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seconds] 02:07:55 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-148-35.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 02:15:00 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:11 surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 02:16:37 -!- booguie [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16:54 springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has joined #lisp 02:18:38 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:19:31 Kvaks_ [~kvaks@131.128.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 02:19:52 aqm [~adam@adsl-75-23-46-27.dsl.lgvwtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:56 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:22:11 surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 02:22:37 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@75.161.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:23:32 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-214-34.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:25:59 zerowaitstate [~dwaites@ppp-70-254-44-53.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:49 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 02:32:17 redscare [~Adium@18.205.1.172] has joined #lisp 02:35:38 Icon__ [~mz@ppp95-165-48-148.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 02:35:43 I implemented a small algorithm to get normally distributed random values, and it works pretty well (still a few kinks), but I've run into a strange problem. When I give it the same random number generator, with the same seed, that I KNOW produces the same value on multiple consecutive runs, it produces different outputs. Does anyone have an idea why? The code is here: http://paste.lisp.org/+2V3C 02:35:53 fihi09` [~user@pool-96-224-33-198.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:52 ed 02:36:52 ed 02:36:53 d 02:38:53 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:39:32 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-35-150.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:39:57 -!- newbie|3 [~mz@ppp95-165-34-12.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:43:52 hiro3 [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:47:51 kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has joined #lisp 02:48:03 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:443a:46b8:9a18:b10a] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:57:36 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 02:58:48 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 03:01:35 redscare: you still a call to cl:random in there. 03:01:41 *have a call 03:04:06 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-sdwdoniyogheozco] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:04:23 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-zfczqgbidvxketwt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:04:30 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-qyeqizzyywmzavvx] has joined #lisp 03:06:12 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-cuonvqvpoevybxfv] has joined #lisp 03:11:18 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:14:22 -!- hiro3 is now known as hiro3w 03:14:40 -!- hiro3w [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:15:08 64MAB7YA7 [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:15:12 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 03:18:11 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:49 -!- ioa [~ioa@dynamic2-251-034.usc.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:18:55 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Quit: am0c] 03:19:07 -!- oubiwann [~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:19:09 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 03:19:20 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-5-162.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 03:20:41 pkhuong: thanks a lot. i've been staring at the code for way too logn 03:20:42 long* 03:22:50 oubiwann [~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:04 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-5-162.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Client Quit] 03:26:39 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.255.80] has joined #lisp 03:27:06 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-5-162.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 03:28:03 redscare: you don't seem to worry about the number of calls to the PRNG or making the function monotone. You probably might as well use Box-Muller. 03:30:18 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 03:31:06 pkhuong: in some recent literature I read that reusing bits from the random numbers is bad 03:31:19 and that to get a truly accurate distribution you should regenerate all of them 03:31:34 on average the PRNG is only called twice... 03:31:49 *usually 03:33:05 Reusing bits is obviously bad. Approximating the inverse CDF, not necessarily. That's all orthogonal to using the Box-Muller transform though. 03:33:09 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:35:15 summon [~summon@94.180.97.59] has joined #lisp 03:35:52 pkhuong: thing is i used to write lots of simulations in C, now i'm trying to write more lisp, box-muller would be too slow? 03:36:38 -!- Blkt [~user@62.10.10.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:47 -!- kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:39:18 there was some code on codecrap.com the other day... srand(rand()); 03:39:30 their heart was in the right place... 03:39:43 why would it be slower than in C? 03:41:37 -!- [1]JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC] 03:41:51 [1]JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 03:42:23 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.143.186.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:42:24 -!- [1]JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:43:40 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 03:44:31 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:45:09 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 03:46:41 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:51:09 pkhuong: no box-muller as an algorithm is slower than the ziggurat algorithm, which i'm trying to implement 03:51:26 it's also a first attempt at a serious program in lisp so it's a learning experience 03:51:32 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:33 if you could offer advice i'd be very greatful 03:52:32 ah, you're doing this for speed. 