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00:53:04 (as in, the version string from the defsystem form) 00:53:59 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:54:00 (asdf:component-version (asdf:find-system :cffi)) 00:54:02 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:55:01 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 00:55:31 thanks! somehow i didn't consider 'component-version', thinking it referred to files making up a system, not systems 00:55:38 perfect 00:57:32 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A3B36.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:57:52 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:59:51 -!- macdice [~user@46-65-10-191.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: (sleep)] 01:00:04 -!- dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:12 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.37] has joined #lisp 01:00:49 -!- mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable008.104-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:05:09 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:05:28 dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #lisp 01:06:30 pjb: why did you use AGPL for your RDP? 01:07:14 ltbarcly2: because GPL doesn't make sense and pjb is in love with forced freedom (i'm sorry pjb, i just couldn't not say it this way) 01:08:37 ltbarcly2: in all fairness, if you believe in GPL licensed code, you should probably go down the route of AGPL, GPL in itself seems to be based only on the indoctrination that it is a 'good' license. a giant industry of web services has boomed which basically circumvents the license. 01:08:47 well, saying "GPL doesn't make sense" is just begging the question 01:09:11 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:13 <|3b|> ltbarcly2: pjb uses (a)gpl for everything, and madnificent likes to complain about it 01:09:21 ahh, now that makes sense 01:09:34 ltbarcly2: i don't believe in the concept as it hinders bigger ideas, but let's explain the view of the GPL advicates instead. 01:09:51 <|3b|> madnificent: lets not :) 01:10:12 I'm totally familiar with the whole debate, so I think this is an agree to disagree situation 01:10:12 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:10:14 ltbarcly2: GPL tries to force that the source code be available for all applications. say that you like that. then the GPL doesn't force it for services, like web services. that doesn't quite make sense. AGPL fixes that. :) 01:10:32 |3b|: this argument isn't about whether or not i like the concept :) 01:10:40 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:40 <|3b|> it isn't about lisp either 01:10:40 ASP loophole, but it does make sense, but again, that's fine, lets not go into it 01:10:45 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483B406.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:29 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483AFDF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:12:32 if some sneaky bastard takes pjb's basic recursive decent parser, and somehow uses it in a website, I guess the GPL would deprive us of the improvements they made to it, but the AGPL will just make them use some other code, so you are out either way. Oh god, you sucked me in 01:12:37 I take it all back 01:13:37 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:13:52 ltbarcly2: no, AGPL will force you to free the source of your website (it's too late to back out). so it's the expected route. in terms of freeing code, it's the right move. 01:13:57 ltbarcly2: then again, you may want that 01:14:27 ltbarcly2: what are you writing? 01:15:19 a web service to parse code using very simple grammars. hahaha, just kidding. A toy language. 01:16:30 forcing people to free code when they never intended to is the opposite of anything good, especially if you 'get' them because they used some tiny library that they could have avoided without a lot of extra effort. This is the sort of crap that makes corporations freak out and not let employees use anything GPL 01:16:50 The code generated by parser generator is generally not owned by the owner of the generator. 01:17:16 pjb: I know, I was just curious about why AGPL, which seems like overkill for a parser generator, but I wasn't that bothered. 01:17:19 ltbarcly2: don't say people. There's a dichotomy here, between users and programmers. GPL and AGPL are made for users. 01:18:41 ltbarcly2: there's also a need of homogeneization. I cannot decide on a license for each byte of my code. So I standardize on AGPL. It's already painful enough that I have two small bodies of code under other licenses. 01:18:45 I'm strongly pro (a)gpl, I was just commenting that back-door freeing code by waiting for some unsuspecting rube to use an agpl library and then forcing them to open source all their proprietary work on some website is the sort of bad-faith action that causes GPL adoption to be much lower than it could be 01:19:05 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 01:19:09 The purpose is not general adoption. 01:19:13 which was what I think madnificent was advocating, but either way it is tangential to this library and the original question 01:19:21 It's to promote users' freedom.. 01:19:34 if GPL code is terrible and never becomes better, nobody's freedom benefits, right? 01:19:55 pjb: ( :X when you're user is the programmer, you don't give him much freedom :X ) 01:19:55 Exactly. Thankfully, in general GPL code is better. 01:20:01 because you don't gain freedom from having the source code and rights to something that is unusable 01:20:01 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:20:23 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:23 sabalaba [~Adium@2602:306:cfc8:8c30:ed94:9726:19aa:5817] has joined #lisp 01:20:32 hi 01:20:40 So lil is fleshing out 01:20:48 hi Fare! please talk about something lisp-related fast 01:20:59 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 01:21:03 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:21:18 Fare: what is lil? 01:21:21 If only there was a GPL version of not-X-Windows :) 01:21:42 Fare: http://www.international-lisp-conference.org/2012/speakers.html#sec-4-4 01:22:03 I've completed a new intro to interface passing style -- see section 2 of https://github.com/fare/lil-ilc2012/ 01:22:17 will work on section 3 & 4 this weekend. 01:22:19 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Rstarting IRC client] 01:22:35 Fare: have you looked at ContextL with respect of interface passing style? it seemed to me that you were duplicating 01:22:37 Lisp Interface Library 01:22:42 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-133-89.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:47 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 01:22:51 hopefully your one stop shop for CL datastructures 01:23:13 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:33 madnificent, I admit I haven't. I suppose it could be used for bridging between IPS and OO style. 01:24:00 But IPS is static binding to ContextL's dynamic binding, I suppose. 01:24:15 But yes, I should discuss that in the Related Works. 01:24:55 I should probably cite it, too 01:24:58 pjb: what would be the best way to hack in 'deindent' for a whitespace significant language? into RDP? 01:25:04 Fare: it passes an implicit first argument (well, multiple ones can be there) for the calculation. it kind-of angered me that i couldn't easily point to it in discussions i read online (as i was way too late). but since you're still working on it, i highly recommend reading it. 01:25:31 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:47 Fare: afaict your approach varies a little bit (but i haven't looked at it thoroughly, so i may be completely off, i didn't need it at the time), but it could be interweeved with ContextL. 01:26:02 ltbarcly2: you would have to write your own scanner. 01:27:59 Yes, I'm going to read it again -- but, once again, the whole point of contextl is dynamic binding, when the whole point of IPS is static binding. 01:28:16 I think the two could combine very well. 01:28:21 Fare: that seems to be the AOP vs COP approach 01:28:33 Fare: i hope i'm wrong though, then i'll be able to learn some new new stuff 01:29:02 Aren't AOP and COP similarly dynamically binding there? I don't know. 01:29:28 madnificent, but yes, your remark is very relevant. Thanks a lot! 01:29:52 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:30:46 Fare: not all AOP is dynamic binding. 01:30:51 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:31:01 anyway, if someone is willing to review sections 1, 2 and 5 - that'd be great. 3&4 are still only vague plans. 01:31:13 Fare: for as much as i know of it, aspects are configured at the launch or configuration of the application. contexts can be manipulated live. there are some bugs in it, and ashamingly, i haven't found time to solve them, so you shouldn't try to really use it, but github.com/madnificent/COPP contains, IIRC some examples of ContextL which may still give you a clearer idea of what it is about. 01:33:57 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:35:06 madnificent, thanks 01:35:31 that's reading for this weekend 01:36:22 Fare: again, it may not execute, but the general idea is there nonetheless. i still have to fix mon_key's bug report 01:37:01 justicefries [~justicefr@72.54.105.13] has joined #lisp 01:38:06 ok 01:38:23 While we're at it, simple API poll 01:38:38 lil currently has only maps, and a first-key-value gf 01:38:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:38:57 cl-containers has only containers, and a first-element gf 01:39:12 I'd like to unify the two, and am thinking of calling it first-entry. 01:39:55 does that make sense? 01:40:12 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 01:40:28 -!- justicefries [~justicefr@72.54.105.13] has quit [Client Quit] 01:41:04 I suppose that long term, if lil has users, I'd want to migrate all the current functionality from cl-containers to lil, then reimplement most of cl-containers as an emulation layer on top of lil 01:41:26 or maybe just encourage people to use the new API 01:41:35 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:42:47 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.37] has joined #lisp 01:45:38 -!- pk1001100011 [~pk@public-gprs405114.centertel.pl] has quit [Quit: 4 am :o] 01:46:44 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:31 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 01:47:44 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:49:25 -!- aslan69 [~aslan69@c-75-71-21-183.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: aslan69] 01:51:07 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-125-133.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:51:22 Fare: i don't know enough about it to comment sensibly 01:52:06 -!