00:01:07 is cffi in quicklisp still old one, without (:struct whatever) stuff? 00:01:51 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.52.255.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:02:46 yes 00:05:06 is it gonna be there eventually? ie if I'm writing code for lets say cl-fam, should I use :struct stuff or no? 00:06:50 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 00:07:05 S0da [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 00:07:11 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:08:54 How do i force the (mem-ref stack-allocated-thingy '(:struct whatever)) to return plist? 00:09:23 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-42-1.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:09:26 it works from repl, but not from compiled code (due to compiler macro I think?).. was the opposite problem with commonqt, do I have to enable some var? forgot which one 00:09:56 maxm-: if that's true, it's a bug 00:10:07 ok, I'll just do it manually 00:10:18 does the :class thing work? 00:14:19 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.22.136.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 00:15:26 -!- Stanislaw_ [~quassel@124-148-251-7.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15:46 kind of inconsistent that with-foreign-object needs quoted '(struct :whatever) but (with-foreign-slots) needs unquoted one 00:17:42 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:17:45 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:18:44 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 00:19:12 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:19:59 paultreselli [~chatzilla@ool-4570ec34.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:57 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:21:29 Is a compiler allowed to discard an uninterned symbol even if there are references to it? 00:21:33 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053006242.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 00:23:30 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 00:23:45 it can't discard anything you can get it, far as I know. 00:24:09 as for your paste, it's some tricky combination of macrolet's toplevelness and defparameter's, I guess. 00:25:00 -!- paultreselli [~chatzilla@ool-4570ec34.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 13.0/20120601045813]] 00:25:11 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:28:05 superflit_ [~superflit@75-166-71-88.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:30 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:29:31 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 00:29:32 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:29:35 Bike: well it's not macrolet in particular, of course; regular defmacro has the same symptoms 00:30:07 -!- superflit [~superflit@216-160-142-247.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:30:07 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 00:36:23 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:42:14 davyzhu [~user@114.91.106.30] has joined #lisp 00:46:13 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:31 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:49:57 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 00:50:24 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:03 -!- forgottenwizard [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:56:57 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:07:01 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:07:33 forgottenwizard [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 01:08:47 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:52 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 01:13:11 -!- forgottenwizard [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:17:09 -!- davyzhu [~user@114.91.106.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:17:21 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Farewell, farewell, God knows when we shall meet again. --Shakespeare] 01:17:40 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:00 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:18:17 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A346.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:15 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839A1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:20:44 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 01:21:12 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 01:21:20 nan_ [~candodget@94.55.130.42] has joined #lisp 01:22:13 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 01:22:17 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:23:52 Hello everyone, what is the web library of choice nowadays? I got almost no idea about this side of programming but i want to do something with Lisp, and learning in the process. 01:25:13 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@201-58-194-49.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 01:25:14 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:26:02 Educate me please, don't point me to lousy google :P 01:27:26 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:07 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-42-1.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:28:07 I want to write a sort statement that sorts lists... so as an example I want ((+ P)(- R)(+ Q)) and ((+ Q)(- R)(+ P)), when sorted to equal the same thing... I guess I want to sort on the letters and not the +/- ... how can I set up a predicate for sort that will do this? 01:28:30 alternately, if there's a function that will just allow me to test equality between those two lists directly without sorting them, I'd rather use that 01:28:32 bc1: use :key 01:29:05 hm ok, let me play with that 01:30:58 felideon [~felideon@184.170.255.36] has joined #lisp 01:31:26 set-exclusive-or. 01:32:42 Oh wow, I didn't know there was a function for that. 01:32:54 ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 01:33:05 I almost had the sort figured out too haha :) 01:33:15 f my life, seriously 01:33:23 davyzhu [~user@114.91.106.30] has joined #lisp 01:33:26 cause after the set difference thing you pointed out earlier 01:33:34 I went looking for all the set operators 01:33:41 and only saw the xor stuff 01:34:01 and I kid you not, I was just talking about the proof behind xor swap to someone today 01:34:13 thanks again, both of you 01:35:33 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 01:36:54 looks like i have to add "-stackoverflow" to every google search from now on 01:38:36 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.171.74.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:40:34 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:10 nan_: {hunchentoot | restas | clack | ... } + {cl-who | sexml | yaclml | ...} 01:42:57 -!- erann [~erann@214.Red-83-33-85.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: erann] 01:43:11 nan_: join #lispweb 01:43:18 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:43:30 thanks both of you! 01:44:14 p_nathan [~anunknown@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 01:44:15 ooh actually, the more I read about set-exclusive-or, I wonder if this can be done with the test/key stuff 01:44:22 so let me ask a new question 01:44:43 nan_: easy: just forbid that domain. 01:44:53 -!- fms [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:45:22 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:45:41 say I have ((+ P)(+ Q)) and then I have a list of these types of things, say (((+ S))((+ Q)(+ P))((+ T)(+ P))) 01:46:26 pkhuong: is there a rationale for this wrt sbcl? http://paste.lisp.org/display/133546 01:46:27 rather than recursing through and comparing each element (the middle one matches, though it is in a different order from the first one) and then removing it and returning the list 01:46:56 can I use set-exclusive-or with some test/key stuff to just directly return (((+ S))((+ T)(+ P))) ? 01:47:48 you could remove-if with some set-xor lambda, I think 01:48:11 lmj`: it's undefined what happens to uninterned symbols when they are compile-file/load-ed. 01:48:37 if you don't want separate compilation, don't use compile-file. 01:48:59 bc1: at some point, it pays off to use descriptive words like conjunction, disjunction or literal. 01:49:00 hm, I'll take a look at remove-if 01:49:20 bc1: and then you can get help on better structuring your data than only using lists. 01:50:10 pkhuong: thanks, it is so annoying i'll just "opt out" on www.google.com/ads/preferences/... hope it works 01:50:51 I wasn't aware that logic terms like those were used to describe things in lisp 01:51:10 pkhuong: thanks, I suspected as much, but didn't look hard enough in clhs 01:51:34 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51:53 Bike: so compiler is allowed to forget an uninterned symbol, even if a reference exists 01:52:10 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:19 lmj`: it's not forgotten. A new one has been created. Different thing. 01:56:17 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:57:48 pkhuong: so sbcl looks at the string value of *foo* and creates a new symbol based on that? 02:00:02 lmj`: it's an uninterned symbol. It creates a new uninterned symbol with the sane name. 02:00:14 right that's what I mean 02:00:15 How can you tell the difference between two references to the same or to different uninterned symbols? 02:00:55 wooooooooooooooow 02:01:08 Bike: congrats, you just inspired me to break my lambda cherry 02:01:49 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:02:03 (remove-if #'(lambda (X) (not (set-exclusive-or '((+ P)(+ Q)) X :test #'equal))) '(((+ S))((+ Q)(+ P))((+ T)(+ P)))) 02:02:05 :) 02:02:49 great. now you should probably take pkhuong's advice and use a better representation than linked lists for sets. 02:03:29 I don't think I'm allowed to 02:03:49 we have all sorts of weird restrictions (this is part of a huge assignment) 02:04:05 my condolences. 02:04:45 pkhuong: whether they are eq or not? Not sure where the question comes from. In any case I understand the undefinedness of the behavior. 02:04:47 heh, gotta roll with the punches.. besides, doing things the hard way is forcing me to learn a lot 02:05:32 I suppose I was surprised that sbcl bothered to make a new symbol, but it's allowed to do whatever it wants there. 02:06:30 -!- p_nathan [~anunknown@75.87.250.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:06:33 lmj`: we can't test for EQness, one of the reference only exists as a fasl on disk. 02:07:34 teggi [~teggi@113.172.56.34] has joined #lisp 02:08:02 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:11 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:45 ah right, C-c-c is using compile-file, forgot about that. Indeed slime-eval-last-expression doesn't copy. 02:10:01 p_nathan [~anunknown@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 02:10:47 fms [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:10 -!- fms is now known as Guest69546 02:12:05 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 02:12:37 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:06 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:16:17 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 02:16:20 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:18:37 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:19:12 -!- Guest69546 [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:22:10 -!- superflit [~superflit@75-166-71-88.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:22:20 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-164-129.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:23:08 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:28:43 -!- S0da [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:30:27 -!- nan_ [~candodget@94.55.130.42] has left #lisp 02:36:58 -!- lmj` [~lmj`@c-71-234-73-89.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:37:37 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 02:37:44 -!- davyzhu [~user@114.91.106.30] has left #lisp 02:38:18 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 02:38:57 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 02:39:59 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:42:00 booguie [~booguie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:30 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:45:38 CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:47:00 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 02:47:25 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 02:49:40 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:50:13 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:57 justinmc_ [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:04 Thra11_ [~thrall@15.154.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:15 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:48 fms_ [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:22 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:54:17 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:54:36 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:55:14 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.113.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:55:17 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:57:10 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 02:57:43 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 03:02:16 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:05:04 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.153.79.23] has joined #lisp 03:08:22 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 03:09:55 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@15.154.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:17:14 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 03:18:55 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 03:19:17 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:23:38 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:26:37 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:07 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:28:19 superflit [~superflit@75-166-71-88.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:45 -!- booguie [~booguie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:35:35 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:36:45 -!- NaCl [~NaCl@unaffilated/nacl/x-827312] has left #lisp 03:48:47 I'm having trouble conceptualizing something. I have two lists, say one = (a b c) and two = (1 2 3 4 5). I want to basically run some function, fcn, as follows: 03:48:47 (fcn c (fcn b (fcn a two))) 03:49:30 I've been sitting here all day writing recursive functions and now my brain is fried 03:50:10 (also, order here isn't important... I could do (fcn a (fcn b (fcn c two))) and that would work too 03:50:17 ) 03:50:27 bc1: then take a break. Walk outside, have a glass of your favourite beverage, sleep. or read on reduce. 03:50:57 will go read about reduce then :) 03:51:10 I am going to take a hot bath in a bit 03:51:18 buuuuuuut I want to finish these functions first 03:52:10 bxx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 03:53:51 (loop for vars in '(a b c) for form = `(fcn ,var two) then `(fcn ,var ,form) finally (return form)) 03:54:01 no loops allowed 03:54:02 :( 03:54:19 I don't cater to arbitrary restrictions. 03:54:22 haha :) 03:54:31 If loop is not allowed, then just implement it using what's allowed and USE it! 03:54:59 reduce looks interesting, I'm reading stuff about it and if it works then I can probably rewrite some of my other code to make it easier to read too 03:55:59 Sure, reduce does. But it uses a loop! 03:56:49 I think that's probably ok... explicit loops are outlawed, and he gave us a list of stuff we couldn't use 03:57:17 do, dotimes, dolist, loop, and go are explicitly banned, anyway 03:57:48 write macros for them using tail recursion, piss off your teacher 03:58:01 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:59:24 write a tagbody macro that expands into tail-recursive code ;) 03:59:54 (reduce 'fcn list :from-end :initial-value two) 04:00:07 :from-end t 04:01:35 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:02:37 -!- benny [~user@i577A1BC9.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:08:36 DoctorDude [~Jake@144.26.128.58] has joined #lisp 04:08:41 -!