00:00:15 Bike: yes, because we rarely evaluate structures and most often just write data... right? 00:00:24 I mean, to explain what's going on, not in general. 00:00:33 s/structures/s-expressions/ (i agree, we don't evaluate structs) 00:00:43 Bike: ah yes! 00:00:51 (not ironic) 00:01:30 Loplin: if you understand the defun and know what quote does, i'd argue you grasp how ' works. 00:01:30 it's that or avoid reader macros. (quote ((quote (0 0)) (quote (1 0)))) like you said. 00:01:59 -!- dedis [~dedis@akw403.cs.yale.edu] has quit [K-Lined] 00:02:16 I wrote the defun, and I thought I understood how quote worked, but I think I do better now. 00:02:25 or .. is there not a section in the CLHS on syntax? 00:02:39 kmels__ [~kmels@p5B13F201.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:47 the second chapter, isn't it 00:02:48 I was under the impression that elements in a quote would be evaluated before being put into the list, and therefor required their own quote 00:03:51 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:03:57 clhs quote 00:03:58 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_quote.htm 00:04:13 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:04:52 daniel1 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 00:05:55 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 00:06:01 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@p5B13FBDE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:06:08 -!- kmels__ [~kmels@p5B13F201.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:06:22 -!- daniel1 is now known as danielmg 00:06:52 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 00:07:42 -!- danielmg [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:08:30 Loplin: I guess what has to be explained here is that lisp source code is of itself lisp objects, so in (let ((x 1)) (quote (+ x 2))), the second X has nothing to do with the variable that happens to be named in the source code using X... but that X is long gone by run time when '(+ x 2) goes on. 00:08:30 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 00:08:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:09:26 Or, heh, I am writing a paper now and my mind is on the best things for the readers, and so that paragraph came out :| 00:10:38 kmb [~kmb@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:04 redscare [~Adium@18.189.85.105] has joined #lisp 00:12:09 pjb, I have read claims that lisp is not meant for functional programming really. what do you have to say about that? 00:12:51 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:15:50 -!- redscare [~Adium@18.189.85.105] has quit [Client Quit] 00:16:57 shwouchkster: There is a lisp library called Qi, if i recall, that i hear refutes that claim. 00:17:00 question: in slime, I often use autocompletion with C-c Tab, but then if it is not unique and I choose the completion with either space or enter, I also get the corresponding key appended afterwards. Is there a way to choose the completion without adding a key after it? 00:17:01 shwouchkster: he's gone. programming in lisp has side-effects. lisp isn't purely functional. for instance, defining a function has the side-effect that your running image now uses that function. and you have setf, which is all but functional. however, good lisp style, tends to be somewhat functional. however, there are many many exceptions where a non-functional style is easier, and in those cases you're not forced to 00:17:01 subsequently probably will not-- write in a functional style.. 00:17:02 clhs set 00:17:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_set.htm 00:17:16 shwouchkster: or drewc's short answer ^_^ 00:17:20 hrm .. set exists .. not functional 00:18:21 don't even get me started on dynamic scope. ;) 00:18:35 drewc: it's a good thing 00:20:09 drewc, the clhs for set is weird. It seems to claim that I need to use (symbol-name 'something) when I set with setf, but this is not the case (is it?) why? and also, what is set then? 00:20:56 the value slot of a symbol isn't the same as its lexical value. 00:21:10 value cell* 00:21:48 (symbol-macrolet ((foo (error "wtf"))) 00:21:49 (setf foo 1)) 00:22:29 ? 00:22:34 *shwouchkster* blinks 00:23:02 shwouchkster: dynamic scope is a bit tricky to explain, if you're learning you should just stick with lexical as you've been doing 00:23:04 madnificent, thanks for your answer! 00:23:05 redscare [~Adium@18.189.85.105] has joined #lisp 00:23:16 set and symbol-value both pertain to dynamic scope, and not lexical 00:23:54 unrelated question: If I join two lists with nconc, and I know that one will be very long and one very short, is there a preferred order to joining them? (I don't care about order of elements) 00:24:11 well, that simply means that the setf of symbol-name for FOO is different from the setf of FOO itself 00:24:11 emacs-dw` [~user@cpe-67-249-148-53.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:20 -!- emacs-dw` [~user@cpe-67-249-148-53.twcny.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 00:24:29 what do people recommend for matrix operations in lisp? i'm currently looking at lla matlisp and lisplab 00:24:31 shwouchkster: you likely want the shorter list up front, as it will need to walk that list to find the last cons cell, and set the cdr of that cons cell to the second list. 00:24:46 madnificent, makes sense 00:24:47 clhs nconc 00:24:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_nconc.htm 00:25:29 drewc: the spec doesn't force that specific implementation (or i'm missing it) 00:25:53 drewc, the spec says nothing about my question, unless I missed it too 00:25:55 no, it doesn't ... I guess I am assuming that one knows what you said :) 00:26:13 my fault, my fault 00:26:17 :) 00:26:44 I obviously didn't realise that trivial fact if I had to ask - though I knew it would be something like that 00:28:18 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.8.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:28:37 -!- emacs-dwim [~user@cpe-67-249-148-53.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:28:43 Well, to put it simply, LISTs are made up of CONSes .. there is no way to know where the end of the list without walking down all items till you reach the end. 00:30:13 that can be a bit of an issue of you think of LISTs as lists and not chains of CONSes ... 00:30:25 drewc: you win! i lose! the CLHS *does* say what needs to be done. (nconc list-1 list-2) == (progn (rplacd (last list-1) list-2) list-1) 00:30:26 yeah 00:30:37 (typep '(1 . (2 . (3 . 4))) 'list) => T 00:31:17 emacs-dwim [~user@cpe-67-249-148-53.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:31:27 drewc, I realise. I guess I knew the answer but was too tired to understand right away :) 00:31:30 madnificent: I figured it would ... but I really should not be directing newbs there anyways, because, heh, it is a spec, not a tutorial. 00:32:07 shwouchkster: well, now it is sunk in a wee bit more :) 00:32:08 shwouchkster: then you should get some sleep :) 00:32:17 probably 00:32:36 now I'm curious about dynamic scope though 00:32:46 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:19 user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:51 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 00:33:54 drewc: i agree. though it *is* an answer to the question 00:34:16 segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-130-173.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:10 *madnificent* out 00:35:19 true, and know I know what to search for next time someone asks a similar question! 00:36:05 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-213-52-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:38:11 -!- segmond [~segmond@108.73.162.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:41:19 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:41:40 -!- gridaphobe` [~user@128.54.51.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:43 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 00:44:22 -!- setheus [~setheus@107-203-153-73.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:50:36 is anyone familiar with the error "control stack exhausted" error in sbcl? 00:50:50 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:51:45 means you tried to recurse more times than sbcl will let you. probably an infinite recursion flaw in whatever you did. 00:52:08 weird 00:52:17 I'm pretty sure I have no recursion at all 00:52:22 I'll double check 00:52:30 setheus [~setheus@107-203-153-73.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:53 Bike, yep, no recursion 00:54:04 paste your code? 00:57:33 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@146.90.133.72] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:57:39 Bike, clearest if read from buttom up. edge = (point . point), point = (x . y). http://paste.lisp.org/display/133846 00:57:59 I would understand if you said it's too complicated to bother :\ 00:58:22 the error happens when running (main) 00:58:26 shwouchkster: you can use the built in signum instead of sign 00:59:19 catmtking_ [~catmtking@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-138-157.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 00:59:22 -!- catmtking_ [~catmtking@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-138-157.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 01:01:28 Bike, ahh, cool. ill do that 01:02:28 as for your error, check the backtrace. (PROJECTION-LENGTH ((0.73101854 . 0) 1/2 . 0) ((-1 . -0.28418446) 0 . -0.28418446)) is in hundreds of frames for some reason 01:02:47 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.68.247] has joined #lisp 01:03:23 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:05:21 sellout [~Adium@pool-71-175-17-248.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:43 shwouchkster: oh, projection-length calls itself with its original arguments in the second to last cond clause, there's your problem probably 01:06:48 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-2925067768.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:06:51 hmm 01:07:21 Bike, missed that, thanks! 01:07:56 shwouchkster: if you're using slime you can try slime-who-calls to get that sort of info programmatically 01:08:15 nice! 01:09:05 Bike, it seems not to work though 01:09:12 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:09:24 "no references found for projection-length" 01:10:40 good thing I already helped you debug that then 01:12:14 yep 01:12:48 thanks again! 01:14:35 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:15:31 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:54 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:17:09 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:12 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:19:54 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:20 i am writing a macro that takes a (constant) list as a parameter. is there a way for the macro to attempt to get the length of the list passed to it at compile time? 01:20:59 g'day 01:21:43 redscare: i might not understand completely.. but.. (length constant) ? 01:22:21 clhs length 01:22:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_length.htm 01:22:34 i'm not being clear. i'll post some code 01:23:19 redscare: that should be helpful. pastebin.ubuntu.com is good for these purposes. 01:23:40 or, how about, paste.lisp.org ? 01:24:02 redscare: that sounds like more of a compiler macro thing to want, but just (length (eval constant)) I guess? 01:24:09 that may be an even better place 01:24:31 http://paste.lisp.org/display/133847 01:25:05 the (eval constant) worked 01:25:46 that is a bizarre macro 01:26:05 -!- zerowaitstate [~dwaites@ppp-70-254-44-53.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:26:07 ummm .. that source you posted is indeed an error ... 01:26:21 sw2wolf [~czsq888@220.166.238.139] has joined #lisp 01:27:10 redscare: we might be more helpful if we understand what it is you're trying to accomplish. and it is good habit to write your code as if someone else will read it who has no idea what it is supposed to do (you can see how that would be helpful right now, for instance). 01:28:27 (defmacro foo (list) `(1+ ,(length list))) 01:28:29 (defmacro foo (list) `(1+ ,(length list))) 01:28:32 err 01:28:44 (foo (bar baz bat)) => 4 01:29:04 nydel: the (length (eval constant)) worked, but if you're familiar with the generic runge-kutta ODE algorithm, i'm implementing an efficient lisp version of that 01:30:18 if you're generating tables or something at compile time I think it's usually considered better to use #. or load-time-value? 01:30:34 redscare: oh that's fun 01:30:38 redscare: Rule of thumb to remember: If you use EVAL, it's an almost certainty that you're doing something wrong. 01:31:18 -!- Loplin [~Loplin@CPE-65-26-211-6.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:31:23 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1167960209.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:32:23 Bike: it's a little bit tricky. the details are that i need to generate n constants, with the ith constant depending on all the constants up to i-1. i'd like to do this efficiently without creating lists or arrays as this needs to happen potentially thousands or millions of times 01:34:06 how about "try to produce the form first at run time, because what COMPILE takes is a lambda _expression_" 01:34:26 loke_erc: really? even inside a macro? 01:34:59 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1167960209.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:37:11 or "that does not seem at all like a macro, and constants can be looked up however once that are generated, and that could be long after compile time and it makes more sense to have it that may ..." 01:37:27 s/that/they .. I cannot spell today! 01:38:08 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 01:39:14 stlifey [~stlifey@59.35.102.160] has joined #lisp 01:39:50 and, the "ith constant depending on all the constants up to i-1", sounds familiar, like a mathematical problem that has been dealt with for a while ... Fibonacci sequence 01:40:23 well, fib only depends on the last two, which recursivelyd epend on the rest 01:40:29 drewc: not quite. it's a bit more complicated 01:40:46 i could (and have) written it recursively/in a loop and collected my results in a list/array 01:41:17 but i wanted to see if the time taken to actually create the list/array is significant and whether i should just write a macro that may produce code that does the same thing but faster 01:41:55 if you only need one array at a time you could just have one array and overwrite it repeatedly 01:42:14 aren't global variables bad? :) 01:42:29 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.188.5] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:42:31 nydel: especially inside a macro 01:42:37 nothing's bad if you use it right 01:42:58 Bike: i'll test it to see if it's slower/faster 01:43:04 who said anything about globals... that is what closures are for! 01:43:09 Bike: Yes, that's why I used the word "almost" :-) 01:43:18 though I'm not sure what you're doing still. how does this have anything to do with macros? 