00:00:07 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:00:16 rvirding_ [~chatzilla@64.125.181.92] has joined #lisp 00:00:47 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 00:00:52 -!- rvirding_ [~chatzilla@64.125.181.92] has quit [Client Quit] 00:00:56 Thank you, Xach. Norvig has this line of code in his auxfns.lisp, 00:00:56 but I still don't know how to disable symbol? 00:00:56 francogrex [~francogre@109.130.110.224] has joined #lisp 00:01:08 davyzhu: (sb-ext:unlock-package :cl) might be the easiest short-term fix. pjb has some translation that avoids the package locks but i can't find the url. 00:01:17 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 00:01:29 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:03:40 rvirding_ [~chatzilla@64.125.181.92] has joined #lisp 00:04:01 -!- ebobby_ [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:05:06 -!- francogrex [~francogre@109.130.110.224] has quit [Client Quit] 00:08:47 -!- rvirding_ [~chatzilla@64.125.181.92] has left #lisp 00:09:40 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 00:10:24 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:10:39 -!- cyphase 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[~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:25:44 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 01:26:19 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:40 hiro3w [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:31:42 davyzhu [~user@114.91.98.199] has joined #lisp 01:32:34 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-56-238.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:32:50 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:33:06 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 01:33:21 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-56-238.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:38:32 superflit_ [~superflit@184-96-100-93.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:20 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:40:36 -!- superflit [~superflit@63-225-247-217.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:40:37 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 01:42:19 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:42:52 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:44:20 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:45:09 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:50:07 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:04 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 01:54:11 -!- thethomaseffect [~thethomas@109.255.215.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:55:39 has anyone tried to make sort-of module system for CL? I'm not talking about ASDF systems 01:56:40 billstclair [~billstcla@p-68-237-137-116.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:41 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-68-237-137-116.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:56:41 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:58:01 -!- _d3f [~d3f@nl1.ovpn.to] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58:25 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 02:02:31 nan_ [~candodget@24.133.102.40] has joined #lisp 02:02:39 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@n1164813180.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 02:06:53 vince- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 02:06:53 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@n1164813180.netvigator.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:06:55 Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 02:06:55 hello. does slime work with auto complete mode? it looks pretty awesome. http://cx4a.org/software/auto-complete/index.html 02:08:09 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:09:32 vince-: should be doable to mix those two, though SLIME already does majority of the "awesome" parts of auto-complete 02:10:17 microcosm [~microcosm@180.143.236.149] has joined #lisp 02:14:36 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:15:18 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:15:35 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 02:15:52 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:44 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:23:57 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:30:11 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1b6c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:31:29 -!- RiskyBlit 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[~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 04:30:30 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:08 if anyone's willing, I have the following snippet of cl-irc code which is resulting in a join to the #joekarma channel which lasts around 10 minutes before pinging out: https://gist.github.com/3991747 04:34:54 I'm wondering if the problem's my code, my connection, or something in cl-irc revision 231 (head) which I just checked out from svn://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc/svn/trunk 04:34:59 could you paste a log? 04:35:32 the unhandled-event log? 04:35:36 Sure. 04:35:41 ok 04:35:51 there used to be a bug where it wouldn't pong correctly that would do something like that, but I don't know if it would last ten minutes. 04:37:14 I may have to instrument the pong messages since none of them were showing up by default... I had wireshark running in the background but it's a bit noisy... I'll try to figure out what's relevant and what's not 04:40:43 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:40:46 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:41:22 -!- vince- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: quit] 04:41:34 I don't know how useful these logs are without the pong messages, but I updated the gist https://gist.github.com/3991747 04:41:45 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@81.200.28.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:42:38 I talked to that bot and it seemed to take longer to ping out than when I was silent 04:43:00 I found it easier to write my own IRC protocol layer than to deal with cl-irc 04:43:58 hopefully it doesn't come to that.... 04:44:30 well, it doesn't look my earlier pingout problems. i'm not sure what's going on there. 04:45:19 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:46:37 piko_ [~piko@ip4-83-240-108-205.cust.nbox.cz] has joined #lisp 04:47:05 I'm going to have the library log all pong messages now too to see if that offers a clue 04:47:29 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:09 joekarma: the IRC protocol is disturbingly simple 04:51:26 it's a few hours' exercise, including reading the RFCs, I/O, and debugging. 04:51:52 I may consider going that route 04:51:54 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 04:52:16 yeah... cl-irc has a nice enough system but it is pretty buggy. 04:52:44 writing a small IRC bot is so easy, in fact, that it's become my habitual "get a feel for a new development toolset" project. 04:53:31 well, it would certainly be a good learning experience 04:54:34 and it might in fact be easier since I can probably leave out 95% of cl-irc's functionality 04:54:47 *Ralith* recommends cl-yacc for the parser; very nice to use. 04:56:31 alright, I'm logging pong messages now. I'll see what that reveals, and if I'm unsuccessful in this I'll go the RFC + cl-yacc + iolib route 04:56:52 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:54 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:05:30 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 05:06:02 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 05:07:45 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:09:46 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:13:07 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:58 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:17:40 -!- mrcarrot [~user@unaffiliated/mrcarrot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:20:07 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.187] has joined #lisp 05:26:56 dlowe: ignore my previous links and please refer to your github notifications :) 05:30:22 cl-irc doesn't seem to be hearing the pings at all, unless those aren't considered to be IRC-MESSAGE-EVENTs ... I've pasted my event logging monkey patch at https://gist.github.com/3991747 05:31:45 But it logs other handled messages? 05:31:53 yep 05:32:04 that's pretty damn weird. 05:35:21 wait a minute, just did it again and got a handled PING event 05:36:55 so I must have forgotten to compile that function or something.... 