00:02:28 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:03:23 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 00:06:19 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-2-96.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:07:43 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:07:59 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 00:11:53 so how do I use #+debug? 00:13:50 shwouchkster: read about features. 00:14:16 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:14:31 chls features 00:14:40 clhs features 00:14:40 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for features. 00:14:44 ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:56 if you actually read the entry on #+ linked earlier, you'd see a link to "Section 24.1.2.1 (Feature Expressions)" 00:15:23 clhs 24.1.2.1 00:15:23 Feature Expressions: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/24_aba.htm 00:16:02 I did see it but at the time it seemed irrelevant 00:16:04 thanks 00:19:00 -!- bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:19:54 thanks again! 00:21:20 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@2.81.210.108] has joined #lisp 00:23:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:28:30 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-039-183.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:33:54 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:35:30 -!- tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 00:35:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:37:53 -!- shwouchkster [~shwouchk@bzq-84-110-44-159.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:19 shwouchkster [~shwouchk@bzq-84-110-44-159.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:24 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 00:48:32 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 00:49:16 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-31-29.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 00:49:36 -!- Blkt [~user@62.10.10.99] has quit [Quit: cya] 00:50:13 ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.69] has joined #lisp 00:52:28 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:52:28 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:55:37 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 00:56:29 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:57:38 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [] 00:57:47 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 00:59:23 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-31-29.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:40 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:13 -!- booguie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has 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[~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 01:26:06 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:29:31 -!- ghast [~user@host137.190-138-32.telecom.net.ar] has left #lisp 01:31:44 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:09 -!- am0c_ is now known as am0c 01:50:04 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@2.81.210.108] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 01:51:07 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 01:52:25 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@2.81.210.108] has joined #lisp 01:55:39 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:57:42 -!- nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@63.251.54.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:00:22 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: good night/dobranoc] 02:01:09 -!- ViciousPlant [ViciousPla@114.90.33.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:02:20 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@2.81.210.108] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 02:04:26 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:05:57 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 02:10:44 Summon [~Summon@gw2.sibers.com] has joined #lisp 02:23:13 am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 02:23:14 -!- sellout [~Adium@ip-64-134-223-159.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:23:14 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:24:45 -!- am0c_ is now known as am0c 02:28:50 sellout [~Adium@ip-64-134-223-159.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:10 CXMU [320e835a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.14.131.90] has joined #lisp 02:33:18 i am looking for romyromy 02:33:26 where do i find such an animal 02:33:55 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:35:40 I found http://romyromy.com/about/ using google 02:35:51 yeah 02:35:56 assuming this is who you're talking about since lisp is mentioned 02:36:02 don't think she hangs out here 02:36:11 well i came in here assuming such an animal might idle in here 02:36:23 one would think so 02:38:08 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-229-22.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 02:38:21 "Since my 2011 arrival into New York, I have moved no less than 10 times in eight months" <- noticed this on her page. person joins irc looking for an "animal" known as romyromy. Hmm, it's all coming together now I think 02:39:07 yeahhh. unclear if we can help further. 02:44:11 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:47:18 teggi [~teggi@113.173.25.203] has joined #lisp 02:49:28 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.14.183.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:49:31 hertz [~newblue@113.84.218.63] has joined #lisp 02:50:39 are you implying moving 10 times in eight months is not a normal thing 02:56:04 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 02:56:41 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:11 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.110.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:58:58 I think we're implying we don't know you or your relationship with her. 02:59:02 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.21] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:02:19 daniel1 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 03:02:40 -!- daniel1 is now known as danielmg 03:02:48 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-229-22.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:04 -!- danielmg [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 03:05:35 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-66-189.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:07:15 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 03:09:00 Enough implying. He's being creeptastic. 03:12:57 yepyep 03:15:11 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 03:22:08 joekarma|test [462439a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.36.57.169] has joined #lisp 03:22:22 -!- joekarma|test [462439a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.36.57.169] has quit [Client Quit] 03:22:22 -!- xpoqz [~xpoqz@80.203.124.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22:40 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:42 gridaphobe [~user@cpe-66-91-253-127.san.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:22:58 xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 03:23:23 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:24:11 excuseme! 03:26:32 i just assumed someone who is into lisp would probably idle here 03:27:07 i used to idle here a long time ago 03:27:45 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.242.166] has joined #lisp 03:39:12 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:39:40 ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 03:40:19 CXMU: is your name Carlos by any chance? 03:41:25 nay 03:41:52 i forgot what name i used in here 03:42:15 i was a friend of someone named rhisa who used to go here 03:42:22 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 03:44:50 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Quit: kcj] 03:44:54 jesusito [~user@74.3.16.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 03:53:43 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 03:55:24 -!- jesusito [~user@74.3.16.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:47 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:03 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:03:28 -!- benny [~user@87.122.16.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:04:20 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 04:14:08 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:17:37 -!- xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:20:12 cccccc [~cedric@pc-142-176-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:26 segmond [~AndChat41@adsl-108-67-101-33.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:49 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 04:26:13 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:26:21 -!- cccccc [~cedric@pc-142-176-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:27:26 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:27:27 benny [~user@i577A8439.