00:02:40 justinmcp [~justinmcp@13.47.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:03:00 -!- kjbrock [~user@63.110.51.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:03:09 -!- user123abc_ [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:03:31 catmtking_ [~catmtking@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-66-200.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 00:03:42 -!- catmtking_ [~catmtking@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-66-200.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 00:04:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:06:39 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:07:26 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:07:30 -!- cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has quit [Quit: cic__] 00:08:51 catmtking [~catmtking@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-66-200.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 00:11:54 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:13:24 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-66-200.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 00:13:58 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:14:54 user123abc_ [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:27 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:23:36 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:26:33 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:27:30 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:31:51 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.241] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:32:43 ISF [~ivan@187.64.220.85] has joined #lisp 00:32:51 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:35:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:37:56 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@63-229-128-245.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:39:59 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-128-245.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:47 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 00:40:56 rickardg [~user@c-96a0e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:42:39 -!- My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:42:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:43:22 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 00:44:57 thom_logn [~thom@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:14 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-236-130.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:45:26 -!- rickardg [~user@c-96a0e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:45:35 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:46:14 blar1 [~corey@cpe-75-187-151-213.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:46:54 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 00:52:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:52:13 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-149-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:52:22 surprised that bog standard (print) isn't n-ary. I wrote one, but is there an existing one like that? 00:52:49 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.64.220.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:53:11 it takes a stream parameter. 00:54:23 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:54:31 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:56:17 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 01:00:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:00:50 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:03:07 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.28.149.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:03:26 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:05:09 AnnaI [~AnnaI@c-76-103-44-28.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:19 -!- AnnaI [~AnnaI@c-76-103-44-28.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:06:18 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@adsl-75-51-65-9.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:48 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 01:10:16 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:10:17 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:11:36 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 01:12:33 -!- booguie [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:18 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:13:22 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-qmunkhuzhtertips] has joined #lisp 01:13:50 Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483B540.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:10 merlin2 [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 01:15:10 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483B6D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:16:34 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:18:02 -!- Left_Turn [~Left_Turn@host86-179-194-137.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 01:18:31 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:19:48 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:21:09 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-177-189.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 01:21:26 not sure if this is topical but slime argument hints used to auto-resize emacs minibuffer so I can see all the arguments. I lost my original config and can't recall what option controls this. anyone knows? 01:22:23 merlin2: slime-autodoc-use-multiline-p? 01:23:07 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:23:34 puddingpimp [~dave@118-92-215-60.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:24:08 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@adsl-75-51-65-9.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:27 that's it thanks! 01:24:30 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@adsl-75-51-65-9.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:49 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:41 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-60-85.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 01:29:52 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:31:35 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:31:45 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:31:56 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has 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[~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:56:16 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:57:03 _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@95.56-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 01:59:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:59:49 -!- My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:02:19 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.136.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02:24 DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@1.144.136.147] has joined #lisp 02:03:26 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A1BC6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:05:47 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:06:54 -!- DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@1.144.136.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:08:47 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:12:35 i_like_funyuns [~root@user-387h48u.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:21 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:15:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:17:47 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:19:21 -!- sabra [~wol@67.174.222.215] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:21:28 mcox [~user@140.253.50.94] has joined #lisp 02:22:05 What happened to Kenneth Tilton? 02:24:03 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:26:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:26:41 nvm 02:26:45 -!- mcox [~user@140.253.50.94] has left #lisp 02:29:26 rickardg [~user@c-96a0e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 02:30:06 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@107-202-145-90.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:30:25 kpreid [~kpreid@107-202-145-90.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:34 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-!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:01:58 -!- paul0 [~user@186.222.48.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:24 -!- benny [~user@i577A1597.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:03:55 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:07:08 konaya [~konaya@c83-250-171-50.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 03:10:41 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:12:34 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-qmunkhuzhtertips] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:12:58 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@adsl-75-51-65-9.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:13:45 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:17:05 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 03:18:01 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:48 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:22:05 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.108.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22:13 -!- _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@95.56-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:22:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:23:03 _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@208.70-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 03:23:24 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 03:23:25 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-78-211.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:01 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.108.232] has joined #lisp 03:29:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:30:34 -!- i_like_funyuns [~root@user-387h48u.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:31:51 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:32:22 what is the best/proper way to print lisp forms, say if I wanted to write them to a file 03:32:34 print. 03:32:55 oh shit 03:33:37 cfy [~cfy@125.123.45.150] has joined #lisp 03:33:57 -!- thom_logn [~thom@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:34:36 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.45.150] has quit [Changing host] 03:34:36 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 03:34:58 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:56 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:38:26 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:38 PCL uses ith-standard-io-syntax before reading and writing. is it not necessary? 03:39:34 It's necessary if you want to protect against syntax having been changed whenever that code is executd. 03:39:37 merlin2: if you're really serious, but that only needs to be somewhere in the dynamic scope. 03:41:10 lggr 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[~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:00:53 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:03:47 cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has joined #lisp 04:03:58 what would be the recomended way of storing 3d coord data in commonlisp .. coordinates have an assumption, they are small vectors of immutable size; what datastructure choice will give the various lisp implementations the best chance of turning that into a straightforward float vec[3] in memory 04:04:24 (simple-array single-float (3))? 04:04:44 that is, a vector of three single floats. 04:05:00 ok i hadn't heard of "simple-array", thanks; 04:05:00 Although, I hear that working with quaternions instead is pretty useful. 04:05:15 float3, float4 .. yeah. 04:05:16 Nikodemus's sb-cga has interesting stuff, and even includes portable versions iirc. 04:06:34 float4s are nice with SIMD :) 04:07:34 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 04:08:09 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:09:06 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:40 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:16:08 -!- doomlord [~ceti331@host81-157-102-115.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:17:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:17:40 rickardg [~user@c-96a0e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 04:18:39 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:21:16 debugger invoked on a ASDF:COMPILE-ERROR in thread 04:21:18 #: 04:21:20 Error while invoking # on 04:21:22 # 04:21:49 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Quit: ] 04:22:06 -!- rickardg [~user@c-96a0e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:22:26 Sorry. Didn't mean to send 4 lines at once. 04:23:11 But what is causing this error? and how to fix? 04:23:20 drl: scroll up. 04:24:13 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@adsl-75-51-65-9.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:26:39 agumonkey [~agu@208.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:13 kjbrock [~user@173-11-106-198-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:27 -!- cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has quit [Quit: cic__] 04:28:49 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:29:52 <|3b|> pkhuong: quaternions usually replace matrices, not vectors 04:31:14 |3b|: but vectors must be extended to fit. 04:34:23 <|3b|> pkhuong: not sure what you mean... you need 4 elements to store a quaternion, but i wouldn't really call that an extension of a vector 04:34:50 *|3b|* supposes they might have a few operations in common though 04:35:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:35:26 -!- nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:35:35 *|3b|* might be using a different meaning of 'vector' though 04:37:15 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Ping timeout: 604 seconds] 04:37:23 nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 04:38:22 <|3b|> using 4 elements for 3d coordinates has uses too, aside from just aligning more nicely 04:38:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:39:07 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:40:10 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:44 Instead of converting quaternions to matrices, some people pad vectors into unit quaternion. Fewer special cases, and it might even SIMDise simply. 04:42:32 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 04:42:43 ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 04:44:35 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:47:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:51:33 pkhuong: thanks. It was a chown problem. The file couldn't be written to disk. 04:53:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:55:00 cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has joined #lisp 04:56:21 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:57:52 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:18 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:50 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:01:16 -!- merlin2 [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 05:03:09 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 05:03:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:03:36 jewel [~jewel@196-215-139-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:06:13 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:07:07 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[~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:44:20 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:44:23 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@adsl-75-51-65-9.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:44:34 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:45:34 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:49:57 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 05:50:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:53:24 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:54:08 dto [~user@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:15 hi xach and friends. 05:54:52 -!- AlbireoX`Laptop [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:55:00 if anyone wants to see a complete playthrough (~15mins) of a graphical lisp adventure game i made in 2009, here's the video :) http://blocky.io/sanctuary-longplay-full.ogv 05:55:48 i just made the playthrough; not a lot of people saw the whole game, because the game had some issues on some machines that made it too fast and the player would starve before the game could be completed. 05:55:58 so, this is probably the best way to enjoy Sanctuary, that vid. enjoy :) 05:56:06 Text bubbles in a roguelike, that's new on me 05:56:14 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-220-149.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:58 Bike: :) 05:59:06 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:59:19 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 06:02:15 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:06:23 rickardg [~user@c-96a0e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:07:33 attila_lendvai 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[~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:56:08 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 10:56:19 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #lisp 10:56:22 Hey guys! 10:56:25 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:56:28 How many of you do Lisping on Windows? 10:56:36 sepisult1um [r577nypyfs@213.251.184.143] has joined #lisp 10:57:18 afaik nikodemus or so does 10:57:34 dunno maybe some others too 10:57:38 Hello. Does anyone know what has happened to hunchentoot:*session-removal-hook* in hunchentoot 1.2.6? Can't find anything related to this in the docs. 10:57:39 I wonder how many deal with the Win32 API 10:57:45 i have just installed one there, didn't use it yet much... 10:57:47 I don't develop on windows, but I have a couple of program that I intend to deploy on it. 10:58:02 eslg [~ulgen@92.243.190.94] has joined #lisp 10:58:28 I've been reading a fair amount about CFFI and UFFI. 10:58:36 Thankfully, they're only CLI programs, so I don't have to deal with the Win32 GUI API, but there's still a couple of Win32 API calls to be made to manage encodings on the MSWindows console. 10:58:37 I have CLISP and ECL installed, just playing around with them at the moment. 10:58:45 ccl works well too. 10:58:53 Clozure or Corman? 10:59:02 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-kxkjjlsxbgumkcja] has joined #lisp 10:59:14 i have emacs installed there, starting sbcl via slime works there but not vi amy own defun which works on linux..... 10:59:16 ccl = Clozure CL. 10:59:22 and sbcl starts from cmd too there 10:59:32 it can't properly fork or so 10:59:45 Things are different in Windows. 10:59:50 There is no fork. Well, not like UNIX. 11:00:08 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:00:21 Trying to use the Win32 in an object-oriented language is kind of painful. At least, if you want to do it in a nice objective way. 11:00:30 Like say, a class that is a window and handles various events. 11:00:49 Since Win32 does it's reporting / event signalling via standard C callbacks. 11:01:05 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:01:07 It does allow you to store arbitrary user data in a Window class, however. 11:01:11 paul0 [~user@186.222.48.210] has joined #lisp 11:01:14 even the clim windows backend thing does not work properly.....some bugs are left.... 11:01:31 some frames do display ok, but then don't redisplay or so... 11:01:39 hmmmm 11:01:42 I'm thinking about using Lisp to write a commercial app but.. hmm. 11:01:44 for clim 11:02:16 Afaik, any packaged Lisp program includes an image. 11:02:35 So... if I were to distribute any program built with whatever lisp, i'd have to check that the image I used was able to be distributed. 11:02:40 i should get the mingw X or so 11:02:40 elderK: actually, on NT, there's fork, but it screws up WinAPI 11:02:45 elderK: I would study the raw Win32 API, not use the C++ classes (MFC or something), but instead write CLOS classes to wrap over the Win32 API. 11:02:53 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 11:03:00 and if I was selling the program, i'd have to learn about royalties, etc. 11:03:01 pjb: aye. 11:03:08 ah xming it's called 11:03:09 MFC isn't freely available. 11:03:19 It's only available with Windows compilers or Borland/Embarcadero type shit. 11:03:26 And it is shit, Embarcadero. 11:03:27 pjb: the thing is, some of the new APIs are actually in C++ 11:03:37 pjb: and there are important reasons to use them 11:03:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:03:53 p_l: I didn't know that, about forking, what's the call name? 11:04:04 p_l: I wouldn't mind reading on it a little. 11:04:12 spawn ? 11:04:14 I don't remember the name, it's a syscall 11:04:24 with pretty long name 11:04:34 It'd be neat if you could have a Win32 function that would call some generic function in Lisp passing in some Lisp object. 11:04:40 So far, what I do, or plan to do, 11:04:44 is do what I do in C++, in a sense. 11:05:01 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-kxkjjlsxbgumkcja] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:05:23 elderK: I suggest you build support for the basic Windows APIs, then use Direct* family of libs for drawing 11:05:47 Have Win32 call a lisp-function-callable-in-c that uses the HWND of the window as a key into a hash table. The entries being objects. Then execute the generic functions on those objects. 11:05:53 I'd probably use OGL. 11:06:00 you might avoid some of the ugly sides of writing the wrappers by autogenerating bindings from COM 11:06:01 Unless there's a compelling reason to use DirectX. 11:06:12 elderK: with ffi callbacks you can do that. 11:06:34 pjb: Do what? The hash table method or the direct routing to a generic function? 11:06:43 elderK: yes, there's - you might get flashing screen and overall change in functionality every time you open your program 11:06:49 I mean with ECL you could write some C stuff and interact with it's runtime directly. 11:07:03 elderK: also, OpenGL is not *guaranteed* to be available with hw acceleration 11:07:04 o_O Really? 11:07:13 Jeez. That sucks. 11:07:23 afaik my win7 is on a amd64 chip with a radeon gcard 11:07:55 packard bell...... 11:07:57 p_l: all dependent on the drivers your vendor supplies? I know that many of the new Windows APIs are quite reliant on DX, right? 11:08:05 elderK: both are true 11:08:05 elderK: indeed, that's also a nice possibility, to generate some specific C lines. 11:08:15 (Bear with me here. I'm not at all a Win32 guru. I'm reasonable inexperienced with the Win32 API) 11:08:37 elderK: have fun! 11:08:45 elderK: also, if you go with DX, you should be able to reuse existing rasterizers for DirectWrite (and you *want* to use DirectWrite) 11:09:13 Whyfore, p_l? 11:09:28 elderK: but seriously, thanks to the Internet, and the "popularity" of Win32, you can find easily information about any problem you have with it. 11:09:49 I don't know. I haven't found Win32 to be /that/ bad. I've certainly dealt with worse APIs. 11:09:53 also, by properly using DX and DWM Compose APIs you can avoid unnecessary delays and better integrate with DWM 11:09:59 Sorry, I've found what happened to *session-removal-hook* in the CHANGELOG 11:10:16 pjb: the popularity means you'll find a lot of bullshit and info about higher level, not low level 11:10:26 I agree with p_l. 11:10:39 I've found in my experience, generally, people who write tutorials don't know wtf they're writing about :P 11:10:43 or at least, not as much as they think. 11:10:50 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:11:00 There ARE some good ones. 11:11:09 But not that many. I'm speaking from my experience. YMMV 11:11:33 p_l: I take it you do a lot of work in Windows? 11:12:23 elderK: no, but I recently spelunked through MSDN documentation 11:12:32 considering looking into developing for windows 11:12:39 :) So like me. 11:13:04 I'm hoping to target UNIX specifically. 11:13:06 But it all depends. 11:13:27 The licensing fees on Windows... well. They can be reasonable. 11:13:49 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:13:54 And if your product is meant to be used like an appliance - where the system itself isn't accessible - the need for Windows is less. 11:14:10 Problem is that a bunch of peripherals that'd be needed aren't likely to offer any kind of drivers for any platform outside of Windows. 11:14:11 :/ 11:14:29 And writing drivers will get in the way. 11:14:30 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-obmzdyssfzzhxtld] has joined #lisp 11:15:27 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-obmzdyssfzzhxtld] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:15:41 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-lzitsqcbhluuxrrc] has joined #lisp 11:16:16 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 11:16:26 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-lzitsqcbhluuxrrc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:17:13 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-yrxeyhzirigljqmt] has joined #lisp 11:17:51 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-yrxeyhzirigljqmt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:18:17 *sigh* 11:18:47 Anyone read the CLOS book by Sonya Keene? 11:18:52 So far I'm finding it pretty good :) 11:19:09 me too 11:19:15 i did, and do 11:19:50 but gigamonkeys section is good too 11:19:58 on object reorientation 11:20:01 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:20:46 and i got recently to the presentations part of clim...... 11:20:53 eheh 11:21:21 wanted to enable a command abbrev globally..... 11:21:38 and had to see the various command-tables ..... 11:21:58 still not implemented it yet..... 11:22:10 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-ebonhklnqfdeznkj] has joined #lisp 11:22:17 but that some drei commands are only enabled for the editing-table is ...... 11:22:20 dunno 11:22:38 hmmm 11:22:44 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:22:47 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-ebonhklnqfdeznkj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:23:13 and esa's still a different beast..... 11:24:10 and some things are still not implemented as far as of clim-2.0 spec...... 11:24:17 it seems 11:24:35 like various designs 11:24:40 or options thereof 11:26:21 Also, 11:26:23 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-yhalhlabydfnmrpt] has joined #lisp 11:26:41 Am I the only one that feels that.. well... Lisp really needs a Lisp OS to truly shine? Like it seems like... 11:27:00 Lisp is far more elegant than the other languages, especially those that the mainstream operating systems are developed in and their APIs. 11:27:25 Like interacting with Objective-C APIs (Mac OSX) or C/C++/C# APIs. 11:27:59 it's all there, someone hast to just implement the frameworks for multilingual thingies and whatnot to movitz..... 11:28:09 and then go go go..... 11:28:11 eheh 11:28:19 oh man 11:28:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:29:25 Imho, making an OS which aims to be successful is not a trivial thing anymore. Ideally, a Lisp OS would have to be fully in Lisp, but there are a lot of limitations to this approach 11:30:24 p_l: right, but there's also a lot of doc on msdn,microsoft.com 11:31:48 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-yhalhlabydfnmrpt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:31:51 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:31:57 make it work-> profile-> implements parts in c if need be........... 11:32:06 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-ehyqmhbsuhdjzvhz] has joined #lisp 11:32:44 Movitz is nothing impressive. 11:32:53 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-ehyqmhbsuhdjzvhz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:55 I spent a long, long time researching kernels and their implementation. 11:33:00 Performance is one of the problems; but there is also the low level aspect, and the fact that you would have to redo a lot of things from scratch 11:33:05 I spent a week or so analyzing Movitz' source. 11:33:06 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-arkxhhtacrpepsof] has joined #lisp 11:33:08 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:33:26 Er, Movitz's source. 11:33:27 pjb: from my experience, a lot of people don't look there 11:33:33 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:33:58 The_third_man: Making an OS that's successful at all is a /horrendously/ hard thing. 11:34:04 yup 11:34:10 And you're likely only to succeed, maybe, if you target a niche area. 11:34:24 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-arkxhhtacrpepsof] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:34:38 In terms of desktop operating systems: yeah, good luck :P 11:34:40 You're screwed. 11:34:55 btw, anyone has CLX not failing on parsing Xauthority? 11:35:06 elderK: about OSes, the point is that they're all VMs inside VMs, and if not, that's what you want eventually. 11:35:34 That depends on how you define VM. 11:35:44 So just take the unix VM, and embed a Lisp VM inside it (as a unix process). Consider unix as the hardware abstraction layer for your lisp OS. Each CL implementation IS a lisp OS, just like emacs is an emacs lisp OS. 11:36:14 Granted, IPC let your VM communicate with other VMs running on the same VM. 11:36:16 -!- gko [~user@42.71.98.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:36:28 Or on different VM, for remote IPC such as TCP/IP. 11:37:39 You know, that's not actually a bad way to think of them. As virtual machines. 11:37:46 :P It's kind of philosophical. 11:37:55 In anycase, the killer app can be the kernel/OS, if it has particular properties that are required by a customer. But in practice, it's often just a niche market. Eros-OS could be sold to a couple of big accounts because they had a specific need for a capability based system. AS/400 similarly. 11:38:09 Aye. 11:38:15 yours_truly [~yours@64.229.2.254] has joined #lisp 11:38:21 It is easier to target a killer app at the user level: just write a OS user interface on your lisp OS in a unix process. 11:38:26 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:38:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:38:52 If users like it, and you find that 90% of linux users use your UI/lisp OS, then you may consider a kickstarter to finance developing the lisp OS kernel. 11:38:55 also, consider that for a new OS, you need a hook, a pretty complete starting release, and full devkit 11:39:06 Yup. 11:39:38 *p_l* notes that, iirc, for some time OSX came with Xcode 11:39:44 But really, linux runs on such a wide range of hardware, from embedded processors to phones to mainframes to supercomputers, just use it as your hardware abstraction layer. 11:39:46 It still does afaik 11:39:48 we should put a Lisp in ring 1 or 2. Those rings would finally be useful 11:40:00 It's not the worse kernel you can use. 11:40:15 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-yncitsqyxuoqkitq] has joined #lisp 11:40:16 Running bare-metal would be neat. 11:40:19 Genera for standard PCs. 11:40:20 :P 11:40:23 The alternative would be to use Xen. 11:40:32 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:40:34 not a bad idea 11:40:41 The_third_man: Rings are pretty much useless now. 11:40:47 At least, 1/2 11:40:49 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:41:01 And aye, Xen isn't a bad idea. 11:41:01 yeah 11:41:02 But I tried to run Xen 3 on this i7 machine when I got it new two years ago, and it wasn't successful. Now I just use qemu to run a few VMs on Linux. 11:41:06 or use L4/Linux 11:41:21 How usable is L4/Linux nowadays? 11:41:24 :P Or the Hurd, even. 11:41:28 elderK: but rings will become useful again with my idea ! 11:41:50 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-yncitsqyxuoqkitq] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:41:51 -!- Tuxedo [~tuxedo@bas3-cooksville17-845466478.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:41:52 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:41:52 The_third_man: Rings 1 and 2 aren't supported in X86_64, though? 11:41:59 0 and 3,m are. 11:42:07 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-vuzjesrojwhlvxcx] has joined #lisp 11:42:21 Most CPUs are two-level now in terms of privileges? 11:42:27 Yes. 11:42:28 I don't know 11:42:30 :P Or only one level if you're talking abotu the majority of processors, worldwide. 11:42:40 (Embedded! Think Atmel or ARM!) 11:42:44 It's rather easy to implement other level in software when you have two levels. 11:42:46 So many don't even come wiht MMUs. 11:43:04 Yeah, that's true. But it comes at a price. 11:43:08 But but but 11:43:10 tell me of l4. 11:43:17 How far has it come? 11:43:25 Last I looked it wasn't really useful for desktop use. 11:44:08 If you can make Xen work, it's a nice solution, since you can keep linux VM for user interaction and legacy applications, and still run a parallel nice lisp OS. 11:44:38 As a research thing, it'd be fun to write a Lisp OS. 11:44:44 :P It was a weird scheme I had AGES ago. 11:45:05 A project of mine, ages ago, was to write a Scheme compiler that could produce reasonably ocncise assembler. 11:45:16 That you could use to write a bootloader and a kernel. 11:45:37 It was fun to research and ponder but unfortunately that project has basically died due to lack of time and having a job... 11:45:40 and a relationship. 11:46:20 http://www.osix.net/modules/article/?id=359 11:46:37 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-vuzjesrojwhlvxcx] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:47:04 *yawn* 11:47:19 I've written a few toy kernels. 11:47:23 And some not-so-toy kernels. 11:47:33 Not that I ever made money off of them or that they ever were used. 11:47:47 So I guess they were still toys. But quite powerful toys :) 11:48:03 It's a great way to learn about an architecture :) 11:48:07 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-zfpniebazwdrkyjr] has joined #lisp 11:48:22 And if you don't mind tinkering in assembly, can be quite fun to ponder new kinds of calling conventions. 11:48:44 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-zfpniebazwdrkyjr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:48:45 Writing the lisp implementations garbage collector in the lisp implementation itself would be cool 11:49:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:49:20 You'd probably have to adhere to some constraints on the general types of functions you could create, things you could use. 11:49:33 elderK: scheme48 has a compiler that can be used to create non-GCed parts of kernel 11:49:52 -!- elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:00 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-121-92.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:50:31 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.29.210.37] has joined #lisp 11:51:20 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #lisp 11:51:28 :P Back 11:51:35 :P I'll stop rambling. 11:51:36 < elderK> It's a great way to learn about an architecture :) << making a toy kernel is probably one of the best projects for students 11:51:48 as you said, to learn about architecture 11:51:53 Compilers, too. 11:51:54 but also to learn about debugging 11:52:05 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:52:30 That's true. 11:52:43 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-urexfpjohlglfxsj] has joined #lisp 11:52:46 Everyone loves triple fault 11:52:49 HAHAHA 11:52:50 Yeah. 11:52:51 BOOM 11:52:52 gone. 11:53:06 It's for that reason I fell in love with my serial port :) 11:53:18 or at least when I had the machine I wrote the code on, that actually had a serial port... 11:53:26 Bochs and Qemu are nice :] 11:53:30 elderK: you'd love OHCI firewire with disabled IOMMU even more :) 11:53:30 Yeah 11:53:35 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-urexfpjohlglfxsj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:53:42 I only ever used Bochs and then real hardware. 11:53:49 (NT actually used to have firewire debugger, too) 11:54:00 Heh :P 11:54:03 is there a big gap between bochs and hardware ? 11:54:09 There's always a gap. 11:54:17 how big ? 11:54:23 But I found Bochs better for developing and debugging than Qemu 11:54:30 Not that big. 11:54:39 Mostly it was if you didn't intiialize something 11:54:42 and boch's memory is zeroed. 11:54:46 Real memory isn't. 11:54:50 Bochs has explicit errors; which is nice 11:55:05 Also, bochs generally works with all kinds of BIOS calls. Many machines don't actually handle what they apparently support. 11:55:08 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 11:55:14 A bunch of them have quirks which fuck shit up 11:55:20 nice 11:55:25 So... 11:55:28 Either way. 11:55:39 Whether you developed purely bare-metal, in something like Bochs, wahtever. 11:55:43 You're going to hit those things. 11:55:55 I remember the day I first had virtualized memory operating :P 11:56:00 that was COOL 11:56:06 I loved the ability to remap addresses to others. 11:56:07 that's life in a nutshell, innit? 11:56:12 I thought it was the bees knees! 11:56:14 :P 11:56:19 quirks that fuck things up 11:56:23 bochs, most importantly, is a *simulator*. Qemu is emulator. Important distinction :) 11:56:27 For a time I even thought that Segmentation was kind of cool. 11:56:32 That's true, p_l. 11:56:34 and aye, JuanDaugherty 11:56:47 elderK: segmentation *is* cool, but misused ;) 11:56:48 Another project of mine that was never really started was writing an incredibly detailed M68K simulator. 11:57:06 I never really saw that much wrong with segmentation. 11:57:13 Protected mode segmentation especially. 11:57:19 But like you said: misused. 11:57:26 :P I have a thing for the 68K. 11:57:39 I always wanted to play with one and never got to, never could afford the devkit. 11:57:48 :P Wanted to write one that would let you inspect the caches on the models that had them. 11:57:54 And take a peek at the waveforms :D 11:58:06 see the little waves and stuff in the way that they're documented in the programming guides. 11:58:07 :) 11:58:09 Would be so cool 11:58:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:58:33 the ability to set an execution speed for the simulator. Higher speeds would disable certain features. Like the waveform viewer. 11:58:45 The signals the processor was sending out, etc. Or the components on the virtual motherboard. 11:58:48 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-mcywerhoygsjcwfc] has joined #lisp 11:58:51 :) 11:59:11 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-mcywerhoygsjcwfc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:59:40 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-lbhrvogvuagywlai] has joined #lisp 12:00:01 :P Does it many you guys sad that Intel dominates the desktop market? 12:00:13 I feel that it makes things a little less fun or exciting. 12:00:25 But then... the infinitely many linux distributions get on my nerves. 12:00:28 Ah well. 12:00:31 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-lbhrvogvuagywlai] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:55 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-5-251.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:01:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:02:15 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-tmlaoergnyudrfmb] has joined #lisp 12:02:24 this reminds me the difference between Intel's GDT and Amd's GD 12:02:25 T* 12:03:27 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-tmlaoergnyudrfmb] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:04:08 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-pdiwhfzahbznlynv] has joined #lisp 12:04:32 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-pdiwhfzahbznlynv] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:04:40 How so, The_third_man? 12:04:48 I never really examined the difference in the architectures. 12:04:57 I always developed by the Intel manuals. 12:05:03 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:08 But then I was always testing on Intel chips so it didn't bug me much :) 12:05:42 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-184-0-174.lns10.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 12:05:42 One of the funnest things I've ever written was a dynamic linker. That was GREAT fun. 12:05:56 Starting an ELF binary in your OS, the runtime doing all the linking... 12:05:57 Man 12:06:00 It's such a cool feeling. 12:06:09 Made me want to dance when it all worked. 12:06:16 http://blog.corentinderbois.fr/?p=91 << sorry, it's in french, but the source is explicit :D 12:06:39 Here's hoping I'm not so rusty that I ca't follow 12:06:41 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:07:16 Woah 12:07:18 That is a big difference 12:07:51 Same size, though. 12:08:38 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-154.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 12:08:39 Just... 12:08:57 it makes me sad that you either have to write the base stuff in C or Pascal or Assembly... or Ada... 12:09:03 someone did write one in Haskell. 12:09:17 I'm not sure how much boilerplate it needed in Assembly or C though. 12:09:30 I mean you can write a bootloader completely in C, albeit with inline assembly.. 12:09:36 It'd be so cool to do that in a Lisp, you know? 12:09:45 DreamScheme was pretty neat in that it ran baremetal. 12:09:48 yeah 12:09:52 It would be cool 12:09:58 In terms of stuff that's neat, it's a hell of a lot more deserving of kudos than Movitz. 12:10:01 elderK: I was thinking of making a demo of macro assembler in lisp 12:10:11 that's a good idea 12:10:15 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:10:28 -!- cpc26 [~user@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:10:41 Yeah :) 12:10:44 cpc26 [~user@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 12:10:54 :P Write a Lisp assembly!@ 12:10:56 *assembler 12:11:11 Then write a lisp implementation that uses it as an output :D 12:11:24 with all kinds of crazy shit in between like TCO and scuh 12:11:27 *such 12:11:44 the ability to define structures that are without lisp tags and such 12:12:01 I mean hell I'd settle for a scheme OS. 12:12:07 *cymew* misread TCO as TECO 12:12:10 HAHAAH 12:12:14 :P 12:12:23 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-hfbovacbgddkhitd] has joined #lisp 12:12:43 ALSO 12:12:51 It fucking sucks that you can't get a nice printed copy of the Lisp standard. 12:12:54 Deadtree. 12:12:59 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-hfbovacbgddkhitd] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:13:06 indeed 12:13:29 You could get a firm to print out the PDF. I generated one from the draft ANSI. 12:13:38 :) Full pages rather than half page. 12:13:49 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-sixrthjeehdmkodc] has joined #lisp 12:13:56 Double sided pages, in a nice hard cover. 12:14:04 with a giant lambda symbol ont he front. 12:14:09 Put some nice engravings in it. 12:14:17 Put it on a cushion in some fancy room 12:14:20 play spiritual music :P 12:14:21 hahah 12:14:23 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-sixrthjeehdmkodc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:45 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-gxhfvwzuaffrhlat] has joined #lisp 12:15:25 -!- kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-gxhfvwzuaffrhlat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:15:39 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:16:09 elderK: ofo course it's sad Intel dominates the market, just like it's sad McDonalds dominate the market. I'd prefer to eat at El Bulli. 12:16:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:17:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 12:17:42 I'd love to play with the i960 12:17:46 But that thing is long dead, afaik. 12:17:49 or i860 12:17:51 :_) 12:17:55 PowerPC, too. 12:18:16 On the other hand, in computers, we can have virtual machines. Not in restaurants: you cannot enter a McDo restaurant and have a Huevo de oro, even slowly. 12:18:31 But in computers, you can emulate a 68040 on a ix86. 12:18:40 or a LispMachine processor. 12:19:35 elderK: you don't have to write "base stuff" in any other programming language than lisp. 12:20:23 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:20:37 You don't? 12:20:45 elderK: have a look at my mark-and-sweep GC written in CL: https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/heap 12:21:49 And if your CL implementation doesn't provide a LAP/VOP assembler, you can use CL-LLVM to generate the lower level functions you need to write the base stuff in lisp. 12:22:13 :) Cool 12:22:28 LAP/VOP? 12:23:27 -!- cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:23:45 cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 12:24:04 Lisp Assembler Program / Virtual OPeration. 12:24:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:25:17 pjb: You don't allow unaligned accesses? 12:26:39 Also, is Informatimago a school fo some kind? 12:26:41 or a company? 12:26:44 No, I don't. 12:27:07 informatimago = informatica mago = el mago de la informatica = software sorcerer. 12:27:10 Also, nicely documented :) 12:27:15 Ah, I see :) 12:27:23 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:27:33 What do you use the GC for? 12:27:39 "ogamita" = (reverse (subseq "informatimago" 6)) 12:27:57 elderK: it was used to manage shared memory between two lisp processes. 12:28:45 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:29:42 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:29:42 :) Like... 12:30:02 Imagine the GC for a bare-metal system. The kernel handling everything, running with no runtime but what it, itself, defined. 12:30:09 Or even more so: running a userland with the user runtime. 12:30:30 Would the lisp kernel itself use GC? 12:30:35 would only the userland use GC? 12:30:37 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:30:47 Would all of memory be handled by a GC? Or only the heaps of the userland programs? 12:30:51 It's fun to think about :) 12:31:20 Wish I had ACM access. It'd be neat to find the papers by LMI or Symbolics. Surely there are some. 12:31:37 I think Sun once wrote a Java OS. Might be interesting to look into. I have no idea how well documented it was. 12:32:06 elderK: you may also want to have a look at Squeak (Smalltalk implementation) and how it compiles itself so that everything's written in Smalltalk. 12:32:46 Would it still be considered "all lisp" if it compiled itself to bytecode or something, optimized, then compiled itself to BLA assembly using an assembler written in itself? 12:32:53 Sure. 12:33:26 The point is that the source code be lisp, so that you never have to edit anything else to change the system, even in the lowest level. 12:33:37 :( It's a shame that CL is so massive. I'd never be able to write an ANSI compliant CL compiler. 12:33:43 I could Scheme because Scheme is TINY. 12:33:53 elderK: it's not massive at all: there's only 25 special operators. 12:34:03 CLOS? 12:34:04 You can take the "library" code from projects such as sacla or sicl. 12:34:34 PCL. 12:34:34 ? http://homepage1.nifty.com/bmonkey/lisp/sacla/index-en.html 12:34:56 portable common loops? 12:35:00 clisp also has a lot of library code written in lisp. 12:35:02 Yep. 12:35:06 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/oop/clos/pcl/0.html 12:35:37 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:35:44 Also: the CL standard allows implementing only a subset of CL, as long as it's documented as such. 12:35:46 I imagine the macro stuff would be difficult? 12:35:59 AFAIK, lisp500 is a conforming subset of ANSI CL (assuming the documentation). 12:36:11 Now, macros are the simpliest thing. 12:36:15 Once you have sexps, that is. 12:36:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:36:34 So you could still be conforming with ANSI, and be a compliant implementation provided you noted what WASN'T available? 12:36:44 and ensured that what was, followed the ANSI spec? 12:36:46 Yes. 12:36:49 Yes. 12:37:06 I would've thought making the macro process.. like, iterative. 12:37:09 would be hard. 12:37:11 like read-table stuff 12:37:17 some things are recursive, like shorthand vector stuff 12:37:19 For example, you can just implement fixnums, and signal an arithmetic-error when they overflow, just like bignums signals it when they overflow eventually. 12:37:20 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.29.210.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:37:21 #(.... #(....)) 12:37:55 but instead of invoking the read table stuff on itself, make it iterative - the stack stuff constant. 12:38:01 but then TCO would help that... 12:38:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.77.232] has joined #lisp 12:38:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.77.232] has quit [Changing host] 12:38:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:38:17 *elderK* follows some random tangent in his head 12:38:42 Each implementation have a lisp reader implementation and I have one at https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/lisp-reader 12:39:02 the lisp reader algorithm is not the hardest in CL, and furthermore, it's the only algorithm that's specified by the standard! 12:39:32 :) Ah. 12:39:47 I hope you don't; mind but I've bookmarked your pages and intend to study them some :) 12:39:50 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:39:54 It'll be interesting :) 12:40:04 doomlord [~ceti331@host81-157-102-115.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:40:13 Also, random : What's your favorite lisp implementation? 12:40:20 I don't have one yet :) 12:40:20 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:40:35 And as a Vi user, I'm already at a disadvantage when it comes to Lisp :P 12:40:40 I did INSTALL Emacs and play with it a bit. 12:40:47 So, I deserve some credit :P 12:40:59 elderK: the ViM integration modes are getting better, though 12:41:05 I heard Slimv works pretty good 12:42:01 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 12:46:08 -!- cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:46:26 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:46:41 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:42 Sweet. 12:46:45 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:47:02 When I scheme or Lisp, I generally just write some vimscript to send expressions to TMUX or Screen. 12:47:09 I write my own because the ones on Wikis are broken. 12:47:23 That suits me just fine but when I read about lisp environments, well. 12:47:30 Awesome debugging capabilities, etc. 12:47:42 It's appealing. 12:47:45 Also, p_l, 12:47:57 I'd imagine writing a decent macro assembler wouldn't be trivial. 12:48:05 at least, not if you wanted to support like every instruction 12:48:11 I mean... there's so many of them. 12:48:36 elderK: slimv uses swank on the lisp side - you can debug, inspect, see backtraces, etc. 12:48:38 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 12:49:32 What is swank? 12:49:40 Is it just like telnet but for lisp implementations? 12:50:00 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:50:37 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:45 elderK: it's the server side of SLIME and the protocol it uses 12:53:34 elderK: I use almost all the CL implementations. 12:53:43 clisp for my scripts and when I have to do encoding related stuff. 12:53:50 ccl for MacOSX development. 12:53:56 ecl to embed in applications. 12:53:59 sbcl to run servers. 12:54:08 abcl when I need to run on the JVM. 12:54:22 I'm seriously considering using ECL for commercial stuff. 12:54:23 Allegro CL or Lispworks when I'm paid to. 12:54:30 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 12:54:36 It'd be neat to get a lisp job. 12:54:44 But I have no degrees so I'm unlikely to land one. 12:54:46 :/ 12:54:47 Make it yourself! Start up your own company! 12:54:49 I'm lucky to have the job I have. 12:55:01 cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has joined #lisp 12:55:05 You're lucky: you don't need a degree to start up a company: you only need customers. 12:55:11 Aye. 12:55:16 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:55:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:55:25 :) That's why I'm looking at Lisp implementations. I h ave a plan to get myself out of the company I'm working for now. 12:55:30 And then in four years time crushing them absolutely. 12:55:31 :P 12:55:37 Writing a LAP (= a decent macro assembler) is trivial. 12:55:53 Why trivial? 12:56:01 The hardest part is to encode the binary, but most processors have a very straightforward codop format. 12:56:31 And of course, you just reuse the lisp macro system for the macro part. 12:57:31 Aye. 12:57:40 What's the deal with raw access to memory in Lisp? 12:57:41 Is it possible? 12:57:51 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-116-150.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:52 Like... untyped, unfettered access. 12:58:05 You'd not need it often but it can be useful. 12:58:13 :P And yes, by trade, I'm a C/C++ programmer. 12:58:16 Mostly C++ these days. 12:58:46 elderK: see http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/40c6a489b6186518/849e5f8f14a53417?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=toy+language#849e5f8f14a53417 12:58:52 Thanks :) 12:59:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:59:30 The assembler is the lap* function, most trivial. 13:00:46 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.219] has joined #lisp 13:02:50 Still. Seems like a bunch of work. 13:02:57 Fun if you can automate much of it. 13:03:12 Since as you have said, many instructions follow the same general format. 13:03:29 :) Reading about the 68K again. 13:03:32 Love the manual. 13:03:39 :P the chip has such fucking crazy addressing modes. 13:03:40 Just nuts. 13:04:49 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-awkfsxluowiaaslm] has joined #lisp 13:05:10 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:05:11 -!- elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has left #lisp 13:05:20 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #lisp 13:05:29 :) Keep in mind I've never written an assembler before. 13:05:33 Nor a full fledged compiler. 13:05:39 So to me, it's still the unknown. 13:05:48 And would be a very fun and exciting project :) 13:06:19 Brucio-92 [~Brucio-92@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:08:28 -!- Brucio-92 [~Brucio-92@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:08:29 -!- am0c [~am0c@14.39.197.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:08:36 -!- elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has left #lisp 13:08:41 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:08:48 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #lisp 13:08:57 Brucio-92 [~Brucio-92@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:09:41 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:19 -!- Brucio-92 [~Brucio-92@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:10:46 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 13:10:46 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 Brucio-92 [~Brucio-92@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:11:54 -!- Brucio-92 [~Brucio-92@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:12:12 Q&D macro system: http://paste.lisp.org/display/132364 13:12:44 elderK: 680x0 has less instructions than a RISC processor. It has also less addressing mode than a RISC processor. 13:12:53 680x0 is more RISC than RISC processors! 13:14:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:14:34 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:14:40 elderK: there are several assemblers in the CL libraries. Have a look at them. Search them in http://cliki.net etc. 13:15:07 that's funny considering the 68K was considered a CISC. 13:15:11 and thanks pjb. 13:15:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:19:04 -!- Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483B540.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:19:13 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:19:14 Brucio-92 [~Brucio-92@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:19:43 -!- Brucio-92 [~Brucio-92@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:21:36 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B540.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:55 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@107-202-145-90.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 13:22:00 kpreid_ [~kpreid@107-202-145-90.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:02 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@188.181.106.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:23:43 Nighty night peoples. 13:23:48 Thanks fro the company. 13:23:53 and the interesting conversation :) 13:23:56 See ya! 13:24:02 -!- elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has left #lisp 13:25:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:25:47 Brucio-92 [~Brucio-92@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:28:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:29:51 tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.16.220] has joined #lisp 13:31:53 -!- cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has quit [Quit: cic__] 13:32:28 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-101-227.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:33:30 -!- Brucio-92 [~Brucio-92@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:31 c_arenz [~arenz@1Cust230.tnt12.fft4.deu.da.uu.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:37:20 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.26.45.168] has joined #lisp 13:38:57 lggr 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[~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:25:04 agumonkey [~agu@208.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:21 -!- jji [~jji@c220-239-125-8.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:34 jji [~jji@c220-239-125-8.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:28:56 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:32:55 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:33:08 Does the sharp-sharp reader macro have a well defined scope? 14:34:05 away from references, but probably "the innermost non-recursive call to READ" 14:34:11 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.24.195] has joined #lisp 14:34:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:35:37 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:35:57 Krystof: was there a word missing there? Was that supposed to be "Stay away from references"? 14:36:17 bitonic` [~user@146.169.25.115] has joined #lisp 14:37:50 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.48.251] has joined #lisp 14:38:50 no, sorry, it's "I'm away from my easy-to-pick-up reference books" 14:39:27 oh, thanks 14:41:01 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:41:36 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:45:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:46:37 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:47:29 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:48:29 Well, if it is the innermost non-recursive call, it might be good to stay away from them, as that means that the scope is defined by the implementation's read function. 