00:01:48 ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has joined #lisp 00:02:07 -!- mast` [~alex@unaffiliated/mast/x-9924406] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:03:20 kanru` [~kanru@111-249-156-70.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:42 -!- tvaalen [~r@67.217.170.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:03:55 -!- mickbeaver [~mickbeave@216-136-25-2.static.twtelecom.net] has left #lisp 00:07:43 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:51 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:24 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-21-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 00:08:25 Posterdati [~quassel@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 00:08:46 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-21-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:51 -!- lirt [~lirt@90.151.239.18] has quit [Quit: lirt] 00:11:07 -!- andres-v [~andres-v@centraltelefonica.fruno.com] has left #lisp 00:11:29 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:11:51 andres-v [~andres-v@centraltelefonica.fruno.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:21 mickbeaver [~mickbeave@216-136-25-2.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:48 -!- atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving on a jet plane...] 00:17:00 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129063152.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 00:19:02 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:15 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:21:52 -!- anon119 [~bman@12.104.148.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:23:04 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:24:37 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 00:24:37 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:26:19 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.246.119] has joined #lisp 00:32:21 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 00:33:06 -!- kwmiebach [kwmiebach@37-188-126-213.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:34:15 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:34:40 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 00:39:14 wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-153-233.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:41:11 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:41:44 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 00:42:44 -!- wakeup_ [~max@xdsl-89-0-72-121.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:42:52 -!- hagish [~hagish@e181021043.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:43:50 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:50:19 -!- andres-v [~andres-v@centraltelefonica.fruno.com] has quit [Quit: andres-v] 00:51:30 -!- kanru` [~kanru@111-249-156-70.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:30 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-102-104.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:30 -!- p_l|ssh-broke [~pl@host-78-146-184-254.as13285.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:30 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:30 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.62.2] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:30 -!- getoffmalawn [~getoffmal@CPE-124-191-133-14.wzyy1.woo.bigpond.net.au] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:30 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-148-61.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:30 -!- adeht [void@flash.ignite.lol.vc] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:53:08 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:55:37 -!- vaus [~vaus@180.Red-83-61-39.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: vaus] 00:55:41 -!- dmx [~dmx@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:55:50 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 00:55:55 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:58:00 kanru` [~kanru@111-249-156-70.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:00 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-102-104.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:58:00 p_l|ssh-broke [~pl@host-78-146-184-254.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:00 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:00 tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.62.2] has joined #lisp 00:58:00 getoffmalawn [~getoffmal@CPE-124-191-133-14.wzyy1.woo.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:58:00 ASau [~user@95-26-148-61.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 00:58:00 adeht [void@flash.ignite.lol.vc] has joined #lisp 01:01:04 -!- p_l|ssh-broke [~pl@host-78-146-184-254.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:01:28 p_l|ssh-broke [~pl@host-78-146-184-254.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:47 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:14 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.62.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:22 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.32.62.2] has joined #lisp 01:08:03 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.201.20.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:08:12 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 01:09:27 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:09:43 disciple [~krishna@117.201.20.15] has joined #lisp 01:12:22 tsuru```` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-196-139.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:33 -!- tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-95.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:15:54 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:17:18 -!- agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:24:00 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.201.20.15] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 01:25:24 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28:05 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:08 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:37:41 -!- mickbeaver [~mickbeave@216-136-25-2.static.twtelecom.net] has left #lisp 01:40:49 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 01:43:39 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:46:04 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@183.46.13.227] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:46:21 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:55 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:51 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:58:07 _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:06 -!- wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-153-233.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:59:51 <_travis_> Maybe someone can help me. I'm trying to load the spam assassin spam/ham emails using sbcl so i can process them through the spam filter I 'wrote' (it's the one in practical common lisp). So it's my first real project, and I can't figure out how to fix this error. It throws an error with an octet number when reading the files, saying it cannot read it, then :EXTRENAL-FORMAT :UTF-8. Is that telling me it's trying 01:59:51 <_travis_> to read it in UTF-8 and can't? or that it can't read it because it's in UTF-8? I tried to set with-open-file to use :external-format :utf-8, so I imagine it's the former? 02:00:47 yes, it's using utf-8 and can't decode the present bytes as utf-8 02:00:51 <_travis_> It's a trivial question, but i cannot figure it out. I almost moved on but I feel it's important to understand what the error is here. 02:01:12 <_travis_> Ok. So how do I figure out what encoding to use to read the file? 02:01:21 <_travis_> I'm on debian btw. 02:01:27 _travis_: as a general rule, you'll have better luck pasting errors verbatim than paraphrasing them, especially when you don't understand them thoroughly. 02:01:39 whatever encoding it was encoded with 02:01:52 <_travis_> Ralith: Thank you! I will use pastebin for future cases. 02:01:57 and what Ralith said, because the actual error is quite comprehensible 02:02:22 _travis_: one approach would be to not try to decode the mail content and just run your filter on bytes 02:02:43 that way you don't need to care if the input mis-declares its encoding etc. 02:02:59 that's a good suggestion, assuming that you don't get a lot of english text in non-ASCII-superset encodings. 02:03:02 <_travis_> well, I originally wasn't trying to. I used the code as it was written in the book. I only started passing :external-format when it started giving the error. Let me get the actual error. 02:03:08 properly decoding varied content is a huge PITA. 02:03:37 _travis_: if you don't specify the external format, one will be defaulted to; you have to take extra measures to read as bytes. 02:03:45 <_travis_> for reference, this is where I got the files from: http://spamassassin.apache.org/publiccorpus/ 02:03:59 <_travis_> Ralith: Ah thats right, it uses the regular file system. 02:04:22 <_travis_> Excuse me, it uses whatever the file system uses as a default. 02:04:39 filesystem doesn't care 02:04:43 I don't think most filesystems even know what an encoding is. 02:04:51 iirc, the CL impl provides the default. 02:05:12 <_travis_> Oh. 02:05:19 (see above for why filesystems might want to avoid the problem of encodings entirely) 02:06:09 filesystems don't care about it at all, so there's no need to avoid anything 02:06:43 <_travis_> thank you for correcting me. i see where i misread/understood the spec, it uses the implementation default. 02:06:50 the not caring about it at all is the act of avoidance I'm referring to :P 02:07:10 that is, caring, whatever the motivation might be, would open a can of worms. 02:08:18 filesystems only care about the encoding of metadata 02:11:52 <_travis_> Here is my stupid error that I cannot figure out: http://paste.lisp.org/+2T28 02:12:31 didn't you just figure it out? 02:13:55 <_travis_> well, yes. 02:13:59 <_travis_> kind of. 02:14:29 <_travis_> i know that the problem is that the default for my implementation is utf-8, I still have no idea how to figure out what the correct encoding is to pass. 02:14:40 either use a single byte encoding which encodes all byte-range, or use bytes directly 02:16:15 _travis_: I'd recommend getting a simplified version of the data you're loading that is only in one encoding 02:16:26 You're loading spamassasin's db, right? 02:16:27 *|3b|* wouldn't be surprised if there was no 'correct' encoding, might vary per message, and many are probably incorrectly labelled, or not labelled at all, or invalidly encoded to start with 02:17:07 |3b|: to be specific, I suspect spamassasin has training examples in multiple encoding taken from real spam 02:17:27 latin-1 would work fine 02:17:56 so there will be at least ASCII, ISO-8859-{1,2,15}, KOI-8, UTF-8 and some of the windows weirdness CPxxx 02:18:10 <_travis_> Yes, those are spamassasin's 02:18:37 <_travis_> p_l|ssh-broke: you are correct. their db is built from real messages taken from multiple systems. 02:19:03 _travis_: well, you can try separating them message by message and pushing it through recode 02:19:05 <_travis_> i'm trying to read how to just read at the byte level. this is my first time reading files :o 02:19:28 just pass :external-format :latin-1 and be done with it 02:19:29 <_travis_> I'm sorry - signle byte encoding. as suggested by stassats 02:19:39 anon119 [~bman@c-98-238-210-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:56 might work, yes 02:20:21 will work 02:20:27 <_travis_> latin1 definitely worked. 