- dof [~xonox@dynamic2-250-014.usc.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:52:30 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 01:53:03 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:55:20 lggr 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[~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 03:13:10 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:16:13 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:17:28 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-3-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19:13 kotg_luvin [~karneisad@wsip-70-165-31-237.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:45 read 'land of lisp' recently and fell in love with clisp 03:22:23 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:23:02 kotg_luvin: clisp is a common lisp implementation, i assume you mean lisp. the term lisp, stands for Common Lisp, these days. 03:23:24 kotg_luvin: and most people on this channel love lisp too :) welcome 03:23:52 gotcha 03:23:58 yeah I didn't know it was just referred to as lisp 03:24:34 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:24:58 kotg_luvin: can't blame you 03:25:08 anyways, i'm off. enjoy your stay 03:25:15 thanks 03:25:20 have a good night/afternoon/morning 03:25:28 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:25:29 night/morning 03:26:20 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 03:27:23 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 03:29:03 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.153.57.90] has joined #lisp 03:30:55 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:31:04 -!- jjkola [~androirc@212-226-48-226-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Quit: quit] 03:31:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:31:42 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-3-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:33:06 justicefries [~justicefr@c-76-25-39-46.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:38 -!- justicefries [~justicefr@c-76-25-39-46.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:36:04 -!- Fare 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[~dmiles@72.19.53.38] has joined #lisp 03:56:57 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@72.19.53.38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:56:57 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:57:13 lyhux [3b3ac940@gateway/web/freenode/ip.59.58.201.64] has joined #lisp 04:01:55 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:02:58 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc04-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 04:03:09 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 04:03:14 p_l [~pl@089-101-222210.ntlworld.ie] has joined #lisp 04:03:19 -!- p_l [~pl@089-101-222210.ntlworld.ie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:03:34 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:03:35 DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@75-164-248-214.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:12 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 04:08:37 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:09:27 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:19 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-218-68.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 04:10:31 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.153.57.90] has joined #lisp 04:12:25 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:13:14 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 04:14:31 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:15:29 I'm getting a weird compile error/possible bug in SBCL. Does "The value * is not of type SEQUENCE." during IR1 mean anything to anybody? 04:15:55 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:16:27 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.18.210] has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 04:19:12 It works fine in CCL. 04:19:22 <|3b|> what is 'it'? 04:20:32 a function: http://paste.lisp.org/+2TR4 The error seems to happen before undefined function warnings etc 04:24:22 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:24:26 <|3b|> looks like sbcl bug to me 04:24:44 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-218-68.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:09 <|3b|> shorter version: http://paste.lisp.org/+2TR4/1 04:25:52 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:26:20 Thanks. 04:27:05 -!- lyhux [3b3ac940@gateway/web/freenode/ip.59.58.201.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:29:23 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.37] has joined #lisp 04:32:36 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:32:41 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:32:52 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-218-68.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 04:32:56 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:33:04 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:33:29 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-218-68.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:42 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 04:33:49 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 04:34:54 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:36:16 <|3b|> actually, i guess don't need the LET, IF or second CHAR either 04:36:19 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 04:38:31 <|3b|> Bike: looks like using AREF instead of CHAR doesn't trigger the problem, if you want a workaround 04:39:36 -!- lof [~xmike@dynamic2-250-014.usc.edu] has left #lisp 04:39:40 |3b|: I just switched to ccl for the time being, was more concerned about there being a bug 04:44:03 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:45:49 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:48:54 infiniteone [~infiniteo@c-76-126-91-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:11 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 04:51:29 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:51:56 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:52:18 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 04:54:29 tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.18.210] has joined #lisp 04:55:15 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:55:25 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1168074916.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 04:56:36 asvil [~asvil@178.120.28.95] has joined #lisp 04:56:57 sabalaba1 [~Adium@108-252-136-195.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:05 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:57:37 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:58:16 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@2602:306:cfc8:8c30:ed94:9726:19aa:5817] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:01:35 -!- infiniteone [~infiniteo@c-76-126-91-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobiuWpdkd&fin2qu3R] 05:06:06 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:07:52 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:10:10 superflit [~superflit@65-128-38-151.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:36 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:13:48 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 05:15:23 VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 05:15:29 ivan-kan` [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 05:17:24 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:18:33 I want to redefine a method whenever a class changes. is there a (portable) non-macro version of (defmethod), or do I have to use (eval) here? 05:19:02 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:19:16 flip214: in the MOP there's add-method and so on 05:19:18 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:21:34 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:22:14 Bike: thanks; add-method wants a GENERIC and a METHOD, what should I pass as method? I have the function contents as a form, does COMPILE help me here? 05:22:23 do you have an example, by chance? 05:23:18 There's an example in the MOP book here: http://www.alu.org/mop/concepts.html#defmethod It's not pretty... 05:23:30 alvis [~user@tx-184-6-179-166.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:24 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:26:50 danlentz [~danlentz@107.226.179.79] has joined #lisp 05:27:25 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-3-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:27:34 thanks a lot. perhaps I'll just do (EVAL (DEFMETHOD ...)) 05:27:41 that's portable 05:29:35 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-3-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:17 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:34:27 flip214: the MOP is about as portable as extensions get. 05:35:16 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-119-85.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 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[~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 06:58:20 -!- tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 06:58:57 mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-142-105.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 06:58:57 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-142-105.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Changing host] 06:58:57 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:58:57 tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:33 <|3b|> Bike: are you likely to file a bug report for that any time soon? 07:00:27 |3b|: sure, I'll do it right now. 07:01:01 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:01:14 <|3b|> ok, it seems to be a combination of 1.0.30.25 and 1.0.32.31, not sure exactly what is happening though 07:03:14 Er, what are those? 07:03:20 <|3b|> sbcl versions 07:03:30 oh, I see. 07:04:18 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:04:26 -!- tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has quit [Quit: gone] 07:05:34 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:07:09 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.221.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:09:53 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc07-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 07:10:18 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:10:50 |3b|: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/1050768 07:11:00 <|3b|> cool 07:12:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:13:37 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:13:44 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:14:39 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 07:14:48 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:16:10 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:19:04 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 07:19:06 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping 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lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:30:59 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-248-189.