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02:16:32 clhs load 02:16:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_load.htm 02:17:10 H4ns: thanks 02:17:27 is H4ns a bot? 02:17:32 no, clhs is. 02:17:42 sorry! 02:17:50 erm, i mean specbot 02:21:54 "The name "CL-SVG" does not designate any package." 02:23:44 i thought i had that since (ql:system-list) listed cl-svg 02:23:44 you probably have to load cl-svg first 02:23:53 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:23:53 did you ql:quickload it? 02:24:19 i did now.. 02:24:21 yates: that's everything quicklisp knows about, not everything you have loaded 02:24:32 thanks - right! 02:25:49 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 02:27:12 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:01 -!- tiglog [~topeak@123.114.120.113] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:29:11 if a have a package foo, do the functions (and variables) defined within it (e.g., defun bar...) have to be accessed with the prefix foo:bar? 02:29:31 in the repl, that is? 02:29:45 you could use in-package or use-package. 02:31:31 if you are inside the package no 02:32:40 ok, here's a cl-svg test package: http://paste.lisp.org/display/133689 02:32:54 but i don't see how to run anything to test it! 02:33:53 if you exported it but are not inside, you can access it with "foo:bar" if you didn't export it, you will have to access it with "foo::bar" 02:34:02 i tried running (cl-svg-tests:root) but it told me ; Evaluation aborted on #. 02:34:12 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:18 looks like thefile itself is supposed to be a test 02:34:39 Bike: you mean just loading it should produce some images? 02:35:21 try (cl-svg-tests::root) 02:35:26 looks like it. such as test.svg. 02:37:19 but it do probably be best to type (in-package #:cl-svg-tests) then (root) 02:39:05 right - ok thanks Bike and segmond - got the test.svg file out 02:40:10 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.145.196.155] has joined #lisp 02:44:06 oh well that seems stupid 02:44:26 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 02:44:32 the various let*'s are creating a scene and then overwriting the test.svg file! 02:47:33 -!- linse [~marioooh@cpe-74-64-60-131.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 02:49:21 but the examples are impressive! 02:49:26 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.145.196.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:49:59 (i modified the package to writeout to test1.svg, test2.svg, etc.) 02:52:05 kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has joined #lisp 02:52:25 yates: that seems stupid only because you don't use it the way the author has intended the file to be used 02:52:45 yates: he intended that you load the file into emacs and then evaluate each test individually using slime 02:53:58 H4ns: how did you determine that? 02:54:05 springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has joined #lisp 02:54:14 by looking at the source 02:54:17 it's not stated in the package 02:54:49 no. it is something that most lispers would guess 02:55:20 yeah, we really should strive to conserve filenames... 02:55:25 and files. 02:55:33 no. you should learn lisp 02:55:37 yates, does it work for you, are you happy? if so good. 02:58:01 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-60-57.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 02:58:36 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@host81-156-69-168.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:01:33 H4ns: i would think that a package that defines functions, a la functional programming style, would be more appropriate for lisp 03:02:00 packages don't define functions. they're just collections of symbols. 03:03:18 e.g., (defun rectangle-test (output-filename) ...) 03:03:35 Bike: really? so ql:quickload is not a function defined by the quicklisp package? 03:03:53 yates is there a purpose to your argument? 03:04:04 yates: you don't seem to know enough about lisp to make suggestions what would be appropriate for it, sorry. 03:04:56 thus i should go away? 03:05:32 yates: it's not, no 03:06:22 segmond: yes: understanding. 03:06:28 packages don't even "know" about functions. CL exports SETF, but it's used both as a macro name and as a part of function names. 03:06:37 gustav__ [~gustav___@c-b642e255.39-12-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 03:07:21 Bike: so if ql:quickload is not a function, why can i evaluate it like this: (ql:quickload 'cl-svg) ? 03:07:42 ql:quickload is a symbol 03:07:43 I didn't say it wasn't a function, I said it wasn't defined by the package. 03:08:03 ql:quickload is a symbol in the ql package. it names a function. 03:08:30 where was it defined (defun'ed) if not in the quicklisp package? 03:08:57 functions are not defined in packages, they are named by symbols. 03:09:08 and symbols are contained in packages. 03:09:17 H4ns: then what is defun? 03:09:32 defun is a symbol in the common-lisp package 03:09:45 the symbol names a macro that associates a symbol with a function. 03:09:46 ah. ok thanks 03:09:47 -!- yates [~user@nc-71-54-138-0.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.96.1] 03:10:44 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16:31 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 03:23:16 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:23:40 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:57 -!- kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:44:46 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:34 -!- springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:52:18 klltkr [~klltkr@host81-156-69-168.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 03:57:31 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:00:42 piko_ [~piko@194.228.13.83] has joined #lisp 04:01:50 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 04:02:30 kaid [~kaid@123.116.48.32] has joined #lisp 04:03:23 -!- benny [~user@i577A7502.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:08:16 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:23 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 04:10:52 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 04:11:42 -!- kaid [~kaid@123.116.48.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:13:03 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:13:15 senj [~textual@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:18 -!- senj [~textual@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:14:11 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:07 senj [~textual@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:09 -!- senj [~textual@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:15:32 segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-130-227.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:36 kaid [~kaid@123.116.48.32] has joined #lisp 04:16:51 senj [~textual@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:53 -!- senj [~textual@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:17:30 senj [~textual@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:32 -!- senj [~textual@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:17:57 -!- segmond [~segmond@adsl-99-150-128-77.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:20:35 senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:36 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:21:35 sodel [~user@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:26 -!- kaid [~kaid@123.116.48.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:38 kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has joined #lisp 04:31:09 senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:10 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:34:55 -!- orthecreedence [~kvirc@c-67-180-62-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:35:04 orthecreedence [~kvirc@67.180.62.214] has joined #lisp 04:35:23 errat|c|2 [~kvirc@c-67-180-62-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:09 hello 04:36:47 does anybody know how one might implement coroutines in any particular lisp implementation? 04:37:20 i'd really like *real* coroutines and want to avoid cl-cont 04:37:49 orthecreedence: i don't think any common lisp implements coroutines 04:38:09 yeah, im fairly cetain they don't 04:38:23 ah, you asked "how" :) 04:38:24 i was hoping anybody would be able to give me some tips on where to start if i wanted to do it myself 04:38:41 i saw a hack for coroutines in sbcl once, but it was, well, a hack 04:38:42 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 04:38:44 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 04:38:55 orthecreedence: did you look at cmucl's multiprocessing and yield? 04:38:56 Bike: i think i know what you're talking about...the assembly one? 04:39:02 yeah. 04:39:08 -!- sodel [~user@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 04:39:21 H4ns, no haven't ever used cmucl 04:39:46 i always just asusmed it had os threads like the other implementations 04:39:51 *RenJuan* guess cl-cont is actually continuations 04:40:19 orthecreedence: it does not. it has a cooperative mp implementation. 04:40:38 interesting. thanks for the tip, i'll check it out. 04:42:05 RenJuan: yes, it translates your code to continuation-passing style so you can use call/cc and such. 04:42:35 and continuations can be used to build coroutines 04:42:53 but the problem with cl-cont is that any calling code needs to be wrapped in the macros 04:43:06 -!- RenJuan [~juan@cpe-72-228-190-243.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 04:43:22 segv_ [~mb@dslb-094-223-012-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:33 What are you trying to do? 04:46:18 -!- xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:46:39 i built a library for async programming in lisp 04:46:42 it works great 04:46:53 but uses CPS and has tons of callbacks flying around everywhere 04:47:02 i really want to convert it to have a blocking interface 04:47:14 coroutines seem to be the way to go 04:48:22 -!- segv_ [~mb@dslb-094-223-012-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv_] 04:48:52 also, using coroutines, im fairly certain i could create an async verison of usocket, giving just about every driver built on usocket instant async scalability without any code changes 04:49:29 otherwise, its basically converting every existing driver to CPS by hand...not fun 04:49:30 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-108-45-162-198.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:49:34 -!- Vicfred [~Grothendi@189.143.125.204] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:50:03 with the amount of dynamically-scoped state in CL, I'm far from convinced that the main obstacle to "scalability" is OS scheduling. 04:50:14 orthecreedence: cmucl's mp basically does much of that. 04:50:57 pkhuong: you think there's enough state flying around in each thread that it would bog down? 04:51:19 btw, im installing cmucl now and giving the mp a shot :) 04:51:28 (thread meaning coroutine) 04:52:26 orthecreedence: the biggest issue about cmucl that you'll find is that it is a pain to build. if you like what it provides in its binary form, it is rather nice. 04:53:14 i'll keep that in mind. it doesnt just have a makefile or something? 