00:00:00 then build it 00:00:09 didi: i don't see why you shouldn't... you can ship it if it appears to be necessary. and you may get things further 00:00:11 Not distribute an ANSI CL library. 00:00:14 unless you don't want to use it 00:00:19 Oh, that's easy: (ql:quickload :your-application) (your-application:save-executable) 00:00:24 didi: now is just the result of what we did so far, you can make tomorrow different 00:00:33 pjb: That's not how users do it! 00:00:37 -!- agumonkey [~agu@86.70.158.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:00:39 Right. 00:01:20 OR, you could try to use ecl. Also, see how maxima is packaged. 00:01:26 didi: #lisp can be harsh, but thats only because dire news don't usually discourage us :) 00:01:27 i agree with didi. certainly for finalized applications 00:02:40 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 00:02:55 *pavelpenev* oops 00:03:05 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:40 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.237.7.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:04:21 didi: what will your app do? 00:04:43 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:05:12 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-136-146-234.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:05:33 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:05:49 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 00:14:29 mast` [~alex@unaffiliated/mast/x-9924406] has joined #lisp 00:17:28 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c163.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:36 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]`off 00:22:31 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:22:50 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:24:19 ur5us [~ur5us@223.194.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 00:25:38 basso_ [~quassel@pc5038.stdby.hin.no] has joined #lisp 00:26:05 -!- basso [~quassel@pc5038.stdby.hin.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:26:28 pavelpenev: not that i mind, but it doesn't quite matter for the sake of the argument. for all that matters, didi may not have an application. he may not even have an idea for an application. fact of the matter is that there is no streamlined way of getting a common lisp application in the debian tree. and that is a reasonable concern to have. 00:28:05 That /is/ a reasonable concern to have. 00:28:16 How does one distribute a CL application anyway? 00:28:29 you first write one, then worry about it 00:29:01 sea4ever: you can distribute a binary. i mostly install quicklisp, sbcl, and the sources to the application. it works like a charm for me. 00:29:28 You mean by making sbcl dump the image as a binary? That's not very lispy. 00:29:47 why not? 00:29:51 there don't seem to be that many applications anyway. most lisp software seems to be either libraries, or a meant to run on a server, or is internal for an organization, etc. 00:30:16 sea4ever: what is "lispy"? 00:30:25 or is developed with ACL/LW, or doesn't care about things normal apps care about 00:30:41 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl5-132-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 00:32:25 incf p_l, for a widely varying definition of normal 00:32:29 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:34:21 LW and ACL lets you make apps like RAD ide do and churn out pretty small executable 00:34:52 and well, most lisp apps are self-contained binaries if dumped, so it's back to "how do I distribute an executable"? 00:35:22 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.248.137] has joined #lisp 00:36:15 you put it into the cloud, naturally 00:36:30 as a tar archive 00:37:58 i think thats how lisp works is distributed :) 00:38:13 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-99-99.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:40:48 :D 00:41:10 *p_l* actually applied for a job based on figuring how to distribute executables on linux :P 00:41:40 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:44:01 I don't know if stassats was joking or not, but https://github.com/mtravers/heroku-buildpack-cl exists 00:44:37 yes, it does :) 00:44:53 he wasn't entirely joking :P 00:45:22 I'd say the price drop in VPSes due to EC2 and such greatly improved CLs deployability 00:45:51 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.248.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:46:23 Have a look at perllinux: http://perllinux.sourceforge.net/ ; I'm just saying we could do a lisplinux. 00:46:42 pavelpenev: of course i'm not joking, i'm convinced that every business plan is required to include the word "cloud" 00:46:49 or else it won't be competitive 00:47:35 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:36 pavelpenev: and that was the jaded sarcastic and unfortunately pretty close to truth part 00:47:57 pjb: I was horrified to see a perl liinux 00:48:07 I concur with the idea of a lisp linux 00:48:29 p_l: I'm young and idealistic only half the time, jaded and sarcastic the rest 00:49:38 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-29-5.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:50:22 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:50:42 Also, is it cruel of me to change the shell of one of my users from /bin/bash to a lisp repl? 00:50:45 pjb: what exactly would be the bennefit of a lisp only linux distribution, other than it would have to use zen instead of x11? 00:51:53 lirt [~lirt@31.162.192.121] has joined #lisp 00:52:17 you'll get a 1000 bonus smug points 00:53:00 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.192.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:21 stassats: would it be enough to out-smug kenny? 00:55:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:01:53 svgsponer [~user@178-83-130-59.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:02:05 fchurca [~fchurca@190.51.91.87] has joined #lisp 01:03:48 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.180.126] has joined #lisp 01:03:50 anon119 [~bman@c-98-238-210-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:01 agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:26 -!- fchurca [~fchurca@190.51.91.87] has quit [Client Quit] 01:04:51 fchurca [~fchurca@190.51.91.87] has joined #lisp 01:05:06 hello my good lads and lasses 01:06:20 is anyone around? 01:06:25 no 01:08:35 -!- svgsponer [~user@178-83-130-59.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has left #lisp 01:09:18 :P 01:09:25 just us mindless bots 01:10:08 just curious, is there any "universal" user interface for CL like YaST's yui that works on terminal and x? 01:10:36 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:45 no 01:11:02 hm 01:11:17 has anyone used ffi then to use yui or something of the sort from cl? 01:11:33 i doubt it 01:12:17 sounds like something interesting to do if i get some free time this semester then 01:14:14 another question; what are your takes on persistence libraries? i've been nosing around, but the ones on cliki haven't haven't been updated in a year or so (afaik) 01:14:48 i don't think, i write my own 01:15:39 which is it? 01:15:59 stassats-storage? 01:16:01 i don't advise you to use it 01:16:15 pavelpenev: the benefit would be that all the sources of your system would be in lisp, so more concise and easier to patch. 01:16:42 why? 01:17:00 Should I make an ADT thingy? 01:17:00 fchurca: theorically, it should be possible to write a McCLIM backend on the terminal. 01:17:06 But nobody ever completed one. 01:17:08 Or has someone done it before? 01:17:08 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:14 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:17:15 fchurca: because i didn't make it to be usable by others 01:17:25 I guess the two aren't mutually exclusive 01:17:28 fchurca: as long as lisp libraries have less than 50 years, they should be good. 01:17:39 stassats: need someone to test it then? :P 01:17:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:44 no 01:17:54 fchurca: check http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/wang.html 01:17:57 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:18:06 pjb: let's see :) 01:18:18 I should write an asdf system for wang, and put it on quicklisp 01:19:22 anybody used losak? 01:19:47 *pavelpenev* raises his eyebrow as he reads that his computer graphics course next semester uses AutoCAD 01:19:53 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@24.68.50.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:20:05 pjb: it may be my immature inner child, but i find the "wang.job" driver name mentioned hilarious 01:20:41 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 01:20:54 especially to a chinese speaker 01:21:21 (i.e would it seem immature/inexplicable) 01:21:45 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:59 how outdated is autocad lisp, emacs level, or worse? 01:22:21 compared to what? 01:22:26 CL 01:22:31 pavelpenev: ooold elisp? 01:22:44 emacs isn 01:22:46 Lisp 1.5? 1.0 01:22:48 t cl 01:23:07 i doubt autocad is either but dunno 01:23:44 no, I'm just giving comparison 01:23:54 AutoLISP iirc had dynamic scoping only 01:24:16 and lots of code you'll encounter looks horrible to schemer or (CL) lisper 01:24:42 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:25:15 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-21-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 01:25:38 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-21-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:12 lirt [~lirt@31.162.192.121] has joined #lisp 01:26:51 How do you get the type of a struct slot? 01:27:04 can't 01:27:51 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:52 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:27:52 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 01:27:58 zort-: you can't get the type of the slot itself because slots are untyped 01:28:13 although, you can get the instance of an element 01:28:19 with class-of 01:28:39 They're untyped? Where does the FOO in (defstruct bar (baz :type foo)) go? 01:28:44 fchurca: they are typed 01:28:57 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 01:29:07 i'm mixing something up 01:30:35 If I'm only comfortable writing fill-in-the-blank sort of macros, those are still useful, right? 01:32:57 Sgeo: i learned them by writing bullcrap 01:33:13 Is that basically a macro which does no computation outside of the quasiquote? 01:34:42 zort-: i think it depends on how comfortable you are. the blank grows in the term fill-in-the-blank :) 01:34:57 my confusion aside *throws self into pit*, i think class-of of an instanced element should work 01:35:12 fchurca: you're too confused 01:36:05 Is there any let in a LOOP? 01:36:13 i think i'd better go read again 01:36:44 would "with" fit the bill? 01:36:55 *madnificent* didn't know not all types were allowed in the :type form of defstruct 01:37:25 Sgeo: (loop for var = (random 100) do (print var)) 01:37:25 values is certainly not allowed 01:37:56 p_l: yeah, but that's not the fault of the language, but of their programmers. A lot of emacs lisp code is bad too. 01:38:31 pjb: yes. Though the tools available by default don't help 01:38:33 madnificent: you're talking about the structure type itself 01:39:00 zort-: you can shadow defstruct, and define your own defstruct macro that will do the book-keeping needed to retrive the types later. 01:39:07 although the question was about slot types 01:39:14 madnificent, I'm looping on a list and want to name the car and cdr of the list 01:39:18 stassats: i meant that the type in a slot-description can not necessarily contain all types, it's implementation defined 01:39:19 madnificent: well, i don't know which types were you expecting it to support 01:39:26 :( I froze emacs. 01:39:35 zort-: see http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/34681fc951fb42b2 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/8e06a7470724aa38 and http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/f687db3424753775 01:39:44 Sgeo: why not use (loop for (cur . rest) on yourlist do ...) 01:39:55 madnificent, hmm, interesting. 01:39:56 uh, thanks, but it's not actually important 01:40:01 Thanks 01:40:07 stassats: things like fixnum and such 01:40:12 And in the meantime I need to kill emacs 01:40:40 madnificent: so, you're talking about slots after all 01:40:54 madnificent: and, it supports all valid type specifiers 01:41:17 stassats: "type---one of the type specifiers list, vector, or (vector size), or some other type specifier defined by the implementation to be appropriate." 01:41:38 it's the structure type 01:41:50 so, you were not talking about slots, but thought you were 01:42:13 stassats: yes indeed, so it seems. slot-type doesn't have a further definition, or so it seems 01:42:26 in the bnf-form, no 01:42:44 (which is why i assumed it would be type) 01:43:06 ah, found it! 01:43:09 sorry for the mess 01:43:09 well, the ridiculous type restrictions should have stopped you from assuming that 01:44:03 only list and vector, that wouldn't make any sense 01:44:08 stassats: that's why i threw it in here. it surprised me enough to hope for some insights :) 01:44:14 stassats: i concur 01:44:29 perhaps for copying, i was trying to think of something like that. 01:45:38 bugger, i found a bug in sbcl 01:45:45 madnificent: it's because of you! 01:45:53 how so? 01:45:57 (which bug) 01:46:22 and i'm sorry. we all prefer bugs to be hidden. so they can come out and haunt you when it matters! 01:46:28 regarding type specifiers 01:46:35 but, i think it's not really bug anymore 01:47:23 at least, not the one which should be fixed 01:49:11 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:50 although clearly, the error message for (typep 1 '(values 1 2)) could be better than just "The value 1 is not of type (OR CONS SYMBOL SB-KERNEL:INSTANCE)." 01:50:56 which "1" is it talking about? 01:52:25 Aha! (slot-definition-type (find 'my-slot (compute-slots (find-class 'my-struct)) :key #'slot-definition-name)) 01:52:48 compute-slots? 01:52:56 compute-slots 01:53:11 the question implied that it's wrong 01:53:24 thats in the mop i believe 01:53:33 But it's not wrong? 01:53:36 It works. 01:53:45 zort-: works and wrong are not mutually exclusive 01:54:03 Are "works in all cases" and wrong? 01:54:21 no 01:54:26 so, you should use class-slots 01:54:46 ok 01:54:51 Is that FIND the only way? 01:55:22 if we're talking about sane ways, yes 01:56:21 Ok, for some reason I was expecting there to be a function like CLASS-SLOT-DEFINITION (taking a class and a slot name, returning that class' slot of that name). 01:56:48 what for? you can do that easily with FIND 01:57:15 I was just expecting it. 01:58:28 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-21-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 02:01:18 Crud 02:01:28 I can't find where the function that should have been created went 02:01:45 -!- sea4ever [~user@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has left #lisp 02:03:13 zort-: the point is that is implementation dependant. You cannot count on it. 02:03:19 sea4ever [~user@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has joined #lisp 02:04:09 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-21-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:38 http://paste.lisp.org/display/131084 02:05:41 What is going wrong here 02:05:55 In my test, typename should have been.... oh wait 02:06:19 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:30 I managed to forget what my code was intended to do. 02:11:07 Shoulda written a docstring :P 02:11:42 http://paste.lisp.org/display/131085 02:11:59 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:15:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:18:25 Sgeo: so one problem you have is that you're interning your symbols ina random package (namely the package bound to *package* when the defadt form is evaluated. 02:18:27 ) 02:18:59 It might be much preferable to use ,(symbol-package typename) or (symbol-package constructor). 02:19:58 Ah, so it would use the package that the symbols are in? 02:20:15 -!- anon119 [~bman@c-98-238-210-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:20:17 So someone should be able to defadt somepackage:shape? 02:20:39 Try something like: (defpackage :p1 (:use :cl)) (in-package :p1) (defmacro defadt ) (defpackage :p2) (defpackage :p3) (defpackage :p4) (in-package :cl-user) (p1::defadt p2::typename (p3::constructor p4::slot)) 02:20:40 pjb: random package? it's the same package from where typename is read 02:21:05 But the package where typename is read is not necessarily the package of typename. 02:21:32 pjb: considering it's used in a normal fashion, like defclass, this is a non-issue 02:21:41 It is an issue. 02:22:03 Considering that 99% of the use of (+ 2 3) is with integer, + with floating points or ratios or complex is a non issue. 02:22:26 ... 02:23:30 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.196.123.52] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:23:39 Said that, good night. 02:24:19 What package should the readers go in? :/ 02:24:21 Night pjb 02:25:29 i would be very much surprised if, when used with, some-package:shape it started interning symbols into SOME-PACKAGE 02:26:00 and, you don't need to go far, just look how defstruct does it, "the reader function for each slot is constructed by concatenating that prefix and the name of the slot, and interning the resulting symbol in the package that is current at the time the defstruct form is expanded." 02:26:23 so, unless you want to break any reasonable expectations, you have my blessings 02:26:29 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.192.121] has quit [Quit: lirt] 02:26:57 s/unless/if/ 02:28:20 Hmm, I can't do punning like this, I think 02:29:06 so, i agree, this is not a "non-issue", it's exactly how it should be done, and interning into the packages of either supplied symbols would be an issue 02:29:41 -!- zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176315793.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 02:29:46 Sgeo: so, keep on interning as you were 02:29:48 zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176315793.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:30:43 and, a protip: (error (format nil "Must supply ~a with a value" ',value)) => (error "Must supply ~a with a value" ',value) 02:31:12 Oh, ok 02:37:01 ice_ [~ice@123.114.40.166] has joined #lisp 02:39:23 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:40:13 -!- fchurca [~fchurca@190.51.91.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:41:53 MoneyIsDebt [~moneyisde@123.136.106.73] has joined #lisp 02:43:37 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:44:59 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:46:09 It occurs to me that someone might want to dynamically make a symbol to pass to defadt 02:47:20 Sgeo: it's the same thing as with defclass/ 02:47:42 anon1191 [~bman@c-98-238-210-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:07 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:20 stassats, but if I have an expression dynamically making a typename, it will be called several times 02:53:40 you can't have it at all 02:55:34 -!- MoneyIsDebt [~moneyisde@123.136.106.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:59:04 MoneyIsDebt [~moneyisde@123.136.106.73] has joined #lisp 02:59:56 Sgeo: you could do something like ensure-class if it's that important? 03:02:56 -!- benny [~user@i577A15C8.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:07:30 -!- agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:13:07 -!- MoneyIsDebt [~moneyisde@123.136.106.73] has quit [Quit: Bye bye now] 03:14:42 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.71.76] has joined #lisp 03:15:15 Yuuhi` [benni@p54839E80.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:45 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A48E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:17:13 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.70.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:18:02 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 03:20:14 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:20:41 Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 03:22:18 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.19.140.84] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:25:01 -!- chenbing [~user@223.166.93.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:32:19 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 03:38:21 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 03:39:01 setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:40:52 nick` [~user@adsl-98-81-59-46.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:19 I'm using cl-opengl on SBCL, debian. Does anyone know why I get a glut font failure 'freeglut (SBCL): font 0xb741db40 not found' when I am running from a binary generated from save-lisp-and-die, but I do not get the error when running from slime. Otherwise gl,glu,glut seem to be working fine. 03:46:28 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:48:45 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:50:02 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 03:58:40 nick`: when do you do save-lisp-and-die? 03:59:18 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:00:16 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:01:59 I call it at the end of the file with a main entry unless :swank is in features. 04:02:41 you don't initialize cl-opengl in anyway before that? 04:04:09 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 04:04:40 no, the only initialization I do is calling glut:display-window to begin in my entry 04:06:01 looks like a glut:init may be required... 04:07:47 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@223.194.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:14:28 nick`: I've used buildapp to create standalone applications too. I don't know how it differs from plain save-lisp-and-die though. 04:14:43 it doesn't 04:14:54 nick`: ^ so there you go. 04:15:36 well, the problem is that something is not loaded upon restarting 04:16:37 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 04:16:42 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable216.122-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:17:07 i've tried a glut:init prior to saving, didn't change anything...then glut:init also in the entry, didn't change anything...then added a reinit function to the glut init.lisp which setfs the initialized flag to nil, then calls init. still didn't' change 04:19:52 Well, i've got to sleep some. I'll tackle this more later. Thanks for the suggestions. 04:20:05 nick`: Good luck! 04:20:05 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:20:27 -!- nick` [~user@adsl-98-81-59-46.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:20:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:03 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:35:54 Is the usual CLHS down? 04:36:47 Sgeo: Not here. Although I don't know what is the "usual CLHS". 04:37:01 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:40:02 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 04:41:12 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 04:42:27 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:42:44 maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 04:42:52 happydpc [~happydpc@2001:da8:208:317e:6ddc:d5fc:ce2c:3e9f] has joined #lisp 04:44:59 Is there a way to do eval with a specified environment object? 04:45:08 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:45:29 no. why do you want to do that? 04:46:03 Want to make an if function that takes lists as arguments and evals whichever needs to be eval. 04:46:24 (This has come up in a discussion in another channel) 04:51:43 So, what _can_ I do with environment objects? 04:51:58 use them with macroexpand, basically. 04:52:07 :/ 04:52:46 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.71.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:52:56 How boring 04:53:01 if you really feel like doing bizarre things, try looking up cltl2. e.g., sbcl has some nonstandard functions that let you mess with environments more. 04:53:41 Hmm. Do many implementations have nonstandard functions to do interesting things? 04:53:50 Because a library wrapping around that might be possible? 04:54:10 well sure. bordeaux-threads, closer-mop, etc 04:54:15 Seems to be the standard thing to do with things that different implementations do differently 04:54:37 but I've never seen anything use cltl2 functions except opticl (not that I've looked) 04:58:42 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 05:00:00 -!- sea4ever [~user@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has left #lisp 05:01:36 -!- sambio [~cc@190.57.227.107] has quit [] 05:01:38 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-rvvhfxaqhzpwjdjy] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 05:02:02 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-curehlekppfwqkwn] has joined #lisp 05:05:36 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:07:17 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 05:08:25 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 05:10:18 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-curehlekppfwqkwn] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 05:12:06 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 05:12:48 -!- happydpc [~happydpc@2001:da8:208:317e:6ddc:d5fc:ce2c:3e9f] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:14:32 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:30 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:21:09 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 05:21:10 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:21:40 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:40 Why was environment manipulation removed from ANSI? 05:31:59 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 05:32:18 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:37:16 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 05:51:21 -!- mast` [~alex@unaffiliated/mast/x-9924406] has left #lisp 05:52:30 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-10.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 05:53:14 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:56:50 mrSpec [~Spec@nor75-12-82-230-65-103.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@nor75-12-82-230-65-103.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:56:51 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:59:08 reminds me of qbasic days: http://i.imgur.com/SRZSA.png 06:00:46 and lemniscates remind me of bandeau swimsuit tops 06:03:00 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:28 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:05:56 Any commonly available macros to abstract the creation of with- macros? 06:07:25 Sgeo, I wrote something called "cl-raii" where you can define "destructors" 06:07:48 Cool 06:08:03 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:08:29 so you can do (with ((x ..) (y ..)) ...) and the objects x and y will get cleaned up with finalizers defined by the generic function FINALIZE 06:09:07 Hey, I see you're using Windows. How did you set your environment up? 06:09:32 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-166-55.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:39 i have a sort of chimera of an environment, for work 06:09:55 i'm not sure how to describe it... I have emacs and some lisps 06:10:23 chenbing [~user@223.166.93.148] has joined #lisp 06:10:25 z1l0g [~jgw@216.99.214.24] has joined #lisp 06:10:33 hola 06:10:34 z1l0g, memo from pjb: you can use (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.string:string-justify-left string [width [left-margin]]) to indent a string. 06:10:38 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-166-55.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:12:05 (disclaimer: i don't recommend windows; i just have it because it's required) 06:12:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-222-253.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:14:25 I'm using clisp as a script and getting "WARNING: locale: no encoding 646, using ISO-8859-1" 06:14:37 -!- ice_ [~ice@123.114.40.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:14:59 how can I get rid of that? 06:16:51 ice_ [~ice@123.114.43.214] has joined #lisp 06:17:43 eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has joined #lisp 06:20:13 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:23:37 -!- [SLB]`off is now known as [SLB] 06:28:29 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:51 it's odd, because I only get this warning when remotely calling the script 06:31:31 -!- getoffmalawn [~getoffmal@CPE-124-191-133-14.wzyy1.woo.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 06:35:12 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:38:15 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 06:40:23 z1l0g: I would guess there is some rogue environment variable in your remote shell. 06:41:14 z1l0g: clisp has a command line option (-E iirc) to set the encoding. 06:41:44 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.138.242] has joined #lisp 06:42:02 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:43:14 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 06:44:52 I tried using -E but I still get the warning 06:45:15 z1l0g: is it maybe not clisp that create the warning? 06:45:50 Is there an easy way to get defmethod to pass additional initialization arguments to its make-instance call? 06:46:01 ah, no. WARNING: is what clisp prints. 06:46:07 I'm pretty sure it is; all my other scripts are bourn scripts and don't generate the error 06:47:14 maybe I could re-direct *ERROR-OUTPUT* to /dev/null ? 06:47:48 z1l0g: that's a big hammer 06:47:57 env 06:47:58 yeah... 06:48:01 oops 06:49:06 z1l0g: but yeah, have you looked at the environment of the remote process? try adding "env > /tmp/env.log" to the script and look for the string 646 there 06:49:47 okay, will try that 06:52:31 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-179-210.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:56:30 err.log contains entries for PWD HOME PATH & RC_PID 06:56:52 no 646 entries 06:57:10 try starting clisp with that same environment from the command line (env - ...) 06:59:46 x3f [~user@c83-254-165-239.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:00:42 okay, did that & pasted in the script lines; no warnings 07:01:14 then i'm out of ideas 07:02:13 no prob; I'll figure it out. Is there a clisp-specific IRC channel somewhere? 07:04:11 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:07:45 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 07:12:10 -!- johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:12:16 johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 07:13:49 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:19:46 benny [~user@i577A14E2.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 07:21:09 -!- anon1191 [~bman@c-98-238-210-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:26:09 z1l0g: there are mailing lists: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=1355 07:30:44 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:01 lirt [~lirt@188.17.98.211] has joined #lisp 07:34:57 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:36:53 Jubb [~ghost@68-191-42-6.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:38:47 Anyone familiar with iolib:make-socket-pair? I can't seem to figure out why (iolib:make-socket-pair) creates 4 file descriptors according to lsof. 07:40:11 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.56.118] has joined #lisp 07:42:05 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:45:25 2D 07:45:25 W 1<<<< does a macro expansion area's eval-when :compile-toplevel means telling compiler : don't generate these codes to compile , just evulate 07:53:46 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:54:09 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:48 -!- dan [~dan@gateway/tor-sasl/dan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:01:24 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:02:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.20.207] has joined #lisp 08:02:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.20.207] has quit [Changing host] 08:02:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:03:52 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:03:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:07:39 -!- z1l0g [~jgw@216.99.214.24] has quit [Quit: That's it for today] 08:10:34 -!- Jubb [~ghost@68-191-42-6.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:11:23 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:11:59 anon119 [~bman@c-67-181-158-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:13 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 08:14:38 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 08:16:07 pulse40 [~pulse40@c-98-196-168-47.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:36 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Client Quit] 08:22:00 ngz [~user@27.100.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:26 dan [~dan@gateway/tor-sasl/dan] has joined #lisp 08:24:03 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:03 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:24:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:16 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 08:27:48 -!- pulse40 [~pulse40@c-98-196-168-47.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pulse40] 08:29:51 -!- chenbing [~user@223.166.93.148] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:30:12 -!- x3f [~user@c83-254-165-239.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 08:30:28 chenbing [~user@223.166.93.148] has joined #lisp 08:34:48 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35:50 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 08:39:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:42:34 Posterdati [~tapioca@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:44:07 Hotroot [~hotrootso@pool-71-106-162-243.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:42 -!- Hotroot [~hotrootso@pool-71-106-162-243.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 08:45:05 -!- anon119 [~bman@c-67-181-158-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:46:38 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 08:49:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:56:02 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.237] has joined #lisp 09:03:07 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:03:32 happydpc [~happydpc@2001:da8:208:317e:6ddc:d5fc:ce2c:3e9f] has joined #lisp 09:06:41 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:08:32 can one write an os entirely in lisp? 09:10:52 agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:16:57 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:17:42 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 09:17:55 -!- wuehli [~wuehlmaus@freeshell.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:18:12 lcc: I'm not sure about how much of the OS is written in lisp, but have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Genera 09:20:10 neat! 09:21:04 I would be interested in writing my own simple lisp OS that runs in an emulator. 09:21:37 Sounds like a fun project 09:23:07 -!- ngz [~user@27.100.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:23:39 You could also take a look at http://www.unlambda.com/lisp/mit.page 09:24:36 Source code to the MIT lisp machine 09:24:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-222-253.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:11 lcc: look at movitz 09:25:11 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:40 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:41 Oh cool. Thanks H4ns. I didn't know this existed 09:26:57 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 09:32:12 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-194-97.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:33:10 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:35:24 pavelpenev [~quassel@programmer1.ddns.icon.bg] has joined #lisp 09:38:05 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:32 when referencing resources relative to source code, is this recommended? --> #.(or *compile-file-truename* *load-truename*) 09:48:06 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.168] has joined #lisp 09:50:03 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:51:52 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-55-137.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:52:39 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.86] has joined #lisp 10:03:38 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:04:06 iLogical [~iLogical@187.112.135.37] has joined #lisp 10:07:28 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:36 iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 10:08:45 bitonic [~user@94.116.85.13] has joined #lisp 10:08:55 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@187.112.135.37] has quit [Client Quit] 10:10:35 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:17:00 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:33:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:46:08 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:46:09 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-141-255.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:04 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-131-20.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:31 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-141-255.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:54:05 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-131-80.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:18 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-131-20.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:59:47 cfy` [~cfy@125.123.48.50] has joined #lisp 11:00:17 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:00:22 -!- cfy` is now known as cfy 11:00:23 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.48.50] has quit [Changing host] 11:00:23 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 11:05:46 when a macro with function call in it's &body , the compiled macro expansion will consist of '"function call form" or "function call result")? 11:17:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:18:39 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 11:24:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:25:59 danlentz [~danlentz@c-76-117-4-243.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:43 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:32:20 -!- rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uassviorgglqdvld] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:25 -!- NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gcvoemjknjbxzzda] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:26 -!- denysonique [u484@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wuaijcrevnzbbntc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:33:45 -!- Spaceghostc2c [u5056@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vmydpiqiiafghnjk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:33:45 -!- dotemacs [u801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-scjasvtbvqidmnhy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:34:10 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-55-137.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 11:34:44 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uvkktwarmuzgcjxe] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:34:44 -!- Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ycqrtwjegvgekuqy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:34:44 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 11:36:32 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-76-117-4-243.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:37:18 Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uavucjfeluizyewz] has joined #lisp 11:38:37 -!- bitonic [~user@94.116.85.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:41:15 dotemacs [u801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vkfgbssokvaagles] has joined #lisp 11:41:49 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aiubamrmjsnpdrhg] has joined #lisp 11:47:03 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:48:30 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-99-99.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:49:29 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:49:35 NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ijpksinqyubjhgap] has joined #lisp 11:51:16 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 11:54:21 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:12 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-55-137.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:58:59 -!- pskosinski [~pk@83.19.206.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:07 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:10 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:02:13 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:48 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:04:19 denysonique [u484@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fovxukmvsphgsbfh] has joined #lisp 12:10:39 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p54839E80.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:13:05 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:20:48 -!- happydpc [~happydpc@2001:da8:208:317e:6ddc:d5fc:ce2c:3e9f] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:24:00 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:28 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:24:42 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:26:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:27:49 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 12:28:03 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:28:18 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-131-80.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 12:32:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:35:04 DT``` [~ea@95.234.194.234] has joined #lisp 12:35:28 -!- DT`` [~ea@95.234.194.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:35:47 -!- DT``` is now known as DT`` 12:43:27 chenbing: function call form. 12:44:13 lcc: one can write an entire OS in lisp. If you want to do so, have a look at Movitz (it's a CL implementation working on bare hardware, in which you could write an OS). 12:44:30 lcc: there has been also work on sbcl to make it run on bare hardware. 12:44:55 robot-beethoven: you should not refer resources relative to source code. 12:48:04 chenbing: eval-when with only :compile-toplevel means to generate the code in the body ONLY at compilation time, in the compilation environment. With only :compile-toplevel, the generated code won't be written to the .fasl file, won't be loaded from the .lisp file (= :execute) or from the .fasl file (= :load-toplevel). 12:49:13 rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mdalwlreetbnmdxt] has joined #lisp 12:49:53 chenbing: you can make a file containing (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) (format t "~&~A~%" :compile-toplevel)) (eval-when (:load-toplevel) (format t "~&~A~%" :load-toplevel)) (eval-when (:execute) (format t "~&~A~%" :execute)) 12:49:53 12:50:36 and (compile-file "test.lisp") (load "test.lisp") (load "test.fas") ;; or whatever file type your implementation uses. 12:51:03 In general, if you drop the file type, if there's an up-to-date fasl file, it'll be loaded, so: (load "test"). 12:51:36 sigjuice_: that's because you need one fd to read and one fd to write, on each side of the bidirectional pipe. 12:51:40 sigjuice_: man 2 pipe 12:56:24 Demosthenes [~demo@mc82c36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:04 since eval-when sound like "evulate lisp form when" so only ":compile-toplevel" i think not only generate code in compile enviroment ,but also evulate . may i say like this 13:03:28 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:58 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:17 -!- lirt [~lirt@188.17.98.211] has quit [Quit: lirt] 13:05:58 ghast [~user@host248.200-45-155.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 13:07:00 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:09:36 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.180.126] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 13:15:32 superflit_ [~superflit@65-128-36-89.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:46 -!- superflit [~superflit@75-166-74-105.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:16:47 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 13:17:48 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-231-226.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:02 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-55-137.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 13:23:13 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-231-226.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:23:26 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:23:27 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.32.59.45] has joined #lisp 13:23:51 -!- tensorpudding_ is now known as tensorpudding 13:24:45 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-55-137.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:24:52 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:30:29 gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-122-252.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:32:16 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:37:52 oO 13:39:17 [6502] [5e24deb2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.222.178] has joined #lisp 13:39:40 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:14 chenbing: yes, it evaluates the code in the compilation environment. 13:41:32 Actually nothing's said about compiling or generating code: the compilation environment could just use an interpreter. 13:41:51 AFAIK. 13:42:16 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-9-253.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:44:08 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ccd6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:52 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:25 lcc` [~user@75-173-94-225.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:48 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:46:49 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:47:02 -!- [6502] [5e24deb2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.222.178] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:47:10 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:34 hello http://paste.lisp.org/display/131094 13:55:48 is the lisp code buggy ? 13:56:03 cause the c version is reversing the number correctly! 13:56:22 or do i have a silly code bug anywhere ? 13:57:08 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:57:21 given 10 it reverse it to 01 in c version for example, and here i get into inf recursion! 13:57:57 the same happens with cmucl too 13:58:10 so i think, i'm wrong somewhere, but where ? 13:59:07 Xach you there? 14:01:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:02:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.20.207] has joined #lisp 14:02:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.20.207] has quit [Changing host] 14:02:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:02:58 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:05:23 wbooze: your error is to not write lisp programs in files, over multiple lines. 14:05:44 Yiq [Yiq@109.58.168.178.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 14:05:47 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:05:52 Opinions on Paul Graham? 14:06:03 wbooze: What does (/ 1 10) evaluate to? 14:06:06 wbooze: the second error, is not listening to what we told you: we told you yesterday to put your lisp code in a file, and to use LET instead of DEFVAR. 14:06:09 Great hacker and pointless language designer? 14:06:27 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:06:36 Yiq: why do you need an opinion: are you hiring Paul Graham? 14:06:43 yes 14:06:48 I think not. 14:07:01 He's busy with ycombinator. 14:07:12 I think hed prefer cleaning my house 14:07:44 So for this job, how his language designer qualities matter? 14:07:56 -!- ice_ [~ice@123.114.43.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:08:06 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:08:14 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:08:22 Hes gonna teach my about programming langauges design while cleaning my house obv 14:08:36 He's not a whore. 14:08:42 dude, the same happens when i use the let version! 14:08:48 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:09:05 What let version? 14:09:54 ice_ [~ice@123.114.46.254] has joined #lisp 14:10:03 this one http://paste.lisp.org/display/131094#2 14:10:05 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:10:41 hmm seems the middle-mouse click copy was truncated somehow.... 14:10:41 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ccd6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:10:42 pjb: everyone is, depends on the prize. im pretty sure hed clean my house for a 2 billion a year 14:10:54 but other then that that code does the same inf recursion.... 14:11:12 wbooze: What does (/ 1 10) evaluate to? 14:11:28 Yiq: probably not: when you have a lot of money, you may not want to do crap for a lot lot lot more money. 14:11:46 wbooze: what does (/ #C(1 1) 10) evaluate to? 14:11:55 wbooze: what does (/ 10/3 10) evaluate to? 14:12:45 *maxm* is believer in large percentage of survival bias in the "famous hacker who made it big" category 14:13:16 for every paul gram, there are 100 just as smart paul grams, who did not had a cool project at the right time, and went into obscurity 14:13:53 or are working on stuff that isn't visible 14:14:12 or who couldn't even get started because they lacked access to basics 14:15:30 So, you cannot even type (/ #c(1 1) 10) at your repl? 14:15:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:15:56 10/3 10 evals to 1/3 14:16:02 Yes. 14:16:10 and what about (/ 1/3 10) ? 14:16:26 same 14:16:29 heh 14:16:41 same? 14:16:46 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 14:18:01 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:04 err 1/30 sorry 14:18:14 ok and (/ 1/30 10) ? 14:18:19 (/ 1/3 10) evals to 1/30 14:18:32 ok and (/ 1/30 10) ? 14:18:42 that evals to 1/300 14:18:50 do you see a pattern yet? 14:19:09 zeroes ? 14:19:19 When will it give 0 ? 14:19:28 never ! 14:19:30 heh 14:19:31 right. 14:19:36 oh man 14:19:40 So your program never terminates so your algorithm is wrong. 14:19:49 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:19:53 ok 14:20:31 sellout42 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:10 You have two problems. This one, (don't use /, in cl, / means /), and the fact that you're trying to work on numbers when you really want your program to work on integers. 14:21:23 check my annotation. 14:21:26 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl5-132-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 14:23:47 -!- naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-367-249.w90-41.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:24:40 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:25:09 ha 14:25:14 ok, thank you 14:26:38 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-122-252.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 14:27:24 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.56.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:28 -!- abeaumont_ [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:29:13 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@mc82c36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:30:46 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.56.118] has joined #lisp 14:31:18 yuuhi` [~yuuhi@p4FC2D4FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:44 fantasticsid [~user@208.93.118.37] has joined #lisp 14:36:22 abeaumont [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:41 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-115-101.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:35 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ccd6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:55 well, ok yours gives me the number reversed as 0 1 of 10 for example.... 14:39:30 That's what your code wanted to do, I didn't dare contradict it. 14:40:17 wbooze: you see, there's no specifications, no docstring. That's why you shouldn't start with progn, but with defun, so that you can write a docstring, giving the specifications of the function. 14:40:18 without the leading space in the format it gives it condensed as 01, i dunno why's that... 14:41:17 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 14:42:17 You're concentrating on the wrong problem. 14:42:25 Think and write the specifications! 14:44:09 erm, i'll do that later! 14:44:13 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl5-132-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 14:44:22 Then there's no bug. 14:44:22 but nevermind thank you very much 14:44:37 yep, it was me assuming / does the same as in C 14:44:55 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:45:00 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Client Quit] 14:45:47 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:45:58 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable216.122-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:48:16 -!- sellout42 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[~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:54 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-55-137.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 15:33:02 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:59 happydpc [~happydpc@2001:da8:208:317e:6ddc:d5fc:ce2c:3e9f] has joined #lisp 15:35:28 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:38:19 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.166.35] has joined #lisp 15:38:28 abeaumont_ [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:23 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@164.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:40:58 -!- yuuhi` [~yuuhi@p4FC2D4FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:41:43 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-55-137.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 15:41:56 yuuhi` [~yuuhi@p579D68C2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:49 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:03 -!- x3F [~user@c83-254-165-239.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:44:37 -!- fantasticsid [~user@208.93.118.37] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:51:05 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-058-087.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:06 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:51:41 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:14 You could replace do (let ((bamm-bamm )) ) by collect (let ((bamm-bamm )) ) into wilma-s-results and finally (return-from fred (values roxy wilma-s-results)) 15:52:24 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.138.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:05 -!- yuuhi` [~yuuhi@p579D68C2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:58:11 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:30 blattella [~blattella@46.115.22.219] has joined #lisp 16:11:17 -!- eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 16:12:49 -!- ice_ [~ice@123.114.46.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:13:42 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:19:19 ice_ [~ice@222.130.131.142] has joined #lisp 16:19:56 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:20:11 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 16:25:11 pjb: iolib:make-socket-pair wraps the socketpair() system call so I believe there should be two FDs. 16:30:04 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:54 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ccd6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:38:48 perhaps it calls it twice? 16:40:12 pjb: no, just that make-socket-from-fd calls dup() by default 16:40:24 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl5-132-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 16:42:30 So is there an FD leak here? Since (multiple-value-setq (one two) (make-socket-pair) (close one) (close two)) leaves FDs behind? 16:42:54 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ccd6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:55 pro-tip: (setf (values one two) (values 1 2)) is better 16:43:40 stassats: cool 16:44:00 sigjuice_: yes 16:45:41 -!- blattella [~blattella@46.115.22.219] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:46:19 Would this be an appropriate fix? https://gist.github.com/0e2bc27b264fecad4c44 16:46:54 sigjuice_: I already fixed it, see #iolib 16:47:15 well, fixed on HEAD 16:47:35 fe[nl]ix: thanks! 16:47:46 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl5-132-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 16:48:08 but my two commits probably apply to 0.7.3 as well 16:49:39 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc1-sgyl27-2-0-cust785.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:57:43 strace showed me the dup() calls, but it wasn't obvious to me how (make-socket-from-fd) ended up calling dup() 17:02:54 what implementation do you use ? 17:03:01 sbcl 17:06:07 anon119 [~bman@c-67-181-158-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:15 I added a whole bunch of trace and break but couldn't see for myself where dup happens. 17:07:15 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:09:36 sometimes a grep works better :) 17:10:04 atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:00 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:24 So is it via (defmethod shared-intialize :after) ? 17:13:44 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@programmer1.ddns.icon.bg] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:14:01 yes, when initializing the socket object 17:14:36 -!- lcc`` [~user@71-222-130-163.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:14:55 Spaceghostc2c [u5056@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-awghfeqbzbnsyetb] has joined #lisp 17:15:02 -!- Spaceghostc2c [u5056@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-awghfeqbzbnsyetb] has quit [Changing host] 17:15:02 Spaceghostc2c [u5056@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has joined #lisp 17:15:02 -!- Spaceghostc2c [u5056@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has quit [Changing host] 17:15:02 Spaceghostc2c [u5056@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-awghfeqbzbnsyetb] has joined #lisp 17:17:09 I did come across that via grepping, but gave up after (trace isys:dup) did nothing. 17:18:07 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:18:12 -!- Yiq [Yiq@109.58.168.178.bredband.tre.se] has left #lisp 17:19:00 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:19:47 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-058-087.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:19:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:20:28 Jubb [~ghost@68-191-42-6.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:22:25 sigjuice_: that's because all syscalls are inlined 17:22:48 clhs remove-if-not 17:22:49 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_rm.htm 17:25:09 jangbc [~jangbc@1.231.44.192] has joined #lisp 17:26:28 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:32 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 17:28:24 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:28 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:37 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.56.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:32:17 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-66-73-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:30 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-008-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:22 -!- jangbc [~jangbc@1.231.44.192] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - 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Why not variables too? 20:09:01 like it says, it's only for syntactic processing. being able to make closures in an arbitrary environment at any time is kind of... even weirder 20:09:33 That's what I want to do 20:09:48 you should reconsider your design. 20:10:42 if you're just playing around, look at kernel for these things. if you're working on something, redesign it. Is what I mean. 20:11:22 I'm just playing around but want to show it possible to do something in CL 20:12:12 You'd have to write your own evaluator/compiler. Enclose wasn't intended to do what you want even when it existed, it's for macroexpanders looks like. 20:13:55 Question: Is it correct to think of macroexpansion phase in terms of macroexpand-dammit, and if so, why isn't a function to do that available in CL? 20:16:26 bertako [~bertako@nat2-34.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:22:22 -!- dys [~user@2a01:1e8:e100:8296:21a:4dff:fe4e:273a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:03 Sgeo: it might been removed from standard in order to give more freedom to implementers? 20:24:04 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ccd6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:18 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: brb again] 20:34:22 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-55-137.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 20:35:12 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 20:43:04 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@gateway/tor-sasl/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 20:44:36 -!- blackmir3oxx [blackmirro@shell.ulug.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:46:31 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:51:02 -!- antonv [2e35c344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.68] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:57:22 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:58:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-223-94.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:00:07 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:01:11 any hunchentoot pros? 21:01:51 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 21:05:44 i want to dispatch a page handler to "/view", and somehow be able to return the path relative to that, such as "1" in the request for "/view/1". the only way i can get it to work is to use (query-string*) but the format must be "/view?1" rather than /view/1". how can i get the relative path as a parameter? 21:13:05 -!- sambio is now known as sambio_ 21:13:45 [6502] [5e24deb2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.222.178] has joined #lisp 21:14:24 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:16:10 just looked up the cl-irc stats on ohloh. 21:16:21 seems it's been 3 years since I last committed to it. 21:16:36 I should probably make a few more commits, just to make it look alive. 21:16:41 is anybody still using it? 21:16:59 ah. 21:17:11 I had a few old patches laying around. I'll commit those. 21:17:58 <[6502]> Hello. I was thinking to add a reader macro mapping (x y -> (+ x y)) into (lambda (x y) (+ x y)). Why is that a bad idea? 21:18:07 ehu: There are a few patches here regarding responses (esp. including stuff needed to get cl-irc running on freenode). 21:18:10 <[6502]> is it a lib for writing irc bots? 21:18:35 ehu: a few guys here are running a few instances of a cl-irc based bot, we have our own patches you might want to look into. 21:19:26 ehu: the one I'm using is http://antoszka.pl/cl-irc.diff 21:20:30 [6502]: there's a similar reader macro floating around, afair (sharp-l-syntax). 21:20:31 "rpl_nofuckinidea"? 21:20:56 eh, are people talking about lambda readers? 21:21:27 Prob'ly. 21:21:48 -!- anon119 [~bman@c-67-181-158-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:21:59 Here's my take: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/qtility/src/423519bbe130/reader.lisp 21:22:03 <[6502]> Quadrescence: I found myself writing a lot of lambda (callbacks in gui) and the syntax is annoying after a while. e.g. (lambda () (hide-window w)); i was thinking to (-> (hide-window w)) 21:22:19 Vivitron`` [~user@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:30 So you can do #1$(* $ $), or #2$(+ $1 $2) 21:22:35 <[6502]> Quadrescence: "->" separates argument from body 21:22:49 or a thunk: #$(hide-window w) 21:23:18 <[6502]> Quadrescence: but why is that a bad idea? 21:23:24 $$ is bound to a &rest parameter, so you can implement CL:LIST like: #$$$ 21:23:37 IDENTITY is #1$$ :) 21:23:52 it's kind of pointless? I mean, in your example you're only shaving... six characters? 21:23:58 -!- Vivitron` [~Vivitron`@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:24:17 <[6502]> Quadrescence: list cannot be implemented as just returning a rest parameter. Rest parameter are not guaranteed to be fresh. 21:24:48 [6502]: http://anonscm.debian.org/darcs/pkg-common-lisp/arnesi.upstream/src/sharpl-reader.lisp  that's the one I'm talking about 21:24:51 POSSIBLY-UNFRESH-LIST then 21:25:46 Well, it makes things a bit harder to read... It makes things like source analysis tools harder. 21:26:19 I made that macro at work because we had hundreds -- if not thousands -- of structs that had to be initialized with (generally unique) lambdas. 21:26:47 about four lambdas per struct. 21:27:29 antoszka: that'd be great! 21:27:37 *ehu* downloaded the other patch 21:27:45 *ehu* looks at it now 21:28:04 <[6502]> Quadrescence: i like #$(hide-window w)... inded in many cases are lambda without parameters 21:28:13 <[6502]> indeed 21:28:17 There are just some pretty much ad-hoc responses added to make it not bail out on freenode. 21:29:01 [6502], I'd just question yourself: how many lambdas are you saved from typing by doing this? 21:29:04 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:29:23 As I said, in my case, there were on the order of 1000 lambdas. 21:30:34 that's fine. somehow, that seems to be how irc is further developed 21:30:35 also, easily distinguishable on first look (though pretty lambdas in Emacs help a bit) 21:32:07 antoszka: hmm. 307 and 330 have the same name. is that correct? 21:32:22 that maps them to the same event. 21:32:24 <[6502]> : was another candidate i liked .... (x y : (+ x y)) 21:32:48 ehu: Probably not  I don't remember what they really are. I think I might have been just guessing for some. 21:32:48 <[6502]> thunks as (: (hide-window w)) 21:32:54 [6502]: seems to require much more interference into reader 21:33:08 FWIW, I'd be particularly against (x -> (+ x x)) because this breaks the general rule that the first element of a list is some kind of operator. 21:33:39 -!- bertako [~bertako@nat2-34.ghnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:43 ehu: I've asked the other bot guy to post his patch  it might (or not) be more tidy than mine. 21:33:51 <[6502]> Quadrescence: yeah... it's infix madness :-D 21:34:03 thanks! :-) 21:36:44 or, you know, you can do http://paste.lisp.org/display/131102 21:37:12 ehu: https://www.alien.net.au/irc/irc2numerics.html  this page gives yet another set of events. 21:37:57 Quadrescence: or you can have pretty lambdas done in Emacs, together with various other symbols :) 21:38:06 antoszka: yea. the problem is, there are many lists like those and they often conflict. 21:38:49 p_l, does emacs just prettify LAMBDA into  from the interface? Or does it actually store the text with ? 21:39:04 I could come up with a good solution, but that would probably involve server detection logic which I wasn't about to add back when I discovered all the different listings. 21:39:07 ehu: Maybe they could be tuned per server/network, but that would probably require a somewhat major reorganisation of the code. 21:39:14 Yeah. 21:39:18 pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has joined #lisp 21:39:52 Quadrescence: prettify the text, though you can bind the keyboard properly too 21:39:57 ehu: if you set the server type (or network) by hand, you wouldn't need to code in heuristics for detecting them. 21:40:05 *p_l* has  and  in keyboard map, thanks to antoszka :) 21:40:06 ehu: that might be easier as a first step. 21:40:19 . 21:40:43 antoszka: yea. I think that might be a good first step. 21:40:52 and not too hard to set up. 21:40:57 (.x  x) transforming into (lambda (x) x) would be pretty awesome reader macro, though :) 21:41:35 I'll wait for the patch by your friend first though and see what I can do about it later. 21:42:21 p_l, I thought someone in here did it, along with a host of other weird things like set membership and whatnot 21:43:20 ehu: I think they'd just be some other responses patched in. I'll see if I can get them together. 21:43:20 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-009-078.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:43:45 antoszka: committed. please send any additional patches to the mailing list and myself. That way they at least end up in the archives for people to be used. 21:44:05 ehu: thx 21:44:06 antoszka: do you not need additional patches to handle utf8/non-utf8 input? 21:44:22 I seem to remember that's what is required. 21:44:23 ehu: none that I noticed. 21:44:29 perfect :-) 21:45:02 I'm pushing a lot of funny utf chars through the bot and the code seems to be perfectly transparent in that department. 21:45:16 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:07 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-npuihzexclhhdzhh] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 21:50:24 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:50:35 ouch. the last release dates from 2007! 21:50:49 I'm getting old. 21:51:12 did that thing with pongs ever get fixed? 21:51:14 -!- Vivitron`` [~user@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:51:28 Bike: which thing with pongs? 21:51:32 I have no idea. 21:51:43 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:14 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-176-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:53:39 ehu: http://lists.common-lisp.net/pipermail/cl-irc-devel/2010-January/000273.html 21:54:28 ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.74] has joined #lisp 21:54:45 p_l: I also have it in my .emacs to transform the word 'lambda' to visually display . 21:56:43 how can i perform the display of the first 0 after the . in format ? like in here http://paste.lisp.org/display/131103 21:58:02 wbooze: ~2,'0d 21:58:04 Why doesn't `(foo bar baz) mean something like (quasiquote (foo bar baz))? 21:58:08 i just get a space or so there it displays as . 1 instead of .01 21:58:12 That would make sense for macro-writing macros I think 21:58:16 aah 21:59:05 Bike: no it wasn't. Actually, I didn't even notice getting that message. 21:59:13 p_l: http://pastebin.com/w92fs6nb 21:59:27 Bike: it's fixed now :-) 21:59:40 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 21:59:40 (oh. I still had it marked for follow-up!) 21:59:42 ehu: sweet. 21:59:57 ehu: Make sure Xach gets your updates in the next ql release. 21:59:58 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:00:06 What did ehu do? 22:00:11 (dunno how automatic that process is) 22:00:24 antoszka: I think I'll get a release out some time soon. 22:00:27 that should help. 22:00:50 Sgeo: re backquote, I don't know. sbcl and clisp have such things, I believe. there's an argument about it here: http://www.cliki.net/proposed%20extensions%20to%20ANSI 22:01:32 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:03:08 Isn't that what Scheme does by default? 22:03:09 (quasiquote (1 2 (unquote (+ 3 4)) 5)) 22:03:09 ;Value 5: (1 2 7 5) 22:03:09 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 22:03:14 o.O "This is a really, really bad idea; totally contrary to the meaning of backquote. Backquoted material should be handled by the reader (as in most CL implementations now). Turning it into a form is so bad, I'd seriously consider abandoning Lisp if it happened, I feel so strongly about that." 22:03:25 yes. the clhs even suggests looking at Scheme. 22:04:09 *[6502]* found that macro-writing macros is for him hard to get right at first attempt when using nested quasiquoting 22:06:12 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:41 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.237] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:15 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.237] has joined #lisp 22:07:20 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:28 <[6502]> In my toy indeed `(...) ,(...) and ,@(...) expand to (\' ...) (\, ...) and (\,@ ...) 22:07:34 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 22:07:39 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:59 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:08:09 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 22:08:21 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-115-39.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:08:38 <[6502]> http://paste.lisp.org/+2T5S 22:11:41 <[6502]> what is the problem of having backquote as a regular macro? 22:11:51 ok. well, that's it for another 80 years of irc client development, I've filled my commit quota for cl-irc for the next 10 years. 22:12:05 later! :-) 22:12:48 lol 22:12:51 good night 22:15:18 z1l0g [~jgw@216.99.214.24] has joined #lisp 22:16:27 Apparently, SBCL doesn't support C calling Lisp on some platforms. Is Windows one of those platforms? :/ 22:16:54 try CCL 22:17:07 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:17:24 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:17:33 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:18:39 Bluh :/ 22:20:08 Bluh?! But one of the nice things about common lisp is that you can switch platforms so easily! :( 22:20:21 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:21:03 especially since you're using CFFI, hopefully. 22:23:40 -!- z1l0g [~jgw@216.99.214.24] has quit [Quit: That's it for today] 22:26:21 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 22:27:01 Yuuhi [benni@p54839E80.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:58 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 22:33:34 -!- atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving on a jet plane...] 22:38:27 -!- agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:39:49 -!- [6502] [5e24deb2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.222.178] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:41:58 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:42:30 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 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[~jcazevedo@bl5-132-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 23:23:13 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-pdxpvazygqqnqvqe] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 23:23:20 VieiraN [~VieiraN@187.10.241.67] has joined #lisp 23:24:03 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.180.126] has joined #lisp 23:24:05 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:24:55 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl5-132-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:30:37 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:22 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:31:29 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:34:54 bluesnow [~david@cpe-24-24-160-251.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:35:08 Hi, I'm new to Lisp and I'm using emacs and slime 23:35:26 But whenever I get into the slime debugger and try to exit by typing q or 0, it just says "symbol's value as variable is void" 23:35:29 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:35:41 Any idea what's going on? 23:35:47 that is weird. it doesn't normally do that. 23:36:04 i often has this behaviour 23:36:23 My slime is doing some weird stuff on load up too 23:36:42 I'm using SBCL and it enters the debugging whenever I start slime (looks like an error in one of the files it's loading?) 23:37:04 I can evaluate expressions just fine, I just can't exit the debugger when I type an incorrect expression 23:37:07 bluesnow: do you have other keyboard layout than latin? 23:37:12 bluesnow: how did you get slime? 23:37:22 I used the package manager for emacs24 23:37:45 when I switch to russian keyboar and press the button which is Q in latin layout, the debugger says "buffer is not editable" 23:37:46 antonv: I could switch to a dvorak keyboard layout I think. 23:37:47 ntd [~user@daneel.cc.gt.atl.ga.us] has joined #lisp 23:38:04 Should I reinstall slime? 23:38:15 bluesnow: no need to, I mean I have this error if I use ru keys 23:38:25 bluesnow: get slime from quicklisp 23:39:18 Okay, I'll try that. Is there anything wrong with SBCL 1.0.55? 23:40:04 bluesnow: what is your operating system? 23:40:25 Ubuntu 12.04 23:41:06 then I know nothing wrong about SBCL (in Windows it's better to use SBCL from special branch) 23:46:06 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:20 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl5-132-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 23:47:53 Ottre [ottre@80.82.65.107] has joined #lisp 23:47:53 -!- Ottre [ottre@80.82.65.107] has quit [Changing host] 23:47:53 Ottre [ottre@wikipedia/Ottre] has joined #lisp 23:48:34 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:49:37 Okay, reinstalled slime and it's working now. Thanks! 23:50:20 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 23:50:23 -!- bluesnow [~david@cpe-24-24-160-251.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 23:50:43 -!- theron [~theron@dslb-084-060-180-027.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:05 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:56:49 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:57:39 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has left #lisp 23:58:19 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp