00:00:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:01:44 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:45 guess I could port my code back to iolib 00:01:53 switch to usocket 00:02:46 i haven't used iolib extensively, but i know it gets around a lot of the issues that usocket can't just because it calls out to C a lot 00:03:19 pjb- [~pjb-@81.202.16.46] has joined #lisp 00:04:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:05:32 -!- SsvRrwQ` [~user@24.68.50.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:36 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: good night/dobranoc] 00:06:38 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:07:08 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:08:27 catmtking [~catmtking@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-66-200.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 00:08:58 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:46 -!- sabalaba1 [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:11:26 i used iolib like 2 years ago on this project, then didnt write lisp for 2 years, came back to working on it recently and was having issues so i went to usocket 00:11:43 actually rewrote everything 00:11:53 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:11:54 so now that its all working it will prob be easy to go back to iolib 00:11:55 damn, that sucks 00:12:07 oh good 00:12:07 well i rewrote it to make it better 00:12:10 sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:30 so unix domain sockets a requirement? 00:12:40 no im using tcp at the moment 00:12:50 but most of the time this is all going to run on the same machine 00:13:10 ah, so you'd get the performance benefit 00:13:11 so im hoping I I can remove some latency by optionally using unix sockets 00:13:14 ya 00:13:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:13:35 -!- pjb- [~pjb-@81.202.16.46] has quit [Quit: from my iPad] 00:14:21 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:24 im trying to create a generic way for ACT-R, a cognitive architecture written in lisp, to interact with environments that are not written in lisp 00:14:47 so i have a json/netstring rpc going right now 00:14:50 works pretty well 00:16:02 xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 00:16:23 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-66-200.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: catmtking] 00:17:51 oh cool, sounds awesome 00:18:06 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:18:19 never heard of ACT-R, i'll check it out 00:19:55 http://act-r.psy.cmu.edu/actr6 00:21:02 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:22:14 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:23:21 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 00:23:37 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@99-130-100-63.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:26:35 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:09 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 00:28:52 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:33:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:35:49 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:05 agumonkey [~agu@208.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:01 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:45:13 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:47:53 Does anyone know: is it possible to have two SLIME inspectors going concurrently? 00:49:07 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [] 00:50:34 squama [~squama@c114-77-45-236.brodm3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:51:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:52:11 unfortunately I'm having trouble finding examples of &key with defmethod, basically I want to do this: 00:53:14 (defgeneric (x y &key z) 00:53:14 (:method ((x someclass) y &key z) ...) 00:53:14 (:method ((x someclass) y) ..)) 00:53:24 and have it specialize to the first method if the key is there, otherwise not 00:53:32 No. 00:53:33 can't do it 00:53:38 It should be distinct classes. 00:53:48 and you must have &key everywhere. 00:53:50 that is not how key arguments should be used 00:54:08 (:method ((x someOtherClass) y &key &allow-other-keys) ...) 00:54:25 you see what I mean though, I want polymorphism on the number of params as well as the type 00:54:31 and I have no clue :) 00:55:01 But you can write a function with &rest and &key, and have it call a generic function dispatching on mandatory arguments that come from the keys. 00:55:31 (defmethod f ((number-of-param (eql 0)) )) (defmethod f ((number-of-param (eql 1)) )) etc. 00:55:39 (f (length rest) ) 00:55:46 -!- jasox-afk is now known as jasox 00:56:19 -!- bitonic [~user@93.40.104.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:56:45 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:58:04 oh, so I could say (defmethod f (member :somekey rest) ...? 00:58:12 No. 00:58:15 Just eql. 00:58:31 You don't read the tutorials and the reference? 00:58:51 ltbarcly: I think you should probably reconsider your design. Could you explain a bit what this gf actually does? 00:58:56 I'm reading it the best I can I guess, I have CLTL on the way, but in the meantime I suck I guess 00:59:03 Bike: sure 00:59:15 I'm writing something that takes an AST and spits out CL 00:59:26 Generic functions may dispatch only on mandatory parameters. 01:00:49 so i have a method that handles a certain node type, in this case suite-statements, which are basically bodies of blocks of code 01:00:51 ltbarcly: I'm puzzled. AST are already SEXPS! 01:01:14 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:19 (if (= a b) (print 1) (incf b)) is an AST! 01:01:26 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:32 the AST generated is not lisp, here is an example: 01:01:45 (car form) is the operator of the AST node; (cdr form) is the list of children nodes! 01:01:47 (module-stmt 01:01:47 (suite-stmt 01:01:47 ((assign-stmt 01:01:47 (binary-expr + (literal-expr NUMBER 1) (literal-expr NUMBER 1)) 01:01:47 ((identifier-expr x))) 01:01:47 (assign-stmt 01:01:48 (binary-expr + (identifier-expr x) (literal-expr NUMBER 1)) 01:01:48 ((identifier-expr y))) 01:01:49 (funcdef-stmt NIL (identifier-expr baz) 01:01:49 (((identifier-expr x)) NIL NIL NIL) 01:01:50 (suite-stmt 01:01:50 ((assign-stmt (literal-expr NUMBER 5) 01:01:51 ((identifier-expr x))) 01:01:51 (print-stmt NIL ((identifier-expr x)) NIL))))))) 01:02:27 you probably should have pasted that, but ok. 01:02:30 where's the gf come in? 01:02:32 yea, sorry 01:03:11 ok, so I have a class node-visitor that has a bunch of methods, one for each node type, and a generic visit method that dispatches out to those other methods 01:03:29 the class also has one slot, which is used to do book-keeping for namespacing 01:03:32 (defmethod compile-form ((tag (eql module-stmt)) form) ) (defmethod compile-form ((tag (eql suite-stmt)) form) ) 01:03:41 (compile-form (first form) form) 01:04:13 yeah, I'd do something like that. dispatch on the first bit and have the functions dispatched to do all the processing themselves. 01:04:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:04:15 pjb: I didn't realize I could do that, I'll try converting to that 01:04:22 so here is the rub 01:04:37 Or, you could just write macros: (defmacro module-stmt () ) 01:04:50 with the advantage that defmacro = defmethod + destructuring-bind 01:05:11 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:05:16 sometimes I need to change the structure, for example if I'm at top-level I need to make assignments defparameter, if I'm not I need to either do let or setf depending on whether a given name is already defined according to the namespace rules of this language 01:05:49 You can pass an environment argument to compile-form 01:06:26 yea, the environment is handled as a slot, so I'm effectively doing that 01:06:36 (defmethod compile-form ((tag (eql module-stmt)) form environment) (compile-form (second form) (expand-environment 'module-stmt environment)) ) 01:06:45 (defclass node-visitor () ((namespace-stack :initform nil))) 01:06:58 i'm not sure what you need a visitor class for. 01:07:23 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:24 if you use a slot, it's not functional anymore, and you need to modify it on entry and on exit. Also, it'll break with multi-threading. 01:07:32 right now with a single slot I don't, but I don't want to go revisit every call if I need to add another slot, for example to handle bookeeping on something else 01:07:48 I mean, what are the objects even for? 01:08:35 well, one nice thing is that I can define :before and :after methods to do the pushing and popping of namespaces 01:08:43 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 01:08:57 Yes, clos can be nicely abused, no problem here. 01:10:07 a recursive compile-form with that sort of information in the environment is how I'd do it. guess I'll just go back to my corner. 01:11:11 ok, I'm going to go and try that 01:11:21 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 01:11:48 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:12:50 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B27C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:36 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B573.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:15:22 gurugeeka [~gurugeeka@174-30.60-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 01:15:32 hello ! did anyone try caveman ? 01:15:33 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:15:50 -!- gurugeeka is now known as devnull 01:16:20 -!- devnull is now known as Guest72995 01:16:21 Yes, the cavewomen. They didn't like him apparently, and chosed to make it evolve to the footballer and the computer programmer. 01:16:32 -!- Guest72995 is now known as lispnull 01:16:35 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:16:38 err I meant http://fukamachi.github.com/caveman/ 01:16:43 ;-) 01:16:46 :) 01:17:08 I have a quick question : it works fine for me and on sbcl I have ; Loading "clack-handler-hunchentoot" 01:17:09 ... 01:17:28 so the question is how do I stop the webserver gracefully like without keeping then the process busy 01:17:51 KenLZhang [~quassel@202.103.17.16] has joined #lisp 01:18:40 IIRC hunchentoot has a stop server function. 01:18:49 like how to stop hunchentoot from sbcl ? 01:19:01 Yes. 01:19:02 just curious, anyone has done something to make CL a stored procedure for postgres? I think the idea is natual and I found one relevant mail thread in 2004 (http://lists.b9.com/pipermail/clsql/2004-November/000175.html) 01:20:30 huangjs: I suspect that it's just a matter of figuring out how to connect it up, there are java stored procedures so it's not an embedding question 01:22:27 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:42 is anyone available for paid teaching lessons ? :) online I mean 01:23:09 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 01:23:55 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:24:00 Do you really need them? 01:24:12 There's so much teaching material about lisp! I mean, since 1959 01:24:49 pjb: yes because I am trying to do some simple web apps and is not so straightforward so I could use some lessons so learn by doing / see someone expert doing it 01:25:11 Right. I never used caveman yet. 01:25:17 pjb: list webframeworks are not so well documented 01:25:35 pjb: well I know but of course knowing lisp would make it much faster I guess ?:) did you use any web framework ? 01:25:45 But if you know some other framework, your have just tried to write a web app without, you should get it already. 01:26:00 huangjs: http://plscheme.projects.postgresql.org/ 01:26:31 lispnull: have you done web apps before? 01:26:54 I find that it is very bad to try to learn 2 things at the same time, so if you don't know lisp well, or don't know web programming well, don't try to bite both off at the same time 01:27:24 otherwise whenever something doesn't work you'll be scratching your head about what your code is doing exactly as well as is what it is trying to do the right thing to try to do 01:27:35 ltbarcly yes in ruby and php 01:27:53 ltbarcly and perl 01:27:55 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:28:07 so you know http and cookies and all that by heart? 01:28:22 ltbarcly yes thats not an issue really 01:28:25 headers, url-encoding, etc 01:28:45 ltbarcly I just e.g. don't have some examples on how a lisp web framework does things like forms validations 01:28:52 I'm guessing they just don't 01:29:12 ltbarcly umhh but there is for sure a way to do it :) this is the fun part 01:29:14 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:29:23 I did try this and it worked fine http://www.adampetersen.se/articles/lispweb.htm 01:31:06 I've found lisp web frameworks to be either pretty rudimentary, which is fine, but in that case they won't do a lot of magic like form validation for you, or they are highly experimental, like continuation based stuff 01:31:33 ltbarcly yes I understand that. I am not trying to do the impossible 01:32:01 lispnull: practical common lisp is a nice book for learning lisp, and you can get it free. 01:32:27 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-163-100.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:32:28 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:32:47 Bike: does it have anything about web apps too ? 01:32:49 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:08 oh, no. 01:33:32 <_tca> what exactly is special about web apps? 01:33:38 Bike: yes I did have it sorry..yes I did read part of it but unfortunately it has mostly things not related to web 01:33:51 well, you have to know how to program first. 01:33:55 <_tca> once you get comfortable with lisp writing small tools like form validators for yourself is trivial 01:34:09 _tca: simple things like a simple site (this is easy to do in caveman as it has all routes + mysql or sqlite) just trying to do it right e.g. to add a form etc. 01:34:43 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: catmtking] 01:34:48 _tca: I know but I do learn better with a tutor so if someone has time (not necessarily now but in general) and wants to tutor on a per hour basis can just msg me :) serious offer 01:35:17 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:35:18 I do offer free hosting in ruby, php, perl at http://1.ai and just interested to add lisp so I did wanted to learn abit more first 01:35:44 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:36:09 I can install and run caveman apps ..I tried also http://weblocks.viridian-project.de which has forms and all but I can't even get it to run not even with their shell installer 01:36:26 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:39:58 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 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[75c98a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.201.138.87] has joined #lisp 03:55:28 I have an array in lisp with some values. Now I want to set ith element in the array to a new value. May I know how can I do it? 03:55:46 (setf (elt array-name i) value) 03:56:01 Although if it's always going to be an array, use aref instead of elt. 03:56:03 saschakb_ [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 03:56:36 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:58:00 orangepnut [~cody@fl-184-4-188-163.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:01 -!- orangepnut [~cody@fl-184-4-188-163.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:58:01 orangepnut [~cody@unaffiliated/orangepnut] has joined #lisp 03:59:06 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:01:26 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:04:36 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:04:36 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04:56 momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573a85.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:04:56 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:39 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:05:41 anyone tried cl-sphinx? 04:05:46 The_Sorceror [~Sorceror@42.109.210.225] has joined #lisp 04:06:17 -!- The_Sorceror [~Sorceror@42.109.210.225] has quit [Client Quit] 04:06:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.49.125] has joined #lisp 04:06:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.49.125] has quit [Changing host] 04:06:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:08:09 xpoqz [~xpoqz@80.203.124.203] has joined #lisp 04:09:18 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:10:22 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:11:21 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-193-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:12:13 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-154-85.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:13:39 lggr 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Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.11.2.142] has joined #lisp 05:30:24 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:30:50 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.11.2.142] has quit [Client Quit] 05:33:46 jji [~jji@c220-239-125-8.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:34:30 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 05:35:43 Melu [75c98a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.201.138.87] has joined #lisp 05:36:02 How can I restrict variables to a function? 05:36:17 Meaning? 05:36:17 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:36:48 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:05 Scope of the variable should be resticted to a function 05:38:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:38:25 Melu: use let. 05:40:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:42:51 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:44:54 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:45:59 teggi [~teggi@113.172.46.248] has joined #lisp 05:47:14 -!- xpoqz [~xpoqz@80.203.124.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:50:33 Well, no. 05:50:33 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:50:50 (let ((x 42)) (defun f () x) (defun g () (setf x 0))) ; here x is not restricted to a function. 05:51:09 (defun f () (let ((x 42)) x)) ; here it is not restricted to a function either. 05:51:37 (defun f (&aux (x 42)) x) ; here it "restricted to a function" for some meaning of "restricted" 05:52:03 well, yes, I'm assuming what melu actually wants is the second. 05:52:05 maus [~maus@113.172.59.209] has joined #lisp 05:52:36 What Melu wants is basically meaningless. 05:52:46 Variables are stricted to their scope. That's all. 05:54:13 -!- maus [~maus@113.172.59.209] has quit [Client Quit] 05:54:36 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.179.236] has joined #lisp 05:54:38 maus [~maus@113.172.59.209] has joined #lisp 05:55:02 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:55:54 -!- maus [~maus@113.172.59.209] has quit [Client Quit] 05:59:10 -!- Melu [75c98a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.201.138.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:00:53 -!- orangepnut [~cody@unaffiliated/orangepnut] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:01:56 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:02:04 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:02:09 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-119-145.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:02:56 -!- nipra [~Adium@122.161.223.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:03:02 nipra1 [~Adium@122.161.41.185] has joined #lisp 06:06:04 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: catmtking] 06:06:35 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:06:36 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:06:38 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:06:56 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:11 lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has joined #lisp 06:10:48 rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has joined #lisp 06:10:56 "Code = Data" theory help needed. 06:10:57 havenn [~havenn@pool-71-254-186-233.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:29 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:11:34 Just really pissed a guy off by saying I think there could be cases where storing code in a DB would be good, but my ideas are vague enough that I couldn't win the conversation before he wrote me off for good. =) 06:12:48 be brief :) 06:13:03 DigLiv [~chatzilla@101.103.141.208] has joined #lisp 06:13:17 Be brief in such conversations or be brief in my discussion of the idea, here? 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07:23:11 first of all, I don't know why you would get pissed off by someone saying something general about computers, unless there is a lot more context 07:23:16 I just know that Lisp is a culture of "Data is Code and vice-versa", I wondered if anyone had played with taking it as far as storing code in the db. 07:23:25 yea, lots of people do stuff like that 07:23:28 ltbarcly: He worked on some crappy system that stored Perl code in SQL tables. 07:23:33 ltbarcly: What are some winning use cases? 07:23:34 I mean, that could mean lots of stuff 07:23:43 it depends what you mean exactly 07:24:09 if you mean stored procedures and triggers, then you have to strike a balance (ok, that's true of everything), but it often makes sense 07:24:30 otoh, storing actual perl code in db tables is iffy at best, although I can imagine scenarios where it makes sense 07:24:40 rking: if someone tells you "code in the database is bad" based on perl+sql experience, it is hard to continue debating. 07:25:14 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.130] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 07:25:26 really the question is why you are doing it 07:25:29 rking: there certainly are problems with storing arbitrary code in the database, from a perspective of revieability, traceability and refactoring. 07:25:49 H4ns is hitting the nail on the head 07:26:22 rking: but if you, say, store dsl clauses in a database, what could be wrong with it? or, if you have a system where all code is in a database and the ide interacts with it properly, why would that be "wrong"? 07:26:49 it could become a complete mess very quickly, versioning is going to be really ugly, lots of peoblems 07:26:57 agumonkey [~agu@86.72.217.208] has joined #lisp 07:26:58 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:27:19 rking: I take it this is not for stored procedures or something like that 07:27:24 ltbarcly: that is what the "properly" is about. i've yet to see such a lisp based system. 07:27:37 well, there is nothing magical about lisp in this context 07:28:16 ltbarcly: yes and no. common lisp is defined in terms of files. 07:28:27 lisp itself is kindof such a system, if you think of a fasl or a running lisp system as a kind of database, but clearly that isn't what you mean 07:28:32 but the tradeoffs would be the same 07:28:34 ltbarcly: whereas, say, smalltalk has no such dependency. 07:28:50 imagine instead of using source control, you had a running lisp system and people just connected to it and redefined things as necessary 07:29:18 ltbarcly: "instead of"? i'd rather say the database becomes "source control" 07:29:28 it's not source control 07:29:42 it's just a pickle jar, unless you put a lot of audit tables to track versions or something 07:29:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:29:46 I don't know. I'm just thinking through it from various angles. 07:29:52 but 'database as version control' is fossil 07:29:57 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:59 IMO if you're storing markup in a table, you're storing a form of code. 07:30:05 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:12 ltbarcly: now you're talking your experience. 07:30:29 rking: correct. that is the dsl clauses thing. 07:31:08 rking: and many database folks don't like it, because they like to be able to use their database query language to manipulate everything in a database. 07:31:22 I've worked on a few systems like this, one where all the logic in the system was in stored procedures that existed only in the database 07:31:27 "fasl" == ? 07:31:36 rking: fasl == dsl clauses 07:31:37 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:31:42 Hrm 07:31:45 and another where a tool would generate 'code', really more like an AST for the system, to do web scraping rules 07:31:55 What does it stand for? 07:32:06 both systems ended up being scrapped because of maintenance problems 07:32:31 fasl is fast load iirc 07:33:16 hi, I have trouble getting cl+ssl library to work 07:33:34 rking: so, just for fun, what is the goal of putting the code in the db? 07:33:40 or is this just a thought exercise 07:33:41 it complains it can't load libssl although its present in system 07:33:55 zmyrgel: is it using FFI? 07:34:13 ltbarcly: yes, cffi. Seems there's something fishy with it 07:34:18 ltbarcly: http://pastebin.com/FzBCwZtZ 07:34:19 zmyrgel: i had that problem yesterday, it went away when i updated quicklisp and removed all old cffi copies. 07:34:38 zmyrgel: I'm not a CFFI expert, but I would guess it can't find the .so file 07:34:50 zmyrgel: that was on freebsd. i see you're on openbsd, so it is probably the same issue. 07:35:13 H4ns: ok, gotta test that 07:36:53 anyway, I guess I don't want to debate it all day, but I would be very suspicious of any system that stored code in db as data 07:38:01 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:16 otoh, using a database as a VCS can be really cool, http://www.fossil-scm.org 07:38:20 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:39:28 H4ns: updated quicklisp and dists but still got the error 07:39:50 zmyrgel: did you restart your lisp, too? 07:39:55 yes 07:40:56 zmyrgel: 32/64 bit problem? other than that, no idea, sorry 07:41:15 H4ns: what do you mean by that? 07:41:49 zmyrgel: maybe you're running a 32 bit lisp and try to load a 64 bit shared lib 07:42:01 zmyrgel: but i don't know if that even is a possibility in your setup 07:42:40 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:43:24 zmyrgel: are you sure you have those files in your library load path? 07:43:31 H4ns: *features* list x86-64 so I'd guess its 64-bit binary and running amd64 port of OpenBSD 07:43:48 ltbarcly: I have /usr/lib/libssl.so.17.1 07:44:16 did you recently do anything that could have caused it to be modified or upgraded? 07:44:24 for either lisp or the .so? 07:44:41 well, first I should ask, have you rebooted 3 times? 07:44:57 jk, but have you restarted the lisp process from scratch? 07:45:12 nope, running fresh install of 5.1 with sbcl installed from packages 07:45:20 oh, so this never worked on this system? 07:45:41 not really 07:45:53 same thing on my laptop running openbsd-current 07:45:58 same issue you mean? 07:46:05 yes 07:46:21 what's the value of *foreign-library-directories* 07:46:22 H4ns: this happened to me too, I had to set an environment variable in emacs to get it to work.. 07:46:55 ltbarcly: cffi:*foreign-library-directories* => nil 07:47:32 that's what's standard I *think* 07:47:41 Since it's not normally using that 07:47:59 What implementation are you using? SBCL? 07:48:13 zmyrgel: that's why 07:48:17 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.239] has joined #lisp 07:48:18 http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/html_node/load_002dforeign_002dlibrary.html 07:48:23 If a string or pathname, passed as a namestring directly to the implementation's foreign library loader. If that fails, search the directories in *foreign-library-directories* with cl:probe-file; if found, the absolute path is passed to the implementation's loader. 07:48:41 ltbarcly: It's not normally used 07:48:57 yea, but at least try it with the path there or using an absolute path 07:48:58 the entry for that variable begins with: «You should not have to use this variable.» 07:49:11 yea yea, but it will narrow it dow 07:49:26 if it fails with an absolute path, it's a problem with loading the file 07:49:40 if it succeeds, it's a problem with the systems foreign library loader not finding the file 07:49:52 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:49:57 seems to be something in loading the file 07:50:01 I get lines: sbcl:/usr/lib/libssl.so.17.1: undefined symbol 'EVP_DecryptFinal' 07:50:37 woot 07:50:40 I'm guessing the FFI definitions (this is purely a guess, someone correct me) aren't compatible with that version of the .so, or the .so wasn't compiled with all the options 07:50:48 well, multiple lines pointing undefined symbols and then the LOAD-FOREIGN-LIBRARY-ERROR 07:51:14 Where is the .so file located? 07:51:22 /usr/lib 07:51:25 And do you use emacs? 07:51:28 oh 07:51:35 by far the best way to debug anything is to build a mental model of all the steps that should be happening, and then do a binary search to find the first step that failed :) 07:51:35 Then it should actually be found :-/ 07:52:04 solve all issues in O(log(n)) 07:52:28 I had to do (setenv "LD_LIBRARY_PATH" "/usr/local/lib/myso") to find it, but that's ofc in local lib, not the global lib 07:52:54 add^_: yea, /usr/local often isn't in the default search path 07:53:01 can't really think of simpler test case as the one I posted earlier 07:53:33 And emacs doesn't use the bash set LD_LIBRARY_PATH so.. 07:53:52 Is there ldd ld and nm on openbsd? 07:53:54 :-/ 07:54:03 I wouldn't know. 07:54:07 zmyrgel: just out of curiosity, can you search your system and see how many different files match 'libssl.so*' 07:54:26 ah, good idea 07:54:29 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:54:29 locate libssl.so 07:55:04 add^_: but emacs isn't loading the file is it? 07:55:07 ltbarcly: it just returns /usr/local/libssl.so.17.1 07:55:24 add^_: iirc if you want emacs to use LD_LIBRARY_PATH, assuming you use it with X, you need to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH in your .xinitrc or .xsession 07:55:25 ltbarcly: what file? 07:55:42 hm 07:55:46 emacs isn't involved in this at all unless you just want the LD_LIBRARY_PATH to be inherited by the CL process emacs spawns 07:56:00 add^_: yes, theres ldd, ld and nm commands 07:56:28 add^_: if it's a newly installed system, the packagemanager would have already done the ldd stuff, although it's worth double checking 07:56:31 well, I don't really need my whole LD_LIBRARY_PATH in emacs anyway. But good to know. I have it set in some subfiles to .profile 07:56:55 oh, you know what, here is another guess, that .so file is trying to load some other .so file, which isn't found due to the same path issue 07:56:59 ltbarcly: and libssl is part of base install 07:57:26 zmyrgel: yea, but even so it would have had to refresh the ld cache to know where everything is 07:57:33 zmyrgel: since you got that error I'm guessing somethings up with your .so file, but I could be wrong.. 07:57:56 zmyrgel: do you have curl installed? 07:58:07 Even I get those kinds of messages so.. It's probably a bad guess. 07:58:40 try doing 'curl https://www.google.com' 07:58:44 if it works, it's not libssl 07:58:45 ltbarcly: yes, I have curl 07:59:07 wait, no, that was undefined symbols, I get undefined reference.. 07:59:23 ltbarcly: i get 302 from google, apparently attempts to redirect me 07:59:28 but ssl seems to work 07:59:29 you didn't put the www 07:59:54 I did, www.google.com -> www.google.fi redirection 07:59:57 oh 07:59:59 gotcha 08:00:18 ok, I'm probably the worst person to help here because I know jack about CFFI 08:00:23 but here's another thing to try 08:00:28 From finland? 08:00:36 :-) 08:00:36 add^_: yes 08:00:37 run sbcl without using swank or whatever 08:00:39 ah 08:00:40 just run sbcl on the command line 08:00:44 ok :-) 08:00:49 ltbarcly: already running test with it 08:00:52 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:00:53 I was guessing based on the redirection :-) 08:01:22 -!- springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:02:09 Hm 08:02:14 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 08:02:43 Oh wait 08:03:05 start sbcl, and on prompt put: (load-shared-object "libssl.so.17.1") 08:03:07 Didn't you say it was in /usr/lib? But it only found it in /usr/local/lib? 08:03:45 add^_: hey, you're right 08:04:28 sorry, my typo :) it found it in /usr/lib ... just used to type /usr/local 08:04:46 aw 08:04:56 Otherwise that could have been it :-P 08:05:17 it would be awesome to have console sharing for stuff like this 08:05:25 Yeah 08:05:30 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip72-194-213-200.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:05:32 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-209-199.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:05:38 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:05:40 Like screen but... not. 08:05:41 zmyrgel: any luck running (load-shared-object "libssl.so.17.1") on a fresh SBCL repl? 08:05:52 or tmux in zmyrgel's case 08:06:01 ltbarcly: http://pastebin.com/vhk2jyPr 08:06:08 pretty much same problem 08:06:13 Or /usr/lib/lib.so.17.1 08:06:21 holy crap 08:06:23 Try hardcoding in the path 08:06:33 same thing 08:06:44 Oh 08:06:48 you must be having some kind of major version imcompatibility or something 08:06:48 So it does find it 08:06:56 :-/ 08:06:57 how was sbcl built? 08:07:08 ltbarcly: beats me, installed from packages 08:07:12 *add^_* should have read that first paste 08:07:16 sbcl from ports 08:07:19 what version is sbcl? 08:07:19 lol 08:07:29 1.0.58 08:07:32 oh 08:07:36 good 08:07:38 -!- chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:07:38 and *features* ? 08:07:48 bitonic [~user@93-40-97-100.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:07:56 the fact you can't load this with sbcl ffi is telling 08:08:27 ltbarcly: hold, lemme check something 08:08:29 what version of ssl is that anyway? 08:09:12 sorry, version 1.0.54 08:09:27 oh 08:09:40 ah 08:09:49 thought I'd installed package from current version to stable system but doesn't seem to be the case 08:09:49 Did that have problems with the ffi? 08:10:08 my machine apparently has 14 copies of libssl.so, including 4 completely different builds of 0.9.8 08:10:14 my laptop has newer openbsd with 1.0.58 and has the same problem loading ssl 08:10:31 oh 08:10:32 zmyrgel: built with different versions of gcc or something 08:10:33 hm 08:11:06 how does bsd version on current? is it like debian unstable? 08:11:33 ltbarcly: something like that, latest development, system might break etc 08:11:42 yea, you are probably experiencing that :) 08:12:05 ltbarcly: but zmyrgel had a different openbsd system with the same problem 08:12:14 ltbarcly: building with different gcc isn't really a good option, I'd stick with base systems compiler and patch things to work with it 08:12:25 zmyrgel: that's not what i meant 08:12:45 I'm testing this on my server which is running OpenBSD 5.1-stable 08:12:46 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:13:02 ok, so on the server all the packages are from stable? 08:13:09 yes 08:13:28 zmyrgel: so you have not a snapshot 08:13:43 pnpu1f: not on my server, laptop uses snapshot 08:13:55 https://github.com/samth/test-bugs/issues/155 08:13:59 looks familiar 08:14:09 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:14:21 ah 08:14:25 yeah 08:15:31 searching for that first missing symbol, all the chatter is openbsd 08:16:39 I can't really help further, but one way to fix this specific issue would be to install Linux :P 08:17:11 That would be too much work for very little pay 08:17:16 eh 08:17:21 s/too/very 08:17:25 try to ask on #openbsd 08:17:45 yea, or #c or something, this is all linking and .so world problems 08:18:10 eheheh 08:18:11 Sorry we couldn't help very much zmyrgel :-/ 08:18:19 Or at least I couldn't 08:18:24 I shouldn't talk for others 08:18:28 zmyrgel: do you have python installed? 08:18:55 >>> import ctypes 08:18:55 >>> libssl = ctypes.cdll.LoadLibrary('libssl.so') 08:19:05 obviously replace with the right .so file 08:19:39 now if it works in python, then I would guess it's an incompatability with your SBCL build and the libssl build 08:20:01 maybe they were built with different versions of libc or gcc or who knows 08:20:17 ltbarcly: gives same undefined symbols 08:20:34 hmm, if python can't load it then there is a problem 08:20:46 did little google digging and seems that openbsd separates ssl to crypto and libssl libraries 08:20:56 and libssl depends on the cryptop 08:21:00 aha 08:21:01 *crypto 08:21:03 so it can't find that .so 08:21:09 aha 08:21:16 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:21:17 so it should load that first? 08:21:21 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 08:21:23 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:21:29 no, it should transitively load it if it can find it 08:21:35 Can you find the .so? 08:21:54 The crypto one that is 08:22:02 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 08:22:08 /usr/lib/libcrypto.so.20.1 08:22:18 hum 08:22:20 ok, try rebuilding your ldconfig 08:22:38 on linux you can just do 'sudo ldconfig', who knows what it is on bsd 08:22:42 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-193-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:22:45 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:22:48 It should be the same 08:22:58 ok, do that 08:23:05 ok, ran it 08:23:11 ok, try the python one again 08:23:20 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-193-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:23:50 apparently 'sudo ldconfig' wasn't a BSD way... 08:24:02 it's in sbin 08:24:05 probably 08:24:08 python => can't load library 'libpython2.7.so.0.0' 08:24:19 holy shit 08:24:44 cat /etc/ld.so.conf 08:24:46 what's in there 08:25:10 Uh 08:25:12 and if it just points to the .d directory, ' cat /etc/ld.so.conf.d/*' 08:25:18 or the bsd equivelent 08:25:20 I hope we haven't broken your system :-/ 08:25:38 add^_: if running ldconfig caused harm, it was already broken 08:26:13 True 08:26:31 there's no /etc/ld.so.conf on BSD 08:26:43 And apparently ldconfig should work on openbsd 08:26:48 there's some equivlent 08:26:51 got python running with "sudo ldconfig /usr/lib /usr/local/lib /usr/X11R6/lib" 08:27:44 ok, try doing the ctypes thing with python then 08:27:45 python still gives the undefined symbols when loading libssl, loading libcrypto works 08:27:57 /etc/rc.conf should have something 08:28:03 do you have matching verisons of libcrypto and libssl? 08:28:36 nope, libcrypto.so.20.1 and libssl.so.17.1 08:29:10 Hm 08:29:44 http://readlist.com/lists/openbsd.org/misc/10/52723.html 08:30:16 :-/ 08:30:21 oh, so ldconfig -R 08:30:34 No, that's what it did 08:30:43 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:30:46 oh 08:30:47 No 08:30:48 Sorry 08:30:50 xD 08:31:05 Do as ltbarcly says :-) 08:31:23 mmm: ask on #openbsd ! 