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:36:59 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 04:38:09 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:39:10 -!- hertz [~newblue@113.84.218.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:40:24 -!- segmond [~AndChat41@adsl-108-67-101-33.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:40:24 -!- wuehli [~wuehlmaus@freeshell.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:41:15 wuehli [~wuehlmaus@freeshell.de] has joined #lisp 04:47:51 segmond [~AndChat41@adsl-108-67-101-33.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:12 -!- CXMU [320e835a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.14.131.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:49:23 -!- segmond [~AndChat41@adsl-108-67-101-33.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:49:32 segmond [~AndChat41@adsl-108-67-101-33.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:13 -!- segmond [~AndChat41@adsl-108-67-101-33.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:54:32 -!- ed_g [~quassel@67-5-182-223.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 04:54:51 ed_g [~quassel@67-5-182-223.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:46 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:00:04 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:04:38 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-108-45-162-198.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:11:35 -!- bps [~bps@ip68-106-240-172.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 05:12:38 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-pmrncmfhfpqahpxp] has joined #lisp 05:12:38 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-pmrncmfhfpqahpxp] has quit [Changing host] 05:12:38 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:13:55 -!- ed_g [~quassel@67-5-182-223.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:15:23 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:17:10 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.25.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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[320e835a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.14.131.90] has joined #lisp 07:00:55 does anyone know the creator of pcl 07:01:11 i remember him having spoken with him before in this channel 07:01:22 he is currently off, but you can find him as "gigamonkey" 07:01:27 thanks 07:01:54 i couldnt remember his username it was like more than 2 years ago at least 07:05:45 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:07:55 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 07:07:55 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:07:55 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:10:29 -!- gridaphobe [~user@cpe-66-91-253-127.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:13:11 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 07:20:19 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.223] has joined #lisp 07:25:53 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 07:28:00 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:29:07 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:31:02 If I want to do loop untill a user presses a certain key, what would be a good way of doing it? 07:32:51 is there a technical reason why swank/slime don't autocomplete DEFUN parameters or bindings created by LET etc.? or just because no-one implemented it yet? 07:33:34 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:35:39 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-44-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:42 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:41:54 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 07:44:51 -!- dnolen [~user@rrcs-98-101-136-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:45:21 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@222.130.236.104] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:46:27 ecraven: how would it know how to autocomplete if those are forms and symbols the user must supply? If the symbols already exist, C-M-tab should probably allow that 07:47:03 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:48:09 shwouchkster: unfortunately, like for C, the input terminal could get in the way, and there are various ways to do it depending on the libraries you'll decide to use... however, check READ-CHAR-NO-HANG 07:48:42 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-44-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:49:29 -!- shwouchkie [~shwouchk@bzq-84-110-44-159.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:50:13 phadthai, thanks. I found it but it seems to work wierdly. I'll continue checking 07:50:33 is there a reason why slime chooses sbcl over clisp by default? 07:52:23 I'm not sure, but possibly because sbcl is popular 07:52:45 but it's designed to support various lisps, any that have the necessary swank support module 07:52:50 and I recall something about sbcl having better support than clisp 07:53:24 shwouchkster: if the input terminal is buffered, it might wait until you press enter even if you try to only read a single character 07:53:53 I see 07:54:02 shwouchkster: lisp streams may also be buffered on unbuffered depending, but the terminal itself can cause an issue (i.e. on unix, termios may be necessary) 07:55:07 unix terminals in canonical mode only send whole blocks 07:56:10 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 07:56:58 I'm willing to take a whole line 07:57:24 shwouchkster: yeah, but the thing is - it will only send it after user hitting "enter" or C-d 07:57:30 even in C often curses, ncurses, terminfo, termcap etc are used as abstractions which will deal with the buffering ioctls, you could also use ffi wrappers to those 07:57:46 ffi? 07:57:52 foreign functions interface 07:57:53 in order to actually listen to keypresses, you need to switch away from canonical mode 07:58:27 i.e. see http://cliki.net/CL-Ncurses 07:58:39 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 07:59:00 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:59:03 brandonz_ [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:59:04 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:59:08 or http://cliki.net/trivial-raw-io for a lower level interface to unix termios 07:59:27 thanks 07:59:37 -!- cxmu [320e835a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.14.131.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:59:51 or http://cliki.net/CLTIO 08:00:03 note that I only used cliki.net to find those, there may be others 08:00:23 maybe iolib also permits it I'm not sure 08:00:48 but iolib also provides file descriptor polling 08:00:57 I see 08:01:00 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 08:01:11 question 3 08:01:12 2 08:01:25 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:01:26 why does slime use sbcl by default? 08:02:04 is it because it is faster? 08:02:16 sbcl is faster than clisp yes 08:02:38 02:52 and I recall something about sbcl having better support than clisp 08:02:43 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 08:02:45 ah 08:02:56 ok, another one 08:03:21 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 08:03:41 I just saw the previous answer now 08:04:03 finally, I have some code I want to lunch at program startup 08:04:52 lisp should execute what is at the toplevel of a file when loading it, unless it has a special EVAL-WHEN restricting it 08:04:53 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 08:05:06 i.e. code outside a function 08:05:13 but when I run it from slime and from sbcl in general it gets messed up 08:05:43 it polls keyboard before printing, when in the code I first print and then poll 08:05:51 poll=read 08:05:58 hmm perhaps slime is interfering, especially if there's input 08:06:07 yes, there is 08:06:23 but as we discussed earlier there's also the input buffering that could be problematic 08:06:24 phadthai, thing is it happens even if I run sbcl -eval file.lisp 08:06:39 and the terminal itself 08:06:47 or tty 08:06:58 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-44-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:05 phadthai, shouldn't it first print the output to one line before proceeding to execute the next? 08:07:22 did you try adding terpri? 08:07:34 no 08:07:35 the output lisp stream can also be buffered 08:07:36 -!- _spearalot_ [~qalixa@194.218.229.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:07:38 what is it? 08:07:42 ah 08:07:58 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.81] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:08:19 and finish-output if I remember 08:08:54 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_terpri.htm#terpri 08:09:05 hmm ok that one only outputs an end line character 08:09:11 err newline 08:09:30 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_finish.htm 08:09:39 the hyperspec is a very useful reference 08:09:46 _spearalot_ [~qalixa@194.218.229.107] has joined #lisp 08:11:22 :) 08:11:24 thanks 08:11:57 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012926.