- DoctorDude [~Jake@144.26.128.58] has left #lisp 04:11:41 wow 04:11:59 bxx thanks, I was having real trouble understanding what was going on with reduce 04:12:20 didn't really understand why it was giving me pairwise errors at first 04:12:28 then saw some example with a lambda so was going to use that 04:12:40 but the initial-value thing is the key 04:12:43 thanks 04:13:36 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:15:17 -!- justinmc_ [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:35 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:20:24 any suggestions on debugging out of memory errors in SBCL? http://paste.lisp.org/display/133549 04:22:42 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:26:46 wingy [~wingy@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 04:28:28 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:33:55 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:37:05 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 04:37:40 -!- ameoba [~quassel@71-20-29-59.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:37:49 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@rrcs-24-39-244-158.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:38:56 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-171-72.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 04:43:47 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.56.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:47:36 teggi [~teggi@113.172.56.233] has joined #lisp 04:47:51 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:57 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@rrcs-24-39-244-158.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:50:51 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 04:54:36 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:57:49 bc1 welcome 04:58:21 -!- elixey [~eilyx@gateway/tor-sasl/eilyx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:59:17 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:32 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:02:37 ok here's another question 05:03:35 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 05:03:45 how do I format this properly... I can do a :test #'set-exclusive-or, but what I really want is "not set-exclusive-or" 05:03:56 test-not 05:04:04 thanks 05:04:19 guess I should go look at options for test/test-not and other stuff 05:06:02 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@rrcs-24-39-244-158.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:14:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:16:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 05:16:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.126.38] has joined #lisp 05:16:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.126.38] has quit [Changing host] 05:16:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:18:17 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@rrcs-24-39-244-158.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:19:50 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:20:08 ok another stupid question probably 05:20:15 I'm looking for something to compare... 05:21:16 (sort '((+ Q)(+ R)(+ P)) #'char-lessp :key #'last) 05:21:23 I get why that doesn't work, because P, Q, R aren't chars 05:22:03 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:13 so, is there something that will compare those, and even if not, if I write my own function, I would still need to compare them inside and don't really have an idea how to do it 05:22:22 http://psg.com/~dlamkins/sl/chapter17.html 05:22:24 looking at that 05:22:38 you could compare symbol names. 05:22:46 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:23:06 SYMBOL-NAME 05:23:22 ahhhhh 05:23:37 thank you 05:26:04 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@rrcs-24-39-244-158.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:26:45 it still won't work. 05:30:14 bc1: in fact, the first problem has nothing to do with P, Q, and R not being chars. If you ran that, you may have gotten an informative error. 05:30:27 bc1: (last '(+ P)) => (P), which is neither a symbol, nor a character. 05:31:00 hm, yeah I saw that too 05:31:19 I need to get it out of the list, I guess 05:31:32 just use a different KEY 05:31:42 are they always 2-element lists? 05:31:46 yes 05:31:56 if so, :key #'cadr/#'second will work. 05:32:20 and then you need to convert them to strings 05:32:44 so... :key (alexandria:compose #'symbol-name #'second) 05:33:19 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.70.211] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:33:37 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.70.211] has joined #lisp 05:34:09 is this alexandria thing part of cl? 05:34:17 I'm looking it up 05:34:49 alexandria is basically part of CL, considering how many things depend on it. 05:35:27 if your professor's stupid restrictions prevent using it, you could just write a short anonymous function to do the same thing 05:36:10 actually just #'string-lessp :key #'second works 05:36:11 or (defun compose ...) 05:36:29 maybe string-lessp converts symbols into their name automatically? 05:36:57 oh right. String designators. 05:36:59 :) 05:37:39 bc1: the string comparison functions take 'string designators': http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_s.htm#string_designator 05:37:59 I see 05:38:32 my bad! 05:38:44 your bad is better than my good :P 05:39:00 I appreciate the help 05:40:20 is this your homework? 05:40:52 I'm working on an assignment 05:41:07 but just trying to get answers to very small sub-parts of it 05:41:15 it's a propositional logic theorem prover 05:41:25 and I started using lisp 2 days ago 05:41:33 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:41:34 I guess stupid language technicalities are okay to help with :) 05:42:38 btw, as far as your not-set-exclusive-or problem above. You may find CL:COMPLEMENT useful: l1sp.org/cl/complement 05:42:44 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:58 (though I think :test-not is a better solution in this particular case) 05:43:30 I'm like 90% done with it.. written from the bottom up, all recursive, just finishing off the top levels now and realizing I left out some stuff like removing duplicate clauses 05:43:56 (see the note in that page about deprecation of :*-not args) 05:44:04 -!- fms_ [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:44:38 bc1: recursion is amusing. There's often more idiomatic ways to solve things in CL. 05:44:48 interesting 05:45:26 I'm just contstantly impressed by all the stuff that is built into cl 05:45:28 sykopomp: bc1's professor has apparently decided on a number of exciting restrictions on silly things like, say, loops 05:46:42 no assignments either (setf/setq) 05:47:01 I don't even know what those do so shrug 05:47:32 SETF sets places. 05:47:42 it's like the assignment operator in other languages, on steroids. 05:51:29 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:52:24 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 05:57:54 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:59:02 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xcftlqqcboqxrsxy] has joined #lisp 05:59:02 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xcftlqqcboqxrsxy] has quit [Changing host] 05:59:02 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:59:24 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:59:57 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:03 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:06:31 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.153.79.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:08:25 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:10:48 bc1 (sort '((+ Q)(+ R)(+ P)) 'string< :key 'cadr) 06:11:53 ah nevermind you got it 06:11:59 -!- wingy [~wingy@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has left #lisp 06:15:49 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.187] has joined #lisp 06:19:33 nan_ [~candodget@94.55.130.42] has joined #lisp 06:20:09 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:20:55 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:58 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.168] has joined #lisp 06:21:17 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:22:12 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 06:22:56 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:23:09 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.28.127] has joined #lisp 06:24:08 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@81.200.28.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:24:29 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:24:33 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:27:04 teggi_ [~teggi@113.172.40.130] has joined #lisp 06:27:21 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.28.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:28:49 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.56.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:29:26 -!- teggi_ is now known as teggi 06:33:40 i am not sure if it is the right place (not many people in evil-mode room). After a sequence which starts and ends in normal mode, when i repeat it with "." it enters in insert mode. What am i doing wrong? I read something about default-mode but i couldn't make it work. 06:34:03 nan_: #emacs is probably more appropriate. 06:34:20 nan_: this channel's for Common Lisp, the programming language. See /topic. 06:34:21 sykopomp: oh you are right, sorry about that. 06:37:47 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 06:37:59 Kvaks [~kvaks@125.5.200.37.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 06:40:06 fms [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:29 -!- fms is now known as Guest76624 06:41:06 -!- Kvakz [~kvaks@95.161.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:42:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:43:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:43:07 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:37 -!- Guest76624 [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:44:45 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.111.76] has joined #lisp 06:49:04 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:49:27 prxq 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stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-239-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:06 hi 08:30:01 so apparently I was tired yesterday and not bright enough to realise where the extra ~% is coming from, and that's the REPL itself. Let's have a try at separating that effect away. 08:33:00 codeknit [~codeknit@triband-mum-120.60.40.77.mtnl.net.in] has joined #lisp 08:33:12 adding (lp:receive-result channel) before returning from the main function fixes it. 08:35:12 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-42-1.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:35:43 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-21-251-38.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:38:08 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-88-140.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:38:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-212-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:39:21 mm.. 08:39:45 -!- Jeaye [~Jeaye@gateway/tor-sasl/jeaye] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:39:57 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-21-251-38.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:39 hiro3 [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:41:40 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:41:51 cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-219-184.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:42:02 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@58.165.184.176] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:42:16 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@58.165.184.176] has joined #lisp 08:43:01 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:43:03 codygman [~cody@76.78.155.6] has joined #lisp 08:47:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:47:34 -!- ams [ams@gnu/inetutils/ams] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:47:44 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:06 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-239-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:48:30 Read error between positions 0 and 386 in /Users/dim/dev/CL/go-hello-world/package.lisp.; Evaluation aborted on #. 08:48:40 Unexpected end of file on #, near position 386 08:48:49 any tip to easy debugging that? 08:49:03 -!- mrcarrot [~user@unaffiliated/mrcarrot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:49:23 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:49:34 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.22.136.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:49:49 often means you misplaced some parens 08:49:58 dim: Use emacs to move backward and forward over balenced parens until you find the ones that aren't. 08:50:02 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.70.149.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 08:50:11 Or a string is not closed. 08:50:15 ok that's what I'm trying, unsuccessfully 08:51:12 ams [ams@gnu/inetutils/ams] has joined #lisp 08:52:33 trebor_dki [~user@kvpn.lbf.fraunhofer.de] has joined #lisp 08:53:28 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:54:38 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.70.149.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:59:05 jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 08:59:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.118] has joined #lisp 08:59:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.118] has quit [Changing host] 08:59:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:00:34 -!- Kvaks is now known as Kvakz 09:00:35 -!- Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 09:02:40 jack_rabbit [~Jack_rabb@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:24 How can I format some output in a random thread running in an sbcl instance while somehow displaying the result using slime? 09:05:17 oh, that paren problem was in the package.lisp file 09:05:36 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:06:00 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 09:08:54 nevermind, I think I've found the solution in the slime docs :/ 09:09:42 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:10:08 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 09:11:31 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 09:13:00 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:13:30 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 09:13:32 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 09:14:06 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:15:08 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:15:30 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xlsgsoirufjrncjq] has joined #lisp 09:15:30 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xlsgsoirufjrncjq] has quit [Changing host] 09:15:30 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:15:43 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:22 -!- fsvehla [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has left #lisp 09:17:55 rosario [~user@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 09:18:05 fixed the article (and the code too), and published the code on github while at it 09:19:59 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:20:36 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:20:44 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 09:21:14 Is there any way to avoid this package/symbol issues when using XML namespaces? For instance, http://paste.lisp.org/+2V1R does not compile. 09:22:26 (I use S-XML) 09:25:53 s/this/these 09:30:30 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:10 -!- rosario [~user@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:55 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 09:36:02 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:37:51 mrcarrot [~user@86-60-145-168-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi] has joined #lisp 09:37:54 -!- mrcarrot [~user@86-60-145-168-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi] has quit [Changing host] 09:37:54 mrcarrot [~user@unaffiliated/mrcarrot] has joined #lisp 09:40:32 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41:06 -!