01:43:26 -!- loke_erc [~user@c-4957e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:43:31 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:43:56 so the runge-kutta method can have different orders, but it's a relatively straightforward procedure to generate the method given 3 sets of coefficients for each order 01:44:01 loke_erc [~user@c-4957e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 01:44:29 so i could use functions that operate generically, or, since only certain orders are frequently used, just create a macro that generates methods that do the computation 01:46:08 where does the generating n constants millions of times come in? 01:47:26 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:47:57 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:13 the algorithm works by taking a derivative of, say 'y', by evaluating the derivative at various points (these are the n constants), then adding them up in a special way to get the approximation for the next value of y, and so on. this may need to happen many times for a given function 01:48:48 so the various points you evaluate at depend on y? 01:49:22 on the previous value of y, yes 01:49:36 but the method i'm generating only executes one step of the algorithm 01:49:44 so it goes from y_n to y_n+1 01:51:34 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 01:56:46 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:27 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 02:03:03 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.68.247] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:03:52 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.133] has joined #lisp 02:09:04 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.111] has joined #lisp 02:11:32 -!- user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:13:29 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.68.247] has joined #lisp 02:13:34 kofno [~kofno@72.240.63.121] has joined #lisp 02:13:50 redscare: but why does it need to be a macro? looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runge%E2%80%93Kutta_methods, it seems very similar to fibonacci from a programming POV. Is there something special the requires it all be done at macroexpand time? 02:15:41 I think redscare wants to generate the methods at compile time. But I'm not sure why you couldn't just do that with normal functions at runtime and all and then move it back if necessary 02:16:05 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:18:07 redscare: http://paste.lisp.org/display/133847#1 <--- that was my fun for the day , i fib'ed a bit there, but fib'ing is ok in this sense. 02:18:37 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442486.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:19:12 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 02:19:31 and I seem to have messed up that paste ... 02:20:11 Bike: what do you mean by "move it back" 02:20:12 ? 02:20:46 impulse [~impulse@65.95.105.140] has joined #lisp 02:21:05 moving the method generation from runtime to compile time 02:24:59 I just don't understand why it _needs_ to be at _compile_ time, and why for example :load-toplevel isn't early enough. or #. for that matter. 02:26:16 oh, no, you're right. before runtime is all I meant. 02:26:28 or for that matter if the methods we are going on about are the common lisp methods or the mathematical "implicit and explicit iterative methods" :) 02:30:25 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:31:06 francisl_ [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-2925067768.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:31:16 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:33 -!- kofno [~kofno@72.240.63.121] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:38:07 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:42:04 kofno [~kofno@72.240.63.121] has joined #lisp 02:49:32 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.68.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:51:17 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.204.138] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:51:18 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 02:52:40 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:59:16 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [] 03:00:36 -!- redscare [~Adium@18.189.85.105] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:04:50 -!- redline6561_ [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:04:55 -!- deego [deego@unaffiliated/deego] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:05:54 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:06:09 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:28 leoncamel [~leoncamel@219.143.151.146] has joined #lisp 03:06:31 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:34 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.204.138] has joined #lisp 03:11:38 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 03:12:57 ClothedSauce [~CheerLeon@c-24-98-161-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:01 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:13:51 doomlord [~doomlod@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 03:18:15 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:22:21 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:30:08 -!- riverc4c [~grive@pool-71-183-214-254.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 03:30:26 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1167960209.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:30:37 digitalcold [~digitalco@adsl-108-132-230-86.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:16 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:57 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.204.138] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:36:21 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:36:40 Im looking for an easy way to execute a linux command from Racket. Does anyone know the function offhand? 03:39:01 digitalcold: There may be a #racket, but at the very least, #scheme would probably be more helpful. This channel is really focused on Common Lisp. 03:41:03 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:41:12 sellout, thanks. Next time I'll read the topic 03:41:38 -!- digitalcold [~digitalco@adsl-108-132-230-86.mia.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 03:42:07 -!- kofno [~kofno@72.240.63.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:43:43 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:51:34 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:53:23 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 03:53:24 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:30 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.217] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:00:16 kofno [~kofno@72.240.63.121] has joined #lisp 04:03:01 -!- benny [~user@i577A8947.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:05:56 PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-93.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 04:09:10 -!- kofno [~kofno@72.240.63.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:37 teggi [~teggi@113.172.42.162] has joined #lisp 04:11:53 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.62.113.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:16:32 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:17:11 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1167960209.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:24:27 kofno [~kofno@72.240.63.121] has joined #lisp 04:25:31 segmond [~segmond@99.150.130.173] has joined #lisp 04:26:44 -!- kofno [~kofno@72.240.63.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:42 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.24] has joined #lisp 04:31:44 -!- KingNato [~isildur@c-e9eee253.012-31-73746f43.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:31:50 KingNato [~isildur@c-e9eee253.012-31-73746f43.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 04:32:41 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 04:36:01 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36:25 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:57 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.204.138] has joined #lisp 04:39:55 -!- fasta_ [~xchat@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:40:36 -!- aerique [310225@194.109.21.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:43:31 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:46:39 -!- eMBee_ is now known as eMBee 04:48:17 good afternoon 04:49:03 fasta [~xchat@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 04:49:36 *eMBee* found a peculiar error that he can't make any sense of: The value -1 is not of type (MOD 536870909). see http://paste.lisp.org/display/133838 04:50:05 as far as i can tell it may have to do something with cffi and a type mismatch. 04:50:23 but is it my code or is it a bug in linedit? 04:51:39 linedit it seems 04:52:08 i thought so too, but it still could be triggered by me using linedit the wrong way 04:53:46 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 04:56:28 Possibly. 04:56:41 I've never used linedit, and I can't say I ever felt the need to 04:57:31 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:57:57 -!- derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:58:00 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:02:25 -!- ClothedSauce [~CheerLeon@c-24-98-161-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:02:50 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 05:02:54 derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 05:03:31 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 05:04:13 -!- xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:04:57 doomlord [~doomlod@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 05:11:20 -!- bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:11:34 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:12:49 does Common Lisp have something equivalent to __func__? 05:12:58 sigjuice: no. 05:19:31 segmond__ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-128-65.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:38 cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-122-229.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:22:51 -!- segmond [~segmond@99.150.130.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:23:35 segmond [~segmond@adsl-99-150-128-65.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:37 -!- segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-130-173.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:24:06 -!- derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:24:59 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:26:25 derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 05:31:03 MikeM` [~user@cpe-174-109-084-082.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:36:29 linsy [~ev@176.214.232.253] has joined #lisp 05:38:11 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:37 -!- nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has left #lisp 05:44:19 loke_erc: i am creating a commandline program with a readline interface. using the repl won't do because i need the ability to edit lines of text without retyping them. 05:45:03 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-2925067768.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 05:45:04 -!- francisl_ is now known as francisl 05:46:13 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 05:46:26 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:46:33 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:52:40 segv_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-129-033.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:08 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@219.143.151.146] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 05:54:48 You might look at cl-readline , source is at http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/c/cl-readline/cl-readline_0.2.0.orig.tar.gz 05:55:11 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@59.35.102.160] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 05:55:31 zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has joined #lisp 05:57:07 The REPL in stumpwm is still very simple, maybe you can enhance it to support multiple line editing. 05:57:17 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-2925067768.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 06:01:00 oh, single line editing will do for now 06:02:58 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:04:23 francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-2925067768.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 06:04:31 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:04:34 MikeM` cl-readline claims to be dead and superceeded by linedit 06:07:17 quite possible, I did have to dig abit to find it and then add include to the c wrapper to get it to compile 06:08:02 linedit is in quicklisp, so getting that loaded was trivial 06:08:29 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 06:09:06 http://cliki.net/linedit : "Successor to cl-readline" 06:11:26 single line editing is ugly in stumpwm, i need to reopen the eval window for each evaluation :( 06:11:48 just use slime 06:12:22 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:42 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 06:13:02 slime is ok, but i want to eval at any time not just using emacs. 06:14:34 stumpwm makes me eval at any time now, it feels VERY good. 06:14:51 asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 06:15:03 if you say so. for actually working with it I couldn't stand it though. 06:15:09 with linedit be prepared to do some digging though, no docs. Looks quite full featured but is kinda targeted as a line editor for the repl 06:15:11 sw2wolf: screen/tmux + linedit? 06:15:17 I guess you could probably add symbol completion for eval pretty easily though. 