04:53:19 orthecreedence: I think that contiguous stacks and dynamic scoping easily add up to a couple MB/thread. 04:53:23 i suppose that wouldnt be lispy enough 04:53:40 orthecreedence: nothing like that. when i say "a pain to build" i mean just that. 04:53:50 orthecreedence: An important reason for SBCL's existence is CMUCL's build "process" 04:54:06 cmucl's the one where it overwrites a running lisp image, right? 04:54:14 pkhuong: even if the state isnt necesarily separate for each micro-thread? 04:54:59 it seems to me there's a lot of shared state, and if an implementation was aware of this, it wouldnt need to duplicate it 04:55:04 orthecreedence: that's not CL anymore. And if you're going to go for a DSL, there are simpler approaches. 04:55:45 wait, im confused by "not CL anymore"...what do you mean by that? 04:56:34 if you don't try to maintain the dynamically scoped state mandated by the standard, we're not using CL anymore. 04:56:45 ah i see 04:57:24 i saw some of your DSL implementation on reddit and actually did like it a lot 04:57:32 i since added the futures you were talking about to my library 04:57:52 its still going to take a lot of work to reprogram drivers though 04:58:11 but maybe its worth it. 04:58:31 it seems the standard term is now promise. 04:58:44 -!- segmond_ is now known as segmond 04:58:49 ah...too late :) 04:59:13 future sounds better to me anyway 05:02:32 lmj` [~lmj`@c-71-192-51-221.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:06 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:06:45 is the cmucl binary 32bit? 05:06:47 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:07:07 yes 05:07:10 its having trouble loading my .so in cffi 05:07:16 ah great 05:07:29 looks like i might be able to try out that build process 05:08:13 "enjoy" 05:08:19 :) thanks! 05:08:38 I have occassional issues with sbcl memory growing too large during compilation. 05:08:46 orthecreedence: it's not like building yourself will yield an amd64 program. 05:09:03 oh? 05:09:09 (gc :full t) fixes it -- but sometimes it crashes before I can do that 05:09:23 lmj`: increase the heap size. 05:09:32 Of course I can set the heap size, but this is for compiling tests 05:09:38 So I want it to work everywhere 05:10:36 It's also fixed by not compiling tests, which is the default I have now. 05:10:43 lmj`: the default heap size varies. 05:11:03 orthecreedence: cmucl is its own native code compiler. Without an amd64 backend, no amd64 binary. 05:11:22 ok 05:11:39 ill just recompile my lib to be 32bit, im guessing that will be a tiny bit easier 05:12:10 lmj`: Can sbcl be "encouraged" to gc more often while compiling? 05:12:20 oops, to pkhuong 05:12:56 From another perspective, the problem is that the 5am:is expansion is way too big. 05:13:37 lmj`: generational GCs are a hack, particularly gencgc... hard to tell if any tweak will be overall beneficial. 05:14:55 sweet, got it going. about to test out the mp stuff...although i don't doubt you, pkhuong, i do hope that you're wrong :) 05:15:10 it would sure save me a lot of time 05:15:41 orthecreedence: if you look for documentation on cmucl's mp package, look no further. there is none. 05:15:50 H4ns, haha 05:15:55 seriously? 05:16:05 is the implementation in bordeaux? 05:16:11 orthecreedence: yes. not that it has disturbed me in the past. 05:16:19 I am considering replacing the IS macro with assert, and/or writing my own 30-line minimal replacement for 5am 05:16:22 orthecreedence: it is in bordeaux-threads. and it has yield 05:16:32 I can sort of see now why there are so many test frameworks 05:16:45 CrLF0710 [~user@114.96.75.60] has joined #lisp 05:16:47 is there a place to read about the way it works? 05:16:58 orthecreedence: the source code is your best bet 05:17:14 fair enough. thanks :) 05:19:19 heh. there used to be a multiprocessing section in the cmucl manual which read "Multiprocessing is supported on the x86 platform.". they've removed that :) 05:21:06 thats annoying 05:21:50 maybe its on the web archive 05:21:53 -!- kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 05:22:11 I think there's one file on their ftp with a SIGALRM handler, stack switching calls, and a warning not to do that. 05:22:16 orthecreedence: you don't need to search. "Multiprocessing is supported on the x86 platform." was the complete text of that section. 05:22:39 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.244.81] has joined #lisp 05:22:46 ok, thanks 05:24:32 do you know what year(s) this section was around? 05:24:57 2004 or so, but really. it had no information beyond that sentence. 05:24:59 why do you want a section with nothing in it. 05:25:26 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:25:32 oh, it didnt register the section was blank 05:25:35 oops 05:26:01 H4ns, orthecreedence: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.cmucl.general/1071 05:26:23 -!- engblom` is now known as engblom 05:26:23 -!- engblom [~user@86-60-152-181-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi] has quit [Changing host] 05:26:23 engblom [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has joined #lisp 05:26:52 pkhuong: Why shouldn't sbcl run the gc when it gets to close to max heap size? Either that or crash soon. 05:27:10 After compiling, I'll sometimes have 500 meg reported by (room). 05:27:25 lmj`: it does run the gc when it gets close to the heap size. 05:27:46 ArmyOfBruce: thanks, reading over this now 05:28:02 springz [~springz@116.226.234.55] has joined #lisp 05:28:12 But ... it doesn't. I see 500 meg in (room), I then run tests, and it crashes. 05:28:17 orthecreedence: You won't feel that it was a rewarding usage of your time (nor of mine to look it up) :) 05:28:19 If I gc first, no problem 05:28:38 Goes down to ~80 meg. 05:28:57 so basically, it's doing the context switching that the OS does, but in lisp itself? 05:29:21 lmj, what platform are you running on? 05:29:26 lmj`: what makes you think 500 MB is "close" to the heap size? 05:29:27 are you using stable release? 05:29:30 orthecreedence: yes, that much i'd expect 05:29:50 i find it rather annoying that gmame does not display a year in the dates 05:29:57 hmm, maybe it wont do me much good then 05:30:03 H4ns: was just thinking the same thing 05:30:03 H4ns: that was from 2003. 05:30:10 lmj, you might want to ask in #sbcl 05:30:24 pkhuong: Because the default heap size is 512mb on the machine I'm testing on? 05:30:35 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:42 Again, this is for tests that anyone should run, without tweaking their heap size. 05:30:59 lmj`: really? pretty sure that was bumped to at least 1G on all x86oids. 05:32:00 I don't think so -- it crashes at 500mb pretty consistently. 05:32:06 yates [~user@nc-71-54-138-0.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:30 never with --heap-size 1000 05:32:51 But, basically, GC is triggered by allocation. For any hard trigger, it's probably possible to find a pathological test case... and since SBCL's GC is mostly copying, there's always the risk that the GC will run out of space, unless we always waste half the heap. 05:34:09 If you get close to the heap size in utilisation, a couple of minor GCs were probably executed on the way. Depending on the lifetime of transient references it may well be that none of the minor GCs were useful. 05:35:07 sabra [~wol@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 05:37:06 how do i remove the requirement for package prefixes for a specific package in a .lisp file? 05:37:34 pkhuong: on Linux x86, (- SB-VM:DYNAMIC-SPACE-END SB-VM:DYNAMIC-SPACE-START) is 536870912 05:37:53 yates: in-package or use-package/etc., still 05:38:04 or :use in defpackage 05:38:41 or importing. 05:38:52 Is there a canonical way to test if a function exists in a Common Lisp image (sbcl specifically), like Clojure's resolve function? 05:38:59 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.244.81] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 05:39:12 yena_, (fboundp 'foo) ? 05:40:42 Thank you! I searched on "function bind", didn't think to search on "bound", doh. 05:41:04 lmj`: you seem to be running a relatively old (~6 months or more) version. There's been a couple tweaks to GC triggers and to the default dynamic space size since then. 05:41:15 CL-USER> (defun apropos-functions (name) (remove-if-not #'fboundp (apropos-list name))) 05:41:22 CL-USER> (apropos-functions "nsubstitute-if") 05:41:22 (NSUBSTITUTE-IF NSUBSTITUTE-IF-NOT SB-SEQUENCE:NSUBSTITUTE-IF 05:41:22 SB-SEQUENCE:NSUBSTITUTE-IF-NOT) 05:41:49 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:42:18 pkhuong: That number is for sbcl-1.1 and the latest in git. 05:42:45 both report 536870912 05:44:56 ah right sorry, wrong tree. 05:46:29 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:46:38 sbcl is just one aspect of this issue; allegro express outright refuses these large IS macro expansions 05:47:13 bxx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 05:47:27 1.1.1 might fare better. 05:47:43 There's a couple tangentially-related improvements. 05:47:46 I was referring to 1.1.1 05:48:04 (forgot the last .1) 05:50:53 thanks for the help guys, im off 05:50:53 teggi [~teggi@123.21.160.126] has joined #lisp 05:51:03 The problem with 5am/eos is that the large IS expansion is kept hidden by the default behavior of not compiling tests. 05:53:01 maybe our own REPL could heuristically force full gcs while waiting for input. Then we'd get to mark that stuff as slime-only ;) 05:53:04 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.181.158] has joined #lisp 05:53:36 segv_ [~mb@dslb-094-223-012-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:17 jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-224.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:55:33 -!- orthecreedence [~kvirc@67.180.62.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:57:20 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:59:03 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:59:09 pkhuong: Is the default heap size going to stay at 512? 06:00:21 In any case, I think I'm going to replace 5AM:IS with ASSERT, which should fix all platforms and all implementations. 06:00:53 for x86? It might get bumped up a bit over time, but it seems reasonable to suppose that people who need large heaps will just use x86-64. 06:07:00 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:07:27 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:07:51 pkhuong: Yeah 512 is fine, it's really the fault of these test macros. (when (idle-for-ten-seconds) (gc :full t)) somewhere couldn't hurt, though. 06:07:54 -!- shwouchkster [~shwouchk@bzq-82-81-15-60.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:07:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:08:24 But I say that half-joking. 06:10:41 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:11:05 pkhuong: Does compilation especially cause delayed gcing? I don't remember noticing big numbers in (room) followed by crashes, other than this case. 06:11:55 pkhuong: Also, what are the performance bottlenecks during compilation? 