00:02:42 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:02:52 -!- catmtking_ is now known as catmtking 00:04:33 ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@184.90.25.102] has joined #lisp 00:12:52 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 00:13:53 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-135-105.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: catmtking] 00:15:57 msmith09571 [~Mike@c-76-124-107-175.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:57 -!- binbit [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:17:40 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:19:27 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:41 justinmc_ [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-35-147.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:35 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-156-19.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:20:56 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:42 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 00:27:55 duko [~duko@cpe-76-174-26-24.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:28:32 is it common to use `in-package` in the body of a function? 00:29:19 i'm trying to use cl-sendmail https://github.com/Publitechs/cl-sendmail/blob/master/sendmail.lisp 00:29:28 and it does not export stream-write-string 00:30:12 which i am able to use for creating content of email if I use in-package 00:30:51 what is the best way to use a package like cl-sendmail? 00:33:05 duko: learn a bit about packages - you can use unexported symbols with :: instead of :, but consider if it's truly needed 00:35:21 i see! 00:35:23 thank you 00:37:35 I tried using cl-sendmail at one point.... I ended up giving up on it, choosing to use cl-smtp instead. I found that library easier to use 00:38:32 stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.45.45] has joined #lisp 00:40:53 -!- stlifey_ [~stlifey@59.35.100.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:45:37 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:53:57 -!- estefani [~canaima@190.200.20.138] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:55:17 estefani [~canaima@190.200.20.138] has joined #lisp 00:55:55 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 00:59:39 -!- msmith09571 [~Mike@c-76-124-107-175.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:59:44 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-39.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:01:50 silentNight [~silentNig@adsl-065-013-082-223.sip.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:40 ska80 [~user@203.146.146.162] has joined #lisp 01:03:53 xyxu [~Adium@58.41.1.172] has joined #lisp 01:06:24 -!- smogprez [~clarkeaa@50-0-18-170.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:07:40 -!- estefani [~canaima@190.200.20.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:08:51 estefani [~canaima@190.200.20.138] has joined #lisp 01:10:06 -!- oubiwann [~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:13:25 -!- silentNight [~silentNig@adsl-065-013-082-223.sip.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:15:39 Yuuhi```` [benni@p5483B4E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:04 -!- Sorella_ is now known as Sorella 01:17:26 -!- Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483B825.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:19:13 -!- estefani [~canaima@190.200.20.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:20:37 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:09 -!- cornihilio [~user@nfmv001078036.uqw.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:50 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:17 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-30-29.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:01 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29:51 CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-39.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:31:21 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:31:25 _nix00 [~Adium@116.226.81.77] has joined #lisp 01:33:05 cornihilio [~user@nfmv001078036.uqw.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:34:40 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 01:37:38 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 01:38:26 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.226.81.77] has left #lisp 01:39:42 steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:42:08 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:55 tiglog [~topeak@61.149.226.120] has joined #lisp 01:46:59 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:47:33 _nix001 [~Adium@116.226.81.77] has joined #lisp 01:48:22 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 02:01:47 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 02:01:59 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 02:04:06 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:36 estefani [~canaima@190.200.20.138] has joined #lisp 02:11:02 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:03 -!- axion1 is now known as axion 02:16:49 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 02:18:49 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-30-29.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:30:36 -!- ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@184.90.25.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:30:47 ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@184.90.25.102] has joined #lisp 02:35:17 pirateking9_9 [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 02:35:39 -!- _nix001 [~Adium@116.226.81.77] has left #lisp 02:36:02 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 02:37:36 -!- strobegen [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:38:06 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:38:06 -!- pirateking9_9 is now known as pirateking-_- 02:38:08 strz [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has joined #lisp 02:38:32 -!- strz is now known as strobegen 02:40:00 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-30-112.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:48:05 ioa [~ioa@dynamic2-249-006.usc.edu] has joined #lisp 02:52:33 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-32-116.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:53:31 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 02:57:28 msmith09571 [~Mike@c-76-124-107-175.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:56 Is there a shortcut for the differences between two numbers? as in (abs (- x y)) 02:58:07 difference* 02:58:28 isn't that already pretty short? 02:59:00 yeah, it is. i wasn't sure if it was built in 02:59:08 and as soon as i typed that, i thought the same thing 03:00:39 -!- _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: _d3f] 03:00:44 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-91-71.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:02:47 -!- benny [~user@i577A8BBE.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:03:58 -!- msmith09571 [~Mike@c-76-124-107-175.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:04:09 oubiwann [~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:53 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:05:13 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:05:36 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 03:14:27 -!- justinmc_ [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-35-147.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:15:47 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-180-242.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:29 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:19:05 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@75-142-48-213.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:20:23 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-176-196.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:22:53 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:23:01 PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-187.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 03:23:03 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:27 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 03:24:28 *stassats* got cffi to load on ABCL 03:24:37 yay 03:24:50 not actually working, at least for cl+ssl 03:25:39 *stassats* contemplates loading cffi, doesn't expect anything meaningful 03:25:48 err 03:25:50 commonqt 03:26:08 but, closer-mop doesn't support abcl yet, so that's meaningless 03:26:22 msmith09571 [~Mike@c-76-124-107-175.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:35 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@201-58-228-136.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:30:26 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:31:21 -!- ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@184.90.25.102] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:33:10 would a .lisp file ever have to be executable ? 03:33:25 never 03:33:26 you could 03:33:36 for some reason, i get a strange error when trying to compile files 03:33:36 I don't think so 03:33:40 stassats: several implementations support #! 03:33:42 as regular user, doesnt work, but as root, it does 03:34:02 msmith09571: check your permissions 03:34:03 sykopomp: making scripts end in .lisp is a poor idea 03:34:16 msmith09571: and see if you don't get some interesting errors 03:34:17 yeah 03:34:35 i have rw on my user for the lisp files 03:34:52 msmith09571: what is your lisp implementation, and how does it complain? 03:34:56 i was getting 'UNIX error 13 (EACCES): Permission denied' 03:35:01 sure the owner is correct? 03:35:02 clisp 2.48 03:35:06 yesir 03:35:17 msmith09571: check what are the permission clisp is running under 03:35:21 -rw-r--r-- 1 mike mike 10717 Oct 18 23:30 8puzzle.lisp 03:35:33 and see if you don't have some "extra" stuff (SElinux etc.) 03:35:46 ooo 03:36:17 p_l what do you mean by perm clisp is runing under ? 03:36:35 i launched it from the same username the lisp file is owned by, if thats what you mean 03:38:15 try seeing if perchance clisp didn't get different perms 03:38:16 rootlocus [~rootlocus@101.119.17.7] has joined #lisp 03:38:32 i'm not sure what you mean 03:38:37 the clisp install ? 03:39:23 http://www.rhinocerus.net/forum/lang-lisp/644735-cl-sendmail.html 03:39:35 i am having a problem matching the one described in this link 03:41:21 how are you loading 8puzzle? 03:42:10 is it often necessary to edit packages that have come from quicklisp? 03:42:13 hm, after cleaning up the .fas and .lib files, it seems to work now 03:42:47 hm, maybe you compiled the file previously as root 03:42:49 this was happening earlier when i tried doing (load (compile-file "f")) and also when just trying clisp -C i believe 03:43:13 i dont think so, because i deleted them as a user 03:43:16 oh well 03:43:20 weird 03:44:16 duko: no, not often 03:44:32 duko: I'd strongly recommend against it 03:45:29 duko: it's better to checkout the latest version into quicklisp-projects/ and edit it 03:45:50 duko: do you want to send email through smtp? 03:47:04 ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@184.90.25.102] has joined #lisp 03:47:36 if so, why not just use cl-smtp, it's easy as in (cl-smtp:send-email "smtp.gmail.com" "x@gmail.com" "x@gmail.com" "Subject" "Body" :ssl t :port 587 :authentication '(:login "x@gmail.com" "password")) 03:50:11 stassats: ok I'll do that 03:51:34 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 03:57:45 steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:57:56 -!- oubiwann [~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:58:15 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:34 after mucking commonqt to work without closer-mop, it fails at somewhere at ffi, no surprise there 04:06:27 -!- ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-152.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:06:30 oubiwann [~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:06 -!- estefani [~canaima@190.200.20.138] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:08:07 ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-152.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:52 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: catmtking] 04:13:29 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.35.105] has joined #lisp 04:14:04 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 04:18:07 -!- ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@184.90.25.102] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:19:20 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-187.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:42 PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-187.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 04:20:45 _nix00 [~Adium@116.226.81.77] has joined #lisp 04:21:10 duko: I finally figured out how to use cl-sendmail 04:21:15 it wasn't easy 04:22:06 -!- msmith09571 [~Mike@c-76-124-107-175.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 04:22:22 I hope there's a more intuitive way than this: https://gist.github.com/3916212 04:22:32 but there ya go, cl-sendmail in action for HTML emails 04:24:00 is there any difference between () and nil? 04:24:05 no 04:24:15 one's a character longer 04:24:17 () is shorter 04:25:17 () also will stop working when you do (set-syntax-from-char #\( #\a ) 04:25:44 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:08 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:16 and it gets hilighted differently under some emacs configurations, too! 04:28:51 well, that's not really relevant! 04:28:58 (as if set-syntax-from-char is) 04:29:12 I tried to parse that as a lisp form 04:29:27 was confused 04:30:30 well, whaddaya know, commonqt might actually work on abcl 04:31:15 there appears to be several issues with EQ not being the same as everywhere else on EQL and some other problems, but otherwise, it seems to be in a good shape 04:31:22 other type problems 04:32:07 msmith09571 [~Mike@c-76-124-107-175.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:33 ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@184.90.25.102] has joined #lisp 04:36:03 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 04:39:13 -!- msmith09571 [~Mike@c-76-124-107-175.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:40:08 msmith0957 [~Mike@c-76-124-107-175.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:09 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:42:43 |3b|` [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:43:48 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44:36 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 04:45:29 ... no wonder ido is so slow. They match 3 regexes per item with mapcar... 04:45:41 -!- PuercoPo` [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:46:09 #emacs is in another castle 04:46:17 stassats, oh, right 04:47:44 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 04:49:03 -!- ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@184.90.25.102] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:54:24 I want to test the performance of three search algorithms i have. What are some good performance measures i can use? I was thinking i can see how many puzles each can solve within some time limit. I could test the average number of nodes traversed. any other ideas ? 04:55:41 how long it will take to solve 100,000 puzzles 04:57:00 trivial-timeout + how many puzzles wasn't such a bad idea either though 04:57:13 -!- oubiwann [~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:57:28 yeah, those seem to be the 'obvious' choices 04:57:43 no, i don't trust timeouts 04:58:24 well, i think ive concluded my one algorithm is extremely slow. it comes down to the same performance measure whether you do a time out or static number of puzzles. its time per puzzle 04:59:13 er, by same i mean reciprocally speaking 04:59:48 but i guess the problem is the data distribution ? 04:59:59 is that what you were alluding to stassats ? 05:00:01 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:06 oops, hes gone 05:00:44 but i guess what im saying is if i do the same time for each, and i only get 100 samples with AlgorithmA, and 100,000 samples with AlgorithmB, the results arent very meaningful 05:02:02 I forget what its called from stat.. but the expected error is greater with less samples, so it may not be a realistic comparison 05:03:37 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 05:03:50 I think it's a pretty sure bet it's slower if algorithma only has time to do 100 samples 05:04:42 compared to 3 orders of magnitude more in algorithmb 05:05:41 hah yes, it is enough samples to at least conclude that much. but its the rate at which how much slower it is 05:07:10 just find how long it takes to get a large number of puzzles solved for algorithmA (slow algorithm), then set a timeout for algorithmB for that long 05:07:18 an see how many it solves 05:08:07 should get a pretty clear view of how much slower it is then, I think 05:08:16 yes, i think you're right 05:09:34 is (time (..)) good to use for this ? 05:09:58 yes 05:11:14 oohh, shows the memory footprint as well 05:11:15 very nice 05:11:19 -!- duko [~duko@cpe-76-174-26-24.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 05:14:34 is it possible to show cpu cycles required to process the function as opposed to just time-span ? 05:14:49 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@101.119.17.7] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 05:15:07 i saw some implementations of time show this, but i'm not sure if thats the count of cycles localized to lisp 05:19:11 -!- xyxu [~Adium@58.41.1.172] has left #lisp 05:23:52 I'm not sure how, but I'm 99% sure that such a function (if it exists) would be defined as an implementation specific extension. I explored the definition of time in sbcl and found some functions that *may* be used to calculate CPU cycles directly 05:24:02 xecycle [~user@2001:da8:8000:e104:ca0a:a9ff:fe72:7a0d] has joined #lisp 05:24:30 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-180-242.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:24:59 oh wait, I think I misunderstood your question 05:25:16 so to answer it straight: I don't know 05:25:18 Can I tell ~E to output e rather than d? 05:27:30 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-rdqsuzrpnsuepyvk] has joined #lisp 05:27:30 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-rdqsuzrpnsuepyvk] has quit [Changing host] 05:27:30 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:27:54 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.26.153.8] has joined #lisp 05:29:26 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-131-159.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:35 Hmm. I mean, in Common Lisp, (format nil "~e" some-double-float-number) gives me something like 3.1415d0. I'd like to see 3.1415e0, what to do? 05:32:27 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 05:33:03 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.26.153.8] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 05:33:57 jjkola_work_ [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 05:35:33 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:35:33 -!- jjkola_work_ is now known as jjkola_work 05:35:43 does ~E do the same thing for you ? 05:36:08 on my clisp its E 05:36:44 teggi [~teggi@113.173.25.187] has joined #lisp 05:37:12 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:38:34 I'm using sbcl. Yes, ~e and ~E both gives d. 05:38:53 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 05:41:30 xecycle: looks crazy, but try (format t "~,,,,,,'eE" some-double-float-number) 05:41:39 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:42:32 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:43:02 joekarma: Thank that works. Where's the spec in CLHS? 05:43:15 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/22_ccb.htm 05:43:33 from emacs, C-c C-d ~ E 05:44:15 Wow, this is amazing. 05:44:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-181.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:44:56 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.226.81.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:45:32 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_e.htm#exponent_marker 05:46:08 Thanks :) 05:46:18 no problem 05:47:41 _danb_ [~user@124-171-19-81.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:48:49 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:29 -!- xecycle [~user@2001:da8:8000:e104:ca0a:a9ff:fe72:7a0d] has left #lisp 05:50:26 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:54:22 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 06:00:36 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-131-159.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:59 -!- 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#lisp 07:49:49 -!- dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:50:11 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-160-71.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:52:38 dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 07:53:02 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:53:29 what an efficient way to check if an array i have is contained in a list of arrays 07:54:13 currently, im testing for (member arr list-arrays :test #'equalp) but i think it gets really slow when theres thousands of arrays 07:55:32 im not sure if translating the array into some string representation would allow for a quicker comparison 07:56:08 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 07:57:52 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 07:59:03 springz [~springz@118-163-74-175.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 07:59:28 rootlocus [~rootlocus@101.119.17.7] has joined #lisp 08:01:25 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:02:19 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 08:02:39 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 08:05:01 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:08:02 -!- ioa [~ioa@dynamic2-249-006.usc.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09:07 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:10:43 msmith0957: if lookup is what you have to do, then use a hashtable 08:11:06 yeah, just started looking at the docs for one 08:11:20 heh. this hipster cafe in berlin mitte is crowded with startup folks who meet up to talk monthly. a russian guy starts chatting with me, we talk about what do you do, what do i do. i say i'm a programmer working for an insurance co., he says he met someone yesterday who's also into programming and who has this programming language that is used by insurance companies. 08:11:21 would it be inefficient to hash the whole array ? 08:11:34 he looks it up in his phone, funny name, says it would be "lisp". 08:11:39 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 08:12:27 turns out that he met a coworker of marco baringer, they're doing a mobile apps/hipster startup. and i'm probably the reason why that guy claimed that lisp is used in insurance companies :D 08:12:54 lol 08:13:12 i also once worked for a shop who did software for insurance company, but the shop was all M$, and they system being built was to replace an older one, which clearly had some lisp in it 08:13:58 not common lisp, though 08:14:05 peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 08:14:05 i think they had their own interpreter in there 08:14:32 well, here in the startup scene, all talk is so cheap. i need to drop that i worked for banks, once in a while, just so that people banks run lisp. 08:14:49 "viral programming language marketing" 08:15:54 pirateking9_9 [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 08:15:57 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 08:16:15 H4ns: spreading self-fulfilling prophecies that is\ 08:16:52 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@101.119.17.7] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 08:17:30 jdz: if using a hash table, and all i care about are the keys, can i just set all the values you NIL or should they be a little different 08:17:51 to NIL* 08:17:59 msmith0957: i'd use T as value 08:18:17 msmith0957: so you don't have to look at the second value of gethash 08:18:24 oh right 08:18:33 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:18:33 -!- pirateking9_9 is now known as pirateking-_- 08:18:33 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:18:43 but, was more wondering if the values had to be at least a little bit different from the rest 08:18:52 i 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#lisp 09:17:59 _nix00 [~Adium@116.226.81.77] has joined #lisp 09:21:41 bitonic [~user@146.169.24.50] has joined #lisp 09:23:16 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 09:26:48 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-160-71.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:07 Artheist [~quassel@195.68.4.98] has joined #lisp 09:28:55 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:32:35 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.162] has joined #lisp 09:35:58 -!- cornihilio [~user@nfmv001078036.uqw.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:37:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@70-181.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:40:44 cornihilio [~user@nfmv001078036.uqw.