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:33:24 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:33:59 -!- logand [~user@e178126094.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:34:10 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-76-117-5-156.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 07:34:56 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 07:34:56 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-hyjclvvkgzhezmol] has joined #lisp 07:35:03 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:35:19 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.111] has joined #lisp 07:35:54 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 07:37:45 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:37:46 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-248-189.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 07:37:59 bitonic [~user@027cae25.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 07:39:51 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:39:54 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 07:41:38 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:01 I hope more distributions use the conventions used by Debian with regards of Common Lisp sources and programs. I don't know if they are good yet, but only having to setup autotools once would be awesome. 07:44:35 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:44:48 didi: most people here ignore the operating system for all things common lisp 07:45:10 H4ns: I know that. 07:45:33 didi: join the crowd :) 07:45:45 Hehe, nope. I think this is important. 07:46:05 DDR_ [~chatzilla@d66-183-119-229.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:38 didi: i rather write portable programs than rely on all operating systems provide a sane environment 07:46:55 H4ns: That sounds nice. 07:47:24 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b1da5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:46 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-114-7.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:48:51 -!- DDR_ is now known as DDR 07:49:36 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:49:36 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:50:10 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 07:50:32 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:51:30 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:52:19 -!- cfy is now known as void2 07:53:19 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:55:12 p_l 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[kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:01:05 -!- Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:01:12 Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 11:01:52 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:02:09 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@31.45.222.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:05:46 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:08:12 Bummer. The grovel apparently doesn't like long strings in (cc-flags ...). 11:08:57 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 11:09:09 Joreji [~thomas@85-127.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:10:21 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-63-206.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 11:13:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:14:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:15:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:18:03 -!- Guest17139 [~attila_le@87.247.56.175] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:19:40 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:19:48 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:19:49 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:21:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-127.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:22:00 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:20 VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 11:22:36 Joreji [~thomas@85-127.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:23:15 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:23:36 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:23:51 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 11:23:51 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 11:24:05 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 11:24:48 Levent [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-111.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:25:47 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.175.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 11:28:42 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:29:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-127.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:30:39 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:30:45 Joreji [~thomas@85-127.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:32:40 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:33:22 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 11:33:23 VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 11:35:40 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@208.Red-79-148-144.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:53 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:36:20 abeaumont [~abeaumont@208.Red-79-148-144.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-127.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:39:59 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:40:36 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it.] 11:40:37 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:41:12 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:41:29 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:46:11 NikolaiDante: As I said in #emacs. Check http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/ and http://www.sbcl.org and you should be on the right path 11:46:37 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-3-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:52 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:48:13 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@188.181.106.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:48:44 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 11:49:10 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 11:49:11 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:50:32 Okay, Cymew. Thanks again :-) 11:52:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:53:54 Joreji [~thomas@85-127.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:55:23 -!- Levent [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-111.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:55:27 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-63-206.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:55:58 snearch [~snearch@f053002095.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:56:47 Levent [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-111.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:57:12 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:59:40 -!- justicefries [~justicefr@c-24-9-171-36.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:59:58 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:00:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-127.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:31 Joreji_ [~thomas@85-127.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:01:27 -!- Levent [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-111.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:06:15 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-133-89.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:07:26 np 12:07:37 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:08:13 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 12:09:28 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has quit [Quit: bbl] 12:09:50 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [] 12:10:05 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@85-127.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:10:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:10:55 Joreji [~thomas@85-127.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:12:11 -!- Viaken_ is now known as Viaken 12:13:03 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:13:18 eni [~eni@82.230.88.217] has joined #lisp 12:14:31 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:15:28 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 12:15:52 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:15:56 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 12:16:03 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: http://www.redeclipse.net -- Fast-paced online FPS] 12:16:12 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:17:19 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 12:17:29 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:19:31 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-hyjclvvkgzhezmol] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:19:57 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:20:34 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-3-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21:04 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:21:13 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:21:47 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 12:21:49 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:21:58 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:23:09 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:23:16 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-63-206.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 12:24:15 RJ3000_ [~uid1@109.231.228.146] has joined #lisp 12:25:10 VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 12:25:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-127.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:25:31 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 12:25:56 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-fjpxritvrkrzfbxs] has joined #lisp 12:27:14 -!- `fogus|away is now known as `fogus 12:29:17 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:37:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:37:49 Guest54711 [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-111.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:39:55 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-fjpxritvrkrzfbxs] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:40:11 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-rwdvssqdrnjzphbd] has joined #lisp 12:43:41 justicefries [~justicefr@c-24-9-171-36.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:51 -!- justicefries [~justicefr@c-24-9-171-36.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:45:21 Hi guys! Is there any difference in using (find #'(lambda ) ) inside loop, or (find (lambda ) )? 12:45:45 mrSpec: in almost all contexts #'(lambda ...) and (lambda ...) are equivalent 12:46:01 they are equivalent in your case. the difference is personal preference regarding readability. 12:46:12 -!- Guest54711 [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-111.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:46:13 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-99-179-44-103.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:17 i once preferred #' and now i don't 12:46:23 ok. so its not true that "Each time you call find, you call a lambda that creates a closure which is used to find element" when I dont use #' 12:47:01 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:47:09 mrSpec: that doesn't seem false to me, but i'd have to see more context to say. 12:47:38 oki, I'll create example. 12:48:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:49:44 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-218-68.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:49:44 -!- gigamonkey_ is now known as gigamonkey 12:50:09 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has left #lisp 12:50:13 danlentz [~danlentz@c-76-117-5-156.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:51 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 12:55:03 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-209-176.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 12:55:18 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:56:47 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 12:58:31 mrSpec: see also http://stackoverflow.com/questions/908427/why-use-with-lambda 12:58:40 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:59:50 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:00:05 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-154-111.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:01:13 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-76-117-5-156.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - 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http://linkinus.com] 13:23:50 -!- Borbus [borbus@85.17.58.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:23:51 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 13:24:37 -!- uniwiz [~uniwiz@unaffiliated/uniwiz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:25:07 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:25:07 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:25:35 uniwiz [~uniwiz@nexusnode.org] has joined #lisp 13:25:37 z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:37 -!- z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:25:37 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 13:26:07 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:33 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 13:27:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:27:46 One important difference between #'(lambda ) and (function (lambda )) and (lambda ) is that the first is a reader macro. If it's the standard reader macro, then it's (cl:function (lambda )). If function or lambda are not cl:function or cl:lambda, then it's a big difference. 13:27:54 -!- uniwiz [~uniwiz@nexusnode.org] has quit [Changing host] 13:27:55 uniwiz [~uniwiz@unaffiliated/uniwiz] has joined #lisp 13:28:17 The consequence is that when you use the package CL-STEPPER instead of CL, then the functions introduced by #' won't be instrumented. 13:30:13 sorry for AFK. I'm back 13:30:32 billstclair [~billstcla@p-74-209-25-4.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:33 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-74-209-25-4.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:30:33 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:31:41 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:31:57 the simpliest example is "(loop for i to 3 collect (mapcar (lambda (x) (* x 2)) '(1 2 3)))" 13:32:17 newcup, thanks for link! 13:32:35 It is clear for me now. 13:32:39 Borbus [borbus@85.17.58.106] has joined #lisp 13:34:11 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:34:32 pjb: that would be more important if you couldn't also change what #' means as you wish 13:34:52 It's more impractical to change the reader macros. 13:35:25 That said you may want to do that to deal with cl:function too :-) 13:38:28 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:42:00 bitonic` [~user@host86-162-27-94.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:14 and now for the awful golfing technique: (let (#'42) (+ . #'5)) (: 13:43:39 perfectly conforming. 13:44:50 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:45:47 i think h4ns would give that code a gold star if seen in code review 13:46:52 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has joined #lisp 13:47:01 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 13:47:06 hm? 13:47:16 The worse is that (let ((function 42)) (+ function 5)) may print like that in some implementations. 13:47:27 and it's conforming. 13:47:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:47:44 s/may print/prints/ 13:48:15 -!- bitonic` [~user@host86-162-27-94.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:49:31 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:50:24 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:51:02 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:27 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-147-233.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:19 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:56:27 justicefries [~justicefr@c-24-9-171-36.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:36 dmx` [~dmx@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:41 I'm really confused. How the hell could that even work!? 13:57:58 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:58:13 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 13:58:22 The first argument to LET is a list of variable bindings, and it accepts a function? 13:58:53 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-comspbswhetaahsn] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:59:10 Cymew: #' is replaced by the reader with the form (FUNCTION ) 13:59:11 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:00:51 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:01:51 Is that an acceptable input as "list of variable bindings"? That's what amazes me. 14:02:03 Ah, so `function' is a local variable now? 14:02:14 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-3-189.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:02:27 Cymew: what's wrong with (let ((function 42)) ...)? 14:02:36 I see.. 14:02:53 -!- dmx` [~dmx@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:03:03 pkhuong: mind if i post that on lisptips? 14:03:05 My scheme brain didn't parse that correctly. Just a minute and I'll switch... 14:03:20 Xach: it's not a tip. At best, it's a pitfall. 14:03:22 The dot is intriguing. 14:03:22 Xach: not at all :) 14:03:27 DGASAU` [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 14:03:37 I advise against publishing bad examples on lisptips. 14:03:37 Cymew: you sometimes see that sort of output from naive pretty printers 14:03:47 Boggles the mind 14:04:08 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-rwdvssqdrnjzphbd] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:04:19 ccl and clisp do that. 14:04:24 pjb: I think it's important to understand what is happening. 14:04:30 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053002095.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:04:37 It took me a few cycles to do it 14:04:37 Yes. But is it in the chart of lisptips? 14:04:38 pjb: It's not an example of something to adopt 14:04:49 pjb: Yes. 14:04:49 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:05:19 I think that'd better for a FAQ or a CL pitfals. 14:05:27 Cymew: (macroexpand-1 '(let (#'42) (+ . #'5))) helps. 14:05:32 I find. 14:05:52 i find it instructive 14:05:54 pjb: Better to hide the truth and use (function ...) everywhere. 14:05:57 No need to macro expand: let is a special operator normally.(print '(let (#'42) (+ . #'5))) or just '(let (#'42) (+ . #'5)) 14:06:06 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.28.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:07:04 Ah, that's better. 14:07:36 didi: but again, ccl and clisp print it as (let (#'42) (+ . #'5)). 14:07:38 So #' is even higher up that quoting. 14:07:42 than* 14:07:49 didi: no 14:07:51 didi: no need for macroexpand. Just quote it and let the printer have at it. 14:07:52 it's a reader macro. Same as ''''x 14:08:06 pkhuong: let a smart printer have at it 14:08:06 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:08:33 With a lot of explaining it can serve as an edge case showing the interactions between the reader reader macros and the printer. 14:08:40 Xach: s/smart/sufficiently hacked up/. I don't think there's a general solution. 14:09:06 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:09:14 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:37 Xach: and the "smart printer" part is arguable, because it's data after all (so it should print as function IMO). It's more a DWIM thing there. 14:10:20 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:13 iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:11:45 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:12:21 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:12:45 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 14:13:07 razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has joined #lisp 14:13:13 hi 14:13:58 so, dynamic scope is like having a global var in C and use it within any code block? it will return the last value you setted it 14:14:09 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:14:17 C doesn't have dynamic variable. It's like nothing in C. 14:14:28 and lexical scope is like declaring a variable within a function in C and trying to use it outside it (it will give an error if it's not defined outside that function) 14:14:56 but, isn't the effect similar in that case? 14:15:03 razieliyo: neither of the two binding types exist in c 14:15:19 Lexical scoping is the same in C and in CL, yes. But in C you couldn't have local function, so no closures. Until recently. 14:15:21 H4ns: well, there is lexical scoping in C. 14:15:44 pkhuong: to the extent that closures do not exist in c, yes 14:15:53 They do now. 14:16:26 As part of some official standard, or just an extension provided by some compiler(s)? 14:16:29 H4ns: there is no need for higher-order functions to demonstrate the difference between lexical and dynamic scoping. 14:16:35 VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:16:41 pkhuong: ok, granted 14:16:49 razieliyo: please listen to pkhuong 14:16:59 razieliyo consider this, it would redirect standard-output to string stream. (with-output-to-string (str) (let ((*standard-output* str)) (format t "hello"))) 14:16:59 pjb: re. my parsing program you helped me with the other day, it turns out most of the time was spent doing I/O. 14:17:25 nice R/T 14:17:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:17:44 er.. missend. 14:18:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:18:31 jfe: that's usually the case, hard disks are slow compared to modern memories and processors. 14:19:04 okay, so lexical scoping is because this doesn't work http://paste.lisp.org/display/131879 14:19:05 jfe: that's why you should have several gigabyte of additionnal RAM, so that the system can load and cache the files. 14:19:24 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:19:34 razieliyo: no, it's orthogonal. 14:19:50 razieliyo: your (setq x 5) is implementation dependant. We don't know what it does. 14:20:15 razieliyo: this does not work because it is illegal. you wrote (let (nil) x) and that is not legal because nil cannot be used as variable name. 14:20:24 razieliyo: the error you get is because you've named a variable NIL, and NIL is a constant (whose value is NIL). 14:20:30 lol, ok ok 14:20:31 sorry 14:20:31 razieliyo: you cannot bind constant variables in CL. 14:20:39 razieliyo: lexical scoping is what you're used to in C or other algol-likes, logically extended to first-class functions. Dynamic scoping re-binds variables in the LET form's dynamic extent (while the form is "on the stack"). The value bound to a dynamically-scoped variable depends on the topmost binding on the stack. 14:20:40 () reads as CL:NIL. 14:21:19 razieliyo: read http://www.informatimago.com/articles/usenet.html#Variables 14:21:49 Mazingaro [~Tetsuja@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:21:55 -!- justicefries [~justicefr@c-24-9-171-36.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:22:35 razieliyo: this might be helpful too: http://www.flownet.com/ron/specials.pdf 14:23:10 thanks really, I'm having a few headache with this 14:25:25 so just something before I start reading, let's see if I got some fundamentals 14:25:27 http://paste.lisp.org/display/131880 14:25:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:25:44 No, you still don't get it. 14:25:52 You cannot assign to undefined variables. 14:25:52 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:01 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-163-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:26:02 the first, when it sees check call, it goes where the function is defined and gets the binding within that block 14:26:09 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:16 You can define variables with defvar, defparameter, let, let*, lambda, defun, defmacro, defgeneric and defmethod, that's all. 14:26:26 the second, because it's dynamic, it just returns the last value y-var has been given 14:26:51 It's not the last value, it's the current (at that time) value. 14:27:02 Just read the references we gave you! 14:27:06 okay okay, sorry 14:27:17 I just wanted to see if I got something about this 14:27:34 Your dynamic scope code is correct. Your lexical scope section is rubish. 14:28:08 You could write: (let ((x 4)) (defun check () x)) (check) (let ((x 2)) (check)) 14:28:11 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:28:59 and compare with (declaim (special *y*)) (let ((*y* 4)) (defun check2 () *y*)) (check2) (let ((*y* 2)) (check2)) 14:29:42 fold [~fold@66-169-204-12.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:29:54 -!- razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30:13 razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has joined #lisp 14:30:19 sorry, I messed this 14:30:22 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:30:34 can you give me again that resources? or is there any log from the channel? 14:31:08 I got pjb link, but lost the pdf 14:31:40 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:31:58 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:32:53 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:06 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:33:17 razieliyo: http://www.flownet.com/ron/specials.pdf 14:33:36 razieliyo: there are a couple of public logs. 14:33:38 minion: logs 14:33:39 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 14:33:39 VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:34:26 nice 14:34:41 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:35:16 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-163-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:36:06 I was trying pjb example and f***d it up with key combos, so emacs got closed 14:36:42 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-163-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:36:57 razieliyo: It still loves you, though. 14:37:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:38:23 didi: oh sure 14:38:37 didi: I still love him too 14:42:18 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:46:08 booguie [~booguie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:42 I understand this is a very very trivial question but I can't seem to be able to assign a value to a variable; like the output of (length "foo bar") to x 14:46:52 why doesn't (let x (length "foo bar")) work? 14:47:13 danlentz [~danlentz@c-76-117-5-156.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:00 Because let takes a list of bindings. 14:48:04 clhs let 14:48:04 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_let_l.htm 14:48:07 read the syntax. 14:48:21 remote: what made you think it would? 14:48:35 like, where did you even get that impression? 14:49:11 here http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/variables.html 14:49:13 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-030-054.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:49:38 remote: the syntax written there is: (let (variable*) body-form*) 14:49:50 which I have no clue what it means 14:49:57 I'll just keep reading my tutorial 14:50:00 Why is there a character #\x after "(let " in your code? Clearly it should be a character #\( !!! 14:50:03 and try not to get off track ;-) 14:50:30 it just seemed something simple to do 14:50:35 probably is but ... 14:50:46 remote: you don't seem to have the foggiest notion of syntax. 14:50:55 How can you hope to write programs if you don't? 14:50:56 yeah I don't 14:51:06 I'm not, I'm reading PCL 14:51:24 "The following LET form, for example, binds the three variables x, y, and z with initial values 10, 20, and NIL: (let ((x 10) (y 20) z) ...)" is nothing like what you tried. 14:51:32 -!- ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-wftydrhzirkctrxk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:51:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:51:45 hah 14:51:53 setf is what I wanted 14:52:35 No, it is not. 14:52:50 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:52:55 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:53:01 (setf x (length "foo bar")) 14:53:09 then x contains 7 14:53:20 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:53:20 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:53:31 anyway I'm not trying to do anything here other than get a feeling for clisp 14:53:45 for lisp or CL. 14:53:46 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:53:51 cl 14:53:58 clisp is like gcc. You don't get a feeling for gcc, you get a feeling for C! 14:54:21 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-030-054.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:25 remote: Use `let'. `setf' does things that you don't know about yet. 14:55:01 remote: clisp is a common lisp implementation. try to talk about lisp when you mean Common Lisp (it's the current name of the same thing). if you talk about clisp, people may assume you're talking about the specifics of the CLISP implementation. 14:55:29 ok 14:55:59 remote: nothing more than terminology :) 14:56:08 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:13 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 14:57:18 pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:58:14 pjb: the other day you mentioned i could use a displaced array as a window to a string, instead of allocating space for a substring. could you reiterate how to do that? 14:59:16 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-76-117-5-156.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:59:37 jfe: see http://lisptips.com 14:59:52 jfe: also: 14:59:52 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:59:55 minion: logs 14:59:55 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 15:00:29 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 15:00:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:02:08 _d3f [~d3f@nl1.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 15:02:58 cool, thanks. 15:03:07 ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-faduddufdrjqkngr] has joined #lisp 15:03:13 is a displaced array cheaper than allocating a substring? 15:03:14 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 15:03:14 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 15:03:23 depends on the size of the substring 15:03:37 I would use subseq for substring less than ~12 characters. 15:04:04 cheaper also includes computing power 15:04:05 But in the case of the cursor in the lisptip, there's no allocating, and no copying of character. 15:04:14 The cost is in the indirection involved when you access the cursor. 15:04:18 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:06:48 -!- Mazingaro [~Tetsuja@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:08:55 AlbireoX`Laptop [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.37] has joined #lisp 15:08:58 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:03 jfe: it depends on a lot of things. 15:10:03 pjb: creating the displaced array causes consing though, yes? 15:10:14 It's done once. O(1). 15:10:29 Ah yes, in the example it updates it 15:10:41 -!- bitonic [~user@vm-shell1.doc.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:18 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:12:59 -!- alvis [~user@tx-184-6-179-166.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:13:17 alvis [~user@tx-184-6-179-166.