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:11:59 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 08:14:52 you're welcome; btw emacs+slime can also be configured to easily lookup the hyperspec for symbols and open the page in a browser, it's quite nice 08:15:17 sometimes tricky to configure depending on browser though 08:15:37 phadthai, I acutally was finally able to do it today 08:15:44 nice 08:15:48 C-c C-d h 08:16:36 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:18:48 tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:48 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:22:40 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:26:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:31:38 mathrick [~mathrick@80.63.227.98] has joined #lisp 08:38:33 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-66-189.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:38:33 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.202.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:39:22 engblom` [~user@86-60-152-181-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi] has joined #lisp 08:41:13 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 08:41:39 -!- engblom [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:42:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:43:31 kennyd 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[~jtza8@105-236-192-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:10 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 09:18:50 -!- qlkzy [qlkzy@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:4a4a] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 09:19:20 qlkzy [qlkzy@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:4a4a] has joined #lisp 09:24:33 http://wukix.com/mocl <--- interesting 09:24:47 I wonder if anyone here is using it 09:25:03 not yet available publicly 09:25:09 or if it's cursed to remain vapour ware 09:25:29 yes 09:25:45 the description only says it generates C code, but ECL does the same 09:25:48 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-hhcprtkvxpyschon] has joined #lisp 09:26:15 so just compilation of lisp to c is not new (gcl also does this) 09:26:34 antonv: both ECL and GCL forked from the same implementation 09:30:14 I think that ECL has been used on those platforms 09:30:35 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:46 -!- 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[~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 10:53:00 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-250-98.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 10:55:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:55:15 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:55:21 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 10:55:43 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 11:00:09 add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-63-146.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:02:55 liweinan [~liweinan@222.130.236.104] has joined #lisp 11:10:36 -!- am0c [~am0c@183.96.27.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:12:00 ehu [~ehu@31.136.177.118] has joined #lisp 11:16:32 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 11:22:18 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:28:31 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@222.130.236.104] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:16 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 11:30:32 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-84-229.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 11:30:34 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 11:30:53 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 11:32:07 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:32:39 ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 11:35:58 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:50 phadthai: autocomplete should get the entire expression (like autodoc does), then this would be possible 11:38:42 -!- findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:39:11 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-212-180.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 11:40:33 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 12:01:34 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote 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Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 13:04:03 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 13:04:05 good evening 13:06:57 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.14.183.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 13:10:15 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:35 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has joined #lisp 13:12:04 -!- hugod [~user@rrcs-98-101-136-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:14:32 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:15:04 ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 13:15:10 ikki [~ikki@189.247.224.102] has joined #lisp 13:15:35 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:56 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:16:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.158] has joined #lisp 13:16:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.158] has quit [Changing host] 13:16:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:23:51 benny [~user@i577a8439.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:24:38 xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:24:45 i have a commandline app that i build with buildapp. running the executable is fine, but how can i run the source to test the commandline without building the executable? 13:24:55 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:10 eMBee: by manually calling the default function? 13:35:13 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 13:35:47 eMBee: Just how you did it during the development, assuming you used SLIME. 13:36:06 -!- fsvehla [~Fullmoon@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 13:36:18 Or you can load the source and run the function with -exec arguments to most implementations. 13:36:23 fsvehla [~Fullmoon@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 13:36:26 *-eval 13:36:54 --eval for sbcl 13:37:20 -!- fsvehla [~Fullmoon@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Client Quit] 13:37:40 fsvehla [~Fullmoon@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 13:37:55 paolo_m [~user@2.228.95.110] has joined #lisp 13:38:13 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 13:38:19 i used to call it with sbcl --script ...; but now i converted it to a package and when i try that it stumbles over the in-package declaration, not surprising because that's in package.lisp not the main file 13:38:44 i specifically want to test the commandline 13:38:58 --load 13:39:16 or --eval "(asdf:load-system ...)" 13:39:21 -!- fsvehla [~Fullmoon@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Client Quit] 13:39:26 If you use asd. 13:39:31 (You should :]) 13:39:40 fsvehla [~anonymous@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 13:39:42 i used quickpackage to create the package 13:40:08 which uses asdf 13:40:43 -!- fsvehla [~anonymous@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has left #lisp 13:41:06 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 13:42:25 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:43:15 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:43:36 load just gives me the repl, i want to call (main argv) directly from the commandline 13:44:33 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:37 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:44:37 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 13:45:44 You can use many --load and --eval arguments 13:46:52 ah, yes, i just noticed 13:46:58 bitonic [~user@dyn1213-58.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:49:34 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello084113224021.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:50:17 hugod [~user@rrcs-98-101-136-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:21 -!- hugod [~user@rrcs-98-101-136-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:53 hugod [~user@rrcs-98-101-136-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:57 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.245] has joined #lisp 13:54:58 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 13:55:17 daniel2 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 13:55:51 -!- daniel2 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 13:58:13 ok, that works, thanks 13:59:07 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.190] has joined #lisp 13:59:19 however i need to eval three statements. i'd like to put them in a file and load that with --script but that gives me: The name "ASDF" does not designate any package. 14:00:06 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:00:19 daniel2 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 14:00:49 -!- daniel2 is now known as danielmg 14:00:53 -!