- jack_rabbit [~Jack_rabb@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #lisp 09:41:48 -!- mrcarrot [~user@unaffiliated/mrcarrot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:44:36 mrcarrot [~user@86-60-145-168-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi] has joined #lisp 09:44:39 -!- mrcarrot [~user@86-60-145-168-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi] has quit [Changing host] 09:44:39 mrcarrot [~user@unaffiliated/mrcarrot] has joined #lisp 09:47:32 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:12 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-qldqqzfbubsyqohe] has joined #lisp 09:52:03 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:57:03 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-011-216.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:12 shifty [~user@114-198-33-177.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:58:31 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@58.165.184.176] has quit [Quit: Bye] 09:58:54 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 10:04:00 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 10:10:59 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 10:11:05 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 10:11:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:16:20 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.171.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:17:08 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:48 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:18 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:19 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.139.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:35:20 benny [~user@i577A1DA9.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:35:27 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.70.149.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 10:36:49 jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has joined #lisp 10:37:42 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 10:40:29 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Client Quit] 10:40:35 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:41:17 ludston [~ludston@CPE-121-216-113-146.lnse2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:42:34 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:47:50 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:49:24 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 10:52:42 anyone interested in cl-fam? works for my needs, but I can publish if someone else wants it, will need to redo cffi for older one 10:53:10 better place would be iolib imho, since it seems to be consolidating everything os related 10:53:57 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 10:57:07 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:57:33 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:59:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:06:27 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 11:08:41 piko_ [~piko@194.228.13.144] has joined #lisp 11:09:30 -!- Ralt [~Ralt@eup38-1-82-247-184-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:19:17 clariprincess1 [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 11:20:40 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:39 -!- clariprincess1 [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Client Quit] 11:23:33 Ralt [~Ralt@eup38-1-82-247-184-72.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:27:26 shifty` [~user@114-198-33-177.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:29:06 -!- shifty [~user@114-198-33-177.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:29:19 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:38 can anyone hint me how i can instruct emacs to indent a certain macro precisely like defun? 11:33:19 (put 'el-get-register-method 'lisp-indent-function (get 'prog1 'lisp-indent-function)) 11:33:24 you use things like this 11:33:54 dim: look like greek to me 11:34:12 H4ns: haha, i was just wondering where to start looking into indenting my macro as a tagbody :) 11:34:45 for now, i have called my macro "defun", but that is, well, not quite right 11:34:46 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-193-216.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 11:34:56 read (info "(emacs) Lisp Indent") maybe 11:35:03 damn 11:36:31 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-212-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:36:45 maxm-: I am. 11:36:55 If fam is File Access monitor. :) 11:37:06 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-156.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:37:07 from (info "(elisp) Indenting Macros") I would guess that you want to do (put 'your-macro-name-here 'lisp-indent-function 'defun) 11:37:18 i found a promising lead: common-lisp-init-standard-indentation function in slime-cl-indent.el (line 1652) 11:38:17 yea 11:38:35 ok I'll polish it up and release today 11:38:47 dim: *bow* thank you! 11:38:57 mmm, that get/put stuff is Emacs Lisp only "maybe" 11:39:11 dim: seems to work for me 11:39:16 H4ns: cool :) 11:39:24 dim: even with a qualified symbol name. or i'm dreaming. 11:39:43 well : is just another character in a function name as far as Elisp is concerned 11:40:05 some elisp files are even using / as the "separator", but there's no such thing as a package nor a module in elisp 11:40:23 because RMS feels that it would help creating non-free Emacs extensions... 11:42:39 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:43:06 :D 11:44:37 dab [~dab@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has joined #lisp 11:45:05 -!- mrcarrot [~user@unaffiliated/mrcarrot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:42 -!- nan_ [~candodget@94.55.130.42] has left #lisp 11:45:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 11:46:42 nan_ [~candodget@94.55.130.42] has joined #lisp 11:46:44 mrcarrot [~user@86-60-145-168-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi] has joined #lisp 11:46:47 -!- mrcarrot [~user@86-60-145-168-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi] has quit [Changing host] 11:46:47 mrcarrot [~user@unaffiliated/mrcarrot] has joined #lisp 11:50:48 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 11:53:02 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 11:54:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:55:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:56:36 honestly with all symbols prefixed with package name, ie whatever-blah-connection in ELisp, I would say namespace / documentation ecosystem of emacs libraries is in better shape then CL one 11:57:58 where its a mess of two styles, the :use'able packages, and the one intended to be prefix:method called.. Two styles don't mix well, it looks great when one or the other is used cons intently, but obviously there is no hope of ever reaching agreement on it 11:58:07 I don't know CL well enough to have an opinion on that, I'll just note that the elisp position is bad enough that Emacs people are still frowning against (require 'cl), pretending that cl introduces too many generic names that could clash against user code 11:59:12 erann [~erann@27.Red-83-33-82.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:38 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:59:57 right now for example, should I go with fam:next-event or fam-next-event? pretty much style choice.. Seems 1st way is trendy right now, but you quickly run out of short nicknames 12:00:30 (for the record I'm doing it conservatively with fam-next-event so both ways can be used 12:00:33 maxm-: i'm not running out of nick names, but i'm not afraid of using longer ones. 12:01:16 yea longer then 5 chars look a bit ugly for half page defuns that call 3-4 diff packages 12:01:51 maxm-: beauty is in the eye of the beholder 12:02:00 especially with half cl packages being pun or weird-inside-joke named (ie why drakma for url lib?) 12:02:17 sdemarre1 [~serge@91.176.13.68] has joined #lisp 12:03:42 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:43 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.13.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:04:12 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:12 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.13.68] has joined #lisp 12:06:19 maxm-: if you want to cater for both camps, create one package for each of the two. 12:07:18 some people would argue for org.maxm-.fam:next-event, and let users pick a nickname that does not clash in their own application 12:07:42 that goes into your over-engineering department :-) I'll release the basic thing with 1 day of cleanup, and hope fe[nl]ix picks it up for iolib 12:07:48 dim: only that cl not have a story for "users picking a nickname" 12:08:14 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:08:35 -!- sdemarre1 [~serge@91.176.13.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:08:58 for once, the facility for doing so does not seem like it's been designed with that use case in mind 12:09:02 actually would be nice to have a poll on who uses which system... Xach make one :-) I think livejournal has polls 12:09:13 I mean (rename-package package package nicknames) 12:10:02 yes, easy enough to add a nickname in a private project, but if you distribute that project then it just reintroduces the package name conflict issues 12:10:28 dim: rename-package works on a global fashion. what would be needed is a package local nickname facility and there have been some attempts to implement that, but it is not possible in a portable fashion. 12:11:13 possible with complete reader replacement, but no one provided fully functional one, rather then proof-of-concept 12:11:31 local nickname would mean something like per package importing rules? 12:11:32 *maxm-* is talking about readtable that replaces everything method 12:11:43 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-20-71.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:11:50 you want to be able to rename a package in the context of another, without impacting the whole lisp image, right? 12:12:26 can you have more than one lisp reader? can you implement a lisp dispatcher that will give the source to the "right" reader? 12:12:30 of course, everything is "possible" with cl. but when what one needs to do is implement a good portion of cl itself to implement a certain feature, the "possibility" is more or less a theoretical one. 12:13:00 I think pjb has done some reader macros going in that direction 12:13:05 package local nicknames are easy to implement with localized patches to each implementation. 12:13:13 in that giant cesarum package hosting 12:13:32 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:17:04 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:17:25 -!- codeknit [~codeknit@triband-mum-120.60.40.77.mtnl.net.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:17:55 -!- mrcarrot [~user@unaffiliated/mrcarrot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:35 mrcarrot [~user@86-60-145-168-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi] has joined #lisp 12:18:39 -!- mrcarrot [~user@86-60-145-168-dyn-dsl.ssp.fi] has quit [Changing host] 12:18:39 mrcarrot [~user@unaffiliated/mrcarrot] has joined #lisp 12:20:43 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:18 peterhil- [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 12:24:01 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:48 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:29:18 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:17 codeknit [~codeknit@triband-mum-120.60.57.132.mtnl.net.in] has joined #lisp 12:34:03 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 12:40:20 drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 12:44:09 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A346.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:48:22 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:52 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 12:49:11 [SLB]` [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 12:49:29 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 12:50:12 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 12:51:30 ok, so cl-gardeners is dead. 12:51:52 Is there another mailing-list that is appropriate for discussing CL library consolidation? 12:52:21 pro? 12:52:49 -!- Kvakz is now known as Kvaks 12:53:00 (not that I'm on that, so I don't know) 12:53:32 The usual suspects... 12:54:10 pro... yes, except libraries are not just for "professionals", but for everyone. 12:54:35 is CCLAN dead? CLOCC? 12:55:04 or are is general CL library discussion not welcome there? 12:55:46 dlw had issued a similar idea and would have hosted the discussion, but he is gone, and so is his LAIR. 12:56:06 I miss the guy, though I seldom agreed with him. 12:59:48 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:03:30 justinmc_ [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:36 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:04:33 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.201] has joined #lisp 13:06:57 just do it on g+.. thats where I find your stuff :-) 13:06:58 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:08:19 fare: What are the worst offenders in terms of too many unconsolidated libraries? 13:09:30 top of my head. "os interface" "sockets" "socket streams" "test frameworks" 13:09:37 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.70.149.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09:54 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.70.149.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 13:09:59 Pretty small beer... those are not hard areas. 13:10:02 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-rzrdhukfahjdkawc] has joined #lisp 13:10:26 threads are fine (bordeaux is consensus).. light lispy enchencements are fine, alexandria 13:11:08 maxm-: well regarding sockets, none of them if really suitable for every need, so it's no surprise people write new libs 13:11:20 moore33: the worst offender is probably testing 13:11:21 "file / pathnames" is too many I think. fad, iolib, what else? 13:11:23 too many concurrency libs, for me lparallel is making its way out of the bag 13:11:26 then, general-purpose libraries 13:11:36 web frameworks also could use some consolidation 13:11:41 iolib isn't a file/pathname library; cl-fad is 13:11:43 http://cliki.net/Concurrency 13:11:50 run-program interfaces. 13:12:16 I'm personally working on pattern-matching, data structures, and run-program. 13:12:20 lazy lists 13:12:22 galdor: well yea the "event / polling", sockets and streams are very inter-connected.. You want to be able to access "raw fd", for polling/rawio like stuff, yet to wrap it around high level with streams 13:12:35 dim: that might fall under "data structures". 13:12:49 maxm-: yep, and it's also directly related with timers, signals, os interface 13:12:52 I think it does, I also think it shows the problem quite well 13:12:58 *maxm-* is pretty much working on logging, altho I don't get lots of users, probably over-engineered, but works for me 13:13:08 logging is an offender 13:14:05 database access 13:14:07 persistence 13:14:09 next update gonna be super-awesome with emacs integration (right click or menu through entire logger hierachy, set levels and such).. Plus steramlining stuff, dotted categories will be default, and such 13:14:22 the list is long 13:14:37 anyway... you don't have to care about everything 13:14:45 but please care about your own domains. 13:14:56 someone had a pretty good generic JDBC like lib, it was hosted on google code, with drivers for oracle, postfix and something else 13:15:00 your own libraries, those you use 13:15:09 *maxm-* liked the minimalist jdbc-like set of generics 13:15:11 for postgresql at least, there isn't any problem, postmodern just works 13:15:33 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:15:36 postmodern still lacks some features around COPY and I think listen/notify 13:15:45 dim: listen/notify have been added 13:15:49 oh cool 13:15:51 *maxm-* never checked out postmodern, is it jdbc-like (or every other db lib in existance, ie Perl DBI, with prepare/fetch/execute) 13:15:55 or it does some lispy stuff? 