03:53:29 pkhuong: especially on why it seems to be just a little bit off :) i'm testing it by estimating CDF's and it's very close but more consistently off on the order ~.001 than other implementations 03:54:37 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:54:49 -!- aqm [~adam@adsl-75-23-46-27.dsl.lgvwtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: aqm] 03:56:22 I like loop for x below/above to avoid off by ones by always working with half-open intervals. 03:57:34 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:51 redscare: are you supposed to be generating U[0, 1] or U[0, 1)? 03:58:29 pkhuong: i /think/ U[0,1], but would that even matter? 03:59:11 it might explain some of the discrepancies. 03:59:18 pkhuong: just checked the paper, U[0,1], inclusive 03:59:58 pkhuong: which is what i'm doing. i hope :) 04:00:26 what's your generator? 04:01:52 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 04:02:15 -!- benny [~user@i577A1350.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:02:36 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:20 -!- summon [~summon@94.180.97.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:04:21 like random number generator? 04:04:25 i've tried multiple 04:04:27 yes. 04:04:34 the one built into sbcl 04:04:38 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-5-162.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 04:04:39 How do you call it? 04:05:06 I pass it as a function to sample-normal, something like (unseeded) (lambda () (random #.(expt 2 32)) 04:06:30 good, you guys were discussing something like (random (1- (expt 2 32)) earlier. BTW, you can rely on SBCL to do constant propagation on that sort of trivial form. 04:08:23 kaid [~kaid@123.116.48.32] has joined #lisp 04:09:45 redscare: have you compared the constants tables, and tried a run with the same short sequence of uniforms in a reference impementation? 04:11:54 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:12:22 pkhuong: in the process of doing the first, what do you mean by the second? 04:12:28 sequence of uniforms? 04:13:30 (let ((i 0)) (lambda () (prog1 (aref *numbers* i) (incf i)))) 04:13:54 That way you can easily pass the same sequence to another implementation, regardless of the language. 04:15:14 bsamograd [~user@108.181.149.36] has joined #lisp 04:16:43 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:16:59 -!- kaid [~kaid@123.116.48.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:18:32 pkhuong: ah i see 04:18:48 well my numbers actually differ from the gsl implementation but that's because they don't implement it the "right" way 04:19:04 if they come closer... ;) 04:19:26 lhk [~lhk@125.71.228.148] has joined #lisp 04:19:29 redscare: I can help you accelerate the non-working code. 04:19:43 oh i have a newer, *slightly* cleaner version 04:19:59 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:20:29 But I'm not sure where the discrepancies could originate. With CL, one common pitfall is the implicit conversion of integers to single floats, but I think you're safe on that front. 04:21:01 http://paste.lisp.org/+2V3D 04:21:42 if you wanted to you could even try it. it's pretty quick (~1 second for 1.5e7 runs on my machine), but the averages are just that little bit off 04:22:25 -!- lhk [~lhk@125.71.228.148] has quit [Quit: #cloobs] 04:23:09 yeah. I see what you mean. 04:24:01 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.255.80] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 04:24:50 pkhuong: i think i found a problem. give me a sec... 04:24:53 redscare: is the (if (zerop rect) ...) form ever supposed to return negative values? 04:26:11 pkhuong: it might 04:26:14 but it's still a 50-50 04:26:17 i hope :) 04:26:38 because if it returns without calling itself it's obviously 50-50 04:26:41 say it calls itself 04:27:03 the possibilities are 1 1, 1,1, 1,1, 1,-1 04:27:09 still 50/50 negative 04:27:37 sorry i meant (-1,-1), (1,1), (-1,1), (1,-1) 04:29:54 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-72-180.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 04:32:24 well, wrapping that in an ABS yields a much closer average, and it doesn't seem to be consistently -ve either. 04:33:27 hmmthat shouldn't be rightbut i guess it is :) 04:34:43 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-72-180.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:36:18 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:37:18 pkhuong: sorry what did you wrap in the abs? i'm not getting any significant change in averages 04:37:38 (if (zerop rect) ...) 04:37:44 segv_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-128-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:55 -!- segv_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-128-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:39:57 segv_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-128-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:58 ok i should probably share my test code: (/ (loop repeat 1.5e7 for n = (sample-normal rng) when (<= n .03d0) sum 1) 1.5e7) 04:40:12 the exact answer is 0.511966 04:41:24 i get something ~0.5122 usually 04:41:33 sometimes as low as 0.51199 04:41:38 haven't gotten lower though :( 04:43:44 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:45:37 -!- trebor_dki [~user@kvpn.lbf.fraunhofer.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:47:26 -!- kindergip [~IceChat9@24-207-14-200.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:48:03 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:49:03 pkhuong: i might be handling the tail wrong... 04:49:27 pkhuong: i am 04:49:51 ah (: 04:49:56 -!- segv_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-128-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv_] 04:53:40 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:55:20 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:56:15 pkhuong: cleaning it up, should be ~50% faster after this too 04:56:23 pkhuong: thanks for all the help so far btw 04:57:56 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-24-162-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:56 segv_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-128-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:08 jsn [~user@c-76-126-149-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:39 -!- jsn [~user@c-76-126-149-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:07:08 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:07:55 redscare: annotated with my micro-optimised version. 