02:20:35 <_travis_> it's processing now. o.O 02:21:12 <_travis_> in hind sight there was no need to load the entire database... there's quite a bit of email in there... 02:21:13 *pavelpenev* hates it when people send him windows-1251 encoded text files 02:22:35 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-98-92-29.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:38 who sends text files? screenshots inside doc is all the rage nowadays! 02:23:09 pavelpenev: no problem: (setf CUSTOM:*DEFAULT-FILE-ENCODING* charset:windows-1251) 02:23:12 #+clisp 02:23:21 stassats: it happens 02:23:35 pjb: wrote a python script to reencode them 3 or 4 years ago 02:24:02 i python script? 02:24:15 what happened to iconv -f cp-1251? 02:24:20 stassats: before I was enlightened 02:24:54 Does anybody here have experience deploying an image that has swank preloaded? I suddenly get "Can't locate module" errors whenever I try to connect to it nowadays 02:24:55 Phoodus, memo from pjb: The contents of *MODULES* just means that PROVIDE has been called. 02:24:55 stassats: didn't know that existed :) 02:25:22 Phoodus: it loads them on connect 02:25:25 (and yeah, I know about how stuff gets added to *modules*, but the check seems to fail) 02:25:41 load them preemptively 02:26:41 what's the command for that? I've tried a few (manual swank-require, swank-loader:init :load-contribs t) 02:26:55 swank-require 02:27:05 ok, I'll try again 02:27:37 pavelpenev: iconv 02:28:14 :load-contribs t makes it load only predefined contribs 02:29:00 (defun require (module &optional file) (if file (progn (load file) (push module *modules)) (nostril-dragons))) 02:29:03 yeah, I'm going to have to cycle this a few times to see what's all necessary. swank-require doesn't expand slime-fancy 02:29:22 sorry, I meant: (defun require (module &optional file) (unless (member module *modules*) (if file (progn (load file) (push module *modules)) (nostril-dragons)))) 02:29:42 well, you can smarten up and see the contents of *modules* of a connected slime 02:30:23 (remove-if-not (lambda (x) (alexandria:starts-with-subseq "SWANK" x)) *modules*) 02:30:57 a call to string may be useful. 02:31:02 *Phoodus* is dealing with path issues, as during image build the contribs aren't being found 02:31:17 pjb: nope 02:31:31 unless you meant about your snippet 02:31:46 Ah, you're right. 02:31:54 -!- adeht [void@flash.ignite.lol.vc] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:32:04 I thought they'd keep symbols or whatever like in *features*, but *modules* is a list of string. 02:32:42 _death [void@flash.ignite.lol.vc] has joined #lisp 02:35:09 Phoodus: you can modify swank::*load-path* if you wish 02:35:09 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-98-92-29.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:35:49 <_travis_> stassats, p_l|ssh-broke: thank you for your help earlier. i 02:36:34 <_travis_> also thank you kpreid and Ralith 02:37:18 lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:22 Phoodus [~foo@ip68-98-92-29.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:46 yep, emacs is setting up swank::*load-path*, so I'm going to have to chain the paths in from my make somewhere 02:39:26 why not use (swank-loader::contrib-dir swank-loader::*source-directory*) instead? 02:39:27 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip68-98-92-29.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:40:49 swank-loader:*source-directory* even 02:43:26 pierre__ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-102-104.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:43:47 -!- sellout [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:44:10 sellout42 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:49 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-102-104.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:53:16 well, if you're able to do using that, then initializing swank::*load-path* initializing should not be required 02:53:28 which means that you screwed up swank loading process at some point 03:00:30 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:04:00 -!- benny [~user@i577A704A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:14:06 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 03:15:37 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16:10 ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:16:24 andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has joined #lisp 03:17:43 _travis_2 [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:03 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:19:54 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 03:25:24 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 03:26:49 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.55.157] has joined #lisp 03:27:21 -!- andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has quit [Quit: andres-v] 03:29:48 Tapioco [~quassel@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 03:30:07 -!- Posterdati [~quassel@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:30:42 andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has joined #lisp 03:31:03 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:32:27 sellout421 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:30 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:32:37 -!- sellout421 is now known as sellout 03:33:00 -!- tsuru```` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-196-139.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:38:33 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:38:41 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:42:45 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:43:35 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:44:31 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has joined #lisp 03:53:04 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 03:55:59 -!- mritz_ [~textual@cpe-70-112-3-176.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:56:07 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:02:25 -!- andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has quit [Quit: andres-v] 04:06:34 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:11:31 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: actually, gone] 04:13:40 chenbing [~user@223.167.92.4] has joined #lisp 04:15:24 if a medium handler-bind has already handler a condition/error use one restart , may upper handerl-bind same condition/error call different restart? 04:15:27 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:41 hmmm 04:17:43 I don't think so 04:18:17 I think conditions bubble up a bit like VMS ones, except without unwinding 04:22:58 I am reading PCL , skip-log-entry ,use-value, repair-fixed restart three restart are located same condition 'malformed-log-entry, so different handler-bind seems has little meaning ,since one handler-bind already solve the err/condition 04:25:05 mindCrime__ [~prhodes@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:30:07 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.55.157] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 04:31:36 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.55.157] has joined #lisp 04:32:51 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.55.157] has quit [Client Quit] 04:34:53 or may i say , one handler-function can invoke multiple restart? 04:35:05 Not at the same time. 04:36:42 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:37:46 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 04:37:58 chenbing: http://paste.lisp.org/+2T2A 04:39:48 and http://paste.lisp.org/+2T2A/1 04:40:33 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 04:45:00 thanks pjb , I'm reading 04:47:17 runciter [~mrw@c-71-204-145-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:20 frankly i don't understand now , but i will save this codes 04:51:25 basically, invoke-restart jumps to the corresponding restart in the dynamic scope. the trick is that handler-bind calls the handler in the dynamic scope of the error, not in the lexical scope of the handler-bind. (contrarily to handler-case). 04:55:04 Vicfred [~Grothendi@189.143.130.110] has joined #lisp 04:56:35 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 04:57:03 pjb is a lisp guru 05:08:36 I see ,although one handler can't invoke mutiple restart directly , but it can choice which one is the executer 05:10:22 and handler can do its own staff 05:15:33 kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.19] has joined #lisp 05:15:33 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.19] has quit [Changing host] 05:15:33 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:17:04 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:17:22 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:00 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:32:46 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:39:20 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:47:50 lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:32 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: all hope lost] 05:52:59 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 05:58:07 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:59:15 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:00:23 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:37 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 06:02:39 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-9-231.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:02:42 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Client Quit] 06:02:59 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 06:05:13 benny [~user@i577A8582.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:07:31 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:10:05 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:12:21 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-198.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:14:23 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 06:19:13 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:20:04 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:20:25 -!- _travis_2 [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:23:58 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:28:39 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 06:32:37 alvis [~user@tx-184-6-177-129.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:33 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:54:26 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:56:57 wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:47 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 06:58:47 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 06:58:47 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 07:00:07 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.237] has joined #lisp 07:04:38 jewel_ [~jewel@196-210-172-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:06:09 -!- anon119 [~bman@c-98-238-210-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:07:14 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 07:07:49 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:10:09 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 07:10:35 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:56 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 07:10:57 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.2] 07:12:13 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12:30 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 07:18:26 gmlk [~gmlk@92.69.203.3] has joined #lisp 07:18:39 -!