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:39 -!- am0c [~am0c@119.192.52.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:14:52 merimus [merimus@nat/google/x-wpufppupjgaqdcdq] has joined #lisp 15:15:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.58.156] has joined #lisp 15:15:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.58.156] has quit [Changing host] 15:15:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:15:16 If anyone is interested, Ravenbrook has done a new release of the Memory Pool System GC: http://mailman.ravenbrook.com/pipermail/mps-discussion/2012-September/000118.html 15:15:38 Hmm... how might permissions be implemented in a lisp machine OS? 15:16:38 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-163-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:03 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-163-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:18:13 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:20:09 merimus: namespaces? 15:21:16 deff. need some way to keep a random user from changing the scheduler... 15:21:35 merimus: random user? they are single-user systems. 15:21:46 Indeed... they "were" 15:22:15 Hypothetical... if someone were writing one right now. 15:22:53 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:22:56 likely to be de facto if not de jure single user 15:23:16 it can be more than hypothetical: take Movitz, and implement a permission system. 15:24:08 ArmyOfBruce: sadly, copyleft. 15:24:16 pjb: what happened to motiz? 15:24:21 movitz, even 15:24:24 pkhuong: Talk to them. They're happy to do exceptions. 15:24:39 nothing 15:24:45 it stays and rots away 15:24:55 it stays and waits for someone to write a lisp OS. 15:25:14 oh 15:25:22 well it stays and awaits someone to write a multi-lingual env in it! 15:25:30 ArmyOfBruce: SBCL is MIT/PD. The gap seems a tad wide. 15:25:33 I'm considering how it would be implemented. 15:25:51 pkhuong: Well, I have an exception from them for OpenDylan that drops clause #3 when used with OD. 15:26:19 Also, no threads on darwin is sad. 15:26:37 kanru [~kanru@kanru.info] has joined #lisp 15:27:28 pkhuong: I'll probably fix that for them in the coming couple of months if they don't hit it first. 15:27:48 merimus: consider L4's Address Spaces and using IPC instead of direct calls 15:28:05 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has left #lisp 15:28:09 Was looking at l4 actually... 15:28:23 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.111] has joined #lisp 15:28:24 ArmyOfBruce: good stuff. 15:28:42 pkhuong: And with some luck, the license may actually change in the coming months  still pushing that with them. :) 15:28:51 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-197-168.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:02 -!- TruthFairy [~juan@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:17 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 15:30:05 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-206-179.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:14 postfuturist [~sgoss@chirashi.kavi.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:22 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@31.45.222.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:30:45 Why so many people ask about lisp OSes, and shy away from implementing one? 15:31:00 ghast [~user@host191.200-45-151.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:31:01 pjb: Because making an OS is a pain in the arse? :-) 15:31:04 I'm not shy at all 15:31:21 they say it's all slow! 15:31:23 it's not! 15:31:36 procs are so fast who cares if it is slow? 15:33:08 merimus: the ~10-100x difference in user <-> kernel transitions for darwin and linux means we probably still care. 15:33:57 -!- paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has left #lisp 15:34:13 sambio [~cc@190.57.227.107] has joined #lisp 15:34:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:36:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.111] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 15:36:57 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.111] has joined #lisp 15:40:36 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 15:42:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:45:16 justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:20 -!- justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:45:36 justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:23 can someone give me an use case senario where you want to know if the the optional argument of a function was defined by the caller or if it's initialized by its default? 15:48:09 when (f 'default) is different from (f) 15:48:34 pkhuong: well, that's Mach for you... ;) 15:48:46 remote: disambiguating NIL is sometimes important 15:50:02 no for example (defun test (a b &optional (c 10) ... vs (defun test (a b &optional (c 10 c-supplied-p) ... 15:50:28 I can't think of a senario where you want to know if the default comes from the default or if it's provided by the caller 15:50:34 (defvar *list-of-fruits* '()) (defun list-of-fruits (&optional (list nil listp)) (if listp (setf *list-of-fruits* list) list)) 15:50:56 (list-of-fruits '(apple orange)) (list-of-fruits) (list-of-fruits '()) (list-of-fruits) 15:51:38 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:51:54 err, I mean (defun list-of-fruits (&optional (list nil listp)) (if listp (setf *list-of-fruits* list) *list-of-fruits*)) 15:52:06 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@82.208.57.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:54:32 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-163-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:15 remote: don't use it. Then one day you'll find that feature still available, waiting for you to marvel at its usefulness. 15:55:47 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:52 ok :) 15:55:56 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-163-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:57:05 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 15:58:09 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 15:58:18 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:58:25 TruthFairy [~Ren@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:58:53 ^pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:01:18 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:02:15 wwliu [~user@58.62.81.24] has joined #lisp 16:03:14 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b1da5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:03:19 -!- merimus [merimus@nat/google/x-wpufppupjgaqdcdq] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:04:08 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 16:04:59 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:05:05 ignas_ [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 16:05:52 VieiraN_ [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:05:54 I can vouch for that. 16:06:01 -!- ignas_ is now known as ignas 16:06:06 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:06:32 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-163-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07:58 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-163-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:08:26 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:08:38 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b044f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:46 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 16:08:54 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 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[~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Client Quit] 16:22:59 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 16:24:12 vwvwvwv [~vwvwvwv@rrcs-76-79-198-130.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:30 -!- VieiraN_ is now known as VieiraN 16:25:30 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:27:02 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:28:29 bitonic [~user@host86-162-27-94.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:49 -!- eni [~eni@82.230.88.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:33:27 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-206-179.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:35:20 pjb: re your blog post, did you measure the speed difference for a displaced array? 16:36:56 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:37:08 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-014-150.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 16:37:50 flip214: I did not. 16:38:06 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] 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[Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:01:22 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@201.230.213.236] has joined #lisp 17:03:32 do most people work with slime? 17:03:49 yes. 17:03:56 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 17:04:15 vim w/slimv 17:04:18 remote: or with slimv 17:04:32 jjkola [~jjkola@212-226-42-59-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 17:04:38 but, in case that's what you meant, both groups use swank on the lisp side. 17:04:41 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:05:00 (which is available for ruby, R, several lisps, clojure, js, etc.) 17:05:13 so learning an editor with swank support is a good bet. 17:06:57 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:07:00 i'm already an emacs user 17:09:05 oh, I'm sorry (for you ;) 17:10:00 and emacs is sorry for you 17:10:01 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 17:10:02 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping 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[~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:55:01 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-172.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:56:18 -!- justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:58:05 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:58:29 -!- chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9-rc1] 18:59:04 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-218-194-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:03:38 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:04 what's "the have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too style of programming" ? 19:04:27 hunger driven programming 19:05:03 It's a style of programming where you copy any data before modifying it. 19:05:20 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:05:56 (let ((cake "fruitcake")) (let ((eaten-cake (copy-seq cake))) (replace eaten-cake "eaten") (list cake eaten-cake))) => ("fruitcake" "eatencake") 19:07:35 noy1 [~user@h-72-33.