05:11:50 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:14:06 redscare: n.b., *now* it looks like less work than box muller. 05:15:26 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-24-162-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:15:31 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:20:42 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 05:21:08 Summon [~Summon@gw2.sibers.com] has joined #lisp 05:26:50 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@67-5-194-70.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 05:28:09 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:28:14 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:33:17 Thra11_ [~thrall@75.82.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:28 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 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06:11:55 -!- cryptic_ is now known as cryptic 06:16:20 -!- zerowaitstate [~dwaites@ppp-70-254-44-53.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:19:06 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 06:20:15 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.65.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:24:14 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-24-162-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:26:14 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-24-162-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:28:21 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:30:30 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-40.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:30:44 jenia [~jenia@modemcable028.115-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 06:30:59 hi everyone. i want to do a program that performs computer vision 06:31:12 and i want to use lisp 06:31:42 but i cant find any community that does something similar with lisp 06:32:04 is it common to use lisp to do computer vision programs? 06:32:27 I think computer vision is enough of a research area that they haven't gotten bogged down in language wars yet? 06:32:32 People seem to mostly use matlab. 06:32:34 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 06:33:58 jenia: I did some image processing/computer vision-type stuff for my thesis in lisp 06:34:26 what library did you use? 06:34:36 i know about opencv 06:34:58 but the bindings for lisp, that i found, seem to be a kind of personal project 06:35:13 not much discussion... 06:35:17 i wrote my own libraries, for the most part 06:35:46 some of that is now in opticl, some of it in clem, some of it unreleased 06:36:22 do you think there'll be an advantage using lisp for computer vision as opposed to python and opencv 06:36:49 I chose lisp over python as I like lisp better, but ymmv 06:37:01 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 06:37:49 okay, thanks 06:40:22 -!- lolprog 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has joined #lisp 08:00:52 hehe, there is a #lisp chan with this many fake nicks? 08:00:54 wow 08:02:12 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DC11322.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:48 what's the difference between a fake and a real nick? 08:03:54 good point 08:04:18 lisp isn't number 1 08:05:31 dbushenko [5d7d53e1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.83.225] has joined #lisp 08:05:42 no lisp is a programming language. 1 is a mathematical construction. 08:05:52 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 08:07:21 maybe he meant #1isp? 08:12:32 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 08:14:05 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 08:16:34 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 08:16:43 Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language 08:18:11 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d13a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:18:42 oh, #1 isn't number 1 either 08:19:01 #1= is reader macro 08:20:54 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 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[~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:32:11 jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has joined #lisp 10:37:37 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:38:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 10:44:51 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 10:44:57 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:46:48 -!- redscare [~Adium@18.205.1.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:59:43 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:00:27 oubiwann [~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:43 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 11:10:35 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:17:54 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-214-34.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 11:19:07 -!- oubiwann [~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:22:02 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:24:29 hba [~hba@189.130.48.164] has joined #lisp 11:26:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:28:38 ml__ [~ml@p3E9E5B24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:05 it's surprising SORT can reuse the input conses, but COERCE? 11:29:13 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:30:14 ml__: in general, library functions do not mutate their arguments. SORT is an exception, for efficiency considerations. 11:30:42 *madnificent* has been bitten by #'sort's destructive behavior 11:31:39 ok, i was too lazy to write a loop so i wrote 11:31:52 (coerce (mapcar #'somefunc (coerce vec 'list)) 'simple-vector) 11:32:06 which i can't believe modifies the vec 11:32:54 oh, i'm all wrong xD 11:33:02 ignore my last lines 11:33:10 not sure what you mean, but (map 'vector #'identity #(1 2 3)) 11:33:41 COERCE never modified it's input, i'm just desperated... 11:37:20 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:44:43 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:45:33 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-181-141.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:46:06 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.210.84] has joined #lisp 11:56:14 Greetings! 12:00:26 sodel [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:53 I've just finished my implementation of perceptron and it consumes about 1.2 Gb of RAM for studying on 16x16 picture of 1 and 0. Is it OK or I did something wrong? 