05:38:32 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-56-238.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:41:08 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:41:54 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.21.151] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:43:13 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 05:44:32 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:45:51 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 05:47:42 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.21.151] has joined #lisp 05:53:54 cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-139-94.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:55:26 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:56:09 -!- Codynyx_ [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:56:56 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:09 -!- booguie [~booguie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:56 so cl-irc hears the ping message, calls (apply #'pong (connection message) (arguments message)) , and shortly thereafter fails to register any new events and pings out..... very weird.... 06:12:36 jewel [~jewel@105.237.24.33] has joined #lisp 06:20:13 nan_ [~candodget@24.133.102.40] has joined #lisp 06:23:36 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 06:26:00 davyzhu [~user@114.91.115.252] has joined #lisp 06:26:11 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:28:05 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.24.155] has joined #lisp 06:29:57 interesting.... wireshark shows that my irc client is sending pong messages as ":verne.freenode.net PONG verne.freenode.net :irc.freenode.net" whereas cl-irc is only sending them as "PONG verne.freenode.net" . when I added the :irc.freenode.net trailer (a default server2 argument) I got two pings out of cl-irc, now to figure out how to add that prefix.... 06:30:54 joekarma: the lack of such a prefix is almost certainly not the problem. 06:31:14 PONGs are implicitly directed to the server you are connected to 06:31:17 they need no fancy addressing 06:31:53 good for the protocol, bad for me 06:32:42 write a new one proto-cool! ^^ 06:32:43 in fact, it's strange that your IRC client is sending that 06:33:20 joekarma: anyway, dig up the RFC; you don't need to guess when there's documentation. 06:33:21 -!- scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has left #lisp 06:33:44 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 06:33:54 yes, reading it now 06:34:40 note that there are two RFCs, and every single IRC server extends the protocol even beyond that, but it's all backwards compatible. 06:35:29 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 06:36:36 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:37:35 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 06:37:45 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 06:41:14 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:41:39 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:44:55 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 06:45:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-122.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:45:56 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:47:44 I'm starting to wonder if this has to do with the fact I'm on a mac.... in the most recent session no ping messages were detected but the cl-irc bot just stopped registering all events, including privmsg events. 06:53:46 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 06:54:42 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:54:48 -!- jewel [~jewel@105.237.24.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:58:34 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:58:41 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 06:58:58 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 07:00:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.76] has joined #lisp 07:00:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.76] has quit [Changing host] 07:00:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:02:28 Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 07:08:29 I was not able to replicate my cl-irc problems on my ubuntu rackspace server... so I don't think it has to do with cl-irc.... it's probably an incompatibility between my mac (lion) and one of the libraries cl-irc depends on. I give up for now. Thanks for your help guys! 07:09:02 sorry you have to suffer through that 07:09:07 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 07:09:12 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:09:45 it's all good, all part of the process 07:09:58 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:11:59 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-fgrykrowsxduvbjd] has joined #lisp 07:11:59 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-fgrykrowsxduvbjd] has quit [Changing host] 07:11:59 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:13:20 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.21.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:19:04 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-156-58.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:36 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.222] has joined #lisp 07:21:45 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 07:21:45 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:21:45 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:23:03 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.24.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:24:22 -!- CoverSlide [~richard@pool-173-55-83-220.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:24:29 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 07:31:05 -!- Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:35:40 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:36:33 benny [~user@i577A8937.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 07:41:03 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:41:41 CoverSlide [~richard@pool-173-55-83-220.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:59 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:42:37 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 07:46:26 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:48:06 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.139.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:48:29 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:49:02 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:31 -!- paul0 [~paulo@187.112.67.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:53:15 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:53:52 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:57:02 asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 08:03:23 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:04:08 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 08:04:23 -!- nooy [1000@h-226-46.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:07:18 -!- davyzhu [~user@114.91.115.252] has left #lisp 08:10:07 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:11:25 nooy [1000@h-73-92.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 08:15:32 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:15:56 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 08:16:18 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 08:17:15 -!- piko_ [~piko@ip4-83-240-108-205.cust.nbox.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:20:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-122.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:21:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-122.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:22:25 -!- nan_ [~candodget@24.133.102.40] has left #lisp 08:24:08 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 08:24:29 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 08:27:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:27:50 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 08:27:50 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:54 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:11 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 08:33:41 nan_ [~candodget@24.133.102.40] has joined #lisp 08:36:39 mrcarrot [~user@unaffiliated/mrcarrot] has joined #lisp 08:41:12 emacs 24.2 gets very sluggish over time when programming lisp & using slime. Anyone else observed this? 08:41:58 Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 08:43:25 sohail [~Adium@76-10-172-111.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 08:43:25 -!