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 19:08:05 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:09:13 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:10:31 pjb: seriously? 19:10:46 I'm quoting http://gigamonkeys.com/book/macros-standard-control-constructs.html 19:11:19 p_l|backup [~pl@web1.rootnode.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:47 maybe gigamonkey knows 19:12:12 -!- ^pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:12:31 what do you guys use lisp for? 19:12:48 pretty much everything that's not small script 19:13:00 I mean, are there domains of application where it is more commonly used or its use is very broad? 19:13:03 blogging software, scrobbling+music player, 6502 emulation, ... 19:13:09 remote: It 19:13:15 It's a general purpose language just like any other. 19:13:28 But better. 19:13:31 yeah but I never hear about it anywhere 19:13:41 remote: have a look at http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Meta-Programming-Techniques-for-Java 19:13:58 remote: just like you never hear about prolog, despite it probably still being part of windows 19:13:59 oh! 19:14:29 (at least once upon a time, windows NT network configuration used embedded prolog system) 19:15:13 remote: I use it for prototyping/general development of my research projects where Perl is likely to be too slow (since C is a pain for exploratory programming) 19:15:16 remote: for better or worse Lisp's history made it somewhat obscure language. And that's not a good description either 19:15:29 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 19:16:05 remote: I use it in a logistics chain simulation situation. for production wokr. 19:16:07 work 19:16:30 remote: and I use it as an engine in a budgetting (finance) application 19:16:35 also production level work. 19:16:44 bitonic [~user@host86-133-198-78.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:17:41 *Xach* uses it for wigflip.com toys 19:18:04 and since wigflip pays, it's also production-level work? :P 19:18:22 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:18:24 remote: in the latter, common lisp is used to create a domain specific language, which a user can use to specify calculation models. 19:18:33 p_l|backup: :-) 19:19:06 ehu: where were you working? That example might be a way to slip Lisp into my new workplace 19:19:21 what I mean by production level is that real users use the application; not just prototyping. 19:19:24 I recently used it to scrape data from a website and run stats tests and a computationally-demanding bootstrap method on the data. I got useful performance, and interactivity and robustness meant I could easily adapt the program to unexpected input and to run unforeseen analyses. 19:20:36 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:20:38 p_l|backup: the first application is in use by a postal delivery organization, the other within a bank and the controlling department within the ict branch of an investment company. 19:20:43 yeah, closure-html and cxml-stp with drakma are pretty sweet combo for scraping... I remember some of then-popular Ruby libs (~2009) failing me horribly in that, while lisp stuff ended up being much better 19:20:51 ehu: nice 19:22:22 p_l|backup: yea. to ease deployment in the financial services industry, I use ABCL/JVM. 19:22:43 ehu: btw, any thoughts on porting Clojure-style java interop to ABCL? Or at least a better documentation (or pointers where to look for) on that. Clojure's proxy mechanism and java calls are pretty sweet, and make it pretty easy to create classes extending java ones 19:22:50 the other tool is compiled with ACL and deployed as a stand-alone .exe (64-bit, Windows 7/XP environment) 19:23:37 p_l|backup: I've not studied their code, but it should be easy enough to create something alike in ABCL. 19:24:18 ehu: well, it looks mostly like exercise in macrology, but I'm not familiar enough with ABCL at the moment to implement it myself 19:25:39 the thing is that it makes it pretty easy to implement a java interface or inherit from a class and let java use it (without writing any java code) 19:27:51 well, it's definitely something to look into soon. I know alessio (astalla) worked on it for a while. 19:28:05 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:29:31 p_l|backup: http://jfli.sourceforge.net/ isn't that what Rich Hickey used to work on? 19:32:49 hmm... some of that code might be reusable, I guess 19:33:13 fsvo reusable. See CPL license. 19:33:51 hmm 19:34:53 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:34:53 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:35:02 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:35:24 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:03 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:37:25 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37:48 danlentz [~danlentz@c-76-117-5-156.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:08 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:15 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:42:30 ISF [~ivan@189.61.221.122] has joined #lisp 19:43:07 bumblehead [~duko@static-71-177-221-121.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:33 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:46:46 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:49:38 Mazingaro [~Tetsuja@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:49:41 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-76-117-5-156.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:50:06 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 19:51:55 jerrystar [~chihungyu@static-71-177-221-121.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:36 -!- jerrystar [~chihungyu@static-71-177-221-121.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 19:54:28 justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:55 -!- `fogus [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:56:30 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:57:18 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 19:57:32 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@201.230.213.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:58:00 -!- booguie [~booguie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:00:42 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.141.165.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:07:11 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:07:30 VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-231-123.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 20:09:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:14:30 booguie [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:35 Brucio-8 [~Brucio-8@xdsl-78-35-163-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:15:50 Joreji [~thomas@85-127.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:16:42 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:18:46 -!- Brucio-8 [~Brucio-8@xdsl-78-35-163-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:20:58 homie [~levgue@78.35.163.149] has joined #lisp 20:21:07 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:21:21 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:35 Brucio-8 [~Brucio-8@xdsl-78-35-163-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:21:56 Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.141.165.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 20:22:39 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:51 -!- Brucio-8 [~Brucio-8@xdsl-78-35-163-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:26:11 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:26:36 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:26:43 gerred [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:01 Brucio-8 [~Brucio-8@xdsl-78-35-163-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:29:14 infiniteone [~infiniteo@c-76-126-91-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:05 -!- justicefries [~justicefr@50-76-131-66-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:30:09 -!- gerred is now known as justicefries 20:31:21 -!- Brucio-8 [~Brucio-8@xdsl-78-35-163-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:33:04 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 20:33:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:34:04 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:27 -!- infiniteone [~infiniteo@c-76-126-91-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:40 if i want to read input from the user, but allow multiple lines, that is, (read-line) except it reads newlines & uses a different keystroke to complete the read? 20:36:35 the old unix convention was to terminate the line with single . 20:36:38 or use C-d 20:37:19 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 20:38:59 francogrex [~user@109.130.74.55] has joined #lisp 20:39:31 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:39:35 dude, i installed my emacs+co and sbcl on win7, then set my mcclim up, and fired beirc, but even tho i didn't yet copy my .beirc.lisp over there it opens channels which i open normally here over in linux....weird 20:39:50 as if some cruft was left behind..... 20:40:09 and the backend Graphic-forms is crappy too 20:40:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:40:25 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:30 i had to give gdi set_miter something a double value not float in order to get it up.... 20:40:53 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:04 i'm only reading double-values .... 20:41:08 wbooze: :| 20:41:26 graphic forms are afaik dead 20:41:55 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.115.244] has joined #lisp 20:42:22 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-197-168.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:42:56 Brucio-8 [~Brucio-8@xdsl-78-35-163-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:43:14 what do people use thereover in win ? 20:43:38 it works only partially, buffer pop-up, but generic function calls fail etc.... 20:43:53 debugger is working, but i can't even scroll down there... 20:43:53 wbooze: did noone tell you that mcclim is dead? 20:44:03 they did they did 20:44:03 wbooze: no? then let me do it: mcclim is dead. 20:44:13 especially on windows :-| 20:44:16 who is the new king ? 20:44:19 wbooze: you're flogging a dead horse. 20:44:28 Bike [~Glossina@65-100-34-240.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:30 wbooze: commonqt is the hots here 20:44:33 eheh 20:44:37 oh 20:44:48 but would require me what todo ? 20:44:50 wbooze: CommonQT will also work better on windows than half-done graphic forms 20:44:53 install qt over on win ? 20:45:00 ah ok 20:45:04 wbooze: get someone to give you a set of binaries 20:45:34 if you want to compile it yourself, make sure that you use the same compilers for Qt, Smoke and libcommonqt 20:45:34 hmm, i'll look, i dunno anyone ..... 20:45:50 (you can't mix MSVC and GCC) 20:45:57 (loop for line = (read-line) if (equal line ".") (return nil) collect line) 20:46:03 what is wrong with the above form? 20:46:08 ok 20:46:35 nydel: that you discard line and return nil? 20:46:35 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-137-28.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:08 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:47:24 -!- Brucio-8 [~Brucio-8@xdsl-78-35-163-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:47:36 Bike: i want to keep collecting lines until the user enters "." to stop it.. am i even close? 20:48:09 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:48:29 nydel: (loop for line = (read-line *standard-input* nil nil) until (or (null line) (string= line ".")) collect line) 20:48:54 that way, you'll also return from the loop when the user sends an EOF. 20:49:02 sykopomp: thank you that's perfect 20:49:06 :) 20:49:14 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-19-16.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:49:36 I don't know if it works, I haven't tried it. 20:49:55 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 20:49:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 20:49:55 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:50:23 nydel: note also that this means the . must be alone, in its own line. 20:51:05 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 20:52:02 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:54:42 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:55:09 -!- drl_ [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:56:22 sykopomp: got it 20:57:41 sykopomp: (format nil "~{~a~^~:c~}" (loop for line = (read-line *standard-input* nil nil) until (or (string= line "") (string= line ".")) collect line))) 20:58:06 (format nil "~{~a~^~:c~}" (loop for line = (read-line *standard-input* nil nil) until (or (string= line "") (string= line ".")) collect line)) #\Newline) 20:58:08 i meant. 20:58:20 nydel: check for nullness of line. 20:58:37 keep the (null line) check in there. 20:58:56 sykopomp: my clisp wasn't responding to blank lines with that.. any idea why that would be? 20:59:00 when read-line finds an EOF, it will return NIL 20:59:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:59:34 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:00:45 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 21:02:35 nydel: leave the string= line "" 21:02:39 but keep the (null line) 21:03:17 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:03:22 nydel: maybe it's clearer if you do (read-line *standard-input* nil :eof) ... 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[~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:54:32 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:54:59 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:57:55 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:58:57 -!- cola_zero [~cola_zero@www5116ue.sakura.ne.jp] has left #lisp 22:00:51 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:04:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:04:59 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:07:02 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:10:16 BimmyJones [~hercules@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:09 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 22:14:31 *p_l|backup* found today a novel that used Common Lisp code in cover image 22:14:39 Title? 22:14:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:14:56 I read one a long time ago with a girl hacker who was talking in sexps with her AI. 22:15:04 But I can't remember the title. 22:15:13 pjb: unfortunately I forgot the title, but the cover image was done by local publisher for the translation 22:15:49 so probably not the original one 22:15:51 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:16:23 -!- naiv_ [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-348-129.w90-41.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:18:10 using code for interaction with AI is interesting... but might be a bit heavy for the reader 22:19:01 No, I wrote "sexp". Like in expert systems, without a NLP layer. 22:19:08 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:19:16 yeah, I got it 22:19:28 code in this case wasn't about actual lisp code :) 22:19:38 (or any other source code) 22:19:52 More like English AST :-) 22:20:57 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:21:59 pjb: an idea I have in my drawer was to use logic sentences and bits of lambda calculus to point out the "AI" dialogue (not exactly that... but it was to show the otherworldness of the communication method) 22:22:34 pnq [~nick@ACA233A5.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:22:34 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA233A5.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:22:34 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 22:23:19 Well, that could be used indeed. (possible (use _ that)) 22:24:43 But one point of NLP is that you can attach "meaning" ie. you can encode/decode a richer frame configuration (conotations, implications, etc) from a NLP uterance than with a formal sexp. 22:25:01 see Loglan 22:25:03 So it may be worth it to use NLP even for inter AI communications. 22:25:11 Otherwise, they could just dump over their databases. 22:25:15 c_arenz [~chris@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 22:25:22 pjb: well, in this case, it was closer to direct database exchange 22:25:37 except one side was human, the other the ship computer 22:25:50 Hence the hilarity :-) 22:26:17 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:27:02 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:29:11 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.221.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:33:42 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.120.28.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:34:02 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:35:32 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.175.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:35:57 -!- BimmyJones is now known as shupfs 22:36:32 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 22:40:18 superflit_ [~superflit@65-128-38-151.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:21 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:42:22 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:42:22 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 22:43:20 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:45:19 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-133-198-78.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:47:21 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 22:47:28 kcj_ [~casey@118-93-77-143.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:50:17 kennyd [~kennyd@31.45.170.64] has joined #lisp 22:50:57 -!- c_arenz [~chris@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:52:40 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-030-054.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:52:42 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:52:56 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:53:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-76.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:54:09 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:46 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:55:54 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-127.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:02:03 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:02:25 -!- dmx [~dmx@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:03:09 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.141.165.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:03:59 Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.99.167.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 23:06:14 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:07:30 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:13 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:41 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:15:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:20:30 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 23:23:52 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:30:20 -!- robot-be` is now known as robot-beethoven 23:31:08 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:31:30 There was a short-story about a robot that took care of a baby that used sexp snippets to demonstrate it's decision making... 23:31:53 By John McCarthy I think 23:32:05 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 23:33:32 baby used sexp snippets? 23:33:44 the story used sexp snippets 23:33:46 http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/robotandbaby/robotandbaby.html 23:35:27 Should fmakunbound remove a gf's methods? I'm trying to redefine a gf with a lambda-list incompatible with its old methods, and I get errors about incompatible methods even after fmakunbound-ing the gf. 23:35:27 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:54 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:04 Bike: You can just unintern the symbol that the function is bound to 23:36:26 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75e4fa.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:36:33 long story 23:36:35 but any possible way of redefining a gf with an incompatible lambda-list will cause undefined behavior 23:36:44 No, wait, I made a mistake. Nevermind. 23:36:52 jasom: Wait, really? 23:37:39 Bike: yep; consider an implementation that does inlining and you will see why 23:37:57 huh. 23:38:27 In actuality, implementations will try to accomodate this to an extent inversly proportional to the aggressiveness of your optimization settings 23:39:24 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-3-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:47 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:41:29 ISF [~ivan@189.61.221.122] has joined #lisp 23:44:17 -!- superflit [~superflit@65-128-38-151.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:29 superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.80] has joined #lisp 23:46:49 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 23:46:50 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.80] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:47:23 superflit [~superflit@65-128-38-151.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:05 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:51:33 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:55:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:57:21 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:59:25 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]