00:00:06 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:00:30 eSoul: just for your own gratification, you might want to read up on tail-calls http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tail_call 00:00:44 question 00:00:44 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:50 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:01:52 jasom: seems interesting 00:04:12 eSoul: most CL implementations will do some elimination of tail-calls so that would allow you to write a recursive version without exhausting the stack 00:05:43 jasom: indeed. unfortuantely I also don't have to worry about being elegant or being resourceful, so I will prolly brute-force this assignment with my simple implementations 00:06:23 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.241.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:06:26 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:10:57 -!- jtza8 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[fare@nat/google/x-noglzwxqeaklgkuv] has joined #lisp 03:55:30 hi 03:59:21 hi 04:01:48 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 04:03:54 -!- benny [~user@i577A1743.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:07:20 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 04:10:21 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-noglzwxqeaklgkuv] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:12:57 -!- kanru`` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:17:00 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-140-251.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:17:38 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:18:04 ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 04:23:42 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 04:24:23 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has left #lisp 04:24:26 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 04:25:16 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 04:25:27 I know I can use APPEND to bring lists together, but is there a way to say, remove the CAR of a list easily? 04:25:38 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 04:25:48 (cdr list) 04:26:05 oh yeah 04:26:07 haw 04:26:13 something like 04:26:16 ivan-kan` [~user@46.218.71.241] has joined #lisp 04:26:30 (SETQ new-list (cdr list)) works, right? 04:26:31 you may not be thinking of lists accurately. they are just cons cells. 04:26:41 yes, that alters the lexical binding. it doesn't affect the value. 04:27:02 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:28:38 user123abc [~sally@67.171.79.251] has joined #lisp 04:30:04 ok, thanks, I might know how to do the job I need to do 04:30:53 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:32:58 felideon [~felideon@184.170.255.36] has joined #lisp 04:33:49 -!- felideon [~felideon@184.170.255.36] has left #lisp 04:34:24 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:35:38 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:35:51 CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:39:10 engblom` [~user@86-60-152-181-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi] has joined #lisp 04:40:41 -!- pxp [~pxp@72.185.225.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:40:52 -!- engblom [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:41:14 pxp [~pxp@72.185.225.68] has joined #lisp 04:43:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:44:04 minion: tell esoul about gentle 04:44:04 esoul: look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 04:44:28 ^ it has *good* introduction to manipulating CONSes :) 04:45:30 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-108-45-162-198.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:46:17 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:36 thanks, p_l 04:47:32 Im just about done with my assignment from earlier, its not the most efficient thing (I could be using progn instead of looping thru the same list 5 times, but it comes up with the correct answers) 04:48:50 eSoul: why can't you do it in one pass? 04:49:09 p_l: he's not interested in actually learning lisp, just in passing the test. 04:49:24 H4ns: Shh, maybe we can suborn him 04:49:33 and I just woke up again 04:49:47 I could with PROGN, but I was being cautious and writing my calculating functions seperate 04:50:15 eSoul: progn is rarely required in functions. 04:50:44 H4ns: im using IF and can only have 1 clause for t and 1 for nil, without PROGN that is 04:50:50 brb 04:50:51 at least, thats my understanding 04:50:55 eSoul: that's when we use COND 04:51:08 ahh, I see I see 04:52:32 Is IF just there for the case when you want 1 and 1 then? 04:52:37 and use COND for everything else? 04:54:11 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:54:24 yes. or WHEN or UNLESS 04:55:50 sodel [~user@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:54 gotcha 04:58:23 Thanks for treating me like an idiot, but not rudely treating me like an idiot :-] 04:58:53 i know I don't grasp lisp as much as the easy to use java, c, c++, c#, but I like to learn it 04:59:09 I can see where it would be more more efficient at things versus the others 04:59:20 that's good. common lisp is a nice language, really. 04:59:44 -!- sodel [~user@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 05:00:47 i agree 05:00:58 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:03:21 sre-su [~sre-su@unaffiliated/sre-su] has joined #lisp 05:03:34 -!- sre-su [~sre-su@unaffiliated/sre-su] has left #lisp 05:04:54 -!- 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[~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 05:44:24 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 05:44:42 hmm, ok, last question for the night, I have a bunch of atomic values, students last names for example, not strings like "foo", but with a single ', like 'foo, is there anyway to do a camparison with the names the way they are? 05:45:15 those are called symbols 05:45:49 ahh, ok ok 05:46:02 eSoul: what do you mean by "the way they are"? do you rather want to use strings instead of symbols? 05:46:04 jcazevedo_ [~jcazevedo@bl20-210-108.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 05:46:25 and yes you can, string< and so on take string designators, which includes symbols 05:46:45 ok, thats what I was confused on 05:46:56 I saw that you could use string< for example 05:47:05 but didnt know if I woul dhave to first turn all my symbols intro strings 05:47:08 *into 05:47:54 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-60-57.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:47:55 -!- jcazevedo_ is now known as jcazevedo 05:48:05 it depends on what you need to do, but EQ can also be used for exact matches with symbols, if what you need is fast matching rather than symbol name comparison 05:48:15 eSoul: what bike says. you might be put off by the fact that lisp turns symbol names to upper case by default, though. 05:48:51 phadthai: I need comes before/after, not is the same but thanks 05:49:14 and H4ns: indeed, I noticed that, but it shouldnt be a problem 05:49:14 eSoul: and you can get the name of a symbol with the symbol-name function. (symbol-name 'foo) => "FOO" and so on 05:49:30 oh ok, handy 05:51:51 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:55:56 cornihilio [~cornihili@95.211.149.153] has joined #lisp 05:56:28 what web framework should I use as a backend for a rest-based js site? 05:56:45 cornihilio: what do you need a framework for? 05:56:48 ezakimak [~nick@69.9.62.212] has joined #lisp 05:57:03 cornihilio: if what you're looking for is request routing, look at restas maybe 05:57:40 cornihilio: other than that, use a json library (i use&wrote yason) and whatever means you need to do the crud operations. 05:57:51 H4ns: that's pretty close to what I am looking for 05:58:38 are any of the frameworks multithreaded/make good use of iolib? 05:59:01 aww, sbcl is telling me #S(X ...) is not of type X 05:59:44 cornihilio: hunchentoot uses a thread per request (or a single thread for all requests, without multiplexing) 05:59:53 ah, ok, an old accessor, sry 05:59:55 ml__: did you redefine the structure type? 05:59:55 cornihilio: you keep talking about frameworks, but we have none. 05:59:57 right 06:00:02 yes, i did 06:00:19 well, I guess I'm misusing framework 06:00:23 there's a couple of iolib-based or similar web servers, but none as accepted, usable, stable, or documented as hunchentoot. 06:00:43 I'm looking for something similar to erlang webmachine I think 06:01:26 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 06:01:39 nforgerit [~nforgerit@149.172.198.162] has joined #lisp 06:02:13 cowboy is the new hotness 06:02:23 hu? 06:02:33 ah, that's something off-topic, i guess? 06:02:45 we're heading there 06:03:02 ? 06:03:58 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 06:04:03 cornihilio: as far as I can tell, hunchentoot provides everything the webmachine docs seem to talk about. 06:04:47 madrik [~user@122.168.239.165] has joined #lisp 06:04:54 cornihilio: if you want something like routes instead of what easy-handlers/regexp handlers provide, you can hook into cl-route and still use hunchentoot. 06:05:35 I will have to spend some time with hunchentoot and cl-route then :)! thanks! 06:05:48 don't bother with cl-route yet 06:05:49 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [] 06:05:54 just use hunchentoot. It's pretty straightforward. 06:06:07 *sykopomp* never got to the point of figuring out how to hook up cl-route cleanly. 06:06:38 sykopomp: restas is supposed to add the routing sprinkles to hunchentoot, too. 06:07:01 cl-routes is the route library restas uses, iirc. 06:07:12 I just find the rest of restas distasteful. 