14:48:56 flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 14:48:57 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 14:48:57 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 14:49:01 oh well, hacky methods aren't very robust, no news there. 14:50:55 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:51:04 Vivitron` [~user@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:12 xb 14:55:41 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:56:16 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@c-76-21-56-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:05 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:05 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:01:27 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.120] has joined #lisp 15:02:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:02:41 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@adsl-75-51-65-9.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:31 _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 15:05:14 -!- yours_truly [~yours@64.229.2.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:05:39 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:05:54 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:09:30 smithzv: I can't remember, but it's not quite "non-recursive call" that I meant: READ has an optional argument which is meant to indicate whether a call to READ should be considered as establishing a new reader context or not 15:09:47 -!- paul0 [~user@186.222.48.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:10:00 is there any way to tell if a file is being loaded/compiled by asdf? 15:10:35 Acherontius [~user@cpe-071-070-091-120.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:47 Krystof, smithzv: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/23_acb.htm 15:10:56 PuffTheMagic, you mean like in the fasl? 15:11:22 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.24.195] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 15:11:28 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 15:11:40 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:11:50 im trying to change the build system of a project to use asdf instead of this half baked home made build system 15:12:00 but im trying not to be super invasive to the code 15:12:17 -!- peccu [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 15:13:46 peccu [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:13:59 -!- peccu [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 15:14:28 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@adsl-75-51-65-9.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:07 peccu [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:15:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:15:32 -!- peccu is now known as PECCU 15:16:15 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: guyal] 15:16:22 -!- PECCU [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 15:16:44 peccu [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:17:27 -!- replore [~replore@FL1-122-135-249-222.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:59 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@187.101.235.227] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:18:03 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 15:18:26 smithzv: so it doesn't depend on the implementation, but it may depend on how the reader macros you're using are written. You can trust the standard reader macros, but if you use used defined reader macros, they may initiate non recursive reading, which would break #=/##. 15:18:36 I'd consider that a bug. 15:20:58 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-fyidqcdwajgimpxf] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:21:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:22:14 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.48.251] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 15:22:38 PuffTheMagic: see *load-pathname* *compile-file-pathname* 15:24:28 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 15:24:41 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:47 -!- yakov [~yakov@195.144.239.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:25:08 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 15:26:02 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:27:03 -!- hugod [~user@70.24.177.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:27:13 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-jhnzdgyncixukvwe] has joined #lisp 15:27:44 sabalaba [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:09 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:32:38 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:33:11 Thanks for the reference, Vivitron, that is exactly what I needed to see. Also, thanks pjb and Krystof (again). 15:34:26 mdh [~user@cpe-76-93-184-178.san.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:41:14 freshbone123 [~fresh_her@p579C4D98.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:29 (hello (all)) 15:41:55 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:45:26 -!- bitonic [~user@146.169.25.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:46:54 -!- ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:48:30 paul0 [~user@186.222.48.210] has joined #lisp 15:48:31 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-svcfhxoziingpwee] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:50:15 ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #lisp 15:51:16 yakov [~yakov@195.144.239.226] has joined #lisp 15:52:23 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-122.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 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17:08:04 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:08:52 daniel1 [~daniel@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 17:08:56 mpstyler [~mpstyler@176.73.151.79] has joined #lisp 17:08:56 homie [~homie@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:09:09 -!- daniel1 is now known as ANDRES1 17:09:24 -!- ANDRES1 [~daniel@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 17:09:44 -!- bitonic [~user@146.169.25.115] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:10:03 eldar [~CLD@pppoe-197-232-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:10:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10:46 Yee [~Ooo@42.108.22.233] has joined #lisp 17:11:41 with asdf, is there a way to load all .lisp files in a directory, instead of having to add all files manually? 17:11:52 no 17:12:27 well that is inconvenient 17:13:03 it is rather (: 17:13:03 it's fine. It has to be defined somewhere anyway. 17:13:16 but then, you don't have to worry about load order and file names 17:14:01 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:14:15 i need to have a folder where people can just drop files in and it will load them with the rest of the system 17:14:35 DrPete [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has joined #lisp 17:14:46 you can make an asdf component that does that. 17:14:49 PuffTheMagic: you could generate the asdf:defsystem form automatically. 17:14:51 have your program loop through any .lisp files in that directory and LOAD them. 17:14:56 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 17:15:02 if order doesn't matter... 17:15:09 but there's nothing in asdf that does it out of the box 17:15:20 "it shouldn't be hard" 17:15:33 it doesnt, but I would rather asdf do it than my program, that way the compiled files all stay in the same cache dir 17:15:46 guess I could genearte the defsystem automatically 17:15:58 the asdf extension goes into the asd file. Non need to generate a defsystem. 17:16:09 (asdf:defsystem  #.(mapcar (lambda (path) `(:file ,(file-namestring path))) (directory (make-pathname "*.lisp" (or *load-pathname* *compile-file-pathname*))))) ; something like that. 17:16:19 ugh 17:16:26 prxq: huh? 17:16:55 prxq: you are suggesting make an extension rather than generate the defsystem? 17:17:05 PuffTheMagic: right. 17:17:16 like add a :directory keyword 17:17:17 asdf is intended to be used like that 17:17:19 hmm 17:17:23 PuffTheMagic: also see: https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/tools/make-depends.lisp 17:18:00 i will have to check out some of the existing extensions 17:19:21 The problem with adding all the files in a directory, is that you don't get any dependencies. You need to analyse those files to establish dependencies. That's what make-depend does. 17:19:58 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:20:47 dustingetz [~dgetz@23-24-28-29-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:48 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:12 sure that is a problem 17:21:23 this would only be useful when there are no dependencies 17:21:28 jnbek|wc_ [~jnbek@74-220-196-108.bluehost.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:29 -!- jnbek|wc_ [~jnbek@74-220-196-108.bluehost.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:21:29 jnbek|wc_ [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has joined #lisp 17:21:36 maybe check out xcvb, I believe it does the file discovery automatically 17:21:37 that arent already specified with depends-on 17:21:46 and goes by dep lists in the file header or something 17:22:37 like i said, i dont need deps for this 17:23:25 homie [~homie@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:23:28 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:25:58 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:28:52 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.69.110.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:29:17 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.31.231.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 17:29:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:30:38 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:31:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-101.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:31:34 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 17:32:52 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:35:51 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35:57 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Quit: ] 17:37:02 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:37:55 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:05 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:16 -!- nydel is now known as isis 17:39:22 -!- isis is now known as isismelting 17:39:32 homie [~homie@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:39:35 -!- isismelting [~nydel@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:40:05 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:41:04 isismelting [~isismelti@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:19 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:41:57 -!- `fogus [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:42:25 gilez [~gdmalet@tux.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:42:39 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:43:10 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:43:24 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-112-017.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 17:44:11 nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:12 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:55 -!- isismelting [~isismelti@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:11 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-194-122.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 17:48:19 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:48:29 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 17:49:08 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:46 isismelting [~isismelti@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:39 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:54:34 c_arenz [~arenz@1Cust227.tnt12.fft4.deu.da.uu.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:50 sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:23 -!