06:12:17 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:06 no, but it does manipulate a lot of pointers, and there are a few pretty large pointy data structures that are only cleared at the end othe process. 06:13:50 -!- segmond [~segmond@adsl-99-150-130-227.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:14:26 segmond [~segmond@adsl-99-103-190-27.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:30 and.. most of the time is spent in subtyping tests, in the flow analysis pass and converting sexps to IR, iirc. 06:16:58 pkhuong: ok, thanks for all 06:19:53 -!- springz [~springz@116.226.234.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:22:23 kaid [~kaid@123.116.48.32] has joined #lisp 06:22:25 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:23:14 -!- tensorpudding 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_d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 09:57:53 bxxx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 09:57:58 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@65.160.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:59:25 dd72ddd [~Psytek@blender.whatbox.ca] has joined #lisp 09:59:32 -!- dd72ddd [~Psytek@blender.whatbox.ca] has left #lisp 10:01:03 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:01:24 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:01:53 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:36 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 10:03:46 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.181.26] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 10:04:16 lol, just typed flot instead of flet, which in german nearly means quick 10:06:05 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 10:06:25 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 10:07:04 aww, i'm always mixing up parens when extending a let to one var more 10:07:15 how do you guys do that? (in emacs) 10:07:19 maybe it's just the morning... 10:07:23 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 10:07:44 Kvaks [~kvaks@209.157.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 10:09:31 anybody using C-o to get one more line? 10:10:20 well, it's just when i duplicate the last var in let, then i forget often to drop that additional closing paren... 10:10:22 ml__: use paredit helps if you're mixing up parens. 10:10:37 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.179.188] has joined #lisp 10:11:08 rpert [~rpert@95.168.116.235] has joined #lisp 10:11:26 ah 10:11:53 -!- Adeon [juolam1@kosh.org.aalto.fi] has quit [Quit: yoink] 10:12:06 many thanks, i'm going to read into it 10:13:24 snearch [~snearch@f053000137.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:14:25 ml__: it takes a while to get used to, but it really makes editing lisp code a lot more fun 10:15:09 ml__: and, at least when you're starting out, don't forget that C-q ( and C-q ) will insert bare parens no matter what paredit would like to do. 10:15:16 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:16:16 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.179.188] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 10:16:50 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.179.188] has joined #lisp 10:16:50 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 10:18:36 bitonic [~user@93-40-92-227.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:20:03 -!- kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:20:41 Adeon [~banaanit@109.73.169.52] has joined #lisp 10:21:06 oh, that sounds like parenedit straightjacket 10:21:35 pegu [~user@c242C76D9.static.as2116.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:44 ml__: yeah, it has its drawbacks. but once i got used to it (especially the movement/wrapping commands) i can't really live without it (and really really wish there was a ruby/javascript version of it) 10:23:53 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@80.63.227.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:23:56 is it so much better than C-M-f C-M-b? 10:23:57 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:23:57 mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:24:37 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-122-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:38 ml__: try it and see for yourself 10:24:50 you're in the body of a when and you realize that it really should be an if: backwards-up-list 10:24:54 oops. 10:25:06 anyway, i was going to write a longer example, but just try it for a bit. 10:27:10 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:28:17 I'm using sbcl (1.1.1, but get same problem with 1.0.58), com.dvlsoft.clon, and clsql (postgresql-socket backend) which results in a memory corruption issue (http://paste.lisp.org/display/133694) when I run the binary image, but not when I simply load the code, is this due to FFI and standalone binary executables? I can make a small sample which works, but when I load all my lisp code it will crash, any ideas? 10:28:36 -!- springz [~springz@116.226.234.55] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:37 ml__: you might also be interested in redshank, though it somewhat assumes you use paredit. i personally find paredit to be a bigger incremental step forward than redshank. 10:28:45 Joreji [~thomas@66-102.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 10:29:04 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 10:30:10 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:30:19 oh 10:31:03 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.72.32.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 10:31:26 yay, redshank has a video on their home page with a "command log mode" buffer 10:31:51 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:24 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 10:32:27 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] 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12:35:05 ludston [~ludston@CPE-58-167-80-25.lnse5.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:36:17 another question about structure initialisation 12:36:45 i wanted to pass in the size of a vector the structure will be holding 12:37:09 can i use a simple defstruct with initforms or do i have to write a separate function that creates the struct? 12:37:31 what do you need the vector size for? 12:37:43 it's an argument 12:37:48 well, i want to write a max-heap 12:38:17 the instance will have a vector of this size for all it's lifetime 12:38:27 at initialisation it should create it 12:38:40 i'd use clos and an initialize-instance method. 12:38:41 and the best spot for initialisation is the defstruct itself 12:38:45 ah 12:38:56 ml__: the best spot is to not use defstruct in the first place :) 12:38:56 thanks 12:39:00 aha 12:39:07 ^^ 12:42:12 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:44:08 you ment adding an :after wrapper to initialize-instance, not? 12:44:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:47:22 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.250.179] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 12:48:56 yes, that will work nicely 12:49:26 -!- ml__ [~ml@p3E9E4F01.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:49:37 i'd not provide an :initarg for your array and only a :reader, then use (setf (slot-value ...)) to set up the buffer vector in the :after method 12:49:47 it is not called "wrapper" but "method", btw. 12:50:56 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:52:10 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.176.26] has joined #lisp 12:54:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:54:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:56:13 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@80.63.227.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:57:05 mvilleneuve 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[~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:15:30 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 13:15:46 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053000137.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:18:19 CL-HEAP and minheap seem to be both nice projects, but 13:18:26 actually i need to remove elements from both ends 13:18:43 and update-key will be my most common operation 13:18:46 any suggestions? 13:18:52 should i use a simple balanced tree? 13:19:37 a hashtable? 13:19:44 sure i could keep two heaps, dunno where fibonacci heap gets O(1) update-key from 13:19:57 i need to remove max and min often 13:20:16 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 13:21:10 a hashtable has no order? so finding max and min is O(N) 13:21:20 right, it has no order 13:21:23 there are structures such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Min-max_heap 13:21:28 ah 13:21:43 maybe you can rework your strategy to not require finding max and min 13:22:37 :) 13:22:42 -!- _spearalot_ [~qalixa@194.218.229.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:22:58 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 13:23:09 seems better to me, this go bot, makes as black the best moves for black, and as white the best moves for white 13:23:18 making the best moves for black as white, would be, hmm? 13:23:31 :) 13:23:54 _spearalot_ [~qalixa@194.218.229.107] has joined #lisp 13:26:21 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-168-31-20.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:56 mabe i should partage the data at some point, and keep two simple heaps, one with the larger values for the delete-max operation and the other with smaller values for the delete-min operation 13:27:48 -!- kaid [~kaid@114.246.93.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:07 kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has joined #lisp 13:28:26 fiveop [~fiveop@p4FCDF622.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:48 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.228] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:34:50 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:13 ml__: Do you often need to find other values than min and max? 13:37:07 -!- prip_ [~foo@host131-124-dynamic.56-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:37:36 no, never 13:37:43 there are a lot up update-key operations 13:37:57 and a lot fewer delete-max delete-min operations 13:38:12 currently i'm thinking i'll have two limits 13:38:27 between both limits i'll keep the data unordered 13:38:54 and if an update-key passes the key over one limit, up or down, it'll be inserted to an ordinary heap 13:39:50 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:40:07 i mean, to the correct heap, i'll have two heaps: one for the large and delete-max, one for the small and delete-min 13:40:45 lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has joined #lisp 13:42:51 sometimes, when one of the heaps is exhausted, i have to iterate the unordered data between the limits, but it won't happen that often if i correctly size the heaps 13:42:52 hmm? 13:46:36 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:47:32 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:48:20 If you often need to find an element by key (in situations where you would normally use a hash table), I really think an ordinary binary tree might be the best solution. Otherwise, if you just need to access max and min, the min max heap suggested by galdor might be best. 13:48:30 doomlord [~doomlod@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:40 prip_ [~foo@host84-125-dynamic.37-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:51:53 i'll have a look at min-max-heaps, but i think there is no implementation "out there" 13:52:34 i'll have much more updates then removes, maybe i'll simply use two heaps, each one holding all the data 13:53:59 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-200-205.