pjb`: yea I reccognize that. other languages basically annotate the compiled form/bytecode/binary in some way 16:35:46 I don't know any _language_ that does that. Perhaps you mean some implementation? 16:35:54 pjb`: =] 16:39:14 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:39:29 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.73.228] has joined #lisp 16:40:24 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:40:27 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:29 oh dammit i see what it is 16:40:40 i need a tatto 16:41:30 worse then an error you keep gettingby repeating the same mistake is one you somehow don't learn to reccogize. 16:43:45 Ralts 16:44:07 is this what you want, [82]> (ralts-make-plist '(var . yo)) 16:44:07 (:VAR YO) 16:44:12 -!- QuickSilver_ [~ait@cpe-72-177-30-155.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: QuickSilver_] 16:44:35 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:41 replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-226-159.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 16:44:46 yeah 16:46:04 http://paste.lisp.org/display/133890 16:46:10 thanks, looking 16:46:31 Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.183.40] has joined #lisp 16:46:55 oh, the convention for let is each one on its line? 16:47:06 you can have them in the same line 16:47:44 yeah I know, but the code style you're showing is nicer 16:48:02 segmond: oh thanks btw, I wasn't far :p 16:48:47 so this creates a new plist for each cons-cell I'd give it 16:49:05 yes 16:49:28 thanks, I'll work out from that 16:49:30 provided that your have a (symbol . whatever) 16:49:38 the car must also be a symbol 16:50:04 yep, that's alright 16:50:25 (ralts-make-plist '("var" . yo)) will not work, but (ralts-make-plist '(var . "yo")) will work 16:50:32 what i'm giving it is hunchentoot:post-parameters*, a list of this kind: ((param . val) (param2 . val2)) 16:51:03 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:51:09 and I'm trying to transform it to (:param val :param2 val2) 16:51:30 so now that I know how to transform one, it shouldn't be hard 16:51:53 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 16:51:53 -!- brandonz_ [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 16:52:18 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:19 Ralt_: alexandria:alist-plist 16:52:38 H4ns: yep, pavel already told me about it, I want to build it myself though, for the learning experience :) 16:53:01 ah. ok. 16:53:04 you should haved looked at the source for that 16:53:13 for the learning experience that is. :p 16:53:33 looking at all the solution wouldn't be fun! 16:54:29 -!- HG` [~HG@108.177.165.21] has quit [Quit: HG`] 16:54:29 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:54:57 just found out about loop for (key . value) too, that's going to be useful :-) 16:55:15 H4ns: a good programmer can write good programs in any programming langugage, but he can be happy doing so only with lisp! 16:56:25 ralt, or just use mapcan 16:56:37 hm, I know mapcar, not mapcan 16:56:41 googling 16:57:32 ah 16:57:37 indeed, this is what I'm looking for 16:57:39 [93]> (mapcan #'ralts-make-plist '((param . val) (param2 . val2) (param3 . val3))) 16:57:39 (:PARAM VAL :PARAM2 VAL2 :PARAM3 VAL3) 16:58:15 lchs mapc 16:58:27 ... damn, I thought there was a bot. 16:58:42 but yeah, I'm in here: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_mapc_.htm 16:58:47 there is, i don't know how to use it or maybe it doesn't listen to everyone 16:58:50 and it's pretty much exactly what I need 16:59:22 there's no difference between mapcon & mapcan? 16:59:45 Ralt_: keywords are symbols like any other symbol. Only they are interned in the package named "KEYWORD". 17:00:09 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:00:10 there is a difference 17:00:18 ikki [~ikki@187.193.128.94] has joined #lisp 17:00:23 So you are starting with a symbol named "PARAM" interned in a package named "X" or whatever is their home package, and you want to end with a symbol named "PARAM" interned in the package named "KEYWORD". 17:00:37 (intern (symbol-name key) "KEYWORD") would do it. 17:00:42 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:00:43 oh right! I remember this part in PCL 17:01:17 I only read it once, thinking "hey, read it all, you'll know it exists even if you don't know exactly, then on projects you'll really learn it" 17:01:22 (mapcan (lambda (entry) (list (intern (symbol-name (car entry)) "KEYWORD") (cdr entry))) '((param . val) (param2 . val2) (param3 . val3))) 17:01:44 hey! don't write my code! 17:01:51 :-) 17:02:20 segmond: I don't see it :/ they both have the following signature: function &rest lists+ => concatenated-results 17:02:32 read further down 17:03:06 mapcan and mapcon are like mapcar and maplist respectively, except that the results of applying function are combined into a list by the use of nconc rather than list. 17:05:08 nconc and list are different, (nconc 'a 'b) errs out, (list 'a 'b) doesnt. mapcon uses nconc, guess what, you will get an error 17:05:22 *** - SYMBOL-NAME: (PARAM . VAL) is not a symbol 17:05:40 ok 17:06:10 if your results are lists, instead of symbols then you do probably want to use mapcon 17:06:11 I'm reading a lot of docs to understand everything :p but your explanation is easier to understand :-) 17:06:39 (nconc '(a) '(b) '(c)) 17:06:39 (A B C) 17:06:39 [105]> (list '(a) '(b) '(c)) 17:06:39 ((A) (B) (C)) 17:07:08 i didn't know the difference, i just read it now. i'm a newbie like you too 17:07:31 kk 17:07:44 segmond: this is very bad to apply nconc to literal lists! 17:07:57 (nconc (list 'a) (list 'b) (list 'c)) is good. 17:08:15 why? nconc is destructive? 17:08:19 Yes. 17:08:20 -!- replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-226-159.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:29 i was showing what the result will look like 17:08:37 (append '(a) '(b) '(c)) is ok, but it share the literal tail. 17:08:48 he wants a flat list instead of a nested, and i was showing that 17:08:51 So (nconc (append  '(c)) (list 1 2 3)) would be bad. 17:08:53 append is irrelevant 17:09:06 we are talking about how mapcon and mapcan work 17:09:15 mapcan uses list, mapcon uses nconc 17:09:31 segmond: my point is that you should not let '(c) near nconc! 17:09:40 you have no point 17:09:43 Use (list 'c). 17:09:53 (nconc '(a) '(b) '(c)) is an horror. 17:10:06 ok pjb` 17:10:08 thanks 17:10:17 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 17:11:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:12:52 mikem` [~user@cpe-174-109-084-082.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:53 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 17:14:23 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 17:14:24 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:16:16 -!- swilde [~wilde@2001:470:9c7c:abc:68de:35ff:fe6c:6f46] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:19:49 -!- seangrove [~user@75-140-123-123.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:22:01 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:22:09 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 17:24:30 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:24:54 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 17:27:13 are there web interesting web resources about common lisp? frequently updated, I mean, blogs, news, etc? 17:28:41 googling "web resources" leads me to interesting resources, but not really the "blog" kind 17:28:50 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.148.63.