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01:35:51 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-238-244.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:35:58 It seems to be an iteration clause, not a function. 01:36:03 probably not a function, but synax? 01:37:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:37:39 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-bwvtucmilapylxms] has joined #lisp 01:37:50 s0ber [~s0ber@1-164-209-112.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:20 paul0 [~paul0@201.86.64.44.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 01:38:48 yes it is a syntax 01:38:56 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 01:39:12 http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/doc/Boolean-Tests.html#index-first_002dtime_002dp-81 01:43:46 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:45:09 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-2-16.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:45:36 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:46:13 Thank you. 01:46:16 bobbysmith007: herep 01:46:30 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:5cd4:98c2:4f91:d2db] has joined #lisp 01:48:49 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:48:50 bobbysmith007: a function in symbol-munger is trying to call that as a function, breaking data-table:symbolize-column-names. I'll create an issue in github. 01:48:54 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:50:48 doh` [~user@39.112.212.212] has joined #lisp 01:50:49 Xach: do you usually fork a project and clone it into local-projects? 01:52:08 sabalaba1 [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:34 ivan-kanis [~user@116-64-86-30.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:54:47 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:55:03 felideon: never forked a project 01:55:09 i just check it out 01:55:33 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:55:46 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:55:59 ryankey [ryankey@adsl-69-230-67-193.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:08 I see 01:59:52 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:02:06 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.84.83] 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I have been trying to figure out the lambda dichotomy... starting with the footnote in Practical Lisp that says "Historically LAMBDA expressions by themselves weren't expressions that could be evaluated. " 04:07:04 -- are there really sexps that can't be evaluated in Lisp? Or if there aren't now, were there before? Was lambda the only one? 04:07:10 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:5cd4:98c2:4f91:d2db] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:07:10 -!- Bacteria_ is now known as Bacteria 04:08:06 wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 04:08:11 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:08:42 -!- ed_g [~chatzilla@75-94-47-26.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:08:46 Rakko: meaning an expression like (a b) if a isn't a function/macro/whatever. lambda didn't used to be a macro. 04:09:17 Oh, so it would just be a plain old list, like (1 2 3)? 04:09:38 Try: (my-lambda (x) (+ 1 x)) in your REPL. 04:09:42 That's a form. 1 isn't a function, so it's not evaluable. 04:09:45 You'd have got the same with old cl:lambda. 04:10:19 Bike: so was (lambda ...) also a form? or something else? 04:10:19 Lambda didn't used to be a function or macro or anything either. Later they made it a macro to expand (lambda ...) into (function (lambda ...)). FUNCTION is a special form so it can do whatever. 04:10:36 right 04:10:50 It'd get you the same result as pjb said, an error, since lambda wasn't a function or macro or anything. 04:12:12 OK. But you could use it in non-initial position, right? 04:12:47 Uh, you could do like (symbolp 'lambda) or something if that's what you mean. Or (let ((lambda ...)) ...) 04:12:49 AFAIK, you could use it in initial position. 04:13:04 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:13:07 ((lambda (x) (* x x)) 42) would have worked as well in cltl1 I think. 04:13:19 oh, interesting 04:13:46 The thing to understand is that the main use of lambda is just as a symbol, beginning a list that FUNCTION handles specially. 04:13:54 also, if (lambda ...) expands into (function (lambda ...)), why doesn't it expand infinitely? is it because function just sees the *word* lambda and knows not to expand it? 04:14:06 Because function is a special operator. 04:14:09 ok 04:14:09 It doesn't expand to anything. 04:14:13 Because FUNCTION is a special operator, it doesn't macroexpand stuff. 04:14:16 It returns a function object. 04:14:23 Rakko: because once it's in (function (lambda ...)) form, it's no longer macroexpandable. 04:14:43 it's just a raw, unevaluated sexp. 04:14:56 OK. And how does ISLISP come into play? PCL says "However, late in the ANSI standardization process, in order to make it possible to implement ISLISP, another Lisp dialect being standardized at the same time, strictly as a user-level compatibility layer on top of Common Lisp, a LAMBDA macro was defined that expands into a call to FUNCTION wrapped around the LAMBDA expression." 04:15:08 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:15:15 But I haven't found out much about ISLISP or how *it* treats lambda 04:15:22 Because in lisp you can write (funcall (lambda (x) (* x x)) 2) 04:15:25 (or why it was necessary to standardize it, for that matter) 04:15:31 in islisp, you mean? 04:15:46 And since lambda is cl:lambda, if it wasn't a macro, you'd be forbidden by 11.2.1.2.1 to define it as a macro. 04:15:51 Yes, in islisp. 04:15:59 ah, ok 04:16:06 Rakko: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/cl-untold-story.html pitman wrote a bit about the weirdness of the lisp community around CL standardization and ISLISP and such. 04:16:12 11.1.2.1.2 I mean. 04:16:22 cool 04:16:47 what's meant by cl:lambda? just lambda in the cl package? 04:16:56 yep. 04:16:57 Yes, that symbol. 04:17:20 you could have a symbol named lambda in a different package, for completely different things. 04:17:39 yeah 04:17:39 compare cl:lambda with cl-stepper:lambda after (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp.stepper) 04:18:25 you can load lisp from online? 04:18:34 Sure. 04:18:48 quicklisp downloads systems if that's what you mean 04:19:21 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:19:33 cool 04:19:48 lispgems :) 04:20:22 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:20:37 more than 11 Mloc of them even. 04:20:47 hefty 04:23:10 ok, so in pre-ansi cl, you would have to do (funcall (function (lambda ...))) 04:23:17 Yes. 04:23:26 is CL synonymous with ANSI CL? 04:23:31 Yes. 04:23:39 You can see a lot of (funcall #'(lambda ...) ...) still. 04:23:43 pjb: well there is CLtL 04:23:51 BountyX [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has joined #lisp 04:23:55 And it's written CLtL, not CL. 04:24:36 -!- BountyX [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has quit [Client Quit] 04:25:15 So it was already "common" but not ANSI-standardized; so the community had already found common ground before ANSI? (maybe I should just read the Pitman link) 04:25:27 Sure. 04:25:43 You cannot enter an ANSI standardization effort without already having something to standardize. 04:25:47 "The original design of the Common Lisp language, culminating in the 1984 publication of Common Lisp: The Language was designed not by an ANSI committee but just by a set of interested individuals." 04:26:23 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:26:33 oh, right -- I was thinking the target of standardization in this case was the whole set of Lisps. But I guess Lisp-1s weren't included. 04:26:48 lisp-1s didn't really exist, other than scheme, I think? 04:27:03 A lot of lisps were lisp-1, notably in Europe. 04:27:20 pjb would know better than me... 04:28:05 I just learned about EuLisp 04:28:21 LeLisp, VLisp, xlisp, etc. 04:30:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:34:34 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@79.138.151.178.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:36:42 Daisy [Daisy@109.58.59.228.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 04:37:12 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:37:18 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 04:39:42 nipra [~Adium@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 04:41:02 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:44:27 okapi [~okapi@ool-44c763d6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:47:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-127.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:48:03 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:52:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:54:33 runciter [~mrw@c-71-204-145-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:28 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-2-16.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:58:33 Bacteria_ [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-2-16.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 04:59:11 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:59:28 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:37 -!- Bacteria_ [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-2-16.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Client Quit] 05:00:19 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-39.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 05:00:35 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:02:47 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:04:43 -!- Daisy [Daisy@109.58.59.228.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:04:53 Daisy [Daisy@109.58.98.207.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 05:08:30 jji [~jji@c220-239-125-8.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:08:46 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:09:50 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:13:47 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:19:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.112] has joined #lisp 05:19:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.112] has quit [Changing host] 05:19:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:19:26 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-243-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:20 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:20:48 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 05:23:47 benny [~user@i577A785D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:24:05 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-222-244-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 05:24:53 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:25:44 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:26:29 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-124-178.