06:07:21 ah, ok. 06:08:08 i never understood why everyone's looking for "routes" nowadays. it must be something that you get when you're socialized with rails. 06:08:12 -!- liweinan_ [~liweinan@222.130.236.104] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:09:12 to me, it's two things: one, it makes urls look kinda nice and pretty (and play well with accepted bits of SEO juju). Two, they can help modularize how you build your path structure so you can move chunks around more easily. 06:09:57 like, /post?id=234 isn't as nice as /2012/07/check-this-out-omg 06:10:11 right. i'm not debating that a well-sorted url space makes sense. 06:10:37 it's just the language that i only slowly pick up where everyone else seems to take it for granted that there are "routes" and stuff 06:11:27 there's a lot of stuff that web devs take for granted that they just won't easily find in Lisp land. 06:11:58 true enough 06:12:06 which is really too bad, and it would be nice to have more reusable libraries for some of these things (instead of building big do-it-my-way frameworks) 06:12:29 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 06:12:43 Well, holy crap, thanks alot guys, I managed to get my assignment completed more or less, just have to make the output nicer looking, instead of just 5 lines of number 06:12:44 s 06:12:45 i'm kind of tired of bemoaning the situation. 06:13:04 well, maybe not a lot of stuff, actually. 06:13:12 what is it, then? 06:13:21 when I think about it, it's only a few corner cases that are pretty easy to fix on a per-project basis. The bulk of the juicy stuff is there. 06:13:42 I was thinking about CSRF tokens and how more mainstream web frameworks have them pretty much cooked in so you don't have to worry about that bit. 06:13:42 right. the issue still is to pick the right components. 06:13:54 persistent secure sessions, stuff like that. 06:14:10 but I think I'm making it sound bigger than it is. 06:14:24 jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-224.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:14:24 it is easy to get "secure" wrong 06:14:27 we also have one of the most excellent postgres libraries out there (and I've used a number of them by now) 06:14:45 and in some cases one still has to override the system the framework provides :) 06:15:19 I've implemented a rough version of pomo's row reader mechanism in our internal erlang db access stuff, to rave reviews. People just don't do these quality-of-life bits often enough. 06:15:23 yeah 06:15:35 maybe it is about time now for a postgres based web framework 06:15:53 but then people will dismiss it as being postgres only 06:16:06 s/dismiss/praise/ 06:16:57 I still think it would be nice to have a reliable, high-performance web server where you can tell a big client "We'll scale anywhere"... but I don't know the real value of that besides proglang e-peen. 06:18:39 i'm not confident that the lack of some kind of library or framework is really holding off big clients from considering lisp 06:18:58 I don't think so either. 06:19:39 It seems more a combination of "it's-not-java/python/ruby" and "who actually writes this stuff? Do they actually exist somewhere? I don't see them." 06:19:41 lispers tend to over-emphasize their language choice as being of fundamental importance. customers don't care about the language, they care about the software that they use. 06:19:51 :) 06:20:07 ...or "well, we got some but then they went away!" 06:24:38 what a full, ready-made, performant and widely advertized stack could provide would be some advocacy, which if works enough might cause a few geeks to begin using lisp more; but I fully agree 06:24:39 ok, this seems like a trivial problem, but I wanted to ask anyway, I have a function that runs a bunch of (print ) functions but it always seems to repeat the last print, anyway to prevent thia 06:24:41 *this 06:25:04 eSoul: it does not "repeat the print", it is the repl that prints the result of your function 06:25:19 eSoul: try returning nil instead of the result of the last print 06:25:33 or (values) if you don't need a return value 06:25:53 I tried that, and gives me a block name NIL is undefined 06:26:01 Ill try that, phadthai 06:26:11 you might not need to use RETURN, depending 06:26:25 the last value is automatically returned 06:26:53 you should read Practical Common Lisp :) 06:27:45 (defun foo () 4 (print 9) 10) => FOO; (foo) => 10, prints 9; (+ 11 (foo)) => 21, prints 9 06:27:57 lol I know I know, but unfortunately im just brute-forcing an assignment for now. I promise to come back to LISP when I can actually sit and learn it properly 06:28:15 we just call it "lisp", we have terminals with multiple cases now 06:28:27 :-] 06:28:42 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:03 sorry, thanks for putting up with a total newb tonight, but it really helped me out 06:29:32 asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 06:30:21 -!- p_l is now known as p_l|work 06:30:29 (values) did what I wanted, thanks phadthai 06:30:55 loke_erc [~user@c-4957e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:31:02 but if you dont mind, im going to idle here to just gleam a little bit of information 06:31:12 and hopefully learn a little bit 06:31:26 you're welcome 06:31:26 good afternoon 06:31:33 i dunno, we have 357 people online and chatting constantly, maybe you won't fit 06:31:33 about ideling, most of us do the same 06:31:42 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 06:31:48 Dones anyone know who is the current maintainer of trivial-ldap? 06:31:54 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 06:33:44 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 06:33:44 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 06:33:44 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 06:33:46 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 06:34:49 loke_erc: I guess you did the same as I just did, and discovered the site is down :( 06:35:05 there's https://github.com/rwiker/trivial-ldap but I'm not sure if it's really the current maintained one 06:35:36 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-224.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:35:43 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:39:18 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:41:48 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:42:05 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:43:02 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 06:44:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.47] has joined #lisp 06:44:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.47] has quit [Changing host] 06:44:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:47:31 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:48:10 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 06:49:53 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:50:39 mrSpec [~Spec@89-78-118-138.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 06:50:39 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-78-118-138.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 06:50:39 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:52:51 niels1 [~niels@79.214.180.123] has joined #lisp 06:54:20 -!- albert-irc [~albert@adsl-71-156-38-115.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:54:58 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:59:47 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 06:59:47 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@69.94.206.168] has quit [Quit: ynniv] 06:59:48 kanru`` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:31 nowhere_man_ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-40.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:05:33 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@92.141.202.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:06:11 spiderweb [45aba081@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.171.160.129] has joined #lisp 07:06:25 phadthai: sorry for not respodning 07:06:28 phadthai: still there? 07:07:07 phadthai: I was reading the README in the QL-supplied version, and it mentions that the developer was given the permission to release an upated version, which is what is in QL 07:07:16 however, nowhere does he mention even his name 07:07:19 :-( 07:07:36 It mentions the name of the original developer, but not who actually wrote that README 07:07:49 does it have a contact in the asd, maybe? 07:08:01 bike: good question. let me check 07:08:22 No :-( 07:08:30 Xach ought to know though 07:09:07 check the ql metainfo github, maybe? 07:09:29 Oh, I did not know about that 07:09:35 tell me more :-) 07:10:01 loke_erc: I'm here now, but I have no idea 07:10:07 https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects might just be a source link though 07:10:37 Ah! 07:10:40 git git://github.com/rwiker/trivial-ldap.git 07:11:19 Raymond Wiker 07:11:36 Oh, a fellow norse! He's noreigian 07:11:39 norweigian 07:17:05 mr_vile [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 07:18:36 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.239.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:18:42 -!- qlkzy [~user@86.135.233.182] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:20:09 -!- ivan-kan` [~user@46.218.71.241] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:20:56 ivan-kanis [~user@46.218.71.241] has joined #lisp 07:21:09 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@46.218.71.241] has quit [Client Quit] 07:21:45 ivan-kanis [~user@46.218.71.241] has joined #lisp 07:21:47 paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:22:18 -!