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:35 Ralt_: there's planet.lisp.org 17:29:54 k, thanks 17:30:07 ralt, lots of old things out there that are really good 17:30:17 i read the google groups 17:30:43 then google search site:news.ycombinator.com and site:reddit.com 17:31:56 that should give me some reading 17:32:05 replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-226-159.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 17:33:19 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.148.63.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:34:14 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.153.37.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:18 segmond: finding good stuff about lisp on c.c.l, and HN, requires one to dig gold dust out of manure mountains. 17:35:56 but the Naggum archive is pretty good: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/ 17:37:31 what is c.c.l? 17:37:50 comp.lang.lisp 17:37:58 i misspelled it 17:37:59 :) 17:39:38 HG` [~HG@wprt-4db6dfd9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:38 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:39:55 -!- moai [~m@141.70.23.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:40:01 loaded quicklisp.lisp into clisp, and (ql:quickload "restas") yields "no package found named 'QL') 17:40:05 -!- HG` [~HG@wprt-4db6dfd9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:40:46 jaimef: you need to follow the instructions 17:43:10 H4ns: yeah 17:43:54 riverc4c [~grive@pool-71-183-214-254.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:51 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 17:45:23 H4ns: yeah clisp clearly requires different steps than sbcl 17:45:59 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 17:49:30 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 17:51:54 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:23 homie [~homie@94.122.241.159] has joined #lisp 17:55:35 comp.lang.lisp isn't on gmane? :-( 17:55:58 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.48.209] has joined #lisp 17:56:58 -!- homie [~homie@94.122.241.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:57:28 carbocation [~carbocati@li44-77.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:57:36 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 17:57:46 it's not a mailing list, so why would it be? 17:58:42 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 17:59:01 -!- wuehli [~wuehlmaus@freeshell.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:59:13 yeah. so I would need to find a free nntp provider I guess 17:59:54 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Client Quit] 18:00:06 Spam`Bot [~sagsang@static.134.225.9.5.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 18:00:45 daniel1 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 18:01:02 -!- daniel1 is now known as danielmg 18:01:07 -!- danielmg [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 18:02:05 khanh [~khanh@222.253.106.251] has joined #lisp 18:04:08 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:05:06 dim: http://www.eternal-september.org/ is one 18:05:18 thanks! 18:05:25 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:06:32 emacs-dwim [~user@cpe-67-241-1-145.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:01 you can use google to read comp.lang.lisp for free 18:07:10 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:07:55 -!- replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-226-159.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:09 I much prefer using gnus, thanks 18:08:11 daniel1 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 18:08:21 and I don't log in to google services (mostly) 18:08:58 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 18:09:24 -!- daniel1 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has quit [Client Quit] 18:11:16 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:12:02 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:12:34 -!- zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:14:14 replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-226-159.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 18:14:41 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:14:58 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:15:06 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:15:13 -!- Spam`Bot [~sagsang@static.134.225.9.5.clients.your-server.de] has quit [] 18:15:37 homie [~homie@94.122.241.159] has joined #lisp 18:15:50 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-41-14.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15:54 -!- khanh [~khanh@222.253.106.251] has left #lisp 18:16:32 -!- bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:18:05 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:18:28 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.128.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:19:40 hm, weird, I get keywords like :|some| instead of :SOME when using INTERN, is that normal? 18:20:08 Ralt_: yeah, you have to upcase the symbol name you're interning first 18:21:11 so before interning, I upcase it? 18:21:42 Yes 18:22:56 k, thanks 18:23:38 Bike: perfect! thanks :) 18:25:27 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:26:51 Ralt_: i often use read-from-string with a correct package binding. that will work in modern-mode too afaict. 18:27:25 -!- replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-226-159.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:23 googling 18:29:32 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:30:18 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 18:30:42 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 18:30:48 TeMPOraL [~user@31-187-1-188.home.aster.pl] has joined #lisp 18:30:52 hi 18:30:59 nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has joined #lisp 18:31:05 Ralt, do you know what | stands for in a string? 18:31:18 nope 18:31:52 segmond: googling "lisp string pipe" doesn't help much unfortunately 18:31:57 try this in your REPL 18:32:21 type in the following symbols 'abcd '|abcd| '|a|bcd '|a|bc|d| 18:32:28 btw segmond: https://github.com/Ralt/ralt-site/blob/master/ralt-site.lisp#L22 18:32:30 final code 18:32:38 I'm having a big trouble finding syntax for cl-ppcre to insert a capture group; I want to do something like: (cl-ppcre:regex-replace "src/([A-Za-z]*)/.*" (namestring pathname) "src/templates/${1}\.html") to have it insert the captured string into the place of ${1} 18:32:44 but I can't find any example of it over the net 18:32:54 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:33:04 -!- Inst [~SouthOfTh@unaffiliated/inst] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:33:46 segmond: the pipe puts the letter in lowercase and puts the whole symbol between pipes 18:33:48 Ralt_: you can also use pipes to create space delimited variable names 18:33:51 what's the purpose exactly? 18:34:07 Indecipherable: oh, that's like the \ of unix filenames? 18:34:07 ralt, what happens to the letters between the pipes? 18:34:14 trigen_ [~MSX@devvers.tweaknet.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:17 segmond: lowercased 18:34:35 TeMPOraL: \\1 18:34:51 yup 18:35:02 you get distinct case sensitive symbol 18:35:09 E.g (setf |i like pie!| 10) 18:35:22 Bike: big thanks! :) 18:35:24 it worke 18:35:24 d 18:35:43 ah, k 18:35:47 'foo is always equal to FOO right? but (eq 'foo and '|foo|) returns nil because 'foo is really FOO and |foo| is foo 18:36:08 i keep seeing this, they say common lisp is large, is it because the number of functions in standard library? 18:36:27 -!