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:29 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-124-178.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:26:29 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 05:29:50 -!- AlbireoX`Laptop [~AlbireoX@mobile-166-147-064-076.mycingular.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:31:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:35:40 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:36:54 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 05:38:39 opinions sought. cl-interpol allows "# ... \n" comments, but does also check for the RE-terminating character. 05:38:46 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:39:11 so eg. #?rx( ... # () \n ... ) doesn't work, because the ) in the comment is seen as end-character. 05:39:12 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 05:40:02 should cl-interpol count the start/end-characters and only terminate on \n _or_ a balanced pair, or should just everything be ignored until the \n? 05:40:24 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 05:42:06 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-19-235.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:42:12 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:44:11 it should ignore anything up to and including the \n 05:45:08 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:46:19 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:46:28 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-243-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:46:29 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:48:48 so the current behaviour is a bug? ie. the check for *term-char* (read.lisp:468 for me) is wrong? 05:48:58 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-19-235.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:26 i'm not using cl-interpol, so i only have the above opinion based on what you write. 05:49:57 edi is not using cl-interpol either, so if you want to have this fixed, you need to supply a patch 05:50:19 the patch is not a problem ... I'm not sure what the intended behaviour is. 05:50:46 is the "ignore _everything_ until newline" or the "allow to terminate the RE within a comment" more important? 05:51:10 -!- lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:51:16 it should ignore anything up to and including the \n 05:51:26 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 05:52:14 docs say it's based on perl, how does perl do it? 05:52:33 perl strips comments first. 05:53:00 seems like that oughta be the defined behavior then. 05:53:04 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:53:47 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.11.236.250] has joined #lisp 05:53:47 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:54:30 well, I could see an argument for start/end character counting, too ... ie. #?rx( . # () ) would terminate at the second ) again 05:54:55 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.11.236.250] has quit [Client Quit] 05:55:03 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 05:55:30 flip214: line comments are line comments. they are stripped before any processing. they cannot be terminated other than by a newline. 05:55:52 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:55 If the intent is to allow Perl regexes to be dumped straight into lisp as it says, seems like it should do like perl, regardless of anything else. (though personally making the reader continue parsing in comments seems ridiculous to me) 05:56:12 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 05:56:15 ok, will send a patch. 05:56:45 send a pull request against https://github.com/edicl/cl-interpol 05:57:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:58:06 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-243-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:30 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:58:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:59:11 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:01:28 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.169.142.244] has joined #lisp 06:02:11 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:31 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.179.236] has joined #lisp 06:03:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:05:36 lggr 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phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:49:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:50:30 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 06:51:15 What P mean in functions that return T nil (SDL:MOUSE-FOCUS-P state) 06:51:29 Predicate. 06:51:40 thanks 06:54:43 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.33.19] has joined #lisp 06:55:01 -!- cibs [~cibs@219-87-142-18.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:55:54 -!- homie```` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-142.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:56:35 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:56:46 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-145-142.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:57:46 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-142.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:59:28 mathrick [~mathrick@188.181.106.202] has joined #lisp 07:00:07 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined 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08:30:10 Daisy [~Daisy@79.138.151.178.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 08:32:26 anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 08:32:34 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.84.83] has joined #lisp 08:32:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:32:42 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 08:32:50 agumonkey [~agu@208.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:59 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:43:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:43:41 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:44:30 -!- NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lhaakbmlvekacwmp] has quit [] 08:45:34 NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-noclouslhfkvenvs] has joined #lisp 08:47:58 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:48:34 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.59.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:49:25 tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.59.191] has joined #lisp 08:51:34 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@105.252.67.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:54:11 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.11.204.241] has joined #lisp 08:54:16 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@95.161.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:54:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:57:08 how can I load packages like this using quicklisp (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :lispbuilder-sdl-examples) 08:57:43 Hi can anyone to me how is the *random-state* generated in make-random-state? Does it depend on the time in the computer where does the randomeness come from? 08:57:46 Better question is can I do that ? 08:57:59 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.84.83] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 08:59:14 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:00:12 Kvaks [~quassel@95.161.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 09:01:28 cajetanus [~cajetanus@2002:4fba:96cd:0:a5b9:d2e6:a956:6ff7] has joined #lisp 09:01:39 lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has joined #lisp 09:01:54 jasox: lispbuilder-sdl-examples is in quicklisp, so you can just quickload it. Also use ql:system-apropos to see if something is in quicklisp 09:03:56 Great, I tought I just need to quickload lispbuilder-sdl. and examples come with it. I quickload it now successfully 09:03:57 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:18 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:31 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-39.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:06:05 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:06:54 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07:28 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.84.83] has joined #lisp 09:09:16 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-220-149.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:09:58 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.84.83] has quit [Client Quit] 09:10:23 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:11:49 -!- jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has left #lisp 09:14:23 chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has joined #lisp 09:14:35 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.33.19] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 09:14:56 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.33.19] has joined #lisp 09:15:16 willijar [~quassel@134.151.144.246] has joined #lisp 09:16:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:18:57 gairola [~gairola@223.165.29.225] has joined #lisp 09:19:05 xan_ [~xan@fanzine.igalia.com] has joined #lisp 09:19:31 -!- lcc [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:21:26 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:22:04 francogrex: " Instead, the initialization of random-state objects is left to the implementor in the case where the argument t is given to make-random-state." 09:22:44 but yes, using the time as seed might be common - like libc does (or at least did). 09:24:03 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 09:24:12 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.11.204.241] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 09:24:44 add^_ [~add^_@m90-131-125-57.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:24:49 teggi_ [~teggi@113.172.46.248] has joined #lisp 09:25:33 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.46.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:26:03 libnet.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory., get this error - I am trying to quickload lispbuilder-net-examples. What package should I install, can someone give me reference (tried installing some packages but it doesn't work) 09:27:19 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1ab3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:44 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:28:12 Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.84.243] has joined #lisp 09:28:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:29:06 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:31:23 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:31:38 The_Sorceror [~Sorceror@42.109.63.0] has joined #lisp 09:32:34 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:32:56 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 09:34:56 -!