- danielmg [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 14:01:07 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 14:02:56 mccolgst [~smccolgan@216.214.197.66] has joined #lisp 14:06:43 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 14:09:38 ok the reason is this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4914636/lisp-as-a-shebang-script-vs-lisp-running-in-slime 14:09:46 -!- echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:24 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:13:50 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:14:30 holy shit 14:14:38 hmmm, wrong chan, sorry 14:15:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:15:55 eMBee: --script skips all init files. Use --load too. 14:16:28 segv_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-116-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:48 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.202.129] has joined #lisp 14:19:55 well, i do want to skip most of the init because that takes a while 14:20:14 i just copied the relevant part into my run script 14:21:48 so i am loading "quicklisp/setup.lisp" and then use (ql:quickload) 14:22:42 now i wonder if i can tell (ql:quickload) to be silent 14:28:16 eMBee: or there's https://github.com/rpav/ScriptL (shameless plug) 14:28:21 -!- peterhil- [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:28:45 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.245] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:54 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.245] has joined #lisp 14:30:15 eMBee: try (let ((*standard-output* (make-broadcast-stream))) ; load stuff here) 14:31:59 that was in lisptips. http://lisptips.com/page/5 14:32:01 sellout1 [~Adium@ip-64-134-223-159.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:39 Xizor [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:32:53 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:33:00 ah, nice 14:33:41 Ts-Kulla [~ODD@62.212.85.249] has joined #lisp 14:33:47 -!- sellout [~Adium@ip-64-134-223-159.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:33:52 heloo good day 14:33:55 perfect, thank you! 14:33:59 what kind of programming is lisp 14:34:10 i also have a qeustion for the die hards in here 14:34:12 the leet people 14:34:16 i start it with 14:34:18 basic C 14:34:28 i wane know what i should learn to make programms 14:34:31 Ts-Kulla: can you please use fewer lines for your question, thank you. 14:34:35 that can connect with the word wild network 14:34:41 oke H$ns 14:35:06 h4ns you from netherlands 14:35:34 sombody can help me ?? 14:35:55 Practical Common Lisp, emacs, sbcl, slime, a library of your choice for http requests 14:36:05 phad i speak about C 14:36:34 phad 14:36:49 the tree in the garden :) 14:36:51 i lisp a hard language to learn 14:36:58 is* 14:37:35 ?? 14:37:37 if it is, there is a good introductory book called Introduction To Symbolic Computation (if I remember the name right) 14:37:53 "a gentle introduction to symbolic computation" 14:37:54 that begins with the very basics 14:37:58 thanks H4ns 14:38:03 basic about lisp 14:38:06 or about C 14:38:16 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:38:18 Lisp of course, this is #lisp :) 14:38:21 Ts-Kulla: we talk about lisp here and generally don't recommend books on c. 14:38:37 h4ns 14:38:37 -!- xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:38:45 tell about this lisp 14:38:49 is it hard to learn 14:39:05 i am noob dude a beginner in programming 14:39:06 xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:07 Ts-Kulla: yes. please have a look at an introduction to lisp NOW. 14:39:27 where i look 14:40:12 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 14:41:18 oke but i like to here from you people 14:41:28 is it a hard to learn or is it no so hard 14:41:31 what i can do with lisp 14:41:35 oGMo: ScriptL is making a script that talks to a running lisp? 14:41:42 Ts-Kulla: it is hard to learn. 14:42:11 really dude 14:42:35 h4ns most i know somthing before i start with Lisp 14:42:38 as a beginner 14:43:04 Ts-Kulla: Go read that book before you ask more questions. 14:43:39 eMBee: basically .. your "script" runs in the running lisp, but you get all the normal shell things .. i/o, getenv, readline, args, etc 14:43:39 but it i better for me to hear from you people 14:43:54 it is better to hear it from you people 14:44:02 eMBee: and cwd, of course 14:44:02 I'm a relative newcomer, but I've been programming in C/C++ and others for a while. Check out PCL: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 14:44:05 it is always good to hear form people how know this 14:44:07 Ts-Kulla: No, now you have heard. Please stop being obnoxious. 14:44:25 jack rabbit 14:44:28 Ts-Kulla, Set up slime, sbcl, and emacs, and you'll have fun. 14:44:39 i dont know this jack 14:44:55 Ts-Kulla, It's not hard. Look up documentation online. 14:44:56 Ts-Kulla: then go and investigate 14:44:57 what fuck is a slime dude 14:45:02 Ts-Kulla: google knows 14:45:13 nigger what you wil do when i start say to you 14:45:15 port scaning 14:45:17 footprinting 14:45:20 geting usernames 14:45:21 lol 14:45:22 geting data 14:45:24 shit nigga 14:45:29 Here we go. 14:45:29 . 14:45:33 please kick 14:45:33 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o fe[nl]ix 14:45:36 :P 14:45:37 Ts-Kulla: ga maar terug naar school 14:45:41 ahaha 14:45:48 gast ik zit zonder school 14:45:52 -!- fe[nl]ix has set mode +b *!~ODD@62.212.85.* 14:45:52 -!- Ts-Kulla [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has been kicked from #lisp by fe[nl]ix (Ts-Kulla) 14:46:03 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o fe[nl]ix 14:46:07 -!- hugod [~user@rrcs-98-101-136-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:46:09 ...Bummer... 14:46:37 surrounder: you're dutch too? 14:46:41 yes 14:46:50 we should start trolling channels together 14:47:03 I'd rather not 14:47:07 oGMo: interesting 14:47:17 surrounder: :) 14:48:04 -!- zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-111-169-176-119.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:48:31 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello084113224021.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:49:57 -!- _spearalot_ [~qalixa@194.218.229.107] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:50:32 oGMo: where is your readline coming from? 14:51:09 eMBee: from readline .. there's a C client and that's what links readline 14:51:23 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 14:51:46 (if there could be a trivial lisp client, you wouldn't really need it in the first place) 14:52:58 oh, ok, i was wondering because i am in the process to add readline support to my application 14:53:13 why not use linedit? 14:53:17 so i thought i could use yours as an example 14:53:26 i am going to use linedit 14:53:31 ah .. well if you have a full-on app you probably want to actually dump an image and make a binary etc, not use scriptl 14:54:01 i am doing that, the script is for development as i don't everytime want to rebuild 14:54:18 although i need to look at what's faster :-) 14:54:42 because starting sbcl with quicklisp is also a bit slow :-) 14:54:54 eMBee: it can definitely be helpful to dump even an image containing partial dependencies 14:55:02 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:55:14 `fogus [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 14:55:33 alternatively, CCL has insanely fast fasl load times 14:55:49 -!- `fogus is now known as fojure 14:55:54 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 14:56:17 -!- sellout1 is now known as sellout 14:57:56 that's how it should be, what's the point of compiling if it's not faster 14:58:29 error checking 15:01:36 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:01:56 sorry, i meant saving the fasl, loading the source should still compile it before running, or is that different? 15:02:42 faster runtime after loading :) 15:02:53 <|3b|> loading doesn't have to compile 15:03:05 eMBee: the last two questions are really hard to answer because of the vague referent for "it" 15:04:45 <|3b|> some implementations compile everything by default (or don't even have options to not compile), and some only compile when you tell them to (and spec only requires macroexpansion for 'compilation', so they might not do much even when compiling) 15:05:52 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05:58 *eMBee* nods 15:07:47 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 15:07:59 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 15:08:38 aerique [310225@194.109.21.8] has joined #lisp 15:09:32 bitonic` [~user@dyn1222-76.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:09:55 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1213-58.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:11:20 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 15:12:50 -!- niels1 [~niels@p4FD6D568.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:13:37 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:17:18 romanab [~androirc@adsl-76-254-25-65.