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03:09:20 that's not usually how you do unit testing ... 03:09:55 if foo inherently uses bar, then test that bar works, then assume bar works for purposes of testing foo 03:10:13 if you can imagine foo doing something other than calling bar, then maybe it should be a parameter to foo 03:10:26 yeah, I suppose that's reasonable. 03:10:51 -!- agumonkey [~agu@201.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:11:13 (er, I had foo and bar backwards vs your description) 03:11:26 kpreid: yeah, but I followed ;) 03:11:59 you *could* redefine a function -- CL is designed for that to be a thing you can do, but it is a funny thing to do on a routine basis 03:12:03 I"m struggling to overcome my current at-work practice of having to local sub everything (in perl) to test some bits of functionality without side-effecting the hell out of it all 03:12:06 if you follow 03:12:53 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:12:58 ah, there is definitely no 'local sub' in CL - you have to explicitly change the fdefinition and then put the original back 03:13:17 right. 03:13:30 I figured as much. 03:15:07 Yuuhi` [benni@p54839299.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:09 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:17:28 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839E80.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:17:44 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:48 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.59.104] has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 03:26:16 tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.59.104] has joined #lisp 03:26:23 NichardRixon [~nichardri@cpe-066-056-223-100.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:27:44 I see. so, with the understanding that "I'm doing it wrong" 03:27:55 I can get the effect I'm after with something like 03:28:19 (setf (symbol-function 'foo) #'some-other-function) 03:28:33 and then setting it back when done. 03:29:58 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.56.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:31:35 andrewsw: if you only want to shadow a function lexically you can use flet or labels, but otherwise, yeah. 03:32:40 Bike: yeah, afaict that doesn't get me something like: 03:33:02 Are there uses where flet is preferred to labels? 03:33:24 Sgeo: it's sort of like let versus let*. 03:33:41 temporarily replacing some function call in another function. 03:33:56 *Sgeo* vaguely wonders if you can store a non-function in the function namespace 03:34:15 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.56.118] has joined #lisp 03:34:20 Yeah, that's not lexical. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that it's permissible for a compiled function not to care about your setf symbol-function. 03:34:36 hmm... 03:35:38 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:35:41 Sgeo: looks like setf symbol-function is defined only on functions, so (setf (symbol-function foo) 4) gets you into the exciting realm of undefined behavior. 03:38:00 seems to be working, though I need a better test. 03:38:11 I'm not sure how productive this path is though. 03:38:24 SBCL complains 03:39:30 andrewsw: http://www.cs.northwestern.edu/academics/courses/325/readings/lisp-unit.html may be of interest? 03:40:50 Bike, yes. I've been playing with fiveam 03:41:20 bertako [~bertako@nat2-34.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 03:43:07 -!- NichardRixon [~nichardri@cpe-066-056-223-100.ec.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:43:12 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:44:31 Bike, clearly, what should happen is that the Lisp environment launches a rogue written in CL. 03:44:37 roguelike 03:45:00 <|3b|> functions compiled in the same 'compilation unit' are allowed to call eachother without going through symbol-function, so might be inlined or use some other calling convention 03:45:46 Sgeo: there's one or two. a roguelike with emacs-style keys would be kinda nice. 03:47:29 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.138.242] has joined #lisp 03:48:23 What's that hypothetical system that blows stuff up on undefined behavior? 03:50:17 anything written in C 03:55:45 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 03:56:13 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:58:42 trbotime [~radicalca@66.96.251.117] has joined #lisp 04:03:40 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 04:05:21 Hhahahaha 04:12:58 kpreid: you're completely wrong. 04:13:05 flet and labels are local subroutines. 04:15:58 <|3b|> pjb: don't think that's what they were talking about 04:17:30 sounds like they were to me 04:20:16 Ralith: replacing global functions locally? surely not with flet or labels 04:20:17 *|3b|* read it as wanting something like dynamic scoping of functions, rather than lexical, to allow changing definitions of external functions being called 04:20:30 Definitely possible to do it with flet or labels. 04:20:41 stassats`: that depends what you mean by "replacing" 04:21:01 "lexically shadowing" is generally the useful thing to do. 04:21:05 <|3b|> *called by functions called in the lexical scope 04:21:14 <|3b|> useful but not what is being asked for 04:21:39 oh, I see 04:21:43 didn't read up far enough 04:34:24 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:47:03 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.59.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:49:44 -!- dan [~dan@gateway/tor-sasl/dan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:50:37 dan [~dan@gateway/tor-sasl/dan] has joined #lisp 05:01:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-223-94.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:03:40 -!- Vicfred [~Grothendi@189.228.28.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:08:46 mindCrime [~prhodes@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:20:32 -!- sambio [~cc@190.57.227.107] has quit [] 05:23:12 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:24:36 sellout42 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:40 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:28:50 z1l0g [~jgw@216.99.214.24] has joined #lisp 05:29:18 pulse40 [~pulse40@c-98-196-168-47.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:36 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:33:59 is it possible to specify LANG or basic locale settings in ~/.clisprc ? 05:39:59 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 05:50:41 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 05:53:51 Jubb [~ghost@68-191-42-6.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:05:11 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 06:05:56 pjb: why "you should not refer resources relative to source code"? 06:14:27 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:15:49 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 06:20:48 -!- ludston [~patience@CPE-58-166-72-98.lnse5.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:22:05 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-10.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 06:22:55 Because source code is not always installed along with the binary. 06:23:12 z1l0g: no, it's done in ~/.profile or ~/.bashrc 06:25:24 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:26:21 has anything like 'gaol' been done in lisp derivatives lately.. lisp with inline assembly for SIMD instructions 06:26:43 Not in open source. 06:26:54 GOAL sorry 06:26:55 n00b6502: do you mean goal? 06:27:16 n00b6502: many implementations allow using inline assembly of some sort 06:27:29 not all include all the simd instructions 06:27:35 i guess its not really inline assembly too, more like "intrinsics" in C 06:27:36 minion: cl-simd? 06:27:37 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``cl-simd''. 06:27:45 minion: bummer 06:27:45 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``bummer''. 06:27:52 minion: you are one 06:27:52 what's up? 06:28:07 see https://github.com/angavrilov/cl-simd 06:28:35 vei [~user@c83-254-165-239.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:29:29 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:31:40 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.180.126] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 06:32:26 pjb: so how do i let my file 'server.lisp' (in directory 'fun_project') access files relative to it (in directory 'fun_project/html/')? i've been using (asdf:system-relative-pathname), which works fine for me, but see that Xach recommends not depending on asdf as a utility library 06:33:12 use a configuration file, like any other program. 06:33:49 robot-beethoven: (defvar *html-path* (merge-pathnames "html/" #.(make-pathname :name nil :type nil :defaults (or *compile-file-truename* *load-truename*)))) 06:36:23 robot-beethoven: works with or without asdf, with C-c C-k or C-c C-k 06:36:28 anon119 [~bman@c-67-181-158-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:36:29 not so well with C-c C-c 06:36:54 How often is #. used? 06:37:30 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 06:37:44 Sgeo: twice a day after a meal 06:38:30 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:41:23 robot-beethoven: i use asdf:system-relative-pathname frequently when i know that i will always install sources with the programs that i write. 06:41:49 robot-beethoven: it works very well for me. 06:43:15 -!- Jubb [~ghost@68-191-42-6.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:44:18 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 06:45:01 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:46:52 pjb: i don't think my server is general enough to need to 'configure' that... the server and relative resources are custom designed for eachother. 