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:41:31 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:41:46 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:43:02 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-022-241.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:45:07 -!- cornihilio [~user@nfmv001078036.uqw.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:04 -!- hilbert [~Hilbert@7-111-204-62-static.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 09:46:29 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 09:46:43 H4ns: when calling (hunchentoot:cookie-in "string") returns the cookie value, not the cookie object. is that intended or is the documentation off on weitz.de/hunchentoot ? set-cookie does return a cookie object and uses the name "cookie" as a result of the documentation too. i find it sane to return hunchentoot:cookie-in (but i'm seemingly supposed to trust the docs, not reality) 09:47:19 madnificent: you are supposed to trust the documentation. if it incorrect, there is a bug. 09:48:14 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.226.81.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:50:09 H4ns: for me the current implementation makes /more/ sense than the documentation. it makes sense to return the value of the cookie, not the cookie object, as the http header doesn't contain all the information which was set in the cookie object. which could be unexpected. 09:50:24 madnificent: the documentation says "as sent by the browser" 09:50:45 madnificent: so i think it is correct. i agree that the wording could be better. 09:50:47 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 09:50:50 yes, but the result says => cookie 09:51:01 madnificent: that is a bug. 09:51:06 i'll fix it, thanks. 09:51:14 will you fix the docs, or the implementation? 09:51:23 the docs. 09:51:28 great! 09:51:30 thanks a lot! 09:58:25 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:58:43 -!- tiglog [~topeak@61.149.226.120] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:59:04 -!- msmith0957 [~Mike@c-76-124-107-175.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 09:59:32 -!- bitonic [~user@146.169.24.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:00:58 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 10:01:25 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:01:36 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:03:28 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 10:04:41 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-187.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:05:34 msmith0957 [~Mike@c-76-124-107-175.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:43 bitonic [~user@146.169.24.50] has joined #lisp 10:05:46 any easy to use plotting libraries out there ? 10:06:29 or am i better of just saving data to a flat file and plotting with another tool 10:06:33 better off* 10:07:22 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 10:08:32 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:08:38 msmith0957: vecto is nice for making images, it seems. you can also use cl-2d for some simple plots. if you're going to do complex things, perhaps spitting out the data and plotting through gnuplot can be good. 10:09:00 i'll look into those 10:09:05 msmith0957: if you're plotting the speed of your solution, cl-2d should suffice :) 10:09:10 fairly simple stuff, just want to plot a distribution of points 10:09:22 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 10:09:23 http://tkpapp.blogspot.be/2009/05/announcing-cl-2d.html 10:09:43 vecto is more for drawing images and abstract lines, not for graphs 10:10:22 http://paste.lisp.org/display/132910 10:10:25 msmith0957: i used cl-2d for a similar assignment about two years ago without regret. YMMV though. and there may be other solutions available too, that's just what i picked. 10:10:53 right now i just spit out something like that, but thought itd be nice to visualize 10:12:11 i don't know what your assignment is (and don't need to know), so i don't know what they expect. i think i plotted some info on a markov chain in it, or something of the likes. 10:12:58 ahh 10:13:08 yeah, mines just an 8puzzle solver, if youre familiar with that 10:14:18 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:15:03 basicaly just starting w/ some randomized 3x3 puzzle, and need to move the tiles around to get to the goal state 10:15:29 but, now i'm just analyzing performance 10:15:29 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:16:00 it's fairly straight forward asssignment, but my first lisp program so was a bit of a challenge for myself 10:17:15 msmith0957: the use of lisp in your assignments will pay off in your further education. 10:17:51 it's definitely opened my eyes to the functional programming world, but i can't say i'll be using too many functional languages in the future 10:18:20 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-160-71.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:22:09 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 10:25:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:26:26 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:28:00 -!- piko [~piko@ip4-83-240-108-205.cust.nbox.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:31:16 lisp has very little todo with functional programming... 10:31:41 for one, very little is immutable 10:32:11 (push ...) is not functional in any sense of the word, nor is setf 10:34:36 cornihilio [~user@nfmv001078036.uqw.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:35:04 ams: push updates the location a variable points to, but it doesn't update the original list. so it's more functional than could be. if you catch my drift. 10:35:35 but yes, lisp is much more than just a functional programming language 10:35:38 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-190-243.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:01 functional programming is more of a style than an intrinsic property of a language 10:36:48 once again, i show how little i know 10:36:51 madnificent: "updates the location of a variable" right, mutable, ergo, not functional. 10:37:41 lambda programming might be a more apt word to describe lisp 10:37:41 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-54-12.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:37:46 ams: as long as its a local variable, I'd read that as FP just fine... 10:38:10 flip214: Nope ... 10:38:30 this debate is getting heated 10:38:56 msmith0957: welcome to the land of lisp where the fire is always a blaze 10:40:21 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:40:51 you'll never be cold here =) 10:41:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.170] has joined #lisp 10:41:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.170] has quit [Changing host] 10:41:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:41:20 homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-133-92.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:41:29 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 10:43:37 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 10:44:17 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 10:45:15 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:16 taylanub [tub@p4FD94FE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:46:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:47:00 -!- ska80 [~user@203.146.146.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:49:55 -!- H4ns changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Hunchentoot 1.2.7, Drakma 1.2.9, SBCL 1.1.0, cl-irc 0.9.1 10:50:38 ams: IMU a function may allocate a local array, (SETF) in it as much as it wants, and still be considered FP - because there are no effects visible outside of the function. 10:52:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-181.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:53:05 flip214: No, it may not. 10:53:17 Not in a purley functional language. 10:53:38 lets agree to disagree 10:53:55 msmith0957: I have nothing to disagree about, you're wrong :_) 10:54:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-181.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:55:17 ams: a function is something that returns always the same output for the same input, and has no side-effects. right? 10:55:54 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.35.105] has quit [Quit: ...] 10:56:32 flip214: You are changing subjects now. 10:56:48 no, I'd like to see where we disagree. 10:57:06 that's my understanding of FP - is it yours, too? 10:57:30 flip214: Scroll up, i never talked about functions or how they behave. I talked about mutability. 10:57:56 IMO we're talking about functional programming... 10:59:00 yes, and mutability is a prerequisit for functional programming (pure such anyway) 10:59:16 ams: now you're not making sense 11:00:33 ams: Is (defun f1 (a) (+ 2 (or a 1))) FP? 11:00:49 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:00:52 ams: Is (defun f1 (a) (if (not a) (setf a 1)) (+ 2 a)) FP? 11:01:17 flip214: In common lisp? No, since defun reassigns f1. 11:02:34 you seem to _want_ to misunderstand me. please read "lambda" instead of "defun f1", and answer again. 11:02:37 flip214: Ignoring that, the first would be closer to fp than the second. 11:03:04 ams: why? both are _identical_ in (visible) behaviour. what's "closer"? 11:03:07 mostly since a should be whatever you passed to f1 throughout the scope of f1. 11:03:20 i.e. 11:03:38 flip214: one benefit of functional programming is that the lack of mutability makes reasoning about code easier. 11:03:39 (lambda (a) a a a (setf a 123) a) should return the original a, and not 123. 11:03:50 i.e. the above is not fp 11:03:58 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:04:07 flip214: you can certainly write pure functions that use mutability internally, but you're losing one important benefit of functional programs if you do. 11:04:17 ((lambda (a) a a a (setf a 123) a) 456) --> 123 11:04:28 should be 456 in a fp environment. 11:04:30 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:04:31 Functionnal programming means functions are first class object. And that's about it. Right? 11:04:31 H4ns: I know, but there seems to be a disagreement about allowing mutability _contained_ within a function. 11:04:47 flip214: functional programming is a style, not a religion. 11:05:01 (well that allows for Higher Order Functions, and composability, that's what important I think) 11:05:13 flip214: claiming that you write "functional style" code with "setf" shows that you're not really understanding the style. 11:05:17 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 11:05:31 well, internal mutability is sometimes necessary for performance ... 11:05:59 flip214: isn't CL great? If you need non-functional, it's available... 11:06:01 flip214: FP can be just as performant as anything else. 11:06:05 flip214: right. sometimes, functional style cannot be used for performance reasons. this is why common lisp is great. it allows mixing styles. 11:06:12 and eg. MD5 is a pure function, but _every_ implementation uses a local array that gets changed. Of course, a purely functional way would be possible, but why bother? 11:06:24 flip214: Cause it would be cleaner? 11:06:44 Cause it would be something you could reason with, and do proofs on? 11:08:05 I've never heard anyone complain about performance from erlang for example, which is totally functional, and immutable ... 11:08:11 -!- bitonic [~user@146.169.24.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:08:20 ams: you need to listen more carefully 11:08:39 H4ns: Oh, no, nah.. useless. I lov eyou too, wanna have a cup of coffe? 11:08:46 read http://prog21.dadgum.com/54.html 11:09:00 erlang is not immutable 11:09:07 do you already use erlang before? 11:09:11 did, even 11:09:28 dim: uhm, yeah, i do, daily. 11:09:33 dadgum is smoking pot. 11:09:37 ams: please. no milk, no sugar. 11:09:45 you know about the record "type" in erlang, then, ams? 11:10:10 dim: quite familiar with it. 11:10:17 i just used it =) 11:10:26 and yet you claim erlang immutable? 11:10:54 dim: first of all, sonny, dadgum isn't even talking about that 11:11:10 I am. 11:11:21 can't you focus? 11:11:26 ok i'll stop here 11:11:33 dim: when you change topics willy nilly? no. 11:11:35 I'm just trying to show you how difficult you are 11:11:35 i'm old. 11:11:38 and I hate doing that 11:11:54 grannyfight! GO! 11:12:00 -!- _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: _d3f] 11:12:02 hehe 11:12:09 sorry, ETOOYOUNG 11:12:23 dim: you're the one who can't stick to a topic, you are showing dadgum's article as proof of erlangs non-immutability, then you change topics to something else entierly. 