12:05:02 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.223] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:38 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:06:34 Here is source and pictures if you want to try it by yourself: http://yadi.sk/d/PXEwkLlc0dY17 12:07:02 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.223] has joined #lisp 12:07:58 It my first neural network on lisp, sorry for dumb question. 12:08:42 -!- sodel [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 12:09:33 what makes you think that this is a lisp specific problem? maybe you can narrow your question down a bit so that it becomes possible to help you without unpacking a zip and running your program. 12:09:53 for starters, did you use the profiler to find out where your memory is going? 12:10:09 I've just wanted to write neural network on lisp. 12:10:31 that much i gathered 12:12:53 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 12:13:03 I didn't use the profiler. I don't know any good profilers that I can use. But I think I don't need this in this case 'cause I know where the problem could be  it's recursive functions. 12:13:31 slime has profiling support built in 12:13:37 I pass network to functions as argument. 12:13:56 H4ns: Really? How to use it? 12:14:01 optimizing by guessing is not a good strategty 12:14:18 hitecnologys: http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Profiling.html 12:14:29 Thanks a lot. 12:14:48 hitecnologys: statistic profilers are available for sbcl and ccl, too. 12:14:51 am0c [~am0c@125.129.194.117] has joined #lisp 12:15:24 -!- am0c [~am0c@125.129.194.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:15:40 H4ns: you mean sb-sprof? 12:15:48 hitecnologys: right. 12:16:23 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:38 zulu_inuoe_ [~zulu_inuo@184.89.111.53] has joined #lisp 12:18:42 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:06 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:20:19 Have anyone here ever tried to write neural networks on lisp? 12:20:31 If there any way in cffi to define a c struct that contains a pointer to it's own type? i.e. struct LinkedList { struct LinkedList* next; }; ? 12:20:58 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:21:18 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:21 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:23:58 -!- ml__ [~ml@p3E9E5B24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:24:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:24:49 ml__ [~ml@p3E9E5B24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:47 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:25:47 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:26:10 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 12:29:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:30:22 Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.79.18.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 12:31:50 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-121-40.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:33:01 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 12:36:21 uh, is anybody using vectors as hash keys? 12:36:45 ml__: 'equalp. 12:37:25 ah 12:37:26 thanks 12:37:27 ml__: I used arrays. 12:38:25 ml__: both sbcl and ccl support (make-hash-table :test #'usb8-vector=) 12:38:53 (assuming you want vector comparision but you don't want #\c and #\C to be the same 12:39:09 (though you'll have to write usb8-vectior yourself) 12:39:52 oh, i could need a 16 bit vector as key 12:40:03 sure a vector of 16 bit elements... 12:40:29 My sbcl says that usb8-vector= is undefined. 12:41:49 ml__: is it just 16 bits? 12:41:58 or is it a vector of 16 bit ints 12:42:36 it's a vector of integers that fit fine in 16 bits 12:42:40 hitecnologys: you'll have to write that yourself 12:43:35 hm, then you probably won't gain much with a custom hash test over cl:equalp 12:44:16 i'll see how to optimize it, first i need to get it working and then understand it more 12:46:48 am0c [~am0c@125.129.194.117] has joined #lisp 12:48:41 -!- ml__ [~ml@p3E9E5B24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:53:46 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-156-202.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:00:08 ml__ [~ml@p3E9E2E86.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:28 oubiwann [~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 13:05:22 erann [~erann@142.Red-83-33-80.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:53 kaid [~kaid@222.129.233.165] has joined #lisp 13:06:59 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:10:40 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 13:11:19 hitecnologys: check cl-fann 13:11:23 hitecnologys: we used it, it runs 13:12:11 -!- kaid [~kaid@222.129.233.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:20 kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has joined #lisp 13:12:30 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:08 -!- oubiwann [~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:20:59 madnificent: Hm, okay. I thought that there's no wrappers for FANN on CL. 13:25:38 hitecnologys: it could've been :) you need to make sure that you install the correct version of th FANN library on your system. i can't quite remember which one that was though. so experiment with it if it doesn't seem to work immediately. 13:26:18 madnificent: OK. Thx. 13:26:22 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 13:26:39 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 13:26:42 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 13:27:14 -!- kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:27:19 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:30 `fogus [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 13:30:28 ludston [~ludston@CPE-58-167-80-25.lnse5.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:32:49 -!- asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:34:21 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35:08 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:38:35 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:39:08 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-f7b2e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:40:07 -!- Daisy is now known as Ribon 13:40:10 kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has joined #lisp 13:40:50 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:41:25 SHODAN [~shozan@c-f7b2e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:41:37 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 13:42:29 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:44:30 Amadiro [jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no] has joined #lisp 13:44:46 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.65.126] has joined #lisp 13:46:48 -!