06:16:10 if i knew clx, i can hack it . but ... 06:17:31 MikeM`: oh, sure, i already realized, but that's fine. as i am still learning cl i can't do wrong with having to digg through code 06:17:52 *drewc* has clfswm installed on his notebook, but has not really used it yet at all.. I usually ssh -x to it and run emacsclient -c 06:19:00 BTW, can emacsclient use emacs on another machine ? 06:19:49 jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:20:08 jjkola_work_ [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 06:21:05 A nice line editor for stumpwm eval prompts would be very cool though.. 06:21:13 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:24 yes 06:21:29 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:21:29 -!- jjkola_work_ is now known as jjkola_work 06:22:06 In fact knowing CLX is enough to do such a thing 06:22:25 -!- emacs-dwim [~user@cpe-67-249-148-53.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:22:51 it seems clfswm's eval makes a progress 06:23:00 emacsclient can connect to any emacs server. The is the entire point of it tbh 06:23:13 <|3b|> eMBee: should the string-equal in that paste be char-equal? 06:24:16 *|3b|* supposes characters are string designators 06:25:24 |3b|: "a character (denoting a singleton string that has the character as its only element)" 06:25:29 -!- john__ [~john@174.158.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:26:03 (string= #\f "f") => T 06:26:07 <|3b|> drewc: right, so should work, just confusing :) 06:26:44 I agree about the confusing, and that is the first time I have ever learned that #\f is string= to "f" :) 06:27:09 I guess I do not know enough about CL at all! 06:27:29 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:28:17 -!- MikeM` [~user@cpe-174-109-084-082.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:28:24 <|3b|> eMBee: also, &optional + &key in same arglist is a good way to confuse yourself in the future when you try to use the keys and don't care about the optional 06:29:24 &optional is generally a bad idea, save for when it is great! 06:29:56 &aux is the same way fwiw :) 06:30:48 drewc: Have you ever used &aux for effect? 06:31:45 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:32:54 generally in my 'functional' style code where I use lambda's a lot, it saves a LET basically ... but probably grep on my src dir probably does not have it, that is usually a REPL kind of thing. 06:34:49 -!- shwouchkster [~shwouchk@bzq-84-110-44-159.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:35:44 I feel "lambda" is too long compared with "fun" , "fn" ,etc. 06:36:15 and &optional helps for recursive things .. but if there is &key, and all &key's are optional .. well &optional does not make much sense there. 06:37:50 sw2wolf: by the way, why would you need to know clx? stumpwm already has most of the code you'd need, I think 06:37:58 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:38:03 sw2wolf: well, perhaps you should look at another language, or , heh, http://fresh.homeunix.net/~luke/misc/emacs/pretty-lambda.el 06:38:04 Tabrenus [~Tabrenus@213.211.132.86.static.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:58 unless  is still too long .. then, well ... 06:39:44 m| 06:40:23 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:41:05 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-196-139.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:42:03 You could also quickload lambda-reader 06:42:19 yeah. or learn the rest of lisp and get on with it 06:42:42 leoncamel [~leoncamel@219.143.151.146] has joined #lisp 06:42:54 there are so many things in cl that are not terse that there is no way to fix the problem. either live with it, or use a lisp that is less verbose. 06:43:17 sorry , ijust come back 06:44:15 maybe reader-macro can make CL more terse ? 06:44:51 sw2wolf: yes. you can cripple the language a lot with that. but you'll end up with gibberish that nobody except you will understand 06:45:16  is good but it is not on the keyboard 06:45:27 it is not good and it is not on the keyboard 06:46:11 you can define keyboard shortcuts in emacs pretty easily though 06:46:31 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:47 -!- linsy [~ev@176.214.232.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:47:52 «(defmethod initialize-instance :before ((o foo) ...) (eval `(defmethod shared-initialize :before ((o foo) ...) ...)))» sbcl sources sure are scary. 06:47:58 , at least you need to know how to create a window and event processing,etc. Of course you can learn from stumpwm code. But CLX is necessary to hack it 06:48:31 I mean, you could copy the code that's already there for eval prompts and all. 06:49:03 seriously, #fortran is probably thataway ---> .. and maybe some folks there have been complaining about 06:49:03 LAMBDA sine '59 or so 06:49:03 since 06:49:51 "eval prompts" is simple but you need to use new window to get user's input. 06:50:20 and the new window needs to behave like a real REPL 06:50:43 not the simple one in stumpwm 06:50:57 oh, I see. 06:52:49 (loop (print (eval (read)))) .... Yay! I wrote a real REPL! :P 06:54:06 it is simple in stumpwm as below: 06:54:07 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 06:54:11 (with-output-to-string (*standard-output*) 06:54:12 (handler-case 06:54:12 (format t "~{~a~^~%~}" 06:54:12 (mapcar 'prin1-to-string 06:54:14 (multiple-value-list (eval (read-from-string cmd))))) 06:54:17 (error (c) 06:54:22 (format t "~A" c)))) 06:54:26 sw2wolf: stop it now. 06:54:32 ok 06:54:42 sw2wolf: use paste.lisp.org 06:54:54 thx 06:58:01 Vivitron [~Vivitron@ip68-228-201-242.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:54 -!- Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:59:29 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-2925067768.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 07:00:32 can anyone share some elisp snipped that makes *print-right-margin* follow the slime repl window width? 07:00:55 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 07:03:46 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:05:34 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-10-184.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:06:35 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07:00 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:07:23 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.103.218] has quit [Quit: I be back.] 07:07:29 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 07:09:45 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@ip68-228-201-242.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: trivial-irc-0.0.3] 07:10:30 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:10:47 -!- Tabrenus [~Tabrenus@213.211.132.86.static.edpnet.net] has quit [Quit: Tabrenus] 07:11:52 linsy [~ev@46.0.133.211] has joined #lisp 07:12:47 H4ns: it seems to be a pain (and changes the global value of *print-right-margin*) if you do it via slime's existing hooks 07:13:28 segv_: ok, never mind. i just thought it'd be nice. 07:13:34 segv_: thanks! 07:13:45 if however you're ok with patching slime-repl-eval-string: 07:13:46 http://paste.lisp.org/display/133852 07:14:29 *H4ns* tries 07:14:42 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:14:55 cute! 07:15:06 i've put that into my .emacs.local, thanks! 07:16:55 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@219.143.151.146] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 07:17:06 pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:18 -!- linsy [~ev@46.0.133.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:18:50 -!- pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has left #lisp 07:19:11 linsy [~ev@46.0.133.211] has joined #lisp 07:21:11 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:24:23 well, i guess i should know this, but what's the standard way of submitting patches to slime? is it really a diff against the cvs head? 07:24:50 jjkola_work_ [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 07:25:03 as far as i know, slime is still in cvs, so yes. 07:25:17 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:25:17 -!- jjkola_work_ is now known as jjkola_work 07:26:09 |3b| string-equal vs char-equal is a good observation, i'll try that. as for &optional + &key, i am aware of the problem. this is taken out of exising code that had &optional for the longest time and is used in several places. i didn't want to change all the places, but i'll probably either do that or just have two optional arguments, not sure yet. 07:26:32 -!- impulse [~impulse@65.95.105.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:27:17 impulse [~impulse@65.95.105.140] has joined #lisp 07:27:25 cibs [~cibs@219-87-142-18.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 07:29:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:30:53 ludston [~patience@CPE-60-229-3-167.lns4.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:32:25 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 07:33:14 -!- ludston [~patience@CPE-60-229-3-167.lns4.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 07:33:17 drewc: &optional is fine for one argument or multiple ones if they are used together (use all optional args or none), or depend on each other in sequence. but not for cases where either one or the other is used (which is actually the case in my code, so i'll most likely chage it) 07:33:24 ludston [~patience@CPE-60-229-3-167.lns4.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:33:56 change 07:34:05 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 07:35:11 -!- ludston [~patience@CPE-60-229-3-167.lns4.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:36:32 H4ns: do you have a .emacs.not-local as well? 07:36:42 or, if you have .emacs.local, what's in .emacs ? 07:37:12 segv_: i have a .emacs.local that is machine specific. my .emacs is in git and shared across all machines that i use 07:38:28 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.204.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:42:45 i do the same 07:43:02 though i have it in ~/.emacs.d/site-init.el :) 07:44:25 fwiw i have this as the last line of my .emacs (so all my per machine configs can sit next to each other in git): http://paste.lisp.org/display/133853 07:44:27 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-144-158.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:53 dabr [~dabr@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has joined #lisp 07:45:09 segv_: won't that give you an error if you start Emacs on a which which has no mb- file? 07:46:31 loke_erc: yup (and, given how i have things setup, that's what i want) 07:46:42 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:47:32 doing (or (load ... t) (message "No local config for %s found" system-name)) would also word. 07:48:20 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:48:52 I check in my entire .emacs.d into Mercurial, and in init.el I have a check to see if the machine is in the office, at which point it loads a very complex system to integrate Gnus into Outlook 07:49:16 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:49:29 Basically, I do a lot of magic to make sure that my emails play in the Outlook quoting style (while still allowing me write my emails with MUSE) 07:49:43 redscare [~Adium@18.205.1.172] has joined #lisp 07:49:51 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:49:56 https://code.google.com/p/gnus-outlook-style/source/browse/ for anyone who's interested 07:50:37 ah gnus, how i love to hate thee. 07:50:43 :) 07:50:45 bubo [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 07:51:04 It took me a lot of coersion and writing of both Elisp and Common Lisp code to make it all work 07:51:20 I'm at a point now where it can actually be used effectively in production 07:51:48 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 07:52:30 Vivitron [~Vivitron@ip68-228-201-242.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:53:16 so you use muse to generate html which you then modify with closure which you then put back into emacs and send with gnus? 07:53:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:55:20 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 07:56:36 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:01:24 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:02:55 Is it worth using mail in emacs ? Now i am using mail built in opera 08:03:04 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 08:03:24 -!- p_l is now known as p_l|work 08:03:46 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-218-197-21.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:04:03 sw2wolf: this isn't #emacs, but I quite liked the time I used wanderlust, need to set it up again though 08:04:52 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:05:56 thx 08:06:29 -!- linsy [~ev@46.0.133.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:07:29 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 08:08:59 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:11:39 superflit [~superflit@209-181-75-74.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:08 ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.97] has joined #lisp 08:12:13 kmels [~kmels@p5B13F90D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:30 segv_: Sory for disappearing 08:12:46 segv_: But yes. That's what I do 08:13:03 segv_: I did that because there is no proper HTML tagsoup parser in Elisp 08:13:10 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:17:00 leoncamel [~leoncamel@219.143.151.146] has joined #lisp 08:19:23 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:16 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.197] has joined #lisp 08:23:23 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-068-134-236.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:57 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:47 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:25:47 paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:26:07 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 08:27:40 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 08:27:50 linsy [~ev@46.0.104.157] has joined #lisp 08:35:25 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:36:59 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 08:39:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-200.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:39:16 -!- am0c is now known as wake 08:39:19 -!- wake is now known as am0c 08:39:24 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-10-184.