- isismelting [~isismelti@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:31 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:56:49 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 17:58:38 ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 17:58:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:00:00 -!- yakov [~yakov@195.144.239.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:01:58 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:02:19 CoverSlide [~richard@pool-71-103-141-185.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:44 homie [~homie@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:03:13 is there a quick way to drop an extension off a filename 18:05:04 (subseq fname :end (or (position #\. fname :from-end t) nil)) 18:05:24 (or ... nil) is dumb. 18:05:34 so ignore that part 18:05:35 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:56 :end should be 0 18:06:00 *dlowe* sighs. 18:06:06 -!- jnbek|wc_ [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:34 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.31.231.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:06:42 and subseq doesn't have keyword arguments, just optional end 18:06:42 PuffTheMagic: it may make sense to add a depends-on. The asdf loads all the rest before going through that special directory 18:06:54 (for example, I mean) 18:07:00 Bike: right. that's what I meant about :end should be 0 18:07:16 prxq: i already have the deps taken care of 18:07:31 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.30.211.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 18:07:59 -!- kpreid_ [~kpreid@107-202-145-90.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:08:46 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:08:53 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:21 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 18:09:30 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@1Cust227.tnt12.fft4.deu.da.uu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:10:15 foreignFunction1 [~niksaak@94.27.89.50] has joined #lisp 18:10:30 PuffTheMagic: alternately: (merge-pathnames (make-pathname :type :unspecific) (pathname "foo.ext")) 18:11:01 ooh thats nicer 18:11:53 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 18:12:10 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.52.213] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 18:12:14 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:12:31 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:13:26 woot! 18:13:30 :components #.(mapcar #'(lambda (x) `(:file ,(file-namestring (merge-pathnames (make-pathname :type :unspecific) (pathname x))))) (directory "*.lisp")) 18:13:44 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:14:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:14:14 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.30.211.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:15:49 -!- foreignFunction1 [~niksaak@94.27.89.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:16:00 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.50] has joined #lisp 18:16:03 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 18:16:45 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 18:18:04 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 18:18:08 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:19:43 sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:50 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:23:49 PuffTheMagic: (make-pathname :type nil :defaults path) 18:24:25 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:25:02 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:11 hm. forgot about that. 18:27:57 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:28:03 orthecreedence [~kvirc@c-67-180-62-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:04 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:28:40 hi 18:29:04 who prefers what HTML tempating library for CL? I know about html-template and cl-closure-template 18:29:34 cl-who is nice 18:30:14 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30:18 i like sexml (disclaimer: shameless self-promotion) 18:30:33 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:30:37 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #lisp 18:30:38 awesome name 18:30:46 hadnt heard of that one yet 18:31:22 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:32:08 later, i discovered i wasn't the first one to use it, though it wasn't in use in lisp afaik 18:33:15 antonv: I like html-template well enough. 18:33:56 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:34:51 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:52 well, snaking a name is fine if your library is good (looking through your github it looks pretty awesome) 18:35:00 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 18:35:10 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Quit: ] 18:35:14 oh, hey, an actual use of contextl to look at. 18:35:24 sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:47 user123abc_ [~sally@CMU-799241.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 18:35:53 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:37:17 Bike: yes, I also made such note for myself, to remember it as an contextL example 18:37:33 -!- user123abc_ [~sally@CMU-799241.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:38:11 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:38:24 orthecreedence: it depends on what you want. if you prefer to write html itself, not s-expressions, then i guess html-template is to be preferred. i find the syntax of it cumbersome, so i prefer something based on s-expressions :) 18:38:55 aside from playing around a bit, i havent actually used any html templating engines for CL 18:39:00 Bike: i somewhat took advantage of contextl there, it may not be the best example. i use contextl there at compiletime which is a bit hairy 18:39:14 better than nothing. 18:39:15 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 18:39:29 Bike: madnificent and also an example of literate programming, which I am interested in 18:39:40 i think if i was serious about it though, i'd probably try out sexp since you don't need a closing tag, and i prefer the "syntax" 18:40:39 antonv: we do a lot in literate programming these days. Knuth's papers is one of the saddest literary works i've ever read. too bad support for it isn't perfect. coding lisp files gives you a bit more support with slime. 18:40:51 Saddest? 18:41:33 user123abc_ [~sally@CMU-799241.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 18:41:36 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:41:38 hum, lots of odd warnings when trying a dbus dtd... 18:41:48 Bike: it ends with Knuth realising that it was a great find, and him joking about it becoming big. as if he knew it would happen, but he didn't want to go ahead and claim it already. then you read the date and you realize it hadden't happened. for me, that was sad. 18:41:57 Bike: that's possible 18:42:02 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:42:08 Bike: it's about the expansion IIRC 18:42:17 (but it will not bark on you at runtime) 18:42:33 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 18:42:51 a lot of knuth's work is kind of like that for me. like in taocp when he talks about linked lists to try to get people to understand how they really work and can implement them themselves, instead of using some big opaque system like LISP :P 18:42:58 madnificent: yeah, lots of pcl 18:43:31 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43:34 Bike: pcl? 18:43:40 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 18:44:10 if speak of literate programming, I with there were online code browser with colorization (like on github), but supporting to hyperlinking between files 18:44:10 like «The variable SB-PCL::.ARGS-TAIL. is defined but never used.», in what I assume are methods. 18:44:19 homie [~homie@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:44:44 Bike: yes, i've seen them too. i don't think i found a way to remove them. probably should dive into where SBCL discovers that in order to figure out how to remove that. 18:44:45 * I wiSH 18:45:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-101.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:45:55 antonv: you can create html documents from the files (with org-mode), perhaps that'll get you started for something like that :) 18:46:24 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 18:46:30 well, it does seem to work, at least :) 18:47:02 madnificent: so you write sources in the .org file, then generate .lisp and .asd source from the .org, and them compile them with ASDF? 18:47:03 Bike: if you need it on CCL, you should probably fetch the current master. it's been fixed recently 18:47:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:48:16 antonv: yeah, you 'tangle' them which produces the correct files. you can then load them. if you switch to the correct package in slime you can get code-hints about the relevant sections when you edit a piece of code. and you can compile functions etc. however, things like M-. go to the .lisp file, not to the .org file. 18:48:28 -!- ioa [~xmike@dynamic2-248-005.usc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:48:42 hm, any particular reason you used ensure-active-layer and all instead of with-active-layers? 18:49:33 wait, no, I misunderstood. 18:51:45 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:52:32 -!- fmu [~^fmu@unaffiliated/fmu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:51 -!- _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: _d3f] 18:53:00 fmu [~^fmu@unaffiliated/fmu] has joined #lisp 18:56:16 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:57:02 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:00:35 I'm messing with a library with tons of conditional evaluation depending on what lisp implementation is being used, is there an easy way to rewrite the files with just what SBCL sees? 19:01:15 ltbarcly1: use slime to visualize it, it will use the comment face for any code that's not conditionalized for the current implementation. 19:01:25 seems like you could do some clever elisp there 19:01:58 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:02:06 slime already lowlights forms that won't be read, here. 19:02:11 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@37.147.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:02:21 pjb: yea, it does, I tried manually going through it but after a few hours of that I realized I had broken it in a couple of spots, and had a lot left to go 19:02:22 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:24 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:03:04 basically I'm trying to strip it down to SBCL code, then go through and remove the parts I don't need for my project so that I have something manageable that I can then start evolving toward what I need 19:03:33 is there a reason you can't just use what already works? 19:03:34 right now the code is somewhat spagetti, and it's hard to get it to a point where I can refactor it effectively 19:03:35 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:03:57 You could write easily a function that would read the sources, and spread the code for the various implementations into different files. 19:04:14 pjb: would it just be reading in the forms and printing them back out? 19:04:36 presumably the conditional evaluation happens at read time, so if sbcl reads it it would only see what is relevant to it? 19:04:52 yes 19:05:06 but you can use your own reader macro for #+ and #-! 19:05:16 -!