08:31:47 yea, I'll have to throw in the towel, this is an openbsd problem 08:32:03 what's wrong now? 08:32:08 lol 08:32:38 shared library versioning problem on openbsd? 08:32:44 looks like it 08:32:48 well at least run sudo ldconfig -R to get it working as before again 08:33:15 the command above should have also done pretty much the same, its run from /etc/rc 08:33:17 if you're running ldconfig by hand then you're almost certainly doing something wrong 08:33:17 Then go ask in #openbsd :-/ 08:33:22 ltbarcly: openbsd users are familiar with their system. 08:33:31 joshe: true :) 08:33:42 do you not think so? 08:33:47 do you have an out of sync base and packages snapshot or something? 08:33:54 pnpu1f: they should be 08:34:26 joshe: nope, using 5.1 08:34:35 add^_: everything should be 08:34:48 and what exactly is it that you're trying to do? 08:34:55 :-) 08:34:55 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:34:56 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:35:00 (-: 08:35:17 ultimately, install hunchentoot but cl+ssl fails to load as it can't load libssl library 08:35:26 pnpu1f: I'm not trying to start an argument or be pedantic, but no, there are beginners, not everyone has dealt with .so issues, etc etc 08:36:06 Well, there should be gurus in #openbsd , more than here at least 08:36:14 openbsd gurus that is 08:36:17 iirc some of the "portable" shared library ffi packages have issues on openbsd 08:36:22 ask on slackware then ^^ 08:36:25 lol 08:36:37 lol 08:37:05 I remember having to patch some of them to remove linux assumptions, and it's quite possible my patches never made it off my machine 08:37:18 also, good luck running hunchentoot without threads 08:37:30 unless you're using ecl, I suppose 08:37:49 next stop, bothering nikodemus until he gets stable threads on openbsd :) 08:37:59 lol 08:38:08 I'm the one you should be bothering 08:38:22 but you won't have much luck with me either 08:39:16 - 08:39:16 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:39:25 joshe: it fails outside of sbcl also 08:39:48 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:05 joshe: whats holding back threads on openbsd? 08:40:06 you didn't do something funny like install older or newer packages? 08:40:37 next release enables rthreads so sbcl supporting threads would be nice addition 08:41:09 zmyrgel: when I had time and energy to delve deep into threading, openbsd didn't have a pthreads library which could support sbcl without significant reengineering 08:41:11 joshe: nope, packages and base are in sync 08:41:13 zmyrgel: what is the newest version of libssl and libcrypto in ports? 08:41:32 ltbarcly: those libraries are in base 08:41:35 ltbarcly: don't know if there are any, libssl are in base 08:42:05 so it should be very hard to get one to be incompatible with the other 08:42:23 p5-Crypt-OpenSSL-* ? 08:42:29 that's perl 08:42:31 zmyrgel: and now that rthreads are stable I haven't had time or motivation to look into why sbcl doesn't just work when I enable threads 08:42:51 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:42:54 or is it? I don't know haha 08:43:14 py-openssl-*.**.tgz ? 08:43:34 joshe: yeah, I have tried to compile sbcl with --fancy but most likely even is forced shutdown due to overheating CPU :) 08:43:39 damn thinkpad 08:43:44 you also see a non-lisp program which is getting dynamic linker errors? 08:43:55 tested with python 08:44:10 zmyrgel: try doing 'import ssl' on the python repl, just for another data point 08:44:25 you'd have to patch sbcl to try, I think the patch is trivial on amd64 but still needed 08:44:30 on my machine (linux), that causes it to load both libssl and libcrypto 08:44:37 ltbarcly: import ssl followed by the LoadLibrary works 08:45:04 can you run lsof | grep python to see what .so files it has loaded? 08:45:20 openbsd doesn't have lsof 08:45:28 honestly 08:45:52 ldd or possibly procmap are much better for that anyway 08:46:35 zmyrgel: does something like /usr/sbin/openssl find the library all right? 08:47:01 -!- cracauer [cracauer@nat/google/x-zmxksrqvzuejmjbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:47:01 cracauer [cracauer@nat/google/session] has joined #lisp 08:47:02 -!- cracauer [cracauer@nat/google/session] has quit [Changing host] 08:47:02 cracauer [cracauer@nat/google/x-qmvdpucxapklstws] has joined #lisp 08:47:16 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:47:37 whatever floats your boat, the question is why does it work now 08:48:16 joshe: no problems with openssl 08:49:03 tried with curl https://www.google.com before and it worked so the I'd say the basics are alright 08:49:10 yea 08:50:01 zmyrgel: ok, my last crack at it 08:50:07 try loading libcrypto first, then libssl 08:50:17 ltbarcly: just tested it, seems to work 08:50:19 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-23-31.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:50:25 funky 08:50:34 yes, they need to be loaded in that order 08:50:46 iirc 08:51:03 well maybe I live in a wonderland of linux magic, but I can just load libssl and it loads libcrypto behind the scenes 08:51:19 am0c [~am0c@175.252.225.222] has joined #lisp 08:52:16 afaik, the magic happens at a lower level there 08:52:59 yeah, adding libcrypto loading to cl+ssl's reload.lisp makes it load just fine 08:54:25 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 08:54:25 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 08:54:25 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 08:54:26 then just to write patch for cl+ssl to fix it 08:54:27 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@108-222-196-145.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:54:34 I believe the library itself has the dependency information recorded, but the tool isn't smart enough to read it 08:54:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:55:34 AND you don't have readline. debate over 08:55:39 :) 08:55:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:56:06 hm? 08:56:23 readline is also in the base system 08:56:44 although just for some gnu tool like gdb 08:56:57 yea, I was just joking 09:00:10 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 09:00:19 jasom [~aidenn@ip184-187-188-151.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:03:44 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-62-145.w90-45.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:04:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:05:31 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.8.170.14] has joined #lisp 09:05:57 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:07:56 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 09:07:58 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-220-149.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:09:29 next stop would be getting cl-test-grid working on openbsd 09:09:51 raise little openbsd awareness in lisp community :) 09:10:43 nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:12:32 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:12:38 is that like cancer awareness? :) scnr 09:12:41 emma_anne [~emma_anne@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:24 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.8.170.14] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 09:15:45 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:16:44 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@105.252.10.138] has joined #lisp 09:18:13 The_Sorceror [~Sorceror@42.106.213.94] has joined #lisp 09:18:44 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:18:46 please don't smoke! :) 09:18:52 something like that 09:19:12 i'm _really_ sorry! 09:20:02 wait, are you apologizing to openbsd users or people with cancer 09:20:35 i'm apologizing to anyone who might have been offended by my joke. 09:21:02 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@105.252.10.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:23:27 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:23:49 so, packages, I am getting an AST with a bunch of symbols like xxx.ast::something, is there some package magic I can do so that (eql 'xxx.ast::something 'something) 09:24:31 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:25:35 you need to be in the :xxx.ast package for that to work. 09:25:48 by the way of binding *package* at read time for the comparison form. 09:26:14 _or_ you can use string-equal instead of eql 09:27:55 laptop running bit sluggish when doing sbcl's concurrency tests 09:28:25 load average: 82 is bit much for a laptop :) 09:28:44 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 09:30:44 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:38 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 09:31:50 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:32:56 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:34:32 -!- nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:34:46 -!- emma_anne [~emma_anne@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Loqui] 09:37:13 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.59.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:39:36 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:40:17 is remove-method destructive ? 09:40:18 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:40:43 when i use it and call the defun in which it occurs a second time i get an error ! 09:40:48 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:10 it may modify a generic function object.. so yes, it is destructive 09:42:57 how can i temporarily remove them, calling the defun and then restore them ? 