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 13:54:04 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 13:54:15 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-wbmmsxvadsjmaydb] has joined #lisp 13:57:48 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:58:13 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 14:00:36 linse [~marioooh@modemcable081.89-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:02:03 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.228] has joined #lisp 14:02:46 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-wbmmsxvadsjmaydb] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:04:37 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.225] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:05:33 liweinan_ [~liweinan@222.130.236.104] has joined #lisp 14:07:17 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:08:05 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.222.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:13:05 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #lisp 14:14:17 is there anything in slime to display data in a table, perhaps in the inspector? 14:14:33 what kind of table? 14:15:42 stassats: anything with more than two columns. 14:15:57 no, there's none 14:16:08 ok, thanks 14:17:43 -!- kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:20:05 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-npqxxqehhwtvzaza] has joined #lisp 14:22:31 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ] 14:23:12 -!- linse [~marioooh@modemcable081.89-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:57 linse [~marioooh@modemcable081.89-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:25:32 tcr1 [~tcr@41.13.28.252] has joined #lisp 14:26:20 xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:26:44 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p4FCDF622.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 14:30:06 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@41.13.28.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:31:51 -!- linse [~marioooh@modemcable081.89-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 14:31:53 _veer [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:53 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:31:53 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 14:32:01 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.210] has joined #lisp 14:32:52 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.71.162] has joined #lisp 14:33:14 chebastian [~chebastia@c-d875e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:33:16 tcr1 [~tcr@41.13.56.140] has joined #lisp 14:35:33 -!- p_l|work is now known as p_l 14:35:35 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:40:35 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:42:09 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:46:03 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:46:27 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.210] has joined #lisp 14:51:14 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 14:52:39 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 14:54:09 tcr2 [~tcr@41.115.204.179] has joined #lisp 14:54:35 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:55:14 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@41.13.56.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:55:17 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.210] has joined #lisp 15:01:54 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:01:57 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:03:09 lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has joined #lisp 15:03:25 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 15:03:30 jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-224.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:04:34 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:05:14 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:06:57 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 15:09:45 -!- niels1 [~niels@p4FD6D33F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:11:53 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:12:13 in (loop for ... being the hash-key of ...), can I specify some sort order, or would I have to sort a list of keys and get the values explicitly? Ie. is there some shorthand? 15:13:01 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.210] has joined #lisp 15:13:20 flip214: no, you need to sort the keys or values if you need them sorted 15:13:21 flip214: yes 15:13:35 linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 15:13:41 flip214: use alexandria:hash-table-keys or alexandria:hash-table-values 15:14:21 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:14:50 H4ns: Wouldn't that be less efficient? 15:14:57 loke: than what? 15:15:06 H4ns: Than grabbing the keys and values together 15:15:07 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@80.63.227.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:15:29 oh wait. I read your "or" as "and" 15:15:30 loke: that's true. 15:15:44 less efficient on space 15:15:53 you'd basically have to convert the hash table to an alist 15:15:57 then sort the alist 15:16:09 which could be lots of consing, depending the number of elements 15:16:10 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 15:16:35 in any case, there is no shorthand and loop is not the answer. 15:16:37 well, double the consing, actually 15:16:37 if you need a sorted associatiative map, a hash table might not be the right thing 15:16:46 associatiatiatiative 15:16:49 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:16:52 heh 15:17:55 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:18:30 and there's no function for recursive tree STRING< compares, I guess... 15:19:02 In my futurelisp[tm], you have make-map where you can pick a algorithm for the mapping. 15:19:42 so if you want a sorted associative map, you could (make-map :type 'red-black-tree) or something 15:19:45 dlowe: actually, futurelisp only needs to have generic functions for the hash functions 15:19:52 I mean the map functions 15:20:40 SBCL (and others) already have this for sequences, but there is none for maps 15:20:56 sounds like a massive performance hit 15:21:16 dlowe: It works well for sequences, which are a lot more sensitive than maps 15:22:21 it works well in sbcl for the special-case concrete sequences, because I didn't want to slow them down at all (so that in my presentation I could answer the question "doesn't this slow everything down" with "well I merged this 9 months ago and no-one noticed") 15:22:35 The sequence functions get dispatched once per call. Hash functions are called quite a lot more. 15:22:37 I am not at all convinced that for actual generic sequences it is an efficient protocol 15:22:49 hmmm, my recursive tree< returns NIL and T ... but after comparing the CARs I don't know whether to continue with the CDRs, so I guess I'll need two return values? I think I'm confused. 15:22:52 With enough type inference magic, it could be made fast 15:23:45 I feel that contorting (and limiting) the API because of some percieved performance issue that may not even be noticeable in a real implementation is not a good idea 15:23:58 flip214: (if (test x y) t (if (test y x) nil (recurse #'test (cdr x) (cdr y)))) 15:23:59 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:24:06 needs some care for null x and y 15:24:24 dlowe: I am suspicious about the sufficient existence of magic 15:24:24 sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 15:24:32 Krystof: me too 15:24:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:24:47 Krystof: well, better to return +1, 0, -1 directly, I guess. 15:24:58 and to translate just before returning to SORT. 15:25:04 loke: common lisp can be used to write fast programs because it was designed with performance in mind. it is rather easy to invent a slow lisp, but it is much harder to invent one that can compete with other compiled languages. 15:25:18 You could make such a thing extensible without resorting to generics, in any case 15:25:44 H4ns: sure, but even with a very flexible generics-based API for maps, you'd still be able to get all the performance you want with the right type declaraions 15:26:00 (make-map-type constructor insert-func remove-func find-func) 15:26:30 throw a "name" parameter in there 15:26:47 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:26:51 loke: only if someone implements the compiler smarts to take advantage of the type declarations 15:27:17 Krystof: of course, but how is that different from any other optimisation that is needed to make Lisp as fast as C? 15:27:24 it doesn't exist yet 15:27:34 Anyway, it's a rather heated discussion here over something that isn't even vaporware. It's like... plasmaware 15:27:52 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 15:27:53 Krystof: of course not. The API doesn't exist yet. But it does exist for sequences, and what do you know? It's fast. 15:28:32 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:28:32 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30:25 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 15:31:29 when you say "it's fast", are you speaking from actual knowledge? 15:31:48 because, you know, I wrote that code and I would not describe it as "fast", at least not from the point of view of using type declarations 15:32:19 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:32:21 in fact I would describe it as "not quite terminally slow" 15:32:30 but very convenient! 15:32:34 (which might, of course, be "fast enough") 15:33:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.66.93] has joined #lisp 15:33:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.66.93] has quit [Changing host] 15:33:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:35:15 stat_vi 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[~rpert@95.168.98.76] has quit [Client Quit] 17:09:56 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:12:21 did CSTRUCT-AND-CLASS disappear from CFFI-Grovel? It's still in the docs, but this old code I have yells at me: Unknown Grovel syntax: CFFI-GROVEL::CSTRUCT-AND-CLASS 17:13:40 hmmm, i got maxima to work in clim-listener, the only weird thing is the input is not shown, tho output is..... 17:13:56 weird, weird, weird...... 17:14:19 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.160.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:11 pre-lisp, infi-lis, post-lisp lol 17:16:12 sellout: I see cstruct-and-class-item in grovel/grovel.lisp 17:16:33 LiamH: Hey, grep  it's magical :D Danke. 17:16:35 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:16:57 sellout: rgrep in emacs is double-magical 17:17:19 sellout: so maybe the docs need updating? 