13:16:01 dim: indeed, but patches are welcome I guess :) 13:16:03 now I need to care about adding PGQ support for CL then :) 13:16:18 maxm-: it implements the postgresql wire protocol 13:16:32 oh a native driver 13:16:38 so its low-level then? 13:16:46 galdor: I began working on COPY support for postmodern (can't remember if it's missing copy in or copy out), but I don't have enough round tuits 13:17:14 -!- nan_ [~candodget@94.55.130.42] has left #lisp 13:17:34 -!- Kvaks is now known as Kvakz 13:17:45 nan_ [~candodget@94.55.130.42] has joined #lisp 13:17:45 -!- nan_ [~candodget@94.55.130.42] has left #lisp 13:17:50 user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:52 imho if you going to support db other then postgress, need "api + drivers" model like everyone else.. Obviously CLOS based for cl 13:17:58 low level well it allows you to execute SQL query, and it has a lispy syntax for it 13:18:29 maxm-: any non-trivial application will use db-specific features; postmodern works if you write an aplication using postgresql 13:18:34 + type mapping, cursors, prepared statements, etc 13:18:42 Fare: where is fare-quasiquote-extras? 13:18:44 so you can have native drivers, shared-mem drivers (ie high performance dediced server OCI for oracle) 13:19:41 galdor: I worked at the shop where we were cross platform db/wise, so I'm a bit biased that its possible to do that.. Can't force customers to go Oracle, if their existing infrastructure is all informix 13:20:26 everyone has its needs; you can write a generic db interface using postmodern as driver for postgresql 13:20:49 you can pretty much steal the API model from JDBC or Perl DBI anyway.. They are all conceptually almost twins (Oracle OCI too) 13:21:35 *maxm-* just discussing this as commenting on Fare's "consolidating libs" discussion, I personally don't have current interest in SQL stuff 13:22:54 maxm-: cl-sql has support for multiple backends 13:23:02 err, clsql 13:23:28 booguie [~booguie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:20 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:29:26 add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-171-154.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:29:29 fsvehla [~Fullmoon@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 13:29:34 -!- fsvehla [~Fullmoon@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Client Quit] 13:37:53 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-011-216.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:38:10 *Xach* emails Fare 13:40:54 -!- Kvakz is now known as Kvaks 13:43:18 Xach: oops. Pushed. 13:43:30 -!- justinmc_ [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:44:19 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 13:44:54 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:01 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:02 Xach: also pushed a new fare-utils, xcvb, inferior-shell, scribble, exscribe 13:45:44 Xach: any plans to upgrade asdf in quicklisp, ever? 13:45:57 scribble? 13:46:08 Does it have something to do with documentation? :] 13:46:16 naryl: skribe- and scribble- like syntax for CL. 13:46:21 niels2 [~niels@p4FD6CC1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:33 I used to write all my webpages with it, because I like footnotes. 13:46:34 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:02 these days, I'm adopting Racket's scribble, for the community, and the ability to produce better PDF (via LaTeX) output. 13:47:25 even though it doesn't support footnotes as well 13:48:08 (it has some CSS hack to push stuff to the right side, but if two sidenotes are too close, you lose) 13:48:38 (the footnotes with be footnotes in LaTeX/PDF output, though) 13:49:09 what's the benefit of scribble against texinfo? I guess you can embed lisp, is that it? 13:49:29 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:49:41 -!- niels1 [~niels@p4FD6E694.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:51:25 Fare: Someday. 13:52:59 If you wanted good ECL support, uh, I just added something I was missing in 2.26. Oops. 13:53:46 elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has joined #lisp 13:53:57 (it was working before, but as compared to the ECL-specific version, I was missing support for builtin .asd's as use by its require mechanism) 13:54:06 If you had all the time in the world for a Lisp project, what would it be? 13:54:08 I have a number pending changes I'd like to publish, and ASDF is among them. Too much traveling and illness recently. 13:54:11 (now asdf 2.26 and ECL's internal asdf are in synch) 13:54:22 please don't burn out! 13:54:38 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:54:48 elkng: i would like to finish my library to make all amazon services supported from CL 13:55:07 elkng: and would like to make a code/library search system tailored to Common Lisp 13:55:26 then i would like to sit back and just watch the bitcoin roll in from my efforts 13:56:05 also a CL api for ebay so I didn't have to use their website any more 13:56:35 elkng, I replied to that in my recent interview already :-) http://lisp-univ-etc.blogspot.com/2012/10/lisp-hackers-francois-rene-fare-rideau.html 13:56:59 I was glad to have suggested it as an interview question 13:57:28 Fare: " 13:57:28 13:57:32 "Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist." 13:57:35 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-102-77-158.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:44 elkng: works for me 13:58:09 it works, I pasted without last "e" 13:58:31 or not, strange 13:58:33 Xach: congrats, again 13:59:19 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@rrcs-24-39-244-158.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:21 not, for this link: "http://lisp-univ-etc.blogspot.com/2012/10/lisp-hackers-francois-rene-fare-ride" I pasted in browser it said: "Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist." 13:59:29 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@rrcs-24-39-244-158.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:59:30 Hmm, parseltongue is still busted. 13:59:36 *Xach* can't figure out why at first glance 13:59:59 elkng, on xchat I can just click on it. You're missing au.html 14:00:34 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 14:00:35 Xach: any suggestion of an existing mailing-list for library consolidation talk? 14:00:47 Fare: yes I have issues with dissapeared text in irssi 14:01:41 dim: yes, I can embed arbitrary lisp code. It's programmable, extensible, etc. 14:01:57 Fare: I can't think of any. 14:03:29 dim: it's just regular lisp code with an embedded syntax for markup, either [,(emph[Skribe]) style] or @text{@em{Scribble} style}. Note that my library was called Scribble before Racket Scribble existed. 14:03:49 (but only supported an extended Skribe style at the time) 14:03:51 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@rrcs-24-39-244-158.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:03:59 ok 14:05:19 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 14:05:52 -!- elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:06:28 Hi. I have some problem quickloading cl-ncurses. It complains "Error opening shared object "/lib64/libncurses.so": 14:06:28 /lib64/libncurses.so: file too short." Is this something odd with quicklisp, cl-ncurses or my linux installation? 14:06:48 *Xach* doesn't think it is quicklisp 14:06:59 elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has joined #lisp 14:06:59 -!- Kvaks is now known as Kvakz 14:07:09 It is a symbolic link which doesn't, naturally, is a very long file. 14:07:38 cl-ncurses might not be very clever as to where libraries are located 14:08:10 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 14:08:10 But it looks in the right place, as long as it follows symlinks... 14:08:29 *Fare* hasn't yet tried making CL work well in NixOS, and shudders at the idea of fixing dynlib loading. 14:09:00 Cymew, is the error related to some incompatibility b/w two sets of libraries? 14:09:14 I'm kind of confused about what component is actually trying the load and why it fails. Not following the link is the only way I can figure out the lib to be "too small". 14:09:20 -!- codygman [~cody@76.78.155.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:09:58 Fare: Could be I guess. I just restarted my lisp and have not loaded anything but asdf from my .sbclrc (I think). 14:10:12 So I'm at a loss where. 14:10:25 Cymew: ldd =sbcl 14:10:29 Cymew: is is a symlink or a linker script ? 14:11:09 now that I have inferior-shell, I should write a library for it, instead of relying on zsh. 14:11:33 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:12:02 linker script isn't the right name, but you get the idea 14:12:10 Fare: ldd on sbcl doesn't show much odd. pthread, mlib and the like. If it's a comflict, it's subtle. 14:12:16 for example my /usr/lib/libncurses.so contains "INPUT(-lncursesw)" 14:12:50 I remember having problems with this kind of script with a ffi, but I can't say if it was with CFFI or with the haskell ffi 14:13:10 Cynew: what if you just load libncurses.so without specifying a path? 14:13:48 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: no future] 14:14:29 -!- p8m_ [~p8m@67.210.179.76] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:14:34 Ah, I read across the lines. galdor was right, it was a "linker script", whatever that is. (I'm not very good at linking magic, and it was apparently the so.5 file that was a link to the .so.5.9 file...) 14:14:45 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:15:40 Fare: I'm afraid I have no idea how to do it. UFFI/CFFI is unknown territory for me and I go here when they show up and not just silently work... 14:15:43 codygman [~cody@76.78.155.6] has joined #lisp 14:16:23 But, that 'INPUT(-lncursesw)' part does look wrong. 14:16:58 just use directly ncursesw 14:17:04 I'm thinking I might was well ditch cl-ncurses for now... 14:17:05 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 14:17:35 it's not wrong, it's just a way to indicate that ncurses is in fact ncursesw (something to do with multi-byte characters afaik) 14:18:07 CFFI should handle these kinds of script, it just does not, and I guess patches are welcome ;) 14:19:05 I seem to remember something like that with two kinds of curses, just like terminfo and termcap being two different ways to do the same thing, which explode in your face at the wrong moment. 14:19:25 (cffi:load-foreign-library "libncurses.so.5") 14:20:28 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@nat-128-84-124-0-571.cit.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 14:20:34 Fare: That worked fine 14:21:10 remove the /lib64 from wherever it was specified in the sources. 14:21:53 ok. Does quicklisp store the src it downloads somewhere I can go and do such an edit? 14:23:10 dists? Is that quicklisp lingo for systems? 14:23:12 -!- peterhil- [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 14:23:33 Cymew: a dist is a set of projects. 14:24:00 Cymew: you can M-. into the quicklisp source if you like. It's usually better to put a local copy in ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ - it will be preserved even after updates. 14:24:18 There isn't an easy way at the moment to find the best way to get the upstream version for that purpose, though 14:24:28 Thanks 14:24:48 I have just tried to use quicklisp and is not very familiar with it yet 14:26:50 Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:27:33 ikki [~ikki@189.139.11.200] has joined #lisp 14:28:32 alvis [~user@tx-184-6-176-254.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:21 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@nat-128-84-124-0-571.cit.cornell.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:36:11 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@nat-128-84-124-0-571.cit.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 14:36:28 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:36:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:36:36 -!- stokachu [~stokachu@50.58.87.197] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 14:37:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:37:58 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@nat-128-84-124-0-571.cit.cornell.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 14:39:59 acieroid` [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 14:40:46 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:58 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:59 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:41:38 Trying to recycle the cCLan mailing-list, I get "The cclan list has moved to 14:41:38 http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/asdf-devel. Please post there instead" 14:41:49 not what I was expecting. 14:42:05 -!- swilde [~wilde@aktaia.intevation.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:42:07 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 14:42:16 stokachu [~stokachu@50.58.87.197] has joined #lisp 14:42:32 so, cCLan is officially dead, it seems. 14:43:04 -!- user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:43:27 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:44:32 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@nat-128-84-124-0-571.cit.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 14:46:14 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:46:19 surrounder [~surrounde@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 14:49:14 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:53:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.11.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:55:14 Q: Arnesi matcher specifies :conc-name on struct empty as || rather than "", which ABCL chokes on. Anyone know why it might be done this way? 14:55:32 Also, is ABCL right, or Arnesi? 14:55:56 rpg: defstruct says it takes a string designator, and || designates "" 14:56:10 I don't know why arnesi uses that, but it's valid. 14:56:11 Xach: OK, so it's ABCL that is wrong here. 14:56:23 -!- codeknit [~codeknit@triband-mum-120.60.57.132.mtnl.net.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:56:43 one more step on the road to perfection 14:56:47 rpg: are you still using fare-matcher? 14:57:30 Fare: Sorry -- meant to respond to your email. That's a "yes and no." There's a code library that has fare-matcher in it, but that code is dormant and not being run right now. 14:57:52 Fare: so not actively replacing fare-matcher, but could later. 14:58:18 rpg: OK. I'm planning on having fare-matcher removed from quicklisp after weblocks migrates to optima. 14:59:13 I've migrated all my code to use optima -- same general user-visible API, much better internals -- with a few remaining issues being worked on before it's declared uniformly better. 15:01:44 Xach: will there be an attic of retired/rejected quicklisp projects? 15:01:53 There might. 15:02:25 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.70.211] has joined #lisp 15:04:04 Fare: we keep local copies of the source for all the libraries, anyway -- not trying to push quicklisp as our solution for library maintenance.... 15:04:52 rpg: of course, as should you. My point is that fare-matcher is officially not supported anymore, except by saying "please use optima instead". 15:05:06 *rpg* finds it's his day to file bugreports as side-effect from CL-JSON maintenance: first darcs and now ABCL.... 15:05:14 brown` [user@nat/google/x-toutbejsiepvmuub] has joined #lisp 15:05:33 Fare: Thanks. I do appreciate your trying to reach out to us as users. Wish there was a better path to keep our library copies up-to-date.... 15:06:35 old fare-matchers will be available from quicklisp in perpetuity. hopefully. 15:08:29 Fare: I applaud your attempt to winnow the chaff from the CL library granary... Question: what's the forum for having the discussions you want? 15:08:40 (about library consolidation) 15:09:25 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:11:42 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: trivial-irc-0.0.3] 15:13:00 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 15:13:08 rpg: Finding the right venue is a topic of discussion this morning. 15:13:17 rpg: I don't know of anything existing that seems all that suitable. 15:13:17 -!- dab [~dab@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:13:34 i'm not sure whether pro is all that unsuitable, at least for starters 15:13:41 Xach: The only thing I could come up with was comp.lang.lisp, which I dread returning to. 15:13:50 rpg: pro@ is a good place 15:14:00 I don't think that's suitable. 