09:44:15 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:44:46 there's no easy way.. you need to get/remove/add.. but at this point you may want to consider things like contextl and such 09:45:13 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:45:21 ah 09:46:17 -!- pnpu1f [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 09:46:19 saschakb__ [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 09:47:30 -!- saschakb_ [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:48:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:49:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:50:52 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:52:52 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 09:53:41 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:55:35 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:57:05 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 09:57:05 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 10:00:22 ^pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 10:01:14 arrk13 [~arrakis24@dslb-188-109-148-125.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:00 -!- arrk13 [~arrakis24@dslb-188-109-148-125.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 10:02:53 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:04:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:04:51 -!- KenLZhang [~quassel@202.103.17.16] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:05:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:06:57 wbooze: obviously! 10:07:10 And it wouldn't be defun, but defmethod. 10:07:45 pjb: what do you mean ? 10:08:26 same as adeht, but twenty minutes late. :-( 10:11:23 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:11:43 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl9-57-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:12:37 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:12:51 pjb: yes i tried it like that http://paste.lisp.org/display/132156 10:13:45 oh get 10:13:49 whatis get ? 10:14:25 -!- lcc [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:14:35 wbooze: it just feels wrong to define and remove and redefine methods. 10:14:42 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 10:14:43 wbooze: a better solution would be to use a hook. 10:14:57 wbooze: it might also be significantly slower than what you'd like to see 10:15:01 A variable or a slot of the object, containing a list of functions that you call in the around method. 10:15:27 If a special varible, it's easy to bind it temporarly. 10:15:40 well, yes i couldn't wrap my head around all at once.....i'm still learining..... 10:16:31 oh, symbol-function, i had to name it ? 10:16:37 re-adding..... 10:17:02 emacs uses hooks a lot with great success. 10:17:42 wbooze: also, consider threaded code. remove-method removes the method for all threads. 10:18:58 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:20:02 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl9-57-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 10:20:07 -!- The_Sorceror [~Sorceror@42.106.213.94] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:23:10 -!- ^pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 10:24:06 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:24:31 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 10:25:16 saschakb_ [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 10:27:09 -!- saschakb__ [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:28:13 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:31:49 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-26-215.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:32:16 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:32:40 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:33:38 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Quit: ] 10:34:17 Melu [75cfa7d5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.207.167.213] has joined #lisp 10:36:48 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:29 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl9-57-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:39:24 -!- saschakb_ [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39:38 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:39:42 ^pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 10:41:12 chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has joined #lisp 10:41:21 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:44:44 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:45:39 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl9-57-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 10:48:08 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:48:37 I have an array A. I made this array A by concatenating an integer with other array B. Now when I change the array B,A gets changed. How can I avoid it? 10:48:55 how do you "concatenate" an array? 10:49:20 are you maybe talking about lists? then copy-list might be what you want. 10:49:26 How do you change the array? 10:49:27 (setf a (cons 0 b)) 10:49:28 you could also not change the array. 10:49:33 This is no array. 10:49:52 So, what do you want to do? 10:50:04 Try: (type-of a) 10:50:05 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:50:12 Well, Than how can I avoid it in the case of lists 10:50:14 ? 10:50:20 Melu: copy-list 10:50:24 Compare with (type-of (vector 1 2 3)) and with (type-of #2a((1 2) (3 4))) 10:50:37 Melu: but as i said, it may be better to not change the list in the first place 10:50:58 If you used concatenate instead of cons it would be automatic: 10:51:18 (concatenate 'list #| <<-- note, LIST, not VECTOR! |# '(0) b) 10:51:41 But of course, if you're thinking about vectors, you should probably use vectors instead of lists. 10:57:17 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:58:45 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:00:39 ikki [~ikki@189.247.242.218] has joined #lisp 11:04:44 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:06:12 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:07:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:09:18 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@181.164.175.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:11:10 nipra [~Adium@122.161.243.155] has joined #lisp 11:12:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:15:27 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:16:46 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-222-244-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 11:19:19 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:19:30 sb-concurrency tests consistently fail for me on osx 10.8.2. any thoughts? 11:21:54 and i started recompiling sbcl because i saw strange behavior (crashes) with my installed sbcl, like hangs or bpt traps 11:22:29 It's probably more the fault of MacOSX Mountain Lion. 11:22:43 If you recompile sbcl, try the svn head. 11:22:57 i did just that. 11:24:18 Process inferior-lisp trace/BPT trap: 5 11:24:21 hmpf 11:24:31 Probably should ask on #sbcl. 11:24:59 will do, thanks 11:25:36 if someone wants to have my application.lisp for beirc it's on bitbucket now 11:25:54 -!- EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:25:58 there was no com-identify hook 11:26:03 when connecting 11:26:12 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:26:24 and no com-join hook for the join-alist 11:29:22 EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 11:30:45 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:37:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:39:05 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.46.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:43:14 superflit_ [~superflit@75-166-66-146.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:43 -!- superflit [~superflit@75-171-202-122.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:44:43 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 11:46:23 -!- am0c [~am0c@175.252.225.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:49:09 nipra1 [~Adium@122.161.182.209] has joined #lisp 11:49:26 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:49:34 -!- nipra1 [~Adium@122.161.182.209] has quit [Client Quit] 11:50:08 -!- nipra [~Adium@122.161.243.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:50:35 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:51:15 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 11:57:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:57:47 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 11:59:11 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:59:19 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.230.55] has joined #lisp 12:00:17 Hello 12:01:10 mrxy [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 12:01:58 Has anyone used the pl-2303 serial to usb on osx and managed to successfully write something to a serial device from common lisp? 12:05:52 Doesn't MacOSX create a /dev/ttySomething device for usb serials? 12:05:59 indeed 12:06:08 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:06:12 Then it'd be a simple matter of opening that device with OPEN or WITH-OPEN-FILE. 12:07:16 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 12:07:24 pjb: https://gist.github.com/3803817 12:07:50 :if-exists :append 12:08:08 ah! 12:08:10 makes sense 12:08:35 I'm trying to talk to a Philips CMS Patient Monitoring System 12:08:45 Cool. 12:09:20 Just the bare minimum to start with. I'm going to send a disconnect command to check if I can get a response 12:09:20 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.60.100] has joined #lisp 12:09:44 All seemed to went well but I just wouldn't get any response 12:09:51 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl9-57-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 12:10:04 Kenjin: is there a tool to set the serial parameters? Or are they encoded in the device name? 12:10:17 Usually it's done with a ioctl on the file descriptor. 