17:20:35 LiamH: Yeah, and it looks like cstruct-and-class-item is deprecated in favor of define-c-struct-wrapper. 17:20:49 This is code I haven't looked at since maybe 2004 or so :) 17:21:27 codeknitty [~AndChat29@120.60.38.115] has joined #lisp 17:21:34 -!- intinig [~user@93-50-99-219.ip152.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:43 sellout: I'm curious because I just restored a line to defcstruct creating a default type class, and this sounds like it allows you to name a class for groveled structures which I didn't think was possible. 17:22:54 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-194-171.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:26:06 cdidd [~cdidd@37-144-103-248.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 17:26:36 -!- asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:27:39 -!- paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has left #lisp 17:27:53 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:29:18 optikalmouse [~user@gw.trapeze.com] has joined #lisp 17:29:24 ,o/ 17:30:16 morphling [~stefan@95.117.65.204] has joined #lisp 17:30:30 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-9-153.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:33 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:32:27 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 17:34:41 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-122-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:35:29 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 17:37:45 -!- srcerer_ is now known as srcerer 17:40:45 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.151.217] has joined #lisp 17:40:50 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.208] has joined #lisp 17:41:11 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 17:41:49 LiamH: Hrmm, cstruct seems to be requiring that I pass a :type argument  this seems to be defeating the point of grovelling :/ 17:42:34 sellout: really? I don't have that problem. 17:44:11 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-194-171.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:44:54 errat|c|2 [~kvirc@c-67-180-62-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:59 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 17:45:00 LiamH: Here's the error I get: http://paste.lisp.org/display/133702 17:45:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:45:26 You can see in CFFI::SLOTS that some have been normalized with a type of NIL, and then it complains. 17:45:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:36 If I define them all explicitly, it works. 17:46:58 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:47:20 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 17:47:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:47:34 I've got the latest QL, and my CFFI systems are being loaded from QL. 17:50:16 -!- optikalmouse [~user@gw.trapeze.com] has left #lisp 17:50:24 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:50:25 sellout: I change my mind, I do declare slots explicitly, I forgot that I had to do that. 17:50:50 LiamH: You mean slot types? 17:50:53 As I recall, the rationale is that you needed access the structure the same way it's defined in C 17:51:00 sellout: everything 17:51:10 Then why is it a keyword? 17:51:15 Oh well. Fixing my code. 17:51:21 (cstruct sf-result "gsl_sf_result" (val "val" :type :double) (err "err" :type :double)) 17:51:34 not sure 17:51:42 send an email to cffi-devel 17:52:04 -!- wibble37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has left #lisp 17:52:06 *LiamH* balances checking account, a far more complex task 17:52:44 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 17:54:15 It would be good to know how to grovel C structures correctly, I just hacked on it until it works and don't know if it's the proper way to do it. 17:55:36 sellout: no, the point of grovelling a struct is finding out the its size and slot offsets, that's all 17:56:46 fe[nl]ix: But if I provide the types of all the slots, then you can discover the size and offsets without grovelling, no? 17:57:18 But mostly, it's confusing because the type is a keyword param, and the docs don't mention that it's required. 17:57:35 yes, but you don't need to define all slots 17:57:42 Ahhh, right. 17:58:13 often structs, especially the ones from libc, contain hidden padding for future extension 17:58:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.66.93] has joined #lisp 17:58:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.66.93] has quit [Changing host] 17:58:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:59:23 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:59:43 -!- codeknitty [~AndChat29@120.60.38.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:02:05 bxxx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 18:03:04 fe[nl]ix: OK, that's a good explanation, better than mine. 18:03:20 sellout: it's nice to be able to grovel only the one or two slots you actually use 18:03:54 but it would be nice to have a way to grovel everything if that's what you want 18:03:59 fe[nl]ix: Yeah, I agree. I forgot that was an option. I thankfully haven't had to deal with C libraries much lately. 18:04:14 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:05:53 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@46.218.71.241] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:06:52 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 18:07:42 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 18:11:13 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:34 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:13:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:14:41 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 18:14:55 -!- cic_ [~connolly@Catnip.AI.SRI.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:14:58 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:15:20 -!- errat|c|2 is now known as orthecreedence 18:18:13 cic_ [~connolly@Catnip.AI.SRI.COM] has joined #lisp 18:19:11 -!- orthecreedence [~kvirc@c-67-180-62-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:19:17 slyrus [~chatzilla@99.24.162.13] has joined #lisp 18:19:52 Is there a wiki engine written on CL and available to download for free? 18:21:42 cnl: http://www.cliki.net/site/search?query=wiki 18:21:57 All links are broken there. 18:22:00 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 18:22:03 -!- dsp_ [dsp@antenora.aculei.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:12 https://github.com/vsedach/cliki2 18:23:36 Uhh. Archimag's peace of code. 18:24:09 -!- ivenkys [~ivenkys@gateway/tor-sasl/ivenkys] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:24:47 just write your own, like everyone else 18:26:30 -!- bitonic [~user@93-40-92-227.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:26:52 I like Occam's principle. 18:27:10 then that means using a non-lisp wiki 18:27:32 Ok, I'll try to write my own. 18:27:41 yrk [~user@pat152.library-public.border1-rt.dartmouth.edu] has joined #lisp 18:27:44 "Elements Of Wiki Essence"-compatible. 18:27:45 -!- yrk [~user@pat152.library-public.border1-rt.dartmouth.edu] has quit [Changing host] 18:27:45 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 18:27:49 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 18:28:15 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:28:50 i hope you wouldn't write a new web-framework too 18:28:51 -!- romanab [~androirc@adsl-76-254-25-65.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30:26 dude i got the maxima-5.28.0 source and guess what it lacks the d-moremsg d-moreflush vars uh 18:31:00 wbooze: and why are you telling this to #lisp? 18:31:15 and someone tried to be clever and give - + etc. maxima names like maxima::plus etc.... 18:31:21 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 18:31:54 ow man sorry 18:32:01 linse [~marioooh@modemcable081.89-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:32:11 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:32:37 LiamH: to grovel everything you need a C parser because C doesn't have introspective capabilities 18:32:43 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:34:05 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-254-65.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:31 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-135-18.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:34:34 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.151.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:35:19 fe[nl]ix: well, a DWARF parser might also mostly work, but now that libclang exists, I don't think such hacks are remotely interesting 18:36:03 pkhuong: you're not guaranteed to have the debugging symbols present 18:36:55 right, hence "mostly work" (including tricks with compiling a dummy program and then groveling its debug info). 18:37:09 same goes for libclang 18:37:29 last time I looked it didn't preserve information about macros 18:37:46 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:46 it's available, but I'm not sure if it's enough to handle stuff like #defined "slots" 18:39:24 oh, right 18:39:41 preprocessor tricks to hide unnamed inner unions 18:39:52 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-npqxxqehhwtvzaza] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:39:55 As a dabbler in Lisp, I've recently been thinking about how I would construct some functions that mimic the functionality of some of the MP's I've done in my Data Structures class in C++, specifically trees. 18:40:15 s/unnamed/anonymous/ :D 18:41:03 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A461.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:41:11 lmj` [~lmj`@c-71-192-51-221.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:14 Obviously, lisp's syntax lends itself to tree structures, but how would you write sorting methods for data of unknown types? Template classes are used for this in C++, but how could I do this in lisp if the data it's supposed to be sorting doesn't have < or > or = defined properly for it? 18:41:28 clhs sort 18:41:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sort_.htm 18:41:31 like that. 18:41:44 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.207.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:42:19 Okay, so I'd have to pass in the proper sorting function. Cool. 18:42:35 Are there ways to define "member functions" in CLOS? 18:42:52 depends on whether you mean sorting a sequence of arbitrary things, which works like that, or sorting some non-sequence, which obviously you must define separately 18:42:54 what is a member function? 18:43:21 jack_rabbit: no. but you should read a text on lisp rather than trying to get an explanation of lisp in this channel. please. thank you 18:43:23 jack_rabbit: not really, CLOS doesn't work like that exactly, but you can get the same effect 18:43:32 H4ns: Fair enough. 18:43:33 jack_rabbit: CLOS is an object system. You can define methods. It's just that it's a multiple dispatch system and methods belong to generic functions, not to classes or prototypes. 