11:12:44 I'm not, please stop putting words and intentions in my messages here 11:13:00 your logic does not apply when you read my messages, you know? 11:13:03 13:08 read http://prog21.dadgum.com/54.html 11:13:04 13:09 erlang is not immutable 11:13:05 they call that communication I believe 11:13:07 does not speak about records. 11:13:13 can we conclude that common lisp is not a functional programming language and get on with it. 11:13:17 and if you want, i can call up joe 11:13:25 if you two want to fight, maybe go somewhere else 11:13:30 do you really believe that any two consecutives lines are meant to deal with the same subject? 11:13:45 dim: when those consecutive lines include a whole !@#$ article? yes. 11:13:58 H4ns: I'd like it if we could (conclude avec CL and FP) 11:13:59 _d3f [~d3f@nl1.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 11:14:03 H4ns is just jealous, cause he isn't allowed to play with us =) 11:16:46 Natch_g [~Natch@c-eccde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:17:38 ams: it would be nice if you'd be a tad less egocentric from time to time. this is a happy place. please keep it that way. 11:17:48 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-eccde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:18:54 I'm following these instructions: http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html?thread=674335 I've arrived to here: "(ql:quickload "swatchblade")" only using my own project name, of course. I get this: "Error while trying to load definition for system lat-il from pathname /home/l/src/lisp/lat-il/lat-il.asd: The name "ITERATE" does not designate any package." What did I miss? 11:19:01 madnificent: You should look up the meaning of the word egocentric. 11:19:26 drl: you need to load iterate, either explictly or as a dependency of your own system. 11:19:42 defining the dependencies? 11:20:05 nha [~prefect@koln-5d814976.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:34 drl: forgot to add iterate in your defsystem maybe? 11:21:36 ams: and you should try /leave . but i think you know what /leave does, and i know the meaning of egocentric. so let's stay with "happy place" and try to be nice, shall we? 11:22:18 13:22 /ignore madnificent 11:22:21 Not it is a happy place again. 11:22:36 13:22 /ignore madnificent 11:22:40 whoops, sorry. 11:22:43 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 11:24:11 H4ns and ams: iterate should be a :depends-on in the asd file? 11:24:32 drl: right 11:24:45 drl: ^^ 11:25:12 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-124-003.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:25 rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-168-31-20.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:25:34 well, I wouldn't regard ignoring madnificent as a good move ... makes getting answers to questions a bit harder. but well, each to his own. 11:29:49 -!- xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:30:53 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-54-12.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 11:31:04 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:31:40 marijn [~user@p4FC96F6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:32:29 drl: it's odd to have package-prefixed symbols in an .asd file 11:32:43 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o Krystof 11:33:14 -!- riccardo [~riccardo@host232-81-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 11:35:17 Xach: what do you mean? 11:36:56 -!- springz [~springz@118-163-74-175.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:37:40 have any of you guys played with slip much? what do you think of it? http://slip.lisperator.net/ 11:38:43 -!- Natch_g [~Natch@c-eccde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:29 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:44:03 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:47:32 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 11:47:50 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d814976.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction." -- attributed to Albert Einstein] 11:50:19 rmathews [~roshan@117.193.210.183] has joined #lisp 11:53:06 `fogus [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 11:54:17 -!- `fogus [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:54:51 rootlocus_ [~rootlocus@124-168-31-20.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:55:13 -!- msmith0957 [~Mike@c-76-124-107-175.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 11:57:56 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:01:39 hello? 12:02:16 cornihilio: sorry, it seems to be quiet in here 12:02:38 cornihilio: i haven't used it. this channel is about common lisp, and slip doesn't seem to be an implementation of it. 12:03:38 cornihilio: so, there's a fair chance that you won't find much here. however, it's also javascript, which some of us use and talk to (if in an s-expression syntax mainly through parenscript), so if you lurk around you may have some luck. 12:03:40 I've tried out parenscript which seems similar but it does not implement a lisp system in javascript, only compiles to javascript 12:03:45 I could be wrong 12:04:27 -!- rootlocus_ [~rootlocus@124-168-31-20.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 12:04:38 cornihilio: if people use it here, i think they'll be using it as a way to generate javascript from an s-expression syntax. it look interesting though :) 12:05:36 Adeon: you're right. parenscript is just some way to generate raw javascript. Slip seems to be something written in javascript, which evaluates s-expressions (in javascript). though that could be a good thing. 12:12:40 Natch [~Natch@c-eccde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:18:24 mm... it is days like this i get reminded why i dislike c .. 12:21:16 xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:22:13 bobhica [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 12:22:30 Kvaks [~quassel@95.161.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 12:23:03 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 12:23:17 drl: I mean having something like iterate:foo in an .asd file is unusual. 12:23:42 agumonkey [~agu@199.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:53 drl: usually an .asd file has the declarative specification of a system, and occasionally more 12:24:01 is there a way to do case insensitive match with ppcre:scan ? 12:24:58 bobhica: start your regular expression with (?i) https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/cl-ppcre/XkNByKnuXf0 12:25:51 thanks! 12:26:24 drl: can you paste your .asd? 12:27:12 did someone make perl-like regex reader syntax for common lisp? :) 12:27:22 bobhica: cl-interpol 12:27:35 really? checking it out 12:33:10 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/+2UKJ 12:33:51 drl: that is the wrong place for a defpackage form 12:34:18 drl: that is for package.lisp 12:34:20 bobhica: i'm misinterpreting it, i guess, but you can give 'normal' regular expressions to cl-ppcre. it has two forms of syntax. 12:34:33 You don't need (in-package #:asdf) either. 12:34:57 drl: and you should use :depends-on, not :defsystem-depends-on 12:36:21 -!- marijn [~user@p4FC96F6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:37:18 drl: i often write (asdf:defpackage ...) when in org-babel, if that helps you 12:37:54 Xach: That fixed it. Thanks! 12:38:18 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:39:22 there's no (setf length), can I make a string shorter in some similar way? (make-string, not as adjustable defined) 12:40:10 flip214: you want to truncate it? 12:40:18 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-54-12.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:40:46 yes. Or can I get an adjustable string back from alexandria:read-file-into-string ? 12:41:29 just truncate it .. 12:41:54 ams: adjustable goes both ways 12:42:07 well, grow it then with something ... 12:42:32 subseq/concatenate 12:42:36 ams: TRUNCATE is like FLOOR, it doesn't operate on strings. 12:42:53 flip214: no, you can't 12:43:18 H4ns: thank you. 12:43:37 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43:37 flip214: i wasn't refering to the function truncate, but to the operation of truncation. 12:43:38 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has left #lisp 12:44:11 madnificent i was just curious if there was a reader macro syntax like the perl one. ie s/foo/bar 12:44:15 flip214: apropos is your friend. 12:45:55 bobhica: cl-interpol is just for reading regular expressions, not for calling cl-ppcre:regexp-replace 12:45:59 -!- guyal [~guyal@174-143-244-209.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:46:00 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 12:50:04 pjb- [~pjb-@85-168-203-92.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 12:54:33 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 12:54:48 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:56:04 steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 12:57:31 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-132-142.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:58:52 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-168-31-20.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:00:46 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:01:08 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 13:04:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.19.13] has joined #lisp 13:04:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.19.13] has quit [Changing host] 13:04:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:07:59 -!- pjb- [~pjb-@85-168-203-92.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: from my iPad] 13:08:27 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:42 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:20 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:12:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:13:49 b____ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:14:57 Hi,what would be the best way to write lisp bindings for allegro5 game library for common lisp? Do I need to write the whole stuff by hand or some automation exists? 13:15:00 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@245.151.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:15:01 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@245.151.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 13:15:36 b____: swig supports cffi http://www.swig.org/Doc1.3/Lisp.html 13:17:03 nice, thanks 13:17:03 <|3b|`> depends on your criteria for 'best', autogenerated bindings usually don't have a very nice API, but writing by hand is a lot slower (especially if you stop to think about how to make a nicer API) 13:17:10 -!- |3b|` is now known as |3b| 13:17:36 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:17:37 I wish for 'best' something like: http://cl-alleg.sourceforge.net/ 13:18:17 bitonic [~user@146.169.24.94] has joined #lisp 13:18:29 *|3b|* usually does a bit of both, starting with something autogenerated then hand editing that 13:19:18 yes, was thinking the same.. 13:19:31 <|3b|> also depends on how often the C api changes, how big it is, whether there are any machine readable description of the API (possibly from a spec, or for some other language's bindings for example) 13:19:42 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-brnojkygvmwdqiaj] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:20:56 I am learning C and used allegro5 api, so by machine readable, i can only see the header files for allegro 13:21:26 -!- bobhica [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: quit] 13:21:30 the api is easy to use, i like it better than allegro4 13:21:49 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 13:21:49 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 13:21:49 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:21:53 bobhica [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 13:23:07 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:23:40 the chicken scheme bindings should be relatively easy to convert 13:23:51 maybe easier than wrestling with swig. 13:25:25 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:25 paul0 [~user@186.222.48.210] has joined #lisp 13:27:57 hmm 13:28:16 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 13:28:24 Guys, can i type a here a relatively long paragraph, to describe the problem, i need to explain background which is getting lenghty :( 13:29:08 ryepup` [~user@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 13:29:21 appreciation will depend on what the problem is about. if it is about your cat or your lunch, you might set up some people. 