- mr_vile [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:22:32 mr_vile [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 07:22:59 qlkzy [~user@86.135.233.182] has joined #lisp 07:23:23 -!- qlkzy [~user@86.135.233.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:24:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:25:42 sellout [~Adium@ip-64-134-223-159.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:10 qlkzy [qlkzy@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:4a4a] has joined #lisp 07:32:14 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:32:56 jack_rabbit [~kyle@98.253.60.75] has joined #lisp 07:35:38 Can I use let to temporarily bind over a function in a package, and if so, how? I've done some searching, but haven't found anything. 07:35:50 *method* rather. 07:37:08 jack_rabbit: Dynamically? 07:38:04 Yes. (I believe) 07:38:21 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c17d8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:27 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:38:33 There is a method compare that I'd like to shadow in a dynamic scope (possibly using let?) 07:40:05 flet 07:40:16 minion: tell jack_rabbit about flet 07:40:17 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``flet''. 07:40:19 you can't dynamically bind functions. usually you'd do something like (let ((*compare* #'some-function)) ...) and then (funcall *compare* ...), so on 07:40:58 Thanks, guaqua. 07:41:16 Bike: What do you mean? Is flet not what I'm looking for, or am I using wrong terminology? 07:41:36 flet is lexical. 07:41:45 -!- setmeaway [oosool3@119.201.52.222] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:41:49 yeah. flet might not do what you want :/ 07:42:01 if it is what you want, great, but it's not dynamic. 07:42:14 Bike: I've been reading about lexical and dynamic binding and think I'm mixed up. 07:43:16 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-57-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:43:48 Okay. It's lexical, which means it can't shadow an existing function? 07:43:56 no, it can 07:44:17 But any functions I call from within flet would use the global declaration? 07:44:22 nope 07:44:27 :? 07:44:28 (flet ((foo () 4)) (foo)) => 4 07:44:52 Okay, I mean If I were to call another function that called foo, would foo still evaluate to 4? 07:45:00 no. 07:45:03 Okay. 07:45:04 that's dynamic binding. 07:45:11 Right. Great. That makes sense. 07:45:19 delaying the lookup until runtime, essentially. 07:45:20 So there's no way to dynamically bind functions? 07:45:24 Right. 07:45:27 not in CL. 07:45:30 :P 07:45:37 but you can just dynamically bind a variable and funcall its value. 07:46:00 That would be nice, but it's a function in the package that calls the method I'd like to shadow. 07:46:18 Maybe I'll just add an optional parameter. 07:46:26 so you want to modify the behavior of someone else's code? 07:46:40 No, It's my own package. 07:46:48 Playing with packages and methods. 07:47:03 created a "sort" package which has compare methods for different types. 07:47:28 the sort function calls compare. I thought it might be nice to modify the default behavior of the compare functions. 07:47:39 *compare methods 07:48:43 there used to be a with-added-methods special form that did something like you're thinking of, but it was removed for being too confusing for anybody to implement, I think. 07:49:17 you might look up contextl sometime, it has something like dynamic methods. 07:49:46 tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:15 Cool. Although it has no documentation. 07:50:27 yes, i've had problems with that as well... 07:50:27 How would you implement something like this? 07:50:42 Should I just have an optional compare parameter passed to my sort method? 07:51:16 Which takes a non-standard compare function? 07:52:02 *sort function. Sorry. 07:52:05 honestly I just like CL's way of having the order as a required parameter, and no defaults for different types or anything :) 07:52:27 I'll look that up. Thanks. 07:52:41 just CL's SORT function, I mean 07:53:43 Cool. Seems like what I was thinking. 07:55:01 of course, it predates CLOS, so there was no notion of methods anyway. but I think it's common enough to want to sort the same types of things in different ways based on the situation. 07:56:16 There. Change request sent: https://github.com/lokedhs/trivial-ldap/commit/a3ac161983ea3e81629583be4132e83f694b53c8 07:56:52 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:56:54 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 07:56:54 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:56:54 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:57:01 shwouchkster [~shwouchk@bzq-84-110-45-212.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:58:52 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:59:21 -!- shwouchkie [~shwouchk@bzq-82-81-28-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:00:14 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@46.218.71.241] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:04:36 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.202.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:04:55 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-218-162.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 08:05:19 -!- engblom [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has left #lisp 08:06:07 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@217.133.17.91] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:06:17 Antick [~emacs@d154-20-45-35.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:48 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.85.138] has joined #lisp 08:13:23 -!- spiderweb [45aba081@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.171.160.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:16:03 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:16:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:16:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:17:53 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:20:29 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 08:22:13 leoncamel [~user@124.126.209.86] has joined #lisp 08:22:54 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 08:28:07 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 08:28:08 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:29:03 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 08:31:05 I have a let form in which I call a function. How can I get that function to use the value set in the let? I thought I could just use that value as if it were global. Do I have to pass it? 08:31:07 -!- p_nathan [~anunknown@75.87.250.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:33:04 jack_rabbit: either pass the value, or a (lambda) function that can access the value. 08:33:14 Ahh. Okay. 08:33:31 jack_rabbit: "Let over Lambda" has a lot of these things, if you like to read books 08:33:44 The dynamic binding doesn't carry into other functions? 08:34:23 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 08:34:35 Adding Let over Lambda to my reading list. 08:34:38 jack_rabbit: No. You can't have dynamic binding of functions 08:34:55 Not binding a function. 08:39:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:40:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:44:19 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:45:12 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:15 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 08:48:16 Joreji [~thomas@85-003.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 08:49:15 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 08:51:48 -!- kcj 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13:37:56 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:38:35 -!- bitonic` [~user@dyn1196-114.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:10 bitonic [~user@dyn1196-114.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:43:51 Hmmm. RESTAS seems to be downcasing all my HTML somehow. I need the "onClick" attribute to be case preserved. Any quick ideas? 13:44:07 *easye* looks up the proper RESTAS forum to pose the question. 13:44:43 a quick idea would be "write your own framework" 13:44:51 a bit silly of an idea, though 13:44:56 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:44:58 Ok. 13:45:05 I'll consider it... 13:45:34 I thought we were in the "consolidation" phase of Lisp libraries with Fare's missive. 13:46:03 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:04 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-gwvemeskhknnbjog] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:46:16 heh 13:46:24 some stuff can't be consolidated that easily 13:46:28 but frameworks are not libraries! 13:46:37 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 13:46:51 and i was semi-joking about writing your own 13:46:59 otoh, getting standard interfaces for certain things, like Ruby's Rack is for Web servers, would be very, very nice 13:47:00 stassats: I figured. 13:47:04 Clack is not yet there 13:48:44 Is there maybe something in Hunchentoot that would be re-writing HTML tags by downcasing them all? 13:48:56 easye: no 13:49:05 H4ns: Thanks. 13:49:34 err "attributes" not "tags" but the answer would be the same. 13:51:32 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 13:51:32 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 13:51:32 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:51:34 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:52:21 easye: what are you using for HTML generation? I'm using CL-WHO and have that behaviour - but my firefox doesn't care, it uses "onchange" too. 13:52:30 -!- confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:52:36 Yeah, I'm using CL-WHO 13:52:47 Firefox does seem to care. 13:53:00 *loke* wrote his own template library :-) 13:53:03 confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:11 *H4ns* too 13:53:15 it does? i find that hard to believe! 13:53:17 mine calls the :onchange (ps:ps* `(...)) event handlers. 13:53:29 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 13:53:37 -!- confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:53:45 H4ns: you got examples of yours? 13:53:51 HTML attributes are supposed to be case sensitive, right? 13:53:58 confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:04 easye: no 13:54:18 hmmm, on-change doesn't help. 13:54:22 But HTML is XML? 13:54:28 i have never seen onchange or onclick to be capitalized like that 13:54:40 loke: https://github.com/hanshuebner/quickhoney/blob/master/website/templates/index.xml 13:54:44 Or more specifically, when I am serving XHTML, elements are attributes are case sensiste. 13:54:52 s/are/and/ 13:55:25 loke: that one's rather old. tags in the bknr and quickhoney namespaces are handled by lisp functions 13:55:49 loke: here are the tag definitions: https://github.com/hanshuebner/quickhoney/blob/master/src/tags.lisp 13:56:07 This is mine: 13:56:08 http://code.google.com/p/docbrowser/source/browse/src/template/show_package.tmpl 13:56:51 "Element and attribute names must be in lower case XHTML documents must use lower case for all HTML element and attribute names." 13:56:53 loke: i'm not a friend of non-xml template languages 13:57:02 so, no any of this camel case nonsense 13:57:18 http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/REC-xhtml1-20020801/#h-4.2 13:58:03 stassats: for XHTML, yes 13:58:18 don't forget they dropped XHTMl for HTML5 (which is again SGML app :D) 13:58:24 Well, it looks like my problem was 'cuz I wasn't setting who:*downcase-elements-p* at compile time. 13:58:27 that's what i said and what easye asked 13:59:19 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-74-49.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:24 stassats: Thanks for that ref. 13:59:56 And the general experience is that browsers will process both onClick and onclick? 14:00:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:00:14 easye: yes 14:00:17 THanks. 14:00:20 they usually accept malformed html, yes 14:01:42 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 14:03:18 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:57 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 14:04:57 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 14:04:57 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:05:05 -!- Thra11 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quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:27:31 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@ip-64-134-223-159.public.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:41 sellout [~Adium@ip-64-134-223-159.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:42 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 14:31:32 ivan-kan` [~user@46.218.71.241] has joined #lisp 14:33:24 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@46.218.71.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:35:47 asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 14:36:54 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.85.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:38:06 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:38:37 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.209] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:39:13 Does this warning in LW make sense? http://paste.lisp.org/+2V6X 14:40:37 I call defmethod, with eql specifiers, inside a function, and LW complains that I redefine a method with a signature matching the unevaled specifier-forms. 14:41:32 yes, the whole things is bogus 14:41:41 you want macros 14:42:03 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 14:42:58 stassats: Care to elaborate? 14:43:14 it's you 14:43:16 not LW 14:43:45 chr: do you know how to use macros? just replace defun with a defmacro and return a proper form from it 14:45:05 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 14:45:09 peterhil- [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 14:45:35 -!- ivan-kan` [~user@46.218.71.241] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:47:21 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.178.65] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 14:51:05 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:53:36 -!- p_l|work is now known as p_l 14:59:01 chebastian [~chebastia@c-d875e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:59:27 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:00:20 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[~smccolgan@216.214.197.66] has joined #lisp 15:27:51 -!- intinig [~user@93-50-99-219.ip152.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:59 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 15:28:08 intinig [~user@93-50-99-219.ip152.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:32:14 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:33:23 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.67] has joined #lisp 15:33:58 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.72] has joined #lisp 15:39:37 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 15:40:05 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:41:39 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:02 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:31 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.59.153.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 15:47:09 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:12 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 15:51:28 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 15:53:54 -!- gilez [~gdmalet@tux.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:22 I am working with some html and I'm looking for a way to parse html into a format that can equally be run through a html generator to recreate the same html 15:54:56 because ideally I'd like to quit working with html 15:55:08 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 15:55:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:55:56 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:55:58 use cxml or similar to parse it and write cl-who code with it, and then just maintain the cl-who code. 15:55:59 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 15:56:06 or you know, manually write the cl-who/yaclml code. 15:56:27 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.154] has joined #lisp 15:56:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:58:23 cornihilio: tidy (to normalize the crazy junk that passes for html) and then cxml or similar 15:58:40 catmtking [~catmtking@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-142-156.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 15:59:28 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:59:31 I'll look into cxml, but for tidy I'm getting: (ql:system-apropos "tidy") returns nil 16:00:08 cxml is an xml parser, you want closure-html 16:00:22 cornihilio: http://tidy.sourceforge.net/ is what he referred to 16:03:02 -!- mhi^ [~mhi@mhi.sanctioned.net] has left #lisp 16:03:31 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.154] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:04:48 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-40.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:06:04 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 16:14:18 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.222.244] has quit [Ping 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timeout: 245 seconds] 16:33:47 jewel [~jewel@105-236-64-134.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:34:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:36:08 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:28 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:39:50 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:33 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:42:38 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:45:46 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 16:49:53 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:51:02 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:51:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:52:05 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 16:52:54 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:54:41 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:06 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:55:39 yrk [~user@75-150-104-107-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:41 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 16:55:43 -!- yrk [~user@75-150-104-107-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:55:43 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 16:55:46 Greetings lispers 16:55:58 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:55:59 lo ThomasH 16:56:10 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755915.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:14 -!- confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:57 confab [~confab@64.30.112.86] has joined #lisp 16:58:41 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:00:04 -!- duko [~duko@static-72-87-239-154.