15:14:05 lispforum.com? 15:14:14 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:34 fiat, and a single convenient download. 15:14:35 drewc was looking for a good new mission for common-lisp.net - maybe that could be it. 15:14:36 *rpg* doesn't successfully parse "pro"? 15:14:36 Xach: why not ? 15:14:45 rpg: pro@common-lisp.net 15:15:27 -!- niels2 [~niels@p4FD6CC1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:15:33 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@nat-128-84-124-0-571.cit.cornell.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:16:40 fe[nl]ix: I think there's too much chaff for meaningful sustained discussion on a single topic. 15:18:20 Thanks. I did not know about that mailing list. 15:18:39 Experience tells me interested people will make informal working groups via CC and repos for specific issues, and will at some point report back, anyway. Or things will fail because group design doesn't. 15:19:39 -!- acieroid` is now known as acieroid 15:19:57 I'd be interested in some consolidation of documentation libraries. This seems like an area that is particularly thick with 70% solutions. 15:20:16 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-171-154.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:21:07 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:49 add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-97-242.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 15:21:54 so then, shall I make a new mailing list ? 15:23:32 Forums are generally horrible, but they do provide a better grouping of topics.... 15:24:07 -!- Kvakz is now known as Kvaks 15:24:08 Having a discussion topic mixed with other topics in a mailing list leads to unenviable groveling over multiple months of archive pages.... 15:24:14 email too, as long as you're using a MUA with proper threading support 15:24:24 i.e. not gmail 15:24:40 or most web clients 15:25:31 fe[nl]ix: Right, but that doesn't help outsiders who want to catch up on the discussion. I suppose one could have a mailing list that would kick off the discussions and then move to different working group structures, as pkhuong suggests. 15:25:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:26:10 rpg: gmane does that 15:26:13 last time I researched web forum things (for an unrelated matter) I found a phpBB<->nntp gateway, which might be the best of N worlds 15:26:17 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:26:21 make a mailing list, then http://gmane.org/subscribe.php 15:26:28 exactly 15:26:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:26:33 default options outsiders can post and stuff 15:26:38 Advertise on Fare's web page? 15:26:42 built-in search, everyone happy 15:26:44 ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 15:26:47 (in the blog post?) 15:26:48 or use google group 15:26:56 gmane also allows posting from the browser for those who want to catch up 15:27:01 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@nat-128-84-124-0-571.cit.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 15:27:36 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003502.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:07 Eventually something like a wiki would be nice, to allow formulation of a set of desired features.... 15:32:55 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@nat-128-84-124-0-571.cit.cornell.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:33:19 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 15:33:25 for what it's worth, I would only expect large amounts of infrastructure to be necessary (mailing lists, wiki, etc) when it is crystal clear that there is momentum 15:33:33 before that, there will be a lot of talk and no action 15:33:42 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.13.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:33:55 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:04 and more fragmentation is certainly not helping the cause either 15:34:38 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 15:35:26 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-73.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:35:36 masak [masak@feather.perl6.nl] has joined #lisp 15:36:42 cic_ [~connolly@Catnip.AI.SRI.COM] has joined #lisp 15:38:08 I am a #perl6 regular with my fingers in some of the Perl 6 implementations. I'd like to ask someone a question about macros and hygiene. there are details, but my question is this: why is a big deal made out of achieving hygiene -- why isn't hygiene in macros comparable to hygiene in closures? 15:38:45 masak: you'll have to talk to people in #scheme. common lisp does not have hygienic macros, and #lisp is about common lisp 15:38:54 oh, indeed. 15:38:59 thanks for the kind reply. :) 15:39:22 masak: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3236789642671151@naggum.net.html is an article i like. 15:39:41 thank you. will read. 15:39:44 this dirty crows ts ts ......lol 15:39:45 wbooze, memo from pjb: (defun sum (min max sum) (if (= min max) (+ min sum) (sum (1+ min) max (+ min sum)))) 15:40:38 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.53.114] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:40:58 botsnack! 15:41:03 erm 15:41:16 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:41:50 i discovered eli's site 15:41:55 we need a gui interface based on html5 and gtk that allows lusers to visually construct macros! yes! yes! 15:42:25 well scip translations....haven't looked yet, i tried todo some on my own, i find the consing ones difficult to translate to proper tail-recursive forms..... 15:43:09 maybe i'll get the hang of it sometime....i just hesitate to look it up lol 15:43:56 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:44:21 Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 15:46:27 clarkema_ [U2FsdGVkX1@ma.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 15:46:42 -!- clarkema_ is now known as phrixos_ 15:46:58 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 15:47:47 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:48:04 Can anyone posit why (subtypep (type-of *foo*) 'dom:element) => T but (typep *foo* 'dom:element) => nil ? 15:48:40 I have a typecase that used to work but now doesnt because (presumably) the typep check is returning nil 15:48:47 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 15:48:49 -!- Kvaks is now known as Kvakz 15:49:25 bobbysmith0071: was the typecase compiled before dom:element was redefined? 15:49:48 -!- masak [masak@feather.perl6.nl] has left #lisp 15:50:35 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:52:02 it shouldnt have been... *foo* is rune-dom:element (a particular implementation of dom:element whose parent chain has dom:element in it), we have tried recompiling the typecase in question (which didnt fix it) and running the subtypep and typep in the repl and we still get that subtypep is T and typep is nil 15:52:16 did you try (typep 'dom-element *foo*) ? 15:52:40 bobbysmith0071: can you paste a test case? 15:53:47 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@37.28.151.28] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:54:28 well it works on my local server and fails in production... so not easily I was mostly hoping that the subtypep/typep disagreement was something that had been run across before and with a known answer... otherwise I will have to work out a minimized test case 15:55:23 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.13.68] has joined #lisp 15:56:17 wbooze: the arguments to that form seem to be in the wrong order... unless I am misreading clhs 15:56:41 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 15:56:55 I believe that will throw and error about # not being a valid type specifier 15:57:16 yep yep, you right, mine is wrong order..... 15:58:43 ok well a rebuild/republish fixed our issue... so transient software hate I guess... thanks anyways 15:59:00 Damn, it seems like my cffi problems wont be solved by changing any path in the code. Looks like cl-ncurses is broken with my combination of os and sbcl. 15:59:40 i hope it's not a circularity issue your bobbysmith 16:00:43 bitonic [~user@wavelan25-84.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:02:09 wbooze: I dont think so... the typecase in question had been working for months before the publish... and is working again after deleting all fasls and rebuilding, so I have to guess that it was just an invalid fasl load or something... 16:02:42 I had just never run across a type heirarchy where subtypep and typep disagreed before 16:02:51 aah 16:03:54 bobbysmith0071: that's "not possible" (well, subtypep could return nil, nil) 16:04:30 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:53 pkhuong: that was my thought exactly and thus my distress 16:04:57 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:05:25 ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:25 bitonic` [~user@wavelan132.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:06:55 -!- bitonic [~user@wavelan25-84.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:07:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:08:00 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:09:02 Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:09:08 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:11:26 Thra11 [~thrall@15.154.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:04 -!- bitonic` [~user@wavelan132.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:14:53 bitonic` [~user@wavelan132.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:15:11 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 16:17:01 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.213] has joined #lisp 16:18:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:20:26 linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:20:41 Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:20:51 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:17 hah! 16:21:24 ikki [~ikki@189.139.11.200] has joined #lisp 16:21:33 cl-blapack has an SBCL version check that broke when 1.1.0 came out 16:21:52 https://github.com/blindglobe/cl-blapack/blob/master/features.lisp 16:22:06 It now thinks it's working on a buggy SBCL again. 16:22:54 -!- asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:49 -!- booguie [~booguie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:34 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:27:47 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-000-185.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:50 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:29:38 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:07 bitonic`` [~user@laptop98.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:30:26 -!- bitonic` [~user@wavelan132.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:32:04 SLIME seems to leave around ACL lisp processes after sayoonara. Anyone else seeing this? 16:35:44 -!- Kvakz is now known as Kvaks 16:36:03 -!- paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has left #lisp 16:36:07 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:36:51 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-250-140.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:51 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has left #lisp 16:40:16 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-fxuybbsqpyqlavxt] has joined #lisp 16:43:19 Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:46 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 16:44:09 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 16:44:23 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-fxuybbsqpyqlavxt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:44:49 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:45:06 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@67-5-194-70.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:37 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.13.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:48:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:49:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:51:27 CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:50 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:53:59 -!- Kvaks is now known as Kvakz 16:59:17 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-195-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:35 Xach: did you tell Tony? 17:04:09 mm.. what do people use for database cruft with hunchentoot? 17:04:51 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:44 ams: what kind of database ? 17:05:59 and what does hunchentoot have to do with databases ? 17:06:08 for storing lusers, and luser data 17:06:21 fe[nl]ix: web cruft 17:06:23 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@67-5-194-70.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 17:10:31 ams: that's not the kind of databas, that's what's in it ;) do you want an sql database, a document store, a triple store, persistent objects, ... 17:10:45 -!- arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:11:16 do really people have a deficiency in reading skills today? 17:11:43 why so arrogant, ams? 17:11:45 i was making a general query over what people use, for whatever reasons, i was not asking specifically for what would be a good pick for whatever. 17:11:49 -!- dunib [~dunib@203-59-112-141.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:11:49 ams: if you want help, you should answer the question. if you don't understand the question, you should say so too 17:12:00 i didn't ask for help. 17:12:04 right 17:12:07 dunib [~dunib@203-59-112-141.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 if you don't ask for help, you should phrase your questions in a way that gets the message through, not ask for help 17:12:43 ams: oh right, i misinterpreted the question mark 17:12:47 i was curious over what database cruft people used. simple as that. 17:12:49 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:15 guaqua, welcome to my ignore list. 17:13:21 wow 17:13:22 iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 17:13:28 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:13:28 achievement unlocked 17:13:33 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:13:53 guaqua: you shouldn't care, ams does it to just about anyone. he's from the old ignorant generation of lispers. 17:14:13 slyrus: not yet 17:14:20 madnificent: well, it is a question mark for a reason, cause it is a question, maybe there is a help mark in unicode, i don't know, but my usage of a question mark was specifically cause it was a question =) 17:14:43 well, i've been following this channel a bit more lately and have noticed his toxic attitude towards others 17:15:22 ams: i use bknr-datastore, i have an in-house triple-store and a soon-to-be-published document-store. i've also built fridge a dom, but i think i'd advise postmoderns objects instead (depends on what you want, but they're likely more feature-packed). i've also used chillax in one thing, to see what it did, so that happened. probably some others too. the list grows quite long. 17:15:30 ams: now stop being an ass 17:15:52 madnificent: you wouldn't love me anymore if i did that; thanks for the answer. 17:16:18 ams: yes i would. you destroy the comfy feeling of #lisp 17:16:27 madnificent: #lisp was never comfy. 17:16:36 greetings folks! 17:16:55 hello pnpuff 17:17:08 hello madnificent 17:17:14 ams: it used to be. then you came along 17:17:23 *madnificent* stops 17:17:43 madnificent: so since the beginning of time =) 17:17:54 FWIW I agree with madnificent 17:18:15 slyrus: ok, now i have sent a bug report 17:20:28 "The old ignorant generation of Lisp users." That's classic! 17:20:33 slyrus: do you use cl-blapack? 17:21:03 Xach: no, I've looked at it and in a former life would probably have used it if it existed then... 17:21:32 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:21:45 Xach: I think common-lisp stat still depends on it, so it's definitely not dead. 17:21:46 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:23:03 *Xach* checks (ql:who-depends-on "org.middleangle.cl-blapack") 17:25:45 booguie [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:52 Xach: when you releasing a new one? 17:30:05 *maxm-* finishing up cl-fam, gonna put in inclusion req 17:30:24 just need to write README 17:30:36 -!- bitonic`` [~user@laptop98.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:31:33 maxm-: next weekend probably. 