- gmlk [~gmlk@92.69.203.3] has quit [Client Quit] 07:22:58 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-234-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:07 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: good idea] 07:25:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:25:37 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:26:53 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-126-72.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:17 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:29:49 alvis` [~user@tx-184-6-177-129.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 07:31:40 -!- alvis [~user@tx-184-6-177-129.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:33:18 wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:34 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 07:36:45 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.32.62.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:38:58 -!- runciter [~mrw@c-71-204-145-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:40:55 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:50:05 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-9-231.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:56:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.55.89] has joined #lisp 07:56:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.55.89] has quit [Changing host] 07:56:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:59:54 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-9-231.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:00:40 anon119 [~bman@c-67-181-158-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:31 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-9-231.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:04:56 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-18-91.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:07:28 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 08:08:24 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-61-54.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 08:13:03 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 08:13:19 disciple [~krishna@117.207.109.185] has joined #lisp 08:15:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-169.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:16:58 tvaal [~r@67.217.170.35] has joined #lisp 08:22:50 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 08:26:44 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-030-003.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:06 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:35:24 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:36:10 peter__ [~peter@91-64-32-85-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:36:32 #lisp 08:36:34 peter 08:36:43 exit 08:36:47 -!- peter__ [~peter@91-64-32-85-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 08:42:28 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:42:31 bitonic [~user@host53-122-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:43:03 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-030-003.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:45:01 -!- anon119 [~bman@c-67-181-158-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:49:21 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.190] has joined #lisp 08:53:00 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 08:53:27 -!- jewel_ [~jewel@196-210-172-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:57:44 _pw_ [~user@91-64-32-85-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:01:08 -!- _pw_ [~user@91-64-32-85-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 09:02:07 -!- tvaal is now known as tvaalen 09:02:59 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 09:07:45 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-18-91.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:08:41 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 09:17:30 -!- mike4_ [~mike4_@gateway/tor-sasl/mike4/x-38362156] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:20:51 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:21:17 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:22:57 jesusito [~user@92.59.250.1] has joined #lisp 09:24:47 X-02 [~kohei@pon036-189.kcn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:34:20 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.129.166] has joined #lisp 09:44:48 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-168-219.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:35 anybody from cl-test-grid around? 09:48:29 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-18-91.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:51:48 agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:16 francogrex [~user@109.130.46.24] has joined #lisp 09:59:27 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:00:46 -!- agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:01:56 wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:19 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:21 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-23-55.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:03:47 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:04:32 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 10:04:37 Vivitron` [~Vivitron`@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:54 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 10:06:40 boyscare1 [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:58 vaus [~vaus@180.Red-83-61-39.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:07 -!- wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 10:07:12 wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:22 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:07:32 djinni`_ [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 10:09:02 -!- CrazyEddy [~Physaria@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:09:02 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:09:02 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:09:02 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:09:02 -!- djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:09:03 -!- boyscare1 is now known as boyscared 10:09:05 axion1 [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:09:57 -!- nightfly [~sage@sagenite.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:11:11 CrazyEddy [~unlearned@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 10:11:15 jdmssmkr [~user@78-23-137-2.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 10:12:23 -!- jdmssmkr [~user@78-23-137-2.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:55 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:14:14 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:16:02 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 10:16:14 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:17:04 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.46.24] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:22:36 -!- p_l|abdn [~pl@web1.rootnode.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:21 -!- jesusito [~user@92.59.250.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:34:45 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:34:59 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:39:37 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 10:41:34 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:46:53 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 10:51:24 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:52:02 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 10:58:42 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 11:02:41 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has left #lisp 11:02:48 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 11:03:29 Is there the equivalent of emacs' edebug in CL? (It does step by step debugging.) 11:06:06 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:06:42 ivan-kanis: depends on the implementation. 11:06:52 ivan-kanis: some step better than others. 11:07:15 I have dabbled with SBCL and LispWorks 11:07:30 Xach: couldn't find what I was looking for 11:07:55 I never used a stepper, so I don't miss that sbcl's doesn't seem to work. I don't know much more than that, sorry. 11:08:26 Xach: that's OK, I was just wondering 11:08:35 I usually debug in other ways, like adding breaks and compiling with high debug. 11:09:51 I am surprised there is no equivalent, I helped me understand elisp 11:10:13 It helped... 11:11:10 it seems to be a frequent desire, but it seems that nobody who could make it work nicely for sbcl is available to do it. 11:20:23 -!- vaus [~vaus@180.Red-83-61-39.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: vaus] 11:30:02 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.135.160] has joined #lisp 11:30:13 ivan-kanis: the standard defines the STEP macro, but I agree with Xach. It's possible that implementations which support both interpretation and compilation step better for non-compiled forms too 11:32:19 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 11:34:27 hmm I just tested with SBCL and it skipped the whole form at the next step command 11:34:27 for just stepping sbcl in slime seemed pretty nice to me; it highlights the source form of the step and and gives the stack trace and a restart to continue stepping, but I don't know what edebug provides 11:35:05 I then tested using ECL in interpreted mode which stepped decently, but with a very primitive interface, then I tried with compiled code and it skipped like SBCL 11:35:05 you want the step-into restart not step-continue, compiler setting may apply 11:35:17 good morning all lispers! 11:40:02 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:40:06 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-168-219.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:40:42 i.e. http://paste.lisp.org/display/130983 11:42:31 on a form it's possible to use another command than :s to print a more complete form, but I've not seen a command to display variables and their values 11:42:55 -!- getoffmalawn [~getoffmal@CPE-124-191-133-14.wzyy1.woo.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 11:43:20 ivan-kanis: AFAIK, slime cannot do step by step debugging. Most CL implement the STEP macro to do that, but some don't. Therefore I implemented com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp.stepper. 11:43:31 simplechat [~simplecha@ppp121-44-107-164.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:32 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@ppp121-44-107-164.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:43:32 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 11:44:16 ivan-kanis: http://www.gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/lisp 11:45:02 phadthai: there are step into and step over commands usually. 11:45:10 clisp stepper is fine. 11:45:28 I didn't try clisp but it doesn't surprise me 11:45:32 Vivitron`: my stepper instruments the code, so you can step compiled code ;-) 11:45:51 (but you must have compiled it with my stepper package instead of CL). 11:46:38 stepper is portable? 11:47:18 It's written in Conforming Common Lisp. That's what com.informatimago.common-lisp means. 11:47:23 nice :) 11:47:43 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@75-145-119-42-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:48:19 But it's very recent. clone git informatimago into ~/quicklisp/local-project/com/ 11:48:46 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-61-54.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 11:48:47 then remove ~/quicklisp/local-projects/system-index.txt and restart quicklisp. 11:49:55 (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp.stepper) (defpackage :my-program (:use :cl-stepper))  11:52:02 pjb: there should be no need to remove system-index.txt 11:52:07 pjb: the solution to instrument the code is actually what I recently started thinking as a solution for ABCL's stepper. 11:52:32 pjb: and if there is a situation where it "works", the better solution is (ql:register-local-projects) 11:55:16 -!- wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:59:13 pjb: thanks, it's good to know 11:59:20 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 12:00:10 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:54 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-168-219.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:02:45 Forty-3 [~seana11@75-145-119-42-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:09 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:06:03 hello 12:10:29 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-168-219.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:10:33 Xach: ok, register-local-projects. Since it didn't pick up automatically my new asd (thru a symlinked directory, in ccl). 12:11:10 pjb: ccl was updated to fix that issue. what version of ccl are you using? 12:11:30 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:12:52 tritchey [~tritchey@ip-64-134-226-163.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:10 "Version 1.8-store-r15418 (Darwinx8664)" 12:14:14 pjb: Neat. Your trace option is pretty cool. 12:14:41 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@ip-64-134-226-163.public.wayport.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:16:13 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:16:49 pjb: hmm. it should work ok in 1.7 12:16:51 1.8 i mean. 12:17:11 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 12:19:04 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 12:21:52 paradoja [~paradoja@237.Red-83-61-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:19 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:11 mike4_ [~mike4_@gateway/tor-sasl/mike4/x-38362156] has joined #lisp 12:25:26 theron [~theron@dslb-084-060-180-027.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:59 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.246.119] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 12:28:28 nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has joined #lisp 12:30:13 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-145-245.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:33:20 eni_ [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 12:35:40 -!- Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:39:00 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:41:52 Guthur [~user@host86-160-241-11.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:53:16 jathd [~user@mon69-5-88-169-253-165.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:51 -!- jathd [~user@mon69-5-88-169-253-165.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 12:54:48 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:57:32 ludston [~user@CPE-58-166-72-98.lnse5.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:59:58 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 13:02:07 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:07:34 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.109.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:08:07 disciple [~krishna@117.207.109.185] has joined #lisp 13:13:00 zodiac1111_ [~zodiac111@101.68.106.210] has joined #lisp 13:14:23 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-234-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:15:26 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:15:35 andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has joined #lisp 13:16:30 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.135.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:21:33 vaus [~vaus@180.Red-83-61-39.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:35 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.26.224] has joined #lisp 13:22:01 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:22:02 -!- eni_ [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:22:12 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 13:26:43 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 13:26:54 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:27:45 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B74F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:52 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 13:31:03 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 13:31:26 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 13:36:14 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:36:17 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:36:51 the test is to see if (directory "/home/user/quicklisp/local-projects/**/*.asd") returns the thing you need 13:38:26 lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:28 imho simply relying on **/* is design mistake.. Need to ignore hidden dirs, and whats not.. Seen a guy spend a day debugging cp -rp proj proj.bak in here, and was bitten myself by same problem a few times 13:38:48 -!- mindCrime__ [~prhodes@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:38:52 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 13:39:27 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:40:16 for example on linux, everywhere a conf.d/* type setup there always reasonable defaults to ignore *.bak, *.rpmnew and such 13:42:38 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-61-54.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:44:12 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:20 maxm: well, it's actually that I have high expectations. Once upon a time, I had a hook that translated any system with dots in it, such as com.informatimago.a.b.c into a path #P"PACKAGES:COM;INFORMATIMAGO;A;B;C.ASD" so systems were instantly "detected" without a need for symlinks or system-index.txt files. 13:47:45 It seems quicklisp doesn't rebuild its system-index.txt file when it can't find an asd file. 13:47:58 It's not a problem of symlinks or directories. 13:49:06 so develop a nice hierarchical packages patch for quicklisp, and I'm sure there are enough dot-people to pester Xach into accepting it 13:49:10 Kuloto [~mro@176.20.pool.kuban.skylink.ru] has joined #lisp 13:49:59 -!- Kuloto [~mro@176.20.pool.kuban.skylink.ru] has left #lisp 13:50:57 -!- pskosinski is now known as idklaze 13:51:05 -!- idklaze is now known as pskosinski 13:54:49 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 13:56:03 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 13:56:14 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.166.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:08 pjb: can you write me an email with the details? 14:05:12 -!- andres-v [~andres-v@186.176.35.186] has quit [Quit: andres-v] 14:06:13 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 14:07:09 Xach: ok. 14:08:03 -!- mike4_ [~mike4_@gateway/tor-sasl/mike4/x-38362156] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:14:06 jathd [~user@mon69-5-88-169-253-165.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:46 A new swank problem? http://paste.lisp.org/+2T2H Didn't change anything (not updated quicklisp or anything), and I got this error :-? 14:16:56 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-220-48.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:15 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:18:11 -!- vantage|home is now known as vantage 14:19:27 -!- vantage [~vantage@109.131.26.224] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:20:38 mike4_ [~mike4_@gateway/tor-sasl/mike4/x-38362156] has joined #lisp 14:22:08 mindCrime__ [~prhodes@24.106.207.82] has joined #lisp 14:23:09 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 14:23:10 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:23:47 _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:56 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 14:25:34 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:25:44 pjb: did you load slime-indentation? 14:25:45 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:56 pjb: press continue 14:26:57 jathd: Yes. I have: (slime-fancy slime-xref-browser slime-asdf slime-banner slime-repl slime-indentation slime-fuzzy slime-autodoc slime-presentations slime-presentation-streams) or if it fails (slime-fancy slime-indentation). 14:27:13 stassats`: I did, it worked. 14:27:40 emacs sends indentation information for ccl too early 14:27:42 for some reason 14:27:47 and it's non-deterministic 14:27:48 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:28:08 Perhaps I've got a rc file taking too much time? 14:28:39 I'm currently loading my stepper in the rc file ;-) 14:35:49 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18babb78.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:17 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:02 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:40:51 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-jepshcjavcbuzveh] has joined #lisp 14:42:12 i think that's it happens at the moment symbol-indentation is being redefined, so for a brief moment it becomes undefined 14:45:21 indeed so, ccl does fmakunbound 14:58:02 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.32.62.2] has joined #lisp 14:58:43 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:24 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 15:02:45 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-21-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:02:56 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.129.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:03:07 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:03:07 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-21-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:58 ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has joined #lisp 15:04:36 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-18-91.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:05:41 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:05:46 eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has joined #lisp 15:10:58 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-jepshcjavcbuzveh] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 15:11:25 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 15:13:05 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-hjrgyfqxofwfbnzb] has joined #lisp 15:15:11 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:18:01 SanderM [~quassel@131.174.84.216] has joined #lisp 15:18:19 *maxm* can confirm above bug, I have it randomly in around 30% of cases when restarting ccl 15:20:08 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-160-241-11.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:39 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 15:23:05 reactormonk [~tass@cpe-70-116-15-3.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:37:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:38:59 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:40:31 maxm: thank you for your G+ comment. it motivated me to try CCL's thread safety options for hash tables. i've now reduced the run time for my parallel reader from ~280s to ~150s. 15:41:37 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:42:29 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:43:13 H4ns: you welcome.. g+ seems to be ghostdown for lisp stuff, was surprised to see you post something :-) 15:43:45 maxm: i did not post there, but blogspot asked me whether i wanted to post on g+, so i did. 15:44:43 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:46:16 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 15:47:38 -!- zodiac1111_ [~zodiac111@101.68.106.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:50:20 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:53:45 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56:49 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:49 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:56:49 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 15:58:58 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:59:47 oh man 16:00:13 *pavelpenev* checks twitter, every other tweet is about Yegge and clojure, quits twitter immediately 16:00:37 i found (requires "examples") does not work in the scheme code because one of the interp3.lisp is also requiring interp1.lisp and it's overwriting the defun's of interp3.lisp regardless..... 16:00:45 had to deleter one requires line there 16:01:00 requires? not require? 16:01:33 yes, requires, paip code! 16:02:36 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:41 no wonder, it was using the old definition, and trying to use 3 args instead of 2.... 16:02:48 and so erroring.... 16:02:55 heh 16:03:11 does #lisp have any general tips on reading pre-ANSI books? 16:03:44 like "War and Peace"? 16:03:54 yep, use something like cltl2 containing options either command line or package or so.... 16:04:34 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:55 sbcl comes with sb-cltl2 already.... 16:05:21 and otherwise in code you have to find pecularities...... 16:05:24 sb-cltl2 is not for cltl2 compatibility 16:05:26 yourself.... 16:05:29 oh 16:05:33 what is it then for ? 16:06:14 "sb-cltl2 module provides compiler-let and environment access functionality described in Common Lisp The Language, 2nd Edition which were removed from the language during the ANSI standardization process." 16:06:54 and macroexpand-all too 16:06:58 so it is for cltl2 compat and not ansi! 16:07:15 I'd much rather code in ANSI anyway, even if I have to convert code manually and hunt differences. 16:07:39 it's not for cltl2 compatibility, just some select functions which were removed 16:07:51 aah 16:08:09 ok then 16:12:07 -!- mindCrime__ [~prhodes@24.106.207.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:13:56 hi, how can i change initform of a slot inherited from a class in a different package? When I identified the slot by the same symbol in defclass, SBCL said the symbol is the same but the package is different. No choice but adding package name to the symbol? 16:14:36 X-02: if you don't want to write the package prefix, you could import the symbol, or use the package (if it exports the symbol in question) 16:14:45 package:symbol 16:15:09 Xach: I did and then SBCL warned that. 16:15:51 stassats: if it's the only choice I'd have to follow it. But not very elegant and may cause coding inefficiency. 16:15:51 or just use :default-initargs :initarg initform 16:16:04 it's not the only choice 16:16:11 and what is coding inefficiency? 16:16:13 *pavelpenev* has been digging into CLOS a lot lately, but hasn't thought a lot about how packages fit into the picture. 16:16:36 pavelpenev: orthogonal 16:16:48 -!- sellout [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:17:00 stassats: thats good to know 16:17:13 stassats: if I change the package of the superclass, I have to change the code redefining the slot as well. (inefficiency) 16:17:24 sellout42 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:32 don't change it 16:17:34 then 16:17:48 X-02: i think thats an API problem, depends on what you export 16:18:06 stassats: how can i avoid it using default-initargs? the slot itself is not identified because the package is different. 16:18:42 the slot does have initarg? 16:18:56 clhs defclass 16:18:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defcla.htm 16:18:58 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:19:57 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:20:14 stassats: it does, but the question is how to identify the slot, already defined by a class in a different package. 16:20:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:20:40 you want to change the default initializaion value or what? 16:20:53 just use default-initargs and be done with it 16:20:56 stassats: (defclass class-a (superclass) (slot-a ... 16:20:59 otherwise, learn how packages work 16:21:30 learn how packages work regardless :) 16:22:04 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:22:06 stassats: in this case, to overwrite the initform of slot-a, I have to do this: (defclass class-a (superclass) (package-of-superclass:slot-a :initform new-value .. 16:22:16 pnpuff` [~pnpuff@host111-251-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:22:34 you don't have to do it 16:23:14 perhaps I need to export slot-a itself? 16:23:31 if you want to 16:24:05 but if slot-a has :initarg :slot-a, you don't have to redefine it, just use :default-initargs :slot-a 10 16:24:07 sorry, I've got it. thank you so much 16:24:12 how many times should i repeat this? 16:24:43 stassats: oops, sorry, thank you. 16:25:20 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:25:34 where does the mod invasion in sbcl come from ? 16:25:45 wbooze: what? 16:25:54 i get is not of type (mod blah) mostly hereover.... 16:26:17 it's a type 16:26:26 and even in code which is supposed to handle integers i have to deal with floats..... 16:26:28 bleh 16:27:02 i guess you're not really asking questions, just talking out loud 16:27:53 *pavelpenev* thought thats why IRC had /me :) 16:28:10 the paip code errors out at some point in make-flips where it gets a -1 passed and sbcl is erroring on that -1 telling me it's not of type single/double or rational.... 16:28:29 mindCrime__ [~prhodes@rrcs-70-63-155-45.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:28:38 ravster [~user@24-212-136-201.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:28:41 Hello everyone 16:28:41 i don't see anywhere in code a mention of float .... 16:28:46 and it works over in cmucl 16:29:02 dood! 16:29:29 #lisp is not your rubber duck 16:30:16 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-hjrgyfqxofwfbnzb] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 16:30:37 wbooze: stassats is right, twitter is way better than IRC for this kind of stuff :) 16:33:06 to get back to asking questions, how deprecated are the *-if-not functions? 16:33:32 not deprecated at all 16:33:57 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:34:24 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:42 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:35:14 stassats: so i can ignore the line in the hyperspec that sais: "The functions delete-if-not and remove-if-not are deprecated." ? 16:35:24 pavelpenev: pretty much 16:35:26 not can, should 16:38:58 even If a miracle happens and the possibility of an updated spec becomes reality? 16:39:27 even then 16:41:08 setmeaway [oosool3@119.201.52.168] has joined #lisp 16:41:21 pavelpenev: either sane people will be in charge, or sane people will ignore it 16:41:52 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-ehmxbeccfbprcooz] has joined #lisp 16:42:03 remove-if-not are as likely to go away as prog2 is likely to be 'corrected' to return the first value instead of the second. 16:42:10 and company* 16:42:15 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:41 I assume thats not the case for :test-not 16:42:49 sykopomp: prog2 should return first value 50% of the time 16:43:05 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-46.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:17 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:45:11 Aiwass [~user@188.26.200.87] has joined #lisp 16:45:27 anon119 [~bman@c-67-181-158-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:06 -!- Guest56588 [~michael@208.122.1.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:49:46 Kuloto [~mro@176.20.pool.kuban.skylink.ru] has joined #lisp 16:50:50 wasn't round defined as always to the bigger in case of 1/2? "And ROUND rounds to the nearest integer. If the argument is exactly halfway between two integers, it rounds to the nearest even integer." 16:51:31 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 16:51:45 -!- pnpuff` [~pnpuff@host111-251-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 16:52:26 reactormonk: i don't understand the question, you have the definition of round, what's wrong with it? 16:52:56 reactormonk: there are different rounding methods 16:53:20 I don't remember details, but it gets complex once you have rounding upon rounding 16:53:43 -!- Aiwass [~user@188.26.200.87] has left #lisp 16:53:47 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:54:42 stassats: I've never seen any other method... 16:55:19 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rounding#Tie-breaking 16:55:37 reactormonk: now you know better. 16:56:43 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has joined #lisp 16:56:56 Guest73417 [~michael@208.122.1.210] has joined #lisp 16:58:40 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-29-37.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:48 *pavelpenev* just noticed emacs greys out code preceded with #-sbcl 17:01:10 not on ccl! 17:01:27 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.109.185] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 17:02:03 Sorella_ [~quildreen@189-13-91-5.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 17:03:59 and I just tried it in ecl, it doesn't grey it out there either... must be a bug in sbcl 17:04:25 do they grey out #+sbcl? 17:04:31 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-ehmxbeccfbprcooz] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 17:04:51 joekarma: sorry, you didn't get the joke 17:05:16 stassats:I was trying to join in on the joke actually but my logic was wrong 17:05:30 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:06:20 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:37 maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 17:07:17 it's always the little things that impress(and occasionally annoy :) me with lisp and its tools 17:09:17 -!- Kuloto [~mro@176.20.pool.kuban.skylink.ru] has left #lisp 17:09:37 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:41 Kuloto [~mro@176.20.pool.kuban.skylink.ru] has joined #lisp 17:12:00 weeeheeee, solved the knot! 17:12:16 may they play hang-man with you! 17:12:20 lol 17:12:39 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-18-91.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 17:13:43 -!- Kuloto [~mro@176.20.pool.kuban.skylink.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 17:13:57 Kuloto [~mro@176.20.pool.kuban.skylink.ru] has joined #lisp 17:14:46 dbushenko [~dim@93.125.25.74] has joined #lisp 17:14:52 -!- dbushenko [~dim@93.125.25.74] has left #lisp 17:16:26 [6502] [5e24f94f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.249.79] has joined #lisp 17:16:31 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:17:07 -!- blbef [~chatzilla@089144206153.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:17:21 <[6502]> hello... why does &rest want a parameter name? Wouldn't be neater to just use &rest as the rest-capturing parameter? 17:17:36 blbef [~chatzilla@089144206230.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:48 no 17:18:27 <[6502]> oh... ok "no" 17:18:39 <[6502]> i wonder how I didn't see thay myself 17:18:45 <[6502]> that 17:18:52 [6502]: neater in the simple case, maybe, but such simplifications lead to scheme-ism, a disease that leads to brain death 17:19:17 [6502]: it's obvious when you think about it 17:20:30 <[6502]> pavelpenev: scheme is not simpler than CL... it's actually more convoluted IMO; for example all that call/cc stuff or using letrec for looping... 17:20:47 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.26.224] has joined #lisp 17:20:58 -!- mindCrime__ [~prhodes@rrcs-70-63-155-45.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:21:32 <[6502]> stassats: actually "..." would even be a nicer name than "&rest" 17:21:38 [6502]: thats what I mean, obvious simplifications lead to unforeseen complications if your design isn't holistic in its approach to simplicity 17:21:42 phao [phao@177.115.142.6] has joined #lisp 17:21:55 <[6502]> stassats: (defun polyline (x1 y1 x2 y2 ...) ....) 17:22:09 first of all, &rest is a lousy name, second show me (defun foo (&rest rest) (lambda (&rest args) (append rest ags))) 17:22:17 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:22:43 <[6502]> stassats: ahhh... ok, i get it :-) 17:23:01 <[6502]> stassats: that would require an intermediate let 17:23:49 &aux to the rescue 17:24:13 <[6502]> hehehe 17:24:19 *[6502]* never used &aux 17:24:27 <[6502]> looks like something from the middle ages... 17:24:40 (defun foo (&rest &aux (a rest)) (lambda (&rest) (append a rest))) 17:25:06 <[6502]> sykopomp: you mean (append a &rest) 17:25:20 oh, is that how it is? 17:25:28 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.190] has joined #lisp 17:25:59 <[6502]> sykopomp: No idea if someone did that? i was thinking to just use &rest instead of &rest (the name of the parameter would be &rest) 17:26:26 [6502]: good for you. Write a lambda list replacement and call it lambda-list* 17:26:48 [6502]: what's the point? It's like having the parameters of the function be arg1, arg2, etc. 17:26:54 Not very descriptive 17:27:09 <[6502]> jathd: that's another good point 17:27:27 <[6502]> in the end it sounds like a bad idea 17:28:26 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129063152.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:29:25 wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:29 <[6502]> &rest looks nice for abstract talking about functions, not for a specific function... 17:30:15 don't have &rest in the lambda-list at all (lambda () &rest) 17:30:22 why not go all the way! 17:30:35 <[6502]> stassats: that would work fine... 17:30:44 -!- X-02 [~kohei@pon036-189.kcn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: IRCStep] 17:31:03 when will we see 6502-lisp with all those brilliant ideas? 17:31:30 <[6502]> except of course that CL says that the list received on &rest is not a fresh list for use of the function 17:31:30 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:31:34 [6502]: what if I want to name it options instead of rest? perfectly good way to document my code, I'm passing in additional options, instead of the rest of the arguments. 17:32:29 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32:30 joekarma [~joekarma@70.28.245.9] has joined #lisp 17:32:49 <[6502]> pavelpenev: an options dictionary argument is something that would better fit keyword arguments, especially for my toy that has to interact with javascript. An options object is how keyword aruguments are implemented in javascript. 17:32:55 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has joined #lisp 17:32:58 [6502]: javascript has an arguments[] array for that sort of stuff, fwiw 17:33:02 [6502]: cl doesn't say that 17:33:39 <[6502]> stassats: I remember reading that the &rest argument is not something that you can consider a fresh list... but I may be wrong 17:34:01 -!- bitonic [~user@host53-122-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:05 "The value of a rest parameter is permitted, but not required, to share structure with the last argument to apply." 17:34:11 so, it can be fresh 17:34:51 <[6502]> stassats: but it can be shared 17:34:52 but i don't see how freshness of rest is relevant here 17:35:14 you're implementing your own lisp, you can go bonkers 17:35:16 <[6502]> stassats: capturing a non-fresh list is going to be a source of hard to track bugs, IMO 17:35:19 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 17:35:29 what? 17:35:40 only if you're doing naughty things to it 17:35:53 i don't understand what you're talking about 17:36:07 [6502]: you don't have a dictionary, but you can get a plist: 17:36:08 (lambda (&rest plist &key &allow-other-keys) ...) 17:36:09 <[6502]> sykopomp: like just storing it away and looking at them later to see it has changed to much of your surprise? 17:36:37 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70.28.245.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:36:49 -!- Vivitron` [~Vivitron`@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:36:54 i don't see how "capturing a non-fresh list" is related to the &rest discussion 17:37:34 [6502]: if you modify a rest parameter, copy it 17:38:12 <[6502]> pavelpenev: even if you don't modify it you need to copy it, because it may be someone else will reuse those cons cells... 17:38:31 joekarma [~joekarma@70.28.245.86] has joined #lisp 17:38:39 <[6502]> pavelpenev: unless I didn't understand CLHS on that 17:39:05 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70.28.245.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:17 [6502]: that's incorrect. 17:39:26 joekarma [~joekarma@70.28.245.86] has joined #lisp 17:39:29 [6502]: nobody should change the list 17:39:31 there's a lot of shared structures being passed around, i don't see why &rest is so special 17:39:51 <[6502]> stassats: the rest discussion is over for me. using just &rest is a bad idea for readability because it seems to work only when talking in general. Just writing a single real function that "rest" probably would deserve a better name 17:39:54 [6502]: but the implementation is allowed to pass it around under the assumption it's not changed. 17:40:19 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:40:25 [6502]: wat? (intentional typo) 17:40:39 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 17:40:42 <[6502]> ehu: the implementation is allowed to reuse it for next call IIUC 17:41:48 <[6502]> stassats: (defun draw-polyline (&rest points) ...) 17:41:55 (eq (apply (lambda (&rest list) list) list) list) can be T, remember it, expect it, embrace it 17:43:33 <[6502]> stassats: I simply saw that in your example there was a possible risk of hard to find bugs. I've been bitten in the past for a similar thing... code using quasiquoting as a list generator (it's not... quasiquoting result is not guaranteed to be fresh) 17:44:22 if you don't modify things left and right, you won't get any bugs 17:44:42 <[6502]> stassats: for quasiquoting yes, for &rest no 17:44:52 it's no different 17:45:36 <[6502]> stassats: it is... while the implementation will not change the result of a quasiquoting evaluation, the implementation MAY alter the list that was passed to a function as &rest parameter 17:45:53 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 17:45:56 that's not true 17:46:01 you are confused 17:46:44 <[6502]> ahhhhhhhhh 17:46:50 <[6502]> wait... may be i got it 17:46:59 <[6502]> it's only for APPLY that sharing is allowed? 17:47:17 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 17:47:33 -!- Kuloto [~mro@176.20.pool.kuban.skylink.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:47:34 [6502]: after reading http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm#apply i fail to see the problem, is rest different from any list that gets passed to your function? 17:47:41 -!- phao [phao@177.115.142.6] has left #lisp 17:49:06 From CLHS §3.4.1.3: "The value of a rest parameter is permitted, but not required, to share structure with the last argument to apply." 17:49:10 And that's it. 17:49:26 [6502]: (foo x) maybe compiled as (apply #'foo '(x)) 17:50:23 <[6502]> you mean (apply #'foo `(,x)) ? 17:50:48 no 17:51:07 stassats: Can it? Where did you see that? 17:51:09 <[6502]> you mean that (foo x) may be compiled to passing always the symbol X instead?? 17:51:31 oh god, just disregard the quote 17:52:11 <[6502]> so (list x), or `(,x) 17:52:49 (x) 17:52:57 <[6502]> ah... x is a function? 17:53:01 no 17:53:06 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:53:25 stassats: that doesn't really make sense; I think you did mean (list x) or `(,x) 17:53:33 i did not 17:53:57 Are you saying (+ 3) could be the same as (apply #'+ (3))? 17:54:19 i'm saying (foo x) maybe compiled as (apply #'foo (x)) 17:54:27 w t f! 17:54:33 yeah, that can't work 17:54:34 (cdr '(foo x)) => (X) 17:54:37 i think i get it, '(x) is (quote x) (x) is (list x) 17:54:47 pavelpenev: no 17:54:48 um (quote (list x)) 17:55:15 it will be compiled into it, it doesn't need to be evaluated 17:55:44 what does "compile into" mean? 17:56:32 equivalent binary representation, I should think 17:57:07 i just meant that it could easily reuse code s-exps 17:57:32 stassats: you mean literal data? 17:57:51 <[6502]> anyway given that &rest only has this special treatment by apply I do understand that the situation is the same as with quasiquoting... if you don't mutate anything things will go well 17:58:36 <[6502]> i thought that the implementation was free to reuse cons cells for &rest parameters even for regular calls 17:59:01 -!- reactormonk [~tass@cpe-70-116-15-3.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:59:06 <[6502]> but that doesn't really make sense (e.g. for variadic recursive functions) 17:59:14 [6502]: Well, I'm not sure it's clear that it can't. 17:59:32 <[6502]> jathd: it talks explicitly of apply 17:59:56 <[6502]> jathd: so it's the user program that is building the list 17:59:58 Yeah but CLHS page on funcall says (in "Notes") that (funcall f x ...) == (apply f (list x ...)) 18:00:10 (foo . #1=(1 2 3)) could easily become (apply #'foo '#1#) 18:00:14 And I don't know if (f x ...) == (funcall #'f x ...) 18:00:35 stassats: yes, NOW I get it. 18:00:53 stassats: well that's what I'm not sure about 18:01:02 you say it can but how do you knowN 18:01:19 because it doesn't contradict the evaluation model 18:01:24 <[6502]> stassats: with a number it would have worked before too ... (foo 42) (apply #'foo '(42)) 18:01:49 -!- ludston [~user@CPE-58-166-72-98.lnse5.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:02:24 <[6502]> jathd: hmmm... 18:02:33 the point is, that it could be shared without actually having APPLY in the code 18:02:34 stassats: you're right, I don't see that it does... 18:06:31 Oh wait, the "Notes" sections are not considered part of the standard 18:07:50 -!- vaus [~vaus@180.Red-83-61-39.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: vaus] 18:07:54 dude, i don't get it...i moved around code in interp3.lisp to not load interp1.lisp and examples.lisp loads them in order so 1 first then 3, but i get the same error after 3 is loaded when i use (do-examples :all) when i load them one by one in the repl and try out the examples it all works.... 18:09:10 when i try the call/cc examples with interp1.lisp code ofc it fails, but my repl is failing even after interp3.lisp is loaded via the examples.lisp thing.... 18:09:13 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:11:19 Guthur [~user@host86-160-241-11.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:59 ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:48 Eulo [~Eulo@78-72-37-188-no21.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:18:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.55.89] has joined #lisp 18:18:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.55.89] has quit [Changing host] 18:18:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:19:03 pavelpenev: why did you to to tweeter? I already mentionned yeggue and clojure here yesterday! 18:20:05 pjb: I just wanted mindless distraction while my coffee was brewing 18:22:14 pavelpenev: you could fetch an old version of clisp or gcl. There were CLtL2 once. 18:24:17 paul0 [~paul0@201.22.84.136.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 18:25:45 Kron [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has joined #lisp 18:28:42 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:29:17 -!- wg1024 [~Adium@dslb-084-058-053-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:31:00 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:31:19 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70.28.245.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:32:33 But (foo . #1=(1 (+ 1 1) 3)) could NOT become (apply #'foo '#1#). 18:33:10 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 18:35:51 hey anyone can recommend a nice lisp book/tutorial/etc? i'm know almost nothing about lisp except the general concept but am an experienced programmer otherwise, so something nice to read but not too noob-oriented 18:36:34 lirt [~lirt@188.16.138.30] has joined #lisp 18:36:43 qptain_Nemo: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ is what you need 18:36:46 minion: tell qptain_Nemo about pcl 18:36:47 qptain_Nemo: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 18:36:56 alright, thanks, guys :) 18:38:04 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-160-241-11.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:38:31 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:38:52 qptain_Nemo: you might also benefit from the cliki the common lisp wiki: http://www.cliki.net 18:39:10 good idea, thanks 18:39:54 dacoda [~user@178-24-209-183-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:40:30 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-hfpvmdqwupxzqqqc] has joined #lisp 18:41:04 -!- dacoda [~user@178-24-209-183-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:45:54 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:51:06 -!- eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 18:53:38 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:53:43 -!- Kron [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:54:07 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has joined #lisp 18:55:21 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 18:55:31 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:41 joekarma [~joekarma@184.151.222.24] has joined #lisp 18:57:13 dood! lisp feels scrips, and i'm not amused! 18:57:13 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has quit [Client Quit] 18:57:23 crisp! 18:57:25 bleh 18:57:28 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has joined #lisp 18:57:47 brittle! 18:57:51 fragile! 18:58:09 Guthur [~user@host86-160-241-11.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:38 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:01 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has joined #lisp 18:59:20 waaaahahaha 18:59:28 wbooze: maybe you want static typing? 18:59:48 called with 3 args but want at most 2 or called with 2 args but wants at least 3... 19:00:13 depending on the order if i load first interp1.lisp or interp3.lisp.... 19:00:22 but erroring anyway in batch mode! 19:00:30 which i don't get why ! 19:00:53 cause loading them one-by-one and doing the corresp. chapter examles on the repl is fine..... 19:01:26 sounds like example code, not something I would expect production quality robustness from 19:01:55 obviously the func in question was further developed in interp3 19:02:12 but how can that be, i'm loading that file and it should overwrite the old definition anyway! 19:02:48 I'm not familiar with whatever it is you are using 19:03:35 you don't listen Guthur, i said if i'm loading from the repl interp1.lisp and then doing the interp1 lessons all is fine and the same holds for interp3.lisp that way, but not when they are loaded in order from the examples.lisp file.... 19:03:36 wbooze: I've suffered for confusing how lisp _feels_ like, and how it actually is, be careful 19:04:12 and i don't find anything wrong there cause they are called in order and the examples are following each respectively.... 19:04:19 wbooze: true I wasn't listening too closely because you were ranting and raving like a crazy man 19:04:30 so why would it fail in batch mode ? 19:05:06 wbooze: the sources of a book are not generally designed to be loaded all at once, or in a random order. 19:05:06 yes, it makes me crazy! can't get paip code run the examples it defines all thru, at some points it always get's me into debugger.... 19:05:25 some points i could sove but others are not so obvious.... 19:05:28 wbooze: they're designed to be followed step by step with you typing the code at the REPL. 19:06:10 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 19:06:20 You cannot load them blindly, without reading the book! 19:06:31 yep yep, and i think i'll just switch to that mode, by anyway, it works up until some point....to the scheme section..... 19:06:52 wbooze: there is no such thing as "batch mode" in cl 19:07:24 wbooze: typing code manually is essential to learning sometimes, it slows you down 19:07:47 i'm not loading them blindly, they are loaded in order ...from the examples.lisp file from code here 19:07:55 <[6502]> jathd: if (funcall foo ... ) is equivalent to (apply #'foo (list ...)) then there's no sharing possible because list is used. If there's sharing is because of apply 19:07:55 http://norvig.com/paip/README.html 19:08:06 [6502]: ir is not. 19:08:09 it is not. 19:08:12 the zip file contents... 19:08:24 (funcall foo ) = (apply foo (list )) 19:09:01 <[6502]> pjb: yeah... sorry 19:09:43 <[6502]> pjb: the point of discussion was if it's safe to store away the value of a &rest parameter (given that may be it's not a fresh list) 19:10:25 No, it is not. IIRC, you cannot get it outside of the dynamic extent. 19:10:38 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:10:43 I have a simple script with some (format t ) output wherein the format string begins with "~&~&". The script does not print the initial newlines. How can I fix that? 19:11:04 (the rest is printed correctly) 19:11:27 antoszka: ~& is fresh-line. use ~% instead 19:11:31 antoszka: ~& prints a newline only if it cannot determines that there is already one. 19:11:32 <[6502]> pjb: clhs only talks about the sharing with last parameter of an APPLY, so it is safe if the program is not mutating it 19:11:36 A, right. Thx. 19:11:36 ~&~& = ~&. 19:11:39 Yep. 19:11:50 At the start of the program it's assumed there'sa newline, so the first ~& is NOP. 19:12:09 ofc 19:17:44 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 19:18:29 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 19:18:42 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:02 mindCrime [~prhodes@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:22:21 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:16 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 19:29:05 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.190] has joined #lisp 19:32:25 -!- Kron_ is now known as Kron 19:32:48 agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:15 Another thing that crept up, when I run sbcl --script with the RANDOM function I always get the same result, how can I get it more pseudo-random? 19:34:45 you need to initalize your random state 19:34:50 (setf *random-state* (make-random-state t)), isn't it? 19:34:57 thx 19:35:34 I suppose I can just pass sb-kernel::state (make-random-state t) directly? 19:36:00 sb-kernel::state? 19:36:07 ugh, no 19:36:16 that's what slime hints me at 19:36:27 but perhaps I'm misreading the hint. 19:36:46 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:37:03 to random? 19:37:20 uhm 19:37:41 it's not the greatest idea re-initializing random-state each time you call random 19:38:06 Good point. 19:38:28 just do what Bike showed 19:38:56 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has joined #lisp 19:39:05 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:50 Sorella__ [~quildreen@189-13-91-5.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 19:40:01 -!- Kron [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:42:14 -!- agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:43:38 agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:06 -!- Sorella_ [~quildreen@189-13-91-5.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:44:34 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@184.151.222.24] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 19:44:58 Yep. Bike, Thx. 19:47:41 -!- jathd [~user@mon69-5-88-169-253-165.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:55 Kuloto [~mro@176.20.pool.kuban.skylink.ru] has joined #lisp 19:53:01 -!- Kuloto [~mro@176.20.pool.kuban.skylink.ru] has left #lisp 19:55:32 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:55:55 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has joined #lisp 19:58:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-169.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:00 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:02:12 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-220-48.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 20:07:06 joekarma [~joekarma@184.151.222.179] has joined #lisp 20:07:10 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:08:07 dnolen [~user@pool-71-183-183-222.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:39 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has joined #lisp 20:09:00 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 20:10:16 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:21 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:13:36 -!- anon119 [~bman@c-67-181-158-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:14:09 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has joined #lisp 20:18:06 anon119 [~bman@c-67-181-158-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:39 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 20:19:36 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:20:25 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-126-72.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:21:54 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:28:34 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has joined #lisp 20:28:51 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@184.151.222.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:30:30 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 20:31:58 Kron [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has joined #lisp 20:32:55 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:33:28 -!- Kron [~Kron@59.92.193.233] has quit [Client Quit] 20:35:36 joekarma [~joekarma@184.151.222.121] has joined #lisp 20:37:18 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 20:42:18 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:43:41 disciple [~krishna@117.207.109.185] has joined #lisp 20:45:16 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.166.35] has joined #lisp 20:52:40 -!- theron [~theron@dslb-084-060-180-027.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:55:24 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:57:04 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 20:57:21 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-227-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:53 Sorella_ [~quildreen@201-58-221-107.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 20:59:21 -!- Sorella__ [~quildreen@189-13-91-5.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:02 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:38 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 21:06:33 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-25-199-80.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:18 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:07:59 -!- kanru` [~kanru@111-249-156-70.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:08:37 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-196-58.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:41 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:09:28 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.166.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:22 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:14:59 -!- joekarma is now known as notjoekarma 21:15:11 -!- notjoekarma is now known as joekarma 21:16:30 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:17:13 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:18:35 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 21:31:31 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-61-54.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:35:11 add^_^ [~add^_@m90-141-61-54.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:35:24 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 21:44:04 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:47:01 uh oh 21:48:05 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:48:08 leaking semicolas! ? 21:50:51 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-198.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:25 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:54 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:54:40 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 21:57:42 -!- [6502] [5e24f94f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.249.79] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:59:10 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:15 punee_ [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 22:01:39 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@184.151.222.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:02:14 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:02:54 -!- add^_^ [~add^_@m90-141-61-54.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_^] 22:04:19 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:04:37 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:07:05 jathd [~user@mon69-5-88-169-253-165.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:13 -!- jathd [~user@mon69-5-88-169-253-165.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 22:10:07 guh 22:10:34 now when i try to compile a second time the examples for chapter 21 i get into a never ending loop it seems..... 22:17:00 heh reproducible....even 22:17:17 waaahah 22:17:30 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.26.224] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:48 hmm, curiously the errors for chapter 22 are gone! 22:17:57 i don't get it! 22:18:44 that's what i hate!, can't ever tell what/why.... 22:19:46 i only put some copy-list after sort in some forms.... 22:20:43 copy-list must be used BEFORE sort! 22:21:09 yes, i meant structurally like (sort (copy-list (blah.... 22:21:27 so it is used before.... 22:23:15 ok so there are other problems in code before it seems, and i get some leakage from them up until chapter 22 where it all spills over.... 22:23:34 the thing with chapter 21 run twice for example is suspicious.... 22:23:50 i had too much wbooze for today 22:23:52 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has left #lisp 22:25:09 perhaps stassats was playing the wbooze drinking game where he took a shot every time wbooze typed "..." :) 22:25:53 weheh 22:28:22 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:28:39 *pavelpenev* needs his ass kicked for contemplating writing a blogging engine. 22:28:52 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:42 -!- optikalmouse [~user@gw.trapeze.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:33:57 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176324022.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:34:03 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:36:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:37:27 -!- SanderM [~quassel@131.174.84.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:23 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:09 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:45:52 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 22:46:51 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:15 something better than movable type would be warmly welcomed. 22:52:05 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:52:35 Fade: how about octopress ? 22:57:45 well, octopress is kind of a minor player in the blog market, no? 22:58:11 Fade: it's one of the static page generators 22:58:13 octopress is cool but it doesn't make me feel powerful enough 22:58:18 so it's kinda hard to decide ;) 22:58:33 I'm missing "generate server-independent mirror" option, dammit 22:58:59 joekarma: a small amount of LSD will fix that 22:59:16 fe[nl]ix: hehe 22:59:31 fe[nl]ix: octo-cthulu? 22:59:36 nah 23:00:29 I like having the dynamically generated content gun cocked at all times 23:01:16 that being said, the types of things I do aren't in danger of being slashdotted / reddited anytime soon 23:01:24 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: I've got a feeling there's a fish in the floor; I'd better squish it or he'll swim out the door; Sometimes they take me for a walk in the sun; I see my fish and I have to run] 23:01:49 joekarma: you might never know :) 23:01:51 So, will ABCL run on Zing? 23:01:57 pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:02:30 fe[nl]ix: even with static content ;) 23:02:58 -!- paul0 [~paul0@201.22.84.136.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 23:03:12 got to admit though, with how far javascript has come these days it's tempting to do all the heavy lifting on the client side 23:06:07 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:06:41 joekarma: if only it was really viable... 23:07:00 p_l|ssh-broke: it's viable-ish 23:07:02 it's a bit like writing an assembly program for 6502 and trying to make it run everywhere 23:07:12 (well, on every 8bit home pc) 23:07:59 p_l|ssh-broke: no doubt it's challenging to get things working cross browser 23:08:09 -!- dan [~dan@gateway/tor-sasl/dan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:37 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:08:49 joekarma: it's somewhat doable when you're targeting only desktops and don't care about old browsers (so nothing targeting corporate fossils) 23:08:54 pkhuong: exactly 23:09:09 -!- drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:09:19 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:09:30 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:09:32 joekarma: and even then, you still often need some server-side processing... last time we tried to do exactly so with Lisp, but job fell through :/ 23:09:44 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zijmtoijjigcrlfn] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:09:49 -!- gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:10:09 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:10:11 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ejmcgsoxafjguhsw] has joined #lisp 23:11:28 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 23:12:17 gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:43 p_l|ssh-broke: very true, it's hard to avoid server side processing... some people *are* trying to do it though... wish I could remember the name of the site that advocates this (for privacy, ownership of data, yada yada). Not a paradigm I subscribe to, but it's a good exercise in advancing the state of the art 23:12:57 *pavelpenev* was thinking about blog engines, rss and twitter and then somehow reinvented the concept of usenet 23:14:15 dan [~dan@gateway/tor-sasl/dan] has joined #lisp 23:14:31 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 23:14:49 p_l|ssh-broke: http://unhosted.org/ is where I saw it 23:15:01 drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has joined #lisp 23:15:41 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 23:16:41 joekarma: yes, there's that... but I think browser is bad place to do so 23:17:01 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 23:22:13 -!- pskosinski [~pk@czu186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: I've got a feeling there's a fish in the floor; I'd better squish it or he'll swim out the door; Sometimes they take me for a walk in the sun; I see my fish and I have to run] 23:24:46 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:25 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-hfpvmdqwupxzqqqc] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 23:27:26 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.109.185] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 23:29:45 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:44 -!- punee_ [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee_] 23:32:52 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-227-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:35:00 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:50 -!- ipmonger [~ipmonger@c-68-63-82-226.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ipmonger] 23:37:14 -!- callen [~callen@unaffiliated/callen] has left #lisp 23:39:06 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:58 -!- lirt [~lirt@188.16.138.30] has quit [Quit: lirt] 23:45:39 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:15 -!- agumonkey [~agu@191.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:51:26 S11001001 [~sirian@c-98-216-252-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:34 -!- S11001001 [~sirian@c-98-216-252-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:51:34 S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has joined #lisp 23:54:47 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:55:01 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:57:56 -!- dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:58:41 dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #lisp