- Acherontius [~user@cpe-071-070-091-120.sc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:39 `fogus [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:30 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.12.174] has joined #lisp 19:07:01 RomyRomy [stickycake@nat/hackerschool.com/x-xgnkxzzqbuocqlpr] has joined #lisp 19:07:23 sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:12 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:09:01 steve____ [~steve@132.198.136.168] has joined #lisp 19:10:21 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:11:36 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:12:06 enoan [~xmike@dynamic2-248-005.usc.edu] has joined #lisp 19:12:34 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:13:53 homie [~homie@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:15:09 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:15:16 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:18:49 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:19:47 homie [~homie@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:20:39 is there a way to override fontconfig for mcclim-truetype etc.. ?? 19:21:15 since i'm on windows, and the fonts are there and ready to be used, but fontconfig has to be configured via hand or so it tells me.... 19:21:34 -!- eldar [~CLD@pppoe-197-232-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 19:21:36 so i have to proceed within the debugger....manually....by telling it proceed..... 19:22:24 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:23:26 deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:50 zolk3ri_ [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:24:25 ISF [~ivan@187.64.220.85] has joined #lisp 19:26:44 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:29:02 superflit [~superflit@75-166-69-101.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit 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[~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 20:05:51 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:07:53 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.198.166] has joined #lisp 20:08:48 -!- peccu [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:22 -!- jji [~jji@c220-239-125-8.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:24 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:10:46 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:15:47 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:16:11 Daisy [~Daisy@94.191.163.25.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 20:16:41 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:16:58 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 20:20:14 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:22:17 -!- eslg [~ulgen@92.243.190.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:25 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:22:55 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:24:49 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 20:26:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:28:26 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-139-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:29:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:29:30 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:29:37 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-116-150.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:30:11 -!- `fogus is now known as `fogus|away 20:30:27 Bigyout [~Bigman@72.27.77.101] has joined #lisp 20:30:54 hello! 20:31:09 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 20:31:34 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:32:13 -!- Bigyout is now known as New2AS 20:32:24 -!- New2AS [~Bigman@72.27.77.101] has left #lisp 20:35:59 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:36:17 hello 20:37:03 cross_ [cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:05 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:38 bobbysmith007 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:53 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:40:32 hello 20:40:51 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-172-230.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 20:40:59 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:41:02 hi :) 20:41:16 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 20:41:28 eheh 20:44:48 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:45:28 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:46:28 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.32.71] has joined #lisp 20:48:19 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:52:41 -!- lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:53:15 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:46 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:54:24 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:54:52 -!- mrm [~user@77.79.157.158.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:55:01 -!- agumonkey [~agu@208.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:55:18 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-250-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:57:06 -!- user123abc_ [~sally@CMU-799241.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:57:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:58:56 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.32.71] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 20:59:56 user123abc_ [~sally@CMU-799241.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:01:42 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 21:01:55 dto [~user@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:57 -!- mpstyler [~mpstyler@176.73.151.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:01:59 Xach: hey. 21:03:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:04:40 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:06:56 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.198.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:07:04 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:08:41 -!- SHUPFS [~hercules@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:09:47 in case anyone wants to see more of the dto-lisp-games-retrospective videos, i've put a bunch of new playthroughs (one for each of my major games) up on http://blocky.io in the "games" section. 21:09:47 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 21:09:48 enjoy. 21:13:04 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:15:31 dto: how long before you delete it all? 21:15:35 SHUPFS [~hercules@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:16:55 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 21:17:16 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 21:18:07 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:18:50 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:21:52 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-172-230.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:22:20 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:24:23 Why? Are hard disks shrinking? 21:24:56 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-172-230.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:25:08 sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:21 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 21:25:39 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:26:12 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:17 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3861.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:27:25 I can not open http://www.cliki.net/ 21:28:13 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:28:31 antonv: neither can I. 21:28:45 down here too ! 21:28:55 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-11-239.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:29:07 may be someone should mirror it ? 21:29:36 there's always cliki2 21:31:21 pkhuong: cliki2 is still running? what is the address? 21:31:28 Yes, seems down. 21:31:34 This afternoon it was still working. 21:31:37 whom to inform about cliki problem? Vladimir Sedach? 21:32:03 For lisppaste its clo-devel@common-lisp.net ; perhaps the same for cliki? 21:32:37 dto [~user@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:32:56 -!- rickardg [~user@c-96a0e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:33:51 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:34:08 mailing vsedach directly probably gets his attention faster 21:34:23 I've sent him a letter 21:34:37 email is preferred 21:35:33 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:36:22 jlongster [~user@pool-98-117-94-43.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:38 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 21:37:15 jlongste` [~user@pool-98-117-94-43.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:43 kmels 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joined #lisp 21:54:43 -!- enoan [~xmike@dynamic2-248-005.usc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:56:44 Xach: don't be a douche 21:57:48 Natch_d [~Natch@c-1dcce155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:00:05 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-1dcce155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:00:06 -!- Natch_d is now known as Natch 22:01:11 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:03:15 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:00 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:04:04 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.16.220] has left #lisp 22:05:54 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:06:53 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 22:07:51 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 22:09:57 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[Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:26 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.46.67] has joined #lisp 23:09:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:10:33 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-224-240.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:13:08 cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has joined #lisp 23:13:33 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:14:55 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:15:12 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 23:16:41 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:17:24 rickardg [~user@c-96a0e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 23:17:49 Thra11_ [~thrall@37.147.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:21 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-101-227.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:19 -!- ltbarcly1 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[~ralith@d142-058-172-230.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:45:24 -!- tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 23:45:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:47:00 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 23:47:43 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-172-230.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 23:48:50 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:52:32 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-172-230.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:43 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:52:49 superflit_ [~superflit@209-180-243-233.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:10 -!- superflit [~superflit@75-166-69-101.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:53:11 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 23:53:17 LiamH [~healy@pool-173-73-125-152.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:55:11 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:55:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:55:45 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-78-211.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:52 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:21 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:58:42 ... lol. I just found a lisp job on odesk 23:58:44 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:59:10 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:59:29 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]