- sohail [~Adium@76-10-172-111.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 08:43:25 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 08:44:56 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 08:46:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-122.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:46:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-122.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:47:03 -!- Quadresce is now known as Quadrescence 08:47:34 prxq: even if you run emacs -nw in a xterm ? 08:48:11 never tried, really, because it takes a while to become sluggish, and -nw is not terribly nice 08:48:25 *prxq* is thinking of downgrading 08:49:27 Lol :) 08:52:09 why do you need another observation? 08:53:38 RenJuan: if you mean me, then actually I was expecting someone to say something like "ah, put this in your init.el and all will be fine". Or so. 08:54:04 hoping, rather 08:54:07 yes. meant you 08:54:15 prxq: M-x slime-repl-clear-buffer maybe ? 08:55:14 niels1 [~niels@p4FD6BB88.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:02 cmatei: no, that doesn't help. 08:56:33 -!- mrcarrot [~user@unaffiliated/mrcarrot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:57:43 did you build emacs from source? 08:58:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-122.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:59:14 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-122.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:00:27 prxq: check memory consumption. 09:01:32 if emacs was compiled from source or not shouldnt matter. 09:01:33 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 09:01:40 it is always compiled from source after all.. 09:02:10 prxq: and please don't downgrade, that is ignoring the problem. 09:04:28 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 09:06:11 Cthulhu fhtagn! 09:06:24 ops .. sorry! 09:09:01 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11:17 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 09:11:32 maxm- [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 09:11:42 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:13:44 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:15:52 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:18:52 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.220] has joined #lisp 09:19:17 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:19:21 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.152.161] has joined #lisp 09:19:25 trebor_dki [~user@kvpn.lbf.fraunhofer.de] has joined #lisp 09:19:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-122.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:19:51 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:09 -!- vantage|home is now known as elfenixtorres 09:22:09 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:31 ams: memory consumption looks ok. At least, it is far from consuming all this computer's memory 09:22:50 prxq: well, depending on how many buffers you have, even 100-200 can be alot for emacs. 09:23:23 prxq: i wonder if there could be some timer stuff going on as well... 09:23:26 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: pa] 09:23:46 prxq: like a stale slime connection, that is pinging stuff ... maybe slime-abort-connection, unless you have something runnign.. 09:24:12 hi 09:24:34 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:30:32 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0021e2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:33 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:31:32 am0c_ [~am0c@112.149.169.27] has joined #lisp 09:34:59 Kvaks [~kvaks@95.161.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 09:35:27 -!- am0c_ is now known as am0c 09:35:44 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 09:38:36 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:55:30 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:56:18 mrcarrot [~user@unaffiliated/mrcarrot] has joined #lisp 09:56:24 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A57C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:01:42 bitonic [~user@wavelan76.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:06:34 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:09:16 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-38-22.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:11:09 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 10:14:16 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0021e2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:14:24 mrm [~user@92.50.188.118] has joined #lisp 10:16:18 -!- niels1 [~niels@p4FD6BB88.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 10:16:28 agumonke1 [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:48 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:17:26 -!- bitonic [~user@wavelan76.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:18:25 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont 10:20:25 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-156-58.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:21:58 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:24:47 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-92.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:26:37 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-216-69.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 10:31:20 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:33:10 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.156] has joined #lisp 10:37:10 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 10:43:34 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-92.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:43:38 ferada [~ferada@dslb-094-219-152-083.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:54 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:44:04 icrazyhack [horieyui@202.120.202.43] has joined #lisp 10:44:40 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:47:18 slime is on-topic right? has anyone had the problem that they'd need to translate remote pathnames (e.g. xref info) to a local repository, that is, not being able to use tramp to directly edit remote files? 10:50:08 -!- am0c [~am0c@112.149.169.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:50:10 RenJuan: which parameters would you set to solve the problem (building emacs from source)? 10:51:34 emacs 24.2.1 it's just great! 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265 seconds] 11:47:26 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:53:23 -!- Kvaks is now known as Kvakz 11:54:17 iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:54:23 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:55:56 gkeith_glaptop__ [~gkeith@c-98-216-97-19.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:13 gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@c-98-216-97-19.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:32 amaron [~amaron@cable-178-148-246-201.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 12:00:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:02:09 -!- Kvakz is now known as Kvaks 12:03:18 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-9-33.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:06:24 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 12:11:33 When I'm debugging in slime and sbcl, and see stack frame using evaluate 'e' doesn't see local variables with names in local code; when I expand the frame I see them in local list like this: SB-DEBUG::ARG-0 = #.(CXML-STP:ELEMENT ..) 12:12:06 I'm trying to press 'e' and then type (do-something-with node) where node is local name in code 12:12:33 I tried with (declaim (optimize (debug 3)...)) 12:14:50 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 12:15:11 Anyone good with debugger? 12:16:02 amaron: try compiling the function in question with C-u C-c C-c 12:16:14 am0c [~am0c@211.49.101.151] has joined #lisp 12:20:34 jdz: thanks, trying... 12:21:14 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21:19 LiamH [~none@129-2-129-145.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:21:22 -!- am0c [~am0c@211.49.101.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:21:53 jdz: yeah, the trace looks much better! 12:22:08 -!- microcosm [~microcosm@180.143.236.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:22:20 amaron: so did you recompile your code after introducing your declaim? was the declaim in the correct file? 12:22:37 jdz: yes 12:22:48 amaron: also, what's the "..." in your declaim? 12:23:02 amaron: i don't believe you, anyway. 