18:44:12 minion: tell jack_rabbit about PCL 18:44:12 jack_rabbit: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 18:44:34 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:45:08 :) I went through about half of that book during the summer. It's awesome. Didn't get into any CLOS stuff yet, though. 18:45:54 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:47:03 -!- felideon [~felideon@184.170.255.36] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 18:47:51 One more question and then I'll delve into manuals and such: Do you find CLOS to be an integral part of most lisp programs, is it only applicable in certain cases, or is it just a matter of preference of paradigm? 18:47:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:48:26 fe[nl]ix: I shaved 8 seconds off my test compilation times by changing 5am::process-failures from a macro to a function. This also fixes SBCL running out of space using the default heap size on some platforms. 18:48:27 jack_rabbit: no, like anything in lisp, you use it if it's a useful tool, or don't if it's not 18:48:41 fe[nl]ix: I also noticed the 5am:test API change -- are you sure you want to do that? 18:48:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:49:17 fe[nl]ix: [Cancel] [OK] 18:49:30 lmj`: what change ? 18:49:34 dlowe: OK 18:50:17 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:07 fe[nl]ix: test -> def-test 18:51:15 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-67-180.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:52:05 Did groveling used to auto-export in the old days? 18:52:29 lmj`: yes I'm sure, and 5am:test is still there and won't go away any time soon 18:52:31 sellout: yes 18:53:37 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 18:55:06 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:34 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 18:55:36 ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.69] has joined #lisp 18:57:16 fe[nl]ix: Given the widespread use of fiveam, we can't realistically expect projects to fix their style-warnings any time soon. The problem with a flood of style-warnings flood is that it drowns out warnings that may be important. 18:58:05 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.69] has quit [Client Quit] 18:58:19 qlkzy [~user@host86-135-233-182.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:36 lmj`: not if you use slime 18:59:50 fe[nl]ix: I care about compiling cleanly, which includes anyone not using slime as well as cl-test-grid. 19:00:16 style warnings are just that 19:00:32 not a compilation failure 19:00:55 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-74-49.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:02:26 whitedawg [~suraj@122.179.47.217] has joined #lisp 19:03:46 leonida64 [~alex1964@net-93-145-90-26.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 19:03:46 fe[nl]ix: Well as I said, the problem is that it drowns out potentially important warnings. I can understand such a change when the benefits are worth the hassle, but I don't see any practical benefit from just a syntax change. 19:04:01 -!- leonida64 [~alex1964@net-93-145-90-26.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Client Quit] 19:04:07 At least in this case. 19:04:11 leonida64 [~alex1964@net-93-145-90-26.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 19:04:13 -!- leonida64 [~alex1964@net-93-145-90-26.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Client Quit] 19:04:21 lmj`: what do you mean it drowns out ? 19:06:18 fe[nl]ix: cl-test-grid will start reporting, say, 91 style-warnings for a project. Now we have to separate potential actual problems from the superficial problems. 19:06:24 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:06:35 fe[nl]ix: I take style-warnings seriously. They usually mean bad things. 19:07:09 lmj`: then that's your problem 19:07:34 style warnings are not meant to be serious warnings 19:07:35 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 19:08:13 fe[nl]ix: No, it's the problem of the person trying to figure out what's wrong with project X. It has 100 style-warnings insead of the 1 style-warning which could tell him what's wrong. 19:08:23 -!- linse [~marioooh@modemcable081.89-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 19:08:44 -!- newbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has left #lisp 19:08:50 if it's a style warning, then nothing's profoundly wrong 19:08:55 feel free to ignore them all 19:08:56 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 19:09:20 jack_rabbit sounds like you asked if you can create a sort that calls a generic less than method. if so you can easily do that: http://paste.lisp.org/display/133707 19:09:33 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-9-153.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:09:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:10:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:10:33 fe[nl]ix: API changes manifest as style-warnings. If BAR takes two arguments, and I call (bar 1), then it's a style-warning. 19:10:49 bxxx: Cool. I haven't used types like that yet. Thanks. 19:11:10 The style-warning is indicating a show-stopper there. 19:11:28 welcome 19:11:46 lmj`: that would be a full warning 19:12:56 Joreji [~thomas@134.61.66.102] has joined #lisp 19:13:14 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:13:24 lmj`: then do this around the compilation: (handler-bind ((alexandria:simple-style-warning #'muffle-warning)) (asdf:load-system :foo)) 19:13:54 stassats: I get style-warning, at least for sbcl and ccl. 19:15:35 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:15:36 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16:27 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-207-182.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:04 peterhil- [~user@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 19:17:15 fe[nl]ix: I am not concerned for my own sake. This is about cl-test-grid and other people generally. 19:17:31 fe[nl]ix: I guess I would be behind you if I saw a real benefit, but I don't here. 19:17:34 jack_rabbit also note that methods aren't part of the classes, so you can define them for classes that aren't your own 19:18:06 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-193-87.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:18:07 -!- gigamonkey_ is now known as gigamonkey 19:18:36 lmj`: I do. slime now properly highlights the top-level definition and indents it better 19:18:50 that's IMO a huge benefit 19:18:58 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:19:29 rpert [~rpert@95.168.98.76] has joined #lisp 19:20:05 codeknitty [~AndChat29@120.60.29.55] has joined #lisp 19:20:59 lmj`: then you're describing it wrong 19:21:28 lmj`: full warning means it will get an error at run-time, and mismatched number of arguments certainly will 19:21:37 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:22:30 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:23:04 i am currently using lisp repl in a terminal, and after i make changes to the code i reload the file or entire system. but was told by someone that i am not using full power of lisp this way, without giving more details. can someone elaborate? 19:23:18 although, it allows for redefinition, so, it may not 19:23:29 then it'll get a style-warning, right 19:24:18 -!- codeknitty [~AndChat29@120.60.29.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:24:19 but it most certainly will get an error at run-time, full warning or not, unless you redefine it in time 19:25:51 bxxx: An interesting way to implement methods. 19:25:56 rpert: http://pastebin.com/nxufJWcR .. simple but pretty :) 19:26:06 _simple_ 19:26:54 rpert: use slime or slimv. then you can do incremental code changes, one line at a time, observe the results quickly, look at variables in a stacktrace, etc. 19:26:59 much easier to develop that way. 19:27:39 sbcl signals full WARNINGS for CL functions, since they cannot be redefined, and style-warnings for other 19:28:09 sure.. or build up a script to substitute slime ^^ 19:28:26 flip214: am i not getting something approximately the same by just reloading the file after changing it? i guess ill have to try it 19:28:27 clhs macro-function 19:28:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_macro_.htm 19:28:30 LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has joined #lisp 19:29:09 stassats: I wrote that after I double-checked in slime, which only gives style-warnings for C-c-c. 19:29:38 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 19:30:26 stassats: but right, C-c-k gives a full warning. 19:30:46 -!- whitedawg [~suraj@122.179.47.217] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:31:19 rpert: yes, approximately. but just sending one function via swank is much faster. you can just write a simple test-expression and look whether your latest code gives sane results, then start the next function. 19:31:36 clhs documentation 19:31:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_docume.htm 19:31:55 tcr1 [~tcr@196.214.183.68] has joined #lisp 19:32:00 I'm using slimv with vim, and I've bound F2 and F3 to store a test-expression, and to eval the current DEFUN and the test expression. 19:32:19 flip214: ah, sending individual functions to lisp sounds nice 19:32:31 so it's 1) write a test line and press F2 2) write a function, press F3 to test it, change, press F3 to test it, etc. 19:33:33 that's a pretty nice combination (: 19:33:52 sounds cool. what unit test library do you use? 19:34:10 fe[nl]ix: I haven't seen an indentation problem with 5am:test; the benefit of changing this widespread API still isn't clear to me. 19:35:35 fms [~fms@38.111.144.18] has joined #lisp 19:35:53 what is the relation between swank and slime? 19:36:28 swank is a server running in lisp process. slime is a client running in emacs 19:36:49 slimv is a client running in vim 19:37:06 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:34 rpert: well, TBH I've just got some "#+nil (some-test-form ...) #+nil (some-other-test)", or "(print (list (test-1) (test-2)))" in my sources, and use that with F2/F3. Not many automated tests (yet), just playing around. 19:37:38 Forty-3 [~seana11@108.45.162.198] has joined #lisp 19:38:19 flip214: sources? 19:38:24 now, on my old pet project, I was up to 91-94% test coverage (depending on whether you count error-catching lines, too) 19:38:30 pnpuff: what sources? 19:38:44 ah, my .vimrc? 19:38:53 ok .. now is clear :) 19:40:28 pnpuff: http://paste.lisp.org/display/133711 19:41:18 an old asdf version? 19:43:27 boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:21 pnpuff: beg your pardon? 19:45:32 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 19:49:27 -!- peterhil- [~user@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:53:10 lmj`: if it's in the same compilation unit 19:53:41 lmj`: C-c C-c uses compile-file in the same way as C-c C-k, but forms end up being in separate compilation units 19:53:43 pegu` [~user@c242C76D9.static.as2116.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:08 so, if it's defined in another library, it'll indeed give a style-warning 20:02:09 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:03:07 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 20:04:49 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-74-49.