- The_Sorceror [~Sorceror@42.109.63.0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:28 yakov [~yakov@195.144.239.226] has joined #lisp 09:37:17 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:38:10 jasox: I'm not sure if your getting the same problem I had a couple of days ago. But if it is, I used a "temp" solution. (setenv "LD_LIBRARY_PATH" /whereever/your/.so/is) in the .emacs file 09:38:21 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 09:38:22 to make it find it 09:39:11 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:39:40 the /wherever/ part should probably be in " " but I'm not sure. 09:40:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:40:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.112] has joined #lisp 09:40:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.112] has quit [Changing host] 09:40:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:41:24 Just tried to search that package with 'aptitue search libnet.so', but it gave me some perl related package - libnet-socks-perl. add^_ 09:41:30 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 09:41:30 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 09:41:41 hm 09:42:08 doomlord [~ceti331@host81-157-102-115.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:42:39 well, it should still be found in emacs if you use that line in the .emacs file :-/ It's another problem if it's the wrong file, but that comes later ;-) 09:43:32 When people helped me with my problem, they said to use ld/ldd and nm on the .so to see if it was or wasn't broken 09:43:45 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:43:50 Although that was probably mostly because I had built the .so myself. 09:45:00 ah well, apparently I had an appointment today xD have to run. 09:45:14 Hope it gets solved jasox ! 09:45:16 Cya 09:46:44 add^_: Need to check one more think :) 09:46:54 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-bwvtucmilapylxms] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:47:10 thing* 09:47:47 yeah baby it works now, I installed libnet1-dev 09:50:13 -!- gairola [~gairola@223.165.29.225] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:50:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:54:46 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:57:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.33.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:58:36 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 09:59:33 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 10:01:09 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925078626.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:01:23 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.59.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:01:24 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:02:11 cl-http has url::http-search, representing a url with a query string. It has slots name-string and search-keys. If search-keys are updated, I'd like to update name-string. How to call a particular function whenever a specific slot is updated? 10:02:28 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:02:44 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176441792.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 10:02:44 chr: without the mop, you don't 10:03:06 chr: that is why many recommend using accessors rather than using slot-value directly 10:05:10 There is an implicit defsetf for (search-keys ), that's sort of the write-accessor. 10:06:05 then you may be able to specialize (setf search-keys) 10:06:07 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:06:19 i don't know anything about cl-http though. 10:10:29 -!- yakov [~yakov@195.144.239.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:13:03 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:16:26 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:17:08 -!- cajetanus [~cajetanus@2002:4fba:96cd:0:a5b9:d2e6:a956:6ff7] has quit [Quit: cajetanus] 10:18:19 nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:55 -!- nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 10:19:03 nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:45 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 10:20:10 -!- nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:21:44 yakov [~yakov@195.144.239.226] has joined #lisp 10:22:20 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:43 good day #lisp 10:22:46 :) 10:23:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:25:39 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 10:27:13 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-145-142.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 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[~user@52.168.102.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:35:34 b0ef````` [~user@52.168.102.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 11:36:02 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:39:35 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:50 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:40:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:43:39 -!- nipra [~Adium@61.12.27.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:44:41 paul0 [~paul0@177.132.100.193] has joined #lisp 11:44:58 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:47:12 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:48:10 yakov [~yakov@195.144.239.226] has joined #lisp 11:48:34 -!- squama [~squama@c114-77-45-236.brodm3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:51:28 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined 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[~jtza8@196-215-120-246.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:45 -!- barik [~barik@short.csc.ncsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:23:54 -!- DrPete [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:24:49 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:25:17 barik [~barik@short.csc.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 12:31:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:33:15 orivej [~orivej@2a02:6b8:0:408:226:b9ff:fed4:e255] has joined #lisp 12:36:08 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:36:36 ksergio [~sgarcia@mail.ageophysics.com] has joined #lisp 12:36:50 -!- ksergio [~sgarcia@mail.ageophysics.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:38:12 -!- yakov [~yakov@195.144.239.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:40:44 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 12:41:32 Hello! Do you know how to change external format of *standard-input* (using SBCL)? 12:41:56 the easiest way is to set the LANG environment variable before starting SBCL 12:42:41 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:44:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:46:57 yakov [~yakov@195.144.239.226] has joined #lisp 12:46:57 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.247] has joined #lisp 12:50:58 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:50:59 maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 12:52:14 It does not seem to work. I run LANG=en_US.ISO-8859-1 and SBCL reads and prints characters outside this encoding. 12:52:26 _export_ 12:53:06 orivej: there are no invalid encoding values in iso-8859-1. 12:53:16 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 12:53:39 Thank you. 12:53:52 orivej: what is the value of sb-impl::*default-external-format* for you? 12:54:25 It remains :utf-8. 12:55:27 does that locale actually exist on your system? 12:55:34 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:55:35 orivej: check for LC_ALL in your environment. it might have overridden LANG 12:55:50 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:56:02 It is undefined. 12:56:03 orivej: i tried: env LC_ALL=en_US.ASCII LANG=en_US.ASCII sbcl 12:56:27 orivej: that works for me (i.e. sb-impl::*default-external-format* is :US-ASCII) 12:56:53 Yes, setting LC_ALL helps. Thanks! 13:02:12 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:04:24 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-147-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:40 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 13:07:16 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:09:54 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:09:56 -!- chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has left #lisp 13:14:18 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:15:22 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.130] has joined #lisp 13:18:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:19:54 -!- orivej [~orivej@2a02:6b8:0:408:226:b9ff:fed4:e255] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:20:33 -!- chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] 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[~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 13:47:02 mathrick_ [~mathrick@94.144.63.86] has joined #lisp 13:47:47 -!- gmdjm1959 [~gmdjm1959@ip70-185-115-2.ga.at.cox.net] has left #lisp 13:47:56 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:50:00 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:51:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:51:25 gmdjm1959 [~gmdjm1959@ip70-185-115-2.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:49 felideon: thank, I will look into it an patch 13:54:44 sellout42 [~Adium@207.225.123.108] has joined #lisp 13:56:04 -!- kjbrock [~user@173-11-106-198-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:56:24 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56:45 -!- lggr 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[~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 14:28:46 -!- yakov [~yakov@195.144.239.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:30:12 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 14:30:40 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 14:32:40 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:32:50 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.84.243] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 14:33:04 chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has joined #lisp 14:33:07 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 14:35:09 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 14:35:31 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:38 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:44:15 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:44:33 bobbysmith007: actually. i noticed something weird. it may be my fault. 14:45:05 bobbysmith007: seems like we have an old iterate lying around and that was the one being loaded. 