- trigen [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fb:881:3543:2bd6:7949] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:36:43 that's why when it's in lower case it's surrounded by | | 18:36:53 but when you have it all in uppercase, it leaves it as is. 18:37:17 nan_: it has a large standard, yes 18:37:44 segmond: thanks 18:37:46 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 18:38:03 And everything is thrown into one namespace (package) 18:38:57 Though you won't necessarily need every single feature defined :) 18:39:01 sure, you can try it with setq to see too. (setq |foo| 5) (setq foo 20) you have 2 different foo symbols, but it can get very confusing fast, so lisp defaults everything to uppercase to make life easier for everyone 18:39:31 yeah I knew it defaults to uppercase, didn't know I could still have it lowercase though 18:39:43 yeah, but please don't. :D 18:40:02 that was unvoluntary! 18:41:14 Indecipherable: i see now thanks, single namespace is i agree not the best yet having many functions that solve different problem is a great thing, then i should take the "large" part as a compliment! 18:41:45 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:23 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:30 -!- homie [~homie@94.122.241.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:45:14 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:41 lufu [~user@5.254.129.146] has joined #lisp 18:46:30 kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:46 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:29 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.73.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:50:22 LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has joined #lisp 18:50:57 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 18:52:46 homie [~homie@94.122.241.159] has joined #lisp 18:54:07 myx [~myx@pppoe-196-222-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:54:46 -!- mikem` [~user@cpe-174-109-084-082.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:55:48 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:56:42 -!- homie [~homie@94.122.241.159] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:57:28 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:57:30 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 18:58:56 homie [~homie@94.122.241.159] has joined #lisp 19:01:01 saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA1039.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:11 I have some catchup to do, it seems 15733: nntp+news.eternal-september.org:comp.lang.lisp :) 19:01:18 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:03:32 threading on netbsd still does not allow tasks to background in the repl 19:05:33 clisp/sbcl both hang when running restas/hunchentoot. is there a CL that only does green threads? 19:05:43 jaimef: cmucl 19:05:58 thx 19:06:11 jaimef: i'm not sure if the freebsd executable works well on netbsd, though 19:06:24 jaimef: and if you believe that you could try recompiling, abandon that thought. 19:06:28 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:06:28 yeah I remember this as a barrier last time 19:06:42 well these all built from pkgsrc 19:06:58 not cmucl 19:07:04 yeah 19:07:08 cmucl cannot be build in an automated fashion 19:07:14 cannot as in cannot. 19:07:15 :D 19:07:16 ahh 19:07:30 ok will take a look at freebsd compat 19:07:36 builT, of course 19:08:08 time to get on a real os 19:08:11 thx 19:10:39 Daditos [~kvirc@unaffiliated/daditos] has joined #lisp 19:14:35 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:15:39 urandom__ [~user@p548A3B83.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:57 npoektop [~npoektop@83.149.8.217] has joined #lisp 19:16:07 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@83.149.8.217] has left #lisp 19:17:14 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 19:19:31 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-131-106.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:34 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:21:46 kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:07 QuickSilver_ [~ait@cpe-72-177-30-155.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:22:39 zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has joined #lisp 19:23:40 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.63.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:55 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:28:59 blbef [~chatzilla@089144206148.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:26 -!- paul0 [~paulo@186.222.48.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:35:22 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 19:37:22 This is totally wrong: <19:33:46> segmond: the pipe puts the letter in lowercase and puts the whole symbol between pipes 19:38:12 Try for example: (symbol-name '|HELLO|) 19:40:05 I think he understands that the symbol's between the pipe take whatever case they appear in, because i told him to try '|a|bcd '|a|bc|d| 19:40:23 you end up with |aBCD| |aBCd| and those are not equal 19:40:42 or try: (loop for rtc in '(:preserve :invert :downcase :upcase) do (setf (readtable-case *readtable*) rtc) collect (read-from-string "(Hello hello HELLO |HellO|)")) 19:40:49 minion: memo for drewc: thanks, i'll have a look at it! 19:40:49 Remembered. I'll tell drewc when he/she/it next speaks. 19:41:44 the entire exercise was for him to understand why (intern "foo") returns |foo| instead of foo whereas (intern "FOO") returns FOO 19:42:12 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003311.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:42:26 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 19:43:07 nonetheless, saying that | puts the letters in lowercase is entirely wrong. 19:43:26 yep, I now know it just keeps the case :) 19:43:34 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:44:19 (eq 'HE '|HE|) -> T 19:45:09 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:01 not always. 19:46:32 (|SETF| (|READTABLE-CASE| |*READTABLE*|) :|INVERT|) (eq 'HE '|HE|) --> NIL 19:48:59 yeah 19:49:13 and it's always true when (defun eq (&rest r) t) 19:50:10 -!- yeltzooo [~yeltzooo@ec2-50-18-131-205.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:17 You cannot do that, unless you first do (shadow 'eq). 19:50:38 well, you are pretty smart, i know i don't have to write all the steps out for you pjb` 19:50:39 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51:17 yeltzooo [~yeltzooo@ec2-54-241-122-161.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 19:51:21 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:36 -!- SunMoonStar [~maks@ool-457f5814.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:51:44 point being, anything can be anything in lisp given enough pre conditions, i don't see why you are going into the *readtable*, it's not relevant to the current discussion. 19:52:50 When you are discussing the reader, it's relevant. 19:53:00 we were not, you are the one who dragged it in 19:53:33 how || and case work is part of the reader. 19:54:01 and so is ( and ) 19:54:02 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 19:54:24 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:33 we were not talking about the reader when he had example of '(var . yo) and '(:var yo) yet ( ) ' and : are all special to the reader, so why does the reader come into discussion when | comes into it? 19:55:46 copec [copec@166-70-129-209.ip.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 19:56:13 Because | is interpreted by the reader. 19:56:27 replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-226-159.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 19:56:32 and (, ), `, and : are likewise 19:56:41 Because (, ), ', and : can all easily be brushed off as "syntax"? 19:56:42 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:56:58 then why shouldn't | be syntax 19:57:02 segmond: but you weren't discussing (, ) ` and :, but |. 