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:41:28 kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 08:41:47 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:45:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:45:35 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-10-208.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:47:24 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: dead] 08:47:43 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 08:49:42 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 08:50:04 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 08:50:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:50:35 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@220.166.238.139] has left #lisp 08:54:01 prip [~foo@host84-125-dynamic.37-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:54:08 -!- zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:54:15 -!- prip_ [~foo@host84-125-dynamic.37-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:55:09 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:58:34 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:59:22 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 08:59:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:00:04 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:03:59 mikecsh [~mikecsh@host213-123-238-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 09:04:39 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:05:34 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@host213-123-238-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #lisp 09:05:35 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 09:09:12 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:10:26 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:11:00 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:52 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 09:12:28 loke_erc: what about org integration? http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/org-mime.html 09:13:00 drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 09:13:49 dim: wel, I use Muse to do that 09:14:01 -!- redscare [~Adium@18.205.1.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:14:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:14:29 well I use Muse for my blog so... I will be sure to look at your stuff the day I want to send out emails in html :) 09:14:29 -!- theos is now known as Guest28608 09:14:38 dim: I could use org as well, my magic happens after the source has been converted to HTML, so your suggestion would be nothing more than replacing the call to muse+publish to whatever org+mime uses-. 09:15:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:15:11 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:15:46 sw2wolf [~czsq888@220.166.238.139] has joined #lisp 09:17:29 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@220.166.238.139] has left #lisp 09:17:39 why do you need an external binary, what kind of formating does it do? 09:18:12 -!- Guest28608 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:21:04 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:23:51 -!- kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:25:03 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 09:25:14 _sg_ [51d6ff65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.214.255.101] has joined #lisp 09:25:36 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.68.247] has joined #lisp 09:25:49 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 09:27:20 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:28:51 kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 09:28:54 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 09:28:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:29:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:30:09 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:31:52 cyanboy1 [9453842c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.83.132.44] has joined #lisp 09:32:06 Hi, I am having some trouble intergrating SLIME and SBCL into my emacs on windows. Could I have some assistance? 09:32:06 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:41 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-pvnbijokqdcnqszz] has joined #lisp 09:34:27 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:35:41 did you try the quicklisp slime helper yet? 09:40:27 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:42:10 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:42:15 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 09:43:31 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.24] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 09:44:21 redscare [~Adium@18.205.1.172] has joined #lisp 09:46:56 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:48:25 benny [~user@i577A106A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:48:33 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 09:49:39 dim: another stage of optimization would involve adding proper type-declarations, there it's for SBCL https://gist.github.com/4125554 09:49:47 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-200.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:49:48 wouldn't work as well on CCL 09:50:06 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.68.247] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:50:31 low-level optimization is unfortunately specific to each implementation 09:50:32 -!- cyanboy1 [9453842c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.148.83.132.44] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:51:50 I'm using a top-level (declaim (optimize speed)) instead, I've been trying to optimize the sudoku solver with type-declarations before and that didn't work out as better than a simple top-level declaim in my tests (ccl and sbcl, IIRC) 09:52:22 -!- redscare [~Adium@18.205.1.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:52:49 well, you need to know where and which to add 09:54:23 dim: SBCL is nice in the way that if you set (speed 3) it will inform you about places it needs declarations 09:56:43 maybe I should use SBCL more... I still find the backtrace/debug facilities of CCL much better 09:57:08 sbcl transforms (member (the fixnum x) '(0 4 16 20 37 42 58 89 145)) into a series of compares with jumps 09:57:42 I mean it's harder to understand what's wrong with sbcl backtraces, so I keep using CCL, then we speak about performances and everybody's mentioning sbcl insteead. Developping with CCL and deploying with SBCL does seem ok for me. 09:58:25 i just press "v" in slime and it transfers me to the point where the error has occurred 09:58:32 and i compile all the code with debug 2 09:58:48 (via (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'debug 2)) 09:59:56 (disassemble (lambda (x) (member (the fixnum x) *depressed-squares*))) 10:00:13 doesn't look as optimized as a series of jumps to me 10:00:16 that's not what i said, is it? 10:00:23 but well what do I now about nowadays cpus 10:00:35 v in slime. I must try that sometime. 10:01:03 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host45-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:01:11 stassats: I'm trying to compare ccl's optimizations to sbcl ones here, with the disassemble 10:01:14 (disassemble (lambda (x) (and (member (the fixnum x) '(0 4 16 20 37 42 58 89 145)) t))) 10:01:26 dim: but you miscopied my example 10:01:35 shwouchk [~shwouchk@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has joined #lisp 10:01:37 hello 10:01:56 about the same disassembly 10:02:24 is it? 10:02:29 want a paste? 10:02:36 yes 10:02:50 suppose I want to do (loop for a in when (f b) collect (f b)), where f is expensive. how would I write it nicely? 10:03:16 (loop for a in x when (f b) collect it) 10:03:18 shwouchk: collect it 10:03:28 http://paste.lisp.org/display/133854 10:03:39 jdz, s/it/(f b) 10:03:46 aah 10:03:48 nm 10:03:55 dim: i don't see an SBCL disassemble output there 10:04:03 jdz, stassats nice! thanks 10:04:06 exactly, as I'm trying in ccl :) 10:04:19 my point is just saying "ah yes ccl is not that smart" 10:04:19 silenius [~silenius@brln-4dbc6092.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:31 and i repeatedly stressed that it's about SBCL 10:04:40 yes we're in agreement 10:05:06 and to get it optimize in sbcl, you need a literal list, not a variable 10:05:17 aaah, that's the bit I didn't knwo, ok 10:05:23 well one of those 10:05:25 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 10:05:43 well, it's clear that it can't be optimize if the point of variables is that they can be changed 10:05:43 someday I'll install sbcl on this machine and setup slime so that I can switch between using sbcl or ccl at will 10:05:59 it's easy to do so, by the way 10:06:15 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:06:19 "constants are not, variable won't" or something like that 10:06:30 (member (the fixnum x) (load-time-value *depressed-squares* t)) will be optimized in SBCL 10:07:06 or (define-symbol-macro *foo* '(1 2 3 4)) 10:08:02 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 10:08:09 defconstant also works 10:08:24 it also complains 10:08:47 so you need to do a little dance to stop sbcl from complaining 10:09:01 _the_ little dance 10:10:20 xpoqz [~xpoqz@80.203.124.203] has joined #lisp 10:10:23 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 10:10:40 and it's not treated in all implementations as a literal it represents 10:10:52 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:10:57 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 10:12:15 (you can guess the exception) 10:12:16 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:34 -!- cnl [~pony@91.203.66.41] has quit [Quit: (._. )] 10:13:06 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.197] has joined #lisp 10:18:27 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003f27.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:36 Xizor [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:22:17 stassats, I can't refer to 'it' in an if statement also, can I? 10:26:36 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-41-14.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:28:59 Joreji [~thomas@95-079.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 10:29:05 you can 10:29:35 (loop for a in x if (f b) collect it)] 10:33:02 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:34:10 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.15.178] has joined #lisp 10:34:39 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 10:36:35 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 10:37:48 yates [~user@nc-71-54-138-0.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:11 is there a way to define a function a keyword parameter such that it can be invoked with the keyword only? e.g., (my-funct :turn-on-the-lights) rather than (my-funct :turn-on-the-lights 1) 10:39:38 yates: no 10:39:40 s/a keyword parameter/with a keyword parameter/ 10:40:06 can you do this witha macro? 10:40:07 myx [~myx@pppoe-213-52-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 10:40:11 yates: you can do the parameter parsing yourself, like postmodern does 10:40:12 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-079.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:40:29 yates: you can also create a my-botched-defun macro, sure. 10:40:40 botched? 10:40:48 yates: i don't like the idea. 10:41:01 yates: postmodern does something like that in pomo:query 10:41:39 maybe i'm going about this wrong, then 10:41:50 just use plists. it works very well 10:41:53 stassats, I meant refere to 'it' in the the if statement itself 10:41:56 yates: also, a keyword is just a symbol, you can compare it with other symbols, or look up in a list or anything 10:42:12 yates perhaps you want something like this? (defun foo (symbol) symbol) (foo :bar) => :bar 10:42:41 kennyd: yes 10:42:56 that works 10:43:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:43:20 ah, that's what you were saying, H4ns, about doing the parameter parsing myself? 10:43:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:43:57 yates: no - i misunderstood your question. you can use keywords as arguments just fine 10:44:16 kennyd: so then how would you test "symbol" inside for a specific keyword, like ":bar"? 10:44:28 yates: i thought you were bothered by the fact that for keyword arguments, you always need to supply a value 10:44:32 yates with eq 10:44:39 (eq symbol :bar)? 10:44:48 yes 10:45:02 yates: (ecase symbol (:bar (do-this)) (:baz (do-that))) 10:45:11 H4ns: well, different way to skin the cat, but yes, i was. 10:45:51 or maybe make my-funct a generic function, and define methods with EQL specializers 10:46:09 H4ns: ah - very good! 10:46:18 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:46:32 ok, thank you. Happy Thanksgiving! 10:48:01 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 10:48:14 AeroNotix [~xeno@aqs30.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:48:16 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003f27.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:49:12 Joreji [~thomas@95-079.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 10:49:49 redscare [~Adium@18.205.1.172] has joined #lisp 10:53:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-079.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:53:54 -!- redscare [~Adium@18.205.1.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:57:00 pjb [~t@voyager.informatimago.com] has joined #lisp 10:57:02 bxx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 10:57:20 -!- pjb is now known as Guest56682 10:58:16 emacs-dwim [~user@cpe-67-249-148-53.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:00:07 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.154] has joined #lisp 11:00:26 -!- Guest56682 is now known as pjb` 11:00:31 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 11:06:46 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:10:28 Joreji [~thomas@91-230.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:17:23 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-12-208.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:17:44 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:19:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:19:56 -!- benny [~user@i577A106A.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 11:20:01 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:20:49 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 11:21:01 benny [~user@i577A106A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:21:25 homie [~homie@94.123.220.37] has joined #lisp 11:24:06 shwouchk: it is a loop statement, not a variable 11:24:13 so, no 11:30:53 great, cl-jpeg doesn't support all jpegs 11:31:02 and i don't even know which ones it does 11:31:48 -!