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 17:00:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:00:11 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 17:02:00 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:41 helloo http://paste.lisp.org/display/133740 17:03:25 hugod [~user@rrcs-98-101-136-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:03:36 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:04:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:04:17 wbooze: you're pushing the value after the predicate in the first, obviously... 17:04:32 read each form one by one, you will see the difference 17:04:58 sellout [~Adium@ip-64-134-223-159.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:35 up until the (1 2 3 4) part i got everything..... 17:06:54 i just don't get why it returns (1 2 3 4) there and not (2 3 4 5)..... 17:07:15 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:21 because you're pushing the value in the list, not the result of the predicat.e 17:07:24 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:08:19 yes, but the result would be t for val, i want not t in my list i wanted the numbers themselves..... 17:08:43 so i put the x in dependence of val there.... 17:08:48 fascinating 17:09:04 shwouchk [~shwouchk@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has joined #lisp 17:09:07 hello 17:09:16 If I want to unit test my code 17:09:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:09:35 and I've never done it before in any language. What's the best way to go on about it? 17:10:16 shwouchk: Find a unit test library and use it to write tests. 17:10:39 how about http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-building-a-unit-test-framework.html 17:10:48 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:10:50 ThomasH, would you care to suggest a specific one? 17:10:51 shwouchk: there is no best way. here is a current approach: http://ml.sun.ac.za/2012/11/09/developing-a-unit-test-framework-part-1/ 17:10:54 stassats, thanks 17:11:22 H4ns, thanks! 17:11:31 shwouchk: i like the writeup and plan to try that library, but it is fairly new. 17:11:38 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.133] has joined #lisp 17:11:52 I see 17:12:09 shwouchk: I maintain lisp-unit, so I'm biased towards it. 17:13:12 ThomasH, Ill look it up also, thanks 17:13:22 i write code without bugs, so i'm biased to not use it! 17:13:25 (just kidding) 17:13:40 :) 17:15:20 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-192-151.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:15:24 booguie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:25 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:15:36 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 17:15:50 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-194-51.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:16:03 now I have a something very annoying to complain about 17:16:14 why does slime keep changing the number to leave an error? 17:16:22 Jasko2 [~Jasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 17:16:31 it doesn't change it 17:16:42 I always need to look for 5 seconds to know which number to press to get to the main loop 17:16:47 just press "q" 17:17:09 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:17:22 stassats, thats cool 17:17:28 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 17:17:32 but how was I supposed to know that? 17:17:34 a for abourt and c for continue 17:17:44 by reading the docs, i guess 17:18:00 which are just a C-h m away 17:18:13 tjasko__ [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:43 stassats, sometime you don't want to read the whole docs before starting to use the software, and if it show shortcut keys then I assume I can use them... 17:19:18 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@174.59.201.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:19:18 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 17:19:39 it's a simple choice, you can read the docs and learn it, or not read the docs and not know it 17:20:41 stassats, usually software gives hints to its short keys so that you wouldn't have to dig through documentation to get it 17:20:53 -!- hugod [~user@rrcs-98-101-136-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:20:58 for example emacs tells you the key to an action after you run it with M-x 17:20:58 yes, C-h m does that 17:21:34 you can stop complaining, it's pointless 17:21:38 :) 17:21:54 -!- Jasko2 [~Jasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:24:00 hugod [~user@rrcs-98-101-136-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:35:42 -!- asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:36:19 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:36:32 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:41:12 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.21] has joined #lisp 17:43:16 -!- intinig [~user@93-50-99-219.ip152.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:44:33 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-142-156.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:46 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 17:45:25 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:46:34 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-039-183.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:50 question 17:49:53 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:50:12 are there setters for in place subtraction/addition etc? 17:50:25 shwouchk: incf/decf 17:50:36 H4ns, thanks! 17:51:23 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:29 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:49 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 17:54:08 gilez [~gdmalet@tux.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:55:02 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 18:00:04 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:00:06 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:01:14 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:01:30 nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has joined #lisp 18:02:39 hello all, i couldn't get an answer in emacs room. Syntax highlighting of block comment #| |# doesn't work, what am i doing wrong? 18:04:06 nan_: work out of the box here. I usually go for #|| / ||# to avoid confusing emacs's heuristics, though. 18:05:10 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:03 pkhuong: for a few lines it works for me too but when it is like 5-10 paragraphs it doesn't work 18:07:00 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 18:07:04 that can happen 18:08:12 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.59.153.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:08:32 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.14.183.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 18:09:44 nan_: M-q just works with ; comments, so it's not too painful to use ;;; blocks (the latter also works better with quick source -> markdown hacks like lukego's one-line pbook). 18:09:45 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:14 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 18:10:28 -!- hugod [~user@rrcs-98-101-136-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:10:43 *stassats* almost never uses #| 18:10:59 stassats: so it is something common? such a simple thing 18:11:13 it may seem simple for you 18:12:01 stassats: isn't it a basic editor feature, in vim it works as usual 18:12:34 ok then, i employ you to fix it 18:12:37 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 18:14:57 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 18:14:57 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@95.211.188.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:15:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:15:51 Blkt [~user@62.10.10.99] has joined #lisp 18:16:24 stassats: i am still learning lisp, i wouldn't be the best person yet, but what makes such a common editor feature hard in emacs edit mode? 18:17:53 nan_: it doesn't work well with vim, I see issues with it all the time 18:17:55 it's optimized not to parse the whole file for highlighting, so, searching for #| very far away would make it slow 18:18:15 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:18:31 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Client Quit] 18:19:20 so it is performance related, a valid reason 18:19:43 jasom: for this particular case it works, don't know though if it works generally 18:19:56 although /* in C seems to works fine, so, it's fixable 18:20:34 stassats: how can i fix it? is there a global variable? 18:21:02 what a global variable has got to do with it? 18:21:35 get emacs source code, figure out how it does fontification, change it 18:21:40 stassats: you know an editor option, a variable, a function 18:21:42 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-244-250.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:56 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 18:24:33 stassats: it doesn't work like that, you can't answer every question like that "go fix it". i am a user who is having a problem. time will probably come that i'd like to contribute. 18:25:16 so, you want me to fix that? no, that's not going to work like that either 18:25:46 stassats: show me where i asked you to fix it 18:25:52 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:26:17 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1196-114.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:19 well, so, some third party should fix it? 18:27:16 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 18:28:00 stassats: i asked a question that i got no idea about, it maybe need fixing or just a change in the resource file, i got no idea so i asked. and places like this is for mostly this kind of things, that helping eachother. 18:30:06 i proposed for you to fix it, because you said that it is "such a simple thing" 18:32:02 it is "syntax highlighting" that works every editor i have seen, so it is probably something simple, since i had a problem i didn't see in other editors i've used i thought it is because of some init/resource file that needs changing. 18:32:59 ghast [~user@host137.190-138-32.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:33:30 i am not even sure if it is a problem that needs someone to dive into emacs source code, it is one of the oldest environments, i wouldn't be the first person that had this issue 18:34:13 you would need to figure that out as well 18:34:49 hi fe[nl]ix 18:39:01 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 18:40:10 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:41:09 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:41:44 cornihilio [~cornihili@e0109-106-182-95-56.uqwimax.jp] has joined #lisp 18:42:19 arrk13 [~arrakis24@dslb-178-006-103-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:56 engblom [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has joined #lisp 18:44:02 Is there any drawback by using just (elt) regardless of type? For example instead of using (char) strings? 18:44:35 engblom: char acts as documentation 18:45:30 and might be marginally faster, since ELT also works on lists and whatnot, but i don't expect it to be more than noise 18:46:21 unless the implementation can also do something derived on the type of the result of CHAR 18:46:41 One question more: is (length) O(n) or O(1)? 18:46:53 on lists, O(n), O(1) on vectors 18:47:23 bitonic [~user@dyn1196-114.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:47:34 In all implementations? I mean, it would make sense to store the length just for optimizing... 18:47:38 yes 18:47:59 lists are chains of conses, so you can't really store the length 18:48:58 Internally, it could be made, by having an long integer that gets incremented or decreased each time you cons or remove stuff. 18:49:09 Fully transparent to the user... 18:49:39 you add a cons to the end of a list, how do you traverse all the preceding conses? 18:50:50 capisce [~srodal@cm-84.215.35.251.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 18:51:23 the semantics of lisp make it really hard to implement what you are thinking, engblom 18:51:42 not of lisp, of any single linked lists, really 18:51:59 guaqua: In lisp, how about a dot-list with one integer field, and one pointer to the actual list? 18:52:12 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@94.144.63.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:52:16 That dot-list would just be internal by the implementation... 18:52:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-196.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52:33 even with doubly linked lists, going back and modifying all the preceding conses is hardly transparent 18:52:33 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1196-114.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-196.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:52:52 kliph` [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 18:53:05 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:53:06 -!- kliph` [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:21 engblom: there's no lists as such in common lisp 18:53:45 they are composed of cons cells 18:54:26 so, each cons cell would need a length cell, but that still doesn't solve destructive modification 18:54:32 what are 'lists as such'? 18:54:45 capisce: like vectors 18:54:47 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:54:57 well, there are vectors in common lisp :) 18:55:40 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 18:55:43 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:52 right, but they are different 18:56:23 true 18:56:33 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:56:51 you can create your own list objects, if you want to 18:56:59 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 19:00:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:01:04 ikki [~ikki@189.247.222.244] has joined #lisp 19:07:55 shwouchkie_ [5251abcd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.81.171.205] has joined #lisp 19:08:19 hello 19:08:44 sometimes it happens that the compiler hangs during compilation 19:09:00 any good way to find the culprit, other than binary search? 19:10:26 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:55 bitonic [~user@dyn1199-135.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:13:30 AeroNotix [~xeno@aclu215.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:14:35 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:05 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:18:11 engblom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDR_coding might be of interest 19:20:00 no better way? 19:20:23 are you sure it hangs? 19:20:29 also, check activity of the process 19:20:39 try limiting memory? 19:22:23 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:41 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-250-98.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 19:22:58 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:23:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:24:13 -!- shwouchkie_ [5251abcd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.81.171.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:26:14 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:27:31 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 19:28:43 easy-iPad [~easyipad@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:30:35 what does the backtrace look like when you C-c it? 19:30:43 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@e0109-106-182-95-56.uqwimax.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:54 or, if it's in a slime, M-x slime-list-threads and then d to interrupt the thread 19:32:00 hi Blkt 19:33:14 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:26 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:27 codeknitty [~AndChat29@triband-mum-120.60.12.79.mtnl.net.in] has joined #lisp 19:34:06 shwouchkie: show us the code on which it hangs 19:34:07 -!- codeknitty [~AndChat29@triband-mum-120.60.12.79.mtnl.net.in] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:25 mathrick__ [~mathrick@94.144.63.81] has joined #lisp 19:35:58 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@149.172.198.162] has 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[~easyipad@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:00:12 hugod [~user@rrcs-98-101-136-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:42 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 20:02:35 senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:58 -!- `fogus [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:04:08 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-64-134.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:06:06 -!- mathrick__ is now known as mathrick 20:08:23 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:08:36 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:11:13 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:11:34 -!- konaya [~konaya@c83-250-171-50.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 20:13:05 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:13:17 -!- cnl [~pony@91.203.66.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 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joined #lisp 20:37:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:39:43 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:40:07 -!- segv_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-148-198.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv_] 20:40:18 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:41:42 -!- felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:43:26 yates [~user@nc-71-54-138-0.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:40 does cl-svg have a way to generate eps from the scene? 20:44:19 i wouldn't hold your breath for an answer 20:44:28 *yates* turns red in the face 20:44:50 is there a common open-source tool to convert svg to eps? 20:45:42 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:43 albert-irc [~albert@adsl-71-156-38-115.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:45 i don't think that people in here routinely engage themselves in conversion of svg to eps, so, you'll have to find out for yourself 20:46:53 stassats: it was a bad gamble.. 20:47:27 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:47:40 fsvehla [~Fullmoon@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:48:44 surprisingly, the name of the utility is "convert" 20:49:12 -!- peterhil- [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:51:46 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:52:46 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aclu215.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 20:53:28 inkscape can be made to do svg to foo, too 20:53:50 ewe. 20:55:00 (from the command-line) 20:56:35 Krystof: ok thanks. but i've seen inkscape misbehave recently - doesn't quite seem stable yet. 20:56:38 -!- sellout [~Adium@ip-64-134-223-159.public.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:56 sellout 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[~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #lisp 21:43:48 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 21:51:25 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:19 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 21:52:51 brandonz_ [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:04 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:30 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 21:58:01 -!- nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has left #lisp 21:58:30 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:59:22 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 22:00:26 any newbie lisper that do like to do virtual pair programming? 22:00:58 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:26 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-12.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:36 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-12.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:02:36 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 22:02:39 browndwarf [~browndwar@pool-71-178-235-42.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:54 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:05:22 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:01 virtual ? wth 22:06:19 do you think we are all virtual here ? 22:09:17 you mean like this guy did for the ICFP contest? http://directed-procrastination.blogspot.ca/2012/07/adventures-in-collaborative-coding-with.html 22:09:58 skype+screen 22:10:31 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 22:10:48 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 22:10:52 -!- newbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:11:06 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:14 newbie_coder_ [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has joined #lisp 22:11:38 -!- newbie_coder_ is now known as newbie_coder 22:11:55 wbooze, ??? 22:12:44 i was thinking of screen, for some reason i did not think of the skype part...tired i guess 22:12:53 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:30 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-244-250.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:14:14 Joreji_ [~thomas@85-003.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 22:14:24 i was thinking more of screen 22:14:42 i can barely run skype, terrible internet connection at my end 22:15:04 so, what's the point? 22:15:31 what's the point of what? 22:15:41 fsvehla [~Fullmoon@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 22:15:45 of snorting cocaine! 22:16:22 my question was pretty basic, i'm new to programming, will like to hook up with someone at the same level who is also keen on level 22:16:35 do you have a server you're willing to share? 22:16:59 joekarma, well, if i find someone i can always set something up 22:17:34 how can you do pair programming with just screen? 22:17:38 also, I agree with stassats that there's not much point trying if you can't get at least voice working... would be hard to communicate without it 22:17:50 you can attach to screen 22:17:57 i can do voice with skype or google voice 22:18:29 bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:37 and worse case, i can split the screen and have a chat window in one section 22:18:39 shwouchk_ [5251abcd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.81.171.205] has joined #lisp 22:18:42 newbie_coder: I helped this guy a while back, we just used irc and github. 22:18:42 hello 22:19:00 pavelpenev, i figure sharing a REPL live will be much faster 22:19:26 but then again, i see no point in pair programming at all 22:19:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-003.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:19:38 newbie_coder: it does sound fun, but what level are you at? you say you're a newbie, but newbie how? what problems are you looking to solve? do you have something in particular you're working on? 22:19:39 newbie_coder: when you are tutoring someone, speed isn't the most important thing. 22:19:41 stassats, good for you, most people see no point in lisp either 22:20:21 how do I make a function that without using outside parameters and that is called by regular invocation rather than funcall, that remembers how many times it was called? 22:20:24 ah, how touching! 22:20:24 joekarma, i've been into lisp for a month, programming for about a year, but i'm getting hang of it, i don't know my level 22:20:45 I think a shared screen could be frustrating for people due to the C-a issue and also because most people are very particular about their emacs configurations 22:20:49 shwouchk_: just a closure 22:20:51 clhs l-t-v 22:20:51 load-time-value: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_ld_tim.htm 22:21:11 shwouchk_: that was for you 22:21:13 Bike: (let ... lambda ...)? 22:21:15 -!- tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 22:21:16 shwouchk, have the function inside the body of a let statement, 22:21:31 well, you will have to call the lambda with funcall 22:21:44 stassats: thanks 22:21:57 newbie_coder: I know 22:22:00 i assumed by "no outside parameters" that you didn't want closures 22:22:13 shwouchk_: (let ((x 0)) (defun counter () (incf x))) 22:22:13 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:22:16 i thought you don't want to call with funcall? 22:22:20 stuffing integers into l-t-v isn't the easiest thing 22:22:26 newbie_coder: thats what I'm trying to avoid 22:22:37 then defun like pavelpenev wrote above 22:22:42 pavelpenev: but will it be valid outside the let? 22:22:49 yes 22:22:52 yes, that's the point of closures. 22:22:56 (defun foo () (let ((counter (load-time-value (list 1)))) (incf (car counter)))) 22:22:57 that's why it's called a closure 22:23:07 look ma, no closures! 22:23:08 shwouchk_: yes, defun binds functions globaly, unlike scheme's define 22:23:19 aha 22:23:20 http://www.sqlkorma.com/ I wonder if anyone's cloned this for CL yet. 22:23:20 the function is enclosed within the let binding 22:23:21 good 22:23:32 I think I really like it, the more I think about it. 22:23:34 ok now there are too many people, so thanks all 22:23:49 I'd love to hear about other interesting sql abstractions. s-sql is nice, but this seems even nicer. 22:23:55 also, stassats I'm alright with closures 22:23:57 at least the concept 22:23:58 sykopomp: i stopped reading after "Clojure is beautiful." 22:24:36 stassats: I'm not about to start doing clojure, but I think the concept might be The Right Thing for sql abstraction. 22:24:41 wah hah hah 22:24:48 I spend a lot of time writing SQL :\ 22:25:19 joekarma, i don't have anything in particular i'm working on, maybe bring some obsolete libraries to date, or unify one that has too many common ones or port one... i dunno 22:25:43 -!- mccolgst [~smccolgan@216.214.197.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:25:50 what? I actually like SQL databases a lot. My only real issue with it is that the actual query language is a bit verbose and doesn't play nice with composition. 22:25:53 stassats: My life has improved once I started ignoring the ridiculous marketing, and looking at the actual ideas, and only then rejecting them :) 22:26:00 so you end up writing the same chunks over and over 22:26:10 stassats: l-t-v is a little beyond my current attention... :) 22:26:11 if you can actually abstract stuff and compose later, though... 22:26:15 amazing the effect a site's pastelly, subtly hue shifted colour scheme can have on the perceived beauty of the code therein 22:26:37 yeah, the color scheme is stupid 22:26:58 therefore, i'm going to dismiss the idea as a whole 22:27:26 second question 22:27:46 is there a better way to do partial evaluation than lambda and bind part of the arguments? 22:27:50 or, flip side, this colour scheme is sexy! ergo, this tool is the right one for the job 22:28:06 you mean partial application? 22:28:23 there are some aptly misnamed things, like curry 22:28:48 can be found in alexandria 22:29:49 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-194-51.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 22:30:03 newbie_coder: I suggest you find something specific to work on, whether a project or a book or a set of programming challenges... if you do that and set up the infrastructure for pair programming I'm sure you'll find an interested party to pair with 22:30:03 *sykopomp* assumes no one's working on anything similar for CL. 22:30:06 stassats: I do mean partial application 22:30:24 -!- browndwarf [~browndwar@pool-71-178-235-42.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 22:30:32 shwouchk_: i myself like the lambda approach, it's easy, built in, and clear 22:30:35 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:30:44 joekarma, okay 22:31:17 also, any recommended way to know right away if I have the right number of closing parens without deleting and readding them in emacs? maybe some way to color each matching pair differently? 22:31:33 stassats: alright, good enough :) 22:31:35 use paredit, the right amount of parens at all times! 22:32:15 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 22:32:25 except when it's not! 22:32:33 even if you don't, introduce some (show-paren-mode 1) into your .emacs 22:32:38 still recommend paredit though :) 22:32:45 joekarma: then you can only blame yourself! 22:33:10 look at both 22:33:13 thanks 22:33:20 i use both at the same time 22:33:26 C-u del and C-q ) <-- essentials for any paredit using coder 22:33:50 or you can cut on cut-n-paste! 22:34:35 good point, that works too 22:35:03 stassats: thats exactly what I was looking for, thanks! 22:35:40 i use mouse-copy for copying proximate code around 22:36:00 https://github.com/vsedach/mouse-copy 22:36:17 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:55 stassats: that is really pretty neat 22:37:03 just the thing to revive slime-tips with (: 22:37:08 i should really learn to use emacs. :-/ 22:37:12 stassats: does it reindent automatically? 22:37:28 no 22:37:46 oh well, still cool 22:38:05 could be made to, though 22:38:44 yeah, I think I'll make it copy into a temp buffer and reindent.... that's what I'd generally want, for posting gists and the like 22:39:27 why a temporary buffer? can't you reindent in-place? 22:39:49 because it'll be skewed after a copy if you don't insert it at the beginning of a line 22:40:22 I suppose I could do that I'm not well practiced in elisp 22:41:01 well, since that sounds like a cool thing, i'll add it myself 22:41:18 -!- shwouchk_ [5251abcd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.81.171.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:42:21 yena_ [~yena@akasha.ayai.com] has joined #lisp 22:42:22 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.223] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:42:40 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:45:08 -!- yena [~yena@72.177.30.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:45:08 -!- yena_ is now known as yena 22:45:14 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c17d8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:48:02 stassats: I played around with mouse-copy. I originally misunderstood what it's supposed to do but it's very cool! Useful for copying back and forth from the repl especially 22:48:37 mouse-copy like that allegro thing? 22:49:21 joekarma: https://github.com/stassats/mouse-copy now with indentation! 22:49:32 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 22:49:44 ha, great, thanks 22:50:12 there a several things to add yet, like controlling vertical spaces, like it does with horizontal 22:50:41 for easier moving of top-level defuns 22:51:10 sykopomp: no idea what that allegro thing is 22:52:34 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@85-003.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:52:45 sykopomp: looks like, yes 22:53:19 but better! it inserts spaces where neded 22:53:44 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~textual@69.164.192.175] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:54:13 ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 22:56:08 dnolen [~user@rrcs-98-101-136-2.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:56:52 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:56:52 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.21] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:57:14 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 22:57:31 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:37 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.21] has joined #lisp 22:59:07 stassats: https://gist.github.com/4075454 23:00:20 stassats: felideon and I wrote that a while back to shut up a particularly irritating allegro ide user. I haven't really gotten into the habit of using it. 23:00:40 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:14 updated the gist with the bindings I use. 23:01:37 don't use, you mean 23:01:58 yeah 23:02:00 I used it just now, though! 23:02:06 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:03:06 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 23:04:52 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-55-102.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 23:05:19 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has left #lisp 23:06:43 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.222.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:06:58 what is a good way to add debugging code to an app? 23:07:14 I mean debug output 23:07:38 (format *debug-io* "debug output") 23:07:42 wrap the guilty parties with PRINT 23:08:10 and use M-r/M-UP to remove the print statements. 23:08:24 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:08:29 print is not powerful enough! 23:08:34 stassats, is *debug-io* printed to std io? 23:08:43 yes 23:08:53 I sometimes write a (defun dbg (label obj) (format *debug-io* "DBG ~a: ~s" label obj) obj) 23:09:03 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:09:13 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-218-162.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:09:15 sykopomp: https://github.com/stassats/lisp-config/blob/master/configs/share.lisp#L46 that's better 23:09:34 ah yes 23:09:41 -!- brandonz_ [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:10:16 stassats, but wouldn't it slow the code if it is always compiled in/executed? 23:10:44 so, don't always compile it 23:10:48 the important bit, though, is that (error-if-1 | (return-1)) => M-( => (error-if-1 (dbg "looks like 1" | (return-1)) => M-r 23:12:04 lost me 23:12:30 stassats, yes, but if I don't want to mess around with the code too much? 23:12:55 #+debug is your friend. Sometimes. 23:12:59 just write perfect code, no debugging required 23:13:10 ") 23:13:12 :) 23:13:25 i only add debugging output when i actually debug it, since there's no way to know ahead of time where you'll need to put it 23:13:49 well 23:14:11 but I would hope not to remove it but instead just have it not compiled 23:14:34 I thought maybe to write a macro that puts the debug code in only when needed 23:14:42 and it also pollutes the code unnecessarily 23:14:48 thats true 23:15:06 even if you don't compiled it 23:15:20 and as sykopomp said, just use #+debug, no macros 23:15:40 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 23:17:50 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has left #lisp 23:18:23 (defmacro dbg (label obj) #+debug`(format ...) #-debug`(progn ,obj)) or such 23:18:24 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-133-23.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 23:19:03 Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:44 what is #+debug? 23:20:51 ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.69] has joined #lisp 23:21:12 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 23:21:16 clhs #+ 23:21:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhq.htm 23:21:23 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 23:21:28 thanks 23:22:34 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:22:44 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:23:20 [3]> #+ t 'yeah 23:23:20 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-133-23.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:23:27 seems not to work 23:23:34 am I doing something wrong? 23:23:35 think again 23:23:37 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:24:56 Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:13 tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:39 maybe I'm dumb, but thats what I understand 23:25:44 feature expressions aren't just arbitrary things to evaluate, it does a lookup in *features* along with some and/etc stuff 23:26:11 ah 23:27:13 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-142-156.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:26 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 23:28:44 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:26 -!- unsymbol [~unsymbol@unaffiliated/unsymbol] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 23:31:00 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:33:08 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-2-96.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:11 ed_g [~quassel@67-5-182-223.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:08 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-127-209.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 23:37:56 clhs step 23:37:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_step.htm 23:38:44 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:38:45 I don't get how to work with step 23:39:03 just don't use it 23:39:21 it's not going to really work great with slime and sbcl 23:39:50 Im using clisp mostly 23:39:53 but alright 23:40:09 well, clisp and slime are the worst possible combination when it comes to debugging 23:43:17 stassats: i have no clue what would need to be done to get step running on sbcl+slime, but a nice stepper could help debugging here and there. right now it just crashes. 23:43:54 -!- shwouchk [~shwouchk@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44:21 -!- shwouchkie [~shwouchk@bzq-82-81-171-205.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:45:08 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:40 shwouchk [~shwouchk@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has joined #lisp 23:45:42 shwouchkie [~shwouchk@bzq-84-108-188-36.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:42 dlind [~dlind@130.243.8.14] has joined #lisp 23:47:19 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 23:47:26 shwouchkster [~shwouchk@bzq-84-110-44-159.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:03 -!- shwouchkie [~shwouchk@bzq-84-108-188-36.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:51:17 shwouchkie [~shwouchk@bzq-84-110-44-159.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:31 -!- shwouchk [~shwouchk@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:52:52 ahhhhh 23:53:00 sorry, nevermind 23:53:53 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:57:23 catmtking_ [~catmtking@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-142-156.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 23:57:30 -!- catmtking_ [~catmtking@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-142-156.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 23:59:41 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]