13:30:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-181.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:31:19 its about programming languages and umm my search for what i should use :( 13:31:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-181.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:31:41 use common lisp. no need to type in long paragraphs. 13:32:04 shouldn't that be a happy smily. and i'd assume that #some-lang will tell you that you should use #some-lang. obviously, only #lisp is right. 13:33:04 not happy smily because there is always something missing 13:33:13 i am gonna risk it and pasting here the paragraph 13:33:33 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 13:34:26 is there a future roadmap for sbcl? 13:34:27 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:34:57 Paragraph: 13:34:59 i started from java, met sicp, read and exercised scheme till chap 4 middle(metalinguistic abstraction), went to common lisp, 13:35:00 liked it very very much but then i found that most of actual machine talk is done in C and all other languages have to do this binding stuff to it, so i thought i must understand C 13:35:00 so i started with C and i liked C but then i found myself writing a lot of boilerplate code to do simple things in C, so i started unconsciously something with pointers to functions in structure 13:35:00 and other similar stuff.. which began reminding me of Java, so it felt like i was reinventing the whole thing, so i started looking into how compilers work 13:35:03 so i could express myself simply and then have it translate to C, so i found compiler is a lot of computer science theory and i am an electrical enginner, 13:35:08 so anyway i learnt what i could reading C compiler books (work in progress), so got used to new words lexing, parsing etc but it seems to be a lot of work and i want to write some games 13:35:10 so i remembered lisp again and how i had macros and lisp reader etc to help in this and with C 13:35:13 so today i feel it is best if i dont want to blow myself learning all languages, learn the extremes 13:35:14 assembly,linking,loading,C stuff, Lisp and CFFI and compiler writing in Lisp, not in C 13:35:23 b____: who's supposed to read that here? 13:35:52 well so only asking the last two lines, is my conclusion correct? 13:36:34 b____: there is no "correct" in language choice. you need to learn a few languages before you're a good programmer. it does not matter too much which one you learn first 13:37:07 b____: by choosing a language that is popular in the domain of the programs that you intend to write, you can save yourself a lot of frustration because you'll find help for your problems. 13:37:10 b____: if you want to know about expressive languages, then common lisp is a sane choice. it's a flexible language in which many programming paradigms can be used. 13:37:26 b____: i don't think it'd have been very hard to shorten that text though ;) 13:37:39 It helps, I think, to not think of all subsequent languages in terms of the one you happened to learn first. 13:37:40 b____: and from that perspective, common lisp is not a particularily great choice of a first programming language because it is not particularily popular in any domain. 13:37:50 incf Xach 13:38:23 Xach: that is something one has to discover, i think, when learning the third and fourth language 13:38:49 H4ns: or, put in other words, common lisp is equally great choice in any domain :) 13:38:50 H4ns: i disagree with lisp being a bad language to start out with to be honest. at least not if your focus is 'wanting to learn how to program'. if you 'want to control a microcontroller' things are different imo. 13:39:00 <|3b|> lisp is also a nice language for learning compiler stuff, since you can start with something lisp-like for the language, and skip all the parsing/lexing complexity you need to deal with for c-like languages and go straight to the fun part of actually compiling stuff 13:39:23 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has left #lisp 13:39:28 H4ns: hopefully 13:39:34 jdz: right. 13:39:47 <|3b|> (or skip the compiling side and parse/lex to lisp and let the lisp compile that, if surface syntax is what you want to explore) 13:39:48 "equidistant from all points in the solution space" 13:40:20 i also did not mean to imply that help cannot be found for common lisp. it is just that it is harder to find people in the very same problem domain. 13:40:40 *|3b|* points at #lispgames for the mentioned problem domain 13:40:41 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:40:53 Lisp's core occupies some kind of local optimum in the space of programming languages. Modest words from John McCarthy, inventor of lisp. 13:41:09 (requoted out of let over lambda) 13:41:25 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:41:29 *|3b|* notes that actually shipping games in CL can be a bit of a hassle though 13:42:11 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:42:50 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:44:41 |3b| why? 13:46:03 <|3b|> legitimate implementation choices that happen to be annoying for the particular use, like large binaries, or platform support 13:46:30 `fogus [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 13:47:12 I also tried Ocaml and Python, Ocaml compiles to native and I like the language but I would rather stick to lisp in expressive languages set 13:47:12 <|3b|> or trying to map huge amounts of address space 13:47:37 <|3b|> b____: many CL implementations have native compilers 13:49:23 most, even 13:50:27 then the only point of choosing C is 1. lazy to do bindings 2. dont want garbage collection as i expect even natives in ocaml and lisp must be having integrated gc code running in executable 13:51:23 point 2, i hate remembering to use free and the right points though i like knowing exactly how the program is laid out in C so hence my patch is chosen 13:51:39 not be lazy, do bindings when i need to and have peace in life with lisp 13:51:49 how do I pass a pointer to pointer to int to a C function? 13:51:57 sorry, just a pointer to int. int * 13:51:59 Just use bindings other people have made already :) 13:52:26 moore33: sometimes i find myself the 'other people' 13:52:45 Yeah, it happens. 13:53:16 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 13:53:35 patch is chosen = path* is chosen heheh, my keyboard sucks not me! 13:54:49 [SLB]` [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 13:55:02 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 13:55:48 suppose I have a C function like this: void doit (int *p) { *p = 10; }. how would I call it from lisp? 13:56:29 bobhica: you'll need to read the manual of the ffi that you use. 13:56:30 I don't know how to handle pointers in lisp 13:56:40 bobhica: read the manual, then you'll know. 13:56:51 arrrgh fare-memo seems to clobber slime arglist hints. 13:57:02 it seemed like such a good deal earlier 13:57:25 -!- bitonic [~user@146.169.24.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:57:54 bobhica: i also dont know but i was looking at allegro4 bindings and it has such stuff as: (defcvar "gfx_driver" :pointer) 13:58:20 and (defcfun "get_gfx_mode_list" :pointer 13:58:20 (card :int)) 13:58:37 thanks but I am using sbcl 13:59:04 ermm, i thought this cffi was supported by most lisp implementations but not sure 13:59:33 jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:07 from its website: cl-alleg provides a foreign function interface for the Allegro games library. This is built on top of CFFI and so should be portable across multiple common lisp implementations. 14:00:26 yeah cffi works in sbcl 14:02:11 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:02:24 -!- ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-152.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:04:17 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:13 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:06:44 mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 14:08:32 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 14:09:13 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:10:46 -!- Euthy` [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:13:02 -!- b____ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:13:15 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-bkjpvhastmlohoef] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:15:08 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 14:15:15 answer_421 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 14:15:18 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:19 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:55 -!- Yuuhi```` [benni@p5483B4E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:17:02 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:28 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:17:28 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B4E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:50 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.241.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:19:07 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:17 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 14:19:39 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:40 ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:20:35 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:21:18 I'm trying to learn how to use buildapp. How do I find the asdf-path? 14:23:06 drl: it is where the file named whatever.asd is 14:23:30 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:24:06 -!- ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:24:14 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:26:35 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:15 ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:27:24 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 14:27:41 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:30:43 steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:32:04 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 14:34:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-114.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:34:52 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Quit: Life is too short] 14:35:04 estefani [~canaima@190.200.20.138] has joined #lisp 14:35:34 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:26 Xach: buildapp --asdf-path ~/src/lisp/lat-il --output il-core --entry lat-il:il-gui --load-system lat-il >>==> Error while trying to load definition for system lat-il from pathname /home/l/src/lisp/lat-il/lat-il.asd: The name "LAT-IL" does not designate any package. 14:38:41 drl: what do you think that means? 14:38:53 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 14:41:43 Xach: I know what it means. I just don't understand why since I just loaded lat-il using quicklisp. So it must exist, no? 14:42:21 drl: buildapp loads things in a fresh environment. so when you made changes to your .asd file, they made it so it wouldn't work in a fresh environment. 14:42:37 I suspect you left (in-package #:lat-il) in there. It has to go. 14:43:11 now, you'll probably have a problem next with loading dependencies. 14:49:05 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:49:55 -!- cpc26 [~user@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:50:42 bitonic [~user@146.169.24.60] has joined #lisp 14:51:22 cpc26 [~user@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 14:51:36 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:51:43 Xach: You are right 14:51:56 about missing dependencies. 14:52:18 drl: here's what I do: sbcl --non-interactive --eval '(ql:write-asdf-manifest-file "manifest.txt")' 14:52:25 then add --manifest-file manifest.txt to buildapp 14:52:36 It is not great, I'm still trying to figure out the best solution. 14:53:39 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 14:54:28 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:42 did anyone read sicp here ? 14:55:03 i don't get the section what is meant by data 14:55:15 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:21 i tried the code there and converted it to cl actually, but it's not working 14:55:53 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:56:25 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:58:47 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:58:50 wbooze: how many pages of google results for 'sicp "common lisp"' have you looked at for help? 14:59:33 H4ns: wouldn't matter if i used scheme instead...... 14:59:42 -!- bitonic [~user@146.169.24.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:59:51 wbooze: do it. plenty people walked that path before you. 15:00:51 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:41 -!