14:45:17 *felideon* apologizes for the noises 14:46:30 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:47:31 felideon: no problem 14:49:09 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:50:51 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:52:50 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:54:47 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:57:52 s/noises/noise )) 14:59:20 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:00:37 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 15:01:20 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:04:52 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:18 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:45 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 15:07:59 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:09:13 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 15:09:26 Q: is there some way in SLDB to say "edit definition for this stack frame"? 15:09:46 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:11:10 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has left #lisp 15:11:21 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 15:11:27 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-243-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:11:49 is there an initilization file like sbclrc equivalent in clozure-cl? 15:12:34 axion: yes! 15:13:12 in your home directory, .ccl-init.lisp will be read at startup (on unixy platforms) and ccl-init.lisp will be read on windows 15:13:24 check the manual to get the full picture 15:13:28 nice, is this the preferred way to setup quicklisp? 15:14:09 axion: quicklisp's setup optionally adds it to the current implementation's init file. 15:14:11 axion: I just use (ql:add-to-init-file) to update the init file. 15:14:41 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:15:05 -!- lammb [~lammb@host86-180-112-161.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:15:19 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:15:31 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:16:24 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 15:16:32 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:18:37 hmmm 15:18:47 can't seem to load setup.lisp 15:18:51 yakov [~yakov@195.144.239.226] has joined #lisp 15:18:53 does anyone know how to append a say a symbol like pi to the result of the :accessor methods ? 15:18:56 what happens when you try? 15:19:14 Unbound variable: CCL::FASL-VERSION 15:19:39 the result the primary writer and writer methods return are just a number, i want to append a pi to them sometimes..... 15:19:50 erm, reader and writer... 15:20:19 axion: hmmmm 15:20:27 axion: what version of clozure cl are you using? 15:20:40 Clozure Common Lisp Version 1.9-dev-r15424M-trunk (LinuxARM32) Port: 4005 Pid: 12013 15:20:48 nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:01 rpi? 15:21:04 yes 15:21:05 -!- nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:21:14 :D 15:21:24 xaxisx_ [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 15:21:28 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:21:38 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:21:43 wbooze: you want to do what? 15:21:44 i got it working before, but this is a new install 15:22:16 I've seen that error before, but I'm not sure what the fix is 15:22:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:23:23 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-243-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:14 merge a numeric value with a symbol like 3 pi or so 15:24:24 in the end 15:25:40 wbooze: no, still don't get it. perhaps an example will clear it up, could you give one? 15:25:42 but it's in a format directive.... 15:25:46 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:26:10 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 15:26:16 (defmethod side-a :after ((tri triangle)) (format t " pi")..... 15:26:39 i want the angles to express that they are in radians 15:26:56 not just calculate in radians..... 15:26:57 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has left #lisp 15:27:27 the sides are float values 15:27:45 coerced to at instance creation 15:28:12 pi or rad .....whatever there 15:28:20 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:30:30 (a :accessor side-a :initarg :side-a) is one slot, the reader/writer gf's/methods are implicit , i wanted to override or append to them results.... 15:30:58 wbooze: you don't want the value of pi after it, you want the string "pi" to be printed, correct? 15:32:17 wbooze: yes, they are defined implicit, you can overwrite them. however, you're still leaving too much blanks. i'm still not able to pinpoint what you actually want to do. what problem you are trying to solve. (sentences which have words in odd places doesn't help) 15:32:42 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-85.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:32:52 hmm, quickstart:install fails half after downloading with the same problem 15:33:21 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:33:22 wbooze: are you trying to print the value whenever the accessor is called? (and if so, why) 15:33:25 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:00 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-142.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:35:14 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-145-142.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:35:15 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:48 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.124] has joined #lisp 15:37:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.124] has quit [Changing host] 15:37:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:37:18 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-154-85.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:39:01 Xach: the problem it seems is the module asdf is not provided by CCL, despite there being a /usr/share/ccl/tools/asdf.lisp, any ideas? 15:39:28 pick a different checkout of CCL, I guess. 15:39:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:39:45 looks like their trunk is bleh. 15:39:57 which do you suggest? 15:41:54 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 15:42:08 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:43:26 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 15:43:37 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-154-85.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:07 sykopomp: because the linuxarm 1.8 release's binary before 'make clean' segfaults, and the binary after i 'make' returns: CPU doesn't support required features 15:46:54 - 15:47:20 deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:48:25 axion: you still need a development version, yes, but you may want to try and earlier point in trunk. 15:48:36 if my rpi was currently up, I'd tell you what revision I'm at. 15:48:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:49:08 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-154-85.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:49:25 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-154-85.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:41 yes i can confirm an earlier point did work...not sure which 15:49:51 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-154-85.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:50:17 i found a temp fix 15:50:20 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-243-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:50:32 loading /usr/share/ccl/tools/asdf.lisp first 15:51:06 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:52:06 bobbysmith007: you guys work mainly on SBCL? 15:53:05 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:53:13 felideon: indeed, on ubuntu64 15:53:34 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:52 bobbysmith007: yeah, had to finally switch to SBCL (from CCL, from ACL) because of ITERATE. :) 15:55:42 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 15:57:16 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:57:40 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:57:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:58:54 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:59:58 felideon: does iterate not work on those common implementations? thats a bit disconcerting, I was more under the impression it was sidely supported 16:00:38 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:02:19 actually, cl-csv doesn't work on mlisp (ACL modern mode) because of a few upcase symbols. 16:02:46 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:03:23 and on CCL, iterate seems to give me an error: Unbound variable: ITERATE::*SHARED-BINDINGS-ALIST* 16:04:13 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.130] has joined #lisp 16:06:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:07:30 bobbysmith007: after I'm done with my task I'll probably have some time to make cl-csv modern-mode friendly. 16:08:22 felideon: is that mostly about ensuring all symbols are all in lower case? 16:08:49 -!- teggi_ [~teggi@113.172.46.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:56 have anybody run cliki on heroku? 16:09:03 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 16:09:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:36 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 16:09:55 bobbysmith007: I believe so, yes. 16:10:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:10 is modern-mode just a case-inverting reader? 16:11:10 -!- okapi [~okapi@ool-44c763d6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11:34 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:11:40 felideon: that is generally my practise, but looking through the files, its seems I strongly prefer T to t, I'm curious if thats *all* of the problems 16:12:26 bobbysmith007: that's what I noticed too. 16:13:27 - 16:14:02 felideon: I will push a patch that at lowercases the t's (and any other random uppercase I come across, thanks for letting me know this was a problem 16:14:21 jasom: readtable-case is :preserve 16:14:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:14:45 felideon: I just found the page on franz.com for it now; so it is preserve, and they downcase all the ANSI symbols 16:14:49 bobbysmith007: no problem, you're welcome. 16:14:58 jasom: correct 16:15:30 felideon: couldn't you just load cl-csv with a downcasing reader then? 16:16:21 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:33 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:16:41 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:19:46 deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:20:43 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-154-85.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:23 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:22:39 jasom: tell that to H4ns *snicker* 16:23:05 jasom: but I'm not sure, is that really recommended? 16:23:48 no clue, I develop in common lisp, where all the standard symbols are uppercase 16:25:24 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-154-85.