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:19 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:23:36 fe[nl]ix: not that i find your kick to be unjust or even unwelcome, but Ts-Kulla was apparently genuienly interested in learning how to code. he's learning C now and will get on gentle afterwards. have a nice day! 15:24:00 he was an asshole 15:24:02 heh 15:24:15 I'm interested in learning, you don't see me being a disturbance to the room 15:24:39 Someone genuinely interested should listen to advice given and not be a dick 15:24:53 lispers already got reputations for being assholes, we don't need any more. lol 15:24:57 i'd say Ts-Kulla was a help vampire but i don't think he was that subtle 15:25:31 It's difficult to believe he was serious with all that spam. 15:25:32 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:26:16 it's hard to believe anyone is serious if they can't bother to google and research the most simple things, imho 15:27:21 True. Although I've been directed away from this channel myself once or twice for things that were "simple," but seemed not-so to me. 15:27:51 if you don't have some amount of "baseline" clue, you can't distinguish good google results from bad. People who do have the clue kind of develop blindness, as they are not aware they only see "useful" google results, and ignoring the rest without being conscious of the the process 15:27:52 (Not that I feel I can complain) 15:27:54 The racial slurs and threats to crack into people's boxes was the reason he got banned not his lack of taking time to google. 15:28:01 sure, but even in this case people _were_ giving links/references/etc 15:28:06 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.224.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:29:37 maxm: yeah that's why i usually make sure googling a simple term produces a useful result in the top 2-3 spots 15:29:40 anyhow 15:31:02 hiro3 [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:31:05 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:35 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 15:32:52 BTW The Land of Lisp is great fun. I got it in the mail yesterday. 15:33:11 Cymew, all Lisp books are great fun. :p 15:33:12 *Cymew* changing subject, subtly 15:33:19 newbie_coder: indeed! >( 15:33:23 madnificent: if he can't behave, it doesn't matter how sincere his interest is 15:33:23 oops 15:33:31 :) I mean 15:34:35 I haven't gotten to Land of Lisp yet, but I look forward to it. I started last month, I finished Successful Lisp, CL - Gentle Intro... and CL - Interactive Approach. 15:35:35 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@80.63.227.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:36:03 My biggest problems with good books is they make me all enthusiastic about a new project and then I never finish the book nor the project. 15:36:14 Currently reading ANSI CL, & Practical Common Lisp, after these I'll hit Land of Lisp and Winston & Horn. 15:36:20 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-74-49.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:36:35 Cymew, I have a list of around 15 books to finish, I'm intent on being a little competent in Lisp when I'm done. hehe 15:36:47 Good plan! ;) 15:36:50 It get's easier after you are done with the first two 15:36:52 mathrick [~mathrick@80.63.227.98] has joined #lisp 15:37:07 fe[nl]ix: i agree. i initially assumed he was trolling, and that didn't seem to be the case. hence my comment. i don't expect a different action in the future. 15:37:11 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.245] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:18 newbie_coder: if you've read a book or two you should probably jump in and just write something ;) 15:37:25 I want to be able to look at SBCL source and not pee all over myself. 15:37:36 LoL reminded me of FLET which is a Good Thing 15:37:49 oGMo, yes, I'm playing around, but I don't want to write anything yet, 15:37:51 newbie_coder: I agree woth oGMo 15:37:51 newbie_coder: That is big, look at something smaller! 15:37:54 s/woth/with/ 15:38:00 newbie_coder: I am jealous of your time.... Here I am having a chance to learn lisp about 1-2 hours a week, which means very slow progress. 15:38:27 engblom, I work full time too 15:38:32 newbie_coder: if you come from C land, writing an FFI wrapper is probably a good place to start .. you get to take familiar constructs and make them into lisp-like things, see how lisp handles things, etc 15:38:36 as needed when you have more experience you can look back at refactoring older projects, which is also good for another aspect of lisp learning 15:39:15 phadthai, that's what I plan to do, find an old abandoned project and bring it back to life... 15:39:17 no code is perfect 15:39:52 newbie_coder: I have family, a house building project, violin lessons and a disease which makes me tired... 15:39:59 oGMo, I'm doing PHP now, I looked at the FFI wrapper, that will be fun to play with. But I was wondering, why don't people just use SWIG since it supports CL? 15:40:08 and work in progress code is something lisp is very nice for (incremental development, prototyping) 15:40:29 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:40:51 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:41:08 newbie_coder: they do, but .. i've used it for a few things and essentially i have a custom hack of swig to actually generate something useful/correct. and that's only the starting point, too .. making it lispy is the other 90% 15:42:37 ah okay, i haven't played with it yet, I'm giving myself from now till ending of Jan to learn, I figure by Jan, I should have covered a good 8 books, probably touched a bit of Onlisp then I will start doing "useful" work 15:43:33 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@80.63.227.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:44:01 Everyone learns differently. If it works for you, great. 15:44:06 you're not going to really learn without doing .. once you know the basics and how to look things up in clhs, you're pretty set to go 15:44:24 oGMo, like Cymew said, everyone learns differently 15:44:30 madrik [~user@122.168.172.223] has joined #lisp 15:44:36 I'm learning just fine, I'm doing because I read while I'm in the REPL 15:44:42 I agree with oGMo, but don't let that stop you! ;) 15:44:47 and I type out lots of examples and experiment, I'm not reading passively 15:44:51 What is the best interactive lisp tutorial? I have seen that there are a few... 15:44:54 newbie_coder: something that worked well for me personally was to write a toy lisp in C, and then another under sbcl which compiles to x86; I understood macros, gc, etc. a lot more after struggling with their implementation 15:45:16 sure but books don't usually tell you a lot of the everyday things you run into ;) 15:45:20 Have fun, gotta split 15:45:35 yrk, well, when I read winston & horn, i know there's alittle lisp interpreter towards the middle chapter, and then I'll read Lisp in Small pieces next year. 15:45:58 I'll get to groking the internals, it's all a matter of time. 15:46:03 hmm maybe "lisp in small parts" or such 15:46:10 ah yes pieces :) 15:46:13 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.199] has joined #lisp 15:46:47 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-127-209.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:54 Yeah, that's going to be one of the last ones I touch, with AMOP, CLTL2 and Let over Lambda. I have my reading list lined up. :p 15:47:05 there's an interactive development aspect with lisp that's also hard to learn without practice 15:47:40 phadthai, isn't being in the REPL all day playing around part of that? 15:48:13 i.e. where to use defconstant, defvar, defparameter, setf, let, clos (and the various clos special dynamic features like class changes and migration) 15:48:22 newbie_coder: sure 15:48:36 but also when developing code and refactoring it 15:48:52 I'll get there, I'm just one month in. :) 15:48:57 at first I personally remember having to restart my image often as I'd corrupt it regularily 15:49:03 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:49:26 symbol interning, importing/exporting, shadowing and packages are also tricky for that at first 15:49:49 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:50:15 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:13 web apps in lisp... a sane thing to do? 15:51:28 yes 15:51:32 next question 15:51:37 newbie_coder: anyway, I'm just encouraging you to begin coding, there's nothing wrong with reading :) 15:51:45 phadthai, thanks. :) 15:51:51 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 15:52:48 mccolgst: a pleasure in lisp; amongst other perks, you can write markup in the form of sexps 15:53:26 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:53:29 Interesting, next question: I come from a python background, is Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation a good place to start? 15:53:51 also look at Practical Common Lisp, in case you find the former too introductory 15:53:53 mccolgst, yeah, but the first few chapters might be a bit slow for you 15:53:54 ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:05 Thanks, all! 15:54:05 it picks up towards the later chapters 15:54:59 -!- bitonic` [~user@dyn1222-76.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:12 bitonic` [~user@dyn1223-73.