- agumonkey [~agu@199.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:04:30 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 15:07:59 wbooze: if google doesn't help you out. a paste with the question may give you better answers than 'sicp' :) but if you can google it, you're not wasting other people's time 15:11:04 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:12:07 ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@184.90.25.102] has joined #lisp 15:13:21 -!- paul0 [~user@186.222.48.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:15:58 Xach: That makes the executable file. Thanks! But I still have one problem. When I try to start the program, I get: invalid number of arguments: 1 15:16:10 drl: What did you use as your entry function? 15:17:42 Xach: il-gui. 15:17:57 lat-il:il-gui 15:18:35 buildapp --asdf-path ~/src/lisp/lat-il --output il-core --entry lat-il:il-gui --load-system lat-il --manifest-file manifest.txt 15:19:09 drl: The entry function is called with the command-line arguments as a list. 15:19:12 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 15:19:17 drl: Your function should accept one argument. 15:19:36 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:03 hilbert [~Hilbert@7-111-204-62-static.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 15:20:31 chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has joined #lisp 15:21:12 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:24:08 atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has joined #lisp 15:24:14 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 15:26:02 only scheme where it is working is mit-scheme yet 15:26:23 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 15:27:01 even chicken does not allow those forms 15:28:56 wbooze: perhaps if you posed a question, the words you type in #lisp would gain meaning. and perhaps, but i really have on idea of knowing that, the answer is simple. a tiny bit of knowledge you haven't read somewhere yet. 15:29:17 oh 15:30:15 madnificient: i was trying the code from sicp, in the chapter what is meant by data, where it goes about abstracting cons, car, cdr as procedures rather then data structures 15:31:03 madnificient: and i was trying to get that code to convert into cl, but failed and was wondering if it works in a real scheme, the one where it works is mit-scheme, it fails even with chicken 15:31:55 -!- atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving, leaving, gone...] 15:32:00 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:32:08 atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has joined #lisp 15:32:21 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 15:32:38 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 15:33:08 jtza8_ [~jtza8@196-215-120-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:33:09 paul0 [~user@201.47.46.244.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 15:33:11 and not to be a know-it-all, but try to use tab-completion for names, they're spelled differently :) can you put your code in a pastie and include the errors and the expected output? we'll be able to admire it and perhaps identify some issues with it. 15:33:43 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 15:33:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-181.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:34:35 Xach: Do you mean I should change the il-gui function in the program to accept an argument even though it doesn't need one? 15:34:46 hohum_ [dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:08 Xach: Sorry for all the dumb questions. 15:35:13 drl: it takes a list. if you don't care about, (defun ... (args) (declare (ignore args)) ...) it :) 15:35:36 hitecnologys_ [~hitecnolo@94.137.0.252] has joined #lisp 15:36:20 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.0.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:36:20 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:36:20 -!- hitecnologys_ is now known as hitecnologys 15:36:38 drl: or add an easter egg (defun ... (args) (when args (format T "I don't take arguments from you sir!")) ...) ; with the ... being what's in the respective places in the function you have now obviously. 15:36:41 -!- hohum [dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:36:44 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 15:36:51 halida [~halida@50-56-93-204.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:55 nooooooooooooo 15:36:58 ojo 15:36:58 l 15:37:00 kll 15:37:00 drl: I mean that whatever function you use as the entry function *must* accept the command-line arguments argument. If you don't need it you can always declare it ignored. 15:37:01 c 15:37:02 -!- rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:37:03 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 15:37:05 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*canaima@190.200.20.* 15:37:07 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 15:37:21 ttm [~The_third@47319hpv099117.ikoula.com] has joined #lisp 15:37:23 -!- Swampert [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rbfcldjfszhuomcy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:37:23 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@47319hpv099117.ikoula.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:37:28 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-92.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:37:36 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-133-92.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:37:52 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:13 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-154-36.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:38:42 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: catmtking] 15:38:49 madnificient: here paste.lisp.org/display/1329 15:38:53 Swampert [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rrmpwxpmadddtnvb] has joined #lisp 15:39:02 rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has joined #lisp 15:39:16 erm sorry http://paste.lisp.org/display/132932 15:39:39 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Quit: ] 15:39:55 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:40:52 That is a pretty deep fail. 15:41:02 Why must you torment #lisp with your ignorance and incompetence? 15:41:09 wbooze: do you want to make a closure? 15:41:24 -!- Artheist [~quassel@195.68.4.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:45 -!- hilbert [~Hilbert@7-111-204-62-static.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 15:41:57 Xach: fuck off! 15:42:10 Xach: if you do it it's ok eh ? 15:42:48 agumonkey [~agu@199.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 wbooze: I hope to get ejected if I go on a months-long epic ramble of nonsense. 15:42:59 atsidi_ [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has joined #lisp 15:43:08 wbooze: mind your language. 15:43:15 wbooze: Xach's comment may not be fully justified, that doesn't mean you should be unfriendly. 15:43:17 -!- ehu` is now known as ehu 15:43:23 i know it's a fail 15:43:27 (and yes, i'm the worst example of that) 15:43:33 -!- atsidi_ [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:38 wbooze: i'll make you an annotated paste, but it's completely different :/ 15:43:43 atsidi_ [~atsidi@mail.tai.edu] has joined #lisp 15:43:46 wbooze: It's strong evidence that you have really picked up nothing in all the time you've spent to date using common lisp. 15:44:00 I don't think more time will be time well invested. Time for a new hobby? 15:44:04 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:18 oh dear MiniLuv! help me :) 15:44:24 lol 15:44:41 Xach: actually i feel pretty much tired today, and i don't know if i make sense if you want to know, but any help is appreciated 15:44:46 -!- atsidi_ [~atsidi@mail.tai.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 15:45:08 -!- atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving, leaving, gone...] 15:45:22 wbooze: in Common Lisp, you must funcall or apply function objects. They can't simply be placed in the head of a form to be evaluated, like in scheme. 15:45:51 wbooze: tiredness is a bad excuse. get some sleep and come back with a clear head. 15:46:20 :/ 15:46:38 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0-dev] 15:47:03 wbooze: And you should return the local function, e.g. #'dispatch, not call it. 15:47:36 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:47:53 aah 15:48:50 wbooze: http://paste.lisp.org/display/132932#1 15:49:31 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.241.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:49:32 wbooze: also, my error message is blatantly wrong in that paste. but i reccon you'll figure that out soon. 15:51:00 -!- lide [~migrayn@83-145-213-33.localloop.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:53:30 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:53:40 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0-dev] 15:53:41 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:54:02 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B4E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:54:46 Xach and madnificent: (defun il-gui (fake-arg) (declare (ignore fake-arg)) ...) >===> invalid number of arguments: 0 15:54:52 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 15:55:03 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 15:55:34 steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 15:55:51 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:56:16 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56:18 drl: Does some other function call il-gui with zero arguments? 15:56:33 drl: If so, you might want to keep il-gui as is, and add il-gui-entry just for quicklisp. 15:59:13 sellout421 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:17 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:00:17 madnificient: ok this worked too http://paste.lisp.org/display/132932#2 16:00:24 Xach: yes! It was supposed to be commented out. Works now. Many thanks! I owe you. Quicklisp, Quickproject, and Bulidapp make things a lot easier. 16:00:29 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:00:42 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B4E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:56 I'm waiting for QuickSolution :) 16:01:00 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 16:01:03 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:24 madnificient: i now see where i failed 16:02:35 wbooze: can you see the tab button on your keyboard? so you see that you can basically start writing the language in the language itself? 16:02:44 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:02:50 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.25.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:35 madnificient: it was not about the funcall stuff, i knew that already, but the utterly failing part was calling the function not returning it 16:04:36 -!- bobhica [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 16:04:37 wbooze: that tab button was hinting towards using tab-completing for the names of people in the channel 16:04:38 sigh 16:04:55 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:05:22 wbooze: i'm glad you understand now. now you can walk forward :) 16:06:17 madnificent: thank you very much, would have never figured that out really 16:06:26 :) 16:06:34 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:06:44 -!- answer_421 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:38 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 16:08:05 madnificent: a second point i failed was the data-structure mentality on the my-car (z) stuff, z being a cons already, why should i call a number on z (feeled very awkward) at first 16:08:07 Hmm, use a property list or define a class / structure... 16:08:42 madnificent: failed to get that it contained a procedure already.... 16:08:52 moore33: depends on what you want. using lambda functions to represent can make perfect sense. and it makes sense especially in didactical cases, which this one was :) 16:09:28 madnificent:I wasn't referring to this discussion, just injecting my own random noise :) 16:09:43 hitecnologys_ [~hitecnolo@94.137.61.74] has joined #lisp 16:10:12 answer_421 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 16:10:13 wbooze: scheme is different in that regard. it has no different namespace for functions and variables. so when you write (variable-name) it will try to execute the function which is contained in that variable name. the upside is that you can easily call functions in variables, the downside is that you must constantly check that your variable names and your function names don't clash. i'm in #lisp, so you can guess that i 16:10:13 separate namespaces. 