12:24:37 jdz: i put declaim on top of the file where the function is, recompiled the file the ... was other arguments (speed 0) (safety 0) 12:25:12 jdz: i don't understand your last comment about believing 12:25:12 amaron: never (i mean NEVER) use (safety 0) 12:25:21 peterhil- [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 12:27:47 -!- bps [~bps@ip68-106-240-172.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:28:29 amaron: when you used C-u C-c C-c, you really compiled the function with high debug optimization; i don't know what you did before, but apparently you did something wrong. 12:28:36 -!- kindergip [~IceChat9@24-207-14-200.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:29:18 jdz: thanks for the hints 12:29:32 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 12:32:34 _d3f [~d3f@nl1.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 12:32:53 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14:30:38 i have a system, cffi actually, that is widely used and to which I want to make a patch just after asdf loads it (push something on the library search list) and before anybody else tries to use it. any suggestions for what I might put in my asdf file(s) to achieve that. I note that :depend-on (  cffi-patch plokomi  ) for example doesn't work out since the order that depend-on elements are handled appears to be unspecified. 14:32:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:32:32 bhyde: you want an :after method on asdf:load-system for :cffi 14:32:58 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:33:00 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053006209.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:33:07 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:33:10 bhyde: here's something similar someone else has done: The way you said, I prepended (defsystem perform :after ((op load-op) (c (eql (find-system :bordeaux-threads)))) (rename-package :bordeaux-threads :bordeaux-threads)) to my .asd 14:33:10 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:33:13 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:34:06 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:34:35 -!- am0c_ is now known as am0c 14:35:06 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:35:24 iirc the (eql (find-system ...)) technique has a different approach in asdf2 14:35:26 *Xach* checks docs 14:37:14 H4ns: hm i wonder how many nodes in my lacy graph of system dependencies I'll need to do that in. .. maybe my init file (which is kind an odd place) 14:37:34 bhyde: the suggestion that kaw has is a good one. 14:38:06 bhyde: ah, you want it globally. sorry. yes, you implementation's init file would be a good place. 14:39:32 -!- Kvakz is now known as Kvaks 14:39:45 : defsystem-depends-on looked tempting (as a way to force ordering given depends-on's carefree attitude about ordering). 14:40:36 antgreen [~user@dsl-173-206-206-68.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 14:45:31 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:45:41 am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 14:45:43 gigamonkey [gigamonkey@nat/hackerschool.com/x-hjmmpdrwnejfixfj] has joined #lisp 14:46:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:46:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:46:33 -!- Kvaks is now known as Kvakz 14:46:54 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:49:16 -!- am0c_ is now known as am0c 14:49:36 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 14:49:46 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@cbo119.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:52:25 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@ccr189.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:53:30 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:55:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:01:36 WoW: gsrc is so useful to keep emacs up to date! :) 15:01:42 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-169-118.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:02:05 linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 15:02:49 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 15:03:09 -!- guyal__ [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 15:04:28 pnpuff: wwanna know a cooler trick? 15:04:36 yes!! 15:04:52 pnpuff: snatch the bzr repo, plop the source tree in ~/emacs and compile it there, then use ~/emacs/src/emacs to run emacs. 15:05:09 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:30 It's my usual method... 15:05:31 catmtking [~catmtking@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-66-121.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 15:06:07 pnpuff: which is far nicer, since you don't have to install a extra copy :-) 15:06:52 but yeah, gsrc is nice ... we came up with the idea at a gnu hacker meeting some years ago, and brian implemented it. 15:07:52 -!- mrm [~user@92.50.188.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:08:29 even I usually build source without installing it 15:08:52 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:07 H4ns - thanks that's working ok 15:09:10 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 15:09:11 #+macosx 15:09:12 (defmethod asdf:perform :after ((op asdf:load-op) (c (eql (asdf:find-system :cffi)))) 15:09:13 (declare (ignore op c)) 15:09:15 (pushnew "/opt/local/lib/" 15:09:15 (symbol-value (intern "*FOREIGN-LIBRARY-DIRECTORIES*" (find-package "CFFI"))) 15:09:16 :test #'string=)) 15:10:01 bhyde: use lispaste 15:10:03 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-38-22.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:11 to paste code in channel ... :) 15:10:26 -!- niels2 [~niels@p4FD6DBB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:10:34 -!- MoALTz 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#lisp 17:22:51 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-243-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:42 I like the github "new cl projects" feed because I can find code like https://github.com/cchantep/lispobj/blob/master/poo.lisp 17:24:48 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-9-33.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:25:35 Xach: My eyes! 17:25:57 Is he using Doxygen instead of docstrings? 17:26:08 *Xach* is not sure; nothing looks conventional there 17:26:23 haha 17:26:50 that's interesting, the way he indent his code 17:28:00 also, there is any good document about reading lisp code, and indentation? 17:29:28 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 17:30:05 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Client Quit] 17:30:06 poor guy: probably he is not a meta* lisper :) 17:30:08 paul0: there are style guides if that's what you're asking about. 17:30:24 ihih 17:30:26 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:08 felideon, just found this http://dept-info.labri.u-bordeaux.fr/~idurand/enseignement/PFS/Common/Strandh-Tutorial/indentation.html 17:31:14 and this https://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ReadingLispCode 17:31:40 Xach: is this what you're referring to? https://github.com/languages/Common%20Lisp/created 17:31:54 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-223-96.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:32:19 felideon: yes, except the rss feed 17:32:53 phax [~phax@c-67-161-5-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:53 -!- phax [~phax@c-67-161-5-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:32:53 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 17:38:22 Xach: ugh ... indentation aside, the code is aweful 17:38:55 though on the topic of docstring to manual or similar, sb-texinfo is nice 17:39:26 I do admire someone who battles through to make something, though I wish it was more common to try to study convention. 17:40:01 Like the whole "I'm having trouble with all these trees, I better make myself a chainsaw instead of trying to find a path" concept. 17:40:09 there are few things i dislike about "common lisp" indentation style, but good god ... 17:40:23 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 17:41:17 (like i prefer the else clause in an if to be indented 2 spaces, insteadf of four 17:41:18 ) 17:41:51 -!- cornihil` [~user@p6fd90806.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:42:15 regarding not redoing stuff again - has anyone made a kind-of module system for lisp? 17:42:28 kind of module system? 17:43:16 ams: modules more in kind with ML and such 17:43:26 -!- RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-65-128-115-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:43 ah 17:43:50 anyway, I was trying to make a cooperative environment to work on live image, so I'm thinking of a way to generate "patchsets" that would be loaded by the image 17:44:30 mm.. 17:44:50 the idea was to make "1 module per file" and standardized functions in every one of them, that would properly migrate state on loading fasl 17:47:17 ams: not that i want to propagate uncommon indentation styles, but you can change that (i presume) with slime-indentation. 17:47:28 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:47:32 felideon: it is quite common actually, though not for common lisp. 17:47:51 felideon: it is the standard maclisp/emacs lisp style. 17:47:53 ams: well this is a common lisp channel, that was my context. 17:48:16 though i stick with conention .. easier. 17:48:17 I believe the Allegro IDE indents that way too. 17:48:26 -!- antgreen [~user@dsl-173-206-206-68.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:27 convention 17:48:55 i find the emacs lisp indentation of if's far easier to read 17:49:49 elisp has an implicit progn in the else branch, so it makes sense to have it be a separate indentation level 17:52:37 yeah, also i like that .. so :-) 17:52:45 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-250-54.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:53:53 ...so you're in the wrong channel! (-: 17:53:55 lol 17:54:15 pnpuff: uhm, maybe you're in the wrong channel, there is liking and liking things. 17:54:33 yes: sure ams !! 17:54:45 I'm in the wrong planet :-) 17:54:51 and there are sure lots of things that suck about cl as well. 17:54:56 Lol 17:54:58 *jasom* can't think of a time when an implicit progn has caused me pain, so I don't see a problem with them in lots more places than cl has them 17:55:20 -!- _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: _d3f] 17:55:34 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:55:35 jasom: implementing them is something else though. implicit tagbodies are even worse. 17:55:44 pnpuff: what is so funny? common lisp is not perfect. 17:56:27 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 17:56:40 nothing is 17:57:23 a good hacker will know why something sucks, and not blurt out silly statements like "you're in the wrong channel cause you don't like that" 17:57:26 but tends to... 17:57:47 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@cbo119.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 17:58:01 lispm [~lispm@g224127092.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:58:10 AeroNotix [~xeno@cbo119.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:59:13 which is also why we have awesome libraries like alexandria 17:59:57 and why we have a nice language in the bottom that we can use to work around whatever deficinencies we find 18:01:05 (a great sense of humor never hurts and common lisp keeps me happy!) 18:01:14 LoL 18:01:44 not too happy.. quite happy. 18:01:47 I like that there has been a generational break, and the consensus is no longer "Common Lisp is junk because it's not like ZetaLisp" (or whatever the speaker's now-dead favorite Lisp was) 18:01:58 or "not enough like" 18:02:00 eh, since when has you seen humor in common-lisp ? 18:02:04 lol 18:02:05 pnpuff: well, i don't find it funny bitching about whatever lisp one uses, i find it quite boring. 18:02:23 pkhuong: so basically implicit progns hasn't caused me pain because I haven't implemented them :) 18:02:33 Xach: yeah, zetalisp and maclisp had nice features, but hey .. we can implement them in common lisp! 18:03:03 you could have a zetalisp package for all anyone cares ... 18:03:30 some crazy japanese person wrote a maclisp package for commonlisp 18:05:04 hmmm; is it possible to write a non-interning reader just by modifying the readtable? 18:05:33 jasom: Getting macros right (where "right" means in spirit and to a quality level en par with macros defined in the standard) can be quite tedious. Just expanding to a PROGN is very often only the easy, suboptimal solution. (Things that are tricky to get right: declarations, and implicit block nil + implicit tagbody) 18:05:45 jasom: not really 18:05:49 I'm interested a bit in implementing some stuff from ZetaLisp's reader, though 18:06:17 p_l: nod, and hey .. you can do it, portably across common lisp systems, that is why i like common lisp. 18:06:25 it is a half sane baseline :-) 18:07:07 (and i don't have to write everything rom scratch like in scheme) 18:07:16 sure... 18:08:15 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:08:17 jasom: You can look up "character traits" in the clhs; a constiuent's character trait can't be changed, and #\: is defined to have trait "package marker". You can make #\: a non-constituent but that won't probably yield useful results 18:09:44 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 18:10:11 the portability is a key feature to save time and resources. 18:10:14 tcr: How do you feel about cl-syntax? 18:10:42 ams: my general ideas for possible future cltl3 try involve making an Apache/MIT/public domain licensed code that could be loaded into any modern CL and at worst you'd miss some speed 18:11:40 p_l: honestly, i don't care much for cltl3 18:12:00 p_l: rather i'd see some low-level changes to ansi cl 18:12:20 -!- Gmind [~Deulamco@123.16.96.119] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:12:28 p_l: like better control over the compiler, or crazier manners of extending the syntax 18:12:33 ams: cltl3 is a common name for a vehicle for future changes 18:12:58 p_l: which concentrates on adding libraries, not low level incompatible changes to cl 18:13:13 i.e. not something you can just load into a modern cl and go .. 18:13:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:13:53 much interesting... 18:13:55 ams: I was thinking of some low-level stuff as well, with the "library" code that can emulate missing features in ANSI 18:14:24 p_l: well, most stuff i can think of that i'd like to do wouldn't be able to be done in a library with out alot of work.. if even that 18:14:51 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:15:09 ams: nothing will get done in one jump 18:15:19 if you can do it in a library, then imho, you don't need a new `standard'/ 18:16:43 (i also consider that the standard is to big ... but oh well :-) 18:17:09 sohail [~Adium@76-10-172-111.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:17:09 -!- sohail [~Adium@76-10-172-111.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:17:09 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 18:18:09 maxm-: Thanks for log4cl. Finally I don't feel like writing my own logger. :) 18:18:41 log4cl2your-own-logger :) 18:18:48 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:21:06 ams: the library way wouldn't necessarily be good or fast 18:21:16 and I care about efficiency 18:21:44 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.254.178] has joined #lisp 18:22:06 p_l: well, there is nothing stopping e.g. the sbcl implementors fron incorporating alexandria as a first class citizen and open-coding uses of it 18:22:10 p_l: i care about performance as well, though that should be left up to implementors 18:22:28 oh!! 18:22:52 p_l: indeed, i think standards should have code and not words, so a standard can be just ripped apart and used and then tweaked by whatever the implekemntor is doing 18:23:12 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0021e2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:24 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:45 ams: my idea is to start with library, which can be incorporated freely by implementors who can then implement more efficient version of it 18:23:48 i.e. every function should have a standard implementation, for example similar to subseq which has a example implementation of it 18:23:56 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:06 That came up at a past ILC when Paul Graham described Arc as defined by the implementation. 18:25:29 Someone like McCarthy or Norvig asked if maybe it was clearer to describe a function with "transposes a matrix" in prose than showing the code. 18:25:35 oh, no, i was thinking of something else than subseq .. but there are one or two functions in ansi cl that have example implementations that are not really part of the spec. 18:25:47 Xach: wouldn't that be called PLT Scheme? 18:26:00 I dislike the current "defined by implementation". it turns out to be a mess most of the time 18:26:10 dlowe: Dunno. 18:26:19 *dlowe* was being snarky. 