- bubo [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:33:22 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 11:33:24 that must be annoying 11:33:43 well, luckily i need it to work on the jpegs only i supply 11:33:54 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 11:35:02 figured to uncheck Progressive in GIMP 11:35:57 Posterdati [~antani@host45-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:36:10 hi 11:36:14 flip214: hi 11:37:44 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 11:38:22 and did i tell you that i hate cl-typesetting? 11:38:27 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:34 stassats: use fop 11:39:13 what's that? 11:39:16 I took a look at sbcl's documentation of the FFI , it looked simple enough, i hope its also stable enough because with the level of support of lisp libraries I dont think I will avoid it 11:39:37 stassats: an implementation of xsl-fo - generate some xml, have fop turn it into beautiful pdfs 11:39:38 first, you should really use CFFI 11:40:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:40:10 H4ns: can it automatically lay out tables? 11:40:31 stassats: is it an external library ? 11:40:38 stassats: not totally automatic (you need to supply the column widths) 11:40:56 H4ns: well, that's one of my biggest gripes 11:41:04 stassats: sorry then :( 11:41:35 ah ok found it 11:42:18 and latex table extensions can't do that either 11:42:23 why is it so hard? 11:45:05 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 11:46:01 and jpegs embededed into pdfs by cl-pdf looks pixelated as hell 11:46:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:49:20 -!- homie [~homie@94.123.220.37] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:50:08 redscare [~Adium@CP-ONE-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 11:50:49 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:54:27 cl-pdf seems to also support png, but cl-typesetting doesn't 11:54:42 -!- redscare [~Adium@CP-ONE-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:56:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:57:20 niels1 [~niels@p4FD6CA1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:29 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.154] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:59:26 cffi appears very well documented, thanks stassats 12:01:07 cnl [~pony@91.203.66.41] has joined #lisp 12:01:16 Is there a class-bound-p? 12:01:32 emacs-dwim: are you looking for find-class? 12:01:33 (find-class 'x nil) 12:02:40 stassats: yes! 12:03:14 why do you want that, though? 12:04:35 linsy_ [~ev@46.0.27.26] has joined #lisp 12:05:08 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:05:18 stassats: i have a more convenient (to me) defclass macro; but when i redefine a class, the unspecified class-options remain from the old class definition. So i do (setf (find-class class-name nil) nil). 12:05:53 oh, the more convenient defclass fallacy! 12:06:04 /o\ 12:06:42 -!- linsy [~ev@46.0.104.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:08:40 stassats: What would be the preferred way to avoid the repetition of defining an accessor for every slot? 12:08:44 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:09:05 adding an emacs shortcut, that would dwym 12:09:56 stassats: i'd still have to read it. But thanks for reminding me; i have the emacs shortcut from last time i did this. 12:10:12 i use this https://github.com/stassats/emacs-config/blob/master/init_lisp.el#L314 12:10:47 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.197] has joined #lisp 12:11:14 and you can read between the lines 12:12:42 some people also add auto-exporting feature to their defclass, which is pure madness, slime has slime-export-class for that 12:13:02 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.197] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:15:15 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.197] has joined #lisp 12:16:47 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:17:02 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 12:17:58 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:18:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:19:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:20:01 lisp in small parts link appears dead --> http://lisp.plasticki.com/, anyone knows an alternative ? 12:20:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-155.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:21:05 are you teaching your teenage daughter as well? 12:21:23 stassats: thanks for the slime-package-fu too. 12:21:56 emacs-dwim: there's a bit more details: http://slime-tips.tumblr.com/post/10851398604/exporting-symbols 12:22:04 i am just curious 12:23:20 perhaps i should add that there's now a new option, it selects the style (#: or :) automatically, based on the already used style 12:23:39 and an option to save the modified defpackage-containing file 12:25:24 replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-226-159.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 12:28:08 stassats: is there a way to set the default style to #: now? 12:28:23 there always was 12:29:18 hm. then i must be using something else. let me check. 12:30:53 i'm using slime-export-symbol-at-point, how do i set the default? 12:31:38 see the above link 12:31:54 sorry, will do, thanks! i love the feature! 12:31:58 and, woo-hoo, new slime-tips post 12:33:01 H4ns: and actually, #: is the default default 12:33:11 -!- _sg_ [51d6ff65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.214.255.101] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:33:12 but it does not work for me 12:33:23 for reasons i don't understand it defaults to :foo for me. 12:33:29 show me the value of slime-export-symbol-representation-function 12:33:38 (lambda (n) (format "#:%s" n)) 12:33:49 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 12:34:10 slime-export-symbol-representation-auto is t, though. 12:34:20 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aqs30.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:34:23 hah. it is a bug. 12:34:46 are there no symbols with : there already? 12:35:02 no, (defpackage :foo (:use :cl)) 12:35:49 oh, eh 12:35:56 homie [~homie@94.123.220.37] has joined #lisp 12:36:00 (every anything empty-list) => T 12:36:09 -!- asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:18 will fix shortly 12:36:22 says he who "does not do bugs" :) 12:36:26 thanks! 12:36:36 i only joke about not doing bugs! 12:36:43 i know. 12:36:48 no offense intended. 12:37:01 and wishfully think 12:37:28 and bloody tumblr, I can't change my post 12:41:33 H4ns: and fixed 12:41:47 i guess quicklisp users won't be all too happy about this slime-tip 12:42:04 stassats: thanks! 12:42:13 and thanks for the report! 12:42:33 and i forgot to mention you in the changelog, oh well 12:43:33 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-144-158.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:43:35 asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 12:43:52 8,( 12:48:10 -!- emacs-dwim [~user@cpe-67-249-148-53.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:49:26 ok, updated the slime-tip, mentioning the bug 12:50:28 redscare [~Adium@CP-ONE-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 12:51:35 and i can relax for another half of a year before writing my next slime-tip 12:52:35 (the only incentive being not to get removed from planet.lisp.org, of course) 12:53:01 bitonic [~user@dyn1216-133.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:53:07 buremba [58ff624a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.255.98.74] has joined #lisp 12:53:44 is there any function like set && return in lisp? 12:54:02 what does that mean? 12:54:11 (setf x 10) will return 10 12:54:29 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 12:54:47 (shiftf x 10) will return the previous value of x 12:54:57 I use Dr.Rocket in windows and it seems setf is not defined 12:55:03 -!- redscare [~Adium@CP-ONE-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:55:05 normally I use set! function 12:55:05 emacs-dwim [~user@cpe-67-249-148-53.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:08 this channel is about Common Lisp 12:55:21 yep 12:55:35 so, you need to transfer to #scheme 12:55:40 buremba: dr.rocket and set! are not common lisp. 12:55:56 thanks. 12:56:00 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-122-229.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:56:11 or rather, forget about scheme and just use Common Lisp 12:58:17 tesuji [~tesuji@mail.pit.de] has joined #lisp 12:58:26 stassats: probably it would be the best choice but in my case it's not possible. (my school enforces me to use it) :) 12:58:36 change the school! 12:58:55 but i guess you're not required to write full-blown programs in it, so it's ok 12:59:15 Why isn't there a #lang Common-Lisp in Racket? 13:00:50 it seems there is no person available at #scheme. 13:01:11 buremba: that is sad, but that is not something that entitles you to discuss your scheme problem here. 13:01:14 kofno [~kofno@72.240.63.121] has joined #lisp 13:02:37 buremba: just forget about it and write it out, it's just for school 13:05:02 -!- buremba [58ff624a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.255.98.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:06:16 -!- Xizor [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:19 (incf *SMUG-LISP-WEENIES*) 13:19:01 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-93.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:19:58 How do i do shadowing-import-from for unbound symbols? (e.g. css-lite:pt) 13:20:22 boundness doesn't matter 13:22:49 niels2 [~niels@p4FD6D86A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:49 stassats: That's what i would have expected; yet: (defpackage #:not-in-blubb (:shadowing-import-from css-lite "pt") => no symbol named "pt" in "CSS-LITE" [Condition of type SB-KERNEL:SIMPLE-PACKAGE-ERROR] 13:23:15 well, who told you to use strings? and lower-cased, at that 13:24:22 tfb [~tfb@fw-tnat.cambridge.arm.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:02 -!- niels1 [~niels@p4FD6CA1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:25:29 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 13:25:40 emacs-dwim: (:shadowing-import-from :css-lite :pt) does work, is what stassats is saying 13:26:55 or #:pt 13:27:15 or "PT" (but no) 13:27:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:27:41 ajason [~ajason@212.91.105.130] has joined #lisp 13:27:56 (as in, "would somebody think about poor modern-mode users?") 13:28:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:30:59 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:29 AeroNotix [~xeno@aqs30.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 13:34:54 stassats: sbcl told me to use string. (defpackage #:not-in-blubb (:shadowing-import-from css-lite 'pt)) => 'pt does not designate a string. As for lower-case, i had *print-case* set to :downcase. 13:35:10 of course it's not, it's a list 13:35:23 *print-case*, but not read-table-case 13:35:30 madnificent: yes, i see now that keywords work nicely. 13:36:14 clhs glossary/string designator 13:36:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_s.htm#string_designator 13:36:24 stassats: right. 13:36:45 (type-of (car '('pt))) => CONS 13:37:50 stassats: people don't even think about generating symbols correct with respect to *print-case*, so i doubt many are thinking about modern-mode 13:38:44 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:39:59 why not just: (defpackage #:not-in-blubb (:shadowing-import-from css-lite pt)) 13:40:23 Stupid question: does anyone remember the PCL release names (you will need to be quite old!) or know where they can be found 13:40:34 interning into the current package is rarely desirable 13:40:59 tfb: how about PCL source code? 13:41:13 does that live anywhere? 13:41:35 (I mean, descendents do, obviously, but is there a canonical location) 13:42:04 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 13:42:26 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/oop/clos/pcl/ 13:42:36 thx 13:43:23 warning, tarbomb 13:43:44 I remember May Day PCL... I think. 13:44:05 Cinco de Mayo, Passover, Victoria 13:44:10 -!- homie [~homie@94.123.220.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:44:20 Oh yeah. That. 13:44:22 Thra11_ [~thrall@146.90.133.72] has joined #lisp 13:44:24 "Can't think of a cute name PCL" 13:44:55 huh, there used to be DEFMETH 13:46:59 "Any person obtaining a copy of this software is requested to send their name", nice license 13:49:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:49:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:50:49 redscare [~Adium@18.205.1.172] has joined #lisp 13:51:26 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 13:51:29 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:52:01 stassats: (equal requested required) => nil 13:52:29 i don't speak legalize 13:53:12 well, what if i send a postcard? 13:53:30 oh, postcard license? :) 13:53:34 stassats: it's my take on it, ianal 13:53:37 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:53:52 sbcl sources do not contain that line 13:54:26 francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-2925067768.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:55:33 Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 13:55:54 -!- redscare [~Adium@18.205.1.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:57:55 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:58:05 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 13:59:30 yes they do 13:59:36 in the CREDITS file 14:01:14 it just says that it's not there anymore 14:02:24 moore33: did that inspire mcclim names? 14:02:44 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:03:37 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.204.138] has joined #lisp 14:04:07 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 14:06:18 ase [~se@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 14:06:30 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:07:05 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 14:07:07 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aqs30.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 14:07:07 QuickSilver_ [~ait@cpe-72-177-30-155.