06:47:52 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:48:12 pjb: does system-relative-pathname work for you ? 06:49:19 systems may not be present when the binary is installed. 06:49:54 stassats`'s solution is bad too. It hardwires a directory that may not be present or readable by the binary. 06:50:00 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 06:51:12 where did binaries come from? 06:51:38 From a system far far away. 06:51:54 And only the binaries came, not the sources. 06:51:56 no, how did they enter this discussion? 06:52:17 i thought it was about alternatives for asdf system-relative-pathname 06:52:39 stassats`: I have free will: I make binaries enter the discussions whenever I want. 06:53:03 if it works on my server, should i just ignore this whole question (until something stops working)? 06:53:15 robot-beethoven: totally 06:53:41 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 06:53:46 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:54:15 next thing you know, people will complain "hey, why did you hard-code `Earth', i can't run this on Mars!" 06:54:25 Exactly. 06:54:31 24 h days and things like that. 06:55:28 I think the read-time conditionals thing on *features* is cool but I wish it wasn't necessary. 06:55:42 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 06:56:05 what, not necessary because there are no implementation differences? 06:56:08 use compatibility layers, you won't see any *features* 06:57:24 Sgeo: what would you propose instead? 06:57:53 Ralith, a standard that didn't have undefined and implementation-defined behavior and that included things such as threading and network stuff. 06:58:13 Sgeo: i use threads and networking without any #+ 06:58:25 why should i care whether it's in the standard? 06:58:44 pathnames are in the standard and see where this got us 06:58:45 Sgeo: you want a standard that cannot be extended? 06:58:55 also, what stassats` said. 06:58:59 If you try to move to a Common Lisp that your compatibility layer doesn't support your code won't work. 06:59:19 and my code doesn't work on BeOS either! 06:59:32 it's a travesty! 07:00:00 Ralith: how one and a half users will live without your code? 07:00:21 if you have no space for implementation-defined behavior, you only have one implementation, no? 07:00:30 I feel for the pain they will endure in switching out of their VM. 07:00:47 Bike: there could be some observable differences 07:00:51 Bike: like performance 07:01:49 tch, that just means the cycle counts are underdefined in the standard 07:01:57 And which platforms the implementation runs on 07:02:24 but, it's clear that the suggestion is ridiculous 07:02:26 you sure? what COMPILE compiles to is implementation-defined, for instance. 07:02:48 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 07:05:22 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:05:27 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:05:28 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:06:40 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:25 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 07:08:43 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:12:06 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-176-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:13:33 ykm [~yash@124.155.255.198] has joined #lisp 07:13:59 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@91-119-229-92.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:06 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 07:14:32 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 07:15:29 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:17:12 -!- vei [~user@c83-254-165-239.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:18:03 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:18:10 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:20:19 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 07:23:59 -!- superflit [~superflit@65-128-36-89.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:25:06 superflit [~superflit@67-41-147-236.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:05 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 07:28:27 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:32:15 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 07:32:38 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:35:57 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 07:36:56 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:37:45 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:38:04 -!- pulse40 [~pulse40@c-98-196-168-47.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:13 pulse40 [~pulse40@c-98-196-168-47.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:19 -!- pulse40 [~pulse40@c-98-196-168-47.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:40:46 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:43:29 agumonkey [~agu@201.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:22 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:44:40 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 07:45:06 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:45:50 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:46:08 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-234-187.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:28 pjb: did you find a working solution to "WARNING: locale: no encoding 646, using ISO-8859-1" issue you had on Darwin? 07:50:24 pjb: re: clisp not seeing previously set locale settings 07:52:51 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 07:53:08 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:56:23 is it possible with a lisp-macro to make a something like a unix pipe for reducing brackets e.g. one function passes a result into the next 07:56:38 without nesting 07:57:13 it's possible, but it's not necessary 07:57:23 maybe a bit like $ in haskel or |> in F# 07:57:30 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 07:57:35 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 07:57:41 n00b6502, check out alexandria:compose, which is more like Haskell's . 07:57:43 it would only make the code unreadable 07:57:56 -!- Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:58:16 <|3b|> (reduce 'funcall ...)? 07:58:38 ah 07:58:47 *|3b|* suspects that probably doesn't actually work though 07:59:01 http://common-lisp.net/project/alexandria/draft/alexandria.html 07:59:06 Look for compose on that page 08:00:05 haskells is funny its addictive to type it out, but looks awful 08:00:47 having said that i suppose it makes sense... result = f1 ... $ f2... $ f3..... input 08:01:03 (funcall (compose (curry #'+ 3) (curry #'*2)) 5) should be equivalent to ((+) 3) . ((*) 2) $ 5 08:01:20 I think it's better Haskell style to use . 08:01:36 sure 08:01:37 So instead of f1 $ f2 $ f3 $ stuff, use f1 . f2 . f3 $ stuff 08:02:35 I do wish to note that Alexandria's compose and curry are both functions, not macros. 08:03:17 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 08:03:55 oops, my line of Lisp was wrong 08:04:03 (funcall (compose (curry #'+ 3) (curry #'* 2)) 5) 08:04:07 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:04:42 anybody with patches for cl-irc laying around: I'm taking time to commit patches to cl-irc. 08:05:00 hoping to prepare a release before the end of the year. 08:05:43 And the Haskell is better written (3+) . (2*) $ 5 08:05:53 I somehow forgot that the operator can go after 08:06:04 And didn't want to use before because then the correspondance wouldn't be so exact 08:06:36 ehu, I should start playing with cl-irc 08:06:52 I have a feeling it's higher-level than the irc library in tcllib, is it? 08:06:58 (Almost anything is higher-level) 08:07:55 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:09:22 Sgeo: if you want to see about the bot that I wrote with it, there's code here: http://lists.common-lisp.net/pipermail/cl-irc-devel/2010-January/000273.html 08:09:25 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:09:26 ouch. 08:09:35 here: http://www.hix.nu/svn-public/alexis/ 08:10:28 ehu, can I assume that that bug is fixeD? 08:10:30 *fixed? 08:10:52 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:11:20 Sgeo: yea. it was fixed yesterday in trunk. 08:11:29 the fix isn't in quicklisp yet. 08:14:09 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:28 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:15:44 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 08:18:39 benny [~user@i577A37D1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:29:59 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 08:31:56 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: enough for now] 08:33:37 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:39:12 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl5-132-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:42:19 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl5-132-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 08:45:02 -!- anon119 [~bman@c-67-181-158-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:50:59 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.180.126] has joined #lisp 08:54:48 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 09:02:08 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-208-98.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:06:04 r126f [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has joined #lisp 09:06:55 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:07:44 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:10:28 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 09:11:00 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:14:25 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:14:47 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-234-187.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:15:58 -!