- Ribon is now known as Daisy 13:47:57 -!- am0c [~am0c@125.129.194.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:48:15 nanoc [~conanhome@mail.openminds.com.ar] has joined #lisp 13:49:32 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.65.126] has quit [Client Quit] 13:51:53 stlifey [~stlifey@59.35.103.135] has joined #lisp 13:55:53 -!- reb` [user@nat/google/x-tkfqzitlnytddfhw] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:59:00 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 13:59:43 -!- niels1 [~niels@p4FD6C15A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 13:59:53 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@220.Red-79-148-146.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:54 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:06:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:06:32 -!- erann [~erann@142.Red-83-33-80.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:09:20 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-124-178.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:20 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-124-178.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:09:20 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 14:09:40 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:09:51 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:10:29 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:11:30 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@75.82.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:14:17 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-54-189.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 14:19:59 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:19:59 slot names with the same SYMBOL-NAME but different SYMBOL-PACKAGE (possible package problem) for class ... 14:20:05 ^ me no like 14:21:38 no, it is not a "possible package problem", it is precisely what i want to have and this warning is just a nuisance. 14:23:19 tjasko [~tjasko@65.217.244.130] has joined #lisp 14:23:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:08 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 14:25:53 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:26:39 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.178.160] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 14:27:29 summon_ [~summon@l37-193-248-93.novotelecom.ru] has joined #lisp 14:28:24 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 14:31:08 jenia [~jenia@modemcable028.115-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:31:33 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-f7b2e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:32:30 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@80.63.227.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:32:35 use either shadowing-import or shadow the symbol in question ? 14:32:37 SHODAN [~shozan@c-f7b2e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:33:48 wbooze: no. i actually do want to have two separate slots. 14:34:25 aaah 14:34:35 slots was it...meh 14:36:31 uh, "The return value of STABLE-SORT-LIST should not be discarded." 14:36:34 i'm sorting a vector 14:36:56 ayayay 14:38:07 and i'm using SORT 14:38:40 sort's return value should not be discarded either 14:39:42 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.81] has joined #lisp 14:41:36 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:41:38 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@mail.openminds.com.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 14:41:44 oh 14:41:55 when sorting a vector it will be the same vector 14:42:07 i assume ^^ 14:42:08 ml__: are you trying to educate me now? 14:42:18 ok, i see 14:42:58 ml__: is the implementation required to use the same structure? if not, then you should assign the result. 14:43:04 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:26 ml__: the same holds for any other potentially destructive operation 14:43:45 ok, thanks 14:43:55 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:44:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:44:49 madnificent: the return value of sort should never ever be discarded. 14:44:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:45:08 ml__: and even if the structure has te be reused, it might possibly not be right. for instance, assume sort would be required to reuse the same cons cells, but that it could reorder them. if you'd not assign the result again, the first cell could not be the cell that was formerly the first cell. therefore, if you wouldn't assign the result, it would still yield you only a partial list. 14:45:47 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@59.35.103.135] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 14:46:13 H4ns: i wasn't limiting myself to sort in that statement. should've explicited it, apparently. 14:48:28 common-lisp.net load was spiking about 10 for the past fifteen minutes. 14:48:37 It seems to be subsiding a bit. 14:49:33 probably spamd 14:49:37 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.81] has joined #lisp 14:49:49 Naw. Looks like the trac fcgi. 14:50:15 uh, ok. 14:50:16 It actually might be legitimate load. 14:50:34 Or maybe something heavy is crawling. 14:52:40 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-156-202.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 14:54:29 But now the one minute load avg. is under 2.0, so things indeed seem to be settling down. 14:56:21 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 14:57:02 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 14:57:09 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.205] has joined #lisp 14:58:16 nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has joined #lisp 14:58:45 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 15:00:31 oubiwann [~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:33 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 15:04:21 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-gfjehjvfupzvahee] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:04:28 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:04:29 -!- hjlee [~hjlee@218.236.65.240] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:09:54 piko_ [~piko@194.228.13.151] has joined #lisp 15:14:27 aajmakin [~aajmakin@morphine.tml.