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:22 stassats: Probably. I think we were trying to be clever. 14:08:02 Plus, there are so many French name days / holidays to choose from... 14:08:30 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 14:08:55 no Bastille day release? 14:09:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@91-230.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:09:19 Also, we were probably counting on having more releases :) 14:09:40 well, how about 2013 Bastille day release? 14:09:52 That would be cool. 14:10:09 that would mean there have to be some changes... 14:10:27 There have probably been enough random fixes to have a new release, spread among various repos. 14:10:41 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:11:08 mathrick_ [~mathrick@80.63.227.98] has joined #lisp 14:18:38 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:19:02 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:24 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 14:24:02 skanev [~skanev@2001:470:1f15:1ca7:6d9b:47b1:71e0:f86f] has joined #lisp 14:27:29 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:27:35 nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has joined #lisp 14:28:28 is there no search facility on the clhs? 14:28:32 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-2925067768.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:28:41 scigod [~sci@111.213.186.129] has joined #lisp 14:28:46 yates: try l1sp.org 14:29:24 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 14:29:35 try google.com 14:30:06 what is the modulo function in cl? 14:30:12 clhs mod 14:30:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_mod.htm 14:30:13 clhs rem 14:30:13 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mod_r.htm 14:30:30 thank you 14:31:47 yates: also, grep can work, too 14:31:55 poorly 14:32:13 well, in this case it does 14:32:13 grepping what? 14:32:22 yates: /usr/share/doc/hyperspec/ 14:32:44 or using the Info book index, even if the format is lacking links 14:32:48 yates: or wherever you have downloaded it 14:33:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:14 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:34:25 jdz: ok, good point, too. 14:36:00 -!- scigod [~sci@111.213.186.129] has left #lisp 14:36:32 dim: info for what? sbcl? 14:37:18 i have sbcl and cl (the emacs cl package), but don't see a generic common lisp info page 14:39:05 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 14:39:24 BlastHardcheese: is this Tony? 14:39:58 homie [~homie@94.123.220.37] has joined #lisp 14:41:47 yates: M-x el-get-install RET dpans2texi RET, then you have an ansicl info book 14:41:57 and can use (info "(ansicl) mod; rem") for example 14:42:57 ah. thank you! 14:43:27 what makes you think i'm using emacs? 14:43:29 (I am!) 14:43:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:43:55 Why would you not? 14:44:07 :) 14:44:08 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:44:43 some people are possessed by vim 14:45:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:45:15 I recently picked up a bit of ViM again 14:45:48 p_l|work: there's always M-x doctor 14:46:44 is el-get-install fairly recent? i don't have it. GNU Emacs 24.0.96.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.22.1) of 2012-05-09 on randy 14:47:01 it's not present in emacs 14:47:31 stassats: huh? 14:47:57 yes 14:47:58 -!- Ralt [~Ralt@eup38-1-82-247-184-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:48:22 was not "M-x el-get-install..." a suggestion for an emacs command? 14:48:36 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 14:48:39 yates: not present by default* 14:48:47 you've to install it. 14:48:52 it's not part of the elpa package manager? 14:49:40 nop 14:51:11 which package is it ? 14:51:22 -!- p_l|work is now known as p_l 14:51:49 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 14:51:51 el-get 14:51:51 ? 14:52:04 yates: evil-mode 14:52:20 The package is called evil IIRC 14:52:21 huh? 14:52:25 -!- bxx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: quit] 14:52:33 stassats: silence ;) 14:52:39 no, it's not the package yates is asking about 14:52:58 redscare [~Adium@18.205.1.172] has joined #lisp 14:53:35 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:53:35 el-get is something dim wrote 14:53:52 reading about it here: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/el-get#toc3 14:56:43 yates: I don't know people interested in Info and not using Emacs 14:56:50 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:56:51 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:57:01 ITS hackers? 14:57:05 dim: well you can always just use it in a terminal mode: info blah 14:57:06 there's an info command that you can use without using emacs apparently, but I never saw anyone use it 14:57:19 i use it occasionally in xterm. 14:57:23 dim: I use it. 14:57:32 and el-get is a separate project 14:57:38 Well, you didn't *see* it. :D 14:57:48 -!- redscare [~Adium@18.205.1.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:57:50 naryl: +1 14:57:57 hehe, so now I know one person using info without using emacs 14:58:11 dim: nice to meet you 14:58:19 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 14:58:20 nice to meet you too :) 14:58:30 some GNU man pages ask people to refer to info (to later find out that the info page does not contain much more info, anyway) 14:58:44 jdz: i have noticed that too 14:58:51 very anti-climactic 14:59:00 i just stopped doing so 14:59:43 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:00:48 i find the "hyperspec" package (part of what's provided by quicklisp when you load slime) very helpful in emacs. 15:01:28 It's not the first time I encounter the same problem. 15:01:34 I need a class-allocated slot. 15:01:34 (load (expand-file-name "~/quicklisp/slime-helper.el")) and then (require 'hyperspec) gives me C-c-d-h access to clhs links at all times (not just in the slime repl)( 15:01:49 Which can have different values for each subclass. 15:03:09 define it for each sub-class 15:03:12 or don't do that 15:03:29 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:04:15 bitonic` [~user@dyn1197-206.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:04:50 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 15:04:55 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 15:05:04 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1216-133.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:05:18 It should have a special API for modifying it. It's wrong to make users define a slot explicitly if it will only be used through an API. 15:05:33 Basically I need to attach some arbitrary metadata to a class. 15:05:51 "should", "wrong", says who? 15:05:57 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-pvnbijokqdcnqszz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:06:06 should - me. wrong - ... common sense? :) 15:06:28 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-196-139.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 15:06:31 use MOP for arbitrary metadata 15:06:33 -!- kofno [~kofno@72.240.63.121] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06:33 kofno_ [~kofno@72.240.63.121] has joined #lisp 15:07:15 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 15:07:16 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@220.Red-79-148-146.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:28 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 15:08:44 -!- kofno_ [~kofno@72.240.63.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:47 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:10:03 stassats: or (horrors!) an alist keyed on class. 15:10:06 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:24 -!- niels2 [~niels@p4FD6D86A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:10:37 (stored in a class slot in the king class...) 15:11:33 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 15:11:56 tfb: alist can be spelled hash-table these days... but I'm sure you knew that :) 15:12:05 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@80.63.227.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:12:26 moore33: only if you plan to have a very large number of classes 15:12:43 indeed 15:13:04 the old ways are best... 15:13:08 and constantly access it randomly 15:13:56 -!- ajason [~ajason@212.91.105.130] has quit [Quit: ajason] 15:13:59 -!- replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-226-159.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:15 (if I remember results from quite recently I thingk "a very large number" is probably 20 or so) 15:15:22 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1197-206.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:53 Ralt [~Ralt@eup38-1-82-247-184-72.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:55 bitonic [~user@dyn1197-206.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:16:32 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:16:48 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 15:17:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:17:30 naryl: do class alloctated slots not work for you? or am i missing something? 15:17:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:18:06 -!- asdr__ [~the_asdr@81.214.255.101] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:18:16 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 15:18:28 jdz: naryl doesn't want to specify them for each class 15:18:33 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Client Quit] 15:18:42 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@146.90.133.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:18:51 oh, i missed that 15:19:34 time for a custom class definer macro! 15:20:05 MOP to the rescue 15:20:22 replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-226-159.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 15:23:18 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 15:25:54 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 15:26:17 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 15:26:23 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 15:26:49 in sbcl, you could use sb-pcl::plist-value and (setf sb-pcl::plist-value), which work on classes 15:28:17 arguably this is something that many potential clients want, so we could export and document it 15:28:24 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-200-191.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 15:29:46 it's not done yet because the clients have not paid enough, yet 15:30:07 or potentially 15:30:13 tfb: My first idea was to use the class naming symbol's proplist :) 15:30:16 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:30:52 -!- am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:30:52 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:32:05 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 15:32:34 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:19 -!- kmels [~kmels@p5B13F90D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:35:07 kmels [~kmels@p579D12EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:56 naryl: I think when I did this I did the class-allocated-slot-in-the-parent-class-with-an-alist/plist-on-class thing. It worked fine. I just checked but it's not code I published. 15:38:21 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:40:20 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 15:41:14 -!- kmels [~kmels@p579D12EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:43:30 asdr__ [~the_asdr@81.214.255.101] has joined #lisp 15:45:03 kmels [~kmels@p5B13DE60.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:26 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 15:46:29 bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:45 *maxm* learned that with CL, its easy to go overboard in "configurable" department 15:47:50 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:48:09 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:34 jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 15:49:00 AeroNotix [~xeno@aqs30.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:49:28 "hey I'm writing a method that does some specific thing" and brain goes "you know what would be cool? For it to call another generic function, that specializes on same args, so that in unlikely even someone ever used that code, they would be like: oh neat! I can ovverride this by overriding SOME-CRYPTIC-SOMETHING-USING-CLASS" 15:49:44 need to slap yourself back to reality when you start doing it :-) 15:51:20 you should see my software floating point code 15:52:01 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1197-206.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:31 bitonic [~user@dyn1197-206.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:53:07 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1197-206.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:18 redscare [~Adium@CP-ONE-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 15:53:35 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 15:53:39 bitonic [~user@dyn1197-206.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:54:52 MikeM` [~user@cpe-174-109-084-082.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:55:38 -!- kmels [~kmels@p5B13DE60.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:55:49 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:55:56 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1197-206.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56:22 bitonic [~user@dyn1197-206.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:57:34 -!- redscare [~Adium@CP-ONE-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:00:08 -!- kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:54 -!- tfb [~tfb@fw-tnat.cambridge.arm.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:41 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 16:04:05 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 16:10:58 kmels [~kmels@p579D1823.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@80-95-90-4.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 16:13:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@80-95-90-4.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 16:13:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:13:41 -!- dabr [~dabr@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:14:56 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:15:11 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:34 -!- MikeM` [~user@cpe-174-109-084-082.