- ykm [~yash@124.155.255.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:24:20 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.237] has joined #lisp 09:31:47 martinolsen [~mro@1206ds1-sg.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 09:31:56 neoesque [~neoesque@122-116-18-21.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:07 -!- martinolsen [~mro@1206ds1-sg.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 09:32:36 martinolsen [~mro@1206ds1-sg.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 09:35:02 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: brb, adding lag detection. KindOne wants you to /msg jenni because jenni is another bot. I for one think you should /msg them both. Also Furry wanted to star in a quit message.] 09:35:39 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-194-97.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:35:46 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 09:36:42 kennyd_ [~kennyd@78-1-159-95.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:37:36 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:37:36 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 09:37:36 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 09:38:16 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@42.88.76.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:43:01 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc1-sgyl27-2-0-cust785.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:51:15 Kajtek [~nope@host-62-141-223-94.swidnica.mm.pl] has joined #lisp 09:52:53 -!- Kajtek [~nope@host-62-141-223-94.swidnica.mm.pl] has left #lisp 09:59:25 -!- italic [~em@unaffiliated/italic] has left #lisp 10:05:20 Hello. 10:05:34 Does anybody tried to interact with selection-clipboard using clx? 10:06:14 pocket [~masato@153.121.255.1] has joined #lisp 10:07:16 pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 10:10:08 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 10:11:08 sellout421 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:54 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:12:03 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:16:51 -!- Mathieu [~cicak@bb42-60-41-15.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:20:32 -!- bertako [~bertako@nat2-34.ghnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:24:06 theron_ [~theron@dslb-084-060-180-027.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:30 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 10:25:18 as [~jebajrang@115.245.161.113] has joined #lisp 10:26:36 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-115-39.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:26 eheh 10:31:56 now i have it http://paste.lisp.org/display/131103#1 10:32:58 your system doesn't allow to create files? 10:33:21 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-41-247.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:33:37 why the hell did you write the whole program in --eval? 10:33:40 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:34:35 -!- as [~jebajrang@115.245.161.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:36:10 nah i had that even before, it was the C part i didn't do correct yet..... 10:37:44 so, you did crazy things before and still do? very interesting 10:38:20 no i'm reading a C book and trying the execrcises, once in C and the other time in lisp.... 10:38:35 not all exercises but some..... 10:38:55 does the C book require to write all exercise at the command line? 10:39:05 err, no 10:39:47 but execution that way was faster, if i got into paren mismatch i'd open emacs and correct those there..... 10:40:07 so, you're into masochism, i get it 10:40:30 <|3b|> did someone break the CLHS links in lisppaste? 10:40:53 *stassats`* looks away 10:41:04 and the C part i was writing in emacs anyway..... 10:41:41 |3b|: they're not broken, just non-existent 10:42:25 wbooze: with SLIME it should be easier and faster 10:42:33 <|3b|> ok, 'broke the add clhs links to colorized CL code feature of lisppaste' :) 10:42:36 and you'd not have to quit emacs 10:43:09 i was mostly using copy-paste here, that's why i did in shell..... 10:43:10 *|3b|* guesses it probably just got moved without reconfiguring the var that tells it where the index is or something like that 10:43:39 i have a fast emacs! 10:43:44 lol 10:43:50 just like vim 10:44:53 lkjhg_ [d9fdf272@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.253.242.114] has joined #lisp 10:45:06 hello 10:45:34 is there some function to start a new repl loop at a certain point? 10:46:02 lkjhg_: not really 10:47:05 stassats`: : gahh 10:47:41 maybe something implementation specific (for ecl)? 10:49:03 |3b|: it's easy to fix, but the long restart process dissuades me from doing it 10:49:32 i can try to hot patch it 10:49:41 without breaking, because it's run with disable-debugger 10:49:54 lkjhg_: other than the debugger? What could be possible would be to preserve the repl in the first thread, and launch other things in other threads 10:50:36 phadthai: I don't have a repl in the first place 10:50:56 you could also have your own small custom repl loop 10:51:25 phadthai: I'm using ecl to embed lisp and now I wan't to play around in the list enviroment 10:51:53 hmmm, let me check a few things 10:52:47 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:52:50 read-eval-print loop :) 10:53:19 that's all the repl does, other than possibly setting up some extra restarts and handlers 10:53:39 puchacz_ [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:54:18 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:54:31 phadthai: I'm rather new to lisp, so I have to see, how to cough something like this up 10:54:41 phadthai: I had some hopes for a turn-key solution 10:56:13 hot-patching doesn't work 10:56:20 bummer 10:56:20 the ECL top level loop is in src/lsp/top.lsp I think 10:56:40 which could perhaps serve as an exemple, or parts reused 10:57:29 but basically, READ will read a form, and EVAL evaluate it 11:01:13 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 11:02:06 lkjhg_: i.e. (loop (print (eval (read)))) but you might want to add a custom *debug-hook* or condition handler, some restarts, a prompt, some help text 11:02:48 minion: prepl? 11:02:49 prepl: prepl is a REPL implementation, also known as a Lisp listener. http://www.cliki.net/prepl 11:03:00 nice 11:03:20 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:03:29 -!- pocket [~masato@153.121.255.1] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:04:23 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 11:04:32 well, if you don't want to piss users off, it's better to start the native repl of the implementation 11:04:54 or rely on swank and slime 11:05:14 *stassats`* waits for paste.lisp to restart 11:05:18 damn sloow 11:06:28 lkjhg_: it's possible for "detached" lisp software to still start swank in the main thread, which can then be connected to using emacs+slime, locally or remotely 11:07:41 phadthai, stassats`: thanks, I will take a look at it 11:07:43 |3b|: fixed 11:08:15 but trying to start the ecl repl is probably easiest 11:08:31 i should finally add pastes index and streamline pushing code to cl.net 11:08:46 that will make hacking it more easy 11:09:05 <|3b|> thanks, those links are nice to have :) 11:09:32 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl5-132-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:09:56 i have many ideas for improving lisppaste, but those bottlenecks are conductive to implementing them 11:10:45 it still needs to grow some functionality amputated during transition from araneida to hunchentoot 11:11:26 <|3b|> are the source links in http://www.common-lisp.net/project/lisppaste/ out of date? 11:11:43 yes 11:11:56 i plan to push everything to github 11:12:00 <|3b|> cool 11:12:10 i need to erase the passwords from it first 11:12:28 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 11:12:34 and the code still is such a mess 11:14:42 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.138.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:15:13 abeaumont__ [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:59 (si::top-level) seems to do the trick 11:17:03 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc1-sgyl27-2-0-cust785.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:17:10 -!- abeaumont_ [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:18:29 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:25:12 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 11:30:51 stassats`, oh hey, I saw a comment of yours on a blog post, and it confirmed what I was hoping (and checked) 11:31:00 http://dorophone.blogspot.com/2011/08/survey-of-syntactic-extension.html 11:31:18 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 11:35:29 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.138.242] has joined #lisp 11:46:12 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:46:44 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl5-132-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 11:47:56 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:48:00 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 11:50:36 DT``` [~ea@host113-87-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:50:55 -!- DT`` [~ea@95.234.194.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:53:14 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc1-sgyl27-2-0-cust785.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:58:14 frito [~androirc@cpc16-sotn8-2-0-cust290.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:59:49 -!- benny [~user@i577A37D1.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:00:32 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:13 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:06:43 -!