18:26:23 but an example implementation, or just pseudocode, available in standard, would be nice 18:26:24 Xach: well, i think the english wording is useful though; which should be offical, but with the addition of code. 18:26:40 p_l: no, that is all i am suggesting, like the example sections are not officall part of the standard. 18:26:47 nod 18:26:50 not no :-) 18:27:13 jasom: in fact, there is nothing stopping alexandria implementors from doing so! 18:27:24 do it faster .. do it better 18:27:26 subst i was thinking of .. 18:30:37 and test suite ... two things i hate with any standard 18:31:22 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:36:43 tcr [~tcr@77-58-246-8.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:37:18 _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 18:39:45 *Xach* misses pfdietz's regular emails regarding CL test suite failures 18:40:19 ... do it simpler (if is possible :-) 18:42:56 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:47:57 Xach: yeah! 18:51:05 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:51:06 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 18:51:35 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:40 Xach: yes, hope he's doing ok (I keep seeing papers bearing his name and wondering if that's the same pfdietz (-:) 18:52:31 -!- gigamonkey [gigamonkey@nat/hackerschool.com/x-oiprtvdetkawizfw] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 18:56:23 antifuchs: I think it is. 18:56:31 awesome (: 18:59:25 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 18:59:44 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:00:07 (-:-) 19:01:08 palindromic smile. 19:02:16 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:02:36 i thougth siamese-smile...... 19:03:26 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-12-37.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:03:37 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-41-27.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 19:04:30 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-58-246-8.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:05:25 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:09 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:13:36 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224127092.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: lispm] 19:16:41 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-30-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:16:43 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:17:20 Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:29 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-21-251-38.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:16 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host45-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:27:17 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 19:43:41 -!- Kvakz is now known as Kvaks 19:45:56 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.11.224.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:46:06 Daisy [Daisy@79.138.210.157.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 19:46:34 -!- `fogus is now known as `fogus|gone 19:50:23 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:50:53 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.97] has joined #lisp 19:52:38 Posterdati [~antani@host45-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:55:41 flip214: hi 20:00:18 -!- Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:01:33 -!- Kvaks is now known as Kvakz 20:04:55 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.244.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:05:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:06:30 Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:40 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:12:39 atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has joined #lisp 20:13:24 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:13:37 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn902-16.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:13:44 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has quit [Quit: faust45] 20:15:56 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 20:20:24 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has quit [Client Quit] 20:21:05 -!- hilbert [~Hilbert@adsl-178-39-146-39.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:22:07 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:27:25 ngz [~user@115.236.75.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:07 hilbert [~Hilbert@adsl-178-39-168-10.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:29:52 is there a fix for cl-ppcre to make this sbcl warning go away? http://paste.lisp.org/display/133489 20:30:33 i understand that the optimizer thinks that the x variable could be NIL, but in fact it cannot ever be NIL. 20:30:50 flip214: my new post http://lisperweasel.blogspot.it/ 20:30:56 (well, it can, but parse-integer will never be invoked with it) 20:32:22 H4ns: yes, use filter functions like edi wants you to ;) 20:32:50 H4ns: (register-groups-bind ((#'parse-integer x)) ...) 20:32:55 H4ns: it used to be a warning, but I downgraded it to a style warning for such cases when the user might really know what they're doing. 20:32:59 but pkhuong beat me to it while I looked up the syntax. boo. 20:33:38 that looks bad. 20:33:45 but ok. maybe i'll get used to it. 20:33:57 pkhuong: thanks 20:34:26 register-groups-bind is not the greatest macro in the world anyway. 20:34:37 only slightly better than pomo:doquery 20:34:41 :D 20:34:45 what *is* the greatest macro in the world? 20:34:52 once-only? 20:34:56 sykopomp: you are right. macros suck :) 20:35:14 sykopomp: i just wanted to whine some, please ignore me :) 20:35:15 I wasn't even implying that. 20:35:28 I actually do want to know what the greatest macro in the world is. 20:35:33 honest 20:35:45 with-open-file is pretty good. 20:35:49 such an answer would necessarily be subjective 20:36:06 sure 20:36:11 defmacro ? 20:36:45 i also like dolist for all its implicit goodness 20:37:48 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 20:38:07 with- macros are among best stuff, IMO 20:38:10 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 20:38:18 of the things that are common and obvious 20:38:48 *drewc* uses pomo every day, and has never used DOQUERY at all and sor of afraid that it _exists_. 20:38:54 who says Lisp doesn't have design patterns? :) 20:38:55 -!- DrPete [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:39:21 drewc: i regularly load everything into memory, but sometime that approach does not work. 20:39:44 DrPete [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has joined #lisp 20:39:49 sykopomp: the problem is when design patterns are big kludges to get around things removed from language 20:39:53 ISF [~ivan@201.82.139.24] has joined #lisp 20:39:57 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-246.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 20:40:00 with- macros should be a simple wrapper around CALL-WITH functions where possible, imo 20:40:25 I haven't written a single with-* macro that isn't or can't be a call-with. 20:40:45 -!- `fogus|gone [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:41:25 deego [~user@unaffiliated/deego] has joined #lisp 20:41:28 http://pastebin.com/jw5GHhyV - 20:41:52 sykopomp:My candidate for world's best macro: setf. It really is transformational. 20:42:05 I try to starct sbcl with 2700MB, works, but the moment I got to 2800MB, it wants to allocate *negative* bytes. :( 20:42:11 My ulimit -m is unlimited. 20:42:19 H4ns: I have to agree with you there. I also, like 2 years ago or so, wrote a functional persistent btree type thing that was append-only yet stored on disk as well for the restarting thing ... But did not finish it because my contractee decided to go with postgres :( 20:42:46 (using the --dynamic-space-size parameter.) 20:42:55 Has anyone been able to start sbcl with larger memory? 20:43:00 deego: get a 64 bit system 20:43:03 drewc: quite a lot of macros I need is just writing a defmacro wrapper around a function that quotes the arguments 20:43:12 deego: my default is 14gb right now. 20:43:24 H4ns: I see. Thx. 20:43:26 deego: you are hitting OS VM limits 20:43:45 Another question: Before I migrated from ext3 to ext4, I swear I could start the same sbcl with 10k MB 20:43:53 I wonder what could have changed. 20:43:59 at 2800, you're probably messing up with space taken by buffers and libraries 20:44:05 um, nope 20:44:05 (This is indeed a 32bit system.) 20:44:16 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:44:30 p_l: I have come to prefer QUOTE over DEFMACRO ... and do macros very rarely indeed. 