19:57:08 ngz [~user@118.97.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:15 we were discussion (intern "foo") 19:57:25 which returns |foo| 19:57:25 I quoted what was wrong. 19:57:33 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:45 and the discussion was to understand why foo is enclosed in | 19:57:48 *sighs* 19:58:05 ok, i've been totally unproductive today, i'm gone. 19:59:26 foo is enclosed in | not to downcase it, but to preserve its case! 20:00:18 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:49 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:50 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:23 hiato [~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za] has joined #lisp 20:03:45 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:14 Guest79515 [~toni_@87.13.247.50] has joined #lisp 20:04:25 hi 20:04:26 drewc [~user@74.198.150.249] has joined #lisp 20:04:37 I'm on linux 20:04:39 (debian) 20:04:41 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 20:04:50 and I was trying clisp 20:05:34 I tried to: clisp hello.lisp, it works, but I don't see any executable file? 20:05:45 -!- replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-226-159.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:57 is it normal? code is interpreted instead of being compiled ?? 20:05:57 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:06:11 *drewc* got here just in time to say 'Why clisp instead of SBCL, CCL, ABCL, Allegro, Lispworks or ECL?" 20:06:50 inkjetunito [~oidf12@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has joined #lisp 20:06:51 Guest79515: clisp interprets by default iirc, but in any case compiling and making an executable file are not the same thing 20:06:58 Guest79515: there is not executble file made when you simply load in a lisp file 20:06:59 drewc, memo from gensym: thanks, i'll have a look at it! 20:07:50 it it possibile to make an executable file like those made by gcc? 20:07:57 Guest79515: and if it compiles or interprets by default is of no concern to you at this point and will not effect you using lisp 20:08:37 it is possible to compile with lisp, it's implementation dependent. 20:08:45 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:55 "no, gcc is a C compiler." "Yes, of course you can make an executable' 20:09:08 LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has joined #lisp 20:09:10 minion: compile 20:09:11 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``compile''. 20:09:12 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:09:12 how to? with clisp? 20:09:25 guest, some are interpreted, some generate bytecode, some generate native code 20:09:41 but seeing as you are just learning lisp, why not just focus on the learning until you are ready 20:09:43 minion: compile-file? 20:09:43 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``compile-file''. 20:10:17 this is worse than premature optimization... 20:10:19 clhs compile-file 20:10:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cmp_fi.htm 20:10:24 clhs compile 20:10:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cmp.htm 20:10:25 ahh there ... 20:11:02 Guest79515: http://www.clisp.org/impnotes/image.html read the docs; however you should just use a repl to learn 20:11:06 segmond: implementation dependent? COMPILE and COMPILE-FILE are in ANSI spec! :) 20:12:39 is :COMPILE-TOPLEVEL a Common Lisp stage, and different from EVAL and LOAD? 20:12:53 clhs eval-when 20:12:53 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_eval_w.htm 20:13:11 Guest79515: some nit-picking: gcc doesn't make executables. It's ld that makes them 20:13:45 I mean: is it possible to get a file that can run without having clisp installed? 20:14:01 Yes and no. 20:14:08 it seems a bit weird 20:14:09 see: ext:saveinitmem 20:14:12 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:14:19 guest, is it possible to run a java program without java being installed? 20:14:31 But this will embed clisp in the saved executable image ( = the file that can run ). 20:14:48 is it possible to run python or ruby code without python installed? 20:14:58 Guest79515: http://www.clisp.org/impnotes/faq.html#faq-delivery <-- maybe you should start reading about clisp? 20:14:58 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:15:02 it's possible to run ruby code without python installed 20:15:02 i don't see people asking these questions, but once it comes to lisp they want one standalone file 20:15:02 or is it possible to run C programs without libc installed? 20:15:21 krystop, i forgot my "or ruby" 20:15:21 lol 20:15:29 in C the build time dependencies and the run time dependencies are clearly different, tho 20:15:51 segmond: that's because there are a lot of CL implementations, and distributors don't install all of them on their systems, so application deployment must bring their implementation along. 20:15:52 you don't have to ship the development platform when deploying your application, or distributing it 20:16:00 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:07 (it's not such an unreasonable question: "why, if I compile my code, do I still need to have a compiler installed to run it?") 20:16:16 without your /usr/lib, your gcc programs will break unless you statically link all the libraries inside your code and end up with one big executable 20:16:25 Zeta-C ? 20:16:26 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:28 segmond: exactly. 20:16:30 but it's true that most people who ask it aren't aware of the distinction between a compiler, a linker, and a runtime system 20:16:40 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl10-233-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:16:44 segmond: without /usr/lib/libecl.so, your CL programs compiled with ecl will break too. 20:17:06 any good clisp tutorials with exercises around? or just good starter exercises.. 20:17:18 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:17:29 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 20:17:30 xpoqz: why do you want to use clisp specifically? 20:17:46 not quite sure drewc :) that's what I started on 20:17:51 xpoqz, common lisp - a gentle introduction to symbolic computation, common lisp - an interactive approach, google for those, grab the pdfs, do all the exercises 20:17:52 xpoqz: clisp comes with its own tutorial. Have you read it? 20:18:22 okay cool 20:18:26 clisp-2.49/doc/LISP-tutorial.txt 20:18:31 minion: sbcl 20:18:31 sbcl: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/sbcl 20:18:43 ihih 20:18:43 :-) 20:19:03 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:19 drewc: why not clisp? 20:19:23 and what about debugging a clisp file ? 20:19:28 is there something like gdb? 20:19:33 Guest79515: yes. 20:19:34 xpoqz: if you are on linux or mac or even windows, sbcl is a good choice, 20:19:39 guest 20:19:54 something better than gdb 20:19:54 See: http://www.cliki.net/TutorialClispDebugger 20:19:58 not like gdb, but better 20:20:01 I'm on linux, hold on gotta google that 20:20:31 xpoqz: if you're on a Mac and want to write Cocoa applications, ccl might be a better choice. 20:21:04 xpoqz: clisp is a good lisp implementation. 20:21:14 drewc: it doesn't matter much what implementations newbie stumble upon first. They're all good to learn the language. 20:21:19 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:40 pnpuff: because there are significantly better implementations that do not have a license? 20:21:45 -!- bxx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 20:21:50 tbh I couldn't be arsed to look too much about the different implementations, I just dived straight into clisp 20:22:01 drewc: GPL and even better, AGPL are great licenses. 