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 15:16:46 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:19:08 -!- oubiwann [~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:19:52 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:19:54 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:19 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:23 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:22:54 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:23:10 Thra11_ [~thrall@75.82.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:21 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.210.84] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 15:26:24 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:47 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable216.122-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:28:57 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:29:06 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.145] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:29:22 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.145] has joined #lisp 15:33:59 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 15:40:22 cdidd [~cdidd@37-145-57-39.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 15:41:18 -!- balle [~basti@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:03 -!- kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:42:34 jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-224.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:43:01 -!- literal_ is now known as literal 15:43:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:47:53 -!- jenia [~jenia@modemcable028.115-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:48:22 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@75.82.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:48:35 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 15:48:55 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 15:51:18 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:58:26 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 15:59:39 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:03:21 cpc26 [~user@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 16:03:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-51.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:04:00 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:04:06 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:04:19 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:04:24 Hi, would anyone know if the lisp extension ALisp is available for download? 16:05:59 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-156-202.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:06:15 alisp subsystem of amos2? 16:06:31 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 16:07:53 I am not sure but it is an AI extension. I think amos2 was an object system but you may be mentioning a differnet amos2? 16:11:39 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~textual@69.164.192.175] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:12:10 ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 16:17:07 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:19:03 sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:27 -!- Ralt [~Ralt@eup38-1-82-247-184-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:21:32 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:12 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:34 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 16:24:57 I want to develop standalone applications for the ipad using only common lisp. How? 16:25:05 ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.69] has joined #lisp 16:25:11 -!- sellout42 is now known as sellout 16:25:33 save-lisp-and-die ? 16:25:39 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:25:45 use the :executable t option 16:26:05 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:16 and maybe even the environment and the toplevel function to jump to when you start your executable..... 16:26:26 hmm well yes that is considering I had already build sbcl on teh ipad 16:26:52 I have a desktop linux 16:27:20 then make sure to have the core file and the dump both together or so.... 16:27:42 else, it won't maybe start with other cores, since there's no guarantee for that..... 16:28:05 wbooze: I don't know whether you gotvmy question. The operative word there was *ipad* 16:28:41 ipad, wait what OS is that ? 16:28:53 macos ? 16:29:08 :-S 16:29:11 something based on jvm like the android ? 16:29:13 oh man 16:29:30 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:29:35 next ? 16:29:37 and android is not based on jvm 16:29:58 yes ok dalvik.... 16:30:04 not jvm itself.... 16:30:08 francogrex: have you tried ECL? 16:30:36 jdz: on android yes I built on android but not on ipad yet.. 16:30:54 i don't know which common-lisp implementation runs on ipad sorry.... 16:31:08 ihihih 16:31:17 the frustration is that I have to build my ECL on the ipad first... is there no way to create ipad apps by being using my linux ecl/sbcl, clisp etc... ? 16:31:35 francogrex: why would there be? 16:31:50 it would make life easier for humans 16:31:55 haha 16:32:07 isn't that the purpose of programming? 16:32:17 use a machine to facilitate life? 16:32:36 oubiwann [~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:11 no 16:33:45 francogrex: did you try searching emulators? using one of them it should work like every other language 16:33:46 the purpose of programming is getting rich by creating closed platforms so only people who pay you can do anything 16:34:41 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 16:34:43 not specific to lisp that is 16:35:56 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:06 jimch [~jimch@77.237.101.147] has joined #lisp 16:39:28 facilitate life yes... but: do you renounce closed-source and all the spiritual forces of wickedness that rebel against free-software? :) 16:39:48 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:48 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:41:50 -!- segv_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-128-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv_] 16:41:59 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:44:24 -!- paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has left #lisp 16:50:21 Vicfred [~Grothendi@189.228.29.178] has joined #lisp 16:53:49 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:52 i think i am missing something fundamental: how do i need to change http://paste.lisp.org/display/133616 so that push-1 modifies the variable being passed in? 16:56:11 eMBee: you'll need a macro for that. 16:56:30 ah, right 16:58:44 jdz: if you think you need a closed platform for that, you obviously haven't tried to hack on gcc 16:59:06 jasom: well, obviously 17:02:56 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 17:03:01 -!- sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:04:17 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-204-200.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:37 -!- chebastian [~chebastia@c-d875e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit 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[~chebastia@c-d875e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:47:21 -!- bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:53:12 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-67-183.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: catmtking] 18:54:02 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:54:54 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:57:02 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 18:57:24 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 19:00:48 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-039-183.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:53 leifw [~user@pool-108-27-202-11.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:18 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:10:37 francogrex [~user@109.130.56.100] has joined #lisp 19:12:09 for those who were doubting the possibility of building lisp apps for the ipad while on a linux desktop, isn't this the proof that "yes, we can": https://github.com/kriyative/ecl-iphone-builder 19:12:32 You don't need to develop on the ipad or the emulator itself 19:16:23 -!- chebastian [~chebastia@c-d875e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:17:13 francogrex: and lisp on the ipad gives you exactly what? 19:17:16 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:17:28 except world domination, of course? 19:18:05 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:18:53 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 19:19:23 hacker cred, of course. 19:19:36 ah, world domination and that. else? 19:20:47 it will make all retarted ipad users my bitches 19:21:17 -!- peterhil- [~user@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:22:24 booguie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:06 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:26:39 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:27:09 ah. right. 19:27:14 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:28:57 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:29:02 -!- `fogus [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:30:10 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@59.35.103.135] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 19:34:06 ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.69] has joined #lisp 19:42:57 Back to serious. In sbcl and clisp you can have :init-function and also script. In ecl can one do that easily? 19:45:42 -!- jimch [~jimch@77.237.101.147] has quit [Quit: quit] 19:50:13 chebastian [~chebastia@c-d875e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:51:40 -!- sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:56:53 -!- chebastian [~chebastia@c-d875e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:58:10 -!- booguie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:09 answering myself; it's (epilogue-code) and prologue-code 20:00:14 *francogrex* is great 20:00:40 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:01:50 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-224.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:10:00 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.56.100] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:12:33 -!- summon_ [~summon@l37-193-248-93.novotelecom.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:12:44 -!- attila_lendvai 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Connection reset by peer] 21:18:39 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:21:46 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.246.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:24:19 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:29:39 nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@63.251.54.158] has joined #lisp 21:30:14 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-204-200.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:28 -!- nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@63.251.54.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:58 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-204-200.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:33:25 clhs apropos 21:33:25 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apropo.htm 21:33:56 -!- tjasko [~tjasko@65.217.244.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:34:03 *drewc* figures that is a good answer to the next few questions that pop up :P 21:34:13 -!- zulu_inuoe_ [~zulu_inuo@184.89.111.53] has left #lisp 21:34:24 -!- galiley [~user@84.40.73.148] has left #lisp 21:36:31 Ralt [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 21:37:12 antonv [5d7d3144@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.68] has joined #lisp 21:42:55 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:44:48 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: T] 21:46:25 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:46:45 erann [~erann@182.Red-83-61-34.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:22 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:52:16 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 21:53:38 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:55:57 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:58:20 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:59:08 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:49 prolly not; a majority of irc is crybaby bitches asking for you to do thier work 22:00:05 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-139-67.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:04 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:21 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:24 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@2002:54c0:6de6:0:a5d2:e3f1:414b:97e2] has joined #lisp 22:02:38 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:48 patojo [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:06 -!