- DT``` is now known as DT`` 12:08:08 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 12:14:08 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:47 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:14:55 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-48-73.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:17:15 -!- ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ipmonger] 12:19:42 -!- frito [~androirc@cpc16-sotn8-2-0-cust290.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:20:42 ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:15 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 12:26:15 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 12:30:03 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:37 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 12:33:02 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@122-116-18-21.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 12:33:11 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d858cea.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:57 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:36:26 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-48-73.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 12:36:43 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:37:14 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@host-95-199-3-73.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:37:40 Daisy [~Daisy@host-95-199-3-73.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:42:07 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@host-95-199-3-73.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:42:30 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:42:54 Is there any documentation or example of doing a non-blocking TCP connect with iolib? 12:53:42 pierre__ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-45-68.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:55:58 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-31-142.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:57:22 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:02:59 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:59 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:02:59 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 13:03:37 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:03:39 killerbo1 [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 13:03:51 johandesu [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:06:52 Could anyone tell me what is wrong with this piece of code? It's supposed to read a file until the end of it. http://paste.lisp.org/display/131111 13:07:59 <|3b|> probably want to exit the loop before collecting 'eof 13:08:12 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:09:21 I tested (loop for x from 0 to 6 collect x until (= x 2)) and that returned (0 1 2) so I'm pretty sure the loop exits. How else can I express this loop? 13:09:39 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 13:10:02 <|3b|> right, it returns, right after adding the EOF to the list 13:10:21 <|3b|> (loop for byte = ... until (eq ...) collect ...) would exit before collecting the EOF value 13:10:47 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:11:45 <|3b|> are we supposed to be finding some particular problem or just giving style advice? 13:12:36 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 13:13:08 A real problem. Because I get this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/131112 13:13:34 <|3b|> use the annotate button on lisppaste instead of making a new paste for related pastes 13:13:57 Okay, will do 13:14:04 <|3b|> is the file more than 128MB? 13:14:05 johandesu: the body's pretty much completely wrong. The standard implementation is (defun read-file (path) (alexandria:read-file-into-byte-vector path)) 13:14:27 <|3b|> or maybe bigger than 64MB? 13:14:50 <|3b|> sykopomp: i wouldn't call it completely wrong, if the files to be read are small 13:14:56 |3b|: It's 6.9MB. sykopomp: I'll use that instead then, but what exactly is wrong with my body? 13:14:58 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-021-246.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:01 -!- foocraft [foocraft@ibawizard.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:15:26 fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has joined #lisp 13:15:30 <|3b|> did you call it directly in the repl? 13:17:11 <|3b|> either way, a list is a fairly inefficient way to store octets, so that might be why you ran out of ram 13:17:29 Yeah, I just found two sbcl processes with 980MB of RAM usage each, killed those. Gonna re-try now 13:17:44 <|3b|> (SBCL by default will only use 1GB) 13:19:42 *|3b|* suspects it completed reading the file, but ran out of ram trying to print it or something 13:20:49 |3b|: Setting *print-length* would fix that, no? 13:20:59 <|3b|> if you set it, yes 13:21:04 or just (prog1 t (read-file foo)) 13:21:19 or (length (read-file foo)) 13:22:01 Okay, read it correctly and everything! Thanks guys 13:22:55 -!- fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:25:11 fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has joined #lisp 13:27:03 DT``` [~ea@host113-87-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:30:18 -!- DT`` [~ea@host113-87-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:30:44 DT`` [~ea@host113-87-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:30:49 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:30:49 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:30:49 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:30:49 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:30:49 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:30:49 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/ianmcorvidae] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:30:49 -!- magnific1ab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:30:49 -!- felideon [~felideon@184.170.255.36] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:30:49 -!- df_ [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:30:49 -!- drewc [~user@212.110.167.245] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:30:49 -!- basho [~basho@static.76.144.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:30:49 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:30:49 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:30:55 quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:34:12 -!- DT``` [~ea@host113-87-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:34:19 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-231-214.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:16 Sgeo: yes, that was a rather poorly researched blog 13:37:22 -post 13:37:59 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-115-39.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:40:53 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 13:41:06 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:23 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-143-139.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:57 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 13:46:07 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-231-214.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:48:34 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 13:51:08 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:51:20 kslt1` [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-145.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 13:51:29 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:51:51 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:52:59 -!- fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:53:04 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@42.88.76.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:53:11 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-143-139.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 13:53:30 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-143-139.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:52 sigjuice_: you create the socket then call connect :wait nil 13:56:48 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 13:57:09 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:58:27 SsvRrwQ [~user@24.68.50.61] has joined #lisp 13:58:53 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-143-139.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:00:11 -!- kslt1` [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-145.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:25 Aiwass [~user@188.27.186.114] has joined #lisp 14:00:39 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:01:10 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 14:01:18 when 2 macro call with different actual parameter , macro expansion will be compiled two times? 14:03:03 when 2 macro call with different actual parameter,there are two macro expansion will be compiled? 14:03:30 -!- Aiwass [~user@188.27.186.114] has left #lisp 14:03:37 yes, necessarily 14:03:57 (if the macro expansions are not different, then perhaps they should be a function instead) 14:04:58 but pjb said macro expansion compiled result in practise is cached....?? 14:05:03 <|3b|> even if they are the same expansion, the lexical context might change the meaning 14:05:13 ngz [~user@27.100.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:18 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-021-246.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:06:34 kushal [~kdas@114.143.162.124] has joined #lisp 14:06:35 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.162.124] has quit [Changing host] 14:06:35 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:06:35 <|3b|> macros must be expanded during compilation of code, so evaluating previously compiled code doesn't require expanding any macros 14:07:45 <|3b|> a given use of a macro might be expanded arbitrary number of times during evaluation of uncompiled code, or during compilation, or at other times (for example by editors or other tools) 14:09:48 BlastHardcheese [chris@pool-108-38-205-87.