20:22:02 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:22:10 clisp is a good first implementation to play with 20:22:19 And learning with such licensed an implementation doesn't prevent you to write proprietary code with another imlpementation! 20:22:24 I'll become more aware of the implementations and probably able to pick up any implementation I want later I guess 20:22:27 pjb`: we know of your opinion on that :) 20:22:30 i like clisp, i use clisp mostly, when i get to building worthwhile stuff, i would switch to sbcl 20:22:40 drewc: but I've seen proprietary licenses that would want to prevent you to use the same language in another settign!!! 20:22:41 pjb`: true, true 20:23:53 pjb`: I do not like capitalist or communist (right or left?) licenses at all myself ... I prefer the no clause BSD or MIT or WTF personally :) 20:24:40 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:25:19 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 20:25:21 *drewc* has been using this as his 'primary' open source license: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTFPL 20:26:16 *dim* too 20:26:59 BSD or MIT are communist licenses: you need to belong to the nomenklatura, paid by the state, to be able to work on software that belongs already to the people. 20:27:15 you might want to see the ISC licence too, it's a simpler edition of the BSD and MIT licences, I'm considering ISC rather WTFPL for next projects (because I got bug reports about the licence terms being offensive, you know) 20:27:42 pjb`: you're not talking about the 2 clauses BSD licence here, apparently 20:27:59 kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:03 the 3 and 4 clauses BSD are better forgotten about, and I didn't see any new project using them in years 20:28:31 dim: no, I'm talking about how most software developed under BSD or MIT are financed. 20:28:52 or perhaps were financed, now a lot of people out of academia have been brainwashed into using them too. 20:29:11 can you take this crap elsewhere? thank you 20:29:12 I mainly work on PostgreSQL, which licence is a departure from BSD, and has not been having that problem in almost 2 decades now 20:30:09 H4ns: I would think that how you licence your software and which licence you agree to depend on encompass any specific programming language channel, it's areally important topic and a very effective way to pick an implementation for lots of people 20:30:52 dim: no, it is basically just blah blah. 20:31:01 I too, but I don't think it matters at all for newbies. 20:31:15 *drewc* actually agrees with H4ns on this 20:31:28 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 20:31:48 It could matter only when you're about to distribute your application. And then you can easily switch to another implementation, if you've written your code in conforming CL. 20:32:05 *drewc* apologizes for bringing it 'up' in the first place 20:32:11 H4ns: I have to disagree. 20:32:56 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:33:03 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl10-233-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 20:33:53 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl10-233-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:34:00 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl10-233-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 20:34:07 in every tutorial i know they explain `, pair as.... `stops evaluation and , evaluates, and i have trouble with this explanation... i mean, isn't it actually substitution? 20:35:36 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:34 nan_: clhs describes it as templating. 20:36:35 nan_: what do you mean by "isn't it actually substitution"? 20:36:37 First, it's implementation dependant what the reader macro ` reads into. 20:36:46 Second, it's specified what it's behavior should be. 20:36:54 no .. 'subsitution' is a READ or MACROEXPAND time thing, and not what backquote does at all... In fact, implementation dependant what really happens 20:37:15 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl10-233-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:37:46 In `(1 + 2 = ,(+ 1 2)) (+ 1 2) is evaluated, not merely substituted. 20:38:43 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 20:38:44 nan_: give: '`(1 + 2 = ,(+ 1 2)) to your REPL to see what your implementation thinks of ` and ,. 20:38:57 pjb: ok doing it now 20:39:23 kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:01 But given that the evaluation doesn't occur at read-time, you may say "substituted at read-time" if you want. 20:40:42 But it's substituted into an expression that builds the result, not into a quoted object. 20:40:42 actually i got it now, it is again about variables isn't it, variables evaluates to their value so for a variable it is just substution 20:42:13 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:42:24 clhs backquote 20:42:24 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for backquote. 20:42:38 clhs ` 20:42:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 20:42:39 use l1sp.org 20:42:39 clhs 2.4.6 20:42:39 Backquote: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 20:43:04 lisperati has a nice picture to explain back quotes 20:43:34 i understand now, the core of my misunderstandings was the variable evalution, as todays and yesterdays examples clearly stated 20:43:34 http://www.lisperati.com/looking.html, search "flip flop" 20:44:08 zerowaitstate [~dwaites@ppp-70-254-44-53.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:33 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl10-233-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 20:45:51 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:46:11 pjb`: is there a bot that gives me URLs in IRC for l1sp.org? I really should start using it more, and I do /msg specbot and minion a fair bit ... 20:46:20 *drewc* looks in to specbot 20:46:37 drewc: not AFAIK, but specbot could be extended to include l1sp.org code. 20:47:16 *drewc* thinks it must .... and thinks that he knows where it runs .... 20:48:38 *nan_* (dotimes (i 100) (format t "variables evaluate to their values, get it already!")) 20:48:58 nan_: you missed a ~% 20:49:54 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:50:25 duh and didnt use i 20:50:59 *zophy* twirls his hair and sez: lisp is hard ! 20:51:48 zophy: it is worth learning, though. i can assure you :) 20:52:03 nan_: you can also just write: (format t "~100{variables evaluate to their values, get it already!~%~}" '(a)) 20:52:18 dim` [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 20:52:49 mstevens_ [~mstevens@2001:ba8:1f1:f1ef::3] has joined #lisp 20:52:53 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:52:53 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 20:52:53 -!- NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jhgfcesbagriygiu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:52:53 -!- sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:52:53 -!- dim` is now known as dim 20:52:55 -!- mstevens_ is now known as mstevens 20:52:58 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:53:07 Does someone use clisp within emacs? 20:53:23 Of course. 20:53:34 zophy: lisp is like "the conquest of paradise" :) 20:53:41 (loop :repeat 100 :do (print "variables eval ...")) 20:53:52 pjb`: Do you run it in ansi-term? 20:54:01 lufu: no, in slime. 20:54:10 minion SLIME 20:54:10 Or else in inferior-lisp. 20:54:12 NimeshNeema_ [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fuzeejhylplevdmo] has joined #lisp 20:54:27 But nowadays slime supports it well enough. 20:54:35 pjb`: now i didn't know about format repeat *cheers 20:55:01 nan_: well, it's strange, since ~{ still needs a non-empty list as input 20:55:05 sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 20:55:09 Well, I guess I really have to set up slime then. 20:55:09 lufu: to run lisp in a vt try linedit. 