- booguie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:50 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 22:04:31 true ... and the spelling mistakes and abbrev ... I guess that clhs does not have a SPELL after all. :D 22:08:42 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:09:06 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:10:03 -!- cpc26 [~user@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:11:16 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 22:11:22 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:26 francogrex [~user@109.130.56.100] has joined #lisp 22:13:28 add^_^ [~add^_@m37-2-170-233.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 22:14:33 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-54-189.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:14:33 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 22:16:35 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.151.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:20:09 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:23:54 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:20 -!- wuehli [~wuehlmaus@freeshell.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:26:16 ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.69] has joined #lisp 22:27:41 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:28:04 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DC11322.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 22:28:54 senj [~textual@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:20 -!- erann [~erann@182.Red-83-61-34.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:33:27 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.223] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:33:55 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-169.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:24 wuehli [~wuehlmaus@freeshell.de] has joined #lisp 22:36:29 erann [~erann@182.Red-83-61-34.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:02 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@2002:54c0:6de6:0:a5d2:e3f1:414b:97e2] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:43:09 add^_^ [~add^_@m37-2-163-245.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 22:43:44 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-170-233.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:43:45 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 22:43:52 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-012-154.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:47:54 -!- senj [~textual@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 22:48:17 senj [~textual@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:35 -!- nightfly_ is now known as nightfly 22:54:07 -!- nightfly is now known as nightfly_ 22:54:38 -!- Ralt [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:54:39 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-194-171.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:55:48 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-156-202.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:56 first time using LOOP to sum up things 22:56:19 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.56.100] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:56:36 ml__: Instead of (reduce #'+ )? 22:57:08 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-156-202.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:57:19 instead of (let ((sum 0.0)) (dolist (...))) 22:57:55 ^^ 22:58:42 my elements are in a vector because i needed to sort them first, and then only take the first 20 22:59:07 is SORT actually fast on small lists? say length < 50 23:00:24 isak [~isak@h87-241-95-252.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:35 prolly not 23:00:58 many general procedures are not as fast as hand tailored ones.... 23:01:01 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.71.162] has joined #lisp 23:01:18 it ought to be reasonably fast. you could check the implementation. 23:01:20 but that would be only because you know beforehand what types you feed it..... 23:01:42 but yes, reasonably fast 23:02:14 still i'd do an (apply #'+ ...) then 23:02:24 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:20 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-163-245.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 23:06:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:07:07 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:12 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 23:11:36 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:12:23 -!- isak [~isak@h87-241-95-252.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has quit [] 23:12:47 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:14:06 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 23:26:11 oh this is funny, slime uses C-c M-q for indenting the whole expr but C-c C-q is undefined 23:26:43 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:28:04 SrPx [b1624343@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.98.67.67] has joined #lisp 23:28:27 I know you guys hate them, but just for fun, is there any way to implement infix operators on lisp? 23:28:46 yes, there are three or four implementations floating around 23:28:54 oh (: 23:29:18 using reader macros 23:29:22 is inferior-shell the current standard lib for calling external os executables? 23:32:40 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 23:32:44 SrPx: I think the one that people used to recommend here is the #I reader macro/ 23:32:49 should be on cliki.net 23:33:07 Hmm let me see. 23:33:58 -!- erann [~erann@182.Red-83-61-34.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: erann] 23:34:05 http://cliki.net/Infix even (: 23:34:57 (: 23:37:22 would it be difficult to get a different slime shortcut for a debug compile, with safety 3? 23:38:18 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 23:40:15 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:28 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:55 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:40 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:27 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:47:13 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #lisp 23:47:29 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:15 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:53:26 -!- bubo [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:56:10 C-u C-c C-c? 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