20:44:30 you can't mmap() a 10G block on 32bit system 20:44:45 p_l: Ah. 20:44:46 Thanks. 20:45:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:45:13 deego: on quite a lot of systems, the split is 2/2 - meaning 2G usable from userspace, 2G reserved for kernel 20:45:22 (of address space) 20:45:41 that said, I am still a lisper, so like macros! just, not for things if they can be avoided. 20:45:47 most modern linux use 3/1 split, but it's configurable. 64bit kernel allows more 20:45:51 With some hacks, linux can reach 3.5/5, but I don't believe that's a standard configuration. 20:46:04 pkhuong: I think I had seen 3.75/0.25 20:46:16 but yes, it's special-purpose stuff 20:46:41 Plus, SBCL wastes some address space because it needs the heap to be contiguous. 20:46:46 32bit windows has 2/2, *optionally* (boot parameter /3G) 3/1 20:47:03 pkhuong: I was thinking of possibly changing that need for contiguous address space 20:47:22 p_l: we all do. 20:47:22 cmm [~cmm@109.65.206.222] has joined #lisp 20:47:30 deego: Hey. 20:47:55 moore33: hi 20:48:13 pkhuong: well, I hope to spend some free time this academic year learning about stuff required to do so, then try tackling the SBCL runtime for my honours project 20:48:16 (bind (result 1) (lambda (x) (result (1+ )))) vs (mlet* m ((x (result 1))) (result 1)) ... I tend to stick with the former, and do not mind the lambda at all. If there are two calls to BIND, then MLET* is usually used for bindings. 20:48:21 ccorn_ [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-246.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 20:48:27 (The other interesting thing is that the same process runs just fine with franz's acl.) 20:48:31 err .. (1+ x) 20:48:49 because the lambda should work regardless of my point! 20:49:12 deego: acl does not have the same memory configuration problems (and dynamic memory usage) as sbcl 20:49:13 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:49:24 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-176-209-170.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:50:13 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-246.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:52:16 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:53:09 H4ns: yeah 20:54:34 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:58:15 someone should invent lisp with infix notation 20:58:40 -!- atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:58:44 been there, done that. 20:58:44 baaked: you should learn lisp first, before saying such nonsense 20:58:46 so only odd lists could be evaluable 20:58:57 try it yourself, see it sucks, stop speaking nonsense 20:59:22 car would return tuples only 20:59:23 baaked: while learning lisp, you will find that all the obvious things that you now find "should" be done have been done already. 20:59:32 baaked: Lisp was originally specified with something similar (though not infix). Somehow, no one wanted it enough for it to survive 20:59:37 oh nevermind it's just a troll. 20:59:42 ah, m-exp. 20:59:45 hahaha 21:00:44 actually, i find being able to insert infix quite useful at times ... 21:00:49 specially when it comes to math cruft 21:00:59 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:12 i actually prefer prefix, even though obviously i learned using infix 21:01:24 i've always had to think in prefix since learning algebra, so really i learned prefix 21:01:41 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:02:27 I must be the only one that finds operator precedence to be a problematic thing not worth keeping when you can always be explicit at little to no cost. 21:02:28 sometimes i'd like to have a tex input thingie macro 21:02:30 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:03:01 lets see, an infix "cons" would have to bind right for easy list creation 21:03:05 sykopomp: operator precedence for math expressions is pretty well defined. 21:03:12 yeah operator presence varies from implementation to implementation, it's much easier to enforce accuracy 21:03:15 ams: Do have macsyma in your ITS setup? 21:03:31 ams: Uh, Do *you* have... 21:03:35 H4ns: and pretty easy to make silly mistakes with as code evolves. 21:03:37 imo 21:03:44 tcr [~tcr@77-58-246-8.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:03:46 moore33: yes 21:04:02 sykopomp: i rarely do any math, so i do not miss infix at all 21:04:03 infix expression languages like OOo equation editors end up being tedious 21:04:14 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:31 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 21:04:43 -!- ccorn_ [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-246.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:04:47 figuring out how each system characterizes a term 21:04:53 implicitly and explicitly 21:05:04 ugh 21:05:12 thank god we've got lisp and don't need to deal with that crap 21:05:32 ^ 21:07:19 Hi Xach 21:07:56 it seems like cl-syntax is using named-readtables 21:09:02 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:19 -!- kleppari [~spa@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:09:34 Xach: Perhaps I have found the right person to take over named-readtables :-) 21:11:25 what's a good book on lambda calculus? the wikipedia article thinks i shouldn't read any of the notation 21:14:12 baaked: church's thesis. 21:14:40 -!- linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 21:15:40 ams: you use SIMH or KLH10 (or physical PDP-10) for ITS? 21:16:48 p_l: we had a klh10 running its, but due to electricy buills, AC problems, and room stuff we moved the machine into simh 21:17:07 p_l: (i then took a copy of said machine and run my own system) 21:17:51 hmm... how did klh10 ran into higher costs, or did you happen to run the old DEC version? 21:18:43 p_l: we had a big room of oldies, from where the cost .. pdp8, pdp10, some vaxen .. 21:19:13 p_l: a bolix 3600 that i maintained, and well, such things .. 21:19:22 yes, but klh10 has been running on PCs for some time now 21:19:25 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 21:19:39 (even though it originated from DEC's support for PDP-10 clients) 21:21:01 eech, sorry, kinda drunk .. i meant meant real hardware 21:21:16 ah 21:21:36 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 21:22:31 so, a pdp 10/kl or whatever ... 21:23:02 a kl10 would be pretty rare, I guess (it's supposedly also horrible to write an emulator for) 21:23:47 yeah, i know.. computer clubs rock :-) 21:25:41 p9f [~stian@arachnotron.sletner.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:26 p_l: http://www.update.uu.se/admin/ 21:26:59 the storage list is outdated for the record 21:27:56 ahhh, uu.se. Good stuff :) 21:28:29 :-) 21:28:44 www.update.uu.se/~ams/ 21:28:46 =) 21:30:44 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 21:32:13 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-246.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:35:31 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:03 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:51 -!- Kvakz is now known as Kvaks 21:39:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:24 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-58-246-8.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:40:17 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:40:47 krzysz00 [~krzys@76.78.153.47] has joined #lisp 21:40:48 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@37-144-236-67.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43:04 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0021e2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:43:09 I'm writing a program that calls `read-char` repeatedly until EOF. If dumped to an executable with clisp `program < file.txt` works, but in sbcl I have to paste the input in. How do I fix this? 21:46:05 -!- hilbert [~Hilbert@adsl-178-39-168-10.adslplus.ch] has left #lisp 21:46:53 erann [~erann@209.Red-79-156-37.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:07 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 21:50:51 krzysz00: uhm, not sure what you mean.. 21:50:59 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 21:51:28 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 21:52:03 -!- Kvaks is now known as Kvakz 21:53:17 (let ((input (make-array 1000 :element-type 'character :adjustable t :fill-pointer 0))) 21:53:39 (loop for c = (read-char *terminal-io* nil nil) 21:53:39 while c 21:53:39 do (vector-push-extend c input)) 21:53:56 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:53:59 you probably want to read from *standard-input* instead 21:54:15 Doesn't read from a pipe or file redirection in sbcl, but in does in clisp. 