12:10:37 Some implementations let you find the file descriptor from the STREAM object returned by OPEN, and you can use CFFI to call ioctl. 12:10:40 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:10:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:11:14 Perhaps for more portable code, you should use iolib. 12:11:19 http://common-lisp.net/project/iolib/ 12:11:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:11:35 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.60.100] has quit [Client Quit] 12:12:12 ah, no, I'm confusing it with something else, iolib is only for network so far. 12:12:30 pjb: yeah, I believe so 12:13:02 there was some command to set the device correctly for reading, let me find it. Was in a blog post about arduino experiments 12:13:17 stty -F /dev/ttyUSB0 9600 raw -parenb -parodd cs8 -hupcl -cstopb clocal 12:13:57 a guy wrote an iolib extension to deal with serial ports 12:14:08 Poster mentioned it was only able to write to the device after issuing the command 12:14:09 it's somewhere on gitorious 12:14:56 Yes, you can also use stty. 12:17:52 to check for incoming data I would try screen /dev/cu.PL2303-0000101D 9600 12:18:03 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:18:08 Bacteria_ [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:18:36 -!- [SLB]` is now known as ]SLB[ 12:18:36 -!- ]SLB[ is now known as [SLB] 12:18:38 -!- [SLB] is now known as ]SLB[ 12:18:39 -!- ]SLB[ is now known as [SLB] 12:19:22 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:19:54 <^pnpuff> why Limp it's so outdated? 12:20:26 I'm using VirtualSerialPortApp for testing while I don't have access to the Philips machine and seems to work 12:20:45 ^pnpuff: because the majority of lisp programmers use emacs, not vim. 12:21:07 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:21:08 -!- Bacteria_ is now known as Bacteria 12:21:22 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:21:46 <^pnpuff> pjb: but it's a matter of habits. 12:22:25 Then update Limp yourself! You're the best placed, being a vim user, to do it. We don't know anything about vim. I left it and switched to emacs when it was still vi! 12:23:38 slimv is slime port for vim 12:23:49 not sure how well it works but it's being actively developed 12:25:36 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:26:37 <^pnpuff> pjb: I'm not only a vim user, but I also like a bit vim. 12:26:49 this just crossed my twitter stream: http://lisp.hyperprostor.unas.cz/cl-2dsyntax/ I will need a very long bath 12:27:01 As I said, you're the rare pearl, and the most able to update Limp. 12:27:57 <^pnpuff> ? 12:28:07 Read above. 12:28:23 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:28:24 ^pnpuff: what pjb means is that you are the only one who cares 12:28:38 and the only one having the competence to do it. 12:28:47 We don't know anything about vim: we only know emacs! 12:29:12 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl9-57-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 12:29:25 i think slimv author is in this channel so someone cares :) 12:30:20 nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34:05 it is not on installous and im not sure where else to look 12:34:21 wrong channel :) 12:34:46 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:36:42 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl9-57-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 12:39:37 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 12:40:02 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:40:21 -!- nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:40:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.242.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:43:16 nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:14 emma_anne [~emma_anne@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:43 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl9-57-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 12:47:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:48:21 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 12:48:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:51:49 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl9-57-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 12:51:52 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 12:53:52 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl9-57-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 12:54:14 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-193-141.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 12:54:20 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:55:04 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:57:58 cryptic_ [~cryptic@pool-96-246-91-191.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:50 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:00:00 -!- nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:00:13 -!- emma_anne [~emma_anne@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Loqui] 13:01:40 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 13:01:49 -!- cryptic [~cryptic@pool-96-246-91-191.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:06:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:11:22 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:11:27 judging from this page http://cl-test-grid.appspot.com/blob?key=376533 metabang expects &rest to be possible before &optional 13:11:45 that violates the standard, but since Xach tests on SBCL, I suppose that allows it. 13:11:52 on ABCL I raise an error there. 13:12:01 should I change that? 13:12:54 <|3b|> sbcl doesn't like it here 13:13:30 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl9-57-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 13:16:54 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl9-57-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 13:16:55 The_Sorc1ror [~Sorceror@42.109.201.202] has joined #lisp 13:19:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:19:10 -!- bitonic [~user@93-40-97-100.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:00 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:20:49 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:24 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-193-141.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:22:32 (read-line) takes the value "recursive-p" at the end...what is that? 13:22:52 that is for p-list? 13:22:55 It's to deal correctly with #= ## when you call read-line from a reader macro. 13:23:21 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-193-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:23:27 So don't give it, or give nil when you call it from a normal program. Give T when you call it from a reader macro. 13:23:40 Other read functions have this parameter too. 13:24:06 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-193-141.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:24:33 oh! i see. thanks pjb 13:25:09 ehu: is that perhaps conditional code? sbcl barfs on a similar example 13:25:19 i wish cl-test-grid had xref links into the code in question 13:25:58 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl9-57-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 13:26:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:27:43 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl9-57-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 13:29:11 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@95.161.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:29:58 bitonic [~user@93-40-97-100.ip38.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:31:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:37:47 Kvaks [~quassel@95.161.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 13:38:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:38:49 *Xach* has so many wishes 13:40:34 <^pnpuff> that's good! :) 13:42:48 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:44:41 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 13:47:22 kirin` [telex@anapnea.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:13 Xach: could be I didn't look the code itself, but was wondering if abcl had grown stricter than SBCL - which would not be good. 13:48:21 but being as strict is good enough. 13:48:30 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:54 ehu: (ql:quickload "cl-graph" :verbose t) will probably make it easier to find the form in question 13:49:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:51:34 I'll have a look. thanks for the :verbose T pointer; that'll help. 13:52:04 *The_Sorc1ror* is new to lisp, and he has started with Practical Common Lisp. After reading 3rd chapter "A Simple Database", he is feeling good. Xach: that book is really dead sexy :) 13:52:12 I sure hope authors play well with these findings. Turns out since we have stricter lambda list checking, fewer systems actually load. 13:52:35 ehu: i don't think ABCL does, though. 13:52:46 ehu: i think sbcl is equally strict and something else is in play. 13:52:56 *Xach* can't wait to find out 13:53:07 this page suggests we do: 13:53:08 http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-test-grid/abcl.html 13:53:37 but we also fixed anaphora, which was a major blocker for many systems. 13:53:43 don't mix those two effects! 13:54:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:54:26 anyway, &rest &optional was parsed, but not really supported in that the &optionals did not get bound in the &rest param as you might have expected from the order. 13:55:06 but SBCL does not support that either 13:56:48 -!- chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:58:04 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:59:45 <|3b|> as far as i can tell the code producing that error has &optional before &rest 14:00:52 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:02:36 <|3b|> seems to get switched between system::process-toplevel-defmethod/defgeneric and system::process-top-level-form (progn (mop::ensure-method ... 14:02:38 -!- The_Sorc1ror [~Sorceror@42.109.201.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:37 ok. well, I'll load the code to find out where the issue is and mail the author(s) about it. 14:03:39 thanks! 14:03:52 <|3b|> looks like might be something wrong with defmethod macro 14:04:10 -!- Melu [75cfa7d5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.207.167.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:04:30 |3b|: you mean in abcl specifically? 14:04:34 <|3b|> right 14:05:36 Ah! I could look at that later tonight. 14:05:49 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:05:50 |3b|: do you have a minimal reproduction case? 14:06:29 <|3b|> looks like extract-lambda-list reassembles it in the wrong order (&rest &key &allow-other-keys &optional &aux) then later code complains about that 14:06:55 ouch. 14:07:19 ok. looking at that later, unless you're ready to create a patch already. (I'm about to head out for now) 14:07:19 also doesn't fail in abcl 1.0.0 14:07:33 maybe that will narrow the search... 14:07:34 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: catmtking] 14:07:36 <|3b|> (defmethod foo (a &optional b &rest c)) -> &OPTIONAL not allowed after &REST in lambda-list (A &REST C 14:07:38 <|3b|> &OPTIONAL B) 14:08:05 improving libraries AND CLs one bug at a time! 14:08:31 -!- ^pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 14:09:34 <|3b|> looks like extract-lambda-list has worked that way for a while, so possibly it was a new check that didn't take into account the lambda list had already been parsed? 14:10:18 the check is new. 14:10:24 ^pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:11:02 No, parse-lambda-list has always signaled an error: cl-user> (com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp-sexp.source-form:parse-lambda-list '(&rest r &optional o) :ordinary) > Debug: Syntax error in ordinary-lambda-list at: #1=(&optional o) in (&rest r . #1#) 14:11:02 14:11:15 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:27 com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp-sexp.source-form:parse-lambda-list I mean of course. 14:11:37 <|3b|> pjb: ? 14:11:42 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 14:11:57 |3b|: never mind, just promoting GPL software as the superior quality software. 14:12:14 <|3b|> pjb: i'm sure &OPTIONAL not allowed after &REST in lambda-list (A &REST C 14:12:17 <|3b|> &OPTIONAL B) 14:12:20 s/quality/lockin/ 14:12:21 <|3b|> oops, bad paset 14:12:34 Yes, it's not allowed. 14:12:40 There's no doubt about that. 14:12:41 <|3b|> i'm sure com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp-sexp.source-form:parse-lambda-list is a very nice CL->java bytecode compiler 14:12:48 <|3b|> we'll all switch to that from abcl 14:12:57 :-) 14:13:03 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:13:10 ok. thanks! I'll check it later! 14:14:24 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:15:56 -!- cryptic_ is now known as cryptic 14:17:26 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:17:44 <^pnpuff> please: paste the code non in the channel! -thanks a lot- 14:18:06 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 14:18:31 <^pnpuff> :s/non/not/ 14:21:30 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:25:55 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:27:49 atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:41 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 14:32:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:35:22 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:37:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined 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lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:22:26 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23:34 |3b|: hi. back. confirmed that changing the &OPTIONAL to the correct position in lambda list, the error disappears. 20:24:20 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@208.185.18.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:24:29 <|3b|> ehu: you mean reordering what extract-lambda-list returns? 20:24:36 yes. 20:24:42 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.19.150] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:24:44 that's the solution to fixing the compilation error. 20:24:57 *|3b|* suspects that makes the test not work at all 20:25:25 makes which test not work? 20:25:59 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.240.109.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:26:23 <|3b|> i suspect it won't catch (defmethod foo (a &rest b &optional c)) now 20:27:20 <|3b|> unless you mean you rebuilt the lambda list in the order of the original form, as opposed to the order specified by CLHS 20:27:39 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.247] has joined #lisp 20:28:08 hmm. you're correct. that doesn't work. 20:28:13 Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.240.109.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 20:28:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:28:15 Too hasty to commit. 20:28:33 -!- BountyX [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:39 <|3b|> looked like you need to either preserve the original order, or move the check earlier 20:29:02 *|3b|* isn't sure how hard either of those would be though 20:31:22 uselpa [~uselpa@83.99.17.53] has joined #lisp 20:31:58 I guess I need to replace analyze-lambda-list by a call to parse-lambda-list 20:32:08 (the latter being in the JVM package) 20:32:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:37:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:38:31 |3b|: I think I have the right checks built into analyze-lambda-list now. 20:38:36 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:40:33 -!- _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:40:36 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:47:38 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:48:34 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@24.68.50.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:38 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:53:16 dnolen [~user@108.54.21.53] has joined #lisp 20:57:04 |3b|: now the check works correctly. 20:57:46 -!- uselpa [~uselpa@83.99.17.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:52 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:00:18 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:04:32 woo 21:06:46 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:07:00 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:08:46 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:11:06 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:08 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:11:53 Xach: I think most of the additional failures in http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-test-grid/abcl.html will disappear with this change. 21:12:12 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 21:13:02 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:13:23 ehu: woo 21:14:39 which incidently turned up some lambda list keyword ordering problems in our own CLOS.LISP file :-) 21:15:32 so much fixing! 21:16:26 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:18:10 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:21:04 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:22:05 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:28:38 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:29:47 getting better and better. 21:30:44 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.10.19.190] has joined #lisp 21:31:07 -!- dnolen [~user@108.54.21.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:18 i'm so pleased that quicklisp has played a role 21:32:52 oh. come on. don't be that modest! you should know what role quicklisp plays in the lisp community! 21:33:02 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:33:06 should know by now, I mean. 21:33:18 yeah, but! this is a side effect that i thought might happen but wasn't sure would 21:33:40 and each time something gets fixed it makes me happy 21:34:20 it's happening everywhere now. I love how cl-test-grid got started by Anton as a spin off from Quicklisp, indeed. That is: it happened without you having to code it. 21:34:24 dnolen [~user@108.54.21.53] has joined #lisp 21:34:32 typeclassy [~user@ool-ae2ceba4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:22 Me too. I think the fact that we can now look at the download stats and the testrun stats really helps to test the hypothesis that an implementation is ready for real world use. 21:35:38 I had a very hard time assessing that before Quicklisp and cl-test-grid. 21:35:56 s/before/pre/ 21:37:43 so, what's your next step on the front of quicklisp? 21:40:05 orangepnut [~cody@fl-184-4-188-163.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:06 -!- orangepnut [~cody@fl-184-4-188-163.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:40:06 orangepnut [~cody@unaffiliated/orangepnut] has joined #lisp 21:40:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:42:24 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:43:49 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:51:04 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:52:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has 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