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:18:33 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:00 -!- skanev [~skanev@2001:470:1f15:1ca7:6d9b:47b1:71e0:f86f] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:22:40 doomlord [~doomlod@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:24:09 amado [~amado@187.209.61.46] has joined #lisp 16:24:42 ikki [~ikki@189.247.217.230] has joined #lisp 16:24:56 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 16:25:22 -!- nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has left #lisp 16:26:09 Thra11_ [~thrall@146.90.133.72] has joined #lisp 16:27:14 nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has joined #lisp 16:27:14 -!- nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has left #lisp 16:36:28 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:38:11 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:04 -!- Ralt [~Ralt@eup38-1-82-247-184-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:56 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 16:47:17 Ralt [~Ralt@eup38-1-82-247-184-72.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:17 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 16:48:35 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 16:48:47 linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-242-251.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:49:52 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:14 -!- tesuji [~tesuji@mail.pit.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53:03 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 16:53:09 Greetings lispers 16:53:29 Happy Thanksgiving! 16:53:41 redscare [~Adium@CP-ONE-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:53:49 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 16:54:11 yeah, happy turkey slaughter day to you too 16:54:12 ThomasH: What should I thank for? 16:54:44 -!- p9f [~stian@arachnotron.sletner.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:01 loke: I'm sure you can think of something. 16:55:04 -!- linsy_ [~ev@46.0.27.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:55:22 Hmm 16:55:30 loke: you should thank for not being kicked off this channel as you're participating in non-lisp talk :) 16:55:35 Yay! 16:55:37 Thank you! 16:55:40 :D 16:55:49 -!- QuickSilver_ [~ait@cpe-72-177-30-155.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: QuickSilver_] 16:56:14 I'm thankful that there have been 21 failed logins to my freenode account since I last logged in and it wasn't compromised. 16:56:52 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003f27.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:38 -!- paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:42 OK, I'm thankful that my code kids works, so that I can go to sleep 16:57:48 kids=kind 16:58:47 *pavelpenev* is thankful his country doesn't have horrible holidays like thanksgiving. 16:58:48 Android code. When will we get a decent way of writing Android applications in CL? 16:58:53 pavelpenev: true 16:58:54 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59:05 pavelpenev: I'm thankful that I can go to work tomorrow. 17:00:25 -!- asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:01:34 well, we do slaughter pigs for christmas, and lambs for st. George day, but then again, ritualistic slaughter of animals is not the bad part about thanksgiving. 17:01:58 *pavelpenev* is done with the OT for today 17:02:13 please. If you want to politicize thanksgiving, do it elsewhere. 17:04:20 by existing you helping bring about inevitable heat death of the universe. Lay down save the energy 17:06:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:07:28 linsy [~ev@46.0.27.26] has joined #lisp 17:07:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:08:22 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:08:57 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:09:06 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:09:36 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.73.228] has joined #lisp 17:09:43 -!- redscare [~Adium@CP-ONE-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:09:49 kofno [~kofno@72.240.63.121] has joined #lisp 17:10:26 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 17:12:54 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:13:40 -!- Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:57 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:16:10 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 17:16:21 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-241-231.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:26 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:59 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:28 ozialien_ [~ernest@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:42 any ideas on how to create softlinks on *nix from lisp? my current best bet is executing a shell command. 17:19:46 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:19:57 ffi 17:20:17 iolib should be good candidate to have that... or cl-fad 17:20:21 man symlink 17:20:21 http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man2/symlink.2.html 17:20:33 or osicat 17:20:33 osicat too, but my understanding is iolib incorporated everything osicat had 17:20:36 maxm: neither seems to have it. 17:20:44 sb-posix to the rescue! 17:20:52 and screw non-sbcl users 17:21:06 Looks like sb-posix:symlink does just that 17:21:19 and nobody stops you from just calling symlink from cffi 17:21:27 madnificent: submit request to iolib, and phrase it as it "I bet you could not add mklink to iolib in a day", to use reverse psychology on fe[nl]ix 17:21:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.217.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:21:35 (except angry windows users? 17:21:37 ) 17:21:39 maxm: :P 17:21:44 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:22:25 stassats: i should've done some cffi by now, but it never happened. so that's rather new to try. i'd rather call ln -s in that case. 17:22:34 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:45 with such attitude, you'll never start! 17:23:12 madnificent: practical solution just #+sbcl (sb-posix:symlink ...) #-sbcl (error "can't make links) or such.. 17:23:16 stassats: with the other attitude i'd have never written anything! ;) you're right though 17:23:30 maxm: i'm looking at what ECL CLISP CCL offer (in reverse order) 17:23:31 maxm: iTYM #+(and sbcl (not win32)) 17:23:32 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:23:35 madnificent: iolib.syscalls:symlink ;) 17:23:55 naryl: <3 thanks! 17:24:07 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 17:24:11 madnificent: are you on ARM? 17:24:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:24:24 stassats: no 17:24:35 so, why that selection of implentations? 17:24:44 stassats: because SBCL was already filled in 17:24:52 oh, ok then 17:26:01 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:27:23 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-068-134-236.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:28:57 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 17:29:40 looks like iolib is picky on the strings that are sent to it. but it does work, and likely mostly everywhere. so it'll do :) 17:30:14 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.73.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:31:01 -!- emacs-dwim [~user@cpe-67-249-148-53.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:33:13 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 17:44:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:55 MikeM` [~user@cpe-174-109-084-082.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:44:55 madnificent: in what sense picky ? 17:45:37 simple-strings? 17:49:06 madnificent: use iolib.os:make-symlink, that's more flexible 17:49:12 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:50:20 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 17:53:28 -!- ozialien_ [~ernest@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:29 seangrove [~user@75-140-123-123.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:59:45 -!- Shozan is now known as SHODAN 18:00:15 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:00:15 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:03:32 -!- MikeM` [~user@cpe-174-109-084-082.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:03:36 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:04:15 -!- homie [~homie@94.123.220.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:04:31 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 18:06:19 -!- hpd [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:07:09 -!- confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:07:12 hpd [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 18:09:20 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01184b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:36 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-039-183.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:52 -!- replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-226-159.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:35 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 18:14:05 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:15:07 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:15:45 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 18:16:21 arrk13 [~arrakis24@dslb-178-006-103-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:36 cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-122-229.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:20:53 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01184b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:34 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.137] has joined #lisp 18:26:41 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:27:25 if my system has some extra, rarely used functionality that depends on an external lib i don't want to add as a dependency, but the external lib doesn't put anything in *features*, is it a good idea to use find-package for conditional compilation? 18:28:08 good as in? 18:28:38 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:29:27 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.244.105] has joined #lisp 18:29:32 pavelpenev: My preference would be to create some extension package that will handle the extra functionality. 18:30:14 stassats: as in, the opposite of a bad idea. 18:30:34 i mean good for what? if it works for you, then it's good 18:30:53 but there are several catches, for example, what if the system can be loaded by asdf, but isn't loaded when yours is? 18:31:39 i seem to remember there being some conditional dependence in asdf, but i'm sure it's tricky and convoluted, it being asdf 18:32:20 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.36.39] has joined #lisp 18:32:23 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.36.39] has quit [Client Quit] 18:32:35 -!- kofno [~kofno@72.240.63.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:32:38 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.36.39] has joined #lisp 18:32:44 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:33:04 yeah, I'll have to go with ThomasH's suggestion. 18:33:18 So, create a foo-extras package, a foo-extras asdf file, and people can explicitly load foo-extras if they need it, knowing that it requires other stuff. 18:34:15 ThomasH: right, I just have to make foo, more extensible from the outside then :) 18:34:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:35:32 there's :weakly-depends-on 18:36:09 cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD34A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:06 now, how to make so that it loads a file or not loads a file based on that weak dependence, but without involving packages or any other smart reader condidionals 18:37:52 seangrov` [~user@75-140-123-123.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:38:57 please don't use that 18:39:08 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 18:39:36 there is also the option to patch the dependency to put its system name in *features* :) 18:40:10 don't do that 18:40:32 lest it becomes that each system pushes things onto *features*, which seems rather silly 18:40:57 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 18:41:13 fe[nl]ix: what are the consequences? 18:41:57 newbie_coder [~AndChat41@99.18.31.156] has joined #lisp 18:42:10 -!- seangrove [~user@75-140-123-123.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:45:04 stassats: unpredictability 18:46:27 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:46:27 if you load A then B that :weakly-depends-on A you end up with one thing, if you load B then A you end up with another thing 18:46:39 segmond_ [~AndChat41@99.18.31.156] has joined #lisp 18:46:57 -!- silenius [~silenius@brln-4dbc6092.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:07 -!- newbie_coder [~AndChat41@99.18.31.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47:24 doesn't weakly-depends-on load it if it's present? i've never used it 18:47:42 -!- segmond_ is now known as newbie_coder 18:48:36 what if it's not present and you install it afterwards ? 18:48:51 well, then you won't get that sweet optional feature 18:49:11 bsamograd [~user@108.181.149.36] has joined #lisp 18:52:08 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 18:52:49 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:54:22 -!- newbie_coder [~AndChat41@99.18.31.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:55:22 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:17 segmond_ [~AndChat41@99.18.31.156] has joined #lisp 18:58:35 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:59:00 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:59:56 -!- segmond_ is now known as newbie_coder 19:04:25 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:06:06 emacs-dwim [~user@cpe-67-241-1-145.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:11 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 19:06:56 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 19:07:34 ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.2] has joined #lisp 19:07:59 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.42.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:08:14 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1197-206.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:09:12 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:50 |3b|, there? 19:10:01 <|3b|> for a bit 19:10:44 -!- emacs-dwim [~user@cpe-67-241-1-145.