21:54:19 Trying that... 21:54:39 terminal-io is likely to be the terminal as long as there is one :) 21:55:13 That worked! Thanks. 21:56:01 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:56:35 alekaria [~alekaria@188.4.68.185.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 21:56:52 p9f: also, shouldn't really rebind/assign *terminal-io* 21:57:02 -!- alekaria [~alekaria@188.4.68.185.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [] 21:57:04 (this is a bit of lisptips trivia) (: 21:57:10 ("The effect of changing the value of *terminal-io*, either by binding or assignment, is implementation-defined.") 21:58:49 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.24.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:01:59 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:03:22 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:04:01 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:05:20 krzysz00: it's quite possible for *terminal-io* to be bound to /dev/tty 22:06:55 bitonic [~user@host86-133-197-248.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:01 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:15:48 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 22:16:31 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d436.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:17:20 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 22:22:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-223-96.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:24:36 -!- ngz [~user@115.236.75.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28:04 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 22:28:53 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:30:35 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:48 francogrex [~francogre@109.130.110.224] has joined #lisp 22:33:31 superflit_ [~superflit@67-41-145-180.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:51 blubberdiblub [~foobar@blubberdiblub.org] has joined #lisp 22:33:58 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:36:09 -!- superflit [~superflit@184-96-100-93.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:36:10 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 22:36:53 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:38:51 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:43:18 -!- booguie [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:59 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:45:41 kelabot [~kelabot@103.11.50.8] has joined #lisp 22:46:33 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 22:48:00 -!- kelabot [~kelabot@103.11.50.8] has left #lisp 22:50:27 phax_ [~phax@4.71.46.62] has joined #lisp 22:57:01 Plugging my lisp-hosted esolang that I threw together in two days. https://github.com/krzysz00/singl 23:00:59 -!- erann [~erann@209.Red-79-156-37.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: erann] 23:01:27 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-133-197-248.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:01:42 krzysz00: and, fwiw, there is a new version of smug in the works 23:03:14 based on proper monads and a monad/interface at the top. so far so good. 23:04:07 exciting 23:04:57 Your thoughts on the language, drewc? Cringing in horror? (Yes, yes I did use ASCII 3 (Control-C) as a comment delemiter.) 23:05:30 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 23:05:44 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 23:05:49 -!- findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:05:52 And, the documentation for my monad library is basically turning SMUG as listed in the .org into a proper monadic interface based on the existing and monads 23:06:08 after malbolge it's hard to find esolangs "nasty" any more 23:06:42 krzysz00: not horror at all, and yes, what Bike said 23:06:45 drewc: I have a proposal for smug's API based on when I used it. 23:07:29 sykopomp: well, things are going to change significantly, so i am all ears at this point. go on! 23:07:39 Bike, drewc: You're right. Malbolge is horrible. 23:07:40 drewc: my request is that instead of using =foo for conflicting parsers, you just assume that people won't :USE smug. 23:07:49 I think it's 110% reasonable to do smug:let* 23:08:27 sykopomp: heh ... exactly what was planned actually! 23:08:31 having a split between "core" smug combinators and 'utility' combinators into separate packages might be nice, too, but I don't care so much about thaht. 23:08:33 drewc: great! 23:08:44 you could even :nicknames := it for lulz. 23:08:51 (please don't) 23:10:10 well, basically, because the smug package will be simply be importing things from my other packages, and I use one package per file these days. 23:10:35 -!- gf3 [~gf3@oftn/member/gf3] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:10:37 drewc: do you think you'll also incorporate something like my EITHER/MAYBE changes that capture conditions? 23:10:52 so, you could simply c/p the defpackage and change the names 23:10:53 hooray one package per file :) 23:11:06 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:11:11 I am a fan. 23:12:46 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:12:54 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:13:08 gf3 [~gf3@oftn/member/gf3] has joined #lisp 23:13:20 -!- paul0 [~paulo@177.96.53.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:14:50 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 23:15:02 yeah, things will be very different for that actually, MAYBE with be dealt with by the monad ... which is a lot of the interface and can easily be set to something else for different maybes ... basically, things are the same on the outside, but the inside is done 'proper', as was intended really. 2011 was just an odd year for me, and my head still thinks that we are 01-11-11 :) 23:15:50 -!- LiamH1 [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:16:42 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:26 -!- _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: _d3f] 23:17:38 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 23:17:55 sot, basically, the parser itself is really just a combo of ans monads with a slot for the interface. that makes sense to me, and since you know a wee bit about smug, it will make sense to you when I am done with the .org mode file for that 23:18:05 and* now ans 23:18:18 not*, not now 23:19:35 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-9-33.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:21:43 vlion_ [~vlion@66-87-124-249.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:52 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-132-136-34.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:54 booguie [~booguie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:23 MoALTz [~no@host86-132-136-34.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:27:16 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:20 guyal__ [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:27 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@cbo119.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:31:31 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:40 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 23:33:52 -!- francogrex [~francogre@109.130.110.224] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:34 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:39:48 sykopomp: at once point, I wanted to just write m:let* once, and have everyone implement the protocol as methods. 23:44:58 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-094-219-064-073.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:46:00 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 23:46:13 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:47:41 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 23:49:20 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:50:15 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:51:17 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.221.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:52:02 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 23:53:07 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 23:55:38 davyzhu [~user@114.91.102.219] has joined #lisp 23:57:17 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-243-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:58:43 -!- davyzhu [~user@114.91.102.219] has left #lisp 23:59:56 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: catmtking]