20:55:18 clhs format 20:55:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_format.htm 20:55:28 lufu: or at least rlwrap. 20:55:29 sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 20:55:34 pnpuff: clisp doesn't need linedit, since it includes readline already! 20:55:37 pnpuff: Thanks for the hints. 20:55:39 That's even for that that it is GPL. 20:56:10 lufu: but clisp do not require linedit,as say pjb` 20:56:26 nan_: all the FORMAT syntax is written down in the CLHS, and it will only take 20 years to learn everything that is needed! ;) 20:56:31 emacs + cl + slime = total awesomeness 20:56:45 lufu: to setup slime, simplest way is to install quicklisp then use it to install slime with quicklisp-slime-helper, follow the instructions 20:57:12 drewc: yes in pcl there was many and peter s. says there are more! 20:58:21 drewc: we should make a cheatsheet for both loop and format 20:58:27 lufu: is hard to work without slime but not impossible. you have to do many things from yourself. 20:59:07 nan_: http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/ 20:59:27 pjb: yes i couldn't make anything out of that '(a) 20:59:44 nan_: They exist! CLHS loop and CLHS format are cheatsheets that the implementations have to follow 21:00:30 dim: I will check that out. 21:01:14 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:01:35 pnpuff: Well, I just starting with Lisp, so I guess I want to go for the comfort of Slime. 21:02:40 kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:10 deckeraa [~aaron@gateway/tor-sasl/deckeraa] has joined #lisp 21:05:46 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Quit: upgrading OS] 21:06:23 Cool, there's this fset library, thit fits what I'm doing better. 21:06:35 *drewc* was a VIM user is 2003, A viper-mode user in 2004, a pure emacs user by 2005. Can you guess which year I started using SLIME? 21:06:45 Unbelievable! There are libraries in lisp! 21:07:14 Thit is a new word, you can use it anywhere that you could either "it" or "this". 21:07:26 pjb`: really? 21:07:30 wow. 21:07:31 where? 21:07:38 what do they do? 21:07:40 in quicklisp? 21:07:50 fset manages sets, I'd guess. 21:07:50 pjb`: quicklisp? 21:07:53 what's that? 21:08:06 http://www.quicklisp.org/ 21:08:09 Yes I guess I will probably use the qucklisp now. 21:08:28 sets? we mean chains of CONSes right? 21:09:12 "FSet is a functional set-theoretic collections library." 21:09:13 fsets manages sets, maps 21:09:24 and collections 21:09:30 oh 21:09:31 the name is misguiding 21:09:35 a new lib ? 21:09:42 it is not new 21:09:50 *drewc* laughs out loud 21:10:24 drewc: what's that funny? 21:11:32 doesn't lil (or whatever it was it turned into) have a lot of the FSet datastructures? 21:11:36 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:11:39 huh? wow. some zach guy started collecting libraries? Why? I mean, they were all there on the web already?! 21:11:50 antonv: everything so far, but the reason I am lol'ing is everything that came after derekv's library fset comment 21:12:22 fset seems to be a good library, althoug I haven't used it (yet) 21:12:39 sykopomp: yes, and more, and fset itself can easily be 'ported' over to 's 21:12:51 I was thinking I might like a hashmap with a nondestructive insert (returns a copy containing the new key/value) 21:12:56 what happened to the good old afternoon of collecting dependencies? That used to be the fun of programming CL? Is that gone now? 21:12:56 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-131-106.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has left #lisp 21:13:06 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-131-106.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:47 is there a log of #lisp anywhere on the web? 21:13:51 ehu: I am tempted to see if I can find my old 'build-dep' git repo... it was fun! 21:13:57 god I hope not. 21:14:00 minion: logs? 21:14:00 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 21:14:17 drewc: there probably wasn't slimv back then :) 21:14:18 derekv: everything you say can and will be used against you 21:14:23 (about vim/emacs) 21:14:43 if not now, we store it on the interwebs for your next life. 21:15:25 Ralt_: no .. thank g-d there wasn't, or I might still be usings UNIX as my IDE rather then now, where emacs is my operating system. 21:15:45 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:00 drewc: lol 21:16:05 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:17:13 drewc : it's a matter of tastes: emacs is only an opinable choice. 21:18:19 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:18:24 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:18:27 ops questionable choisce... 21:18:41 mmm choice. 21:19:16 Ralt: vim ar emacs are only tools ... 21:19:18 pnpuff: well, I tried and did not like hemlock, and climacs is not quite ready... Is there another lisp based editor with macros that has a SLIME implementation? 21:19:46 it would be nice if climacs were getting closer to ready... 21:19:47 "is not quite ready" 21:19:49 drewc: none. 21:19:58 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 21:20:04 On the other hand, if nobody use Hemlock, it won't be made better. 21:20:18 isn't the mcl ide backed by swank now? 21:20:29 MCLIDE? 21:20:38 pjb`: who wants to hack on an ancient editor like hemlock? 21:20:38 or hemlock in ccl? 21:20:44 no, the mcl ide 21:20:48 GNU emacs is older. 21:20:57 pjb`: was a rhetorical queestion :) 21:21:20 pjb`: it is older, but it has the clear advantage of having been usable for a long time, which is not quite the case for hemlock 21:21:24 pjb`: well, these days, people who 'like' elisp are trying to make elisp more 'common' ... so, I figure that emacs is the future. license be damned :) 21:21:27 couldn't get it to work, hemlock, never..... 21:21:42 even mcclim was a toy against that..... 21:21:51 err is 21:22:00 i'm still waiting for the quartz backend for mcclim so that I can get hi-res fonts 21:22:11 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:22:25 what's quartz ? 21:22:35 slyrus: waiting implies that you're expecting it to end, some day? 21:22:40 the wait, i mean 21:22:42 well i already have hi res fonts..... 21:22:44 replore [~replore@FL1-118-109-226-159.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 21:22:44 homie: MacOXS Graphic system. 21:22:47 apple's drawing library 21:22:52 H4ns: hah! 21:22:55 ah ok 21:23:16 anyone got a link to the sources of "cello"? it sounds impressive i'd like to take a look but no links i've found so far working 21:23:17 "someone" "should" just start writing an editor in cl. 21:23:22 mcclim::truetype gives them to me.... 21:23:47 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.129.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:59 H4ns: A remember liking LiCE and using it for at least a few days ... 21:24:04 there's on named freetype too.... 21:24:09 nan_: forget the "sounds impressive" part of it. 21:24:16 one* 21:25:02 H4ns: how so? 21:25:08 the set of fonts i can use is limited tho.... 21:25:14 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:32 nan_: it sounds impressive, yet nobody uses it. 21:26:09 nan_: if you like to be impressed without actually wanting to look at something that is very usable, look at clim :) 21:27:31 -!- replore [~replore@FL1-118-109-226-159.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:28:24 npoektop [~npoektop@83.149.9.155] has joined #lisp 21:28:42 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@83.149.9.155] has quit [Client Quit] 21:29:08 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:29:24 H4ns: should that someone maybe pick climacs up where it was left off? (Being a base to build upon already written in cl) 21:29:35 -!- dodo_ [~dodo@199.119.201.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:29:51 ehu: i think the major issue with climacs is clim, or mcclim for that matter 21:30:10 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 21:30:50 The only major issue with CLIM or MCCLIM is that nobody write backends for them on modern looking and feeling GUI frameworks. 21:31:02 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-221.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:52 pjb`: the main reason Rudi Schlatte implemented AMOP on ABCL is because he wanted to play with mcclim :-0 21:31:56 pjb`: i think the major issue with clim is that it does not provide for the facilities and abstractions that people would need to create GUIs that match today's users expectations. 21:33:01 pjb`: i quite like clim, but when i tried to write a real-time control gui with it, i found it to be not at all helpful. it is a system for interactive, user-controlled programs, and does not have any model of concurrency. 21:33:12 in that, it is very (common) lispy 21:33:26 that fits better with my limited experience. 21:33:54 i'm not saying that other gui toolkits are better from a theoretical perspective, but they have a much longer history of actually dealing with their lack of a theoretical model than clim. 21:33:55 H4ns: I don't know. I read this afternoon the note that tried to motivate Genera users to switch from DW to CLIM. It sounded like it had all that is needed. 21:34:30 H4ns: I mean, what abstraction could they have, using Objective-C, C#, Java or C++ to write their GUIs??? 21:35:04 pjb`: you may find it hard to believe, but people actually write software in these languages. and to some success. 21:35:07 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:26 H4ns: I know, I'm using Objective-C to do so right now, and feel the pain. 21:35:47 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 21:35:49 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:32 pjb`: personally, when i feel the need for a gui, i do not feel the need for a fancy scroll of long text with active objects. i feel the need to place some elements on a form and connect the gui elements to my code. that is something that clim just does not do. 21:37:45 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:38:54 H4ns: but Java's SWING does not do what you want either. However, there's tooling to do it which is built on top of SWING. So, are you saying that clim tooling is missing/lacking? 21:39:33 the thing is: if mcclim was actually something that is usable, it would be great to base an editor on it. as far as i understand, though, mcclim is so buggy that developing climacs on top of it became an adventure in fixing mcclim bugs, to the point where the bugfixing took much more time then writing actual editor functionality. 21:40:01 but i've just picked this up from table talk, really. 21:41:38 kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:41 well, if that's close to the truth, that's frustrating at least. 21:42:20 When I needed an accounting package and I chose an OSS one, it took me 3 months of testing and bugfixing before I could start accounting. that was painful. 21:43:08 I agree with H4ns there about the lack of 'proper' CLIM abstractions and the non-usability. For a GUI i just use HTML+JS+CSS if i can, or `dialog` if it needs to run from shell, and I would _love_ to simply 'do it all in' CL with something similar to CLIM. 21:43:52 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:53 drewc: why do you love html+js+css ? 21:45:05 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 21:45:30 pnpuff: what makes you say that? 21:46:43 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:46:53 lets assume that what cl needs most is a proper ide 21:47:40 paul0 [~paulo@186.222.48.210] has joined #lisp 21:47:51 then, what would be needed for that? would it be an abstraction layer for the windowing system that is capable enough for an editor, yet simple enough to be implemented on a tty, in a web browser, in x11, in cairo and in quartz? 21:48:12 and then, would that automatically lead to an ill-specified subset of clim anyway? 21:48:14 -!- biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:49:27 Yes. 21:50:00 pjb`: do you say that on principle or do you say it because you've spent enough time with clim to actually be able to judge? 21:50:01 H4ns: exactly. 21:51:10 there will come a time when just the words "GUI abstraction layer" in one's mind will result in a nasty electrical shock 21:51:26 I hope so, anyway 21:51:43 H4ns: on principle. :-) 21:51:45 i tried ecclim, run a few examples, everything but "closing" windows worked fine :P 21:52:24 pjb`: :D 21:53:17 with enough money, one can make something like clim into an obnonxious monster ide that spins off application architecture frameworks. see eclipse! 21:53:33 so all cl needs is lots of money, that'll make clim fly! 21:54:06 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.48.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:54:10 *sigh* or someone just write an editor with ansi terminal control sequences as gui abstraction layer 21:54:12 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.143] has joined #lisp 21:56:03 -!- Guest79515 [~toni_@87.13.247.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:06 daniel2 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 21:56:17 -!- daniel2 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 21:56:22 it is all ronald reagan's fault. if he hadn't been that naive to believe that star wars could ever work, there would have been no ai winter and eclipse would actually have been written in cl. that's it. 21:56:53 *H4ns* waves his fist at ronald reagan 21:57:01 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:57:45 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-131-106.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:21 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-131-106.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:26 H4ns: what money can buy for cl? advertisement? 21:59:49 H4ns: we wouldn't change Eclipse 21:59:57 nan_: money can fill my fridge 22:00:06 after all, Eclipse is a case of *Smalltalk* program being rewritten in Java 22:00:30 *drewc* opens up his PAIP and CLPfAI to read some canonical texts 22:00:52 p_l: yeah, i know. i had the pleasure to work with visualage smalltalk back before it was rewritten. it was so cool, but because it did not come with source code, i found it unacceptable. 22:00:59 drewc: heh 22:02:08 seangrove [~user@adsl-71-134-233-220.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:13 confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:53 my PAIP is autographed, and I bought it at the MIT coop, and it has been on that campus to tour with me. If that is not canonical for me, i do not know what is. 22:04:11 -!- _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 22:04:33 CLPfAI? 22:05:58 -!- nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has left #lisp 22:06:21 nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has joined #lisp 22:07:22 *nan_* searches PAIP 22:07:37 since this is #lisp it must be Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming 22:07:47 but not Pengurusan Air Pahang Berhad 22:08:06 Bike: Common Lisp Programming for Artificial Intelligence? 22:08:14 ah. hadn't heard of it. 22:08:36 -!- nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has left #lisp 22:08:48 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 22:08:52 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 22:08:56 nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has joined #lisp 22:09:04 p_l: T 22:09:12 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:10:00 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 22:10:09 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@host-95-199-215-154.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:10:18 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA1039.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:22 -!- nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has left #lisp 22:10:47 nan_` [~user@46.197.116.88] has joined #lisp 22:11:56 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-44-23.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:18 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:41 how do all of you "screen" (and emacs of course) users deal with screen stealing C-a? 22:13:06 slyrus: i use tmux, and ^^ as escape characyer 22:13:07 I configure screen to use C-t instead. 22:13:16 I use C-q 22:13:18 slyrus: I don't run emacs in screen? 22:13:19 :P 22:13:24 kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:31 Ah no, C-t is for ratpoison, I give C-z to screen, 22:13:32 . 22:13:41 ok, thanks guys, except for p_l :) 22:13:51 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 22:14:01 and whenever I need to send emacs a C-q then I type C-q C-q and tmux sends a single C-q to emacs 22:14:11 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:17 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:15:15 slyrus: I use C-z 22:15:28 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.29.91.109] has joined #lisp 22:16:22 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:16:23 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 22:16:40 owww this ERC thing much better than i expected *closes opera irc* 22:16:51 slyrus: why is not possible to use C-a with emacs -nw running on screen? 22:17:12 screen grabs the C-a 22:17:27 slyrus: I am now using tmux, but .. 22:18:13 slyrus: so what happen? 22:18:19 I still type C-a a a will bit too much 22:18:54 pnpuff: the emacs cursor doesn't go to the beginning of line as expected 22:19:02 s/expected/desired/ 22:19:03 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:15 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:24 slyrus: even in bash is the same... 22:19:28 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 22:19:43 Daisy [~Daisy@c-3d42e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:20:00 slyrus: rebinding exist! 22:20:16 really? 22:20:17 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:20:19 yes, hence my question 22:20:34 maybe! 22:20:40 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:49 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:22:22 re-binding keys :) 22:22:25 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-59-142-111.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:00 anyone here done some work with glut? 22:24:01 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:24:04 cl-glut 22:24:06 -!- homie [~homie@94.122.241.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:25:40 in cl no, in c++ yes 22:26:30 -!- ngz [~user@118.97.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:29:40 -!- xpoqz [~xpoqz@80.203.124.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:30:02 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: lost-in-the-space] 22:31:33 :\ 22:31:44 nan_`, thanks 22:31:56 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 22:32:15 ngz [~user@118.97.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:23 -!- ngz [~user@118.97.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:27 bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:41 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c195e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:35:00 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.29.91.109] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 22:35:48 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 22:36:51 ngz [~user@118.97.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:24 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c195e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:45 walter|rtn [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:44 shwouchk: The concensus in #lispgames seems to be that glut is no good for anything but basic tech demos. 22:47:53 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:48:24 and you're better off using something else for managing your windows, like SDL or glop (cross-platform CFFI bindings to different OS' windowing systems) 22:48:33 sykopomp, I need something super basic 22:48:40 ah 22:48:51 shwouchk: lispbuilder-sdl and glop are both pretty basic 22:49:00 alright I guess 22:49:31 <|3b|> cl-glut might be easier to get working for a new lisp user 22:49:38 maybe not lb-sdl, actually, since it has actual external dependencies :) 22:49:39 <|3b|> (or it might not, depending on platform) 22:50:26 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 22:50:27 the main part going for it is that the tutorial I am reading is using it 22:51:42 -!- paul0 [~paulo@186.222.48.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:52:17 kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:53 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:57:31 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:58:00 -!- kruhft [~user@108.181.149.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:50 brandonz [~brandon@adsl-76-193-216-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:10 -!- seangrove [~user@adsl-71-134-233-220.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:01:34 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:02:37 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:03:41 seangrove [~user@69-12-252-222.dedicated.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:22 <|3b|> doesn't matter too much which lib you use to open windows for opengl stuff for learning, since the opengl part stays the same for all of them 23:06:48 <|3b|> just some different boilerplate to open a window, ask for input events, etc, and different names for the keys 23:08:04 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 23:10:47 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:13:34 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 23:14:54 kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:01 -!- confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15:37 confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:48 snearch [~snearch@www.polruckeln.com] has joined #lisp 23:27:32 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d028276.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:28:37 kmels 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joined #lisp 23:47:26 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-2925066520.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:47:37 -!- Myk267 [~myk@71.149.244.231] has left #lisp 23:49:13 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-12-57.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:27 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl10-233-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 23:52:01 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl10-233-51.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:55:29 -!- snearch [~snearch@www.polruckeln.com] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:57:11 Is it true that lisp is too expressive, leading to insufficient cooperation -- so we're stuck with emacs instead of lisp machines? [http://www.winestockwebdesign.com/Essays/Lisp_Curse.html] 23:57:46 emacs-dwim: no 23:58:11 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:58:31 -!- agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]