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:59:12 -!- xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:41 xpoqz [~xpoqz@80.203.124.203] has joined #lisp 15:59:51 I guess my next question is that I'm confused on implementations of CL, which is the easiest to get started if I have Mac OSX 16:00:18 I would say CCL, mccolgst 16:00:19 mccolgst: CCL 16:00:26 Thank you! 16:00:34 nowadays apparently you can easily brew install sbcl, though 16:00:54 but CCL ships macosx binaries so that you don't have to bother much about it, svn co and there you go 16:01:03 awesome 16:01:38 (it also comes with Cocoa integration and some other mac specifics) 16:01:55 hugod [~user@rrcs-98-101-136-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:03:15 hswe [~hswe@san.space150.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:54 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-hhcprtkvxpyschon] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:10:27 doomlord_ [~doomlord@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:54 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 16:17:13 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 16:21:26 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 16:22:19 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-74-49.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:31:43 booguie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:05 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:37:41 pfeilstorch [~shane@108-77-138-62.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:45 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:38:38 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:43:55 -!- pfeilstorch [~shane@108-77-138-62.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 16:45:33 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:46:45 -!- ehu [~ehu@31.136.177.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:47:07 ehu [~ehu@31.136.177.118] has joined #lisp 16:52:08 -!- sellout [~Adium@ip-64-134-223-159.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:52:27 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:53:41 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757559.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:36 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 16:55:49 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 16:56:59 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-094-219-144-175.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:02:17 Toom [~Toom@183.36.48.27] has joined #lisp 17:03:26 sellout [~Adium@ip-64-134-223-159.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:49 tfb [~tfb@fw-tnat.cambridge.arm.com] has joined #lisp 17:11:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:15 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-225-069.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:50 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 17:13:01 http://wukix.com/mocl 17:13:38 Anyone know anything about that? 17:14:36 jasom: it was on planet.lisp.org, but there's little to find about it. 17:15:13 -!- paolo_m [~user@2.228.95.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:57 *jasom* wonders if it's based off of Kyoto or if it's a greenfields implementation 17:16:13 AeroNotix [~xeno@alt130.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:17:08 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:17:58 ikki [~ikki@187.240.220.116] has joined #lisp 17:19:24 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 17:24:36 -!- ehu [~ehu@31.136.177.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:26:26 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A2D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:37 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 17:29:02 -!- Toom [~Toom@183.36.48.27] has quit [] 17:29:28 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195.160.233.181] has left #lisp 17:30:36 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:31:14 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:06 -!- ViciousPlant [ViciousPla@114.90.55.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:36:06 -!- hugod [~user@rrcs-98-101-136-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:40:50 what's to know? Seems self-evident 17:40:52 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:27 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:41:34 also would assume it's a CLIPS fork 17:41:39 *CLISP 17:42:02 I don't think clisp compiles to C 17:42:13 which they claim this does 17:42:18 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 17:43:54 anyone asked for a developer preview? 17:45:47 zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has joined #lisp 17:45:51 -!- swilde [~wilde@aktaia.intevation.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:28 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 17:47:30 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:48:00 gendl [~gendl@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:28 General question: what gives the most bang for the buck in a processor for running Common Lisp? 17:48:39 is it mainly about raw clock speed, 17:48:54 yes 17:49:26 (actually, i don't know) 17:49:29 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-039-183.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:58 yeah you have to define "bang". Ideally having been microcoded for lisp would bang hardest. 17:50:17 sure. 17:50:26 or having usermicroprogrammabilty so the lisp implementation could use 17:50:32 -!- pxp [~pxp@72.185.225.68] has left #lisp 17:50:38 but the immediate question is pretty much a price/performance choice 17:51:02 it's just the same as anything: you want good memory bandwidth, enough cache and good I/O 17:51:28 hmm, so "bang" turns out to be "for the bucks" 17:51:37 yes for the bucks 17:51:57 for example ServerBeach offers these old Xeon E5420's 17:52:14 dual quad-core, 2.5GHz, 15GB RAM, $179/month 17:52:16 so that's it 17:52:46 or this new E5-2630 17:52:47 the presumption would have been that you were talking about an embedded system processor or something 17:52:56 what's your application: typically that's the question you want to ask first 17:53:00 dual six-core with hyper threading, 17:53:11 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 17:53:13 but generally anything that makes anything else fast will make Lisp fast 17:53:28 it's a long time since the special-HW thing went away 17:53:50 the application is a running several Lisp instances on a back-end server 17:54:15 running a frontend on port 80 on a different machine, proxying the requests to the backend server(s) 17:54:17 OK, so have you profiled them and understand where the time is going and what the bottlenecks are 17:54:35 i think bottleneck is mostly CPU 17:54:50 calls into a C/C++ solids geometry kernel 17:55:00 so actually it might be more of a C/C++ application at that point 17:55:10 that would be my guess :-) 17:55:27 (I mean: I bet the time is spent in the geomerty stuff) 17:55:44 so basically we have a bunch of separate Lisp processes on the server, 17:55:51 and want to maximize the CPU throughput 17:56:06 one big question is how much does Hyperthreading really add? 17:56:19 6-core with hyper threading shows up as 12 cores in Linux 17:56:45 will this really perform comparably to a 12-core non-HT machine ? 17:57:00 for running a bunch of single-threaded Lisp processes 17:57:01 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:57:14 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-250-98.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:58:10 gendl: like all performance questions, it is not possible to give a good general answer. 17:58:48 I suspect HT is not great for really independent things because of cache problems 17:58:51 gendl: it depends on your workload entirely. if it can utilize those cpu resources that are actually available two times in the core, hyperthreading can be very effective. 17:59:26 we are talking about completely independent Lisp processes 17:59:29 no shared memory 18:00:30 you can still do well on instruction caches of course, at least in theory 18:00:34 yep 18:00:43 gendl: what tfb says, in that case. you might see all the hyperthreading advantage be eaten by cache misses. 18:01:31 peterhil- [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 18:01:42 you can try switching hyperthreading off and see if it performs better 18:02:05 But I'd go back to what I said (did I?) above: you need to measure it, if you possibly can (including looking at HW perf counters to see where the time is really going) 18:02:38 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:02:46 let's assume most time is going into floating-point number crunching 18:03:06 pure CPU, not so much I/O, not so much memory bandwidth 18:03:11 then what is the deal with clock speed? 18:03:11 gendl: assumption is not a good strategy here 18:03:26 I know. But let's assume one thing at a time. 18:03:27 what H4ns said: don't assume, measure 18:03:57 this old E5420 from 2007 is 2.5GHz, 18:04:10 the new E5-2630 from 2012 is 2.3GHz 18:04:34 this must not be comparing apples to apples -- there is something about the new 2.3GHz which is different from the old 2.5GHz, isn't there? 18:04:50 gendl: think pipeline depth, superscalar execution. 18:04:51 the new one probably sustains n times as many IPC 18:05:07 something about bus/core ratio? 18:05:45 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-84-229.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 18:07:37 anyway this isn't really Lisp specific anymore, thanks for answering! 18:09:07 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.14.183.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:09:15 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 18:10:16 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:50 -!- zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:17:09 silenius [~silenius@brln-4d0c296e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:05 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.186.68.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 18:18:55 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.52.139] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:10 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 18:24:24 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.172.223] has left #lisp 18:25:44 -!- tfb [~tfb@fw-tnat.cambridge.arm.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121025210744]] 18:29:39 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:32:57 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:33:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:33:30 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:36:46 cxmu [320e835a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.14.131.90] has joined #lisp 18:36:55 lol 18:36:58 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 18:37:06 hello zelda fans 18:37:30 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 18:37:35 wasn't really lisp specific from the jump 18:39:52 `Jake` [~jake@p5B3AB1E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:59 -!- `Jake` [~jake@p5B3AB1E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 18:44:36 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@alt130.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 18:46:11 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 18:46:19 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.180] has joined #lisp 18:46:28 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 18:48:21 kmels [~kmels@p5B13FABE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:34 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-65.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:52:50 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 18:59:37 cabaire [~nobody@p54A74B9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:29 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:12 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 19:03:17 djuber [~user@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:56 hugod [~user@rrcs-98-101-136-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:08:00 DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:08:31 -!- segv_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-116-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv_] 19:08:38 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:12:59 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13:14 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1223-73.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:14:42 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:56 flanfl [~flanfl@ABordeaux-651-1-35-133.w109-223.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:16:29 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:21 flip214: print ""+-0 19:19:58 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:21:14 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 19:27:32 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-74-49.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:36 clhs *compile-file-pathname* 19:29:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_cmp_fi.htm 19:29:59 Posterdati: GOTO val(a$) 19:30:56 flip214: READY. 19:31:59 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:32:56 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:32:56 -!- sellout [~Adium@ip-64-134-223-159.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:33:31 sellout [~Adium@ip-64-134-223-159.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:33 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-108-45-162-198.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:55 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:36:17 -!- cxmu [320e835a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.14.131.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:37:02 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:38:17 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 19:43:59 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 19:44:06 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:00 what's it with the DO in the beginner "find my bug" questions recently? 19:46:09 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@ABordeaux-651-1-35-133.w109-223.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:45 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 19:48:29 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 19:49:45 ASau [~user@176.5.45.97] has joined #lisp 19:50:18 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:52:12 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:54 so, about hash table implementation, 2 questions: 1. is it common to find adaptative implementation switching from a list backend to something else after a size threshold, and 2. where can I read about that? (source code reference is ok) 19:54:20 dim: i doubt they ever use a list. lists tend to be relatively slow in comparison to arrays even for relatively small lengths. you should try it, but i seem to recall dto doing some measurements in which hash-tables were faster than lists when 10 items or so were contained in them (possibly even a lower number, but the order is about right iirc). 19:54:38 -!- intinig [~user@93-50-99-219.ip152.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:54:56 _0bitcount [~ulises11@213.37.255.180.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:56 Depends. Linear (or even quadratic) probing or inline buckets would implicitly lead to that. Otherwise, I don't think it's common. It may also not be a win at all in the general case (e.g. with string keys). 19:56:47 does anyone have a working email address for james bielman? his common-lisp.net forward bounces, and i'd like to either have him notified or change his alias. 19:57:22 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@213.37.255.180.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:57:53 H4ns: I have jamesjb @ same thing .com, from 2007. 19:58:10 pkhuong: that's the one which does not work anymore. 19:58:42 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:40 the use case for my hash table vs list implementation question is not CL, it's PostgreSQL C code, but I figured CL would have some history to offer on the question 19:59:41 francogrex [~user@109.130.42.66] has joined #lisp 19:59:54 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-194-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:57 uh, james j bielman of sbasic fame :) 20:00:18 Anybody know anything about this mocl thing? http://wukix.com/mocl 20:01:44 gigamonkey: it is the question of the day and there were no useful answers yet :) 20:01:51 gigamonkey: i've only seen questions pass by, no answers 20:02:12 :-( 20:02:24 any suggestions with this appreciated. It's not strictly lisp, but I/O general. I have a lisp script that is run from a webpage, it accesses a file (data.txt) reads the first two first lines and outputs to user. Now the subsequent times the lisp script is called it will do the same (access the "data.txt" file and reads the first two lines), but I would like it to read the 3rd and 4th lines etc... 20:02:36 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757559.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:03:31 so my idea is that whenever the script is activated, it reads data.txt, uses the 2 lines and then rewrites a new data.txt on top of the other with the rest 20:03:49 but that seems "too expensive" with I/O and re-writes 20:03:54 Or you could write a separate file with the file position where you finished reading. 20:04:05 francogrex: that's a lot of writing, why not write the next position somewhere? 20:04:06 Then read that file to find the position to seek to and read two more lines. Repat. 20:04:08 gigamonkey: hmm 20:04:36 indeed. madnificent yes also... how come I don't think like that! 20:04:55 francogrex: and read it as bytes if you do that, for characters the file could be scanned completely anyways, as the character isn't necessarily one byte. 20:05:10 francogrex: with using a script, you're giving up one of the greatest aspect of a lisp webserver 20:05:36 H4ns: yes but it's not my server so cgi is all I am given 20:05:44 francogrex: i see. 20:09:29 -!