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:26:06 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 16:26:23 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:26:36 The_Sorceror 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[~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:13:12 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:29 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:51 Xach: from included with ccl 17:14:25 wacky 17:14:58 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:15:21 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:21 ls /usr/share/ccl/tools/ 17:16:23 asdf.lisp defsystem.lisp README-OpenMCL.txt 17:16:40 -!- nipra [~Adium@122.161.135.96] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:16:44 readme says current as of feb 2005 17:18:28 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:19 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:21:26 runciter [~mrw@c-71-204-145-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:32 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:47 -!- The_Sorceror [~Sorceror@42.108.91.29] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:23:11 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 17:25:01 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:25:30 got it 17:25:46 well i figured out the problem 17:25:49 DrPete [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has joined #lisp 17:25:50 calling next-method in :before :after methods is not allowed..... 17:26:00 so had to use :around 17:26:05 meh 17:26:25 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-017-052.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:26:53 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:27:21 it's not allowed because it doesn't make sense. 17:27:33 all fixed...bad package. /usr/bin/armcl was a copy of /usr/share/ccl/armcl, rather than a symlink 17:27:52 axion: phew 17:29:09 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-017-052.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 17:30:13 The_Sorceror [~Sorceror@42.108.170.126] has joined #lisp 17:31:27 pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has joined #lisp 17:31:42 -!- yakov [~yakov@195.144.239.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:31:58 yakov [~yakov@195.144.239.226] has joined #lisp 17:32:21 -!- yakov [~yakov@195.144.239.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:47 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:34:11 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:34:59 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-78-211.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:35:35 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:41:43 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-017-052.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:42:01 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:42:20 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:44:15 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 17:44:50 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 17:45:20 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-017-052.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 17:45:41 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 17:47:17 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:47:29 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.12.156.164] has joined #lisp 17:49:52 -!- nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:50:56 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 17:51:30 oh man, now the prit is always there from the around.... 17:51:38 print 17:52:02 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:52:31 -!- xaxisx_ [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has left #lisp 17:52:32 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:40 Use remove-method 17:53:15 huh= 17:53:20 ? 17:53:29 sorry i didn't get that 17:54:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:54:42 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 17:56:29 clhs remove-method 17:56:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_met.htm 17:58:46 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:04:59 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:05:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:06:40 sabalaba [~Adium@2602:306:37fe:67f0:41f3:49f4:dbc:94b3] has joined #lisp 18:07:05 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:10:40 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:10:40 -!- pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:11:34 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:12:38 -!- chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:15:09 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-222-244-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:16:01 thanks 18:16:34 when in doubt, clhs 18:17:09 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:17:09 -!- jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:04 tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.59.191] has joined #lisp 18:19:19 ikki [~ikki@189.196.122.254] has joined #lisp 18:19:28 hmm, calling remove-method from from within an around method didn't work tho 18:19:47 or maybe i had a typo 18:20:11 So you're defining a method to remove another method? Is that what you want? 18:20:26 remove-method is used to undo defmethod. 18:20:51 erm, yes i'm overriding a method via :around and in that around another around method gets called which i want to suppress.... 18:20:54 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-017-052.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:21:37 from within the primary method it gets called 18:21:42 that's why 18:22:31 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:22:50 I think you need to reconsider what you're doing. 18:23:12 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:23:19 starting with your choice of using a computer at all 18:23:25 :-) 18:24:12 yes, it's the primary method which returns in the end not ?, and the method i want to remove gets called in that primary method, so removing it from the around method is not working or so 18:24:54 Maybe you should learn how clos works. 18:25:14 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:17 i'm trying to right now 18:25:47 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-017-052.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 18:29:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:29:43 at the end of http://paste.lisp.org/display/132149, there 18:29:49 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 18:30:26 emma_anne [~emma_anne@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:05 wbooze: what? 18:31:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:31:44 the primary area method and the :around one 18:31:49 both contain the remove 18:31:58 but i'm not sure which one to put it in 18:32:13 when it's in both it works 18:32:22 What are you really trying to do? 18:32:25 good god, what the hell 18:32:28 i'm just not sure which one i could have ommited the remove 18:32:30 torment me 18:32:44 from the primary or the :around alone ? 18:33:02 In your life, but more specifically in that code. 18:33:14 this is a bit terrifying 18:33:18 is there a function that returns all slots of a class-instance as a p- or alist? 18:34:06 flip214: you'd have to use mop:class-slots and then massage the data how you want. mop:slot-definition-name and all 18:34:29 wbooze: try: (defmethod m ((self integer)) (print (list 'integer self))) (defmethod m :around ((self integer)) (print 'integer) (when (next-method-p) (call-next-method)) (print self)) (m 42) (remove-method (function m) (find-method (function m) '(:around) '(integer))) (m 42) 18:34:57 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:35:08 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 18:35:20 my parents consider software development a waste of my potential >.< 18:35:42 -!- runciter [~mrw@c-71-204-145-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: q] 18:35:44 they're probably right 18:35:51 RebelBunny: sure. If I wasn't short sighted I'd be an astronaut. 18:35:51 -!- My_Hearing is now known as Mon_Ouie 18:36:03 So if you can, you should aim for the stars, instead of virtual worlds. 18:36:43 Can't wait for virtual reality 18:36:50 RebelBunny: http://11.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kueb3lb5h51qzv9mho1_500.jpg 18:36:56 Bike: yes, thanks - so there's no existing method for that? need something (print-object) like, for debugging. hmmm, perhaps a swank function? 18:37:10 Indecipherable: you already have a virtual reality made by the best programmer of the world, at your disposal. Just use it! 18:37:10 flip214: it's a 3-liner function. Just write it. 18:37:48 sykopomp: how many people have already written it, in more or less working terms? unbound slots and all that? 18:37:52 thanks, though. 18:37:53 Well, then i want a virtual-virtual reality 18:38:00 flip214: oh, if you want that... (describe obj) 18:38:03 flip214: that'll give you a nice printout :) 18:38:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:38:14 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:22 It will be a global interconnected network 18:38:26 pbj: very funny 18:38:34 With public realms 18:38:43 flip214: see print-parseable-object in http://fossil.informatimago.com:8002/patchwork/artifact/d21f54baf6aa630b1b268dbd5fc0dfa9420271c6 18:38:51 flip214: is that all you need it for? 18:38:52 And private realms per person 18:39:09 That are customizable 18:39:22 So, another Second Life? 18:39:35 someone needs to stop reading stephenson 18:39:46 errant god ? 18:39:54 I'd love to program a virtual universe too. 18:39:55 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:01 wbooze: seriously, what are you actually trying to do, because that mess is almost certainly not a good way to do it. 18:40:04 mmmm 18:40:06 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:40:07 Mine will be a mix 18:40:27 I'd write it with physical rules too. :-) 18:40:39 Bike: i used the exact example fitted onto mine from the keene's clos book 18:40:43 Of lotr, TES, harry potter, warcraft and stuff like that 18:40:49 meh 18:41:28 Haven't read Keene, sorry. 18:41:50 and ignore the code above, that was a meld of the examples from the book and some cl library ..... 18:41:55 in that link 18:42:03 oh ok 18:42:53 the interrupt parts.... 18:44:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:44:33 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.84.83] has joined #lisp 18:48:28 Bike: i'm just trying to learn, how to add, solder, remove methods to my fitting...... 18:48:34 meh 18:48:56 the results maybe wrong at the moment.....for the semantics of the code..... 18:49:21 RebelBunny: what country are you in? 18:49:41 nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:43 i didn't try to write all sense making code ....it's just some examples i try to work out..... 18:50:26 wbooze: you're just trying to find the area of a triangle or something, yeah? don't overthink it and end up with a crazy design 18:50:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:50:59 hmmm, yes, i was trying todo it the oop style ..... 