16:10:37 madnificent: Thanks to you also. 16:10:47 -!- ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@184.90.25.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:11:27 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 16:12:00 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.0.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:12:00 -!- hitecnologys_ is now known as hitecnologys 16:12:15 madnificent: exactly, i didn't get just by glancing at the scheme code, that some procedure was returned there actually, i thought something gets called and that even without it's argument or so i thought, i really failed there totally.... 16:13:05 ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@184.90.25.102] has joined #lisp 16:13:41 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:15:03 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:15:28 kmels [~kmels@p5B13F8A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:30 -!- paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:43 user123abc 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[~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:07:59 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:09:24 Petit_Dejeuner [~moose@108-203-203-37.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:41 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:10:05 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:11:12 All previous functions compile and work, but when I try to compile the communative procedure it fails. Anyone have any idea what might be wrong? http://pastie.org/private/sxrak13ecztdcposcg5ja 17:11:38 your let bindings are borked 17:11:49 bitonic [~user@146.169.24.124] has joined #lisp 17:12:08 in-fix should be a function. 17:12:47 everything should 17:13:21 oh yeah, backwards too. or you could just use reverse, sensibly. 17:13:27 -!- chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0-dev] 17:13:31 I'm just practicing macros. 17:13:59 then you should know when not to use them. 17:14:35 the function doesn't make sense anyway. (4 + 5) doesn't equal (5 + 4). 17:14:40 Oh don't give me that, I don't even know common lisp. Do you have any trivial examples where macros should be used? 17:15:13 but, 4 +5 DOES equal 5 + 4 17:15:21 Petit_Dejeuner: some piece of code that's executed within a lock perhaps? 17:15:28 Petit_Dejeuner: no, but if you want to use macros, I suggest your learn common lisp first. 17:15:36 That's what I'm doing. 17:15:46 minion: please tell Petit_Dejeuner about PCL 17:15:47 Petit_Dejeuner: please look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 17:15:53 I'm reading that righ tnow. 17:15:54 read that, then come back 17:15:54 macros are not the place to start. 17:16:05 but, 4 + 5 DOES equal 5 + 4 <-- yes, but the lists aren't equal. 17:16:25 Bike, Shouldn't they evaluate? 17:16:41 You could evaluate them. It's not going to happen by itself. 17:16:55 and it's invalid common lisp anyhow 17:16:59 I still don't understand why it won't compile. 17:17:17 Petit_Dejeuner: how much of PCL have you read already? 17:17:19 Your let binding is wrong. 17:17:29 stassats, I'm up to the example about creating macros. 17:17:49 Even if it wasn't wrong, the in-fix macro function receives the symbol "EXPR" as an argument, so it can't take the cadr of it or anything 17:18:00 Petit_Dejeuner: when you write a macro, you receive a list of data. the code you entered. so anything you write in the macro itself, is operating on the list only, not on the results that will come later on. what you output from the macro, should be a list representing code (like you did in in-fix). that code is then evaluated and that indeed yields a result. however within your macro, your expressions are just lists of 17:18:03 so, why don't you follow the examples and figure out how they work first? 17:18:35 stassats, alright, I'll do that and see if I can figure this out on my own 17:18:39 I did fix the let though, http://pastie.org/private/rhl33g3lvw606lq6c3lg 17:19:11 Petit_Dejeuner: i, too, strongly suggest learning the basics of the language before dabbling with macros. they're very awesome, but it takes a while to figure out when you should and shouldn't use them. i don't think trying to use them where they don't belong is necessarily bad from a didactical stance, but in real code it shouldn't happen. 17:19:28 The intent of your procedure seems wrong anyway. 2^2 = 2^2 but exponentiation isn't commutative. 17:20:12 that's true, I guess the procedure only tells you if an operation is not if an operator is 17:20:36 daniel3 [~ANDRES1@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 17:20:37 -!- daniel3 is now known as mariagny 17:20:42 madnificent, I'll take that advice 17:20:54 -!- mariagny [~ANDRES1@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 17:20:59 I've never heard of commutativity being applied to operations. It would just tell you if it's... palindromic? 17:21:12 I suppose 17:22:10 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 17:22:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 17:22:10 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:22:41 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.70.45] has joined #lisp 17:24:01 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0-dev] 17:25:07 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 17:25:51 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:26:49 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:27:39 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.61.74] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 17:29:42 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.61.74] has joined #lisp 17:30:39 sellout42 [~Adium@67.51.227.94] has joined #lisp 17:33:38 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0-dev] 17:34:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:36:30 mjs2600 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[~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 18:51:39 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:53:04 -!- answer_421 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:53:31 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:55 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:57:28 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 18:57:57 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-226-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:00:24 hi all. Small question about double float, cl function http://paste.lisp.org/display/132952#2 returns 1.0000721209495802d0, while equal c function returns 1.00007212094958020110 (3 digits more). 19:00:28 iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 19:01:01 that's not a question! 19:01:44 Xach: is it my mistake? 19:02:10 I don't know, sorry. 19:02:30 your c implementation and your lisp implementation have different ideas of how big a double float is, maybe 19:02:35 -!- jjkola [~androirc@193-64-23-181-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Quit: quit] 19:02:49 asvil: I do know that the size of a double float in lisp can vary. i don't know about C in that regard. 19:03:03 nor much about displaying floats 19:03:11 answer_421 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 19:03:30 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:04:40 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:05:16 Bike, probably, because when i disassemble cl function (sbcl), there is "on read" calculation optimization with "lost" digits. 19:05:28 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 19:06:02 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 19:06:31 -!- ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@184.90.25.102] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:17 bearr [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 19:07:33 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:07:35 Xach: yes, in c, I think, double is 64 bits, and in lisp it might be more than 64 bits. 19:07:37 what's a proper lisp type specifier for 8 bit unsigned integer? 19:07:38 asvil: SBCL takes a few bits to store the type of the object with the object. a fixnum, for instance, isn't 64 bit. 19:07:41 -!- bearr is now known as Guest7621 19:07:56 basho: (unsigned-byte 8) 19:08:03 err, Guest7621 that is 19:08:04 thanks 19:08:14 asvil: in C, you need to maintain the types yourself, you need to tell C that what you're giving it is, in fact, a float. 19:08:25 I didn't identify in time and now I can't change my nick back, awesome 19:08:44 This one is better 19:09:13 well, in C, you are just printing them wrong 19:09:27 asvil: a lisp implementation could store the types separately from the objects. but i don't know of any that does it that way. 19:09:58 so if I do (make-array 100 :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)), is that guaranteed to occupy just 1 byte per element? 19:10:06 no 19:10:09 Guest7621: nope. 19:10:16 implementation can ignore the type specifier? 19:10:24 but in practice it will roughly take up that much in sbcl 19:10:29 stassats`: do you mean %.20f is too big? 19:10:31 clhs u-a-e-t 19:10:32 upgraded-array-element-type: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_upgr_1.htm 19:10:55 asvil: yes 19:10:57 Guest7621: yes. what is guaranteed and what is de facto is different. 19:11:16 got it 19:11:18 By "roughly take up that much", there's also the array headers, possible allocation granularity, and so on to consider. 19:11:40 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 19:12:15 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.241.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:12:27 Guest7621: probably, what you want is friendly foreign array 19:12:31 asvil: It would be interesting to do "integer-decode-float" in Lisp, and see a hex dump of the C float, and see whether or not your two floats are the same value. 19:12:32 nyef: with just 100 bytes to allocate in the array, the overhead may be meaningfull. 19:13:00 yeah I asked allocation per element, I know additional bytes are allocated for vector housekeeping 19:13:03 madnificent: Yes. Yes, it may. 19:14:19 -!- agumonkey [~agu@199.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:14:49 -!- rahul__ [~rahul@59.178.33.91] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:17:41 phax [~phax@c-67-161-5-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:42 -!- phax [~phax@c-67-161-5-247.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:17:42 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 19:19:06 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.61.74] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 19:21:28 agumonkey [~agu@199.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:55 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl20-210-249.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:25:12 ionthas [~user@43.Red-2-138-129.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:03 Hey, I'm trying to follow along in Practical Common Lisps unit framework example, but when I try to change thr progn in check to combine results I get a compilation error about an undeclared free variable, but I don't really know what that means. I don't think I'm using an undeclared variable. Can anyone help? http://paste.lisp.org/display/132964 19:28:15 ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@184.90.25.102] has joined #lisp 19:28:27 Even when I copy+paste the function from the book, it still doesn't work. 19:29:24 you don't have with-gensyms defined 19:29:44 Isn't it part of the stdlib? 19:29:50 nope. 19:29:57 Why is it highlighted in emacs? 19:30:03 if it were, i wouldn't be saying that 19:30:12 Petit_Dejeuner: generic with-* form highlighting probably. 19:30:20 alright, thanks 19:31:48 and it's described in the previous chapter 19:33:57 stassats`, Yeah, I remember that. It's weird because I didn't see it when I downloaded the source code. 19:38:52 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:44:00 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 19:49:32 -!- agumonkey [~agu@199.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:54:21 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 19:54:25 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 19:54:34 sellout42 [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 19:54:52 stephenbeck [~stephen@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #lisp 19:56:09 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@118.168.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:56:11 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 20:00:31 -!- ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@184.90.25.102] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02:53 -!