- kmels [~kmels@p5B13FABE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:09:57 Here's something Lispy from wukix. Folks see this already: http://wukix.com/lisp-decimals 20:10:29 It's in Qucklisp, looks like. 20:13:02 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-17-23.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:19 oh, it must hook into the pretty printer. neat 20:14:10 kmels [~kmels@p5B13FABE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:33 tylerc [~tyler@uawifi-nat-210-20.arizona.edu] has joined #lisp 20:15:16 daniel1 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 20:15:25 -!- daniel1 is now known as danielmg 20:15:59 -!- danielmg [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 20:16:32 -!- kmels [~kmels@p5B13FABE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:17:44 kmels [~kmels@p5B13FABE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:19 why store the position in a file in between webpages access? 20:18:44 dim: "script" 20:18:45 -!- kmels [~kmels@p5B13FABE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:18:55 have the cgi talk to a lisp image "daemon" 20:19:05 they call it fastcgi nowadays, I believe 20:19:06 -!- tylerc [~tyler@uawifi-nat-210-20.arizona.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:19:43 kmels [~kmels@p5B13FABE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:06 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:22 -!- kmels [~kmels@p5B13FABE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:20:43 eangelin [~user@c80-216-6-57.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:22:07 daniel1 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 20:22:22 oh wu-decimal is pretty nice, good idea 20:22:56 -!- daniel1 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 20:25:07 -!- eangelin [~user@c80-216-6-57.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 20:26:52 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 20:27:21 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:28:07 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:28:48 kmels [~kmels@p5B13FABE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:27 -!- kmels [~kmels@p5B13FABE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:31:12 kmels [~kmels@p5b13fabe.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:41 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:30 I feel pity for clisp 20:33:20 how come? 20:33:21 how can you feel pity for a non-living entity ? 20:33:43 AeroNotix [~xeno@alt130.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:35:08 it's been a good lisp, but now not active anymore. fe[nl]ix, I interact more with emacs, lisp and computers in general than anything else 20:35:33 francogrex: what do you mean by "now not active anymore"? 20:35:39 francogrex: has it ceased to work? 20:36:20 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 20:36:37 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@alt130.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:36:58 clisp is often the only lisp that will work on a minority architecture. 20:36:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-65.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:01 AeroNotix [~xeno@alt130.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:37:04 in particular on irix 20:37:18 no I mean development not very active 20:37:19 /mios 20:37:26 er "mips" 20:37:52 jeti` [~user@p548EB67A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:06 I think SBCL is supposed to work on linux/mips. 20:39:48 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:40:49 yes, "supposed to" 20:41:02 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-qyeqizzyywmzavvx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:41:06 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-cuonvqvpoevybxfv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:41:19 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:43:07 Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 20:43:25 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:45:40 Fade: that said it didn't work for me on arm 20:45:51 though maybe that's not a minority architecture 20:46:01 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:38 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 20:52:32 -!- newbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:52:33 -!- romanab [~androirc@adsl-76-254-25-65.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:44 romanab [~androirc@adsl-76-254-25-65.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:32 dacoda [~user@178-24-212-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:54:42 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:55:17 SrPx [b19e3bc8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.158.59.200] has joined #lisp 20:55:45 (foo a b (boo c) d) -> if foo and boo are macros, what is expanded first, foo or boo? 20:56:30 (macroexpand '(foo a b (boo c) d)) will tell you 20:56:30 -!- romanab [~androirc@adsl-76-254-25-65.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:39 romanab [~androirc@adsl-76-254-25-65.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:22 SrPx: should be foo, but you shouldn't have side effects in macros. 20:57:48 dim: Bike thanks 20:57:56 why you thought I would ? Bike 20:58:21 daniel1 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 20:58:22 <|3b|> macro arguments are passed to the macro unevaluated, so FOO would see the list (BOO C) as an argument, and BOO may or may not be expanded depending on how FOO expands 20:58:51 -!- daniel1 is now known as danielmg 20:59:04 senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:12 -!- danielmg [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 20:59:38 -!- dacoda [~user@178-24-212-77-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:01:00 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.186.68.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:01:43 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.42.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:06 Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.103.160.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 21:07:57 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:10:55 daniel1 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 21:11:30 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] 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[~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 22:55:41 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 22:56:43 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 22:57:07 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:57:58 is the common lisp in http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/poplog/freepoplog.html known to be standard compliant or otherwise interesting? 22:58:09 I don't remember having seen that listed in cliki implementations page 22:58:33 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 22:59:33 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-138-96-107.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:02:10 newbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has joined #lisp 23:02:11 -!- kmels [~kmels@p5B13FABE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:04:37 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:06:18 arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:07:14 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:08:56 dim: i thought it was dead. Maybe you can try it out and report? Would be good to know how it is doing. 23:10:42 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012926.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:11:52 kmels [~kmels@p5B13FABE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:01 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:12:09 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:14:15 -!- kmels [~kmels@p5B13FABE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:21:47 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@rev-78-41-175-178.radiolan.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:26:58 Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:50 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-039-183.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:32:53 bitonic [~user@host86-138-96-107.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:33:57 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 23:35:58 -!- gridaphobe [~user@128.54.39.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:12 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 23:39:42 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-138-96-107.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:40:51 daniel1 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 23:41:46 -!- daniel1 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 23:54:28 -!- Guest50944 is now known as asciilifeform 23:54:35 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@e0109-106-182-95-56.uqwimax.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:54:40 -!- silenius [~silenius@brln-4d0c296e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:55 stlifey [~stlifey@59.35.103.63] has joined #lisp 23:57:03 gridaphobe [~user@128.54.39.225] has joined #lisp