18:51:36 oop style doesn't mean adding and removing methods at runtime 18:51:37 Ralith: .us 18:51:53 RebelBunny: you should tell them about the job market. 18:51:56 wth 18:53:12 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:53:19 RebelBunny: a good dev can swing pretty crazy salaries these days, even just out of school 18:54:12 Ralith: It would still be a 'waste of my potential' I made a decent salary as developer this summer as an intern. I'm still in school 18:54:36 RebelBunny: just what do they think your potential is? o.O 18:54:47 RebelBunny: what would they rather you become? 18:54:55 Okay, sorry this is offtopic 18:55:05 felideon: drop everything and apply to medical school 18:55:06 RebelBunny: Is is about money, or about bragging to friends that their child is a brain surgeon? 18:55:12 a burgler! 18:55:17 pavelpenev: Probably the latter 18:55:20 wow, I must have psy powers 18:55:25 lol 18:55:26 welp 18:55:34 *Ralith* was thinking about saying "what do they want you to be, a doctor?" 18:55:57 no a patient! 18:56:02 lol 18:56:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:56:12 tjahah 18:56:23 not much you can do with that except just be your own person I guess 18:56:28 My parents say i should become a lawyer 18:56:30 Get a phd in CS. They can still brag you are a doctor, and only you would care that it isn't the right kind. 18:56:51 lawyering, now, there's a shitty job market. 18:56:53 you could do software development for a hospital. or research, bioinformatics is all new and shiny. 18:57:41 Ralith: you don't get paid peanuts, though 18:57:54 turning around molecules and fitting the receptors ? 18:58:00 hmmmm 18:58:00 Indecipherable: you get paid styrofoam peanuts :P 18:58:05 But yeah, CS is more interesting 18:58:13 meh 18:58:16 there's a serious selection bias there 18:58:33 you only hear about the rich lawyers, not the hundreds-of-times-more-common ones they stand upon. 18:58:43 Well, a.i is more interesting! 18:58:47 that too :D 18:58:52 Well, you could be both a lawyer and a computer programmer. If you're schizophrenic enough. 18:59:02 I've been very lucky my folks have been supporting my obsession with computers since the time buying one would cost 6 months of my mothers salary (late 90's teachers salary in Bulgaria). 18:59:07 hell, I suspect there's some opportunities re: applying AI to law. 18:59:12 You'd make a bunch of money being both. 18:59:21 You could write AI lawyer software. 18:59:27 Google Lawyer Bot. 18:59:30 How much do lindt chocolatiers get paid? 18:59:31 you could probably write most EULAs smiautomatically 18:59:32 well healing an illness is all interesting ....but it's not about healing in the end..... 18:59:33 anything to make legal research easier 18:59:47 meh 19:00:07 You could react to precendents established one second previously! 19:00:32 *Ralith* suspects it's a lot easier to make money selling things to lawyers than being a lawyer 19:00:51 for someone who's already a competent dev, anyway. 19:01:45 half my high-school class studies law at the moment, monthly reunions are boring, since the topic is mostly law school. 19:02:02 you have monthly reunions with your HS class? o.O 19:02:22 there's not much else to do 19:02:23 Ralith: no more than 5-6 people at a time 19:02:41 we all live all over the country now. 19:02:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:02:56 Just use alice bot as the judge, prosecutor, jury and defendant 19:02:59 ed_g [~chatzilla@67-5-162-87.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:15 It will be ... fun 19:03:36 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:54 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.84.83] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:04:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:05:07 Ralith pavelpenev Maybe software development isn't a waste of my potential... at least unless I can get into a position to actually apply my higher maths 19:05:49 Lisp is cool for mathematicians. 19:05:58 yep 19:06:00 I agree :) 19:06:01 *Ralith* was fortunate enough to come from an engineering family 19:08:18 -!- emma_anne [~emma_anne@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:08:36 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.12.156.164] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 19:08:46 *wbooze* put on his little squares today to protest stassats! 19:08:46 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:51 lol 19:09:18 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:46 -!- nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:10:43 RebelBunny: You pretty much need to cut my arms off to stop me from messing with computers, and even then, you would have only slowed me down. Do what you love, it is impossible to utilize ones potential efficiently without passion. Tell your parents that. 19:10:51 nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:23 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:11:58 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-017-052.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:12:40 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-017-052.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 19:13:28 emma_anne [~emma_anne@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:17:10 Ralith: I'm a math major, is software development a waste of my potential if I don't get to use my higher maths? 19:17:17 -!- nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:17:31 -!- emma_anne [~emma_anne@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:56 if the potential you're talking about isn't measured in joules or volts or something it's probably illdefined 19:19:23 RebelBunny: it might be a waste of your last year or two of studies, but most math ends up being useful in software sooner or later. 19:19:57 if you aren't studying any particular kind of math yet, then you can easily select software-relevant kinds 19:20:16 What are 'software-relevant kinds' 19:20:22 of math 19:20:25 can't talk more right now 19:20:27 others will know 19:20:29 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483B573.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:20:42 ...? 19:21:13 all kinds. 19:21:17 RebelBunny: depends on what you want to do. 19:21:30 -!- lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:21:39 sykopomp: (describe-object) throws an error "Argument X is not a NUMBER: NIL" in SB-KERNEL:TWO-ARG-- for a CL-PPCRE::STR .... hrmpf 19:21:40 discrete math finds a lot of applications. 19:22:09 anything that deals with integers really. 19:22:13 flip214: you're not supposed to call describe-object yourself 19:23:11 Bike: and that's enough reason for such an error??? ;) 19:23:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:23:32 I dunno, maybe. What's just calling DESCRIBE do? 19:23:34 lcc [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 19:23:55 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B573.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:08 printing a lot of (readable) information ... too much, sadly. thanks, though - I'll find a way around that. 19:24:29 RebelBunny: in taocp knuth uses calculus and kirchhoff's circuit laws for flow analysis. you can apply lots of things in lots of places 19:24:34 I don't think that *all* slots are the correct output anyway -- will have to do something that depends on the type of object. 19:24:39 *print-length* *print-level* 19:24:43 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-017-052.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:25:20 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:25:45 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:25:54 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@99-130-100-63.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:26:39 flip214: (describe object) 19:26:43 not describe-object 19:27:03 flip214: describe-object must not be called by the user. 19:30:47 sykopomp: yeah, on re-reading I saw that there's no "-" in there ... the autocompletion made it too easy ;) 19:31:48 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@79.138.151.178.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:32:04 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:32:37 Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.251.131.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 19:34:38 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:41:02 -!- trigen [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:3027:147:2bd6:7949] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:41:21 trigen [~MSX@2001:0:5ef5:79fd:3027:147:2bd6:7949] has joined #lisp 19:41:23 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:42:15 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 19:46:27 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:46:33 -!- The_Sorceror [~Sorceror@42.108.170.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:47:26 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:50:32 deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:53:23 -!- jasox is now known as jasox-afk 19:53:36 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 19:53:47 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:56:04 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@39.37.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:58:08 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:00:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@fanzine.igalia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:02:11 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:04:41 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-222-244-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:04:59 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:08:08 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:09:41 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: catmtking] 20:10:04 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:10:49 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 20:11:58 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-218-199-172.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:12:17 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@39.37.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 20:12:35 superflit [~superflit@75-171-202-122.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:42 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@99-130-100-63.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:12 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:16:41 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:16:48 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:31 Ralith Bike maybe I should go into finance programming or a scientific programming or go into software verification 20:17:50 to feel like my potential isn't wasted while in the software industry 20:17:58 RebelBunny: you might be interested in type theory 20:18:28 ties very closely into verified programming 20:18:43 Ralith: am I wrong to think my potential is wasted if I'm not using higher level maths? 20:18:48 yes. 20:19:00 Ralith: why? 20:19:15 because I chose to define 'potential' such that the answer to that question is yes. 20:19:53 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:20:29 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 20:21:12 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:21:28 but that's no reason not to seek out mathy programming if it interests you. 20:21:37 you can find ways to use maths all over the place. born figured out matrix mechanics because of a math class he'd taken even though physics didn't really require it at the time. and don't worry about 'potential', it doesn't really mean anything. 20:21:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:22:02 perhaps the only problem here is asking about life decisions on an irc channel that's supposedly for programming. 20:22:12 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:22:19 well, I did invite it. 20:23:36 and a lot of his concern seems to be about what he might be able to do in programming. 20:26:40 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:27:02 The_Sorceror [~Sorceror@42.108.193.246] has joined #lisp 20:27:40 jup, eheh, (defpackage locks 20:27:45 uups 20:27:56 Bike: Like the historical example of Max Born although I'm not too sure how it applies 20:28:06 here the rest so far http://paste.lisp.org/display/132151 20:28:21 RebelBunny: i meant, he used a "higher math" thing in an unexpected application. 20:28:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:28:46 as I understand, physics used to not involve nearly as much "higher math" as it does now. it's a bit surreal. 20:28:56 -!- Vicfred [~Grothendi@201.102.58.16] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:30:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:31:23 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:33:13 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@99-130-100-63.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:34:43 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:35:06 I think math is one of the most worthwhile things to study, simply because it is so universally applicable, even as it becomes abstract 20:35:57 math is fine 20:36:08 it just takes time and patience and exercise..... 20:36:31 it's almost like worthwhile things take some doing :P 20:36:40 yes 20:36:43 lke cl 20:36:50 eheh 20:37:08 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:39:10 woudl there be a way to specify that the primary method takes not &key option but the :around one does ? 20:39:13 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:39:28 will i have to explicitly state the gf then ? 20:39:40 with those options (lambda list) 20:40:36 it told me, i forgot it at the beginning to put a &key in the primary ones, that the gf does use &rest rather than &key....... 20:40:40 You can have the gf take keys and other keys and then just have the primary method ignore its keys. 20:40:51 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:41:09 no i mean why would the gf default to &rest ? 20:41:13 is that impl specific ? 20:41:22 or is it specified in the spec ? 20:42:29 Ralith Bike  last chance I got was hashing with the Cantor pairing function a couple weeks ago 20:42:35 (for work) 20:44:08 wbooze: (defgeneric f (a &key &allow-other-keys)) (defmethod f (a &key &allow-other-keys) (print a)) (defmethod f :around (a &key k &allow-other-keys) (print k) (call-next-method)) (f 42 :k 33) 20:44:22 -!- The_Sorceror [~Sorceror@42.108.193.246] has quit [Quit: time to die!] 20:45:13 so &allow-other-keys is the varargs version for keys ? 20:45:20 oh ok 20:45:20 If you want. 20:45:43 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:45:44 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:10 ok 20:46:18 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:55 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:48:47 -!- jji [~jji@c220-239-125-8.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:51:04 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:53:20 cic_ [~connolly@Catnip.AI.SRI.COM] has joined #lisp 20:54:36 -!- mjs2600_ [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:54:56 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:38 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:57:55 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 21:00:39 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:47 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:09:20 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:11:53 uselpa [~uselpa@83.99.17.52] has joined #lisp 21:13:12 TDT [~user@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 21:14:13 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:16 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:14:57 I have a defmethod like (x y) but I need to change it to (x y z) but i get the error: The generic function # takes 2 required arguments; was asked to find a method with specializers 21:15:17 there may be a restart to redefine the generic function. 21:15:35 Otherwise, unintern the symbol naming the function and reload it. 21:15:38 uselpa_ [~uselpa@83.99.17.52] has joined #lisp 21:15:54 Hey all. I'm giving a little thought about lisp apps on multiple systems, and some of these apps aren't really something I want public but I want it to be easy to install. Right now, I've been just checking them out of git, and creating symlinks in ~/.sbcl/systems - but since I'm using quicklisp a fair amount, the question came up if having something hooked into quicklisp would be better. So if I was to do a (ql:quickload 21:15:54 "privateproject") that it'd check it out of my personal repository, process all dependencies correctly, and so on. Anyone else do this, is it a decent design decision, is it possible to do without causing problems with updating quicklisp? 21:16:46 have a look at saving executable images. 21:16:53 pjb: unintern worked, no restart was available besides abort 21:16:59 ltbarcly: I prefer the practice of defining generic functions before any methods are defined. 21:17:16 (defgeneric frob (x y)) ... (defmethod frob ((x class1) (y class2)) ....) 21:17:23 sykopomp: I don't have any idea why I would do that, so I had better go re-read the docs :) 21:17:41 or even (defgeneric frob (x y) (:method ((x class1) (y class 2)) ) ) 21:17:54 ltbarcly: methods are defined on generic functions. It's an unfortunate accident of history that defmethod defines a generic function when one doesn't exist. 21:17:58 if I understand it, defgeneric kindof creates a name and signature, that is specialized by methods? 21:18:03 I'm using the words all wrong there 21:18:03 something that imo leads to more bugs than convenience 21:18:10 ltbarcly: basically, yes. 21:18:28 so it's bad mojo to just do defmethod 21:18:31 I take it 21:18:32 but I'd really encourage you to always use defgeneric first and treat all instances of 'automatically defining generic function' as highly suspect. 21:18:49 It's bug-prone, but perfectly legal. 21:19:18 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:19:18 having a defgeneric also makes it clear where you should start when changing the 'signature' 21:19:24 -!- uselpa [~uselpa@83.99.17.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:19:36 and let you put a docstring on the function. 21:19:37 TDT: I think you can have quicklisp check distributions other than the one. 21:19:39 whereas with defmethod, the first method evaluated is the one that determines the lambda list congruence for all other methods. 21:19:48 method docstrings are not directly accessible, you must find the method first. 21:20:10 which can actually be more restrictive than what you want the genfun to be, iirc, but I can't remember what case it was. 21:20:21 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:41 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@99-130-100-63.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:42 I think it was something to do with &key enforcing your defmethod's kwargs, even when your defgeneric should be just (foo bar &key) 21:21:07 plus, defgeneric leads you to think of CLOS in terms of protocols, as opposed to the 'behavior' of classes. 21:21:09 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:22:39 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:07 -!- uselpa_ [~uselpa@83.99.17.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:09 any tricks to getting the sbcl/slime debugger to be more informative? 21:23:24 Bike: yeah, digging around a bit, in the quicklisp/releases.txt, you have the listing of resources. Probably could just edit that file. Kinda hackish, though. A better solution may be to have the script auto checkout into the dists/quicklisp/installed/* area. Would be better if I could create a dists//* and pull stuff there. NOt sure if Xach looked into this kinda use case. 21:23:29 robot-beethoven: (declaim (optimize debug)) 21:23:44 Bike: but thinking that maybe I'm overengineering a "problem" that really isn't much of a problem. 21:23:49 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:23:53 TDT: that last sentence is what I meant 21:25:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:26:36 sykopomp: where do you put that -- what's the scope of it? 21:26:48 robot-beethoven: put that at the top of one of your files 21:26:57 presumably wherever you think the bug is. 21:27:09 I put (declaim (optimize (safety 3) (debug 3) (space 0) (speed 0))) in all my lisp rc files. 21:27:41 what types of things does safety do? 21:27:56 Prevents (aref (vector 1 2 3) 44) to blow up things. 21:28:16 CL implementations are allowed to be as fast and silly as gcc. With (safety 0). 21:28:46 -!- ed_g [~chatzilla@67-5-162-87.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:29:16 ok, so I went with pjb's (:method) syntax and that looks good to me, now, I previously had functions (now I need to track state that I don't want to be global, so I converted to using clos and methods) and I have something like (mapcar 'method (blahblah)), this now complains because 'method needs 2 arguments where the old function only needed one, is there a common pattern here? 21:29:32 I guess I want to say I'll curry it, but maybe there is a less verbose way 21:29:50 curry is verbose? 21:29:51 ltbarcly: why are you defining methods that aren't specialized? 21:30:06 it is specialized I guess 21:30:12 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:30:12 ltbarcly: on T? 21:31:14 I'm not sure what you mean, but I think if I say it would be legal to do (method 'instance (car (blahblah)) that will explain the situation 21:31:32 or rather (method instance (car (blahblah)) 21:31:41 you're not calling a method 21:31:48 you're calling a generic function. 21:31:55 I don't understand the difference then 21:32:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:32:38 genfuns are the actual functions. Methods are code that genfuns execute when you call them with certain arguments. 21:32:55 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:11 anyway, you obviously need to call a function with the correct number of arguments, generic functions are no exception. :) 21:33:14 yea, so I have both a generic function and a method called method 21:33:17 well, not really 21:33:21 it's really called visit 21:33:38 so I should have said (visit instance x) 21:33:44 yeah :) 21:33:46 except I have a list instead of x and I want to map visit 21:34:07 (mapcar (lambda (x) (visit instance x)) things) 21:34:21 (you can curry that easily, but this is the standard CL version) 21:35:03 huh, i'm surprised in the 5.8 billion built in functions that CL has there isn't a mapmethodcar that does that. I know I can just make it no need to remind me :) 21:35:25 visit? Are you implementing the visitor pattern? 21:35:39 gfs don't necessarily have an instance as the first argument, that wouldn't make sense 21:36:05 Ralith: oh my. That would be funny, wouldn't it? 21:36:19 not really, no. 21:36:28 ltbarcly: I am curious about Ralith's question. 21:36:54 ltbarcly would benefit from knowing better, though. 21:37:04 Ralith: you have a poor sense of humor. 21:37:10 perhaps! 21:37:26 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:38:38 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@82.208.57.182] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 21:39:38 hmmm... i'm still not getting helpful debug info... the backtrace basically consists of ("foreign function: #x418B6F") 21:41:19 ltbarcly: ? 21:42:03 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:17 orangepnut [~cody@fl-184-4-188-163.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:18 -!- orangepnut [~cody@fl-184-4-188-163.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:43:18 orangepnut [~cody@unaffiliated/orangepnut] has joined #lisp 21:44:01 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:44:10 bobbysmith007: your cl-csv/data-table/symbol-munger proved to be quite useful to me, for frobbing data from a csv and then using pomo to update a table. 21:44:40 -!- orangepnut [~cody@unaffiliated/orangepnut] has quit [Client Quit] 21:45:09 library trifecta 21:46:00 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:46:29 -!- lcc [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:48:29 -!- TDT [~user@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:48:53 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:52:15 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 21:52:24 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:55:30 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:00:18 orthecreedence [~kvirc@70-36-236-51.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:38 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:03:22 clhs: make-instance 22:03:59 clhs make-instance 22:03:59 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_ins.htm 22:04:11 ah thanks ;) 22:04:29 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@2602:306:37fe:67f0:41f3:49f4:dbc:94b3] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:05:08 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:06:28 steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:07:43 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:07:55 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-220-149.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:08:31 Aiwass [~user@188.26.200.154] has joined #lisp 22:10:25 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-131-125-57.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 22:10:40 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:12:34 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:13:40 sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:35 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:16:08 deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:18:28 Bike: " i meant, he used a "higher math" thing in an unexpected application." I imagine that only really happens in academia, not industry 22:19:59 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:20:19 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 22:22:58 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 22:24:07 RebelBunny: Feynman used some clever math at Thinking Machines I believe. 22:24:21 pavelpenev: But this is all academia 22:24:35 working for a company is academia? 22:24:51 Thinking Machines Corporation is a company that made super computers 22:24:55 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:25:36 wikipedia says "was" :) 22:25:54 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:06 I like the space between "super" and "computers" 22:27:28 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 22:27:39 but yes, he used nontraditional calculus-based methods to figure out things about chip layout, as I recall 22:30:21 Bike: I'm too lazy to find the story, but I remember his peers didn't believe his solution was any good, so they went with a less optimal one. 22:30:41 haha. 22:31:15 It's a discrete problem, what the hell are limits doing in my discrete math :D 22:31:37 you can do a lot with generating functions. tons of fun. 22:31:48 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:31:49 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 22:35:42 is it possible to combine :before with :method in a defgeneric? 22:35:51 Sure. 22:36:10 (defgeneric m (x) (:method :before (x) (print 'before)) (:method (x) (print x))) 22:36:44 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:37:18 yea, for some reason emacs wants to indent that funkily 22:37:19 oh well 22:38:33 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc08-o.oracle.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:38:47 -!- vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@99-130-100-63.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:38 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.179.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:43:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:46:45 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:48:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:55:08 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-19-235.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:55:15 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:55:42 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:57:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:58:34 -!- agumonkey [~agu@208.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:01:28 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:02:47 atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:44 -!- PuffTheMagic [u3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oqnuywxfcppstlqo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:03:44 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qbuvjmtcbcvaeerm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:03:46 -!- rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xndzfexntrgqluok] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:56 -!- NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-noclouslhfkvenvs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:11 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:04:27 sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:31 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tlxokdhhxdcqzrqo] has joined #lisp 23:05:16 is it possible to have a generic function with the same name but different numbers of arguments? or specialize on optional arguments? 23:05:33 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:05:41 or, if I'm asking too many questions, is it possible to look this up somewhere? the hyperspec is a little sparse on some of these details :/ 23:05:55 ltbarcly: check clhs 7.6.4 23:06:34 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:06:40 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:07:12 for example, I can't find any mention of :method in the clhs 23:07:13 sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:28 It's in the defgeneric entry. 23:07:33 clhs defgeneric 23:07:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defgen.htm 23:07:46 oh, I see it now 23:07:51 "Each method-description defines a method on the generic function." etc etc 23:09:15 so if I'm reading it right, if I want to have 2 methods in a generic function, where one takes an additional argument, that argument must be a keyword argument? 23:09:18 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:09:58 It could be optional and ignored. 23:10:10 Or you could have them both take &rest and do parsing yourself. 23:12:07 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tlxokdhhxdcqzrqo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:09 or if the things they do are too different, or are similar in name only, have them be different GFs named by symbols in different packages, like foo:gf and bar:gf 23:14:13 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:15:02 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1ab3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:17:24 -!- kjbrock [~user@63.110.51.11] has left #lisp 23:17:33 -!- Aiwass [~user@188.26.200.154] has left #lisp 23:18:01 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:21:59 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 23:24:48 dnolen [~user@tekair-nat.tekserve.com] has joined #lisp 23:25:36 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:26:14 -!- orthecreedence [~kvirc@70-36-236-51.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:28:52 orthecreedence [~kvirc@70-36-236-51.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:22 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:34:09 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:35:06 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rakmfcssjfhfyxcg] has joined #lisp 23:35:33 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:37:19 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:26 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:37:48 sabalaba1 [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:00 -!- dnolen [~user@tekair-nat.tekserve.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:38:52 rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wnecvrvxgnzjsngn] has joined #lisp 23:41:31 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:41:46 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:43:53 PuffTheMagic [u3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rnhfyjuiblywabqz] has joined #lisp 23:44:16 is how I create a unix domain socket in lisp 23:45:41 -!- atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving on a jet plane...] 23:48:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:52:05 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:53:13 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:56:02 NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sokinqygvfigiahl] has joined #lisp 23:57:10 PuffTheMagic: i believe standard lisp doesn't offer this, but you may want to check out the iolib project, which supports the "local-socket" type which abstracts unix domain sockets