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.] 20:05:11 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:05:29 Does anyone in here use CLFSWM on a regular basis? 20:06:15 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 20:06:32 stassats: right, the context being that style-warnings may pinpoint show-stopper problems like API changes. 20:08:38 Isn't there a function that does (car (last LIST))? 20:09:10 do you have trouble with (car (last .)) 20:09:11 ? 20:10:10 stassats: Just wondering whether there's something shorter. Seems common enough for alexandria. 20:10:31 i don't imagine anything being shorter 20:10:43 flip214: alexandria:lastcar. 20:10:57 Not that it saves much (any) typing. 20:11:03 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 20:11:32 i'd advise not to use it 20:11:35 pkhuong: thanks. argh, should've tried fuzzy autocomplete before asking. 20:11:40 stassats: why? 20:12:01 because it's not necessary, except for higher order functions 20:12:13 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99.24.162.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:13:04 stassats: first, second, third, defclass, etc. are not "necessary", too ... but sometimes nice to have. 20:13:09 and it even can't do (car (last list 2)) 20:13:42 flip214: but they are in the standard 20:14:03 lastcar isn't, it adds an unnecessary layer of indirection for understanding code 20:14:38 stassats: so we should _only_ use what's in the standard? 20:14:39 next thing you'll want alexandria:abs-minus for doing (- (abs x)) 20:15:16 flip214: if it doesn't make any difference, certainly 20:15:16 Since (cadr x) == (car (cdr x)), I would have expected (car (last x)) == (carlast x) 20:16:00 I think someone counted the frequency of characters in the "standard" quicklisp libraries ... it would be interesting to look at calls 20:16:10 senj [~senj@70.74.172.70] has joined #lisp 20:16:20 lmj`: I think that "lastcar" is good enough - and then there's describe etc. 20:16:55 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 20:16:59 Blkt [~user@62.10.10.99] has joined #lisp 20:17:08 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:17:55 -!- segv_ [~mb@dslb-094-223-012-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv_] 20:18:01 good evening everyone 20:18:02 and i also expect alexandria:lastcar to be slower 20:19:26 -!- _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu moved back to savannah ~] 20:20:54 and it is, on CCL 20:21:03 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 20:21:45 #N 20:21:49 sorry 20:24:13 clhs defstruct 20:24:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defstr.htm 20:24:31 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@82.155.60.57] has joined #lisp 20:24:36 -!- chebastian [~chebastia@c-d875e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 20:24:42 can the slime inspector show identities of CONS cells? 20:24:47 via some special, perhaps? 20:24:53 chebastian [~chebastia@c-d875e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:25:21 ah, it does, if the CONS is the top-most element 20:28:58 -!- rpert [~rpert@95.168.98.76] has quit [Quit: quit] 20:31:06 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 20:32:49 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 20:32:57 -!- sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:36:03 i got it http://paste.lisp.org/display/133714 20:36:56 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:37:11 what the hell is that? 20:37:41 accumulate! 20:37:45 horrifying 20:37:50 lol 20:37:58 haven't you heard about REDUCE? 20:38:12 or at least about LOOP 20:38:22 well, i just glanced over it, and saw something alike there 20:38:36 it was distuinguishing lisp or other input too 20:38:45 all the (if (null foo) things make me cringe 20:39:10 -!- cthuluh [jca@chomsky.autogeree.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:39:15 try it without then...... 20:39:39 wbooze: i'd swap the if and the else clause and leave out the (null ..) 20:39:41 i got my lisp barfing at me when the init was 0 a number not a list 20:39:43 but it may be just me 20:39:53 no, lisp does not barf. 20:40:04 well, i barf when i look at that code 20:40:05 you failed to interpret the error message correctly. 20:40:10 so it was not working for both cases 20:40:13 stassats: rightfully so 20:40:18 wbooze: right 20:40:34 wbooze: but who am i to take away your joy! 20:40:36 and the result was always backwards.... 20:40:39 even if for loop-phobic or reduce-phobic people, it can be written in a better way 20:40:56 nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@63.251.54.158] has joined #lisp 20:41:12 how ? 20:41:22 i'd be interested, cause i try to learn 20:41:33 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c368e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:41:35 seeing many ways is good 20:41:36 wbooze: swap the else and then clauses, drop the null 20:41:47 how about removing code duplication, for one thing 20:41:55 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 20:42:59 how do you mean ? show code ! 20:43:07 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 20:43:11 "fix my program" 20:43:21 you have two identical bodies and two different recursion paths 20:43:37 i got the iter there cause i needed to change the argument order temporarily 20:43:54 the argument order is the same! 20:43:56 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:44:05 no 20:44:19 op seq init and op init seq are different to me 20:44:30 oh good god 20:44:36 m| 20:45:27 eheh 20:45:55 just use reduce 20:46:04 to fix it, press Backspace and don't release it 20:46:10 then write it anew 20:46:39 :-( poor guy! 20:46:52 lol 20:48:06 -!- wingy [~wingy@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has left #lisp 20:49:31 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:31 20:49:31 -!- names: ccl-logbot cyphase nkkarthik chebastian jcazevedo Slivka Blkt senj spiderweb mathrick_ pnq pegu` Nisstyre boyscared Forty-3 fms tcr1 ltbarcly1 LiamH dstatyvka gigamonkey Joreji jtza8 qlkzy Vivitron pnpuff lmj` jack_rabbit Bike yrk ezakimak cic_ agumonkey clariprincess bxxx attila_lendvai PuercoPop milanj gffa BlankVerse Demosthenex morphling cdidd Mon_Ouie stat_vi smazga kmels Natch chr lduros findiggle brandonz wbooze Houl lemoinem qptain_Nemo 20:49:31 -!- names: bobbysmith007 tensorpudding _veer xpoqz scottj 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rtoym naryl mr_vile cryptic acieroid antoszka trigen arbscht ace4016 Khisanth _tca eli Posterdati Krystof drewc jrockway barik macrobat xristos CrazyEddy cmm Guest50944 Nshag shifty`` ZombieChicken ered antifuchs madnificent pjb-v vhost- gemelen ecraven stokachu axion rvirding guyal PuffTheMagic NimeshNeema schoppenhauer froggey phrixos_ theBlackDragon 20:49:31 -!- names: teiresias fmu sshirokov Tristam clog bps gensym TristamWrk derrida samebchase nicdev minion phadthai foom AntiSpamMeta kleppari joshe gf3 deego dim sbryant aoh tdmackey basho varjagg jsnell renard_ cnl eMBee setheus_ postfuturist ``Erik ineiros quasisane tessier herbieB yeltzooo redline6561 jeekl ivan strobegen yan_ vsync yroeht housel phrixos Yamazaki-kun luis Odin- fasta felipe cYmen aerique sepisult1um drdo Patzy gkeith_lt ramus flip214 rotty 20:49:31 -!- names: nitro_idiot_ tychoish gabot galdor Mandus H4ns freiksenet konaya Viaken Subfusc robonyankitty rfgpfeiffer slava_ Borbus adeht sigjuice scode reactormonk nuba tkd johs cmbntr_ daimrod tvaalen_ astopholos_ clop pareidolia ft dmbaturin asedeno_work PECCU veemon sytse ski kirin` mstevens elliottcable smithzv dan64 hohum_ nightfly_ egn cpt_nemo df_ rabite jasom YokYok brendyn __class__ terjesb turbolent frodef guaqua ans z0d spacefrogg^ sweet_kid mtd literal 20:49:31 -!- names: dRbiG lide dlowe __main__ scharan hpd |3b| Obfuscate rking cataska koisoke Fade Buglouse djinni` The_third_man _schulte_ pok dfox SeanTAllen oconnore les DrForr xaxisx Jabberwockey jayne qsun finnrobi 20:52:27 wbooze: reduce also handles corner cases like (reduce (lambda () :foo) nil) => :foo, which might initially be counter-intuitive but ultimately make sense. 20:53:09 hmmm, i'll have deeper look at reduce.... 20:54:32 but corner cases depends on boundary conditions 20:55:29 right, and both accumulate and reduce take count on them.....afaik 20:55:50 i didn't see just one monolithic one which did it all in once..... 20:59:08 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit 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[Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:39 wbooze: accumulate doesn't handle the case I gave. That's really a function with no arguments. 21:39:04 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 21:39:33 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 21:40:35 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:59 lucky__ [~lucky@cri75-4-78-192-205-120.fbxo.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:00 Hi 21:42:10 what is the difference between defmethod and defun ? 21:42:51 Let's imagine that I created the class agent, I should use defmethod necessarly ? 21:43:12 no 21:43:17 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-230-195.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:43:18 no, you can use defun if you don't need/want dispatch. 21:43:18 and what is "agent"? 21:43:39 the name of a class :D 21:44:17 yes but what defmethod bring ? 21:44:26 compare to defun 21:44:29 it adds methods to a generic function 21:44:53 which can then dispatch between different methods based on their class, or EQLness 21:45:06 generic functions can have different behavior based on the sorts of arguments they receive. 21:45:15 dispatch arguments, based on arguments class, that is 21:46:03 easy-iPad [~easyipad@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 21:46:07 lucky__: check out http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/object-reorientation-generic-functions.html for more information. Read the entire book in fact. 21:46:16 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:04 thanks 21:47:26 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:43 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:48:53 -!- yena_ [~yena@cpe-72-177-30-155.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:33 yena [~yena@72.177.30.155] has joined #lisp 21:49:35 LiamH [~none@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 21:52:41 -!- phao [phao@177.160.115.26] has quit [Quit: Not Here] 21:55:41 -!- LiamH [~none@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:55:47 -!- easy-iPad [~easyipad@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Outta here?] 21:57:25 -!- morphling [~stefan@95.117.65.204] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:58:41 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 21:59:24 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:00:30 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 22:00:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:01:09 danlentz [~danlentz@71.58.50.195] has joined #lisp 22:01:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:04:07 lakatosi [557a1e0c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.122.30.12] has joined #lisp 22:05:43 Is there a way to read a keypress directly from lisp, something similar to (read-char), but which doesn't require to user to press enter for the input to be registered? 