17:31:37 i mean this coming weekend. 17:32:37 10th or 11th. 17:33:24 maxm-: fam the SGI thing? 17:36:18 its included on linux since forever too 17:36:30 pretty nice coz it uses kernel notificaiton on it, rather then polling 17:37:06 thanks to cffi only took like a day to write nice wrapper 17:37:15 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:37:17 Does it build on the existing inotify libraries or is it from scratch? 17:37:26 it uses libfam 17:38:14 which itself connects to famd, which is a daemon that does actual monitoring, teh way I understand it uses dnotify on local filesystems, and polling on network ones 17:38:33 dnotify ist tot 17:38:48 bc2 [~derk@unlv-nat-131-216-14-39.dhcp.unlv.edu] has joined #lisp 17:38:53 *maxm-* thought fam/famd was included into everything.. I know suse, redhat, debian all have it 17:39:06 amarok uses it to watch for music collection changes 17:40:50 maxm-: I haven't run famd or gamin for a long time 17:41:07 *jasom* just uses inotify for stuff like that 17:41:08 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.213] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:42:03 /me now feels stupid 17:42:03 17:42:06 paul0 [~paulo@177.42.34.46] has joined #lisp 17:42:08 doh 17:42:21 *maxm-* now feels stupid, I thought fam was the official API since amarok used that 17:42:24 don't feel bad! retrocomputing is popular among some 17:42:42 is there existing lisp lib for inotify? 17:43:03 maxm-: google finds 2 17:43:25 there are two in quicklisp 17:43:27 both of which are listed here: http://www.cliki.net/System%20programming 17:43:35 note that inotify is linux-specific whereas fam is theoretically portable 17:43:36 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 17:43:39 con-sol-i-date! 17:43:42 cl-inotify and stassats-inotify 17:43:53 dunno if anyone's bothered to write a fam implementation for eg kqueue though 17:44:11 df_: is there a fam that is built ontop of inotify? 17:45:23 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 17:45:31 -!- brown` [user@nat/google/x-toutbejsiepvmuub] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:45:35 *maxm-* thought dnotify and inotify were kind of same thing, apparently dnotify was an older effort, and is superceded by inotify 17:45:43 *maxm-* feels old and confused, this is not sparta 17:45:47 no idea, I kind of assumed that any sane modern implementation would use it 17:45:58 maxm-: that is my understanding too 17:46:23 yeah, no kidding. I was about to say "inotify is pretty new" but saw it's been included in vanilla since 2005 17:46:58 that's pretty new in lisp timescales! 17:47:05 ah, there is something called "gamin", which provides fam compatible libfam.so, and uses inotify 17:47:29 it makese sense that gamin would be built on inotify; that's part of gnome I think? 17:47:49 apparently my system has both installed, and weirdly rpm -ql /usr/lib64/libfam.so lists both gamin and libfam rpms as owning it 17:48:45 brown` [user@nat/google/x-tkfqzitlnytddfhw] has joined #lisp 17:49:07 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:51:12 APIs for monitoring state-changes seem to multiply compared to other OS system calls (poll,select,epoll,...) and (dnotify,inotify,fam,...) 17:51:14 madnificent: tried using rugsack? 17:51:25 I have an /usr/lib*/libfam.so.0 not installed :) 17:51:41 fam and gamin, funny french joke :) 17:52:02 well just uninstalled fam, gonna try if it still works 17:52:12 dim: I'll have to ask my wife at lunch 17:52:30 Mon gamin a fa[i]m. 17:52:53 fam is spoken the same way as "femme" (woman), and a "gamin" is argo for kid 17:54:31 bitonic`` [~user@dyn901-229.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:54:43 bxx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 17:55:35 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-105-210.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:36 jasom: I guess that's why freebsd built a single api to rule them all 17:56:49 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:57:07 not a particularly easy to use one though 17:57:07 sohakes [~sohakes@186.207.102.31] has joined #lisp 17:57:25 -!- bitonic`` is now known as bitonic 17:59:28 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 17:59:42 -!- erann [~erann@27.Red-83-33-82.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: erann] 18:00:29 ok still works, unistalled fam-server, killed famd, and cl-fam still works and returns changes 18:00:41 so I guess libfam.so.0 provided with gamin works fine 18:01:11 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.159] has joined #lisp 18:02:35 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:02:46 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.215] has joined #lisp 18:03:40 heh guess no one used cl-inotify for a long time 18:03:54 quickloading it gives "bt nickname already used for bordeax-threads" 18:04:14 so I think still gonna publish cl-fam thing, since already put in work prettyfying it 18:04:53 maxm-: yeah, amyone with gnome will have gamin 18:05:33 speaking of nicknames: i had this thought earlier that one would really only need a modified in-package that sets up the nicknames for the reader. it does not really seem necessary to put the nicknames into the package definition at all, as it only affects the reader 18:05:56 does that make sense? 18:06:51 yes.. I had some pseudocode round half a year ago about "late-binding reader" idea 18:06:58 what if you're using 2 packages that want to use the same nickname for their dependencies, and thos dependencies are not the same? 18:07:30 dim: as my scheme would only affect read time, there would be no problem with that 18:07:57 dim: of course, one would have to specify nicknames in each file, that might put off some (but not me, as i use one package per file anyway) 18:09:40 H4ns: can't the system which loads the necessary files (like asdf) handle it based on previously loaded data (like something in package.lisp) 18:10:11 madnificent: why would that be better? 18:11:32 it would work in situations where the package is defined in multiple files. 18:12:02 though there's certainly something to say for nicknaming the package in the file itself 18:12:22 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:12:41 madnificent: i think this could be implemented on top of an in-package* 18:13:08 -!- trebor_dki [~user@kvpn.lbf.fraunhofer.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:13:29 madnificent: so in-package* would be the lowest-level building block which just sets up the reader, and higher-level functionality would use that to implement project-wide or package wide nicknames. 18:13:31 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.159] has joined #lisp 18:17:55 H4ns: that could easily become a popular library 18:18:25 -!- christoph_debian [~user@2001:a60:f01c:0:42::1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:26 madnificent: not easily, because it requires implementation specific reader patches. 18:19:01 you could provide a reader macro for those lisps that don't have the patches 18:19:27 madnificent: no. it requires modification or replacement of the actual reader used by the implementation. 18:19:27 -!- axion1 is now known as axion 18:19:32 snearch [~snearch@f053010212.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:21:03 -!- brown` is now known as reb` 18:21:07 madnificent: this is because the cl reader has no api that would allow hooking into symbol lookup at read time. 18:21:21 H4ns: you already have idea how it will work 18:21:44 the reader will consult some global value when reading each form? 18:21:58 The reader already does that, in the presence of a package prefix. 18:22:08 Using find-package or some internal similar function. 18:22:26 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-qldqqzfbubsyqohe] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:22:26 Xach: doesn't intern actually do that? 18:22:27 the package lookup function in the reader needs to consult an additional table. 18:22:33 lets call it resove-prefix 18:22:35 or at least in SBCL, I think 18:22:47 p_l: INTERN does not deal with prefixes. 18:22:50 i've looked at ccl and sbcl, it is really straightforward. 18:22:52 resolve-package-prefix 18:23:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:24:12 i think in order to make this into a cdr that has a chance to see some adoption, the smallest possible change needs to be found that solves the problem. i'm not sure if what i'm proposing is that smalles possible change, though. 18:24:53 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:26 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.171.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:25:32 Jeaye [~Jeaye@gateway/tor-sasl/jeaye] has joined #lisp 18:29:18 Xach: well, intern takes as argument the package in which to intern the symbol, and I vaguely recall SBCL's reader hoisting the job to intern part, though maybe it involved a find-package... would have to check 18:29:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:29:58 jewel [~jewel@105.237.24.33] has joined #lisp 18:30:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:34:03 add^_^ [~add^_@m90-130-238-204.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 18:34:19 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-97-242.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:34:20 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 18:39:36 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:41:46 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:45:05 antgreen [~user@out-on-172.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 18:45:19 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:45:24 H4ns: maybe the smallest possible change to lisp implementation is to honor variable CDR78:*PACKAGE-PREFIX-RESOLVER* 18:45:47 when this variable is not null, then it must be a function lisp reader calls to resolve package prefixes 18:45:49 nyef [~nyef@c-76-119-183-159.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:57 antonv: that sounds good 18:46:09 on top of this we may experiment and build different syntaxes 18:46:15 antonv: on top of that, defpackage*/in-package* could be implemented. 18:46:50 lisp implementations supporting this could put :cdf78 into features 18:47:24 :cdr78 (78 is of course just an example) 18:47:29 sure 18:49:04 how to you think, should cdf78:*package-prefix-resolver* be just a function, or it's better to be a list of functions? 18:49:22 each given a chance to resolve prefix 18:49:31 so that user can push/pop into this list 18:50:08 maybe a list would be better, to allow composing of libraries that use different package naming schemes 18:51:07 yes, although I am not sure (the drawback would be overcomplication) 18:51:19 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-bsppbuxtvqzwckje] has joined #lisp 18:51:41 H4ns: make it a best practice to punt to the previous hook. 18:52:05 pkhuong: that sounds sane. 18:52:24 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:52:35 i'm starting to write up a cdr 18:53:23 H4ns: there are tons of use cases where that's not enough, but that's the sort of thing that can be fixed if the CDR ever gains traction, and we have real code to guide the effort. 18:53:43 ok. 18:54:29 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 18:58:52 -!- pjb [~t@vil93-14-88-184-74-97.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:59:46 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 19:03:41 H4ns: I like your in-package* idea 19:04:29 What's this? Package system games? 19:04:57 nyef: solving real world problems wrt package identification and nickname usage 19:05:20 you want the package to be unique, like org.nyef.my-lib, but you often want to use nicknames in your code 19:05:34 Oh. Okay, so nothing important. 19:05:41 if the package is responsible for its own nickname, collision risks are too high 19:06:54 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 19:07:26 What I want is to be able to refer to SYMBOLS by other names. Basically, :IMPORT-FROM (:AS "ORIGINAL-NAME" "NEW-NAME"). 19:07:41 nyef: +1. 19:08:23 The issue is that it breaks the reverse mapping, using the print-name of the symbol to try and find its identity in the current package. 19:08:56 Wait, why does that matter? 19:09:24 it breaks PRINT/READ 19:09:26 You mean, it would use the long package-prefixed name when printing expressions, rather than the short local name. 19:09:34 Makes print-read consistency harder to implement, yes. 19:09:38 it wouldn't *break* print/read, though 19:09:56 print/read should still work, but read/print wouldn't be 100% identical 19:10:24 to which I say: oh well, that isn't the case now, and it doesn't really matter. 19:10:40 We've been kicking around local package nicknames for years now, I think 19:10:51 it's high time there was some action on it 19:11:54 if FOOBAR:BAZ has a local alias in CL-USER "FROB", I say it's perfectly fine for it to print out as "FOOBAR:BAZ" instead of "FROB" 19:15:02 Mmm. Right now, it's just an idea I'm tossing around. As in, within the past day or so. 19:15:29 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:15:53 brudgers [~opera@68-119-80-136.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:34 dlowe: thats mostly just a macro/function to make a new package, with a new nickname, using to-be-nicknamed-package and exporting the same symbols correct? 19:18:38 -!- bc2 [~derk@unlv-nat-131-216-14-39.dhcp.unlv.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:18:48 http://paste.lisp.org/display/133561 19:19:25 bobbysmith0071: not at all. It would need a reader change 19:21:49 bc2 [~derk@unlv-nat-131-216-14-39.dhcp.unlv.edu] has joined #lisp 19:21:59 -!- CoverSlide [~richard@pool-173-55-83-220.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:02 H4ns: "Application code MY bind"? 19:22:13 CoverSlide [~richard@pool-173-55-83-220.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:18 "may", thanks. 19:23:38 H4ns: And does this extend to permitting the resolver to override the mapping for "KEYWORD" or "COMMON-LISP"? And is there a way for the resolver to forbid a lookup (to block access to, say, "SB-IMPL")? 19:24:08 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 19:25:07 erann [~erann@187.Red-79-154-73.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:08 If the resolver is permitted to override the mapping for CL, is there a way to override the override? That is, to be able to always get hold of CL:IN-PACKAGE if necessary? 19:25:10 nyef: this proposal leaves these possibilities open. the other possibility would be to have the implementation call the application-level resolver after it failed to resolve a name 19:25:21 H4ns: it's unclear what implementation must do when resolver returne NIL - signal an error or use it's default internal resolver function 19:25:26 nyef: i prefer the application to be able to supersede anything. 19:25:50 antonv: i'll specify that, thanks. 19:25:57 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:05 H4ns: I have to find my pseudo-code but I had a solution to this (portable one) 19:26:39 H4ns: So, if the resolver wishes to prevent direct access to "COMMON-LISP", is there a defined mechanism by which it may do so? 19:27:04 nyef: no. although that is a neat idea 19:27:07 I have a thought that it might be good for CDRs describe how they fit into CLHS structure 19:27:08 H4ns: basically the reader just hooks up everything in readtable, and reads all symbols as into its own temp package. At the same time it sets up all these symbols as both macros and symbol macros 19:27:25 -!- erann [~erann@187.Red-79-154-73.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:27:42 erann [~erann@59.Red-79-156-37.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:50 maxm-: that seems complicated enough to make me want to see working code. 19:27:54 the macroexpansion then can call generics, which could massage symbols on the fly, and return the "real" form, with all symbols inside resolved into their rightful packages 19:28:03 H4ns: It's essentially the idea of a "sandbox". You've got half of it there, why not the other half? 19:28:23 so that actual resolving of "blah:whatever" is done at macroexpansion time, and can be controlled by surrounding macro content 19:28:37 nyef: sure. i'm thinking that the resolver function can return an optional second value as T to prevent implementation-specific lookup from occuring. 19:29:38 jeti` [~user@p548EB102.