- ionthas [~user@43.Red-2-138-129.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the 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[~roshan@117.193.210.183] has joined #lisp 21:24:43 -!- rmathews [~roshan@117.193.210.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:24:43 -!- rmathews_ is now known as rmathews 21:25:54 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-251-140.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:18 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:26:25 francogrex [~user@109.130.107.167] has joined #lisp 21:28:02 look at this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/132978 21:28:35 -!- xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:28:40 to have min work I have to set an intital value of 10e12 but that seems rubbish there must bne a smarter way 21:29:22 a smarter way to do what? 21:29:28 (min x) => x 21:30:02 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:30:24 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:37 (setf min (min x (or min x))) 21:31:08 lisp-2 \o/ 21:31:22 but what is really happening there? 21:32:27 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:33:45 <|3b|> N or MOST-POSITIVE-SINGLE-FLOAT would be better than 10e12, if you don't want to just check for missing value and handle it directly 21:33:56 stassats`: there are for each ID different values of N, I want to store only the minimal 21:34:32 francogrex: there is also the MINIMIZING loop clause 21:34:39 <|3b|> might also want to use ID in there somewhere if things are stored per ID 21:34:55 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 21:35:02 batch is invariant in the loop, so how is it going to work? 21:35:05 yes soory I meant ID 21:35:09 stassats`: it ain't 21:35:28 (setf (gethash ID table) value) ... 21:35:29 21:36:48 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:37:13 |3b|: MOST-POSITIVE-SINGLE-FLOAT instead of 10e12 I understand by N ? 21:39:33 <|3b|> N is a reasonable default value, since it is one of the possible results 21:39:35 H4ns: MINIMIZING not obvous here 21:40:44 ok, but not if I want to input other 'external' data into the hash table (other that the 'doses' data) 21:41:26 http://paste.lisp.org/display/132978#2 ? 21:43:57 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-160-71.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:40 stassats`: ok. and my initial code was rubbish, especially (min N) should have been (min (nth 0 value) N) ... 21:48:43 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.94] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:50:06 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-022-241.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:50:10 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-215-219.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:50:20 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:27 -!- answer_421 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:55:19 -!- cpc26 [~user@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:55:23 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@75-142-48-213.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:57:08 bitonic [~user@5e0f8472.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 22:00:25 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:01:39 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:02:02 cpc26 [~user@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 22:03:15 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:04:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:44 tofik [~marta@178-36-241-249.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 22:05:52 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:12 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:26 -!- tofik [~marta@178-36-241-249.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:12:30 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:44 kleppari_ [~spa@89-160-177-78.du.xdsl.is] has joined #lisp 22:12:54 -!- pjb is now known as Guest31834 22:13:13 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:13:21 -!- Guest31834 is now known as pjb` 22:13:29 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 22:13:48 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@118.168.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 22:15:05 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:50 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 22:17:45 -!- Guest7621 [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 22:18:26 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224125140.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: lispm] 22:21:34 -!- kleppari_ [~spa@89-160-177-78.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:35 kleppari [~spa@89-160-177-78.du.xdsl.is] has joined #lisp 22:24:37 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:29:21 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 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peer] 22:42:20 -!- punee_ is now known as punee 22:42:43 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.107.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:58 doomlord1 [~servitorO@host81-157-102-115.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:44:14 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:45:24 PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-187.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 22:46:23 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:57 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:48:06 PuercoPop [~user@190.43.61.208] has joined #lisp 22:48:29 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest646 22:49:56 -!- Tuxedo [~tuxedo@bas3-cooksville17-3096523855.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:50:19 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 22:51:01 so a while ago i asked in here, regarding macro baringer's classic SLIME screencast, and a SLIME hacker answered: how do you pick up key presses in emacs like that screencast? i remember it was a change hook, but there was an essential part i was missing i wrote some code at the time but don't have it any more 22:51:21 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 22:52:18 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 22:55:51 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:57:13 chrisdone: perhaps you'll have more luck with that in #emacs. but i'd describe the functionality there, not the specific screencast. have you searched the emacs-wiki? 23:00:17 madnificent: the functionality was to simply have a buffer to which all key presses are inserted, which is great for showing what you're doing in an emacs screencast 23:00:54 i'll ask in #emacs, but was hoping that guy might be here because he gave me the perfect solution last time, just can't remember what it was 23:00:58 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:01:07 well, that sounds like easy to do 23:01:46 stassats`: what would you use? 23:01:51 ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-152.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:15 pre-command-hook 23:02:37 ahhhhhhhh 23:03:17 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:03:23 and this-command-keys 23:03:31 perfect :) 23:03:31 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:paste.lisp.org/display/128761 23:03:59 well, whaddya know, it was me the last time too 23:04:21 haha, i suspected so "that sounds like easy" is pretty much what you said last time :D 23:04:28 -!- agumonkey [~agu@199.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:04:40 "02:14:32 that's not hard to do" 23:04:55 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:04:56 ah, looks like some guys hacked on the problem more after i'd left judging from the pastes 23:05:14 some guys being pjb 23:05:42 kmels_ [~kmels@p5B13EA1E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:03 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 23:07:18 ohh, nice. pjb: this is perfect 23:07:24 i'm gonna stick this on the haskellwiki somewhere 23:07:28 er, emacswiki 23:08:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-215-219.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:16 -!- kmels [~kmels@p5B13F8A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:10:15 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:11:30 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:12:01 stassats`: cheers! 23:12:02 -!- chrisdone [~cin@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has left #lisp 23:14:20 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:14:21 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:15:40 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.162] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.1/20121010144125]] 23:16:32 -!- cibs [~cibs@218.211.32.194] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:16:33 -!- ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@184.90.25.102] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:18:39 bearr [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 23:19:03 -!- bearr is now known as Guest43813 23:19:04 -!- bitonic [~user@5e0f8472.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:19:08 -!- Guest43813 [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 23:20:12 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:21:18 -!- gf3 [~gf3@oftn/member/gf3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:25:02 gf3 [~gf3@oftn/member/gf3] has joined #lisp 23:26:02 ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@184.90.25.102] has joined #lisp 23:26:12 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 23:28:07 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 23:28:31 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 23:30:52 i got a hunchentoot in my pocket 23:31:20 con grats! 23:31:26 Joreji [~thomas@67-235.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 23:32:04 s/hunchentoot/wocket/? 23:32:35 apachebench reports around 100 requests per second 23:33:23 stassats`: This just shows how sad the loss of lisppaste is. 23:34:45 well, it is unfortunate 23:35:47 what happened to lisppaste? 23:35:47 it lost its pastes 23:35:47 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:47 otherwise, it's fine 23:35:54 And we didn't have backups. Only a couple of partial mirrors. 23:35:59 -!- ebobby is now known as Guest80007 23:36:36 ooooooh 23:36:58 hmm. gotta redo the paste linked from cl-opengl's homepage then 23:37:04 how big was the loss ? 23:37:12 Quite big. 23:37:26 or just point it at github really 23:37:36 Eventually the partial mirrors will be reintegrated. 23:37:45 -!- oubiwann [~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:38:11 What actually caused the paste lossage? 23:38:16 I don't know. 23:38:17 nyef: rm and a symlink 23:38:21 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 23:38:23 Ouch. 23:38:42 what i thought was in another place was just symlinked there 23:38:46 there is a backup of the pastes 23:38:50 I lost a collection of source control repositories from that exact cause. 23:38:57 well, 90% of them 23:39:25 yeah, i'll need to process the mirrored pastes before putting them back 23:39:44 yeah, understandably annoying from that HTML 23:40:31 well, they are exported as xml 23:40:45 but the exported xml is somewhat different than the stored one 23:42:15 Mmm. The stored XML isn't even "proper" XML if I recall correctly. 23:42:30 Was anything ever done about a persistent index so that the startup time isn't so abominable? 23:42:44 nyef: yes, deleting all the pastes solved this 23:42:51 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:42:55 Heh. I suppose it would. 23:43:06 But, more seriously, no code improvements made in that direction? 23:43:21 It was always an explicit development goal when I was doing the maintenance. 23:43:22 i planned it, yes 23:44:45 pyb [6db0f515@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.176.245.21] has joined #lisp 23:45:50 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-187.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:46:08 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 23:47:38 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 23:49:11 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-54-12.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 23:49:29 -!- Guest80007 is now known as fms 23:49:47 -!- fms is now known as ebobby 23:50:16 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:53:19 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-124-003.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 23:54:14 sbenitezb [~sebas@186.136.23.25] has joined #lisp 23:54:49 sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp