00:00:13 If you like it, just use it to write your software and be happy! 00:00:33 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:00:56 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:02 pjb: FUD is less than harmless 00:02:03 And symetrically, there are a lot of blog entries, or newsgroup posts by lispers who depreciate other programming languages. Programmers using those other programming languages should not feel depressed for that (they should be depressed for using those languages, not that their languages are not popular amongst lisp circles). 00:02:22 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.254.180] has quit [Client Quit] 00:02:38 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-10.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:40 -!- MoneyIsDebt [~moneyisde@183.78.12.184] has quit [Quit: Bye bye now] 00:02:44 nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has joined #lisp 00:03:15 nightfly: notice however that classes are objects (but objects are not classes). (typep (find-class 'standard-class) 'standard-object) --> T 00:04:40 I always refer to "Re: Lisp vs ML" by Erik Naggum when someone posts one of these language critiques -> http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3231686262094385@naggum.net.html 00:08:31 these days I avoid criticizing languages I know nothing about, just saying... 00:08:34 -!- agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:09:02 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:10 i prefer to use languages, not criticize them 00:10:11 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:11:48 Alfa64 [~admin@190.191.176.143] has joined #lisp 00:11:59 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-123-93.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:16:04 lemonodor [4cac1ecd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.172.30.205] has joined #lisp 00:17:06 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:19:22 dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 00:19:22 -!- dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:19:32 agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:24 Nowadays I consider other languages to be DSL, and only complain they're not written in CL. 00:26:01 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:26:05 Here's a proof of concept for having emacs install buttons on numbers in a buffer, so that you can modify them with a slider. http://paste.lisp.org/display/131038 as they like to do in javascript eg. at khan akademy. 00:27:34 quit 00:27:36 -!- waveman [~tim@124-170-25-10.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:28:28 MoneyIsDebt [~moneyisde@183.78.12.184] has joined #lisp 00:30:36 dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 00:30:36 -!- dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:35:05 -!- ebobby [~fms@38.111.144.18] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:35:06 dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 00:36:37 _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:06 Demosthenes [~demo@mc92c36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:12 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:43:26 dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-183-222.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:37 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-183-222.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:47 dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-183-222.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:59 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:46:34 superflit [~superflit@63-225-246-121.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:30 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.254.180] has joined #lisp 00:51:43 mritz_ [~textual@cpe-70-112-3-176.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:18 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 00:55:37 -!- antgreen [~user@70.50.66.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:59:07 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 00:59:24 travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:13 -!- _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:02:17 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 01:03:08 -!- travis_ is now known as _travis_ 01:03:22 <_travis_> blah i still can't get asdf working hah! 01:11:10 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:12:03 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has quit [Quit: PuercoPop] 01:17:51 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 01:19:02 <_travis_> so i found, in asdf.lisp in side quick lisp, where *source-regsitry* is defined and is null. i believe this is where I need to add it... 01:19:51 _travis_: oh, no. just push to that variable in your own code. 01:19:55 .sbclrc, for instance. 01:20:31 <_travis_> ah 01:21:27 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@mc92c36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:21:34 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-68-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 01:22:11 <_travis_> hrm... 01:22:59 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.166.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:33 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:33 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:23:34 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 01:23:56 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:06 <_travis_> i see what you mean. i imagine i need to then tell it to initialize the source directory again? 01:28:20 pretty sure it just works... Or, again, you can just copy stuff under QL's local-projects. 01:28:29 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.86.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:29:18 <_travis_> but then i have to save everything in the local-projects folder, which i really didn't want to do :\ 01:29:18 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-rhzdmrwyuxuawgfl] has joined #lisp 01:31:19 -!- MoneyIsDebt [~moneyisde@183.78.12.184] has quit [Quit: Bye bye now] 01:33:48 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:36:48 <_travis_> ok, at least i got it working when i move everything into local-projects :o 01:37:24 <_travis_> thank you pkhuong, some progress is better than none 01:37:47 you can symlink into local-projects 01:38:06 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 01:38:28 <_travis_> oh yeah… forgot about symlink 01:39:20 <_travis_> someone definitely mentioned that earlier, and i completely ignored it for some reason... 01:41:20 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:41:45 <_travis_> stassats, works like a champ. gracias. 01:42:08 <_travis_> now i can load provided systems, now to figure out how to make my own :) 01:42:43 <_travis_> i'll have to read the quickproject blog post by xach. thanks everyone for the assistance, sorry for being a bit difficult :) 01:43:29 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:45:03 k0001 [~k0001@181.85.46.254] has joined #lisp 01:45:10 pnathan` [~user@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 01:45:43 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-10.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:49 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:49:29 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51:06 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 01:53:45 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[~centipede@70-58-137-175.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:00 -!- _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:16:07 -!- agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:19:01 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:20:47 joekarma [~joekarma@184.151.222.188] has joined #lisp 02:30:51 -!- Guest72929 is now known as xristos 02:33:31 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:34:16 kliph [~user@24-183-96-81.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:35:31 -!- kliph [~user@24-183-96-81.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:52 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 02:43:11 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@70-58-137-175.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:44:21 ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has joined #lisp 02:52:56 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:52:58 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 02:55:00 Alpha64 [~admin@190.191.176.143] has joined #lisp 02:56:02 -!- Alfa64 [~admin@190.191.176.143] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58:45 -!- lemonodor [4cac1ecd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.172.30.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:03:13 redscare [~user@ool-435634f3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:19 -!- benny [~user@i577A1029.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:03:55 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:04:56 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:05:02 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:05:07 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:20 i'm having trouble reasoning through 'double' backquotes. if x is 7, y is 21, why does ``(,,x ,,y) evaluate to `(,7 ,21) instead of `(7 21)? 03:06:33 ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has joined #lisp 03:06:40 my thinking is that the first comma causes 'evaluation' of the second comma which causes evaluation of the variables 03:06:59 redscare: you want ,', 03:08:32 redscare: and it helps to think of it as just wrapping or unwrapping opaque boxes. The rules are simple; it's the interactions that are surprising. 03:08:52 I'm throughly confused by symbol in macro rather than variable 03:08:55 oh i don't actually want to produce `(7 21), i just want to understand /why/ `(,7 ,21) /is/ produced 03:10:04 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:05 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:10:05 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 03:10:07 it's just printed that way 03:10:43 -!- anon119 [~bman@12.104.148.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:10:51 don't commas 'unwrap' the innermost backquote? 03:12:12 so ``(,x ,y) -> `(,x ,y) makes sense. but ``(,,x ,,y) 'unwraps' both levels, so why does a comma still appear in ``(,,x ,,y) -> `(,7 ,21)? 03:12:25 guidj0s [~guidjos@oftn/member/guidj0s] has joined #lisp 03:12:33 -!- guidj0s [~guidjos@oftn/member/guidj0s] has left #lisp 03:12:33 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 03:12:50 phao [phao@177.115.10.143] has joined #lisp 03:13:25 redscare: no, evaluation only unwraps one level of quoting. 03:13:56 ` quotes ` 03:14:07 '`(,x ,y) => `(,X ,Y) 03:14:16 Kron_ [~Kron@83.111.219.33] has joined #lisp 03:15:47 i guess my question is is it the first or second comma that causes x and y to be evaluated? i guess the second? 03:17:31 redscare: right, the inner comma. The innermost quasi-quote is responsible for the outermost unquote. 03:17:49 so i guess also, if commas force evaluation, why doesn't ``(,x ,y) -> `(7 21)? 03:18:18 because shouldn't the interpreter see the commas and decide to evaluate? 03:18:39 what interpreter? 03:18:51 reader 03:18:52 the commas are quoted, I think. 03:19:24 redscare: the innermost quasi-quote is responsible for the outermost unquote. 03:20:22 i think i see, thank you. is that the actual rule used by the reader? 03:20:55 in ``(,x ,y), first, the right ` is processed, it's transformed, say, into (list x y), then, the left `, it's just (quote (list x y)) 03:22:06 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-173-240.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:23:26 redscare: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.22.1290 covers patterns in quasiquotation and *why* they mean what they mean nicely. 03:23:28 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@184.151.222.188] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 03:24:19 thank you 03:25:58 the left #\` is processed first, but it says "let's read further, and upon encountering #\, , do some magic", and proceeds to read stuff, wham, another #\` is encountered, and it says the same thing "see #\, , do magic", so, the latter #\` eats up all the #\, and the first one sees none of it 03:26:21 it's like a stack 03:26:54 ` pushes "ready-to-eat-some-commas", commas pop it 03:27:12 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@83.111.219.33] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 03:27:23 in fact, it is the CL stack of activation records (: 03:27:33 Kron_ [~Kron@83.111.219.33] has joined #lisp 03:29:38 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:31:30 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@83.111.219.33] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:32:10 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:32:30 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:39:29 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:40:13 anon119 [~bman@c-98-238-210-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:44 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 03:46:02 waveman [~tim@124-170-25-10.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:46:40 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-135-78.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:46:41 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:47:55 centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-157-171.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:17 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:30 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-157-171.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:59:15 smanek [~smanek@c-67-180-197-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:19 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 04:00:26 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-183-222.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:01:30 glistle [~glistle@dsl-066-037-092-024.citizip.com] has joined #lisp 04:03:46 So hunchentoot has confused me with how it is supposed to pass in parameters: http://paste.lisp.org/display/131039 04:04:49 lirt [~lirt@94.50.19.150] has joined #lisp 04:05:00 pnathan`: What's wrong with plainly using HUNCHENTOOT:PARAMETER ? 04:05:05 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 04:05:28 loke_erc: what's wrong with not using? 04:06:07 stassats: Because it would enable me to help him. :-) 04:06:12 -!- glistle [~glistle@dsl-066-037-092-024.citizip.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:22 glistle [~glistle@dsl-066-037-092-024.citizip.com] has joined #lisp 04:06:41 *loke_erc* built my own macrology on top of the Hunchentoot dispatchers. 04:07:18 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 04:07:22 pnathan`: var doesn't match foo, really 04:08:35 -!- glistle [~glistle@dsl-066-037-092-024.citizip.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08:45 glistle [~glistle@dsl-066-037-092-024.citizip.com] has joined #lisp 04:08:57 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-21-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 04:09:24 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-21-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:20 loke_erc: nothing, just trying to figure out the best way to do it 04:10:41 ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:10:44 I'm obviously missing something glaring 04:10:53 i just told you! 04:10:59 you're missing even that 04:11:04 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:11:27 -!- k0001 [~k0001@181.85.46.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:13:03 stassats: from what I can tell from the docs, var is the contents of the parameter, and has nothing to do with matching 04:13:18 man, change VAR to FOO in the code 04:13:25 how hard could that be to get? 04:13:44 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:13:49 or ?foo=bar to ?var=bar 04:13:50 because I am interested in understanding, not hacking blindly? 04:15:08 Wait, you think you could just use any parameter name? That's silly, you wouldn't be able to use multiple parameters. 04:15:45 my understanding was when parameter-type was bound to 'string, you got the string after ? 04:15:57 can you read? 04:16:22 have you read everything in http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/#define-easy-handler ? 04:16:36 besides being obvious, it's clearly stated what happens and when 04:16:52 specifically: «Each var will be bound to the value of the GET or POST parameter called real-name (a string) before the body of the function is executed. If real-name is not provided, it will be computed by downcasing the symbol name of var.» 04:17:12 stassats: can you stop being nasty. 04:17:29 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:18:56 Bike: thanks for pointing that out. 04:19:34 well, then it's better to hack blindly if you can't follow simple documents 04:20:52 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:22:54 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-22-155.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:25:40 rj-code [~rj-code@bb121-7-122-125.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 04:27:28 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-169-82-202.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:47 -!- glistle [~glistle@dsl-066-037-092-024.citizip.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:29:51 glistle [~glistle@dsl-066-037-092-024.citizip.com] has joined #lisp 04:35:33 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 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joined #lisp 07:25:36 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:25:57 tiglog [~topeak@61.149.224.245] has joined #lisp 07:26:16 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 07:31:39 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 07:32:52 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 07:33:40 -!- anon119 [~bman@c-67-181-158-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:39:22 DataLink_ [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-184-255-139.lns14.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:39:57 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:42:05 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 07:42:06 -!- [6502] [5e24deb2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.222.178] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:42:19 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.133.177.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:43:12 -!- DataLink_ [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-184-255-139.lns14.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 07:44:52 mskou [~mskou@0x50a277b6.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1109.rdnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:44:54 hi 07:45:33 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 07:45:45 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:47:06 -!- cfy is now known as hamo 07:47:11 -!- hamo is now known as cfy 07:48:21 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 07:51:52 theron [~theron@dslb-084-060-180-027.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:51 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 07:53:20 I would like to call a function which takes a &rest parameter, and this rest parameter should be the value of a list '(:x 13 :y 14). How can this be done? 07:54:02 what, like (fun :x 13 :y 14)? 07:54:32 yes but the params is in a list. 07:54:48 (apply fun '(:x 13 :y 14)) 07:57:14 Bike: yes, thanks got it. (apply #'test '("tmp" :a 1 :b "c")) 07:57:55 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.237] has joined #lisp 07:57:55 Is "tmp" not part of the list? 07:58:17 the function is defined like this: (defun test (template &rest rest) 07:59:09 apply takes a "spreadable argument list", so you can do (apply #'test "tmp" '(:a ...)) and it works. 07:59:57 even better :-) 08:00:33 glad to help. 08:00:36 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: night] 08:01:55 Kaisyu [~Kaisyu@183.109.110.185] has joined #lisp 08:04:36 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 08:05:19 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.254.180] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 08:05:28 -!- Kaisyu [~Kaisyu@183.109.110.185] has quit [Client Quit] 08:13:24 zyfwong [~zyfwong@202.38.79.140] has joined #lisp 08:14:10 -!- zyfwong [~zyfwong@202.38.79.140] has quit [Client Quit] 08:15:05 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-55-137.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 08:17:52 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:19:02 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.219.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:20:45 Xach: your notification changes and some additions + docs by meself and marijn are in Postmodern now, thanks again! 08:20:57 "myself" 08:27:44 -!- bigmeow [~mirror@184.82.217.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:29:56 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:33:53 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:41:20 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 08:47:39 Demosthenes [~demo@mb02c36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:27 springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has joined #lisp 08:49:21 Kaisyu [~Kaisyu@183.109.110.185] has joined #lisp 08:53:20 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-55-137.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 08:53:21 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-30-52.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:55 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-45-15.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:59:57 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-018-228.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:45 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust329.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:06:33 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:07:05 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 09:08:28 -!- lirt [~lirt@94.50.19.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:11:04 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:15:21 I'm generating a list for use with the apply function. When i print the list it looks like (NAME "test" CONTENT "abc") but it should be (:NAME "test" :CONTENT "abc")… But NAME and CONTENT is symbols. Whats the difference between NAME and :NAME and how does i get from NAME to :NAME? 09:15:52 wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:35 -!- jimmy [4086ed57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.134.237.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:20:32 mskou: how do you print it? 09:21:03 using print 09:21:45 (print '(:foo "1" :bar "2")) ==> (:FOO "1" :BAR "2") 09:23:20 the list i'm building is using sb-mop:slot-definition-name to get the name of the key. 09:24:13 mskou: :FOO is the symbol foo in the :keyword package 09:25:09 mskou: if what you do is look at the slot's name (a symbol in some package other than :keyword) and want to yield the keyword symbol with the same name, you need to use intern (i.e (intern slot-name :keyword)) 09:25:36 mskou: but you should really not do that. 09:25:41 KenLZhang [~quassel@202.103.17.16] has joined #lisp 09:25:52 mskou: rather, you should find the initarg that corresponds to the slot (if that is what you do) 09:27:34 fredrik_w [~fredrik@vpn13.hotsplots.net] has joined #lisp 09:29:00 H4ns: will try to do that. Thanks. 09:29:29 mskou: maybe you'll want to describe what you really want to do for some extra advice. 09:29:57 mskou: with the little information that you've given, one could easily conclude that what you do is wrong :) 09:31:34 H4ns: I'm trying to make a list of keyword-symbol and values. The list is extracted from an instance of an object (slots). 09:31:48 mskou: what do you intend to do with that list? 09:32:59 i have a function which generate a template. This function takes a &rest argument. This is where the list should be applied. 09:34:38 mskou: maybe this helps: http://paste.lisp.org/display/131042 09:35:19 mishoo: it seems that mskou wants to create instances from the template 09:35:19 it's not strictly what you asked for but can be changed easily, i.e. if you want keywords then instead of (cons name ...) do (cons (intern (symbol-name name) :keyword) ... 09:35:39 ah, so that he can pass those to make-instance? 09:36:02 hm, that should be even easier then 09:36:54 mishoo: maybe for specific cases, not but not in general. 09:37:06 mishoo: thanks, will try it! 09:37:20 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:37:25 mskou: (ql:quickload "closer-mop") first 09:37:58 -!- Alpha64 [~admin@190.191.176.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:38:19 btw, is there a standard way to do what I do in that paste without closer-mop? 09:39:09 mishoo: closer-mop is the standard way to access the mop across implementations. 09:39:21 alright... thought so 09:41:48 -!- arrsim` [~user@2001:44b8:415c:cc01:6ef0:49ff:fe5e:dedb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:45:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:46:57 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 09:47:18 Rajesh [~Rajesh@117.203.21.231] has joined #lisp 09:47:41 -!- Rajesh is now known as Guest99058 09:48:19 -!- tiglog [~topeak@61.149.224.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:49:18 Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:53:31 disciple [~krishna@117.221.129.86] has joined #lisp 09:54:01 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 09:55:49 guess i should use (first (closer-mop:slot-definition-initargs slot-def)) to get symbol. Seems to do the trick. Thanks for the help and pointers. 09:58:07 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.221.129.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:58:10 mishoo: ahat does this line in your paste mean? (:method ((obj standard-object)) 09:59:18 ah, got it. 09:59:28 mskou: just shortcut for (defmethod ((obj standard-object)) ...) (that would be a toplevel form) 09:59:39 disciple [~krishna@117.207.107.6] has joined #lisp 10:00:21 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-aeb2e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01:07 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ccd6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:02:16 SHODAN [~shozan@c-aeb2e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:03:20 benny [~user@i577A1DEE.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:04:55 -!- Guest99058 is now known as Rajesh_ 10:07:06 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-ukhiugxmuxmksycb] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:07:26 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:08:10 stat_vi_ [~stat@dslb-094-218-018-228.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:23 -!- stat_vi_ [~stat@dslb-094-218-018-228.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 10:08:43 -!- wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:09:41 -!- jtza8 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seconds] 12:01:48 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:02:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:03:31 _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:40 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:25 VieiraN [~VieiraN@187.10.241.67] has joined #lisp 12:17:14 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:40 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-217-231.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:21:07 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-126-72.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:23:26 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:27:58 ice__ [~ice@222.130.142.168] has joined #lisp 12:31:37 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:37:03 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 12:39:01 paul0 [~paul0@186.222.48.210] has joined #lisp 12:41:50 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:42:16 ludston [~patience@CPE-58-166-72-98.lnse5.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:43:33 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-123-93.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:31 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:44:55 bye for now 12:44:59 -!- mskou [~mskou@0x50a277b6.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1109.rdnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:46:24 how would i get format to print out an alist like key --> value? 12:47:39 magnificrab: i think format can't destructure cons cells. 12:47:42 *Xach* can't think of a way, would resort to ~/ in that case 12:47:48 magnificrab: another reason to avoid alists. 12:48:40 -!- VieiraN is now known as Vieiran_ 12:48:43 -!- Vieiran_ is now known as VieiraN_ 12:49:35 -!- VieiraN_ is now known as VieiraN 12:52:49 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 12:54:13 stat_vi 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13:42:21 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:42:47 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 13:43:02 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:43:21 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:44:30 *Xach* names stassats to the Order of the Armed Bear 13:49:19 what are the benefits? 13:50:02 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 13:50:07 Probably get a medal with a cool looking bear on it. 13:50:58 a coat of bears 13:53:13 stassats: free lunches at the Great Lost Bear in Maine 13:53:36 that's too far! 13:54:48 -!- _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:55:22 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@166.137.83.167] has joined #lisp 13:56:12 worth it 13:58:19 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 13:59:29 Last night, I was experimenting at the SBCL REPL with method combinations. I had a :before method for one case. This got mad when I tried to switch to using progn method combination because progn doesn't support :before. 14:00:08 Is there an easy way to forget all methods for a given generic and start over? 14:00:16 clhs fmakunbound 14:00:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fmakun.htm 14:00:31 patrickwonders: unrelated, but is your blog permanently broken? it's failed for me 20 times in a row. 14:00:36 did it move? 14:00:39 or inspect the GF and remove some methods 14:01:16 fmakunbound is even bound to C-c C-u in slime 14:02:31 Thank you. I don't know why I thought I would have to find-method a bunch of times and nuke them individually. 14:02:45 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-135-78.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:02:49 Xach: Hmmm. It should not have moved. 14:03:37 Xach: http://nklein.com/ ? 14:03:49 Xach: Works for me. 14:04:28 http://nklein.com/feed/ - superficially works for me, but my feed fetcher can rarely get it 14:05:34 *Xach* wonders what's up 14:05:41 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:05:56 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 14:06:55 Hmm. Don't know. 14:07:15 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-135-78.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:10:07 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:12:14 -!- chenbing [~user@223.167.94.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:30 chenbing [~user@223.167.94.66] has joined #lisp 14:17:36 Xach: I will try upgrading Wordpress tonight to see if that helps. 14:17:53 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:22 and see if I can dig up anything from the http error logs. 14:19:18 it would be coming from 108.59.2.195 14:21:18 -!- kanru_ [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 14:23:18 kanru_ [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:15 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.219.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:27:07 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 14:28:02 Rajesh [~Rajesh@117.203.21.231] has joined #lisp 14:28:26 -!- Rajesh is now known as Guest86229 14:29:41 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:32:44 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:37:42 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.164.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:40:17 -!- Guest86229 [~Rajesh@117.203.21.231] has quit [Quit: Leaving to Quit] 14:40:20 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 14:41:22 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:41:50 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:42:19 Is there any library that provides a generic way to exit with a given exit code? (i.e. a "trivial" library that gives a platform-independent way of doing SB-EXT:EXIT 14:43:10 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.164.45] has joined #lisp 14:46:57 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:27 tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.62.2] has joined #lisp 14:50:09 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 14:52:26 MoneyIsDebt [~moneyisde@115.164.1.79] has joined #lisp 14:53:38 Rajesh [~Rajesh@117.203.21.231] has joined #lisp 14:53:41 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:54:01 -!- Rajesh is now known as Guest35519 14:54:24 pnpuff [~pnpuff@2001:0:53aa:64c:2c48:2cdd:b0f3:ee3d] has joined #lisp 14:54:28 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@2001:0:53aa:64c:2c48:2cdd:b0f3:ee3d] has quit [Changing host] 14:54:28 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:55:08 _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:40 mritz [~textual@cpe-70-112-3-176.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:56:09 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 14:56:46 mikejunk [~user@c-67-189-106-105.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:48 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:59 -!- piko_ [~piko@ip4-83-240-49-166.cust.nbox.cz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:58:14 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:39 -!- Guest35519 [~Rajesh@117.203.21.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:52 loke: swank has something like that, i think 14:58:55 might not do the code though 15:00:52 -!- NooBlack [~manfred@58.243.178.127] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:50 -!- mritz [~textual@cpe-70-112-3-176.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:02:28 OK, thanks 15:03:19 -!- MoneyIsDebt [~moneyisde@115.164.1.79] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:20 depending on swank is not the best idea 15:05:25 -!- 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[~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:30 jdz [~jdz@89.201.99.128] has joined #lisp 17:09:13 -!- wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:10:36 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:15:07 -!- jdz [~jdz@89.201.99.128] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 17:18:17 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:21:37 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:49 ehu [~ehu@109.35.121.188] has joined #lisp 17:24:12 <_travis_> I have a weird problem with asdf. I made the symlink in local-projects. when i make a new project using quickproject i can call quickload on it, but if i exit slime and relaunch slime it can't find the new project :( 17:24:36 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 17:24:37 <_travis_> it finds everything else just fine in that directory i made the symlink to though. 17:25:42 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:26:12 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:26:41 VieiraN_ [~VieiraN@187.10.241.67] has joined #lisp 17:26:55 -!- bitonic [~user@li146-81.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:20 <_travis_> oh i think i see. the system-indexes.txt doesn't include the path. i guess it loads that file 17:28:37 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:35 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@187.10.241.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:30:10 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:37 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:42 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.232] has joined #lisp 17:34:13 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:34:50 -!- VieiraN_ is now known as VieiraN 17:36:16 _travis_: quickproject temporarily extends the registry with the path to your new project 17:36:30 _travis_: if you don't put it in a path in your asdf registry or that local-projects can see, you have to re-add it 17:36:39 <_travis_> understood 17:36:48 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@166.137.83.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:36:54 <_travis_> i missed the txt file that keeps track of it. adding it in there solved the problem. 17:37:19 you should never have to do that 17:37:28 that file is generated and regenerated automatically 17:37:34 where did you put your project? 17:37:46 <_travis_> ~/Projects/LISP-Tutorials/... 17:38:00 <_travis_> and the local projects is: ~/quicklisp/local-projects/... 17:38:12 Ah, so it was outside of the local-projects tree 17:38:16 <_travis_> yes 17:38:31 <_travis_> i tried to figure out where to add the :tree that is in the blog post on quickproject 17:38:46 <_travis_> but could not figure it out. the configuration file mentioned did not exist, and when i created it it had no impact. 17:38:59 <_travis_> so i went with the symlink method inside local-projects pointing to my projects folder 17:39:15 Unfortunately, that won't work at multiple depth levels. 17:39:19 <_travis_> it then correctly read all of those projects in my projects folder, but since then new ones don't work :( 17:39:35 You can register them manually with (ql:register-local-projects) though. 17:39:51 Sorry it's confusing...I need to write it up and explain how it works and when it doesn't work. 17:40:21 <_travis_> Well i think majority of the issue is with me. I just got a macbook and am not exactly familiar with the OS X filesystem :( 17:41:05 _travis_: if you symlinked each project into ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ it would do the trick. You could add a hook to do that for you, too. 17:41:18 e.g. via http://xach.com/lisp/quickproject/#*after-make-project-hooks* 17:41:42 or add (ql:register-local-projects) to *after-make-project-hooks* or something... 17:41:54 *Xach* isn't sure, always creates project directories directly in ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ 17:43:11 <_travis_> sweet. 17:43:16 <_travis_> that works perfect 17:43:41 <_travis_> when i've actually got projects that are of size, and not just little tutorials, i'll need to reconsider my organization. 17:44:49 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:46:31 symlinks should just be followed by general tools. 17:46:47 Only file system tools may have to deal with symlinks specially, like backup or copying programs. 17:47:36 It is not the symlink-nature but the multiple depth of the directory structure that matters for this case 17:48:11 I see. But passed the symlink, it should just be a matter of using **; instead of *; 17:48:19 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 17:48:35 Now of course, depending on the implementation, there may be further symlinks to process. 17:48:55 I should start writing CDRs. 17:48:56 Yes, that works no problem. 17:51:22 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 17:55:33 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 17:55:59 -!- ered [~ered@108-201-125-162.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:02 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:57:51 ered [~ered@108-201-125-162.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:58 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:54 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.229.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:24 -!- Forty-3 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18:46:16 -!- ivan\_ is now known as ivan\ 18:48:04 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-232-087.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:28 Xach: what source do you use for cl-base64? 18:50:50 http://git.b9.com/cl-base64.git 18:50:53 ok. 18:51:04 Does Kevin still update his software? 18:51:14 from time to time 18:51:36 hmm. how do I contact him? he's referring to an old ABCL symbol in his test suite. 18:51:46 trying to fix cl-test-grid failures :-) 18:52:53 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:31 ehu`: i have had fairly prompt responses by emailing his first name at b9.com 18:53:49 ok. thanks. 18:54:08 I'll use the same approach. 18:54:39 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.229.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:55:02 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:55:58 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 18:56:36 ah. maybe the problem is in kmrcl 18:56:53 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 18:56:56 oh dear 18:56:56 Greetings lispers 18:57:01 poor sven van c10e 18:57:07 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 18:57:17 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 18:57:17 http://stfx.eu/ 18:58:55 Xach: What am I supposed to take away from that website? 19:00:05 -!- ozzloy_ is now known as ozzloy 19:00:07 ThomasH: he was some time ago a seriously CL-ish nerd 19:00:11 that time has passed 19:00:19 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-169-82-202.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 19:00:37 Now he seems smalltalkative 19:00:45 Smalltalk seems to have an interesting development environment. 19:00:51 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:00:52 it's just a fad 19:01:01 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has quit [Changing host] 19:01:01 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #lisp 19:01:44 On a geological time scale. 19:02:25 ehu [~ehu@109.35.121.188] has joined #lisp 19:02:41 if only smalltalk IDEs were less cartoonish 19:03:11 Yeah, they've always struck me the same way. Gives you the impression it's a toy. 19:03:23 well, it was intended for kids 19:04:01 (meaning squeak and relatives) 19:04:50 Compare to CL, which gives the impression it's stuck in the 80s. 19:05:09 I thought the 80s were coming back? 19:05:10 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-123-93.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:06:03 well, squeak looks like from the 80s _and_ for kids 19:14:32 i could never get smalltalk 19:15:00 everything is so odd on pourpose 19:16:50 Hmm, anyone use "nekthuth" with vim? 19:16:54 Like everything else, it's only odd until you get accustomed to it. 19:20:09 Xach: can you use it without vim? 19:20:30 stassats`: I don't know. It looks like it's meant to work together with a vim plugin, but perhaps (like swank) it can be used elsewhere 19:21:10 wasn't the author of nekthuth hanging out here? 19:21:29 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 19:21:35 (it would probably would have more users it had a better name) 19:21:44 His name seems to be Frank Duncan but I don't know his nick. 19:22:06 stassats`: there are a few terrible s->th libraries but not all by the same author 19:22:12 it seems not to be a very original joke 19:22:30 so, it's like "nexus"? doh 19:23:03 yes, ha ha 19:23:22 probably to avoid google lawyers 19:23:35 nexus the7en 19:23:39 nekthuth 19:23:47 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:23:49 *Xach* cringes, please stop 19:24:17 i guess you don't want to know what's in the bokth 19:24:53 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 19:26:09 fourier [~fourier@c80-217-244-174.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:26:52 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:29:08 steffi_s [~marioooh@pool-173-52-246-233.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:12 Another project is called "webthiteth" 19:29:32 ah, but by the same author 19:29:38 *Xach* checks his email for this discussion 19:33:51 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:35:35 -!- snearch [~snearch@p5797A8BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:38:20 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 19:41:08 MoneyIsDebt [~moneyisde@123.136.106.168] has joined #lisp 19:41:38 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 19:42:35 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-68-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:45:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:46:32 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:54:25 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:54:33 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 19:57:19 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-95-153.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:58:19 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 19:59:31 Xach: You called? 19:59:50 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:00:07 Ah, I see your email 20:00:16 mrSpec [~Spec@nor75-12-82-230-65-103.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:17 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@nor75-12-82-230-65-103.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:00:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:00:57 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 20:02:16 of course! frank is named herbieB! 20:03:16 So it seems 20:03:26 a dangerous lack of thorn in the name! 20:04:07 herbieB: so what is up or down with the websites? 20:04:12 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 20:04:21 Xach: They're back up 20:05:26 o frabjous day! 20:06:28 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 20:13:15 wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:18 -!- wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:14:37 o calloo callay 20:14:41 something 20:15:30 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@165.Red-83-49-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:18 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:35 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-55-137.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 20:16:59 abeaumont [~Alfredo@190.Red-83-61-68.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:13 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@pool-173-52-246-233.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 20:20:02 what is a good cvs library for quick/dirty parsing? There are cl-csv, pjb's one, csv-parser, and fare-csv 20:20:10 gpl is no prob, its for internal hacking around 20:20:29 csv not cvs I meant 20:21:02 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:28 do any of them support streamed parsing? 20:22:27 -!- optikalmouse [~user@gw.trapeze.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:30 steffi_s [~marioooh@pool-173-52-246-233.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:46 -!- Alpha64 [~admin@190.191.176.143] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:50 *Xach* smells a survey 20:24:11 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:24:20 Alfa64 [~admin@190.191.176.143] has joined #lisp 20:24:37 i've used fare-csv and it was fine. I wasn't parsing anything in a stream, though. 20:25:08 kennyd [~kennyd@95.168.105.55] has joined #lisp 20:25:31 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:18 -!- impulse__ [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925078992.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:28:36 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925078992.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:30:11 -!- ivan-kan` [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:32:22 csv-parser no good, gives 'unbound var EXTERNAL-FORMAT', appears to be missing comma in do-csv-file macro 20:32:37 cl-csv worked from 1st try, good enough for me, did not tried fare one 20:33:07 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-55-137.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:34:36 _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:46 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.15.142] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:39:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-234.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:40:05 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@pool-173-52-246-233.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 20:42:29 mritz_ [~textual@cpe-70-112-3-176.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:32 Bah! just roll your own. The world needs another CSV parsing library. 20:44:01 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:44:42 you should totally include it in your utility library that you should totally write as well :) 20:45:53 felideon [~felideon@184.170.255.36] has joined #lisp 20:47:20 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 20:48:41 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 20:49:47 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@95.168.105.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:50:06 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-185.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:50:14 don't forget to add an issue in the quicklisp github repo to make sure your utility library is included! 20:50:32 *maxm* detects recent victims of NiH butthurt 20:50:34 -!- naiv_ [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-407-153.w86-200.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:25 -!- Alfa64 [~admin@190.191.176.143] has left #lisp 20:51:41 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:52:01 NiH as in batteries? as in not included? 20:52:23 not invented here 20:52:46 i know, but not capitalized i makes it look different 20:52:49 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-55-137.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 20:54:38 kennyd [~kennyd@95.168.105.55] has joined #lisp 20:54:53 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.46.207] has joined #lisp 20:55:38 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 20:56:18 Nickel Hydrogen. 20:56:25 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 20:56:54 Smalltalk/Lisp don't use no stinking slow GNU ld or gold linker. Are there any other environments that don't use it? 20:57:30 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:58:14 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:14 it's... orthogonal 20:58:18 fasta_: a lot of them really. 20:58:20 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 20:58:23 ruby, python, etc. 20:58:31 Almost nobody uses gld. 20:58:46 ECL is using one or another linker 20:58:46 pjb: what if you don't count the 'dynamic' languages? 20:58:52 it has nothing to do with the language 20:59:06 stassats`: sure, there is just a very strong correlation. 20:59:20 stassats`: that's not meant sarcastically. 20:59:21 and what kind of question is that? do you hold a personal grudge against linkers? 20:59:24 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:59:53 stassats`: I have concluded that they make program development slow. 21:00:10 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 21:00:10 stassats`: you can do incremental compilation, but incremental linking basically doesn't work. 21:00:31 well, maybe you just need a faster computer? 21:00:35 So, it's just a solution which a lot of people happen to be using, but it's really wrong. 21:00:48 stassats`:money cannot buy a machine 2 times faster. 21:01:02 stassats`: (and that's a rough estimate) 21:01:11 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:01:15 yes it can 21:01:42 Why doesn't C have an environment like Lisp? 21:01:46 more money also means you can get expedited shipping, so the purchase itself can be completed faster! 21:01:56 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 21:02:18 I am not talking about the part where the environment is always there. 21:02:26 That's a problem, not a feature. 21:02:38 fasta_: let's not discuss C here, this channel is for Common Lisp 21:03:01 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:03:10 stassats`: why doesn't common lisp have a multi-core RTS? 21:03:14 stassats`: better? 21:03:16 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.46.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:03:19 why do you ask so much question? 21:03:24 s 21:03:30 drugs 21:03:46 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 21:03:49 hmm. then he should come back clean. 21:03:49 stassats`: I am just interested in my original question mostly. 21:03:50 fasta_: incremental linking is called dynamic linking. Use dlopen instead of ld. 21:04:07 fasta_: C has several interactive environments. The latest is cling. 21:04:23 fasta_: see an example of C REPL: http://www.cliki.net/REPL 21:04:25 fasta_: neither of your question belong to #lisp 21:04:46 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.46.207] has joined #lisp 21:04:47 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:04:58 stassats`: well, it has some relationship. 21:05:07 everything has some relationship 21:05:08 pjb: so, you mean that the time to start an application then is linear in the code path of the number of dlopen calls? 21:05:20 C could have an interactive environment like lisp. And lisp could have unsafe batch compilers like gcc. 21:05:29 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 21:05:34 pjb: plus whatever overhead there is for your other code, that is. 21:05:40 irrelevant. 21:05:40 -!- _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:05:58 pjb: ? 21:06:21 How does load time make developing time slow? 21:06:22 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:06:37 pjb: because you need to test things in Turing-Complete languages. 21:06:49 Are we discussing anything else here? 21:06:59 fasta_: what about a good night sleep? 21:07:08 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 21:08:08 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:08:19 pjb: the whole time is 'Save file, Compile files, run binary'. If a large binary takes a day to build, that's a problem. If you can use incremental builds to get it down to a realyl short time for the building, but then the linking takes long, there is still a problem. Hence the questions. 21:08:51 pjb: and surely, this can be fixed. 21:08:54 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 21:09:08 pjb: the question is: who has already done it, such that I can escape these inefficiencies? 21:09:11 fasta_: with dlopen, you can modify code, have it compiled and dynamically loaded in a running program. 21:09:11 not by asking incoherent questions on #lisp 21:09:22 So it's not a day to build it's just like in lisp. 21:09:43 This has been done in Xcode for example, and I've also seen it done with gcc. 21:09:59 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:09:59 wxf [~user@91-64-32-85-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:10:08 But in any case, there are C interpreters or other C interactive environments, so you don't even have to use those dynamic library tricks. 21:10:09 pjb: you mean that someone modified the actual gcc source code to allow for these things? 21:10:12 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.158] has joined #lisp 21:10:23 again go have a look at cling and the REPL I demonstrate in cliki. 21:10:38 fasta_: no, with the vanilla gcc and linux. 21:10:41 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 21:10:51 This is just here but people don't think of using it. 21:11:13 pjb: how is it called for gcc? I have never heard of it. 21:11:19 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.46.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:11:23 pjb: I have heard of cling. 21:11:48 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:11:48 pjb: and I would mostly be interested in a more 'safe' language with such properties. 21:12:30 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 21:13:35 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:14:07 pjb: I cannot find any reference to a dlopen instrumented modularized version of gcc. 21:14:16 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 21:14:17 fasta_: C is "safe". gcc is not. 21:14:46 fasta_: int a[3]; a[-1] --> undefined ; &(a[3]) --> defined a[3] --> undefined. 21:14:54 fasta_: just implement a safe compiler for C. 21:15:06 pjb: C safe? 21:15:09 There are some, commercially available, and used by corporations who need safe programs. 21:15:18 not sure those words go together, hehe 21:15:20 Guthur: almost as much as CL. 21:15:21 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:15:29 pjb: I was thinking of more properties beyond those. 21:15:44 (declaim (safety 0)) --> allows CL implementations to be almost as unsafe as gcc. 21:15:48 pjb: are not most buffer overflow exploits a direct result of C unbounded arrays 21:15:58 Guthur: that is irrelevant. 21:16:04 Guthur: no not of C. Of gcc. 21:16:06 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 21:16:25 A C implementation is allowed to detect out of bound accesses and to signal an exception. It's just undefined. 21:16:46 Just like, in most cases, when (declaim (safety 0)), a CL implementation is allowed to produce the4 same garbage as gcc. 21:16:47 pjb: can you tell me where I can find this magical gcc or xcode version with all the dlopen calls? 21:16:49 of course but they obviously haven't in the past 21:17:11 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:17:37 the was a post on LtU the other day from someone proposing bounded arrays for C 21:17:54 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 21:18:17 A size declarations http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4573 21:18:21 I've seen a demo of this debugging of a running application in Xcode, but I don't have any link. 21:18:59 pjb: so, it's not gcc actually, it's an application built on gcc. 21:18:59 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:19:05 It's not magical, it's just using dlopen and in the case of Xcode Objective-C programs, to use categories. It can't modify everything, but with categories you can add or modify Objective-C methods. 21:19:49 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 21:20:49 pjb: ECL generates C programs and does dynamic binding. Now can we cut it out? It's possible. Period. 21:20:52 Of course, if you want to do that in general, you just use libecl in your C program. 21:21:13 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:21:32 -!- MoneyIsDebt [~moneyisde@123.136.106.168] has quit [Quit: Bye bye now] 21:21:59 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 21:22:28 ehu`: what does it do exactly? 21:22:46 fasta_: go read its documentation and code. 21:23:05 http://ecls.sourceforge.net 21:23:12 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:23:34 Score another one for writing documentation. I found a bug in an application I was about to release because I was documenting the behavior. 21:23:54 Rather, documenting using the application. 21:23:55 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 21:24:51 Is there any good message passing library for Common Lisp? Or otherwise something actor based? 21:25:04 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:25:46 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 21:26:52 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:27:38 lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has joined #lisp 21:28:04 fasta_: there are couple of bindings to ZeroMQ 21:28:24 not sure of any native ones, though I was thinking of such recently 21:28:43 -!- lirt [~lirt@31.162.229.87] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:29:23 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:41 fasta_: actos are equivalent to clozures. 21:33:00 actors 21:34:04 pjb: closures as well, I only mention because you momentarily confused me into thinking of the implementation 21:37:28 what about actorz? 21:38:53 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:43:49 We could design an IDE named Closure Studio. 21:44:50 *sykopomp* is working on an actor library for CL. 21:45:36 -!- fourier [~fourier@c80-217-244-174.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Bye] 21:46:03 fasta_: you can check out cl-muproc and erlang-in-lisp if you feel particularly masochistic, though. 21:46:25 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:54 -!- Vivitron` [~Vivitron`@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:47:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-185.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:47:35 fourier [~fourier@c80-217-244-174.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:48:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-8.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:50:08 Xach: will it ever become a requirement that systems included in QL will need to minimally pass their test suite in SBCL? 21:50:13 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:50:23 *ehu`* notices a library which doesn't pass its own tests on *any* platform 21:50:37 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-126-72.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:52:08 It's not called quicksbcl, but quicklisp. 21:52:36 pjb: currently the criterion for inclusion is being compilable on sbcl. 21:52:58 pjb: that being the case, an additional criterion could be "pass your own tests" 21:53:15 which would help people to assess that the library is actually in working order. 21:53:16 I'm definitely in favor of the later. 21:53:31 But I also have libraries not designed to work on sbcl. 21:53:42 I abhor this sbcl-centrism. 21:54:42 being the co-author of another implementation, I'd like a less sbcl centric world as well. I love the library authors who take time to test on other implementations. 21:54:48 being cool is tough 21:54:58 it helps to weed out the non-portable code and habits. 21:55:00 SBCL is cool 21:55:39 -!- fourier [~fourier@c80-217-244-174.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Bye] 21:56:11 I would support Xach setting a criteria that requires library maintainers to test their own libraries for inclusion in Quicklisp. Then, they show the tests pass for whatever implementations they care to support. 21:56:33 That presents a coordination problem of another sort, though. 21:56:39 Damn dependencies 21:56:51 why? 21:57:10 I mean, if you want to ship a program through Debian you have to make sure the deps are there. 21:57:14 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 21:57:15 same for QL. 21:58:02 But if you are trying to get your package included and you depend on another package that is not in QL, are you responsible for getting the other package in as well or the original author? Either way would be a solution. 21:58:35 Maybe the FreeBSD ports system concept of "Maintainer" would be applicable to QL. 21:58:41 i don't want my libraries to be included into quicklisp, but some people managed to do that instead of me 21:58:44 what should i do? 21:58:59 Really? 21:59:19 What license is it? 21:59:22 i mean, i'm not opposed, i'm not just seeking it 21:59:43 pjb: Same here. I have a couple things on Github that are there for my own access, not really ready for prime-time and probably shouldn't be in QL. 21:59:59 so, should i be responsible for libraries i didn't sign up to maintain on different implementations? 22:00:08 You can have a private git repo. 22:00:14 $$$ 22:00:18 But if you distribute free code, it can end anywhere. 22:00:21 they're in public domain 22:00:47 I don't have a problem with people using the code, I just don't think it is of sufficient quality to be in QL. 22:01:29 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c363e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:30 What if there are dependents? 22:01:39 it's their problem? 22:01:57 People will have to maintain your code :-) 22:02:12 well, i'm for it 22:02:20 It looks to me you haven't thought the meaning of free software through. 22:02:57 Sometimes, I start with a proprietary license, and only switch it to AGPL3 when it's ready. 22:02:59 i don't care about free software fads or other people, solely about myself 22:04:00 that's the spirit. 22:04:10 -!- mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable026.84-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:04:46 it's just so happens that some things i care about coincide with things other people care about 22:05:32 I'm more worried about Xach keeping up with all of the packages in QL on his own. It's probably time to start applying lessons from other package management tools to QL with respect to coordinationg of releases. 22:05:58 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:05:58 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:02 ThomasH: good thing CL is dead and nobodies is writing anything in it 22:06:29 stassats`: Thanks for reminding me, I keep forgetting. 22:06:58 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:04 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 22:07:12 *Guthur* note to self don't depend on stassats` libs, hehe 22:08:09 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust329.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:08:22 you can always fork! 22:08:39 would be my lib then 22:08:56 add the missing pieces, documentation, and i'll then reap the fruits of your work! 22:09:19 Since xach takes a tarball copy of each library, one could consider he's forking them each month. 22:09:23 stassats`: it will be in quicklisp so you wont be able to get it, hehe 22:09:43 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.35.121.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:09:45 it can't materialize inside quicklisp out of nowhere 22:10:01 Yes, xach's doing a git CLONE each month! 22:10:15 git clone = fork. 22:10:37 stassats`: yeah, I jest, I'd probably only be using your stuff if it was already in QL 22:10:38 unless it is particularly special 22:11:03 Guthur: you can always put it into quicklisp! 22:11:22 stassats`: is that not back at me forking again 22:12:04 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 22:12:12 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: pa] 22:12:16 well, you just tell Xach "include this thing" 22:12:17 no forking 22:12:43 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 22:13:06 stassats`: anyway, "Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?" that is QL 22:13:19 top marks if anyone can name the film quote 22:13:41 does google get the top marks? 22:13:56 stassats`: yeah I made it too easy with the quotes 22:14:59 though the big win referenced in that film did not go so well, can only hope QL fairs better 22:16:19 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-169-82-202.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:54 "fares" 22:17:09 Quantum Leap did fare better! 22:17:25 Kryztof: indeed, thanks 22:18:47 stassats`: hehe took me a moment to realise where Quantam Leap came from, had to double check they didn't have the same quote 22:19:48 -!- kanru_ [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:50 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-232-087.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:21:07 -!- wxf [~user@91-64-32-85-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 22:23:46 -!- superflit [~superflit@63-225-246-121.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:57 superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.186] has joined #lisp 22:24:11 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:24:27 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:26:31 hmm asdf gets really unhappy if you delete a package loaded with it 22:26:48 kanru_ [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:57 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:27:23 try asdf:clear-system and then reload it 22:28:09 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:29:07 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:29:11 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:30:20 thanks 22:30:50 -!- kanru_ [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:32:11 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-169-82-202.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 22:34:48 kanru_ [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:47 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:38:27 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:54 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-68-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:43:06 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:44:32 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 22:49:17 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:49:27 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:17 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:57:12 -!- ehu` is now known as ehu 22:58:11 -!- mritz_ [~textual@cpe-70-112-3-176.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:58:41 pskosinski [~pk@public-gprs364834.centertel.pl] has joined #lisp 23:01:48 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:02:39 -!- sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:03:37 kanedank` [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:12 -!- theron [~theron@dslb-084-060-180-027.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:11:25 Hi guys, I've written a function to strip new line characters from a string http://paste.lisp.org/display/131053 23:11:42 Howver, I can't figure out why this function prints out the starting string 23:12:01 (remove #\Newline string)? 23:12:14 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:12:27 Bacteria: there are many issues with the code 23:12:33 Bacteria dont use defvar for local variables 23:12:36 Hmmm, it's a pretty large string 23:12:40 that is a big one 23:13:07 Indeed. I am aware of not using defvar for locals. 23:13:42 I'll see how well (remove) works 23:13:46 begs the question, why did you use it then? 23:15:55 Because I'm still experimenting with the function. I'm not sure what works and what does not. I don't believe it to be such a crime to use it. 23:16:18 it wouldn't even work more than once 23:16:35 stassats`: the remove works, but I get a heap exhaustion. 23:16:47 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:16:48 increase your heap 23:17:13 or shorten your string :) 23:17:22 That will work, but using the element type of 'base-char will fit the string 23:17:27 Can't shorten the string 23:17:33 how long is it? 23:17:36 Human genome doesn't like to be shortened 23:17:52 then use delete 23:17:57 Bacteria: you can slice it probably, and work on chunks? 23:17:59 Bacteria: Well, you could process it in segments  yeah, or delete. 23:18:43 I'll give delete a shot 23:19:07 btw. i'll note the 'Human genome doesn't like to be shortened' in case someone asks me to shorten a string in the future ;) 23:19:28 Hahahahah 23:19:36 arrsim [~user@2001:44b8:415c:cc01:6ef0:49ff:fe5e:dedb] has joined #lisp 23:19:49 but you're a bacteria, the genome should be short 23:20:00 bacterium, rather 23:20:07 stassats`: know your enemy! 23:20:12 Indeed, the E. Coli genome is about 26mb 23:20:41 uh, won't fit on an oldschool floppy disk 23:20:49 -!- kanedank` [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:20:56 Bacteria: does it compress well? 23:21:09 dRbiG: Is that a prevention strategy 23:21:22 Live on a Floppy disk 23:21:39 D: 23:21:47 well, if you have it as A/T/G/C text for some reason, you could convert it to quaternary, of course... 23:22:04 Guthur: haha, certainly not a preservation strategy :) 23:22:37 The file I'm reading in is A/T/G/C/N on lines of 70 characters with a newline char at the end 23:22:37 brown``` [user@nat/google/x-hgbcxrzumbzhdrcs] has joined #lisp 23:22:43 -!- brown`` [user@nat/google/x-gdmyxixvslhsworh] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:23:02 N? 23:23:09 Bike: Newline? 23:23:14 N could be any nucleotide 23:23:22 Sequencing was ambiguous 23:23:27 ah. 23:24:18 so, why are reading the whole into a string before removing newlines? 23:24:21 still, then even if it was completely random you'd only need log(5) bits per nucleotide position. though that's probably irrelevant to whatever you're actually doing 23:26:02 stassats`: I wasn't sure if there was a better approach to it. 23:26:29 is your goal just to remove the newlines? 23:26:30 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:26:30 you could read and process one line at a time? 23:27:01 I could read and process one line at a time. But the eventual processing gets skrewed 23:27:25 So DNA can code for proteins, in a triplet code 23:27:58 So I read the line in, then step through 3 characters and translate it to the protein code 23:28:05 Problem is, the line is 70 characters in length 23:28:16 Well then if you don't have a multiple of three you just keep the remainder for the next line, obviously. 23:28:19 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 23:28:20 Bacteria: Well, you can read the next line when you need it. 23:28:24 i'd guess the question is do you need all data at the same time (like for some sort of matrix operation), or not really all 23:28:38 I don't need all the data at the same time 23:28:56 then loading the whole thing into memory is bad approach 23:29:15 not if you got shitloads of memory 23:29:20 But in terms of speed 23:29:33 Wouldn't it be faster if I have it in memory? 23:29:45 I'm not sure how long my processing will take 23:29:48 it would be, yes 23:30:11 it depends 23:30:15 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:19 Yeah, true. 23:30:31 loading and then processing, or loading and processing 23:30:38 Bacteria: You could have one process reading and putting it into a queue, and another popping and processing. 23:30:54 and make it parallel 23:31:19 That could also work 23:31:22 which is, I believe, something like how our cells do it. inspiration! 23:31:42 If your processing is faster than reading, then the queue will never back up, and if the reading is faster, you could have a max queue size that causes the reader to pause for a bit, so you don't blow the heap. 23:31:53 but then, it begs the question, why lisp? 23:31:59 Language of the gods 23:32:08 dRbiG: why not lisp? 23:32:11 Thought it would be fitting 23:32:23 Bacteria: and besides that? 23:32:25 And I wanted to use lisp on a project so I could learn more 23:32:52 I could have quite easily done this in C or python. 23:33:02 stassats`: and the above is a very good answer to my question :P 23:33:18 Hahahah 23:33:29 the question was pointless anyway 23:33:40 for you 23:33:46 for #lisp 23:33:54 most probably true 23:35:34 Awesome. I'll do some testing with speeds and see if parallelising is worth the time. 23:35:40 Thanks a lot for the help! 23:35:49 write a sequential working version first 23:35:58 Definitely 23:36:15 or try erlang? 23:36:23 dRbiG: please stop 23:36:26 Hahahahah 23:36:30 stassats`: stop what? 23:36:39 what exactly 23:36:41 whatever is that you're trying to do 23:37:18 i'm just saying/asking what i think 23:38:05 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:38:36 you may agree or not, you may listen or /ignore 23:39:16 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 23:39:20 this channel is about lisp, it's very weird to see people advocating different languages in here 23:39:48 just mentioning is not advocating, at least by my standards 23:40:48 saying "or try erlang" is like saying "lisp is not suited for this, erlang would do a better job" 23:41:02 just because erlang is associated with "parallel, thousand threads, uhhh" 23:41:07 that is what you think 23:41:14 no 23:41:27 i was thinking along the lines of pattern processing 23:41:44 so do it in snobol, obviously. 23:42:07 if you think that can really help, why not? 23:42:23 i haven't written anything in eralng 23:42:27 and snobol sound funny 23:42:37 it shows 23:42:41 indeed :D 23:45:02 ok, putting that aside but still being around 23:45:46 afaik (but i know little, mind you) threads in lisp work only under sbcl? 23:45:51 am i right? 23:46:03 uh, no. 23:46:08 completely wrong 23:46:32 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 23:47:02 good. i remember seeing something like bordeaux-threads as a dependency for something else, is that relevant? 23:47:25 it's a compatibility layer over the various implementations' thread APIs, yeah 23:47:59 so actually that would be the package to check out, good 23:50:20 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.254.180] has joined #lisp 23:51:47 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:48 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:51:48 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 23:52:54 -!- paradoja [~paradoja@acceso-cmp174-225.lpa.idec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:53:15 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:47 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-68-2.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 23:55:26 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:57:41 stassats`: though i'm still intrigued by that hostility when i've mentioned another language that i just know that exists and has feature x and maybe y :) any particual reasons? and that the chanles is #lisp is not that good 23:58:38 or is that misspellings are irritating you that much? :) 23:59:48 -!- tsuru``` is now known as tsuru`