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:55 Mmm... Somewhat inconsistent-seeming. Your return values are now (#) meaning a package, (NIL) meaning use the system lookup, and (NIL T) meaning throw an error? 19:30:49 could the resolver not throw the error? 19:31:05 That's more plausible to me, yes. 19:31:54 Except that some implementations may well like to have more information in their reader conditions than is easily available at that point. 19:32:26 why do you want to block access to some packages via this resolver? 19:32:27 Wait, what are we thinking? Why don't we have some equivalent to CALL-NEXT-METHOD here? 19:32:51 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-062-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:10 antonv: Because to disallow it would be a waste of a perfectly good opportunity to make CL sandboxes more plausible. 19:33:10 generic dispatch could be used for the whole thing, really 19:33:12 user can set different resolver and access any package he wants 19:33:26 AeroNotix [~xeno@cgo188.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:33:29 antonv: not if they cannot access the cdr12 package 19:33:33 Not if they can't get access to the resolver hook due to being blocked at the package system level. 19:35:16 I worry that package local nicknames is already non-trivial task. Mixing it with another problems makes it too complex 19:35:46 antonv: i would like to have the specification minimal and precise. if that allows sandboxing, it would not be bad. 19:35:53 generic dispatch on what (it has only one parameter - a string) 19:36:30 true, and mandating a keyword as the name designator sounds fishy 19:36:34 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:40 maybe an additional argument with the previous resolver? 19:37:11 I am also interested in sandboxing, but I am not qualified enough to think work on it (I even don't know what is the right place to hook into CL to allow reliable sandboxing) 19:37:13 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053010212.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:37:13 the implementation would supply its own resolver, and chaining would be done in the same fashion or no. 19:37:35 antonv: qualified symbols are a real show stopper for sandboxing. 19:37:48 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 19:37:59 Mandate a default resolver with a well-defined name that does the implementation-specific lookup, that a NIL return means "package not found", and that the resolver is responsible for calling the system resolver as needed. 19:38:05 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:38:13 btw, there is a project doing CL sandboxing: https://github.com/tlikonen/cl-eval-bot 19:38:15 This also allows one resolver to close over another if someone wants to get sneaky. 19:38:47 -!- erann [~erann@59.Red-79-156-37.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:39:05 so it would be up to the resolver to either call the previously set resolver (if any), the system resolver or return nil, right? 19:39:43 Yes. 19:39:57 me had to pause just a sec 19:40:01 And a sandboxing resolver could simply not call another resolver. 19:40:16 And the system resolver can be trivially implemented in terms of FIND-PACKAGE, I believe. 19:40:47 my thing was example: reader reads (defun x:blah (a b c)) as (tmp:x1 (tmp:x2 (tmp:x3 tmp:x4 tmp:x5))), remembering that x1 -> "defun" and x2 -> "x:blah", then it sets up all of these as macros and symbol macros. 19:40:58 nyef: find-package would call the cdr12 hook, so no. 19:41:13 Ah, okay. But same principle. 19:41:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:41:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:41:50 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 19:41:59 but this is only about reader 19:42:17 what if I do (cl:find-symbol "open" "cl") 19:42:29 ok question 19:42:35 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81.200.28.83] has joined #lisp 19:42:38 then "x1" macro, will run through some generics, default returning (cl:defun ,(macroexpand-all expand-innards)), and and so on... So basically you can implement (with-local-nickname), as a special variable, and a method on the resolver 19:42:39 antonv: right now it is. i think it should be specified for intern/find-symbol as well. 19:42:49 I have this bit of code, and while it produces the right output, it's like, destroying the input or something 19:42:59 but I've made a backup of the input 19:43:02 bc2: sort is destructive. 19:43:07 yeah 19:43:11 I made backups 19:43:22 but when I print the backups out, it prints the wrong thing out 19:43:22 http://paste.lisp.org/display/133562 19:43:38 and hook for sandboxing should work not on whole package level, but see individual symbols - in a sandbox cl:format is available, but cl:delete-directory is not 19:43:38 yes the spacing is awful and I suck.. I'm just throwing the kitchen sink at this trying to get it to work 19:43:43 am I making backups in the wrong way? 19:43:50 *maxm-* had that whole thing thought out, and was discussing it here around half year ago, can't find itnow 19:43:56 Mein auges! 19:44:20 Xach: "Meine Augen!" :) 19:44:20 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn901-229.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:44:42 Auf englisch, SVB 19:44:44 Blut strömt über meine Wangen! 19:45:21 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:41 clariprincess1 [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 19:46:14 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:47:18 am I doing something stupid in my let there that's, I dunno, making the backup actually a pointer ? 19:47:38 bc2: see COPY-LIST 19:47:44 ahhh 19:47:45 ok 19:47:52 nyef: http://paste.lisp.org/display/133561#1 19:48:40 So I would propose to not exclude sandboxing from consideration. I seems more realistic and efficient to try something for package local nicknames. If it works and practice reveale inconveniencess or other needs, later there might be another CDR, improving package prefix resolving and probably including some sandboxing support 19:48:45 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 19:48:45 that was it, thanks H4ns 19:48:55 I guess I was creating a pointer 19:48:59 that's the only thing that made sense 19:49:04 -!- clariprincess1 [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49:41 antonv: i agree to the extent that sandboxing should not be the primary consideration for this cdr 19:50:04 *maxm-* is wondering if anyone following his train of thought or he is just rambling.. 19:50:29 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:50:56 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51:12 maxm-: your proposal sounds like a hack for something that can be implemented easily when one has access to the implementation. 19:51:33 thing is you can't do it just in the reader 19:52:00 maxm-: no. you need to hook into the implementations' function that resolves a package name to an actual package. 19:52:27 H4ns: Looks good. You'll of course have to mention that a return of NIL means that the implementation should signal a package lookup error or whatever other logic applies. 19:52:30 maxm-: and, if you look at implementations, that is typically a very well-defined place in the code 19:52:37 nyef: ok. 19:53:02 clariprincess1 [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 19:53:35 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:54:53 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: catmtking] 19:55:05 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 19:55:08 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:55:27 what purpose serves introduction of CDR12:RESOLVE-PACKAGE-NAME ? 19:55:45 + NIL returned meaning error? 19:55:57 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:55:58 antonv: that is the sandboxing part of the proposal 19:56:09 antonv: do you think that would be too much? 19:56:30 I do not insist, but want to express a concern 19:56:35 do 19:57:04 does it really allow sandboxing? what about cl:find-symbol 19:57:07 H4ns: imho read time is too early.. My way would allow for (with-packages (cl alexandria) (when-let ())) and (with-packages (cl anaphora) (with-let ...)) to co-exist in the same code, and with-let would be resolved to the correctthing each time 19:57:16 coz resolving would be delayed until macroexpansion time 19:57:20 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-73.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:57:42 (above example assumes both anaphora and alexandria define their own when-let) 19:58:00 antonv: you are right, i need to find the right words for find-symbol and intern - they should use the application level resolver function as well. 19:58:24 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.11.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:58:27 it opens up whole new set of cool macro possibilities, that affect resolving of symbols in their lexical scope 19:58:32 maxm-: can you write the code that you have proposed? 19:58:41 I think so, have not tried 19:58:46 maxm-: i'm not interested in "cool" really. i'm interested in "workable" 19:59:11 closest starting point would be pjb's reader, he already reads and stores meta-data (for his reader its the file position of each symbol in original stream) 19:59:55 maxm-: i'll gladly shelve my effort if something else is there that works. 19:59:58 *maxm-* wants to say he'll go and write the proof of concept right away, but that would be false :-\ 20:00:15 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:00:29 if one does not finish up things you already started, don't start new stuff yet 20:00:29 i'll also not move forward with the cdr process before i've collected some opinions of implementors. no point in having a cdr that nobody is going to implement. 20:01:07 *maxm-* is not criticizing you proposal, just thought to throw my idea into the wind, see if people can definitely say "no this won't work" 20:01:32 maxm-: i find it too complicated to wrap my head around it, but that's just me. 20:04:08 H4ns: IMHO we are switching and confusing the goals. Initially it was package local nicknames, and now we think about sandboxing. It's a different task. 20:04:31 I don't see a reason to tie the solution of the task 1 with task 2 20:05:16 I mean more complex solution has less changes to be adopted 20:05:32 i understand that. it also needs more explaining. 20:05:55 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 20:06:01 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-231-47.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:06:06 i think i'm going to revise the text tomorrow and post it to some implementors to gather feedback. 20:06:38 The nice thing about using SBCL (or CCL, etc) is you can still have the CDR as a third-party source. It's just one that can patch the internals of the implementation. 20:06:56 *Xach* does that from time to time with local code 20:07:05 btw, another way to prevent particular packages from being used is to signal an error explicitly from *package-prefix-resolver* 20:07:11 Xach: sure. but this cdr really only makes sense when it is widely adopted. 20:07:36 I'm not so sure of that. 20:07:42 s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-195-201.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:07 Being widely adopted is good, but I think it could still be useful even if it worked only on SBCL. 20:08:23 Applications could benefit. 20:08:49 ferada [~ferada@dslb-094-219-064-073.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:00 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 20:10:23 -!- antgreen [~user@out-on-172.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:10:30 SBCL can be a nice springboard to start integration into more lisps 20:10:34 http://paste.lisp.org/display/133561#2 20:10:46 though I'd first like to see extensible sequences accepted 20:12:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:12:32 ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.69] has joined #lisp 20:13:19 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@p6fd90806.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:13:31 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:13:55 bobu [~bobu@APuteaux-652-1-98-155.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:19:00 -!- jewel [~jewel@105.237.24.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:20:21 H4ns: what do you think about signalling an error instead of returning NIL as a specifier that lisp implementation should signal an error 20:20:42 also, maybe *package-prefix-resolver* is not the best name now 20:20:50 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:02 it should be *package-name-resolver*, maybe 20:21:02 it was appropriate when we speak about reading names like pkg:some-symbol 20:21:25 yes, package-name-resolver looks better 20:21:37 i'm not sure about the error signaling, though. why would that be better? 20:22:33 ah, you mean have the resolver signal the error, let the implementation call its own resolver if NIL is returned? 20:22:48 antonv: Poor interaction for implementing FIND-PACKAGE in terms of the resolver, and if the implementation likes to provide more detail with its reader errors then the resolver won't know how to add the extra bits. 20:22:48 yes 20:23:08 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:23:10 yes 20:23:33 ok, maybe it's time to stop discussing these minor details for now 20:23:53 well, two symbols instead of one does matter, indeed 20:23:59 anyway, in most cases it will be hidden from programmer in some custom in-package* 20:25:09 -!- jeti` [~user@p548EB102.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:27:15 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 20:27:33 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:32:51 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:35:00 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:46 user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:36 does anyone knows what adds (check-*) as lisp keyword in warning face 20:40:56 emacs -Q does not have it, and I can't find it in any of my packages including slime 20:41:22 maxm-: slime-indentation 20:41:29 IIRC 20:41:34 ah ok, must have looked wrongly 20:44:01 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 20:46:11 ah the joy of being able to name functions (check-something) without them being ugly red 20:46:34 -!- bc2 [~derk@unlv-nat-131-216-14-39.dhcp.unlv.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:47:42 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:44 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:49:18 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-143-23.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:50 -!- brudgers [~opera@68-119-80-136.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com] has left #lisp 20:54:11 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@15.154.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 20:54:43 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 20:54:45 -!- clariprincess1 [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:55:51 -!- elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:56:48 bc2 [~derk@unlv-nat-131-216-14-39.dhcp.unlv.edu] has joined #lisp 20:57:03 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:57:05 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:57:05 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 20:57:05 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #lisp 20:57:52 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:59:52 m7w_ [~chatzilla@178.172.234.187] has joined #lisp 21:00:28 clariprincess1 [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 21:00:34 nowhere_man_ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-149-78.w90-48.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:00:36 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:01:23 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:01:32 -!- m7w_ is now known as m7w 21:03:43 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:04:01 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-78-61.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:05:45 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:05:46 -!- iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:06:41 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 21:07:18 erann [~erann@1.Red-83-61-34.