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:11:10 -!- newbie_coder [~AndChat41@99.18.31.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:11:13 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:11:19 segmond_ [~AndChat41@99.18.31.156] has joined #lisp 19:11:50 -!- bsamograd [~user@108.181.149.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:52 |3b|, I'm looking at a cl-opengl tutorial, and can't understand a specific part of the syntax. do you mind taking a look? 19:12:12 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 19:12:25 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:12:26 |3b|, http://nklein.com/2010/06/nehe-tutorials-for-cl-opengl/ -- I don't understand the #<:use stuff 19:12:29 kruhft [~user@108.181.149.36] has joined #lisp 19:12:53 _segmond_ [~AndChat41@99.18.31.156] has joined #lisp 19:13:42 -!- segmond_ [~AndChat41@99.18.31.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:10 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:14:18 <|3b|> no idea, looks like something specific to that page 19:14:49 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.15.178] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:15:03 -!- _segmond_ [~AndChat41@99.18.31.156] has quit [Client Quit] 19:15:37 shwouchk: the actual code in the linked intro.lisp doesn't have any of that. odd 19:15:39 |3b|, alright, thanks 19:15:50 Bike, I know - that's all the more confusing 19:16:05 it looks like literate-programming-style weaving annotations 19:16:13 huh? 19:16:28 oh, yeah, that looks right 19:16:38 like there's the source for "glut reshape -- prepare projection" later 19:16:43 It helps readers better see the new stuff in later tutorials. 19:16:50 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:20 IIRC, there's a link to the final result at the top of each post. 19:18:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:18:07 aaaaah 19:18:10 I see now 19:18:33 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 19:18:51 pkhuong, is this some official construct, or something he made up? 19:19:17 fe[nl]ix: i didn't notice my connection to the server got cut off. it doesn't take a / at the end of the newpath, that's the first thing i noticed. i didn't find anything else. 19:19:37 His own version of a relatively well known (if rarely used) concept. 19:20:21 mrSpec [~Spec@89-78-118-138.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 19:20:21 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-78-118-138.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 19:20:21 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:21:29 I see 19:21:54 I have never understood some people's fascination with reader macros. 19:22:44 madnificent: what do you mean ? 19:24:01 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:25:20 fe[nl]ix: (iolib.syscalls:symlink "/some/existing/old/" "/some/new/") doesn't work, (iolib.syscalls:symlink "/some/existing/old/" "/some/new") does. but it really isn't that big of a deal. we have string-trim after all :) 19:26:55 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:06 madnificent: that's correct, file names cannot end in a / 19:27:11 ASau [~user@46.115.66.19] has joined #lisp 19:28:54 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:28:57 mutha [~mutha@212.91.105.130] has joined #lisp 19:29:14 kofno [~kofno@72.240.63.121] has joined #lisp 19:30:02 fe[nl]ix: right. the function i use it in takes pathnames and it makes sense to allow the newpath to be a directory in that case. that's where it bit me. 19:31:40 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:32:08 Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 19:34:10 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 19:36:27 -!- segv_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-129-033.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv_] 19:37:41 are there use cases for defstruct vs defclass, or is it always recommended to use defclass? 19:38:43 -!- seangrov` [~user@75-140-123-123.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:39:38 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:41:48 -!- mutha [~mutha@212.91.105.130] has quit [Quit: mutha] 19:42:14 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01184b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:27 pjb` [~t@voyager.informatimago.com] has joined #lisp 19:44:05 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 19:45:35 madnificent: on Unix an ending / only happens to work by accident and only sometimes, so you'd better avoid those 19:47:16 shwouchk: stick to defclass. structs are useful for performance. 19:50:10 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 19:51:12 agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:20 ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.2] has joined #lisp 19:53:54 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:08 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:12 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 19:55:16 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-122-229.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:50 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 20:01:12 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:01:30 carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has joined #lisp 20:04:44 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 20:06:02 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:07:18 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:07:43 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:08:13 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-196-139.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:41 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:50 loke_erc: org-mode integration! I know all about the that :) 20:10:38 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:11:50 ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.2] has joined #lisp 20:12:28 carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has joined #lisp 20:13:14 loke_erc: http://drewc.org/test-html/ <--- that is my 'test' website and blog all based on a single 'drewc.org.org'. Eventually it will use my SMUG parser, which will be a part of of my CL-ORG-MODE, and do that website via YACLML and my own thing that is completely related to the elisp thing it does now. 20:13:24 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:14:16 fe[nl]ix: thanks 20:14:35 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:11 mutha [~mutha@212.91.105.130] has joined #lisp 20:15:34 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:16:13 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 20:16:30 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:16:46 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aclm41.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:16:54 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:31 carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has joined #lisp 20:17:45 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:03 Joreji [~thomas@81-124.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:18:14 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:27 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:18:28 pnpuff` [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:19:01 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:19:19 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aqs30.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:20:00 -!- benny [~user@i577A106A.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:00 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:20:08 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 20:20:18 Joreji_ [~thomas@81-124.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:22:27 benny [~user@i577A106A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:22:42 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:23:08 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.133] has joined #lisp 20:23:51 drewc: do you know https://github.com/renard/o-blog ? 20:24:18 well maybe you want to see http://renard.github.com/o-blog/ first 20:25:16 oh apparently you use it already 20:26:14 dim: nope, never heard of it, don't know what org mode, blogging and emacs are all about! :) 20:26:15 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aclm41.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 20:26:37 AeroNotix [~xeno@aclm41.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:26:43 http://drewc.org/test-html/features.html <--- damn, there goes my tall tale! 20:27:15 -!- superflit [~superflit@209-181-75-74.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:27:15 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 20:27:36 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aclm41.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:27:57 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:27:59 AeroNotix [~xeno@aclm41.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:28:06 carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has joined #lisp 20:28:07 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:10 and, since there are those that go to the URLs I post () ... 20:28:21 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:45 http://drewc.org/test-html/tips/2012/11/16_this-is-a-test.html <--- If you have time and would like to give thanks, I want to test out the commenting ;) 20:29:06 minion: chant 20:29:06 MORE CONFUSING 20:29:35 drewc: it so happens that I'm blogging with Emacs and Emacs Muse, and that o-blog has been written by a friend of mine :) 20:31:30 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-155.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:47 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:32:53 w00t! I have wanted to get in touch with renard actually. So far I _love_ what he's done with things so far, and my CL-O-BLOG should of course work as well so being in touch would help there as well 20:33:13 -!- drewc [~user@74.198.150.249] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:33:42 drewc [~user@74.198.150.249] has joined #lisp 20:34:31 drewc: sometimes renard_ hangs out on freenode servers 20:34:43 and .. heh ... /quit is the wrong thing to use if you want to /part from #o-blog which you looked at to find out such things 20:34:57 I've been introducing you to him, he seems to be AFK now 20:35:38 renard_: <---- is the _the_ renard_? :):) 20:36:19 *drewc* now thinks he has made the right choice for emacs org mode blogging/website thing 20:36:22 I think he his yes 20:36:57 we hang out together on private servers usually, so I'm not used to his freenode identity 20:37:03 ping him on #emacs :) 20:37:12 can do! :) 20:37:34 -!- kofno [~kofno@72.240.63.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:37:39 -!- pnpuff` [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 20:41:07 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 20:41:52 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:42 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 20:44:34 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 20:45:06 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:31 -!- Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:24 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 20:50:37 Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.174.172] has joined #lisp 20:51:43 -!- mutha [~mutha@212.91.105.130] has quit [Quit: quit] 20:53:30 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@146.90.133.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:53:48 riverc4c [~grive@pool-71-183-214-254.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:52 superflit [~superflit@75-171-203-191.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:54 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:13 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.174.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:03:42 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:05:22 beaky [~beaky@92.96.100.66] has joined #lisp 21:05:26 hello 21:08:45 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 21:11:00 homie [~homie@94.123.220.37] has joined #lisp 21:12:43 Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.174.172] has joined #lisp 21:13:11 -!- linsy [~ev@46.0.27.26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:49 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:57 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.73.228] has joined #lisp 21:18:12 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:18:50 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 21:20:42 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-41-14.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:05 Xizor [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:25:54 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:28:54 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:33:13 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 21:40:01 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:41:56 ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.2] has joined #lisp 21:42:08 spacebat_ [spacebat@50-56-189-236.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 21:42:34 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-213-52-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:43:57 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:44:52 I've got two slime connections, one local the other remote, and for some reason a lisp file I've opened on the remote machine is associated with the local slime connection 21:45:47 spacebat_: I hope this helps: http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Multiple-connections.html 21:46:41 thanks, was flailing with this last night when it was really past my bed time 21:49:44 it doesn't seem to say how to change the connection that a buffer is tied to 21:50:26 I've chosen the remote connection as the default but the exiting buffers still point to the local connection 21:51:48 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:54:43 closing and re-opening the buffer associated it with the default connection 21:55:22 I guess its unwise to try switching a file between connections, could be a recipe for confusion 21:55:31 abeaumont [~abeaumont@220.Red-79-148-146.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:37 beaumonta [~abeaumont@220.Red-79-148-146.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:37 -!- beaumonta [~abeaumont@220.Red-79-148-146.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:08 myx 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