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:48 puchacz_ [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:09:48 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 14:09:48 magnific1ab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:48 felideon [~felideon@184.170.255.36] has joined #lisp 14:09:48 df_ [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:48 drewc [~user@212.110.167.245] has joined #lisp 14:09:48 basho [~basho@static.76.144.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 14:09:48 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:48 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:03 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pool-108-38-205-87.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:10:12 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 14:12:18 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:17 fe[nl]ix: The part that isn't clear to me is how to set up the IO handlers. 14:15:17 snearch [~snearch@p5797A8BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:09 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 14:16:35 sigjuice_: http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~psilord/blog/data/iolib-tutorial/tutorial.html 14:18:58 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:19:31 I am guessing I need both read and write handlers? 14:19:42 -!- pierre__ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-45-68.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:20:06 pierre__ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-107-221.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:21:18 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.180.126] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 14:21:38 The write handler to detect a successful connect and the read handler to receive data and catch errors like 'connection refused'? 14:22:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:22:51 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 14:23:40 Can a system where files can only be read from, not written to, be ANSI-compliant? 14:23:51 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:24:15 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 14:25:17 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Out of this 3D] 14:25:30 yes 14:25:40 why wouldn't it be? 14:26:01 all it takes is for the calls to open a file for writing to fail 14:27:52 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-129-200.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:19 fe[nl]ix: I have already gone over the tutorial. It mentions non-blocking connect/accept in the section 'Future Directions' 14:35:59 tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.59.104] has joined #lisp 14:36:35 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@187.10.241.67] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:36:50 -!- sellout421 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:37:47 sellout42 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:07 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:42:06 -!- pierre__ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-107-221.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:42:25 Daisy [~Daisy@host-95-199-3-73.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:42:27 ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.74] has joined #lisp 14:43:27 Is just a write handler sufficient to determine whether the connect succeeded or failed? 14:45:17 when my write handler fires and errorp is non-nil, is there a way to determine what type of error occured? 14:45:42 -!- snearch [~snearch@p5797A8BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:52:17 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-21-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 14:52:20 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:52:27 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d858cea.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:52:45 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-21-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:16 sigjuice_: (socket-option socket :error) 15:04:32 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:05:35 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:07:29 -!- abeaumont__ [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:07:46 abeaumont__ [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:20 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.166.35] has joined #lisp 15:10:48 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.166.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:10 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-166-55.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:38 So many things in Lisp that you sort of need to know are there. Right now I need &whole, and if I hadn't heard of &whole I would have given up 15:15:55 (Not even sure if &whole will work... is it acceptable in normal lambda lists?) 15:16:58 Wait, I don't think it's &whole I need 15:17:41 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@61.14.141.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:18:56 Here's the problem I'm having: My macro is making a function that is a thin wrapper around another function. 15:19:21 The macro accepts as a parameter somewhere the lambda-list. 15:19:25 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:51 jmcphers [~jmcphers@61.14.141.35] has joined #lisp 15:20:14 I want to pass in all arguments to the wrapped around function in the defun I'm making, yet want the made defun to have the lamba-list and not just &rest args for documentation purposes. 15:24:48 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:47 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-166-55.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:42 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:30:12 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 15:31:15 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-120-149.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:20 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:31:49 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-166-55.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:10 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 15:32:29 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 15:33:59 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:18 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-129-200.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:38:54 bitonic [~user@217.41.237.166] has joined #lisp 15:40:31 iocor [~textual@89-168-109-131.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 15:40:41 -!- iocor [~textual@89-168-109-131.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:40:41 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 15:41:05 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:41:06 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.138.242] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41:35 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.138.242] has joined #lisp 15:41:48 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-120-149.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:43:34 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:34 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 15:57:12 superflit_ [~superflit@75-166-71-7.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:13 -!- superflit [~superflit@67-41-147-236.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:57:13 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 15:57:21 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:58 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:58:35 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:59:09 sellout42 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:18 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 16:00:39 -!- abeaumont__ [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:43 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:01:16 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:01:20 abeaumont__ [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:26 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:26 [6502] [5e24deb2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.222.178] has joined #lisp 16:08:15 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.56.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:08:44 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-166-55.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:10:26 <[6502]> Hello. I've a forward declaration problem: I've a few locals (declared in a (let...)) and some of them are widgets that need to reference local functions (labels) in which the implementation needs to see all locals. I'm thinking to just making the let with all NILs then a labels form and then assign the locals the objects... is there anything better to do? 16:11:20 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:11:42 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:27 *Sgeo* vaguely wonders if there's a letrec implementation in CL 16:14:48 <[6502]> something like let-with-labels or labels-with-let :-D 16:16:34 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.138.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:03 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 16:17:05 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:28 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:28 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:17:28 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 16:18:55 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 16:19:16 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@host-95-199-3-73.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19:30 <[6502]> may be a let** that defines all bindings at the same time, with them visible in the value part and that also allows for example #'foo as the name 16:19:38 Daisy [~Daisy@host-95-199-3-73.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 16:19:44 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:21:31 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:21:31 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:21:31 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 16:23:31 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Client Quit] 16:23:54 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.59.104] has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 16:24:22 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@host-95-199-3-73.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:24:44 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 16:25:15 tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.59.104] has joined #lisp 16:26:52 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:55 iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:30:30 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:30 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:32:18 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 16:32:18 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:32:27 <[6502]> emacs wants to be too smart about indenting... it changes rules when in a macro and of course gets it wrong: (map ... ) forms are indented nicely UNLESS they're in ,(map ...) :-( 16:37:45 lkjhg_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/18280 16:40:58 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 16:41:20 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Client Quit] 16:44:35 <[6502]> Sgeo: http://paste.lisp.org/+2T62. 16:45:11 <[6502]> not common lisp but very similar (just symbol? instead of symbol-p probably) 16:45:34 What language is that? 16:45:56 <[6502]> Sgeo: JsLisp ... my toy lisp compiler targeting javascript 16:46:04 Ah 16:46:44 you also have MAP that doesn't take a return type, looks like 16:46:52 <[6502]> Sgeo: letrec is enough in scheme because it's a lisp-1 16:47:16 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:47:18 <[6502]> Bike: yes... there are no vectors (actually lists are javascript array, so what is missing is a cons-cell based list) 16:47:47 <[6502]> Bike: and push appends at the end (and it's a regular function, not a macro) 16:48:11 chenbing: even if macro expansions are cached by interpreters, and when they're done by the compiler, the same macro call can be expanded several times. 16:48:42 Also, macro can be expanded by other tools, such as editors. 16:49:13 Kuloto [~mro@201.2.pool.kuban.skylink.ru] has joined #lisp 16:49:39 Is there a way to change the lambda-list that SLIME will see? 16:49:49 Some setf thing that I can do to manipulate that? 16:51:42 *[6502]* doesn't really miss cons cells that much, but saying that to lispers you'd have to run for your life... 16:53:39 Sgeo: you can use com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp-sexp.source-form parse-lambda-list and make-argument-list. 16:56:40 [6502]: I didn't miss cons cells in clojure(which has them internally, but doesn't expose them to the programmer), but if all I had was js arrays, I'd definitely miss them :) 16:56:45 [6502]: guess you should run, because lisp is not about cons cells 16:57:12 <[6502]> stassats`: I know. I don' 16:57:46 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:58:47 pjb, that looks perfect 16:58:52 Thank you 16:59:08 pavelpenev: if you have arrays, it's trivial to implement cons cells. (defun cons (a b) (make-array 2 :initial-contents (list a b))) (defun car (c) (aref c 0)) (defun cdr (c) (aref c 1)) 16:59:10 Although I have to admit I'd rather use alexandria, but I guess it doesn't have it 17:00:15 <[6502]> stassats`: I know. I don't have cons cells at all in JsLisp, and it's still a Lisp (IMO). 17:00:41 And I also hate your package naming, no offense. 17:00:45 cmm- [~cmm@109.67.190.224] has joined #lisp 17:00:46 But the functions look useful 17:00:52 <[6502]> pavelpenev: why? I mean... I use them as just "vectors" (without attaching non-integer properties) 17:01:04 pjb: sure, I did that in python more than 3 years ago when I first encountered scheme. And I also did the lambda definition from the sicp video lectures where you make data structures "out of nothing" as they described it :) 17:01:07 -!- martinolsen [~mro@1206ds1-sg.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:03:05 [6502]: Maybe its not so bad, In general I avoid using js as much as possible, due to smugness. 17:03:11 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-209-201.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:03:25 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:04:08 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:04:09 <[6502]> pavelpenev: Js is not that bad. Syntax sucks. And some default semantic sucks. But as a target language for compiling is not bad at all IMO. 17:04:31 pjb, got some sort of error. Too lazy to figure it out, but I assume I now have a broken cesarium install. 17:05:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:35 *pavelpenev* used to be really impressed by code like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/131115 17:10:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:11:34 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 17:11:39 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:30 <[6502]> pavelpenev: You should read Let Over Lambda :-) 17:14:30 [6502]: it's in my queue 17:15:03 to see how not to write code? 17:15:40 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:24 <[6502]> stassats`: stassats` it doesn't matter. It's an eye and mind opener 17:19:20 [6502]: so were the sicp video lectures(the book is also on my queue), but the code was too anorexic, I'm still deprogramming myself from all the scheme. 17:21:49 <[6502]> pavelpenev: I think scheme is too minimal and tries to sell it as a feature. I think it's not. There's something inbetween lambda calculus and Java, neither of them is the ideal programming language in my opinion 17:22:02 -!- Kuloto [~mro@201.2.pool.kuban.skylink.ru] has left #lisp 17:22:10 pavelpenev: I corrected the bug, you can pull from gitorious. 17:23:07 pavelpenev: in a macro you'd use make-argument-list-form: (make-argument-list-form (parse-lambda-list '(a b &optional (o 1) &rest r &key k1 k2) :ordinary)) --> (append (list a b o) r) 17:23:28 pavelpenev: (make-argument-list (parse-lambda-list '(a b &optional (o 1) &rest r &key k1 k2) :ordinary)) --> (a b o :k1 k1 :k2 k2 r) ; but here, the keywords are passed in duplicate. 17:25:13 pjb: are you talking to Sgeo? 17:25:14 <[6502]> pavelpenev: also lisp-2 (and even better lisp-3) rocks IMO :-) 17:25:36 Aw, yes. 17:25:47 s/pavelpenev/Sgeo/ 17:26:08 protist [~protist@125-237-130-19.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 17:26:49 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27:25 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-131-121.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:21 Sgeo: so you will have to keep a clone of https://git.gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago.git in ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ until next month update. 17:28:56 [6502]: ideal language? are you talking about Erik Naggums BEOL and ENDOL? :) http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3069927028655845@naggum.no.html 17:28:57 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-10.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:45 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:33:21 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:35:07 <[6502]> pavelpenev: I just think that there is a "reasonable" level in which things are obvious and easy enough for humans. Programming should be hard because problems are hard, not because I'm forced with either rigid pre-made constructions or because the language wants to be too minimalistic for the fun of it. 17:36:39 -!- abeaumont__ [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:39:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-223-94.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:40:10 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:37 -!- protist [~protist@125-237-130-19.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44:07 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:52:42 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-234-236.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:55:00 -!- johandesu [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:16 -!- bitonic [~user@217.41.237.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:07:31 abeaumont__ [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:59 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:11:16 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:12:22 abeaumont [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:24 -!- abeaumont__ [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:16:47 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 18:17:51 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-229-92.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 18:20:25 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:20:30 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 18:21:49 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:30 Daisy [~Daisy@host-95-199-3-73.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:25:51 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:00 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@host-95-199-3-73.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:41 -!- mindCrime [~prhodes@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:30:06 Daisy [~Daisy@host-95-199-3-73.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:34:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.52.180] has joined #lisp 18:34:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.52.180] has quit [Changing host] 18:34:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:34:36 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@host-95-199-3-73.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:38:54 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:39:27 -!- iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:07 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:57:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:09:18 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13:37 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-234-236.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:14:38 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@189.123.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:18:15 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-233-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:46 jcazevedo_ [~jcazevedo@189.123.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:19:46 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@189.123.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:48 -!- jcazevedo_ is now known as jcazevedo 19:20:26 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-208-98.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:23:03 jcazevedo_ [~jcazevedo@189.123.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:23:26 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:48 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@189.123.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23:48 -!- jcazevedo_ is now known as jcazevedo 19:25:42 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 19:28:16 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-185-67.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:36:37 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@189.123.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:37:16 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: brb, ctcp parsing bugfix, I hope] 19:37:28 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 19:37:49 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@189.123.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:41:09 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 19:41:24 <[6502]> is it important to be able to copy and paste from a REPL session to a program? 19:41:52 <[6502]> I was thinking to display results as ";; ==> ..." 19:42:25 <[6502]> looks somewhat ugly, tho 19:43:20 *Xach* puts stuff like that between #| |# sometimes. 19:45:58 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:49:33 what's #| |# do? 19:49:36 *ebobby* noob 19:51:03 found it, thanks 19:55:25 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@91-67-244-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:37 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 19:57:34 jcazevedo_ [~jcazevedo@116.103.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:58:14 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@189.123.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:58:27 -!- jcazevedo_ is now known as jcazevedo 19:59:58 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 20:11:14 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@91-67-244-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:12:03 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@91-67-244-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:14:09 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:19:50 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:21:05 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:21:09 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:24:04 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 20:27:35 -!- theron_ [~theron@dslb-084-060-180-027.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:28:09 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-53-254.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:30:17 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 20:31:30 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:31:59 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:33:14 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:06 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-10.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 20:38:32 Daisy [~Daisy@host-95-199-3-73.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:38:38 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 20:41:43 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@91-67-244-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:45:34 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 20:45:41 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@116.103.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:53:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:59 jimila [~jimila@125.70.248.48] has joined #lisp 21:10:01 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:10:56 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 21:11:11 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.166.35] has joined #lisp 21:11:47 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:56 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 21:12:37 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 21:15:42 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@81.220.28.37.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:16:05 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:20:57 -!- Euthy` [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:24:36 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:25:27 -!- jimila [~jimila@125.70.248.48] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:25:39 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-233-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:25:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:08 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc1-sgyl27-2-0-cust785.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:27 http://jiaaro.com/python-performance-the-easyish-way 21:28:41 the very naive way to approach that in CL is failing hard on me 21:28:41 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:01 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:19 do I need to resort to clisp which is known to have faster bignums? 21:31:19 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:35 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 21:32:20 dim: are you on a 32 bit machine? 21:32:39 can I ask my lisp implementation about that? 21:32:52 I'm pretty sure I'm on a 64 bits system here (mac hardware, ccl) 21:33:14 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:33:14 arunganesan [~arun@lessentropy.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:32 Welcome to Clozure Common Lisp Version 1.8-r15286M (DarwinX8664)! 21:33:43 looks like 64 bits to me 21:34:30 what makes you think bignums are involved? most-positive-fixnum will tell you the maximum value for a fixnum. 21:34:30 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 21:34:31 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 21:34:31 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-131-121.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:35:04 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 21:35:13 CL-USER> most-positive-fixnum 21:35:13 1152921504606846975 21:35:25 looks good, why would the sumrange be so slow? 21:35:45 21:35:46 (defun sumrange (max) "return the sum of numbers from 1 to MAX" (declare (type fixnum max)) (loop for i below max sum i)) 21:36:00 I did it that way (sorry about the empty line I pasted) 21:36:38 (sumrange (expt 10 8)) takes about half a sec, I had to stop (sumrange (expt 10 10)) 21:36:53 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Client Quit] 21:37:02 dim: there's really not enough information there for any compiler to derive that the sum is a fixnum. Look at the disassembly, read CCL's manual, ask people who use/know CCL. 21:37:37 how would you approach it with SBCL, that I should be setting up for slime now as an alternative 21:37:44 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 21:38:11 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:19 pulse40 [~pulse40@c-98-196-168-47.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:09 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@81.220.28.37.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 21:42:08 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:44:08 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:44:21 dim: http://paste.lisp.org/+2T68 21:45:40 abeaumont [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:03 hehe, nice overall 21:46:21 note that the goal here is to actually run the loop, as per the inspiring article 21:46:32 that's what it does. 21:46:33 math tricks are not in the game :) 21:47:06 logand? 21:47:14 modular arithmetic, just like C. 21:47:55 caring about overflows? 21:47:57 except, defined, because signed overflow in C isn't. 21:48:02 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 21:48:07 dim: don't compare with C then. 21:48:21 ok, fair enough, I didn't share my goal 21:48:46 I read that python article where the guy is havng to resort to CTYPES and some C code and explicitely link a DDL in order to get acceptable perfs 21:49:09 then I wante to see how much trouble if at all I would have to go through in CL to get the same speed characteristics 21:49:58 jdz [~jdz@91.105.18.48] has joined #lisp 21:50:00 see the paste. Same speed characteristic, and well-defined failure mode. 21:50:39 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:51:20 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@host-95-199-3-73.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:46 here I have (SUMRANGE (EXPT 10 10)) took 7,355,652 microseconds (7.355652 seconds) to run. 21:51:48 Daisy [~Daisy@host-95-199-3-73.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 21:52:13 mrSpec [~Spec@89-78-118-138.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 21:52:13 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-78-118-138.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 21:52:14 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:53:05 and a negative result --- trying to be so naive as to not deal with overflow 21:53:06 neither of these returns the right result anyway :) 21:53:26 seems like CL people are trying not to be naive though :) 21:53:27 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:54:29 CL tends to favour correctness first, while allowing shortcuts, when explicitly asked for. 21:54:56 you're computing the sum from 0 to max - 1 21:55:10 oh well i guess that wasn't really the point anyway. 21:55:56 -!- arunganesan is now known as dogbert 21:56:16 -!- dogbert is now known as arunganesan 21:59:25 ok I named your paste pk-sumrange, pkhuong, and it's slower that my tries here 21:59:37 (PK-SUMRANGE (EXPT 10 10)) took 20,959,040 microseconds (20.959040 seconds) to run. 22:00:17 dim: optimisation is implementation specific. Only SBCL detects opportunities for modular arithmetic. 22:00:26 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.166.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:37 seems so, yes, trying to get sbcl running here 22:00:38 You can portably outright lie to the compiler; the consequences are portably undefined. 22:01:40 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 22:01:41 I wonder if sbcl-1055-maxima is a good fink package 22:01:46 I mean if it really is sbcl 22:01:51 -!- superflit [~superflit@75-166-71-7.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:02:16 seems so :) 22:06:17 superflit [~superflit@65-128-34-84.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:45 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@host-95-199-3-73.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:09 Daisy [~Daisy@host-95-199-3-73.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 22:13:03 is there way during macro expansion to figure out whether the compiler is currently running? 22:13:39 -!- ngz [~user@27.100.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:54 lkjhg_: what might you do with that info? 22:16:34 Xach: working around a stupid ecl bug 22:17:21 Xach: during compilation it accepts only :cdecl and during interpretation only :default as calling conventions for c callbacks 22:18:42 fink installs a 32 bit sbcl, damnit 22:18:58 CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:25 answer: you can laugh all you want at this poor python guy's having to resort to writing C in some simple contrived case, but you're not that much better with CL. 22:19:44 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 22:22:45 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:33 straight CL perhaps. CL tuned for the implementation is usually the way to very good performance. 22:27:18 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 22:27:53 I'm testing this cffi code . If I run it with CLISP I get no errors but with SBCL I get an `arithmetic error DIVISION-BY-ZERO signalled'. I don't know why. The interesting thing is that with `libgtk-2' I get no errors with CLISP and SBCL. So, the error only shows itself with `libgtk-3' which maybe suggests there's something wrong with it, but still. 22:28:01 requires much knowledge it seems 22:29:35 dim: if you know CL, I think it's easier to extend your knowledge to use your implementation to its fullest than to learn a separate language for performance 22:29:46 pierre__ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-106-116.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:30:11 also, FFI boundaries can be much more complex than just learning the language enough to fix what you're missing 22:30:13 yrk` [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:48 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:32:38 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-53-254.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:33:17 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:53 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:34:52 * (time (pk-sumrange (expt 10 10))) Evaluation took: 8.652 seconds of real time 22:35:21 pkhuong: your code, local fresh compile of sbcl 64 bits (compiled with packaged sbcl 1.0.55 32 bits) 22:35:48 This is SBCL 1.0.58.11-b14aefb -- I compiled that 22:36:03 Xach: I'd concur 22:36:08 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:36:54 Xach: I just wanted to be able to write a very simple and naively beautiful short article as an answer to the python article where to get perfs you need to either write C code and use CTYPES, or be a pypy user 22:37:07 I see that I won't be able to pretend life in CL is *that* simple 22:37:26 I'n *not* saying I want to go back with python tho:) 22:37:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:37:54 full disclosure, I'm writing mostly C these days 22:37:56 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:10 I should be warming that up 22:38:24 dim: you might be interested in using CL:DISASSEMBLE a lot while experimenting with optimizations and profiler 22:38:46 dim: you can lie to the compiler and shave maybe ~10-15% on this case. 22:38:53 that's very interesting, and here would defeat the purpose 22:39:36 the python/ctypes example run that function in 3.01 s for 10**10 22:39:52 we are talking about 8s here, for (expt 10 10) 22:40:12 mmm, I'll see tomorrow about running the ctypes example locally, now that I'm saying that 22:40:20 I should really be sleeping, jeez 22:40:46 The C compiler is smarter about unrolling and scheduling things just right. The effect on less trivial code tends to be much lower. 22:43:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:44:04 You can also look at the annotation for 64-bit arithmetic. That'll shave a tiny bit too. 22:45:36 is there any lisp besides ecl well suited for embedding into another (C) app? 22:47:12 lkjhg_: nope (well, there's that ECL fork). There's better support if you want to design things the other way around. 22:47:46 pkhuong: not really an option for me ... 22:47:55 but ecl is freaking buggy 22:48:04 -!- killerbo1 [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:48:31 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:22 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:53:12 SBCL tells me that the first thing in the backtrace is `0: ("foreign function: #x2002718C52")'. Is there a way to know what function is in that address? 22:53:23 carlo_au [~carlo@ppp121-44-22-153.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:15 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: http://www.redeclipse.net -- Fast-paced online FPS] 22:56:16 didi: connect gdb to the process 22:57:16 lkjhg_: Hum. I'll look into it. Thanks. 23:02:48 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-12-72.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:04:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:23 -!- jdz [~jdz@91.105.18.48] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:13 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 23:07:09 lkjhg_: Do you know how do I get the information about the address? I'm trying `info symbol 0x2002718C52' but it says `No symbol matches 0x2002718C52'. 23:08:22 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:09:58 didi: try "x 0x2002718C52" 23:10:27 didi: but you need debug symbols for the library 23:10:45 didi: try to check /proc//maps 23:10:48 lkjhg_: Hum, right. I don't think I have those. 23:12:34 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:14:49 abeaumont [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:49 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.145.217.167] has joined #lisp 23:15:11 lkjhg_: Now I have the symbols but I 'Cannot access memory at...'. Nah, I give up. Thank you anyway. 23:15:57 didi: the libraries might move around between program invocations 23:16:01 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-229-92.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:12 cpc26 [~user@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 23:20:55 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:12 abeaumont [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:25 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:26:48 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:28:41 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:39:09 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.145.217.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:11 steffi_s [~marioooh@rrcs-24-103-113-68.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:41:05 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.145.217.167] has joined #lisp 23:41:31 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:46:48 ikki [~ikki@189.199.217.186] has joined #lisp 23:49:47 -!- agumonkey [~agu@201.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:50:51 -!- PECCU is now known as peccu 23:51:23 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:52:44 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:53:37 sambio_ [~cc@190.57.227.107] has joined #lisp 23:54:43 -!- sambio_ is now known as sambio 23:55:49 -!- peccu is now known as PECCU 23:56:54 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:58:16 -!- cpc26 [~user@fsf/member/cpc26] has left #lisp