22:06:34 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:08:12 no portable way 22:09:39 lakatosi: http://paste.lisp.org/display/132488 22:12:27 -!- theplanet^2 [~eilyx@gateway/tor-sasl/eilyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:13:19 LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has joined #lisp 22:13:24 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@71.58.50.195] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:13:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:16:15 elixey [~eilyx@gateway/tor-sasl/eilyx] has joined #lisp 22:20:02 -!- psykotron [~user@2607:f298:2:120::69c:4502] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:58 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:21:00 -!- lakatosi [557a1e0c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.122.30.12] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:21:09 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 22:26:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:13 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:34:06 robot-beethoven [~user@24.118.142.0] has joined #lisp 22:34:34 confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:41 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:37:41 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:38:53 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 22:39:20 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:58 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:07 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:58 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:10 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 22:51:18 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:21 -!- kmels [~kmels@p5B13FF43.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:52:45 kmels [~kmels@91.19.255.67] has joined #lisp 22:54:38 Anyone wish that file-systems were garbage collected via a more modern system than reference counting? 22:55:08 are they garbage collected? 22:55:27 i mean, i see no garbage collection when i use it, why should i care? 22:55:34 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:56:26 stassats: hardlinks are reference counts. The resources are immediately freed upon hitting a count of 0. rm -rf takes a long time 22:57:34 what would change with a "more modern system"? 22:57:54 random hiccups? 22:58:01 unlink the parent directory which is an O(1) operation, resources are freed later with random hiccups 22:58:13 stassats: unlink(2) is synchronous and sometimes that sucks 22:59:22 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 22:59:31 i'd opt in just for faster resource deallocation 22:59:52 rm -rf is CPU bound on my NAS running ext4. 23:01:27 well, time to rewrite it in lisp, i reckon 23:02:34 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 23:02:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:04:22 i don't like file systems, instead of files and dirs we should have objects and tags 23:04:36 -!- lucky__ [~lucky@cri75-4-78-192-205-120.fbxo.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:04:39 and store them in the cloud? 23:05:05 i don't trust any cloud 23:05:25 you are a luddite, aren't you? 23:05:28 stassats: sure. the unicornblood will keep the latency to a minimum. 23:06:20 urandom__: not really on topic, but you may like owncloud 23:07:46 -!- lmj` [~lmj`@c-71-192-51-221.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:08:01 i am not really into clouds, i was more thinking about how to organice the data on my pc better 23:08:22 People use locked down phones and cloud store everything nowadays, the modern random hiccups are already here. 23:08:34 -!- qlkzy [~user@host86-135-233-182.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:08:50 shwouchk [~shwouchk@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has joined #lisp 23:09:33 i don't know how we got into clouds but i need my data even when i don't have an internet connection 23:10:27 Just buy the expensive version with 64GB of storage. 23:10:33 Should be enough for anyone. 23:10:36 stassats: I've a snippet for slime-tips http://paste.lisp.org/display/133717 23:10:49 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:11:11 ,ql to quickload a system with quicklisp 23:12:04 well, i don't use quicklisp, so i can't really test it 23:12:21 so, if i post it, i'll blame you on all the havoc 23:12:37 is putting it into ~/.swank.lisp enough? 23:12:48 *stassats* is not sure that defslime-repl-shortcut is available at that time 23:12:52 nop it's emacs-lisp, you've to put it in your .emacs 23:13:13 right, that's better 23:13:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:27 is (ql:list-local-systems) listing only the installed systems? 23:14:28 stassats: i put it in .emacs and it works here. i have ido-mode installed, that might be a prerequisite. is it daimrod? 23:14:57 yup ido is required. 23:15:05 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:15:18 stassats: no it lists local systems that is systems in ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ 23:17:55 though you could replace ido-completing-read by completing-read 23:19:18 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:19:28 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.218] has joined #lisp 23:20:00 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:20:00 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:20:00 -!- prip_ [~foo@host84-125-dynamic.37-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:20:00 -!- ludston [~ludston@CPE-58-167-80-25.lnse5.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:20:00 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:20:00 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@host81-156-69-168.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:20:00 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:20:01 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:20:01 -!- fihi09` [~user@pool-96-224-33-198.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:20:01 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:20:01 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:20:01 -!- Guest50944 [~asciilife@pool-71-191-43-115.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:20:01 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:20:01 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:20:01 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:20:01 -!- postfuturist [~postfutur@stevegoss.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:20:01 -!- robonyankitty [~mechanyan@li125-243.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:20:30 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 23:21:17 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:21:27 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 23:22:17 daimrod: wouldn't it be more useful if it listed all the available systems? 23:22:43 that's what it does. 23:22:50 both local and available systems 23:22:58 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-200-205.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:23:55 stassats: you can register extra folders which quicklisp searches for extra systems 23:24:43 -!- kmels [~kmels@91.19.255.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:25:39 does the existing ,l list systems installed with quicklisp? 23:26:18 no 23:26:26 i see 23:26:42 ludston [~ludston@CPE-58-167-80-25.lnse5.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:27:21 well, i guess to make it proper we need to add a slime-quicklisp contrib, which replaces ,l 23:27:59 qlkzy [~user@86.135.233.182] has joined #lisp 23:28:15 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:29:05 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:29:19 LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has joined #lisp 23:29:19 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 23:29:19 prip_ [~foo@host84-125-dynamic.37-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:29:19 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:19 klltkr [~klltkr@host81-156-69-168.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:19 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 23:29:19 fihi09` [~user@pool-96-224-33-198.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:19 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:19 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 23:29:19 Guest50944 [~asciilife@pool-71-191-43-115.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:19 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:19 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:29:19 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 23:29:19 postfuturist [~postfutur@stevegoss.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:19 robonyankitty [~mechanyan@li125-243.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:30:37 and somebody else needs to do it, because i'm not really interested 23:31:31 I'll do it once I've figured how ,l works because at the moment it lists systems that aren't listed with ,ql. 23:32:12 it walks through the central registry and picks up the systems 23:32:24 in addition to using asdf::*defined-systems* 23:32:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:33:03 -!- qlkzy [~user@86.135.233.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:33:26 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@75.82.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:33:29 and btw, nunion is a weird word 23:33:38 *stassats`* images nuns in a union 23:34:52 nunion? 23:35:03 clhs nunion 23:35:04 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_unionc.htm 23:36:57 stassats`: why doesn't asdf do the walking? 23:37:10 you tell me! 23:37:16 SexKitten [~Oddity@d75-156-92-175.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:20 or maybe it does 23:37:30 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:37:59 -!- SexKitten [~Oddity@d75-156-92-175.bchsia.telus.net] has left #lisp 23:38:03 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 23:38:24 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 23:39:42 keep also in mind that it still works with asdf1 23:40:10 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 23:41:13 (supposedly, nobody tests it there anymore) 23:41:28 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 23:46:01 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 23:46:59 I believe quicklisp does its own walking because it has a blacklist of .asd files not to use which are embedded copies of other libs. (instead of stripping them out before sending them to you, it just ignores those asd files) 23:47:12 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 23:52:06 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:52:12 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-48-88.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 23:57:05 stassats`: Then you can wait before posting this tip :), I'll look for complete solution, but not now, I need some sleep. 23:57:33 night daimrod, script is awesome 23:57:37 Thanks for your advices.