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:45 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.13.68] has joined #lisp 21:09:20 ok I ran a program and it gives me an error, but how can I track down the line where the error happened? 21:09:38 I'm using gnu clisp 2.48 21:09:57 -!- bobu [~bobu@APuteaux-652-1-98-155.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:57 it gives me *** - FIRST: - is not a list 21:10:03 but I use FIRST in a lot of places, so... 21:10:17 then it tells me that ABORT :R1 Abort main loop 21:10:22 is an available restart 21:10:59 *Xach* has never learned how to use the clisp debugger, has only used slime debugger with SBCL 21:11:12 use backtrace to find out which function it is in? 21:11:36 ehu: Did you see the latest download stats? 21:11:46 Oddity [~Oddity@d75-156-92-175.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:46 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@d75-156-92-175.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:11:46 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 21:12:35 Xach: yea. was notified yesterday of the new listing. 21:12:41 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 21:12:51 -!- Kvakz is now known as Kvaks 21:13:05 -!- clariprincess1 [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:13:09 ok, backtrace works :) 21:13:10 thanks 21:13:15 Xach: I think we compile the top 10 projects without issues (would be nice to verify, actually) 21:13:38 anyone know a good utility library for doing things like renaming files portably? 21:14:05 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-156.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:35 *jasom* has too many files with the line #+ccl(rename-file source dest :if-exists :overwrite) and such 21:15:40 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:12 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:17:07 cl-fad maybe? (not sure, iolib would be my second guess, then alexandria maybe) 21:17:12 (ok I'm a n00b) 21:17:16 antonv: around? 21:17:40 ehu: yes, hi 21:17:54 antonv: your test system doesn't seem to want to load cffi, yet I understand from Mark (easye) that it should now be supported. 21:18:24 do I understand correctly from http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-test-grid/abcl-load-failures.html that CFFI blocks 564 systems? 21:19:10 So that fixing CFFI should open up a whole lot of new possibilities (and errors)? 21:19:28 ehu: right, it blocks these systems 21:19:33 dim: osicat and fad both do things similar to what I want, but neither has file-renaming builtin 21:19:36 wow. 21:19:40 that's HUGE 21:20:01 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: .] 21:20:13 ehu: if you click CFFI link in the report, you can see the error 21:20:47 I did. There seems to be an issue with a variable named URI... 21:22:02 dim: and iolib.os (I forgot about that one, thanks) doesn't seem to have it either 21:22:11 (no idea what to do about that, but building to test) 21:22:11 add^_^ [~add^_@m37-2-157-184.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:22:25 I've tried now 21:22:30 jasom: sorry about that, can't help you much then 21:23:07 ehu: I have revision 14228 21:23:18 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-143-23.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:43 ehu: can't load JNA, sec I will check if I have JNA installed on this machine 21:23:51 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-143-23.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:54 -!- lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:24:03 ehu: (at least the error with URI doesn't happen anymore) 21:24:35 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-238-204.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:24:35 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:24:54 antonv: ok. jna should be picked up if it's installed. 21:25:31 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 21:26:04 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:26:40 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 21:28:06 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-143-23.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:32:39 ehu: jna was absent, now I downloaded it and added to classpath using (java:add-to-classpath) 21:33:25 but can't quickload :cffi 21:33:38 looks like it tries to download it with maven... 21:33:44 (if I am not mistaken) 21:35:04 clariprincess1 [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 21:35:18 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:35:25 -!- Kvaks is now known as Kvakz 21:35:29 hmm. if it's part of the jar path, that shouldn't happen. 21:35:29 -!- Kvakz is now known as Kvaks 21:35:33 ehu: it looks like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/133564 21:36:14 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:48 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:40:37 antonv: looks like loading through maven indeed. 21:40:58 however, that should only happen when it's not part of the classpath. 21:40:59 ehu: maybe my java:add-to-classpath didn't worked? 21:41:18 (meantime I am rebuilding the latest revision) 21:41:52 can you add it to the classpath in the ./abcl startup script? 21:41:59 maybe it's the wrong classpath? 21:45:24 -!- Kvaks is now known as Kvakz 21:45:27 -!- Kvakz is now known as Kvaks 21:45:43 contrib/mvn/jna.asd has this code: (jss:find-java-class "com.sun.jna.Native") 21:45:52 I've tried, it works 21:45:56 the class is found 21:46:11 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 21:47:23 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:49:28 ehu: http://paste.lisp.org/display/133564#2 21:50:42 -!- bc2 [~derk@unlv-nat-131-216-14-39.dhcp.unlv.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:51:06 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-062-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:51:23 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:24 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-102-77-158.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:34 -!- Kvaks is now known as Kvakz 21:53:38 -!- Kvakz is now known as Kvaks 21:53:41 -!- Kvaks is now known as Kvakz 21:53:45 -!- Kvakz is now known as Kvaks 21:53:49 -!- Kvaks is now known as Kvakz 21:56:29 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-143-23.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:33 -!- _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu moved back to savannah ~] 21:59:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:30 dbeest [~Deso@82-69-100-73.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:00:10 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:02:35 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:06:55 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:08:09 -!- clariprincess1 [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:09:07 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 22:18:14 bobu [~bobu@APuteaux-652-1-98-155.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:19:19 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:20:05 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:26:09 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27:32 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.70.149.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27:33 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-195-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:27:34 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28:06 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@cgo188.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:29:14 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.13.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:29:15 phao [~phao@177.160.125.104] has joined #lisp 22:29:58 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-195-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:10 Trying to play with the lparallel example: http://tapoueh.org/blog/2012/11/04-Concurrent-Hello.html  I realise lp and lq are aliases for lparallel and lparallel.queue. 22:32:25 Can I tell quicklisp to create those aliases for me when quickloading lparallel? 22:32:27 asmer [~asmer@94.179.227.3.pool.3g.utel.ua] has joined #lisp 22:32:35 hi all 22:32:48 anyone know how to slot-value with string slot name? 22:33:08 i. e. (slot-value object "field") instead of (slot-value object 'field) 22:33:11 antoszka: I've packaged it on github at https://github.com/dimitri/go-hello-world 22:33:16 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 22:33:27 asmer: make a symbol from the string. 22:33:37 Bike, yeah 22:33:49 but I've tryed some ways and no luck :( 22:34:04 (find-symbol string whatever-package) 22:34:08 asmer: or use the MOP to create a class with slot-names being strings. 22:34:19 dim: Ah, thanks. Also, I tried running it from the REPL, (HELLO-WORLD 4) worked correctly, then I run it the second time and it seems to hang. 22:34:20 i've tried read-from-string and make-symbol 22:34:46 antoszka: I've been fixing a bug there 22:35:17 basically once you end-kernel you can't use it anymore, and the code I made was crappy about that point 22:35:27 I should probably update the blog entry again 22:35:30 asmer: make-symbol makes an uninterned symbol, and read-from-string is being affected by *package*. 22:35:44 asmer: you may need to upcase the string 22:35:47 dim: I think you should, I just posted it happily to a mailing list :) 22:35:56 hehe 22:35:57 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:36:00 anyone can create working sample? 22:36:02 (or you could read the string instead) 22:36:58 asmer: sec 22:37:14 (defclass foo () (bar)) (make-instance 'foo) (slot-boundp * (find-symbol (string-upcase "bar") :cl-user)) => NIL 22:37:24 Bike: better use read-from-string 22:37:32 Bike: to avoid casing issues 22:38:20 asmer: http://paste.lisp.org/display/133565 22:38:50 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 22:39:38 dim: So is the code on github working, or are you still fixing it? 22:41:28 antoszka: article update on tapoueh.org, updates will make their way to planet lisp later if history is any guide here 22:41:30 madnificent, thank you... i'm trying to add single-quote and get fail 22:41:43 antoszka: the github code is working fine 22:41:49 asmer: what reference are you learning from? 22:41:54 asmer: trying to add single quote? 22:41:58 antoszka: the current tapoueh.org version too 22:42:14 cool, thx 22:42:39 and pkhuong question is important, don't learn CL from me or my articles, I'm a noob, my articles try to get you willing to learn, nothing past that stage :) 22:42:52 yes, "'bar" instead of "bar" 22:42:53 -!- linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 22:43:03 oh, and I can't distinguish nicks here 22:43:08 time to get a sleep I see 22:43:08 asmer: ah, #'read-from-string doesn't #'eval 22:43:33 asmer: why would you use "'bar"???? 22:43:41 asmer: so it just converts what you enter in the string as primitives, basically. in this case, a symbol. 22:43:59 ehu: he assumed a RPL instead of a REPL :) 22:44:15 madnificent: :-) 22:44:29 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75cc44.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:46:59 -!- bobu [~bobu@APuteaux-652-1-98-155.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:12 ehu, i'm wrong, yeah. also have another fail - fixed with package name 22:47:14 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:50:23 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:51:21 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:52:12 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:56:15 Thra11 [~thrall@15.154.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:43 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-bsppbuxtvqzwckje] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:59:20 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:00:06 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:02:12 _tca [~tca@thewired.me] has joined #lisp 23:03:20 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:03:38 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:05:11 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:05:26 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 23:05:53 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003502.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:06:16 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:06:36 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:07:23 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-193-216.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:07:37 -!- phao [~phao@177.160.125.104] has quit [Quit: Not Here] 23:08:04 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:08:24 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 23:08:25 -!- asmer [~asmer@94.179.227.3.pool.3g.utel.ua] has quit [Quit: ] 23:13:53 francogrex [~user@109.130.145.78] has joined #lisp 23:14:18 How to know which packages are loaded in a lisp image? 23:14:43 (list-all-packages) 23:14:53 ok great 23:15:02 though you may be confusing packages and systems. 23:16:18 maybe also systems. Is there a way to know which asdfs are loaded? 23:16:41 Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 23:18:37 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 23:24:21 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-000-185.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:24:38 hmm I forgot how do you do lisp code block in README.md? 23:24:41 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:26:39 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.145.78] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:26:55 maxm-: Github? 23:27:30 erann: yea found it already, its ```common-lisp 23:27:37 :-) 23:28:34 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-143-23.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:08 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-143-23.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:38 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 23:31:11 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:33:37 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-143-23.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:36:21 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-143-23.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:00 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:07 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:37:07 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 23:38:35 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 23:40:51 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-elavufuzgnzcoazj] has joined #lisp 23:42:34 Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:30 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:46:56 Hephy [~Hephithon@95-153-6-165.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has joined #lisp 23:47:09 Cheap Twitter Followers, Facebook Likes & Much more @ http://www.ifollow.us/ 23:47:22 -!- Hephy [~Hephithon@95-153-6-165.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:47:38 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:47:42 "peer: Please camp his respawn point as well. Thank you." 23:49:41 -!- wizard` [~user@eth900.qld.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:58 wizard` [~user@eth900.qld.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:02 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 23:52:57 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:54:26 ok, submitted cl-fam to quicklisp if anyone cares https://github.com/7max/cl-fam 23:55:34 maxm-: does it work on Windows? 23:56:11 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 23:57:16 don't know, if windows has "fam.h" and can find libfam.so, then I guess it would.. I think gnome has windows port, if so it should have libfab.so 23:57:21 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-143-23.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:39 its just a tiny wrapper, not something big.. like 200 lines 23:57:56 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-143-23.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:58 maxm-: right, I meant to ask whether libfam was ported to windows. 23:58:06 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:41 cygwin seems to have both gamin and fam, so it will probably work with cygwin provided CLISP 23:59:57 justinmc_ [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-143-23.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:58 cygwin has gamin? wow.